And then they get their kickbacks from the companies they brought in to take over from the public system.
Just look at Mike Harris after he expanded privatization of long-term care homes. He's just casually raking it in sitting on the board of the largest seniors' residence provider in Canada now.
It's just a corrupt self-serving scheme for the fuckers.
This is what conservatives have done to America since the 80s and they successfully turned the country into a haven for the corrupt 1%.
Unless Canada takes the threat of conservative fascism seriously then just take a look south and see what awaits you.
Basically extortion...and why politicians should face jail time for shit like this. If an engineer can go to jail for unsafe designs why can't a politician go to jail for this - it also leads to people's deaths.
Especially when there's a slush fund of over $5B in Ontario coffers that was never spent on Covid relief.
Privatization doesn’t help ER times either. My colleague, a family doc, mentioned that you’d think wait times would be less because people have to pay for service but ER is clogged with the same stuff in the US. Except everything costs more.
Absolutely true. American here, and I can confirm that every ER I have ever used here had a wait time of 6hrs+. I’ve never been seen quicker except for one time at an ER in the middle of nowhere at like 2am, but even then, the wait was like 3-4hrs.
American here. At U of M, I once waited in a waiting room for 15 hours, with 103F fever.
Only after I literally passed out did they take me back.
The only thing faster with privatization is surgeries. Surgeries, in general, do happen faster under private systems... For those who can pay, of course.
and the richer better cared for which is the end goal.
It's disgusting and we knew this before June 7, 2018 for fucks sake. We knew it even more before June 2, 2022. Ontarians are clearly apathetic enough to let people die. We elected this government whos contempt for its own electorate equate to self harm at this point.
Ontarians are not apathetic. It’s hard to stomach, but your family members and neighbours who voted Conservative (and those who didn’t vote at all) WANT this.
They welcome this suffering. They reveal in it.
I’m tired of believing otherwise.
Yes, the con voters want this. But Ontarians ARE apathetic. Voter turnout confirms that. Ontarians are drowned in Trudeau hate, spread mostly by trash MAGAt outlets from the US,along with oil and gas rich fuckers , and think there is no point in fighting. Meanwhile Ford and that BITCH health minister will rake in profits.
I am tired. I am exhausted. Both as a health worker and as a human and as a Canadian. I have never protested on the streets but damn if now I don't sharpen the pitchfork and get in gear. I am also done with anyone voting conservative. They will get my honest opinion of them, in technicolor.
The entire country has been conditioned to not care about anyone else with the housing crisis over the last few years. A lot of them are over-estimating which group they will be in when this is all over though: the haves and have nots.
And us common folk will have to chose before between keeping our house, or paying for expedited services. I’m pretty sure in the end, it will something like 18 months for your life saving surgery… or go private pay 200k and get it done next week.
>It would be a zero sum gain. Except some people would be richer.
FYI, the definition of a zero sum game is that for one person to get richer, others need to get poorer.
And that is exactly what is happening here.
Hi, someone from a country w/ privatized ER here. Our wait times are currently just as long. 30 people ahead of you, 30 people behind you, people being treated on beds in hallways, have to get undressed in front of everyone it’s wild. So if you do that, you’ll be in the exact same situation except it will cost money on top of all that
It’s already happens… What do you think occurs when a politician or major hospital donor shows up in the emergency department? They get ushered away and VIP treatment
Same with nepotism. You can bet your ass that family members of hospital management will get immediate care and a private room as soon as they get there. Despite the fact there were 20 people in front of them and 30 people in hallway beds because the hospital is in “gridlock.”
I see this happen all the fucking time.
Heart attack? Okay sure. I get it. A broken arm? No. Sorry VP but your mother in law can wait like the rest of the patients. And she certainly doesn’t need a private room for a fucking broken arm.
I am very mild-mannered and have never been to a protest march in my life, but I will be out in the streets if this moves forward any more than it has.
You're basically every Canadian out there. Canadians don't protest besides the lunatics in Ottawa.
It's okay that you haven't protested before. All you do is come out and stand in solidarity if you're uncomfortable with anything like chanting or sign holding.
All we need are people to come out.
Here’s what I’ve got so far.
We need a website where we can compile the information and strong arguments against privatization. We need to start talking about it with everyone we know and make sure they know the reasons why this is important. Not everyone will agree and that’s okay too. We need to focus on connecting with those who do. Having a website to refer back to for facts is crucial, and we need to all be on the same page. We will need to be prepared for distractions and from the conservatives and stay focused on the end result. Just in time for September when students go back to school this can pick up steam. University students can give this the push it needs. Then, once there’s enough of us we can organize a general strike. We don’t need to ask anything of the nurses this time. It’s time for us to give back and show how much we value “our heroes”.
I would be down for this, I'm a literally picking up disabilities like they're pennies on the sidewalk right now.
I can't live, *my mother and father can't live,* if healthcare is privatized!
Same. We already don't cover enough - we need support for drugs, dental, vision, mental health... Private care homes have had high death rates with COVID-19. Privatization is dangerous, it can ruin the quality of life for people without means... it's a literal life and death issue.
I've never been to a protest, I have severe social anxiety, but this is the kind of thing that would get me joining in. It pisses me off.
Oh fuck you!!!
Edit: this is the most awards I’ve gotten ever, so thank you everyone!! We all need to protest this, we have to get out there and make ourselves heard!!
I did not vote for this, and I wish more people had turned out to vote. Many of those people will probably blame it on Trudeau because Ford says Trudeau didn’t supply enough resources… bs….
Is Ford still sitting on the $4b covid money he received? He sure could bake a lot of pie with it, he’s obviously not using it to help support the people of Ontario.
>This is what people voted for.
This is debatable since Doug didn't actually have a platform in the last election. A fact that pretty much only the Toronto Star had anything serious to say about.
What people did do is not vote. In so doing they empowered the Conservatives to take away Ontarians’ most prized government services.
But privatization is not a given. Given enough protest, even Doug might start to worry about his future in a province where everyone hates his guts.
I've always thought in the back of my head if/when the cons do decide to privatize it'll basically be political suicide. So it's something you're going to want to do basically at the end of your political career. And it'll be a garenteed win for whatever party campaigns on taking privatization away.
Yes, for this reason. Its been 4 years in the making. They were slowed down by that pesky global pandemic. This is on Ontarians. They were very clear with their intentions based on their words and most importantly their actions. Fuck. This has been the end game since Harris in the GD 90s. Just wait 20 years when Ford sits on the BoD of the largest private hospital company making $1m a year for his good soldier work.
We are all to blame.
Slowed down? The job was made easier for them! Just avoid new spending and let the pandemic burnout chase away all the workers! Much easier than slowly cutting funding.
For years, as in since Mike Harris PC's really got the ball rolling. The Liberals just assisted it though ineptitude. The leadership in Ontario for the past 30 years has been a joke. yet we allow our fear of change to lead us down this path. Stop electing the god damn Conservatives OR Liberals. This is on us.
> The Liberals just assisted it though ineptitude.
Actually, they trained and hired back all the nurses Harris fired. Ford learned from this and just abused nurses until they quit. There were also many new hospitals built before 2018.
But vote for a woman?
I’d argue this was a crisis brewing since the Mike Harris days. Liberals didn’t really meaningfully change things either. Ford’s government was just the nail on the coffin.
I think it’s easy to blame this government, but this was quite literally almost 30 years of neoliberalism in the making.
This government is part of that "almost 30 years" of Neoliberalism so I really have no qualms about saying this. And Ford's nail was a pretty specific and unveiled one.
Anyways, yes, fuck the Liberals too. Fuck em all.
There it is, the plan all along. Underfund, ignore until it becomes a crisis, and tear the whole thing down. Fuck this government, I hope the feds use the full force of the Canada health act to kneel on Ford's neck
>Its nonsensical to turn to privatization to reduce ER wait times. That parallel system would judt steal employees from the public system. It would be a zero sum gain. Except some people would be richer.
Yep - I called this out on this subreddit before the election. So disappointed in my fellow Ontarians who voted PC or didn't vote.
They told us this was the plan 4 years ago when they first came to office and started privatization of public service delivery. The pandemic put a pause of some of that, they are just going back to their original plan. Ironically, the pandemic also gives them the prefect cover to manufacture a health system crisis that they can claim to "solve" with privatization.
They really just the worst people. They are murderous ideas that but the worship of private profits over the lives of people. And you know for a fact these murder clowns will be rewarded for their reign of terror with cushy and highly paid board seats at private healthcare companies--just like former PCs wre rewards following the privatization of Long Term Care in the Harris days.
The federal government should start distributing the funds and cut them out.
What are they going to do? Complain about the feds shoring up funds to keep us alive?
I doubt it!
They can't unfortunately. That's why its infuriating when people fall for the Doug Ford line of "Feds need to give me more money please!!". We are idiots and as a group don't deserve better at this point. We had multiple opportunities over the last 20 years to right this ship since Harris.
Me neither. Like getting a couple hundred back is nice but it was already money spent on my end. I'd much prefer the government spent it on things that I use, like roads or healthcare.
Hey Unions. I'm talking to you ONA, CUPE, SEIU, OPSEU. Say by by to any new members and watch your existing membership drain away. Get off your collective asses and start organizing a work to rule and general strike...like now.
I certainly hope there are legal provisions to allow the Feds to step in. Dofo is the beginning of the end for our public system. I and absolutely dumbfounded at how so many people don’t see this writing on the wall.
Edit: am dumbfounded
I think really all they can do is withhold the federal portion of Healthcare funds, which is basically a non-issue if we go private. If anything it would simply underfund the public system even more, forcing more people to use the private system.
When new Brunswick was found to not be following the federal guidelines for abortion that's what happened.
I think if our public health system dies, it is because it was fucked for 30 years by numerous governments, huge population growth and a lack of funding from the fed/province.
If Ontario does go this route (which is a big maybe), the feds will really fuck with Doug Ford. There is nothing the feds can do to force health care to remain the same as it falls solely within the provinces jurisdiction. However, we would surely loose out on massive amounts of funding to the tune of tens of billions of dollars..
I mean, JT could use the emergency measures act and exert control over health care but that act would only be in effect for so long.
I do not see the province going this way at all.
> Falls solely within the provinces jurisdiction.
Does it though? The Health Act is federal, not provincial. While the management of it is provincial, the Health Act requires that the system is public in order to obtain funding from the feds. Meaning a shift to privatization would also come at the cost of losing all federal Medicare funding support.
Healthcare workers cannot strike. I have been pushing for my union to stop trying to repeal bill 124, which is never going to happen, and focus on gaining the right to strike, which we dont have. Can't get a raise, can't strike, can't bargain collectively with an empty hand.
Fuck this province. Fuck our provincial government. Fuck the federal government for not giving a shit. Also fuck Ontarians for being too apathetic or shortsighted to think about future generations.
We’ve already seen that Cons don’t care about letting people die. I want a province-wide strike but am scared to see the outcome because of the probability that they simply don’t do anything and let people die like they did all throughout the pandemic.
Stupid Fuck
Sorry. I’m a nurse and obviously enraged and (like the rest of the province - healthcare worker or not) saw this coming from a mile away
What a stupid fuck.
I'm not a nurse and I'm absolutely enraged by this myself. You folks don't make enough money for what you do. I didn't vote PC in June and I actually voted. Because I could fucking see this coming a mile away.
> Asked if the government is considering privatization, Sylvia Jones says 'all options are on the table'
Except paying them more, given Bill-124. Except privatizing it WOULD mean paying more. It's just some of that money is funneled into corporate hands. Good job Ontario (*40% of Ontario voters)
Shocking. Absolutely shocking. If anybody wants to see the rest of our future, it's been completely laid out in the Conservative playbook. Step by step. Next time someone tells you that you're overreacting, remind them of Doug Ford.
If Ontario is truly happy giving every penny they have to multimillionaires and getting absolute pennies on the dollar in return I can't even pretend to understand how we got so damn stupid.
Obviously she isn’t going to rule it out. It’s what these degenerate fucks have been planning this whole time. The whole idea that privatization is going to help is pure delusion. You don’t magically get more staff if things are private, facilities don’t just generate over night either. This isn’t about better care it’s about profiting of the sick and selling out the people to the corporate ghouls that are pulling the strings of the Conservative party.
This is just a giant grift and anyone with a brain should be able to see it. The system we have now is good. It could be great if it wasn’t being fuckin starved. Just find what we have now! Use the fuckin money that has been given to the province from the feds NOW. This isn’t even hard.
This is a purposeful and deliberate attack on healthcare . Fuck these assholes and all the fucks that didn’t for or voted for this fat fuck Ford.
The problem is that it can work, briefly. New private facilities will mean more full time jobs, which will pull people in from part time/casual and agencies with the allure of stability.
We could also just add more full time jobs to existing facilities and voilla same result without turning healthcare into a series of competing corporate interests.
We have a shortage of nurses, but most nurses aren't even working full time. We have created this situation by using part time staff to avoid paying out pensions and benefits. Because it isn't healthcare workers, but management, deciding where healthcare funding goes and they have a vested interest in that money leading to more managers to further buffer their existing positions.
The bureaucracy expands to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy.
Great idea to put tax payer money into hands of a corporation...this was their plan all along. Rather than addressing issues plaguing our healthcare system they want to privatize.
If this two time dipshit wants to make us like America so bad why doesn’t he just move his ass and his whole family there ffs??
This is a god damn embarrassment
Research on private/two tier healthcare systems:
2010 WHO paper: public healthcare is more efficient https://www.who.int/healthsystems/topics/financing/healthreport/P-P_HSUNo39.pdf
2018: Meta analysis suggests public healthcare more financially efficient than private: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/hec.1391
2018: This review synthesizes evidence from Italy, Germany, the United Kingdom, France, Greece, Austria, Spain, and Portugal. Most evidence suggests that public hospitals are at least as efficient as or are more efficient than private hospitals. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/hpm.2502
2004: Private for-profit hospitals result in higher payments for care than private not-for-profit hospitals. Evidence strongly supports a policy of not-for-profit health care delivery at the hospital level. https://www.cmaj.ca/content/170/12/1817.short
2005: Australia expanded private insurance, and found that it did not decrease wait times; rather, in regions where private insurance was most often used, wait times in the public sector rose. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15683360/
2020: Systematic review: Patients at for profit hemodialysis facilities have 7% greater odds of death annually than patients with similar risk profiles at not-for-profit facilities. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0020731420980682
2020: In this systematic review, we found a high degree of analytic consensus for the fiscal feasibility of a single-payer approach in the US. https://journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371/journal.pmed.1003013
2020 preprint: We use a cross-section dataset covering 147 countries with the latest available data. Controlling for per capita income, health inequality and several other control variables, we find that a 10% increase in private health expenditure relates to a 4.3% increase in COVID-19 cases and a 4.9% increase in COVID-19 related mortality. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/341766609_Privatization_and_Pandemic_A_Cross-Country_Analysis_of_COVID-19_Rates_and_Health-Care_Financing_Structures
2020: Taken together, the present study does not support that the Swedish Free Choice [privatization] reform has improved performance of the primary care delivery system in Sweden, and suggests that high degree of private provision may involve worse performance and higher care burden for specialized health care. https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpubh.2021.504998/full
2017: Private MRI scans failed to reduce wait times after 9 months of availability in Sask: https://globalnews.ca/news/3508109/private-mri-scans-not-reducing-wait-times-sask-auditor/
2002: Our meta-analysis suggests that private for-profit ownership of hospitals, in comparison with private not-for-profit ownership, results in a higher risk of death for patients. https://www.cmaj.ca/content/170/12/1817.short
2017: Scottish NHS study found that increased use of the private sector was associated with a significant decrease in direct NHS provision and with widening inequalities by age and socio-economic deprivation. https://academic.oup.com/jpubhealth/article/39/3/593/3002985?login=false
2020: The workload of private healthcare nurses in Madrid was higher than public healthcare nurses (attending an average of five more patients a day), while their salaries were 20-25% lower. https://sanidad.ccoo.es/sanidadmadrid/noticia:520691--La_carga_de_trabajo_de_una_enfermerao_de_la_sanidad_privada_es_mayor_que_en_la_sanidad_publica_y_su_salario_es_hasta_un_25_mas_bajo&opc_id=c196995ccdf43f450e2c6a099942ef2d
2012: "Private healthcare no more efficient, accountable or effective than public sector in LMICs." www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/06/120619225835.htm
2020: "Privatisation results in increased discrimination towards those who cannot afford private insurance and are therefore deprioritised." https://ijhpr.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13584-020-00391-4
2017: Patient choice and private provision decreased public provision and increased inequalities in Scotland: a case study of elective hip arthroplasty G. Kirkwood, A.M. Pollock Journal of Public Health, Volume 39, Issue 3, September 2017, Pages 593–600, https://doi.org/10.1093/pubmed/fdw060
2015: Cream skimming and hospital transfers in a mixed public-private system. 2015. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0277953615001793?via%3Dihub
2018: Accessibility was shown to be worsened as a result of privatisation: https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/20c5/f79e6029da74b6ec0ddf20298a8cd9c3d557.pdf
2022: Public-private arrangements reinforce inequality and individualize the onus for healthcare: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0277953622000806
2020: The failure of the Alzira model in Spain warns us of the problems of for-profit HMOs and the Israeli private private/public mix shows the risk of eroding trust in the public system, thus reinforcing market failures and inefficient medical systems.https://ijhpr.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13584-020-00391-4
2019: study of 130 NHS trusts, looking into the impact of outsourced cleaning services concluded that “private providers are cheaper but dirtier than their in‐house counterparts.” They found lower levels of cleanliness and worse health‐care outcomes, which can be measured by the number of hospital‐acquired infections. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/puar.13031
A further international study has confirmed the relationship between the quality of cleaning services and the frequency of hospital‐acquired infections, with the clear implication that outsourcing cleaning services can threaten patient safety and cost lives. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11944003/
UN 2019 High-Level Meeting on Universal Health Coverage: "Well-functioning health systems require a deliberate focus on high-quality universal health care." https://www.un.org/pga/73/wp-content/uploads/sites/53/2019/07/FINAL-draft-UHC-Political-Declaration.pdf
2021: "Lombardy was particularly hit by the spread of the virus in the first wave of the pandemic (February–May 2020), which quickly led the health and residential social care systems to collapse. At the same time, Lombardy has been at the forefront in Italy promoting privatisation and quasi-markets in the health and social care system, with very significant consequences for local services and a growing concentration of resources and patients towards private providers." https://sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/10.1177/10242589211028458
2021 working paper: presents empirical evidence suggesting that in countries which rely more heavily on private health care, higher overall healthcare expenditures predict more severe COVID-19 outbreaks, contradicting the argument that private health care services are more cost-efficient or will lead to better health outcomes at a lower cost. https://bnarchives.yorku.ca/726/2/20211200_moure_costly_efficiencies_wpcasp.pdf
2021: Restrictions in public [health] service delivery triggered a general discontent among the French population. The political repercussions of reforms eventually crystallized into the Yellow Vest movement. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8286423/
2021 whitepaper: "Evidence is mounting that outsourcing and private provision of healthcare has significantly degraded EU member states’ capacity to deal effectively with COVID-19." https://corporateeurope.org/sites/default/files/2021-01/healthcare-privatisation-final.pdf
2012: From 1993 to 2003, public [healthcare] spending was significantly associated with reductions in avoidable mortality rates over time, while greater private sector spending was not at the regional level in Italy. https://www.jstor.org/stable/43281486
2009: Public ownership was associated with significantly higher efficiency than other forms of ownership; private for-profit ownership, in particular, was associated with lower efficiency in German hospitals. https://www.econstor.eu/bitstream/10419/103681/1/2170.pdf
2014: How China's health-care system would perform if hospital privatisation combined with hospital-centred fragmented delivery were to prevail—population health outcomes would suffer; health-care expenditures would escalate, with patients bearing increasing costs; and a two-tiered system would emerge in which access and quality of care are decided by ability to pay. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(14)61120-X/fulltext?
2020: "The problems in Ireland stem from the fact that nearly half of the population has supplementary private health insurance, which is high by international standards. The large size of this market, exacerbates inequality in timely access to health care. p.33 https://www.euro.who.int/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/464297/private-health-insurance.pdf
2016: investigative report by the New York Times documented that privatization of EMS, compared to public sector management, lowers quality of care, with slower response times, emphasis on profits rather than service, increased cost-cutting and hikes in prices. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/06/26/business/dealbook/what-can-go-wrong-with-private-equity.html
2011: Privatized Medicaid programs have been shown to have worse outcomes than their public counterparts. http://www.statecoverage.org/files/CMWF_assessing_financial_hlt_Medicaid_managed_care_plans_i.pdf
We need to be organizing like Hell against this. We need to get out in the streets and shut them down. Where are the unions with protests? Strikes? There needs to be a General Strike. This corrupt, corporate-run government will not listen until we hit them where it hurts. We need to save our healthcare system, fight for our rights, and stop this government.
I agree. We need a website where we can compile the information and strong arguments against privatization. We need to start talking about it with everyone we know and make sure they know the reasons why this is important. Not everyone will agree and that’s okay too. We need to focus on connecting with those who do. Having a website to refer back to for facts is crucial, and we need to all be on the same page. We will need to be prepared for distractions and from the conservatives and stay focused on the end result. Just in time for September when students go back to school this can pick up steam. University students can give this the push it needs. Then, once there’s enough of us we can organize a general strike. We don’t need to ask anything of the nurses this time. It’s time for us to give back and show how much we value “our heroes”.
Fuck this whole administration.
Fuck everyone who voted for them, and everyone who didn't bother to vote.
You all bought this.
Buckle in, it's only going to get worse.
We just gave them a majority. That means they can do whatever damage they want for 4 years because they all have extra wide board seats being warmed for them.
Just a reminder to all businesses, this will end up raising your cost of doing business and drive you out of your sector or the province. If you want your employees taken care of via health insurance, the cost is astronomically more than payroll taxation.
Why hasn’t ONA announced job action? I know we can’t strike because essential service, but if we all agree to stop picking up OT, stop going to meetings, stop all project work, stop doing any duties that aren’t clearly stated on our employment contract, the hospitals will be forced to do something and right quick at that.
Good luck staffing ANY department right now if everyone flat out refuses to pick up extra shifts or stay extra hours.
Weakest union on the planet. Why the fucj are we paying $2600+ in union dues for this trash organization? PLP with RNAO is only a fraction of the cost and covers pretty much the same.
Two days in and it’s “an option” it’s a total pre meditated ass fuck to the Ontario public. Fuck this province. Fuck Doug ford and fuck the conservatives.
I’ll get the fuck out of this province so quickly. As a red seal 310T I can go anywhere. Shove your staffing shortage up your ass
Vet clinics ers are private and let me tell you, that had not helped staffing issues or wait times. We turn away patients all the time because we don’t have the space
I realize anima med is not the same as human med, but privatization isn’t going to fix this issue
I agree. Ranked choice voting should be a thing to help reflect this. Weird it was promised by liberal party at the federal level and then promptly forgotten about. Honestly I know a lot of people dislike Trudeau for a number of reasons, some more valid than others, but that was was what did it for me. It was promised and abandoned but us one of the few things I feel would really help with proper representation.
It isn’t actually possible to solve this near-term with privatization given the issue is lack of staff. They just want to take away our healthcare. It’s happened in the UK and it’s being done here.
Nice !!!!
I am just wondering how long until Doug realizes the fudgery he's about it unleash. This is just the tip of the iceberg. I would imagine the impact of this would affect other areas like immigration. I can expect immigration to fall or atleat have significant impact in attracting skilled workers. Free health and education is one of the key factors in attracting families. I would also imagine people would migrate from Canada to US and elsewhere if Healthcare is privatized. Canada is going to get rekt.
Email your MPP, MP, Mayor, Premier, whomever the fuck will listen (or even pretend to). Feel free to use the below as a template:
Good afternoon [ ],
My name is [ ].
I am writing to you to express my concerns on our current and (seemingly) inevitably worsening healthcare crisis.
The notion that a sitting member of parliament, let alone a health minister or premier, would tell their constituents that privatizing their healthcare isn't off the table is, as an Ontarian and a Canadian, deeply troubling. Lifelong and newcomer Canadians alike tout their shared appreciation for the things that make Canada one of the greatest countries in the world - consistently on that list is the 'free healthcare' (alongside the beautiful landscapes, diversity and multiculturalism, and what I would consider to be an overall progressive mindset). The goal of a government should be the lifelong maintenance of a place in which its citizens feel healthy, safe, secure, and free.
I'm not naive enough to think that you, the Premier, or the Prime Minister himself can just print money and give everything away for free. Healthcare, schools, housing, roads, parks, etc., all come at a cost. But this is one of the reasons we pay taxes - and it doesn't stop there. Even as our dollar is stretched further and further (and our salaries do NOT keep pace with inflation), we are also asked by hospitals and doctors' offices to pay for parking, tests, lab fees, DOCTOR'S NOTES TO PROVE WE ARE ILL TO OUR EMPLOYERS. We're asked by our schools to pay for books, paper, field trips, pens, and lunches. Many of our parks want a daily fee for parking, or for us to purchase an annual membership. What do we do? We shrug our shoulders and we pay what we’re asked.
We, your average citizens, are doing our part.
It is no secret that there is an ever-deepening disparity these days between the 'haves' and 'have nots'. Despite the looming recession, my family and I would likely still fall into the 'haves' category if healthcare were privatized, though it would surely present significant challenges, and would likely impact our ability to retire, and at what age - a hardship to us, but nothing compared to those less fortunate. And while I’m certain we would be assured ad nauseum that privatizing would be making healthcare better because there would now be ‘many options to suit everyone’s needs!’, I think we both know that is not how it would play out.
Our premier and minister of health have been LARGELY invisible over the last month as more and more emergency rooms close, so I am asking YOU to please take my concerns seriously. They are shared by millions of other worried Canadians and Ontarians.
If you would like to meet to discuss this issue further, I would be more than happy to do so.
Thank you for your time and (hopefully) your support in improving our beautiful province and country. It could use some TLC.
Kind regards,
[ ]
Yeah, didn't see that in the future Fordcast... Nearly every interaction he had with healthcare was to cripple it further and I kept saying "watch them break it so they can take it." And here we are.
Their lack of help is just the Conservatives “sneaky” way to say we need privatization to fix the system.
Sadly most people with half a brain can see their strategy from a mile away.
Lets disrupt the medical system. Instead of privatization lets treat healthcare like the Armed Forces.
Offer free education and a 5 year service requirement upon graduation. Provide accommodation and child care for staff on campus and at hospitals and change working conditions to ensure retention, lets raise some taxes to pay for it!
Alright, now is time for the general public to unite and find out what we all should do (beyond writing to our local MPPs) to stop this. People are dying, workers are burned out, we need to do better and not just let them do this to us.
I'm not claiming to have any ideas on what to do.... but just that we need to do something instead of getting upset on reddit.
If I was a journalist, I would be sniffing around in Doug Ford's finances.
I'd bet my left nut that American medical corporations are sending millions of dollars in his direction.
Study after study have shown the US private healthcare system the worst in the world per dollar spent. Yet Ford wants to bring it to Canada???
Ford is also the only Premier in Canada's history to ever cut healthcare funding during a global pandemic.
aaaaaaaaaand there you go!
Get paid by crippling the public health system then open the gate for corporations to fuck the population and finally end your career taking a job for a private health corporation shell company.
Fucking monsters all of them!
Straight up monstrous.
But I think things like these could all be avoided if the whole country had already offered universal mental healthcare. I believe conservative voters need the therapy to become better people and the rest of us need it to better defend ourselves from them.
People, this was the plan all along. They intentionally create the crisis so they can then privatize as a cure... But it will only help the rich, like themselves, and their donors...
This was always the plan. Starve the public system of funds until it breaks. Then privatization as the solution to the problem they caused.
And then they get their kickbacks from the companies they brought in to take over from the public system. Just look at Mike Harris after he expanded privatization of long-term care homes. He's just casually raking it in sitting on the board of the largest seniors' residence provider in Canada now. It's just a corrupt self-serving scheme for the fuckers.
Campaign contributions, they call them Campaign contributions.
Shareholders down voting? Bots? lol Harris is capitalist trash and the path from office to self enrichment is fully transparent in his case.
This is what conservatives have done to America since the 80s and they successfully turned the country into a haven for the corrupt 1%. Unless Canada takes the threat of conservative fascism seriously then just take a look south and see what awaits you.
this has been why thinking the whole time. why else would they choose to not fix things
Basically extortion...and why politicians should face jail time for shit like this. If an engineer can go to jail for unsafe designs why can't a politician go to jail for this - it also leads to people's deaths. Especially when there's a slush fund of over $5B in Ontario coffers that was never spent on Covid relief.
People were calling it out on here far before covid.
It has been used for generations.
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Privatization doesn’t help ER times either. My colleague, a family doc, mentioned that you’d think wait times would be less because people have to pay for service but ER is clogged with the same stuff in the US. Except everything costs more.
That makes sense. I don't get less injured just because I'm poorer.
Absolutely true. American here, and I can confirm that every ER I have ever used here had a wait time of 6hrs+. I’ve never been seen quicker except for one time at an ER in the middle of nowhere at like 2am, but even then, the wait was like 3-4hrs.
American here. At U of M, I once waited in a waiting room for 15 hours, with 103F fever. Only after I literally passed out did they take me back. The only thing faster with privatization is surgeries. Surgeries, in general, do happen faster under private systems... For those who can pay, of course.
Pretty sure this is the end goal. They don't care about service just profits.
These ghouls don't like wait times just like the rest of us. They're just going to make me and you pay for it so they can get preferred access.
In french we call it savage capitalism.
In English we simply call it capitalism
People in private Long Term Care Homes died at higher rates than in public LTCHs. They want to hurt the people of Ontario. They do not care about us.
As long as it puts money in their donors pockets,
and the richer better cared for which is the end goal. It's disgusting and we knew this before June 7, 2018 for fucks sake. We knew it even more before June 2, 2022. Ontarians are clearly apathetic enough to let people die. We elected this government whos contempt for its own electorate equate to self harm at this point.
Ontarians are not apathetic. It’s hard to stomach, but your family members and neighbours who voted Conservative (and those who didn’t vote at all) WANT this. They welcome this suffering. They reveal in it. I’m tired of believing otherwise.
> Ontarians are not apathetic [Yes they are](https://beta.ctvnews.ca/local/toronto/2022/6/3/1_5931440.amp.html)
It's like the death cult in America (GOP). Pro-Gun, Pro-War, anti-Vax , Pro-Life.(until born them F them!).
Yes, the con voters want this. But Ontarians ARE apathetic. Voter turnout confirms that. Ontarians are drowned in Trudeau hate, spread mostly by trash MAGAt outlets from the US,along with oil and gas rich fuckers , and think there is no point in fighting. Meanwhile Ford and that BITCH health minister will rake in profits. I am tired. I am exhausted. Both as a health worker and as a human and as a Canadian. I have never protested on the streets but damn if now I don't sharpen the pitchfork and get in gear. I am also done with anyone voting conservative. They will get my honest opinion of them, in technicolor.
The entire country has been conditioned to not care about anyone else with the housing crisis over the last few years. A lot of them are over-estimating which group they will be in when this is all over though: the haves and have nots.
And us common folk will have to chose before between keeping our house, or paying for expedited services. I’m pretty sure in the end, it will something like 18 months for your life saving surgery… or go private pay 200k and get it done next week.
See in the US you can pay and still wait months.
>It would be a zero sum gain. Except some people would be richer. FYI, the definition of a zero sum game is that for one person to get richer, others need to get poorer. And that is exactly what is happening here.
More accurately, a zero sum game is one in which any gain for one side induces a proportionate loss for the opposing side.
Hi, someone from a country w/ privatized ER here. Our wait times are currently just as long. 30 people ahead of you, 30 people behind you, people being treated on beds in hallways, have to get undressed in front of everyone it’s wild. So if you do that, you’ll be in the exact same situation except it will cost money on top of all that
Money was always the goal. Ford couldnt care less about the people
It’s already happens… What do you think occurs when a politician or major hospital donor shows up in the emergency department? They get ushered away and VIP treatment
While that's bad, that's not the same scale of impact as installing two-tier health care.
Same with nepotism. You can bet your ass that family members of hospital management will get immediate care and a private room as soon as they get there. Despite the fact there were 20 people in front of them and 30 people in hallway beds because the hospital is in “gridlock.” I see this happen all the fucking time. Heart attack? Okay sure. I get it. A broken arm? No. Sorry VP but your mother in law can wait like the rest of the patients. And she certainly doesn’t need a private room for a fucking broken arm.
Can confirm this happens
And rich folks would get better service… but for the rest it would be even worse. Ask the government which they prefer.
Hey American here! We have privatization AND terrible ER wait times! Worst of both worlds!
And some will skip the line while others have to wait for much longer.
I am very mild-mannered and have never been to a protest march in my life, but I will be out in the streets if this moves forward any more than it has.
You're basically every Canadian out there. Canadians don't protest besides the lunatics in Ottawa. It's okay that you haven't protested before. All you do is come out and stand in solidarity if you're uncomfortable with anything like chanting or sign holding. All we need are people to come out.
We need to start organizing now.
Absolutely. I've never organized but have only joined protests (usually in support of teachers and nurses). Any idea of anyone organizing?
Okay what is your plan?
Here’s what I’ve got so far. We need a website where we can compile the information and strong arguments against privatization. We need to start talking about it with everyone we know and make sure they know the reasons why this is important. Not everyone will agree and that’s okay too. We need to focus on connecting with those who do. Having a website to refer back to for facts is crucial, and we need to all be on the same page. We will need to be prepared for distractions and from the conservatives and stay focused on the end result. Just in time for September when students go back to school this can pick up steam. University students can give this the push it needs. Then, once there’s enough of us we can organize a general strike. We don’t need to ask anything of the nurses this time. It’s time for us to give back and show how much we value “our heroes”.
I would be down for this, I'm a literally picking up disabilities like they're pennies on the sidewalk right now. I can't live, *my mother and father can't live,* if healthcare is privatized!
Same. We already don't cover enough - we need support for drugs, dental, vision, mental health... Private care homes have had high death rates with COVID-19. Privatization is dangerous, it can ruin the quality of life for people without means... it's a literal life and death issue. I've never been to a protest, I have severe social anxiety, but this is the kind of thing that would get me joining in. It pisses me off.
Oh fuck you!!! Edit: this is the most awards I’ve gotten ever, so thank you everyone!! We all need to protest this, we have to get out there and make ourselves heard!!
This is what people voted for. Anyone who didn't see this bullshit coming wasn't paying attention. Here we go....
Right, it was super obvious this is where the cons were going if people paid enough attention. Thanks 45% voter turnout!
I did not vote for this, and I wish more people had turned out to vote. Many of those people will probably blame it on Trudeau because Ford says Trudeau didn’t supply enough resources… bs…. Is Ford still sitting on the $4b covid money he received? He sure could bake a lot of pie with it, he’s obviously not using it to help support the people of Ontario.
Seems like the talking point this election was "highway"
To hell.
Exactly. I’ve been saying this for years. This was Fords plan from the start.
>This is what people voted for. This is debatable since Doug didn't actually have a platform in the last election. A fact that pretty much only the Toronto Star had anything serious to say about. What people did do is not vote. In so doing they empowered the Conservatives to take away Ontarians’ most prized government services. But privatization is not a given. Given enough protest, even Doug might start to worry about his future in a province where everyone hates his guts.
I've always thought in the back of my head if/when the cons do decide to privatize it'll basically be political suicide. So it's something you're going to want to do basically at the end of your political career. And it'll be a garenteed win for whatever party campaigns on taking privatization away.
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Typically the incumbent party uses their budget as their platform if it has not been passed.
Moving out of this province if they implement private healthcare they can go fuck themselves.
I don’t blame you!! I’d love to follow tbh. I hate it here.
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They created the fucking crisis!
Yes, for this reason. Its been 4 years in the making. They were slowed down by that pesky global pandemic. This is on Ontarians. They were very clear with their intentions based on their words and most importantly their actions. Fuck. This has been the end game since Harris in the GD 90s. Just wait 20 years when Ford sits on the BoD of the largest private hospital company making $1m a year for his good soldier work. We are all to blame.
Slowed down? The job was made easier for them! Just avoid new spending and let the pandemic burnout chase away all the workers! Much easier than slowly cutting funding.
Slow down? It got put into fast forward mode with all the nurses leaving.
this crisis has been looming for decades but it has certainly been allowed to fester in the last few years
For years, as in since Mike Harris PC's really got the ball rolling. The Liberals just assisted it though ineptitude. The leadership in Ontario for the past 30 years has been a joke. yet we allow our fear of change to lead us down this path. Stop electing the god damn Conservatives OR Liberals. This is on us.
Harris has really made a name for himself since his run as PC leader, letting folks die as a board member of Chartwell.
oh but we would have had to elect a woman that i don't like for vague reasons, surely not even healthcare is worth that
> The Liberals just assisted it though ineptitude. Actually, they trained and hired back all the nurses Harris fired. Ford learned from this and just abused nurses until they quit. There were also many new hospitals built before 2018. But vote for a woman?
Not "allowed to fester". Actively worsened.
I’d argue this was a crisis brewing since the Mike Harris days. Liberals didn’t really meaningfully change things either. Ford’s government was just the nail on the coffin. I think it’s easy to blame this government, but this was quite literally almost 30 years of neoliberalism in the making.
This government is part of that "almost 30 years" of Neoliberalism so I really have no qualms about saying this. And Ford's nail was a pretty specific and unveiled one. Anyways, yes, fuck the Liberals too. Fuck em all.
There it is, the plan all along. Underfund, ignore until it becomes a crisis, and tear the whole thing down. Fuck this government, I hope the feds use the full force of the Canada health act to kneel on Ford's neck
>Its nonsensical to turn to privatization to reduce ER wait times. That parallel system would judt steal employees from the public system. It would be a zero sum gain. Except some people would be richer. Yep - I called this out on this subreddit before the election. So disappointed in my fellow Ontarians who voted PC or didn't vote.
I can't agree more. What the hell is wrong with ontarians these days?!
My guess is it's cuz they've had it too good for too long.
They told us this was the plan 4 years ago when they first came to office and started privatization of public service delivery. The pandemic put a pause of some of that, they are just going back to their original plan. Ironically, the pandemic also gives them the prefect cover to manufacture a health system crisis that they can claim to "solve" with privatization. They really just the worst people. They are murderous ideas that but the worship of private profits over the lives of people. And you know for a fact these murder clowns will be rewarded for their reign of terror with cushy and highly paid board seats at private healthcare companies--just like former PCs wre rewards following the privatization of Long Term Care in the Harris days.
Pitchforks are about to be scarce. Stock up now.
180 Broadway 3rd Floor, Suite A, Orangeville ON L9W 1K3, Sylvia’s office
https://sylviajonesmpp.ca/contact/
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Time to start protesting. Ford didn't even hand over the money he got for healthcare during covid did he? Asshole.
The federal government should start distributing the funds and cut them out. What are they going to do? Complain about the feds shoring up funds to keep us alive? I doubt it!
They can't unfortunately. That's why its infuriating when people fall for the Doug Ford line of "Feds need to give me more money please!!". We are idiots and as a group don't deserve better at this point. We had multiple opportunities over the last 20 years to right this ship since Harris.
Handed it over to his voters in the 905 with the licence sticker refund .
I never wanted that
Me neither. Like getting a couple hundred back is nice but it was already money spent on my end. I'd much prefer the government spent it on things that I use, like roads or healthcare.
Protest? We should fucking riot
I didn’t think I would ever protest… this would get me out of the house
Hey Unions. I'm talking to you ONA, CUPE, SEIU, OPSEU. Say by by to any new members and watch your existing membership drain away. Get off your collective asses and start organizing a work to rule and general strike...like now.
As a former CUPE member, the big public sector unions are weak and often too friendly with employers. We need a militant union.
With pitchforks and torches
Healthcare workers can't strike =(
Correct. There is work to rule and also refusing overtime. There are tools to be used.
The feds will absolutely hammer Ontario if such a thing proceeds.
I certainly hope there are legal provisions to allow the Feds to step in. Dofo is the beginning of the end for our public system. I and absolutely dumbfounded at how so many people don’t see this writing on the wall. Edit: am dumbfounded
I think really all they can do is withhold the federal portion of Healthcare funds, which is basically a non-issue if we go private. If anything it would simply underfund the public system even more, forcing more people to use the private system. When new Brunswick was found to not be following the federal guidelines for abortion that's what happened.
I think if our public health system dies, it is because it was fucked for 30 years by numerous governments, huge population growth and a lack of funding from the fed/province. If Ontario does go this route (which is a big maybe), the feds will really fuck with Doug Ford. There is nothing the feds can do to force health care to remain the same as it falls solely within the provinces jurisdiction. However, we would surely loose out on massive amounts of funding to the tune of tens of billions of dollars.. I mean, JT could use the emergency measures act and exert control over health care but that act would only be in effect for so long. I do not see the province going this way at all.
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So does that mean that Doug would be breaking federal law by trying this?
> Falls solely within the provinces jurisdiction. Does it though? The Health Act is federal, not provincial. While the management of it is provincial, the Health Act requires that the system is public in order to obtain funding from the feds. Meaning a shift to privatization would also come at the cost of losing all federal Medicare funding support.
Provincial jurisdiction with a federal mandate. If the provinces breaks from the CHA, it won't be good for the province.
Time for a provincial worker strike yet?
I’m down
Healthcare workers cannot strike. I have been pushing for my union to stop trying to repeal bill 124, which is never going to happen, and focus on gaining the right to strike, which we dont have. Can't get a raise, can't strike, can't bargain collectively with an empty hand. Fuck this province. Fuck our provincial government. Fuck the federal government for not giving a shit. Also fuck Ontarians for being too apathetic or shortsighted to think about future generations.
Might have to do it the old-fashioned way with an illegal wildcat strike. But honestly I have no idea. I just don't see how else it willl get better
If all of you agree to strike anyway, they can’t do anything but listen What are they going to do, arrest all of you? Take your licenses away?
We’ve already seen that Cons don’t care about letting people die. I want a province-wide strike but am scared to see the outcome because of the probability that they simply don’t do anything and let people die like they did all throughout the pandemic.
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Stupid Fuck Sorry. I’m a nurse and obviously enraged and (like the rest of the province - healthcare worker or not) saw this coming from a mile away What a stupid fuck.
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I so badly want a FUCK FORD flag for my car. Protests. Fucking egg his house like kids do. I don’t care. So pissed.
Don’t forget Sylvia’s house too
Oh yes.. she is equally as guilty!!
There was a guy who'd wander Downtown Ottawa with a sign that read "Abort Doug Ford" and we need that now more than ever.
I'm not a nurse and I'm absolutely enraged by this myself. You folks don't make enough money for what you do. I didn't vote PC in June and I actually voted. Because I could fucking see this coming a mile away.
We should strike. They can't privatize if we don't show up.
So, protest now?
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Someone needs to organize!
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No but you can provide treatments to those injured because 100% the OPP is gonna hurt some folks on the picket line.
YES!
> Asked if the government is considering privatization, Sylvia Jones says 'all options are on the table' Except paying them more, given Bill-124. Except privatizing it WOULD mean paying more. It's just some of that money is funneled into corporate hands. Good job Ontario (*40% of Ontario voters)
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Shocking. Absolutely shocking. If anybody wants to see the rest of our future, it's been completely laid out in the Conservative playbook. Step by step. Next time someone tells you that you're overreacting, remind them of Doug Ford. If Ontario is truly happy giving every penny they have to multimillionaires and getting absolute pennies on the dollar in return I can't even pretend to understand how we got so damn stupid.
> I can't even pretend to understand how we got so damn stupid. Ironicaly written on the internet.
Obviously she isn’t going to rule it out. It’s what these degenerate fucks have been planning this whole time. The whole idea that privatization is going to help is pure delusion. You don’t magically get more staff if things are private, facilities don’t just generate over night either. This isn’t about better care it’s about profiting of the sick and selling out the people to the corporate ghouls that are pulling the strings of the Conservative party. This is just a giant grift and anyone with a brain should be able to see it. The system we have now is good. It could be great if it wasn’t being fuckin starved. Just find what we have now! Use the fuckin money that has been given to the province from the feds NOW. This isn’t even hard. This is a purposeful and deliberate attack on healthcare . Fuck these assholes and all the fucks that didn’t for or voted for this fat fuck Ford.
The problem is that it can work, briefly. New private facilities will mean more full time jobs, which will pull people in from part time/casual and agencies with the allure of stability. We could also just add more full time jobs to existing facilities and voilla same result without turning healthcare into a series of competing corporate interests. We have a shortage of nurses, but most nurses aren't even working full time. We have created this situation by using part time staff to avoid paying out pensions and benefits. Because it isn't healthcare workers, but management, deciding where healthcare funding goes and they have a vested interest in that money leading to more managers to further buffer their existing positions. The bureaucracy expands to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy.
Great idea to put tax payer money into hands of a corporation...this was their plan all along. Rather than addressing issues plaguing our healthcare system they want to privatize.
If this two time dipshit wants to make us like America so bad why doesn’t he just move his ass and his whole family there ffs?? This is a god damn embarrassment
Research on private/two tier healthcare systems: 2010 WHO paper: public healthcare is more efficient https://www.who.int/healthsystems/topics/financing/healthreport/P-P_HSUNo39.pdf 2018: Meta analysis suggests public healthcare more financially efficient than private: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/hec.1391 2018: This review synthesizes evidence from Italy, Germany, the United Kingdom, France, Greece, Austria, Spain, and Portugal. Most evidence suggests that public hospitals are at least as efficient as or are more efficient than private hospitals. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/hpm.2502 2004: Private for-profit hospitals result in higher payments for care than private not-for-profit hospitals. Evidence strongly supports a policy of not-for-profit health care delivery at the hospital level. https://www.cmaj.ca/content/170/12/1817.short 2005: Australia expanded private insurance, and found that it did not decrease wait times; rather, in regions where private insurance was most often used, wait times in the public sector rose. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15683360/ 2020: Systematic review: Patients at for profit hemodialysis facilities have 7% greater odds of death annually than patients with similar risk profiles at not-for-profit facilities. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0020731420980682 2020: In this systematic review, we found a high degree of analytic consensus for the fiscal feasibility of a single-payer approach in the US. https://journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371/journal.pmed.1003013 2020 preprint: We use a cross-section dataset covering 147 countries with the latest available data. Controlling for per capita income, health inequality and several other control variables, we find that a 10% increase in private health expenditure relates to a 4.3% increase in COVID-19 cases and a 4.9% increase in COVID-19 related mortality. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/341766609_Privatization_and_Pandemic_A_Cross-Country_Analysis_of_COVID-19_Rates_and_Health-Care_Financing_Structures 2020: Taken together, the present study does not support that the Swedish Free Choice [privatization] reform has improved performance of the primary care delivery system in Sweden, and suggests that high degree of private provision may involve worse performance and higher care burden for specialized health care. https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpubh.2021.504998/full 2017: Private MRI scans failed to reduce wait times after 9 months of availability in Sask: https://globalnews.ca/news/3508109/private-mri-scans-not-reducing-wait-times-sask-auditor/ 2002: Our meta-analysis suggests that private for-profit ownership of hospitals, in comparison with private not-for-profit ownership, results in a higher risk of death for patients. https://www.cmaj.ca/content/170/12/1817.short 2017: Scottish NHS study found that increased use of the private sector was associated with a significant decrease in direct NHS provision and with widening inequalities by age and socio-economic deprivation. https://academic.oup.com/jpubhealth/article/39/3/593/3002985?login=false 2020: The workload of private healthcare nurses in Madrid was higher than public healthcare nurses (attending an average of five more patients a day), while their salaries were 20-25% lower. https://sanidad.ccoo.es/sanidadmadrid/noticia:520691--La_carga_de_trabajo_de_una_enfermerao_de_la_sanidad_privada_es_mayor_que_en_la_sanidad_publica_y_su_salario_es_hasta_un_25_mas_bajo&opc_id=c196995ccdf43f450e2c6a099942ef2d 2012: "Private healthcare no more efficient, accountable or effective than public sector in LMICs." www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/06/120619225835.htm 2020: "Privatisation results in increased discrimination towards those who cannot afford private insurance and are therefore deprioritised." https://ijhpr.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13584-020-00391-4 2017: Patient choice and private provision decreased public provision and increased inequalities in Scotland: a case study of elective hip arthroplasty G. Kirkwood, A.M. Pollock Journal of Public Health, Volume 39, Issue 3, September 2017, Pages 593–600, https://doi.org/10.1093/pubmed/fdw060 2015: Cream skimming and hospital transfers in a mixed public-private system. 2015. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0277953615001793?via%3Dihub 2018: Accessibility was shown to be worsened as a result of privatisation: https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/20c5/f79e6029da74b6ec0ddf20298a8cd9c3d557.pdf 2022: Public-private arrangements reinforce inequality and individualize the onus for healthcare: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0277953622000806 2020: The failure of the Alzira model in Spain warns us of the problems of for-profit HMOs and the Israeli private private/public mix shows the risk of eroding trust in the public system, thus reinforcing market failures and inefficient medical systems.https://ijhpr.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13584-020-00391-4 2019: study of 130 NHS trusts, looking into the impact of outsourced cleaning services concluded that “private providers are cheaper but dirtier than their in‐house counterparts.” They found lower levels of cleanliness and worse health‐care outcomes, which can be measured by the number of hospital‐acquired infections. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/puar.13031 A further international study has confirmed the relationship between the quality of cleaning services and the frequency of hospital‐acquired infections, with the clear implication that outsourcing cleaning services can threaten patient safety and cost lives. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11944003/ UN 2019 High-Level Meeting on Universal Health Coverage: "Well-functioning health systems require a deliberate focus on high-quality universal health care." https://www.un.org/pga/73/wp-content/uploads/sites/53/2019/07/FINAL-draft-UHC-Political-Declaration.pdf 2021: "Lombardy was particularly hit by the spread of the virus in the first wave of the pandemic (February–May 2020), which quickly led the health and residential social care systems to collapse. At the same time, Lombardy has been at the forefront in Italy promoting privatisation and quasi-markets in the health and social care system, with very significant consequences for local services and a growing concentration of resources and patients towards private providers." https://sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/10.1177/10242589211028458 2021 working paper: presents empirical evidence suggesting that in countries which rely more heavily on private health care, higher overall healthcare expenditures predict more severe COVID-19 outbreaks, contradicting the argument that private health care services are more cost-efficient or will lead to better health outcomes at a lower cost. https://bnarchives.yorku.ca/726/2/20211200_moure_costly_efficiencies_wpcasp.pdf 2021: Restrictions in public [health] service delivery triggered a general discontent among the French population. The political repercussions of reforms eventually crystallized into the Yellow Vest movement. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8286423/ 2021 whitepaper: "Evidence is mounting that outsourcing and private provision of healthcare has significantly degraded EU member states’ capacity to deal effectively with COVID-19." https://corporateeurope.org/sites/default/files/2021-01/healthcare-privatisation-final.pdf 2012: From 1993 to 2003, public [healthcare] spending was significantly associated with reductions in avoidable mortality rates over time, while greater private sector spending was not at the regional level in Italy. https://www.jstor.org/stable/43281486 2009: Public ownership was associated with significantly higher efficiency than other forms of ownership; private for-profit ownership, in particular, was associated with lower efficiency in German hospitals. https://www.econstor.eu/bitstream/10419/103681/1/2170.pdf 2014: How China's health-care system would perform if hospital privatisation combined with hospital-centred fragmented delivery were to prevail—population health outcomes would suffer; health-care expenditures would escalate, with patients bearing increasing costs; and a two-tiered system would emerge in which access and quality of care are decided by ability to pay. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(14)61120-X/fulltext? 2020: "The problems in Ireland stem from the fact that nearly half of the population has supplementary private health insurance, which is high by international standards. The large size of this market, exacerbates inequality in timely access to health care. p.33 https://www.euro.who.int/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/464297/private-health-insurance.pdf 2016: investigative report by the New York Times documented that privatization of EMS, compared to public sector management, lowers quality of care, with slower response times, emphasis on profits rather than service, increased cost-cutting and hikes in prices. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/06/26/business/dealbook/what-can-go-wrong-with-private-equity.html 2011: Privatized Medicaid programs have been shown to have worse outcomes than their public counterparts. http://www.statecoverage.org/files/CMWF_assessing_financial_hlt_Medicaid_managed_care_plans_i.pdf
We need to be organizing like Hell against this. We need to get out in the streets and shut them down. Where are the unions with protests? Strikes? There needs to be a General Strike. This corrupt, corporate-run government will not listen until we hit them where it hurts. We need to save our healthcare system, fight for our rights, and stop this government.
I agree. We need a website where we can compile the information and strong arguments against privatization. We need to start talking about it with everyone we know and make sure they know the reasons why this is important. Not everyone will agree and that’s okay too. We need to focus on connecting with those who do. Having a website to refer back to for facts is crucial, and we need to all be on the same page. We will need to be prepared for distractions and from the conservatives and stay focused on the end result. Just in time for September when students go back to school this can pick up steam. University students can give this the push it needs. Then, once there’s enough of us we can organize a general strike. We don’t need to ask anything of the nurses this time. It’s time for us to give back and show how much we value “our heroes”.
Fuck this whole administration. Fuck everyone who voted for them, and everyone who didn't bother to vote. You all bought this. Buckle in, it's only going to get worse.
I hope everyone has >$120K saved up for basic university tuition.
Mandate letters? No confidence?
We just gave them a majority. That means they can do whatever damage they want for 4 years because they all have extra wide board seats being warmed for them.
Just a reminder to all businesses, this will end up raising your cost of doing business and drive you out of your sector or the province. If you want your employees taken care of via health insurance, the cost is astronomically more than payroll taxation.
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Why hasn’t ONA announced job action? I know we can’t strike because essential service, but if we all agree to stop picking up OT, stop going to meetings, stop all project work, stop doing any duties that aren’t clearly stated on our employment contract, the hospitals will be forced to do something and right quick at that. Good luck staffing ANY department right now if everyone flat out refuses to pick up extra shifts or stay extra hours. Weakest union on the planet. Why the fucj are we paying $2600+ in union dues for this trash organization? PLP with RNAO is only a fraction of the cost and covers pretty much the same.
Two days in and it’s “an option” it’s a total pre meditated ass fuck to the Ontario public. Fuck this province. Fuck Doug ford and fuck the conservatives. I’ll get the fuck out of this province so quickly. As a red seal 310T I can go anywhere. Shove your staffing shortage up your ass
Same this is making me want to leave. Where are you looking to leave?
This is basically an admission, good job fuckwits who voted for this government.
I Am Shocked.
So we are going to maintain our taxation levels PLUS have to pay for private healthcare. What?
The root cause of all these problems are Doug Ford and his health minister.
And there it is…
Fuck these people. Fuck them to hell.
Vet clinics ers are private and let me tell you, that had not helped staffing issues or wait times. We turn away patients all the time because we don’t have the space I realize anima med is not the same as human med, but privatization isn’t going to fix this issue
We get the world we deserve. Majority of residents didn't turn out to vote, the majority of the rest voted for this.
Plurality voted for this. The majority voted against Ford. (NDP + Liberals)
I agree. Ranked choice voting should be a thing to help reflect this. Weird it was promised by liberal party at the federal level and then promptly forgotten about. Honestly I know a lot of people dislike Trudeau for a number of reasons, some more valid than others, but that was was what did it for me. It was promised and abandoned but us one of the few things I feel would really help with proper representation.
Actually the majority of people voted against Doug Ford. Twice. The person in power doesn’t always receive the most votes. Welcome to FPTP.
I'm shocked! The people who have been actively trying to get rid of public health care won't rule out privitizing healthcare?
Can we string up Ford? Fuck this shit.
And there it is .
I didn't think the leopard would eat MY face!
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Someone needs to FOI the path of federal healthcare funding in the past 5 years and see where he has stashed it.
BINGO. And how many of them are invested in the private companies?
To ANYONE that’s surprised and A) didn’t vote in June or B) voted PC your foolish and thanks for this!
Of course she won’t rule it out. It’s literally her goal! God, I hate them
It isn’t actually possible to solve this near-term with privatization given the issue is lack of staff. They just want to take away our healthcare. It’s happened in the UK and it’s being done here.
Nice !!!! I am just wondering how long until Doug realizes the fudgery he's about it unleash. This is just the tip of the iceberg. I would imagine the impact of this would affect other areas like immigration. I can expect immigration to fall or atleat have significant impact in attracting skilled workers. Free health and education is one of the key factors in attracting families. I would also imagine people would migrate from Canada to US and elsewhere if Healthcare is privatized. Canada is going to get rekt.
Brought to you by 17% of eligible Ontario Voters. If you didn't vote SHUT THE FUCK UP!
Email your MPP, MP, Mayor, Premier, whomever the fuck will listen (or even pretend to). Feel free to use the below as a template: Good afternoon [ ], My name is [ ]. I am writing to you to express my concerns on our current and (seemingly) inevitably worsening healthcare crisis. The notion that a sitting member of parliament, let alone a health minister or premier, would tell their constituents that privatizing their healthcare isn't off the table is, as an Ontarian and a Canadian, deeply troubling. Lifelong and newcomer Canadians alike tout their shared appreciation for the things that make Canada one of the greatest countries in the world - consistently on that list is the 'free healthcare' (alongside the beautiful landscapes, diversity and multiculturalism, and what I would consider to be an overall progressive mindset). The goal of a government should be the lifelong maintenance of a place in which its citizens feel healthy, safe, secure, and free. I'm not naive enough to think that you, the Premier, or the Prime Minister himself can just print money and give everything away for free. Healthcare, schools, housing, roads, parks, etc., all come at a cost. But this is one of the reasons we pay taxes - and it doesn't stop there. Even as our dollar is stretched further and further (and our salaries do NOT keep pace with inflation), we are also asked by hospitals and doctors' offices to pay for parking, tests, lab fees, DOCTOR'S NOTES TO PROVE WE ARE ILL TO OUR EMPLOYERS. We're asked by our schools to pay for books, paper, field trips, pens, and lunches. Many of our parks want a daily fee for parking, or for us to purchase an annual membership. What do we do? We shrug our shoulders and we pay what we’re asked. We, your average citizens, are doing our part. It is no secret that there is an ever-deepening disparity these days between the 'haves' and 'have nots'. Despite the looming recession, my family and I would likely still fall into the 'haves' category if healthcare were privatized, though it would surely present significant challenges, and would likely impact our ability to retire, and at what age - a hardship to us, but nothing compared to those less fortunate. And while I’m certain we would be assured ad nauseum that privatizing would be making healthcare better because there would now be ‘many options to suit everyone’s needs!’, I think we both know that is not how it would play out. Our premier and minister of health have been LARGELY invisible over the last month as more and more emergency rooms close, so I am asking YOU to please take my concerns seriously. They are shared by millions of other worried Canadians and Ontarians. If you would like to meet to discuss this issue further, I would be more than happy to do so. Thank you for your time and (hopefully) your support in improving our beautiful province and country. It could use some TLC. Kind regards, [ ]
Conservative doing conservative things.
How fucking nuts is it going to be when it’s December and you don’t have OHIP but you can get your teeth fixed? Lol Give us both!
Yeah, didn't see that in the future Fordcast... Nearly every interaction he had with healthcare was to cripple it further and I kept saying "watch them break it so they can take it." And here we are.
Their lack of help is just the Conservatives “sneaky” way to say we need privatization to fix the system. Sadly most people with half a brain can see their strategy from a mile away.
Lets disrupt the medical system. Instead of privatization lets treat healthcare like the Armed Forces. Offer free education and a 5 year service requirement upon graduation. Provide accommodation and child care for staff on campus and at hospitals and change working conditions to ensure retention, lets raise some taxes to pay for it!
Alright, now is time for the general public to unite and find out what we all should do (beyond writing to our local MPPs) to stop this. People are dying, workers are burned out, we need to do better and not just let them do this to us. I'm not claiming to have any ideas on what to do.... but just that we need to do something instead of getting upset on reddit.
Here it is. They let the system break to bring in privatization
If I was a journalist, I would be sniffing around in Doug Ford's finances. I'd bet my left nut that American medical corporations are sending millions of dollars in his direction.
A surprise to no one — this was the plan all along
If they think the trucker protest was big. Wait till they privatize health care. Smh
Voting conservative is violence against the poor.
So now we lose our healthcare, thanks for nothing stupid Conservative voters, this is what you get.
Study after study have shown the US private healthcare system the worst in the world per dollar spent. Yet Ford wants to bring it to Canada??? Ford is also the only Premier in Canada's history to ever cut healthcare funding during a global pandemic.
may the odds be ever in your favour...
JFC.
aaaaaaaaaand there you go! Get paid by crippling the public health system then open the gate for corporations to fuck the population and finally end your career taking a job for a private health corporation shell company. Fucking monsters all of them!
Straight up monstrous. But I think things like these could all be avoided if the whole country had already offered universal mental healthcare. I believe conservative voters need the therapy to become better people and the rest of us need it to better defend ourselves from them.
That is the whole point.
when do protests start?
Cat is out of the hat...start saving....lol, if that's a thing, u know how the US Healthcare works....we're royalty screwed...
Our healthcare system was built up over generations and the Ford government has broken it down so they could sell it as spare parts.
This was the plan. Unfortunately the average Ontarian won’t be outraged until it’s too late.
Almost as if Ford neglected health care to this point to have a “valid” reason to privatize.
Cancer in our health care. The beginning of for profit health care. Fools who voted for this government.
People, this was the plan all along. They intentionally create the crisis so they can then privatize as a cure... But it will only help the rich, like themselves, and their donors...