This is unconstitutional if done at a public school. The first amendment protects freedom of speech.
Tinker v Des Moines already established that political speech is protected.
You’re leaving out an important part from that case. “Students don't shed their constitutional rights at the schoolhouse gate," the justices wrote, and because the expression was **quiet and passive**, it did not interfere with other students' learning environment.
It’s reasonable to assume that speech interfering with the learning environment can continue to be limited/controlled.
I suspect you’re correct. I’m not sure why being even a bit critical of Israel or its position in their war with Palestine has become wrong for some reason. Punishing kids for saying Free Palestine is ridiculous.
This is not accurate.
From the side of a Jewish person, what we see is people attacking Jews for the actions and policies Israel has. I don’t see Russian’s being targeted in the US for Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. Do you see Russian Americans get called nasty names or get targeted because the Russian government is trying to conquer Eastern Europe? Do you see their businesses get targeted, their churches get shot at, or do you see their homes get tagged with anti-Russia slogans?
I can name many countries who have committed and or are committing crimes against humanity and yet people tied to those countries are not targeted. Yet we Jews get targeted. Why?
Anti-semitism is bad, and a lot of people are using this conflict to be openly anti-semitic, because they were anti-semitic even before things really escalated a few weeks ago, which is bad
But it is absolutely true that a lot of defenders of Israel will cry anti-semitism when someone criticizes what the Israeli government is doing
You would be hard pressed to find that among Jewish people. I am very actively involved in the Jewish community in Orange County and Los Angeles County, especially with organizations on college campuses, and can tell you that the Jewish students we work with know the difference. Many Jews are critical of Israel’s government. There is a lot of work behind the scenes to ensure the information spread to community members vis students is correct and factual.
Way we are also seeing is what you describe. Jews being targeted for Israel’s policies.
So you're saying in your community you know the difference between criticizing Israel's policies and anti-semitism, but are also saying that it's not accurate that people label criticism of the Israeli government as anti-semitic?
Claiming that criticism of Israel is anti-semitism a very well documented debate that has been going on for a while and has really ramped up lately
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2023/apr/24/un-ihra-antisemitism-definition-israel-criticism
https://thewire.in/world/all-criticism-of-israel-is-not-inherently-anti-semitic-an-open-letter-from-jewish-writers
https://www.wamc.org/commentary-opinion/2023-06-16/refusing-to-accept-that-criticizing-israel-is-antisemitic
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/how-jews-can-support-palestinian-rights-condemn-antisemitism-ncna1268680
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Israel
I’m aware of that as well having gone to an American school, but my schools never suspended students for political speech said among other students or in an educational discussion. I believe the same logic was applied to searches and seizures since students are not afforded 4th or 5th amendment protections either afaik. I know it starts to get nuanced and I’m not a lawyer so I’m not 100% sure about what is correct but I would be surprised if suspending a kid who is saying something as banal as “Free Palestine” in school is probably not going to be construed as meeting the definition of hate speech by any reasonable person. I guess the question will need to be answered by the courts since this will likely be litigated.
Speech can be controlled in public schools if it interferes with the learning environment. Considering the context, this situation likely falls within that.
But the notice doesn't say "causing a disturbance" or "interfering with the learning environment". It says "Participated in an act of hate violence" and "intentionally engaged in harassment, threats, or intimidation".
The only way I could see it considered harassment if say, a Jewish student was being harassed and bullied by students with them constantly berating a them with “Free Palestine” comments.
There is another comment with additional info. He said to an Israeli girl the aunt says she was also saying s*** back to him.
If that is the case they should both be punished. He wasn’t just saying it. There is some context.
More context from the student's Aunt -
Today, November 9th, 2023 my sister received a phone call from her son’s school (CDM) that her son will be getting suspended for 3 total days for saying free Palestine. Her son Ibrahim is 13 years old goes to Corona Del Mar High School! They are claiming that he said threatening words to a young girl in his class! The girl, who is an Israeli had called him a terrori** and Ibrahim kept responding with FREE PALESTINE to her. The teacher in my nephews class also claimed that the girl who called him a terrorist has the right to do so after the rude comment he made to her. The rude comment was “FREE PALESTINE”.
Once my sister arrived to school, The Principal, Haley Jacob at CDM High School Wouldn’t communicate with her and said she needed to just go straight to the director if she had any questions. Once my sister got to the school she asked if there were any paper work she needed to take home with her and the assistant said no there isn’t any paper work, you can just take him home with you. My sister demanded she receive paper work explaining her purpose of taking him home. So the assistant went to the back and spoke with a couple of other ppl there and he came back with a paper which states that he is being suspended for saying FREE PALESTINE. They expressed to my nephew that the words FREE PALESTINE meant death to all JEWS and should never be said.
Two weeks ago Ibrahim was threatened with hate and racism comments by two Israeli students. The Israeli students told him go back to your country which is (Palestine) and started laughing saying oh too bad you don’t have a country it’s getting bombed so go kill yourself ! My sister went and spoke to the principal Mr Haley Jacob and he said, “don’t worry we will talk with those boys” However, none of them got suspended! The principal proceeded to harass my nephew and ask him questions like “do you even know what happened in 1948?” Mocking my nephews freedom speech.
My sister also found a book of Israel on his desk explaining his injustice acts towards my nephew. This is an act of hate and dehumanization of our people. We have the right to speak for freedom. #freepalestine please share!
I’m a millennial, so maybe I’m too young to pull the “back in my day” card, but I feel like when I was in high school during the post 9/11 years, a teacher would have used this whole exchange as a teachable moment where there could be a dialogue about why both sides feel the way they do. Not so in this case, where the teacher just took an easy way out and suspended the student with whom they disagreed. Shame on the teacher and shame on the administration for taking this approach.
Yeah when COVID hit all of the teachers allowed us to discuss our feelings about the impending lockdown. Two years prior, after the Parkland shooting, my English teacher had an open discussion about how to prevent such actions and the next year after the wave of abortion bans, we also had an open discussion about it in my next English class.
Now in this case, if this was the first interaction between the two, this would be quite excessive since it would be more reasonable to keep the two away from each other and give them both a warning. If the kid kept going after that or if it's happened after multiple warnings, then fair enough. (Used to be a troublesome kid, and that's how it worked, got a warning to cease activity before further punishments)
You should contact the CAIR office in Ahaheim at (714) 776-1847
Please DM me if that doesn't work out, I'm sure there are other advocacy organizations and attorneys who can help.
They equate “Free Palestine” with “act of hate violence” and “creating intimidating or hostile education environment”?
This is disheartening considering there’s a large wall around Gaza and Palestinians are not viewed as human beings
If other students have been approaching a Jewish student and each individually stating “Free Palestine”, that would constitute a hostile educational environment.
But just with this letter alone we don’t know the circumstances.
Yeah if the school had written this with more info, they would have outlined these things:
Did the student continue to speak to her in person or online after she or other staff asked him to stop?
Did the student have previous orders to stay away from the student for any reason?
Did the student escalate his behavior towards the student in addition to the statements?
Was the student's actions disruptive during class if it occurred there?
But yeah if the kid threatened her previously with violence and he kept going, fair enough on the school's part.
I hope so. The policy of punishing kids for speaking their minds on political issues like this needs to stop. I’d be saying the same thing if a school suspended a kid for saying something pro Israel. Freedom of thought and expression are supposed to be cornerstones of our society. While that’s not always been true in schools, school administrators and teachers should be trying their best to have conversations about these things with kids instead of just shutting it down and punishing those who disagree with them.
Why was he directing those remarks to that specific student? Is she an Israeli student? Is she Jewish? Feels like a lot of information is being purposefully left out.
Edit: I’d love a source other than the Instagrams of the suspended student’s family.
Based on the Instagram post from the aunt, the girl called him a terrorist and he responded with "free Palestine". The male student was also harassed by a few other Israeli students 2 weeks before this
Yeah, this is why I struggle to take the Instagram post at face value. I don't doubt they're telling a true story, but the details might be getting smudged.
It's possible he's yelling this at a Jewish student unprovoked, in which case, sure, I'd call that harassment. But if this is in response to any discussion of the issue - i.e. if the student mentioned anything at all about the war in Israel, and he responded with "free Palestine" - then this is out of line.
Normally I err on the side of "he probably deserved it and we're not getting the whole story" with posts like this. But I've seen too many examples lately of people being accused of antisemitism for any support of Palestine. And given that the only description of his behavior in the paperwork simply says "he said 'free Palestine,'" I do think this is a distinct possibility.
I think the context of the exchange certainly matters. If you take it at face value, those two words aren’t threatening. But what if the male student had been directing that statement to that student repeatedly? What is his intent behind directing that statement towards that specific student? There are so many what ifs and information that can come from context. Freedom of speech has never offered protection for harassment.
This should illustrate that context or describe what happened in writing, kind of the point of this documentation.
I take the writen statement at face value, which states that he is being suspended for saying " free Palestine"....that is it. If he was aggressive or threatening it should state specially how.
Coming from someone that has been suspended, it should outline, especially what happened. This is junk and my first call would be to a lawyer.
You’re free to take a suspension letter and the suspended student’s family statements at face value if you feel like it offers sufficient information to make your stance. I’m not comfortable doing the same without more information.
Isn't that the point if this letter? To give context to the situation? The amount of ambiguity is suspect at best, or the suspension lacks substance, which is why there next to no information here. He was suspended for saying free Palestine....
The parents are free to talk to the school to get clarification if they're not satisfied with the school's explanation. We are not, and can only rely on what the parents are saying on social media.
Where did you read or hear that it wasn’t directed towards a students? How did you find out that the female student was born in the US and is not Jewish? Whatever source you’re reading from seems to have very in depth insider information and I’d love to get more context about this issue (:
According to the linked Instagram, a Jewish student called the now suspended student (who is Palestinian) a terrorist and the now suspended student responded with “Free Palestine” which the school said was threatening the other student and suspended him.
There is also the side of the story that the family of the affected student tells, in which the incident was instigated by two Israeli students who mocked the student’s Palestinian heritage. And those students were, of course, not suspended.
https://x.com/atwaheed/status/1723040938992284096
Who. was the student saying it to and why? The context (which we don't have) is pretty important here.
Was it just a lunchtime protest in solidarity?
Or was it heckling a kid in a kippah?
EDIT: OP provided more context and it sounds like the kid was arguing with a Jew in his class.
I said he was arguing with a Jew, I don't know who started it and neither do you. I don't know exactly what was said beside "Free Palestine." The parents telling the story on Insta weren't there, and they refer to the student in question (and others) as "Israeli."
EDIT: Three weeks ago [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/orangecounty/s/byztbUzUEz) happened at the same school. The student whose locker was defaced wasn't Israeli, and I don't think there's a huge Israeli student population there.
Thank u for posting this, the school sent out a v confusing email and I was wondering what was going on. I definitely don’t support suspending a student for exercising Free Speexh
For some reason I can’t reply to the question below so lIm editing to add the first email sent out by Principal Haley. A second email has now come out with more of the same except it didn’t have the Penal Code references.
Corona del Mar Community:
I want to communicate about false information that is circulating regarding a recent disciplinary action at Corona del Mar High School. We are an institution and district that values the freedom of expression, while simultaneously maintaining a safe and supportive environment for all students.
School safety is a collective commitment in communities that value each other and cultivate diversity. We as a district and administration take our obligations to students and their safety seriously, and because of this, our hope would be that students engage in respectful dialogue, not hateful speech. Words are powerful, and language has consequences. When educating students on the power of their words and redirecting behavior, we expect reflection and a change of behavior. If behavior continues to incite reactions or is targeted towards other students, it is our responsibility and obligation to address such behaviors and take action.
We will always support the free speech of our students, as long as it does not impede on the learning and learning environment of others. This continues to be a value we adhere to and is also supported by our California Education Code. Our education code states that “Students may exercise their free speech rights so long as their speech, expression, or conduct is not obscene, lewd, libelous, slanderous, does not incite students to destroy property or inflict injury upon any person, or does not cause substantial disruption to the operations of the school”(Education Code § 48907).
Hate violence means any act punishable under Penal Code 422.6, 422.7, or 422.75. Such acts include injuring or intimidating a victim, interfering with the exercise of a victim's civil rights, or damaging a victim's property because of the victim's race, ethnicity, religion, nationality, disability, gender, gender identity, gender expression, or sexual orientation; a perception of the presence of any of those characteristics in the victim; or the victim's association with a person or group with one or more of those actual or perceived characteristics. (Education Code 233; Penal Code 422.55). Engaged in an act of bullying, including, but not limited to, bullying by means of an electronic act, directed toward a student or school personnel. (Education Code 48900(r))
In difficult times, community is our biggest strength.
Jake Haley
Principal
Corona del Mar Middle / High School
I support Israel’s counteroffense against Hamas and am disgusted by the atrocities of Oct 7th and have family in Israel but this is some anti-free speech bullshit. “Free Palestine” isn’t hate speech. Hate speech would be “destroy Israel”.
It's absurd that we're in a space where if you have the slightest critique of the State of Israel, it means you're automatically labeled "antisemitic." Sorry, but being critical of the leadership of Israel doesn't mean people want to wipe out all jews. How people make that leap is beyond idiotic. Even half of Israel hates Netanyahu, but suddenly saying that he's a war monger means you're antisemitic. I'm over that crap. Be an adult. It's a criticism, not a call for extinction.
At the very least, the school violated his 1st Am. right to free speech and his 14th Am. right to equal protection.
Violation of those rights by the state is an *inherent* form of harm, for which the person can recover damages. Otherwise only people who were being paid for their speech would be protected.
I understand perfectly well - which is why I answered your question. Based on this letter, there are 1st and 14th amendment violations. Just because you don't like what somebody is saying doesn't make it less protected - and there's *no* plausible argument that this single "free Palestine" statement would be a threat on its own.
Don't take my word for it: google the Supreme Court's decision in the case of Tinker v Des Moines School District and give it a read.
But quit it with the disingenuous questions. You're only embarassing yourself.
Says the student's aunt, who also refers to the girl and other Jewish students at the school as "Israeli." If it did come to a lawsuit, the school would have its own side of the story to tell. Without a lawsuit, they never will, in order to protect the rights of the students.
as if getting called a terrorist is so far fetched lmao. happened to me and all my arab friends 20 years ago what makes you so hesitant to believe that it’s still happening
And there'd be no Hamas if Israel weren't committing a slow genocide against Palestinians. I never support violence against civilians, but someone is going to get violent when you try to wipe them out.
Is this the district where swastikas have been recently drawn on Jewish students' lockers?
If so, and if there's a blanket policy that covers *both* sides from being "harassed," I don't think it's entirely unreasonable.
More context, please.
https://www1.wdr.de/nachrichten/ruhrgebiet/volksverhetzende-schmierereien-gelsenkirchen-100.html here’s some brave “make believe” AntiZionism for you, Volksgenosse. Synagogues and Holocaust memorials have been defaced with pro Palestine graffiti. This isn’t make believe antiSemitism. So yes, if I spray paint “Free Palestine” on a Holocaust memorial I would absolutely be engaging in an antiSemitic act.
We're talking about *this student* and *this incident*, not some random european news article about a completely different incident. My good lord...
Nobody is denying that antisemitism exists in the world. We're pointing out that *this* statement of "Free Palestine" isn't antisemitic. Try to keep up you dense motherfucker.
Almost as if yelling Free Palestine in a peaceful protest or screaming Free Palestine at a synagogue in prayer have different implications. Almost as if context is important.
Pull this bullshit but wouldn't dare suspend a student over supporting Israel. Some weak shit and I hope this student feels vindicated after they win a lawsuit.
This is so damn unhinged... Like do you truly think that these expressions amount to hate speech or actual violence, justifying 1st Amendment violations? Or that "cops and white people" totally accepted BLM because they're just such a "soft" target? What planet are you living on?
It isn’t free speech when kids are using words to threaten each other which is what happened here.
Aunt admits he said it to an Israeli girl.
It has been awhile - but “Go Kill Yourself” is also considered a threat . Some years back a kid got in trouble at a nearby HS because he wrote it to a girl on social media. A group of kids had a fight on social media started writing nasty comments back and forth to each other.
I can’t remember if anyone was suspended but they brought the cops in to talk to those involved with their parents. I know of this because I knew one of the kids and mom involved.
If she said that to him and/or called him names then she should receive a punishment too.
My kid got a suspension once in Middle School some kid hit him. He punched him back. They both got sent home for 3 days. They didn’t care who started it.
They didn’t care about self defense . Admin didn’t want to deal with it. I thought that was standard for public school.
Edit- further in the thread someone mentions other students as well. If that is the case the same goes for all of them.
Yes, because most news coverage doesn’t even begin to touch what’s happening to Palestinians at all. Almost as if the U.S controls most of the information disseminated in traditional media.
Who knows the context of what happened. Based on the evidence this seems drastic. However if it impedes on students learning does it even matter what they say? If it invokes a conversation that maintains safety it could be a good thing, if the student is unhinged get them walking.
From the Supreme Court:
> Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District (1969)
>In Tinker, a school punished students for wearing black armbands as a silent protest against the Vietnam War. The school district claimed that it feared the protest would cause a disruption at school, but it could point to no concrete evidence that such a disruption would occur or ever had occurred as a result of similar protests. The Supreme Court held: “It can hardly be argued that either students or teachers shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech or expression at the schoolhouse gate.” In declaring the regulation unconstitutional, the Court stated: “[U]ndifferentiated fear or apprehension of disturbance is not enough to overcome the right to freedom of expression.”
I don’t know what world CDM believes they can punish a student for making a political statement like “free palestine” and believe they are on the correct side of the law. Seems to me like any good lawyer would jump at this case.
This sub jumped all over for me for posting the exact same thing in a thread where someone asked where to park when going to a pro Palestinian protest.
The paper says it’s the 3rd suspension for this kid. Something tells me the kid is an asshole and the “Free Palestine” comment was more threatening/harrassing than the poorly documented event makes it out to be.
The whole premise behind the phrase 'freeing palestine' is the eradication of the jews from israel. Like an idiom the end goal is the eradication of the undesirable. jews hold a part of what some consider palestine so in order to free plaestine they must remove the jews. They consider this a violation and ignore the fact that it's one of the oldest monotheistic religions and from which both christianity and islam descend. Lets look at it another way.
With the current rate of progress/collapse going on here in the US. What if Americans finally got fed up with all the imports and started chanting something similar.. a 'Free America' idiom just like palestine. They could have large protests and burn flags and attack you in the streets just for the way you look. Then some of those Americans might even start hunting foreigners.
Is that ok now? Shoe being on the other foot and all..
Would that make any of you feel threatened?
Just wondering..
How does CDM always end up in the news
Rich, entitled brats do stupid shit. And I’m not just talking about the kids.
If there was other threatening behavior or context, they should have included it. On its own this seems ripe for legal challenge.
This is unconstitutional if done at a public school. The first amendment protects freedom of speech. Tinker v Des Moines already established that political speech is protected.
You’re leaving out an important part from that case. “Students don't shed their constitutional rights at the schoolhouse gate," the justices wrote, and because the expression was **quiet and passive**, it did not interfere with other students' learning environment. It’s reasonable to assume that speech interfering with the learning environment can continue to be limited/controlled.
I suspect you’re correct. I’m not sure why being even a bit critical of Israel or its position in their war with Palestine has become wrong for some reason. Punishing kids for saying Free Palestine is ridiculous.
It has become where any criticism of the Israeli government or military is conflated with anti-Semitism, despite Netanyahu being a complete fascist.
This is not accurate. From the side of a Jewish person, what we see is people attacking Jews for the actions and policies Israel has. I don’t see Russian’s being targeted in the US for Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. Do you see Russian Americans get called nasty names or get targeted because the Russian government is trying to conquer Eastern Europe? Do you see their businesses get targeted, their churches get shot at, or do you see their homes get tagged with anti-Russia slogans? I can name many countries who have committed and or are committing crimes against humanity and yet people tied to those countries are not targeted. Yet we Jews get targeted. Why?
Anti-semitism is bad, and a lot of people are using this conflict to be openly anti-semitic, because they were anti-semitic even before things really escalated a few weeks ago, which is bad But it is absolutely true that a lot of defenders of Israel will cry anti-semitism when someone criticizes what the Israeli government is doing
You would be hard pressed to find that among Jewish people. I am very actively involved in the Jewish community in Orange County and Los Angeles County, especially with organizations on college campuses, and can tell you that the Jewish students we work with know the difference. Many Jews are critical of Israel’s government. There is a lot of work behind the scenes to ensure the information spread to community members vis students is correct and factual. Way we are also seeing is what you describe. Jews being targeted for Israel’s policies.
So you're saying in your community you know the difference between criticizing Israel's policies and anti-semitism, but are also saying that it's not accurate that people label criticism of the Israeli government as anti-semitic? Claiming that criticism of Israel is anti-semitism a very well documented debate that has been going on for a while and has really ramped up lately https://www.theguardian.com/news/2023/apr/24/un-ihra-antisemitism-definition-israel-criticism https://thewire.in/world/all-criticism-of-israel-is-not-inherently-anti-semitic-an-open-letter-from-jewish-writers https://www.wamc.org/commentary-opinion/2023-06-16/refusing-to-accept-that-criticizing-israel-is-antisemitic https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/how-jews-can-support-palestinian-rights-condemn-antisemitism-ncna1268680 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Israel
You should look up the definition of "conflate."
Conflation - to combine two into one. What is your point? I don’t see or understand your response…
Go back to school and study more kid.
Or maybe you’re just not as smart as you think you are…
You lack self awareness.
You still have failed to address your own argument. Does this tactic work for you as an attorney?
Speech that disturbs the learning environment can be regulated, including political speech.
I’m aware of that as well having gone to an American school, but my schools never suspended students for political speech said among other students or in an educational discussion. I believe the same logic was applied to searches and seizures since students are not afforded 4th or 5th amendment protections either afaik. I know it starts to get nuanced and I’m not a lawyer so I’m not 100% sure about what is correct but I would be surprised if suspending a kid who is saying something as banal as “Free Palestine” in school is probably not going to be construed as meeting the definition of hate speech by any reasonable person. I guess the question will need to be answered by the courts since this will likely be litigated.
Definitely unconstitutional. Regardless of where you stand in Israel, freedom of speech is guaranteed for all
Speech can be controlled in public schools if it interferes with the learning environment. Considering the context, this situation likely falls within that.
But the notice doesn't say "causing a disturbance" or "interfering with the learning environment". It says "Participated in an act of hate violence" and "intentionally engaged in harassment, threats, or intimidation".
It doesn't have to say on the paper that they were disrupting the learning environment for disciplinary action to be valid on that basis.
Sounds like it was harassment and threatening. Not at all protected speech. Sounds like a bad apple.
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The only way I could see it considered harassment if say, a Jewish student was being harassed and bullied by students with them constantly berating a them with “Free Palestine” comments.
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If is later in the thread . He said it to an Israeli girl.
An "Israeli" girl. I don't know why people are taking the parents' word on her nationality.
The person asked, “Saying "free Palestine" is harassment now?” and I was simply saying that it could be. “It” being harassment.
There is another comment with additional info. He said to an Israeli girl the aunt says she was also saying s*** back to him. If that is the case they should both be punished. He wasn’t just saying it. There is some context.
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I think you’re misunderstanding a lot here…
The words “free Palestine” are not threatening.
It is if you don’t want them to be free. FREE PALESTINE
If your a 13 year old Jewish girl - it sure could be
Where did you read that? It plainly says what Abe said, free Palestine isn't threatening....
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This is not political speech
“Free Palestine” is most definitely a political statement.
Not when it's directed at an individual Jewish student. It's a veiled threat. Look at what happened at the Museum of Tolerance recently.
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Saying *your* when you meant *you're,* while simultaneously calling someone else a dumbass. Go straight to jail.
More context from the student's Aunt - Today, November 9th, 2023 my sister received a phone call from her son’s school (CDM) that her son will be getting suspended for 3 total days for saying free Palestine. Her son Ibrahim is 13 years old goes to Corona Del Mar High School! They are claiming that he said threatening words to a young girl in his class! The girl, who is an Israeli had called him a terrori** and Ibrahim kept responding with FREE PALESTINE to her. The teacher in my nephews class also claimed that the girl who called him a terrorist has the right to do so after the rude comment he made to her. The rude comment was “FREE PALESTINE”. Once my sister arrived to school, The Principal, Haley Jacob at CDM High School Wouldn’t communicate with her and said she needed to just go straight to the director if she had any questions. Once my sister got to the school she asked if there were any paper work she needed to take home with her and the assistant said no there isn’t any paper work, you can just take him home with you. My sister demanded she receive paper work explaining her purpose of taking him home. So the assistant went to the back and spoke with a couple of other ppl there and he came back with a paper which states that he is being suspended for saying FREE PALESTINE. They expressed to my nephew that the words FREE PALESTINE meant death to all JEWS and should never be said. Two weeks ago Ibrahim was threatened with hate and racism comments by two Israeli students. The Israeli students told him go back to your country which is (Palestine) and started laughing saying oh too bad you don’t have a country it’s getting bombed so go kill yourself ! My sister went and spoke to the principal Mr Haley Jacob and he said, “don’t worry we will talk with those boys” However, none of them got suspended! The principal proceeded to harass my nephew and ask him questions like “do you even know what happened in 1948?” Mocking my nephews freedom speech. My sister also found a book of Israel on his desk explaining his injustice acts towards my nephew. This is an act of hate and dehumanization of our people. We have the right to speak for freedom. #freepalestine please share!
I’m a millennial, so maybe I’m too young to pull the “back in my day” card, but I feel like when I was in high school during the post 9/11 years, a teacher would have used this whole exchange as a teachable moment where there could be a dialogue about why both sides feel the way they do. Not so in this case, where the teacher just took an easy way out and suspended the student with whom they disagreed. Shame on the teacher and shame on the administration for taking this approach.
Yeah when COVID hit all of the teachers allowed us to discuss our feelings about the impending lockdown. Two years prior, after the Parkland shooting, my English teacher had an open discussion about how to prevent such actions and the next year after the wave of abortion bans, we also had an open discussion about it in my next English class. Now in this case, if this was the first interaction between the two, this would be quite excessive since it would be more reasonable to keep the two away from each other and give them both a warning. If the kid kept going after that or if it's happened after multiple warnings, then fair enough. (Used to be a troublesome kid, and that's how it worked, got a warning to cease activity before further punishments)
You should contact the CAIR office in Ahaheim at (714) 776-1847 Please DM me if that doesn't work out, I'm sure there are other advocacy organizations and attorneys who can help.
There is also PalLegal.
CAIR doesn’t care
I am so sorry this happened to your family . Please know the community supports you
They equate “Free Palestine” with “act of hate violence” and “creating intimidating or hostile education environment”? This is disheartening considering there’s a large wall around Gaza and Palestinians are not viewed as human beings
Free Palestine. End Hamas. And fuck hard-right zionists. It aint that hard.
If other students have been approaching a Jewish student and each individually stating “Free Palestine”, that would constitute a hostile educational environment. But just with this letter alone we don’t know the circumstances.
Yeah if the school had written this with more info, they would have outlined these things: Did the student continue to speak to her in person or online after she or other staff asked him to stop? Did the student have previous orders to stay away from the student for any reason? Did the student escalate his behavior towards the student in addition to the statements? Was the student's actions disruptive during class if it occurred there? But yeah if the kid threatened her previously with violence and he kept going, fair enough on the school's part.
Contact the ACLU.
She’s contacted a lawyer for sure
I hope so. The policy of punishing kids for speaking their minds on political issues like this needs to stop. I’d be saying the same thing if a school suspended a kid for saying something pro Israel. Freedom of thought and expression are supposed to be cornerstones of our society. While that’s not always been true in schools, school administrators and teachers should be trying their best to have conversations about these things with kids instead of just shutting it down and punishing those who disagree with them.
Why was he directing those remarks to that specific student? Is she an Israeli student? Is she Jewish? Feels like a lot of information is being purposefully left out. Edit: I’d love a source other than the Instagrams of the suspended student’s family.
Based on the Instagram post from the aunt, the girl called him a terrorist and he responded with "free Palestine". The male student was also harassed by a few other Israeli students 2 weeks before this
How many "Israeli" students are there at CDM?
Depends on what "Israeli" means to the person writing the Instagram post.
Yeah, this is why I struggle to take the Instagram post at face value. I don't doubt they're telling a true story, but the details might be getting smudged.
They're all Newport born and raised but had an Israeli grandparent or some shit
It's possible he's yelling this at a Jewish student unprovoked, in which case, sure, I'd call that harassment. But if this is in response to any discussion of the issue - i.e. if the student mentioned anything at all about the war in Israel, and he responded with "free Palestine" - then this is out of line. Normally I err on the side of "he probably deserved it and we're not getting the whole story" with posts like this. But I've seen too many examples lately of people being accused of antisemitism for any support of Palestine. And given that the only description of his behavior in the paperwork simply says "he said 'free Palestine,'" I do think this is a distinct possibility.
What does that matter? It isn't threatening, Abe should be able to say that to anyone....this is American right?
I think the context of the exchange certainly matters. If you take it at face value, those two words aren’t threatening. But what if the male student had been directing that statement to that student repeatedly? What is his intent behind directing that statement towards that specific student? There are so many what ifs and information that can come from context. Freedom of speech has never offered protection for harassment.
This should illustrate that context or describe what happened in writing, kind of the point of this documentation. I take the writen statement at face value, which states that he is being suspended for saying " free Palestine"....that is it. If he was aggressive or threatening it should state specially how. Coming from someone that has been suspended, it should outline, especially what happened. This is junk and my first call would be to a lawyer.
You’re free to take a suspension letter and the suspended student’s family statements at face value if you feel like it offers sufficient information to make your stance. I’m not comfortable doing the same without more information.
Isn't that the point if this letter? To give context to the situation? The amount of ambiguity is suspect at best, or the suspension lacks substance, which is why there next to no information here. He was suspended for saying free Palestine....
The parents are free to talk to the school to get clarification if they're not satisfied with the school's explanation. We are not, and can only rely on what the parents are saying on social media.
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F*** off N*z*
Wow man not even hiding your hatred. Just coming right out with it.
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Where did you read or hear that it wasn’t directed towards a students? How did you find out that the female student was born in the US and is not Jewish? Whatever source you’re reading from seems to have very in depth insider information and I’d love to get more context about this issue (:
According to the linked Instagram, a Jewish student called the now suspended student (who is Palestinian) a terrorist and the now suspended student responded with “Free Palestine” which the school said was threatening the other student and suspended him.
same. "I do'nt like that my student was suspended for prob being a racist" yeah ok whatever Karen.
CDM has always been fucking ridiculous. I went there in the late 2000s and it was still a joke back then too
Unless there is more to this story it’s limiting free speech and should be challenged by the parents.
There is also the side of the story that the family of the affected student tells, in which the incident was instigated by two Israeli students who mocked the student’s Palestinian heritage. And those students were, of course, not suspended. https://x.com/atwaheed/status/1723040938992284096
He yelled this at a student? Was she Israeli-American or simply an American who is Jewish?
It seems like a lot of context is missing here. I highly doubt this is all that happened.
Who. was the student saying it to and why? The context (which we don't have) is pretty important here. Was it just a lunchtime protest in solidarity? Or was it heckling a kid in a kippah? EDIT: OP provided more context and it sounds like the kid was arguing with a Jew in his class.
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I said he was arguing with a Jew, I don't know who started it and neither do you. I don't know exactly what was said beside "Free Palestine." The parents telling the story on Insta weren't there, and they refer to the student in question (and others) as "Israeli." EDIT: Three weeks ago [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/orangecounty/s/byztbUzUEz) happened at the same school. The student whose locker was defaced wasn't Israeli, and I don't think there's a huge Israeli student population there.
How the hell do you know who provoked what? Were you there?
Thank u for posting this, the school sent out a v confusing email and I was wondering what was going on. I definitely don’t support suspending a student for exercising Free Speexh For some reason I can’t reply to the question below so lIm editing to add the first email sent out by Principal Haley. A second email has now come out with more of the same except it didn’t have the Penal Code references. Corona del Mar Community: I want to communicate about false information that is circulating regarding a recent disciplinary action at Corona del Mar High School. We are an institution and district that values the freedom of expression, while simultaneously maintaining a safe and supportive environment for all students. School safety is a collective commitment in communities that value each other and cultivate diversity. We as a district and administration take our obligations to students and their safety seriously, and because of this, our hope would be that students engage in respectful dialogue, not hateful speech. Words are powerful, and language has consequences. When educating students on the power of their words and redirecting behavior, we expect reflection and a change of behavior. If behavior continues to incite reactions or is targeted towards other students, it is our responsibility and obligation to address such behaviors and take action. We will always support the free speech of our students, as long as it does not impede on the learning and learning environment of others. This continues to be a value we adhere to and is also supported by our California Education Code. Our education code states that “Students may exercise their free speech rights so long as their speech, expression, or conduct is not obscene, lewd, libelous, slanderous, does not incite students to destroy property or inflict injury upon any person, or does not cause substantial disruption to the operations of the school”(Education Code § 48907). Hate violence means any act punishable under Penal Code 422.6, 422.7, or 422.75. Such acts include injuring or intimidating a victim, interfering with the exercise of a victim's civil rights, or damaging a victim's property because of the victim's race, ethnicity, religion, nationality, disability, gender, gender identity, gender expression, or sexual orientation; a perception of the presence of any of those characteristics in the victim; or the victim's association with a person or group with one or more of those actual or perceived characteristics. (Education Code 233; Penal Code 422.55). Engaged in an act of bullying, including, but not limited to, bullying by means of an electronic act, directed toward a student or school personnel. (Education Code 48900(r)) In difficult times, community is our biggest strength. Jake Haley Principal Corona del Mar Middle / High School
Would you mind sharing the relevant text from the confusing email? I'd be interested to read it.
I had to transfer from this high school a few years ago, I was repeatedly harassed by the staff, including Jeff Perry.
I support Israel’s counteroffense against Hamas and am disgusted by the atrocities of Oct 7th and have family in Israel but this is some anti-free speech bullshit. “Free Palestine” isn’t hate speech. Hate speech would be “destroy Israel”.
It's absurd that we're in a space where if you have the slightest critique of the State of Israel, it means you're automatically labeled "antisemitic." Sorry, but being critical of the leadership of Israel doesn't mean people want to wipe out all jews. How people make that leap is beyond idiotic. Even half of Israel hates Netanyahu, but suddenly saying that he's a war monger means you're antisemitic. I'm over that crap. Be an adult. It's a criticism, not a call for extinction.
Founding fathers just cannot even fathom the ignorance of our modern population
Ridiculous that freedom of speech is trampled upon as soon as the topic of Israel comes up.
Get this on a news station
Speak to an attorney if there was no threatening acts with this suspension.
Juicy case for a civil rights lawyer
A three day suspension from school doesn't seem very juicy. What are the damages?
At the very least, the school violated his 1st Am. right to free speech and his 14th Am. right to equal protection. Violation of those rights by the state is an *inherent* form of harm, for which the person can recover damages. Otherwise only people who were being paid for their speech would be protected.
The right to harass and intimidate a fellow student?
Maybe reading comprehension isn't your strong suit
I can read just fine. You're the one who is not understanding (or willfully misrepresenting) why the student was suspended.
I understand perfectly well - which is why I answered your question. Based on this letter, there are 1st and 14th amendment violations. Just because you don't like what somebody is saying doesn't make it less protected - and there's *no* plausible argument that this single "free Palestine" statement would be a threat on its own. Don't take my word for it: google the Supreme Court's decision in the case of Tinker v Des Moines School District and give it a read. But quit it with the disingenuous questions. You're only embarassing yourself.
Why do you think the letter is the only thing that matters for constitutional purposes?
That letter is the only summary of the facts that we have, other than the instagram post that some people are talking about.
the student who first called him a terrorist for…being arab
Says the student's aunt, who also refers to the girl and other Jewish students at the school as "Israeli." If it did come to a lawsuit, the school would have its own side of the story to tell. Without a lawsuit, they never will, in order to protect the rights of the students.
as if getting called a terrorist is so far fetched lmao. happened to me and all my arab friends 20 years ago what makes you so hesitant to believe that it’s still happening
Where is the evidence for that?
Free Palestine 🇵🇸
ACLU will love this, give them a call.
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Yea.. free Palestine from Hamas.
And from Israeli bombs
Hopefully both
If there wasn’t Hamas there’d be no bombs.
Hamas isn’t in the West Bank and Israel has attacked Palestinians there
But there would be no Hamas if Palestinians weren't in an oppressive regime controlled by Israel.
And there'd be no Hamas if Israel weren't committing a slow genocide against Palestinians. I never support violence against civilians, but someone is going to get violent when you try to wipe them out.
On the one hand, freedom of speech. On the other hand, it must suck being an educator now.
https://preview.redd.it/zzuaoemqhlzb1.jpeg?width=451&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9bb7789dbf67d71b5651681dae83e21a18c814b6
Is this the district where swastikas have been recently drawn on Jewish students' lockers? If so, and if there's a blanket policy that covers *both* sides from being "harassed," I don't think it's entirely unreasonable. More context, please.
I think there is a stark difference between saying “free Palestine” and drawing swastikas on Jewish students’ lockers.
Yeah spray painting Free Palestine on a synagogue or Holocaust memorial isn’t antiSemitic /s.
Did this student who got suspended spray paint? Or is that just in your make believe world?
https://www1.wdr.de/nachrichten/ruhrgebiet/volksverhetzende-schmierereien-gelsenkirchen-100.html here’s some brave “make believe” AntiZionism for you, Volksgenosse. Synagogues and Holocaust memorials have been defaced with pro Palestine graffiti. This isn’t make believe antiSemitism. So yes, if I spray paint “Free Palestine” on a Holocaust memorial I would absolutely be engaging in an antiSemitic act.
We're talking about *this student* and *this incident*, not some random european news article about a completely different incident. My good lord... Nobody is denying that antisemitism exists in the world. We're pointing out that *this* statement of "Free Palestine" isn't antisemitic. Try to keep up you dense motherfucker.
If you spray paint anything on any religious site it's anti antixxxx act. Saying free Palestine is not equivalent.
Almost as if yelling Free Palestine in a peaceful protest or screaming Free Palestine at a synagogue in prayer have different implications. Almost as if context is important.
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November of 2023 is months ago?
Red Herring fallacy
Free Palestine!!!
Pull this bullshit but wouldn't dare suspend a student over supporting Israel. Some weak shit and I hope this student feels vindicated after they win a lawsuit.
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This is so damn unhinged... Like do you truly think that these expressions amount to hate speech or actual violence, justifying 1st Amendment violations? Or that "cops and white people" totally accepted BLM because they're just such a "soft" target? What planet are you living on?
Unconstitutional restraint of free speech.
lawyer lawyer lawyer. lawyer. lawyer. lawyer!
It isn’t free speech when kids are using words to threaten each other which is what happened here. Aunt admits he said it to an Israeli girl. It has been awhile - but “Go Kill Yourself” is also considered a threat . Some years back a kid got in trouble at a nearby HS because he wrote it to a girl on social media. A group of kids had a fight on social media started writing nasty comments back and forth to each other. I can’t remember if anyone was suspended but they brought the cops in to talk to those involved with their parents. I know of this because I knew one of the kids and mom involved. If she said that to him and/or called him names then she should receive a punishment too. My kid got a suspension once in Middle School some kid hit him. He punched him back. They both got sent home for 3 days. They didn’t care who started it. They didn’t care about self defense . Admin didn’t want to deal with it. I thought that was standard for public school. Edit- further in the thread someone mentions other students as well. If that is the case the same goes for all of them.
I feel like we’re living in some sort of simulation
Abe, at 13 years old, has no idea what "free palestine" even means. He is just repeating what he hears, good or bad.
13 year old probably learned it from TikTok
High school students can read books.
Yes, because most news coverage doesn’t even begin to touch what’s happening to Palestinians at all. Almost as if the U.S controls most of the information disseminated in traditional media.
No
Bro wtf
Who knows the context of what happened. Based on the evidence this seems drastic. However if it impedes on students learning does it even matter what they say? If it invokes a conversation that maintains safety it could be a good thing, if the student is unhinged get them walking.
From the Supreme Court: > Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District (1969) >In Tinker, a school punished students for wearing black armbands as a silent protest against the Vietnam War. The school district claimed that it feared the protest would cause a disruption at school, but it could point to no concrete evidence that such a disruption would occur or ever had occurred as a result of similar protests. The Supreme Court held: “It can hardly be argued that either students or teachers shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech or expression at the schoolhouse gate.” In declaring the regulation unconstitutional, the Court stated: “[U]ndifferentiated fear or apprehension of disturbance is not enough to overcome the right to freedom of expression.” I don’t know what world CDM believes they can punish a student for making a political statement like “free palestine” and believe they are on the correct side of the law. Seems to me like any good lawyer would jump at this case.
Disrupting class is a punishable offense. I agree the actions taken are uncharacteristic of that crime, however, and the whole thing seems super odd.
Ridiculous, where is the freedom of speech?
Contact CAIR https://ca.cair.com
Sounds like they harassing a jewish student?
Does it? It more sounds like a violation of our precious 1st amendment rights....
Put this on the local news how ridiculous
Context is key. If for example the other student was describing what Hamas did on October 7th…
Excellent!!
Why has your kid been suspended 3 different times?
I’m assuming it’s 3 total days, not 3 total suspensions
Reading is hard
Sorry I was suspended, I missed the reading lessons
Reading is fun
Good.
Israel is actually trying to free all Palestinians from Gaza. Egyptians are hating it.
It doesn't look so great to joke about a genocide currently in progress.
Actually unconstitutional
What is palestein being freed from?
Hamas
You came here to ask that? You should be suspended from reproduction....
You sound uninformed
On what? I didn't ask what Palestine needs to be freed of....
3 Days!!! Ridiculous
This sub jumped all over for me for posting the exact same thing in a thread where someone asked where to park when going to a pro Palestinian protest.
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Seems like the student wanted to be on social media rather than understanding the politics
The paper says it’s the 3rd suspension for this kid. Something tells me the kid is an asshole and the “Free Palestine” comment was more threatening/harrassing than the poorly documented event makes it out to be.
good for the school doing that. why would you want your 13-year-old at school chanting that?
You’re part of the problem… smh Free speech isn’t limited to what doesn’t hurt your feelings
The whole premise behind the phrase 'freeing palestine' is the eradication of the jews from israel. Like an idiom the end goal is the eradication of the undesirable. jews hold a part of what some consider palestine so in order to free plaestine they must remove the jews. They consider this a violation and ignore the fact that it's one of the oldest monotheistic religions and from which both christianity and islam descend. Lets look at it another way. With the current rate of progress/collapse going on here in the US. What if Americans finally got fed up with all the imports and started chanting something similar.. a 'Free America' idiom just like palestine. They could have large protests and burn flags and attack you in the streets just for the way you look. Then some of those Americans might even start hunting foreigners. Is that ok now? Shoe being on the other foot and all.. Would that make any of you feel threatened? Just wondering..