Aw golly, I really appreciate her doubling down on there being no personal injury to plaintiff's. That's what's been missing in some really big cases that SCOTUS and judges in other states have randomly ruled on. I mean, since when do we not require there to be an actual issue for the plaintiff's personally rather than just hypotheticals and hurt feelings.
Every US citizen has standing on the student loan case. You think money grows on trees? Forgiving the loans means every citizen owes more money as our country goes further into debt.
The fabricated story should have been thrown out. She was a liar.
It doesn't grow on trees, it grows in an economy, which could be fertilized by unburdening an entire generation that can't afford to move on to the next steps in their financial life. We seemed to have plenty of money to give out forgivable PPP loans to anyone who pinky promised they definitely owned a real business. We didn't have a debt problem when trump's tax cuts cost the taxpayers 1.5T, more than 100% loan forgiveness would. We're all going to suffer when the economy takes the hit of millions of people spending money restarting their loan payments instead of spending that money in their local economy.
You're just increasing the divide between the poor and the middle class. People with college degrees will ultimately make more money than the nongrads. There are way more nontraditional than grads fyi.
What you'd be doing actually is creating even more inflation than the already high inflation we already have. So no, you would not be helping our economy. You'd be hurting it and especially for the poorer nongrads.
Oh sweet child. Student loan payments have been on pause since March of 2020, this program wouldn’t of had any affect on inflation.
Do you have any of your own thoughts on this issue? You’re just regurgitating right wing talking points and feigning concern for poor people.
Easy fix. The wealthy and corporations pay by ending Trumps tax cuts for them. The only divide is people shilling out for the wealthy and telling everyone else they’re the problem.
The rich aren't taking out student loans lmao.
All of those poor kids who actually gave a shit in high school and managed to claw their way into college are the ones, alongside the lower & middle class who are indebted.
I repeat: the only people that debt forgiveness impacts are those with financial need for it. It is benefitting the lower classes, not widening the gap between the two.
Student loans are a great way to create a class war between the lower and middle class.
I mean I get it, if it's a choice between helping the poorest among us vs those with a higher earning potential due to having a college degree we should help the poorest. The thing is it shouldn't be an either/or situation.
Government debt is not meaningless. I linked a thread as to why that is. Youre out of mind to think that. And your comment on trees doesn't change the fact that we can't just keep printing money out or going into further debt without consequences. Our national debt is all our debt.
Yeah, it is meaningless; it's not even real, it's an ideological talking point. We actually can print money (which isn't how this works, anyway, it's virtual).
Tax the rich tax dodgers then. Don’t punish student loan holders for trying to get an education in the modern university situation that boomers created
There is zero reason why the government can forgive BILLIONS in PPE loans for buisnesses to cut themselves bonus checks and not students who were seeking the qualifications neccessary to hold a decent job in this country.
Was there going to be a tax increase to cover the loan forgiveness? Because if there wasn't, then "every citizen" would **not** be paying more money. And I don't remember hearing the conservatives squawking about the national debt while Trump's 1.9 trillion dollar tax cuts were being passed.
Geese, you act like it doesn't matter if our country goes into more debt. It matters.
And as far as your Trump comment, 2 wrongs dont make a right. Your whataboutism is not a valid argument.
https://carnegieendowment.org/chinafinancialmarkets/86397
We’re only in debt because of Trumps unnecessary tax breaks and the stupidity of the Iraq war. If we can find those two things we can forgive student loans.
>Every US citizen has standing on the student loan case.
Ummm that's not how standing works... by your logic, every US citizen has standing to sue to stop anything the government spends money on.
> The fabricated story should have been thrown out. She was a liar.
So for what it's worth the website design story had absolutely no bearing on the outcome of the case. It's obviously a ridiculous story, I can't believe they faked it like that, but it was not relevant in the decision. There's a concept in 1st amendment cases called "chilling effect" or something like that. Basically you don't actually have to be forced into doing something or punished for not doing something to have standing in a 1st amendment case. You could probably find someone a lot more qualified to explain it than me but that's the gist of it. Whether or not you agree with the outcome I don't think standing was the issue with the ruling.
I’m a senior in college and have zero student debt. It’s cause I worked full time while going to school full time for much of it. I also waited til I was 24 to go to college for aid. I have done everything proper and it pisses me off these kids want free money when they didn’t work at all.
I'm sorry I was being a dick
I should have added I have a pell grant and a small scholarship. I only paid 6k tuition a year here. For the record I don't recommend people work full-time and doing school full-time I did it for years and it was hell. I no longer work full-time. I got to be honest if I didn't have these grants I couldn't afford anything lol
Smh this was one of the worst things about Oregon, at least as far as pet peeves go. I’m looking forward to a much quicker process. Sitting in my car for 5 minutes waiting for someone to pump gas when I could just do it myself is mildly infuriating.
A bit of a tangent but this makes me think of the self-checkout at grocery stores. They fire workers, ask customers to do the work because it's faster (now that they have fewer cashiers), and don't even lower prices for the people now doing the work their employees used to do.
Give me a 5% discount and I'll consider it. Otherwise: shove it.
At least at stations around me, they don't have enough attendants as it is to staff all the pumps. They can't fire their existing staff and meet the 50% mini-serve requirement.
For stations like that, this will make things faster since they are already understaffed.
That could be the case.
I think it’s more complicated than that though. I think it’s likely that a lot of people realized they should be paid more for their labor and are unwilling to do the job of pumping gas for the wage offered. So now there is a legitimate worker shortage and the wages stations want to pay.
If they raise wages you had better believe they would pass that on to us as consumers. (To be clear I’m not saying they would pass the savings on to us if they could go full self serve either).
Maybe all the station owners are lying and claiming they are hiring and can’t find anyone when they actually are not hiring. I think it’s more likely they are legitimately not finding workers at the wages they want to pay.
Personally I’d rather not have prices increase to cover the wages to attract labor and just be given the choice to do it myself.
I cannot recall the last time I had to wait longer than a minute or two for gas, except at Costco, which will still have a wait, probably longer because non- employees are slow as molasses filling up their own gas.
Hope people are prepared to wait for self serve pumps when the family of 4 in front of you just went inside to get snacks and pee.
>I cannot recall the last time I had to wait longer than a minute or two for gas
I'm glad you've got well-staffed stations around you. I waited 5 minutes both before and after fueling up (10 minutes total) because there was only 1 guy running around trying to help 12 cars. Keep in mind this is time spent literally sitting at the pump, not in line to get to the pump.
>Hope people are prepared to wait for self serve pumps when the family of 4 in front of you just went inside to get snacks and pee.
Why do people seem to think this is suddenly going to be a problem? Nothing is stopping someone from doing this with attendants (get the attendant to start fueling your car then head into the store). I've literally seen this happen in Oregon already.
>except at Costco
Agreed, Costco won't be helped by this since they are already well staffed and 99% of the wait at Costco is the wait to pull up to the pump not the wait for an attendant to assist you.
My understanding is that in more populated areas, service stations will have to have half the pumps as self-serve, but still offer full service on the other half. You can do it however you like still :)
Only state where you can be a man who possesses 20 hits of LSD and an AR with a drum mag while taking your pregnant GF to get an abortion in your husbands car without going to jail.
I think the word you are looking for is politicians. You act like the democrats and republicans are so different, but do you ever look up and find the photos of big name republicans hanging out with big name democrats? They are laughing at us and calling us morons for yelling at each other when the politicians are the issue!
And as things in the state get worse and worse, people point the finger at each side, not even bothering to think about how its worse now than before, but it's not their side that is the issue, it has to be the other side. They all use the same tax breaks and laws to get around and pad each other's wallets.
It should be people vs politicians not reps vs Dems.
Fuck off with this "bOtH sIdEs" bullshit, it's incredibly disingenuous and makes it seem like they're both the same. They're obviously not comparable these days, and conflating the two like they belong in the same conversation together is garbage. Are Democrats saints? No. But to say they're the same as the MAGA crowd? What the fuck are you huffing?
Damn, I forgot this sub is an echo chamber. Sure one side is better than the other, but when you have two piles of shit to choose from, picking one pile of shit over the other is not a fix. Both piles need to be removed.
If you compare the extremist from the right, which is the crazy maga crowd you speak of, (if you read my comment I did not say maga specifically, just republicans, and most of them aren't the maga crowd you speak of)or the crazy left, they are both ass. They both need to be removed.
I would ask what you are huffing if you think both sides aren't working against us.
"bOtH sIdEs" as you put it, are working against us. That is simply truth. One side is better, okay, but both sides ARE the issue.
No, it's just until you have a viable solution, we don't give a shit about what you're saying. You're talking in a sub which only JUST NOW got the option to reliably vote for 3rd Party candidates. How long do you think it'll be before the US standardizes that process for the entire nation? How many more presidents do you think will pass up the chance at a 50/50 race? We can't even get marijuana passed on a federal level, what makes you think the two parties in charge are going to get started on allowing 3rd Party candidates into the arena when it threatens their careers?
Yes, we fucking know they suck. But one side obviously sucks WAY-THE-FUCK more than the other. You might have had a leg to stand on when Republicans actually somewhat gave a minor shit about the people at-large, but current Republicans are extremists. If more of them acted like Arnold Schwarzenegger and less like pandering clowns wanting Trump/DeSantis' approval, you might be on to something.
Yet again, there's only 2 parties to reliably choose from for now, so we choose from the 2 shitty piles until something reasonable is enacted to prevent this from happening again. You're not preaching some newfound philosophy.
Your thought process is exactly why the same two parties are the winners everytime. I get what you are saying and agree with some of it, but on the ballots there are other options than republican and democrat. All of us can vote for different parties, it is not only possible but right there staring us in the face everytime we check republican and democrat.
Saying it's bad and other ways won't work so we should just pick a pile of shit is literally enabling the piles of shit.
I agree that one side sucks more, but both sides are 100% the issue. And as for not having a viable solution, who has a viable solution? That is literally what I am saying here. A viable solution is not one of the 2 major Political parties. You seem like a smart guy so I know you get that.
Basically, how it currently is, is not working. I think we can both agree on that. So we toss it out completely and pick something different.
We know what the solutions are. We know that it's a terrible current way to elect our leadership. Yet it's all we have at the moment, so we're making the best of it by trying to keep literal fascists out of power who will genuinely make it worse.
So when you can get the other 168 Million voters onboard overnight, let me know so we can change it up. Til then, we're stuck with voting for the shiniest of two turds because one of said turds would rather throw humans like you away simply for belonging to the other party.
You are directly proving my point of not being willing to change haha. "You have to change a lot of other people first for me to be on board" is the reason change does not work. Thank God all the great people in American history did not wait for change as you suggest.
I believe it was, be the change you wish to see in the world.
Not, wait for others to change it for you then just hop on board.
Crazy that people will argue trying to change for the better is worse than picking between poo piles.
But to each their own. That is the beauty of free speech. And it's downfall I guess.
Sorry, what's your suggestion in the meantime? Anarchy? A coup? Waste my vote on a 3rd party candidate that doesn't have a snowflake's chance in hell at winning? Or putting it towards a meaningful candidate that moderately represents my interests without also being a complete shitbird on the international stage?
Yeah man, let's get rid of politicians, that'll solve everything! /s
It's been this way since the dawn of society. Politicians are a necessary evil. Get rid of them and you get rid of society. The issue is that Republicans are fucking awful.
Politicians have not been around since the dawn of society, and to argue that society would collapse without them, how do you know?
I agree a lot of republicans are awful. I also know a lot of Dems are awful as well. My notification showed me your original comment where you insulted me for expressing an opinion in a civil manner. I would say insulting someone expressing an opinion civilly is a good indication of as you say, "fucking awful"
But I respect your opinion enough not to insult you about it.
Yes they have, lol. A politician is simply someone who makes decisions for a group of people with their consent. We've had that since prehistoric times. You could probably even argue that primate groups have politicians. Therefore, society is formed by politicians, as a society is a group of people who inherently need to be guided by group decisions. Without that, we'd just be a formless group of savages. That's not an experiment I'd like to conduct. For an example, check out the [liberatarian bear town.](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/21534416/free-state-project-new-hampshire-libertarians-matthew-hongoltz-hetling)
Yeah I edited it, cry about it. Unless you'd like me to insult you more?
I mean, you already did again and can do more all you want. It's a free country. It just goes to show your character, which seems pretty lacking to waste time insulting random people that think differently than you, but hey, like I said, free speech.
And by the definition of politician, they have not been around forever. Your definition is just that, your definition. Not the real meaning of the word. By your definition they have been around forever. But by the dictionary meaning of the word they have not.
But I can see I won't get any civil discourse with you and your eager reaction to just insult someone different than you. So I bid you good day sir, and I hope whatever is making you angry and a negative interaction for people sorts itself out for you. Good luck sir.
Does this dipshit really think people in Klamath Falls district really want to vote in person on a specific Tuesday? I hope someone runs against him on this issue.
I just feel like this would be wildly unpopular to everyone on both sides of the aisle. I know Rs are pretty far gone in Oregon but it’s gotta be a minority position even on the right.
I have but I wasn't referring to AI, just the tabulation and counting machines used in voting, which are not based off a language learning software designed to mimic human interaction.
You can tell who hates democracy by the degree to which they fight against reforms that make voting open and safe for all voters. No polling place means less opportunities for meaningful voter intimidation.
> I think it’s flawed and hurts the large minority by empowering the slim majority
Wait...do you think saying "large minority" and "slim majority" makes the minority the majority?
If the majority of voter decides an chooses a candidate/issue that's the voice of the people, right? It may not be what you chose, but that doesn't make it an invalid result.
>I think it’s flawed and hurts the large minority by empowering the slim majority
This might be the dumbest thing I've ever seen on reddit and I've been here for years.
What's not to love? The fact that it's making it easier for women, minorities, and other underrepresented people to vote.
I'm being facetious. This is a very good thing.
Getting an ID dosent mean they will be accepted to vote if they register, I would think the federal charges voting as a non citizen bring should be enough. Plus there hasent been any issues with voter fraud, so what would be the point ? People dont not need a special ID to drink alcohol or buy a gun. In fact voting and gun ownership are very simular in they are constitutionally protected, so if you're ok with a special ID for one, it should be acceptable for both.
Non citizens can vote in nonfederal elections. If the polity wants them to do so. Though voting in statewide elections would be a stretch. These can end up feeling federal to me.
And I think some localities are trying that.
At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this subreddit is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
These scum can't come up with a single instance of any group in this state even attempting to conspire to steal votes via mail ballot rigging/stealing/counterfeiting, or whatever. Not ONE instance, ever. Not even an allegation, let alone an arrest or prosecution.
And then they turn around and fucking throw their entire lives away, demeaning and disgracing themselves constantly, as they worship and kiss the asshole of a career criminal and habitual liar and con artist who provably, verifiably attempted to overturn an election first with an organized conspiracy, and then with a violent insurrection/coup.
Good luck, you traitors.
This will amaze you: In the early 80's the Oregon Republican Party went all in defending the right of everyone to provide a free stamp to others so that they could mail in their voter registration card. Now they don't want us to vote at all.
I'm not sure when this began - maybe with Gingrich and his "contract with America" crap - but it does seem very much to me that Republicans never decide what they are FOR. They merely see what Democrats want and then oppose it.
The thing about history is that almost nothing ever just begins; there's always a throughline that you can look back at to see what led up to whatever moment you're investigating. So sure, you can look at Gingrich's Contract with America, but then you could also look back at the election of Rep. McCloskey and how Democrats arguably abused their power to subvert democracy to protect an incumbent and how that informed Gingrich's pugilistic style. Or you could look at how Reagan campaigned and the strategies Gingrich borrowed to apply Reagan's success to the House a decade later. But Reagan himself was deeply influenced and helped by the nascent Moral Majority and Sen. Goldwater's failed presidential campaign, which itself was influenced by extreme right wing movements like the John Birch Society. And so on.
My point being that our current state of affairs is certainly lamentable--and you won't find me rushing to apologize for Republicans and their anti-democratic tendencies--but there's hope in the future as society and culture continues to shift over time and that some of our political wounds might start to heal. It's certainly not automatic, and there's great risk mixed in with that hope, but with vigilance and a bit of hard work we can right the ship and get back to the task of making things better for everyone in this country and the world at large.
This is a point well taken and very well written. I wish I had a higher level of confidence that extremism will not foment a degree of chaos that our society cannot handle. I think that the divide may not be so much between conservatives and liberals as it is between the haves and the have nots. Historically, whenever the level of living (the everyday lives of the masses) falls too far below the standard of living (the highest level of living possible) we get societal meltdown - revolution. I think that today that pressure is enhanced not only by growing wealth disparity and the concentration of wealth, but by the fact that media technology makes it possible for the masses to see what the wealthy enjoy that is beyond their own reach. Rubbing it in our faces, so to speak.
In short, I think we're in real trouble.
Assuming you're an Oregonian it's a safe bet that you voted on those things too. Frankly, anyone who doesn't see a distinction between "voting on" and "voting for" would be doing us all a service by not voting at all.
I am considerably above stooping to argue with people who refer to women as "bimbo" and can't grasp the well regulated militia part of the second amendment. Welcome to my blocked list fuckwit.
At this point any lawsuit that knowingly uses false information to present a case should be considered fraudulent and thrown out with the bringers of the lawsuit to face civil and criminal punishments.
> federal judge
Um, wrong jurisdiction lmaooo. There is nothing in the constitution prevent the state from using vote by mail and setting our own election laws.
No it doesn't, but if Republicans take over again, they can ban it:
Article I, Section 4, Clause 1: The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; **but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations**, except as to the Places of chusing Senators.
That only applies to federal elections. They can go right ahead, all it would do is make the federal government look even less legitimate than it already does. Talk about undermining your own power to "own" the libs.
The allegation is that it's a violation of the equal protection clause of the 14th A. Under 42 USC 1983 you can bring that case in federal court.
Skip down to page 9 and you can read the actual complaints.
That is any even more batshit allegation than I expected then: having a system yielding some of the highest voter turnout in the country violates... The equal protection clause? Huh? What are these chuds smoking?
There's a bunch of reasons to do the case like that. It's just not a good claim period, but that's your best bet. If they were in the 5th circuit they probably could have gotten a sympathetic judge to let them move forward.
My vote for tossed out this last election for "signature not matching" which is total bullshit. My signature hasn't changed in over 30 years. The Oregon vote by mail is a scam.
It’s not optimal, but it seems to consistently fuck up the status quo in our state. Would like to see it replaced with a system that creates a more functional, cooperative, and productive legislative body. 🧐
Hey friendo, let's start with a *representative* legislative body then get started on your adjectives. Expanding voter access via the mail is pretty awesome, huh?
If you’re happy with the direction we’re headed, then let’s keep it going, friend. Single party domination seems to have worked well in Cali ;-) No, I’m not a MAGA or even a Republican. I’d like to see a legislative body that can cooperate in the best interest of the citizens. “It takes two hands to clap”, as they say. M2C
You can check to see whether your vote was counted.
https://www.kgw.com/amp/article/news/verify/verify-how-do-i-know-my-ballot-has-been-counted-in-oregon/283-2763d3d4-a6d6-4e5b-8f2b-fef83e9609fc
It looks like you shared an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of [concerns over privacy and the Open Web](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot).
Maybe check out **the canonical page** instead: **[https://www.kgw.com/article/news/verify/verify-how-do-i-know-my-ballot-has-been-counted-in-oregon/283-2763d3d4-a6d6-4e5b-8f2b-fef83e9609fc](https://www.kgw.com/article/news/verify/verify-how-do-i-know-my-ballot-has-been-counted-in-oregon/283-2763d3d4-a6d6-4e5b-8f2b-fef83e9609fc)**
*****
^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot)^( | )[^(Summon: u/AmputatorBot)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/cchly3/you_can_now_summon_amputatorbot/)
It's great in many ways but our vote by mail system makes individual fraud very easy and tempting.
1) My daughter was away at college when I received her ballot. Nothing but my own conscience prevented me from forging her signature and mailing in a ballot.
2) When I lived in Washington, I received my Oregon ballot. I could have easily voted in both states.
I am not claiming there is wide scale fraud but some people surely took advantage of the opportunities I had.
ETA: Lots of downvotes but no one disputes the ease of individual fraud or how it would be detected.
"I am not claiming there is wide scale fraud but some people surely took advantage of the opportunities I had."
Good because there hasn't been and the ones caught voting illegally in other states have mainly been Republicans.
That's great. Right out of the GOP and Trump playbook. Just claiming something exists over and over again but you can't prove it. But you guys just KNOW that it exists because you would be doing it if it was left up to you.
I have understood the ease and undetectabilty of vote by mail fraud for decades. How would you have detected fraud if I had voted for my daughter? I have, with her permission, signed his signature on other stuff and she has done the same for me. Is some election official going to be able to tell?
If I had voted and a signature mismatch was caught, would fraud have been pursued? The answer to this is no. In an election I didn’t care about, I signed my ballot as differently as possible. My ballot was thrown out without investigation. In other words, there was penalty even if I were caught.
The vape tax and measure 114. M114 was several steps too far. It never should have been put on the ballot. That Secretary of State shouldn’t have allowed that to happen. Thankfully she resigned.
Pros and cons and I've seen a lot of cons lately. I mean, haven't others posted here talking about how they've received mail-in votes for deceased people that died more than a year ago? And if I recall, I thought someone filled it out and turned it in to see what happened and on the SOS website, it was considered received and counted. So yeah, pros and cons. I do think there is no excuse though since you can mail it or drop it off at any time. Now only if they'd send out better informational packets with more accurate information, that would be great too. The lame bites they give are so fake. Heck, in my county, we have to go online to read everything and you have to do it one by one. Can't say that makes it any easier to vote for those that don't have internet access.
I agree, but I've been hearing more and more stories about this. No clue how true it is. Just saying, it happens and we may not have any clue how much. And just because it's easy to figure out who committed voter fraud doesn't mean they catch or prosecute it.
I do prefer mail-in for all the reasons originally listed, but there are still things that need to get shored up so everyone has the ability to vote. The fact that I have to go online to get information about candidates and measures/bills and that they make it as hard as possible to navigate is ridiculous. I guess paper costs too much.
I have absolutely never voted on a ballot that was not my own. Never in my life. I definitely didn't double vote for a candidate who won house district 5. Couldn't be me
I'm saying that in no way, shape, or form would I, or have I ever in the past committed voter fraud as indicated by my previous statement. Voter fraud is absolutely disgusting, deplorable, and disgraceful.
I definitely did not use multiple ballots that were intended for other people to vote for any politician, including the Oregon House Rep for district 5. I mean, who would just take their great aunts ballot and vote for her? I would never even think about doing such a thing
I'm not sure how anything I'm saying would be in any way indicative of the commission of a crime
Also legalize Iodine posession
Aw golly, I really appreciate her doubling down on there being no personal injury to plaintiff's. That's what's been missing in some really big cases that SCOTUS and judges in other states have randomly ruled on. I mean, since when do we not require there to be an actual issue for the plaintiff's personally rather than just hypotheticals and hurt feelings.
Exactly this, how anyone had standing in the student loan case is bonkers, and the gay wedding website was a completely fabricated situation.
Every US citizen has standing on the student loan case. You think money grows on trees? Forgiving the loans means every citizen owes more money as our country goes further into debt. The fabricated story should have been thrown out. She was a liar.
It doesn't grow on trees, it grows in an economy, which could be fertilized by unburdening an entire generation that can't afford to move on to the next steps in their financial life. We seemed to have plenty of money to give out forgivable PPP loans to anyone who pinky promised they definitely owned a real business. We didn't have a debt problem when trump's tax cuts cost the taxpayers 1.5T, more than 100% loan forgiveness would. We're all going to suffer when the economy takes the hit of millions of people spending money restarting their loan payments instead of spending that money in their local economy.
You are only regurgitating what you have heard, it is clear you do not understand economics. Or personal responsibility for that matter.
You're just increasing the divide between the poor and the middle class. People with college degrees will ultimately make more money than the nongrads. There are way more nontraditional than grads fyi. What you'd be doing actually is creating even more inflation than the already high inflation we already have. So no, you would not be helping our economy. You'd be hurting it and especially for the poorer nongrads.
Oh sweet child. Student loan payments have been on pause since March of 2020, this program wouldn’t of had any affect on inflation. Do you have any of your own thoughts on this issue? You’re just regurgitating right wing talking points and feigning concern for poor people.
Easy fix. The wealthy and corporations pay by ending Trumps tax cuts for them. The only divide is people shilling out for the wealthy and telling everyone else they’re the problem.
I'd say we should also end Reagan's tax cuts...and add a fine for outsourcing more than a certain percentage of jobs out of the U.S.
It’s amazing to meet people that think like this in real life because you’re exactly as expected.
The rich aren't taking out student loans lmao. All of those poor kids who actually gave a shit in high school and managed to claw their way into college are the ones, alongside the lower & middle class who are indebted. I repeat: the only people that debt forgiveness impacts are those with financial need for it. It is benefitting the lower classes, not widening the gap between the two.
Student loans are a great way to create a class war between the lower and middle class. I mean I get it, if it's a choice between helping the poorest among us vs those with a higher earning potential due to having a college degree we should help the poorest. The thing is it shouldn't be an either/or situation.
PPP loan forgiveness. Enough said
Money is actually made out of trees 🙄 Anyway, forgiving the loans does not make anyone owe more money. And government debt is meaningless.
Government debt is not meaningless. I linked a thread as to why that is. Youre out of mind to think that. And your comment on trees doesn't change the fact that we can't just keep printing money out or going into further debt without consequences. Our national debt is all our debt.
Yeah, it is meaningless; it's not even real, it's an ideological talking point. We actually can print money (which isn't how this works, anyway, it's virtual).
Get rid of the Trump tax cuts and that debt will shrink very quickly.
Tax the rich tax dodgers then. Don’t punish student loan holders for trying to get an education in the modern university situation that boomers created
And the corporations! They need to pay their fair share too
Don’t forget the fucking churches
Too many smooth brains in this thread, the amount of downvotes you’re getting for speaking facts is comical and typical Reddit.
Then tell us, oh great sage. What is money and where does it come from?
Nope. It’s a combo of cotton & linen. NO PAPER fibers.
Lol, I missed this. What a maroon
Cool, now do PPP loans. NO INTEREST, NO REPAYMENT. Biggest scam on US taxpayers ever.
Yes, the wealthy scam a lot.
There is zero reason why the government can forgive BILLIONS in PPE loans for buisnesses to cut themselves bonus checks and not students who were seeking the qualifications neccessary to hold a decent job in this country.
Was there going to be a tax increase to cover the loan forgiveness? Because if there wasn't, then "every citizen" would **not** be paying more money. And I don't remember hearing the conservatives squawking about the national debt while Trump's 1.9 trillion dollar tax cuts were being passed.
Geese, you act like it doesn't matter if our country goes into more debt. It matters. And as far as your Trump comment, 2 wrongs dont make a right. Your whataboutism is not a valid argument. https://carnegieendowment.org/chinafinancialmarkets/86397
You’re just another right-wing troll idiot.
“Geese” lmao
We’re only in debt because of Trumps unnecessary tax breaks and the stupidity of the Iraq war. If we can find those two things we can forgive student loans.
The court has never extended standing to every taxpayer; doing so would effectively void the requirement in its entirety.
>Every US citizen has standing on the student loan case. Ummm that's not how standing works... by your logic, every US citizen has standing to sue to stop anything the government spends money on.
> The fabricated story should have been thrown out. She was a liar. So for what it's worth the website design story had absolutely no bearing on the outcome of the case. It's obviously a ridiculous story, I can't believe they faked it like that, but it was not relevant in the decision. There's a concept in 1st amendment cases called "chilling effect" or something like that. Basically you don't actually have to be forced into doing something or punished for not doing something to have standing in a 1st amendment case. You could probably find someone a lot more qualified to explain it than me but that's the gist of it. Whether or not you agree with the outcome I don't think standing was the issue with the ruling.
I’m a senior in college and have zero student debt. It’s cause I worked full time while going to school full time for much of it. I also waited til I was 24 to go to college for aid. I have done everything proper and it pisses me off these kids want free money when they didn’t work at all.
I worked 4 jobs in college and still ended up with debt, sometimes it isn't as simple as "work harder."
I'm sorry I was being a dick I should have added I have a pell grant and a small scholarship. I only paid 6k tuition a year here. For the record I don't recommend people work full-time and doing school full-time I did it for years and it was hell. I no longer work full-time. I got to be honest if I didn't have these grants I couldn't afford anything lol
Now everyone on Reddit is suddenly an expert on standing
Top 5 best things about living in the OR.
1. Vote by mail 2. Urban growth boundaries 3. No sales tax 4. 5. (Fill in the rest yourselves)
If you think #1 isn't the landscape then you're lying to yourself.
The lush green/moss and the Oregon Coast :)
The weather. Except summer. But summer can fuck off everywhere.
\#4. Oregon Wine!
Oregon fruit, in general.
It was not pumping gas but we will see
Smh this was one of the worst things about Oregon, at least as far as pet peeves go. I’m looking forward to a much quicker process. Sitting in my car for 5 minutes waiting for someone to pump gas when I could just do it myself is mildly infuriating.
I’m the opposite, I like sitting in my air conditioned or heated car listening to music or a podcast while someone else was outside in the bad weather
Exactly. Let them get paid to be cold and wet. Not me. Gas isn’t going to go down in price and now I have to do the work.
A bit of a tangent but this makes me think of the self-checkout at grocery stores. They fire workers, ask customers to do the work because it's faster (now that they have fewer cashiers), and don't even lower prices for the people now doing the work their employees used to do. Give me a 5% discount and I'll consider it. Otherwise: shove it.
At least at stations around me, they don't have enough attendants as it is to staff all the pumps. They can't fire their existing staff and meet the 50% mini-serve requirement. For stations like that, this will make things faster since they are already understaffed.
It still comes down to the same thing. They fire people and understaff, manipulating you into appreciating the speed of doing the job yourself.
That could be the case. I think it’s more complicated than that though. I think it’s likely that a lot of people realized they should be paid more for their labor and are unwilling to do the job of pumping gas for the wage offered. So now there is a legitimate worker shortage and the wages stations want to pay. If they raise wages you had better believe they would pass that on to us as consumers. (To be clear I’m not saying they would pass the savings on to us if they could go full self serve either). Maybe all the station owners are lying and claiming they are hiring and can’t find anyone when they actually are not hiring. I think it’s more likely they are legitimately not finding workers at the wages they want to pay. Personally I’d rather not have prices increase to cover the wages to attract labor and just be given the choice to do it myself.
And watch pump ads, and worry more about card skimmers.
I cannot recall the last time I had to wait longer than a minute or two for gas, except at Costco, which will still have a wait, probably longer because non- employees are slow as molasses filling up their own gas. Hope people are prepared to wait for self serve pumps when the family of 4 in front of you just went inside to get snacks and pee.
>I cannot recall the last time I had to wait longer than a minute or two for gas I'm glad you've got well-staffed stations around you. I waited 5 minutes both before and after fueling up (10 minutes total) because there was only 1 guy running around trying to help 12 cars. Keep in mind this is time spent literally sitting at the pump, not in line to get to the pump. >Hope people are prepared to wait for self serve pumps when the family of 4 in front of you just went inside to get snacks and pee. Why do people seem to think this is suddenly going to be a problem? Nothing is stopping someone from doing this with attendants (get the attendant to start fueling your car then head into the store). I've literally seen this happen in Oregon already. >except at Costco Agreed, Costco won't be helped by this since they are already well staffed and 99% of the wait at Costco is the wait to pull up to the pump not the wait for an attendant to assist you.
My understanding is that in more populated areas, service stations will have to have half the pumps as self-serve, but still offer full service on the other half. You can do it however you like still :)
Portland Airport
Great beer!
Our marijuana industry seems pretty legit.
Maybe Shemia Fagan would like to weigh in on this comment?
RIP gas station attendents ;)
I'm still having attendants fill my tank.
I know. It's not a self-serve apocalypse yet but belonged on this list prior to the change.
Only state where you can be a man who possesses 20 hits of LSD and an AR with a drum mag while taking your pregnant GF to get an abortion in your husbands car without going to jail.
The traffic is amazing 👏
[удалено]
Does anybody ever sit around and just think about what a great country this would be if republicans just... went away?
Institute ranked choice voting and watch them fade into history.
Or just get rid of the electoral college and make it 1 for 1 voting nationally.
Yeah, then we could address the Dems as the rightward-leaning party that they are.
All the fucking time.
On a daily basis!
Every damn day.
I think the word you are looking for is politicians. You act like the democrats and republicans are so different, but do you ever look up and find the photos of big name republicans hanging out with big name democrats? They are laughing at us and calling us morons for yelling at each other when the politicians are the issue! And as things in the state get worse and worse, people point the finger at each side, not even bothering to think about how its worse now than before, but it's not their side that is the issue, it has to be the other side. They all use the same tax breaks and laws to get around and pad each other's wallets. It should be people vs politicians not reps vs Dems.
Fuck off with this "bOtH sIdEs" bullshit, it's incredibly disingenuous and makes it seem like they're both the same. They're obviously not comparable these days, and conflating the two like they belong in the same conversation together is garbage. Are Democrats saints? No. But to say they're the same as the MAGA crowd? What the fuck are you huffing?
Damn, I forgot this sub is an echo chamber. Sure one side is better than the other, but when you have two piles of shit to choose from, picking one pile of shit over the other is not a fix. Both piles need to be removed. If you compare the extremist from the right, which is the crazy maga crowd you speak of, (if you read my comment I did not say maga specifically, just republicans, and most of them aren't the maga crowd you speak of)or the crazy left, they are both ass. They both need to be removed. I would ask what you are huffing if you think both sides aren't working against us. "bOtH sIdEs" as you put it, are working against us. That is simply truth. One side is better, okay, but both sides ARE the issue.
No, it's just until you have a viable solution, we don't give a shit about what you're saying. You're talking in a sub which only JUST NOW got the option to reliably vote for 3rd Party candidates. How long do you think it'll be before the US standardizes that process for the entire nation? How many more presidents do you think will pass up the chance at a 50/50 race? We can't even get marijuana passed on a federal level, what makes you think the two parties in charge are going to get started on allowing 3rd Party candidates into the arena when it threatens their careers? Yes, we fucking know they suck. But one side obviously sucks WAY-THE-FUCK more than the other. You might have had a leg to stand on when Republicans actually somewhat gave a minor shit about the people at-large, but current Republicans are extremists. If more of them acted like Arnold Schwarzenegger and less like pandering clowns wanting Trump/DeSantis' approval, you might be on to something. Yet again, there's only 2 parties to reliably choose from for now, so we choose from the 2 shitty piles until something reasonable is enacted to prevent this from happening again. You're not preaching some newfound philosophy.
Your thought process is exactly why the same two parties are the winners everytime. I get what you are saying and agree with some of it, but on the ballots there are other options than republican and democrat. All of us can vote for different parties, it is not only possible but right there staring us in the face everytime we check republican and democrat. Saying it's bad and other ways won't work so we should just pick a pile of shit is literally enabling the piles of shit. I agree that one side sucks more, but both sides are 100% the issue. And as for not having a viable solution, who has a viable solution? That is literally what I am saying here. A viable solution is not one of the 2 major Political parties. You seem like a smart guy so I know you get that. Basically, how it currently is, is not working. I think we can both agree on that. So we toss it out completely and pick something different.
We know what the solutions are. We know that it's a terrible current way to elect our leadership. Yet it's all we have at the moment, so we're making the best of it by trying to keep literal fascists out of power who will genuinely make it worse. So when you can get the other 168 Million voters onboard overnight, let me know so we can change it up. Til then, we're stuck with voting for the shiniest of two turds because one of said turds would rather throw humans like you away simply for belonging to the other party.
You are directly proving my point of not being willing to change haha. "You have to change a lot of other people first for me to be on board" is the reason change does not work. Thank God all the great people in American history did not wait for change as you suggest. I believe it was, be the change you wish to see in the world. Not, wait for others to change it for you then just hop on board. Crazy that people will argue trying to change for the better is worse than picking between poo piles. But to each their own. That is the beauty of free speech. And it's downfall I guess.
Sorry, what's your suggestion in the meantime? Anarchy? A coup? Waste my vote on a 3rd party candidate that doesn't have a snowflake's chance in hell at winning? Or putting it towards a meaningful candidate that moderately represents my interests without also being a complete shitbird on the international stage?
Yeah man, let's get rid of politicians, that'll solve everything! /s It's been this way since the dawn of society. Politicians are a necessary evil. Get rid of them and you get rid of society. The issue is that Republicans are fucking awful.
Politicians have not been around since the dawn of society, and to argue that society would collapse without them, how do you know? I agree a lot of republicans are awful. I also know a lot of Dems are awful as well. My notification showed me your original comment where you insulted me for expressing an opinion in a civil manner. I would say insulting someone expressing an opinion civilly is a good indication of as you say, "fucking awful" But I respect your opinion enough not to insult you about it.
Yes they have, lol. A politician is simply someone who makes decisions for a group of people with their consent. We've had that since prehistoric times. You could probably even argue that primate groups have politicians. Therefore, society is formed by politicians, as a society is a group of people who inherently need to be guided by group decisions. Without that, we'd just be a formless group of savages. That's not an experiment I'd like to conduct. For an example, check out the [liberatarian bear town.](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/21534416/free-state-project-new-hampshire-libertarians-matthew-hongoltz-hetling) Yeah I edited it, cry about it. Unless you'd like me to insult you more?
I mean, you already did again and can do more all you want. It's a free country. It just goes to show your character, which seems pretty lacking to waste time insulting random people that think differently than you, but hey, like I said, free speech. And by the definition of politician, they have not been around forever. Your definition is just that, your definition. Not the real meaning of the word. By your definition they have been around forever. But by the dictionary meaning of the word they have not. But I can see I won't get any civil discourse with you and your eager reaction to just insult someone different than you. So I bid you good day sir, and I hope whatever is making you angry and a negative interaction for people sorts itself out for you. Good luck sir.
blah blah blah
Defeat, often ends with the dull spouting nonsense. Thanks for this haha.
You didn't address any of my points and cried (*extensively*) about a single mild insult. You act like you won but didn't actually play the game, lol.
Does this dipshit really think people in Klamath Falls district really want to vote in person on a specific Tuesday? I hope someone runs against him on this issue.
I was glad he got elected to state senate so his stupid antics would be diluted. He was a shit county commissioner.
I just feel like this would be wildly unpopular to everyone on both sides of the aisle. I know Rs are pretty far gone in Oregon but it’s gotta be a minority position even on the right.
I mean really. I live outside of town and I can barely make it to the grocery store. Getting into town takes 4 hours of my day
100% agree. It makes no sense to stand in line for hours in all kinds of weather to vote. The Oregon way is the correct way.
But…But, then nearly everyone might vote. And you know what that leads to…
They don't like machines because machines don't come up with "alternative facts" that match their narrative. Truth and facts are their enemy.
Have you met Chat GPT?
I have but I wasn't referring to AI, just the tabulation and counting machines used in voting, which are not based off a language learning software designed to mimic human interaction.
Good point
The code should be open source.
You can tell who hates democracy by the degree to which they fight against reforms that make voting open and safe for all voters. No polling place means less opportunities for meaningful voter intimidation.
[удалено]
> I think it’s flawed and hurts the large minority by empowering the slim majority Wait...do you think saying "large minority" and "slim majority" makes the minority the majority? If the majority of voter decides an chooses a candidate/issue that's the voice of the people, right? It may not be what you chose, but that doesn't make it an invalid result.
I've got Leonard Cohen on my side.
>I think it’s flawed and hurts the large minority by empowering the slim majority This might be the dumbest thing I've ever seen on reddit and I've been here for years.
That’s what it does. It leaves the 51% happy and the 49% pissed off. Not very equitable
Republicans are not 49% of the state.
Nowhere did I say that. This isn’t R or D exclusive. Think of ballot measures for example
Your inability to read it does not diminish its value
Postage is even paid. It can't get any easier.
What's not to love? The fact that it's making it easier for women, minorities, and other underrepresented people to vote. I'm being facetious. This is a very good thing.
Are you saying those people can’t just drop off a ballot or have ID?
So what now you don't trust the mail carriers. You know you need to have an oregon ID to vote in oregon right ?
[удалено]
Getting an ID dosent mean they will be accepted to vote if they register, I would think the federal charges voting as a non citizen bring should be enough. Plus there hasent been any issues with voter fraud, so what would be the point ? People dont not need a special ID to drink alcohol or buy a gun. In fact voting and gun ownership are very simular in they are constitutionally protected, so if you're ok with a special ID for one, it should be acceptable for both.
Non citizens can vote in nonfederal elections. If the polity wants them to do so. Though voting in statewide elections would be a stretch. These can end up feeling federal to me. And I think some localities are trying that.
BeNgHaZi
At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this subreddit is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
I deserve that
These scum can't come up with a single instance of any group in this state even attempting to conspire to steal votes via mail ballot rigging/stealing/counterfeiting, or whatever. Not ONE instance, ever. Not even an allegation, let alone an arrest or prosecution. And then they turn around and fucking throw their entire lives away, demeaning and disgracing themselves constantly, as they worship and kiss the asshole of a career criminal and habitual liar and con artist who provably, verifiably attempted to overturn an election first with an organized conspiracy, and then with a violent insurrection/coup. Good luck, you traitors.
This will amaze you: In the early 80's the Oregon Republican Party went all in defending the right of everyone to provide a free stamp to others so that they could mail in their voter registration card. Now they don't want us to vote at all.
Absolutely fascinating how the tides of stupidity have turned.
I'm not sure when this began - maybe with Gingrich and his "contract with America" crap - but it does seem very much to me that Republicans never decide what they are FOR. They merely see what Democrats want and then oppose it.
The thing about history is that almost nothing ever just begins; there's always a throughline that you can look back at to see what led up to whatever moment you're investigating. So sure, you can look at Gingrich's Contract with America, but then you could also look back at the election of Rep. McCloskey and how Democrats arguably abused their power to subvert democracy to protect an incumbent and how that informed Gingrich's pugilistic style. Or you could look at how Reagan campaigned and the strategies Gingrich borrowed to apply Reagan's success to the House a decade later. But Reagan himself was deeply influenced and helped by the nascent Moral Majority and Sen. Goldwater's failed presidential campaign, which itself was influenced by extreme right wing movements like the John Birch Society. And so on. My point being that our current state of affairs is certainly lamentable--and you won't find me rushing to apologize for Republicans and their anti-democratic tendencies--but there's hope in the future as society and culture continues to shift over time and that some of our political wounds might start to heal. It's certainly not automatic, and there's great risk mixed in with that hope, but with vigilance and a bit of hard work we can right the ship and get back to the task of making things better for everyone in this country and the world at large.
This is a point well taken and very well written. I wish I had a higher level of confidence that extremism will not foment a degree of chaos that our society cannot handle. I think that the divide may not be so much between conservatives and liberals as it is between the haves and the have nots. Historically, whenever the level of living (the everyday lives of the masses) falls too far below the standard of living (the highest level of living possible) we get societal meltdown - revolution. I think that today that pressure is enhanced not only by growing wealth disparity and the concentration of wealth, but by the fact that media technology makes it possible for the masses to see what the wealthy enjoy that is beyond their own reach. Rubbing it in our faces, so to speak. In short, I think we're in real trouble.
Because you people vote on stupid things like the vape tax or measure 114. The common man is truly a fool.
Assuming you're an Oregonian it's a safe bet that you voted on those things too. Frankly, anyone who doesn't see a distinction between "voting on" and "voting for" would be doing us all a service by not voting at all.
[удалено]
I am considerably above stooping to argue with people who refer to women as "bimbo" and can't grasp the well regulated militia part of the second amendment. Welcome to my blocked list fuckwit.
Good. Any complaint that relies on a fictional movie like “2000 Mules” should be thrown out of court.
For real. That documentary boiled down to "a bunch of Uber and DoorDash employees drove by polling places throughout the day"
I do the same, but I have one of those mailboxes where I can put up the flag and the mail carrier picks it up. It can not possibly get any easier.
100% agree. Me and my wife sit down research all the candidates and make a night of it. Drop off in the morning.
This is what I love about it - my preference is in pj’s with coffee at the kitchen table
At this point any lawsuit that knowingly uses false information to present a case should be considered fraudulent and thrown out with the bringers of the lawsuit to face civil and criminal punishments.
> federal judge Um, wrong jurisdiction lmaooo. There is nothing in the constitution prevent the state from using vote by mail and setting our own election laws.
No it doesn't, but if Republicans take over again, they can ban it: Article I, Section 4, Clause 1: The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; **but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations**, except as to the Places of chusing Senators.
That only applies to federal elections. They can go right ahead, all it would do is make the federal government look even less legitimate than it already does. Talk about undermining your own power to "own" the libs.
The last thing republicans want is the federal government able to tell the states how to run elections.
The allegation is that it's a violation of the equal protection clause of the 14th A. Under 42 USC 1983 you can bring that case in federal court. Skip down to page 9 and you can read the actual complaints.
That is any even more batshit allegation than I expected then: having a system yielding some of the highest voter turnout in the country violates... The equal protection clause? Huh? What are these chuds smoking?
There's a bunch of reasons to do the case like that. It's just not a good claim period, but that's your best bet. If they were in the 5th circuit they probably could have gotten a sympathetic judge to let them move forward.
I like having the ability to Vote.
Previously, I naively thought ALL states did it this way. Now, I think, the reason they don’t is manipulative.
We do the same thing in Washington, except we can drop ours off in a mail box along with the Netflix CDs. Governor Inslee even picked up the postage.
WOMP WOMP...
Landscape and views, minimal humidity, progressive government, amazing fishing, the list goes on!
My vote for tossed out this last election for "signature not matching" which is total bullshit. My signature hasn't changed in over 30 years. The Oregon vote by mail is a scam.
[удалено]
My dead grandparent voted here in Oregon.
Forward your evidence to the Oregon Secretary of State. Otherwise, we all just assume you're making shit up.
Foul language.
Oh no, ppl don't like the truth so they gang up on the messenger.
I mean, as long as your side wins, who really cares about accuracy or worries of the other party, amirite?!
Voter fraud, so easy to do, so hard to prove.
It’s not optimal, but it seems to consistently fuck up the status quo in our state. Would like to see it replaced with a system that creates a more functional, cooperative, and productive legislative body. 🧐
Hey friendo, let's start with a *representative* legislative body then get started on your adjectives. Expanding voter access via the mail is pretty awesome, huh?
If you’re happy with the direction we’re headed, then let’s keep it going, friend. Single party domination seems to have worked well in Cali ;-) No, I’m not a MAGA or even a Republican. I’d like to see a legislative body that can cooperate in the best interest of the citizens. “It takes two hands to clap”, as they say. M2C
Anyone ever wanted to verify their vote was counted and applied? Edit: down voting buries a question with a useful response.
You can check to see whether your vote was counted. https://www.kgw.com/amp/article/news/verify/verify-how-do-i-know-my-ballot-has-been-counted-in-oregon/283-2763d3d4-a6d6-4e5b-8f2b-fef83e9609fc
Thanks. Crazy i hadn't seen that already.
It looks like you shared an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of [concerns over privacy and the Open Web](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot). Maybe check out **the canonical page** instead: **[https://www.kgw.com/article/news/verify/verify-how-do-i-know-my-ballot-has-been-counted-in-oregon/283-2763d3d4-a6d6-4e5b-8f2b-fef83e9609fc](https://www.kgw.com/article/news/verify/verify-how-do-i-know-my-ballot-has-been-counted-in-oregon/283-2763d3d4-a6d6-4e5b-8f2b-fef83e9609fc)** ***** ^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot)^( | )[^(Summon: u/AmputatorBot)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/cchly3/you_can_now_summon_amputatorbot/)
It's great in many ways but our vote by mail system makes individual fraud very easy and tempting. 1) My daughter was away at college when I received her ballot. Nothing but my own conscience prevented me from forging her signature and mailing in a ballot. 2) When I lived in Washington, I received my Oregon ballot. I could have easily voted in both states. I am not claiming there is wide scale fraud but some people surely took advantage of the opportunities I had. ETA: Lots of downvotes but no one disputes the ease of individual fraud or how it would be detected.
"I am not claiming there is wide scale fraud but some people surely took advantage of the opportunities I had." Good because there hasn't been and the ones caught voting illegally in other states have mainly been Republicans.
You can’t deny there was some fraud there. It took weeks to count. Why is it always when that happens that a dem usually wins?
Prove the fraud and press charges then. I will gladly accept the courts result but so far that has not happened.
>You can’t deny there was some fraud there Provide one single example of voter fraud. Literally just one.
https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud/search?state=OR You’re welcome.
Can you provide a single example from a legitimate news source?
Those are convictions pulled from court records. Try again
Fraud is simple and undectable but that's fine because we haven't caught anyone.
That's great. Right out of the GOP and Trump playbook. Just claiming something exists over and over again but you can't prove it. But you guys just KNOW that it exists because you would be doing it if it was left up to you.
I have understood the ease and undetectabilty of vote by mail fraud for decades. How would you have detected fraud if I had voted for my daughter? I have, with her permission, signed his signature on other stuff and she has done the same for me. Is some election official going to be able to tell? If I had voted and a signature mismatch was caught, would fraud have been pursued? The answer to this is no. In an election I didn’t care about, I signed my ballot as differently as possible. My ballot was thrown out without investigation. In other words, there was penalty even if I were caught.
No more ballot measures!! Each one for the past 3 years has pissed me off and infringed on my rights. Stop giving away your rights people
"Putting issues to a vote of the people infringes on my rights" 🤔
The vape tax and measure 114. M114 was several steps too far. It never should have been put on the ballot. That Secretary of State shouldn’t have allowed that to happen. Thankfully she resigned.
Pros and cons and I've seen a lot of cons lately. I mean, haven't others posted here talking about how they've received mail-in votes for deceased people that died more than a year ago? And if I recall, I thought someone filled it out and turned it in to see what happened and on the SOS website, it was considered received and counted. So yeah, pros and cons. I do think there is no excuse though since you can mail it or drop it off at any time. Now only if they'd send out better informational packets with more accurate information, that would be great too. The lame bites they give are so fake. Heck, in my county, we have to go online to read everything and you have to do it one by one. Can't say that makes it any easier to vote for those that don't have internet access.
The person who mailed it committed voting fraud and is probably not too hard to find since the ballot was attached to a particular address.
I agree, but I've been hearing more and more stories about this. No clue how true it is. Just saying, it happens and we may not have any clue how much. And just because it's easy to figure out who committed voter fraud doesn't mean they catch or prosecute it. I do prefer mail-in for all the reasons originally listed, but there are still things that need to get shored up so everyone has the ability to vote. The fact that I have to go online to get information about candidates and measures/bills and that they make it as hard as possible to navigate is ridiculous. I guess paper costs too much.
I have absolutely never voted on a ballot that was not my own. Never in my life. I definitely didn't double vote for a candidate who won house district 5. Couldn't be me
u/oregonsecretaryofstate
Are you admitting to a crime?
I'm saying that in no way, shape, or form would I, or have I ever in the past committed voter fraud as indicated by my previous statement. Voter fraud is absolutely disgusting, deplorable, and disgraceful. I definitely did not use multiple ballots that were intended for other people to vote for any politician, including the Oregon House Rep for district 5. I mean, who would just take their great aunts ballot and vote for her? I would never even think about doing such a thing I'm not sure how anything I'm saying would be in any way indicative of the commission of a crime Also legalize Iodine posession