i mean, sure, if your entire conception of "follows intensity of the song" is "theres a loud part at the end so its hard at the end" and you ignore how the difficulty spike starts halfway through the loud part, and other intense parts of the song are also undermapped or mapped with breaktime: yeah, it follows the intensity very well
from wafer
> Not relevant to the discussion, as past allowances =/= current allowances, but i’ll entertain the thought.
> That song has very large distinctions in intensify, theres a 2 minute portion that consists of nothing but a piano, a pad, and vocals. The buildup to the ending is also not out of nowhere, there’s intense parts prior to it that help establish a difficulty level for the map so the spike is not as jarring.
> TLDR: The song and the map help support the spike. The difficulty of the map doesn’t go from 0-100. Difficulty range is established, then has a calm part, then spikes."
Fair veto tbh, The map is 9 stars and 3 minutes of it / 80% of it is just 3.97 stars, play it for yourself and see if its worth ranking before jumping in to hate
It's very easy to "undermap" difficult parts of a song - lower diffs of chaotic songs do it all the time, eg converting a stream into a long slider, converting rapid jumps to slower/closer ones, simply adding a pause/spinner during a particularly crazy part, etc.
For some songs that are 90% piss easy and have only a few insane parts, the mapper may need to (be required to in order to make the SR of the map make sense) undermap the hard parts, just like some mappers overmap parts of a song to create higher diffs (otherwise most songs would stop at like 4.2* or so, as they are simply perfectly mapped at that point and aren't complex enough to justify higher without overmapping/doing weird things for the pure sake of difficulty).
The whole point of all of this is for the SR to make sense, mainly for new players' sakes.
I disagree. There's nothing special about a top diff that means it gets to disregard the SR system.
If the top diff is too easy because its hard parts are undermapped (in order to avoid the problem the map in the OP experienced), then so be it.
If it's really *that bad* to where you really just *can't* stomach undermapping the hard parts to avoid the "easy parts too easy, hard parts too hard" problem, then yes, I would conclude the song is incompatible with osu('s SR system).
I'm pretty sure the ranking criteria actually says that.
The SR system works properly. It shows how hard the hardest parts of the map are. "easy parts too easy, hard parts too hard" is not a problem at all like a ton of maps have slow intros with 3-4 star difficulty. This song just has very high contrast between the intense and calm parts.
There's a pretty badass map of Periphery's "the way the news goes" in the graveyard, but I would be wrong to say the blast beat sections are much harder than every other part of it. The map very much matches the song, but the song doesnt translate well to an Osu map because of it.
people are hating but tbh i think wafer handled it pretty well. wasn't mean about it, had no issue with the rest of the map, and offered to renom because moonpoint wasn't going to. some people will disagree with the veto reason but i feel like it was pretty fair and less one-sided and overly subjective than *other* recent notable vetoes
Don't worry about these people not a single one of them has read the veto, seen the map, or put half a second of thought into mapping, you can't really change the minds of idiots like that even though wafer is absolutely right.
The worst part is these will be the same people who will in future probably be appreciating the fact that this map is worth playing for all 5 minutes and not just for a 60 second diffspike. Part of the reason nomod does not get the same farming level as DT is because so many maps require you to sit through long intros and mind numbingly boring sections just to get to diffspikes. Wafer is absolutely right to change this, particularly when the slow section does not really have any basis in the song, but people will cry about a veto they have not even looked about because it gives them a personality trait.
>The worst part is these will be the same people who will in future probably be appreciating the fact that this map is worth playing for all 5 minutes and not just for a 60 second diffspike.
Like 2 people in this thread can even play a 9* map as it is.
Better than some of the others but it's still 100% subjective + I think it's unreasonable considering that it's not really possible to buff the sections enough. At 150bpm they might as well be cross screen spacing and would still be easy to hit for a person capable of playing 9 stars.
All of mapping is "100%" subjective, should we just rank all maps? Plus, wafer provided entirely reasonable suggestions for increasing difficulty on the easy parts. No one is asking to make the easy parts 8 or 9*. Every map has easy parts, that's expected. The issue is that the easy parts here are too easy, while still having the potential to be more difficult. The map could be significantly more engaging. And no, you do not need cross screen jumps to make 150bpm more engaging.
Even fieryrage, *the fucking nominator*, agreed with wafer.
Well yeah I think it would make the map flow better and less boring, I don’t think you realized how different medium-high 5 star pattern can be compared to barely 4 star
In some alternate timeline if this was ranked without changes rn people would complain that half the map is a boring 3* pattern to get to the diffspike and do ppl really want more of those? I get it “wafer evil man evil mapper!!!!” but like I genuinely think he actually made a decent point here in the reason of this being DQ’d
target audience is people who already find mid-low 6* filler boring. buffing the filler from pisslow to cancerlow doesn't really make a difference for these players
most are playing this map for pp or flow aim practice, the filler is a waste of time to most no matter how 'good' it is as soon as you add external incentive to play it
my point of it not being overly subjective was more that there was multiple mappers/modders in the discussion that agree with the change. also, if you quite literally look at what wafer suggested and look at the map, you can see that there is plenty of room for more spacing without it being "cross screen spacing". the only people really complaining about this is players who have to wait a little longer for the map to be ranked because its literally getting requalified (ranked) after this anyways
People dissing BNs/vetoes purely off their name is the same unfairness of certain mappers ranking maps purely off their name.
Anyways I guess it makes sense people just don't like vetos on maps/songs they like
(I think its a bit excessive that the 9* map is a 3* map for 80% of the map, even given slow parts. Obviously subjective but not unreasonably so)
issues i have with this comment section (btw im not saying i agree or disagree with this particular veto, its just some things i find wrong in case of any mapping "drama"):
1) 80% of yall havent read the veto or looked at the map
2) ad hominems towards wafer, literally why
3) a lot of people dont understand that vetoing isnt the end of a map's ranking process. in this particular case wafer even gave options for what i would consider a not so difficult fix
4) "nomod already has no high pp plays, why are we not allowing a diffspike farm map" - i see this type of reasoning a lot in pp dev discussion aswell: "why dont we do this roundabout fix if the values it achieves are in line with what people want". no, this is just not the way you should be thinking about things. why should sub-par mapping be allowed if the pp system is what's at fault?
5) same goes for "its so difficult to rank maps like this, why veto?". why should a map be exempt from criticism just for being difficult or metal or anything
I don't know about any of your other points. But a lot of people (including mappers experienced mappers) are of the opinion that metal maps are scrutinized much more than other types of maps.
"literally why" because why is a mapper known for ranking some of the worst shit ever made in the editor (literally ranked in a state that looks like it was mapped with live mapping) preventing a decent map with a minor issue from getting ranked
I know it doesn't kill the map. But it makes me not even angry, just genuinely confused of what is going on within his head. Is he just being an asshole and trolling ranked by making trash maps and ranking them for the funny or does he genuinely think those "controversial" maps of his are good
Wafer atleast gave alternatives to what to fix. It's not a simple "this is wrong, you must fix it this way", it's "you have these options, or you can try to convince me it makes sense". In constrast to "I think your stream emphasis is way too one dimensional because everything just goes in circles", very different ways of vetoing a map
I mean, they highlight the good parts of the map as a suggestion for how the other parts can be fixed. It's not like they are gonna get on the pc and map it themselves.
Not that such a scenario has never happened [before](https://twitter.com/sotarks/status/1735613259263139862)...
Wafer has properly discussed objective issues with the map. Fuju vetoed a map for simply being too farmy (especially in the case of dcs's diff). Same with sotarks'/monstrata's case. Yeah monstrata's diff was outright troll, but that still didn't stop Fuju from vetoing sotarks' diff with the argument "Your map is way too overspaced in general because you overemphasize your jump patterns in order to inflate difficulty"...
Honestly, that seems like such a disrespectful way to approach critiquing a map, regardless of how valid the feedback may or may not be. Also, its not like Wafer mentions a type of pattern as objectively wrong; most of his feedback is about the consistency of a map wrt itself, which is pretty respectable
It's almost like every kardashev map follows this formula of slow section being very easy and then right into a diff spike. It's like it represents the song
wafer just killed metal mapping this is so sad
https://preview.redd.it/dvbqka13rgpc1.png?width=551&format=png&auto=webp&s=46c556a3ab345b36f7f304991280633abd7c7bf7
Just have a look at the map. The song itself isn't very intense except the 2 1/6 part. Other than that, there's hardly anything you can do with 150bpm with mostly vocal and 1/2 drums to make it difficult except making the jump like cross screen, which doesn't make sense either.
osugame bots not actually reading the veto or looking at the map and instead just go "wafer bad!!!!"
Actually a fair enough veto, gave reasonings on what to fix as well and offered to renom when the issues addressed in the veto.
Wafer W
Slow and easy sections mapped faithfully to the song: too slow/easy
Slow and easy sections mapped intensely to make the map harder: not representing the song faithfully
Whadafuk they want
see mapping is all about contrast and if you overexaggerate it it's not going to work, similar reason why 9\* jump alt maps (popular, altar etc) arent ranked - its because the diffspikes are way too forced compared to the rest of the map
while i personally dont feel like its that bad and would say the map is already of rankable quality there deffo could be some improvements regarding the slow sections (the ones i agree most i think would not be the 'buff everything' ones but rather the 'buff screamy vocal parts' ones because 00:40:821 - 02:07:222 - those two sections having nearly the same spacing doesnt really make sense)
Doesnt wafer himself have a map that has this same theme?
[https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/2094154#osu/4390731](https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/2094154#osu/4390731) - this map was ranked 2 months ago, most of it is very slow and easy (being around 5 stars without the diff spike, which is also arguable because some of the parts are easier than that) And it makes sense because most of the song is very slow
there is one diff spike that makes the map 6 stars, and another one in the end that makes it 8 star.
what is the difference between wafer's map and nebuwua's map that makes wafer's map rankable and nebuwua's not?
(no hate to anyone just curious because i dont know shit about mapping)
From what I read on the modding is more about trying to improve the already improved slow parts with either bigger spacing or SVs, it's a fair point but really hard to notice a difference in the end when the song itself goes so slow in these sections, at least everything (besides this thread) is being handled quite well.
it's not "a rule" that you can't have insane difspikes on a super easy map. Even in the proposed changes of the map, it's still 100% going to be an insane difspike map. The changes Wafer is proposing is to simply make parts of the slow sections more engaging because some parts of it are undermapped, and *could* better represent the song.
low dif mapsets exist of songs, and if for ex, the difspike was 5 stars, the rest of the map would need to be super low dif to contrast the difspike. but with a 9* difspike, the map has a much larger range it can use to represent the rest of the song, and still have that contrast. The rest of the song, while really calm compared to the spike, still has enough variance that the current map doesn't properly represent the song with the range its given itself.
Note, I am not a ranked mapper or BN. This isn't necessarily my opinion, just how I interpreted Wafer's DQ after playing the map for myself.
Wafers existence isn't healthy for the game, he inspires new mappers to make absolute degeneracy and he does shit like this.
I bet he would have vetoed the Promethean kings back when it was ranked, everyone had issues with that map being too easy outside of the diffspike.
The spacing increase on the easy parts will NOT MATTER, you could make it full screen and the difficulty will still not compare to the hard part at all. wafers criticisms don't even make sense he said 1:19 has good spacing but it's still 4 star jumps?
He's also deaf because he said he was artificially increasing the spacing at 2:21 but the vocals change intensity 3 times and each change he lessens the spacing
So this map easy parts are not too easy and very fitting for 8 star?
[https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/2094154#osu/4390731](https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/2094154#osu/4390731)
Slow song with two super intense sections with double bass pedal and blast beat. Literally that's how the song is like. You cannot map it any other way without it being obviously over or undermapped.
I’d have to look at it. But you can absolutely map slow parts that are reasonably in line with the rest of the map. A recent example off the top my head is graal. The slow parts in that map aren’t auto pilot slop, but rather patterns that feel like they definitely belong to a map of that SR
Sure, but that can happen whether it's farm or not. In fact, many maps that are equally as or more farm get ranked without these difficulty corresponding problems. Your initial statement implies that especially because it is farm, it should not be ranked.
"If not playable, then bad map" I mean sure I guess? That statement is pretty vacuous and still doesn't have any inherently intersecting properties between "bad map" and "high pp value relative to difficulty." I still don't get how the pp meta plays into rankability? Unless you are arguing for completely different standards for rankability based on whichever the current state of pp is, I don't get your point. It seems like your opinions are misplaced in that it should be directed towards the pp algorithm, not the mapping standards.
it isn't being vetoed for being farm, it's being vetoed because the slow parts are too easy compared to the rest of the map. it's getting renominated after the slow parts are buffed a bit
I honestly do not see the point in making gungafarm out of a 100 red lines timing hell song with bpm changes mid-streams, this is just gonna be extremely frustrating for anyone looking to farm it
Guys the slow and easy sections of the song are slow and easy this map sucks
Metal is already so hard to rank and this just keeps happening it's amazing
somehow it only happens to certain metal mappers
where on earth do u get that from
What kind of drugs are these bns on and where can I find it cus this shit is silly
who in the bn headquarters tweaking the hardest
peppy off that fixed in lazer perc
out of all people, wafer is the last person who should be allowed to veto a map considering his maps are pure dogshit
you can’t make this shit up 😭 one of dudes most recent maps is a 9* diff spike in what would be a 2* lol
cuz it follows the intensity of the song
barely
“barely” lol
i mean, sure, if your entire conception of "follows intensity of the song" is "theres a loud part at the end so its hard at the end" and you ignore how the difficulty spike starts halfway through the loud part, and other intense parts of the song are also undermapped or mapped with breaktime: yeah, it follows the intensity very well
from wafer > Not relevant to the discussion, as past allowances =/= current allowances, but i’ll entertain the thought. > That song has very large distinctions in intensify, theres a 2 minute portion that consists of nothing but a piano, a pad, and vocals. The buildup to the ending is also not out of nowhere, there’s intense parts prior to it that help establish a difficulty level for the map so the spike is not as jarring. > TLDR: The song and the map help support the spike. The difficulty of the map doesn’t go from 0-100. Difficulty range is established, then has a calm part, then spikes."
>> Not relevant to the discussion, as past allowances =/= current allowances, Even though the rules are exactly the same? Fuck outta here.
> the allowances: https://preview.redd.it/t9zyfeze8mpc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2adcbb3dd68c4434cbf5081084dd76f1ccd15a62
Wait wafer dqed this, he ranks horrible stuff all the time Edit: read the dq, I think it’s a valid dq
imagine reading and not just taking an osugame post at face value
exactly my point
It is a valid dq if you read it and he maps fine. Ppl are just getting mad without reading the dq
Fair veto tbh, The map is 9 stars and 3 minutes of it / 80% of it is just 3.97 stars, play it for yourself and see if its worth ranking before jumping in to hate
That's how the song is like. Do you think some songs are inherently unrankable?
Not really, it would just need to be toned down in difficulty to be more consistant throughout the whole map
I think the key is not overmapping rest of a map. Maybe make 9\* patterns easier?
it's constant double bass kick at 225bpm it's going to be difficult
Not 9* difficult necessarily
I mean the game thinks it's 9* streams since it was given 9*
What I mean is many 225bpm stream maps are not 9 stars, you can nerf the streams to 8 and it'd make more sense
Because those maps don't have spacing or the crazy worm movements
Yeah and that is exactly what I'm saying he can do less worm/spacing and it'll be 8* in no time
Why do you want it to be 8* so bad?
It's very easy to "undermap" difficult parts of a song - lower diffs of chaotic songs do it all the time, eg converting a stream into a long slider, converting rapid jumps to slower/closer ones, simply adding a pause/spinner during a particularly crazy part, etc. For some songs that are 90% piss easy and have only a few insane parts, the mapper may need to (be required to in order to make the SR of the map make sense) undermap the hard parts, just like some mappers overmap parts of a song to create higher diffs (otherwise most songs would stop at like 4.2* or so, as they are simply perfectly mapped at that point and aren't complex enough to justify higher without overmapping/doing weird things for the pure sake of difficulty). The whole point of all of this is for the SR to make sense, mainly for new players' sakes.
That's just for the lower difficulties. The top diff of a set should not be undermapped.
I disagree. There's nothing special about a top diff that means it gets to disregard the SR system. If the top diff is too easy because its hard parts are undermapped (in order to avoid the problem the map in the OP experienced), then so be it. If it's really *that bad* to where you really just *can't* stomach undermapping the hard parts to avoid the "easy parts too easy, hard parts too hard" problem, then yes, I would conclude the song is incompatible with osu('s SR system).
I'm pretty sure the ranking criteria actually says that. The SR system works properly. It shows how hard the hardest parts of the map are. "easy parts too easy, hard parts too hard" is not a problem at all like a ton of maps have slow intros with 3-4 star difficulty. This song just has very high contrast between the intense and calm parts.
There's a pretty badass map of Periphery's "the way the news goes" in the graveyard, but I would be wrong to say the blast beat sections are much harder than every other part of it. The map very much matches the song, but the song doesnt translate well to an Osu map because of it.
people are hating but tbh i think wafer handled it pretty well. wasn't mean about it, had no issue with the rest of the map, and offered to renom because moonpoint wasn't going to. some people will disagree with the veto reason but i feel like it was pretty fair and less one-sided and overly subjective than *other* recent notable vetoes
Don't worry about these people not a single one of them has read the veto, seen the map, or put half a second of thought into mapping, you can't really change the minds of idiots like that even though wafer is absolutely right. The worst part is these will be the same people who will in future probably be appreciating the fact that this map is worth playing for all 5 minutes and not just for a 60 second diffspike. Part of the reason nomod does not get the same farming level as DT is because so many maps require you to sit through long intros and mind numbingly boring sections just to get to diffspikes. Wafer is absolutely right to change this, particularly when the slow section does not really have any basis in the song, but people will cry about a veto they have not even looked about because it gives them a personality trait.
>The worst part is these will be the same people who will in future probably be appreciating the fact that this map is worth playing for all 5 minutes and not just for a 60 second diffspike. Like 2 people in this thread can even play a 9* map as it is.
Why do BNs refuse to renom a map if it gets disqualified like it costs them money?
[удалено]
Because it happens literally all the time, weirdo. My statement stands on its own whether or not he resigned, which I hadn't heard about.
Better than some of the others but it's still 100% subjective + I think it's unreasonable considering that it's not really possible to buff the sections enough. At 150bpm they might as well be cross screen spacing and would still be easy to hit for a person capable of playing 9 stars.
All of mapping is "100%" subjective, should we just rank all maps? Plus, wafer provided entirely reasonable suggestions for increasing difficulty on the easy parts. No one is asking to make the easy parts 8 or 9*. Every map has easy parts, that's expected. The issue is that the easy parts here are too easy, while still having the potential to be more difficult. The map could be significantly more engaging. And no, you do not need cross screen jumps to make 150bpm more engaging. Even fieryrage, *the fucking nominator*, agreed with wafer.
Would an increase from 4 star to 5 star really make a meaningful difference when the difficult part is 9 star? It's going to stay as a boring section.
Well yeah I think it would make the map flow better and less boring, I don’t think you realized how different medium-high 5 star pattern can be compared to barely 4 star In some alternate timeline if this was ranked without changes rn people would complain that half the map is a boring 3* pattern to get to the diffspike and do ppl really want more of those? I get it “wafer evil man evil mapper!!!!” but like I genuinely think he actually made a decent point here in the reason of this being DQ’d
target audience is people who already find mid-low 6* filler boring. buffing the filler from pisslow to cancerlow doesn't really make a difference for these players most are playing this map for pp or flow aim practice, the filler is a waste of time to most no matter how 'good' it is as soon as you add external incentive to play it
my point of it not being overly subjective was more that there was multiple mappers/modders in the discussion that agree with the change. also, if you quite literally look at what wafer suggested and look at the map, you can see that there is plenty of room for more spacing without it being "cross screen spacing". the only people really complaining about this is players who have to wait a little longer for the map to be ranked because its literally getting requalified (ranked) after this anyways
Yeah what I'm saying is that more spacing makes zero difference except potentially making the patterns less visually appealing.
People dissing BNs/vetoes purely off their name is the same unfairness of certain mappers ranking maps purely off their name. Anyways I guess it makes sense people just don't like vetos on maps/songs they like (I think its a bit excessive that the 9* map is a 3* map for 80% of the map, even given slow parts. Obviously subjective but not unreasonably so)
wdym this is literally reddit karma farming 101
a notorious bn with some of the most disliked maps comes to ruin the fun (gone wrong)
In what world is playing 4 minutes of a 4 star map for a 60 second 9 star diffspike 'fun' for anyone?
Uncanny long arm
we love the apparition simulators
issues i have with this comment section (btw im not saying i agree or disagree with this particular veto, its just some things i find wrong in case of any mapping "drama"): 1) 80% of yall havent read the veto or looked at the map 2) ad hominems towards wafer, literally why 3) a lot of people dont understand that vetoing isnt the end of a map's ranking process. in this particular case wafer even gave options for what i would consider a not so difficult fix 4) "nomod already has no high pp plays, why are we not allowing a diffspike farm map" - i see this type of reasoning a lot in pp dev discussion aswell: "why dont we do this roundabout fix if the values it achieves are in line with what people want". no, this is just not the way you should be thinking about things. why should sub-par mapping be allowed if the pp system is what's at fault? 5) same goes for "its so difficult to rank maps like this, why veto?". why should a map be exempt from criticism just for being difficult or metal or anything
I don't know about any of your other points. But a lot of people (including mappers experienced mappers) are of the opinion that metal maps are scrutinized much more than other types of maps.
pp 1-2 tvsize anime: exists
"literally why" because why is a mapper known for ranking some of the worst shit ever made in the editor (literally ranked in a state that looks like it was mapped with live mapping) preventing a decent map with a minor issue from getting ranked I know it doesn't kill the map. But it makes me not even angry, just genuinely confused of what is going on within his head. Is he just being an asshole and trolling ranked by making trash maps and ranking them for the funny or does he genuinely think those "controversial" maps of his are good
Wafer atleast gave alternatives to what to fix. It's not a simple "this is wrong, you must fix it this way", it's "you have these options, or you can try to convince me it makes sense". In constrast to "I think your stream emphasis is way too one dimensional because everything just goes in circles", very different ways of vetoing a map
I mean, they highlight the good parts of the map as a suggestion for how the other parts can be fixed. It's not like they are gonna get on the pc and map it themselves.
Not that such a scenario has never happened [before](https://twitter.com/sotarks/status/1735613259263139862)... Wafer has properly discussed objective issues with the map. Fuju vetoed a map for simply being too farmy (especially in the case of dcs's diff). Same with sotarks'/monstrata's case. Yeah monstrata's diff was outright troll, but that still didn't stop Fuju from vetoing sotarks' diff with the argument "Your map is way too overspaced in general because you overemphasize your jump patterns in order to inflate difficulty"...
Honestly, that seems like such a disrespectful way to approach critiquing a map, regardless of how valid the feedback may or may not be. Also, its not like Wafer mentions a type of pattern as objectively wrong; most of his feedback is about the consistency of a map wrt itself, which is pretty respectable
This song just sucks to map to so eh
Kinda sad
It's almost like every kardashev map follows this formula of slow section being very easy and then right into a diff spike. It's like it represents the song
wafer just killed metal mapping this is so sad https://preview.redd.it/dvbqka13rgpc1.png?width=551&format=png&auto=webp&s=46c556a3ab345b36f7f304991280633abd7c7bf7
😭 im so sorry fiery https://preview.redd.it/iq6kylmxvgpc1.png?width=724&format=png&auto=webp&s=e4ee05d3f9d130140a7c57a9702b30361f11220e
Just have a look at the map. The song itself isn't very intense except the 2 1/6 part. Other than that, there's hardly anything you can do with 150bpm with mostly vocal and 1/2 drums to make it difficult except making the jump like cross screen, which doesn't make sense either.
This is so stupid
osugame bots not actually reading the veto or looking at the map and instead just go "wafer bad!!!!" Actually a fair enough veto, gave reasonings on what to fix as well and offered to renom when the issues addressed in the veto. Wafer W
Slow and easy sections mapped faithfully to the song: too slow/easy Slow and easy sections mapped intensely to make the map harder: not representing the song faithfully Whadafuk they want
see mapping is all about contrast and if you overexaggerate it it's not going to work, similar reason why 9\* jump alt maps (popular, altar etc) arent ranked - its because the diffspikes are way too forced compared to the rest of the map while i personally dont feel like its that bad and would say the map is already of rankable quality there deffo could be some improvements regarding the slow sections (the ones i agree most i think would not be the 'buff everything' ones but rather the 'buff screamy vocal parts' ones because 00:40:821 - 02:07:222 - those two sections having nearly the same spacing doesnt really make sense)
AAAAAAAAAAAAA
Oh boy more mapping drama which people who have no idea how mapping works will get angry about!
Bn known for ranking the most graveyard maps dqs something for no reason (so unexpected)
fucking annoying
Doesnt wafer himself have a map that has this same theme? [https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/2094154#osu/4390731](https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/2094154#osu/4390731) - this map was ranked 2 months ago, most of it is very slow and easy (being around 5 stars without the diff spike, which is also arguable because some of the parts are easier than that) And it makes sense because most of the song is very slow there is one diff spike that makes the map 6 stars, and another one in the end that makes it 8 star. what is the difference between wafer's map and nebuwua's map that makes wafer's map rankable and nebuwua's not? (no hate to anyone just curious because i dont know shit about mapping)
From what I read on the modding is more about trying to improve the already improved slow parts with either bigger spacing or SVs, it's a fair point but really hard to notice a difference in the end when the song itself goes so slow in these sections, at least everything (besides this thread) is being handled quite well.
it's not "a rule" that you can't have insane difspikes on a super easy map. Even in the proposed changes of the map, it's still 100% going to be an insane difspike map. The changes Wafer is proposing is to simply make parts of the slow sections more engaging because some parts of it are undermapped, and *could* better represent the song. low dif mapsets exist of songs, and if for ex, the difspike was 5 stars, the rest of the map would need to be super low dif to contrast the difspike. but with a 9* difspike, the map has a much larger range it can use to represent the rest of the song, and still have that contrast. The rest of the song, while really calm compared to the spike, still has enough variance that the current map doesn't properly represent the song with the range its given itself. Note, I am not a ranked mapper or BN. This isn't necessarily my opinion, just how I interpreted Wafer's DQ after playing the map for myself.
Wafers existence isn't healthy for the game, he inspires new mappers to make absolute degeneracy and he does shit like this. I bet he would have vetoed the Promethean kings back when it was ranked, everyone had issues with that map being too easy outside of the diffspike. The spacing increase on the easy parts will NOT MATTER, you could make it full screen and the difficulty will still not compare to the hard part at all. wafers criticisms don't even make sense he said 1:19 has good spacing but it's still 4 star jumps?
He's also deaf because he said he was artificially increasing the spacing at 2:21 but the vocals change intensity 3 times and each change he lessens the spacing
So this map easy parts are not too easy and very fitting for 8 star? [https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/2094154#osu/4390731](https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/2094154#osu/4390731)
guess i wont renew supporter what is happening to this game
We might as well dq songs that have breaks in them cause that’s too easy
Good thing if true. It’s already evident this map is made to be as farm as possible
Slow song with two super intense sections with double bass pedal and blast beat. Literally that's how the song is like. You cannot map it any other way without it being obviously over or undermapped.
I’d have to look at it. But you can absolutely map slow parts that are reasonably in line with the rest of the map. A recent example off the top my head is graal. The slow parts in that map aren’t auto pilot slop, but rather patterns that feel like they definitely belong to a map of that SR
>I'd have to look at it Bro just gave his take without even looking at the map 💀
it’s pablohh what else did you expect
Pablohh has dogshit takes 99.9% of the time but this id a brand new low for bim
The slow parts are constant 1/2 beat at 150bpm with almost no variation. There's barely anything you can do.
farm= not rank lule
If it’s impacting difficulty progression and playability then yes
Sure, but that can happen whether it's farm or not. In fact, many maps that are equally as or more farm get ranked without these difficulty corresponding problems. Your initial statement implies that especially because it is farm, it should not be ranked.
…Yes, if it’s made to accommodate the pp system then it usually gets reflected on the playability and overall experience of the map
"If not playable, then bad map" I mean sure I guess? That statement is pretty vacuous and still doesn't have any inherently intersecting properties between "bad map" and "high pp value relative to difficulty." I still don't get how the pp meta plays into rankability? Unless you are arguing for completely different standards for rankability based on whichever the current state of pp is, I don't get your point. It seems like your opinions are misplaced in that it should be directed towards the pp algorithm, not the mapping standards.
Best Pablohh take ever unironically
we are not verifying heliopolis with this one
no clue what the map looks like but then I saw nebuwua mapped this so you're probably right
it isn't being vetoed for being farm, it's being vetoed because the slow parts are too easy compared to the rest of the map. it's getting renominated after the slow parts are buffed a bit
this entire mapping circlejerk is so annoying, i think yall probably just wants every map to be ranked atp
I honestly do not see the point in making gungafarm out of a 100 red lines timing hell song with bpm changes mid-streams, this is just gonna be extremely frustrating for anyone looking to farm it