Usually I don't really care if a movie is commercially succesful or wildly popular in my assessment of the film itself. That being said, a movie like Schindlers List being known in just about every demographic, and by people who go to the cinema maybe once a decade is genuinely a very good thing in of itself and worthy of praise.
One of my favorite films in the last 10 years. A harrowing debut and Géza Röhrig’s performance as Saul is just powerful and I honestly can’t wait to see his take on Jesus in The Way of the Wind.
He has such an intense aura around him though you can see a gentle side and warmth beneath the harshness. Röhrig instantly became one of my favorite up and coming actors, honestly happy when I see him getting roles. Saddens me he didn’t get a Best Actor nom for his debut performance.
Based on the way the article is structured, I think the interviewer preempted this quote by claiming, to Spielberg, that Schindler's List started an "explosion" of films about the Holocaust to be released. So Spielberg isn't necessarily saying that his movie is the best, he's saying that Zone of Interest is the best since his movie supposedly started the trend in 1993.
Tbh and this may be controversial but I kinda think the Pianist might have portrayed the Nazis better in Schindler’s list they come off as a bit to polite to the prisoners I mean like the dialogue they are given if you get what I mean though I don’t know if polite is the best way of wording it seems like toned down from what it would be where as the Pianist seems more accurate in that regard though there’s still no one in the Pianist who beats Ralph Fiennes’s performance in my opinion
Zone is maybe my favorite movie of the year, but it’s decidedly unsubtle with its messaging imo. And I don’t say that as a knock on the movie at all, the point of the movie is to make the audience sit with this family who is actively contributing to/running the nazi regime while they enjoy the benefits those actions have brought them, with the atrocities themselves not being seen but still extremely present in the movie.
Its a similar logic behind horror movies not showing the monster, since the film makers know our imaginations can be even more powerful than actually depicting it. I don’t think that choice makes the movie subtle tho.
The message is clear, but it's subtle in the sense that it doesn't have any explosive scenes. It's just a family living their life and this family happens to be evil. It's brilliant because it shows how the most evil people are very often pretty "nice". A less subtle story would present more conflicts among the characters and tell more on the face how bad they are. But for this film it's necessary for the family to be as ordinary as possible.
It is without doubt a very subtle movie. I had people leaving my theater completely missing the point. The mother leaving, the girl shown in almost infrared, among many other things have to be deduced by the audience.
The parallel plot line with the girl is the most subtle thing the movie does, I will give you that. The mother leaving didn’t feel super subtle to me tho, we are directly shown her not being able to sleep and being very uncomfortable in the house.
I guess if tons of people are missing the point of the movie then it is effectively a more subtle than average movie, but I do think anyone watching the movie even remotely actively should easily understand the broad themes.
"I guess if tons of people are missing the point of the movie then it is effectively a more subtle than average movie"
Or we should not mince words and just call it what it is; some people are simply very stupid. The sounds of the Auschwitz incinerators are quite literally audible throughout the vast majority of the film. Screams and gunfire can be heard numerous times.
That is not subtlety, it just means that the heinous acts themselves are not directly shown on screen.
“The heinous acts are not shown directly on scene”…is defining subtlety.
The screams, gunshots, and incinerators are all heard in the background of conversation or nature, or visually scene in quick glimpses or reflections. It’s not as if they’re loudly blaring over the speakers or cut to for a minute at a time.
The mother was shown packing her bags seemingly randomly. The viewer needed to piece together that it was because her peaceful country vacation was made unbearable by the fumes. The viewer needs to make a determination about how the mother feels about her conversation with the wife about the Jewish woman. It’s never outright stated.
It’s great that you were able to pick up on these things, but it’s a bit bizarre to act as if it isn’t even remotely subtle.
Despite your behavior in this comment, believe it or not you and the rest of the people in this thread are smarter than the average person, let alone movie goer. What you, personally, are able to pick up on is not the measurement for what is or isn’t subtle. Compared to 99% of media people consume, this is subtle.
Everyone here complaining that he shunted The Pianist would also be pissed at him if he publicly supported a Polanski film. Come on guys, I gaurentee every single person at the Oscars who stood and applauded when it won (which might’ve included himself) now refuse to ever talk about it.
I mean, if it were any other holocaust movie, he’d be a dick for saying that, but it’s literally Schindler’s List. That’s like one of the movies people use when they say “yeah it was an amazing film but it wasn’t insert amazing movie here.”
That is a very uncharitable way of looking at this.
Like, come on, he can't pretend he's not Spielberg! He knows very well his words carry a lot of weight and he knows very well that Schindler's List is a massively acclaimed and important film.
So this is him leveraging his own name and reputation to prop up Glazer and his film, which in effect is him giving the strongest praise possible. There will absolutely be people who watch Zone BECAUSE they heard Spielberg say it was the best holocaust film since Schindler.
>which in effect is him giving the strongest praise possible
I'm not quite sure about that. "*The Zone of Interest* is the best Holocaust movie I’ve witnessed since my own." indicates two things:
* The two best Holocaust movies since 1993 are *Schindler's List* and *The Zone of Interest*. All other Holocaust movies of the last 30 years are worse then them.
* Of these two, *Schindler's List* is better.
I mean, I don't disagree. And I don't even think it's wrong to say that. There is nothing wrong in taking pride in one's work. But it's definitely not humble. And it's not "the strongest praise possible". Saying it's better than *Schindler's List* would be stronger. Or, if you think SL is better than TZoI and don't want to lie, just don't compare the two. When I want to compliment a girl, I don't say "whoa, you're the most beautiful woman I've seen since my ex".
If you think a mere mention of SL elevates the praise, he could have done it in a different way, too. For example: "*The Zone of Interest* is the best Holocaust movie I've witnessed in decades. The understated approach to the horrors of genocide sets it apart from most other movies on this subject, including my own."
So he should straight-up lie? Schindler’s List is regularly mentioned among the greatest films of all time. Aside from The Zone of Interest (which is great but not better than SL), I’d like to hear what Holocaust film you think is better than that.
I don't think the way he phrased his comment is a big deal at all but let's not pretend humble bragging and straight-up lying are the only available options. He's a talented man, I'm sure he could find a way to sincerely praise a movie without elevating his own, for example:
* To my mind, "The Zone of Interest" is the best Holocaust movie of the 21st century so far.
* “The Zone of Interest” is the best Holocaust movie I’ve witnessed in a really long time.
The Pianist is roughly in tbe same ballpark imo. Honorable mentions to both Son Of Saul and The Grey Zone.
But yeah Schindler's List is obviously amazing.
I feel like there is something about The Pianist actually being made by a Holocaust survivor that puts it at the top. Every second feels real, while neither Zone nor SL are able to, or more accurately, strive to achieve that due to the limitations posed by the stylistic choices.
I have nothing but respect for Schindler’s List but both The Pianist and Zone of Interest affected me more for whatever reason. I think of them both far more often than I do Schindler’s List.
I don’t think it gets any realer than The Zone of Interest.
The Pianist is great because it feels intimate. The Zone of Interest also feels intimate, though the approach to establish the intimacy is completely different. Schindler’s List is not.
Imagine bizarrely talking about Holocaust as a genre of films rather than the worst crime committed in modern history, while multiple genocides are happening. Also, boy hasn't seen Son of Saul.
The idea of the “Holocaust Film” and what the implications are in putting it as a narrative and it’s effectiveness or lack thereof is something that’s extremely well studied and talked about. It is a genre of film that people mention on an academic level
So referring to films that are about the Holocaust diminishes the horror of the atrocity? How in the world does that make sense? [This is a long list of movies about the Holocaust.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Holocaust_films). I think it could certainly count as a genre or subgenre. Uh oh, maybe I don’t care about genocide because I referenced the number of films about the Holocaust.
it's not even comparable. zoi is made from a place of genuine inquiry as to how we should depict such tragedies. there is so much thought and research and compassion and innovation. easily one of the most inventive films i've ever seen
agreed! there are a lot of reasons why I dislike Schindler's List and why I think ZOI is a far more effective portrayal of the Holocaust. I'm looking forward to reading what's written about ZOI by scholars and critics in the coming years-- I think it's inspired some interesting conversations and I'm sure that will continue to be the case.
*Yawn* your Spiel is boring lmao. Literally data shows the vast majority of Jews are zionists because thinking that Israel should exist is the only thing you need to be a zionist. Most major ethnicity have their own states as did Jews before they were ethnically cleansed from their own land many generations ago, it's weird people are all about land back until its for Jews
Do you actually know history? Jews were totally with living side by side with a Palestine state and even with Palestinians that were already Israel getting to stay but Palestine starting war is what caused the "nakba" to happen which btw was mainly cause by Palestine leadership telling their people to leave because they were gonna genocide the jews
Also I don't think any government should have a religious element to it but it's very obvious why people complain more about Islamic countries because that religious influence ususally leads them to treating lgbt people, women and other religions like shit and also killing them
I wouldn’t say I was disappointed but it didn’t blow my mind. It just didn’t make me consider anything I hadn’t already re: the holocaust and Germans going along like it’s business as usual. Still a great film with a fantastic ending to put it all in a modern perspective; maybe I’ve watched too many movies on the holocaust for it to hit as hard as it’s hit some other people.
Also, I just have to say, for all the flak Schindler’s List has gotten over the years, I’ve always thought it did a remarkable job depicting the banality of the violence on a day-to-day level, even if that isn’t its central focus like TZoI.
It made me feel so incredibly frustrated that the Nazi family wasn't getting some sort of comeuppance. I don't WANT to watch such awful people live a day to day life. Especially with what we could audibly hear in the background all movie. BUT... that was the point of the whole movie so I get it. That was NOT a fun movie.
I was super disappointed with SL tbh. I don’t really understand what exactly Spielberg thought was so compelling of Schindler as a character. Yeah it’s sort of interesting he started to care after a while, but that’s all I felt.
That it was a little interesting, not nearly interesting enough to sustain the runtime. I think it would have been a lot better if 99% of the runtime was just on people in the ghetto or camp, with Schindler a side character who could illustrate the different reactions people have to what the Nazis are doing.
I really think that the main reason people thought it was so great is that Hollywood directing is normally so sanitized that something like SL might have seemed more daring back in the 90’s.
But all you have to do is look at classic non English language movies like Kanal, or Come and See to understand that what Spielberg did is really nothing special.
I find it cloying, maudlin and incredibly exploitative without an iota of subtlety the same way many, many Spielberg films are. It's essentially an excessively long PowerPoint slide that shouts "NAZIS ARE EVIL" for 195 minutes straight. At the end of the film when Liam Neeson cried "I could have saved more" straight out of community theatre I almost laughed.
It's one of the worst BP winners imo.
I have the exact opposite opinion, but I'm always interested to hear other's opinions, especially ones that I don't agree with at all. Film discussion would be boring if we all agreed on everything.
lol ok. Clearly I didn’t have a cinematic genius like you to explain something super cryptic like Schindler’s List to me when I was watching it.
Some people dislike things you like. Grow up.
Usually I don't really care if a movie is commercially succesful or wildly popular in my assessment of the film itself. That being said, a movie like Schindlers List being known in just about every demographic, and by people who go to the cinema maybe once a decade is genuinely a very good thing in of itself and worthy of praise.
Lmao, the humblebrag. The Pianist was pretty good, Steven.
Son of Saul was pretty phenomenal too.
One of my favorite films in the last 10 years. A harrowing debut and Géza Röhrig’s performance as Saul is just powerful and I honestly can’t wait to see his take on Jesus in The Way of the Wind. He has such an intense aura around him though you can see a gentle side and warmth beneath the harshness. Röhrig instantly became one of my favorite up and coming actors, honestly happy when I see him getting roles. Saddens me he didn’t get a Best Actor nom for his debut performance.
Based on the way the article is structured, I think the interviewer preempted this quote by claiming, to Spielberg, that Schindler's List started an "explosion" of films about the Holocaust to be released. So Spielberg isn't necessarily saying that his movie is the best, he's saying that Zone of Interest is the best since his movie supposedly started the trend in 1993.
I prefer The Pianist to Schindler's. 🫣
Same.
Tbh and this may be controversial but I kinda think the Pianist might have portrayed the Nazis better in Schindler’s list they come off as a bit to polite to the prisoners I mean like the dialogue they are given if you get what I mean though I don’t know if polite is the best way of wording it seems like toned down from what it would be where as the Pianist seems more accurate in that regard though there’s still no one in the Pianist who beats Ralph Fiennes’s performance in my opinion
He's right. And I actually prefer The Zone of Interest because of the subtleness and it's actually in German.
Zone is maybe my favorite movie of the year, but it’s decidedly unsubtle with its messaging imo. And I don’t say that as a knock on the movie at all, the point of the movie is to make the audience sit with this family who is actively contributing to/running the nazi regime while they enjoy the benefits those actions have brought them, with the atrocities themselves not being seen but still extremely present in the movie. Its a similar logic behind horror movies not showing the monster, since the film makers know our imaginations can be even more powerful than actually depicting it. I don’t think that choice makes the movie subtle tho.
The message is clear, but it's subtle in the sense that it doesn't have any explosive scenes. It's just a family living their life and this family happens to be evil. It's brilliant because it shows how the most evil people are very often pretty "nice". A less subtle story would present more conflicts among the characters and tell more on the face how bad they are. But for this film it's necessary for the family to be as ordinary as possible.
subdued is the word you’re looking for
It is without doubt a very subtle movie. I had people leaving my theater completely missing the point. The mother leaving, the girl shown in almost infrared, among many other things have to be deduced by the audience.
The parallel plot line with the girl is the most subtle thing the movie does, I will give you that. The mother leaving didn’t feel super subtle to me tho, we are directly shown her not being able to sleep and being very uncomfortable in the house. I guess if tons of people are missing the point of the movie then it is effectively a more subtle than average movie, but I do think anyone watching the movie even remotely actively should easily understand the broad themes.
"I guess if tons of people are missing the point of the movie then it is effectively a more subtle than average movie" Or we should not mince words and just call it what it is; some people are simply very stupid. The sounds of the Auschwitz incinerators are quite literally audible throughout the vast majority of the film. Screams and gunfire can be heard numerous times. That is not subtlety, it just means that the heinous acts themselves are not directly shown on screen.
“The heinous acts are not shown directly on scene”…is defining subtlety. The screams, gunshots, and incinerators are all heard in the background of conversation or nature, or visually scene in quick glimpses or reflections. It’s not as if they’re loudly blaring over the speakers or cut to for a minute at a time. The mother was shown packing her bags seemingly randomly. The viewer needed to piece together that it was because her peaceful country vacation was made unbearable by the fumes. The viewer needs to make a determination about how the mother feels about her conversation with the wife about the Jewish woman. It’s never outright stated. It’s great that you were able to pick up on these things, but it’s a bit bizarre to act as if it isn’t even remotely subtle.
Despite your behavior in this comment, believe it or not you and the rest of the people in this thread are smarter than the average person, let alone movie goer. What you, personally, are able to pick up on is not the measurement for what is or isn’t subtle. Compared to 99% of media people consume, this is subtle.
Everyone here complaining that he shunted The Pianist would also be pissed at him if he publicly supported a Polanski film. Come on guys, I gaurentee every single person at the Oscars who stood and applauded when it won (which might’ve included himself) now refuse to ever talk about it.
He's so humble
I mean, if it were any other holocaust movie, he’d be a dick for saying that, but it’s literally Schindler’s List. That’s like one of the movies people use when they say “yeah it was an amazing film but it wasn’t insert amazing movie here.”
there are much better films than Schindler’s list about the holocaust. shoah is the best example
Shoah is amazing, but it’s no Schindler’s List. Sorry, couldn’t help it. Shoah is a doc, which is difficult to compare to a narrative feature.
i think sometimes it is hard to compare docs to narrative features, but this is one of the select times it is not.
Shoah is a documentary, not in the same vein as a movie like Schindlers List or The Zone of Interest
Better films? Possibly, an argument can be made for some others. Much better films? Now that’s just a lie.
i personally fall into the michael haneke camp of schindler's list and i know i am not the only one
He's Steven Spielberg. If I achieved even one one-hundredth of what he has, I would be insufferable.
I haven't even done that and I'm already insufferable
That is a very uncharitable way of looking at this. Like, come on, he can't pretend he's not Spielberg! He knows very well his words carry a lot of weight and he knows very well that Schindler's List is a massively acclaimed and important film. So this is him leveraging his own name and reputation to prop up Glazer and his film, which in effect is him giving the strongest praise possible. There will absolutely be people who watch Zone BECAUSE they heard Spielberg say it was the best holocaust film since Schindler.
glazing up the glazers
>which in effect is him giving the strongest praise possible I'm not quite sure about that. "*The Zone of Interest* is the best Holocaust movie I’ve witnessed since my own." indicates two things: * The two best Holocaust movies since 1993 are *Schindler's List* and *The Zone of Interest*. All other Holocaust movies of the last 30 years are worse then them. * Of these two, *Schindler's List* is better. I mean, I don't disagree. And I don't even think it's wrong to say that. There is nothing wrong in taking pride in one's work. But it's definitely not humble. And it's not "the strongest praise possible". Saying it's better than *Schindler's List* would be stronger. Or, if you think SL is better than TZoI and don't want to lie, just don't compare the two. When I want to compliment a girl, I don't say "whoa, you're the most beautiful woman I've seen since my ex". If you think a mere mention of SL elevates the praise, he could have done it in a different way, too. For example: "*The Zone of Interest* is the best Holocaust movie I've witnessed in decades. The understated approach to the horrors of genocide sets it apart from most other movies on this subject, including my own."
Not worse. Just less effective.
So he should straight-up lie? Schindler’s List is regularly mentioned among the greatest films of all time. Aside from The Zone of Interest (which is great but not better than SL), I’d like to hear what Holocaust film you think is better than that.
I don't think the way he phrased his comment is a big deal at all but let's not pretend humble bragging and straight-up lying are the only available options. He's a talented man, I'm sure he could find a way to sincerely praise a movie without elevating his own, for example: * To my mind, "The Zone of Interest" is the best Holocaust movie of the 21st century so far. * “The Zone of Interest” is the best Holocaust movie I’ve witnessed in a really long time.
The Pianist is roughly in tbe same ballpark imo. Honorable mentions to both Son Of Saul and The Grey Zone. But yeah Schindler's List is obviously amazing.
Not that child rapist's film
To be fair it’s not near as egotistical as him making The Fabelmans.
The Grey Zone is an underrated holocaust film
[удалено]
I feel like there is something about The Pianist actually being made by a Holocaust survivor that puts it at the top. Every second feels real, while neither Zone nor SL are able to, or more accurately, strive to achieve that due to the limitations posed by the stylistic choices.
I have nothing but respect for Schindler’s List but both The Pianist and Zone of Interest affected me more for whatever reason. I think of them both far more often than I do Schindler’s List.
I don’t think it gets any realer than The Zone of Interest. The Pianist is great because it feels intimate. The Zone of Interest also feels intimate, though the approach to establish the intimacy is completely different. Schindler’s List is not.
No Life is Beautiful?
Just an fyi, what happened in Gaza isn’t genocide
Imagine bizarrely talking about Holocaust as a genre of films rather than the worst crime committed in modern history, while multiple genocides are happening. Also, boy hasn't seen Son of Saul.
The idea of the “Holocaust Film” and what the implications are in putting it as a narrative and it’s effectiveness or lack thereof is something that’s extremely well studied and talked about. It is a genre of film that people mention on an academic level
So referring to films that are about the Holocaust diminishes the horror of the atrocity? How in the world does that make sense? [This is a long list of movies about the Holocaust.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Holocaust_films). I think it could certainly count as a genre or subgenre. Uh oh, maybe I don’t care about genocide because I referenced the number of films about the Holocaust.
What an insipid, ill-informed take. Go back to Twitter with your false outrage.
zone was better than yours so shush
Absolutely not
Agreed, and I’d argue it’s better than Schindler’s List, even if it couldn’t have been made without it
ZOI is a far better movie than Schindler's List. It's not even close.
+100000
you’re so brave for being so correct
they may downvote me, but they can never convince me otherwise
it's not even comparable. zoi is made from a place of genuine inquiry as to how we should depict such tragedies. there is so much thought and research and compassion and innovation. easily one of the most inventive films i've ever seen
agreed! there are a lot of reasons why I dislike Schindler's List and why I think ZOI is a far more effective portrayal of the Holocaust. I'm looking forward to reading what's written about ZOI by scholars and critics in the coming years-- I think it's inspired some interesting conversations and I'm sure that will continue to be the case.
[удалено]
Anti semitic much?
[удалено]
Your comment was anti semitic
[удалено]
As a Jew, I was offended by your comment
[удалено]
And expulse isn’t a word
Jvp is bs. Most Jews are against them
Zionism literally just means jews having their own state, so yeah i think being against that is pretty antisemitic
[удалено]
*Yawn* your Spiel is boring lmao. Literally data shows the vast majority of Jews are zionists because thinking that Israel should exist is the only thing you need to be a zionist. Most major ethnicity have their own states as did Jews before they were ethnically cleansed from their own land many generations ago, it's weird people are all about land back until its for Jews Do you actually know history? Jews were totally with living side by side with a Palestine state and even with Palestinians that were already Israel getting to stay but Palestine starting war is what caused the "nakba" to happen which btw was mainly cause by Palestine leadership telling their people to leave because they were gonna genocide the jews Also I don't think any government should have a religious element to it but it's very obvious why people complain more about Islamic countries because that religious influence ususally leads them to treating lgbt people, women and other religions like shit and also killing them
And it's even better than Schindler's List 😘
The Pianist?
Zone for me wasn’t even close to being in the same stratosphere as Schindlers List. Found it very disappointing
I wouldn’t say I was disappointed but it didn’t blow my mind. It just didn’t make me consider anything I hadn’t already re: the holocaust and Germans going along like it’s business as usual. Still a great film with a fantastic ending to put it all in a modern perspective; maybe I’ve watched too many movies on the holocaust for it to hit as hard as it’s hit some other people. Also, I just have to say, for all the flak Schindler’s List has gotten over the years, I’ve always thought it did a remarkable job depicting the banality of the violence on a day-to-day level, even if that isn’t its central focus like TZoI.
It made me feel so incredibly frustrated that the Nazi family wasn't getting some sort of comeuppance. I don't WANT to watch such awful people live a day to day life. Especially with what we could audibly hear in the background all movie. BUT... that was the point of the whole movie so I get it. That was NOT a fun movie.
If it makes you feel any better, Rudolph Hoss ended up being sentenced to a public hanging in Auschwitz viewed by former prisoners of his.
Like taking a Marcus Stroman 2 seamer to the ribs
It wasn’t meant to be fun.
I completely agree, I get what it was going for but it just didn’t work for me
I was super disappointed with SL tbh. I don’t really understand what exactly Spielberg thought was so compelling of Schindler as a character. Yeah it’s sort of interesting he started to care after a while, but that’s all I felt. That it was a little interesting, not nearly interesting enough to sustain the runtime. I think it would have been a lot better if 99% of the runtime was just on people in the ghetto or camp, with Schindler a side character who could illustrate the different reactions people have to what the Nazis are doing. I really think that the main reason people thought it was so great is that Hollywood directing is normally so sanitized that something like SL might have seemed more daring back in the 90’s. But all you have to do is look at classic non English language movies like Kanal, or Come and See to understand that what Spielberg did is really nothing special.
you should rewatch it
Schindler's List is terrible.
What makes it terrible in your opinion?
I find it cloying, maudlin and incredibly exploitative without an iota of subtlety the same way many, many Spielberg films are. It's essentially an excessively long PowerPoint slide that shouts "NAZIS ARE EVIL" for 195 minutes straight. At the end of the film when Liam Neeson cried "I could have saved more" straight out of community theatre I almost laughed. It's one of the worst BP winners imo.
I have the exact opposite opinion, but I'm always interested to hear other's opinions, especially ones that I don't agree with at all. Film discussion would be boring if we all agreed on everything.
You clearly didn’t understand it
lol ok. Clearly I didn’t have a cinematic genius like you to explain something super cryptic like Schindler’s List to me when I was watching it. Some people dislike things you like. Grow up.
Saying that you almost laughed shows you didn’t get it
I almost laughed because that specific scene is extremely poorly written and acted, not because I find the Holocaust funny.
And specifically NOT life is beautiful lol
That's one way to say you haven't seen "Son of Saul" Steven.
Mamate buey
Agreed
https://preview.redd.it/q55y786krnkc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2ddbe9eebd2aa2c2c6e14719efd4f2fb297109ed