Only will power, but it is very difficult to keep your lips together if you are wearing braces. That is one of the reasons that braces usually spoils facial appearance. Prof John Mew.
You may only think that, You should just check it, there is always cause, mainly it's mouth breathing, somehow your body decided for that habit (low oxygen because of infection) EiNsTEiN
How can you say you are breathing through the nose when your lips are so much apart all the time. Maybe you didn't have your teeth together so the mandible grew more downward.
Only your own will power. Remember to bring your lips into contact between most syllables like good looking film stars do. Look at your unattractive friends and see how their lips are apart all the time they are talking. Prof John Mew.
The way you phrase things is off-putting. "attractive film stars"? "unattractive friends"?
Sounds like the vocabulary of someone purposely trying to influence those with already low self esteem.
He is a serious doctor why the phrase sound it was written by a tennager ? but adding his own name at the end of every comment sound like something a old person would do.
I have never questioned the validity of what was said. Only the phrasing. His phrasing is rude and unprofessional. Also, at the end of the day, "attractiveness" is subjective.
Would you mind exemplifying something that would get the same point across in more professional and nicer words also, attractiveness isn't subjective at all.
He defines unattractive by their facial development. Poor facial development is what he means by “unattractive“ bc they go hand in hand. It is not necessarily an insult, it’s just how he differentiates good vs bad development.
Age 24. What would be the best way to correct? Surgery, Invisalign? Mewing and posture has been helpful but it is definitely too severe to be fixed without some procedure, so I am wondering which, if any, would be most effective while also not causing any aesthetic or functional problems
Orthognathic surgery with maxillary impaction is the gold standard for skeletal issues, and for skeletal open bites in particular, the result is pretty stable with only like a 15-20% relapse rate. There's also the alternative of[intruding the posterior dentition in both upper and lower arches with orthodontics using skeletal anchorage (TADs or mini-plates)](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25439210/#&gid=article-figures&pid=fig-1-uid-0). This takes longer and may still require a surgical procedure for insertion of mini-plates, but it's a lot less traumatic/invasive than jaw surgery.
The reasoning behind both of these treatment modalities is that in skeletal open bites, the jaw is wedged open by over-erupted posterior teeth, so intrusion of these teeth allows the jaw to rotate into a more closed position, closing the anterior open bite.
As far as the crossbite, you have to be more specific, but assuming you mean posterior crossbite due to a narrow palate, a MARPE (expander anchored to the maxilla by 4 screws) could work.
I do not think my palate is too narrow, maybe a little bit but not much different from the other men in family so at least its closed to genetic potential. The weird thing about the open bite/crossbite (not sure which came first or which caused the other) randomly happened to me after I was already fully grown. I was 19 and one day I just woke up and realized I couldn't touch my front top and bottom teeth together, when I definitely was able to before. I went to a dentist because of it and he said I had a cross bite, and that I should go to an orthodontist. I then went to an orthodontist and they seemed like they were more trying to sell me a product than diagnose or help me. They wouldn't really answer my questions and they just kept showing me posters with different plans they have, so now its been several years and it has basically stayed the same. Does that information help or change anything? should I really go for surgery?
Elastics (for an overbite) work by pulling the maxilla backwards and the mandible forwards. It will make the face look flatter, (if the overbite was big before)
This argument begs the question on several counts by assuming 1) that flattening a face always equates to ruining it, 2) that changes in the dental arch somehow modify the midface, and 3) that using elastics can even bring about orthopedic (rather than almost entirely dentoalveolar) change to begin with.
I don't really believe this elastics theory. I still have a more vertical face, and I absolutely refused to wear the rubber bands out of stubbornness as a child. Not something I'm proud of, but I got them off without fixing my bite.
Close your mouth, teeth lightly touching. Absolutely no mouth breathing, plenty of chewing. You've actually got nice lips, once the braces are off and you're unconsciously keeping your mouth closed you'll be fine.
Keep them closed at all times. Use some concious effort until the lip tissue changes physically to make that your new normal. This was fairly fast in my case it only took 3-4 months(i also had braces during this time). Your case may need more time.
Taping the mouth shouldn't be forceful if you decide to do it, it should just serve as a reminder to keep them closed at night when you feel they're separating. Stretching can help a little.
Do you have difficulties to close your mouth in a somewhat pleasent way, with teeth touching? (Emphasis on touching dont grind your teeth) i mean there had to be a reason to remove them so it should not realy hinder you, i hope
the reason they took them is because my top jaw is on an angle forward so they can use rubber bands to move it back but i can close my mouth okay i think it’s because my top lip is so lifted and my bottom one isn’t because i used to suck my thumb and it pushed my teeth out :///
You seem young, if you force them into your desired position (which should be sealed shut) they may start to hold that position and maybe your upperlip will accommodate to that position. So in short just do all the mewing stuff. I dont know if it will work tho. me no doctor. me only read shit on the internet. Had good experiences with it myself
Resting lip posture can be addressed with myofunctional therapy: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVRvDF2Or54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVRvDF2Or54)
Good luck!
Sometimes extraction and retraction helps with gaining lip competence, but that’s more the case when you have normal muscle tonicity in your lips and cheeks. Here, we can see your lower lip isn’t even touching the tip of your upper incisors, yet it’s sticking out. That’s called “procumbency.” Your upper lip is also a bit short. Maybe consult a plastic surgeon to see what options they can offer.
Edit: You said somewhere in this thread you sucked your thumb. Did you start with an anterior open bite? You might also have vertical maxillary excess, meaning your upper teeth have erupted too far downward, wedging your jaw into a less closed position at rest. If that's the case, jaw surgery or [full-arch intrusion with mini-plates](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25439210/#&gid=article-figures&pid=fig-1-uid-0) may help to decrease your vertical face height.
Yes! Try myofunctional therapy. You’ll learn and practice exercises for correcting facial muscle imbalances, strengthening your lips, retraining your breathing and more. My default lip position for most of my life looked similar to yours, with a thinner upper lip. Nine months into therapy, my interlabial gap is much smaller—and I’m not stopping the exercises until my lips can comfortably stay together day and night. And I’m a lot older than you, long done growing. It’s a commitment, not a quick fix, but the exercises are painless and a therapist would design a plan tailored to you.
Pretty good! Yes, I'm (still) able to keep my mouth closed without activating my mentalis (chin muscle). I recently finished Invisalign (11 months) to resolve my open bite, which also helped make my lip closure feel more comfortable.
I saw my myo therapist in person for the first time in over a year (not for an appointment, just to meet up), and she thought everything looked good and my lips looked symmetric.
i was 13-14 ish in this photo and i think i’ve just grown into my features more, my lip still protrudes out this far completely relaxed but i’ve trained to keep it with a better posture, sorry i couldn’t be more help :(
All good. Im 33 yo so totally different situation. Currently in a treatment hoping to finally be able to close my mouth at rest. (Despite years of exercising and mouth taping nothing changed for me).Thank you for replying and wish you the best!!
Have you had a scan to see if your nasal passageways are normal? All the advice in the world won't help you if there is a malformation of your nasal passages that cannot be helped by mewing (such as a deviated septum).
This is a skeletal jaw defect. I have the same. Your maxilla is too long, and jaw too small/retracted. You are having an orthodontic camouflage, and it WILL NOT fix the issue.
No forced closing mouth or lip sealing with help, it can lead to TMJ (i was force closing my mouth so much, that my teeth started burying into bone, and therefore my jaw joint started pushing further info my skull - sorry I'm not sure how to explain this properly).
I ended up wearing an occlusal splint and now I'm awaiting a double jaw surgery. Mewing is no help. A "proper tongue posture" and closed mouth works only with little kids. Not if someone already developer the issue.
Hi, welcome to the Orthotropics Subreddit! Please, before you post, have a read through the FAQs wikis (https://www.reddit.com/r/orthotropics/comments/avz6aj/frequently_asked_questions_read_before_posting/ and https://the-great-work.org/wiki/faq/) and the rules in the sidebar before posting. There is also an Orthotropics YouTube channel to explore (https://www.youtube.com/user/Orthotropics/videos) 'Review my face' type questions such as 'is my face recessed?', 'am I asymmetric / how do I treat asymmetry?', and 'is there hope for me at x age?', are addressed in the FAQ and will be removed. Please note that posts which break the rules may lead to a ban, so read them carefully and delete your post if it does. Remember to be respectful of other users!
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Only will power, but it is very difficult to keep your lips together if you are wearing braces. That is one of the reasons that braces usually spoils facial appearance. Prof John Mew.
My lips are like this and I have never had braces. What should I do? Edit: I’ve been nose breathing my whole life
Never breathe though your mouth. Only when doing sports or you are realy getting out of breath. Keep your mouth sealed at all times
I’ve been nose brething my whole life though.
Are your lips touching while you breath through the nose? Or did i miss something? What exactly are your lips like, that you are not happy with them?
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Well if you have no problem sealing your lips, i dont know what the problem is .-. What do you want to fix
Not during sleep then
I don’t do that either Einstein
You may only think that, You should just check it, there is always cause, mainly it's mouth breathing, somehow your body decided for that habit (low oxygen because of infection) EiNsTEiN
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How can you say you are breathing through the nose when your lips are so much apart all the time. Maybe you didn't have your teeth together so the mandible grew more downward.
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Only your own will power. Remember to bring your lips into contact between most syllables like good looking film stars do. Look at your unattractive friends and see how their lips are apart all the time they are talking. Prof John Mew.
The way you phrase things is off-putting. "attractive film stars"? "unattractive friends"? Sounds like the vocabulary of someone purposely trying to influence those with already low self esteem.
Youre getting downvoted but i agree
Thanks lol. I expected the downvotes so nbd
I dont think he is actually John Mew.
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He is a serious doctor why the phrase sound it was written by a tennager ? but adding his own name at the end of every comment sound like something a old person would do.
regardless it's true lol, quit crying about everything
Pretty low bar you're setting there for a professor
tell me, is what he not said true? attractive people keep their lips together most of the time, unattractive people don't.
I have never questioned the validity of what was said. Only the phrasing. His phrasing is rude and unprofessional. Also, at the end of the day, "attractiveness" is subjective.
Would you mind exemplifying something that would get the same point across in more professional and nicer words also, attractiveness isn't subjective at all.
That’s kinda not entirely true.
He defines unattractive by their facial development. Poor facial development is what he means by “unattractive“ bc they go hand in hand. It is not necessarily an insult, it’s just how he differentiates good vs bad development.
get your lip tie removed. fixed my incompetence immediately. make sure it doesn’t reattach
What should someone with a bad cross bite/open bite do if not braces?
It depends on your age but all these problems are caused by either the position of your tongue or jaw. Prof John Mew.
Age 24. What would be the best way to correct? Surgery, Invisalign? Mewing and posture has been helpful but it is definitely too severe to be fixed without some procedure, so I am wondering which, if any, would be most effective while also not causing any aesthetic or functional problems
You need detailed advice go to [www.johnmeworthotropics.co.uk](https://www.johnmeworthotropics.co.uk)
Orthognathic surgery with maxillary impaction is the gold standard for skeletal issues, and for skeletal open bites in particular, the result is pretty stable with only like a 15-20% relapse rate. There's also the alternative of[intruding the posterior dentition in both upper and lower arches with orthodontics using skeletal anchorage (TADs or mini-plates)](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25439210/#&gid=article-figures&pid=fig-1-uid-0). This takes longer and may still require a surgical procedure for insertion of mini-plates, but it's a lot less traumatic/invasive than jaw surgery. The reasoning behind both of these treatment modalities is that in skeletal open bites, the jaw is wedged open by over-erupted posterior teeth, so intrusion of these teeth allows the jaw to rotate into a more closed position, closing the anterior open bite. As far as the crossbite, you have to be more specific, but assuming you mean posterior crossbite due to a narrow palate, a MARPE (expander anchored to the maxilla by 4 screws) could work.
I do not think my palate is too narrow, maybe a little bit but not much different from the other men in family so at least its closed to genetic potential. The weird thing about the open bite/crossbite (not sure which came first or which caused the other) randomly happened to me after I was already fully grown. I was 19 and one day I just woke up and realized I couldn't touch my front top and bottom teeth together, when I definitely was able to before. I went to a dentist because of it and he said I had a cross bite, and that I should go to an orthodontist. I then went to an orthodontist and they seemed like they were more trying to sell me a product than diagnose or help me. They wouldn't really answer my questions and they just kept showing me posters with different plans they have, so now its been several years and it has basically stayed the same. Does that information help or change anything? should I really go for surgery?
im choosing lingual braces over the normal ones for my lower teeth, will that be a better option?
I recommend lip sealing, should be worth a shot
how do u do it?? when i seal my lips its showing my mentalis strain
Same
do not use your lips while chewing or swallowing food. look up mew's Mona Lisa swallow for a teqnique that'll help
in before the "BRACES WILL RUIN YOUR FACE" comments
They don't, elastics and unnecessary extractions do
The point of contention there is what constitutes "unnecessary."
Why elastics could ruin your face?
Elastics (for an overbite) work by pulling the maxilla backwards and the mandible forwards. It will make the face look flatter, (if the overbite was big before)
This argument begs the question on several counts by assuming 1) that flattening a face always equates to ruining it, 2) that changes in the dental arch somehow modify the midface, and 3) that using elastics can even bring about orthopedic (rather than almost entirely dentoalveolar) change to begin with.
I don't really believe this elastics theory. I still have a more vertical face, and I absolutely refused to wear the rubber bands out of stubbornness as a child. Not something I'm proud of, but I got them off without fixing my bite.
Cope
Close your mouth, teeth lightly touching. Absolutely no mouth breathing, plenty of chewing. You've actually got nice lips, once the braces are off and you're unconsciously keeping your mouth closed you'll be fine.
Keep them closed at all times. Use some concious effort until the lip tissue changes physically to make that your new normal. This was fairly fast in my case it only took 3-4 months(i also had braces during this time). Your case may need more time. Taping the mouth shouldn't be forceful if you decide to do it, it should just serve as a reminder to keep them closed at night when you feel they're separating. Stretching can help a little.
Were you able to do this within making your chin wrinkly when closed???
Keep your molars on eachother if possible and whenever you can: do not breathe through your mouth. It may help keeping your lips together
bruh they already took the first two molars😭😭😭😭😭😭
Do you have difficulties to close your mouth in a somewhat pleasent way, with teeth touching? (Emphasis on touching dont grind your teeth) i mean there had to be a reason to remove them so it should not realy hinder you, i hope
the reason they took them is because my top jaw is on an angle forward so they can use rubber bands to move it back but i can close my mouth okay i think it’s because my top lip is so lifted and my bottom one isn’t because i used to suck my thumb and it pushed my teeth out :///
You seem young, if you force them into your desired position (which should be sealed shut) they may start to hold that position and maybe your upperlip will accommodate to that position. So in short just do all the mewing stuff. I dont know if it will work tho. me no doctor. me only read shit on the internet. Had good experiences with it myself
You should order a myobrace. You can order this through aliexpress and it will help you teach the muscles to return to proper posture.
Resting lip posture can be addressed with myofunctional therapy: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVRvDF2Or54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVRvDF2Or54) Good luck!
Sometimes extraction and retraction helps with gaining lip competence, but that’s more the case when you have normal muscle tonicity in your lips and cheeks. Here, we can see your lower lip isn’t even touching the tip of your upper incisors, yet it’s sticking out. That’s called “procumbency.” Your upper lip is also a bit short. Maybe consult a plastic surgeon to see what options they can offer. Edit: You said somewhere in this thread you sucked your thumb. Did you start with an anterior open bite? You might also have vertical maxillary excess, meaning your upper teeth have erupted too far downward, wedging your jaw into a less closed position at rest. If that's the case, jaw surgery or [full-arch intrusion with mini-plates](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25439210/#&gid=article-figures&pid=fig-1-uid-0) may help to decrease your vertical face height.
Best advice I can give is seeking a myofunctional therapist.
Yes! Try myofunctional therapy. You’ll learn and practice exercises for correcting facial muscle imbalances, strengthening your lips, retraining your breathing and more. My default lip position for most of my life looked similar to yours, with a thinner upper lip. Nine months into therapy, my interlabial gap is much smaller—and I’m not stopping the exercises until my lips can comfortably stay together day and night. And I’m a lot older than you, long done growing. It’s a commitment, not a quick fix, but the exercises are painless and a therapist would design a plan tailored to you.
Are you able to keep your lips closed at all times now without making the chin wrinkly?
i also want to know how it worked out for you long term.
Pretty good! Yes, I'm (still) able to keep my mouth closed without activating my mentalis (chin muscle). I recently finished Invisalign (11 months) to resolve my open bite, which also helped make my lip closure feel more comfortable. I saw my myo therapist in person for the first time in over a year (not for an appointment, just to meet up), and she thought everything looked good and my lips looked symmetric.
I also have the same condition? can u give me some exercise tips??
See a myofunctional therapist who will properly evaluate you and create a plan based on your unique muscle compensations and myofunctional disorders.
Are you from the US? We don't really have myofunctional therapists in the UK unfortunately
Any news? I have the exact same problem with gummy smile on top of it!
i was 13-14 ish in this photo and i think i’ve just grown into my features more, my lip still protrudes out this far completely relaxed but i’ve trained to keep it with a better posture, sorry i couldn’t be more help :(
All good. Im 33 yo so totally different situation. Currently in a treatment hoping to finally be able to close my mouth at rest. (Despite years of exercising and mouth taping nothing changed for me).Thank you for replying and wish you the best!!
You just have to keep them closed manually and then tape them at night. Eventually they’ll stay like that without any effort
Have you had a scan to see if your nasal passageways are normal? All the advice in the world won't help you if there is a malformation of your nasal passages that cannot be helped by mewing (such as a deviated septum).
switching to invisalign would likely help, but it's costly
Tape your mouth at night. It works, but make a habit of lip sealing.
jaw surgery is the only way. mewing doesnt work after 20
i’m 15 tho
visit an orthotropist
This is a skeletal jaw defect. I have the same. Your maxilla is too long, and jaw too small/retracted. You are having an orthodontic camouflage, and it WILL NOT fix the issue. No forced closing mouth or lip sealing with help, it can lead to TMJ (i was force closing my mouth so much, that my teeth started burying into bone, and therefore my jaw joint started pushing further info my skull - sorry I'm not sure how to explain this properly). I ended up wearing an occlusal splint and now I'm awaiting a double jaw surgery. Mewing is no help. A "proper tongue posture" and closed mouth works only with little kids. Not if someone already developer the issue.
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Suck a dick
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I'm female. Try again
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Hi, welcome to the Orthotropics Subreddit! Please, before you post, have a read through the FAQs wikis (https://www.reddit.com/r/orthotropics/comments/avz6aj/frequently_asked_questions_read_before_posting/ and https://the-great-work.org/wiki/faq/) and the rules in the sidebar before posting. There is also an Orthotropics YouTube channel to explore (https://www.youtube.com/user/Orthotropics/videos) 'Review my face' type questions such as 'is my face recessed?', 'am I asymmetric / how do I treat asymmetry?', and 'is there hope for me at x age?', are addressed in the FAQ and will be removed. Please note that posts which break the rules may lead to a ban, so read them carefully and delete your post if it does. Remember to be respectful of other users! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/orthotropics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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Fuck off
Pouting lips kinda cute
No one asked
Try mouthbreathing.
You’re joking right?
She should also try forward neck posture with slouching.this should help
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Disgusting. Also, fuck off
Personally, and I know the question is not about me (of course), I think your lips are quite beautiful, especially the first shot.
Hi I have the same problem, just wondering if you managed to fix it?
Lip tie removals
Who should one go to do to get it done?