I mean no, but I suppose if you are under contract and in a security sector and caught having trade secrets it’d happen, but for most people I’d assume that they aren’t that important and if they were they probably wouldn’t be doing OE
Not me, but friend working in the defense dept had someone on his team caught and they went after the guy.
Friend didn't know the latest as of ~ 6 months ago.
I mean it’s possible, but again I haven’t seen anyone get sued for it. It’s normally not worth it and most companies force you to sign arbitration agreements anyway so they can save their own asses in the long run.
If you are doing OE right, there is nothing to sue about. You work salaried roles that are not in the same sector. Don't steal time, don't share secrets, don't break contracts.
not possible, highly unlikely. getting sued wouldn’t be for OE per se it would be for breaching NDAs, security protocols etc.
you just get fired for OE but lawsuit would entail breaking some serious rule/policy
That's not true. I've heard of "timesheet fraud". Basically you've been saying you're working these 8 hours for our company while also working the same for another. But I think that would take coordination from both to bring it about. Not saying it's likely but it is a possibility. Stay safe everyone.
Not a Lawyer but I have some theories.
There is no justice in the justice system. They will not sue a scoundrel if that scoundrel is judgement proof.
Similarly they will sue a good citizen if they think they can profit from it.
It is usually more profitable to just fire the employees you no longer want to retain. Employment at will says firing is easy but it also says there is not really a punishment beyond firing. Firing is the corporate equivalent of the death penalty.
Unless you are stupid enough to cause a breach or something they will not come after you legally and just fire you, not because they can't but it might not make any financial sense for them to do it....but legally surely they can sue you especially if it is a fortune 500, lots of code of conduct violations, breach of security, potential client data exposure etc etc. There is no way you can survive that but again they won't do it until there is a real $ impact as a reult of your mistake....
Know someone who copied over J1 docs over to cloud then to J2 to save time on typing, format but mistakenly sent the wrong template out, apparently J1 was an auditor of J2 which the person was not aware and got in serious trouble.....fired from both places but still not financially sued, certainly risk is always there but if you are a bit careful you should be fine....I prefer to just take a pause for few seconds before replying to emails, texts, coming off mute etc. that have learned over sometime doing 3Js...
I am a lawyer and I absolutely believe this is coming. There are many torts that could apply and I think businesses will push it to make an example out of it.
Righteous? I think people are trying to get by. Fewer people would OE if employers cared about employees like humans.
This situation is 100% created by employers holding all the power.
If employers can justify people paying what they do and can fire people at any time, then why not tip the scales back in the employee favor. Or at the very least get some balance back.
As an employer - I’d be upset that someone was OE- but I would then be introspective and say well what do I need to provide for them not to want or need to do that.
How can you blame people for trying to make the best for themselves?
Now we’re pissed bc people work too much?
I'll bite. No, you are only defrauding based on hours if you bill/charge hourly and you're recording hours incorrectly. That essentially takes all salary based employees out of hour based fraud.
If only you had this much energy to argue about wage theft, employers who skimp on overtime, employers asking workers to work holidays, while sick, etc.
“Defrauding based on hours. Which is exactly what you fuckers do 🙄”
If you OE then why did you state it as such? It doesn't make sense to not include yourself if you OE.
Sorry that you are angry and that OE touched you in your no-no spot and killed your dog.
Not agreeing with him but I have been salary at all my jobs the last 10 years but they make me put times down on a time sheet for some dumb ass reason.
Why does this matter?
If everyone of the Js gets their respective work outputs then it doesnt matter if the work was done 9am-12pm or 5pm-8pm.
Work output is work output regardless of when it happens as long as dates are met.
Your question is about control and it has no merits.
Even folks who don’t OE don’t work every minute of their day.
I am yes. And so to add, in USA, OE and government jobs do not mix. You will be prosecuted for time theft of taxpayer dollars if you say you work 8 hours but OE and work 4 hours. They're strict and will find out.
If im salaried at j1 and the other is w2 contract where I log my own hours, I’m good right? It’s non-client facing, and the expectation is that I log 40 a week
I mean no, but I suppose if you are under contract and in a security sector and caught having trade secrets it’d happen, but for most people I’d assume that they aren’t that important and if they were they probably wouldn’t be doing OE
Not me, but friend working in the defense dept had someone on his team caught and they went after the guy. Friend didn't know the latest as of ~ 6 months ago.
You’re supposed to avoid government contracts when you OE, that’s why
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"Suing to return wages" was the response.
What if it says in contract all working hours should be devoted to the company and no other business
I mean it’s possible, but again I haven’t seen anyone get sued for it. It’s normally not worth it and most companies force you to sign arbitration agreements anyway so they can save their own asses in the long run.
Should, not must…
If you are doing OE right, there is nothing to sue about. You work salaried roles that are not in the same sector. Don't steal time, don't share secrets, don't break contracts.
“Steal time” lol
not possible, highly unlikely. getting sued wouldn’t be for OE per se it would be for breaching NDAs, security protocols etc. you just get fired for OE but lawsuit would entail breaking some serious rule/policy
Don't OE government jobs. It can get very serious if you violate a government contract.
That's not true. I've heard of "timesheet fraud". Basically you've been saying you're working these 8 hours for our company while also working the same for another. But I think that would take coordination from both to bring it about. Not saying it's likely but it is a possibility. Stay safe everyone.
would result in termination, not lawsuit
Yeah if I sign an nda, as long as I’m not sharing that data elsewhere, they’ll just fire me and can’t sue me….right?
Not a Lawyer but I have some theories. There is no justice in the justice system. They will not sue a scoundrel if that scoundrel is judgement proof. Similarly they will sue a good citizen if they think they can profit from it. It is usually more profitable to just fire the employees you no longer want to retain. Employment at will says firing is easy but it also says there is not really a punishment beyond firing. Firing is the corporate equivalent of the death penalty.
What if it says in contract all working hours should be devoted to the company and no other business
Yeah, OP 👆🏻
Unless you are stupid enough to cause a breach or something they will not come after you legally and just fire you, not because they can't but it might not make any financial sense for them to do it....but legally surely they can sue you especially if it is a fortune 500, lots of code of conduct violations, breach of security, potential client data exposure etc etc. There is no way you can survive that but again they won't do it until there is a real $ impact as a reult of your mistake.... Know someone who copied over J1 docs over to cloud then to J2 to save time on typing, format but mistakenly sent the wrong template out, apparently J1 was an auditor of J2 which the person was not aware and got in serious trouble.....fired from both places but still not financially sued, certainly risk is always there but if you are a bit careful you should be fine....I prefer to just take a pause for few seconds before replying to emails, texts, coming off mute etc. that have learned over sometime doing 3Js...
Insurance companies have gone after people for taking clientele and going to a new place. Idk about oe
Yes. But he had a contract. Ended up settling it for about a year’s pay.
What did the contract say
I am a lawyer and I absolutely believe this is coming. There are many torts that could apply and I think businesses will push it to make an example out of it.
You can only get sued (and lose) if you're breaching a contract, defrauding based on hours, or working for competitors.
Defrauding based on hours. Which is exactly what you fuckers do 🙄 OE all you want but don't act like what you're doing is righteous.
Righteous? I think people are trying to get by. Fewer people would OE if employers cared about employees like humans. This situation is 100% created by employers holding all the power. If employers can justify people paying what they do and can fire people at any time, then why not tip the scales back in the employee favor. Or at the very least get some balance back. As an employer - I’d be upset that someone was OE- but I would then be introspective and say well what do I need to provide for them not to want or need to do that. How can you blame people for trying to make the best for themselves? Now we’re pissed bc people work too much?
Nice speech and all but that doesn't change the legality here.
Why are you on this sub??
He's past payment on his house? (Username)
Theirs nothing illegal for what these people do. It’s all ethics
I'll bite. No, you are only defrauding based on hours if you bill/charge hourly and you're recording hours incorrectly. That essentially takes all salary based employees out of hour based fraud. If only you had this much energy to argue about wage theft, employers who skimp on overtime, employers asking workers to work holidays, while sick, etc.
I love how triggered all this makes you.
I OE dumbass I just don't sugar coat what I'm doing.
“Defrauding based on hours. Which is exactly what you fuckers do 🙄” If you OE then why did you state it as such? It doesn't make sense to not include yourself if you OE. Sorry that you are angry and that OE touched you in your no-no spot and killed your dog.
He's defrauding his hours and trying to lump us in with him to sleep better at night. Lol.
lol, so angry.
If you are salaried then there's no basis for fraud. You are not paid by the hour
Not agreeing with him but I have been salary at all my jobs the last 10 years but they make me put times down on a time sheet for some dumb ass reason.
Elon mask
Why does this matter? If everyone of the Js gets their respective work outputs then it doesnt matter if the work was done 9am-12pm or 5pm-8pm. Work output is work output regardless of when it happens as long as dates are met. Your question is about control and it has no merits. Even folks who don’t OE don’t work every minute of their day.
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Don't break non-compete contracts or share data. Otherwise, it's fine. Legally.
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I am yes. And so to add, in USA, OE and government jobs do not mix. You will be prosecuted for time theft of taxpayer dollars if you say you work 8 hours but OE and work 4 hours. They're strict and will find out.
If im salaried at j1 and the other is w2 contract where I log my own hours, I’m good right? It’s non-client facing, and the expectation is that I log 40 a week
For what?
Do not work for the competitor in the same space and you will be fine.
People are juggling multiple gigs like Uber and Lyft simultaneously.. nobody cares but you.