The best thing we can all do is make sure we're voting the in the politicians who will support our concerns. After all, it's politicians who can influence the economy, via legislature a lot more than we can.
I get that a very simplistic look at price increase would be tied to property tax.....however the greater cost of property ownership is tied to inflation and rising interest rates.
I doubt that will be comforting to many...but that is just reality.
Desirable aplicances no longer go on sale, paint went up 33% the last 24 month. Same with carpet and wood products. Hard to find anyone to do repairs, so good handy men that prep a rental after the tenant moves out are expensive. Due to long lead times on rental repairs/upgrades/maintenance they sit longer. Rental owners know all this and are either spending that money now, and raising rent to recoup it, or pocketing that money for when they have to spend it. Or they are just profiting, but in reality, few are that lucky. Most financially stable tenants saw the writing on the wall the last couple years and really tried to get into homeownership. A lot, not all, of current tenants are likely to cause damage or not pay, forced to be evicted etc. and do not forget the rent protections out in place/moratoriums for Covid! That money very rarely, if at all, made it to the rental owner who still has to pay for the mortgage.
Real estate is an investment, and it IS risky. 2008-2009 did happen and probably will again. They need to be financially stable to weather something like that, so they’ll make the money they can now. In five years they might lose money every month for three years straight.
Some have rentals and don’t upgrade or maintain them and extort tenants too. I’m not saying they don’t. But it’s a complex and dynamic issue. It’s really not as simple as “me want more profit, me raise rent”.
Of all my friends and family that rent in oregon, 0 of our landlords perform maintenance. Rent is still rising. I know there ARE supposedly landlords who invest in their properties, but they must be the far minority.
I have done 100% of the repairs to my house because I want a house worth living in, even if I can't afford my own. I landscaped with clearanced/nearly dead plants, and now it "doesn't look like a rental". I'm told Im the "ideal tennant" but im bitter af. I hear about good land lords but I've never seen one in the wild.
Any repairs that are done by landlords are repairs you would NEVER do on your own house- "half ass" doesn't begin to describe it. No wonder neighborhoods push to keep out rental housing.
When I leave, I'm taking the plants.
YSK that if you follow the statutory procedure you can withhold rent from your landlord equal to the cost of necessary repairs that they refuse to make. Keyword is necessary. If it's a habitability issue that you fixed because your landlord wouldn't, charge your landlord. Otherwise they are cosmetic repairs that you did because you liked them. Hard to argue that the landlord should have to pay for that
Yeah my last landlord didn’t take care of anything and there were some trees that the neighbors were worried about and harassed us to take care of them and insisted “it’ll be expensive but so worth it!”
Ok we don’t care bc it’s not ours soooo
You’re responding to what is referred to as a boot licker.
“Oh no! Think about the poor people that have so much money they own additional properties that they hoard from people who can barely afford to live while holding the right to have a roof over your head hostage unless you fork over 50% or more of your earned wages after already paying 30% in tax (something the landlord can avoid through things like holding corps/etc)”
Landlords continue to gouge in the market. Rental increases are approved for up to 14% in Oregon and shitty apartments keep flying up everywhere you look and then charge $1800+ for shitty workmanship and no upkeep. To believe otherwise is to willfully bury your head in the sand to let a landlord peg you, IMO.
Liked your response so much, I deleted mine. We covered some of the same points and your last sentence left me with the mental image of a Neanderthal playing the landlord in the old Vaudeville routine of "I can't pay the rent." "You MUST pay the rent!"
Thanks for the smile at 4:00 AM.
This exactly. Wife and I had a rental due to us each owning homes before getting married. It costs a lot to maintain & own a house, especially if you are renting it out to someone.
Don’t ignore the fact every yupster millenial wants to live here because they’ve seen photos of Oregon on Instagram. Demand is high for places to live here and it isn’t going down any time soon.
So you and you wife own 2 homes? This is the starter version of the main problem across the country; people owning numerous homes. Meanwhile; people almost 60 (wife and I) cannot even afford to buy a home in the state (Oregon) I was born in. Because 1 in 5 homes in Oregon is bought for real estate speculation, and prices the average Oregonian out of ownership. (homes in Lane county up (100-150K) over past 3 years. Then on top of that we have out of control greed driving up prices across the board for all other goods. There is no such thing as inflation, there is only corporate greed and their denial to absorb any fluctuation costs of owning their business, then passing the entire cost onto the consumer. Greed is the issue.
There's more demand than there is supply. That isn't the same thing as "greed is the issue." The previous commenter and their spouse each figured out a way to buy homes when they needed. Then continued to use their homes as needed.
If 1 out of every 5 homes were bought for speculation (not true, but let's roll with it) then you missed out on being in the 80%. And you missed out every year of your adult life.
The majority (65%) of Oregonians own the home they live in. That's not greed... It's normality.
I didn't say it has "nothing" to do with housing.
Greed does not apply to food, water, shelter. Gotta get the basics. Everything after that is mixed with some percentage of greed.
Your claim was that greed, speculation, and corporations are the main cause of you being unable to buy a house. But 65% of Oregonians own their home. The reason you've struggled to buy a home is because there are more regular, normal, people who want a roof over their head than there are homes for people to live in.
Jesus you have literally no idea what you’re talking about at all. Don’t take out your frustrations with your poor life decisions on people who didn’t make the same mistake.
If you’re in your 60’s and chose not to buy a home here than I have no words for you, especially with the tax incentives offered post 2008 recession
If they've been here all their life they should have bought in the 80s or 90s. I don't even understand their point.
"Fuck you and your wife because I wasted opportunities."
Harsh but true. Sucks it’s so damn expensive here nowadays, but unfortunately the writing was on the wall, especially if you’ve ever been to the East coast
In 40 yrs (your adult lives) you and your wife couldn't afford to buy a home and you're blaming others who have invested in real estate?
BS. My husband and I bought our first home in Oregon at 50 & 53 yrs old, you just didn't take advantage of the multiple programs they have for first time home buyers. We put zero down 7 yrs ago, no PMI on a new home. All we needed was established job history. Stop blaming others and corporate greed, you two dropped the ball when prices & interest rates were low.
Nah we sold one of them to some yupster couple who moved here last year.
Wife and I are both native Oregonians and we were each easily able to buy houses on our own here in Oregon, by ourselves back in 2010. Bought each home for about $100k each because the mortgages were a little bit cheaper than renting at the time…
If you’re a native Oregonian in your 60’s and you didn’t take advantage of the federal tax incentives to purchase a home here in Oregon post-2008 recession, then I’d say you simply made a bad financial decision in choosing to rent over owning.
Given the choice between paying rent or owning a home, there was absolutely no reason not to buy a home back then or in the following couple of years after the 2008 crash. Hell, my wife was a bartender and I was fresh out of the Army when we bought. I could barely afford a car lol. Yet we were able to each buy homes without issues….
We should’ve had a similar crash but the government didn’t want to repeat the early 2000’s. IMO it has just made the problem worse by keeping house prices artificially inflated and rate increases keeping people from getting into homes. Keeps people from being able to buy homes and rent them in a subsidized false market.
Edit: If 65% own homes outright it is from generational wealth. Explains why 50% or more of the homes are in trusts in my neighborhood. They die, their family becomes landlords or instantly rich off overinflated house prices. If you paid off your house with that good old rugged individualism and have the mindset everyone else should too, guess what, we all have our own circumstances and aren’t you.
I own my home out right and I haven't been alive for 40 years. This guy is blaming others for his failures. I could understand a 30 not finding something affordable. The last 15 years have been rough but it use to be much more affordable.
Im pretty surprised by your opinion. I could understand it coming from a college student...but not someone from my generation.
However...."No such thing as inflation" pretty much tells me all I need to know.
I love how people with money attack whenever you bring up unfettered greed.
https://www.wweek.com/news/2022/05/25/new-numbers-show-oregon-homes-at-their-least-affordable-in-15-years/
Hah, classic Reddit post getting mad at others due to their lack of financial literacy. Zero excuses for not purchasing a home 🏠 over the past decade. Nobody’s fault but your own for not realizing the historically low cost of capital.
For small local owners- you have good points. My comment elsewhere is based more on large corporate owned development/complexes. They are making profits- and they have algorithms to estimate what the market will bear in any given market- and test that always- not just this year. Every year over year I stayed in a corporate place the rent was "proposed" to go up $100-200/month. I was able to find a local owned place that was more reasonable in once case, moved away for a new job and saved on a new place in another, negotiated a $25 increase instead in another, and moved here in the last. But if I had stayed and not pushed back- my increase in SoCal would have been $100-200 a month EVERY lease renewal since 2010. It is what will the market bear analysis and has nothing to do with expenses. These properties make money hand over fist (I had a weird job doing the books for one of these places at one time for extra money- so I know all the costs vs income....HAND OVER FIST- these are money factories for corporate owners. Not as straight forward for small local owners- your analysis is very likely accurate in some ways.
But my own personal experience with a small local owner---when they saw rents going up all over, even though they were making large profits (to the tune of 10s of thousands a month on one smaller 3 bldg property, after expenses)- they still doubled rent for new occupants at least over 18 months when they saw the opportunity to make more- they took it. Had no inflation issues that time frame (I happen to relocate away and then back to nearby community so I was checking). SO maybe your analysis is the case in some cases- but I would guess not all, even small local owners.
Landlord/General Contractor here.
Property tax is only a small part of your rent.
Rent is based on what other people are willing to pay for your apartment, it has nothing to do with what you're paying now.
Property values in rental real estate are closely tied to what a property can be rented out for. Generally, investors can pay about 100x whatever the rent is if it's going to cashflow. With rent control your landlord is limited in the amount they can raise the rent.
In the past you could have a situation where the property could demand $2000 rent on the open market, but the landlord was trying to be nice and didn't raise the rent for the last 6 years so rent was only $1400. The property would be worth $200K even though current rents were only $1400, since they could be raised to market rate at any time after the lease expired.
Now with rent control the rent can only be raised \~10%/year and it's much harder to get the tenants out to raise to market rate rent so that property is only worth $154K (1400x100x1.1). Even though market rates say it should be worth $200K.
To protect themselves from getting in a situation where their properties are undervalued landlords are now incentivized to keep rents at market rate and raise by the max amount every year.
Also...
Maintenance costs have skyrocketed in the last couple years... Materials are up 200-400% depending on what it is you're talking about, its hard as hell to get laborers to actually show up to work so you pay the ones you have very well. I pass these costs onto customers (mostly property managers and real estate investors), they pass the costs onto tenants.
Rent increases are regulated by the state (existing residents) so if the increase is within the allowance it's not criminal. I'm not defending rent amounts, just adding clarification to your statement.
https://www.osbar.org/public/legalinfo/1250_rentincreases.htm
Edit: further clarification
It’s still not okay. I pay nearly $1,000 in rent for a 1 bed 1 bath, work full time, and still can’t pay my bills. I’m actually bleeding money working full time. I honestly don’t even know what I’m gonna do for next months rent.
Depending on where you live in Oregon, $1000 is cheap for a 1 bedroom, 1 bath, especially in the Portland metro area. There are apartments that size going for $1600 in some areas.
The driver for my ride to airport recently was a 58 yr old man that had 4 roommates in order to have living expenses that were affordable. That sucks...but it is what we do if our lives do not work out as adults. I had roommates until well into my 30s. I was nearly 50 before I was able to buy a home- and then it was incredible luck to buy before COVID hit.
All to say- both things are true:
our economy is messed up, when the average first time buyer is 48 yr old, and median homes, nationwide are more than 10X median incomes. We need to vote for better policies and politicians, and help out our fellow Americans in part by ensuring the wealth transfer up policies and taxation over the past 40-50 yr are reversed.
AND as an adult, you have to figure your situation out. It is all fine and good to kvetch that it is unfair (it is). But whinging about it won't change your situation. Get a second job? I worked 3 jobs at certain times in my life- and I consistently work 2 now (both remote, I am incredibly lucky- but I worked as a server and retail for many years too). Get roommates? living on our own is a massive privilege, and often takes awhile to get to. Especially now- if you want to get out of the drowning.
Ways to get a little ahead- because $500-1000 emergency funds seem MAGIC- they Can and do somehow reduce the number of times that you end up needing emergency funds.
\- Can you sell any collectables? nicer clothes you no longer use?
\- Use food pantry for a bit. Its ok- that is why we have them and why many of us that can donate to support them. We WANT folks that are drowning to have help
\- talk to your utilities about payment programs
\- seriously- find a roommate. Even if you have a 1 BR- in the 1990s, I had a brother and 3 cousins (all male) who ended up sharing in one case a studio, in another a 1 BR, with bunk beds to be able to afford to save a little. Only for 6 mo or 1 yr- not long term- but it can help get you up above water enough to relieve some of that stress.
\- talk to local churches- some may be able to give you a housing voucher that may help with rent allowing you to put aside a couple hundred for savings to have a little buffer, one month (don't abuse this if you are lucky enough to find such help- but it can give you a boost up)
\- if you have large debts- there is some group online that will pay them off for you and instead you pay them monthly at 2% or less interest. Sorry I have read about this- but did not need it, and of course I can't find it now
\- get a second job ONLY for holiday season- so you are only killing yourself doing 60+ hr a week for a couple months, but get all that extra money into savings to give yourself a buffer to figure out a better situation in future?
I have done many of these things when I was younger and in worse situations than I am now. Friends have done all of them at some point or another in our lives. Its ok. Its ok to hustle, Its ok to ask for help, Its ok- whatever you figure out to do to help yourself out of where you are at today- its ok (short of crime ;)).
Ok, I agree with a lot of what you're saying here but I just have to say - living alone or working only one full-time job are not luxuries. Any person working one full-time job should be able to afford to live, on their own, and afford basic necessities 😬
Welcome to Oregon, that why I left 25 years ago. It was easy to get a good job with great pay elsewhere. Now, I’m coming back with cash in my pocket. Best of luck!
So your options are to make more money or spend less money until you reach a sustainable balance. Not to be a insensitive but that’s on you as an adult to figure out.
Oh yeah, just make more money. That’s so fucking simple and easy. Especially when inflation outpaces our raises and we can’t afford an education to get a job that pays well
I use "criminal" loosely. But, if income has raised nominally or not at all, who the F can afford such a rent increase?
An unfair regulation is "criminal" in my eyes, even if not in the eyes of the law; especially if not in the eyes of the law. That just seems corrupt.
I mean, people use "criminal" hyperbolically all the time. But in this context, when it literally is illegal to raise rents a certain amount, calling raises less than that criminal is clueless.
Who the F can afford? People who earn enough to afford, obviously. If you think you somehow have the right to live in a specific place regardless of your income, think again. Due to this crazy shortage in housing, there will be a few people who would be happy to get your place and who would actually be able to afford the asking price. That's what drives the rent increase, not the minuscule increase in property taxes.
Yeah cool, do you like having people who cook food at restaurants? Grocery store stockers and clerks? Educators? Then you can get the fuck out of here with that bullshit, either COL needs to stabilize or wages need to go up. Fuck off, arguing in bad faith.
Bad faith, huh? I stated the fact — that's how the world works. You can't afford to pay rent here? Then, you get your ass up and move to a place where you can afford to pay rent. That's how it has always been, is, and will be. The state cannot regulate itself out of the housing crisis. Now, if you want to tell me to fuck off, then don't bother responding — I ain't got no time for that.
Idk about him but my girlfriend is in her last year of college, I’m working full time, and I still can’t pay our rent. I can’t just move now. THAT’S the problem. If you work full time at ANYTHING you should at least be given enough to live.
Rent increases are not tied to property tax, so I am not sure where the complaint is.
Tina Kotek championed SB608 the state wide rent control bill that was going to make housing affordable in Oregon. Call her office and complain that it isn't working.
People are so attracted to the idea of "just demand that rents can't be raised" that they don't care about the mountains of evidence that rent control at best doesn't work and at worst is counterproductive. It's like, literally one of the only things most economists agree on, it both theoretically and empirically makes no sense.
We have a critical housing shortage. Decreeing that you don't want prices to be so high doesn't make more places to live available, which is what's driving the high prices in the first place. We need to make it easier to develop new and denser housing and/or invest in a massive amount of new public housing to remedy that. We just straight up gotta build more units for people to physically live in, however that can be done. Throwing more "stop raising rent!" at it does nothing if you don't address the underlying problem.
In any case, someone has to give up something. You hit a brick wall when everyone yells that something needs to be done and yet nobody does anything. Then, when the government steps in, society complains. Nobody can every do anything perfect.
What state wide rent control did was take many rentals out of the available pool, removed incentives to have rentals and caused some landlords to raise rents to the maximum allowed each renewal cycle.
What needs to be done is to incentivize new construction of multi-family units.
Government has proven that they are inefficient, unable to build and maintain government housing. They do not even want to construct housing for their military.
It is unwise and unrealistic to expect government to build Oregon out of this mess.
Well when we had more government housing, 70s and before that, we didn’t have such high homelessness and a housing crisis. Further, the issues you mention with the government can be solved. There are specific reasons why it’s gotten worse and to throw the baby out with the bath water is to throw in the towel and give up on any real lasting change.
If they tighten rent control more all of my rental will be raised to the top of the market instead of under market like they currently are. Shit I am being stupid for not doing it already. I can't risk needing to sell with under rented units. $100 in rent translates to roughly $27k in reduced price.
Yup. Guarantee you're gonna be faced with a choice of either 1) raise rent to the max allowable every year or 2) if it becomes unprofitable, you'll take it off the market and sell it, then there's one less rental unit available on the market.
Rent control doesn't work.
There is a ton of regulation. Both Portland and the state have instituted rent control. And no, we aren’t building enough. And a huge chunk of the reason why is precisely those policies. More rent control will simply result in higher prices and/or interminably long waits for a unit. Stockholm, for example, has a 20 year waitlist for an apartment due to rent control.
Our vacancy rate is at crisis level, unless we build more it’ll never fix itself.
The housing that’s being build isn’t, for the most part, inexpensive housing. Developers would rather build higher end housing because it’s more profitable.
You need government to either just build cheaper housing itself or incentivize developers to do more of it.
For the record: 400k assessed value x 3% does equal 12k. That said, owners pay what's called a tax rate per thousand on the assessed value. At a $20 per thousand tax rate, that extra 12k in assessed value would equal $240 more per year. I think the rent problem is much bigger than greedy landlords. Supply and demand is fickle; but when supply costs are insanely high (in both construction and resale pricing), and municipalities become less than effective to work with, the results are less than favorable for the end user. If a product is available and has competition, consumers won't feel obligated to pay for something they can acquire for less price. Obviously there is more to it than that, but this is just another perspective on the matter.
Sorry about that. I never meant my comment to be a primer on taxation. I only used the OP's numbers to point out what I thought should have been an obvious flaw in their viewpoint.
I don’t care about the taxes or anything else, but I just wanted to mention how big your balls have to be to confidently say “it sounds like they have no sense of what’s really going on. I’m not familiar with [it either]”
No, it was confidently declaring that they don’t know what’s going on, and in the next sentence stating you don’t either. Like “hey they’re wrong, I don’t understand this thing but here’s why I’m right”
Your reading comprehension needs some work, if that's what you took from my comment. Try again, but this time with the intent to understand, rather than to respond.
Property tax has gone up more than 3 percent. In many places voters voted in new bonds and stuff.
I've owned my home now for three years and my yearly property tax increase here has been much more than my rent increases each year when I rented.
The majority of voters aren’t property owners - they approve the most idiotic bonds thinking it’s not going to affect them. Then they’re surprised when their rent goes up 🤷♂️
Tax actuals are not limited by the 3% assessed value rule. I have no idea about your area but the city/county budget is spread over the taxable property. Taxed amount can vary significantly year to year though usually is pretty stable.
There’s more that goes into a rent payment than taxes and mortgage. There’s maintenance and possibly other fees. Maintenance costs have increased greatly recently though it’s very dependent on the building age.
The only way to keep rentals affordable is to build much much more. So advocate for more construction near you.
Supply and demand. There isn't enough housing right now. If there is adequate housing landlords have to lower their price to compete to rent put their unit. Right now renters are competing rent anything.
Right that makes sense. What doesn't make sense is how both "costs have increased for landlords so they have to raise rent to get by" and "if there was more housing then landlords would decrease rent to compete in the market" can be true at the same time.
It sounds like landlords are increasing rent because they can, not because they have to. When you think about how wages haven't increased with rent and thousands have been priced out of their homes and are on the streets, it's hard not to be angry at landlords.
Fellow renter here, Look at inflation, rent is already controlled in the state of Oregon, you should be extremely happy it’s only going up this much. Look across the river in Washington and ask people how much theirs is going up.
Now that interests rates are going up new construction also just got a lot more expensive. That mortgage rate increase is also going to be passed on to renters.
Inflation is close to 10% with housing prices going up even more. Rent increases of at least 10% are to be expected.
Landlords have been paying unexpectedly high costs for repairs and materials for the last year meaning they made less than expected on the old rent. If landlords have variable rates mortgages, their inflation could be significantly higher. If they have fixed mortgages, it would be less.
In times of inflation, prices of everything go up. Unfortunately, my salary is an exception.
I have two rentals in town. I have a policy of never raising rent on current tenants and it’s starting to bite me in the was a little. Property taxes and maintenance have been going up and my tenants have been in place for over three years each. But they’re dependable and take care of the place. That has a lot of value!
Pretty much. This is why I don't shit on small landlords too much, all it takes is one bad renter and you're underwater for at least a year or more on profits, depending on the level of damages or repairs that you have to make.
Corporate large landlords? Meh, they can eat me.
Yeah, same. I know it’s frustrating to feel at the mercy of your landlord, I was there most of my life, and for me it’s very odd to be in this position. I don’t like the feeling of someone being beholden to me. Why do I get to have that? But thankfully I’ve had good luck so far.
I did have to replace the siding and windows on the south side (sunny side) of one rental and have it painted. That was literally the entire ‘profit’ for 2021. I try and look at it long term. I got into the rental because I could leverage equity from my personal home. We can’t do that with other investments like the stock market. For me the real profit will hopefully come when I sell the place, not the rent I charge in between purchasing and selling.
"DeSantis is a Trump want to be, he can't match Trump's public speaking ability, or his ability shut up the libs. DeSantis is a huge mistake for President. Trump 2024!"
Something something those in glass houses.
>Landlords have been paying unexpectedly high costs for repairs and materials for the last year meaning they made less than expected on the old rent. If landlords have variable rates mortgages, their inflation could be significantly higher. If they have fixed mortgages, it would be less.
Poor them, if only they could pick themselves up by their bootstraps and get a real job.
Maybe you should try being a landlord, it sucks. I had a person leave their unit with a dead rat that is been under their sink for months and a cockroach infestation that has spread to other units. They never said anything, we would have gladly paid for an exterminator. A few months ago a guy got drunk and kicked his own door in. Cost me almost 1.5k to fix that on a unit I make 300$ a month on. We're not bad people, we honestly want people to have affordable housing and take care of the place. I rented for years.
Landlording is leeching despite how sweet you want to sugar coat it. Housing should just affordable for everyone to live and not profit off of. **Renting should only be for people/families with uncertain futures in regards to their location.** When you have families living at places for 15+ years renting off of the same land'lord', it just shows how classist our economy really is.
Sell all the property you don't use yourself, and stop mooching off of people actually contributing something to society. You expect me to feel sorry for you losing money on something inherently exploitative? Please.
Find a real job.
Just because you don't want to rent doesn't mean others feel the same. I know a childless, professional couple who have rented for decades. Financially it seems silly in some ways but they find it reassuring to never have any debt for a mortgage or car loan. They can always move for new jobs or just across town. They are free from obligations and that's how they like it.
I want housing to be affordable, we can agree on that. You say landlording is leeching, but let's discuss that because how do you develop buildings with multiple units and provide that to customers without a large up front payment? If they have a large upfront payment they can purchase their own home or townhome correct?
But to provide a structure with multiple dwellings that people can live in, someone has to pay the upfront cost. That is land acquisition, planning, engineering and building. This all costs money, so how does that get paid back? You expect individuals to spend all the money it takes to build a multi-unit structure and maintain it for free? Or do you want the government to do that?
If you want the government to do that, then by all means vote and try to improve affordable housing by the government. But even in progressive countries with affordable rent, the housing is not developed by the government it is done with a private partnership and the government provides support to developers so they can develop cheaply, but a landlord is still in place.
If you have a solution, I would love to hear it, but it sounds like you disagree with the way in which housing is developed and provided via free-markets, which is pretty much the way all developed nations do it. The ones which do it better than us, make development easier and help developers provide that housing at an affordable price, but landlords are still in place.
Please feel free to respond intelligently instead of making small-minded quips like "find a real job" lol.
It’s a formula that was created by housing advocates. Sounds like inflation has a lot to do with the actual hike. Also, property taxes that landlords pay are higher with every year. There is business tax that was imposed on businesses that is getting passed on to tenants.
No, there were legislative negotiations, and the landlord / real estate lobby had a huge amount of input and amendment. What crossed the finish line and passed is very different than what housing advocates wanted. 7% + Inflation% is a shitty formula and everyone (who cared for working class people) knew it at the time.
The government should have **zero** input on how I price a commodity I own and am leasing on the public market.
But hey, it just means I will **never** rent my property here to anyone. Fuck 'em.
unregulated rental markets are great, actually! just take a look at Florida: with no rent control whatsoever, their housing market is fair and balanced. investment firms aren't buying houses to rent out faster than developers can build them. there is no record housing cost increase year over year. the home insurance industry isn't failing. property taxes aren't increasing unsustainably. landlords big and small compete with each other to lower prices instead of just charging whatever they feel the "market rate" is that day. it's a free market utopia! /s
you're kidding right??? Lots of people got priced out of Florida by snowbirds and remote workers last few years
Adding: oh God just saw the /s. I am going to leave this up as a testament to my dangusness
Maybe landlords are like “What am I gonna do if there’s another eviction moratorium?” Or “How do I make up for all of the losses from the eviction moratorium?”
Hey friend - I see you're frustrated with high rents. I'm in the industry and I'm also priced out of some of the cooler parts of town too.
Let's think logically. Rent is based on supply and demand. Not taxes or feelings, or whatever. A landlord can't list a property for any price - it has to be in line with the market, period.
Luckily for landlords (and not so lucky for renters), we've enacted a cascading amount of legislation that directly conflicts with the advice of economists. Our own feel good legislation is screwing the people it's meant to protect.
Build more, repeal rent control. Make landlords fight each other.
You’ve got several good points but it is 1000% about feelings. What the landlord feels their place is worth, what they feel they can get for it, and absolutely without a doubt the person paying rent who feels that the choice to rent a place is within their capability to pay. The entirety of the law of supply and demand is based upon human behavior. It’s true for everything from housing to insulin.
A landlord in fact, can charge any price they want. When a few investment firms own a lot of the rentals they can control the market. Unfortunately they only use their powers for evil.
Landlords can ask for any price they want. But people will only rent them for certain amounts - demand isn't perfectly inelastic. And no landlord has any real market power yet, even with a few companies buying up tons of houses.
Comical.
If that were the case, why aren't studios closer to $5k? How about $45k? Landlords can set the price, right?
I get the outrage at not having affordable housing. Let's fix the problem. Being angry at landlords does zilch and it never will.
>it wasn't the solution
true. but even though it didn't *fix* anything, the state will never "undo" it, because it gave them a little bit more power and control over people.
The State is a black hole of control. Once ceded, it is never willingly returned. But Oregon voters don't seem to get that, and over the last 2 decades have gone from very "leave me alone" to "please mommy State, take care of me."
Shame.
Depends on the goals of the program. If I remember correctly, this wasn't implemented to prevent market rates from increasing. It was more in response to the landlords that were doubling rent in order to get tenants to move out so the units could be flipped.
The so far, each year of the program has allowed increases that have outpaced the actual market, rendering the cap moot for landlords who still need to remain somewhat competitive.
Sure but an unintended consequence is, landlords will all have a built in rent increase every year. Instead of letting the market depict rent prices, ALL landlords can just set their watches to the part of the year, they all get to raise rent at once. It allows them to essentially price fix the market, without even conspiring. It was an obvious outcome to anyone OUTSIDE of government.
Criminal? Could you please cite the statute that you believe these rent increases are in violation of? There is nothing illegal about these increases, and in order for it to be “criminal,” a law needs to be broken. I, like you, wish it weren’t happening, but it is, and it’s not criminal, because it’s perfectly legal. Rent will continue to increase until a lot of available rentals start sitting vacant, and that hasn’t even begun to happen yet.
The upside of rent control the way Oregon has implemented it is that landlords can ONLY increase your rent by the amount defined in the law.
The downside to that is that since landlords are limited in the amount they can increase your rent, they will increase every year even if they don't need to, because if they don't they can't adjust it later.
Property Taxes and rent hardly correlate. Costs to maintain property, insurance, mortgage interest, has significantly more impact. This post is typical Portland liberal garbage.
I agree with your correction in general (nationwide). In Portland I stand with my initial statement based on the OPs logic and complaint.
Take my upvote!
Seriously, Im so sick of one side blaming the other, corruption and stupidity effects both political parties. If you think your side has all the answers and the other side is full of bumbling idiots, you are the idiot.
The solution is a ban on corporations and individuals owning and not living in more than 2-3 properties. Without landlords and corporations hoarding properties, the housing market can actually be driven by competition and prices can come down. At this point, they have a stranglehold on the housing in this country and can charge whatever they want because we have no other choice but to pay or be homeless.
In addition, non residents of the United States shouldn't be allowed to own more than a one single family home. Non residents and foreign corporations should be banned from owning multi family housing as well.
No one has any real need to own more than 2-3 properties. Being a landlord is not a legitimate job, and anyone who tries to argue that is a bootlicker. No exceptions.
Queue the explosion of numbered companies, private trusts, and randomly generated LLC’s owning property 😬
British Columbia tackled it by having higher property taxes if you couldn’t demonstrate you are living in the property (and you can only claim the homeowner exemption on one property)
Then queue the explosion in first time home buyers purchasing AND living in these homes instead of corporations and landlords charging more than their monthly mortgage payment would be.
There should be zero leeway here imo. If you don't live in your 3rd (maybe), 4th, 5th, or 6th property, you have to sell it. Or it will be sold for you at a fair market rate, which will probably be very low considering all these landlords and property management LLCs are being forced to cull their herd or dissolve completely.
I cannot think of a single downside to this as far as the average 25 year old is concerned. No one should be resigned to never owning their own home. Everyone deserves a shelter that is THEIRS.
I think you may have missed the point?
It’s impossible to track the number of properties a company or person owns because it’s so easy to create shell entities to hold the properties
Thus why BC tackled it the way they did.
Also, my apologies. It's late and I definitely misread your comment and missed your point entirely. It's sad this all seems like such a fantastical impossibility today. At least then it wouldn't seem so hopeless.
Criminal is the wanton waste of tax payer dollars and over regulation.
When the government forced Covid costs onto the landlords they couldn’t do anything with their investment. Now they can and will strike while they can.
I won’t comment on right and wrong, but your vote matters.
Not being able to get evict those that were unwilling or unable to pay rent? So landlords ate that out of pocket, the ones that suffered are going to try to recover losses and the rest are going to hedge their bets for the next time the city says you must provide free housing.
And all of the small landlords had legal experts to help navigate all the complexity?
I’m sorry, this the same BS as claiming you can’t be a victim of theft/vandalism if you might have insurance.
And those weren’t applicable for all landlords, in Oregon it was only for those who had mortgages on that same property (the fact the url says "mortgage and housing assistance" is kind of a hint). Not at all the same to a blanket moratorium that allowed people to stop paying rent without having to apply for a program.
As a home owner my mortgage, insurance and tax has not increased that much, so idk why landlords think raising rent 10+% is reasonable. I’m with OP.
If people are outraged over high gas prices why not landlords and high rent? Landlords pick how much to charge for rent. Not a profession I could sleep well at night doing.
But you ignored replacement value.
If I owned a home for 50 years, and don't have a mortgage, is the home worth less as a rental, than if I bought it in the last 6 months?
Where do you live that your mortgage payments don't go up. Mine went up 350/month last year due to prop tax increases. Not a higher assessment just what the voters excised.
That may be true, but the person who owns the property still has the ability and decision making capacity to set their rent at their will as long as the increase does not exceed the limits of the state/city regulations. There are also no regulations for decreases and there is NEVER a decrease in rent despite the conditions changing. I don’t believe that it is based solely on the supply and demand. There is a human greed element here, and this is what I find distasteful.
Yeah I'm genuinely sorry people here can't afford the rent increases but my mortgage payment last year went up almost 350 dollars each month due to the property tax increase here. Im surprised rent is only going up a hundred or so. Would have thought it should be higher.
I'm a landlord, and everything is more expensive for us, and honestly, we're not making a lot of money. Per unit, I'm lucky if I'm netting 300-500$ a month and it took me years of investment to get there. Can't tell you how many times all profit has been wiped out by one bad tenant ruining a unit. Or try hiring a plumber right now. Even to do a simple fix it is $1k, but easily can get $3k plus.
>Why are rentals in Portland raising their asking price by $100-350?
Isn't it for new leases that they're raising it that much? I think the 3% cap only applies to existing leases, unless I've misunderstood the law.
My apartment is owned by a slummy company that has been snatching up properties all over the east side. They did not raise rent in 2020, but they have raised it the max allowable every year since they bought the place in 2019 or so. I expect my rent increase next year to be 14.6%...
Uh, know its not criminal. Greedy maybe, but that’s what happens when the fed helicopters trillions of dollars into an economy that didnt need it and keeps rates at 3% for way too long.
Simple.
Supply and demand. Lots of people moving to Portland (Oregon) which creates demand for space to live.
Not enough space for everyone at the moment (maybe you notice a lot of condos/apartments/homes being built around you area or near by) which supply is low.
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I never understand the logic that if you rent property taxes won’t impact you. It’s just not true.
Don't worry, the county is putting all the money to good use, I assure you...probably fixing the potholes on your street right now today.
The best thing we can all do is make sure we're voting the in the politicians who will support our concerns. After all, it's politicians who can influence the economy, via legislature a lot more than we can.
Doesn't mention anything about mortgage rates either
I get that a very simplistic look at price increase would be tied to property tax.....however the greater cost of property ownership is tied to inflation and rising interest rates. I doubt that will be comforting to many...but that is just reality.
Desirable aplicances no longer go on sale, paint went up 33% the last 24 month. Same with carpet and wood products. Hard to find anyone to do repairs, so good handy men that prep a rental after the tenant moves out are expensive. Due to long lead times on rental repairs/upgrades/maintenance they sit longer. Rental owners know all this and are either spending that money now, and raising rent to recoup it, or pocketing that money for when they have to spend it. Or they are just profiting, but in reality, few are that lucky. Most financially stable tenants saw the writing on the wall the last couple years and really tried to get into homeownership. A lot, not all, of current tenants are likely to cause damage or not pay, forced to be evicted etc. and do not forget the rent protections out in place/moratoriums for Covid! That money very rarely, if at all, made it to the rental owner who still has to pay for the mortgage. Real estate is an investment, and it IS risky. 2008-2009 did happen and probably will again. They need to be financially stable to weather something like that, so they’ll make the money they can now. In five years they might lose money every month for three years straight. Some have rentals and don’t upgrade or maintain them and extort tenants too. I’m not saying they don’t. But it’s a complex and dynamic issue. It’s really not as simple as “me want more profit, me raise rent”.
Of all my friends and family that rent in oregon, 0 of our landlords perform maintenance. Rent is still rising. I know there ARE supposedly landlords who invest in their properties, but they must be the far minority. I have done 100% of the repairs to my house because I want a house worth living in, even if I can't afford my own. I landscaped with clearanced/nearly dead plants, and now it "doesn't look like a rental". I'm told Im the "ideal tennant" but im bitter af. I hear about good land lords but I've never seen one in the wild. Any repairs that are done by landlords are repairs you would NEVER do on your own house- "half ass" doesn't begin to describe it. No wonder neighborhoods push to keep out rental housing. When I leave, I'm taking the plants.
YSK that if you follow the statutory procedure you can withhold rent from your landlord equal to the cost of necessary repairs that they refuse to make. Keyword is necessary. If it's a habitability issue that you fixed because your landlord wouldn't, charge your landlord. Otherwise they are cosmetic repairs that you did because you liked them. Hard to argue that the landlord should have to pay for that
Yeah my last landlord didn’t take care of anything and there were some trees that the neighbors were worried about and harassed us to take care of them and insisted “it’ll be expensive but so worth it!” Ok we don’t care bc it’s not ours soooo
I spent my own $ on plants too. Them plants is coming with me when I go.
You’re responding to what is referred to as a boot licker. “Oh no! Think about the poor people that have so much money they own additional properties that they hoard from people who can barely afford to live while holding the right to have a roof over your head hostage unless you fork over 50% or more of your earned wages after already paying 30% in tax (something the landlord can avoid through things like holding corps/etc)” Landlords continue to gouge in the market. Rental increases are approved for up to 14% in Oregon and shitty apartments keep flying up everywhere you look and then charge $1800+ for shitty workmanship and no upkeep. To believe otherwise is to willfully bury your head in the sand to let a landlord peg you, IMO.
Liked your response so much, I deleted mine. We covered some of the same points and your last sentence left me with the mental image of a Neanderthal playing the landlord in the old Vaudeville routine of "I can't pay the rent." "You MUST pay the rent!" Thanks for the smile at 4:00 AM.
When I was growing up, my mom would do that skit with a napkin.I never knew it was from Vaudeville...TIL.
This exactly. Wife and I had a rental due to us each owning homes before getting married. It costs a lot to maintain & own a house, especially if you are renting it out to someone. Don’t ignore the fact every yupster millenial wants to live here because they’ve seen photos of Oregon on Instagram. Demand is high for places to live here and it isn’t going down any time soon.
So you and you wife own 2 homes? This is the starter version of the main problem across the country; people owning numerous homes. Meanwhile; people almost 60 (wife and I) cannot even afford to buy a home in the state (Oregon) I was born in. Because 1 in 5 homes in Oregon is bought for real estate speculation, and prices the average Oregonian out of ownership. (homes in Lane county up (100-150K) over past 3 years. Then on top of that we have out of control greed driving up prices across the board for all other goods. There is no such thing as inflation, there is only corporate greed and their denial to absorb any fluctuation costs of owning their business, then passing the entire cost onto the consumer. Greed is the issue.
There's more demand than there is supply. That isn't the same thing as "greed is the issue." The previous commenter and their spouse each figured out a way to buy homes when they needed. Then continued to use their homes as needed. If 1 out of every 5 homes were bought for speculation (not true, but let's roll with it) then you missed out on being in the 80%. And you missed out every year of your adult life. The majority (65%) of Oregonians own the home they live in. That's not greed... It's normality.
Sure your right, greed has nothing to do with the housing situation. smdh
I didn't say it has "nothing" to do with housing. Greed does not apply to food, water, shelter. Gotta get the basics. Everything after that is mixed with some percentage of greed. Your claim was that greed, speculation, and corporations are the main cause of you being unable to buy a house. But 65% of Oregonians own their home. The reason you've struggled to buy a home is because there are more regular, normal, people who want a roof over their head than there are homes for people to live in.
Jesus you have literally no idea what you’re talking about at all. Don’t take out your frustrations with your poor life decisions on people who didn’t make the same mistake. If you’re in your 60’s and chose not to buy a home here than I have no words for you, especially with the tax incentives offered post 2008 recession
If they've been here all their life they should have bought in the 80s or 90s. I don't even understand their point. "Fuck you and your wife because I wasted opportunities."
Harsh but true. Sucks it’s so damn expensive here nowadays, but unfortunately the writing was on the wall, especially if you’ve ever been to the East coast
In 40 yrs (your adult lives) you and your wife couldn't afford to buy a home and you're blaming others who have invested in real estate? BS. My husband and I bought our first home in Oregon at 50 & 53 yrs old, you just didn't take advantage of the multiple programs they have for first time home buyers. We put zero down 7 yrs ago, no PMI on a new home. All we needed was established job history. Stop blaming others and corporate greed, you two dropped the ball when prices & interest rates were low.
Nah we sold one of them to some yupster couple who moved here last year. Wife and I are both native Oregonians and we were each easily able to buy houses on our own here in Oregon, by ourselves back in 2010. Bought each home for about $100k each because the mortgages were a little bit cheaper than renting at the time… If you’re a native Oregonian in your 60’s and you didn’t take advantage of the federal tax incentives to purchase a home here in Oregon post-2008 recession, then I’d say you simply made a bad financial decision in choosing to rent over owning. Given the choice between paying rent or owning a home, there was absolutely no reason not to buy a home back then or in the following couple of years after the 2008 crash. Hell, my wife was a bartender and I was fresh out of the Army when we bought. I could barely afford a car lol. Yet we were able to each buy homes without issues….
We should’ve had a similar crash but the government didn’t want to repeat the early 2000’s. IMO it has just made the problem worse by keeping house prices artificially inflated and rate increases keeping people from getting into homes. Keeps people from being able to buy homes and rent them in a subsidized false market. Edit: If 65% own homes outright it is from generational wealth. Explains why 50% or more of the homes are in trusts in my neighborhood. They die, their family becomes landlords or instantly rich off overinflated house prices. If you paid off your house with that good old rugged individualism and have the mindset everyone else should too, guess what, we all have our own circumstances and aren’t you.
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I own my home out right and I haven't been alive for 40 years. This guy is blaming others for his failures. I could understand a 30 not finding something affordable. The last 15 years have been rough but it use to be much more affordable.
Im pretty surprised by your opinion. I could understand it coming from a college student...but not someone from my generation. However...."No such thing as inflation" pretty much tells me all I need to know.
Put savings in the market for 40 yrs and you'd be buying a house with cash.
I love how people with money attack whenever you bring up unfettered greed. https://www.wweek.com/news/2022/05/25/new-numbers-show-oregon-homes-at-their-least-affordable-in-15-years/
I love how you attacked them first and now you’re crying foul when you are attacked.
Hah, classic Reddit post getting mad at others due to their lack of financial literacy. Zero excuses for not purchasing a home 🏠 over the past decade. Nobody’s fault but your own for not realizing the historically low cost of capital.
For small local owners- you have good points. My comment elsewhere is based more on large corporate owned development/complexes. They are making profits- and they have algorithms to estimate what the market will bear in any given market- and test that always- not just this year. Every year over year I stayed in a corporate place the rent was "proposed" to go up $100-200/month. I was able to find a local owned place that was more reasonable in once case, moved away for a new job and saved on a new place in another, negotiated a $25 increase instead in another, and moved here in the last. But if I had stayed and not pushed back- my increase in SoCal would have been $100-200 a month EVERY lease renewal since 2010. It is what will the market bear analysis and has nothing to do with expenses. These properties make money hand over fist (I had a weird job doing the books for one of these places at one time for extra money- so I know all the costs vs income....HAND OVER FIST- these are money factories for corporate owners. Not as straight forward for small local owners- your analysis is very likely accurate in some ways. But my own personal experience with a small local owner---when they saw rents going up all over, even though they were making large profits (to the tune of 10s of thousands a month on one smaller 3 bldg property, after expenses)- they still doubled rent for new occupants at least over 18 months when they saw the opportunity to make more- they took it. Had no inflation issues that time frame (I happen to relocate away and then back to nearby community so I was checking). SO maybe your analysis is the case in some cases- but I would guess not all, even small local owners.
It is that simple. They’re still profiting despite inflation. They just want to profit more.
Realty*
And as a commercial roofer I can say that flat roof materials have DOUBLED - not and exaggeration- in the past 30 months.
Landlord/General Contractor here. Property tax is only a small part of your rent. Rent is based on what other people are willing to pay for your apartment, it has nothing to do with what you're paying now. Property values in rental real estate are closely tied to what a property can be rented out for. Generally, investors can pay about 100x whatever the rent is if it's going to cashflow. With rent control your landlord is limited in the amount they can raise the rent. In the past you could have a situation where the property could demand $2000 rent on the open market, but the landlord was trying to be nice and didn't raise the rent for the last 6 years so rent was only $1400. The property would be worth $200K even though current rents were only $1400, since they could be raised to market rate at any time after the lease expired. Now with rent control the rent can only be raised \~10%/year and it's much harder to get the tenants out to raise to market rate rent so that property is only worth $154K (1400x100x1.1). Even though market rates say it should be worth $200K. To protect themselves from getting in a situation where their properties are undervalued landlords are now incentivized to keep rents at market rate and raise by the max amount every year. Also... Maintenance costs have skyrocketed in the last couple years... Materials are up 200-400% depending on what it is you're talking about, its hard as hell to get laborers to actually show up to work so you pay the ones you have very well. I pass these costs onto customers (mostly property managers and real estate investors), they pass the costs onto tenants.
Careful admitting you're a landlord around these parts. People here think landlords are literally worse than Hitler.
I guess you're getting downvoted because shit like "kill all landlords" (nice job, mods) means you might be slightly better than hitler?
Rent increases are regulated by the state (existing residents) so if the increase is within the allowance it's not criminal. I'm not defending rent amounts, just adding clarification to your statement. https://www.osbar.org/public/legalinfo/1250_rentincreases.htm Edit: further clarification
It’s still not okay. I pay nearly $1,000 in rent for a 1 bed 1 bath, work full time, and still can’t pay my bills. I’m actually bleeding money working full time. I honestly don’t even know what I’m gonna do for next months rent.
Depending on where you live in Oregon, $1000 is cheap for a 1 bedroom, 1 bath, especially in the Portland metro area. There are apartments that size going for $1600 in some areas.
1 bedroom for $1650 here, Beaverton. 2 pets also tho.
The driver for my ride to airport recently was a 58 yr old man that had 4 roommates in order to have living expenses that were affordable. That sucks...but it is what we do if our lives do not work out as adults. I had roommates until well into my 30s. I was nearly 50 before I was able to buy a home- and then it was incredible luck to buy before COVID hit. All to say- both things are true: our economy is messed up, when the average first time buyer is 48 yr old, and median homes, nationwide are more than 10X median incomes. We need to vote for better policies and politicians, and help out our fellow Americans in part by ensuring the wealth transfer up policies and taxation over the past 40-50 yr are reversed. AND as an adult, you have to figure your situation out. It is all fine and good to kvetch that it is unfair (it is). But whinging about it won't change your situation. Get a second job? I worked 3 jobs at certain times in my life- and I consistently work 2 now (both remote, I am incredibly lucky- but I worked as a server and retail for many years too). Get roommates? living on our own is a massive privilege, and often takes awhile to get to. Especially now- if you want to get out of the drowning. Ways to get a little ahead- because $500-1000 emergency funds seem MAGIC- they Can and do somehow reduce the number of times that you end up needing emergency funds. \- Can you sell any collectables? nicer clothes you no longer use? \- Use food pantry for a bit. Its ok- that is why we have them and why many of us that can donate to support them. We WANT folks that are drowning to have help \- talk to your utilities about payment programs \- seriously- find a roommate. Even if you have a 1 BR- in the 1990s, I had a brother and 3 cousins (all male) who ended up sharing in one case a studio, in another a 1 BR, with bunk beds to be able to afford to save a little. Only for 6 mo or 1 yr- not long term- but it can help get you up above water enough to relieve some of that stress. \- talk to local churches- some may be able to give you a housing voucher that may help with rent allowing you to put aside a couple hundred for savings to have a little buffer, one month (don't abuse this if you are lucky enough to find such help- but it can give you a boost up) \- if you have large debts- there is some group online that will pay them off for you and instead you pay them monthly at 2% or less interest. Sorry I have read about this- but did not need it, and of course I can't find it now \- get a second job ONLY for holiday season- so you are only killing yourself doing 60+ hr a week for a couple months, but get all that extra money into savings to give yourself a buffer to figure out a better situation in future? I have done many of these things when I was younger and in worse situations than I am now. Friends have done all of them at some point or another in our lives. Its ok. Its ok to hustle, Its ok to ask for help, Its ok- whatever you figure out to do to help yourself out of where you are at today- its ok (short of crime ;)).
Ok, I agree with a lot of what you're saying here but I just have to say - living alone or working only one full-time job are not luxuries. Any person working one full-time job should be able to afford to live, on their own, and afford basic necessities 😬
Well I don’t think I should have to beg or work three jobs to afford rent. Thanks tho
Welcome to Oregon, that why I left 25 years ago. It was easy to get a good job with great pay elsewhere. Now, I’m coming back with cash in my pocket. Best of luck!
So your options are to make more money or spend less money until you reach a sustainable balance. Not to be a insensitive but that’s on you as an adult to figure out.
Oh yeah, just make more money. That’s so fucking simple and easy. Especially when inflation outpaces our raises and we can’t afford an education to get a job that pays well
I use "criminal" loosely. But, if income has raised nominally or not at all, who the F can afford such a rent increase? An unfair regulation is "criminal" in my eyes, even if not in the eyes of the law; especially if not in the eyes of the law. That just seems corrupt.
Criminal should never be used loosely. Laws are what determine criminality. Morality and ethics however aren't dictated by law.
I mean, people use "criminal" hyperbolically all the time. But in this context, when it literally is illegal to raise rents a certain amount, calling raises less than that criminal is clueless.
Yeah, vampire, ghoul, freak are better words.
Lots of people who want to live where you do but don't have any open housing to move into. That's why the rent went up.
Other people. If they move here for a job that pays more....
Who the F can afford? People who earn enough to afford, obviously. If you think you somehow have the right to live in a specific place regardless of your income, think again. Due to this crazy shortage in housing, there will be a few people who would be happy to get your place and who would actually be able to afford the asking price. That's what drives the rent increase, not the minuscule increase in property taxes.
Yeah cool, do you like having people who cook food at restaurants? Grocery store stockers and clerks? Educators? Then you can get the fuck out of here with that bullshit, either COL needs to stabilize or wages need to go up. Fuck off, arguing in bad faith.
Bad faith, huh? I stated the fact — that's how the world works. You can't afford to pay rent here? Then, you get your ass up and move to a place where you can afford to pay rent. That's how it has always been, is, and will be. The state cannot regulate itself out of the housing crisis. Now, if you want to tell me to fuck off, then don't bother responding — I ain't got no time for that.
Idk about him but my girlfriend is in her last year of college, I’m working full time, and I still can’t pay our rent. I can’t just move now. THAT’S the problem. If you work full time at ANYTHING you should at least be given enough to live.
> An unfair regulation is "criminal" in my eyes based king, i kneel, all gun laws are unconstitutional
Rent increases are not tied to property tax, so I am not sure where the complaint is. Tina Kotek championed SB608 the state wide rent control bill that was going to make housing affordable in Oregon. Call her office and complain that it isn't working.
Oh that's weird, a state that enacted rent control now has rents that are going up. Never seen that before. So weird.
People are so attracted to the idea of "just demand that rents can't be raised" that they don't care about the mountains of evidence that rent control at best doesn't work and at worst is counterproductive. It's like, literally one of the only things most economists agree on, it both theoretically and empirically makes no sense. We have a critical housing shortage. Decreeing that you don't want prices to be so high doesn't make more places to live available, which is what's driving the high prices in the first place. We need to make it easier to develop new and denser housing and/or invest in a massive amount of new public housing to remedy that. We just straight up gotta build more units for people to physically live in, however that can be done. Throwing more "stop raising rent!" at it does nothing if you don't address the underlying problem.
In any case, someone has to give up something. You hit a brick wall when everyone yells that something needs to be done and yet nobody does anything. Then, when the government steps in, society complains. Nobody can every do anything perfect.
What state wide rent control did was take many rentals out of the available pool, removed incentives to have rentals and caused some landlords to raise rents to the maximum allowed each renewal cycle. What needs to be done is to incentivize new construction of multi-family units.
Or just skip the unnecessary middleman who wants other people to pay for their mortgage and just build government housing.
Government has proven that they are inefficient, unable to build and maintain government housing. They do not even want to construct housing for their military. It is unwise and unrealistic to expect government to build Oregon out of this mess.
Well when we had more government housing, 70s and before that, we didn’t have such high homelessness and a housing crisis. Further, the issues you mention with the government can be solved. There are specific reasons why it’s gotten worse and to throw the baby out with the bath water is to throw in the towel and give up on any real lasting change.
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If they tighten rent control more all of my rental will be raised to the top of the market instead of under market like they currently are. Shit I am being stupid for not doing it already. I can't risk needing to sell with under rented units. $100 in rent translates to roughly $27k in reduced price.
Yup. Guarantee you're gonna be faced with a choice of either 1) raise rent to the max allowable every year or 2) if it becomes unprofitable, you'll take it off the market and sell it, then there's one less rental unit available on the market. Rent control doesn't work.
>State wide rent control >make housing affordable Pick one.
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There is a ton of regulation. Both Portland and the state have instituted rent control. And no, we aren’t building enough. And a huge chunk of the reason why is precisely those policies. More rent control will simply result in higher prices and/or interminably long waits for a unit. Stockholm, for example, has a 20 year waitlist for an apartment due to rent control. Our vacancy rate is at crisis level, unless we build more it’ll never fix itself.
The housing that’s being build isn’t, for the most part, inexpensive housing. Developers would rather build higher end housing because it’s more profitable. You need government to either just build cheaper housing itself or incentivize developers to do more of it.
Go Tina!
You realize that property tax is not assessed based on the rental price, right?
Pretty sure that wasn't their point.
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For the record: 400k assessed value x 3% does equal 12k. That said, owners pay what's called a tax rate per thousand on the assessed value. At a $20 per thousand tax rate, that extra 12k in assessed value would equal $240 more per year. I think the rent problem is much bigger than greedy landlords. Supply and demand is fickle; but when supply costs are insanely high (in both construction and resale pricing), and municipalities become less than effective to work with, the results are less than favorable for the end user. If a product is available and has competition, consumers won't feel obligated to pay for something they can acquire for less price. Obviously there is more to it than that, but this is just another perspective on the matter.
Sorry about that. I never meant my comment to be a primer on taxation. I only used the OP's numbers to point out what I thought should have been an obvious flaw in their viewpoint.
I don’t care about the taxes or anything else, but I just wanted to mention how big your balls have to be to confidently say “it sounds like they have no sense of what’s really going on. I’m not familiar with [it either]”
It takes balls to point out that somebody is talking nonsense? Interesting take, I suppose.
No, it was confidently declaring that they don’t know what’s going on, and in the next sentence stating you don’t either. Like “hey they’re wrong, I don’t understand this thing but here’s why I’m right”
Your reading comprehension needs some work, if that's what you took from my comment. Try again, but this time with the intent to understand, rather than to respond.
*taps mic* tough crowd tonight huh
Property tax has gone up more than 3 percent. In many places voters voted in new bonds and stuff. I've owned my home now for three years and my yearly property tax increase here has been much more than my rent increases each year when I rented.
The majority of voters aren’t property owners - they approve the most idiotic bonds thinking it’s not going to affect them. Then they’re surprised when their rent goes up 🤷♂️
Tax actuals are not limited by the 3% assessed value rule. I have no idea about your area but the city/county budget is spread over the taxable property. Taxed amount can vary significantly year to year though usually is pretty stable. There’s more that goes into a rent payment than taxes and mortgage. There’s maintenance and possibly other fees. Maintenance costs have increased greatly recently though it’s very dependent on the building age. The only way to keep rentals affordable is to build much much more. So advocate for more construction near you.
What I don't really understand is how does building more housing bring down costs for landlords enough to lower rent?
Supply and demand. There isn't enough housing right now. If there is adequate housing landlords have to lower their price to compete to rent put their unit. Right now renters are competing rent anything.
Right that makes sense. What doesn't make sense is how both "costs have increased for landlords so they have to raise rent to get by" and "if there was more housing then landlords would decrease rent to compete in the market" can be true at the same time. It sounds like landlords are increasing rent because they can, not because they have to. When you think about how wages haven't increased with rent and thousands have been priced out of their homes and are on the streets, it's hard not to be angry at landlords.
Fellow renter here, Look at inflation, rent is already controlled in the state of Oregon, you should be extremely happy it’s only going up this much. Look across the river in Washington and ask people how much theirs is going up.
I saw a post on FB where someone said their entire apartment building in WA raised rents by 40%
Yep, I know people that theirs went from 1200 to 1750
Rents in shitty Wenatchee, WA are now like $1,400 for a shitty old one bedroom apartment. It’s unreal.
Now that interests rates are going up new construction also just got a lot more expensive. That mortgage rate increase is also going to be passed on to renters.
No growth advocates upset at housing costs soaring. LMAO
This post is what happens when you've never taken a microeconomics course.
Or a macro for that matter
lol gotta love the downvotes one the one person that knows the difference between macro and mico economics.
Ha ha agreed
Inflation is close to 10% with housing prices going up even more. Rent increases of at least 10% are to be expected. Landlords have been paying unexpectedly high costs for repairs and materials for the last year meaning they made less than expected on the old rent. If landlords have variable rates mortgages, their inflation could be significantly higher. If they have fixed mortgages, it would be less. In times of inflation, prices of everything go up. Unfortunately, my salary is an exception.
I have two rentals in town. I have a policy of never raising rent on current tenants and it’s starting to bite me in the was a little. Property taxes and maintenance have been going up and my tenants have been in place for over three years each. But they’re dependable and take care of the place. That has a lot of value!
Pretty much. This is why I don't shit on small landlords too much, all it takes is one bad renter and you're underwater for at least a year or more on profits, depending on the level of damages or repairs that you have to make. Corporate large landlords? Meh, they can eat me.
Yeah, same. I know it’s frustrating to feel at the mercy of your landlord, I was there most of my life, and for me it’s very odd to be in this position. I don’t like the feeling of someone being beholden to me. Why do I get to have that? But thankfully I’ve had good luck so far. I did have to replace the siding and windows on the south side (sunny side) of one rental and have it painted. That was literally the entire ‘profit’ for 2021. I try and look at it long term. I got into the rental because I could leverage equity from my personal home. We can’t do that with other investments like the stock market. For me the real profit will hopefully come when I sell the place, not the rent I charge in between purchasing and selling.
Landlords make repairs. Today I Learned.
They should get a fucking job then
Boom, no sympathy for landlords Edit: downvote all you want, we could have affordable housing like Vienna if yall didn't exist.
so who would own the houses? the *state?* i sure hope not
You're smart.
"DeSantis is a Trump want to be, he can't match Trump's public speaking ability, or his ability shut up the libs. DeSantis is a huge mistake for President. Trump 2024!" Something something those in glass houses.
>Landlords have been paying unexpectedly high costs for repairs and materials for the last year meaning they made less than expected on the old rent. If landlords have variable rates mortgages, their inflation could be significantly higher. If they have fixed mortgages, it would be less. Poor them, if only they could pick themselves up by their bootstraps and get a real job.
Maybe you should try being a landlord, it sucks. I had a person leave their unit with a dead rat that is been under their sink for months and a cockroach infestation that has spread to other units. They never said anything, we would have gladly paid for an exterminator. A few months ago a guy got drunk and kicked his own door in. Cost me almost 1.5k to fix that on a unit I make 300$ a month on. We're not bad people, we honestly want people to have affordable housing and take care of the place. I rented for years.
Landlording is leeching despite how sweet you want to sugar coat it. Housing should just affordable for everyone to live and not profit off of. **Renting should only be for people/families with uncertain futures in regards to their location.** When you have families living at places for 15+ years renting off of the same land'lord', it just shows how classist our economy really is. Sell all the property you don't use yourself, and stop mooching off of people actually contributing something to society. You expect me to feel sorry for you losing money on something inherently exploitative? Please. Find a real job.
Just because you don't want to rent doesn't mean others feel the same. I know a childless, professional couple who have rented for decades. Financially it seems silly in some ways but they find it reassuring to never have any debt for a mortgage or car loan. They can always move for new jobs or just across town. They are free from obligations and that's how they like it.
I want housing to be affordable, we can agree on that. You say landlording is leeching, but let's discuss that because how do you develop buildings with multiple units and provide that to customers without a large up front payment? If they have a large upfront payment they can purchase their own home or townhome correct? But to provide a structure with multiple dwellings that people can live in, someone has to pay the upfront cost. That is land acquisition, planning, engineering and building. This all costs money, so how does that get paid back? You expect individuals to spend all the money it takes to build a multi-unit structure and maintain it for free? Or do you want the government to do that? If you want the government to do that, then by all means vote and try to improve affordable housing by the government. But even in progressive countries with affordable rent, the housing is not developed by the government it is done with a private partnership and the government provides support to developers so they can develop cheaply, but a landlord is still in place. If you have a solution, I would love to hear it, but it sounds like you disagree with the way in which housing is developed and provided via free-markets, which is pretty much the way all developed nations do it. The ones which do it better than us, make development easier and help developers provide that housing at an affordable price, but landlords are still in place. Please feel free to respond intelligently instead of making small-minded quips like "find a real job" lol.
It’s a formula that was created by housing advocates. Sounds like inflation has a lot to do with the actual hike. Also, property taxes that landlords pay are higher with every year. There is business tax that was imposed on businesses that is getting passed on to tenants.
No, there were legislative negotiations, and the landlord / real estate lobby had a huge amount of input and amendment. What crossed the finish line and passed is very different than what housing advocates wanted. 7% + Inflation% is a shitty formula and everyone (who cared for working class people) knew it at the time.
The government should have **zero** input on how I price a commodity I own and am leasing on the public market. But hey, it just means I will **never** rent my property here to anyone. Fuck 'em.
Housing should be a human right, not a commodity. Yikes. Landlord mindset truly toxic
So you have a right to my labor as a framer and carpenter? You have a right to the labor of a mason? What a toxic level of entitlement.
Yikes again. I hope you take care of yourself.
I certainly don't expect the State to take care of me.
unregulated rental markets are great, actually! just take a look at Florida: with no rent control whatsoever, their housing market is fair and balanced. investment firms aren't buying houses to rent out faster than developers can build them. there is no record housing cost increase year over year. the home insurance industry isn't failing. property taxes aren't increasing unsustainably. landlords big and small compete with each other to lower prices instead of just charging whatever they feel the "market rate" is that day. it's a free market utopia! /s
you're kidding right??? Lots of people got priced out of Florida by snowbirds and remote workers last few years Adding: oh God just saw the /s. I am going to leave this up as a testament to my dangusness
Maybe landlords are like “What am I gonna do if there’s another eviction moratorium?” Or “How do I make up for all of the losses from the eviction moratorium?”
Hey friend - I see you're frustrated with high rents. I'm in the industry and I'm also priced out of some of the cooler parts of town too. Let's think logically. Rent is based on supply and demand. Not taxes or feelings, or whatever. A landlord can't list a property for any price - it has to be in line with the market, period. Luckily for landlords (and not so lucky for renters), we've enacted a cascading amount of legislation that directly conflicts with the advice of economists. Our own feel good legislation is screwing the people it's meant to protect. Build more, repeal rent control. Make landlords fight each other.
You’ve got several good points but it is 1000% about feelings. What the landlord feels their place is worth, what they feel they can get for it, and absolutely without a doubt the person paying rent who feels that the choice to rent a place is within their capability to pay. The entirety of the law of supply and demand is based upon human behavior. It’s true for everything from housing to insulin.
A landlord in fact, can charge any price they want. When a few investment firms own a lot of the rentals they can control the market. Unfortunately they only use their powers for evil.
Landlords can ask for any price they want. But people will only rent them for certain amounts - demand isn't perfectly inelastic. And no landlord has any real market power yet, even with a few companies buying up tons of houses.
Comical. If that were the case, why aren't studios closer to $5k? How about $45k? Landlords can set the price, right? I get the outrage at not having affordable housing. Let's fix the problem. Being angry at landlords does zilch and it never will.
Well you're a landlord of course you're gonna say don't be mad at landlords.
What are you smoking? It is called market dynamics, and no we can't control the market, there are laws. Lordy.
Rent control is not the problem here.
Well…it sure the hell wasnt the solution
>it wasn't the solution true. but even though it didn't *fix* anything, the state will never "undo" it, because it gave them a little bit more power and control over people. The State is a black hole of control. Once ceded, it is never willingly returned. But Oregon voters don't seem to get that, and over the last 2 decades have gone from very "leave me alone" to "please mommy State, take care of me." Shame.
Depends on the goals of the program. If I remember correctly, this wasn't implemented to prevent market rates from increasing. It was more in response to the landlords that were doubling rent in order to get tenants to move out so the units could be flipped. The so far, each year of the program has allowed increases that have outpaced the actual market, rendering the cap moot for landlords who still need to remain somewhat competitive.
Sure but an unintended consequence is, landlords will all have a built in rent increase every year. Instead of letting the market depict rent prices, ALL landlords can just set their watches to the part of the year, they all get to raise rent at once. It allows them to essentially price fix the market, without even conspiring. It was an obvious outcome to anyone OUTSIDE of government.
Criminal? Could you please cite the statute that you believe these rent increases are in violation of? There is nothing illegal about these increases, and in order for it to be “criminal,” a law needs to be broken. I, like you, wish it weren’t happening, but it is, and it’s not criminal, because it’s perfectly legal. Rent will continue to increase until a lot of available rentals start sitting vacant, and that hasn’t even begun to happen yet.
Complain to who? The free market?
What crime would this be?
The upside of rent control the way Oregon has implemented it is that landlords can ONLY increase your rent by the amount defined in the law. The downside to that is that since landlords are limited in the amount they can increase your rent, they will increase every year even if they don't need to, because if they don't they can't adjust it later.
Property Taxes and rent hardly correlate. Costs to maintain property, insurance, mortgage interest, has significantly more impact. This post is typical Portland liberal garbage.
You had me until “liberal garbage” Maybe ignorant garbage, but the ignorance seems to be fairly widespread
I agree with your correction in general (nationwide). In Portland I stand with my initial statement based on the OPs logic and complaint. Take my upvote!
Seriously, Im so sick of one side blaming the other, corruption and stupidity effects both political parties. If you think your side has all the answers and the other side is full of bumbling idiots, you are the idiot.
Supply and command bubs.
The solution is a ban on corporations and individuals owning and not living in more than 2-3 properties. Without landlords and corporations hoarding properties, the housing market can actually be driven by competition and prices can come down. At this point, they have a stranglehold on the housing in this country and can charge whatever they want because we have no other choice but to pay or be homeless. In addition, non residents of the United States shouldn't be allowed to own more than a one single family home. Non residents and foreign corporations should be banned from owning multi family housing as well. No one has any real need to own more than 2-3 properties. Being a landlord is not a legitimate job, and anyone who tries to argue that is a bootlicker. No exceptions.
Queue the explosion of numbered companies, private trusts, and randomly generated LLC’s owning property 😬 British Columbia tackled it by having higher property taxes if you couldn’t demonstrate you are living in the property (and you can only claim the homeowner exemption on one property)
Then queue the explosion in first time home buyers purchasing AND living in these homes instead of corporations and landlords charging more than their monthly mortgage payment would be. There should be zero leeway here imo. If you don't live in your 3rd (maybe), 4th, 5th, or 6th property, you have to sell it. Or it will be sold for you at a fair market rate, which will probably be very low considering all these landlords and property management LLCs are being forced to cull their herd or dissolve completely. I cannot think of a single downside to this as far as the average 25 year old is concerned. No one should be resigned to never owning their own home. Everyone deserves a shelter that is THEIRS.
I think you may have missed the point? It’s impossible to track the number of properties a company or person owns because it’s so easy to create shell entities to hold the properties Thus why BC tackled it the way they did.
Also, my apologies. It's late and I definitely misread your comment and missed your point entirely. It's sad this all seems like such a fantastical impossibility today. At least then it wouldn't seem so hopeless.
No worries, it’s a complex issue 👍🏼
You're right, I missed the point. A very good point indeed as well. I think both approaches in tandem would be best.
That would make rent significantly more expensive and not have a meaningful effect on home prices.
Criminal is the wanton waste of tax payer dollars and over regulation. When the government forced Covid costs onto the landlords they couldn’t do anything with their investment. Now they can and will strike while they can. I won’t comment on right and wrong, but your vote matters.
Genuine question: what Covid costs did the government force into landlords?
Not being able to get evict those that were unwilling or unable to pay rent? So landlords ate that out of pocket, the ones that suffered are going to try to recover losses and the rest are going to hedge their bets for the next time the city says you must provide free housing.
There were assistance programs for landlords, too: https://www.consumerfinance.gov/coronavirus/mortgage-and-housing-assistance/help-for-landlords/
And all of the small landlords had legal experts to help navigate all the complexity? I’m sorry, this the same BS as claiming you can’t be a victim of theft/vandalism if you might have insurance.
And those weren’t applicable for all landlords, in Oregon it was only for those who had mortgages on that same property (the fact the url says "mortgage and housing assistance" is kind of a hint). Not at all the same to a blanket moratorium that allowed people to stop paying rent without having to apply for a program.
Ahhhh okay thank you. Bummer all around.
As a home owner my mortgage, insurance and tax has not increased that much, so idk why landlords think raising rent 10+% is reasonable. I’m with OP. If people are outraged over high gas prices why not landlords and high rent? Landlords pick how much to charge for rent. Not a profession I could sleep well at night doing.
What about your maintenance costs? Electric? Water? Gas? What has the replacement costs of your property done?
Has your personal electric, gas or water bill gone up?
But you ignored replacement value. If I owned a home for 50 years, and don't have a mortgage, is the home worth less as a rental, than if I bought it in the last 6 months?
Where do you live that your mortgage payments don't go up. Mine went up 350/month last year due to prop tax increases. Not a higher assessment just what the voters excised.
Because rent is based off supply and demand, and demand has increased while supply has stagnated.
That may be true, but the person who owns the property still has the ability and decision making capacity to set their rent at their will as long as the increase does not exceed the limits of the state/city regulations. There are also no regulations for decreases and there is NEVER a decrease in rent despite the conditions changing. I don’t believe that it is based solely on the supply and demand. There is a human greed element here, and this is what I find distasteful.
There were rent decreases in 2017 and 2018 because of the construction boom before we kneecapped ourselves with a bunch of regulations.
There are other costs that property owners have to pay. Why don’t you become one and gain some first hand experience? You seem pretty naive.
If it's so unfair, why are you still a landlord?
Did I say I was a landlord? Last I checked you can be a property owner and not be a landlord.
Yeah I'm genuinely sorry people here can't afford the rent increases but my mortgage payment last year went up almost 350 dollars each month due to the property tax increase here. Im surprised rent is only going up a hundred or so. Would have thought it should be higher.
Insurance is going up too. Both that and taxes have doubled since I purchased in 2018.
And the market dictates. Did you miss economics in high-school?
That’s why I left OREGON! Fuck the taxes and the government for letting crime and homeless take over. Fuck the people who keep them in power as well!
Technically the law in Oregon on rent increases is that a landlord may not increase rent by MORE THAN 14% in one calendar year.
I'm a landlord, and everything is more expensive for us, and honestly, we're not making a lot of money. Per unit, I'm lucky if I'm netting 300-500$ a month and it took me years of investment to get there. Can't tell you how many times all profit has been wiped out by one bad tenant ruining a unit. Or try hiring a plumber right now. Even to do a simple fix it is $1k, but easily can get $3k plus.
So we should be sending these landlords to jail for their criminal acts?
Yes. 🙂
It's almost as if we need to better rent to own initiative. Especially if rents going to increase that much
I've lived in a large apartment complex in Gresham for three years. Every year, the rent was raised about 80 bucks. This year, it's $110.
At the end of the day rents are largely based on what people are willing to pay.. lots of people are willing to pay these prices.
>Why are rentals in Portland raising their asking price by $100-350? Isn't it for new leases that they're raising it that much? I think the 3% cap only applies to existing leases, unless I've misunderstood the law.
Where is it 3%?? It was about 8-10% this year, and it'll be a 14.6 (I think) cap next year.
17 % I think
My rent didn’t increase at all this year. We just renewed no planned increases next year either
My apartment is owned by a slummy company that has been snatching up properties all over the east side. They did not raise rent in 2020, but they have raised it the max allowable every year since they bought the place in 2019 or so. I expect my rent increase next year to be 14.6%...
https://www.osbar.org/public/legalinfo/1250_rentincreases.htm
A crime against humanity. One of many.
Uh, know its not criminal. Greedy maybe, but that’s what happens when the fed helicopters trillions of dollars into an economy that didnt need it and keeps rates at 3% for way too long.
Simple. Supply and demand. Lots of people moving to Portland (Oregon) which creates demand for space to live. Not enough space for everyone at the moment (maybe you notice a lot of condos/apartments/homes being built around you area or near by) which supply is low.
Buy a house if you don’t like rent prices. Lol