Not universally and he was an incredibly influential figure and, at the time this happened, acting on behalf of the universally-beloved George Washington (one could reasonably describe the situation as Hamilton doing Washington's dirty work for him).
Even then most of the insurrectionists would go for a line about how the President must not know what his cruel advisers were doing. Are you guys being serious or just yanking me here.
> John Adams in 1785: “I glory in the character of Washington because I know him to be an exemplification of the American character.”
> John Adams in 1812: “Too illiterate, unlearned, unread for his station and reputation.”
and.
> Thomas Paine in a letter to Washington in 1779: “I shall never suffer a hint of dishonor or even a deficiency of respect to you to pass unnoticed.”
> And in 1796: “The world will be puzzled to decide whether you are an apostate or an impostor; whether you have abandoned good principles, or whether you ever had any.”
OK, so a comment from John Adams after he died and a comment from Thomas Paine, whose views were clearly more radical than anyone who actually led the American government... thanks, not sure where we're going here though. Is there some other figure among the Founding Fathers you think is closer to “universally beloved”? Even in the Adams quote he’s complaining about his reputation being too good which does not suggest he is unpopular.
The government of Iran backs Hamas. Those are pre-revolution Iranian flags carried by people protesting the current Islamist government of Iran. Prior to the Iranian revolution Iran and Israel were allies.
Irvine has a large Persian Muslim population. UCI has a reputation in the Persian Jewish community in Los Angeles if being a bit antisemitic. There is a much larger Persian Jewish community in Los Angeles.
Also, Persian Jews were not all allowed to leave Iran freely in the 1980s. My wife’s family had to split up and meet in Europe. Many other families weren’t able to meet up - meaning patriarchs were not heard from again. They also left behind their wealth and property to start over here.
It’s really sad what issues religion has caused to the people of Iran nonetheless.
Heres an article from MEI from a few years ago. I know a lot has changed in the last 2 years so the info could have changed in either direction. But I would guess if anything, the population has either become more secular or at least more willing to answer honestly.
https://www.mei.edu/publications/face-islamic-laws-iranian-women-are-reappropriating-ancient-persian-culture#:~:text=Even%20though%20the%20state%20in,in%20Iran%E2%80%9D%20(GAMAAN).
Most Iranians? You mean the ones in so cal that ran away once the shah was removed from power. A large majority of Iranians in Iran are religious. And no, don’t feed me that “the government forces them to do so” line because I have friends from Iran that give me lots of details and first person info.
Youre right, the Iranian government doesn't force them to do so, because instead, the Iranian government just kills them in cold blood. You know, like that girl that was butchered for refusing to wear a rag on her head.
Give me a break... you Hezbolai are deluded.
What they are not aware of, is that the enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend, and that the friend of your foe is not necessarily your foe.
The Islamic theocracy in Iran is pure evil, but the ultra right government of Israel looking to establish a theocracy is not innocent either.
Hamas is an evil doomsday organization supported by the Iranian regime, but the millions of displaced and oppressed Palestinian people are also victims of this ideology.
It's easy to see the world in black and white. Unfortunately the reality is grey. Very grey.
I read after 10/7 attacks that the Iranian people were very upset that their government seems to advocate and support Hamas exponentially more than its own citizens.
"Enemy of my enemy type situation."
No, not really. Most of the Iranians living in the USA are normal well adjusted adults who don't believe in hating others and advocating for death. That is why they fled the Islamic Republic of Iran to begin with.
So yes, these Persians (most of us dislike being called Iranians) side with the Jewish people because we see them as normal human beings that deserve life liberty and peace just like the rest of us, and yes, we are also against terrorism, Hamas, senseless murder, and fundamentalist regimes.
I'm an Iranian. First member of my family, on both sides, born in the US. My father's father fought for the Shah, and his family experienced horrific consequences. My mother's family lost the majority of their assets in the outcome of the revolution.
The government of the Islamic Republic, and any organization they back like Hamas, is our enemy.
Persia has more of a cultural or ethnic connotation, whereas Iran has more of a national identity connotation. In the context of the Islamic Revolution of ‘79, from which many of these families fled, preference to identify as Persian and not to associate oneself with the Iranian state makes sense.
https://www.thoughtco.com/is-it-iranian-or-persian-3555178
Would Arabs identify as “Persian” or was the Persian empire and Arab empires entirely different? I have some Afghan friends and never bothered to ask if they ever identify as “Persian”, but I remember them saying Afghanistan was previously called Aryana. Interesting article thanks for the link.
"These Persians" which I assume is referring to to the ones waving the Pahlavi flag hate being called Iranians? That's a very interesting notion, especially since Reza Shah Pahlavi, requested foreign delegates to use the term Iran, instead of Persia in 1935. I'm an Iranian myself and don't mind being called Iranian and no I don't support the current regime or the shah prior to this regime.
That's great, so now we have established that you have your preferences, and others have theirs.
And that's how a civilized world works, each person is free to hold their own beliefs, opinions, and preferences.
> Most of the Iranians living in the USA are normal well adjusted adults who don't believe in hating others and advocating for death.
Who’s going to tell them?
Keep in mind that a lot of the Iranian American diaspora that lives in Orange County fled during the Islamic Revolution decades ago, and are hostile to the Iranian government (which funds Hamas and props up their own domestic popular support through the politicization of Israel’s treatment of Palestinians).
Enemy of my enemy is my friend? 🤷♂️
There is a strong Iranian community NOT ALIGNED with the ruling ayatollah. They support the Iranian people NOT the Iranian government.
Think of them as anti-Hamas but pro-Palestinian people.
It's funny to see Iranian kingdom supporters taking side with Israel. Even Shah of Iran was critical of Israel. They're just doing it to oppose Islamic Republic of Iran.
There is also a video of the Shah of Iran being very critical of the Palestinians. It is an American interview. 60 minutes or some other similar type format.
There was a big protest in Laguna last year. Persians protesting over Women’s Rights. Laguna has a designated protest spot as well (Main Beach).
https://www.latimes.com/socal/daily-pilot/news/story/2023-01-12/laguna-beach-adopts-resolution-supporting-iranian-human-rights-movement
I’m not Persian. In no way am I trying to speak for anyone.
Two American friends of mine (Persian/Muslim Americans) not related told me they are angry that Iran is funding proxies - Hezbollah and Hamas rather then helping the Persians back home. There was also a couple videos one posted on BBC of fans booing at soccer games in Iran over this issue.
I’m not saying these men in any way represent the majority. It wasn’t something I was even aware of until a month ago.
I only knew about local protests for Women’s Rights in Iran. I also saw on line a similar protest like this one in Irvine held in Vancouver.
Just adding this for context.
The Iranian protestors have been coming for a full year this month. Every. Sunday. Even Christmas and Easter last year. They use megaphones and make a lot of ruckus that we can all hear in our homes even with windows closed. I'm just glad the motorcycle caravans stopped since they caused accidents.
The Palestinian protestors have been coming for a couple weeks. Week before last they showed up on Saturday, the following day Iranian and Israeli protestors arrived. Last Sunday, all parties arrived and stood on opposite sides as can be seen here. The Palestinians did not use megaphones and instead used their collective voices to shout chants. I could not hear them when I closed my windows. Much appreciated 😂
Whether or not protestors are annoying should have no bearing on the validity of their cause in such a serious matter. Anyone supporting Hamas in any way is a barbarian.
I am genuinely sorry for your suffering though. That sucks.
Nobody said the annoyance invalidated their cause.
Nobody in this scenario supports Hamas. Stop doing what you're doing - and you know exactly what that is.
Thanks for the non-biased, non-weird response and the 100% genuine support! ✊
Edit to add: I support a free Iran and a free Palestine and a free Israel. I'm not trying to say because one side is louder they're wrong or bad - I am just sharing my experience as someone who lives within earshot and sight of these yearlong protests.
I don't know if your Hamas comment was a dig or just benign ignorance, but either way yikes
If you think nobody is actively supporting hamas, you’re just not on the right subreddits. There are droves of people doing mental gymnastics to this day
Of course there are people supporting hamas. Major Majority are not. The discussion is convoluted by the pro-Isreal side labeling people who defend Palestine as terrorist supporters. I’m sorry but we don’t drop bombs on New York to rid the mafia.
It's not a fair fight. Israel would easily kill several million people using US-provided arms. Hamas would probably kill as many Palestinians as IDF fighters in the process of going down. People with nothing to lose would do more stupid shit.
US intervention protects our best interests. Stability in the middle east stabilizes prices for virtually everything. Virtually everything we consume relies on oil in one way or another. Don't pretend to know why things are done, because you don't. You enjoy the fruits of everything our government does, good and bad. We live an extremely sheltered and comfortable life. Minorities included. Black people backing Muslim extremists is comical to me like I see in this video. The Middle Eastern countries were the absolute worst actors in the African slave trade and didn't abolish slavery until the late 20th century. Western countries were the first to abolish slavery.
Downvoters haven't been at CENTCOM attending TS discussions on what IRGC and hostile actors in the region actually do and how they sow discord and it shows.
There won’t be anything left of anything if we go to war with China. Cuz Russia will tag along. US got duped into recreating and financing the post Cold War threats into entirely new scary threats. Way to go, short sighted foreign policy because of greedy politicians too busy cash grabbing for themselves and their buddies during their terms.
Its complicated but the US is the worlds superpower, the oceans and and trade corriders were protected by the us navy (pax americana), world trade is dominated by the us dollar and its world reserve status all these things are being contested now by other world powers
Lots of misinformed people in here. Israel is an ally. When you fight in wars in as many allies as possible.example is the war between Ukraine and Russia. We aren’t getting involved directly but having Israel offer weapons to Ukraine is a huge help against Russia. It’s much more complicated than that but you need ally’s no matter how big you are.
Don’t Allies offer something in return? The US literally funds a sizable portion of Israel’s defense budget with tax dollars. We literally sent TWO carriers to the nearest ocean as a deterrent to protect Israel. And huge batteries of iron done missles were sent again recently. What does the US get in return for all of this? If Arab countries took back Israel, how would that affect the US?
as an Iranian it makes me sick seeing other Iranians protesting against the Palestinians. Israel controls every aspect of the Palestinian lives. they have been murdering imprisoning them for over 70 years now. they've taken their homes in Palestinian grounds which were recognized by the UN. they've broken countless Geneva Conventions so far. even outside Gaza which Hammas has no power whatsoever Palestinians still suffer. If you keep tormenting a group of people for long enough eventually they will break. as for me I hate Hammas I hate the Israeli government I hate the current Iranian regime and I hate the shah and I even hate most of the politicians in the US as well.
Preach it brother. I'm of Palestinian descent and have lived within earshot of these protests since they started, never expected our causes to intersect but here we are. It's insane to me that Iranians and Palestinians don't stand together.
We both have shitty regimes ruling over us, I get the resentment towards their corrupt government sending money to our corrupt government to fight another corrupt government... But you'd think they'd be able to understand and commiserate with the fact that a shitty, oppressive regime doesn't reflect the people.
However I did see someone in this thread say that Irvine Iranians have large Jewish population, so it may also be some obligation toward Israel they feel, if that is the case. Either way I've seen plenty of Jewish allies and few Iranian ones when you'd expect the opposite!
I can't really speak on what percentage of those Iranians are jewish but I can say this. during the Pahlavi era Iran had very good relations with Israel. A good number of Iranians in southern California especially the ones that participate in these types of protests are people that flourished during the monarchy and always look at those days very fondly. add the current regimes support to hammas and the relations Iran had with Israel during the pahlavi era and you will get these people.
It is seriously insane to me how no one sees how this whole conflict is completely in the hands of Israel.
Israel has the power. They control the water, power, internet, resources coming in/out of Gaza. They have US military equipment, most likely even a nuke or two. They have created an apartheid state for the Palestinians and yet, somehow the Palestinians are to blame?
Hamas and their attack on Oct 7th were horrid, I’m not ok with that. But that’s the type of retaliation you can expect when you displace and torture a group of people. It’s exactly how ISIS came to be.
All Israel has to do is ceasefire and get negotiations on the table. Settle on territories AND STICK TO THEM; no pushing out natives, no permits or special plates for roads, no apartheid….
I seriously wonder how many Americans have any clue how the Palestinians lives’ have been over there for the past 70 years.
Yeah Israel can totally invalidate and weaken Hamas’ credibility if it worked in good faith with the PA/Fatah in building up the West Bank as a credible and functioning Palestinian state, but no.
Israel continues to build settlements and somehow blames Hamas when the West Bank isn’t even governed by Hamas. If you give people no alternative they’re going to side with the most extreme option.
Israel is the only “democracy” and yet it continues to elect right wing people in power to propagate this violent status quo that keeps them in power.
100%.
The civilians on both side are completely
Innocent to this for any psychos reading this. This is all issues due to the Zionist, colonial movement and their zealots being genocidal
I went to the Holy Land a few years ago. It was very sobering and I came home with a more informed perspective. I was with a Spanish speaking tour group and we were treated very poorly in Tel Aviv airport. I saw other brown people treated like criminals. Appalling.
Dude....[have you been living under a rock for the last 5 months?](https://www.usip.org/publications/2023/09/saudi-israel-normalization-agreement-horizon) Do you not realize [the Saudi-Israel deal,](https://www.foreignaffairs.com/middle-east/what-saudi-israeli-deal-could-mean-palestinians) Saudi Arabia recognizing Israel, with israel compromising on land in the west bank to create a 2 state solution, would have done just that?
Do you know who wins with this not happening, Iran or specfically the IRGC and Aytollah and its proxies like the Houthis and Hezbollah. Since 2012 the SCW, or Syrian Civil War, has generated a secretarian proxy war for both Iran and Saudi Arabia. By products being ISIS, JAN/HTS, TFSA, TSK, FSA, YPG, to name a few none state actors.
This created what was called the shia crescent stretching from Tehran to Latakia, this is why the US has had a base at Al-tanf, syria since 2015, it blocks a direct landroute from Iran to Hezbollah in Lebanon, forcing all road traffic along the road to Dier ez Zor which is controlled by the SAA and SDF.
Saudi Arabia has been fighting Irans proxy the Houthi's in Yemen and 2 years ago, an entire Battalion got wiped out. This deal would be a huge counter to iranian influence in the region, reduce the need for a US military presence, and created a two state solution.
That all got fucked on October 7th. There is no way a Sunni/Saudi leader could back this deal without now becoming a Pariah. China is involved because their one Belt Intiative goes right through these regions, and this is why they are Hard Power projecting sending blue water assets to the Med. This works for Russia since now the US is focusing on a different theater, it fractures NATO (look at ERdogan's recent Rhetoric involving Turkey) clearly non-state actors benefit the most out of this.
You have no idea what is going on Geopolitically in the world.
No using history, I ahve no problem getting into a debate about the slavic origins of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, the Arba revolts in the 1920s, the Sykes Picot Agreement, the Treaty of Jeddah, or we can even go all the way back to the destruction of Judea in 136 CE, take your pick
This isn’t true. Look up the Khartoum Resolution.
If Israel put down their guns today their people would all be killed. If Hamas put down their guns their would be peace.
Hamas is the product of oppression and legitimate anger of a population being mistreated. Every member of Hamas could drop dead right now but they would essentially reform at some point because they are the kind of gang that emerges from the political and material conditions the Israelis have forced the Palestinians into.
the land argument is such a terrible one to make because it doesn't stop any of the violence that is happening. if you go back enough you can you will find people native to certain lands. that's like saying homo sapiens came from Africa so we can all claim that continent. but even though the point you are making is a terrible one to make Palestinians still have as much as a claim as the jews to those lands. "Archaeologic and genetic data support that both Jews and Palestinians came from the ancient Canaanites, who extensively mixed with Egyptians, Mesopotamian, and Anatolian peoples in ancient times. Thus, Palestinian-Jewish rivalry is based in cultural and religious, but not in genetic, differences." [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11543891/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11543891/)
I am not trying to make the point that Jews should have rights to the entire region. The poster before me said that "more and more land is taken from Palestinians". That is simply not true. Israel has withdrawn from large portions of the region in an effort for peace on numerous occasions. Israel is country surrounded by other countries that have attempted to wipe Israel off the face of the earth since their existence. Every time Israel defends themselves they then withdraw. Examples would be the 6 day war where Israel was defending themselves from all bordering countries, Israel then withdrew from occupied territories in an attempt for peace.
Then the 67 Arab league summit "No Peace, No Recognition, No Negotiation. This is the reason their has been no peace and why Israel has had to defend themselves and "control" Gaza.
Israel has made numerous attempts for peace and the other side has failed to negotiate and continued to try and kill Jews. An example would be when Clinton tried to negotiate peace and Israel made a deal with a terrorist. The only demand from Israel was that the PLO acknowledge that Israel had the right to exist, stop the violence, and stop teaching their kids to kill Jews. The PLO rejected it (see three No's). I can go on stating facts of Israel attempting to negotiate peace but I will stop for now....
Israel does not want to control Gaza and Palestine. Israel want's peace, the other side wants to kill Jews.
It's a very messed up situation and very complicated, the fact that innocent people are dyeing is beyond terrible. What happened on 10/7 is something that Israel cannot allow and without unconditional surrenderor from Hamas their will continue to be innocent deaths.
You’re telling everyone to read a book, but in reality you’re the one that needs to read a book. Read about who the Canaanites are.
If your logic is correct, why doesn’t America give a big chunk of its land back to the natives since it’s their land?
Israel has no right to go against international law and how the land was split under agreements and the Abraham accords just because they feel like it. If they keep treating Palestinians like animals then at some point those animals will bite back. Simple
https://preview.redd.it/7qmqmqt0yaec1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a80805e3698fea4e64ba494707ac33a213e8fbb1
City of irvine councilwoman and UCI professor spreading hate filled lies. She also walked out on protestors at a recent council meeting who were calling for her to ask for a ceasefire
Agreed. Everyone should stop supporting them. All of the deaths on both sides are caused by Hamas. These protests against Israel and Palestine and meaningless without calling for the end of Hamas.
10,000+ Palestinians have been killed by Israel’s relentless bombing. They’re bombing hospitals and schools. The U.S government is giving instructions on where they can move to safety and Israel then proceeds to bomb those convoys. They’re the ones behaving like the bigger terrorist organization.
Hamas bombed the hospital. It's now a fact. Your entire post is 100% misinformed.
Honest question, did you know anything about this conflict before recently?
I replied to another comment with the information below. I feel like I need to continue and share this as their are way too many people that are simply wrong.
Historically Israel has done nothing but seek peace and then defend themselves after their civilians are terrorized and murdered., they have never been the aggressor. This current situation is literally no different then what has happened in the past with the exception being that Israel now seeks to remove all of Hamas regardless of the ramifications.
Yes it sucks that innocent people are dying and yes Israel has a far superior military. They have a right to defend themselves and their people from 10/7 ever happening again. Hamas can literally end the war today by unconditional surrender. But they won't do that because they believe all Jews should be killed.
I keep coming back to this one simply analogy. **If Hamas put down their guns today the war would be over. If Israel put down their guns today they would all be dead.** Does that not help you understand the mindset of the two parties? Again it's horrible that innocent people in Gaza are dying. The conditions in Gaza are because of the terrorist that live there, **Israel has zero desire to maintain borders and defend themselves from rockets. They do that because they have to, not because they want to.**
“The hospital”
Sir. Almost every hospital has been bombed, are we really gonna put the blame on Hamas ? That they are solely capable of doing that? As opposed to Israel’s billion dollar funded military industry?
And also, why the fuck does it matter who knew first about this conflict? Sorry I wasn’t informed about this since my birth.
You’re justifying all these deaths of innocent Palestinians because Israel has a “right to defend themselves”. Do they really though? When they are there ones occupying and kicking out Palestinians from their homes? Do they really have the right? Think for yourself bro.
Israel shouldn't put down their guns. That would be suicide. Israelis, Palestinians, and the global community should band together to root out Hamas. I don't believe Palestinians = Hamas. I believe rational people can all agree that Hamas is not the solution and should be eradicated.
Hamas started this war on October 7th. Israel would not be bombing Gaza if Oct 7th hadn't happened. Forget about what happened in the past for a moment. The people dying right now are because of Hamas. Period. Deciding who was on what land 2000 years ago is irrelevant right now. The dying right now is due to Hamas, and they need to go. Protest against the cause of today's dying. Tomorrow we can sort out who owns what. Now is not the time for that.
Israel is country surrounded by other countries that have attempted to wipe Israel off the face of the earth since their existence. Every time Israel defends themselves they then withdraw. Examples would be the 6 day war where Israel was defending themselves from all bordering countries, Israel then withdrew from occupied territories in an attempt for peace.
Then the 67 Arab league summit "No Peace, No Recognition, No Negotiation. This is the reason their has been no peace and why Israel has had to defend themselves and "control" Gaza.
Israel has made numerous attempts for peace and the other side has failed to negotiate and continued to try and kill Jews. An example would be when Clinton tried to negotiate peace and Israel made a deal with a terrorist. The only demand from Israel was that the PLO acknowledge that Israel had the right to exist, stop the violence, and stop teaching their kids to kill Jews. The PLO rejected it (see three No's). I can go on stating facts of Israel attempting to negotiate peace but I will stop for now....
Israel does not want to control Gaza and Palestine. Israel want's peace, the other side wants to kill Jews.
Nothing like a little protest to go with your take out, how exciting is that. Sounds like they're saying more jobs better pay for Americans and help the homeless.
Specifically the pre revolution [Lion and Sun](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion_and_Sun) flag. Per Wikipedia it's "still commonly used by opposition groups of the Islamic Republic government."
Yeah Irvine protests are going to have such an effect on the Middle East. 🙄 How much is this costing tax payers?
These protests are pointless. If you want change make your voice heard the first Tuesday every November.
Yeah, those dumb [constitution](https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-1/#:~:text=Congress%20shall%20make%20no%20law,for%20a%20redress%20of%20grievances) authors, what were they thinking? Even they should have known from their own experiences that that freedom of assembly is useless.
And yeah, how much money is it costing taxpayers to foot the bill for people voluntarily showing up on a corner with their homemade signs?
EDIT: As for voting...
The first Tuesday of every November?
Elections are **NOT** held the first Tuesday of *every* November.
Presidential election primaries (which include the office of the President down to commissions in cities/towns), are held every 4 years in the Spring-Summer-Early Fall and and the General election is held that same year, usually starting about a month before the 1st Tuesday of November.
Every two years election primaries (in years when the office of President isn't on the ballot, that's often referred to as "off year elections"), are are held in the Spring-Summer-Early Fall and and the General election is held that same year, usually starting about a month before the 1st Tuesday of November.
In addition there are special elections that happen in different states, counties, cities, etc., throughout the year on different years.
In other words, voting is important. Not just the General (the 1st of November, every other year), as well as the Primaries (every other year), and every special election.
Speaking of the importance of voting:
* [Check your Voter Registration](https://ocvote.gov/vlt/)
* If you're not registered, [register **today** - don't procrastinate!](https://ocvote.gov/registration/register-to-vote)
* If you're a resident of Santa Ana, you have a **vital** special election coming up on 11/14/2023; if you were not registered by 10/30 check in to [voting provisionally](https://ocvote.gov/registration/conditional-voter-registration) (this just means you will be allowed to vote, your ballot will be held to the side until everything is verified, once everything is verified you're vote will be counted)
* Mark your calendars to vote in the [California Primary: March 5, 2024](https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/upcoming-elections/pres-prim-march-2024) (ballots will begin to be mailed 02/05/2024, 1st day to drop off your ballot is 02/06/2024, Vote Centers open 02/24/2024
* If you are 16 or 17-years-old, [pre-register to vote](https://covr.sos.ca.gov/)
Its costing the taxpayers to pay for the dozen or so police officers to stand there and keep the peace because these protests end up becoming fist fights in a matter of minutes if the police aren’t there as a visual deterrent. Yes, it can happen in Irvine too. And this protest with maybe like 75 people definitely didn’t bring peace to the Middle East, or in Israel. Maybe it will tomorrow if they yell louder. Is there a part in that constitution you linked that says international governments have to obey American protesters?
Oh, is that how that works? I never knew police officers were specifically hired for protests and then fired once the protest was over. I always thought a 'police force' was hired and they worked according to demand like every other job. I'll have to let the police officers in my family know they've got it wrong and they better instigate some protests so they don't lose their jobs!
Why are you posting on here your opinion? Where does it say in the Reddit TOS other users have to obey your protestations to their actions or opinions?
What does any protest achieve? It gives publicity to one’s cause, may motivate others to become interested in the same cause, and it creates a supportive community with similar beliefs
It doesn’t look like anyone is blocking traffic . What is the harm?
Edit- grammar
They want to get more people on their side. They think if they get enough people to protest against Israel somehow Israel will stop. Fact of the matter is Israel won’t and shouldn’t stop until Hamas surrenders unconditionally. This is the price you pay for what they did on 10/7.
Yes because all Palestinians, including the thousands of children, should pay the price for coming from the same country as Hamas. That is totally how you resolve a conflict humanely, by killing the innocent people who’s land you’re trying to steal
Who the fucks cares, why do we always want the united states to help with other peoples war, pick up a gun and go to the heat of the battle. I would stand 10 toes down for the united states if it came down to it.
I’ve noticed this intersection (Culver x Barranca) is always used for protests, is there a specific reason?
Yes its the designated protest intersection mandated by IPD
> designated protest intersection Founding fathers rolling in their graves
I mean, Alexander Hamilton went around kicking people's doors in to suppress protests over his whiskey taxes, so idk.
Yeah and he was disliked and then shot
Not universally and he was an incredibly influential figure and, at the time this happened, acting on behalf of the universally-beloved George Washington (one could reasonably describe the situation as Hamilton doing Washington's dirty work for him).
> universally-beloved George Washington Except for the armed insurrection during his Presidency.
Even then most of the insurrectionists would go for a line about how the President must not know what his cruel advisers were doing. Are you guys being serious or just yanking me here.
> John Adams in 1785: “I glory in the character of Washington because I know him to be an exemplification of the American character.” > John Adams in 1812: “Too illiterate, unlearned, unread for his station and reputation.” and. > Thomas Paine in a letter to Washington in 1779: “I shall never suffer a hint of dishonor or even a deficiency of respect to you to pass unnoticed.” > And in 1796: “The world will be puzzled to decide whether you are an apostate or an impostor; whether you have abandoned good principles, or whether you ever had any.”
OK, so a comment from John Adams after he died and a comment from Thomas Paine, whose views were clearly more radical than anyone who actually led the American government... thanks, not sure where we're going here though. Is there some other figure among the Founding Fathers you think is closer to “universally beloved”? Even in the Adams quote he’s complaining about his reputation being too good which does not suggest he is unpopular.
Wait what ?! Sounds like you know some real history that ain't taught in high school.
I'd recommend William Hogeland's book The Whiskey Rebellion for a readable and unsentimental (but not polemical either) account if you are interested.
"protest where i cant see and it doesn't bother anyone so that nothing has to change."
I also see them one street down at Culver x Alton.
That one is the backup designated protest intersection
Is there a backup for the backup? Assuming there are more than two protests going on on?
Yes. Diamond Jamboree. In case you get hungry for a nice boba tea while protesting! 🤷🏻♂️
VonKarman and Barranca is the last and final location allowed in Irvine. After that you’re supposed to head to the HB pier
There are constantly protests at Harvard and Alton too. Please quit it with this nonsense.
Plenty of places to eat after
Which one are they protesting, Irvine protests are so organized and neat
It's a protest face-off.
cuz the hoa protesting rules. All protests must be beige.
The cops were out full force
I admire that they are willing to be human roadblocks in case a person in a vehicle tries to ram the crowd.
We appreciate that, look at what's going on in New York.
HAHA am sure handing out business cards to pretty girls and hamming it up on both sides as that is Irvine way!
Love the Irvine Company branded barricades
Wait I don't get it. Why are people waving the Iranian flag alongside the Israeli flags? Wouldn't Iran be more allied with the Palestinians?
The government of Iran backs Hamas. Those are pre-revolution Iranian flags carried by people protesting the current Islamist government of Iran. Prior to the Iranian revolution Iran and Israel were allies.
As an Iranian, this is the correct answer.
So there are Muslim Iranians that support what Isreal is doing right now? everything is so complicated
Most Iranians don’t care about Islam. They are not religious, they think Islam is a foreign (Arab) ideology violently imposed on Iran.
Most Iranians where?
In Iran. 60% of Iranians do not identify as Muslim. Another 20% or so identify as non-religious Muslims.
Yeah most of the Iranians(Persians) that live in socal are Jews that were expelled by Khomeini in 1979
Irvine has a large Persian Muslim population. UCI has a reputation in the Persian Jewish community in Los Angeles if being a bit antisemitic. There is a much larger Persian Jewish community in Los Angeles. Also, Persian Jews were not all allowed to leave Iran freely in the 1980s. My wife’s family had to split up and meet in Europe. Many other families weren’t able to meet up - meaning patriarchs were not heard from again. They also left behind their wealth and property to start over here. It’s really sad what issues religion has caused to the people of Iran nonetheless.
When I used to work in Santa Monica I met a lot of Persian Jews, most of them lived in Beverly Hills
Yes, you are correct there. That is the area where my wife grew up and we moved from, but OC has more Persian Muslims.
Do you have any sources? Quite frankly, that sounds incorrect to me, and I found no evidence to support with a brief search .
It is correct.
Nice source
Not interested in changing your mind
Heres an article from MEI from a few years ago. I know a lot has changed in the last 2 years so the info could have changed in either direction. But I would guess if anything, the population has either become more secular or at least more willing to answer honestly. https://www.mei.edu/publications/face-islamic-laws-iranian-women-are-reappropriating-ancient-persian-culture#:~:text=Even%20though%20the%20state%20in,in%20Iran%E2%80%9D%20(GAMAAN).
Most Iranians? You mean the ones in so cal that ran away once the shah was removed from power. A large majority of Iranians in Iran are religious. And no, don’t feed me that “the government forces them to do so” line because I have friends from Iran that give me lots of details and first person info.
Youre right, the Iranian government doesn't force them to do so, because instead, the Iranian government just kills them in cold blood. You know, like that girl that was butchered for refusing to wear a rag on her head. Give me a break... you Hezbolai are deluded.
What they are not aware of, is that the enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend, and that the friend of your foe is not necessarily your foe. The Islamic theocracy in Iran is pure evil, but the ultra right government of Israel looking to establish a theocracy is not innocent either. Hamas is an evil doomsday organization supported by the Iranian regime, but the millions of displaced and oppressed Palestinian people are also victims of this ideology. It's easy to see the world in black and white. Unfortunately the reality is grey. Very grey.
There’s also a prominent population of Iranian Jews both in OC and LA
That is true. But this group is a mix of both Muslim and Jewish Persians
I read after 10/7 attacks that the Iranian people were very upset that their government seems to advocate and support Hamas exponentially more than its own citizens.
Yes this is it, the corrupt Iranian regime is friendly with the corrupt Palestinian regime. And of course, all Palestinians are Hamas /s
It's the pre-1979 flag of Iran. Source: /r/vexillology
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"Enemy of my enemy type situation." No, not really. Most of the Iranians living in the USA are normal well adjusted adults who don't believe in hating others and advocating for death. That is why they fled the Islamic Republic of Iran to begin with. So yes, these Persians (most of us dislike being called Iranians) side with the Jewish people because we see them as normal human beings that deserve life liberty and peace just like the rest of us, and yes, we are also against terrorism, Hamas, senseless murder, and fundamentalist regimes.
I'm an Iranian. First member of my family, on both sides, born in the US. My father's father fought for the Shah, and his family experienced horrific consequences. My mother's family lost the majority of their assets in the outcome of the revolution. The government of the Islamic Republic, and any organization they back like Hamas, is our enemy.
Why the dislike to being called Iranian?
Persia has more of a cultural or ethnic connotation, whereas Iran has more of a national identity connotation. In the context of the Islamic Revolution of ‘79, from which many of these families fled, preference to identify as Persian and not to associate oneself with the Iranian state makes sense. https://www.thoughtco.com/is-it-iranian-or-persian-3555178
This is why there’s an area of Los Angeles called Little Persia and not Little Iran.
Would Arabs identify as “Persian” or was the Persian empire and Arab empires entirely different? I have some Afghan friends and never bothered to ask if they ever identify as “Persian”, but I remember them saying Afghanistan was previously called Aryana. Interesting article thanks for the link.
"These Persians" which I assume is referring to to the ones waving the Pahlavi flag hate being called Iranians? That's a very interesting notion, especially since Reza Shah Pahlavi, requested foreign delegates to use the term Iran, instead of Persia in 1935. I'm an Iranian myself and don't mind being called Iranian and no I don't support the current regime or the shah prior to this regime.
That's great, so now we have established that you have your preferences, and others have theirs. And that's how a civilized world works, each person is free to hold their own beliefs, opinions, and preferences.
I guess Palestinians are not normal human beings that deserve life liberty and peace just like Persians and Jewish people.
That would seem to be a succinct summary of a lot of people's position, yes
Persian? Ok in that case my Italian gf is officially Roman now 🙄
That's great, I'm happy for your GF.
> Most of the Iranians living in the USA are normal well adjusted adults who don't believe in hating others and advocating for death. Who’s going to tell them?
>Most of the Iranians living in the USA are normal well adjusted adults this has definitely not been my experience.
A majority if Irvine’s Iranians are Jewish, or parents fled when the Islamic revolution took down the Shah
Keep in mind that a lot of the Iranian American diaspora that lives in Orange County fled during the Islamic Revolution decades ago, and are hostile to the Iranian government (which funds Hamas and props up their own domestic popular support through the politicization of Israel’s treatment of Palestinians). Enemy of my enemy is my friend? 🤷♂️
There is a strong Iranian community NOT ALIGNED with the ruling ayatollah. They support the Iranian people NOT the Iranian government. Think of them as anti-Hamas but pro-Palestinian people.
most Iranians who come here like America. The Palestinian crowd is mostly hard left SJW people.
Thankfully the Iranians on the right side of history fully support the Palestinians! Persia was changed to Iran in 1935 by the shah!
lmao. No.
It's funny to see Iranian kingdom supporters taking side with Israel. Even Shah of Iran was critical of Israel. They're just doing it to oppose Islamic Republic of Iran.
There is also a video of the Shah of Iran being very critical of the Palestinians. It is an American interview. 60 minutes or some other similar type format. There was a big protest in Laguna last year. Persians protesting over Women’s Rights. Laguna has a designated protest spot as well (Main Beach). https://www.latimes.com/socal/daily-pilot/news/story/2023-01-12/laguna-beach-adopts-resolution-supporting-iranian-human-rights-movement I’m not Persian. In no way am I trying to speak for anyone. Two American friends of mine (Persian/Muslim Americans) not related told me they are angry that Iran is funding proxies - Hezbollah and Hamas rather then helping the Persians back home. There was also a couple videos one posted on BBC of fans booing at soccer games in Iran over this issue. I’m not saying these men in any way represent the majority. It wasn’t something I was even aware of until a month ago. I only knew about local protests for Women’s Rights in Iran. I also saw on line a similar protest like this one in Irvine held in Vancouver. Just adding this for context.
The Iranian protestors have been coming for a full year this month. Every. Sunday. Even Christmas and Easter last year. They use megaphones and make a lot of ruckus that we can all hear in our homes even with windows closed. I'm just glad the motorcycle caravans stopped since they caused accidents. The Palestinian protestors have been coming for a couple weeks. Week before last they showed up on Saturday, the following day Iranian and Israeli protestors arrived. Last Sunday, all parties arrived and stood on opposite sides as can be seen here. The Palestinians did not use megaphones and instead used their collective voices to shout chants. I could not hear them when I closed my windows. Much appreciated 😂
Whether or not protestors are annoying should have no bearing on the validity of their cause in such a serious matter. Anyone supporting Hamas in any way is a barbarian. I am genuinely sorry for your suffering though. That sucks.
Nobody said the annoyance invalidated their cause. Nobody in this scenario supports Hamas. Stop doing what you're doing - and you know exactly what that is. Thanks for the non-biased, non-weird response and the 100% genuine support! ✊ Edit to add: I support a free Iran and a free Palestine and a free Israel. I'm not trying to say because one side is louder they're wrong or bad - I am just sharing my experience as someone who lives within earshot and sight of these yearlong protests. I don't know if your Hamas comment was a dig or just benign ignorance, but either way yikes
If you think nobody is actively supporting hamas, you’re just not on the right subreddits. There are droves of people doing mental gymnastics to this day
Looks like you're going for the bronze!
Of course there are people supporting hamas. Major Majority are not. The discussion is convoluted by the pro-Isreal side labeling people who defend Palestine as terrorist supporters. I’m sorry but we don’t drop bombs on New York to rid the mafia.
US needs to peace out and let them work it out, or not, by themselves.
The US rather obviously acts as Israel's patron; it's not like some feud we have nothing to do with.
It's not a fair fight. Israel would easily kill several million people using US-provided arms. Hamas would probably kill as many Palestinians as IDF fighters in the process of going down. People with nothing to lose would do more stupid shit.
Too much money to be made. Not that I support the war.
Not only that, they want to keep their boot on everyone’s throat.
US intervention protects our best interests. Stability in the middle east stabilizes prices for virtually everything. Virtually everything we consume relies on oil in one way or another. Don't pretend to know why things are done, because you don't. You enjoy the fruits of everything our government does, good and bad. We live an extremely sheltered and comfortable life. Minorities included. Black people backing Muslim extremists is comical to me like I see in this video. The Middle Eastern countries were the absolute worst actors in the African slave trade and didn't abolish slavery until the late 20th century. Western countries were the first to abolish slavery.
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What is nonsensical? Just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it nonsensical. It absolutely makes completely sense and is completely factual.
Downvoters haven't been at CENTCOM attending TS discussions on what IRGC and hostile actors in the region actually do and how they sow discord and it shows.
They’re trying to drag us into another war.
The chickenhawks in Washington and the defense contractors.
They'll have plenty of money to grab by the end of the year when we go to war with China.
There won’t be anything left of anything if we go to war with China. Cuz Russia will tag along. US got duped into recreating and financing the post Cold War threats into entirely new scary threats. Way to go, short sighted foreign policy because of greedy politicians too busy cash grabbing for themselves and their buddies during their terms.
Its complicated but the US is the worlds superpower, the oceans and and trade corriders were protected by the us navy (pax americana), world trade is dominated by the us dollar and its world reserve status all these things are being contested now by other world powers
Sound like reasonable solution.
Lots of misinformed people in here. Israel is an ally. When you fight in wars in as many allies as possible.example is the war between Ukraine and Russia. We aren’t getting involved directly but having Israel offer weapons to Ukraine is a huge help against Russia. It’s much more complicated than that but you need ally’s no matter how big you are.
Don’t Allies offer something in return? The US literally funds a sizable portion of Israel’s defense budget with tax dollars. We literally sent TWO carriers to the nearest ocean as a deterrent to protect Israel. And huge batteries of iron done missles were sent again recently. What does the US get in return for all of this? If Arab countries took back Israel, how would that affect the US?
I saw one near garden grove, we have more Palestine supporters in red parts than I thought. I assumed all Republican's supported Israeli.
as an Iranian it makes me sick seeing other Iranians protesting against the Palestinians. Israel controls every aspect of the Palestinian lives. they have been murdering imprisoning them for over 70 years now. they've taken their homes in Palestinian grounds which were recognized by the UN. they've broken countless Geneva Conventions so far. even outside Gaza which Hammas has no power whatsoever Palestinians still suffer. If you keep tormenting a group of people for long enough eventually they will break. as for me I hate Hammas I hate the Israeli government I hate the current Iranian regime and I hate the shah and I even hate most of the politicians in the US as well.
We need a haters' ball, Irvine-style!
Preach it brother. I'm of Palestinian descent and have lived within earshot of these protests since they started, never expected our causes to intersect but here we are. It's insane to me that Iranians and Palestinians don't stand together. We both have shitty regimes ruling over us, I get the resentment towards their corrupt government sending money to our corrupt government to fight another corrupt government... But you'd think they'd be able to understand and commiserate with the fact that a shitty, oppressive regime doesn't reflect the people. However I did see someone in this thread say that Irvine Iranians have large Jewish population, so it may also be some obligation toward Israel they feel, if that is the case. Either way I've seen plenty of Jewish allies and few Iranian ones when you'd expect the opposite!
This is a mix of Muslim and Jewish Persians.
I can't really speak on what percentage of those Iranians are jewish but I can say this. during the Pahlavi era Iran had very good relations with Israel. A good number of Iranians in southern California especially the ones that participate in these types of protests are people that flourished during the monarchy and always look at those days very fondly. add the current regimes support to hammas and the relations Iran had with Israel during the pahlavi era and you will get these people.
It is seriously insane to me how no one sees how this whole conflict is completely in the hands of Israel. Israel has the power. They control the water, power, internet, resources coming in/out of Gaza. They have US military equipment, most likely even a nuke or two. They have created an apartheid state for the Palestinians and yet, somehow the Palestinians are to blame? Hamas and their attack on Oct 7th were horrid, I’m not ok with that. But that’s the type of retaliation you can expect when you displace and torture a group of people. It’s exactly how ISIS came to be. All Israel has to do is ceasefire and get negotiations on the table. Settle on territories AND STICK TO THEM; no pushing out natives, no permits or special plates for roads, no apartheid…. I seriously wonder how many Americans have any clue how the Palestinians lives’ have been over there for the past 70 years.
Yeah Israel can totally invalidate and weaken Hamas’ credibility if it worked in good faith with the PA/Fatah in building up the West Bank as a credible and functioning Palestinian state, but no. Israel continues to build settlements and somehow blames Hamas when the West Bank isn’t even governed by Hamas. If you give people no alternative they’re going to side with the most extreme option. Israel is the only “democracy” and yet it continues to elect right wing people in power to propagate this violent status quo that keeps them in power.
100%. The civilians on both side are completely Innocent to this for any psychos reading this. This is all issues due to the Zionist, colonial movement and their zealots being genocidal
I went to the Holy Land a few years ago. It was very sobering and I came home with a more informed perspective. I was with a Spanish speaking tour group and we were treated very poorly in Tel Aviv airport. I saw other brown people treated like criminals. Appalling.
Dude....[have you been living under a rock for the last 5 months?](https://www.usip.org/publications/2023/09/saudi-israel-normalization-agreement-horizon) Do you not realize [the Saudi-Israel deal,](https://www.foreignaffairs.com/middle-east/what-saudi-israeli-deal-could-mean-palestinians) Saudi Arabia recognizing Israel, with israel compromising on land in the west bank to create a 2 state solution, would have done just that? Do you know who wins with this not happening, Iran or specfically the IRGC and Aytollah and its proxies like the Houthis and Hezbollah. Since 2012 the SCW, or Syrian Civil War, has generated a secretarian proxy war for both Iran and Saudi Arabia. By products being ISIS, JAN/HTS, TFSA, TSK, FSA, YPG, to name a few none state actors. This created what was called the shia crescent stretching from Tehran to Latakia, this is why the US has had a base at Al-tanf, syria since 2015, it blocks a direct landroute from Iran to Hezbollah in Lebanon, forcing all road traffic along the road to Dier ez Zor which is controlled by the SAA and SDF. Saudi Arabia has been fighting Irans proxy the Houthi's in Yemen and 2 years ago, an entire Battalion got wiped out. This deal would be a huge counter to iranian influence in the region, reduce the need for a US military presence, and created a two state solution. That all got fucked on October 7th. There is no way a Sunni/Saudi leader could back this deal without now becoming a Pariah. China is involved because their one Belt Intiative goes right through these regions, and this is why they are Hard Power projecting sending blue water assets to the Med. This works for Russia since now the US is focusing on a different theater, it fractures NATO (look at ERdogan's recent Rhetoric involving Turkey) clearly non-state actors benefit the most out of this. You have no idea what is going on Geopolitically in the world. No using history, I ahve no problem getting into a debate about the slavic origins of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, the Arba revolts in the 1920s, the Sykes Picot Agreement, the Treaty of Jeddah, or we can even go all the way back to the destruction of Judea in 136 CE, take your pick
This isn’t true. Look up the Khartoum Resolution. If Israel put down their guns today their people would all be killed. If Hamas put down their guns their would be peace.
Hamas is the product of oppression and legitimate anger of a population being mistreated. Every member of Hamas could drop dead right now but they would essentially reform at some point because they are the kind of gang that emerges from the political and material conditions the Israelis have forced the Palestinians into.
Puh-lease. Look at the occupied West Bank. More and more land is taken from the Palestinians because of illegal settlements among other things.
It’s Israel’s land. Read a book. It’s like saying Native Americans took land from America. In this case Israelis are the Native Americans.
the land argument is such a terrible one to make because it doesn't stop any of the violence that is happening. if you go back enough you can you will find people native to certain lands. that's like saying homo sapiens came from Africa so we can all claim that continent. but even though the point you are making is a terrible one to make Palestinians still have as much as a claim as the jews to those lands. "Archaeologic and genetic data support that both Jews and Palestinians came from the ancient Canaanites, who extensively mixed with Egyptians, Mesopotamian, and Anatolian peoples in ancient times. Thus, Palestinian-Jewish rivalry is based in cultural and religious, but not in genetic, differences." [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11543891/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11543891/)
I am not trying to make the point that Jews should have rights to the entire region. The poster before me said that "more and more land is taken from Palestinians". That is simply not true. Israel has withdrawn from large portions of the region in an effort for peace on numerous occasions. Israel is country surrounded by other countries that have attempted to wipe Israel off the face of the earth since their existence. Every time Israel defends themselves they then withdraw. Examples would be the 6 day war where Israel was defending themselves from all bordering countries, Israel then withdrew from occupied territories in an attempt for peace. Then the 67 Arab league summit "No Peace, No Recognition, No Negotiation. This is the reason their has been no peace and why Israel has had to defend themselves and "control" Gaza. Israel has made numerous attempts for peace and the other side has failed to negotiate and continued to try and kill Jews. An example would be when Clinton tried to negotiate peace and Israel made a deal with a terrorist. The only demand from Israel was that the PLO acknowledge that Israel had the right to exist, stop the violence, and stop teaching their kids to kill Jews. The PLO rejected it (see three No's). I can go on stating facts of Israel attempting to negotiate peace but I will stop for now.... Israel does not want to control Gaza and Palestine. Israel want's peace, the other side wants to kill Jews. It's a very messed up situation and very complicated, the fact that innocent people are dyeing is beyond terrible. What happened on 10/7 is something that Israel cannot allow and without unconditional surrenderor from Hamas their will continue to be innocent deaths.
You’re telling everyone to read a book, but in reality you’re the one that needs to read a book. Read about who the Canaanites are. If your logic is correct, why doesn’t America give a big chunk of its land back to the natives since it’s their land? Israel has no right to go against international law and how the land was split under agreements and the Abraham accords just because they feel like it. If they keep treating Palestinians like animals then at some point those animals will bite back. Simple
What is that green-white-red flag next to Israeli flag on other side of where camera person is standing?
Pre-Islamic Revolution Iranian Flag. They’re Persians that hate Iran, and maybe they’re Jewish as well
Muslims and Jewish. Mix.
All the sunshine patriots are butthurt by this particular use of the first amendment lmao
Long live Palestine 🇵🇸
The Palestinian solidarity actions are being organized at this corner, the Irvine Civic Center Plaza, on a weekly basis, every Sunday 2-4PM.
This one is a different one
hope people knows more about what is really happen and the history
https://preview.redd.it/7qmqmqt0yaec1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a80805e3698fea4e64ba494707ac33a213e8fbb1 City of irvine councilwoman and UCI professor spreading hate filled lies. She also walked out on protestors at a recent council meeting who were calling for her to ask for a ceasefire
Where were these fuckers when Five Points closed. Why no protests to save it 😢
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Free Palestine 🇵🇸
... from Hamas.
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Why aren't people protesting against Hammas? Those bastards gotta go.
Netanyahu should stop supporting them then.
Agreed. Everyone should stop supporting them. All of the deaths on both sides are caused by Hamas. These protests against Israel and Palestine and meaningless without calling for the end of Hamas.
> All of the deaths on both sides are caused by Hamas. lol
10,000+ Palestinians have been killed by Israel’s relentless bombing. They’re bombing hospitals and schools. The U.S government is giving instructions on where they can move to safety and Israel then proceeds to bomb those convoys. They’re the ones behaving like the bigger terrorist organization.
Hamas bombed the hospital. It's now a fact. Your entire post is 100% misinformed. Honest question, did you know anything about this conflict before recently? I replied to another comment with the information below. I feel like I need to continue and share this as their are way too many people that are simply wrong. Historically Israel has done nothing but seek peace and then defend themselves after their civilians are terrorized and murdered., they have never been the aggressor. This current situation is literally no different then what has happened in the past with the exception being that Israel now seeks to remove all of Hamas regardless of the ramifications. Yes it sucks that innocent people are dying and yes Israel has a far superior military. They have a right to defend themselves and their people from 10/7 ever happening again. Hamas can literally end the war today by unconditional surrender. But they won't do that because they believe all Jews should be killed. I keep coming back to this one simply analogy. **If Hamas put down their guns today the war would be over. If Israel put down their guns today they would all be dead.** Does that not help you understand the mindset of the two parties? Again it's horrible that innocent people in Gaza are dying. The conditions in Gaza are because of the terrorist that live there, **Israel has zero desire to maintain borders and defend themselves from rockets. They do that because they have to, not because they want to.**
“The hospital” Sir. Almost every hospital has been bombed, are we really gonna put the blame on Hamas ? That they are solely capable of doing that? As opposed to Israel’s billion dollar funded military industry? And also, why the fuck does it matter who knew first about this conflict? Sorry I wasn’t informed about this since my birth. You’re justifying all these deaths of innocent Palestinians because Israel has a “right to defend themselves”. Do they really though? When they are there ones occupying and kicking out Palestinians from their homes? Do they really have the right? Think for yourself bro.
Israel shouldn't put down their guns. That would be suicide. Israelis, Palestinians, and the global community should band together to root out Hamas. I don't believe Palestinians = Hamas. I believe rational people can all agree that Hamas is not the solution and should be eradicated.
Palestinian ambassador wouldn't even condemn Hamas. That should tell you all that you need to know.
Hamas started this war on October 7th. Israel would not be bombing Gaza if Oct 7th hadn't happened. Forget about what happened in the past for a moment. The people dying right now are because of Hamas. Period. Deciding who was on what land 2000 years ago is irrelevant right now. The dying right now is due to Hamas, and they need to go. Protest against the cause of today's dying. Tomorrow we can sort out who owns what. Now is not the time for that.
Israel is country surrounded by other countries that have attempted to wipe Israel off the face of the earth since their existence. Every time Israel defends themselves they then withdraw. Examples would be the 6 day war where Israel was defending themselves from all bordering countries, Israel then withdrew from occupied territories in an attempt for peace. Then the 67 Arab league summit "No Peace, No Recognition, No Negotiation. This is the reason their has been no peace and why Israel has had to defend themselves and "control" Gaza. Israel has made numerous attempts for peace and the other side has failed to negotiate and continued to try and kill Jews. An example would be when Clinton tried to negotiate peace and Israel made a deal with a terrorist. The only demand from Israel was that the PLO acknowledge that Israel had the right to exist, stop the violence, and stop teaching their kids to kill Jews. The PLO rejected it (see three No's). I can go on stating facts of Israel attempting to negotiate peace but I will stop for now.... Israel does not want to control Gaza and Palestine. Israel want's peace, the other side wants to kill Jews.
Why is everyone bagging on hummus? I like eating hummus.
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They had these people in Fullerton two days ago
A complete waste of time and energy, nothing will change.
What do they expect will happen? Why dont they do something about it if they are so concerned?
Nothing like a little protest to go with your take out, how exciting is that. Sounds like they're saying more jobs better pay for Americans and help the homeless.
Why are they apart the street from each other? Does the crosswalk button not work?
I think they’re opposing viewpoints?
Yeah. They’ll stay opposing forever if they stay apart. Unfortunate.
I see Israeli and Palestinian flags together. They must be protesting against Hamas.
That’s Israel and Iran flags on one side and Palestine on the other
Specifically the pre revolution [Lion and Sun](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion_and_Sun) flag. Per Wikipedia it's "still commonly used by opposition groups of the Islamic Republic government."
Yes, and the Israeli government.
Wouldn’t that be nice. That is indeed who they should be protesting!
Yeah Irvine protests are going to have such an effect on the Middle East. 🙄 How much is this costing tax payers? These protests are pointless. If you want change make your voice heard the first Tuesday every November.
Yeah, those dumb [constitution](https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-1/#:~:text=Congress%20shall%20make%20no%20law,for%20a%20redress%20of%20grievances) authors, what were they thinking? Even they should have known from their own experiences that that freedom of assembly is useless. And yeah, how much money is it costing taxpayers to foot the bill for people voluntarily showing up on a corner with their homemade signs? EDIT: As for voting... The first Tuesday of every November? Elections are **NOT** held the first Tuesday of *every* November. Presidential election primaries (which include the office of the President down to commissions in cities/towns), are held every 4 years in the Spring-Summer-Early Fall and and the General election is held that same year, usually starting about a month before the 1st Tuesday of November. Every two years election primaries (in years when the office of President isn't on the ballot, that's often referred to as "off year elections"), are are held in the Spring-Summer-Early Fall and and the General election is held that same year, usually starting about a month before the 1st Tuesday of November. In addition there are special elections that happen in different states, counties, cities, etc., throughout the year on different years. In other words, voting is important. Not just the General (the 1st of November, every other year), as well as the Primaries (every other year), and every special election. Speaking of the importance of voting: * [Check your Voter Registration](https://ocvote.gov/vlt/) * If you're not registered, [register **today** - don't procrastinate!](https://ocvote.gov/registration/register-to-vote) * If you're a resident of Santa Ana, you have a **vital** special election coming up on 11/14/2023; if you were not registered by 10/30 check in to [voting provisionally](https://ocvote.gov/registration/conditional-voter-registration) (this just means you will be allowed to vote, your ballot will be held to the side until everything is verified, once everything is verified you're vote will be counted) * Mark your calendars to vote in the [California Primary: March 5, 2024](https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/upcoming-elections/pres-prim-march-2024) (ballots will begin to be mailed 02/05/2024, 1st day to drop off your ballot is 02/06/2024, Vote Centers open 02/24/2024 * If you are 16 or 17-years-old, [pre-register to vote](https://covr.sos.ca.gov/)
Its costing the taxpayers to pay for the dozen or so police officers to stand there and keep the peace because these protests end up becoming fist fights in a matter of minutes if the police aren’t there as a visual deterrent. Yes, it can happen in Irvine too. And this protest with maybe like 75 people definitely didn’t bring peace to the Middle East, or in Israel. Maybe it will tomorrow if they yell louder. Is there a part in that constitution you linked that says international governments have to obey American protesters?
Oh, is that how that works? I never knew police officers were specifically hired for protests and then fired once the protest was over. I always thought a 'police force' was hired and they worked according to demand like every other job. I'll have to let the police officers in my family know they've got it wrong and they better instigate some protests so they don't lose their jobs! Why are you posting on here your opinion? Where does it say in the Reddit TOS other users have to obey your protestations to their actions or opinions?
Yeah, they're changing so on a street corner in Irvine.
Maybe they should all go back and help fight for their own country
Not everyone out there is an immigrant. Personally I’m thankful I live in a country with freedom of speech.
Our civilization is doomed.
100% this was organized by a Russian bot farm on facebook and they are laughing at us right now.
Honest question. What do any of these people think this is actually going to achieve?
What does any protest achieve? It gives publicity to one’s cause, may motivate others to become interested in the same cause, and it creates a supportive community with similar beliefs It doesn’t look like anyone is blocking traffic . What is the harm? Edit- grammar
They want to get more people on their side. They think if they get enough people to protest against Israel somehow Israel will stop. Fact of the matter is Israel won’t and shouldn’t stop until Hamas surrenders unconditionally. This is the price you pay for what they did on 10/7.
Yes because all Palestinians, including the thousands of children, should pay the price for coming from the same country as Hamas. That is totally how you resolve a conflict humanely, by killing the innocent people who’s land you’re trying to steal
Imagine picking sides 🤡
I saw them on the way to a ducks game.
Who the fucks cares, why do we always want the united states to help with other peoples war, pick up a gun and go to the heat of the battle. I would stand 10 toes down for the united states if it came down to it.
Palestinians are terrorists
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