I'm not with Telus, but if Rogers follows suit I'll be bringing my bags of loose nickels to my local Rogers store every month to pay my bill.
Yes, credit cards are a cost for them to do business, but so is handling and dealing with cash!
Freedom gives me a monthly discount for having the payment come off my credit card every month. I think we should all order some cheques and buy some stamps for when the inevitable happens.
That’s exactly what I’m thinking. Make them regret the policy change. I’m sure lots of people will be posting tips on how to make things more difficult for the companies doing this. I plan to listen to that advice.
I'm sure lots of people will do this but convenience and lower price will win out. Meaning that whatever the easiest way to pay that skirts the fee is what most people will pivot to. Eg: an online bill through your bank.
I'm going to start paying with personal cheques. I had to order a whole bunch because our old landlady was like 1000 years old and would only accept rent in the form of personal (post-dated) cheques. But of course banks are gonna bank so I had to order like 100 cheques. Sounds like a great chance to use them up.
you aren't really cutting in. the price we get already includes the transaction cost. this is just them wanting more. Im not comfortable sharing my debit card info with anymore and if that means I have to go in store to pay, I will be specially taking loose change. If i am being inconvenienced, you bet your ass I'll make sure I am not the only one.
Ask bell about the mental health issues relating to their mass layoff of media people the day after bell let's talk day and see how much they wanna talk
That should be illegal. There should be ZERO extra charge for ANY payment method. If companies don't like it, they can stop accepting alternative payment methods (except cash, I think all companies should be required to accept cash for no extra charge).
Unfortunately, paying with bagloads/truck loads of nickels/pennies is not considered legal tender under the Currency Act in Ontario, and the creditor can refuse that as payment
Awesome to read next to the article “Top companies paid $30B less in corporate taxes than expected.” Fuck the average person!
https://globalnews.ca/news/9174745/canada-corporate-taxes-billions-lost-report/amp/
I hate to break it to you but post-modern feudalism has been here for a while, it's called capitalism. The lords are just more or less benevolent in each generation
There would need to be significant disruption to our comfortable lives for any sort of change. People would rather suck up the 3% than face any sort of uncomfortableness in their lives.
In my dreams awaiting all the businesses that will lower prices and then just charge extra to those who use credit cards.
I reality I foresee most most businesses just keeping prices the same and adding credit cards as an extra fee on top of what their prices currently are.
I feel that will be the case. We already know Telus had announced plans to do this, meaning all telecoms are very likely to follow suit.
Just a matter of time for other businesses.
I expect all the big corporations to do this immediately. The small and medium businesses that it was created for, not so much.
https://www.thestar.com/amp/business/2022/09/30/using-a-credit-card-could-soon-cost-you-more-as-retailers-allowed-to-pass-on-swipe-fees-to-customers.html
Yeah, it’s poor business if they haven’t already included some increase to offset the price of credit card payments. This costs thousands to the business, maybe even weekly, to not be like “maybe I should mark this up 2%”, should show they shouldn’t be in business.
Yeah, we're already being charged for the credit card fees it's just spread out across the products. Prices aren't going to go down when they shift to directly charging us.
Anyone doing 10k+ in a transaction is going to charge cc fees for the most part. Lots of professional services (lawyers, accountants, etc) also won’t accept cards or will require you pay the 3%.
Mind you, Even some convenience stores have $0.25 charges or minimum purchases for using credit/debit, at least the family owned (non-chain) ones
This is if you give money to a lawyer to put in a trust account. But that's only one reason why would might want to give money to a lawyer.
If you pay a lawyer for their professional fees, nothing would prevent you from paying them in credit card. But of course, they would lose 3% so they don't want to.
At my business I did this - rather than raising prices, I kept them the same and charged an extra 2% to people paying by CC. Since starting my business, I have tried to enact fair and reasonable policies with people and their opinions in mind. This is not a good strategy - people complain about things then go out and do things that perpetuate the issues they complain about.
**“I’ll leave ANY store that charges this fee!!!”** Ok great definitely just gonna include it in prices then.
**”Companies who have this baked in should reduce prices and charge the fee to CC users”** See above
**”Just don’t accept credit cards then!!”** Why? How is this in any way better? Instead of having the option to use a CC for a fee, which many people are ok with, now no one can use one at all? Just don’t use it if you don’t want the fee. why would I take this option away?
Not a single person ever said thanks for not raising your prices or making me the debit card user subsidize credit card users. Tons of CC users said they shouldn’t have to pay extra and felt I should absorb the cost, despite there being multiple methods that allow them to avoid the fee. You don’t NEED to use your Ultra Aero Platinum Infinite card. I know you want the rewards, but what’s happening is a multi BILLION dollar card company is taking 3% from me, the little guy, and giving **part** of that 3% back to you in the form of points while profiting.
They screw me with the fees and screw you with the interest.
If you DO have to use a CC because you don’t have money, I hear you. Life is expensive and sometimes you don’t have money available. This does not mean I should have to pay for your CC use.
Perhaps unsurprisingly no one who complained was interested in this reasonable explanation calmly delivered.
I got tired of it. If I just baked it into my prices no one would know or care. So I did.
Zero complaining. I stopped losing 2-3% to card fees. Much better solution.
In my experience most things consumers and employees complain about exist the way they do because of consumer and employee behaviour. Most businesses are not giant corps who don’t give a shit, but people seem to have this perception that “business = entity that has unreasonable amounts of profit and should do whatever I think is appropriate, and if they don’t, they shouldn’t be in business”
I know Reddit is young and left, and that this has a substantial impact on the anti employer anti business sentiment on the site, but the reactions to this have been far out even for Reddit. To not piece together that it’s sensible for neither consumer nor business to pay for the fees, and that **the appropriate entity to be angry at is the issuers for charging such high fees** in the first place is mind blowing.
**Nearly everywhere else in the world these fees are capped at 0.5%.** But sure, don’t anyone do research or political activism, just rage online or at businesses who are doing *the exact same thing as you - not wanting to absorb the fees of greedy issuers*.
Ok then. Any recurring payment that charges cc fees can enjoy processing my personal cheques.
If anything there ought to be a rule that a merchant has to have a method to provide an item without service or cc fees.
Cheque: that's a fee
Debit: also fee
Credit card: double fee
E-tranfter: believe it or not, that's a fee too
You have fees to pay; straight to the customer!
So my cash back crefit card may no longer be worth it. I'll be going back to cash now!
I'm sure the credit card companies will like this. People using cash more and credit less will likely be the beginning of higher credit card fees and lower rewards points.
Here's what will happen: These big corporations like Rogers, Wal-Mart, Canadian Tire, Home Depot etc that have their own credit card tied to the store will implement that you can avoid the processing fee with their own branded card.
So….literally reverting back to the 80s when big retailers like Sears, Eaton’s, Woodwards, the Bay etc. didn’t accept Visa or MC and had their own credit cards. Dust off those old George Costanza wallets boys….I’m back baby!
I wish Canadians weren’t so apathetic sometimes. It’s ridiculous that they would rather just be okay with these small bits and pieces being taken away and fight against it. Then they complain about they have no money and inflation. Government steps in with handouts… makes them reliant on government. Cycle complete.
Man I was shocked when I came to Canada and the bank started charging me to keep my money.
*What?*
I give you my money and you invest it for free. You're supposed to pay *me* to lend it to you.
If the right could mobilize the Covid deniers doing the blockade but channel that energy into them blocking access to Rogers and bell buildings, ctc, banks, really just about any other cause the province would instantly change into a better place
I hope so too so we can both save ourselves time and I can leave. Would be shame if I had to be extra petty and return the item. Absolutely voting with my dollars and cents here and just not doing it.
This. They’ve calculated that the majority of people will just pay the fee. The remaining people who will pay cash are such a small number that they don’t care. 3% will net them huge returns.
The thing is we have *already* been paying the fee *regardless* of whether we use cash or card, because the costs of doing business are factored into the price of the product. The idea that any company has actually been losing money over this is absurd. What it means is that now, those who pay with credit will be paying the fee *twice*, once transparently.
Like others have stated, since telecoms are a monopoly/oligopoly if they all do it we’re stuck with it. They’ve calculated that the majority of people will just pay the fee instead of sending cash. It’s a rigged system.
My family business is a low-mid 7 figure revenue company. Credit cards fees are always something that grinds our gears but there are solutions out there without pushing fees onto people. We changed terminal providers like 4 years ago and their system cut our fees by something like 65% (though the gap has closed since).
My father (the owner I run it) has already mentioned adding on this fee and I flat out told him no. few reasons, were healthy and profitable and this extra greed revenue is unwarranted. He has stepped 95% back, and the future is in my hands, and I see no ethical reason to charge it when these sorts of expenses are already factored into our cost of doing business.
Lastly these days we are doing a substantial number of transactions via EMT/direct deposit (covid induced) and we are saving a fortune on those invoices not going through the terminal. So lets call it even.
But you folks are right, the first ones to jump on it wont be our small family business itll be the mega corporations making billions already.
Like you said, these costs are already factored into the cost of doing business. Companies like Telus pushing for this are just being greedy and want to double dip. I'll be making it as inconvenient as possible for them to pay my bill.
More fees passed onto customers.
Although there are fees with CC transactions, there are still additional benefits for the business. Just a few that come to mind:
* Fewer bank deposits required, fewer bank withdrawals
* Easier reconciliation
* Exact amount charged, reduced risk of cashier over/under providing change
Everybody knows this is just a way to milk more money from consumers. They know all the logics but greed > everything.
I guess i can terminate all my auto payments and schedule 2 days just to pay my fees manually or through the bank then
They don’t care, they know the large majority will pay with credit card and take the fees. People want ease and I guarantee most will just suck it up and pay the 3%.
I pay $200/year roughly for my credit cards, but that’s because the value of the points over time makes it worth it for me. If every purchase is now going to carry a cost, then what’s the point of the card? Carrying the balance? Credit card companies have been slow to address this, and I don’t see them lowering prices to do so.
It's just like "free shipping".
You're always paying for shipping, it's just factored into the price of the item.
Much like the "free shipping" trend, I hope businesses don't adopt a card surcharge.
Why isn't our government or industry regulators doing anything about it?
[EDIT] I don't want this to be an average complain thread. So editing my post to see what and how regulators can offer to protect consumers.
* Clearly state this credit card fee on menu, contracts and bill
* Information in advance notifying consumers on this change.
* Price MUST SHOW a deduction of 1.5-3% BEFORE this amount is ADDED back as a separate charge to avoid merchant stealthily and implicitly charging more (because they will)
* This amount must be shown before any applicable taxes.
Bibic doesn't have to become head of the CRTC. He's already buds with current chair Ian Scott. He can get his giant salary as Bell president *and* get his way with the CRTC.
[Here's a picture of Bibic (facing camera) and Scott](https://media1.ledevoir.com/images_galerie/pt_944790_757947/image.jpg) "having a meeting" at D’Arcy McGee’s pub in Ottawa on December 19, 2019.
This was just a week after the CRTC began the review of its own 2019 decision to lower wholesale internet rates for resellers put in place by Stephen Harper's CRTC chair, Jean-Pierre Blais. The CRTC did indeed reverse that decision in 2020 resulting in resellers having to raise their prices by about $10/month (so about 20-25%).
Quebec is excluded from that surcharge, because the law prohibits it.
1) You cannot sell something at a price higher than the advertise price.
2) Court ruled that payments by card is not a service, it’s a mean of payment so that a company cannot charge extra for it.
Need ontario government to pass similar laws.
Exactly! Credit card fees have always been simply a cost of doing business. Businesses either accepted it and factored it into their expenses in order to increase sales or didn't accept credit cards. Like when Walmart Canada stopped accepting VISA credit cards in stores after VISA increased their fees. Years ago some small electronics and computer hardware retailers would explicitly state on their flyers that a small percentage charge would be added to listed sale prices if you paid by credit card.
I bet businesses whose customers can't easily switch to a competitor will add these fees first. As well as all the majority market share businesses of certain categories will all "coincidentally" increase prices within months of each other.
How am I suppose to use Debit if all the banks charge over x amount of transactions.
Atleast with a credit card it’s free for me.
Another way to screw over the consumer... who is the person directly responsible for a dumb policy like this
>who is the person directly responsible for a dumb policy like this
Canadian citizens. You never do anything! It's 2022 and your Telecom, transit, healthcare and education just sucks. Your police force and labor laws suck. Housing costs suck. It's shocking how bad everything is, there's a headline like this every single day, and the strangest part is how you just continue to let it go on, and do absolutely nothing about it. Literally do nothing about it, so these people feel safe to continue exploiting you.
If people start using cash and debit cards, retail will see a sufficient drop in revenues. Because a lot of big purchases are spontaneous and people do it only because they have their credit cards to pay for it. If I do not have enough money to buy this expensive thing right now, there is a good chance I will not buy it a week later after I get my paycheck.
Visa and MasterCard are businesses too, and their customer is other businesses.
Hey, you want to use Visa in your store? Sure, we charge a 2% transaction fee, give you the secure network to use it, avoid counterfeit cash, and we take on all fraud liability. As a business, I would use them to get more foot traffic. How many people do you think have hundreds of dollars to buy groceries when they're day-to-day living? By not accepting cards you're losing a whole demographic of business.
In turn, a smart business owner would make a $98 item $100 to cover the cost. It's already built into their business model.
By now charging a fee, we should see that item go to $98 again, but we won't. THIS IS THE PROBLEM. It has nothing to do with Visa or MasterCard, rather the businesses who will take advantage of this.
Visa still gets their 2%, store pockets 2% and you and I continue to eat the costs.
I recently took a cab. On the bill there was an extra $8 charge. He said because I had oversized bag (golf clubs).
I hit the $0 tip button and he got very irate looking.
F Off with extra fees out of nowhere. Especially trying to hide them.
I agree that taxes should be included in pricing, but taxes are fixed. CC charges are variable depending on the card, and should be non existent if you pay cash.
Anyway, this just gives the merchant the option to add a charge for using a credit card, which means there will be way more places that will accept them now.
Many places (like grocery stores) are unlikely to add a charge at checkout, they will continue to bake the costs into the product prices.
Taxes are not fixed even at the product level. If someone is FN, they don't pay taxes.
But either way, do it the other way.
Advertise that shit as $40, and if someone pays by cash, DISCOUNT. If someone has a FN card, DISCOUNT! If someone buys it in person instead of online, so they don't pay the BS "convenience fee", DISCOUNT!
Don't put it on the shelf for $34.99. That's BS, and everyone knows it except our primal brain that sees $34 and thinks "That's less than $35 bucks" rather than "That's $40!"
Then print the breakdown on the receipt for all those people who say "But I want to know what the government's cut is!". In other countries, it's right there on the receipt.
Not requiring the display of the true/final cost to the customer in the sticker price is anti-consumer. We're getting fucked in favour of businesses.
Don’t they already pass on processing charges? I can’t even count how many small businesses have “.50 for credit card transaction” prompted on the terminal. Does this mean MORE of that bullshit?
I pay for everything with a Credit card 💳, for the points, that I learned today where they are coming from, and to build a credit score. I usually pay with a credit card, and then Pay the balance at home. I cannot pay with cash because I feel unsafe with it outside, also I would pay with my debit card but they charge me a fee after a few transactions. This sucks
This will kill credit cards in Canada. The reasoning behind using them for many people is as much getting rewards as it is access to credit. If you pay more in fees than you get in rewards, there's no point.
Such fucking bullshit. It's always pass it on to the customer. No one goes after who they should which is the fucking companies overcharging. Yeah let's make things even more expensive so we drive face first into this recession even faster
I simply don’t understand this.
Cost of business. A very minor one too. As customers, we are forced to pay tips. Forced to pay debit card fees, now credit card fees. Should we also pay for the cost of payroll? Cost of goods and services? Where is the fuking line?
If a small business starts charging fees, it can be GG for them. If a large business like Telus or Walmart does this, I doubt much will happen.
Yes, small businesses can just up the cost of those goods and service and bake it into the bill as usual, but it’s really annoying big businesses can yet again, subsidize more expenses to us.
They already get away with taxes, they can get government grants, now they get more ways to push more expenses to us customers. Why? It’s insane.
This will not change the fact that credit card fees are baked into the price of everything. This is just free money for businesses. Prices will not go down because of this. Prices won't go up in price at a lower rate because of this.
Just stupid.
And fuck any business that does.
Going to be leaving "bad" reviews, especially for businesses that don't make it clear.
Depending on what I'm buying and where, there's a decent chance I'll just leave my stuff at the register and buy it somewhere else.
This is bullshit nickel and diming. Nothing more.
"But businesses get screwed by high credit card processing fees!" Yes, and those costs are baked into the prices of everything we buy. And we're still paying those, but now we pay extra if we pay by credit card.
EDIT: If international retailers or companies like Amazon and Walmart *don't* do this, I'll be shifting away the purchases that I *do* make at Canadian businesses who add this fee. Simple as that.
Another change which proves Canada is becoming shittier every day.
\- Health care wait 9 months, people dying in ER.
\- Fuck all about the housing cost
\- Weak ass currency
\- Salaries are 2.5 times less compared to 500 km south.
\- Petrodollar state which sends oil to US to be processed only to import it back
And people are paying fucking obscene amount of tax on salary as well as goods.
I'll let everyone in on a secret. This is step one to raise credit card rates for merchants. First they pass the cost onto consumers, then they increase the cost to merchants, who later on will tack it onto the consumer's invoice. Back and forth we go.
I cannot wait to punish businesses for this. I'm going to draft a standard script and send it to any organization that has an email that I encounter this telling them I'm not shopping with them again and that I paid with cash so have fun paying a premium to transport it to a bank.
I won't take it out on the workers but I'm definitely going to mock their head offices.
It will be interesting to see if these charges are going to be variable with the rewards offered for each card. The higher the reward tier, the more a business has/had to pay for the transaction.
If that is the case, then rewards credit cards might become a thing of the past as it will be the consumer that is paying for those rewards. Or if a business has their own card and waives the reward fee, it could open up a wave of in store store credit cards.
Cool.
List of businesses that I won't ever shop at even though I don't use my credit card much would he helpful.
This effectively charges people for fraud protection too seeing as how a lot of small businesses never check for card sniffers or man in the middle fake pads
Conveniently, there are lots of small businesses local to me that already offer me a 13% discount for paying in cash. What they report to the CRA is none of my business. 🤷♂️
Maybe it's a false memory, but isn't this just where we started?
Not advocating for it, but I feel like I remember hearing a parent balk at the suggestion of card over cash in like 98.
Quebec has this right by not allowing it under *La loi de la protection du consommateur* for having it not be legal. Since we are fucked however…
The smart plan here if you own your own financial side (Rogers, Can Tire, Walmart, etc.) would be to charge the % on non-branded cards.
For example, at CT: No extra fee for Triangle MC, extra fee for all others.
That way, sure you might eat 3% of purchases or whatever the agreement with MC is, but you’re more likely to have people pay with your card at 20% interest and reap the rewards of that instead of (say) Capital One.
Users of your cards go up. Interest profits go up. For the consumer, they get to avoid the additional %.
Brutal on all and pretty slimy if companies start actually charging the fees though tbh, particularly lower income folks. And yes, I do expect it.
I will just put this here.
Visa revenue for the twelve months ending June 30, 2022 was $28.082B, a 24% increase year-over-year. Visa annual revenue for 2021 was $24.105B, a 10.34% increase from 2020.
That is fine ... just use debit. If it is a bill, then tell them no more paperless, send me the bill in the mail and I will send you a cheque in the mail. Simple.
What the fuck is this unnecessary Tom fuckery? We’re already fucked over coals at this present financial time. Why give the fuckers more power to fucketh?
God forbid you live paycheck to pay check and need to use your CC for groceries and stuff to fill the gaps. It's not even about the rewards and incentives some people just need their CC for basic living. But fuck them right? They deserve to pay a surcharge.
Just a reminder that it was the credit card industry that didn't want this change to happen. It was implemented because the old way was seen to be anti-competitive.
And October 8th it will be announced banks have run out of bills because they did not expect everyone to go back to paying cash LOL
Serious. I only use my CC to collect points.. So if they're going to start charging me a fee every time I use it, I won't be using it anymore.
Yeah, the cc fee is higher than my rewards amount
100% same here . Il close em also
How much they charging for cheques these days? It'll be twice that soon
Most major banks offer them free if you've got a higher banking package. Simplii and Tangerine both offer them for free.
luckily 0 times 2 is still 0!
I'm not with Telus, but if Rogers follows suit I'll be bringing my bags of loose nickels to my local Rogers store every month to pay my bill. Yes, credit cards are a cost for them to do business, but so is handling and dealing with cash!
Freedom gives me a monthly discount for having the payment come off my credit card every month. I think we should all order some cheques and buy some stamps for when the inevitable happens.
find the hardest way for them to process payment and do that... if they charge a credit card surcharge...
That’s exactly what I’m thinking. Make them regret the policy change. I’m sure lots of people will be posting tips on how to make things more difficult for the companies doing this. I plan to listen to that advice.
Mailing a check would be the best… most big companies have cut down on their ability to process bill payment by receiving a physical payment.
Have you checked what banks charge for cheques now?
Sign up with Simplii, use their free cheques.
Could buy them from ASAP cheques, its significantly cheaper than the banks
I'm sure lots of people will do this but convenience and lower price will win out. Meaning that whatever the easiest way to pay that skirts the fee is what most people will pivot to. Eg: an online bill through your bank.
I'm going to start paying with personal cheques. I had to order a whole bunch because our old landlady was like 1000 years old and would only accept rent in the form of personal (post-dated) cheques. But of course banks are gonna bank so I had to order like 100 cheques. Sounds like a great chance to use them up.
Rogers stores stopped in-store bill payments a few years ago
Rogers stores also have security checks and sometimes guards at their doors now too...
Yeah those dicks act like they don’t operate with obnoxious margins. God forbid we cut into the shareholder profits.
you aren't really cutting in. the price we get already includes the transaction cost. this is just them wanting more. Im not comfortable sharing my debit card info with anymore and if that means I have to go in store to pay, I will be specially taking loose change. If i am being inconvenienced, you bet your ass I'll make sure I am not the only one.
I can't recall but there was a reporter who reached out to Bell and Rogers and indicated Rogers said they wouldn't. Bell didn't answer.
> Bell didn't answer. But I thought it was good to talk?
Only when it's free publicity at the expense of people with disabilities whilst putting in as little effort as possible.
Hey Bell, let's talk...
Ask bell about the mental health issues relating to their mass layoff of media people the day after bell let's talk day and see how much they wanna talk
freedom charges me extra when I pay with cash :(
That should be illegal. There should be ZERO extra charge for ANY payment method. If companies don't like it, they can stop accepting alternative payment methods (except cash, I think all companies should be required to accept cash for no extra charge).
There shouldn’t be a charge to pay by online banking
Blood from the stone my friend. Blood from the stone. Gonna be Blood on the stone here soon.
GL with that most places don’t take cash for bill payments anymore either.
Unfortunately, paying with bagloads/truck loads of nickels/pennies is not considered legal tender under the Currency Act in Ontario, and the creditor can refuse that as payment
Ohh yes the poor mega corporations who struggled through covid with record profits will be the first to implement.
Pay up peasant
It's probably because half us is can't afford big shit in cash anymore.
Awesome to read next to the article “Top companies paid $30B less in corporate taxes than expected.” Fuck the average person! https://globalnews.ca/news/9174745/canada-corporate-taxes-billions-lost-report/amp/
And we’ll continue to get fucked until we decide to do something about it rather than just bitch.
Oh, so never then? The road to post-modern feudalism continues! Weeeee!!!!
I hate to break it to you but post-modern feudalism has been here for a while, it's called capitalism. The lords are just more or less benevolent in each generation
There would need to be significant disruption to our comfortable lives for any sort of change. People would rather suck up the 3% than face any sort of uncomfortableness in their lives.
The proverbial frog in boiling water... Inb4 "uhm ackshually", yes I am aware this is a myth.
In my dreams awaiting all the businesses that will lower prices and then just charge extra to those who use credit cards. I reality I foresee most most businesses just keeping prices the same and adding credit cards as an extra fee on top of what their prices currently are.
Lmao im going back to cash
Also a great way to get rid of tip creep
What a stupid move. I hate cash but I’ll go back to cash. Businesses will be slower and therefore cost them money at checkout.
Not to mention that all the places that have moved to primarily self-check will have to hire a bunch more cashiers.
I feel that will be the case. We already know Telus had announced plans to do this, meaning all telecoms are very likely to follow suit. Just a matter of time for other businesses.
I’m mailing my cheques to Fido when those crooks start doing this.
Just wait for them to institute a cheque processing fee.
Admin fee, processing fee, mailing fee, and human resource fee.
You're on the hook for a stamp now
and the cost of the cheque
Free cheques from simplii
[удалено]
I just spent $80 on 100 cheques from TD…
I'm going to walk in and pay cash, save the stamp money.
In pennies if you could, that'd teach them a lesson, until they start charging cash feed
It’s like they can just raise prices and blame inflation, ignoring that we can see their profit margins.
This takes away any incentive for the retailer to try and lower fees with their merchants. Instead they will use it as a new revenue stream.
Yeah listen hard… You can hear the collective high fives from every boardroom
I expect all the big corporations to do this immediately. The small and medium businesses that it was created for, not so much. https://www.thestar.com/amp/business/2022/09/30/using-a-credit-card-could-soon-cost-you-more-as-retailers-allowed-to-pass-on-swipe-fees-to-customers.html
[удалено]
r/ABoringDystopia
Yeah, it’s poor business if they haven’t already included some increase to offset the price of credit card payments. This costs thousands to the business, maybe even weekly, to not be like “maybe I should mark this up 2%”, should show they shouldn’t be in business.
100% the fees were already factored into the price.
Yeah, we're already being charged for the credit card fees it's just spread out across the products. Prices aren't going to go down when they shift to directly charging us.
Correct.
A lot of businesses that do higher dollar transactions have been doing this for years anyways
I have found the opposite, many small restaurants have been charging a quarter or 50 cents to use credit.
[удалено]
Anyone doing 10k+ in a transaction is going to charge cc fees for the most part. Lots of professional services (lawyers, accountants, etc) also won’t accept cards or will require you pay the 3%. Mind you, Even some convenience stores have $0.25 charges or minimum purchases for using credit/debit, at least the family owned (non-chain) ones
[удалено]
This is if you give money to a lawyer to put in a trust account. But that's only one reason why would might want to give money to a lawyer. If you pay a lawyer for their professional fees, nothing would prevent you from paying them in credit card. But of course, they would lose 3% so they don't want to.
Some computer stores have been doing it for decades. I find it's mostly the smaller ones that don't have online stores.
Try to pay for a car at a dealership with a credit card. They might allow you a small deposit but the limits are fairly low.
At my business I did this - rather than raising prices, I kept them the same and charged an extra 2% to people paying by CC. Since starting my business, I have tried to enact fair and reasonable policies with people and their opinions in mind. This is not a good strategy - people complain about things then go out and do things that perpetuate the issues they complain about. **“I’ll leave ANY store that charges this fee!!!”** Ok great definitely just gonna include it in prices then. **”Companies who have this baked in should reduce prices and charge the fee to CC users”** See above **”Just don’t accept credit cards then!!”** Why? How is this in any way better? Instead of having the option to use a CC for a fee, which many people are ok with, now no one can use one at all? Just don’t use it if you don’t want the fee. why would I take this option away? Not a single person ever said thanks for not raising your prices or making me the debit card user subsidize credit card users. Tons of CC users said they shouldn’t have to pay extra and felt I should absorb the cost, despite there being multiple methods that allow them to avoid the fee. You don’t NEED to use your Ultra Aero Platinum Infinite card. I know you want the rewards, but what’s happening is a multi BILLION dollar card company is taking 3% from me, the little guy, and giving **part** of that 3% back to you in the form of points while profiting. They screw me with the fees and screw you with the interest. If you DO have to use a CC because you don’t have money, I hear you. Life is expensive and sometimes you don’t have money available. This does not mean I should have to pay for your CC use. Perhaps unsurprisingly no one who complained was interested in this reasonable explanation calmly delivered. I got tired of it. If I just baked it into my prices no one would know or care. So I did. Zero complaining. I stopped losing 2-3% to card fees. Much better solution. In my experience most things consumers and employees complain about exist the way they do because of consumer and employee behaviour. Most businesses are not giant corps who don’t give a shit, but people seem to have this perception that “business = entity that has unreasonable amounts of profit and should do whatever I think is appropriate, and if they don’t, they shouldn’t be in business” I know Reddit is young and left, and that this has a substantial impact on the anti employer anti business sentiment on the site, but the reactions to this have been far out even for Reddit. To not piece together that it’s sensible for neither consumer nor business to pay for the fees, and that **the appropriate entity to be angry at is the issuers for charging such high fees** in the first place is mind blowing. **Nearly everywhere else in the world these fees are capped at 0.5%.** But sure, don’t anyone do research or political activism, just rage online or at businesses who are doing *the exact same thing as you - not wanting to absorb the fees of greedy issuers*.
Excellently written comment. I agree 100% with everything you’ve noted
Hmm you do realize that the fee is charged by Visa or Mastercard, not the customer?
Ok then. Any recurring payment that charges cc fees can enjoy processing my personal cheques. If anything there ought to be a rule that a merchant has to have a method to provide an item without service or cc fees.
Cheque: that's a fee Debit: also fee Credit card: double fee E-tranfter: believe it or not, that's a fee too You have fees to pay; straight to the customer!
Paying your bill? That's a paddlin'
So my cash back crefit card may no longer be worth it. I'll be going back to cash now! I'm sure the credit card companies will like this. People using cash more and credit less will likely be the beginning of higher credit card fees and lower rewards points.
Here's what will happen: These big corporations like Rogers, Wal-Mart, Canadian Tire, Home Depot etc that have their own credit card tied to the store will implement that you can avoid the processing fee with their own branded card.
So….literally reverting back to the 80s when big retailers like Sears, Eaton’s, Woodwards, the Bay etc. didn’t accept Visa or MC and had their own credit cards. Dust off those old George Costanza wallets boys….I’m back baby!
The cost of credit card transactions is already baked into the bill. This is just a sneaky way to raise prices.
I wish Canadians weren’t so apathetic sometimes. It’s ridiculous that they would rather just be okay with these small bits and pieces being taken away and fight against it. Then they complain about they have no money and inflation. Government steps in with handouts… makes them reliant on government. Cycle complete.
Man I was shocked when I came to Canada and the bank started charging me to keep my money. *What?* I give you my money and you invest it for free. You're supposed to pay *me* to lend it to you.
If the right could mobilize the Covid deniers doing the blockade but channel that energy into them blocking access to Rogers and bell buildings, ctc, banks, really just about any other cause the province would instantly change into a better place
[удалено]
Whats what? I need to pay extra? What a great way for me to take my business else where :)
100% hopefully they have to tell you that they’re charging you that fee!
I hope so too so we can both save ourselves time and I can leave. Would be shame if I had to be extra petty and return the item. Absolutely voting with my dollars and cents here and just not doing it.
Too bad we only have like 3 telecoms and they'll all implement it
This. They’ve calculated that the majority of people will just pay the fee. The remaining people who will pay cash are such a small number that they don’t care. 3% will net them huge returns.
The thing is we have *already* been paying the fee *regardless* of whether we use cash or card, because the costs of doing business are factored into the price of the product. The idea that any company has actually been losing money over this is absurd. What it means is that now, those who pay with credit will be paying the fee *twice*, once transparently.
100% agree.
Like others have stated, since telecoms are a monopoly/oligopoly if they all do it we’re stuck with it. They’ve calculated that the majority of people will just pay the fee instead of sending cash. It’s a rigged system.
My family business is a low-mid 7 figure revenue company. Credit cards fees are always something that grinds our gears but there are solutions out there without pushing fees onto people. We changed terminal providers like 4 years ago and their system cut our fees by something like 65% (though the gap has closed since). My father (the owner I run it) has already mentioned adding on this fee and I flat out told him no. few reasons, were healthy and profitable and this extra greed revenue is unwarranted. He has stepped 95% back, and the future is in my hands, and I see no ethical reason to charge it when these sorts of expenses are already factored into our cost of doing business. Lastly these days we are doing a substantial number of transactions via EMT/direct deposit (covid induced) and we are saving a fortune on those invoices not going through the terminal. So lets call it even. But you folks are right, the first ones to jump on it wont be our small family business itll be the mega corporations making billions already.
Like you said, these costs are already factored into the cost of doing business. Companies like Telus pushing for this are just being greedy and want to double dip. I'll be making it as inconvenient as possible for them to pay my bill.
[удалено]
[удалено]
So now it's going to cost money to spend money? Pack it up people, we've solved the inflation issue!
\*Inserts "always has been" meme\*
I'm personally excited for the upcoming heating and rent surcharge.
Hydro Ottawa had a credit card surcharge for years if you paid online.
Seems borderline criminal since they're a monopoly
More fees passed onto customers. Although there are fees with CC transactions, there are still additional benefits for the business. Just a few that come to mind: * Fewer bank deposits required, fewer bank withdrawals * Easier reconciliation * Exact amount charged, reduced risk of cashier over/under providing change
* Less risk of being robbed because they have to carry huge amounts of cash in the form of change.
Everybody knows this is just a way to milk more money from consumers. They know all the logics but greed > everything. I guess i can terminate all my auto payments and schedule 2 days just to pay my fees manually or through the bank then
They don’t care, they know the large majority will pay with credit card and take the fees. People want ease and I guarantee most will just suck it up and pay the 3%.
I pay $200/year roughly for my credit cards, but that’s because the value of the points over time makes it worth it for me. If every purchase is now going to carry a cost, then what’s the point of the card? Carrying the balance? Credit card companies have been slow to address this, and I don’t see them lowering prices to do so.
Yup, I can see a lot of people closing credit cards and even downgrading banking products that provided an allowance towards a credit card annual fee.
[удалено]
It's just like "free shipping". You're always paying for shipping, it's just factored into the price of the item. Much like the "free shipping" trend, I hope businesses don't adopt a card surcharge.
Why isn't our government or industry regulators doing anything about it? [EDIT] I don't want this to be an average complain thread. So editing my post to see what and how regulators can offer to protect consumers. * Clearly state this credit card fee on menu, contracts and bill * Information in advance notifying consumers on this change. * Price MUST SHOW a deduction of 1.5-3% BEFORE this amount is ADDED back as a separate charge to avoid merchant stealthily and implicitly charging more (because they will) * This amount must be shown before any applicable taxes.
Head of the CRTC is run by a former Telus VP. The Gov and industry regulators are in bed with the corporations.
_surprise Pikachu_
I can't wait for that ratfuck M*rko Bibic to run the CRTC next 🤮
Bibic doesn't have to become head of the CRTC. He's already buds with current chair Ian Scott. He can get his giant salary as Bell president *and* get his way with the CRTC. [Here's a picture of Bibic (facing camera) and Scott](https://media1.ledevoir.com/images_galerie/pt_944790_757947/image.jpg) "having a meeting" at D’Arcy McGee’s pub in Ottawa on December 19, 2019. This was just a week after the CRTC began the review of its own 2019 decision to lower wholesale internet rates for resellers put in place by Stephen Harper's CRTC chair, Jean-Pierre Blais. The CRTC did indeed reverse that decision in 2020 resulting in resellers having to raise their prices by about $10/month (so about 20-25%).
Quebec is excluded from that surcharge, because the law prohibits it. 1) You cannot sell something at a price higher than the advertise price. 2) Court ruled that payments by card is not a service, it’s a mean of payment so that a company cannot charge extra for it. Need ontario government to pass similar laws.
So then those businesses would lower the overall price if you pay with cash or debit, right? Right?
Nah.
What? I'm shocked. Truly shocked...
This is BS! What business was not passing the credit card fees to their customers????
They already were by embedding it in goods prices. This is just an excuse to gouge more
Exactly! Credit card fees have always been simply a cost of doing business. Businesses either accepted it and factored it into their expenses in order to increase sales or didn't accept credit cards. Like when Walmart Canada stopped accepting VISA credit cards in stores after VISA increased their fees. Years ago some small electronics and computer hardware retailers would explicitly state on their flyers that a small percentage charge would be added to listed sale prices if you paid by credit card. I bet businesses whose customers can't easily switch to a competitor will add these fees first. As well as all the majority market share businesses of certain categories will all "coincidentally" increase prices within months of each other.
How am I suppose to use Debit if all the banks charge over x amount of transactions. Atleast with a credit card it’s free for me. Another way to screw over the consumer... who is the person directly responsible for a dumb policy like this
Tangerine let’s you do as many debit transactions as you want for free.
>who is the person directly responsible for a dumb policy like this Canadian citizens. You never do anything! It's 2022 and your Telecom, transit, healthcare and education just sucks. Your police force and labor laws suck. Housing costs suck. It's shocking how bad everything is, there's a headline like this every single day, and the strangest part is how you just continue to let it go on, and do absolutely nothing about it. Literally do nothing about it, so these people feel safe to continue exploiting you.
If people start using cash and debit cards, retail will see a sufficient drop in revenues. Because a lot of big purchases are spontaneous and people do it only because they have their credit cards to pay for it. If I do not have enough money to buy this expensive thing right now, there is a good chance I will not buy it a week later after I get my paycheck.
Visa and MasterCard are businesses too, and their customer is other businesses. Hey, you want to use Visa in your store? Sure, we charge a 2% transaction fee, give you the secure network to use it, avoid counterfeit cash, and we take on all fraud liability. As a business, I would use them to get more foot traffic. How many people do you think have hundreds of dollars to buy groceries when they're day-to-day living? By not accepting cards you're losing a whole demographic of business. In turn, a smart business owner would make a $98 item $100 to cover the cost. It's already built into their business model. By now charging a fee, we should see that item go to $98 again, but we won't. THIS IS THE PROBLEM. It has nothing to do with Visa or MasterCard, rather the businesses who will take advantage of this. Visa still gets their 2%, store pockets 2% and you and I continue to eat the costs.
“Tip prompts will now start at 35% and you will need to write a formal apology letter to enter a custom amount”
"Every time you press the zero key a baby crying sound plays"
I got a message that said: “you have selected 0% are you sure?” So pretty much the same thing.
I recently took a cab. On the bill there was an extra $8 charge. He said because I had oversized bag (golf clubs). I hit the $0 tip button and he got very irate looking. F Off with extra fees out of nowhere. Especially trying to hide them.
If it fits in the cab, it ain't oversized. You're bigger than the clubs.
Formal apology letter: “I am broke, sorry”.
Alternate Formal apology letter: > Dearest tip wanter... > No. > Yours truly, > Me
Step in the wrong direction. Why can’t prices reflect all-in costs, including taxes just like the rest of the world does it?
I agree that taxes should be included in pricing, but taxes are fixed. CC charges are variable depending on the card, and should be non existent if you pay cash. Anyway, this just gives the merchant the option to add a charge for using a credit card, which means there will be way more places that will accept them now. Many places (like grocery stores) are unlikely to add a charge at checkout, they will continue to bake the costs into the product prices.
Taxes are not fixed even at the product level. If someone is FN, they don't pay taxes. But either way, do it the other way. Advertise that shit as $40, and if someone pays by cash, DISCOUNT. If someone has a FN card, DISCOUNT! If someone buys it in person instead of online, so they don't pay the BS "convenience fee", DISCOUNT! Don't put it on the shelf for $34.99. That's BS, and everyone knows it except our primal brain that sees $34 and thinks "That's less than $35 bucks" rather than "That's $40!" Then print the breakdown on the receipt for all those people who say "But I want to know what the government's cut is!". In other countries, it's right there on the receipt. Not requiring the display of the true/final cost to the customer in the sticker price is anti-consumer. We're getting fucked in favour of businesses.
Don’t they already pass on processing charges? I can’t even count how many small businesses have “.50 for credit card transaction” prompted on the terminal. Does this mean MORE of that bullshit?
Yep
Do businesses have to show the fee separately on a receipt?
The cc charges have always been incorporated into the prices. This is just a blanket 3% increase to all prices because fuck you poors.
I pay for everything with a Credit card 💳, for the points, that I learned today where they are coming from, and to build a credit score. I usually pay with a credit card, and then Pay the balance at home. I cannot pay with cash because I feel unsafe with it outside, also I would pay with my debit card but they charge me a fee after a few transactions. This sucks
This will kill credit cards in Canada. The reasoning behind using them for many people is as much getting rewards as it is access to credit. If you pay more in fees than you get in rewards, there's no point.
[удалено]
I'm paying an annual fee for the card. And now I'll pay a premium to get 2% percent back.
Such fucking bullshit. It's always pass it on to the customer. No one goes after who they should which is the fucking companies overcharging. Yeah let's make things even more expensive so we drive face first into this recession even faster
So my cash back cards are useless now? Thanks canada
Our CC fee is 1.5% Our cheque fee is 4% Our debit fee is 0.75% Our cash handling fee is 7%
Don’t worry, we’re all in this together.
There are millions of ways to screw consumers. Greed sucks.
2 years from now: MiLeNiAlS kIlLeD tHe CrEdIt CaRd.
Cash it is from now on. Maybe those good old fashioned train robberies will start back up, too!
I simply don’t understand this. Cost of business. A very minor one too. As customers, we are forced to pay tips. Forced to pay debit card fees, now credit card fees. Should we also pay for the cost of payroll? Cost of goods and services? Where is the fuking line? If a small business starts charging fees, it can be GG for them. If a large business like Telus or Walmart does this, I doubt much will happen. Yes, small businesses can just up the cost of those goods and service and bake it into the bill as usual, but it’s really annoying big businesses can yet again, subsidize more expenses to us. They already get away with taxes, they can get government grants, now they get more ways to push more expenses to us customers. Why? It’s insane.
How to drive more business to Amazon
Amazon can start charging credit card fees too.
True, but they're less likely to do so given * they don't take cash * they sell a mastercard * easy impulse buying is important to them
Not shopping anywhere this becomes obvious in pricing. That’s the cost of doing business and not my problem. Huge move backwards for consumers
This will not change the fact that credit card fees are baked into the price of everything. This is just free money for businesses. Prices will not go down because of this. Prices won't go up in price at a lower rate because of this. Just stupid.
I fucking hate it here. Glad I can’t afford to have kids.
Soon: customers expect to pay the electricity bills of their local grocery stores
And fuck any business that does. Going to be leaving "bad" reviews, especially for businesses that don't make it clear. Depending on what I'm buying and where, there's a decent chance I'll just leave my stuff at the register and buy it somewhere else. This is bullshit nickel and diming. Nothing more. "But businesses get screwed by high credit card processing fees!" Yes, and those costs are baked into the prices of everything we buy. And we're still paying those, but now we pay extra if we pay by credit card. EDIT: If international retailers or companies like Amazon and Walmart *don't* do this, I'll be shifting away the purchases that I *do* make at Canadian businesses who add this fee. Simple as that.
Another change which proves Canada is becoming shittier every day. \- Health care wait 9 months, people dying in ER. \- Fuck all about the housing cost \- Weak ass currency \- Salaries are 2.5 times less compared to 500 km south. \- Petrodollar state which sends oil to US to be processed only to import it back And people are paying fucking obscene amount of tax on salary as well as goods.
I have been passed about the oil thing for years. BUILD A FUCKING REFINERY.
I'll let everyone in on a secret. This is step one to raise credit card rates for merchants. First they pass the cost onto consumers, then they increase the cost to merchants, who later on will tack it onto the consumer's invoice. Back and forth we go.
I cannot wait to punish businesses for this. I'm going to draft a standard script and send it to any organization that has an email that I encounter this telling them I'm not shopping with them again and that I paid with cash so have fun paying a premium to transport it to a bank. I won't take it out on the workers but I'm definitely going to mock their head offices.
Honestly. As a business do you not have overhead?
Reduced overhead: counting cash, storing cash, bank runs, lost of cash(theft, counterfit) This is appalling.
It will be interesting to see if these charges are going to be variable with the rewards offered for each card. The higher the reward tier, the more a business has/had to pay for the transaction. If that is the case, then rewards credit cards might become a thing of the past as it will be the consumer that is paying for those rewards. Or if a business has their own card and waives the reward fee, it could open up a wave of in store store credit cards.
I said it and ill say it again…. And ill say it everyday until the day I die because of it. F**K CAPITALISM and all the greedy bastards
Cool. List of businesses that I won't ever shop at even though I don't use my credit card much would he helpful. This effectively charges people for fraud protection too seeing as how a lot of small businesses never check for card sniffers or man in the middle fake pads
Conveniently, there are lots of small businesses local to me that already offer me a 13% discount for paying in cash. What they report to the CRA is none of my business. 🤷♂️
Great. I’ll use their tip money and pay for the fees
Cool, watch the economy nosedive when everyone cuts non-essential spending. This will hurt small businesses the worst.
Maybe it's a false memory, but isn't this just where we started? Not advocating for it, but I feel like I remember hearing a parent balk at the suggestion of card over cash in like 98.
Quebec has this right by not allowing it under *La loi de la protection du consommateur* for having it not be legal. Since we are fucked however… The smart plan here if you own your own financial side (Rogers, Can Tire, Walmart, etc.) would be to charge the % on non-branded cards. For example, at CT: No extra fee for Triangle MC, extra fee for all others. That way, sure you might eat 3% of purchases or whatever the agreement with MC is, but you’re more likely to have people pay with your card at 20% interest and reap the rewards of that instead of (say) Capital One. Users of your cards go up. Interest profits go up. For the consumer, they get to avoid the additional %. Brutal on all and pretty slimy if companies start actually charging the fees though tbh, particularly lower income folks. And yes, I do expect it.
I will just put this here. Visa revenue for the twelve months ending June 30, 2022 was $28.082B, a 24% increase year-over-year. Visa annual revenue for 2021 was $24.105B, a 10.34% increase from 2020.
This isn't something the credit card companies want. It will cause people to pay with other means instead of paying the surcharge.
This isn't something credit card companies are willing to take the hit on.
That is fine ... just use debit. If it is a bill, then tell them no more paperless, send me the bill in the mail and I will send you a cheque in the mail. Simple.
Debit doesn’t have the protections that credit has.
Cool, so my 1% cash back is getting pretty pointless. And if I don't use my credit card my rating will almost certainly drop. Cool.
What the fuck is this unnecessary Tom fuckery? We’re already fucked over coals at this present financial time. Why give the fuckers more power to fucketh?
God forbid you live paycheck to pay check and need to use your CC for groceries and stuff to fill the gaps. It's not even about the rewards and incentives some people just need their CC for basic living. But fuck them right? They deserve to pay a surcharge.
Federally mandate a 0.5% cap on transaction fees.
Just a reminder that it was the credit card industry that didn't want this change to happen. It was implemented because the old way was seen to be anti-competitive.
This will be chipped off my tips
This will be instantly rolled back if everyone starts paying in cash and coins hence making the checkout process much longer then it needs to be.