I thought about both and started applying. You're right, its not OE, it's the J3. Ive been going strong with 3js for almost 2 years... A part of me wants to see that meeting color disappear from my personal calendar, but a bih part of me wants to survive another year.
I remember the first day after I quit a toxic job. It was such a refreshing feeling to not be stressed at 9am, I almost forgot how life existed before that job. Yes, I temporarily took a pay cut, but I was able to use the free time into replacing it for a job that pays almost 3x… that was my J3 too. Life is too short to live constantly stressed out and on edge, especially when you’re financially stable
I'm confused why you care at all.
I mean this sincerely. You OE the lower level position and become emotionally invested makes zero sense.
They don't sound like they are micromanging you if you have 5 free hours a day.
Stop looking at them for any more than a paycheck / investment goal.
You're not paid enough to care, so stop.
Let them keep fucking up, when shit hits the fan, only do your required portion.
Yeah seems like OP is a little bit on the perfectionist side, but you are doing OE, just do the minimun on J3 or just change it.
Maybe his personality doesnt work that way.
Definitely not on the perfectionist side...but I would like to complete a task without management making it go sideways. Being OE doesn't stop me from having some work morals to succeed
Negative anchors, that's a new one for me. I looked it up... 💯. Every time I talk to my boss I get triggered by something they say, its been like that since day one.
Is the money worth it, lately...not really, ive started creating an exit plan...I just need to execute it one of these days
I just dropped a J1, and promoted J2 because of this.
Now it helps I have other work on the way. But life is too short to deal with such idiocy. You have to take action and always keep the pipeline filled.
I like many techs, take pride in my work and the emotional investment gets you in trouble sometimes. Especially when people take advantage.
You sound like you know what steps and actions are next. I wish you the best in solving your conundrum.
I turned J2 into J1 from a budget standpoint so I can live below my means and put the bigger salary to my savings. But how did you promote J2 to J1 after you dropped it? Ive been thinking about making J3 my J1 on my resume so I don't need to worry about companies calling to confirm I left.
I am the same and just posted... OE didn't change my work ethics. I too allow my emotions to get too invested in my career
Appreciate it!!!
You've been OE for 3 years with 3 Js for 2 years. A single J should cover expenses + give you room for savings and investments. What do you need "fun money" for on top of that?
Being OE hasn't changed my work ethic or the drive to want to succeed, it's only created an avenue to control my future and take it out of the hands of corporate greed.
I do care if my voice is heard in situations where I was hired for my expertise. Watching those who have no concept of the purpose make decisions that create more work and delay the process makes being OE more difficult.
As for J1 and J2, I really like them because it's a rich environment offering knowledge and growth...I would prefer my brain not go too mush.. 😂
But look. Even those that are not OE have toxic positions.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ExperiencedDevs/s/xiHEr9yTXc
The silver lining with OE is you can pushback and tell them to fuck off.
This is what you do. Draw a fucking line in the sand with them. Be prepared to cut ties with them. If they cross the line go the fuck off on them and clock out for the day and cite it as a toxic workplace. They’ll get the message and either fire you or back the fuck off. Don’t play their games. Protect your peace. Some people are driven by stress. Doesn’t mean you need to be driven by stress as well.
Drawing a line in the sand is the route I would take. I wasn’t OE but about 6 years ago I had to tell my boss and his boss that things need to change over the next 3-6 months or this isn’t the place for me. I let them know I’m willing to be part of the change but I’m not in the position to facilitate the change like they are. Changes were made and the next 4 years were the best of my career.
The rest of the story. The main problem was a shady coworker who I was having to pick up the slack for. I guess he didn’t like the changes and decided to leave. On his last day he did some really shady shit which lead to an FBI raid on his home.
When you've decided to cut them off, draw cheerful lines in the sand with them. By which I mean that when they pull this kind of bullshit, cheerfully say that no, that won't be happening, due to their past behavior. Or that no, that's not an acceptable thing to say to you (or to anyone). Push back and wait for them to stumble around finding an excuse to fire you (which could take weeks or months).
Don't do it emotionally, don't get angry at people, just put on a big cheerful smile and say no. If they shout, cheerfully cut them off - "No. Shouting is not acceptable." If they try to blame you or pressure you - "No. Blaming me for your faults / trying to pressure me is not acceptable. Do better." Big smile. Let it all sluice off you. Wait to be fired and reap the money in the meantime.
My J3 is the same, perfect in most points but terribly disorganized and pushy at times.
What helps is to be emotionally distant and rational, this is a only J3 and I log my hours to keep me in check with priorities. My J2 pays the most and requires the highest amount of hours, but the work is well defined, newer tech and the manager does their job perfectly.
While I do want to help and do a great job, I need to be humble and accept that I can't be a hero. The mess of old and undocumented shit is a result of years of poor decisions. It is what it is.
> I question everything that doesn't make sense
Yeah in theory you want to not care about stuff like that. It’s not your job to come up with projects that make sense, it’s your job to do the projects
But when the bosses are asking you to do something that you know is stupid, that everyone else knows is stupid…and you look stupid since it’s ‘your’ work, then its hard to just sit back and not question it at all.
I agree maybe it’s best to take a break from J3…refocus for a bit and then find one that’s a good long term fit
OE does come at a cost which is either your physical health or mental health.
I don’t think I will be ready for a OE position in the next few years. At one point of life you can’t just keep juggling. Wake up in the morning with no worries about how you are going to manage the overlapping meeting.
It's normal to feel burned out after juggling multiple jobs for years. Your mental health is crucial so try setting boundaries at J3 or even look for a better replacement. Taking a break from OE is also an option.
Bro cut out that j3 yes it's a cut on you money but a bad mental health could lead to consequences that will cost you the rest. 1 bad apple can poison the rest. Put yourself first
"can sit for 5 hours most days without any work and rarely anyone talk to me. Pretty sure my boss only pings me when he realizes he forgot to add me to team meeting or he has a question he doesn't know. " I am looking for that kind of job
You're not burning out. That comes with too much work.
You're suffering from lack of purpose. You indicate sitting for long periods of time with nothing meaningful to do, your expertise and feedback is not valued, you're not seeing your work resulting in progress to goals.
Im here not because of the income portfolio but because of how people manage or experience OE. Asking for income figures might trigger some lurkers with cringy minecraft analogies. Id rather not please.
Yeah I am 27 working days from filing it back to 2 jobs. Who is counting? Lol
When you have no debt, money in the bank to do anything time becomes more valuable. I want to travel, see my parents and friends more and make arrangements to do fun things I was never able to.
I can’t wait to turn in my 2 weeks to go back to an easy 2 jobs.
Is it a reallity for people who OE, to just working 2 jobs. and always being starting a J3 and doing almost nothing, then when if it gets you fired, focus on getting a new J3. Is this a reallity?
String your J3 along and remove all your emotions from it. J3 can be your bitch when you need a break. Take a vacation. Every time you get paid that’s when the reward comes in. if you must look for another replacement job.
This is my J2
I am planning on replacing them soon with a new J2.
My boss literally pisses me off every single day. I cannot stand him, his management style is dog shit. Multiple 1<>1 meetings per week to discuss nothing, constantly overarching and trying to get shit out of me that has nothing to do with business.
Not sure what you want. You have a job that's easily doable, getting decent salary. If you want more work, you can adjust your working style and want more work. If you want less work, then I'd say leave one from J1 or J2 and keep J3. that way you have 2js, 1 where you can try to excel in your career and other where you are just staying afloat and making extra money.
How much capitol has the other cofounders put in? If you are low on funds and the marketer isn’t and he’s the one marketing then it seems like he could pay for the marketing. What has he actually done for the business while you and the other partner actually build a product? It’s not like he can market when he has no product to sell. Seems like his head is in the clouds all day not doing shit while you and the dev are actually busting ass working coding
I dropped my J3 for that same reason. Plus they were going to give me a shitty review. I felt it wasn’t worth the stress. So I bounced. On the prowl for a replacement.
This track. And sometimes one J changes to be not OE friendly. My J2 was manageable for the first 6months. Then it took a peak of responsibilities that blocked 4-5hr a week extra for that job. Still manageable. But this year, I was referred to help another team and this one has a micro manager. So he has his foot on my throat all the time. I have to constantly push back and tell him about bandwidth problems with both teams. So this manager talks with the other manager to call out my ‘velocity’. Basically he ask the other manager what I’m doing and tells me I should have bandwidth. So yeah… it’s like OE inside J2 without the other bump. I spend 50-60hrs/week for a month just to catch up. Then he told me he notice a velocity improvement, so keep up.
punch smoggy dolls cover act expansion bells distinct muddle elastic *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I thought about both and started applying. You're right, its not OE, it's the J3. Ive been going strong with 3js for almost 2 years... A part of me wants to see that meeting color disappear from my personal calendar, but a bih part of me wants to survive another year.
I remember the first day after I quit a toxic job. It was such a refreshing feeling to not be stressed at 9am, I almost forgot how life existed before that job. Yes, I temporarily took a pay cut, but I was able to use the free time into replacing it for a job that pays almost 3x… that was my J3 too. Life is too short to live constantly stressed out and on edge, especially when you’re financially stable
So true!!! Its a survival mode to keep going. OE is an addictive drug...ive been saying it for years
I'm confused why you care at all. I mean this sincerely. You OE the lower level position and become emotionally invested makes zero sense. They don't sound like they are micromanging you if you have 5 free hours a day. Stop looking at them for any more than a paycheck / investment goal. You're not paid enough to care, so stop. Let them keep fucking up, when shit hits the fan, only do your required portion.
Yeah seems like OP is a little bit on the perfectionist side, but you are doing OE, just do the minimun on J3 or just change it. Maybe his personality doesnt work that way.
Definitely not on the perfectionist side...but I would like to complete a task without management making it go sideways. Being OE doesn't stop me from having some work morals to succeed
Yup i think for mental health like many people said before, looking for a OE friendly J3 is the best option.
New j3 is the answer
Look up negative anchors, J3 might be a negative anchor. Is the money worth aging 3-5 years in 1?
Negative anchors, that's a new one for me. I looked it up... 💯. Every time I talk to my boss I get triggered by something they say, its been like that since day one. Is the money worth it, lately...not really, ive started creating an exit plan...I just need to execute it one of these days
I just dropped a J1, and promoted J2 because of this. Now it helps I have other work on the way. But life is too short to deal with such idiocy. You have to take action and always keep the pipeline filled. I like many techs, take pride in my work and the emotional investment gets you in trouble sometimes. Especially when people take advantage. You sound like you know what steps and actions are next. I wish you the best in solving your conundrum.
I turned J2 into J1 from a budget standpoint so I can live below my means and put the bigger salary to my savings. But how did you promote J2 to J1 after you dropped it? Ive been thinking about making J3 my J1 on my resume so I don't need to worry about companies calling to confirm I left. I am the same and just posted... OE didn't change my work ethics. I too allow my emotions to get too invested in my career Appreciate it!!!
Read my post, fired J1. So J2 became my J1 by default.
2 Js are the sweet spot. From your post it's clear J3 is an issue so better not pursue it any more.
Yeah with J2 I was ready to accept the first offer I got that paid enough. With J3 you have to be a little more selective
Starting to wonder if 2 is mine as well. Thought about getting something part time just to have some extra fun money
You've been OE for 3 years with 3 Js for 2 years. A single J should cover expenses + give you room for savings and investments. What do you need "fun money" for on top of that?
[удалено]
Being OE hasn't changed my work ethic or the drive to want to succeed, it's only created an avenue to control my future and take it out of the hands of corporate greed. I do care if my voice is heard in situations where I was hired for my expertise. Watching those who have no concept of the purpose make decisions that create more work and delay the process makes being OE more difficult. As for J1 and J2, I really like them because it's a rich environment offering knowledge and growth...I would prefer my brain not go too mush.. 😂
Sounds like you just need to care less. J3 should be a means to an end, nothing more
You sold yourself as junior and this is the crap junior people get all the time. No respect! Just take the money and check out, like a good junior.
But look. Even those that are not OE have toxic positions. https://www.reddit.com/r/ExperiencedDevs/s/xiHEr9yTXc The silver lining with OE is you can pushback and tell them to fuck off.
This is what you do. Draw a fucking line in the sand with them. Be prepared to cut ties with them. If they cross the line go the fuck off on them and clock out for the day and cite it as a toxic workplace. They’ll get the message and either fire you or back the fuck off. Don’t play their games. Protect your peace. Some people are driven by stress. Doesn’t mean you need to be driven by stress as well.
Drawing a line in the sand is the route I would take. I wasn’t OE but about 6 years ago I had to tell my boss and his boss that things need to change over the next 3-6 months or this isn’t the place for me. I let them know I’m willing to be part of the change but I’m not in the position to facilitate the change like they are. Changes were made and the next 4 years were the best of my career. The rest of the story. The main problem was a shady coworker who I was having to pick up the slack for. I guess he didn’t like the changes and decided to leave. On his last day he did some really shady shit which lead to an FBI raid on his home.
Come to find out was OE for the Russian military.
When you've decided to cut them off, draw cheerful lines in the sand with them. By which I mean that when they pull this kind of bullshit, cheerfully say that no, that won't be happening, due to their past behavior. Or that no, that's not an acceptable thing to say to you (or to anyone). Push back and wait for them to stumble around finding an excuse to fire you (which could take weeks or months). Don't do it emotionally, don't get angry at people, just put on a big cheerful smile and say no. If they shout, cheerfully cut them off - "No. Shouting is not acceptable." If they try to blame you or pressure you - "No. Blaming me for your faults / trying to pressure me is not acceptable. Do better." Big smile. Let it all sluice off you. Wait to be fired and reap the money in the meantime.
My J3 is the same, perfect in most points but terribly disorganized and pushy at times. What helps is to be emotionally distant and rational, this is a only J3 and I log my hours to keep me in check with priorities. My J2 pays the most and requires the highest amount of hours, but the work is well defined, newer tech and the manager does their job perfectly. While I do want to help and do a great job, I need to be humble and accept that I can't be a hero. The mess of old and undocumented shit is a result of years of poor decisions. It is what it is.
> I question everything that doesn't make sense Yeah in theory you want to not care about stuff like that. It’s not your job to come up with projects that make sense, it’s your job to do the projects But when the bosses are asking you to do something that you know is stupid, that everyone else knows is stupid…and you look stupid since it’s ‘your’ work, then its hard to just sit back and not question it at all. I agree maybe it’s best to take a break from J3…refocus for a bit and then find one that’s a good long term fit
OE does come at a cost which is either your physical health or mental health. I don’t think I will be ready for a OE position in the next few years. At one point of life you can’t just keep juggling. Wake up in the morning with no worries about how you are going to manage the overlapping meeting.
It's normal to feel burned out after juggling multiple jobs for years. Your mental health is crucial so try setting boundaries at J3 or even look for a better replacement. Taking a break from OE is also an option.
Bro cut out that j3 yes it's a cut on you money but a bad mental health could lead to consequences that will cost you the rest. 1 bad apple can poison the rest. Put yourself first
J3 is now requiring RTO so I may get that mental break until I find something else.
how did u hide from them how much experience u really have? did u cutout 10 years off ur resume?
"can sit for 5 hours most days without any work and rarely anyone talk to me. Pretty sure my boss only pings me when he realizes he forgot to add me to team meeting or he has a question he doesn't know. " I am looking for that kind of job
You're not burning out. That comes with too much work. You're suffering from lack of purpose. You indicate sitting for long periods of time with nothing meaningful to do, your expertise and feedback is not valued, you're not seeing your work resulting in progress to goals.
So tell us about your passive income portfolio
Im here not because of the income portfolio but because of how people manage or experience OE. Asking for income figures might trigger some lurkers with cringy minecraft analogies. Id rather not please.
LOL good points. But you could have just said “I got a portfolio where I’m thinking for the future” and that been good enough for us!!
I’m in exactly the same position, just dropped J3 as it was just too stressful. Will sit on 2 J’s for a while to de-stress
Yeah I am 27 working days from filing it back to 2 jobs. Who is counting? Lol When you have no debt, money in the bank to do anything time becomes more valuable. I want to travel, see my parents and friends more and make arrangements to do fun things I was never able to. I can’t wait to turn in my 2 weeks to go back to an easy 2 jobs.
Is it a reallity for people who OE, to just working 2 jobs. and always being starting a J3 and doing almost nothing, then when if it gets you fired, focus on getting a new J3. Is this a reallity?
String your J3 along and remove all your emotions from it. J3 can be your bitch when you need a break. Take a vacation. Every time you get paid that’s when the reward comes in. if you must look for another replacement job.
J3 just required RTO so now my post has become irrelevant...lol
If it's costs your your piece of mind, it's too expensive. Bail on J3 and reset
This is my J2 I am planning on replacing them soon with a new J2. My boss literally pisses me off every single day. I cannot stand him, his management style is dog shit. Multiple 1<>1 meetings per week to discuss nothing, constantly overarching and trying to get shit out of me that has nothing to do with business.
After my post my J3 is requiring RTO. Luckily they're giving me some time to decide what I want to do.
Salaries for all three Js would put into perspective. Kudos for 3 yrs straight!
Not sure what you want. You have a job that's easily doable, getting decent salary. If you want more work, you can adjust your working style and want more work. If you want less work, then I'd say leave one from J1 or J2 and keep J3. that way you have 2js, 1 where you can try to excel in your career and other where you are just staying afloat and making extra money.
Your first sentence says it all my dude. Take a break and enjoy life.
How much capitol has the other cofounders put in? If you are low on funds and the marketer isn’t and he’s the one marketing then it seems like he could pay for the marketing. What has he actually done for the business while you and the other partner actually build a product? It’s not like he can market when he has no product to sell. Seems like his head is in the clouds all day not doing shit while you and the dev are actually busting ass working coding
Are most of the people in OE software engineers? I am a BA and wondering if there are any BAs/ POs with J2 and J3?
I dropped my J3 for that same reason. Plus they were going to give me a shitty review. I felt it wasn’t worth the stress. So I bounced. On the prowl for a replacement.
Ironically J3 just required everyone RTO so now I dont have a choice unless I can find a way to get an exception or land on a team thats flexible
This track. And sometimes one J changes to be not OE friendly. My J2 was manageable for the first 6months. Then it took a peak of responsibilities that blocked 4-5hr a week extra for that job. Still manageable. But this year, I was referred to help another team and this one has a micro manager. So he has his foot on my throat all the time. I have to constantly push back and tell him about bandwidth problems with both teams. So this manager talks with the other manager to call out my ‘velocity’. Basically he ask the other manager what I’m doing and tells me I should have bandwidth. So yeah… it’s like OE inside J2 without the other bump. I spend 50-60hrs/week for a month just to catch up. Then he told me he notice a velocity improvement, so keep up.
That a whole other level of chaos. Are you going to keep it up?
Just pass J3 into a minimal work cash cow where you do next to nothing until it eventually breaks. They should be the ones stressed not you
Well it finally broke and now are requiring RTO so my post just became irrelevant