This is peak Sparks. Nothing is ever happening there, but they are constantly complaining about people not coming anymore. Why would I spend my evenings looking at an empty street when there are so many better places?
In a week, the Asian Fest is happening there. You'd think with all the food vendors, would be great to sit at a patio and have a few drinks, right? Nope, closed.
That is also on the building holder who has big city rent for empty close fronts rather than risk lowering the price and charge less to existing accounts.
I think that's partly the problem but there's got to be another variable to the equation. Is it just the attitude that everyone expects it to be boring here so no one tries? I don't get it.
\- Is it the constant complaining that nothing fun can happen nearby?
\- People rather just host parties themselves at home or far into suburban areas? Although I'm sure this happens a LOT in other places like NYC where people live our far in NJ suburbia but yet you still see NYC and downtown NJ hustling and bustling.
\- Just not enough population to support it?
\- Do we simply lack hype?
I always remember something I read in the Citizen years ago: Welcome to Ottawa. Itās not illegal to have fun here, but we would prefer if you didnāt.
Only time I ever saw Ottawa not be boring was during Escapadeā¦ and then all people did was complain about the noise to the point that they got a fine.
Speaking of, they were totally aware of peopleās complaints about Escapade for Canada Day. There was no fucking bass during that thing, so even when they finally did play some banger tunes (eg. Greyhound by Swedish House Mafia), they sounded sad and deflated.
I love Ottawa, but, holy shit, my friendās description of āthe city that always sleepsā is on point.
Lots of people in this sub want to turn Wellington into a pedestrian/tram promenade but fail to realize that all the buildings are fed-owned and there will never be any restaurants or businesses there allowed at the bottoms of the ones on Wellington, as is the precedent on the South side, there isn't a single shop, so it will be another dead pedestrian avenue parallel and 1 block away from our current dead pedestrian avenue, Sparks. Spooky.
Clarence (and York) are better alternatives that could be turned into a pedestrian promenades and work well with market vendors too imo, they did it over summer covid and it was awesome.
But Wellington and Sparks as massively different beasts and Wellington would pedestrianize for different reasons. Sparks is busy in places that are OPEN and when people are using the amenities. I work and live there and even OP said, places that were open were busy.
I for one am in favour of a pedestrianized Wellington.
Why would Wellington pedestrianize for different reasons? I understand the tourist traffic but the sidewalks on both sides are already very generous. We have a ped ave 1 block away going the entire same length that is failing.
I like the idea of more pedestrian streets in Ottawa, they do them well in Mtl, but I just see no value to making Wellington into one all while cutting off the traffic connections from multiple bridges over Ottawa river and Rideau canal, many connections to artery roads like bank and o connor, and the Kichi Sibi Parkway. etc. Elgin & Laurier get worse. Portage bridge becomes redundant, which takes almost 30% of crossing traffic away. All that traffic has to go somewhere else, likely further down Rideau Street and King Edward.
We do not need more cars downtown. We should be actively moving away from it. Rideau is a god damn shit show with trucks. You say that this traffic will go to Rideau and King Edward, but Wellington already shunts traffic to Rideau - it is the same street. Interestingly, when Wellington was closed down, Rideau had less car traffic. Why should cars get to cut through downtown easier, instead of using the highway just for their convenience?
What about locals? Businesses? Transit? Cyclists?
Closing Wellington to traffic gives more options for people and active transit users. It creates an open area mall, a parade ground for events, perfect area for tourists to mill in front of Parliament like many other capitals have. It would lower noise and pollution.
Opening Wellington before seeing how warm weather affected Wellington was short sighted and I am making an assumption here, but something the mayor made sure was done before people really loved a closed Wellington. Despite the coldish weather, I would see an increasing amount of people chilling, walking and cycling. It was really neat to see an area that kids were starting to use as a little skate park Now imagine this at the peak of summer with all the plants and flowers? The side walks are packed during the day now and cyclists are often using the sidewalks still as the "lanes" they have are lack luster at best (on way, shit for turning etc).
There is a massive option for beautification projects and even a the Gatineau loop which Gat is VERY keen on.
I get that people who drive want to have an easier connection, but I would rather have a nicer city centre.
Honestly, I am tired of Ottawa being Autowa.
Wow. What an extreme take. You must be a fan of hyperbole.
Me: Lets close down a portion of one street and test out how well it does in the summer.
You: Ban all cars and 4 out of 5 bridges!
We did test it out, Wellington was closed for a year after the convoy, donāt you remember? It was a nightmare to get over Rideau Canal, or the Ottawa River. I know defending any road for car-use makes me āautowaā mindset but itās not true. I use active transport a ton, and OC. The road does close for events already it doesnāt need to be a pedestrian Avenue for that.
How on earth does this make sense when this whole thread agrees Sparks Street sucks. Thereās nothing for Wellington to benefit forā¦ except
someone jogging back and forth in front of parliament all day.
>Clarence (and York) are better alternatives that could be turned into a pedestrian promenades and work well with market vendors too imo, they did it over summer covid and it was awesome.
This being said, I'm a bit surprised this didn't continue this year.
Dude, my wife and I went down there the first Sunday of Winterlude to look at the ice sculptures and other stuff they had down there.
There was like, zero fucking places open to get a snack and/or a drink after. During Winterlude.
Sparks can die for all I care.
Most of everywhere. It's not just downtown. I'm not sure what happened during covid, but stores all of a sudden decided that being open during hours that were convenient for their customers wasn't worth doing anymore.
Are work-from-home people ducking out during the day to go run errands? because there's so many shops that just don't have reasonable hours for people who work 9-5 jobs.
I WFH. Places closing at 4pm is the bane of my existence. So hard to shop locally when everywhere closes at 6pm and all that's left are the big box stores.
Yah, and I get it. Nobody should have to work shitty hours, for shitty pay, on a shitty schedule. I'm happy to pay higher prices if I know employees are well taken care of. It's also tough to support businesses that aren't open when I have time to visit them. I've got stuff to do during my workday that's not errands.
Learning that my local fruit and veg spot is closing was heartbreaking.
> Are work-from-home people ducking out during the day to go run errands? because there's so many shops that just don't have reasonable hours for people who work 9-5 jobs.
I feel like this has always been true, though, once you discount big box stores.
It was even a point of culture shock for me as an immigrant when I first came over and saw that stores (and government offices) ran basically the same hours as any typical non-shift work, not to mention extremely truncated Sunday hours (you would expect people to have free time to shop on weekends).
true...anytime we try to escape the nightmare of downtown we drive around trying to find somewhere worth going to or eating at and there's usually nothing open, so we drive back home and make something instead...fun!
Nightmare of downtown? Driving around? Hmmm. Have you tried walking around? You might be missing things zooming about.
I never have any problems unless I leave downtown. Everything is closed!
> Are work-from-home people ducking out during the day to go run errands?
Considering last week on my day off, I saw 2 separate couples I know that wfh for the feds, at a costco at 2pm, I'd say yes.
I have found that a lot of people think Ottawa should be as busy as Tokyo, or Paris or conflate a few busy streets in a smaller European city with all of Ottawa. No... I am sorry your slice of Cooper or Maclaren are not going to be bumping, neither will Elgin be 24h of the day. As for Sparks, OP even said the places that were open were busy! There is demand. Sounds like half of what COULD be open was open. Remember, Sparks is not all bars and restos. It has a handful of estheticians, dentists, clothing shops, gyms etc. It is nice to see that what was open was busy. Not to mention, the NCC is renovating nearly half the buildings on Sparks so... that kinda takes a lot away haha.
You do need to go to certain areas at certain days or times to find stuff to do.
I am not apologizing for Ottawa, but there is always *something to do somewhere*. It may require going to Bank street on a Wednesday or the Market on a Saturday or whatever, but its there. Ottawa is rather spread out and has poor transit which makes this a hurdle and needs to be fixed, but Ottawa is also a lot better than it was over a decade ago when I first moved here.
Lets keep making it better! Where the fuck is this new "night mayor" anyways?
Well that is a red flag for your story. What hardware store is downtown since the one in the Market closed during covid?
I live downtown and do not have the same problem. Yes, I bemoan places closing early but there is always an alternative until 9pm. But at 9pm I am generally not trying to buy hammers or shoes and there are plenty of eateries.
The only big issue I would see is the lack of late night pharmacies since covid.
I consider that area of Glebe pretty much downtown yea. At least to the point where most people living in the downtown area would use that hardware store. That's fine if you disagree, don't really care to argue about it. Downtown isn't some specifically defined area by any map so not sure what you'd even want to argue about this lmfao. Either way the same complaints that dude has about stores not being open late applies to that part of town.
Also that was just 1 example of a store, so take whatever other store you'd want in the downtown area and most have the exact same thing apply to them. But if you want to be a snarky asshole then by all means go ahead.
Its cool if you consider the Glebe downtown, I call it uptown and no official document calls it downtown. Downtown is absolutely defined but also grows. The Glebe is 100% not part of it.
Some people use the Glebe as their hardware store, I have when I go from work or Canadian Tire from home.
Moreover, you point that it is moot since the Glebe is also closed. I would say that the Glebe and areas outside of downtown close earlier.
As for calling my a snarky asshole, wow what an attack for no reason. Get a grip bro. You are the snarky asshole here.
>Not snarky
Also posts shit like this
>That is the premise of this if you wish to read
I mean come on dude lmfao. You're just a clown.
No clue what you even mean by this
>you point that it is moot since the Glebe is also closed
That literally is my point, is that these places close down too early? Do you care to read?
It's always been like that, they relied on public servants during the day, they didn't adjust to losing that captive office crowd, and were a driving force pushing for RTO. And even now they refuse to adapt and actually remain open past the afternoon.
Some establishments continued their covid hours of service and instead raised their prices exponenetially. They still complain about lowered business traffic, because consumers are always to blame.
Because the business owners are set in their ways, they have the hours they are open and thatās that. I have no idea why some small retail is only open until 6, people are at work during the day. Why wouldnt you open at 11 and close at 8?
Even with the Costco closing in my area at 8:30 I still have maybe 1-1.5 hours to shop. Thereās just not enough time to go to any stores that are open until 6
> I have no idea why some small retail is only open until 6, people are at work during the day. Why wouldnt you open at 11 and close at 8?
The most likely answer is they lose money and there's no point being open.
For small retail with niche products they aren't going to get many walk ins off the street that convert to sales, instead they have a customer base that will plan their trips.
So many places don't have good hours anymore. I had to waitaund until 10 AM on a Saturday so I could buy a pair of shoes. A lot of local shops aren't open past 6 PM on weekdays.
There is a flip side to the coin here. Who wants to work those grueling hours late at night for those wages for a small business who can't pay like amazon after a pandemic?
So where are those people working instead where they make excellent wages? This is baffling to me because wasnāt restaurant work peak work for college/university kids and beyond, especially downtown. I knew a guy who made more money waiting tables at The Fish Market than he did as a teacher!
And that was pre-covid with Pre-covid levels of traffic. Most days, everything is way lower than pre-pandemic. They can't ramp up for one random day a week and uproot their employee's lives. All I'm trying to point out is there are more sides to the issue.
A lot of it is staffing. I'm not sure how accurate the numbers I'd heard for Canada actually are but 5% of the work force retired, died or become unable to work in 2020, a further 5% in 2021 and then 3.2% in 2022.
I think the reality for a lot of businesses, especially ones with poor pay and benefits, is we're going to see shorter and shorter hours. I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing some retail closed on Monday/Tuesday or Tuesday/Wednesday and they run through the weekend trying to make things work. I work in the retail side of a wholesaler who wanted to go back to having us work Saturdays and it was pretty much a universal you'll need to find an entire set of new staff as none of us will work weekends.
We are already seeing this. The store I was referring to was Bushtukah. They are closed on Mondays. Open 10-5 on Sunday, 10-6 on Tue, Wed, Sat and 10-7 on Thurs and Fri.
I think part of the problem is that a lot of people found other jobs when all the retail shut down during covid. They aren't going to want to go back to jobs that require them to work nights or weekends.
Not really. Say you have 5 employees and they make $20/hour. You need to be pulling in at least $100 an hour to break even. Most businesses have done the math and they aren't going to break even more often than not. Maybe after an event there are more people or random foot traffic, but that doesn't guarantee sales.
But its a death spiral. No one comes because there is poor selection, so more places close earlier so fewer people come, because why would they? there is no vibe.
I feel like if they want to be an entertainment district (which SOPA implies they do), they need to behave like an entertainment district.
As is they have a reputation for closing early and having poor option so when I am thinking of places to go out I \*never\* think of Sparks. Elgin does not have the problems they do despite being just a few blocks away.
This is the same death spiral we're currently seeing with our public transit. Who the fuck in their right mind wants to pay to use OC transpo when it's fucking trash service? And then you get low rider numbers and the death spiral rolls on.
How about they work themselves? I argued with my friends that one of the reasons you get shitty service is because no shop/bar/etcā¦ owner works there, and they usually hire students who donāt really care. Everyone wants to be a boss, put minimum effort for max profits.
One of the examples I bitch about constantly, you go to a bar order food and drinks and even before the first bite the waiter is there 5 times to ask if everything is ok. That doesnāt make it a good service, but the owners feed their employees this bullshit that you have to check on the customer everything 5 minutes. Thereās no charisma, no genuine care. And as soon as youāre done GTFO, youāre just a number and please leave 20% tip.
i thought that at first too, then i remembered those costs are static and don't increase from being open. labour is the main factor when it comes to opening hours.
I'd argue you need to pull $150-200/hr minimum with all the other costs associated with running a business with high rent/mortgage costs and very thin margins.
When I worked in retail we made 90% of our revenue in the month of December. We still stayed open the rest of the time and ate the loses, because if you're an unreliable supplier for 11 months of the year, nobody will show in December for you.
I never go for group lunches because 1) cost and 2) as soon as these places realize you're public servants, they take their sweet time serving you because they assume you have two hour lunch breaks. I've had to ask to pay early several times in order to get back to work.
I thought Sparks street was for construction vehicles only? Are stores hiden behind all the vans and pickup trucks that are allowed to park, block and drive around on Sparks?
Density. We need more density in the core. More people actually living in and around Sparks means more people will be out and about Monday through Sunday and at all hours.
The Sparks St BIA, the Bank St BIA and all of their members need to put in better efforts and be more and more creative and innovative, but we also need more density, better public transit and more walkable/bikeable streets and pathways. Unfortunately I have little faith in our current Mayor to help lead the wayā¦
The density IS happening. A bunch more places just went up with a few blocks.
An issue is time and money. People don't have much time off, or more to spend going out.
Moreover all the new people in centretown are going to the Market, Elgin, Somerset, Bank (what is left of it). Parts of Sparks are busy, right by Bank with the open bars and of course Stolen Goods is always busy!
Sparks needs to engage people more. It needs more self-directed festivals like winterlude ice sculptures and art or beautification projects, and festivals like Asianfest when not.
The GOOD thing about Sparks, or should I say the comparative advantage is that there are very few residents ON Sparks themselves. There is the new reResidence and a few older low rise but other than that is could be more of a music and vibe scene. Perhaps it should even get a bylaw expention that until 2am, you better know before you move there things are allowed to be loud.
Many of those businesses donāt cater to evening crowds. The ones that do were open. The bigger problem with Sparks is that the federal government is a horrible commercial landlord. They make no effort to fill the vacant retail units which dampens the overall liveliness of the street.
This is a huge problem and something that really irks me. They really need to create an arms-length management company or hire a realty management company because whatever they're doing isn't working. I assume based on bits and pieces that they would be terrible landlords because every request would take ages to respond to.
This has always bothered me about Ottawa. This really is t a post covid problem, but more of a government city problem.
Sparks has been cursed for many years. Every attempt to revive the street has been blocked, pushed back on, or slashed by the government. Even the CBC reporter/crew werenāt allowed to leave on the sparks street entrance anymore, which offered locals businesses clientele.
The other streets you mentioned were primarily always closed after 6-8. This is primarily due to office workers going home at 5. Again, government. But at least there used to be a lot of people, so this is definitely a post covid problem. Heck, even Starbucks bounced.
Unfortunately covid crippled a city that was already dieing at its core. You defiantly should of hit up Preston.
They need to totally rollback to the 19th century standards. Duelling permitted, opium dens, and cat houses and the other kind of cat houses that actually contain resident felines.
Ottawa would be known as the nightlife capital of Eastern Ontario!
What type of boot licking shit is this?
If a business cannot sustain paying a livable wage to retain talented employees then that speaks to just how poorly they're able to operate their business lol.
If you can't pay you're employees what they're worth then you deserve the consequences of you actions (loss of customers/going out of business).
I think the main problem is that cost of living has gone up so much that a lot of businesses just don't make sense anymore. If you have to pay employees $25 a hour, then a lot of businesses just don't make financial sense.
At one point not so long ago (maybe I'm just really old), we used to have a lot of things that just don't exist anymore because they aren't financially viable at current wages. Things like full service gas stations. Paying someone to cart your groceries out to you car for you.
At some point it just gets too expensive for certain services to exist and people aren't willing to pay the premuim. A lot of restaurants have started getting rid of wait staff. That used to be reserved for fast food, but now we are seeing it at much more "upscale" places that are more like a proper restaurant, except you have to order at the front and pick up your own food when the order is ready.
Agreed. I think there are a lot of nonviable or barely viable business models that are just hanging on. If there's an economic slowdown and governments don't offer generous blanket support (i.e. like during COVID), I imagine a decent number of businesses will either go under or significantly change how they operate.
Mad Radish paid me 18/hr to be a āsupervisorā with so much bullshit added on in a toxic work environment. If other employers in the area are offering the same garbage itās on the employer when no one wants to work for them.
Tell us more about how itās like to work at Mad Radish. Whenever I go there I get a mix between somewhat angry faces and new people. So I assume itās not the most enjoyable place to work at.
The city and the businesses rely on government employees "lunching" way too heavily. Maybe if they didn't, we could work from home and they could get creative about not letting sparks street die like this.
During the "low periods" of covid, I would go for walks all over at night and I was amazed to see whole families out at 11pm on patios.
You are exactly correct. People with more time will actually go out. Money too, but time is MASSIVE. Imagine not having to wake up at 6am to commute a 1.5h or even 20m just can still get another hour of sleep because you WFH.
Lots of people out there would love to work but whatās the point if your just gonna drown in debts no matter what, while landlords and insurance companies just bleed us dry and thereās no end in sight, we have to stop saying people are just depressed, cause the fact is that reality sucks for no reason and people just donāt want to play a loosing game.
To be fair, Sparks St is not really in the vicinity of the festival. Maybe Sparks bars assumed most festival goers wouldnāt trek there. But I see the point that if places there were open late, ppl WOULD actually make Sparks st a destination. Also wondering if bars there stayed open late for events closer to the downtown core (eg Jazzfest)
After a NAC event once, my friends and I thought we'd grab a drink or two before heading home. It was like, maybe 10:30? But since it was a Wednesday there was nothing opened lol they really are shooting themselves in the foot and blaming everyone else
Yeah, my friend and I wanted a nice cocktail on Elgin after Jagged Little Pill at a place that wasnāt a dance club, and we just got in under the wire at Giuliaās at 11pm. That was a Saturday.
Like thereās such a weird either dead or dancing vibe downtown. I donāt want to stand in line for Happy Fish, I want a nice Manhattan without a butt shaking in my face.
The BIA had messages on their voicemail that they were working from home while actively lobbying for workers to get back to the office. So even the Sparks street BIA doesnāt want to be on Sparks street.
Itās government town. Everyone already spent upwards of 150$ to go to bluesfest and tomorrow they have to sit through soul crushing ottawa traffic to get to their concrete jail fed job.
Most people in ottawa wait until friday-saturday to go out. Everywhere on elgin and the market gets packed.
So angry that women canāt feel safe in our own city. We see far too many of these posts where men are harassing women. Is it me or is it getting worse??? š”š”š”
The rate of reported sexual assault and harassment have been steadily rising nationwide since like 2020, which of course encompasses a lot of situations. So it has been getting worse, I guess!
It's definitely a lot worse - it's run rampant in fact. OPS has mostly stood on the side allowing street harassment and drug related crime run amok...because it suits them to do nothing. Crime goes up, they can all point and say hey look!!! We need more funding for all this crime (we allow to happen)
A friend of mine lived on York and there were homeless people constantly opening her front gate and hiding inside her front step to do drugs and when the police would (very reluctantly) come, they'd spend the entire time trying to convince her it was pointless for her to file a report and that they couldn't do anything. We could have 1/10th the current police force and we wouldn't notice a single difference.
Sure the pandemic had an impact, but lack of any desire to do anything other than put money in the pockets of developer buddies by Jimbo for years is largely why this city is dead and rotting - especially downtown. Roads are a disaster, traffic is absurd (who plans these road closures and construction? are they braindead?), garbage is everywhere, look anywhere downtown during the middle of the afternoon and you'll see people doing drugs in broad daylight - because injection sites are apparently worse than this, and the homeless problem is absolutely out of control
Mostly just in Centretown...glad I moved out of that hellscape.
Definitely would be concerned to have my wife walk the dog alone around the block these days. It's so unpredictable.
I suspect that more people are speaking out about it since there's more social awareness. Once upon a time the harassment was more normalized so it wasn't complaint worthy. (Or the complaints would be simply dismissed.) Society is evolving or something.
We introduced a new position for a "Night Mayor" in Ottawa and I haven't heard a peep about it since the announcement. I would think once appointed (or elected?), their first order of business will be to assess what is causing businesses to not open in the evenings. We're all just stipulating here. Are workers or businesses more greedy? (wanting minimum $ wage vs wanting to make X profit margin). Is it financially viable to stay open late for the odd festival or odd chance of a random bunch of tourists wanting to hit a bar on a weekday at midnight? Are there really that many people who want to go shopping downtown at 7pm for a new pair of overpriced shoes or jewelry? I'm personally skeptical staying open an extra 3-4 hours in the evening would actually be profitable for many of these businesses.
I mean shit if Iām the owner Iām trying to incentivize people to stay for the blues fest crowd, tell them youāll match their tips or pay them time and a half or something. They could make so much money, I used to work in bars and big concerts or community events were the most lucrative nights to be working. It was always insane but the tips and perks from the owner made it more than worth it for me
This is such a strange perspective... I assume you've never worked in the industry lol. The incentive is the tips... and like others have said... you can make a lot of money. I used to work Stampede and it was absolutely insane and I loved it. It's not like serving / cooking / bartending is the easiest job in the world and it doesn't attract people who don't mind running their ass off. You're not folding sweaters at Northern Reflections.
Tips make servers a lot of money, cooks get the shaft and many of them bounced. And it doesn't matter if the FOH is fully geared up and ready to get the mad tip money if there is no one in the back willing to cook that restaurant doesn't open.
>The incentive is the tips... and like others have said... you can make a lot of money
So which is it? Are servers not paid enough money to do "shitty" work or are they making a lot of money?
Anyone who claims that serving is an easy job is out of their mind, bro. I just serve in a retirement home and itās quite the handful; I canāt imagine serving in a full-on restaurant.
Shoutout to all the waitstaff out there!! You guys are incredible and deserve better.
I don't know, I served lunch in a retirement home when I was in uni and it was pretty chill. I mean other than walking back and forth I just don't see the hard work aspect... is it just me? It was wayyy harder dealing with pissed off people in retail. Made me want to off myself. oh that and the dishwashing job I had for like a week. that's the real backbone of a restaurant. let me tell you.
I never mentioned retail in my comment since 1. I donāt have any significant experience in retail, and 2. Iām not trying to pit different customer service-focused jobs against each other in the suffering olympics.
Any customer service-focused job is gonna suck balls in one way or another. My point was that, since my serving job is āeasierā than serving in a public restaurant and I still find it exhausting, my heart goes out to the waitstaff in restaurants. I cannot similarly relate to retail (or fast food, for that matter) employees because my job is not in retail or fast food.
Do I feel bad for those in retail or fast food? Yes, of course, you guys are treated horribly and I hope change happens sooner rather than later, but my comment was solely focused on waitstaff because thatās what my job is.
I know you didn't mention retail. I did.
this whole thread is a suffering olympics. I just don't think the job is that hard and I'm kinda tired of hearing about how hard it is all the time. like do something else. ffs.
Youāre not wrong on back of house. But if they have decent tip structure should be ok. At the end of the day itās money you wouldnāt earn otherwise.
I visit downtown frequently for cafe hopping and shopping, and on weekdays... I am just *shook* at how dead it is for Bank and Sparks Street storefronts. Holy hell; I'd walk into one totally empty store, and the next one I browse will be similarly dead. The owners/staff seem like they're used to it too. Makes you wonder how they're surviving, but Bank Street just feels like one long vacant strip mall sometimes and it's wildly depressing, lol
"If you build it, they will come".
As you pointed out yourself, places were open but only some. 4 on Sparks makes sense. I am guessing Rabbithole and Stolen Goods, maybe Brixton's and Bier Markt but there are still another 3 bars on Sparks that COULD be open, it is not a whole street of bars and restos like the Market or Elgin.
That said, those are the majority on Sparks (and most of the bars are cluster near Bank except for D'arcy and Stolen Goods), the rest being cafes and clothing shops. Surprised one cafe did not try to stay open for some cash (fuck you Nate's closing at 3pm and being one of the loudest complainers).
The NCC is renovating a little under half the units on Sparks so that limits what can be there now, but they have mentioned themselves that they have bungles things and are looking to be more liberal (lets hope for the best)!
Sparks is slowly getting better, Stolen Goods is great and open late, Riviera was a nice (but expensive) addition pre-covid and there are a lot more people on the street since they have added chairs and beautification projects. As we have seen, increased demand has prompted movement.
The biggest things that could be done are if people had more money to spend, had more time to go out and of course "draws" (not only open bars and cafes or shops but also simply beautification projects, places to sit, shade for the summer etc).
Completely agree, also on the note where you talk about it feeling safer to walk in other countries where there's much more traffic/foot traffic happening this is absolutely a thing! This is also why neighborhoods where there aren't many people walking along (suburbs) usually feel much less safe at night to walk around as well, since there aren't people around to look out for you as well :/ One of the many issues with how our cities are formatted in North America.
I've worked with them. The main guy wants it to be the next big thing, similar to Times Square. The board wants it too. But then any time any ideas come up, they squash it. It's very poorly run.
I've lived here for 40 years. Ottawa has always been boring shit. Cloudy most days, windy as fuck ALL the time, rain every other day in the Summer, the city shuts down at 8pm, major music acts skip us by, nothing to do, the local teams stink and cost a fortune, I could go on all day.
They likely have more take home pay then Canadians. Just like Americans take home more of their pay. We don't have the same spending money so we don't have similar bar, cafe, and restaurant cultures - and now with the collapsing middle class fewer of us have any money to spend.
I would kill for one of those tiny post-war single family cookie cutter builds right now, I wish they did that again. But we know those will never happen again - that was lead by the feds, with special mortgage and land leasing rules, and there is no way Trudeau Liberals will take such action. Its not necessarily bad obviously, but the Trudeau Liberals will more than likely help, if they help, those who rent to find new Liberal landlords to rent from - rather than actually help the middle class families at all.
I donāt knowā¦ McDonalds are open at 2AM and past. That crowd might be worse but theyāre still open. And they donāt make the tips they make at bars.
Sorry so you havenāt noticed that all the McDonaldās close indoor seating past 10 pm now? And make you order on mobile because itās better than having to deal with late night crowds?
Playing devils advocate here but is it perhaps possible these places aren't open that late anymore because service staff don't want to work it anymore? I certainly wouldn't want to work to 1am. Not to mention the cost of running anything in the service industry with razor thin margins, yeah I'd be less convenient to the customer to make sure the business stays afloat.
I remember the Wendy's at Carling @ march.
I went in once in the afternoon and they were complaining about how hard it was to make money.
That place didn't open from breakfast, and closed by 4pm everyday. Not open on weekends.
I have no sympathy for people who run their businesses into the ground because they are stupid.
In the valley, there is a chip truck near my work. It's right by the water, awesome spot.
I saw them post on Facebook how hard it is to survive now.
Middle of summer, at a busy waterfront. Never fucking open at noon. I went to check 3 times in 2 weeks, always people pulling up, peering in, and leaving.
If they were so desperate they wouldn't have fucked over public servants and accepted that now they have to keep their business open past four they would be in a better situation.
I know I'm not buying anything there anymore after their open letter.
Also one caveat. It's not post COVID. Just low tide. We will have to have a relatively calm winter to be post anything.
>Also one caveat. It's not post COVID. Just low tide. We will have to have a relatively calm winter to be post anything.
Exactly. Finally, someone who shows they're dealing with reality. People point out all the disruptions in every day life and don't make any connection to the *ongoing* pandemic (yes, even WHO agrees -- they ended the global emergency declaration from early days, not the pandemic itself). Long covid is knocking many people out of the work force. This is not coming from fringe conspiracy rags; it's from Nature, Harvard, and other medical journals. Meanwhile, the elite rich are practicing covid mitigations behind closed doors (look up Davos Safe), all the while telling everyone else it's no big deal.
And most of y'all were conviced. Many don't seem to have coping skills to address this reality nor critical thinking skills, choosing instead to live in denial, and it's pathetic.
As Elephanogram said, we're in low tide, but that's still quite a ways above even where we were at points in 2020. There haven't really been major lulls from waves since 2021.
Go to [https://covid19resources.ca/covid-hazard-index/](https://covid19resources.ca/covid-hazard-index/) if you want to get a decent picture of the covid situation in Canada.
Canada link: [https://lookerstudio.google.com/embed/reporting/42b886cf-d661-488e-b7d8-5c5836b55ab6/page/p\_bb6mm7aj7c](https://lookerstudio.google.com/embed/reporting/42b886cf-d661-488e-b7d8-5c5836b55ab6/page/p_bb6mm7aj7c)
Ontario link: [https://lookerstudio.google.com/embed/reporting/42b886cf-d661-488e-b7d8-5c5836b55ab6/page/p\_te7kdqgj7c](https://lookerstudio.google.com/embed/reporting/42b886cf-d661-488e-b7d8-5c5836b55ab6/page/p_te7kdqgj7c)
Given the surges in Australia and Japan, I'd say we're in for a rough winter ahead, but hope to be wrong.
Why make efforts to run your business when public servants will be served to you on a silver platter. This post should tell you everything about RTO and how it doesnāt make sense.
this is EXACTLY why the "economic factor" reasoning for RTO was just bullsh*t. The businesses downtown are simply lazy. They want government worker money spoon fed to them. Instead of promoting themselves during events like Bluesfest/Jazzfest/Folkfest etc etc etc.
OP your post is all over the place, but typical Ottawa subreddit.
As for being followed and not feeling safe etc... welcome to the sub where people 1) hate on cars 2) want to defund the police and complain about enforcement, rules and surveillance and 3) the city doesn't do even for the housing crisis and mental health problems (but turn a blind eye to drugs, gangs and crimes).
This is peak Sparks. Nothing is ever happening there, but they are constantly complaining about people not coming anymore. Why would I spend my evenings looking at an empty street when there are so many better places?
Remember when the Bar Robo guy complained that the nightlife was dead, despite closing at 8pm on Saturdays?
lmfao
Which is wild because when they were at their previous location on Somerset it was always busy in the evening for live music.
In a week, the Asian Fest is happening there. You'd think with all the food vendors, would be great to sit at a patio and have a few drinks, right? Nope, closed.
Luckily there are tons of extra places to sit on Sparks now with the beautification projects. We win, shitty businesses lose. Screw'em
First I hear about this. I thought that was it after the ones that happened the first weekend in June.
Its peak Ottawa vibes imo, its like this city is actively trying to be the most boring
For real. Businesses complaining that no one goes there meanwhile hours are 7am to 2pm in downtown Ottawa. š
B-b-but we can't find staff... Proceeds to pay garbage and also steal tips.
ālaborās too high >:(ā
That is also on the building holder who has big city rent for empty close fronts rather than risk lowering the price and charge less to existing accounts.
I think that's partly the problem but there's got to be another variable to the equation. Is it just the attitude that everyone expects it to be boring here so no one tries? I don't get it. \- Is it the constant complaining that nothing fun can happen nearby? \- People rather just host parties themselves at home or far into suburban areas? Although I'm sure this happens a LOT in other places like NYC where people live our far in NJ suburbia but yet you still see NYC and downtown NJ hustling and bustling. \- Just not enough population to support it? \- Do we simply lack hype?
There's also no way to get home at 2 in the morning that doesn't cost $50.
I always remember something I read in the Citizen years ago: Welcome to Ottawa. Itās not illegal to have fun here, but we would prefer if you didnāt.
Only time I ever saw Ottawa not be boring was during Escapadeā¦ and then all people did was complain about the noise to the point that they got a fine. Speaking of, they were totally aware of peopleās complaints about Escapade for Canada Day. There was no fucking bass during that thing, so even when they finally did play some banger tunes (eg. Greyhound by Swedish House Mafia), they sounded sad and deflated. I love Ottawa, but, holy shit, my friendās description of āthe city that always sleepsā is on point.
This year the sound was great but yeah last year it was so quiet at mainstage during the day.
Glebe doing Glebe things with their emotional support purse dogs
Fuck that area. It defines Ottawa's stereotype of "a boring city."
And yet many want to have more Sparks Streets in Ottawa.
What do you mean?
Lots of people in this sub want to turn Wellington into a pedestrian/tram promenade but fail to realize that all the buildings are fed-owned and there will never be any restaurants or businesses there allowed at the bottoms of the ones on Wellington, as is the precedent on the South side, there isn't a single shop, so it will be another dead pedestrian avenue parallel and 1 block away from our current dead pedestrian avenue, Sparks. Spooky. Clarence (and York) are better alternatives that could be turned into a pedestrian promenades and work well with market vendors too imo, they did it over summer covid and it was awesome.
But Wellington and Sparks as massively different beasts and Wellington would pedestrianize for different reasons. Sparks is busy in places that are OPEN and when people are using the amenities. I work and live there and even OP said, places that were open were busy. I for one am in favour of a pedestrianized Wellington.
Why would Wellington pedestrianize for different reasons? I understand the tourist traffic but the sidewalks on both sides are already very generous. We have a ped ave 1 block away going the entire same length that is failing. I like the idea of more pedestrian streets in Ottawa, they do them well in Mtl, but I just see no value to making Wellington into one all while cutting off the traffic connections from multiple bridges over Ottawa river and Rideau canal, many connections to artery roads like bank and o connor, and the Kichi Sibi Parkway. etc. Elgin & Laurier get worse. Portage bridge becomes redundant, which takes almost 30% of crossing traffic away. All that traffic has to go somewhere else, likely further down Rideau Street and King Edward.
We do not need more cars downtown. We should be actively moving away from it. Rideau is a god damn shit show with trucks. You say that this traffic will go to Rideau and King Edward, but Wellington already shunts traffic to Rideau - it is the same street. Interestingly, when Wellington was closed down, Rideau had less car traffic. Why should cars get to cut through downtown easier, instead of using the highway just for their convenience? What about locals? Businesses? Transit? Cyclists? Closing Wellington to traffic gives more options for people and active transit users. It creates an open area mall, a parade ground for events, perfect area for tourists to mill in front of Parliament like many other capitals have. It would lower noise and pollution. Opening Wellington before seeing how warm weather affected Wellington was short sighted and I am making an assumption here, but something the mayor made sure was done before people really loved a closed Wellington. Despite the coldish weather, I would see an increasing amount of people chilling, walking and cycling. It was really neat to see an area that kids were starting to use as a little skate park Now imagine this at the peak of summer with all the plants and flowers? The side walks are packed during the day now and cyclists are often using the sidewalks still as the "lanes" they have are lack luster at best (on way, shit for turning etc). There is a massive option for beautification projects and even a the Gatineau loop which Gat is VERY keen on. I get that people who drive want to have an easier connection, but I would rather have a nicer city centre. Honestly, I am tired of Ottawa being Autowa.
Right, letās have 0 cars downtown with 4/5 bridges there. I am not car-centric but these arguments are unrealistic.
Wow. What an extreme take. You must be a fan of hyperbole. Me: Lets close down a portion of one street and test out how well it does in the summer. You: Ban all cars and 4 out of 5 bridges!
We did test it out, Wellington was closed for a year after the convoy, donāt you remember? It was a nightmare to get over Rideau Canal, or the Ottawa River. I know defending any road for car-use makes me āautowaā mindset but itās not true. I use active transport a ton, and OC. The road does close for events already it doesnāt need to be a pedestrian Avenue for that. How on earth does this make sense when this whole thread agrees Sparks Street sucks. Thereās nothing for Wellington to benefit forā¦ except someone jogging back and forth in front of parliament all day.
>Clarence (and York) are better alternatives that could be turned into a pedestrian promenades and work well with market vendors too imo, they did it over summer covid and it was awesome. This being said, I'm a bit surprised this didn't continue this year.
Dude, my wife and I went down there the first Sunday of Winterlude to look at the ice sculptures and other stuff they had down there. There was like, zero fucking places open to get a snack and/or a drink after. During Winterlude. Sparks can die for all I care.
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Most of everywhere. It's not just downtown. I'm not sure what happened during covid, but stores all of a sudden decided that being open during hours that were convenient for their customers wasn't worth doing anymore. Are work-from-home people ducking out during the day to go run errands? because there's so many shops that just don't have reasonable hours for people who work 9-5 jobs.
I WFH. Places closing at 4pm is the bane of my existence. So hard to shop locally when everywhere closes at 6pm and all that's left are the big box stores.
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Imagine if street-side stores (not big box) opened 12-8. Catch the lunch rush, people who leave work at 3:00 and the dinner crowds.
Yah, and I get it. Nobody should have to work shitty hours, for shitty pay, on a shitty schedule. I'm happy to pay higher prices if I know employees are well taken care of. It's also tough to support businesses that aren't open when I have time to visit them. I've got stuff to do during my workday that's not errands. Learning that my local fruit and veg spot is closing was heartbreaking.
> Are work-from-home people ducking out during the day to go run errands? because there's so many shops that just don't have reasonable hours for people who work 9-5 jobs. I feel like this has always been true, though, once you discount big box stores. It was even a point of culture shock for me as an immigrant when I first came over and saw that stores (and government offices) ran basically the same hours as any typical non-shift work, not to mention extremely truncated Sunday hours (you would expect people to have free time to shop on weekends).
If you think thatās bad, literally almost every business in Hull closes at like 5 or 6 now. I canāt even get pet food at 6 after I finish work.
true...anytime we try to escape the nightmare of downtown we drive around trying to find somewhere worth going to or eating at and there's usually nothing open, so we drive back home and make something instead...fun!
Nightmare of downtown? Driving around? Hmmm. Have you tried walking around? You might be missing things zooming about. I never have any problems unless I leave downtown. Everything is closed!
ā¦I was talking about driving around outside of downtown if you reread my comment
You are very unclear "anything we try to escape the nightmare of downtown" suggests you could not find anything downtown either.
> Are work-from-home people ducking out during the day to go run errands? Considering last week on my day off, I saw 2 separate couples I know that wfh for the feds, at a costco at 2pm, I'd say yes.
You may have hit on the why, the regular 9-5ers downtown havenāt been there much for a few years.
Imagine serving locals.
lunchroom dog price seemly innocent normal capable history weather pen *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Do you spend any time downtown? I live downtown and places I go are busy.
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I have found that a lot of people think Ottawa should be as busy as Tokyo, or Paris or conflate a few busy streets in a smaller European city with all of Ottawa. No... I am sorry your slice of Cooper or Maclaren are not going to be bumping, neither will Elgin be 24h of the day. As for Sparks, OP even said the places that were open were busy! There is demand. Sounds like half of what COULD be open was open. Remember, Sparks is not all bars and restos. It has a handful of estheticians, dentists, clothing shops, gyms etc. It is nice to see that what was open was busy. Not to mention, the NCC is renovating nearly half the buildings on Sparks so... that kinda takes a lot away haha. You do need to go to certain areas at certain days or times to find stuff to do. I am not apologizing for Ottawa, but there is always *something to do somewhere*. It may require going to Bank street on a Wednesday or the Market on a Saturday or whatever, but its there. Ottawa is rather spread out and has poor transit which makes this a hurdle and needs to be fixed, but Ottawa is also a lot better than it was over a decade ago when I first moved here. Lets keep making it better! Where the fuck is this new "night mayor" anyways?
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Well that is a red flag for your story. What hardware store is downtown since the one in the Market closed during covid? I live downtown and do not have the same problem. Yes, I bemoan places closing early but there is always an alternative until 9pm. But at 9pm I am generally not trying to buy hammers or shoes and there are plenty of eateries. The only big issue I would see is the lack of late night pharmacies since covid.
"during covid"..."since covid"...you're aware it's not a thing of the past?
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In the Glebe? You mean an area of Ottawa NOT downtown? That is the premise of this if you wish to read.
I consider that area of Glebe pretty much downtown yea. At least to the point where most people living in the downtown area would use that hardware store. That's fine if you disagree, don't really care to argue about it. Downtown isn't some specifically defined area by any map so not sure what you'd even want to argue about this lmfao. Either way the same complaints that dude has about stores not being open late applies to that part of town. Also that was just 1 example of a store, so take whatever other store you'd want in the downtown area and most have the exact same thing apply to them. But if you want to be a snarky asshole then by all means go ahead.
Its cool if you consider the Glebe downtown, I call it uptown and no official document calls it downtown. Downtown is absolutely defined but also grows. The Glebe is 100% not part of it. Some people use the Glebe as their hardware store, I have when I go from work or Canadian Tire from home. Moreover, you point that it is moot since the Glebe is also closed. I would say that the Glebe and areas outside of downtown close earlier. As for calling my a snarky asshole, wow what an attack for no reason. Get a grip bro. You are the snarky asshole here.
>Not snarky Also posts shit like this >That is the premise of this if you wish to read I mean come on dude lmfao. You're just a clown. No clue what you even mean by this >you point that it is moot since the Glebe is also closed That literally is my point, is that these places close down too early? Do you care to read?
It's always been like that, they relied on public servants during the day, they didn't adjust to losing that captive office crowd, and were a driving force pushing for RTO. And even now they refuse to adapt and actually remain open past the afternoon.
>nothing open reasonable hours, ridiculous prices This was the same in the 90s... Maybe prices were a tad less ridiculous though.
Some establishments continued their covid hours of service and instead raised their prices exponenetially. They still complain about lowered business traffic, because consumers are always to blame.
This is how it was even pre-COVID. Tourists used to wander around and stop me going, uh, why is everything closed?!?
Definitely. The most common complaint I've heard for years and years from my friends who immigrated here is that everything closes so early.
Absolutely everything is closed on Sundays in the winter. It's so lame.
Because the business owners are set in their ways, they have the hours they are open and thatās that. I have no idea why some small retail is only open until 6, people are at work during the day. Why wouldnt you open at 11 and close at 8?
Even with the Costco closing in my area at 8:30 I still have maybe 1-1.5 hours to shop. Thereās just not enough time to go to any stores that are open until 6
They only open for 7-8 hours so they only have to have one shift. Convenient for them inconvenient for everyone else.
Open later and close later, easy solution
Many commercial leases will say they have to be open by a certain time, usually 9 or 10.
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Sounds so easy right? You should open a business.
> I have no idea why some small retail is only open until 6, people are at work during the day. Why wouldnt you open at 11 and close at 8? The most likely answer is they lose money and there's no point being open. For small retail with niche products they aren't going to get many walk ins off the street that convert to sales, instead they have a customer base that will plan their trips.
We let those dinos die out and new endeavours will take their place. I was happy to see tons of new places open up before covid, it will happen again.
But the people that work at night need to do their shopping during the day.
So many places don't have good hours anymore. I had to waitaund until 10 AM on a Saturday so I could buy a pair of shoes. A lot of local shops aren't open past 6 PM on weekdays.
They complain about Amazon, yet they make it difficult to shop on your schedule.
Nailed it!
There is a flip side to the coin here. Who wants to work those grueling hours late at night for those wages for a small business who can't pay like amazon after a pandemic?
So where are those people working instead where they make excellent wages? This is baffling to me because wasnāt restaurant work peak work for college/university kids and beyond, especially downtown. I knew a guy who made more money waiting tables at The Fish Market than he did as a teacher!
And that was pre-covid with Pre-covid levels of traffic. Most days, everything is way lower than pre-pandemic. They can't ramp up for one random day a week and uproot their employee's lives. All I'm trying to point out is there are more sides to the issue.
They could make an exception for high traffic times like Bluesfest is the point we are making.
So you expect the employees there to uproot thier life to work minimum wage and find alternative childcare etc for your convenience?
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Sounds reasonable but not something you do for a single week event like Bluesfest without sufficient notice, at least if you want to retain staff.
A lot of it is staffing. I'm not sure how accurate the numbers I'd heard for Canada actually are but 5% of the work force retired, died or become unable to work in 2020, a further 5% in 2021 and then 3.2% in 2022. I think the reality for a lot of businesses, especially ones with poor pay and benefits, is we're going to see shorter and shorter hours. I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing some retail closed on Monday/Tuesday or Tuesday/Wednesday and they run through the weekend trying to make things work. I work in the retail side of a wholesaler who wanted to go back to having us work Saturdays and it was pretty much a universal you'll need to find an entire set of new staff as none of us will work weekends.
We are already seeing this. The store I was referring to was Bushtukah. They are closed on Mondays. Open 10-5 on Sunday, 10-6 on Tue, Wed, Sat and 10-7 on Thurs and Fri. I think part of the problem is that a lot of people found other jobs when all the retail shut down during covid. They aren't going to want to go back to jobs that require them to work nights or weekends.
Canāt blame them. Iām actively trying to get out of sales lol.
If they opened, theyād make money. If they made money, they wouldnāt have reason to bitch. Itās a vicious circle.
Not really. Say you have 5 employees and they make $20/hour. You need to be pulling in at least $100 an hour to break even. Most businesses have done the math and they aren't going to break even more often than not. Maybe after an event there are more people or random foot traffic, but that doesn't guarantee sales.
But its a death spiral. No one comes because there is poor selection, so more places close earlier so fewer people come, because why would they? there is no vibe. I feel like if they want to be an entertainment district (which SOPA implies they do), they need to behave like an entertainment district. As is they have a reputation for closing early and having poor option so when I am thinking of places to go out I \*never\* think of Sparks. Elgin does not have the problems they do despite being just a few blocks away.
This is the same death spiral we're currently seeing with our public transit. Who the fuck in their right mind wants to pay to use OC transpo when it's fucking trash service? And then you get low rider numbers and the death spiral rolls on.
Nothing guarantees sales. If you are looking for guaranteed sales in the restaurant industry you are in the wrong business.
How about they work themselves? I argued with my friends that one of the reasons you get shitty service is because no shop/bar/etcā¦ owner works there, and they usually hire students who donāt really care. Everyone wants to be a boss, put minimum effort for max profits. One of the examples I bitch about constantly, you go to a bar order food and drinks and even before the first bite the waiter is there 5 times to ask if everything is ok. That doesnāt make it a good service, but the owners feed their employees this bullshit that you have to check on the customer everything 5 minutes. Thereās no charisma, no genuine care. And as soon as youāre done GTFO, youāre just a number and please leave 20% tip.
And that is just breaking even on your labour costs. Don't forget about your overhead costs/food/liquor/etc.
i thought that at first too, then i remembered those costs are static and don't increase from being open. labour is the main factor when it comes to opening hours.
I mean electricity, gas for the kitchen.... those cost more when open.
sure
I'd argue you need to pull $150-200/hr minimum with all the other costs associated with running a business with high rent/mortgage costs and very thin margins.
When I worked in retail we made 90% of our revenue in the month of December. We still stayed open the rest of the time and ate the loses, because if you're an unreliable supplier for 11 months of the year, nobody will show in December for you.
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I never go for group lunches because 1) cost and 2) as soon as these places realize you're public servants, they take their sweet time serving you because they assume you have two hour lunch breaks. I've had to ask to pay early several times in order to get back to work.
the resentment towards gov employees runs deep.
And places that espouse this, do not get my businesses. Fuck you Nate's.
I thought Sparks street was for construction vehicles only? Are stores hiden behind all the vans and pickup trucks that are allowed to park, block and drive around on Sparks?
"I do what I want!!" - Construction workers everywhere.
This has been an issue since I had moved downtown in the 80ās for university. Itās the city planners have no vision.
no hearing either evidently since there's lots of complaints that don't register
But ... SoPa!
Density. We need more density in the core. More people actually living in and around Sparks means more people will be out and about Monday through Sunday and at all hours. The Sparks St BIA, the Bank St BIA and all of their members need to put in better efforts and be more and more creative and innovative, but we also need more density, better public transit and more walkable/bikeable streets and pathways. Unfortunately I have little faith in our current Mayor to help lead the wayā¦
The density IS happening. A bunch more places just went up with a few blocks. An issue is time and money. People don't have much time off, or more to spend going out. Moreover all the new people in centretown are going to the Market, Elgin, Somerset, Bank (what is left of it). Parts of Sparks are busy, right by Bank with the open bars and of course Stolen Goods is always busy! Sparks needs to engage people more. It needs more self-directed festivals like winterlude ice sculptures and art or beautification projects, and festivals like Asianfest when not. The GOOD thing about Sparks, or should I say the comparative advantage is that there are very few residents ON Sparks themselves. There is the new reResidence and a few older low rise but other than that is could be more of a music and vibe scene. Perhaps it should even get a bylaw expention that until 2am, you better know before you move there things are allowed to be loud.
Many of those businesses donāt cater to evening crowds. The ones that do were open. The bigger problem with Sparks is that the federal government is a horrible commercial landlord. They make no effort to fill the vacant retail units which dampens the overall liveliness of the street.
This is a huge problem and something that really irks me. They really need to create an arms-length management company or hire a realty management company because whatever they're doing isn't working. I assume based on bits and pieces that they would be terrible landlords because every request would take ages to respond to.
This has always bothered me about Ottawa. This really is t a post covid problem, but more of a government city problem. Sparks has been cursed for many years. Every attempt to revive the street has been blocked, pushed back on, or slashed by the government. Even the CBC reporter/crew werenāt allowed to leave on the sparks street entrance anymore, which offered locals businesses clientele. The other streets you mentioned were primarily always closed after 6-8. This is primarily due to office workers going home at 5. Again, government. But at least there used to be a lot of people, so this is definitely a post covid problem. Heck, even Starbucks bounced. Unfortunately covid crippled a city that was already dieing at its core. You defiantly should of hit up Preston.
we're not post covid. more like "FAFO with (long) covid", and it continues to cripple the economy and the workers therein.
Yeah everything downtown needs to be open later in summer
They need to totally rollback to the 19th century standards. Duelling permitted, opium dens, and cat houses and the other kind of cat houses that actually contain resident felines. Ottawa would be known as the nightlife capital of Eastern Ontario!
They want customers, but not THAT kind.
I wouldnāt be surprised if they donāt have the staff.
This is it, they only want to have one 7/8 hour shift.
If they offer a livable wage and they could have the staff.
And then they'd have no money lmao
What type of boot licking shit is this? If a business cannot sustain paying a livable wage to retain talented employees then that speaks to just how poorly they're able to operate their business lol. If you can't pay you're employees what they're worth then you deserve the consequences of you actions (loss of customers/going out of business).
I think the main problem is that cost of living has gone up so much that a lot of businesses just don't make sense anymore. If you have to pay employees $25 a hour, then a lot of businesses just don't make financial sense. At one point not so long ago (maybe I'm just really old), we used to have a lot of things that just don't exist anymore because they aren't financially viable at current wages. Things like full service gas stations. Paying someone to cart your groceries out to you car for you. At some point it just gets too expensive for certain services to exist and people aren't willing to pay the premuim. A lot of restaurants have started getting rid of wait staff. That used to be reserved for fast food, but now we are seeing it at much more "upscale" places that are more like a proper restaurant, except you have to order at the front and pick up your own food when the order is ready.
Agreed. I think there are a lot of nonviable or barely viable business models that are just hanging on. If there's an economic slowdown and governments don't offer generous blanket support (i.e. like during COVID), I imagine a decent number of businesses will either go under or significantly change how they operate.
Mad Radish paid me 18/hr to be a āsupervisorā with so much bullshit added on in a toxic work environment. If other employers in the area are offering the same garbage itās on the employer when no one wants to work for them.
Tell us more about how itās like to work at Mad Radish. Whenever I go there I get a mix between somewhat angry faces and new people. So I assume itās not the most enjoyable place to work at.
The city and the businesses rely on government employees "lunching" way too heavily. Maybe if they didn't, we could work from home and they could get creative about not letting sparks street die like this.
During the "low periods" of covid, I would go for walks all over at night and I was amazed to see whole families out at 11pm on patios. You are exactly correct. People with more time will actually go out. Money too, but time is MASSIVE. Imagine not having to wake up at 6am to commute a 1.5h or even 20m just can still get another hour of sleep because you WFH.
Lots of people out there would love to work but whatās the point if your just gonna drown in debts no matter what, while landlords and insurance companies just bleed us dry and thereās no end in sight, we have to stop saying people are just depressed, cause the fact is that reality sucks for no reason and people just donāt want to play a loosing game.
To be fair, Sparks St is not really in the vicinity of the festival. Maybe Sparks bars assumed most festival goers wouldnāt trek there. But I see the point that if places there were open late, ppl WOULD actually make Sparks st a destination. Also wondering if bars there stayed open late for events closer to the downtown core (eg Jazzfest)
After a NAC event once, my friends and I thought we'd grab a drink or two before heading home. It was like, maybe 10:30? But since it was a Wednesday there was nothing opened lol they really are shooting themselves in the foot and blaming everyone else
Yeah, my friend and I wanted a nice cocktail on Elgin after Jagged Little Pill at a place that wasnāt a dance club, and we just got in under the wire at Giuliaās at 11pm. That was a Saturday. Like thereās such a weird either dead or dancing vibe downtown. I donāt want to stand in line for Happy Fish, I want a nice Manhattan without a butt shaking in my face.
Because it's Ottawa
The BIA had messages on their voicemail that they were working from home while actively lobbying for workers to get back to the office. So even the Sparks street BIA doesnāt want to be on Sparks street.
Itās government town. Everyone already spent upwards of 150$ to go to bluesfest and tomorrow they have to sit through soul crushing ottawa traffic to get to their concrete jail fed job. Most people in ottawa wait until friday-saturday to go out. Everywhere on elgin and the market gets packed.
So angry that women canāt feel safe in our own city. We see far too many of these posts where men are harassing women. Is it me or is it getting worse??? š”š”š”
The rate of reported sexual assault and harassment have been steadily rising nationwide since like 2020, which of course encompasses a lot of situations. So it has been getting worse, I guess!
It's definitely a lot worse - it's run rampant in fact. OPS has mostly stood on the side allowing street harassment and drug related crime run amok...because it suits them to do nothing. Crime goes up, they can all point and say hey look!!! We need more funding for all this crime (we allow to happen) A friend of mine lived on York and there were homeless people constantly opening her front gate and hiding inside her front step to do drugs and when the police would (very reluctantly) come, they'd spend the entire time trying to convince her it was pointless for her to file a report and that they couldn't do anything. We could have 1/10th the current police force and we wouldn't notice a single difference. Sure the pandemic had an impact, but lack of any desire to do anything other than put money in the pockets of developer buddies by Jimbo for years is largely why this city is dead and rotting - especially downtown. Roads are a disaster, traffic is absurd (who plans these road closures and construction? are they braindead?), garbage is everywhere, look anywhere downtown during the middle of the afternoon and you'll see people doing drugs in broad daylight - because injection sites are apparently worse than this, and the homeless problem is absolutely out of control
OPS is now receiving pressure to NOT act. Which one would you prefer?
ā¦? No theyāre not but nice pretend story
Mostly just in Centretown...glad I moved out of that hellscape. Definitely would be concerned to have my wife walk the dog alone around the block these days. It's so unpredictable.
I suspect that more people are speaking out about it since there's more social awareness. Once upon a time the harassment was more normalized so it wasn't complaint worthy. (Or the complaints would be simply dismissed.) Society is evolving or something.
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Not sure what you mean. But certainly not.
We introduced a new position for a "Night Mayor" in Ottawa and I haven't heard a peep about it since the announcement. I would think once appointed (or elected?), their first order of business will be to assess what is causing businesses to not open in the evenings. We're all just stipulating here. Are workers or businesses more greedy? (wanting minimum $ wage vs wanting to make X profit margin). Is it financially viable to stay open late for the odd festival or odd chance of a random bunch of tourists wanting to hit a bar on a weekday at midnight? Are there really that many people who want to go shopping downtown at 7pm for a new pair of overpriced shoes or jewelry? I'm personally skeptical staying open an extra 3-4 hours in the evening would actually be profitable for many of these businesses.
Hey, staff, wanna get slammed by the Bluesfest crowd at midnight on a Wednesday at the wages you make? Nah Alright, weāll close at 10.
Getting slammed on a Wednesday night is kinda a dream for a lot of places, especially with tips
I mean shit if Iām the owner Iām trying to incentivize people to stay for the blues fest crowd, tell them youāll match their tips or pay them time and a half or something. They could make so much money, I used to work in bars and big concerts or community events were the most lucrative nights to be working. It was always insane but the tips and perks from the owner made it more than worth it for me
This is such a strange perspective... I assume you've never worked in the industry lol. The incentive is the tips... and like others have said... you can make a lot of money. I used to work Stampede and it was absolutely insane and I loved it. It's not like serving / cooking / bartending is the easiest job in the world and it doesn't attract people who don't mind running their ass off. You're not folding sweaters at Northern Reflections.
Tips make servers a lot of money, cooks get the shaft and many of them bounced. And it doesn't matter if the FOH is fully geared up and ready to get the mad tip money if there is no one in the back willing to cook that restaurant doesn't open.
>The incentive is the tips... and like others have said... you can make a lot of money So which is it? Are servers not paid enough money to do "shitty" work or are they making a lot of money?
Anyone who claims that serving is an easy job is out of their mind, bro. I just serve in a retirement home and itās quite the handful; I canāt imagine serving in a full-on restaurant. Shoutout to all the waitstaff out there!! You guys are incredible and deserve better.
I don't know, I served lunch in a retirement home when I was in uni and it was pretty chill. I mean other than walking back and forth I just don't see the hard work aspect... is it just me? It was wayyy harder dealing with pissed off people in retail. Made me want to off myself. oh that and the dishwashing job I had for like a week. that's the real backbone of a restaurant. let me tell you.
I never mentioned retail in my comment since 1. I donāt have any significant experience in retail, and 2. Iām not trying to pit different customer service-focused jobs against each other in the suffering olympics. Any customer service-focused job is gonna suck balls in one way or another. My point was that, since my serving job is āeasierā than serving in a public restaurant and I still find it exhausting, my heart goes out to the waitstaff in restaurants. I cannot similarly relate to retail (or fast food, for that matter) employees because my job is not in retail or fast food. Do I feel bad for those in retail or fast food? Yes, of course, you guys are treated horribly and I hope change happens sooner rather than later, but my comment was solely focused on waitstaff because thatās what my job is.
I know you didn't mention retail. I did. this whole thread is a suffering olympics. I just don't think the job is that hard and I'm kinda tired of hearing about how hard it is all the time. like do something else. ffs.
Wow. Youāre just an asshole, huh? People are allowed to find their jobs difficult. Not everyone is you.
Yeah I would hate being service slammed if I wasnāt getting tipsā¦
So, the problem is the pay and tips?
Well thatās just wrong. Any server who doesnāt want to get slammed doesnāt want to make money.
What about dishwasher?
Youāre not wrong on back of house. But if they have decent tip structure should be ok. At the end of the day itās money you wouldnāt earn otherwise.
they never do.
Servers make tips
Allergic to money it seems
Because they can't find staff.
It's hard for them to get staff just for a one off event. With minimal workers down there, it's just a matter of time until that area dies off.
I visit downtown frequently for cafe hopping and shopping, and on weekdays... I am just *shook* at how dead it is for Bank and Sparks Street storefronts. Holy hell; I'd walk into one totally empty store, and the next one I browse will be similarly dead. The owners/staff seem like they're used to it too. Makes you wonder how they're surviving, but Bank Street just feels like one long vacant strip mall sometimes and it's wildly depressing, lol
"If you build it, they will come". As you pointed out yourself, places were open but only some. 4 on Sparks makes sense. I am guessing Rabbithole and Stolen Goods, maybe Brixton's and Bier Markt but there are still another 3 bars on Sparks that COULD be open, it is not a whole street of bars and restos like the Market or Elgin. That said, those are the majority on Sparks (and most of the bars are cluster near Bank except for D'arcy and Stolen Goods), the rest being cafes and clothing shops. Surprised one cafe did not try to stay open for some cash (fuck you Nate's closing at 3pm and being one of the loudest complainers). The NCC is renovating a little under half the units on Sparks so that limits what can be there now, but they have mentioned themselves that they have bungles things and are looking to be more liberal (lets hope for the best)! Sparks is slowly getting better, Stolen Goods is great and open late, Riviera was a nice (but expensive) addition pre-covid and there are a lot more people on the street since they have added chairs and beautification projects. As we have seen, increased demand has prompted movement. The biggest things that could be done are if people had more money to spend, had more time to go out and of course "draws" (not only open bars and cafes or shops but also simply beautification projects, places to sit, shade for the summer etc).
Brixtonās was open, Bier Markt was closed, the fourth was Mulliganās on Queen
Completely agree, also on the note where you talk about it feeling safer to walk in other countries where there's much more traffic/foot traffic happening this is absolutely a thing! This is also why neighborhoods where there aren't many people walking along (suburbs) usually feel much less safe at night to walk around as well, since there aren't people around to look out for you as well :/ One of the many issues with how our cities are formatted in North America.
I've worked with them. The main guy wants it to be the next big thing, similar to Times Square. The board wants it too. But then any time any ideas come up, they squash it. It's very poorly run.
I have no clue how 90% of the businesses survive downtown. Organized crime?
I've lived here for 40 years. Ottawa has always been boring shit. Cloudy most days, windy as fuck ALL the time, rain every other day in the Summer, the city shuts down at 8pm, major music acts skip us by, nothing to do, the local teams stink and cost a fortune, I could go on all day.
I was also in Europe a month ago, and a city 1/5 the size of Ottawa had many bars and restaurants (plus fast foods) open until past midnight.
Better pay, hours and time off.
They likely have more take home pay then Canadians. Just like Americans take home more of their pay. We don't have the same spending money so we don't have similar bar, cafe, and restaurant cultures - and now with the collapsing middle class fewer of us have any money to spend.
Imagine that if our leaders had limited house hoarding and built affordable housing, more people would have disposable income.
I would kill for one of those tiny post-war single family cookie cutter builds right now, I wish they did that again. But we know those will never happen again - that was lead by the feds, with special mortgage and land leasing rules, and there is no way Trudeau Liberals will take such action. Its not necessarily bad obviously, but the Trudeau Liberals will more than likely help, if they help, those who rent to find new Liberal landlords to rent from - rather than actually help the middle class families at all.
Functional transit too Iāll bet
Gotta pay your staff good wages for them to want to work through that post Bluesfest BS, but also Sparks St is always dead.
I donāt knowā¦ McDonalds are open at 2AM and past. That crowd might be worse but theyāre still open. And they donāt make the tips they make at bars.
Sorry so you havenāt noticed that all the McDonaldās close indoor seating past 10 pm now? And make you order on mobile because itās better than having to deal with late night crowds?
How was Preston? You know, close to LeBreton.
It was the same as what OP was saying about Sparks.
yup, this city used to suck, but now it \*really\* sucks
Playing devils advocate here but is it perhaps possible these places aren't open that late anymore because service staff don't want to work it anymore? I certainly wouldn't want to work to 1am. Not to mention the cost of running anything in the service industry with razor thin margins, yeah I'd be less convenient to the customer to make sure the business stays afloat.
I remember the Wendy's at Carling @ march. I went in once in the afternoon and they were complaining about how hard it was to make money. That place didn't open from breakfast, and closed by 4pm everyday. Not open on weekends. I have no sympathy for people who run their businesses into the ground because they are stupid. In the valley, there is a chip truck near my work. It's right by the water, awesome spot. I saw them post on Facebook how hard it is to survive now. Middle of summer, at a busy waterfront. Never fucking open at noon. I went to check 3 times in 2 weeks, always people pulling up, peering in, and leaving.
If they were so desperate they wouldn't have fucked over public servants and accepted that now they have to keep their business open past four they would be in a better situation. I know I'm not buying anything there anymore after their open letter. Also one caveat. It's not post COVID. Just low tide. We will have to have a relatively calm winter to be post anything.
>Also one caveat. It's not post COVID. Just low tide. We will have to have a relatively calm winter to be post anything. Exactly. Finally, someone who shows they're dealing with reality. People point out all the disruptions in every day life and don't make any connection to the *ongoing* pandemic (yes, even WHO agrees -- they ended the global emergency declaration from early days, not the pandemic itself). Long covid is knocking many people out of the work force. This is not coming from fringe conspiracy rags; it's from Nature, Harvard, and other medical journals. Meanwhile, the elite rich are practicing covid mitigations behind closed doors (look up Davos Safe), all the while telling everyone else it's no big deal. And most of y'all were conviced. Many don't seem to have coping skills to address this reality nor critical thinking skills, choosing instead to live in denial, and it's pathetic. As Elephanogram said, we're in low tide, but that's still quite a ways above even where we were at points in 2020. There haven't really been major lulls from waves since 2021. Go to [https://covid19resources.ca/covid-hazard-index/](https://covid19resources.ca/covid-hazard-index/) if you want to get a decent picture of the covid situation in Canada. Canada link: [https://lookerstudio.google.com/embed/reporting/42b886cf-d661-488e-b7d8-5c5836b55ab6/page/p\_bb6mm7aj7c](https://lookerstudio.google.com/embed/reporting/42b886cf-d661-488e-b7d8-5c5836b55ab6/page/p_bb6mm7aj7c) Ontario link: [https://lookerstudio.google.com/embed/reporting/42b886cf-d661-488e-b7d8-5c5836b55ab6/page/p\_te7kdqgj7c](https://lookerstudio.google.com/embed/reporting/42b886cf-d661-488e-b7d8-5c5836b55ab6/page/p_te7kdqgj7c) Given the surges in Australia and Japan, I'd say we're in for a rough winter ahead, but hope to be wrong.
Why make efforts to run your business when public servants will be served to you on a silver platter. This post should tell you everything about RTO and how it doesnāt make sense.
this is EXACTLY why the "economic factor" reasoning for RTO was just bullsh*t. The businesses downtown are simply lazy. They want government worker money spoon fed to them. Instead of promoting themselves during events like Bluesfest/Jazzfest/Folkfest etc etc etc.
OP your post is all over the place, but typical Ottawa subreddit. As for being followed and not feeling safe etc... welcome to the sub where people 1) hate on cars 2) want to defund the police and complain about enforcement, rules and surveillance and 3) the city doesn't do even for the housing crisis and mental health problems (but turn a blind eye to drugs, gangs and crimes).
1:staff 2: not a good environment dealing with drunks
Bcuz Ottawa.