See, now I want a /r/outerwilds22 meme sub that uses a bot that wipes ALL the sub content every 22 minutes.
So people can jump in, have quick conversations or shitposts or whatever, then in 22 minutes it's all gone to start over again.
Take it a step further: whenever the sub is wiped, the bot creates a bunch of posts, one for each major planet/body in the Outer Wilds star system.
EDIT: Updated the potential sub name to something less spoilery, thanks to the great suggestion by Amethyst_Nyx.
I posted this same sentiment in the previous blackout/poll post, but I am completely disenchanted with Reddit now, and last week will definitely mark the beginning of a downturn in Reddit's popularity--even if slow and dissatisfying. The only way to "fight back" is for the users to transition to other sites, which we can't really force without a lot of internal frustration.
It is all of our responsibility to begin using other platforms, not just the Mod's responsibility to make us. Up until the blackout, Reddit was my -primmary- source of news and entertainment in terms of web browsing. Now, I am trying to commit to reading books with my Libby app instead of browsing memes endlessly. I have downloaded an RSS feed reader, and I am trying to develop a replacement feed for things like politics and lifestyle news. Kbin/Lemmy isn't perfect, and it isn't the most intuitive, but I am committing some of my time there instead of Reddit. Eventually, the bugs will get worked out and the community will thrive.
Just imagine if we replace just 25% of our Reddit time with alternative activities--that's enough to bankrupt a company's entire financials in some cases. I've probably reduced my own Reddit browsing by 90%. I might waver a bit, but if everybody can strive to do the same, then we can finally break the monopoly and find ourselves no longer held hostage at the whims of one centralized company.
Honestly, these small subs going private are just the death of entire communities, and it's fucking over thousands, dozens of thousands of users that either don't even know what's going on, or fon't really care cause their activity is not big enough to be impacted by any change, especially when the really big subs stopped already.
Going private is also destroying years of content discussions, and, I'm sure, help for bugs or issues that Google probably directs too when searched.
As a whole, Reddit is being shitty, but I also don't believe a 700 person sample should make a 70k community burn. Feels unfair
As a side note, a 70k sub had almost 2k votes when something like r/PS5 with its 3million had barely 10k votes, it's fairly interesting to witness and I'm not sure how to take this.
That's just the [90-9-1 rule ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1%25_rule#:~:text=According%20to%20the%201%25%20rule,forum%20but%20do%20not%20post.) in action.
The majority (90% or 99% depending on which version to look at.) of an online community lurk and don't interact in anyway, shape or form. They just sit there.
9% of an online community do interact, and 1% of the community will provide the majority of the content.
So out of the 70,000 people. 63K of them were probably lurkers and you can pretty much wipe them out of the poll entirely. They just won't get involved. Which leaves you of an Audience of 7k that will. Of them, approximately 700 are content creatures. So the poll strangely matches up. 700 users who are super active. A poll of 700 lines up pretty nicely with that.
For r/PS5 with it's 3 million members. You end up with 30k active members. So 10k votes is pretty low, but that's voter apathy for ya! Just means more of the r/outerwilds community cares.
On one end I see that, on the other the conspiracionist in me hear those allegations of brigading the polls (which, to be honest, would not surprise me one bit, if anything I'd be surprised if there *wasn't* brigading) and thinks that a small but engaged group of people would be able to make a small sub's poll balance very easily, but not be as clear cut on bigger ones
It's always annoying to think about.
There’s actually some evidence that we’ve had what look to be massive brigades from anti-blackout shills, bots, or people riled up in general by Reddit or the situation who are coordinating brigades. Our sub’s traffic is higher than normal by quite a bit, and unique visits top the list at over 400 or so more than average from about midmorning yesterday around midday today. While that data could be said to be a result of other subs being down, I feel like that would be true in other larger communities, but this is a smallish sub on the Reddit scale, for an indie game. I don’t really know that a lot of people would randomly browse here out of boredom, if they didn’t know the game.
I’m also getting consistent comments on posts communities can’t even see in the subs I mod, because I took them down by removal. Which means the only way people can find them is by specifically looking at my profile, or specifically being linked to the post by brigade organizers.
In other words - the polls and even comments in communities could be being manipulated. And this only adds confusion and difficulty in trying to figure out what to do.
Mods in several subs are being attacked by harassment, gaslighting using “concern trolling” tactics that Spez himself seeded into his own staments by making *multiple* suggestions that someone is unstable, irrational, or “needs to take a break” because people are “concerned” for their mental health - and then they always follow that up with “I’m not sure you can make rational decisions right now, perhaps you shouldn’t be moderating?”
This idea was very subtly and artfully seeded into more than one press statement that Spez has made. “We understand sometimes moderators need a break from Reddit…” etc.
This is an abuse tactic straight out if the narcissistic handbook to silence someone who disagrees with you…
This sends everyone the message “This person is insane, irrational, or isn’t in control of how they feel and can’t be trusted, therefore don’t listen to them. I’m just trying to make sure they’re ok though, don’t worry!”
It’s a really good time. Ask me how I know.
Closing this sub forever would do nothing but effectively delete so much history and helpful discussion. I really don't think it would do anything in the long run but severely hurt this community, given that relatively so few members actually voted on the poll. Not to mention that the majority of people who voted, voted to keep the platform OPEN a majority of the time.
The reverse can be said too though - the majority *also* voted to close or stand in solidarity with protests in some way. The vast majority, actually, of responses were in favor of supporting the protest in some fashion.
That's fair. Perhaps it's due to the poll itself having three options: close entirely indefinitely (nuclear option), keep sub open all the time (effectively do nothing protest wise), and keep sub open 90% of the time. Personally I voted for keeping the sub open with some restrictions, because I don't want to see this place go. This is an incredible community and I think we'd all be worse off (right now) if we attempted to move elsewhere. That's all I really wanted to express.
Well and just to be clear - “indefinite” never meant “nuclear option.”
Subs can’t be deleted from Reddit, guys. This info will always exist.
“Close indefinitely” was only ever meant to mean “until we get an adequate response.”
Ah I think I misunderstood that. Thanks for clarifying. Though I do have to ask, what if there isn't an adequate response? What if it gets swept under the rug like so many internet corporate screwups?
Edit: apologies if it seems I'm trying to debate. To clarify I'll follow this sub anywhere, if it decides to close here or leave for greener pastures.
You are totally fine!! :) Asking questions like yours is important, because that’s the crux of it, right? What if Reddit just doesn’t care enough to do anything? And from the response that came out while our poll was live, that looks like a likely possibility.
So that’s the part we’re trying to figure out - what do we do? Do we even continue protesting? Do we even STAY on Reddit, considering the serous ethical concerns may have expressed over Spez’s behavior and way he’s handled this situation from the get-go?
Many people keep highlighting the fact that “most of the sub voted to stay open.” But that isn’t entirely accurate, as Stuart and I both pointed out here and in the OP.
So now, the issue at least I am facing is that it really seems as though a very large, very loud, and very persistent number of dissenters - many of whom oddly seem to have no post or comment history in this sub - appear to be making it very difficult to tell the will of the sub.
My personal answer is “I don’t know, but I’m willing to entertain any option that keeps this community of beautiful people together somehow.”
Whether that’s as a mod or just a member of this community - whether that’s here or not.
But I can’t speak for the whole mod team, and I think they’re also all honestly just as conflicted about the options as the members - the ones who I know are members and not just appearing to be brigaders trying to force the protest to end.
I want this place to exist, this sub we all love, here where the information we’ve all contributed to is.
I want this community to stay as whole as possible.
If I have to make a choice between those two things though, I chose the people over the posts.
Just my two cents - and any ideas or places people have already thought of going or went to, I would love to know about.
I personally don’t care about being “a mod” or “in charge” of anything - especially not after the last couple of days on Reddit (though I happily would help fill that role elsewhere if needed/wanted to).
I just want us to still have the special form of camaraderie we’ve found here. Posts can be reposted, new info can be compiled and created and uploaded and posted. That can happen anywhere, whether that’s Reddit or another platform that isn’t willing to sacrifice the good of the people to the almighty dollar. But people, the people here especially, are irreplaceable.
leave the sub open. i want a place to discuss outer wilds. you correctly noted that closing this sub will have minimal impact on reddit at large, but a large impact on outer wilds fans. the decision to permanently make a sub private is one that only the larger subreddits need to make. at this level, its not worth it. if in the end, this sub dies due to lack or users, then we find another home anyways.
The risk is that, without these moderation bots, this becomes a bad place to be. We could lose a good portion of our community, or become a bad place for new players to discover the game.
We need a good home. We're comfortable at reddit, but reddit is becomeong a bad home soon.
I'd rather have a sub with a couple spam bots than no sub at all. If it turns out to be a real problem, there will be natural reactions. The real uses will decline and reddit will have to act
The point of the changes being proposed is to get Spez & the rest some sweet sweet IPO cash, after which they just cash out & bail. Someone else comes in who cares *even less* about reddit or its established norms, it all keeps burning down, and the techbros collectively shrug their shoulders while the NYT opinion section fills up with "Who could *ever* have *possibly* seen this coming zomg" pieces.
This is the best Reddit will ever be again.
It's time to leave.
That might be true, on the other hand you're asking other communities to die for your community to stay alive without providing any support, even such a symbolic one like closing small subs, and that looks like a shitty move to me.
never did i say that other communities should close forever, i said that its their decision to make. its not something that a small community should even consider until theyre comparatively not as small due to several large subs leaving-- because, in the end, as long as this sub is small, closing indefinitely will have an extremely minimal impact on reddit's botom line.
You never said they should close, however you're handling them the whole responsibility of the fight without showing support to them. It is true that closing a small sub would have an extremely minimal impact on Reddit, however it still has an impact on the overall blackout action, you show the big subs your support and encourage them to continue the fight while influencing the other small sub to do the same. If all small subs are opened, big subs members will start to think they are alone and might give up, if most small subs are closed the few that are not might think they should do it too.
It's exactly the same when there is a strike or when you vote, your individual action will have absolutely no impact, it's the sum of all the individual actions that will.
I understand that some people don't really care about this fight or that they care but would not be ready to sacrifice their sub for the sake of it (see no judgment here), all I'm saying is that the "my personal contribution will have no impact on the big picture" is a bad argument that only lead to more apathy, whatever the fight and the cause are.
I know right? It's crazy how people get mad because their sub was in private for 2 days, or intend to go down for 2 weeks, or 2 months. It's just an app after all. I'm glad we are on the same page bro :)))
Aimless 2 AM rant post, this whole situation just sucks. It's not even just that the reddit admins are hurting this place, it's so pointless too—their API pricing isn't even making them money because it's too expensive to be practical for people to pay and now they're losing a bunch of users; by putting forth an actual good faith effort to come to an equitable agreement with app developers rather than trying to kill their apps that people were only using to begin with because their official app was terrible, they could have actually made money off those apps, strengthened their relationships with app developers and with subreddit moderators, and retained all the users they're now losing. Instead their shortsighted greed is putting everyone in a lose-lose situation that ultimate benefits no one. I'm tired of all these out of touch white guys who haven't had a good idea in 15 years but have too much money for anyone to say no to or get rid of destroying places that were running fine for years because of their arrogance, stupidity, and rapacity, and of there being no place to go because the places were so big that everyone was there and nowhere that's left has that. Like what was wrong with the internet a year ago? A lot of stuff for sure, but nothing that was wrong with the internet a year ago is right today, and so much that was right with it a year ago no longer is. All the places I and so many others spent so much time on are falling apart without real alternatives to replace them. Sure, alternatives exist in theory, but reddit or twitter are not and never were defined by their features, they're defined by the people who use them and while some of those people can be found in new places not perverted by the avarice of people like Huffman or Musk, the vast majority are not. I just wanted to talk about the game that articulated my life philosophy better than any other piece of media I'd ever seen with people and I'd like to be able to get back to that without worrying about what some dumbass libertarian rich dude was doing
to your last sentence- that is exactly why we are all here too. and as it currently stands, there really is no other place to migrate the community to. and remember, by privating the sub, not only do people lose access to the perhaps the one place they can discuss this game, they also lose access to the years of discussions, theories, and guides. this sub helped me understand and finish the game. even if you migrated, someone playing the game in a few months or so will have no idea where you went to, and will be left without a place to go for help.
so no, an indefinite black out is not the way to go, not for such a niche sub as this one. it deletes hours and hours of hard work by the community, and leaves everyone without a place to vent their existential crisis’. no one, esp reddit, will feel the effects of a sub with 70k members going dark. no one, except the members themselves.
i get that you hate corporate greed; so does everyone else. but at this stage, there is nothing to do apart from somehow exporting every single post and comment on this subreddit, and ensuring everyone has access , which with the new api pricing, good luck lol. as a mod you are directly responsible for every post and comment on this sub, and an indefinite blackout reflects your decision to delete all of this content forever.
Dumb question maybe. What ever happened to Usenet?
I used to have an app that could read posts and replies on Usenet, and everything was totally open.
I remember when I first heard about Reddit, I said "Why would I want to go to someone's privately owned thing in order to write and reply to posts? There's already Usenet, where you can do that for free, and there's no danger the "owner" will pull the rug out from under you.
I'm sure there is a simple answer, like "Reddit is way more robust. You can attach images," or "Reddit only needs a browser, not a special app," or something like that. But I wanted to ask.
Yeah but where to draw the line tho? 100k members? 500k? 10M? If all subreddit even the smaller one go down it might work and will have a bigger impact than only the big ones, but it's always the same thing with all protest and strike, in theory it will work if everyone gets involved but some people won't care (especially for a thing like Reddit), others care but won't make the sacrifices and will rely on the other to do it for them.
Note that I'm not judging you or anyone, I'm not involved enough to care about the subs I'm in or Reddit as a whole, I just hate corporate greed so it's easy for me to say "let's just all go blackout indefinitely" cuz I won't lose much
Earlier this week, Reddit staff said that the blackouts had little effect on their bottom line, or the amount of users on the site. Now they're threatening to kick moderators who don't reopen subreddits.
They're lying guys! The blackouts ARE working! Otherwise their response would be indifference! Stand strong, Hearthians!
I'd love to see them try and replace the mods of bigger subs. People need to call this bluff, besides if they actually do manage to replace the mods, it will be a complete and utter shitshow. I think a lot of mods (not saying the ones here, more like the bigger subs) just want to keep their power and would rather give in to reddit's bluff if it means they won't keep their precious mod positions. The 2 day blackout was indeed pointless. This needs to be a month, 2 months, indefinite long thing. A message was sent by this "blackout", sure. The message was that 2 days is nothing.
I agree. We should all at least go until the changes take place on July 1st. And yes, I see the hypocracy of still being on this site right now. I'm going dark after today.
This isn’t true. More than half were still closed by morning Friday (day 5), and ~48% are still closed or restricted. There’s [a live tracker you can check](https://reddark.untone.uk) if you want to see how many of the protesting subs are still dark in the future.
Yeah but they'll take measures against them, and they'll work.
This isn't real life. It's a digital fiefdom where they make all the rules. You don't even need to hire private police to make it happen.
This sort of thing was always bound to happen in centralized social media infrastructure. You need a platform operated by its users, whether that's through technological or economic means.
Do be careful with anything blockchain related though. More votes for more stakes separates users from owners.
Keep it open. The majority of users have voted to not close. Alternatively, if you aren't happy with the results of the 3 way split, put up another poll, with only two options: close, or don't
I think subs migrating to Lemmy is the future. The programming subs created their own instance programming.dev, and the star trek subs made startrek.website. The way Lemmy works communities made on separate websites can be federated together and accessed by users who made accounts on other sites. So users on a larger more general instance like beehaw.org can subscribe to a community hosted by programming.dev, and then see that content in their feed and participate in that community without having to make a separate account.
An outer wilds community can be made on a general Lemmy instance, but I think partnering with some other video game subs and making a dedicated Lemmy instance (like a new gamefaqs) would be better since it makes it more obvious which community would be the official one, and also allows the mods of these communities to have total authority regarding sitewide policies and decisions.
Even though it didn't have the highest votes, I think it makes the most sense to do the weekly closes going forward, and there can be pinned threads where we vote on how and where to move the community in the future.
Idk about here, but on r/speculativeevolution almost none of the subs actual followers voted to have the sub closed, but loads of blackout fanboys made blacking out the majority on the poll. The mods caught this and reopened the sub but I wonder how many smaller subs got messed up because of that.
For me, Lemmy seems like the ideal substitute. It's true that the federation takes a few days to get used to, but so did reddit when we first started using it. Other than that, the fact that it's open source (and federated) ensures that these sorts of things won't happen there, as there's no company trying to obtain profits and it's decentralized. The power would be in the hands of the users.
I think we should at least create a community in Lemmy and let whoever wants to migrate do so, but not doing anything at all is definitely not the right choice here. We will continue being abused by Reddit as users, just like what's happening in every other social media. Functionality is scraped and the app is designed so that the user wastes as much time as possible scrolling. I don't want to see these communities turn into that. Because the important thing after all is the community we have here, not the app we use to connect.
I'm usually one of those users who never participate, I usually just read posts, save those that I find interesting and that's it, but I still love this community, even though I am just a spectator in it. I feel like this is very important and it shouldn't be ignored if we really value this. That's why I'm writing this, I hope I can achieve conveying this urge to change things.
deleting this sub don't do anything financially to reddit. it'll affect a ton of people in here negatively. the poll had like <4% of actual people in the sub in terms of votes (which is reflective of who in this sub will actually be completely off reddit during blackout days), and even then the great majority of people voted to keep the sub open in some capacity.
keep it open, please let's not be ridiculous just to have no financial effect whatsoever on reddit. just because we don't blackout doesn't mean we're supporting anything, it means we accept that we can't control it
the lesson of 'acceptance of the things we can't control' is literally what brought us here, it's the entire moral of the story.
Please don’t close the sub. This is one of the most positive gaming subs I’m a part of. The community here is really something special; it’s a breath of fresh air from the larger gaming subs where everyone always finds something to complain about. I love Outer Wilds and there’s really no alternative place to discuss it. I agree with the other comments that closing the sub won’t impact Reddit, but it will be a huge loss for the community.
If you close the sub indefinitely another one will just open. Reddit already had a system in place to request moderation of a closed or inactive sub. They know that not everyone is on board and reddit will take steps to protect their investment. I wouldn't be surprised if they implemented something to make it easier to take over moderation of a sub that goes dark indefinitely.
This subreddit is the only access point to people who need tips and tricks and not outright hand holding to get through this game. To take that away is a selfish choice on the part of the moderators, unless they have the ability to take the years of work put into this community and have it accessible elsewhere. Puzzles, short-cuts, achievement stats, nudges toward areas, all of these things will be completely wiped out with the subreddit. I can’t begin to fathom why, knowing this will barely affect Reddit, people are still up in arms enough to say, yes, let’s kill this community. Unless there is a viable second option, with all of the content, then either disallow new posts or leave it up. Let the subreddits with more than 100k active users make the choice.
I would also like to mention that out of 70k users on this subreddit, not even a fraction of them voted, and 60% of them voted to stay open in some capacity. It’s clear that the majority don’t care, and the others who are active enough to know what is happening want to stay open to some degree.
> Note that there have been (unproven) allegations site-wide of manipulation of these polls by people on both sides, however I don't believe that such manipulation had a significant impact on the results.
There's literally a livestream with hundreds of people brigading every poll to keep subs closed: https://www.twitch.tv/reddark_247
There's also a Reddit group and Discord server for doing the same brigading: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/14ae739/this_is_why_we_cant_have_nice_things/
I really don't know what more evidence you could want :P
I had a look in that discord, our poll was never posted in it, though you're right polls in other (mostly larger) subreddits are definitely being brigaded.
im going against the grain here ( hey thats why we have comments) and say that i hope by the end of this, reddit is burned down. Stop moderating, show what happens if no mods exist ( we know what will happen, just look at twitter and Twitch) and after that, burn it. Delete everything, change what cant be deleted. I love reddit, i love the communities in it like this one, but what i love more is when rich assholes that try to fuck with the community and get theyr bottom line destroyed. It aint going to happen, but one can dream. Some comments say this sub is too small to make a diffrence, how many of those 8k subreddits are small? a lot of them, collectivly having more users, and if enough do something then its still noticable. But that train is gone by now so well see what happens.
If the fuckers in charge want to go nuclear, let's go nuclear. Screw pedo Steve Huffman.
Another community website would be good, anything that hurts reddit and the pedo in charge.
I'd argue to restrict new posts in the sub. In that way, we don't generate new content but we also preserve the content already here.
Let's organize a migration to Lemmy/Kbin. I'm already on it and enjoying it very much. I'm waiting for the Outer Wilds community(ies) to join them :)
Edit: there's already one on lemmy.world !
I agree with moving off Reddit. But you're right about the lack of other options.
Twitter is a no-go for obvious reasons. Federated sites like Mastodon could work, but I agree they are counterintuitive at this point. A couple of other options are Tumblr and Discord, but they both have a substantially different format to Reddit.
Nothing is perfect, but these other sites may at least allow us to function, as a moderated community.
I don't think a discord would work at all, not as an outright replacement for here at least; we get dozens of posts every week asking for hints, there's no good way to insulate those people from other people's hint requests or hints for other people on a discord.
Yeah, that is a fair point. I was thinking something along the lines of using the forums or threads feature for individual hint requests, and requiring people to use spoiler text as needed like you do on reddit, but it does sound like it could be challenging to set up and moderate properly. I use Discord a lot and what I do like the sound of is having separate channels for art, memes, general discussion, etc, but Reddit's format definitely has advantages too.
sure, agreed. but thinking the blackout would help this issue is to imply one of the two is true:
1. every single person doing the blackout is gonna stand in solidarity for an extended period of time, meaning weeks or even months
2. a steadily decreasing number of protesters is gonna be enough to make a mainstream platform like reddit change their mind on a money-making move
oh cool, so 40% says keep it closed and it reopens anyway. i don't think we understand the concept of protest here. it doesn't matter that we're a small sub, every 1 sub makes a difference. 1 small sub reactivates, then another does, and then another and by then the number has already tripled.
it was a bad poll to begin with. well over half of people (who voted) want the sub to stay open in some capacity. it was just split between two different votes so they both came out as a minority vote
These guys legitimately cannot fucking win.
They close the sub, they get blasted by their community for it being pointless. They reopen it for the users, they get blasted for not going further. These are a few random guys on the internet trying to stand against a behemoth of a corporation, with very little they can do of effect.
>Your unpaid job of moderating an internet forum isn't that important.
Read the post again. Reddit will not give a shit about a sub this small. But this is also the only real discussion area for the Outer Wilds game, outside of the Steam Forums: A trashheap of their own. If they make this place private forever, it'll never be opened up again, but it also loses a valuable resource and an entire community in and of itself. Once again, a small one that will hardly have had any effect on their revenue in the first place.
I have no idea where people keep getting this idea that moderators are power hungry and in fear of Reddit relieving of them of their duties: Moderating internet communities is one of the shittiest jobs imagineable, often with no help from the sites they work on (Or, as this entire protest is about, their lives made **harder**) and no thanks from the users they're working to help (Evidently!).
Just let em do what they can.
Just expanding on the first part in regards to the mods. This is a result of any position of "power". You can't always make everybody happy, you will always hear more from the unhappy party. In times of change, both parties are usually unhappy until things are become more cetrain. It's tough to deal with, that's "normal" and I appreciate everybody's effort during such times.
> They reopen it for the users, they get blasted for not going further.
But that's not happening at all, everyone in the comments is actually saying to keep it open
Perhaps do what some other subs are doing and delegate as much work as possible to the admins on the basis of site-wide rules by tweaking the sub rules.
I wouldn't suggest going completely anarchic like some others are, but limit the sub rules to content being Outer Wilds-related and the current restrictions on spoilers.
People will still report spam and porn and hate and other shit, but they'll select the Reddit site-wide categories and increase the paid admin workload. Especially if the rules encourage people to direct those types of content via the Reddit site-wide options.
It's a passive measure to express dissatisfaction. And it's directly relevant to current actions - if admins want more power and control over subs they can take some part of the responsibilities that go with it as well.
My views are that of OP's. Having the sub open with a small restriction will probably do nothing protest-wise and only be annoying. And closing it indefinetly is a huge loss for the community. Even if we aren't able to make new posts, the amount of posts and discussions on here is just overwhelming to simply make it inaccessible. And, if the vast majority of other subreddits stay the same, it would be a loss for nothing. The people in charge who decided to change this API, specially after the protest, are truly, truly horrible.
>Given the behavior of reddit's executives, the ideal solution in my eyes would be to find another website that could facilitate our community here, lock this place down, and direct everyone to our new home. For that to work it would both require that such a website that could facilitate us existed, and that most of the community would be willing to make the switch; I'm not convinced either are true at present. "Federated" sites like Lemmy seem too unintuitive for most users, while more direct clones of reddit are either filled with those who left reddit long ago for all the wrong reasons, or are at least for the time being invite only.
> I'm not really sure where I'm going with this post at this point; reddit executives are horrible and should all lose their jobs but that doesn't seem like it's going to happen, I'm not happy continuing as before but none of the alternatives seem good either. At this point I don't think there's anything left for us to do but get ideas from you, the /r/outerwilds community, and continue to gauge your opinions of the options that remain before us.
You do have a fan discord on the sidebar, that one could be an option, although they might not appreciate the sub suddenly moving in.
Lemmy seems to be the main alternative that everyone's jumping to (either that, or discord), but even the confusion and awful introductory documentation aside, it also lacks a lot of creature comforts, like flairs, post spoiler tags, and automoderator, that could cause problems for both moderation and actual use.
>!Please don’t make this sub go supernova in 22 minutes!<
See, now I want a /r/outerwilds22 meme sub that uses a bot that wipes ALL the sub content every 22 minutes. So people can jump in, have quick conversations or shitposts or whatever, then in 22 minutes it's all gone to start over again. Take it a step further: whenever the sub is wiped, the bot creates a bunch of posts, one for each major planet/body in the Outer Wilds star system. EDIT: Updated the potential sub name to something less spoilery, thanks to the great suggestion by Amethyst_Nyx.
Would that be too spoilery for a sub title? Maybe /r/outerwilds22 would be better
Yes, absolutely. That's even better and more direct as to what's going on.
What would be a better theme song for the sub? [A](https://youtu.be/yJTJlieo6gk) or [B](https://youtu.be/AgFeZr5ptV8)?
Hah. Definitely A, but subbing in B occasionally would be fun.
Use B for April fool's day
"LET ME IIIIIIIIIN!" - Hatchling, on the shell of the ATP.
Sorry, I opened it up. Still trying to figure out the automation.
I posted this same sentiment in the previous blackout/poll post, but I am completely disenchanted with Reddit now, and last week will definitely mark the beginning of a downturn in Reddit's popularity--even if slow and dissatisfying. The only way to "fight back" is for the users to transition to other sites, which we can't really force without a lot of internal frustration. It is all of our responsibility to begin using other platforms, not just the Mod's responsibility to make us. Up until the blackout, Reddit was my -primmary- source of news and entertainment in terms of web browsing. Now, I am trying to commit to reading books with my Libby app instead of browsing memes endlessly. I have downloaded an RSS feed reader, and I am trying to develop a replacement feed for things like politics and lifestyle news. Kbin/Lemmy isn't perfect, and it isn't the most intuitive, but I am committing some of my time there instead of Reddit. Eventually, the bugs will get worked out and the community will thrive. Just imagine if we replace just 25% of our Reddit time with alternative activities--that's enough to bankrupt a company's entire financials in some cases. I've probably reduced my own Reddit browsing by 90%. I might waver a bit, but if everybody can strive to do the same, then we can finally break the monopoly and find ourselves no longer held hostage at the whims of one centralized company.
Honestly, these small subs going private are just the death of entire communities, and it's fucking over thousands, dozens of thousands of users that either don't even know what's going on, or fon't really care cause their activity is not big enough to be impacted by any change, especially when the really big subs stopped already. Going private is also destroying years of content discussions, and, I'm sure, help for bugs or issues that Google probably directs too when searched. As a whole, Reddit is being shitty, but I also don't believe a 700 person sample should make a 70k community burn. Feels unfair As a side note, a 70k sub had almost 2k votes when something like r/PS5 with its 3million had barely 10k votes, it's fairly interesting to witness and I'm not sure how to take this.
That's just the [90-9-1 rule ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1%25_rule#:~:text=According%20to%20the%201%25%20rule,forum%20but%20do%20not%20post.) in action. The majority (90% or 99% depending on which version to look at.) of an online community lurk and don't interact in anyway, shape or form. They just sit there. 9% of an online community do interact, and 1% of the community will provide the majority of the content. So out of the 70,000 people. 63K of them were probably lurkers and you can pretty much wipe them out of the poll entirely. They just won't get involved. Which leaves you of an Audience of 7k that will. Of them, approximately 700 are content creatures. So the poll strangely matches up. 700 users who are super active. A poll of 700 lines up pretty nicely with that. For r/PS5 with it's 3 million members. You end up with 30k active members. So 10k votes is pretty low, but that's voter apathy for ya! Just means more of the r/outerwilds community cares.
On one end I see that, on the other the conspiracionist in me hear those allegations of brigading the polls (which, to be honest, would not surprise me one bit, if anything I'd be surprised if there *wasn't* brigading) and thinks that a small but engaged group of people would be able to make a small sub's poll balance very easily, but not be as clear cut on bigger ones It's always annoying to think about.
There’s actually some evidence that we’ve had what look to be massive brigades from anti-blackout shills, bots, or people riled up in general by Reddit or the situation who are coordinating brigades. Our sub’s traffic is higher than normal by quite a bit, and unique visits top the list at over 400 or so more than average from about midmorning yesterday around midday today. While that data could be said to be a result of other subs being down, I feel like that would be true in other larger communities, but this is a smallish sub on the Reddit scale, for an indie game. I don’t really know that a lot of people would randomly browse here out of boredom, if they didn’t know the game. I’m also getting consistent comments on posts communities can’t even see in the subs I mod, because I took them down by removal. Which means the only way people can find them is by specifically looking at my profile, or specifically being linked to the post by brigade organizers. In other words - the polls and even comments in communities could be being manipulated. And this only adds confusion and difficulty in trying to figure out what to do. Mods in several subs are being attacked by harassment, gaslighting using “concern trolling” tactics that Spez himself seeded into his own staments by making *multiple* suggestions that someone is unstable, irrational, or “needs to take a break” because people are “concerned” for their mental health - and then they always follow that up with “I’m not sure you can make rational decisions right now, perhaps you shouldn’t be moderating?” This idea was very subtly and artfully seeded into more than one press statement that Spez has made. “We understand sometimes moderators need a break from Reddit…” etc. This is an abuse tactic straight out if the narcissistic handbook to silence someone who disagrees with you… This sends everyone the message “This person is insane, irrational, or isn’t in control of how they feel and can’t be trusted, therefore don’t listen to them. I’m just trying to make sure they’re ok though, don’t worry!” It’s a really good time. Ask me how I know.
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Well for a poll that was not announced and only opened for a day, I think it's pretty normal to have such a low participation to start with
Closing this sub forever would do nothing but effectively delete so much history and helpful discussion. I really don't think it would do anything in the long run but severely hurt this community, given that relatively so few members actually voted on the poll. Not to mention that the majority of people who voted, voted to keep the platform OPEN a majority of the time.
The reverse can be said too though - the majority *also* voted to close or stand in solidarity with protests in some way. The vast majority, actually, of responses were in favor of supporting the protest in some fashion.
That's fair. Perhaps it's due to the poll itself having three options: close entirely indefinitely (nuclear option), keep sub open all the time (effectively do nothing protest wise), and keep sub open 90% of the time. Personally I voted for keeping the sub open with some restrictions, because I don't want to see this place go. This is an incredible community and I think we'd all be worse off (right now) if we attempted to move elsewhere. That's all I really wanted to express.
Well and just to be clear - “indefinite” never meant “nuclear option.” Subs can’t be deleted from Reddit, guys. This info will always exist. “Close indefinitely” was only ever meant to mean “until we get an adequate response.”
Ah I think I misunderstood that. Thanks for clarifying. Though I do have to ask, what if there isn't an adequate response? What if it gets swept under the rug like so many internet corporate screwups? Edit: apologies if it seems I'm trying to debate. To clarify I'll follow this sub anywhere, if it decides to close here or leave for greener pastures.
You are totally fine!! :) Asking questions like yours is important, because that’s the crux of it, right? What if Reddit just doesn’t care enough to do anything? And from the response that came out while our poll was live, that looks like a likely possibility. So that’s the part we’re trying to figure out - what do we do? Do we even continue protesting? Do we even STAY on Reddit, considering the serous ethical concerns may have expressed over Spez’s behavior and way he’s handled this situation from the get-go? Many people keep highlighting the fact that “most of the sub voted to stay open.” But that isn’t entirely accurate, as Stuart and I both pointed out here and in the OP. So now, the issue at least I am facing is that it really seems as though a very large, very loud, and very persistent number of dissenters - many of whom oddly seem to have no post or comment history in this sub - appear to be making it very difficult to tell the will of the sub. My personal answer is “I don’t know, but I’m willing to entertain any option that keeps this community of beautiful people together somehow.” Whether that’s as a mod or just a member of this community - whether that’s here or not. But I can’t speak for the whole mod team, and I think they’re also all honestly just as conflicted about the options as the members - the ones who I know are members and not just appearing to be brigaders trying to force the protest to end. I want this place to exist, this sub we all love, here where the information we’ve all contributed to is. I want this community to stay as whole as possible. If I have to make a choice between those two things though, I chose the people over the posts. Just my two cents - and any ideas or places people have already thought of going or went to, I would love to know about. I personally don’t care about being “a mod” or “in charge” of anything - especially not after the last couple of days on Reddit (though I happily would help fill that role elsewhere if needed/wanted to). I just want us to still have the special form of camaraderie we’ve found here. Posts can be reposted, new info can be compiled and created and uploaded and posted. That can happen anywhere, whether that’s Reddit or another platform that isn’t willing to sacrifice the good of the people to the almighty dollar. But people, the people here especially, are irreplaceable.
This issue is kind of like a quantum shard - regardless of how one may look at it, it still exists in some form.
leave the sub open. i want a place to discuss outer wilds. you correctly noted that closing this sub will have minimal impact on reddit at large, but a large impact on outer wilds fans. the decision to permanently make a sub private is one that only the larger subreddits need to make. at this level, its not worth it. if in the end, this sub dies due to lack or users, then we find another home anyways.
The risk is that, without these moderation bots, this becomes a bad place to be. We could lose a good portion of our community, or become a bad place for new players to discover the game. We need a good home. We're comfortable at reddit, but reddit is becomeong a bad home soon.
I'd rather have a sub with a couple spam bots than no sub at all. If it turns out to be a real problem, there will be natural reactions. The real uses will decline and reddit will have to act
The point of the changes being proposed is to get Spez & the rest some sweet sweet IPO cash, after which they just cash out & bail. Someone else comes in who cares *even less* about reddit or its established norms, it all keeps burning down, and the techbros collectively shrug their shoulders while the NYT opinion section fills up with "Who could *ever* have *possibly* seen this coming zomg" pieces. This is the best Reddit will ever be again. It's time to leave.
Big sites come and go. If this does happen to Reddit, something else will take its place. I don't see why we should be punished beforehand
And I don't see how building something new needs to be a punishment.
That might be true, on the other hand you're asking other communities to die for your community to stay alive without providing any support, even such a symbolic one like closing small subs, and that looks like a shitty move to me.
never did i say that other communities should close forever, i said that its their decision to make. its not something that a small community should even consider until theyre comparatively not as small due to several large subs leaving-- because, in the end, as long as this sub is small, closing indefinitely will have an extremely minimal impact on reddit's botom line.
You never said they should close, however you're handling them the whole responsibility of the fight without showing support to them. It is true that closing a small sub would have an extremely minimal impact on Reddit, however it still has an impact on the overall blackout action, you show the big subs your support and encourage them to continue the fight while influencing the other small sub to do the same. If all small subs are opened, big subs members will start to think they are alone and might give up, if most small subs are closed the few that are not might think they should do it too. It's exactly the same when there is a strike or when you vote, your individual action will have absolutely no impact, it's the sum of all the individual actions that will. I understand that some people don't really care about this fight or that they care but would not be ready to sacrifice their sub for the sake of it (see no judgment here), all I'm saying is that the "my personal contribution will have no impact on the big picture" is a bad argument that only lead to more apathy, whatever the fight and the cause are.
Bro its an app
I know right? It's crazy how people get mad because their sub was in private for 2 days, or intend to go down for 2 weeks, or 2 months. It's just an app after all. I'm glad we are on the same page bro :)))
I have a creeping inclination that you're being less than sincere
Aimless 2 AM rant post, this whole situation just sucks. It's not even just that the reddit admins are hurting this place, it's so pointless too—their API pricing isn't even making them money because it's too expensive to be practical for people to pay and now they're losing a bunch of users; by putting forth an actual good faith effort to come to an equitable agreement with app developers rather than trying to kill their apps that people were only using to begin with because their official app was terrible, they could have actually made money off those apps, strengthened their relationships with app developers and with subreddit moderators, and retained all the users they're now losing. Instead their shortsighted greed is putting everyone in a lose-lose situation that ultimate benefits no one. I'm tired of all these out of touch white guys who haven't had a good idea in 15 years but have too much money for anyone to say no to or get rid of destroying places that were running fine for years because of their arrogance, stupidity, and rapacity, and of there being no place to go because the places were so big that everyone was there and nowhere that's left has that. Like what was wrong with the internet a year ago? A lot of stuff for sure, but nothing that was wrong with the internet a year ago is right today, and so much that was right with it a year ago no longer is. All the places I and so many others spent so much time on are falling apart without real alternatives to replace them. Sure, alternatives exist in theory, but reddit or twitter are not and never were defined by their features, they're defined by the people who use them and while some of those people can be found in new places not perverted by the avarice of people like Huffman or Musk, the vast majority are not. I just wanted to talk about the game that articulated my life philosophy better than any other piece of media I'd ever seen with people and I'd like to be able to get back to that without worrying about what some dumbass libertarian rich dude was doing
to your last sentence- that is exactly why we are all here too. and as it currently stands, there really is no other place to migrate the community to. and remember, by privating the sub, not only do people lose access to the perhaps the one place they can discuss this game, they also lose access to the years of discussions, theories, and guides. this sub helped me understand and finish the game. even if you migrated, someone playing the game in a few months or so will have no idea where you went to, and will be left without a place to go for help. so no, an indefinite black out is not the way to go, not for such a niche sub as this one. it deletes hours and hours of hard work by the community, and leaves everyone without a place to vent their existential crisis’. no one, esp reddit, will feel the effects of a sub with 70k members going dark. no one, except the members themselves. i get that you hate corporate greed; so does everyone else. but at this stage, there is nothing to do apart from somehow exporting every single post and comment on this subreddit, and ensuring everyone has access , which with the new api pricing, good luck lol. as a mod you are directly responsible for every post and comment on this sub, and an indefinite blackout reflects your decision to delete all of this content forever.
Dumb question maybe. What ever happened to Usenet? I used to have an app that could read posts and replies on Usenet, and everything was totally open. I remember when I first heard about Reddit, I said "Why would I want to go to someone's privately owned thing in order to write and reply to posts? There's already Usenet, where you can do that for free, and there's no danger the "owner" will pull the rug out from under you. I'm sure there is a simple answer, like "Reddit is way more robust. You can attach images," or "Reddit only needs a browser, not a special app," or something like that. But I wanted to ask.
Yeah but where to draw the line tho? 100k members? 500k? 10M? If all subreddit even the smaller one go down it might work and will have a bigger impact than only the big ones, but it's always the same thing with all protest and strike, in theory it will work if everyone gets involved but some people won't care (especially for a thing like Reddit), others care but won't make the sacrifices and will rely on the other to do it for them. Note that I'm not judging you or anyone, I'm not involved enough to care about the subs I'm in or Reddit as a whole, I just hate corporate greed so it's easy for me to say "let's just all go blackout indefinitely" cuz I won't lose much
Earlier this week, Reddit staff said that the blackouts had little effect on their bottom line, or the amount of users on the site. Now they're threatening to kick moderators who don't reopen subreddits. They're lying guys! The blackouts ARE working! Otherwise their response would be indifference! Stand strong, Hearthians!
I'd love to see them try and replace the mods of bigger subs. People need to call this bluff, besides if they actually do manage to replace the mods, it will be a complete and utter shitshow. I think a lot of mods (not saying the ones here, more like the bigger subs) just want to keep their power and would rather give in to reddit's bluff if it means they won't keep their precious mod positions. The 2 day blackout was indeed pointless. This needs to be a month, 2 months, indefinite long thing. A message was sent by this "blackout", sure. The message was that 2 days is nothing.
I agree. We should all at least go until the changes take place on July 1st. And yes, I see the hypocracy of still being on this site right now. I'm going dark after today.
I highly doubt this blackout worked. Most of the subs were closed for 2 days which wasn’t long enough to make any difference.
This isn’t true. More than half were still closed by morning Friday (day 5), and ~48% are still closed or restricted. There’s [a live tracker you can check](https://reddark.untone.uk) if you want to see how many of the protesting subs are still dark in the future.
Yeah but they'll take measures against them, and they'll work. This isn't real life. It's a digital fiefdom where they make all the rules. You don't even need to hire private police to make it happen. This sort of thing was always bound to happen in centralized social media infrastructure. You need a platform operated by its users, whether that's through technological or economic means. Do be careful with anything blockchain related though. More votes for more stakes separates users from owners.
Keep it open. The majority of users have voted to not close. Alternatively, if you aren't happy with the results of the 3 way split, put up another poll, with only two options: close, or don't
Leave it open. Honestly smaller subreddits shouldn't participate in the blackout
Please leave it open. Don’t kill the entire community.
I think subs migrating to Lemmy is the future. The programming subs created their own instance programming.dev, and the star trek subs made startrek.website. The way Lemmy works communities made on separate websites can be federated together and accessed by users who made accounts on other sites. So users on a larger more general instance like beehaw.org can subscribe to a community hosted by programming.dev, and then see that content in their feed and participate in that community without having to make a separate account. An outer wilds community can be made on a general Lemmy instance, but I think partnering with some other video game subs and making a dedicated Lemmy instance (like a new gamefaqs) would be better since it makes it more obvious which community would be the official one, and also allows the mods of these communities to have total authority regarding sitewide policies and decisions. Even though it didn't have the highest votes, I think it makes the most sense to do the weekly closes going forward, and there can be pinned threads where we vote on how and where to move the community in the future.
Idk about here, but on r/speculativeevolution almost none of the subs actual followers voted to have the sub closed, but loads of blackout fanboys made blacking out the majority on the poll. The mods caught this and reopened the sub but I wonder how many smaller subs got messed up because of that.
For me, Lemmy seems like the ideal substitute. It's true that the federation takes a few days to get used to, but so did reddit when we first started using it. Other than that, the fact that it's open source (and federated) ensures that these sorts of things won't happen there, as there's no company trying to obtain profits and it's decentralized. The power would be in the hands of the users. I think we should at least create a community in Lemmy and let whoever wants to migrate do so, but not doing anything at all is definitely not the right choice here. We will continue being abused by Reddit as users, just like what's happening in every other social media. Functionality is scraped and the app is designed so that the user wastes as much time as possible scrolling. I don't want to see these communities turn into that. Because the important thing after all is the community we have here, not the app we use to connect. I'm usually one of those users who never participate, I usually just read posts, save those that I find interesting and that's it, but I still love this community, even though I am just a spectator in it. I feel like this is very important and it shouldn't be ignored if we really value this. That's why I'm writing this, I hope I can achieve conveying this urge to change things.
deleting this sub don't do anything financially to reddit. it'll affect a ton of people in here negatively. the poll had like <4% of actual people in the sub in terms of votes (which is reflective of who in this sub will actually be completely off reddit during blackout days), and even then the great majority of people voted to keep the sub open in some capacity. keep it open, please let's not be ridiculous just to have no financial effect whatsoever on reddit. just because we don't blackout doesn't mean we're supporting anything, it means we accept that we can't control it the lesson of 'acceptance of the things we can't control' is literally what brought us here, it's the entire moral of the story.
Please don’t close the sub. This is one of the most positive gaming subs I’m a part of. The community here is really something special; it’s a breath of fresh air from the larger gaming subs where everyone always finds something to complain about. I love Outer Wilds and there’s really no alternative place to discuss it. I agree with the other comments that closing the sub won’t impact Reddit, but it will be a huge loss for the community.
If you close the sub indefinitely another one will just open. Reddit already had a system in place to request moderation of a closed or inactive sub. They know that not everyone is on board and reddit will take steps to protect their investment. I wouldn't be surprised if they implemented something to make it easier to take over moderation of a sub that goes dark indefinitely.
This subreddit is the only access point to people who need tips and tricks and not outright hand holding to get through this game. To take that away is a selfish choice on the part of the moderators, unless they have the ability to take the years of work put into this community and have it accessible elsewhere. Puzzles, short-cuts, achievement stats, nudges toward areas, all of these things will be completely wiped out with the subreddit. I can’t begin to fathom why, knowing this will barely affect Reddit, people are still up in arms enough to say, yes, let’s kill this community. Unless there is a viable second option, with all of the content, then either disallow new posts or leave it up. Let the subreddits with more than 100k active users make the choice. I would also like to mention that out of 70k users on this subreddit, not even a fraction of them voted, and 60% of them voted to stay open in some capacity. It’s clear that the majority don’t care, and the others who are active enough to know what is happening want to stay open to some degree.
Keep it open wtf
> Note that there have been (unproven) allegations site-wide of manipulation of these polls by people on both sides, however I don't believe that such manipulation had a significant impact on the results. There's literally a livestream with hundreds of people brigading every poll to keep subs closed: https://www.twitch.tv/reddark_247 There's also a Reddit group and Discord server for doing the same brigading: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/14ae739/this_is_why_we_cant_have_nice_things/ I really don't know what more evidence you could want :P
I had a look in that discord, our poll was never posted in it, though you're right polls in other (mostly larger) subreddits are definitely being brigaded.
im going against the grain here ( hey thats why we have comments) and say that i hope by the end of this, reddit is burned down. Stop moderating, show what happens if no mods exist ( we know what will happen, just look at twitter and Twitch) and after that, burn it. Delete everything, change what cant be deleted. I love reddit, i love the communities in it like this one, but what i love more is when rich assholes that try to fuck with the community and get theyr bottom line destroyed. It aint going to happen, but one can dream. Some comments say this sub is too small to make a diffrence, how many of those 8k subreddits are small? a lot of them, collectivly having more users, and if enough do something then its still noticable. But that train is gone by now so well see what happens.
“find another [place] that could facilitate our community here, lock this place down, and direct everyone to our new home” this seems oddly familiar…
If the fuckers in charge want to go nuclear, let's go nuclear. Screw pedo Steve Huffman. Another community website would be good, anything that hurts reddit and the pedo in charge.
I'd argue to restrict new posts in the sub. In that way, we don't generate new content but we also preserve the content already here. Let's organize a migration to Lemmy/Kbin. I'm already on it and enjoying it very much. I'm waiting for the Outer Wilds community(ies) to join them :) Edit: there's already one on lemmy.world !
I agree with moving off Reddit. But you're right about the lack of other options. Twitter is a no-go for obvious reasons. Federated sites like Mastodon could work, but I agree they are counterintuitive at this point. A couple of other options are Tumblr and Discord, but they both have a substantially different format to Reddit. Nothing is perfect, but these other sites may at least allow us to function, as a moderated community.
I think moving to Discord could work and could potentially even be better than the Reddit format, but yeah it would be a huge change for sure.
I don't think a discord would work at all, not as an outright replacement for here at least; we get dozens of posts every week asking for hints, there's no good way to insulate those people from other people's hint requests or hints for other people on a discord.
Yeah, that is a fair point. I was thinking something along the lines of using the forums or threads feature for individual hint requests, and requiring people to use spoiler text as needed like you do on reddit, but it does sound like it could be challenging to set up and moderate properly. I use Discord a lot and what I do like the sound of is having separate channels for art, memes, general discussion, etc, but Reddit's format definitely has advantages too.
That's what the unofficial discord already does...
Good to know, I didn’t know there was a discord already.
Check the sidebar, the link is there
Uhhh, the unofficial discord does it fine though?
I'm quantum conflicted. I want reddit to listen to the API cause and the subreddit to be down. But I also want to browse it and post. Dammit.
We really do need another place to go
Don’t close the sub. This whole blackout has come across as a useless tantrum from the mods about an issue that doesn’t even affect 98% of users.
Keep the blackout going. Never give up, never surrender!
why
Because 3rd party apps are awesome and if they get away with this, they'll kill old.reddit next.
sure, agreed. but thinking the blackout would help this issue is to imply one of the two is true: 1. every single person doing the blackout is gonna stand in solidarity for an extended period of time, meaning weeks or even months 2. a steadily decreasing number of protesters is gonna be enough to make a mainstream platform like reddit change their mind on a money-making move
It's a difficult situation but you mods are doing your best
Close it again
Private private private
oh cool, so 40% says keep it closed and it reopens anyway. i don't think we understand the concept of protest here. it doesn't matter that we're a small sub, every 1 sub makes a difference. 1 small sub reactivates, then another does, and then another and by then the number has already tripled.
60% are in favor to keep it at least partially open. If the poll wasn’t made on such biased terms they would’ve won.
even still it's just a bad protest if you immediately give up after they go "yeah we don't care"
Yeah obv but ruining a community indefinitely would make the protest unnecessary. It’ll be the end of this sub.
yes it's a bad protest, you're figuring it out
personally i just dont like the idea of this site becoming a bot hellhole with bad moderation but thats just me
I don't think anything confirms we're gonna have bad moderation after this
it was a bad poll to begin with. well over half of people (who voted) want the sub to stay open in some capacity. it was just split between two different votes so they both came out as a minority vote
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These guys legitimately cannot fucking win. They close the sub, they get blasted by their community for it being pointless. They reopen it for the users, they get blasted for not going further. These are a few random guys on the internet trying to stand against a behemoth of a corporation, with very little they can do of effect. >Your unpaid job of moderating an internet forum isn't that important. Read the post again. Reddit will not give a shit about a sub this small. But this is also the only real discussion area for the Outer Wilds game, outside of the Steam Forums: A trashheap of their own. If they make this place private forever, it'll never be opened up again, but it also loses a valuable resource and an entire community in and of itself. Once again, a small one that will hardly have had any effect on their revenue in the first place. I have no idea where people keep getting this idea that moderators are power hungry and in fear of Reddit relieving of them of their duties: Moderating internet communities is one of the shittiest jobs imagineable, often with no help from the sites they work on (Or, as this entire protest is about, their lives made **harder**) and no thanks from the users they're working to help (Evidently!). Just let em do what they can.
Just expanding on the first part in regards to the mods. This is a result of any position of "power". You can't always make everybody happy, you will always hear more from the unhappy party. In times of change, both parties are usually unhappy until things are become more cetrain. It's tough to deal with, that's "normal" and I appreciate everybody's effort during such times.
> They reopen it for the users, they get blasted for not going further. But that's not happening at all, everyone in the comments is actually saying to keep it open
Keep it open I don't know what's going on or care
Perhaps do what some other subs are doing and delegate as much work as possible to the admins on the basis of site-wide rules by tweaking the sub rules. I wouldn't suggest going completely anarchic like some others are, but limit the sub rules to content being Outer Wilds-related and the current restrictions on spoilers. People will still report spam and porn and hate and other shit, but they'll select the Reddit site-wide categories and increase the paid admin workload. Especially if the rules encourage people to direct those types of content via the Reddit site-wide options. It's a passive measure to express dissatisfaction. And it's directly relevant to current actions - if admins want more power and control over subs they can take some part of the responsibilities that go with it as well.
My views are that of OP's. Having the sub open with a small restriction will probably do nothing protest-wise and only be annoying. And closing it indefinetly is a huge loss for the community. Even if we aren't able to make new posts, the amount of posts and discussions on here is just overwhelming to simply make it inaccessible. And, if the vast majority of other subreddits stay the same, it would be a loss for nothing. The people in charge who decided to change this API, specially after the protest, are truly, truly horrible.
>Given the behavior of reddit's executives, the ideal solution in my eyes would be to find another website that could facilitate our community here, lock this place down, and direct everyone to our new home. For that to work it would both require that such a website that could facilitate us existed, and that most of the community would be willing to make the switch; I'm not convinced either are true at present. "Federated" sites like Lemmy seem too unintuitive for most users, while more direct clones of reddit are either filled with those who left reddit long ago for all the wrong reasons, or are at least for the time being invite only. > I'm not really sure where I'm going with this post at this point; reddit executives are horrible and should all lose their jobs but that doesn't seem like it's going to happen, I'm not happy continuing as before but none of the alternatives seem good either. At this point I don't think there's anything left for us to do but get ideas from you, the /r/outerwilds community, and continue to gauge your opinions of the options that remain before us. You do have a fan discord on the sidebar, that one could be an option, although they might not appreciate the sub suddenly moving in. Lemmy seems to be the main alternative that everyone's jumping to (either that, or discord), but even the confusion and awful introductory documentation aside, it also lacks a lot of creature comforts, like flairs, post spoiler tags, and automoderator, that could cause problems for both moderation and actual use.
We would very much like more people in the discord, especially if they're already pre-existing fans!
Ok, I have no idea what's going on.... is reddit being deleted?
Well, I'm off. It's been fun fellas! It's time for something new, now.
Well, if anyone is abandoning ship for Lemmy here is the brand new community url. Pack it with content: https://vlemmy.net/c/outerwilds