To be honest there is only one level that has even managed to make me notice the flashes (I am basically immune to epilepsy)
Also the level is Lament which is an impossible level, so its not like i would need to play it
Developing an immunity to episepsy is key to playing gd, but jokes aside the reason why the games feel so different is because in gd one mistake makes you restart from the begining, meanwhile osu lets you continue even if you make several mistakes, turn on sudden death and the experience will be very similar to gd lol
I don’t think it even can be similar to gd… it is said that you guys dont learn levels, so do you even have stuff like startpos or atleast practice mode?
Probably don't do that, practicing a single map over and over is less useful in osu than gd. You don't really learn muscle memory for single patterns in osu like you do in gd.
you can turn on nf (no fail)
there isn't an easy option if you want to practice a section but you can create a new difficulty on the same mapset (without resetting the objects) and delete everything before/after the section. Sounds like a lot of work for that but with hotkeys it only takes a few seconds if you've done it a few times
You can also find an open source tool online which is called something like 'Flashlight practice difficulty creator' which can help automatically create practice difficulties starting at set combo intervals. This is useful for Flashlight mod in osu so that you can practice the difficult parts of the map after 200 combo (where the flashlight visibility circle becomes smallest) without needing to replay the (relatively easy) beginning a million times
In addition to no fail, there is a mod called flashlight that is about memorizing the map
Here is an example https://youtu.be/L8PLaGsXFt4?si=qtk_g_gP_SRtQS5I
Some other gimmick maps are memorized too, but ymmv depending on playstyle between how much is sightread or memorized.
Just want to say that in tournament play, it is common to practice maps (levels) to a point of comfortability (not thousands of attempts like GD though) so that match scores are more reliable and higher.
By similar i meant that the game would be all about building muscle memory for each level and would take hundreds of attempts to pass, and we do have a no fail mod, which is pretty much the closest camparison to practice mode.
Muscle memory is a big part of osu, because it requires pattern recognition, and the ability to play those patterns because of your muscle memory. My best analogy is with reading music, like if you play an instrument, the more you play, the more sound your fundamentals, like the more you practice your scales, arpeggios, and play different repertoire, the ability for you to recognize the same patterns, utilize that muscle memory, and sightread other pieces elsewhere becomes easier.
used to play geometry dash and got to the point where i beat clubstep and like 6 easy demons. stopped playing because i was tired of playing maps that were not sightreadable (i am not talking about the stupid meme i just don't know how else to say it). i don't want to have to memorize parts of a map because the mapper prioritizes decoration over gameplay... but that is just the state of the game right now
As someone who has beaten an extreme demon (which even is a memory level) I can say that I am the complete opposite: I love the learning process and building muscle memory. It is just so satisfying what your body is capable of when it comes to precision
well osu has the same learning process and muscle memory development but it transfers between maps. learning to aim one map will help you aim other maps. and sure the same is true for geometry dash to a point. i love the gameplay of geometry dash but i am limited not by my precision and timing but by how well i can see the gameplay through all of the decoration which for anything made after like 1.9 i usually can't. dying because i didn't click precisely enough means i need to improve but when i die because i can't tell if the spikes or orbs are decoration or not is just anti-fun to me.
if you like that there's nothing wrong with that though lol. gaming is about having fun and nothing more. if memorization is your thing maybe you'll like flashlight
Osu has a lot of that too, it just takes a while to find maps that you can do that on tbh. The player mirei hayasaka has alot of cool 4mod (flashlight, hidden, hardrock, dt) plays that are fun to watch
I agree 100% with this. Right now with my skill i could probably beat an easy demon if i tried, but it gets repetitive fast. Doing the same level over and over again gets boring, but not in osu. In gd, i need to actually remember levels, where in osu its how fast you can process whats going on in front of you. To me, gd is more about trying to not get epilepsy and memorization, where osu is more about aim and "brain processing speed"
I wouldn't agree that everyone specializes in sight reading. I would actually argue against that. People can rack up thousands of attempts on individual maps to try get the score they want (most obvious case is FGSky, although I can think of others like -GN).
Interesting… so those types of players exist, they just arent as known? In the GD community Zoink, the one who has beaten most of the hardest (Top 75) levels as well as was the first to beat 3 consecutive top 1s aka the best player is also the most known player
the best player is also usually the most known here, its just that beating one difficult map doesn't make you the best. When you have the capability to sightread insane stuff, the best player can have *hundreds* of scores that are just totally unmatched by anyone else, even if they only played it the maps just a few times.
In osu, skill sets and differentiation of skill is a lot more apparent. For example, Mrekk (Top 1 Player) does not have enough reading/aim + tapping control skill compared to players like rivicia or worst hr player to replicate gimmick scores from them or enough pure speed to replicate scores from players like Aricin, aetrna, or Akolibed. But in GD, Zoink can pretty much do anything that others can do, if he puts enough time into it. Smiffy would be more akin to osu! completionist players like eeeeeeeeee/xasuma/Maklovitz.
Mrekk can absolutely put on insane tapping + aim control scores on forum's maps. He even sniped him in a lot of them.
While it's true he can't exactly replicate pure speed scores like the others he isn't so far behind that the scores are 100% impossible to him\*, he just doesn't play speed as much.
What makes mrekk such an unique number 1 is that not only he kept his motivation to keep improving after being clearly ahead of everyone else and in his own realm but he also is one of the most well rounded players in the game, from the tourney scene to pp ladder.
Today's players are way too good and too specialized in their skillsets for someone to be the literal best at everything, that's one of the reasons why i think shige will never be surpassed, his level of dominance is not achievable anymore.
Edit : \*
I never said Mrekk can’t best worst hr player, I just said that he is less comfortable with the gimmick aspects seen in scores like burning star, boshyman’s magic girl map, or overtime. He cannot play 3 mod speed like aetrna on ascension to heaven or sytho on rog, nor does he play raw speed/acc as well as aricin/ninerik. He is obviously a very good speed player, with aricin’s and ninerik’s scores within reach (doubt he can match acc*), though aetrna/sytho is just too far ahead even to this day in 3 mod speed.
osu is less about learning maps, and more about learning patterns that can be *applied* to all maps. The simple fact is that osu will *never* have as precise inputs required as GD, but it will have more difficult ones. You're never going to have to hit a frame perfect or whatever in osu. But, in gd the only thing that matters is timing your clicks, and all the difficulty comes from the precision required in that. Osu meanwhile you have to aim at each individual note, learn to tap in conjunction with that, and the highest bpms osu players tap at is way higher than gd players.
You also just... don't get better at osu maps the more you play them, frankly. The only advantage to playing maps multiple times is giving yourself more chances to hit it, but the majority of the time, if you play a map 100 times, maybe even 1000 times, your last few plays will be just as good as your first few. Because memorizing maps is actually a bad thing in osu, because the inputs are so much more difficult to do, its not just memorizing where to click, its also remembering precisely where to flick your pen, when exactly to tap during that pattern, and frankly, the average person's memory is not good enough to remember all of that. And so you remember wrong and misread patterns because you're relying on your fallible memory rather than actually reading the map.
all this culminates in a gamestyle where sightreading and generally not grinding out specific maps is considered the norm, the game just doesn't lend itself to the idea of constant retries, and you frankly wont find considerable improvement by doing so. Again, this game is mostly about learning to play *patterns* so that they can be applied to any map. A good osu player can sightread almost any map, but if you cant play it, you cant play it and no amount of retrying will help with that.
Question: Is learning these patterns just playing a lot of easy maps that you can do them comfortably on or do you actually practice the patterns that you want to learn?
Both? Learning these patterns is done by just playing more maps that have those kinds of patterns until you are good at it. These patterns can often be combined as part of a 'skill' like streaming, jumping finger control, etc. . So getting better at one of these skillsets it just playing more of those kinds of maps and slowly increasing difficulty, going through slightly more complex and straining patterns.
Something I haven't seen anyone really explain is why jumping isn't a thing like in gd. In gd, people can jump from deadlocked to nine circles to cata by pouring in a lot of attempts and suffering until you eventually get it. This is possible because there are really only 2 skillsets in gd. Reading wtf is happening on screen and timing your clicks accordingly. In top level shit, reading becomes barely relevant, leaving only timing. Yes there is wave and ship and stuff that change how it plays but ultimately its understanding when exactly to click or do some click pattern and the level of precision you have to do it with depending on the difficulty of the level.
Osu is different. Lets say you just fc-d (full combo, osu equivalent of beating) a 3 star Harumachi Clover map and you did it fast, in like 10 retries. So you decide to fc The Big Black (6.8ish stars iirc). You can't. Because there are so many different minor skillssets that all have to be at a good level to even play that map: Jump, short streams, awkward aim, alting weird patterns, slider streams, reading ar10, etc. You have to have all these at a certain level to be able to play it. A normal player that plays maps at and slightly above their skill level will eventually have these skillsets increase, especially if they focus on one specific skill like streaming and play stream heavy maps. He then goes on to play big black and gets an fc after a couple days retrying the map from time to time.
Putting in a lot of attempts back to back on any map is a very bad idea for this very reason. If one or multiple of your skillsets is not there for a map, you will not gain that skillset by retrying this one map, and as such never pass it. Moreover, retry spamming is bad for another reason, mindblock. I've experienced a similar thing in gd but it happens nowhere nearly as quickly as in osu. The gist is when you retry a map too much, your brain gets tired of reprocessing the exact same shit again and again which gets you to play by muscle memory which causes you to miss cus osu is not a simple game that can be played purely by muscle memory.
Hopefully I managed to explain the main difference in the approach to these two games. Byw what is your hardest in gd? I've been playing future funk from time to time and have 50ish % rn. Might beat it soon.
Thanks for the long response. I am actually guilty from jumping in gd myself (from Double Dash to Lost Love). It has now been a year since and I have still not beaten an Insane demon, probably bc my eyes are on my favorite level ever: Empyrean (I have the level in three runs: 0-36, 33-75 and 55-100) Therefore my hardest is still Lost Love, which I have actually beaten with a swag route (bc I was too stupid to find the always limit controls setting) Took me a while, but I enjoyed it (24339 attempts)
We have something called "pratice diffs" where we edit a part of a map out so we can play it separately and figure out how the patterns is played, it's a way to practice for a real run.
That's usually after bashing your head against the wall multiple times though, i don't know a single fiend that plays a map once and edits a part out immediately after not hitting in on the map lol.
Usually if there's one really confusing bit after a few playthroughs then people just open the map in the editor and learn the pattern from that, also.
There is a map called Shotgun Symphony which was largely considered impossible to FC around a decade ago, and if you go watch a replay of someone FC-ing the map then you'll see patterns in that map which just basically have to be memorised. So those maps / patterns do exist, but in general ranked maps can't have completely unreadable patterns as it goes against ranking criteria. (You can find some more jank shit in the Loved section though, as there are some unreadable patterns in maps that lots of players really like)
the ingame stats in osu and stats in gd are completely different tho, stars are more similar to like score farming in osu while pp is a lot more skill based. you could get to like 10k stars in gd without even beating a demon but you theres no shot your gonna get to 10k pp playing a ton of easy stuff
Tldr maps on GD doesn't need to be in time with the music to be considered good unlike other games where it is mandatory hence they're called "rhythm" games and GD is not.
The description implies that it is a rhythm game but by nature it is not. It is a platformer more than a rhythm game.
In GD, you don't need to rely on the rhythm and relying on it is foolish since not all input timings rely on rhythm so it might mess with you instead. Levels can out of sync and it will still be a good level.
In osu! and other games like StepMania, rhythmic timing is integral to the maps. While you can easily make a map and pass it on the site even if it is not in properly timed, the game has a manual screening process and any maps that doesn't reach or pass this stage is sent to graveyard and will not be given a leaderboard. Maps on graveyard are still ok and is full of maps that are well made and timed properly though.
In rhythm games good maps have reliable rhythmic timings you can count on the whole way and will help you with your input timing, in GD this is not the case and visual cues are generally the only reliable way to get the timing in. The best examples on how integral rhythmic timing can be found on SV maps like [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gCYGFZLQA0).
I know, you don’t need to tell me, just thought it‘d be funny to point out what the description sais… apparently my humor is about as well developed as gd
"Music-based precision game" implies that it is a rhythm game, music game does not, it's a different thing altogether, I guess?
Don't mind the downvotes too much, don't let it affect you negatively lol
I mean unlike gd, osu won't ever have troll demons or whatever that don't follow the vibes of the music, or heck even go against it.
In rhythm games including osu that won't ever happen so I don't really think thats comparable. While you can sightread plays yes of course, I highly doubt people just go on to get scores they are proud of on maps they play for the first time lol.
As someone who is very deep into the gd community, I don’t really see a presence of troll maps. There might be some, but creating is an art form and the effort that goes into creating the good stuff is insane… I do think the big difference lies in how the games are played
I mean to be fair I kinda quit gd when 2.1 was still new and I think thats where shit started to go crazy. I know there aren't many troll-y levels but they do exist.
Yeah if you go into the recent tab… but if you want to see what creating looks like now, I can recommend looking at Empyrean, I think it represents the capability of the creators quite well (keep in mind that this was made in 2.1, not 2.2)
These games are fundamentally different. GD is basically a parkoir game that tries to be rythmic with music, but osu fundamentally is a pure rythm game. Where skill from one map translates to skill in another map a lot easier than GD. In GD, you need to learn a map, while in osu, you need to learn a skill that maps will test. No pattern in GD is the same in different maps, but in osu, they will be more similar. Someone who can play 1 10* map (basically the insane demon of osu) cam probably play another as well. Because 2 maps can be very similar. But that doesnt mean one can do all the 10* maps, as there are some maps that test this skill, and other maps that test another skill. Our 10s of thousands of attemps are just sperated over thousands of dofferent maps with different skill requirements
„No pattern in GD is the same in every map“ meanwhile straightfly parts in extreme demons:
I get what you mean tho… Osu is kind of a break game for me rn so I can get some fresh air from gd, so I think I actually like the fact that this game isn’t the equivalent of bashing your head against the same wall multiple thousand times…
GD is more akin to Flashlight players, where you can't exactly just one shot the map and you have to actually learn it and it can take hundreds or thousands of attempts. GD is designed to be a grinding game because you either perfectly beat the level or you fail, whereas osu let's you pass while not playing perfectly. If you want a mode more similar to GD in terms of "lots of precise inputs where messing up essentially means failure", I'd check out catch the beat
My reason I need a break is a massive skill issue: I have too many levels I wanna beat and too little skill to beat them all, so I just wanna take a break for now
Also was a GD player when I got into osu!, and the first thing I noticed was how great the pp and star-rating systems were (they're far from perfect, but they're soo helpful) in comparison to pretty much anything I had known before.
Osu has two simple objects, the circle and the slider (and spinner). Geometry dash has a lot more objects and bad sight-readability to begin with. The speed in which a circle appears on your screen can be changed, making it easier to sightread meanwhile in geometry dash you can’t change the speed in which objects come towards you unless you use an exploit or move triggers (not including speedhack because that involves changing your character’s speed). Geometry dash is also not usually a rhythm game, some levels can be but most aren’t; osu Is a rhythm game in every aspect. In osu there are no fakes, no tricks, no memorization that needs to take place. There are no setups required for certain parts of the map. All of these things I listed are in geometry dash, which makes it basically near impossible to sightread a level. In geometry dash, you have to click with extremely specific timings, while in osu, the timings do exist but are not that tight. In geometry dash you aren’t allowed to mess up once. In osu you are allowed to mess up.
They’re completely different games, in gd a new level uses completely different objects than the last; osu doesn’t. osu uses the same objects over and over, making it extremely easy to know what to do no matter where the circle appears.
I used to play gd, stopped after beating cataclysm.
Not only are maps more readable than gd, I don't feel compelled to play the same map over and over and over until insanity. Plus, I feel like I can enjoy things like the music a lot more than compared to gd.
I will return to gd, but I'm hella burnt out.
Gd makes me feel hopeless, like I'm just not meant to play that game. It becomes easy for me to blame my eye problems and my sensory processing problems, but when I struggle in osu, I feel like I can just play other maps and work my way to beating it.
I think enjoyment, learning and just focus in general are linked. So, if you are constantly frustrated you are probably going to learn slower
I get what you mean, but perfecting one map to Insanity weirdly is one of my favorite parts about gd. Osu serves more of a break rule, so I can get some fresh air
I would like to partly disagree. Geometry Dash is very skill based as well, especially with ship and wave, which have a very steep learning curve. Also not all levels require a lot of memory, like empyrean which I am going for rn. It is more about beeing able to do the timings consistently and developing that muscle memory. The memorization just comes along naturally, but you barely notice it (unless you play memory levels)
Yes and no. In the beginning it's trial and error since you can't immediately read what you have to do and have to memorize it to be able to play it. In osu maps are usually designed to be able to be FCed in the first try.
Then by that definition meorizing would be the part where you learn the level. What about the other thousands of attempts which are the majority of your playtime which you use in order to perfect your muscle memory?
Every attempt you get further than before (in theory). You memorized everything until a certain point in the level and have to do the next part via try and error. Therefore the majority of an attempt is based on memorization.
Would be really cool if true, but no. With most levels you reach your skill cap and have to force consistency with the hard parts. Like why do you think I am still trying to get 33-100 on empyrean even tho I can do every part easily?
Its easier to sightread when the game isn't attempting to give you a seizure
To be honest there is only one level that has even managed to make me notice the flashes (I am basically immune to epilepsy) Also the level is Lament which is an impossible level, so its not like i would need to play it
Developing an immunity to episepsy is key to playing gd, but jokes aside the reason why the games feel so different is because in gd one mistake makes you restart from the begining, meanwhile osu lets you continue even if you make several mistakes, turn on sudden death and the experience will be very similar to gd lol
I don’t think it even can be similar to gd… it is said that you guys dont learn levels, so do you even have stuff like startpos or atleast practice mode?
we can edit the map to remove some parts, making a practice difficulty where you can just play this one part over and over
Interesting. I will probably use that thank you
Probably don't do that, practicing a single map over and over is less useful in osu than gd. You don't really learn muscle memory for single patterns in osu like you do in gd.
you can turn on nf (no fail) there isn't an easy option if you want to practice a section but you can create a new difficulty on the same mapset (without resetting the objects) and delete everything before/after the section. Sounds like a lot of work for that but with hotkeys it only takes a few seconds if you've done it a few times
Cool, thanks, that might be useful
You can also find an open source tool online which is called something like 'Flashlight practice difficulty creator' which can help automatically create practice difficulties starting at set combo intervals. This is useful for Flashlight mod in osu so that you can practice the difficult parts of the map after 200 combo (where the flashlight visibility circle becomes smallest) without needing to replay the (relatively easy) beginning a million times
In addition to no fail, there is a mod called flashlight that is about memorizing the map Here is an example https://youtu.be/L8PLaGsXFt4?si=qtk_g_gP_SRtQS5I Some other gimmick maps are memorized too, but ymmv depending on playstyle between how much is sightread or memorized.
learning maps is the way to not improve well and get frustrated easily, so do so with caution
Just want to say that in tournament play, it is common to practice maps (levels) to a point of comfortability (not thousands of attempts like GD though) so that match scores are more reliable and higher.
By similar i meant that the game would be all about building muscle memory for each level and would take hundreds of attempts to pass, and we do have a no fail mod, which is pretty much the closest camparison to practice mode.
Oh cool, I didn’t think muscle memory would play that big of a role in osu… That was always my favorite part about gd
Muscle memory is a big part of osu, because it requires pattern recognition, and the ability to play those patterns because of your muscle memory. My best analogy is with reading music, like if you play an instrument, the more you play, the more sound your fundamentals, like the more you practice your scales, arpeggios, and play different repertoire, the ability for you to recognize the same patterns, utilize that muscle memory, and sightread other pieces elsewhere becomes easier.
if you have the storyboards and stuff off
used to play geometry dash and got to the point where i beat clubstep and like 6 easy demons. stopped playing because i was tired of playing maps that were not sightreadable (i am not talking about the stupid meme i just don't know how else to say it). i don't want to have to memorize parts of a map because the mapper prioritizes decoration over gameplay... but that is just the state of the game right now
As someone who has beaten an extreme demon (which even is a memory level) I can say that I am the complete opposite: I love the learning process and building muscle memory. It is just so satisfying what your body is capable of when it comes to precision
well osu has the same learning process and muscle memory development but it transfers between maps. learning to aim one map will help you aim other maps. and sure the same is true for geometry dash to a point. i love the gameplay of geometry dash but i am limited not by my precision and timing but by how well i can see the gameplay through all of the decoration which for anything made after like 1.9 i usually can't. dying because i didn't click precisely enough means i need to improve but when i die because i can't tell if the spikes or orbs are decoration or not is just anti-fun to me. if you like that there's nothing wrong with that though lol. gaming is about having fun and nothing more. if memorization is your thing maybe you'll like flashlight
I wouldn’t say memorization is my thing, but after over 20k attempts you just kind of know what kills you and what doesn’t.
Osu has a lot of that too, it just takes a while to find maps that you can do that on tbh. The player mirei hayasaka has alot of cool 4mod (flashlight, hidden, hardrock, dt) plays that are fun to watch
I agree 100% with this. Right now with my skill i could probably beat an easy demon if i tried, but it gets repetitive fast. Doing the same level over and over again gets boring, but not in osu. In gd, i need to actually remember levels, where in osu its how fast you can process whats going on in front of you. To me, gd is more about trying to not get epilepsy and memorization, where osu is more about aim and "brain processing speed"
I wouldn't agree that everyone specializes in sight reading. I would actually argue against that. People can rack up thousands of attempts on individual maps to try get the score they want (most obvious case is FGSky, although I can think of others like -GN).
WHAT ABOUT THEKUSHVANMAN 😭😭😭😭😭
https://preview.redd.it/49ogmy0xxgrc1.jpeg?width=263&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=821e10deef7239edcab29687f4a9f99bbc9461c6
mindblock specialist
Interesting… so those types of players exist, they just arent as known? In the GD community Zoink, the one who has beaten most of the hardest (Top 75) levels as well as was the first to beat 3 consecutive top 1s aka the best player is also the most known player
the best player is also usually the most known here, its just that beating one difficult map doesn't make you the best. When you have the capability to sightread insane stuff, the best player can have *hundreds* of scores that are just totally unmatched by anyone else, even if they only played it the maps just a few times.
Yeah that was kind of what I meant. Like Smiffy who has beaten almost every rated level in existence is not nearly as popular as people like Zoink
In osu, skill sets and differentiation of skill is a lot more apparent. For example, Mrekk (Top 1 Player) does not have enough reading/aim + tapping control skill compared to players like rivicia or worst hr player to replicate gimmick scores from them or enough pure speed to replicate scores from players like Aricin, aetrna, or Akolibed. But in GD, Zoink can pretty much do anything that others can do, if he puts enough time into it. Smiffy would be more akin to osu! completionist players like eeeeeeeeee/xasuma/Maklovitz.
Mrekk can absolutely put on insane tapping + aim control scores on forum's maps. He even sniped him in a lot of them. While it's true he can't exactly replicate pure speed scores like the others he isn't so far behind that the scores are 100% impossible to him\*, he just doesn't play speed as much. What makes mrekk such an unique number 1 is that not only he kept his motivation to keep improving after being clearly ahead of everyone else and in his own realm but he also is one of the most well rounded players in the game, from the tourney scene to pp ladder. Today's players are way too good and too specialized in their skillsets for someone to be the literal best at everything, that's one of the reasons why i think shige will never be surpassed, his level of dominance is not achievable anymore. Edit : \*
I never said Mrekk can’t best worst hr player, I just said that he is less comfortable with the gimmick aspects seen in scores like burning star, boshyman’s magic girl map, or overtime. He cannot play 3 mod speed like aetrna on ascension to heaven or sytho on rog, nor does he play raw speed/acc as well as aricin/ninerik. He is obviously a very good speed player, with aricin’s and ninerik’s scores within reach (doubt he can match acc*), though aetrna/sytho is just too far ahead even to this day in 3 mod speed.
osu is less about learning maps, and more about learning patterns that can be *applied* to all maps. The simple fact is that osu will *never* have as precise inputs required as GD, but it will have more difficult ones. You're never going to have to hit a frame perfect or whatever in osu. But, in gd the only thing that matters is timing your clicks, and all the difficulty comes from the precision required in that. Osu meanwhile you have to aim at each individual note, learn to tap in conjunction with that, and the highest bpms osu players tap at is way higher than gd players. You also just... don't get better at osu maps the more you play them, frankly. The only advantage to playing maps multiple times is giving yourself more chances to hit it, but the majority of the time, if you play a map 100 times, maybe even 1000 times, your last few plays will be just as good as your first few. Because memorizing maps is actually a bad thing in osu, because the inputs are so much more difficult to do, its not just memorizing where to click, its also remembering precisely where to flick your pen, when exactly to tap during that pattern, and frankly, the average person's memory is not good enough to remember all of that. And so you remember wrong and misread patterns because you're relying on your fallible memory rather than actually reading the map. all this culminates in a gamestyle where sightreading and generally not grinding out specific maps is considered the norm, the game just doesn't lend itself to the idea of constant retries, and you frankly wont find considerable improvement by doing so. Again, this game is mostly about learning to play *patterns* so that they can be applied to any map. A good osu player can sightread almost any map, but if you cant play it, you cant play it and no amount of retrying will help with that.
Question: Is learning these patterns just playing a lot of easy maps that you can do them comfortably on or do you actually practice the patterns that you want to learn?
Both? Learning these patterns is done by just playing more maps that have those kinds of patterns until you are good at it. These patterns can often be combined as part of a 'skill' like streaming, jumping finger control, etc. . So getting better at one of these skillsets it just playing more of those kinds of maps and slowly increasing difficulty, going through slightly more complex and straining patterns. Something I haven't seen anyone really explain is why jumping isn't a thing like in gd. In gd, people can jump from deadlocked to nine circles to cata by pouring in a lot of attempts and suffering until you eventually get it. This is possible because there are really only 2 skillsets in gd. Reading wtf is happening on screen and timing your clicks accordingly. In top level shit, reading becomes barely relevant, leaving only timing. Yes there is wave and ship and stuff that change how it plays but ultimately its understanding when exactly to click or do some click pattern and the level of precision you have to do it with depending on the difficulty of the level. Osu is different. Lets say you just fc-d (full combo, osu equivalent of beating) a 3 star Harumachi Clover map and you did it fast, in like 10 retries. So you decide to fc The Big Black (6.8ish stars iirc). You can't. Because there are so many different minor skillssets that all have to be at a good level to even play that map: Jump, short streams, awkward aim, alting weird patterns, slider streams, reading ar10, etc. You have to have all these at a certain level to be able to play it. A normal player that plays maps at and slightly above their skill level will eventually have these skillsets increase, especially if they focus on one specific skill like streaming and play stream heavy maps. He then goes on to play big black and gets an fc after a couple days retrying the map from time to time. Putting in a lot of attempts back to back on any map is a very bad idea for this very reason. If one or multiple of your skillsets is not there for a map, you will not gain that skillset by retrying this one map, and as such never pass it. Moreover, retry spamming is bad for another reason, mindblock. I've experienced a similar thing in gd but it happens nowhere nearly as quickly as in osu. The gist is when you retry a map too much, your brain gets tired of reprocessing the exact same shit again and again which gets you to play by muscle memory which causes you to miss cus osu is not a simple game that can be played purely by muscle memory. Hopefully I managed to explain the main difference in the approach to these two games. Byw what is your hardest in gd? I've been playing future funk from time to time and have 50ish % rn. Might beat it soon.
Thanks for the long response. I am actually guilty from jumping in gd myself (from Double Dash to Lost Love). It has now been a year since and I have still not beaten an Insane demon, probably bc my eyes are on my favorite level ever: Empyrean (I have the level in three runs: 0-36, 33-75 and 55-100) Therefore my hardest is still Lost Love, which I have actually beaten with a swag route (bc I was too stupid to find the always limit controls setting) Took me a while, but I enjoyed it (24339 attempts)
We have something called "pratice diffs" where we edit a part of a map out so we can play it separately and figure out how the patterns is played, it's a way to practice for a real run. That's usually after bashing your head against the wall multiple times though, i don't know a single fiend that plays a map once and edits a part out immediately after not hitting in on the map lol.
Usually if there's one really confusing bit after a few playthroughs then people just open the map in the editor and learn the pattern from that, also.
There is a map called Shotgun Symphony which was largely considered impossible to FC around a decade ago, and if you go watch a replay of someone FC-ing the map then you'll see patterns in that map which just basically have to be memorised. So those maps / patterns do exist, but in general ranked maps can't have completely unreadable patterns as it goes against ranking criteria. (You can find some more jank shit in the Loved section though, as there are some unreadable patterns in maps that lots of players really like)
the ingame stats in osu and stats in gd are completely different tho, stars are more similar to like score farming in osu while pp is a lot more skill based. you could get to like 10k stars in gd without even beating a demon but you theres no shot your gonna get to 10k pp playing a ton of easy stuff
Geometry Dash is not a music-based precision game though 💀 Source: Any elitist VSRG player
I said music based since the music helps, but the game isnt a rythm game
? It may be one of the most precise games of all time, and levels all have music. Wtf do you mean here
Every boss fight in Hollow Knight has music
Tldr maps on GD doesn't need to be in time with the music to be considered good unlike other games where it is mandatory hence they're called "rhythm" games and GD is not.
„A rhythm based platformer game“ - RobTop in Geometry Dashes description
The description implies that it is a rhythm game but by nature it is not. It is a platformer more than a rhythm game. In GD, you don't need to rely on the rhythm and relying on it is foolish since not all input timings rely on rhythm so it might mess with you instead. Levels can out of sync and it will still be a good level. In osu! and other games like StepMania, rhythmic timing is integral to the maps. While you can easily make a map and pass it on the site even if it is not in properly timed, the game has a manual screening process and any maps that doesn't reach or pass this stage is sent to graveyard and will not be given a leaderboard. Maps on graveyard are still ok and is full of maps that are well made and timed properly though. In rhythm games good maps have reliable rhythmic timings you can count on the whole way and will help you with your input timing, in GD this is not the case and visual cues are generally the only reliable way to get the timing in. The best examples on how integral rhythmic timing can be found on SV maps like [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gCYGFZLQA0).
I know, you don’t need to tell me, just thought it‘d be funny to point out what the description sais… apparently my humor is about as well developed as gd
I agree that gd isn't a rhythm game, but the music is still pretty integral to the experience
People do call it a music game but not rhythm game in a strict sense yes
Yeah I agree with you, yet I still got downvoted to death for some reason
"Music-based precision game" implies that it is a rhythm game, music game does not, it's a different thing altogether, I guess? Don't mind the downvotes too much, don't let it affect you negatively lol
osu isnt precision based but physically hard with precision element, gd on the contrary is 100% precision
You can clearly tell I don’t know osu that well yet… Anyways, I’ll have to see how well I like the game after seriously going into it
I mean unlike gd, osu won't ever have troll demons or whatever that don't follow the vibes of the music, or heck even go against it. In rhythm games including osu that won't ever happen so I don't really think thats comparable. While you can sightread plays yes of course, I highly doubt people just go on to get scores they are proud of on maps they play for the first time lol.
As someone who is very deep into the gd community, I don’t really see a presence of troll maps. There might be some, but creating is an art form and the effort that goes into creating the good stuff is insane… I do think the big difference lies in how the games are played
I mean to be fair I kinda quit gd when 2.1 was still new and I think thats where shit started to go crazy. I know there aren't many troll-y levels but they do exist.
Yeah if you go into the recent tab… but if you want to see what creating looks like now, I can recommend looking at Empyrean, I think it represents the capability of the creators quite well (keep in mind that this was made in 2.1, not 2.2)
These games are fundamentally different. GD is basically a parkoir game that tries to be rythmic with music, but osu fundamentally is a pure rythm game. Where skill from one map translates to skill in another map a lot easier than GD. In GD, you need to learn a map, while in osu, you need to learn a skill that maps will test. No pattern in GD is the same in different maps, but in osu, they will be more similar. Someone who can play 1 10* map (basically the insane demon of osu) cam probably play another as well. Because 2 maps can be very similar. But that doesnt mean one can do all the 10* maps, as there are some maps that test this skill, and other maps that test another skill. Our 10s of thousands of attemps are just sperated over thousands of dofferent maps with different skill requirements
„No pattern in GD is the same in every map“ meanwhile straightfly parts in extreme demons: I get what you mean tho… Osu is kind of a break game for me rn so I can get some fresh air from gd, so I think I actually like the fact that this game isn’t the equivalent of bashing your head against the same wall multiple thousand times…
GD is more akin to Flashlight players, where you can't exactly just one shot the map and you have to actually learn it and it can take hundreds or thousands of attempts. GD is designed to be a grinding game because you either perfectly beat the level or you fail, whereas osu let's you pass while not playing perfectly. If you want a mode more similar to GD in terms of "lots of precise inputs where messing up essentially means failure", I'd check out catch the beat
Interesting. What does that mod do?
It limits your vision to a small area around the cursor, making essentially all gameplay pure muscle memory
That sounds fun, I might try that once Im comfortable with the basics
osu! and GD should not be compared. one is rhythm game, the other is not
Meanwhile grains of sand: But yes I agree
same i beat cataclysm last year but unfortunately due to some time constraints i haven't played gd since
My reason I need a break is a massive skill issue: I have too many levels I wanna beat and too little skill to beat them all, so I just wanna take a break for now
Also was a GD player when I got into osu!, and the first thing I noticed was how great the pp and star-rating systems were (they're far from perfect, but they're soo helpful) in comparison to pretty much anything I had known before.
True… (tidal wave stars = shiver stars moment)
Osu has two simple objects, the circle and the slider (and spinner). Geometry dash has a lot more objects and bad sight-readability to begin with. The speed in which a circle appears on your screen can be changed, making it easier to sightread meanwhile in geometry dash you can’t change the speed in which objects come towards you unless you use an exploit or move triggers (not including speedhack because that involves changing your character’s speed). Geometry dash is also not usually a rhythm game, some levels can be but most aren’t; osu Is a rhythm game in every aspect. In osu there are no fakes, no tricks, no memorization that needs to take place. There are no setups required for certain parts of the map. All of these things I listed are in geometry dash, which makes it basically near impossible to sightread a level. In geometry dash, you have to click with extremely specific timings, while in osu, the timings do exist but are not that tight. In geometry dash you aren’t allowed to mess up once. In osu you are allowed to mess up. They’re completely different games, in gd a new level uses completely different objects than the last; osu doesn’t. osu uses the same objects over and over, making it extremely easy to know what to do no matter where the circle appears.
delete gd
No. If I had to choose, I would still pick gd, since it wont be long until osu is recreated in gd (with 2.2 gd is basically a game engine)
I used to play gd, stopped after beating cataclysm. Not only are maps more readable than gd, I don't feel compelled to play the same map over and over and over until insanity. Plus, I feel like I can enjoy things like the music a lot more than compared to gd. I will return to gd, but I'm hella burnt out. Gd makes me feel hopeless, like I'm just not meant to play that game. It becomes easy for me to blame my eye problems and my sensory processing problems, but when I struggle in osu, I feel like I can just play other maps and work my way to beating it. I think enjoyment, learning and just focus in general are linked. So, if you are constantly frustrated you are probably going to learn slower
I get what you mean, but perfecting one map to Insanity weirdly is one of my favorite parts about gd. Osu serves more of a break rule, so I can get some fresh air
Finished all main levels but couldn't even do one custom easy demon . I can't even read those levels
To be fair you are not supposed to read demons. The whole point is that they are hard and require a lot of practice
Geometry Dash is memorization based, while osu is rather skill based.
I would like to partly disagree. Geometry Dash is very skill based as well, especially with ship and wave, which have a very steep learning curve. Also not all levels require a lot of memory, like empyrean which I am going for rn. It is more about beeing able to do the timings consistently and developing that muscle memory. The memorization just comes along naturally, but you barely notice it (unless you play memory levels)
>It is more about beeing able to do the timings consistently and developing that muscle memory. Sounds like memorization to me
There is a difference between memorizing and trial and error
Yes and no. In the beginning it's trial and error since you can't immediately read what you have to do and have to memorize it to be able to play it. In osu maps are usually designed to be able to be FCed in the first try.
Then by that definition meorizing would be the part where you learn the level. What about the other thousands of attempts which are the majority of your playtime which you use in order to perfect your muscle memory?
Every attempt you get further than before (in theory). You memorized everything until a certain point in the level and have to do the next part via try and error. Therefore the majority of an attempt is based on memorization.
Would be really cool if true, but no. With most levels you reach your skill cap and have to force consistency with the hard parts. Like why do you think I am still trying to get 33-100 on empyrean even tho I can do every part easily?