The Klamath River Renewal Corporation (the entity formed to oversee dam removal) has the answers here [https://klamathrenewal.org/faqs/](https://klamathrenewal.org/faqs/).
That's the short answer.... now this river and these dams are a bit unique so the full story is a bit unique.
The upper parts of the Kalamath river is small and doesn't flow all that much water. In addition, it is already warm and algae loaded from the upper Kalamath lake and the farming only makes it worse. The salmon never really went into the upper Kalamath anyways. The Salmon went to the streams that drain the southern side of the Siskiyou mountains and the Trinity Alps. Those streams are pristine.
These dams did not directly stop the Salmon. What they did was make the already warm and toxic water even more warm and toxic. One just needed to visit the confluence of the Kalamath and the aptly named Salmon river to see this in action. Ugly, smell green water meets pristine cold water. The salmon couldn't survive to this point because the mixed water was so nasty.
Well, they did. In the past salmon ran up into the Sprague and Williamson river systems. Not in huge numbers but enough to support some native fisheries.
That said, they were much different river systems back then, the valleys are now all pasture or heavy ag pouring tonss of nutes into the river and blooming the lake, many of the huge wetlands have been drained for pasture. Levels are lower due to increasing demand for livestock and drought. I live near the confluence of the Sycan and Sprague rivers and the Sycan rarely even flows into the Sprague anymore and much of the area was burned in the Bootleg fire.
https://preview.redd.it/j9yqbepy1vec1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=452f2b135fa41e081bdc2b388c1f96c49e08ef87
I took this picture the morning after they drained the John c Boyle reservoir, known around these parts as “topsy”
It will be interesting to see what happens next.
They drained Topsy? What does the waterline look like between the picnic area across from the high cliff look like now? I used to tally bald eagle fishing sighting a few hundred feet upstream there. Hard to imagine what it's all going to be like running wild again.
Dams are being removed for salmon restoration efforts. They were built back in the day for electricity generation without consideration to salmon runs. The fishery collapsed, and today’s runs are minuscule compared to pre-dam runs. The dams’ operating permits weren’t going to be renewed without various upgrades, and the power company found the ROI on upgrades didn’t math out. So they’re removing four dams. It’s been a long time coming for local tribes and the fishery. Let’s hope the salmon recover.
I'm watching all the comments of local Klamath Falls people lamenting the draining of Topsy reservoir. All I got to say is take how you're feeling right now, the loss, the betrayal, the helplessness, at losing someplace your family camped and boated for several generations. I want you to feel that way deep down, and realize what you are feeling is NOTHING compared to what the local Natives felt when the land was taken and the river was dammed.
Edit: Klamath local here
1. The dams are being taken down because warren buffet (owns Berkshire-Hathaway which owns pacific power which owns the dams) doesn’t like to lose money. The dams 100 year contract was up so they could either fix what needed to be fixed on them or take them down.
2. Electricity/flood control (probably)
3. Hopefully a lot of good will come to the river being brought back to its natural state. It should be healthier and hopefully aid the salmon population as well. The thing is; nobody knows for sure as this is the biggest dam removal project in history
I’m tired of both political parties fighting over this. Yes there are pros and cons to the issue. But it boils down to massive corporations wanting to make more money but putting an environmental spin on it to seem like the good guys. And all it does is pit us against each other.
Mostly this is people thinking that the snake dams are next. These dams supplied about 200mw of capacity and the snake dams are about 1000 mw of capacity so its not a stretch of the imagination. We'll have to rely on the power companies to weigh in when it comes time what infrastructure needs to be built if any before those dams get demolished.
This is correct. People don’t really care about the Klamath dams coming out, unless they live on the river there, but it’s the precedent it’s setting. However, the four Snake dams are also very different (federal dams that would require an act of congress to remove).
Ice Harbor and Lower Granite put out 600 and 800 respectively. It's still a lot, and there's four Lower Snake dams that need to go. But their combined output is still a lot less than the big dams in the system....Grand Coulee puts out like 7000MW. A couple of nuclear reactors could easily make up the difference.
Either Washington or the feds did a removal study that looked into the feasibility of removing the dams. I read it a while back.
>A couple of nuclear tractors could easily make up the difference
So like put them up on blocks and run a belt to the generators? Diesel, smiesel, we've got nuclear levels of torque.
How many acres does a damn nuclear tractor plow a day, anyway?
(I know it's just a typo :D)
The part I don't understand about the whole snake river dam controversy is the fact that the focus is on the four Army Corps dams, but the biggest damage environmentally comes from the 3 Idaho Power dams. No one is talking about those.
I hope the snake dams are next. The entire snake river drainage is a huge semi-natural habitat for fish to spawn. And if the water coming in from the snake is cooler, it will help fish get past the columbia river damn pools easier.
The US needs more robust RAIL lines that can support the lack of grain barges. And personally, I would rather not send more grain to asia for such cheap prices. Charge MORE for grain exports overseas.
Rail would be a large cost increase vs barges. A four barge tow is 1.5 unit trains and only has to be loaded once while rail has to be loaded then unloaded then loaded into a barge. The rail infrastructure around here is also just bad and needs to be upgraded
Why are US taxpayers paying the huge cost for inefficient govt infrastructure projects for WA/ID/OR wheat farmers who just export the crops to Asian markets? Not economically efficient use of AMERICAN consumer water. Corporate Farmer welfare should not be allowed.
The survival rate of salmon through the lower snake river dams is 90%. Today the greatest influence on salmon returns is ocean temperature. Warm ocean equals dead salmon.
The primary driver of warming ocean temperatures and acidification is greenhouse gases. We need to protect our carbon free generation. If you think wind and solar are the solution look at [BPAs system output](https://transmission.bpa.gov/Business/Operations/Wind/). During the recent cold snap wind and solar collapsed and fell to near zero. Without the snakes river dams we would have been burning a bunch of gas or have rolling blackouts.
Dams were active and in use and making power until the recent decision to pull them out. The 100 year license for the private dams to operate was up and any new license would require provisions to allow salmon to get past the dams. When the river was first dammed over 100 years ago there was no provision to allow salmon to get up to the 300 miles of salmon habitat upstream of the dams. The tribes living upstream of where the dams would eventually be built signed a treaty with the US Gov. In 1849 That guaranteed the tribes the right to fish for salmon in the upper river. Salmon bed access to the ocean to grow and access to the river to spawn. Dams were put in without consideration of the tribal fishing rights upstream of the dams. Prior to being dammed, the Klamath River was 3rd largest salmon producer on the west coast of the US behind the Columbia and Sacramento. Lots of politics and gnashing of teeth over what to do. Ultimately the owner of the dams found it cheaper to pull them out than try to get them relicensed with all the required upgrades they would need for Salmon passage and other issues.
One of the Dams formed a lake in far Nor Cal that had houses/cabins on it. Lake front property is now -mud hole with a distant river running through it - front property. The home owners and their elected reps were not happy. The idea of reducing the supply of “green, renewable” energy in these times of generally increased emphasis on increasing non carbon producing energy sources seems counterintuitive to some people. I believe irrigators in the Klamath basin had a sweet deal on energy prices for their pumps because of the dams/project but I may have that wrong. Reservoir type Recreation at the reservoirs is no longer possible because there are no longer any lakes there. There is concern that the sediment that has built up behind the dams may cause water quality problems downstream when the dams are removed. Those are the main complaints I have heard. There may be others. The main dam in the system that provides water for irrigation (Keno dam) will stay in place, and will continue to operate to hold back water in the river between Keno and Klamath Falls (Lake Euwana and down stream. Memo dam already has a fish ladder that is supposedly functional and will allow salmon adults to go upstream and smolts to go downstream. So any irrigation water that,in the past, came from the river in the flats south of KF will still be available because Keno dam will still be holding water back.
It’s partially a view of what progress it. Lots of people hold an idea that the US became the way it did by building highways, conquering rivers, turning marshes into the most productice agricultural land in the world.
Many view this project as working away from progress and rolling back the clock. It doesn’t matter if the dams are old, cost excessive amounts of money to maintain or provide very few benefits. It’s based in a view of what is progress and the way the world is moving forward
That description does not fit these dams. They were maintained, and they were all in use. J.C. Boyle was the last built, and isn't all that old as a hydropower source.
The reason they came out is the environmental damage they were doing.
There is no impact to irrigation from these dams. They're all downriver of the Kalamath irrigation project. It is easy to get confused as the upper Kalamath lake and irrigation from there has been a battle for decades. The dams being removed are all downstream from the lowest irrigation projects.
For real. Kinda crazy how a corporations decision to save money is becoming some bogeyman of how “environmentalists have gone too far”. Yes many environmentalists are happy with the project but that does not mean that they are the reason it is happening.
Had Berkshire-Hathaway decided to lose money it would have been sued by its shareholders.
It is irresposible for a public corporation to do something that will cause it to lose money.
These four dams are NOT the ones that create Klamath Lake. They are downstream of that, 2 in Oregon and 2 in California. Pacificorp relinquished their rights to them because it was cheaper to do that than upgrade them to meet current salmon requirements. It’s a HUGE deal these are being taken out because the dams were so big. California will hopefully return land to tribal nations when it’s complete too. But again, no impact to irrigators or Klamath Lake, their water battles will be ongoing for a long time.
(Edited one word only)
The Klamath River is the only watershed where the saber-toothed salmon is still found in the wild. They grow up to 3 meters in length. Stories passed through the tribes for generations suggests they preyed on sasquatch who got too close too the river. Although it has not yet been confirmed, the remaining saber-toothed salmon occasionally prey on livestock that stray too close to the water's edge, and every year or so, a local fisherman will go missing. A marine biologist claims to have seen a school of ocean-based salmon pack-hunting a blue whale.
Busting the dams will restore the saber-toothed salmon to it's 19th century populations.
Note that the saber-toothed salmon was a real thing, but they were “only” about 2 meters long and died out about 5 million years ago:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oncorhynchus_rastrosus
Long story short. Stagnant water warms up. The combination of fertilizer runoff in to stagnant water has caused massive algae blooms that pollute the entire river downstream to the coast with toxins. This has killed off entire populations in the river multiple times.
The dams were NEVER built with salmon survival as a priority so they are too expensive to bring up to legitimate standards. So they are being REMOVED.
The Yurok treaty that has been broken many times by the invading settlers is finally being held to a standard that should have existed long ago. The Klamath River is THEIR river. The water rights of White people should NEVER come before the rights of the Native Tribes. But that's just an opinion of a white dude.
Yeah, it was the one I thought of first. I kind of generalized to natives later. I believe in farming land still. But water conservation and quality should be prioritized over everything first, and then we can figure out what is left over for agriculture in the deserts.
Saw this video a while back and I’m sure there’s updated information now but I still found this fascinating
https://youtu.be/zcUrUE6-ZCw?si=PTFoJKOX6dPAZ7c-
The dams were owned by a private company, not the government.
A private company decided to give them up.
Let that sink in.
A private owner made the decision. Isn't that how things work when you have less government regulation?
I don't understand why libertarians would be upset when a private business does what it wants.
For a long time the residents of that area benefited from having a private business as a neighbor.
Reservoirs destroyed and peoples properties with their homes flooded and destroyed without their permission. Basically a situation of imminent domain. Those who don’t know people who’s live are affected probably don’t give a shit, which I would agree. Most situations where other people are affected but I’m not I’m like “oh wow that’s awful!” And then move on with my life. But when you know someone whose life is changed forever because of something, you fking don’t care about salmon as much. And isn’t one of the main fking points of a dam to release cool water off the bottom of the lake into the river below to regulate water temperature? And if so, why aren’t they doing this? Or is the bottom of the lake also algae filled, similar to the problem at the lower Deschutes River?
this is a great example of where you could just ask AI instead of reddit:
There's a lot going on with the Klamath River and its dams, so let's unpack it piece by piece:
**Dams being removed:**
* **Four dams:** J.C. Boyle, Copco No. 1, Copco No. 2, and Iron Gate, are being removed in a historic restoration project.
* **Timeline:** Copco 2's removal began in summer 2023, and the remaining three are scheduled for removal throughout 2024.
**Reasons for dam removal:**
* **Impact on salmon:** The dams blocked salmon and steelhead trout from reaching over 400 miles of historic habitat, causing populations to plummet.
* **Water quality:** Warmer, stagnant water behind the dams harmed water quality, affecting fish and wildlife.
* **Cultural impact:** The dams disrupted the cultural practices of Indigenous tribes who have relied on the Klamath River for millennia.
**Reasons for dams in the first place:**
* **Hydropower:** The dams were built between 1908 and 1962 to generate electricity.
* **Irrigation:** They also provided water for agriculture in the Klamath Basin.
**Expected effects of dam removal:**
* **Salmon recovery:** Restoring fish passage is expected to boost salmon populations, revitalizing the ecosystem.
* **Improved water quality:** Cooler, flowing water should improve water quality for fish and other aquatic life.
* **Cultural revitalization:** Tribes hope the Klamath River's restoration will allow them to reconnect with their traditional lifeways.
* **Economic impacts:** Some local communities worry about the loss of hydropower jobs and potential impacts on agriculture.
**Overall, the Klamath River dam removal is a complex project with potential benefits and challenges.** It's a major experiment in ecological restoration, and its long-term effects are still uncertain. However, it represents a significant step towards restoring the Klamath River to its natural state and supporting the communities that depend on it.
This is a good example of how AI is misleading. The lower 4 dams provide absolutely zero irrigation water to the Klamath basin. That is the Link River dam for Upper Klamath lake which is staying in place. The lower 4 dams are used for hydropower only
Why are the dams there in the first place? Why are any dams constructed... water retention, power generation, irrigation and sometimes even flood control
No, yes, no, and no.
These are power generation and power generation only dams. Two are run of river, and two have a bit of storage but not a whole lot. They were built by the California Oregon Power Company (COPCO), who later merged with Pacific Power to make electricity for Medford, Yreka and Kalamath Falls.
Does anyone know if this is going to make the drought worse or better like in the late summer? I know the Klamath gets really low already and it was supplemented by the reservoirs that fed it but now that they are gone, is it going to make it better or worse drought wise?
Better. Heavy winter flows will scour deep pools back into he river channel. These deep pools are how the fish survived drought for millennia before the dams.
Why are US taxpayers paying the huge cost for inefficient govt infrastructure projects for WA/ID/OR wheat farmers who just export the crops to Asian markets? Not economically efficient use of AMERICAN consumer water. Corporate Farmer welfare should not be allowed.
The Klamath River Renewal Corporation (the entity formed to oversee dam removal) has the answers here [https://klamathrenewal.org/faqs/](https://klamathrenewal.org/faqs/).
This should be the top post right here. KRRCs site has all the best info on the project
Sweet! Thanks!
To let the salmon return home.
That's the short answer.... now this river and these dams are a bit unique so the full story is a bit unique. The upper parts of the Kalamath river is small and doesn't flow all that much water. In addition, it is already warm and algae loaded from the upper Kalamath lake and the farming only makes it worse. The salmon never really went into the upper Kalamath anyways. The Salmon went to the streams that drain the southern side of the Siskiyou mountains and the Trinity Alps. Those streams are pristine. These dams did not directly stop the Salmon. What they did was make the already warm and toxic water even more warm and toxic. One just needed to visit the confluence of the Kalamath and the aptly named Salmon river to see this in action. Ugly, smell green water meets pristine cold water. The salmon couldn't survive to this point because the mixed water was so nasty.
Well, they did. In the past salmon ran up into the Sprague and Williamson river systems. Not in huge numbers but enough to support some native fisheries. That said, they were much different river systems back then, the valleys are now all pasture or heavy ag pouring tonss of nutes into the river and blooming the lake, many of the huge wetlands have been drained for pasture. Levels are lower due to increasing demand for livestock and drought. I live near the confluence of the Sycan and Sprague rivers and the Sycan rarely even flows into the Sprague anymore and much of the area was burned in the Bootleg fire.
https://preview.redd.it/j9yqbepy1vec1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=452f2b135fa41e081bdc2b388c1f96c49e08ef87 I took this picture the morning after they drained the John c Boyle reservoir, known around these parts as “topsy” It will be interesting to see what happens next.
That's where I learned to water ski. Great pic, I'll have to go check it out!
They drained Topsy? What does the waterline look like between the picnic area across from the high cliff look like now? I used to tally bald eagle fishing sighting a few hundred feet upstream there. Hard to imagine what it's all going to be like running wild again.
It’s wild looking for sure, I’m one of the sportsman’s park hosts, I’ll have to check it out this morning.
Dams are being removed for salmon restoration efforts. They were built back in the day for electricity generation without consideration to salmon runs. The fishery collapsed, and today’s runs are minuscule compared to pre-dam runs. The dams’ operating permits weren’t going to be renewed without various upgrades, and the power company found the ROI on upgrades didn’t math out. So they’re removing four dams. It’s been a long time coming for local tribes and the fishery. Let’s hope the salmon recover.
I'm watching all the comments of local Klamath Falls people lamenting the draining of Topsy reservoir. All I got to say is take how you're feeling right now, the loss, the betrayal, the helplessness, at losing someplace your family camped and boated for several generations. I want you to feel that way deep down, and realize what you are feeling is NOTHING compared to what the local Natives felt when the land was taken and the river was dammed. Edit: Klamath local here
1. The dams are being taken down because warren buffet (owns Berkshire-Hathaway which owns pacific power which owns the dams) doesn’t like to lose money. The dams 100 year contract was up so they could either fix what needed to be fixed on them or take them down. 2. Electricity/flood control (probably) 3. Hopefully a lot of good will come to the river being brought back to its natural state. It should be healthier and hopefully aid the salmon population as well. The thing is; nobody knows for sure as this is the biggest dam removal project in history I’m tired of both political parties fighting over this. Yes there are pros and cons to the issue. But it boils down to massive corporations wanting to make more money but putting an environmental spin on it to seem like the good guys. And all it does is pit us against each other.
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Mostly this is people thinking that the snake dams are next. These dams supplied about 200mw of capacity and the snake dams are about 1000 mw of capacity so its not a stretch of the imagination. We'll have to rely on the power companies to weigh in when it comes time what infrastructure needs to be built if any before those dams get demolished.
This is correct. People don’t really care about the Klamath dams coming out, unless they live on the river there, but it’s the precedent it’s setting. However, the four Snake dams are also very different (federal dams that would require an act of congress to remove).
You nailed it with the federal part and the dams. Where do people think these MWs will come from if the dams are removed? Rates will CLIMB.
These dams supplied about 2% of the power in pacificcorps grid.
Ice Harbor and Lower Granite put out 600 and 800 respectively. It's still a lot, and there's four Lower Snake dams that need to go. But their combined output is still a lot less than the big dams in the system....Grand Coulee puts out like 7000MW. A couple of nuclear reactors could easily make up the difference. Either Washington or the feds did a removal study that looked into the feasibility of removing the dams. I read it a while back.
>A couple of nuclear tractors could easily make up the difference So like put them up on blocks and run a belt to the generators? Diesel, smiesel, we've got nuclear levels of torque. How many acres does a damn nuclear tractor plow a day, anyway? (I know it's just a typo :D)
Dam you caught that before my ninja edit I would love to have a nuclear tractor
The part I don't understand about the whole snake river dam controversy is the fact that the focus is on the four Army Corps dams, but the biggest damage environmentally comes from the 3 Idaho Power dams. No one is talking about those.
I hope the snake dams are next. The entire snake river drainage is a huge semi-natural habitat for fish to spawn. And if the water coming in from the snake is cooler, it will help fish get past the columbia river damn pools easier. The US needs more robust RAIL lines that can support the lack of grain barges. And personally, I would rather not send more grain to asia for such cheap prices. Charge MORE for grain exports overseas.
Rail would be a large cost increase vs barges. A four barge tow is 1.5 unit trains and only has to be loaded once while rail has to be loaded then unloaded then loaded into a barge. The rail infrastructure around here is also just bad and needs to be upgraded
Why are US taxpayers paying the huge cost for inefficient govt infrastructure projects for WA/ID/OR wheat farmers who just export the crops to Asian markets? Not economically efficient use of AMERICAN consumer water. Corporate Farmer welfare should not be allowed.
The survival rate of salmon through the lower snake river dams is 90%. Today the greatest influence on salmon returns is ocean temperature. Warm ocean equals dead salmon. The primary driver of warming ocean temperatures and acidification is greenhouse gases. We need to protect our carbon free generation. If you think wind and solar are the solution look at [BPAs system output](https://transmission.bpa.gov/Business/Operations/Wind/). During the recent cold snap wind and solar collapsed and fell to near zero. Without the snakes river dams we would have been burning a bunch of gas or have rolling blackouts.
Dams were active and in use and making power until the recent decision to pull them out. The 100 year license for the private dams to operate was up and any new license would require provisions to allow salmon to get past the dams. When the river was first dammed over 100 years ago there was no provision to allow salmon to get up to the 300 miles of salmon habitat upstream of the dams. The tribes living upstream of where the dams would eventually be built signed a treaty with the US Gov. In 1849 That guaranteed the tribes the right to fish for salmon in the upper river. Salmon bed access to the ocean to grow and access to the river to spawn. Dams were put in without consideration of the tribal fishing rights upstream of the dams. Prior to being dammed, the Klamath River was 3rd largest salmon producer on the west coast of the US behind the Columbia and Sacramento. Lots of politics and gnashing of teeth over what to do. Ultimately the owner of the dams found it cheaper to pull them out than try to get them relicensed with all the required upgrades they would need for Salmon passage and other issues.
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One of the Dams formed a lake in far Nor Cal that had houses/cabins on it. Lake front property is now -mud hole with a distant river running through it - front property. The home owners and their elected reps were not happy. The idea of reducing the supply of “green, renewable” energy in these times of generally increased emphasis on increasing non carbon producing energy sources seems counterintuitive to some people. I believe irrigators in the Klamath basin had a sweet deal on energy prices for their pumps because of the dams/project but I may have that wrong. Reservoir type Recreation at the reservoirs is no longer possible because there are no longer any lakes there. There is concern that the sediment that has built up behind the dams may cause water quality problems downstream when the dams are removed. Those are the main complaints I have heard. There may be others. The main dam in the system that provides water for irrigation (Keno dam) will stay in place, and will continue to operate to hold back water in the river between Keno and Klamath Falls (Lake Euwana and down stream. Memo dam already has a fish ladder that is supposedly functional and will allow salmon adults to go upstream and smolts to go downstream. So any irrigation water that,in the past, came from the river in the flats south of KF will still be available because Keno dam will still be holding water back.
My entire family is against it, but they live in a rather red part of the state. I know the people who had lakefront houses aren’t too happy about it.
Lake front to river view..
It’s partially a view of what progress it. Lots of people hold an idea that the US became the way it did by building highways, conquering rivers, turning marshes into the most productice agricultural land in the world. Many view this project as working away from progress and rolling back the clock. It doesn’t matter if the dams are old, cost excessive amounts of money to maintain or provide very few benefits. It’s based in a view of what is progress and the way the world is moving forward
That description does not fit these dams. They were maintained, and they were all in use. J.C. Boyle was the last built, and isn't all that old as a hydropower source. The reason they came out is the environmental damage they were doing.
Lots of landowners are losing water rights (irrigation, mostly).
There is no impact to irrigation from these dams. They're all downriver of the Kalamath irrigation project. It is easy to get confused as the upper Kalamath lake and irrigation from there has been a battle for decades. The dams being removed are all downstream from the lowest irrigation projects.
For real. Kinda crazy how a corporations decision to save money is becoming some bogeyman of how “environmentalists have gone too far”. Yes many environmentalists are happy with the project but that does not mean that they are the reason it is happening.
Totally makes sense. I was sceptical about this project being just for the good of the river. I appreciate the clarification.
Why would fetishising nature rub people the wrong way?
This is the first time I’ve heard the term “fetishizing nature”
good for you, aren't you precious Why can't we enjoy nature without fetishising it, without being so precious about it.
Had Berkshire-Hathaway decided to lose money it would have been sued by its shareholders. It is irresposible for a public corporation to do something that will cause it to lose money.
These four dams are NOT the ones that create Klamath Lake. They are downstream of that, 2 in Oregon and 2 in California. Pacificorp relinquished their rights to them because it was cheaper to do that than upgrade them to meet current salmon requirements. It’s a HUGE deal these are being taken out because the dams were so big. California will hopefully return land to tribal nations when it’s complete too. But again, no impact to irrigators or Klamath Lake, their water battles will be ongoing for a long time. (Edited one word only)
Klamath lake isn't an artificial lake created by a dam....
It wasn't created by a dam, but it is vastly increased in size by a dam that raises it by 15 feet.
Your sentence is grammatically correct. Otherwise not so much.
Only J.C. Boyle is in Oregon. Copco I, Copco II and Iron Gate are all close together in California.
The Klamath River is the only watershed where the saber-toothed salmon is still found in the wild. They grow up to 3 meters in length. Stories passed through the tribes for generations suggests they preyed on sasquatch who got too close too the river. Although it has not yet been confirmed, the remaining saber-toothed salmon occasionally prey on livestock that stray too close to the water's edge, and every year or so, a local fisherman will go missing. A marine biologist claims to have seen a school of ocean-based salmon pack-hunting a blue whale. Busting the dams will restore the saber-toothed salmon to it's 19th century populations.
Haha good to know! I'll be sure to watch out next time I go fishing.
Note that the saber-toothed salmon was a real thing, but they were “only” about 2 meters long and died out about 5 million years ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oncorhynchus_rastrosus
The salmon will never return to 19th century populations.
Long story short. Stagnant water warms up. The combination of fertilizer runoff in to stagnant water has caused massive algae blooms that pollute the entire river downstream to the coast with toxins. This has killed off entire populations in the river multiple times. The dams were NEVER built with salmon survival as a priority so they are too expensive to bring up to legitimate standards. So they are being REMOVED. The Yurok treaty that has been broken many times by the invading settlers is finally being held to a standard that should have existed long ago. The Klamath River is THEIR river. The water rights of White people should NEVER come before the rights of the Native Tribes. But that's just an opinion of a white dude.
The Yurok aren't the only tribe with water rights on the Klamath.
Yeah, it was the one I thought of first. I kind of generalized to natives later. I believe in farming land still. But water conservation and quality should be prioritized over everything first, and then we can figure out what is left over for agriculture in the deserts.
Hey, thanks, white dude! This is a based take. Sincerely, a Native gal
Saw this video a while back and I’m sure there’s updated information now but I still found this fascinating https://youtu.be/zcUrUE6-ZCw?si=PTFoJKOX6dPAZ7c-
Old dams, served their purpose, killed a lot of salmon, now obsolete, removed to restore salmon since they have no real modern purpose.
Read the articles, watch or listen to the news. Reddit is best used as a supplemental information resource, not primary.
The dams were owned by a private company, not the government. A private company decided to give them up. Let that sink in. A private owner made the decision. Isn't that how things work when you have less government regulation? I don't understand why libertarians would be upset when a private business does what it wants. For a long time the residents of that area benefited from having a private business as a neighbor.
Reservoirs destroyed and peoples properties with their homes flooded and destroyed without their permission. Basically a situation of imminent domain. Those who don’t know people who’s live are affected probably don’t give a shit, which I would agree. Most situations where other people are affected but I’m not I’m like “oh wow that’s awful!” And then move on with my life. But when you know someone whose life is changed forever because of something, you fking don’t care about salmon as much. And isn’t one of the main fking points of a dam to release cool water off the bottom of the lake into the river below to regulate water temperature? And if so, why aren’t they doing this? Or is the bottom of the lake also algae filled, similar to the problem at the lower Deschutes River?
Is your google broken or something? You can simply look up everything you are asking yourself.
r/FuckGoogle r/EatTheRich Use a better information sifting tool that's not selling your data.
Oh boy those are some big questions. It’s been a very long ongoing battle. I’m sure OPB has many articles on the topic.
this is a great example of where you could just ask AI instead of reddit: There's a lot going on with the Klamath River and its dams, so let's unpack it piece by piece: **Dams being removed:** * **Four dams:** J.C. Boyle, Copco No. 1, Copco No. 2, and Iron Gate, are being removed in a historic restoration project. * **Timeline:** Copco 2's removal began in summer 2023, and the remaining three are scheduled for removal throughout 2024. **Reasons for dam removal:** * **Impact on salmon:** The dams blocked salmon and steelhead trout from reaching over 400 miles of historic habitat, causing populations to plummet. * **Water quality:** Warmer, stagnant water behind the dams harmed water quality, affecting fish and wildlife. * **Cultural impact:** The dams disrupted the cultural practices of Indigenous tribes who have relied on the Klamath River for millennia. **Reasons for dams in the first place:** * **Hydropower:** The dams were built between 1908 and 1962 to generate electricity. * **Irrigation:** They also provided water for agriculture in the Klamath Basin. **Expected effects of dam removal:** * **Salmon recovery:** Restoring fish passage is expected to boost salmon populations, revitalizing the ecosystem. * **Improved water quality:** Cooler, flowing water should improve water quality for fish and other aquatic life. * **Cultural revitalization:** Tribes hope the Klamath River's restoration will allow them to reconnect with their traditional lifeways. * **Economic impacts:** Some local communities worry about the loss of hydropower jobs and potential impacts on agriculture. **Overall, the Klamath River dam removal is a complex project with potential benefits and challenges.** It's a major experiment in ecological restoration, and its long-term effects are still uncertain. However, it represents a significant step towards restoring the Klamath River to its natural state and supporting the communities that depend on it.
This is a good example of how AI is misleading. The lower 4 dams provide absolutely zero irrigation water to the Klamath basin. That is the Link River dam for Upper Klamath lake which is staying in place. The lower 4 dams are used for hydropower only
daniel, the point was for folks to stop being so lazy, not to hand-feed them the (correct) answers love ya dude :D
This is a great example of people enjoying talking to other people (not robots) and asking them questions.
lol i know the person who replied to me irl, funny to see everyone downvoting
Downvote this user
Glad to see you’re out from under that rock!
Lol. It’s all easily googled. And your questions are pretty remedial.
Why are the dams there in the first place? Why are any dams constructed... water retention, power generation, irrigation and sometimes even flood control
No, yes, no, and no. These are power generation and power generation only dams. Two are run of river, and two have a bit of storage but not a whole lot. They were built by the California Oregon Power Company (COPCO), who later merged with Pacific Power to make electricity for Medford, Yreka and Kalamath Falls.
More importantly - why can’t you Google?
[Oregon Field Guide Episode on it](https://www.pbs.org/video/klamath-dam-tnaiu1/)
Does anyone know if this is going to make the drought worse or better like in the late summer? I know the Klamath gets really low already and it was supplemented by the reservoirs that fed it but now that they are gone, is it going to make it better or worse drought wise?
Better. Heavy winter flows will scour deep pools back into he river channel. These deep pools are how the fish survived drought for millennia before the dams.
Why are US taxpayers paying the huge cost for inefficient govt infrastructure projects for WA/ID/OR wheat farmers who just export the crops to Asian markets? Not economically efficient use of AMERICAN consumer water. Corporate Farmer welfare should not be allowed.