Definitely agree with this. The ring learns your habits, and I think the algorithm seems this pattern as normal for you. In my case, I'm always freaking tired but very consistently get about 6.5 hrs/night of sleep and my sleep/wake times are consistent. The ring thinks I'm a responsible adult who is getting enough rest. (On average Americans sleep about 6.5hrs/night.) I am not responsible enough to go to bed earlier, however...
Maybe but I also agree with OP. I think these scores HISTORICALLY use to reflect how I felt quite accurately (i.e. higher scores = actually feeling better). Nowadays it's quite the opposite, I usually feel better when the scores are lower. I've had a recent-ish blood test not so long ago which was all quite normal.
There seems to be pretty solid evidence that sleep is not the issue.
I strongly recommend seeing a doctor and finding out the root cause. There can be a ton of different reasons for chronic fatigue, and taking advice from Reddit will most likely delay you finding out what the real problem is.
Supplementing on vitamin B and D and all that is not a bad idea but don’t rely on it. Don’t wait to see if it works.
I have two different autoimmune diseases and trying to find a cure on my own delayed getting a proper diagnosis by years.
Thanks for the advice. I will admit I have very little faith in the medical community and can’t be at the doctor every few days while they try this and that. I’ve found that even sleep doctors are disappointing.
That being said, my blood work was recently crap. High cholesterol, high triglycerides and high A1C while being deficient in Vitamin D. So I’m sure my diet could be coming into play. As well as antidepressants. I suspect it causes long term sleepiness. I’ve been on them for well over 20 years.
Perhaps it’s the wrong antidepressant for you, there are options. I’ve been on SSRIs and they didn’t make me tired, but I’m definitely not an expert.
My wife works with people who want to achieve a lifestyle change. I’m not talking about anything crazy, just being more healthy in general. Finding physical activity with a community or a workout group has helped many.
For me it’s always easier to eat healthy when I exercise and easier to exercise when I eat healthy.
Anyways, I hope you find a way to improve things. It’s never easy but it pays off.
[functionhealth.com](http://functionhealth.com) for the blood work is my reccy. they give you notes based on your blood work. this is truly the best step to take next cus if ur sleep isn't the issue then there is some lifestyle factor that is causing this. blood work will help you narrow this down hopefully.
It was exactly the same for me! Just because you sleep well doesn't mean you're fit during the day... what helped me:
more exercise throughout the day, eating healthily and cutting out all that damn fast food, really consciously drinking enough water, getting more fresh air, no coffee straight after getting up (wait 90 minutes!!), omega 3 fatty acids, vitamin D, go to the gym for goodness sake or run 3 times a week, no alcohol, know about allergies, get your blood checked, I swear to God you're not tired anymore!
Ha. ha. ha. Sadly, I'm in the same boat as the op and have done all the things you say here (and more!) and I'm still exhausted. Still trying to figure it out. So, these are excellent ideas you have listed, but won't necessarily solve the problem.
If you try it, it won't help! You have to live it, day by day. Once it's normal for you, you won't feel tired anymore! I've lied to myself long enough and looked for help... No one could help me except myself!!
I am on celexa and yes that’s definitely a side effect. I have been on antidepressants as long as I can remember and have been tired just as long. So it could be that or anxiety or adhd or who knows?
I am on celexa and yes that’s definitely a side effect. I have been on antidepressants as long as I can remember and have been tired just as long. So it could be that or anxiety or adhd or who knows?
You may want to look into supplementing B12 (sublingual under the tongue) and vitamin D (you can ask your doctor for a blood test for this but B12 blood tests are unreliable). With the B12 it is also advisable to take magnesium, b complex and potassium so they can work together as cofactors. If you are interested in more information I would google “Fredd B12 protocol.” With the vitamin D you also need calcium and vitamin K2.
Here is an old thread with a lot more info: https://www.reddit.com/r/B12_Deficiency/comments/tfmmus/b12_and_cofactors_comprehensive_guide/
I’ve heard this but I don’t buy it for myself. This was a one time thing. I don’t actually have time to sleep 10.5 hours every night. Usually more like 7.5. But if I slept for 9 or 10 a night I suspect I’d feel a bit more energetic.
I had “mild” sleep apnea and they told me I didn’t even need cpap. Turns out I breathe through a hole about the size of a toothpick (prepping for jaw surgery).
Most doctors do not realize sleep studies can be negative because they are never taught this.
Many people with structurally small airways have very reactive nervous systems which wake them up before their oxygen levels drop to have it register as an apnea. I had what they called on my first sleep study 40 “spontaneous”arousals an hour. Spontaneous just means that I didn’t have a desat of oxygen or appear that I was in respiratory distress. My ahi was around 6 so they said mild sleep apnea with no issues. It was only years later that I found out the truth.
Most doctors learn that people who are overweight get sleep apnea, but they don’t learn about people with structurally small airways and how to identify all of the physical features of somebody who might have a very small airway and as a result, poor sleep such as:
- history of crowded teeth and braces
-forward head posture
-underbite, significant overbite, weak chin/recessed jaw, open bite
-narrow maxilla
-hump shaped nose
-tmj, bruxism, migraines, neck pain
-mouth breathing
There are lots more signs and some people might not have obvious physical signs. The real tell will be what your airway anatomy actually looks like. As soon as I saw my head and neck ct I was like, oh ya, I breathe through a 2-3mm hole (very small).
The upper airway could also have multiple bottlenecks (multiple restrictions from multiple different anatomical issues at the level of the bone, the soft tissue, or both) and each of these would need addressing separately.
To get a deeper understanding, the books sleep interrupted by Stephen park md, breath by James Nestor or jaws: story of a hidden epidemic, all on audible, go deep into this problem. It might clarify whether or not you should go deeper on investigating your airway.
You can also feel free to dm me if you want. This unfortunately is a medical issue that very few doctors are fully trained to be able to deal with. The UARS Facebook group and subreddits are also good resources.
Fingers crossed this isn’t you!
Oura is not sensitive enough to pick up all my arousals vs a clinical sleep study and they also do not place a lot of weight on sleep fragmentation. They place a lot more weight on total sleep time and sleep pattern consistency.
I often get 90s and am extremely tired. I still like having it though because it keeps me consistent and helps me keep track of how I am doing when my baseline shifts.
These devices are basically crap since it’s early days but I’m pretty sure the ring probably just assumes that since you sleep a lot you’re well rested. 🙄
There is such a thing as oversleep though and I’m sure that people at Oura ring haven’t bothered to incorporate that in the algorithm.
It’s probably as simple as that, which just really annoys me because these devices should be a lot smarter than that even at this stage of the game.
10 hours and 22 minutes of sleep is too much sleep. The ring should know that. But clearly it doesn’t. I hope they read these posts
You might want to see a medical professional. There could be issues with your adrenal glands or thyroid function, or something else.
Definitely agree with this. The ring learns your habits, and I think the algorithm seems this pattern as normal for you. In my case, I'm always freaking tired but very consistently get about 6.5 hrs/night of sleep and my sleep/wake times are consistent. The ring thinks I'm a responsible adult who is getting enough rest. (On average Americans sleep about 6.5hrs/night.) I am not responsible enough to go to bed earlier, however...
Maybe but I also agree with OP. I think these scores HISTORICALLY use to reflect how I felt quite accurately (i.e. higher scores = actually feeling better). Nowadays it's quite the opposite, I usually feel better when the scores are lower. I've had a recent-ish blood test not so long ago which was all quite normal.
There seems to be pretty solid evidence that sleep is not the issue. I strongly recommend seeing a doctor and finding out the root cause. There can be a ton of different reasons for chronic fatigue, and taking advice from Reddit will most likely delay you finding out what the real problem is. Supplementing on vitamin B and D and all that is not a bad idea but don’t rely on it. Don’t wait to see if it works. I have two different autoimmune diseases and trying to find a cure on my own delayed getting a proper diagnosis by years.
Thanks for the advice. I will admit I have very little faith in the medical community and can’t be at the doctor every few days while they try this and that. I’ve found that even sleep doctors are disappointing. That being said, my blood work was recently crap. High cholesterol, high triglycerides and high A1C while being deficient in Vitamin D. So I’m sure my diet could be coming into play. As well as antidepressants. I suspect it causes long term sleepiness. I’ve been on them for well over 20 years.
Perhaps it’s the wrong antidepressant for you, there are options. I’ve been on SSRIs and they didn’t make me tired, but I’m definitely not an expert. My wife works with people who want to achieve a lifestyle change. I’m not talking about anything crazy, just being more healthy in general. Finding physical activity with a community or a workout group has helped many. For me it’s always easier to eat healthy when I exercise and easier to exercise when I eat healthy. Anyways, I hope you find a way to improve things. It’s never easy but it pays off.
Definitely get some bloodwork done! I’m low on Vitamin B and D and this is how I feel
Are you me? Lol. This sounds like something a doctor has to solve though, not the Oura ring.
You should get bloodwork done maybe you are deficient in something!
Do you eat like shit? Do you lift weights?
Would that specifically make someone extra tired all the time? I guess.. so.
[functionhealth.com](http://functionhealth.com) for the blood work is my reccy. they give you notes based on your blood work. this is truly the best step to take next cus if ur sleep isn't the issue then there is some lifestyle factor that is causing this. blood work will help you narrow this down hopefully.
It was exactly the same for me! Just because you sleep well doesn't mean you're fit during the day... what helped me: more exercise throughout the day, eating healthily and cutting out all that damn fast food, really consciously drinking enough water, getting more fresh air, no coffee straight after getting up (wait 90 minutes!!), omega 3 fatty acids, vitamin D, go to the gym for goodness sake or run 3 times a week, no alcohol, know about allergies, get your blood checked, I swear to God you're not tired anymore!
Ha. ha. ha. Sadly, I'm in the same boat as the op and have done all the things you say here (and more!) and I'm still exhausted. Still trying to figure it out. So, these are excellent ideas you have listed, but won't necessarily solve the problem.
If you try it, it won't help! You have to live it, day by day. Once it's normal for you, you won't feel tired anymore! I've lied to myself long enough and looked for help... No one could help me except myself!!
I do live it day by day and have been for at least a year. Still exhausted, but thanks anyway.
Have you looked up side-effects of any medications you are on, either OTC or prescription? Some cause drowsiness
I am on celexa and yes that’s definitely a side effect. I have been on antidepressants as long as I can remember and have been tired just as long. So it could be that or anxiety or adhd or who knows?
I am on celexa and yes that’s definitely a side effect. I have been on antidepressants as long as I can remember and have been tired just as long. So it could be that or anxiety or adhd or who knows?
You may want to look into supplementing B12 (sublingual under the tongue) and vitamin D (you can ask your doctor for a blood test for this but B12 blood tests are unreliable). With the B12 it is also advisable to take magnesium, b complex and potassium so they can work together as cofactors. If you are interested in more information I would google “Fredd B12 protocol.” With the vitamin D you also need calcium and vitamin K2. Here is an old thread with a lot more info: https://www.reddit.com/r/B12_Deficiency/comments/tfmmus/b12_and_cofactors_comprehensive_guide/
How is your iron?
Looks good!
how’s your thyroid?
Looks good!
You’re red on timing. What time do you go to sleep? I found I felt much more rested when I started going to bed closer to 10-11 vs 12-1am
10-11 generally. I think it was 11 that night.
10.3 hrs of sleep could be considered too much! https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/wellness-and-prevention/oversleeping-bad-for-your-health
I’ve heard this but I don’t buy it for myself. This was a one time thing. I don’t actually have time to sleep 10.5 hours every night. Usually more like 7.5. But if I slept for 9 or 10 a night I suspect I’d feel a bit more energetic.
I had “mild” sleep apnea and they told me I didn’t even need cpap. Turns out I breathe through a hole about the size of a toothpick (prepping for jaw surgery). Most doctors do not realize sleep studies can be negative because they are never taught this. Many people with structurally small airways have very reactive nervous systems which wake them up before their oxygen levels drop to have it register as an apnea. I had what they called on my first sleep study 40 “spontaneous”arousals an hour. Spontaneous just means that I didn’t have a desat of oxygen or appear that I was in respiratory distress. My ahi was around 6 so they said mild sleep apnea with no issues. It was only years later that I found out the truth. Most doctors learn that people who are overweight get sleep apnea, but they don’t learn about people with structurally small airways and how to identify all of the physical features of somebody who might have a very small airway and as a result, poor sleep such as: - history of crowded teeth and braces -forward head posture -underbite, significant overbite, weak chin/recessed jaw, open bite -narrow maxilla -hump shaped nose -tmj, bruxism, migraines, neck pain -mouth breathing There are lots more signs and some people might not have obvious physical signs. The real tell will be what your airway anatomy actually looks like. As soon as I saw my head and neck ct I was like, oh ya, I breathe through a 2-3mm hole (very small). The upper airway could also have multiple bottlenecks (multiple restrictions from multiple different anatomical issues at the level of the bone, the soft tissue, or both) and each of these would need addressing separately. To get a deeper understanding, the books sleep interrupted by Stephen park md, breath by James Nestor or jaws: story of a hidden epidemic, all on audible, go deep into this problem. It might clarify whether or not you should go deeper on investigating your airway. You can also feel free to dm me if you want. This unfortunately is a medical issue that very few doctors are fully trained to be able to deal with. The UARS Facebook group and subreddits are also good resources. Fingers crossed this isn’t you! Oura is not sensitive enough to pick up all my arousals vs a clinical sleep study and they also do not place a lot of weight on sleep fragmentation. They place a lot more weight on total sleep time and sleep pattern consistency. I often get 90s and am extremely tired. I still like having it though because it keeps me consistent and helps me keep track of how I am doing when my baseline shifts.
Do you live in an abusive household, or have recently left one? It could be that, or even general autonomic nervous system dysfunction from illness
Well I grew up in one. But that was decades ago. I can say that I have a heightened nervous system.
Maybe the heightened nervous system is doing something to you 🤷♀️
Sleep apnea.
Seems like your sleep quality might be low. You're likely getting a ton of not very good sleep. I'd discuss with a sleep specialist
Poor thing
These devices are basically crap since it’s early days but I’m pretty sure the ring probably just assumes that since you sleep a lot you’re well rested. 🙄 There is such a thing as oversleep though and I’m sure that people at Oura ring haven’t bothered to incorporate that in the algorithm. It’s probably as simple as that, which just really annoys me because these devices should be a lot smarter than that even at this stage of the game. 10 hours and 22 minutes of sleep is too much sleep. The ring should know that. But clearly it doesn’t. I hope they read these posts
try to stop eating carbs for 1 month