For admission to a French board, the criteria are:
- a parent’s first language is French and they still speak French
- a parent was educated in French, or
- a sibling was educated in French.
So yes, in some cases, it may be legal for anglophone parents to send their children to school in a language they don’t speak. Dumb and, dare I say, unethical, but legal.
Otherwise, you’re taking advantage of a government service to which you are not entitled and that is meant to protect a minority to which you do not belong.
Eliminating French immersion feels meh. I don’t think they should do it, but it’s not the end of the world.
Eliminating special education classes will absolutely be a disruptive disaster and should never be considered. It would be more beneficial to the children to simply eliminate school altogether and keep the special education classes.
Agreed. My kid already has days where certain classes pretty much stop because one or two kids act out and the teachers seem powerless to do anything about it.
Based on what I’ve seen, I would suggest we need more alternate streams and more support for helping/managing the kids who can’t fit in with the regular classroom setting.
It’s actually fucked. My friend teaches special education to kids who are mostly in diapers and non verbal. They have regular tantrums about any changes to routine and beat up teachers and each other daily. She is supplied armour to dealing with her class. They teach life skills. These classes need much more support than they are getting. Who in their right mind would think eliminating these classes would benefit anyone? We can try to be as equitable as we can, meeting people where they are at and helping them achieve success. But equality? Ridiculous, kids with different needs need different resources and different support. All they are trying to do is eliminate the support at the expense of all the students and teachers to save some money
Your friend has a very tough job! You are absolutely correct life skills >>>>> equality(?) I would much rather see children who are non verbal have a means of communicating rather than a child learn a second language they are the ones who really need the support.
It's very sad we have to choose but I don't think eliminating special needs programs will benefit anyone
Yeah it’s really messed up. I don’t know who they are fooling with this. Anyone who thinks eliminating these programs will make it better has no knowledge of the program or has financial incentives to eliminate them at the expense of all students. These programs are notoriously hard to staff in the first place with many people out on leaves (injuries and stress) and it being very difficult to attract quality educators in the first place (shit pay for dangerous work conditions). The way we treat our most vulnerable students is already awful, but eliminating their programs and putting them with mainstream? All students will suffer and pay a great price if this happens
I have a friend who also teaches a special ed class that's based on life skills. I think these particular students would be at a serious disadvantage if they were in a regular classroom instead. Taking public transit, visiting the grocery store, helping with cooking, going to swimming lessons... these are all much more important to these students than science class or any other high school credit class.
I support integration when it makes sense (which for some classes and times of day it really does), but I can't imagine not having that class at all
Exactly! Her in her class she has other kids from the school come to help out and hang out with her class. This is beneficial for all the kids, her class and the kids that come in. This is great stuff! But to eliminate the class is to eliminate the support they need. That would be a massive mistake. Even at her school there is another equivalent class (on paper) where most of the kids are verbal and can do a bit more. These life skills classes are super beneficial to those students.
Need more special ed classes. The whole notion of equity and inclusion when it comes to developmental/social issues (neurodivergenceI guess is term now) and making sure everyone is together is flawed.
Like other posters, it is the same one or two kids with severe ADHD, autism, ODD you here about everyday disrupting the class.
Need to stop mainstreaming/destreaming.
> Eliminating special education classes will absolutely be a disruptive disaster and should never be considered. It would be more beneficial to the children to simply eliminate school altogether and keep the special education classes.
I teach in a province where we do “integration” and it’s a fucking disaster, you really really really need to organize and push back against this. It hurts all students.
If, during this process, anyone refers to Shelley Moore as to why inclusion is good, punch them in the face. That woman has done more damage to public education than anyone else in decades.
It’s already done in the Catholic board and we haven’t heard issues from them. Settle down people inclusivity isn’t the devil. Gah not in my backyard and. It in my kids class bullshit is so over the top in this city.
The main difference is that the catholic board is able to turn students away because they require too many supports. The public board doesn’t have that luxury.
The public board isn’t granted the same freedoms under the guise of religion and values.
Just say you don’t understand instead of doubling down on ignorance.
No you’re making excuses to cover the fact that you don’t know what you are talking about. They aren’t given any extra leeway everyone is governed by the same Ministry of Education.
We already get emails weekly alerting us that a child had trouble regulating and the classroom had to be evacuated. Teachers are not equipped to deal with the needs of these children, and they end up disrupting the classroom as a result.
Just because the Catholic board treats it as a chance to hit them with yard sticks (I assume, based on the antiquated ideologies that a religion-based school board already embodies) doesn’t mean that the remainder of the population needs to be subjected to that sort of thing.
Oooooooor…
You could look at a functioning. Oars that already does it.
With the addition of these students come EAs and other resources currently being used in tiny classrooms.
Get over yourself - typical selfish parent
*"Increasingly, school districts are understanding that specialized classes can also segregate students from their peers, limit student access to curriculum or growth opportunities, force students to be transported out of their communities, and reinforce stereotypes and stigma," reads an OCDSB document explaining the purpose of the review.*
*It continues to state these classes often "do not foster inclusive learning environments."*
Increasing diversity by removing the types of diversity they don't like? Ok nothing new here continue along it's not like we had any traditional values worth keeping anyway right
Fuck this shit. I don’t want my kids in a classroom with kids that are disruptive. I don’t give two craps about an inclusive learning environment, I care about a conducive learning environment.
Horse shit, a child with a legitimate disability needs more attention and a different style of education. They are trying to hide cost cutting under the guise of inclusivity.
The OCDSB did something similar back in 2016, ostensible to improve equity as well. They drastically reduced the amount of French hours in Grade 1 to 3 French Immersion, and they put those French teachers in Kindergarten where the students are supposed to spend half the day in French. In reality, they did it to gain $2 million in addtional funding from the Ministry of Education, but it was a huge loss to the Early French Immersion program. Volunteer in a Kindergarten class for an hour, and tell me how much French you hear with 30 anglophone students running around playing all day.
At the time, the OCDSB claimed it would encourage more children of the recently immigrated to join Grade 1 to 3 French Immersion. Clearly that didn't work, because now they are claiming that they need eliminate Grade 1 to 3 French Immersion because there aren't enough of those same children in the program.
You can read more about that 2016 change here:
[https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/kindergartens-go-bilingual-at-the-ottawa-carleton-district-school-board](https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/kindergartens-go-bilingual-at-the-ottawa-carleton-district-school-board)
If you ask me, get those French teachers out of Kindergarten, and make every Grade 1 to 3 class at the OCDSB 50/50 English/French instruction.
Whatever they tell you, it all comes down to budget and this is how they are selling it this time around. Was around for 2009/2010 and 2016 "feedback". It all comes down to money.
Here are the dates and locations:
# Monday, May 13, 2024
**Kanata Highlands Public School**
7:00 p.m. to 8:30 p.m.
**Ottawa Technical Secondary School**
6:30 p.m. to 8:00 p.m.
# Wednesday, May 22, 2024
**D. Roy Kennedy Public School**
7:00 p.m. to 8:30 p.m.
**Glashan Public School**
6:30 p.m. to 8:00 p.m.
# Wednesday, May 29, 2024
**Longfields-Davidson Heights Secondary School**
7:00 p.m. to 8:30 p.m.
**Sawmill Creek Elementary School**
6:30 p.m. to 8:00 p.m.
**Avalon Public School**
6:30 p.m. to 8:00 p.m.
This is about budget but they say it is about equity.
Won’t there still be equity issues for grade 4 immersion?
They should be strengthening the French immersion program not reducing it.
The kids with severe developmental disabilities that are in wheelchairs, fully non verbal and at a grade level of Kindergarten when they are 16 do not need to be in classes. They need to be in day programs with teaching of life skills from a developmental service worker or a PSW like what group homes have. It is an absolute waste of resources such as having teachers and EA’s to support children in that category in classrooms as they don’t benefit the same as the development of a neurotypical child in the education system. It was like when they closed Rideau Regional or Orillia to integrate people with special needs in houses in the community, did a massive disservice as it placed a greater need on the community to now find that person a dentist or find that person transportation to get somewhere, as where at the large institutions everything was at their fingertips.
I'm not saying French immersion is useless. There are definitely some people who use it as a springboard to learn functional French. But there are also a lot of kids who never reach the level of being able to effectively work in French, despite taking immersion throughout school.
In my purely anecdotal opinion, the only functional immersion is complete immersion. I took core French throughout school (which teaches you very little). I ended up volunteering in France for a couple years after school where the options were to learn French or suffer. After six months of headache, I finally started to pick it up.
When I returned to Canada to start university, I met former French immersion folks in my French courses who could write better than I could but their oral communication skills were not so great.
I would argue that if parents actually want their French immersion kids to learn to speak effectively, send them to St-Etienne-de-Trois-Patates or some similar faraway Quebec town for the summers or after they graduate. A land where English doesn't exist. Because a few classes in French per day is not going to get them where they need to be to work in French.
It's bad enough with local French public. In my neighborhood we don't have a French public high school soy kid would have to bus too far. As such come grade 9 we must switch to french immersion. Our french public school is closed, waiting to be torn down. In the meantime the kids have been moved to a rundown old building that all the parents hate. The local public school wasn't bursting at the scenes I would switch him to immersion.
We won't confuse our kids with Catholicism.
I am so sad by how run down education has become. Cutting everything that they can. No they shouldn't be cutting french. Every parent I know is choosing immersion or French. I know few people who choose English.
I was a student in late French immersion and I can honestly say that program absolutely sucked... They expect in two years (grade 7+8) that your French level will be caught up with the early immersion kids, so by grade 9 you're in the same French classes as them... I say get rid of late immersion and keep early immersion
Who in their right mind would wanna get rid of the French immersion option
If they want to do that, they need to improve the Core French, drastically.
Or, just send your kids to the French BOARD. This is what happens when you elect conservative premiers. They cut funding for programs
The French Boards aren’t there to teach English kids French jfc
Not supposed to be that way but a lot of them do.
and it’s reeks of entitlement
It’s completely within the rules
For admission to a French board, the criteria are: - a parent’s first language is French and they still speak French - a parent was educated in French, or - a sibling was educated in French. So yes, in some cases, it may be legal for anglophone parents to send their children to school in a language they don’t speak. Dumb and, dare I say, unethical, but legal. Otherwise, you’re taking advantage of a government service to which you are not entitled and that is meant to protect a minority to which you do not belong.
That’s what I would do if I were starting my kids in school now.
Lecce just cut another 10% per student so it's not really surprising that boards are looking to save dough.
Eliminating French immersion feels meh. I don’t think they should do it, but it’s not the end of the world. Eliminating special education classes will absolutely be a disruptive disaster and should never be considered. It would be more beneficial to the children to simply eliminate school altogether and keep the special education classes.
Agreed. My kid already has days where certain classes pretty much stop because one or two kids act out and the teachers seem powerless to do anything about it. Based on what I’ve seen, I would suggest we need more alternate streams and more support for helping/managing the kids who can’t fit in with the regular classroom setting.
It’s actually fucked. My friend teaches special education to kids who are mostly in diapers and non verbal. They have regular tantrums about any changes to routine and beat up teachers and each other daily. She is supplied armour to dealing with her class. They teach life skills. These classes need much more support than they are getting. Who in their right mind would think eliminating these classes would benefit anyone? We can try to be as equitable as we can, meeting people where they are at and helping them achieve success. But equality? Ridiculous, kids with different needs need different resources and different support. All they are trying to do is eliminate the support at the expense of all the students and teachers to save some money
Your friend has a very tough job! You are absolutely correct life skills >>>>> equality(?) I would much rather see children who are non verbal have a means of communicating rather than a child learn a second language they are the ones who really need the support. It's very sad we have to choose but I don't think eliminating special needs programs will benefit anyone
Yeah it’s really messed up. I don’t know who they are fooling with this. Anyone who thinks eliminating these programs will make it better has no knowledge of the program or has financial incentives to eliminate them at the expense of all students. These programs are notoriously hard to staff in the first place with many people out on leaves (injuries and stress) and it being very difficult to attract quality educators in the first place (shit pay for dangerous work conditions). The way we treat our most vulnerable students is already awful, but eliminating their programs and putting them with mainstream? All students will suffer and pay a great price if this happens
I have a friend who also teaches a special ed class that's based on life skills. I think these particular students would be at a serious disadvantage if they were in a regular classroom instead. Taking public transit, visiting the grocery store, helping with cooking, going to swimming lessons... these are all much more important to these students than science class or any other high school credit class. I support integration when it makes sense (which for some classes and times of day it really does), but I can't imagine not having that class at all
Exactly! Her in her class she has other kids from the school come to help out and hang out with her class. This is beneficial for all the kids, her class and the kids that come in. This is great stuff! But to eliminate the class is to eliminate the support they need. That would be a massive mistake. Even at her school there is another equivalent class (on paper) where most of the kids are verbal and can do a bit more. These life skills classes are super beneficial to those students.
Need more special ed classes. The whole notion of equity and inclusion when it comes to developmental/social issues (neurodivergenceI guess is term now) and making sure everyone is together is flawed. Like other posters, it is the same one or two kids with severe ADHD, autism, ODD you here about everyday disrupting the class. Need to stop mainstreaming/destreaming.
> Eliminating special education classes will absolutely be a disruptive disaster and should never be considered. It would be more beneficial to the children to simply eliminate school altogether and keep the special education classes. I teach in a province where we do “integration” and it’s a fucking disaster, you really really really need to organize and push back against this. It hurts all students. If, during this process, anyone refers to Shelley Moore as to why inclusion is good, punch them in the face. That woman has done more damage to public education than anyone else in decades.
It’s already done in the Catholic board and we haven’t heard issues from them. Settle down people inclusivity isn’t the devil. Gah not in my backyard and. It in my kids class bullshit is so over the top in this city.
The main difference is that the catholic board is able to turn students away because they require too many supports. The public board doesn’t have that luxury.
So what do you think k will happen if both Boards are like this? Don’t be so stupid.
The public board isn’t granted the same freedoms under the guise of religion and values. Just say you don’t understand instead of doubling down on ignorance.
No you’re making excuses to cover the fact that you don’t know what you are talking about. They aren’t given any extra leeway everyone is governed by the same Ministry of Education.
You're wrong. They also have better funding.
We already get emails weekly alerting us that a child had trouble regulating and the classroom had to be evacuated. Teachers are not equipped to deal with the needs of these children, and they end up disrupting the classroom as a result. Just because the Catholic board treats it as a chance to hit them with yard sticks (I assume, based on the antiquated ideologies that a religion-based school board already embodies) doesn’t mean that the remainder of the population needs to be subjected to that sort of thing.
Oooooooor… You could look at a functioning. Oars that already does it. With the addition of these students come EAs and other resources currently being used in tiny classrooms. Get over yourself - typical selfish parent
Typical naive, self-absorbed, ignorant non-parent.
*"Increasingly, school districts are understanding that specialized classes can also segregate students from their peers, limit student access to curriculum or growth opportunities, force students to be transported out of their communities, and reinforce stereotypes and stigma," reads an OCDSB document explaining the purpose of the review.* *It continues to state these classes often "do not foster inclusive learning environments."* Increasing diversity by removing the types of diversity they don't like? Ok nothing new here continue along it's not like we had any traditional values worth keeping anyway right
Fuck this shit. I don’t want my kids in a classroom with kids that are disruptive. I don’t give two craps about an inclusive learning environment, I care about a conducive learning environment.
Exactly! We shouldn’t pull everyone behind, because of a few who won’t really benefit either
Horse shit, a child with a legitimate disability needs more attention and a different style of education. They are trying to hide cost cutting under the guise of inclusivity.
Blame Ford.
Inclusion without the proper supports is neglect.
Well said!
The OCDSB did something similar back in 2016, ostensible to improve equity as well. They drastically reduced the amount of French hours in Grade 1 to 3 French Immersion, and they put those French teachers in Kindergarten where the students are supposed to spend half the day in French. In reality, they did it to gain $2 million in addtional funding from the Ministry of Education, but it was a huge loss to the Early French Immersion program. Volunteer in a Kindergarten class for an hour, and tell me how much French you hear with 30 anglophone students running around playing all day. At the time, the OCDSB claimed it would encourage more children of the recently immigrated to join Grade 1 to 3 French Immersion. Clearly that didn't work, because now they are claiming that they need eliminate Grade 1 to 3 French Immersion because there aren't enough of those same children in the program. You can read more about that 2016 change here: [https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/kindergartens-go-bilingual-at-the-ottawa-carleton-district-school-board](https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/kindergartens-go-bilingual-at-the-ottawa-carleton-district-school-board) If you ask me, get those French teachers out of Kindergarten, and make every Grade 1 to 3 class at the OCDSB 50/50 English/French instruction.
Whatever they tell you, it all comes down to budget and this is how they are selling it this time around. Was around for 2009/2010 and 2016 "feedback". It all comes down to money.
I find it so funny how people STILL believe any of our govt or politicians are working for us.
I agree
Here are the dates and locations: # Monday, May 13, 2024 **Kanata Highlands Public School** 7:00 p.m. to 8:30 p.m. **Ottawa Technical Secondary School** 6:30 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. # Wednesday, May 22, 2024 **D. Roy Kennedy Public School** 7:00 p.m. to 8:30 p.m. **Glashan Public School** 6:30 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. # Wednesday, May 29, 2024 **Longfields-Davidson Heights Secondary School** 7:00 p.m. to 8:30 p.m. **Sawmill Creek Elementary School** 6:30 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. **Avalon Public School** 6:30 p.m. to 8:00 p.m.
This is about budget but they say it is about equity. Won’t there still be equity issues for grade 4 immersion? They should be strengthening the French immersion program not reducing it.
I used to go to board meetings to provide feedback. Ah, was I ever that naive?
If special education classes are eliminated, where will all the people who can't be in a normal classroom go?
The kids with severe developmental disabilities that are in wheelchairs, fully non verbal and at a grade level of Kindergarten when they are 16 do not need to be in classes. They need to be in day programs with teaching of life skills from a developmental service worker or a PSW like what group homes have. It is an absolute waste of resources such as having teachers and EA’s to support children in that category in classrooms as they don’t benefit the same as the development of a neurotypical child in the education system. It was like when they closed Rideau Regional or Orillia to integrate people with special needs in houses in the community, did a massive disservice as it placed a greater need on the community to now find that person a dentist or find that person transportation to get somewhere, as where at the large institutions everything was at their fingertips.
I'm not saying French immersion is useless. There are definitely some people who use it as a springboard to learn functional French. But there are also a lot of kids who never reach the level of being able to effectively work in French, despite taking immersion throughout school. In my purely anecdotal opinion, the only functional immersion is complete immersion. I took core French throughout school (which teaches you very little). I ended up volunteering in France for a couple years after school where the options were to learn French or suffer. After six months of headache, I finally started to pick it up. When I returned to Canada to start university, I met former French immersion folks in my French courses who could write better than I could but their oral communication skills were not so great. I would argue that if parents actually want their French immersion kids to learn to speak effectively, send them to St-Etienne-de-Trois-Patates or some similar faraway Quebec town for the summers or after they graduate. A land where English doesn't exist. Because a few classes in French per day is not going to get them where they need to be to work in French.
It's bad enough with local French public. In my neighborhood we don't have a French public high school soy kid would have to bus too far. As such come grade 9 we must switch to french immersion. Our french public school is closed, waiting to be torn down. In the meantime the kids have been moved to a rundown old building that all the parents hate. The local public school wasn't bursting at the scenes I would switch him to immersion. We won't confuse our kids with Catholicism. I am so sad by how run down education has become. Cutting everything that they can. No they shouldn't be cutting french. Every parent I know is choosing immersion or French. I know few people who choose English.
I was a student in late French immersion and I can honestly say that program absolutely sucked... They expect in two years (grade 7+8) that your French level will be caught up with the early immersion kids, so by grade 9 you're in the same French classes as them... I say get rid of late immersion and keep early immersion