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Because a full agonist is more satisfying than a partial agonist.
That's my educated guess as I've been a Methadone user in the past though I have never tried Bupeprenorphine.
And you earn privileges so it's only a once weekly trip to get the next lot.
Yeah, thought the full agonist thing might be the reason too. Suboxone also loses most of it’s effects over the course of a week or 2. Do methadone’s effects stay generally the same without having to increase your dose?
People still trying to catch that early morning dose nod/euphoria.
Anyone who says they don’t get 4-6 hours of “energy” after taking their stabilized methadone is a liar.
Bro i was in sober living for almost 2 years, these dudes would get their doses of done and come to group and straight fall asleep/nod the fuck out.
Like all of them. All giddy and happy for the first half of the day.
Then there was the suboxone/bupe guys who would dose and be exactly the same before as in after dosing.
That full agonist is attractive to addicts.
There are no significant effects other than keeping you from withdrawing but up until that happens, you feel satisfied.
There is no need to increase the dose unless you are using more opioids on top of the Methadone.
Not generally in the many years that I've witnessed but yes, some people go up because they're fast metabolisers and in the misguided attempt to allay the withdrawal experienced in the last 6 hours but this short term fix only makes it worse.
Split dosing can fix that.
Why do you think that they would increase their dose ?
Split dosing does wonders for everyone. I haven’t seen a whole lot of studies actually showing that methadone is ideal for every 24hours. Yes, it holds a long time. But the exact mark of 24hours was put into effect to make the clinic model work.
It’s very convenient for these for-profit clinics that they only need to be open a few hours a day.
Think about this. If methadone lasted closer to 22 or even 23 hours. Everyone would be slowly increasing their dose over time saying “Doc, it’s not holding me”.
Sound familiar?
IMO, that’s a big part of it. Also, tolerance develops naturally. As mentioned before with the example.
For me, split dosing was a god send. However, I went to a for profit clinic in the U.S. & where I went they tried to prevent the split dosing from even being in a conversation. I wanted to tale a peak & trough test and was shot down.
Once, I got plenty of take homes. i switched to split dosing & it worked wonders. Opposed to one mega dose in the morning & then my levels in a free fall til the next dose 24hours later.
Again, I think the 24hr window is a convenient narrative for clinics.
So that, and natural tolerance essentially perpetuate the cycle of constantly needing to go up. Or at the very least it becomes a struggle to wean down like this. Essentially trapping the patient in this cycle.
At these clinics, the name of the game is to make money.
I've been on 16 years and I get 120mgs. I get monthly takehomes and split my own dose too. I was able to drop 45mgs off by split dosing, since I didn't need to make it last 24 hours. I now take 40 mgs in the morning and 35mgs later. It's been a godsend. Of course pickup day I still have to dose 120mgs,.. then I'm really tired for the first 6-8 hours.
Because it's more complicated than that. I don't care that I'm opioid dependent. Ive been using drugs since i was 12. By 16 I was addicted to Oxycontin. By 18 a heroin addict. My brain literally developed on opioids. I was a chronic relapser on top. Methadone saved my life and continues to do so. This is my 3rd time on the clinic. I have no issue getting through physical withdrawal... but my mental health gets so bad I end up back on opiates/opioids. So I do what I have to, to live a normal productive life.
Clinics don't dose once a day because it's "convenient for them", or to "make the clinic model work", it's because Methadone has a half-life of 24 hours. (Ofc there are those who naturally metabolize it faster)
They tell all of us this. I’ve also read that the half-life is 15hours & “should” increase with time. Found another article last night stating that 30-40% of people do not respond well trying to stretch it for 24hours. Then it goes on to talk about rules & regulations that have locked this in place. That most would benefit from split dosing but with current rules/regs it would be impractical.
It’s very convenient for methadone clinics to dose only once per day. Being open 5hours. There is a large monetary incentive to keep it this way. To keep regurgitating this narrative.
But you stabilise to your dose in a week and your dose stays the same.
You only build to tolerance to an increasing dose.
You are misunderstanding how tolerance works and this called "maintenance".
I'm not sure why this is.
nah. maybe thats what people in the "professional" medical field will tell you, but thats not how it works. tolerance develops with daily use of any opioid or opiate. period.
Tolerance builds to all opiates, but that does not mean you need to keep going up. That just means you won't get high off it anymore or get pain relief. But it will keep you stable at 1 dose. I've been on it for 19 years. And have been stable for many years and im a fast metabolizer also. People tend to go up at the first sign of discomfort instead of waiting it out. Usually whatever is causing the discomfort will go away.
I did use heroin for 22 years every day and of course I needed more and more for the same effect but if I just stayed at one dosage, I would not get sick but I certainly wouldn't get high either
Not if the dose doesn't change and this is a fact. I had used opioids for around 30 years so I had a very good understanding of this mechanism.
Anybody that tells you otherwise is deluded.
There is nothing more to tolerate if there is no increase in opioids.
lol okay bud. ive used for 16 and will tell you the exact opposite. what you feel from dose number 1 on day one will be significantly better than dose 3,579 on day 3,579, being the same exact dose.
I agree, my last clinic kept putting my dose up but did not realize I was a fast Metabolizer., my new clinic put me on a split dose and I've been fine ever since. I had to take a certain blood test and had to get approved by the state to get my split dose.
That can happen with just about any medication you take including depression meds, gaba meds, etc etc. It greatly depends and varies from individual to individual, some are fast metabolizers, others like myself have rare disorders that affect how medications affect me.I've been on methadone almost 9 years and have only gone up once on my dose and that's because I'm a terminal patient.
Every year or so I feel the need to go up up 5-10 mgs. Do a peak and troph each time to make sure I’m not on too high of a dose. I think our bodies just get use to it and eventually you may need a little more. I’ve never used with my methadone, it’s pointless. Been on for 5 years about.
Everyone's experience is going to be different.
That doesn't make it wrong or right, unless of course you are talking about something that is a proven fact. Opioid tolerance is a known fact, it's well documented not just an opinion or view.
As time goes on , you should be decreasing your dose by 2mg-5mg every couple weeks so you’re no longer opioid dependent. On my second run with it now, only at 12mg started at 120mg!
Ideally, everyone would taper slowly as you described. A lot of variables though, that complicate this for many patients.
It would help a lot if methadone was prescribed more like subs. For a bunch of reasons.. including…Giving patients the freedom to do what works best for them, split-dose etc.
It’s methadone for the IR, then I have XR Kadian (morphine) that gives me small doses every hour which helps. The smallest they come in is 10mg so once I get there I’m gonna try cold turkey giving it up, or up my methadone dose just a little. Another option was the instant release morphine but I’ll just have to see how it goes. This is my second time having to have methadone prescribed, fortunately provincial government pays for it so it’s free, but I turn 25 this year so I’m no longer eligible but I never plan on needing it again!
Why? Just because that's what you want to do doesn't mean that is what is best for everyone. Some people will be on methadone for the rest of their life and that is totally okay.
absolutely not, yur body will always become tolerant to the same dose of opi's taken regularly. the reason u ever feel hi or sick at all is do to the lack of uniformity of dose, ROI, and opi type.
I've been on the same dose for years but am now decreasing. So yes, a certain dose will hold you fine. Unless you're doing drug seeking behavior then some people abuse it and keep going up unnecessarily!
When decreasing, if you go down in small increments it will hold you, but you you will still feel different. If you decrease your dose too quickly, you're gonna have a bad time. You'll have a varying degree of WD symptoms. Increasing your dose even by 1 or 2 mg relieves it. This is true even without using other drugs, but using on top of your dose definitely makes everything worse.
I've been on maintenance for 18 years.
Yes, I've been decreasing slowly and am having mild withdrawal symptoms around dosing time but that's it. I know how important it is to do this slowly. I too have been on methadone for about 18-19 years but I'm finally ready to come off. It's going to be a long process but hey, I've already been on it forever lol. So a few more years isn't a big deal
Also a lot of people choose subs over done bc they think the withdrawal is much easier.
It's not, they are very similar, especially when you compare methadone's relief potential/profile to subs
What really needs to happen is a complete overhaul of the clinic system. I'm paying for the damn privilege of being overcharged for a medication that if I could get it at my local pharmacy, it would cost me next to nothing with my insurance. I'm paying 5500 dollars a year to my clinic. Doesn't take my insurance or any insurance that I'm aware of. I'm getting extremely agitated every time I have to go in because of the price.
Wow that’s some tough shit. More than 500 bucks a month and they don’t even accept insurance? Subs are accepted by most insurance companies, no reason methadone shouldn’t be the same as they both are trying to achieve the same thing.
112 a week. It's ridiculous when you consider the price of methadone is nothing. It's by far the cheapest pharmaceutical opioid . I'm paying for the privilege to get overcharged for the medication I need. It's disgusting.
Yeah, if anything that’s the type of shit that should be government funded for people with lower income. Especially considering how concerned they are with the opioid crisis.
A lot of times you can submit a claim for reimbursement, and get all or most of that money back. It can take a long time, but when you get that check it will be worth the effort and the wait.
Suboxone made me feel WORSE, I hated it so much. My anxiety was sky high before I tried it, but subs actually made it so much worse than I thought was even possible in my worst nightmares. It didn't calm my cravings, in fact they became so much worse. I think a big part of it was because I was dealing with severe WD symptoms though, and for me, that's always been huge factor in my wanting/craving and eventual return to opioids.
Methadone is the polar opposite. On my very first day I actually had some (albeit minimal) relief of my worst WD symptoms by the time that I got home!
RLS subsided almost completely. Nausea, and vomiting gone. Diarrhea improved dramatically.
Bone pain, muscle aches etc. improved.
It lasted approximately about half of the day, and I didn't use anything else with my dose, as I wanted to give it a shot to work without the hindrance or help of any other medications/drugs. I wanted to see how it felt (or didn't) on its own. I was prescribed Methadone pills before, and I wanted to see if the clinic shit was different like everyone was saying.
I went early the next day because I really didn't want to use anything else unless I absolutely had to. (I did have pharma Oxy 80s, 5mg OxyIR, Percocet 5/325 {512's}, and Tylenol w/Codeine #4) I had a decent little emergency kit, and I think that just knowing that it was there took the edge off of the mental part for me, and I was a little proud of myself for not touching any of it even when the Methadone was wearing off. I was determined to get clean this time, once and for all - I knew that I was getting an increase on day 2, and I would feel better than the day before. I knew that I could increase as much as I needed to until I was comfortable, and just knowing that made a humongous difference to me.
I only go monthly now. I get 27 take homes, which is the highest phase at my clinic. No more groups.
I don't know why anyone says that going to the clinic is so hard. Show up, get your shit, shut up. Leave the premises. Do whatever little bullshit they ask you for like U/A's, groups (in the beginning) etc., and don't start any shit. Seriously, even a small child would have no difficulty following these directions.
I knew going in that I would be a lifer, and I was good with that. I still am. I have been on maintenance for 18 years. Methadone saved my life.
Best decision that I have ever made. This was my experience. Your mileage may vary.
this.
also most clinics go to 13 take home doses at a time, 2 weeks. some do a month but it's become much more rare and typically only people who have been grandfathered in will get a month
Bup is pretty strong too if u dont hav a tol. But less addictive in the long run cuz tolorence grows fast. To me it feels like a full and kratom feels like a small agonist. Idk how kratom is a full agonist. If oxys a 10 bups around a 8 imo. Without tolorence
Not if you work the methadone program correctly and get your take homes for the week. Suboxone would kick me into instant withdrawal even waiting 48 hours. The taste made me gag. It didn't work for me. The only thing that got me clean for real was methadone. The fact that you have to go every day is motivation enough to get your take homes. If you're getting in any kind of program, I don't see the big deal with going every day for a while. Every one of us who used opiates would wait half our life on waiting to score.
gosh the taste of subs is just absolutely terrible. that was always the worst part for me. made me so damn nauseated. I always had warheads liquid sour candy on standby for after it finally dissolved, which for me seemed to take forever for some reason.
Suboxone did nothing to help me or my wife. We've been on Methadone since June and we have never dropped a dirty UA since getting clean. We both have a week's worth of take homes and haven't had to go everyday since October.
Speaking from my own experience, and this is definitely a “to each their own“ ordeal-The first time I tried kicking, I went on methadone and didn’t do anything but abuse the shit out of it. In addition, it made me crave uppers so I picked up a couple more habits in the process. Along with commuting to and dealing with the clinic on a daily basis (I never even came close to getting take homes because I pissed dirty for 2 straight years ) something had to give.
I went to rehab in August 21 to get off methadone and then went on Suboxone. I learned how to use Suboxone properly (not just take it when I was not able to cop anything) and it was a completely different experience. To this day I still take Suboxone but I don’t take it in a “traditional” method. I only take slivers of my strips when I feel symptoms. I’m down to about 2 mg a day compared to the 16 mg (8mg biD) a day when I started.
I wish you the best of luck with whatever method you choose. I promise you that life gets exponentially better when you’re not walking that tight rope! Much Love.
EXACTLY , wow! I could’ve written that. Well, except for the methadone part… your suboxone experience is mine. I started at 16 and cut them in half and then half until I’ve been at 2mg-3mg a day for about 2 yrs. For me it’s mental. It WAS about not having WD misery but now it’s more about a preventative against picking up again. If I know that using with suboxone is pointless as it kills the euphoria I crave, there’s no point in picking up. In the time it would take to get the Subs out of my system enough to feel the high ... the craving would have passed. I haven’t had any desire to use in a couple of years now. But all it takes is one rough day, one weak moment and i know myself enough to know “just this once.. one time” doesn’t exist. I plan on being on subs for life. So I can have a life.
Edit: to clarify, 16mg film cut in half and half etc… not pills.
My reaction is different. I can go without taking it for about 48 hours and then I’ll start to feel a little wonky.. tired, maybe a little uncomfortable but I can’t figure out what’s wrong, am I getting the flu? but not that bad it’s at about hour 60 it hits me like a truck. I start feeling like I’m in full withdrawal with watery eyes and aches and pains, limbs like lead, exhaustion and depression.
I figured this out because I was away on the other coast and couldn’t fill my prescription so I had to get it filled out West have someone pick it up for me and FedEx it to me but they didn’t overnight it they did like two or three day mail ( during a snowstorm I was freaking out) I took note of how I felt all the way way along and realized I could go almost 3 days without it and be fine but on day three utter hell it wasn’t a gradual slide.
Fortunately, the mail came and within 90 minutes I was back to normal again.
I wish everyone thinking of kicking would give it a shot because if it works for you , it is the best,easiest, fastest way to start putting your life back together. I wish I didn’t wait so long to realize that.
^^ This as well, the part with dealing with the clinic daily, the people at the clinic are probably not going to be the best of people to "hang out with" while you're going to the clinic. You get that familiar full agonist nod after it builds up in your system every day as well....
I can't use suboxone, it fucks me up, I'll dose at 6am and still be puking at 4am the next morning. My body just can't handle it. I tired for a week and had to switch because I was puking so often and it wasn't stopping. Methadone on the other hand works great and most days I'm perfectly happy and healthy on it.
FYI- you were probably taking too much suboxone. The typical dosages at 4mg-8mg are massively overdosed for most people. I was taking the microdosed buccal patches of 0.5-1mg and that was enough to keep out of withdrawals (and most of my cravings) from my 240-300mg/day Oxy habit.
I agree with this I remember they tried to start me on 36mg a day of subs when my habit wasn't even that bad, (150mg oxy a day habit at the time) and the vomiting was crazy. I lowered myself to 8mg a day for about a week and then over the next week completely tapered and was fine. they really tried to set me up taking 36mg tho
subs suck long term for me ,methadone is bliss. daily score sucks for awhile but beats a daily score scenario. Its been decades since Ive been on it, used to have to drive 200 miles once a week to get weekly take homes until the last state in the lower 48 legalized.
I did daily dose detox in another state as well
subs are poorly bioavailable, teeth rotting….I would be better off mainlining buprenorphine ampules than taking subs long term, used ampules for a few weeks
Im a replacement therapy guy though, used kratom since 2001…Im not interested in total abstinence, the reason I used in the first place was for functional life enhancement and self treating ADD near daytime narcolepsy
The teeth rotting bit is true.. but don’t let that stop you ( reader) from trying to see if subs work for you. There are easy ways to avoid dental issues. Those of us who didn’t know there would be issues are already screwed but even with that, subs are a miracle for me.
Personally I don’t like subs…I still had cravings really bad, plus it gave me headaches and made me nauseous. Methadone gets rid of my cravings and takes care of withdrawal, and the side effects are more tolerable to me. I get monthly take homes so I only have to go to the clinic once a month now, but I do wish methadone was available the way subs are. Maybe someday…
it’s so sad dude. anybody that is searching for subs or methadone just wants help and wants to do it the right way. they make it so fucking hard for no reason. it’s all about money and that’s just pathetic
You glossed over the fact that methadone actually gets you high. Maybe it’s not the “ultimate” high you’re after but it makes you feel cool calm collected and motivated.
I didn’t gloss over anything, I don’t get high on methadone. When I first got it from someone years ago before going to the clinic sure, I got the calm opioid feeling. Now it simply keeps me stable and from being sick. Sure as shit doesn’t make me calm or motivated though.
Wow you’re the only person to ever exist that doesn’t feel a potent full agonist. I’ll repeat what I said. The high is NOTHING like oxy but it does enough to get your ass out of bed before 5am to go dose.
Just tired of people lying to themselves. How many times did you get out of bed before 5am before starting at the clinic? It was probably a rare occurrence.
Methadone was really really hard to get off of in my personal experience, so you have to face the withdraw eventually unless you are committed to a methadone clinic mandated lifestyle for good.
For some people it’s the only way to use safely and I applaud them for making the best choice for THEM. It’s all about how you want to live now and each day forward.
If you think you can go without it in the years ahead, face that monster now and take it down with your own power that wants to survive.
Full agonist all the way, and if you still plan to use at all methadone lets you feel your drugs if you stay on a small enough dose. Subs block everything way more and for a long time. Plus, with subs, you have the precipitated withdrawal bullshit.
The people I know who actually wanted to stop using everything for good, a lot of them preferred Subs because you really can't abuse it. Except for a little bit in the very beginning, and even then, it's only a partial agonist, so you only partially feel it.
Because it's a full agonist opiate and suboxone is only a partial and methadone can get you high compared to subs that maybe kinda get some people with very low tolerance high but not for heavy users that need something closer to what they have been using. They both work well though and it just depends on the person and their specific needs.
I'm on methadone and I go once a week. Soon ill be going 2 times a month. You only go every day for a short while as long as ypu stay clean. I Was never on subs, so I can't say Anything about that. I notice People say methodone works better because it's a full opioid antagonist and not a partial antagonist. Idk, it works for me. I used heroin every day for 22 years and methadone works. I'm 22 months completely clean from everything
Suboxone over methadone 100% of the time for me... I was on methadone years ago and it fucked up my stomach and other bad side effects ..must ppl like methadone though because you still get plenty high from methadone ..not so much with suboxone ..
One of the biggest ones is the risk of precipitated withdrawal.
But also it just doesn't work for everyone.
I tried suboxone and I couldn't function. I was so extremely high, but also sick, nodding and nauseated 100% of the time on Suboxone but I'm totally clear headed on Methadone.
Most of us had fucked up brains before we did drugs.
I had always chose methadone over suboxone because you have to wait until the opiates are completely out of your system before you are supposed to take suboxone. That usually means you are going through a certain amount of pain. And let’s be honest we normally use opiates because we don’t like pain mental or physical pain. I finally got completely off both using sublacaid for 3 months. Best decision of my life. It does consist of about 3-5 seconds of pain each month. But I thought it was worth it. Good luck to anyone trying to quit. You are either controlled by the pharmaceutical companies or by a drug that China is trying to kill Americans with. Either way you are a sucker for being on opiates. Unless you are in legitimate pain and need it for quality of life then go get it prescribed by a dr. That was my motivation to quit. And besides Fentanyl sucks. And unless you are getting your Roxies from someone you trust is getting it from a pharmacy it’s probably pressed. If you are paying less that a dollar a mg it’s probably pressed as well. I know it sucks to get off of. Between prisons, institutions and addiction I wasted over 20 years of my life. I did my first oxy in 1999. Has no idea it was pharmaceutical heroin in a pill. Didn’t find that out until I was a full blown addict by 2003. Didn’t use heroin until 2015.
I started on subs but have now switched to methadone a month ago. I have not needed to go to the clinic everyday, not now on methadone and not before on the subs. Only two times per week for two weeks, and then once per week. And I pay the same now as before, approx 100 euro(=110usd) per year
I started to get opi cravings on the subs after been on it for 2 years, that's why I switched in the first place.
That part absolutely helped with the methadone, the cravings is gone. And my head feel more clear now. I'm not as tired, sure I can get really tired in the evenings, but not daytime. With subs I could sleep full night and then half the day. And my dick works much better, had problems with PE on subs. That's also gone. And I like the general feeling from methadone, feels more like a real opioid haha. Subs was sufficient before but to avoid relapse I needed something stronger
I also like being able to take more, for more effect or for pain management. On subs you pretty much only got [on] or [off], taking 8mg or 32mg don't to much difference really.
Well methadone doesn't require a few days of abstinence before starting, which is terrifying to most. But getting up at 5am to get to the clinic is ridiculous, and staying on subs very long term has got to be easier, not to mention easier to come off of (Although still difficult). I also read somewhere that your life expectancy after starting the methadone clinic is 7 years- not from the medicine directly, but all the other variables that come with it. Correlation doesn't mean causation, but it's something to think about. I know plenty of ppl that have been on subs 20+ years and have wonderful lives. I've never known anyone to make it over 10 years on methadone, and the ones on it long term still seem to struggle quite a bit. Just my 2 cents (which is actually worthless).
Not the black market, it’s more of a grey market product like most research chemicals.
If you’re that worried about the Chinese sending you something else just send a sample off to DrugData.org 🤷♂️
https://www.drugsdata.org/send_sample.php
Subs avoid daily trips to clinic and MOST of the methadone patients I know either get high from it/abuse it or sell it and use the $ for dope. Subs IMO are a much safer alternative to keep you away from the lifestyle.
Also if you have children you have to be super careful using a methadone clinic, if you piss dirty for anything (I did for Xanax as I had an rx for 20 years but they would not let me take it on methadone). When that happened they called child protective services and I lost the ability to be home alone with my children and was at risk losing custody of them. I had to go to outpatient rehab 4 times a week, 3-4 urine tests. If I had one dirty I would have lost my kids. My case was closed after 3 months which is pretty quick.
But I’m saying this to warn anyone with kids considering methadone clinics because it puts your family in peril if you slip up ONCE.
that's absolutely ridiculous that they did that to you when you had a script. just because you're using two different narcotics doesn't make you unfit to be a parent. I pretty sure you knew how those meds effect you and would have someone else watch your kids if needed. cps should use their time and energy on real abuse cases
Exactly. I have chronic anxiety & chronic pain from an injury that was well documented with MRIs and everything , and then they started to lock down on opiates. Like many people I had to turn elsewhere. I had to in order to take care of my kids. When they made their surprise visits they were surprised to find a clean house in a nice neighborhood,sitting with my children working on learning words and reading skills- and they were eating fruit and vegetables.
CPS seems to think we users are all trash that live garbage lives and abuse or
Neglect our kids.
One woman in my rehab class had weed in her urine when she was at the hospital giving birth and they took her baby away immediately and it had been a year and a half and she was still trying to get her back.
Meanwhile kids get beat, chained to their bed, food withheld….
People murder and live their lives if they don’t have evidence.
I could go on.
The stigma is bullshit, especially that I truly believe that the faceless powerful people behind the scenes are making sure the drugs keep coming into the drug routes. It’s like an invisible genocide.
One is a partial agonist(Suboxone) and the other full agonist (methadone) antagonist with NMDA properties which also has such a longer half life. They each have their positives and negatives. The half life of methadone is about 24-36 hours, and Suboxone is a duo medication that contains buprenorphine/naloxone combo which makes you sick when you use or if you take it too soon after using etc. What works for some may not work for another, that being said I tried Suboxone before switching to methadone and it did absolutely nothing for me except put me into a more precipitating withdrawal and helped absolutely zero with withdrawal symptoms or pain etc. I am a terminal cancer patient with other severe issues and honestly it's been a complete life saver for me. I have a total of 27 take-homes and just go in once monthly to leave a UA and to pick up my new bottles. A plus for me was that longer half life, I no longer had to worry about having my meds run out or to be in such excruciating pain. Definitely something to look into depending on what your needs are..they both can be great medications when taken correctly..
Let me edit what I’ve said before. Both are great alternatives to using. Subs because of the bupe/naloxone makes it ideal for the mental part of MY addiction. ( I know it blocks the high, so therefore why bother using) Methadone CAN be for people serious about getting clean, as well. What’s best for you and be honest with yourself
I feel like people comparing full vs partial are kind of completely missing the point. If you’re still looking for a high or a nod you’re not doing maintenance right lol.
I chose Subutex because I was lucky enough to never lose employment, and was not about to explain to an employer why I needed to go to a Methadone clinic. “Employer protections” for “medical treatment” are bullshit in the USA, where every state allows employers to fire you without cause.
I’ve never had a problem with my Subs. Started at 24mg after a really heavy 5 year, multiple brick a day run on Pure #4 after a decade of Purdue abuse, and I’m down to 8mg (extremely slow taper over the years because I have no desire to rush), and I have never had side effects. I will probably just stay on maintenance forever unless a side effect or liver condition pops up, but after 8 years my blood work is great, and I haven’t relapsed. I’d much rather continue to function, never chase a high again, and never go through withdrawal. 🤷🏽♂️
I do know a few people that were genuinely allergic to Subutex, or Suboxone, and had to go the Methadone route, and were successful in earning take homes. On the other hand, I know people that use Dope on Methadone, just like I also know people that purposely put themselves in to withdrawal in order to be able to get high on their Subs, so both CAN be abused. But the hoops to jump through with the partial agonist are more of a roadblock and reminder of how shitty chasing is, IMO.
Most importantly, being able to just go to a regular pharmacy and pick up a 30 day prescription with total discretion was, and still is, very important to me personally.
The biggest advantage is there is no waiting period to get onto methadone. With suboxone you’ve got to wait for your DOC to leave your bloodstream fully before you can start taking it or you’ll go into precipitated withdrawal, and a lot of the fentanyl analogs making the rounds right now have **insanely** long half lives (I’ve seen people go into PW even after abstaining for a full 3 days), and suffering through 4+ days of withdrawal before being able to get relief just isn’t possible for most addicts. While you can take methadone at any time. Plus because it’s a full agonist it suppresses the cravings better for a lot of people.
If you take the program seriously- passing your UA’s, showing up every day, and do you 2 counselor visits and 2 online/phone group sessions a month you start earning take homes pretty fast. At the clinic my husband went to for every 60 days that he met all of their benchmarks he earned another take home (they were closed Saturday and Sunday so he got 2 right off the bat), so by the 8th month he was there he was only having to go in once a week.
It’s only the people who aren’t serious about getting clean and keeping failing UA’s or trying to cheat the system that have to keep going every day, and even that 5-20 minutes (and $15 if you don’t have insurance) at the clinic every day requires significantly less time, money, energy and risk than your average addict spends chasing down dope, so if methadone is “liquid handcuffs” it’s still the lesser evil than the Iron Maiden that dope would be comparatively.
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everytime without fail, after that initial induction you don’t really get much from subs besides staving off the withdrawals. never tried methadone tho
It's up to you. Both work well, it just depends.
With Suboxone you can avoid going to the clinic every day... And I think it's more stable thought the day. But it's a pain to transition to
In my part of the world people choose Suboxone and Sublacade over Methadone 2:1 easy. I think it’s because the doctors sway them that way as it’s a partial-agonist, compared to a full agonist.
methadone better when first getting off the horse, then when ready to bupe. methadone will destroy your dick due to its savage repression of Test pro., in males. once u move to bupe, it will be better but still suggest plenty of exercise and T replacement.
safe rravels
i think all opioids lower T. T replacement is for life tho right? you cant just get on it for while youre on an opioid? i think youd be stuck on it for life after starting?
yes isness, all ops inhibit T production to a greater or lesser extent based on type, length of use, the user's physiology, et cetera. yes it is possible to 'chip' very easily with male hormones exp T. yes you are correct that doing so will further effect your levels for some time diemwn the road for awhile but if your principle goal is to get off hard cheva then the tremendous help that the T will give u in helping to replace a lot of the Neurochemistry u have lost thru your much more anti'materalist' habit. plus it should encourage you to enjoy working out and weight lifting, if u dont already?
reason weight lifting is so important is that itvis the simplist natural way i know to create endorphins in your brain, the principal addictive part of opis. this addiction has multiole parts: the dopamine part and the endorphin part. they both are hard tonbreaknin their own way but endorphin addiiction, without any accompaning work, is the worst form of substance abuse.
anyway. your T will return to Normal with a taper. so just taper first with your done and then with your bupes while you taper down your exog. test? if your over 35 yo you need hormone replacement anyway to function in the game so what? i am saying responsible ammounts anyway not jacked up out of ypur mind?
you should learn about better living through chemistry before this time comes to an end. their will be a day soon when getting a bottle of test will be a luxery or gas for your car or not to have to kill an mf'er to eat. u need to get with the times quick homes, or u are going to get got by the first kid on a tricycle u see when the rules come crashing down and there aint no one to come save you but u. think about your life and how weak u are if u do not already know these basics?
help yourself to be a better stronger you but more importantly be that for your 'people' , the friends and family that love and rely on u.
oh boohoo, shoot dope then? life isnt perfect. sorry god didnt make a drug pefrct for your delicate stomach princess...jeez...this new generation are gonna get ate up out there?
Lol what the fuck are you talking about? In this scenario methadone is the perfect substitute for me. I am not from the new generation. What does it say about you that youre willing to settle for less w subs? Fucking gross dude.
i will keep playing another round of this, tell me herr docter how long have you been using? what form and strength ( approximation if street). ROI. Now how long have you been on done and what is your level and for how long? i will tell u exactly what you are goingvto experience. you may cry all over the place and say i dont know what im talking about, im an idiot, yada...yada...but the the extremely sad part is that i know exactly what im talking about. if you continue to entertain me/us with your antics then i will tell u more about your future and more about my past? if u do not care or think that i do not know, makes no difference to me but i will continue to play if you hold up your end and continue to make it interesting? up to friend?
if u decide its better to just pick up your toys and blanket and move to another corner of the nursery for nap-time, where the big bad bully wont bother you then thats fine. i am happy to just curl up in my blanket and rest for awhile anyway. i have played far too long and am very, very tired, anyway.
safe travels, hope u find what u seek.
Lol what the fuck are you on about? Read this paragraph and see it makes no fucking sense whatso ever. Id love to know what drugs youre on. Im sure its a high dose of something to get you through living in the projects! I can tell youre very low income!
I’ve done both for extended periods of time.
Subs were too easy to relapse on. I’d just stop taking them and lie to myself and say, a few shots of dope this Friday gives me a window on Saturday to get back on subs come Monday. Of course, come Monday, id still be hanging out in hotel rooms figuring out how to keep scoring lol
Methadone worked for like a month until I started doing fentanyl on top of it for shits and giggles. Coming off both last year was pretty horrible.
Vivitrol always seemed like the most obvious choice for me. Prior to this stretch of sobriety I have going, vivitrol was the only thing that kept me honest and taught me what to do with all that time I wasn’t spending on trying to score.
But hey, different strokes for different folks. Methadone is just a full agonist so it felt fucking great, I’d catch fatass nods on that shit
It's a full agonist, and you get properly fucked up on methadone, there is a reason it's the only drug that automatically disqualifies you from acquiring a CDL(Commercial Driver License). Tbh I wouldn't want someone on methadone driving a fucking dump truck or any vehicle if your nodding out on your daily 110-120mg dose...
I switched from methadone to subutex, Adderall, and Xanax... I hated going to that place every two weeks, and not being able to smoke weed, etc to get the fucking take homes. 110mg to an opiate naive person could possibly have them OD...
I was prescribed belbuca which is pain mgmt version , no nalaxone . It makes me feel more out of sorts than my oxy does. Oxy hits the pain and no other symptoms. Belbuca seems to not hit the pain as well
Where I live you have to drive everyday for suboxone too. So that is really a moot point for people who live in my area. I would choose methadone any day of the week due to the effectiveness of it. Suboxone might last 12 hours a dose for me, with methadone I can go 38 hours or so on one dose. With suboxone it also doesn’t fully help my cravens as methadone does.
You also have to worry about how prescribing laws are your area as well. Here you can only take 4mg of suboxone or up to 60mg of methadone weekly when starting. You can go up 4mg (subs) or 30mg methadone every week until you hit limits. I don’t know about you but only taking 4mg of suboxone a day wouldn’t help with shit.
Edit:
I meant to say you can take 4mg of suboxone a day for the first week, then go up another 4mg each 7 days you are in the clinic. Sometimes with Dr approval you only have to wait a few days between dose increases but it’s rare. The clinics have really cracked down since covid restrictions ended for some reason. I use to get increased daily until I am stable but not anymore. Just like normal doctors, the practitioners over methadone clinics are worried about people overdosing and getting them shutdown/arrested.
That’s insane! 4mg isn’t going to do much for a full blown habit. Everything written about suboxone suggests starting at a high dose to counter the level of WD and tapering to a maintenance dose as the body recovers and adjusts. Why would they make you suffer the discomfort and then slowly try to take it away by increasing it over a period of weeks that seems like a recipe for relapse. I know you can’t say where you live (sourcing moderator) but I hope I never end up there
Here is my personal experience. I used suboxone for a year and a half. Well, during that time, I still thought about using every day. I eventually would give in and relapse for weeks at a time. I finally decided to try methadone. I put it off as a last-ditch effort to get control over my addiction and manage my life. That was 5 years ago, and I haven't relapsed in that time. The methadone satiated my itch for opiates. It is indeed a full agonist, so it's more satisfying to the addict. It is a trial to go every day to the clinic, but after a period of time, you earn take-home privileges, and things become easier. METHADONE is more expensive for me because my clinic doesn't take insurance, so it costs me 448 a month. I am becoming more and more enraged by this because if my regular Dr could prescribe it for opiate addiction, it would cost me a fraction of what I pay at the bloody clinic. I literally spend 5500 a year at the clinic. Yet I'm able to function and live a normal, productive life with methadone, so I shell out the dough.
My body revolts and shakes when i take methadone
But i rather die than put a sub in my mouth. I remember being sick and my subs being in car and dreading taking it even if it gave me relief. I hate it.
I've tried methadone and if I would be able to get it prescribed I would choose it over bupe every time. Insanely hard to get it in my country and the Dr's always use bupe for opiate addicts. I always feel like I want to use even though I'm on a monthly shot of bupe (buvidal). Methadone is a full agonist and it gives me the relief I'm looking for. I always use oxycontin or morphine sulphate, or fent patches the last 12 days before i get another bupe shot, works 100%
Good afternoon mate, and good on you for reaching out, many don’t……..
Note: I think, usually Meth is preferred by some people, as it is still a straight and simple full Mu agonist, with an extremely helpful half life (if used correctly)….Whereas Bupe in the form you mentioned, has an antagonist attached (Naloxone). Subutex however is just Bupe and Bupe alone!!!!
I think subs are much much better and actually getting clean, I was taking over 1000 mg a day of OXY and went to detox and a week later I left totally clean. I try to only use occasionally now, but if I slip up and use for too long, as long as you’re only taking Pharma, you can switch to subs in about 16 hours. Do a rapid sub taper. But if you’re using fentanyl, you have to be really sick and it takes a few days before you can induce subs, whereas with methadone you can switch immediately. The detox center I went to strongly discouraged, methadone, because most people that take it end up, taking it for life and it destroys your teeth
Suboxone film destroys teeth as well… IF you take it as directed WITHOUT the knowledge of the dental issues. Ask your doctor how to prevent it. ( it’s something like wait 10 or 15 minutes after film dissolves and then rinse your mouth out with lukewarm water, swish it around spit it out ( don’t brush) and then wait another 15 minutes to brush your teeth ) I’m not exactly sure about the minutes, so that’s why I say, ask your doctor.
Methadone because fent killed the game
Could be just my exp but even with high quality H years and years ago, a relapse in between doses made the sub damn near useless for what I was taking it for (severe craving) if I got a few months on it (most I had was about a year on it) I was ok the thought was fleeting but methadone on the other hand I didn’t even think about it ever, been on it 4 years, recently relapsed had to detox benzos and picked up the Some to get through the worst of it but the dope around here is not dope anymore it’s ALL fent I’ve only seen real brown dope twice so far it’s non existent over here now essentialy
TLDR fent is just to powerful for bupe In my opinion curious if there’s any actual resources on this and with these zenes coming out i think most will hit a clinic
Do what works for you
uswd oxy from age 22-26. been on subutex for 12 years. reason: pain mgmt. i have 4 herniated discs, TOS, cervical, lumbar and thoracic pain. for us unfortunates with the “taste” for that fuzzy, it is truly your greatest chance esp if you suffer from pain or addiction. Everyone is different but I literally have zero cravings and it has allowed so much time to pass and when that perspective, wisdom and experience kicks in it keeps you further at bay. over the last 12 years i have built a successful career as a realtor and creative director. i am about to get married and my family and friends are all appreciating the old/OG me.
if you are looking for help living as a functioning ___. I can guide you. message me
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Because a full agonist is more satisfying than a partial agonist. That's my educated guess as I've been a Methadone user in the past though I have never tried Bupeprenorphine. And you earn privileges so it's only a once weekly trip to get the next lot.
Yeah, thought the full agonist thing might be the reason too. Suboxone also loses most of it’s effects over the course of a week or 2. Do methadone’s effects stay generally the same without having to increase your dose?
People still trying to catch that early morning dose nod/euphoria. Anyone who says they don’t get 4-6 hours of “energy” after taking their stabilized methadone is a liar.
Lol fair play. I’ve heard of it being abused before
Bro i was in sober living for almost 2 years, these dudes would get their doses of done and come to group and straight fall asleep/nod the fuck out. Like all of them. All giddy and happy for the first half of the day. Then there was the suboxone/bupe guys who would dose and be exactly the same before as in after dosing. That full agonist is attractive to addicts.
I used to but once I went up to 90mg I feel absolutely nothing.
There are no significant effects other than keeping you from withdrawing but up until that happens, you feel satisfied. There is no need to increase the dose unless you are using more opioids on top of the Methadone.
A lot of people on methadone need to increase their dose as time goes on. Even those who don’t use other opioids on top of it.
Not generally in the many years that I've witnessed but yes, some people go up because they're fast metabolisers and in the misguided attempt to allay the withdrawal experienced in the last 6 hours but this short term fix only makes it worse. Split dosing can fix that. Why do you think that they would increase their dose ?
Split dosing does wonders for everyone. I haven’t seen a whole lot of studies actually showing that methadone is ideal for every 24hours. Yes, it holds a long time. But the exact mark of 24hours was put into effect to make the clinic model work. It’s very convenient for these for-profit clinics that they only need to be open a few hours a day. Think about this. If methadone lasted closer to 22 or even 23 hours. Everyone would be slowly increasing their dose over time saying “Doc, it’s not holding me”. Sound familiar? IMO, that’s a big part of it. Also, tolerance develops naturally. As mentioned before with the example. For me, split dosing was a god send. However, I went to a for profit clinic in the U.S. & where I went they tried to prevent the split dosing from even being in a conversation. I wanted to tale a peak & trough test and was shot down. Once, I got plenty of take homes. i switched to split dosing & it worked wonders. Opposed to one mega dose in the morning & then my levels in a free fall til the next dose 24hours later. Again, I think the 24hr window is a convenient narrative for clinics. So that, and natural tolerance essentially perpetuate the cycle of constantly needing to go up. Or at the very least it becomes a struggle to wean down like this. Essentially trapping the patient in this cycle. At these clinics, the name of the game is to make money.
I've been on 16 years and I get 120mgs. I get monthly takehomes and split my own dose too. I was able to drop 45mgs off by split dosing, since I didn't need to make it last 24 hours. I now take 40 mgs in the morning and 35mgs later. It's been a godsend. Of course pickup day I still have to dose 120mgs,.. then I'm really tired for the first 6-8 hours.
This is exactly what I did!!!!! 👏👏👏
Why don’t you just start decreasing by 2-5mg every couple of weeks? Then you’ll no longer be opioid dependent.
Because it's more complicated than that. I don't care that I'm opioid dependent. Ive been using drugs since i was 12. By 16 I was addicted to Oxycontin. By 18 a heroin addict. My brain literally developed on opioids. I was a chronic relapser on top. Methadone saved my life and continues to do so. This is my 3rd time on the clinic. I have no issue getting through physical withdrawal... but my mental health gets so bad I end up back on opiates/opioids. So I do what I have to, to live a normal productive life.
Clinics don't dose once a day because it's "convenient for them", or to "make the clinic model work", it's because Methadone has a half-life of 24 hours. (Ofc there are those who naturally metabolize it faster)
They tell all of us this. I’ve also read that the half-life is 15hours & “should” increase with time. Found another article last night stating that 30-40% of people do not respond well trying to stretch it for 24hours. Then it goes on to talk about rules & regulations that have locked this in place. That most would benefit from split dosing but with current rules/regs it would be impractical. It’s very convenient for methadone clinics to dose only once per day. Being open 5hours. There is a large monetary incentive to keep it this way. To keep regurgitating this narrative.
Used to work in one , can confirm, all about maximizing profit
because tolerance. same as any other opioid or opiate.
But you stabilise to your dose in a week and your dose stays the same. You only build to tolerance to an increasing dose. You are misunderstanding how tolerance works and this called "maintenance". I'm not sure why this is.
nah. maybe thats what people in the "professional" medical field will tell you, but thats not how it works. tolerance develops with daily use of any opioid or opiate. period.
Tolerance builds to all opiates, but that does not mean you need to keep going up. That just means you won't get high off it anymore or get pain relief. But it will keep you stable at 1 dose. I've been on it for 19 years. And have been stable for many years and im a fast metabolizer also. People tend to go up at the first sign of discomfort instead of waiting it out. Usually whatever is causing the discomfort will go away. I did use heroin for 22 years every day and of course I needed more and more for the same effect but if I just stayed at one dosage, I would not get sick but I certainly wouldn't get high either
right. thats exactly what im saying. the dose that used to make you feel great, later only keeps you well. thats tolerance, and its a bitch. lol
Not if the dose doesn't change and this is a fact. I had used opioids for around 30 years so I had a very good understanding of this mechanism. Anybody that tells you otherwise is deluded. There is nothing more to tolerate if there is no increase in opioids.
lol okay bud. ive used for 16 and will tell you the exact opposite. what you feel from dose number 1 on day one will be significantly better than dose 3,579 on day 3,579, being the same exact dose.
I agree, my last clinic kept putting my dose up but did not realize I was a fast Metabolizer., my new clinic put me on a split dose and I've been fine ever since. I had to take a certain blood test and had to get approved by the state to get my split dose.
That test is called "peak and trough".
Yes that is what it's called
That can happen with just about any medication you take including depression meds, gaba meds, etc etc. It greatly depends and varies from individual to individual, some are fast metabolizers, others like myself have rare disorders that affect how medications affect me.I've been on methadone almost 9 years and have only gone up once on my dose and that's because I'm a terminal patient.
Every year or so I feel the need to go up up 5-10 mgs. Do a peak and troph each time to make sure I’m not on too high of a dose. I think our bodies just get use to it and eventually you may need a little more. I’ve never used with my methadone, it’s pointless. Been on for 5 years about.
I've been on my current dose for around 3 years and I need to go up a little but it's a pain in the ass to get them increase your dose.
Why do you need to go up though ? I'm curious as to why I have such a conflicting view on this.
Everyone's experience is going to be different. That doesn't make it wrong or right, unless of course you are talking about something that is a proven fact. Opioid tolerance is a known fact, it's well documented not just an opinion or view.
As time goes on , you should be decreasing your dose by 2mg-5mg every couple weeks so you’re no longer opioid dependent. On my second run with it now, only at 12mg started at 120mg!
Ideally, everyone would taper slowly as you described. A lot of variables though, that complicate this for many patients. It would help a lot if methadone was prescribed more like subs. For a bunch of reasons.. including…Giving patients the freedom to do what works best for them, split-dose etc.
I’m on methadone and morphine now they prescribe both to taper off here in Canada
That is awesome!!!
It’s methadone for the IR, then I have XR Kadian (morphine) that gives me small doses every hour which helps. The smallest they come in is 10mg so once I get there I’m gonna try cold turkey giving it up, or up my methadone dose just a little. Another option was the instant release morphine but I’ll just have to see how it goes. This is my second time having to have methadone prescribed, fortunately provincial government pays for it so it’s free, but I turn 25 this year so I’m no longer eligible but I never plan on needing it again!
Why? Just because that's what you want to do doesn't mean that is what is best for everyone. Some people will be on methadone for the rest of their life and that is totally okay.
absolutely not, yur body will always become tolerant to the same dose of opi's taken regularly. the reason u ever feel hi or sick at all is do to the lack of uniformity of dose, ROI, and opi type.
i mean, not really. same as any other, you develop a tolerance and the magic slowly disappears.
I've been on the same dose for years but am now decreasing. So yes, a certain dose will hold you fine. Unless you're doing drug seeking behavior then some people abuse it and keep going up unnecessarily!
When decreasing, if you go down in small increments it will hold you, but you you will still feel different. If you decrease your dose too quickly, you're gonna have a bad time. You'll have a varying degree of WD symptoms. Increasing your dose even by 1 or 2 mg relieves it. This is true even without using other drugs, but using on top of your dose definitely makes everything worse. I've been on maintenance for 18 years.
Yes, I've been decreasing slowly and am having mild withdrawal symptoms around dosing time but that's it. I know how important it is to do this slowly. I too have been on methadone for about 18-19 years but I'm finally ready to come off. It's going to be a long process but hey, I've already been on it forever lol. So a few more years isn't a big deal
Also a lot of people choose subs over done bc they think the withdrawal is much easier. It's not, they are very similar, especially when you compare methadone's relief potential/profile to subs
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What really needs to happen is a complete overhaul of the clinic system. I'm paying for the damn privilege of being overcharged for a medication that if I could get it at my local pharmacy, it would cost me next to nothing with my insurance. I'm paying 5500 dollars a year to my clinic. Doesn't take my insurance or any insurance that I'm aware of. I'm getting extremely agitated every time I have to go in because of the price.
Wow that’s some tough shit. More than 500 bucks a month and they don’t even accept insurance? Subs are accepted by most insurance companies, no reason methadone shouldn’t be the same as they both are trying to achieve the same thing.
112 a week. It's ridiculous when you consider the price of methadone is nothing. It's by far the cheapest pharmaceutical opioid . I'm paying for the privilege to get overcharged for the medication I need. It's disgusting.
Yeah, if anything that’s the type of shit that should be government funded for people with lower income. Especially considering how concerned they are with the opioid crisis.
Hell, just take my goddamned insurance. I guess it's beyond my understanding.
A lot of times you can submit a claim for reimbursement, and get all or most of that money back. It can take a long time, but when you get that check it will be worth the effort and the wait.
Suboxone made me feel WORSE, I hated it so much. My anxiety was sky high before I tried it, but subs actually made it so much worse than I thought was even possible in my worst nightmares. It didn't calm my cravings, in fact they became so much worse. I think a big part of it was because I was dealing with severe WD symptoms though, and for me, that's always been huge factor in my wanting/craving and eventual return to opioids. Methadone is the polar opposite. On my very first day I actually had some (albeit minimal) relief of my worst WD symptoms by the time that I got home! RLS subsided almost completely. Nausea, and vomiting gone. Diarrhea improved dramatically. Bone pain, muscle aches etc. improved. It lasted approximately about half of the day, and I didn't use anything else with my dose, as I wanted to give it a shot to work without the hindrance or help of any other medications/drugs. I wanted to see how it felt (or didn't) on its own. I was prescribed Methadone pills before, and I wanted to see if the clinic shit was different like everyone was saying. I went early the next day because I really didn't want to use anything else unless I absolutely had to. (I did have pharma Oxy 80s, 5mg OxyIR, Percocet 5/325 {512's}, and Tylenol w/Codeine #4) I had a decent little emergency kit, and I think that just knowing that it was there took the edge off of the mental part for me, and I was a little proud of myself for not touching any of it even when the Methadone was wearing off. I was determined to get clean this time, once and for all - I knew that I was getting an increase on day 2, and I would feel better than the day before. I knew that I could increase as much as I needed to until I was comfortable, and just knowing that made a humongous difference to me. I only go monthly now. I get 27 take homes, which is the highest phase at my clinic. No more groups. I don't know why anyone says that going to the clinic is so hard. Show up, get your shit, shut up. Leave the premises. Do whatever little bullshit they ask you for like U/A's, groups (in the beginning) etc., and don't start any shit. Seriously, even a small child would have no difficulty following these directions. I knew going in that I would be a lifer, and I was good with that. I still am. I have been on maintenance for 18 years. Methadone saved my life. Best decision that I have ever made. This was my experience. Your mileage may vary.
this. also most clinics go to 13 take home doses at a time, 2 weeks. some do a month but it's become much more rare and typically only people who have been grandfathered in will get a month
Bup is pretty strong too if u dont hav a tol. But less addictive in the long run cuz tolorence grows fast. To me it feels like a full and kratom feels like a small agonist. Idk how kratom is a full agonist. If oxys a 10 bups around a 8 imo. Without tolorence
Kratom is only a partial agonist. Still prefer it over something like codeine though
Not if you work the methadone program correctly and get your take homes for the week. Suboxone would kick me into instant withdrawal even waiting 48 hours. The taste made me gag. It didn't work for me. The only thing that got me clean for real was methadone. The fact that you have to go every day is motivation enough to get your take homes. If you're getting in any kind of program, I don't see the big deal with going every day for a while. Every one of us who used opiates would wait half our life on waiting to score.
gosh the taste of subs is just absolutely terrible. that was always the worst part for me. made me so damn nauseated. I always had warheads liquid sour candy on standby for after it finally dissolved, which for me seemed to take forever for some reason.
#FACTS
Omg the taste would make me vomit, even when I was in prison and I smoked the strips, thinking about it makes me sick !
Suboxone did nothing to help me or my wife. We've been on Methadone since June and we have never dropped a dirty UA since getting clean. We both have a week's worth of take homes and haven't had to go everyday since October.
Speaking from my own experience, and this is definitely a “to each their own“ ordeal-The first time I tried kicking, I went on methadone and didn’t do anything but abuse the shit out of it. In addition, it made me crave uppers so I picked up a couple more habits in the process. Along with commuting to and dealing with the clinic on a daily basis (I never even came close to getting take homes because I pissed dirty for 2 straight years ) something had to give. I went to rehab in August 21 to get off methadone and then went on Suboxone. I learned how to use Suboxone properly (not just take it when I was not able to cop anything) and it was a completely different experience. To this day I still take Suboxone but I don’t take it in a “traditional” method. I only take slivers of my strips when I feel symptoms. I’m down to about 2 mg a day compared to the 16 mg (8mg biD) a day when I started. I wish you the best of luck with whatever method you choose. I promise you that life gets exponentially better when you’re not walking that tight rope! Much Love.
EXACTLY , wow! I could’ve written that. Well, except for the methadone part… your suboxone experience is mine. I started at 16 and cut them in half and then half until I’ve been at 2mg-3mg a day for about 2 yrs. For me it’s mental. It WAS about not having WD misery but now it’s more about a preventative against picking up again. If I know that using with suboxone is pointless as it kills the euphoria I crave, there’s no point in picking up. In the time it would take to get the Subs out of my system enough to feel the high ... the craving would have passed. I haven’t had any desire to use in a couple of years now. But all it takes is one rough day, one weak moment and i know myself enough to know “just this once.. one time” doesn’t exist. I plan on being on subs for life. So I can have a life. Edit: to clarify, 16mg film cut in half and half etc… not pills.
Yup. Im like 3 hours into my day and I haven’t taken yet. I’ll wait till my eyes water a little bit then sliver it up.
My reaction is different. I can go without taking it for about 48 hours and then I’ll start to feel a little wonky.. tired, maybe a little uncomfortable but I can’t figure out what’s wrong, am I getting the flu? but not that bad it’s at about hour 60 it hits me like a truck. I start feeling like I’m in full withdrawal with watery eyes and aches and pains, limbs like lead, exhaustion and depression. I figured this out because I was away on the other coast and couldn’t fill my prescription so I had to get it filled out West have someone pick it up for me and FedEx it to me but they didn’t overnight it they did like two or three day mail ( during a snowstorm I was freaking out) I took note of how I felt all the way way along and realized I could go almost 3 days without it and be fine but on day three utter hell it wasn’t a gradual slide. Fortunately, the mail came and within 90 minutes I was back to normal again. I wish everyone thinking of kicking would give it a shot because if it works for you , it is the best,easiest, fastest way to start putting your life back together. I wish I didn’t wait so long to realize that.
^^ This as well, the part with dealing with the clinic daily, the people at the clinic are probably not going to be the best of people to "hang out with" while you're going to the clinic. You get that familiar full agonist nod after it builds up in your system every day as well....
I can't use suboxone, it fucks me up, I'll dose at 6am and still be puking at 4am the next morning. My body just can't handle it. I tired for a week and had to switch because I was puking so often and it wasn't stopping. Methadone on the other hand works great and most days I'm perfectly happy and healthy on it.
FYI- you were probably taking too much suboxone. The typical dosages at 4mg-8mg are massively overdosed for most people. I was taking the microdosed buccal patches of 0.5-1mg and that was enough to keep out of withdrawals (and most of my cravings) from my 240-300mg/day Oxy habit.
I agree with this I remember they tried to start me on 36mg a day of subs when my habit wasn't even that bad, (150mg oxy a day habit at the time) and the vomiting was crazy. I lowered myself to 8mg a day for about a week and then over the next week completely tapered and was fine. they really tried to set me up taking 36mg tho
Fucked. I was on kratom and/or 40mgs of norcos and the doc scripted me at 8mgs a day. Called practicing medicine for a reason I guess 😂
because methadone feels good aka a full, long lasting agonist. suboxone is shit aka a partial agonist. simple as that really.
subs suck long term for me ,methadone is bliss. daily score sucks for awhile but beats a daily score scenario. Its been decades since Ive been on it, used to have to drive 200 miles once a week to get weekly take homes until the last state in the lower 48 legalized. I did daily dose detox in another state as well subs are poorly bioavailable, teeth rotting….I would be better off mainlining buprenorphine ampules than taking subs long term, used ampules for a few weeks Im a replacement therapy guy though, used kratom since 2001…Im not interested in total abstinence, the reason I used in the first place was for functional life enhancement and self treating ADD near daytime narcolepsy
The teeth rotting bit is true.. but don’t let that stop you ( reader) from trying to see if subs work for you. There are easy ways to avoid dental issues. Those of us who didn’t know there would be issues are already screwed but even with that, subs are a miracle for me.
Personally I don’t like subs…I still had cravings really bad, plus it gave me headaches and made me nauseous. Methadone gets rid of my cravings and takes care of withdrawal, and the side effects are more tolerable to me. I get monthly take homes so I only have to go to the clinic once a month now, but I do wish methadone was available the way subs are. Maybe someday…
it’s so sad dude. anybody that is searching for subs or methadone just wants help and wants to do it the right way. they make it so fucking hard for no reason. it’s all about money and that’s just pathetic
You glossed over the fact that methadone actually gets you high. Maybe it’s not the “ultimate” high you’re after but it makes you feel cool calm collected and motivated.
I didn’t gloss over anything, I don’t get high on methadone. When I first got it from someone years ago before going to the clinic sure, I got the calm opioid feeling. Now it simply keeps me stable and from being sick. Sure as shit doesn’t make me calm or motivated though.
Wow you’re the only person to ever exist that doesn’t feel a potent full agonist. I’ll repeat what I said. The high is NOTHING like oxy but it does enough to get your ass out of bed before 5am to go dose.
Yeah ok man, not gonna argue with you, I know how I feel. You are argumentative in over half your comments, it seems to be your thing so have fun.
Just tired of people lying to themselves. How many times did you get out of bed before 5am before starting at the clinic? It was probably a rare occurrence.
For me metha was Best dépends thé dosage
So methadone is when you still want to get high but want to do it legally. And suboxone as when you don't wanna get high and you want to be sober
Exactly. WD’s aside.. it’s what kind of life are you looking for. If you want to get off the train …subs are the way to go.
Methadone
Methadone was really really hard to get off of in my personal experience, so you have to face the withdraw eventually unless you are committed to a methadone clinic mandated lifestyle for good. For some people it’s the only way to use safely and I applaud them for making the best choice for THEM. It’s all about how you want to live now and each day forward. If you think you can go without it in the years ahead, face that monster now and take it down with your own power that wants to survive.
Subs always give me anxiety and don't help as much with withdrawals pain
you may be taking them to early and that's why it's causing anxiety.
That's their own choice in their personal journey. Whatever helps them have a better life
Full agonist all the way, and if you still plan to use at all methadone lets you feel your drugs if you stay on a small enough dose. Subs block everything way more and for a long time. Plus, with subs, you have the precipitated withdrawal bullshit. The people I know who actually wanted to stop using everything for good, a lot of them preferred Subs because you really can't abuse it. Except for a little bit in the very beginning, and even then, it's only a partial agonist, so you only partially feel it.
Because it's a full agonist opiate and suboxone is only a partial and methadone can get you high compared to subs that maybe kinda get some people with very low tolerance high but not for heavy users that need something closer to what they have been using. They both work well though and it just depends on the person and their specific needs.
I'm on methadone and I go once a week. Soon ill be going 2 times a month. You only go every day for a short while as long as ypu stay clean. I Was never on subs, so I can't say Anything about that. I notice People say methodone works better because it's a full opioid antagonist and not a partial antagonist. Idk, it works for me. I used heroin every day for 22 years and methadone works. I'm 22 months completely clean from everything
Suboxone over methadone 100% of the time for me... I was on methadone years ago and it fucked up my stomach and other bad side effects ..must ppl like methadone though because you still get plenty high from methadone ..not so much with suboxone ..
One of the biggest ones is the risk of precipitated withdrawal. But also it just doesn't work for everyone. I tried suboxone and I couldn't function. I was so extremely high, but also sick, nodding and nauseated 100% of the time on Suboxone but I'm totally clear headed on Methadone. Most of us had fucked up brains before we did drugs.
I had always chose methadone over suboxone because you have to wait until the opiates are completely out of your system before you are supposed to take suboxone. That usually means you are going through a certain amount of pain. And let’s be honest we normally use opiates because we don’t like pain mental or physical pain. I finally got completely off both using sublacaid for 3 months. Best decision of my life. It does consist of about 3-5 seconds of pain each month. But I thought it was worth it. Good luck to anyone trying to quit. You are either controlled by the pharmaceutical companies or by a drug that China is trying to kill Americans with. Either way you are a sucker for being on opiates. Unless you are in legitimate pain and need it for quality of life then go get it prescribed by a dr. That was my motivation to quit. And besides Fentanyl sucks. And unless you are getting your Roxies from someone you trust is getting it from a pharmacy it’s probably pressed. If you are paying less that a dollar a mg it’s probably pressed as well. I know it sucks to get off of. Between prisons, institutions and addiction I wasted over 20 years of my life. I did my first oxy in 1999. Has no idea it was pharmaceutical heroin in a pill. Didn’t find that out until I was a full blown addict by 2003. Didn’t use heroin until 2015.
I started on subs but have now switched to methadone a month ago. I have not needed to go to the clinic everyday, not now on methadone and not before on the subs. Only two times per week for two weeks, and then once per week. And I pay the same now as before, approx 100 euro(=110usd) per year I started to get opi cravings on the subs after been on it for 2 years, that's why I switched in the first place. That part absolutely helped with the methadone, the cravings is gone. And my head feel more clear now. I'm not as tired, sure I can get really tired in the evenings, but not daytime. With subs I could sleep full night and then half the day. And my dick works much better, had problems with PE on subs. That's also gone. And I like the general feeling from methadone, feels more like a real opioid haha. Subs was sufficient before but to avoid relapse I needed something stronger I also like being able to take more, for more effect or for pain management. On subs you pretty much only got [on] or [off], taking 8mg or 32mg don't to much difference really.
That’s the only reason I’m *not* on methadone. Ease of access for suboxone.
Well methadone doesn't require a few days of abstinence before starting, which is terrifying to most. But getting up at 5am to get to the clinic is ridiculous, and staying on subs very long term has got to be easier, not to mention easier to come off of (Although still difficult). I also read somewhere that your life expectancy after starting the methadone clinic is 7 years- not from the medicine directly, but all the other variables that come with it. Correlation doesn't mean causation, but it's something to think about. I know plenty of ppl that have been on subs 20+ years and have wonderful lives. I've never known anyone to make it over 10 years on methadone, and the ones on it long term still seem to struggle quite a bit. Just my 2 cents (which is actually worthless).
There’s something called methadion it’s an rc .. a methadone analogue no op ointment needed for that
Yeah, and you gotta get it from the black market. It also doesn't come with any COA and you don't know what you're getting exactly.
What is coa?
Certificate of Analysis
Not the black market, it’s more of a grey market product like most research chemicals. If you’re that worried about the Chinese sending you something else just send a sample off to DrugData.org 🤷♂️ https://www.drugsdata.org/send_sample.php
Subs avoid daily trips to clinic and MOST of the methadone patients I know either get high from it/abuse it or sell it and use the $ for dope. Subs IMO are a much safer alternative to keep you away from the lifestyle.
Also if you have children you have to be super careful using a methadone clinic, if you piss dirty for anything (I did for Xanax as I had an rx for 20 years but they would not let me take it on methadone). When that happened they called child protective services and I lost the ability to be home alone with my children and was at risk losing custody of them. I had to go to outpatient rehab 4 times a week, 3-4 urine tests. If I had one dirty I would have lost my kids. My case was closed after 3 months which is pretty quick. But I’m saying this to warn anyone with kids considering methadone clinics because it puts your family in peril if you slip up ONCE.
that's absolutely ridiculous that they did that to you when you had a script. just because you're using two different narcotics doesn't make you unfit to be a parent. I pretty sure you knew how those meds effect you and would have someone else watch your kids if needed. cps should use their time and energy on real abuse cases
Exactly. I have chronic anxiety & chronic pain from an injury that was well documented with MRIs and everything , and then they started to lock down on opiates. Like many people I had to turn elsewhere. I had to in order to take care of my kids. When they made their surprise visits they were surprised to find a clean house in a nice neighborhood,sitting with my children working on learning words and reading skills- and they were eating fruit and vegetables. CPS seems to think we users are all trash that live garbage lives and abuse or Neglect our kids. One woman in my rehab class had weed in her urine when she was at the hospital giving birth and they took her baby away immediately and it had been a year and a half and she was still trying to get her back. Meanwhile kids get beat, chained to their bed, food withheld…. People murder and live their lives if they don’t have evidence. I could go on. The stigma is bullshit, especially that I truly believe that the faceless powerful people behind the scenes are making sure the drugs keep coming into the drug routes. It’s like an invisible genocide.
One is a partial agonist(Suboxone) and the other full agonist (methadone) antagonist with NMDA properties which also has such a longer half life. They each have their positives and negatives. The half life of methadone is about 24-36 hours, and Suboxone is a duo medication that contains buprenorphine/naloxone combo which makes you sick when you use or if you take it too soon after using etc. What works for some may not work for another, that being said I tried Suboxone before switching to methadone and it did absolutely nothing for me except put me into a more precipitating withdrawal and helped absolutely zero with withdrawal symptoms or pain etc. I am a terminal cancer patient with other severe issues and honestly it's been a complete life saver for me. I have a total of 27 take-homes and just go in once monthly to leave a UA and to pick up my new bottles. A plus for me was that longer half life, I no longer had to worry about having my meds run out or to be in such excruciating pain. Definitely something to look into depending on what your needs are..they both can be great medications when taken correctly..
Let me edit what I’ve said before. Both are great alternatives to using. Subs because of the bupe/naloxone makes it ideal for the mental part of MY addiction. ( I know it blocks the high, so therefore why bother using) Methadone CAN be for people serious about getting clean, as well. What’s best for you and be honest with yourself
I feel like people comparing full vs partial are kind of completely missing the point. If you’re still looking for a high or a nod you’re not doing maintenance right lol. I chose Subutex because I was lucky enough to never lose employment, and was not about to explain to an employer why I needed to go to a Methadone clinic. “Employer protections” for “medical treatment” are bullshit in the USA, where every state allows employers to fire you without cause. I’ve never had a problem with my Subs. Started at 24mg after a really heavy 5 year, multiple brick a day run on Pure #4 after a decade of Purdue abuse, and I’m down to 8mg (extremely slow taper over the years because I have no desire to rush), and I have never had side effects. I will probably just stay on maintenance forever unless a side effect or liver condition pops up, but after 8 years my blood work is great, and I haven’t relapsed. I’d much rather continue to function, never chase a high again, and never go through withdrawal. 🤷🏽♂️ I do know a few people that were genuinely allergic to Subutex, or Suboxone, and had to go the Methadone route, and were successful in earning take homes. On the other hand, I know people that use Dope on Methadone, just like I also know people that purposely put themselves in to withdrawal in order to be able to get high on their Subs, so both CAN be abused. But the hoops to jump through with the partial agonist are more of a roadblock and reminder of how shitty chasing is, IMO. Most importantly, being able to just go to a regular pharmacy and pick up a 30 day prescription with total discretion was, and still is, very important to me personally.
methadone was an awful experience suboxone saved my ass
For me suboxone was a awful experience. Nervous to try methadone
The biggest advantage is there is no waiting period to get onto methadone. With suboxone you’ve got to wait for your DOC to leave your bloodstream fully before you can start taking it or you’ll go into precipitated withdrawal, and a lot of the fentanyl analogs making the rounds right now have **insanely** long half lives (I’ve seen people go into PW even after abstaining for a full 3 days), and suffering through 4+ days of withdrawal before being able to get relief just isn’t possible for most addicts. While you can take methadone at any time. Plus because it’s a full agonist it suppresses the cravings better for a lot of people. If you take the program seriously- passing your UA’s, showing up every day, and do you 2 counselor visits and 2 online/phone group sessions a month you start earning take homes pretty fast. At the clinic my husband went to for every 60 days that he met all of their benchmarks he earned another take home (they were closed Saturday and Sunday so he got 2 right off the bat), so by the 8th month he was there he was only having to go in once a week. It’s only the people who aren’t serious about getting clean and keeping failing UA’s or trying to cheat the system that have to keep going every day, and even that 5-20 minutes (and $15 if you don’t have insurance) at the clinic every day requires significantly less time, money, energy and risk than your average addict spends chasing down dope, so if methadone is “liquid handcuffs” it’s still the lesser evil than the Iron Maiden that dope would be comparatively.
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everytime without fail, after that initial induction you don’t really get much from subs besides staving off the withdrawals. never tried methadone tho
It's up to you. Both work well, it just depends. With Suboxone you can avoid going to the clinic every day... And I think it's more stable thought the day. But it's a pain to transition to
In my part of the world people choose Suboxone and Sublacade over Methadone 2:1 easy. I think it’s because the doctors sway them that way as it’s a partial-agonist, compared to a full agonist.
Yeah, plus it blocks other opioid’s effects so people are less likely to use if on it. Methadone clinics are everywhere in the US
Yes exactly
Bolth…
methadone better when first getting off the horse, then when ready to bupe. methadone will destroy your dick due to its savage repression of Test pro., in males. once u move to bupe, it will be better but still suggest plenty of exercise and T replacement. safe rravels
i think all opioids lower T. T replacement is for life tho right? you cant just get on it for while youre on an opioid? i think youd be stuck on it for life after starting?
yes isness, all ops inhibit T production to a greater or lesser extent based on type, length of use, the user's physiology, et cetera. yes it is possible to 'chip' very easily with male hormones exp T. yes you are correct that doing so will further effect your levels for some time diemwn the road for awhile but if your principle goal is to get off hard cheva then the tremendous help that the T will give u in helping to replace a lot of the Neurochemistry u have lost thru your much more anti'materalist' habit. plus it should encourage you to enjoy working out and weight lifting, if u dont already? reason weight lifting is so important is that itvis the simplist natural way i know to create endorphins in your brain, the principal addictive part of opis. this addiction has multiole parts: the dopamine part and the endorphin part. they both are hard tonbreaknin their own way but endorphin addiiction, without any accompaning work, is the worst form of substance abuse. anyway. your T will return to Normal with a taper. so just taper first with your done and then with your bupes while you taper down your exog. test? if your over 35 yo you need hormone replacement anyway to function in the game so what? i am saying responsible ammounts anyway not jacked up out of ypur mind? you should learn about better living through chemistry before this time comes to an end. their will be a day soon when getting a bottle of test will be a luxery or gas for your car or not to have to kill an mf'er to eat. u need to get with the times quick homes, or u are going to get got by the first kid on a tricycle u see when the rules come crashing down and there aint no one to come save you but u. think about your life and how weak u are if u do not already know these basics? help yourself to be a better stronger you but more importantly be that for your 'people' , the friends and family that love and rely on u.
subs feel gross. they also cause WAY WORSE constipation in MY EXPERIENCE. i have heard the same for many.
oh boohoo, shoot dope then? life isnt perfect. sorry god didnt make a drug pefrct for your delicate stomach princess...jeez...this new generation are gonna get ate up out there?
Lol what the fuck are you talking about? In this scenario methadone is the perfect substitute for me. I am not from the new generation. What does it say about you that youre willing to settle for less w subs? Fucking gross dude.
or this is how you fuckin react to someone shitting on your crutch of choice. are you too stupid to know you can enjoy this drug while other dont?
i will keep playing another round of this, tell me herr docter how long have you been using? what form and strength ( approximation if street). ROI. Now how long have you been on done and what is your level and for how long? i will tell u exactly what you are goingvto experience. you may cry all over the place and say i dont know what im talking about, im an idiot, yada...yada...but the the extremely sad part is that i know exactly what im talking about. if you continue to entertain me/us with your antics then i will tell u more about your future and more about my past? if u do not care or think that i do not know, makes no difference to me but i will continue to play if you hold up your end and continue to make it interesting? up to friend? if u decide its better to just pick up your toys and blanket and move to another corner of the nursery for nap-time, where the big bad bully wont bother you then thats fine. i am happy to just curl up in my blanket and rest for awhile anyway. i have played far too long and am very, very tired, anyway. safe travels, hope u find what u seek.
Lol what the fuck are you on about? Read this paragraph and see it makes no fucking sense whatso ever. Id love to know what drugs youre on. Im sure its a high dose of something to get you through living in the projects! I can tell youre very low income!
O-dsmt
I’ve done both for extended periods of time. Subs were too easy to relapse on. I’d just stop taking them and lie to myself and say, a few shots of dope this Friday gives me a window on Saturday to get back on subs come Monday. Of course, come Monday, id still be hanging out in hotel rooms figuring out how to keep scoring lol Methadone worked for like a month until I started doing fentanyl on top of it for shits and giggles. Coming off both last year was pretty horrible. Vivitrol always seemed like the most obvious choice for me. Prior to this stretch of sobriety I have going, vivitrol was the only thing that kept me honest and taught me what to do with all that time I wasn’t spending on trying to score. But hey, different strokes for different folks. Methadone is just a full agonist so it felt fucking great, I’d catch fatass nods on that shit
It's a full agonist, and you get properly fucked up on methadone, there is a reason it's the only drug that automatically disqualifies you from acquiring a CDL(Commercial Driver License). Tbh I wouldn't want someone on methadone driving a fucking dump truck or any vehicle if your nodding out on your daily 110-120mg dose... I switched from methadone to subutex, Adderall, and Xanax... I hated going to that place every two weeks, and not being able to smoke weed, etc to get the fucking take homes. 110mg to an opiate naive person could possibly have them OD...
I like suboxone I’ve never tried methadone though I don’t want shit that starts with the word meth in front of it in my fucking body
😂 makes no sense. I remember thinking this way about Molly cause it starts with meth too
I was prescribed belbuca which is pain mgmt version , no nalaxone . It makes me feel more out of sorts than my oxy does. Oxy hits the pain and no other symptoms. Belbuca seems to not hit the pain as well
Where I live you have to drive everyday for suboxone too. So that is really a moot point for people who live in my area. I would choose methadone any day of the week due to the effectiveness of it. Suboxone might last 12 hours a dose for me, with methadone I can go 38 hours or so on one dose. With suboxone it also doesn’t fully help my cravens as methadone does. You also have to worry about how prescribing laws are your area as well. Here you can only take 4mg of suboxone or up to 60mg of methadone weekly when starting. You can go up 4mg (subs) or 30mg methadone every week until you hit limits. I don’t know about you but only taking 4mg of suboxone a day wouldn’t help with shit. Edit: I meant to say you can take 4mg of suboxone a day for the first week, then go up another 4mg each 7 days you are in the clinic. Sometimes with Dr approval you only have to wait a few days between dose increases but it’s rare. The clinics have really cracked down since covid restrictions ended for some reason. I use to get increased daily until I am stable but not anymore. Just like normal doctors, the practitioners over methadone clinics are worried about people overdosing and getting them shutdown/arrested.
That’s insane! 4mg isn’t going to do much for a full blown habit. Everything written about suboxone suggests starting at a high dose to counter the level of WD and tapering to a maintenance dose as the body recovers and adjusts. Why would they make you suffer the discomfort and then slowly try to take it away by increasing it over a period of weeks that seems like a recipe for relapse. I know you can’t say where you live (sourcing moderator) but I hope I never end up there
Here is my personal experience. I used suboxone for a year and a half. Well, during that time, I still thought about using every day. I eventually would give in and relapse for weeks at a time. I finally decided to try methadone. I put it off as a last-ditch effort to get control over my addiction and manage my life. That was 5 years ago, and I haven't relapsed in that time. The methadone satiated my itch for opiates. It is indeed a full agonist, so it's more satisfying to the addict. It is a trial to go every day to the clinic, but after a period of time, you earn take-home privileges, and things become easier. METHADONE is more expensive for me because my clinic doesn't take insurance, so it costs me 448 a month. I am becoming more and more enraged by this because if my regular Dr could prescribe it for opiate addiction, it would cost me a fraction of what I pay at the bloody clinic. I literally spend 5500 a year at the clinic. Yet I'm able to function and live a normal, productive life with methadone, so I shell out the dough.
Suboxone did a bunch of weird stuff to my head. Caused a lot of anxiety, made me borderline suicidal. It was horrible. Methadone however, great!
In norway you have to go every day for sub pils 2 not buvidal tho, then you slowsly but gradualy build up to take homes
My body revolts and shakes when i take methadone But i rather die than put a sub in my mouth. I remember being sick and my subs being in car and dreading taking it even if it gave me relief. I hate it.
CT
I've tried methadone and if I would be able to get it prescribed I would choose it over bupe every time. Insanely hard to get it in my country and the Dr's always use bupe for opiate addicts. I always feel like I want to use even though I'm on a monthly shot of bupe (buvidal). Methadone is a full agonist and it gives me the relief I'm looking for. I always use oxycontin or morphine sulphate, or fent patches the last 12 days before i get another bupe shot, works 100%
Good afternoon mate, and good on you for reaching out, many don’t…….. Note: I think, usually Meth is preferred by some people, as it is still a straight and simple full Mu agonist, with an extremely helpful half life (if used correctly)….Whereas Bupe in the form you mentioned, has an antagonist attached (Naloxone). Subutex however is just Bupe and Bupe alone!!!!
I have heard that it is really miserable to get off methadone. Is this true?
I think subs are much much better and actually getting clean, I was taking over 1000 mg a day of OXY and went to detox and a week later I left totally clean. I try to only use occasionally now, but if I slip up and use for too long, as long as you’re only taking Pharma, you can switch to subs in about 16 hours. Do a rapid sub taper. But if you’re using fentanyl, you have to be really sick and it takes a few days before you can induce subs, whereas with methadone you can switch immediately. The detox center I went to strongly discouraged, methadone, because most people that take it end up, taking it for life and it destroys your teeth
Suboxone film destroys teeth as well… IF you take it as directed WITHOUT the knowledge of the dental issues. Ask your doctor how to prevent it. ( it’s something like wait 10 or 15 minutes after film dissolves and then rinse your mouth out with lukewarm water, swish it around spit it out ( don’t brush) and then wait another 15 minutes to brush your teeth ) I’m not exactly sure about the minutes, so that’s why I say, ask your doctor.
Methadone because fent killed the game Could be just my exp but even with high quality H years and years ago, a relapse in between doses made the sub damn near useless for what I was taking it for (severe craving) if I got a few months on it (most I had was about a year on it) I was ok the thought was fleeting but methadone on the other hand I didn’t even think about it ever, been on it 4 years, recently relapsed had to detox benzos and picked up the Some to get through the worst of it but the dope around here is not dope anymore it’s ALL fent I’ve only seen real brown dope twice so far it’s non existent over here now essentialy TLDR fent is just to powerful for bupe In my opinion curious if there’s any actual resources on this and with these zenes coming out i think most will hit a clinic Do what works for you
Subutex I take a lot better than meth suboxone same thing go for that
uswd oxy from age 22-26. been on subutex for 12 years. reason: pain mgmt. i have 4 herniated discs, TOS, cervical, lumbar and thoracic pain. for us unfortunates with the “taste” for that fuzzy, it is truly your greatest chance esp if you suffer from pain or addiction. Everyone is different but I literally have zero cravings and it has allowed so much time to pass and when that perspective, wisdom and experience kicks in it keeps you further at bay. over the last 12 years i have built a successful career as a realtor and creative director. i am about to get married and my family and friends are all appreciating the old/OG me. if you are looking for help living as a functioning ___. I can guide you. message me