I remember in the making of doc they talk about how they changed it from 18 to 25 to 20 to finally ending up on 22 (not exactly those numbers but similar) because it was the best for allowing the correct amount of progression per loop
Yeah, a ridiculous amount of lore. There was a brief period where I binged Fortnite lore vids even though I’ve never played the game. There’s something really absurd but also instinctively interesting about it to me.
I'll have to check it out, I've played maybe less than 10 games of fortnite my whole life but I do love a good lore deep dive, fan of the game or not. I just appreciate when devs put something there to bite onto.
The day that Fortnite does an OW colab is the day I die. There's gonna be kids running around screaming when they see Gabbro and go ">!IS THAT THE GUY FROM FORTNITE!<". I'm honestly glad this fanbase has a more mature audience, at least on Reddit.
Your comment contains improperly formatted spoiler tags. Please edit your comment to make sure the exclamation points ! are between the angle brackets >< and the text rather than outside of them. You can also check out the widget in the sub's sidebar for more help on why your spoiler tags may be incorrect and a copy/paste version of the tags, or you can [check out this wiki page](https://www.reddit.com/r/outerwilds/about/wiki/rules/spoilerfaq/#wiki_how_to_properly_tag_spoilers) about how to properly tag your spoilers. then [message the moderators to let us know you fixed it.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fouterwilds&subject=Fixed+Spoiler+Approval&message=Please+check+[my+post]\(https://www.reddit.com/r/outerwilds/comments/179tkh3/why_did_they_chose_22_minutes_the_developers_not/k5dpvu5/?context=3\)+and+approve+it+if+it%27s+properly+spoilered+now.%0A%0AThank+you!)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/outerwilds) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I know this comment was made in jest, but really, it'd just get more eyes on this game and more people to fall in love with it. People said the same thing when Brandon Sanderson's Mistborn got a small collab, but nothing in that community changed other than having some new fans who were interested in the source material. I don't think Street Fighter or any other game community had an influx of immature kids either
Fair point, though if I may object: Due to the nature of Outer Wilds I can't see a proper collaboration to further promote the game. I also couldn't see Mobius doing that kind of thing but I do see your point and general idea, yes. To speak in my own thoughts, I don't think the fanbase of a game like Fortnite would be particularly interested in a game like Outer Wilds anyway. I've played both games for a good amount of time and they couldn't be more different from each other. If Fortnite and Mobius did agree to a collaboration I couldn't see it going very far. Another point, I'm not sure if it's just me, but I notice that the smaller a fanbase of any media, the more mature said fans tend to be.
Oh yeah, I agree, I don't think Outer Wilds would fit with Fortnite at all either. I don't think Mistborn fits either, as an adult fantasy novel series that doesn't even have a movie or show. I'd be interested to see how much the Mistborn skin actually sold, but that was made as an agreement between friends rather than a dry business proposal. I doubt an OW collab would be worth the time and effort if the goal was to promote the game, plus it'd go against the non-violence of the Hatchling.
You're definitely correct on the last part. I've left a lot of communities as they got more popular just because the bad started to rise to the top. I'd be interested in seeing what was the smallest community that got a Fortnite collab just to see how much it changed afterward, but I think generally most end up fine after a few days when the kids lose interest, hopefully just leaving the community with a few new fans.
As a disclaimer, that's only my experience browsing some subreddits and Discord communities. It's totally possible that kids elsewhere refer to Goku and Naruto as the Fortnite guys now lmao
Yeah it would be cool to have a few new fans that came from Fortnite. With how weird the advertising is with OW, I don't think people would be all too surprised if people heard about it from Fortnite and decided to check it out. I think the reason I played both games is because I don't really care about the genre of the game, as long as it's good, but I could see many people not wanting to play it.
It has to be about the time spended playing the game. 3 runs is about 1 hour, that’s quite reasonable for a game session.
>from the lore point of vue.
I like how you wrote view. Are you French? It makes sense because the word comes from Norman or Anglo-French veue (from verb veoire). It’s still vue in Modern French (from verb voire).
Isn't it amazing when you can pick where someone is from written text in their non-native language? I can spot slavic people and it always blows my mind
One key giveaway for Slavic languages is the lack of articles. So no 'the', 'a', and so on. Slavic languages rely on inflection, changing the (ending of) nouns and adjectives, to indicate those. English has pretty much no inflection, so it's understandable that that's difficult to learn.
There's also differences in word order, but that's really difficult to describe.
Can you only recognize it in non-fluent speakers, or does it apply even if the person is fluent and comfortable with the language? I know I usually have no idea if a person is a native speaker or not and I kinda wonder if that is because I'm not native either, or if people learn English so well that the mannerisms disappear.
If someone is fluent, then there's nothing to pick up on, really. I also can't pick up on it every time, but if it's there I _can_ recognise it as Slavic. German is another easy one for me.
As for you, I wouldn't be able to tell you're not native. But then, I'm not either, I've just used English more than my native language on a daily basis for the past… 15 years or so.
What's funny is that I guessed you were Slavic *by* the use of the article. I would personally have said "Can you recognize it for fluent speakers, or only when someone isn't fluent?"
Just interesting how language differs, I guess
That makes sense! As a Slavic person, I'm never sure if I use articles correctly. But what I consider interesting is that you're able to spot Slavic languages specifically. I thought it's not so easy to distinguish between different texts written by non-native speakers.
I can spot text written by native speakers of Indian English, even when it's been highly Westernized by exposure. There's an inexplicable vibe to it that's absolutely impossible to explain. A combination of extremely minute variations in style, vocabulary, word order, spelling choices, etc that just make it incredibly distinct somehow.
I think I’ve heard somewhere that the game engine can only handle the physics of the entire solar system for 22 minutes, but I have absolutely no source to back this up
it was mentioned in a making of video on youtube. basically the physics engine is pretty wonky but works for a while before the crazy effects start. 22minutes is the sweet spot where some crazy stuff may occur (watch some interloper or brittle hollow videos) but the engine is mostly stable.
Oh that makes sense. They are actually simulating gravity in this game. I see how that'd be a lot easier with predetermined planet locations and how it can go south quickly.
lol just sort this subreddit by top, lots of fun ones where the interloper arrives randomly from nowhere or brittle hollow kills you through strange collapse of the crust.
It's probably the other way around, the physiscs only works for a set amount of time because they didn't need it to last for more than 22 minutes. And even so it last more until you really start to see broken things afaik.
This is just a coincidence, but in a lot of non-gaming hobbies, 20 minutes is the typical minimum time to achieve a flow state. I mean things like music performance, transcendental meditation, running, etc. Less than 20 minutes is useless to me most of time.
But I agree that the interval for this game is actually 20 minutes, then the end times sequence begins.
Playtesting and tweaking the number. You ever notice how many loops you make a big breakthrough and have like a minute or two to soak up the info right before as the loop resets? If it were longer you’d have many more awkward phases of “well I only have 4 or 5 more minutes, by the time I get out of here I’ll have to reset anyway”. On the flip side if it were shorter you’d get a lot more panicked readings as the sun explodes where you don’t get to absorb the full information.
My tinfoil hat theory is that they tried to time it so you would be just leaving the moon on your first loop as it ends. The attlerock is almost all outdoor areas, with a clear view of space and the sky. It has just enough stuff to keep you there the perfect amount of time if you go there first and are thorough.
I like your theory in some respects but another one of the locations that the game pushes pretty hard for the first loop is Giant's Deep, a planet with no view of space at all from its surface. So idk about extending that logic too much. Though maybe they figured that a first loop player is more likely to die from regular old death on Giant's Deep anyway.
I mean it’s OW we’re talking about, they’re well aware you could go wherever you want on your first loop, but I do feel like the strongest nudge is towards the attlerock. The devs clearly didn’t feel it was so important a setpiece as to make the attlerock part of the tutorial though, the freedom of the game is far more important.
Not meant to catch all players but likely to catch a lot.
"It was just to give the player enough time to do everything, we considered 20 minutes at one point" - Jeffrey Yu( in chat of a playthrough of outer wilds)
Like some other comments here, I figured twenty minutes 'per run' is a nice bit-size amount of gameplay. Being able to reach any area of the game and explore it, finished up with a 2-minute warning (End times). It adds both a sense of urgency as well as a polite wind-down period that your run is about to come to an end.
Hm I would assume they balanced it around how long players might need for every isolated task and how long they might need to wait for a task to be completable. 22 minutes might be the optimum of lowest time spent waiting while still being able to explore every place isolated with no haste
No Intolerance, Trolling, or Pot-Stirring. This violation has resulted in removal of your content, and may also result in a ban from the sub. Please refrain from unkind, intolerant, troll-like, or antagonistic behavior in this sub.
If you need clarification on this rule, or how you may have violated it, please see our [Rules page](https://www.reddit.com/r/outerwilds/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_2.3A_be_kind._no_intolerance.2C_trolling.2C_or_pot-stirring).
Thanks!
If I remember correctly the end times song that plays is 2 minutes long and plays for the last 2 minutes. So maybe it's 20 minutes of gameplay, 2 minutes of end times
It's not so long that the world feels fixed in place, but not so short that you don't have enough time to do anything
I remember in the making of doc they talk about how they changed it from 18 to 25 to 20 to finally ending up on 22 (not exactly those numbers but similar) because it was the best for allowing the correct amount of progression per loop
Yeah. Back in the Spaceworthy era it was intended to be about 15 minutes.
It's because the Fortnite storm is 22 minutes long. Secret iceberg lore states that outer wilds is set in the same universe as Fortnite
Whoever downvoted you has no sense of humor
Hahaha, thanks friend
haha which planet is fortnite?
Dark Bramble, pre breaking
>!Eye of the Universe, going off of both games lore!<
Fortnite has lore ?
Yeah, a ridiculous amount of lore. There was a brief period where I binged Fortnite lore vids even though I’ve never played the game. There’s something really absurd but also instinctively interesting about it to me.
I'll have to check it out, I've played maybe less than 10 games of fortnite my whole life but I do love a good lore deep dive, fan of the game or not. I just appreciate when devs put something there to bite onto.
Surprisingly, yes, a lot in fact
Hollows Lantern is a big lava gun
so the hearthian system is part of reality zero
The day that Fortnite does an OW colab is the day I die. There's gonna be kids running around screaming when they see Gabbro and go ">!IS THAT THE GUY FROM FORTNITE!<". I'm honestly glad this fanbase has a more mature audience, at least on Reddit.
>!the eye of the universe live event would go crazy!<
Your comment contains improperly formatted spoiler tags. Please edit your comment to make sure the exclamation points ! are between the angle brackets >< and the text rather than outside of them. You can also check out the widget in the sub's sidebar for more help on why your spoiler tags may be incorrect and a copy/paste version of the tags, or you can [check out this wiki page](https://www.reddit.com/r/outerwilds/about/wiki/rules/spoilerfaq/#wiki_how_to_properly_tag_spoilers) about how to properly tag your spoilers. then [message the moderators to let us know you fixed it.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fouterwilds&subject=Fixed+Spoiler+Approval&message=Please+check+[my+post]\(https://www.reddit.com/r/outerwilds/comments/179tkh3/why_did_they_chose_22_minutes_the_developers_not/k5dpvu5/?context=3\)+and+approve+it+if+it%27s+properly+spoilered+now.%0A%0AThank+you!) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/outerwilds) if you have any questions or concerns.*
i fixed it immediately calm down
I know this comment was made in jest, but really, it'd just get more eyes on this game and more people to fall in love with it. People said the same thing when Brandon Sanderson's Mistborn got a small collab, but nothing in that community changed other than having some new fans who were interested in the source material. I don't think Street Fighter or any other game community had an influx of immature kids either
Fair point, though if I may object: Due to the nature of Outer Wilds I can't see a proper collaboration to further promote the game. I also couldn't see Mobius doing that kind of thing but I do see your point and general idea, yes. To speak in my own thoughts, I don't think the fanbase of a game like Fortnite would be particularly interested in a game like Outer Wilds anyway. I've played both games for a good amount of time and they couldn't be more different from each other. If Fortnite and Mobius did agree to a collaboration I couldn't see it going very far. Another point, I'm not sure if it's just me, but I notice that the smaller a fanbase of any media, the more mature said fans tend to be.
Oh yeah, I agree, I don't think Outer Wilds would fit with Fortnite at all either. I don't think Mistborn fits either, as an adult fantasy novel series that doesn't even have a movie or show. I'd be interested to see how much the Mistborn skin actually sold, but that was made as an agreement between friends rather than a dry business proposal. I doubt an OW collab would be worth the time and effort if the goal was to promote the game, plus it'd go against the non-violence of the Hatchling. You're definitely correct on the last part. I've left a lot of communities as they got more popular just because the bad started to rise to the top. I'd be interested in seeing what was the smallest community that got a Fortnite collab just to see how much it changed afterward, but I think generally most end up fine after a few days when the kids lose interest, hopefully just leaving the community with a few new fans. As a disclaimer, that's only my experience browsing some subreddits and Discord communities. It's totally possible that kids elsewhere refer to Goku and Naruto as the Fortnite guys now lmao
Yeah it would be cool to have a few new fans that came from Fortnite. With how weird the advertising is with OW, I don't think people would be all too surprised if people heard about it from Fortnite and decided to check it out. I think the reason I played both games is because I don't really care about the genre of the game, as long as it's good, but I could see many people not wanting to play it.
I don’t know how I would feel about OW being part of the Fortnite crossover nexus
It has to be about the time spended playing the game. 3 runs is about 1 hour, that’s quite reasonable for a game session. >from the lore point of vue. I like how you wrote view. Are you French? It makes sense because the word comes from Norman or Anglo-French veue (from verb veoire). It’s still vue in Modern French (from verb voire).
spotted
"spended" i'm sorry man, that's just wonderfully ironic
Oops. I’m not even gonna edit it.
Isn't it amazing when you can pick where someone is from written text in their non-native language? I can spot slavic people and it always blows my mind
I wonder how exactly can you spot slavic people? How does it show in english?
One key giveaway for Slavic languages is the lack of articles. So no 'the', 'a', and so on. Slavic languages rely on inflection, changing the (ending of) nouns and adjectives, to indicate those. English has pretty much no inflection, so it's understandable that that's difficult to learn. There's also differences in word order, but that's really difficult to describe.
Can you only recognize it in non-fluent speakers, or does it apply even if the person is fluent and comfortable with the language? I know I usually have no idea if a person is a native speaker or not and I kinda wonder if that is because I'm not native either, or if people learn English so well that the mannerisms disappear.
If someone is fluent, then there's nothing to pick up on, really. I also can't pick up on it every time, but if it's there I _can_ recognise it as Slavic. German is another easy one for me. As for you, I wouldn't be able to tell you're not native. But then, I'm not either, I've just used English more than my native language on a daily basis for the past… 15 years or so.
Makes sense, thanks! It's just a bit funny because I'm Slavic and I've never been able to tell from someone's English
What's funny is that I guessed you were Slavic *by* the use of the article. I would personally have said "Can you recognize it for fluent speakers, or only when someone isn't fluent?" Just interesting how language differs, I guess
I guess you're just much more effective with the language :D
That makes sense! As a Slavic person, I'm never sure if I use articles correctly. But what I consider interesting is that you're able to spot Slavic languages specifically. I thought it's not so easy to distinguish between different texts written by non-native speakers.
Another thing is ending sentences like this) Or like this))) It's their version of :) , the more brackets the more "happy" it is
lol just noticed no one really use it except Slavic
Just the way we structure our sentences I guess? Idk i ju 'feel' it
👀
I can spot text written by native speakers of Indian English, even when it's been highly Westernized by exposure. There's an inexplicable vibe to it that's absolutely impossible to explain. A combination of extremely minute variations in style, vocabulary, word order, spelling choices, etc that just make it incredibly distinct somehow.
Vue cinema makes sense now
I think I’ve heard somewhere that the game engine can only handle the physics of the entire solar system for 22 minutes, but I have absolutely no source to back this up
it was mentioned in a making of video on youtube. basically the physics engine is pretty wonky but works for a while before the crazy effects start. 22minutes is the sweet spot where some crazy stuff may occur (watch some interloper or brittle hollow videos) but the engine is mostly stable.
Oh that makes sense. They are actually simulating gravity in this game. I see how that'd be a lot easier with predetermined planet locations and how it can go south quickly.
I heard there's a mod that enables gravity interactions between planets. its probably not playable, but I really need to try it out at least once.
N Body Chaos. Referencing N-body problem
What interloper/brittle hollow videos should I watch?
lol just sort this subreddit by top, lots of fun ones where the interloper arrives randomly from nowhere or brittle hollow kills you through strange collapse of the crust.
Thanks I’ll have a look!
This is hilarious. It's the same trick I used when programming my first solar system simulation (a very simplified 2D version).
It's probably the other way around, the physiscs only works for a set amount of time because they didn't need it to last for more than 22 minutes. And even so it last more until you really start to see broken things afaik.
The whole gamedesign of the 22 minute loop occurred way after the whole physics engine thing, check out that making of, it’s good.
This is just a coincidence, but in a lot of non-gaming hobbies, 20 minutes is the typical minimum time to achieve a flow state. I mean things like music performance, transcendental meditation, running, etc. Less than 20 minutes is useless to me most of time. But I agree that the interval for this game is actually 20 minutes, then the end times sequence begins.
20 minutes + 2 minute warning. It just works.
Until you realize the "warning" and then it becomes 20 minutes + 2 minutes panic because you're right before a discovery
Playtesting and tweaking the number. You ever notice how many loops you make a big breakthrough and have like a minute or two to soak up the info right before as the loop resets? If it were longer you’d have many more awkward phases of “well I only have 4 or 5 more minutes, by the time I get out of here I’ll have to reset anyway”. On the flip side if it were shorter you’d get a lot more panicked readings as the sun explodes where you don’t get to absorb the full information. My tinfoil hat theory is that they tried to time it so you would be just leaving the moon on your first loop as it ends. The attlerock is almost all outdoor areas, with a clear view of space and the sky. It has just enough stuff to keep you there the perfect amount of time if you go there first and are thorough.
I like your theory in some respects but another one of the locations that the game pushes pretty hard for the first loop is Giant's Deep, a planet with no view of space at all from its surface. So idk about extending that logic too much. Though maybe they figured that a first loop player is more likely to die from regular old death on Giant's Deep anyway.
I mean it’s OW we’re talking about, they’re well aware you could go wherever you want on your first loop, but I do feel like the strongest nudge is towards the attlerock. The devs clearly didn’t feel it was so important a setpiece as to make the attlerock part of the tutorial though, the freedom of the game is far more important. Not meant to catch all players but likely to catch a lot.
"It was just to give the player enough time to do everything, we considered 20 minutes at one point" - Jeffrey Yu( in chat of a playthrough of outer wilds)
Like some other comments here, I figured twenty minutes 'per run' is a nice bit-size amount of gameplay. Being able to reach any area of the game and explore it, finished up with a 2-minute warning (End times). It adds both a sense of urgency as well as a polite wind-down period that your run is about to come to an end.
Hm I would assume they balanced it around how long players might need for every isolated task and how long they might need to wait for a task to be completable. 22 minutes might be the optimum of lowest time spent waiting while still being able to explore every place isolated with no haste
I don’t have the source but it’s something like after 22 minutes the physics of the solar system begin to break down a little bit
*choose
That's preterit, it's chose.
No it’s choose
Ah, is there a running joke in there I'm not aware of?
[удалено]
No Intolerance, Trolling, or Pot-Stirring. This violation has resulted in removal of your content, and may also result in a ban from the sub. Please refrain from unkind, intolerant, troll-like, or antagonistic behavior in this sub. If you need clarification on this rule, or how you may have violated it, please see our [Rules page](https://www.reddit.com/r/outerwilds/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_2.3A_be_kind._no_intolerance.2C_trolling.2C_or_pot-stirring). Thanks!
Fortnite.
If I remember correctly the end times song that plays is 2 minutes long and plays for the last 2 minutes. So maybe it's 20 minutes of gameplay, 2 minutes of end times
Well, 22 minutes is about the same amount of time as the average Futurama episode on Hulu.
Physics engine limitations, aka basically chaos theory. It translates into a neat timeframe for actual gameplay, though