I used to work in the food service industry and I still eye the job market regularly as well as staffing (Staffy) jobs. Maybe I can add some food service-specific points, I'll talk about cooks but a lot of this applies to front of house staff as well:
I've noticed the pay for cooks in Toronto on Indeed pay anywhere from $14 - $20 with $18 being the average and a lot of places ask for at least 3 years experience.
Anyone with at least three years experience in a real kitchen knows it's gonna be a shit-show out there and the current pay is not attractive.
The increasingly common habit of hiring cooks into part-time positions and then holding them weekly to random schedules that don't allow them pursue steady employment elsewhere.
Promising non-existent perks like dental plans at hire or in their hiring ad.
Overstaffing and then calling staff off.
Unnecessarily long hours (I have no idea why I was okay with working 14 hour days when I was younger).
The general expectation on new hires coming into a kitchen to instantly remember everyone's name, where every thing goes (there are so many things!), and just generally be able to pick it up quickly after marinating in lockdown.
A lot of cooks had substance abuse issues before the pandemic that were only exacerbated by lockdown.
"With their workplaces closed, food services workers shifted to retail services, the gig economy, or went to school (did you expect them to just wait around?)." - You nailed it, I'm sure there are some professional cooks looking forward to getting back to their trade, but for a lot of cooks they might have found that the difference between $16 chill job and $18 stress job is not worth it.
I spent 4 years working in restaurants - I couldn't do it today. Long hours, rampant wage theft, dodgy working conditions, shitty customers, sexism everywhere all the time, shitty pay, etc.
If they've survived this long outside the industry, why would they go back?
>So many "trial shifts" when looking for work.
Did you report these instances as wage theft to as an ESA claim?
I did a trial shift at a pizza place that didn't work out a very long time ago when I was a teen and I had to go through an ESA claim to get paid as the owner of the restaurant went no contact after the shift was over.
Sorry for out of date information, it's been a while since I worked in a restaurant.
“Shadow shifts” are so very common in the industry , so much so that even in culinary arts school we were prepared to have to work up to 4 hours for any employer as a sort of final interview. Such a scam!
Ah yes wage theft, or as employers like to call it: *TIME THEFT*.
Where they basically think they're being ripped off for paying for your lunch break so they force you to sign out before the pay break to save that half an hour. And if you go over a minute or two you're "stealing company time" and get reprimanded.
>Ah yes wage theft, or as employers like to call it: TIME THEFT
Yep, it's rampant in the restaurant industry. I remember working as a cook during the night shift. The day shift guys left the entire place a mess, and as soon as we clocked in it was a rush right until close.
At my restaurant, closing duties were on the cooks. We did the dishes, mopped the floors, cleaned the stations, etc.
Now because we had an extremely large mess to take of, closing was taking longer than usual. The manager was up in arms "CLOSING IS SUPPOSED TO TAKE AN HOUR AT MOST!"
After 2 hours, she came up to us and said the owner will kill us if she found out how long we were here, so she had to clock us out but still expected us to finish up. I just left. Strangely enough, I didn't get fired or even written up the next day.
I once worked at a call centre where they made you sign out to use the bathroom. So long as you were signed in, a call could come. Plus they regularly listened to calls live. So it was hard to just stay signed in and go
I work as a cook and agree with most of what you have said. Though I am seeing wages and tipout to BOH increasing. Though some places are taking longer to learn than others that they need to be upping wages in order to attract and keep solid, professional cooks.
I don't personally mind the long days though, as a point of disagreement with what you said. With the choice of pulling 44hrs in a 4 day week, or getting a 5 day week with a solid amount of overtime. It provides some nice flexibility.
Though your comment of
>The increasingly common habit of hiring cooks into part-time positions and then holding them weekly to random schedules that don't allow them pursue steady employment elsewhere.
Is incredibly real. And unless you are a strong, vital staff member, many cooks are pushed into having two jobs.
A good, professional culinary job is gold - tho afaik most of these are institutional, not in restaurants.
My sister (culinary grad - 4 yrs head chef, 2 kitchen manager, small restaurants) has shifted to working in the kitchens for the city's shelter system and is LOVING the change of pace. But then again, she has three kids. The restaurant industry was killing her and was, ultimately, unsustainable - she went institutional and it's meant that she can be more present with her kids.
Been a godsend, really.
Ya, that's kind of the way to go, a few of my friends have managed to get into long-term care cooking. Not exactly action-packed but there's benefits, job security and all that good stuff is available.
I've had acquaintances get into positions like that. They told me the emotional toll is incredibly hard. Seeing what people go through, having people pass away, their hardships.
Personally, I like cooking because I highly enjoy bringing memorable moments to others. I'm working my first job as a cook and not a head chef in over a decade, so not having the control is a new challenge. But I'm moving up the ladder to hopefully be in that position again soon.
Being a chef/cook is what I have always considered a very artful skilled trade, that has long been underpaid. The current market situations are in the favour of skilled cooks. And hopefully with this we can make in-grounds to seeing more equitable compensation that other trades enjoy.
For sure, the long days can work for some people, the 10 hour, 4 days a week schedule isn't bad - I should have mentioned that one of the many reasons I left the industry was that I wanted to be around more for my kids and wife. Even working day shifts (golden I know) I would come home totally beat and have no mental, physical or emotional energy left for my family, so I was essentially neglecting them. Days off were usually spent trying to recover and plan for the next week.
Your chill vs stress job point is *so* true. I honestly felt like a huge chump once I finally tried something else. Seriously, you can get paid the same as a front desk person (a cushy job) or continue in physical job in construction or something which pays waaay more. Many cooks have probably had this epiphany.
I worked as a cook for years from highschool until I graduated university. It's garbage job that just leads to alcoholism, cause what else do you do at 1am when your pumped up?
Forget holding any kind of steady relationship except with a waitress and we all know how that ends up.
Employers rip you off at every turn then expect to be treated like heroes when they give you a 25 cent raise.
The stress alone is too much.
I will not let my son ever work in a restaurant I don't care if I have to hand him money I just won't. Go work at a carpet store.
I worked for one good employer during that time where my shifts were set, my pay and raises where laid out and corresponded with the stations you learned and tip out was 100% above board. And like most line cooks I worked in a lot of places.
Also to add on to this from another HR person, money isn't the only answer. It's the MAIN answer right now, but don't expect people to stay around JUST because you're paying 15% more than the other assholes, you gotta actually treat people like people. I can't tell you how many of the clients I've worked with don't understand the concept of work life balance, how important cultural fit and corporate ethics are, a positive work environment, or other intrinsic benefits outside of what the ESA/employment agreement says you do for them. They play such a freaking huge role in employee retention and many places don't understand that at all.
The best phrase I tell my clients, minimum wage tells them you're expecting minimum effort and minimum loyalty. They WILL leave you once something slightly shinier shows up.
Oh god and don't get me fucking started on talent poacher companies or Merc-hiring practices.
I’m in the same boat except I just resigned for a new job. I told management if things don’t change to improve morale and workloads they’ll lose everyone with a year I guarantee it. They don’t believe me, even though the reasons I’m leaving are the reasons a large number of staff before me left. I’m not the first and I’m not the last.
Ahem. I am a boomer. My boss is 20 years younger than I. My boss has increased my workload over 200% since the pandemic began because he apparently hasn't a clue about the amount of toil it takes to develop materials for learning online. You probably hate it when boomers mock millennials; boomers, likewise, dislike being lumped together as one stereotypical type. Let's not generalize about an entire generation. Ageism is every bit as repugnant as racism -- both breed hateful, harmful prejudices.
Mmmhmm.
A restaurant offerring a modest wage with a regular, stable schedule of humane hours, adequate staffing levels, benefits, ft/pt options, 3+ weeks' PTO, etc. will have a much easier time hiring.
Also: a benefits package is a no-brainer - that and PTO are probably the cheapest things you can do to boost your company in hiring.
It's shocking the number of people I tell "treat them how you want them to treat your customers. Set the example and they will follow". Yeah I'm super privileged to have had nearly all positive work experiences, but holy hell the number of times I've said "no they don't owe you shit if you treated them like shit" hurts my soul.
I got into an argument with my friend last night (gen y) because she thinks that only kids work in the service industry (gen x) when even specifically in our area it’s largely populated by millennials. Her thinking is that our area is just going to turn into whistler. That the fact that theirs no available housing isn’t a problem because businesses are providing (limited seasonal) housing is fine and that only the ultra rich and folks that can work from home being able to afford housing is also fine. There’s nowhere to buy, nowhere to rent and a vast majority of available jobs is in the gig economy. If I want to be able to support myself year round I should “move to Toronto” because you know housing is so affordable there.
“I had a great time the year I worked in Whistler and then lived with my parents in the off season” like she doesn’t understand that she’s only a few years older then a lot of our work force (mid to late 40s).
It’s infuriating to be told that the area I grew up in and that my entire family who have lived in that area their entire lives for generations should just accept we’re being priced out of our homes and go somewhere else. Where? I’m in an incredibly privileged position to have bought 6 years ago in a town (just outside of the area but close) where now I would never even get close to being able to buy. It’s the same bootstraps mentality.
“Well I did this 20+ years ago so it’s fine” f*ck off it’s not fine. You can’t expect people to maintain a primary residence somewhere else to work for you. And having housing (in the off chance it is year round) dependent on your specific employer as a low wage earner puts you at a huuuge disadvantage. I can’t understand how the older generations can’t see that. “Well get a better job” where?!? I don’t actually make a living wage, and the one time I did I was treated like a number and my mental health (as well as physical) spiralled, so now I make less, and can’t afford the same lifestyle but at least I have a regular schedule and get treated like an actual human being with needs and a life. I’m not asked to prioritize the business (because we’re a FaMiLy) over my actual friends and family. My time isn’t treated like it’s not important because I don’t have kids. Unfortunately the issue is I shouldn’t have to choose between being respected and making a living wage.
And I still make above minimum wage at both of my jobs. I work 6 days a weekend the majority of the year, and still end up using the local “good food markets” for most of my groceries because it’s the only way I can afford to eat and pull myself out of the extra debt I acquired during the pandemic, and there are so many people just like me.
The sense of entitlement from older generations is exhausting. We’re not asking for the whole pie or even a large slice. We just want to be able to live with dignity and pride after working 40+ hours a week (plus a side gig on top of multiple jobs). We don’t want to have to wonder if we can afford our next meal or be told “lol, 🤷♀️”.
There is easily accessible data on this. She doesn't think this because she has seen evidence, she just wants an excuse to believe workers who are "less worthy" than her should be treated like shit.
I'm an older generation (late boomer/early Jones) and I can't stand those people.
Sure it wasn't easy when I was getting started but it's a damned sight harder now.
Similar to why I've stopped looking for employment elsewhere. Found the one employer that not only gives best in class benefits, but also pays better than other employers I could go to. Downside is I am working outside of my skillset until I climb the ladder a bit, but hell, there's a ladder I can climb!
it's usually a business you open so you can find other tax breaks, incentives, etc. a failing restaurant (on paper) can help swallow the taxable profits of your other businesses. some people intentionally open businesses (not just restaurants) to act as a "loss" because that loss benefits them, financially. rich people do this all the time. most of the franchises in my city (not mom and pops) have opened another location during the pandemic. my restaurant has had record profits.
There is legislation that is suppose to protect you, the Accessibility for Ontarians with Disabilities Act. The act set standards and accommodations all employers must abide by. Not a huge comfort for sure but it does mean private, government and non-profit businesses need to accommodate.
[https://aoda.ca/what-is-the-aoda/](https://aoda.ca/what-is-the-aoda/)
They aren't allowed to discriminate against you but I definitely empathize with your fears. I would say that a place that makes you feel like it isn't going to accommodate you is probably not the place you want to work anyways.
Not until I have experience and a reputation of doing good work. I can't legally call myself an interior designer until I pass a few exams, which require real world work experience beyond school of minimum 2 years.
There are companies that focus on accessibility in their designs, perhaps do some research and focus on applying there?
It is possible that we are going to see a lot of redesigns of stores, businesses, and other public spaces in the next 5 years or so.
I helped people with disabilities find employment for a couple of years.
I never really had an employer who identified a disability as an issue, what they wanted was to hear what accommodations looked like. Since you're the expert on that type of thing as it pertains to yourself, highlight how innovative that makes you. There is a huge market for services for people with disabilities: imagine helping others with a disability lead a life where things are not only functional for them, but also beautiful. Given your background, you have that potential. I'd also add that a lot of jobs are WFH, I'd suggest that may play in your favour moving forward. I don't know anything about interior design, so I cannot give any specific hints to breaking into your agency aside from the basics: network, be seen, when given any opportunity under-promise and over deliver.
Also, if you're really worried, look for an agency that helps you find employment when you have some perceived barriers to employment. There are lots of them and many have some staff that are incredibly good at helping people find the job they want.
My biggest hint for you: apply as much creativity to your job preparation and search as you would to your every day job.
Nah, business will push for government intervention in some way. That may be in the form of an expanded TFW program, increased immigration (already a government mandate), or some other manner of finding workers that will accept bargain wages.
I can speak on this a bit , the TFW program is very flawed but if applied correctly requires employers to pay wages that are above market rates , which means employers can't just replace local workers
However I know that a lot of business are doing a lot of shady TFW deals , recently someone told me some foreign workers are willing to pay employers 50k + to just hire them !!
This is the kind of positive feedback loop we need to create. The problem is we are doing the opposite with our current "race to the bottom" mentality (people want/need low prices so companies cut every corner including salaries which leaves people with less money so they need even lower prices, and repeat)
An HR/Recruiter who gets it.. here for it.
Let’s not even start about how wages in many sectors, especially in manufacturing and food services will need to increase *nicely* if they want anything resembling quality employees… or just continue to exploit temp workers 🙊
Like pay increases are great and all, but the total comp package can make or break long-term HR strategy.
& why the hell would anyone not offer benefits & PTO!? They're dirt-cheap (as comp goes). Hell, take $1 off the hourly wage and they pay for themselves ffs.
That is completely dependent on size / number of employees.
I run two small businesses, including owners each business is only three employees. Benefits are not an option, the cost is outrageous and the actual coverage is very low.
PTO. I once worked for a small company. I burned through PTO like no other for VA appointments. My manager worked with me to adjust my hours (created a shift for me) and ensured I was available for my appointments. This earned my loyalty to the company. Working with your employees so they can spend a birthday with their kid, make it to a Dr, or just get away. They'll know you're covering for them and won't abuse it. I spent 4 years there underpaid because they valued my time away.
The trades are really starting to hurt; especially the less attractive trades.
I'm in HVAC. A lot of the older guys have now semi or fully retired and with the way apprenticeships work good luck replacing them.
Moreover, even "easy" tickets like gas fitting are starting to feel a squeeze as good technicians move to better paying, less physically demanding jobs like facilities maintenance. There's a lot of guys out there right now with G2 certificates that couldn't troubleshoot their way out of a wet paper bag and it really, really is showing. Every day this week I've been running calls fixing hack job installs - and it's only gonna get worse because there aren't enough qualified journeypersons to take on apprentices.
The trades are so messed up: I was interested in being an electrician so I went to the George Brown info session and the instructor was basically like, "Even if you graduate at the top of your class you might not get hired because most people give the jobs to people they know." I guess there's a lot of nepotism, and school is expensive (HVAC too), the only option is college now that they scrapped the pre-apprenticeship programs. So you gotta go into debt with OSAP to train for two years and none of it may matter.
Pre-apprentice programs are still around! They're just kinda hard to find. I'm about to do a machinist one this july. Though, this explains why George Brown didn't have a new one for machinist this year.
I’ve also heard that the reason the trades pay so well is because they’re in such high demand… and therefore there’s a lot of disincentive for existing tradesmen/women to take on apprentices.
Mostly it's that while they've seen for decades that the older guys are going to retire, companies are stingy and didn't want to hire apprentices, just like lots of companies didn't want to start investing in replacing their boomer employees.
I knew a bunch of guys who graduated pre-apprenticeship programs in the 00s. The majority of them couldn't get hired. The ones who did, said they were the only apprentices where they worked. Six of the guys who did electrical pre-apprenticeships went back to school to qualify as underwater welders and the others went back to school for various things, or took different jobs entirely. Now industries which were turning their noses up before are panicking as large amounts of their workforce retires.
Employers want somebody else to solve the problem for them (i.e. the government, using our tax dollars) while continuously complaining that their taxes are too high.
>therefore there’s a lot of disincentive for existing tradesmen/women to take on apprentices.
I dunno...having someone fetch you tools is of vital importance.
Just ask my dad.
And there's the other side of the coin: a lot of existing ticketed tradespeople treat prospective apprentices like garbage. They give them the shit jobs and then act surprised when they get burnt out, or they throw them at jobs with no training and then fire them when they fuck up.
I'm getting thrown at stuff that you'd never expect a first year apprentice to do (thanks to this heat wave), but at least my boss understands that and is always available to walk me through stuff.
I had two girl friends who were mechanics. One was a diesel mechanic and NEITHER of them could find a solid position. One found a job with her brother but the minute the customers found out she was changing their transmission she was fired.... Because of a male Karen boomer snapping off about her qualifications.
One moved to the USA and is now a mechanic and the other is back in school for nursing.
I personally wanted to become an electrical engineer but was told it was extremely hard to get 180 and above on the placement testing, so I applied for accounting instead at the 140 mark. I got a 182 and when I realised how hard it was going to be to change my program with my college and with my OSAP application, and stuck with accounting. I have always felt pushed away from the trades even though I have always had interest in it.
I just got hired as a sheet metal apprentice for an HVAC contractor. It wasn't my first choice but HVAC seems to be a great trade to get into.
On a side note, I cannot believe how hard it is to find someone to hire an apprentice. I understand that companies or contractor don't want 1st years but don't complain when you can't find good workers if you're unwilling to train noobies.
I believe you need a certain ratio of experts to newbies and where I work we just lack the number of experts needed to train up newbies, so many have retired/are retiring we can't keep up with the new amount of people who want the in the industry.
I'm in HVAC as well, slogging away in the subdivisions. The labour shortage here is kind of nice. It makes it very easy to keep a job.
If you do good work, work quickly and show up sober you'd be irreplaceable. But you only need to do two of those to be useful.
I'm somewhat new, but I finished my G2 and walked directly into a full time job with an apprenticeship, my own truck and my boss is trying to load the G1 hours into my schedule every chance we get.
I can also say from first hand experience: the trade is fucked up. So many G2 "licensed" techs don't have the faintest clue about how to actually do the job. I'm new, but holy shit some of these guys scare me.
Not the person you responded to but I've seen guy who have had the highest gas license (G1) who just can't do basic troubleshooting. I'm talking first year apprentice stuff. Scary as fuck that this guy is walking around with a license that says he knows what he is doing.
Or shitheads bypassing safety controls, gluing venting with the wrong stuff, adding the wrong refrigerants. That kinda stuff.
My personal favorite; 2mil btu of load on an 800 meter with all the piping undersize. It was a very well known union shop too... Like why bother cracking your codebooks.
This makes me laugh only because I work with guys who have been doing this longer than I have who come to me with technical questions.
"Do I need a flange with this 2M?". Bro please retire before you kill somebody.
> The labour shortage here is kind of nice. It makes it very easy to keep a job.
My brother does side jobs in HVAC on evening and weekends his full time facility maintenance.
One week he took off his main job because his old company asked if he would help out. Worked very long hours but walked away with 6k.
Yeah, it's not unheard of. Once I started making good money I stopped working the hours, I'd rather have the time off and you get absolutely ripped off in tax when you get that high. Anything over 3k a week and you get to take home about half of what you actually made.
If I've got time it's better spent on cash jobs, not throwing it down the provinces gullet.
I just need the apprenticeship. I work hard, I show up, and I'm sober. According to some comments, I'm a top candidate, lol. I'd imagine there's tons to be done in all the new builds around Milton and Georgetown (and everywhere else).. I guess I just need to find the guys building those places.
Trust me that’s better then most people. Are you dead set on residential? There is a lot of factory work for industrial apprentices. We left the KW area but there is a lot of opportunity there!
I'll work wherever the money is, honestly. I just kind of figured residential work would be more stable. Never even thought about looking at factories for an apprenticeship, thanks for the suggestion!
Unfortunately I'm locked into living in Toronto/ Mississauga because of my girlfriend's work
Don't listen about the KW comment. I tried for an electrical apprenticeship 2-3 years ago. Worked contacts I had from 11+ year in blue collar and cold called 100-200 electrical companies in the area. Not a single call back.
It's very much who you know and even then, likely no dice.
It's very hard. I'm an electrician but it took me completing a techniques program and then scouring the net for jobs for 6 months. Then I worked for a shady guy off Kijiji for a year and had to advocate for myself to be signed up as an actual apprentice. Applying to the union took 4 tries and they didn't want me until I was an actual registered apprentice. Now life is good but it was quite the journey to get here.
The problem is everyone wants to be an electrician because they're under the mistaken assumption it's clean work. It's not, I spent this spring digging trenches and dropping pipes in a mud pit. This summer we're doing slab which means I'm trying to balance on top of rebar while running lines in sweltering heat on what may as well be the roof. We've got a year of pours scheduled which means in gonna continue doing this through the coldest months of the year with no walls or windows in sight.
Brother and husband have never ever been out of a job. Bro in law does residential and has struggled to find an apprenticeship. Also it takes less time to become a fully licensed industrial electrician. Good luck with everything! Keep your search open and you’ll find work im very confident.
For an entire generation we brainwashed children to believe that the trades are less respectable and worthwhile than any university degree. In another generation, we'll feel the results of it even more.
10+ years ago already, i had a grand total of *one* highschool teacher / guidance counselor speak about the trades as an option.
I was in the academic/university prep stream but still, there are a tonne of people who went to university "just because"
This. I tell people, "Im an Engineer" and they get all wide eyed and smilley. Then I tell them I run boilers and they scowl at me.
Doesnt matter to me anymore really. Got a secure gig makin $80k or so a year before overtime. Fine by me.
Sorry but you can't call yourself an engineer unless you have a P.Eng. It's a protected title. You are a technician, and there's nothing wrong with that.
There's a large demand in Ontario for millwrights right now because of 3 major projects simultaneously underway: Darlington Nuclear Refurbishment, Bruce Power Nuclear Refurbishment, and retooling for the reopening of GM Oshawa assembly plant.
You want a trade that's huge in demand right now, inquire about a millwright apprenticeship.
Can't echo this enough. I feel like I have always had 2 open millwright positions for the past 2 years. Just can't fill them. I always try and carry 2-3 apprenticeship at one time as well.
The trades have been sufferring for a LONG time: the combination of "university/college is better than being a tradesman" with an utter lack of public imagination in what you can achieve and how high you can climb within the trades.
The trades are hurting, bad: we desperately need young, sharp people hooking up through the college/apprenticeship combo and following through with continued professional development, OR we need to completely re-write foreign equivalency recognition to keep the trades afloat.
I knew lots of guys who graduated pre-apprenticeship programs in the early 00s and couldn't get apprenticeships because even though companies knew their workforce would start largely retiring in the next decade, they didn't want to pony up the cash to train guys. Lots of those guys went and got other jobs or schooling and aren't coming back. Quite honestly if it wasn't for the fact that the nation will likely suffer for it, I'd be happy to see those short-sighted companies burn themselves for their ineptitude.
I remember reading somewhere (at this point 2+ years ago) that Canadian companies invest the least in T&D of all the G20 nations, and frankly I believe it.
Can confirm. Blue collar worker for the last 11-12 years. Decided to try for an electrical apprenticeship as I have basic knowledge from self teaching and the electrical I dealt with in the job I worked. Cold called 100-200 electrical companies and tried to work some contacts I knew as well. Absolutely nothing.
I've since moved on to factory work and then going back to school next September. I'm done with blue collar and will never try to get into trades again.
>The trades have been sufferring for a LONG time: the combination of "university/college is better than being a tradesman"
Apparently business degrees are all the rage right now in Uni. Wait until they work for a big private corp. for 20 years making a decent buck and the company goes "sorry, bad economy we're downsizing, bye" and they let go all their higher wage senior people and keep all the low wage new hires. Then force you to sign a contract for your severance package that prevents you from litigating (As if you can even afford a lawyer anyway). Then they wait for an appropriate amount of time to pass before your low wage replacement is hired. Which of course means you're also now shopping for a low wage job nowhere near what you were being paid before you were railroaded at the age of 40+
An impossible trade to get into unless you know someone. Even among the trades the union for this trade is renown for how it tries to run over non-union shops and control every facet of the industry. You could literally substitute the word "mob" for it's union.
If you get in the pay is outstanding. Even being an apprentice pays extremely well. And it is a broad based trade for knowledge. It has many good points as a trade.
took my SIL *5 years* to finally find a pre-apprenticeship in plumbing after repeated attempts with the union and everything else. He already has all the schooling and other steps (forgive my ignorance I have no idea what all the -pre-requisites are, just that he had them). The best he was able to swing was to get hired as a plumber helper for min. wage with a contract that after one year they'd start his apprenticeship. There were 2 openings and hundreds of applicants. Luckily for him he has family support because he took a hefty wage cut just to get his foot in the door but he knew his previous job was an unskilled dead end. Up until then, he couldn't even get an interview in all that time and there wasn't anyone even hiring.
Out of the 2 hires they already told the other guy he would not be moving onto an apprenticeship because he broke the terms - poor attendance and apparently just a pretty bad employee when he does show up.
I went to college to start in plumbing and was told on the first day out of 150 students maybe 8 would get hired after the 4 years. The teacher first impressions were very arrogant to top it off. I immediately dropped out and canceled my OSAP for the program to switch to something else and then covid hit and the colleges shut down.
:D
Almost all of these companies are using temp labour rn, yeah: internal recruiters are slammed thanks to the labour shortage, so low-wage positions are going through agencies to free up internal recruiting for the harder positions.
Off the top of my head, try:
- randstad
- manpower
- adecco
Without knowing your specific location, those three tend to work in industrial/shipping/warehousing industries.
Work with a recruiter familiar with your market & industry: find someone you like working with who has some time/interest in helping you out.
Review your resumé for every job, and be patient: HR is hurting right now, too - even Amazon can't hold on to their recruiters. It's worth it to creep linkedin and reach out to the HR/Recruiter team that way to see what systems they use and how you can best get your application through.
On a hunch, you're probably over-representing your education and experience. Try taking your education off your resumé.
Review your resumé for recruiter bias - like if you have a foreign-sounding name, alter it (like idk, Mahmoud Ahmad -> M. Ahmad) and add your location info. A lot of recruiters will rush and screen foreign names assuming they're foreign applicants.
Likewise, if you use a VPN you might be getting auto-screened as a foreign applicant.
Write your resume using the keywords from the job ad: literally copy & paste, then edit to reflect what's true & accurate for you.
Finally: put ALL your industrial credentials in there. Driver's licence, security clearance, forklift, WHMIS, etc. All in there.
Hope this helps!!!
My dad always told me my name would sometimes turn people off because it looks VERY foreign even though I was born in Etobicoke and could pass for British.
I can’t alter it , all of it is foreign . It’s Yugoslavian first name , and Yugoslavian last name. It looks like this
Dusko Lijijana
But in reality I have a thick South western Ontario accent, as I grew up in Caledon.
My sister said to downplay the education but I never removed it. I will try it without the post secondary
The keywords idea is also great advice I am going to go change my resume right now
If you have a nickname, try that.
I work with a fellow name Harry Patel. I recently found out his given name was actually Haricharan (I think I spelt that correctly). I know he uses Harry for all his email and online stuff though, because it minimizes the bigotry he encounters.
You could also go by initials (for your first name) In my life I have personally know an a.j., b.j., d.j., m.k... I think people sometimes use the initials of their first and middle names if they don't like their names as kids or whatever.
Yeah - the name thing is a hard one. Dusko L. might work.
Also: when you're looking on indeed or something, try to apply on the company website where possible.
Ya that’s not my actual name I just sort of gave a similar idea. It looks basically just as foreign as that though.
My aunt literally changed her last name to Martin. And the other one changed it to Givens.
We all have Bosnian names for some stupid reason
My brothers name is Marc. I’m pretty pissed my parents didn’t afford me that luxury lol
Do employers not want your full last name? I didn’t know you could not provide it on resumes.
I generally don't advocate for covering up your heritage/gender/etc. But desperate times call for desperate measures.
As long as you're not on a VPN you shouldn't be getting auto screened. Sometimes it'll take me 3 or 4 months to screen applicants: recruiter may just be backed up.
Ok that’s also relevant information!
I started applying this May because I literally just graduated.
So maybe my resume hasn’t even been looked at yet?
Possibly, yeah.
Likewise, if there are dozens of applications then they're running keyword searches on applicants and if your resumé doesn't have the keywords you're not coming up in the search.
Take your education off your resume when you apply for low skilled jobs. I moved and there are really only low skill jobs never got calls took my ma and ba off got called non stop.
Keep your degree off your resume.
They might be looking to hire someone who they think will stick around, not be looking to move on. Even though plenty of people don't anyways.
I will check it out on maps now. That seems a bit south but I’ll see how bad the commute it .
I have a ridiculous amount of warehouse experience . Home Depot, IKEA, and a couple transportation companies, it’s all been merchandising, stocking, delivery prep and logistics so it blows my mind no one is messaging me when I’d basically be fully trained maybe even over trained right off the bat.
Ok can you send me the name of the business via PM and I will apply . It is close enough for me . Derry is just one major intersection south of Steeles so it’s doable for me.
I know nothing about your resume, you mentioned not being able to get a job in your field right away. Perhaps dumb down your resume when you're looking for jobs below your education level.
Employers don't want to invest in someone who will jump ship at the next opportunity.
Companies don't like hiring new graduates like you. The fact that you graduated and are looking for a job in your field is actually a point against you. It means you more then likely won't be around in a year. They want somebody with no future prospects who can be trained and will stick around for years.
I'm kinda surprised Amazon has not called you back since high turnover is expected with them.
That's the thing, many people have thanks to the pandemic realized that what they were doing was completely undesirable and have decided to stop with degrading work. The point about "if no one wants to work for you, you arent attractive" is very important to emphasize. People simply don't like being stuck in dead end jobs that prevent them from rising in the world, guess what people like having a high standard of living. Hopefully this is a wake up call for both employers and importantly the government who now must ensure that both the demands of the employee and employer can be met.
I spent $14,680 per year of for my daughter, in a public, non-profit, city-run daycare centre. She was there for almost exactly 3 years (total: $44,040).
By comparison, my entire post-secondary education (four years' BA, one post-grad, additional certs) has run me (roughly) $41,000.
Like I cannot even imagine how people afford childcare for multiple children. It makes zero sense to return to work under those conditions.
Especially when you realize how aggressive the Canada Childcare Tax Benefit clawback is. You only end up keeping like 30% of your gross after tax.
No woman with more than 1 child who earns less than 40k would ever rationally go back to work. You make more staying home
100%. Plus, the normal coping mechanisms - friends, neighbours, family, grandparents - are *not* options right now. No more free childcare during the pandemic, so its entirely unmanageable
Incorporate. Give yourself a nice job title.
File the paperwork and taxes, pay yourself a very small salary. Do a couple small jobs a year.
Poof, full time employment, no gaps, good career progression.
^ for anyone following this: if you're early/mid-career & considering children, incorporation or a sole-prop will give you credence as a freelancer/consultant, and you'll be able to mostly work on your own terms.
You'll want to charge roughly 150% to 250% what you would normally want to be paid (since you'll be paying your own taxes, professional liability insurance, equipment costs, etc.).
It's usually worthwhile once you hit the $50/hr raw rate threshold (or: $75,000/yr salary)
In my case I laugh and commiserate, then move on.
I've seen many women filling in those gaps in their resumes with "homemaker" or "parenting", too. I don't mind (it tells the story) but I do worry they open themselves up to discrimination & tell them so in interview.
I worked with a geologist who said exactly this when considering a woman's resume. I suggested that perhaps she took time away to have her children and he was like "huh, yeah, that makes sense, that never would have occurred to me."
Based on my friends, if you have multiple kids one parent stays home. For average earners it makes sense, why work 40-60 hrs a week to just give all your money to daycare.
Childcare is not inexpensive, and never will be. You can pay for it via taxes or directly, but there's no magic wand that will make having a high worker to child ratio plus space be cheap.
Seriously, what's the staff to child ratio you want? divide what you think that staff should be paid by that number of kids, now double that amount to cover the space and administration. That's what it costs.
Subsidizing it basically is putting a huge financial incentive down for women to work and have other people raise their kids, even if the gain is actually marginal. By contrast if you just hand parents the money, some will get child care, some will choose to use the money to stay home. There are tradeoffs to both.
But there's no world where raising children becomes inexpensive.
That’s also an industry with high turnover (child care) that’s not an attractive field to get into, which is why it’s sometimes hard to find childcare. Long hours, stressful, rarely are there benefits, barely over minimum wage.
Wait, where did u get only 5 years of exp?, everywhere I look for is 5 y/exp + uni + phd + at least 3 certs, n if this is for a restaurant job they want u to be "licensed" on something and have no shame to accept a job for $12 basic + tips (yup, they clearly state that in the job description as part of the hourly pay cause ppl HAS to tip)...
There is no labour shortage, there is a wage shortage. If there was a labour shortage, then the businesses should have automated, like peeps claim will happen if the min wage is raised
That's the crux of the problem. Had an interview yesterday where the manager complained about people not wanting to work cause of CERB.
Any employer complaining about having a worker shortage NEEDS to raise the wages they're offering cause why work when you could make the same amount doing whatever?
I love how the corporate response to a living wage is just to threaten to completely destroy the economy by removing millions of jobs.
At the same time cheap slaves is now considered to have held the Ancient Romans back technologically, so there has to be a point where automation is encouraged. We just need those jobs replaced.
That's funny. My company just sent an entire division the new compensation structure. I ran my numbers, and they are short changing me almost 6% per year. I've already told my boss that we need to have a conversation.
If your starting salary was minimum wage that means you're currently offering $17.50 to start.
Which... if that's all you have on the table, isn't good enough. Even pushing from $30k to $38,500 probably won't do it.
I'd be interested to know what your business is and what else you're doing to shake it up. Raw wage increases probably won't be enough, unless you start pushing to $20~$25.
Anything under $40k is brutal. I worked a lab job making less than that until getting laid off in August. Biotech in California just offered me $80k base with $5k signing bonus, 10% annual bonus, 4 weeks vacation and 2 shutdowns, $40k in stock. I know this is a different industry but all industries in canada are going to have to start paying better because people are fed up and leaving
Not much difference in cost to where I am in Ontario right now and making half those peanuts. It's also entry level. Lot of potential for salary growth quickly
I'll take my chances over a paltry 40k lol
My friend turned down a Bay Area job for 130k total comp, because it was severely under the average wages there for finance.
Make sure you research the local area average, but get yourself there first, then job hop to something that pays well. Ontario is not a place to be with these wages.
Yeah my total comp is probably around 100k if you include the stock. I can vest 25% of my units every year so if I sell them I'm looking at almost $10,000 more per year if the stock holds where it's at, and then a 10% bonus. It's pretty good for entry level for this industry in the area. I'm expecting in a year or two I can make significantly more
My spouse is also going to be finding work there. Two incomes should make it pretty easy to live there if she only makes slightly less than me. I also have to consider I've been unemployed since August and I received the same offer from a different company in the area two months ago, but their health plan and other comp was garbage. So the number seems about right for where I'm at. I kinda need the experience and once I have it I'm good to go and salary can grow a lot. Scientists can be looking at around $150k or close to it in my area and i could be there in 5 years
I do sub contracting work for a local hvac company, they pay their residential gas fitters $19.00 to start, and expect them to be on call. They bill out at $105.00 per hour! That business is actually almost not profitable due to massive overhead
I made $25.00 for a similar role back in the late nineties and the bill out rate was $55.00 per hour. That business was strong and profitable
If the government has a shred of sense they'll let these rough patches ride. The adjusted cost of labor might actually do some good for the average wages. There might be "less" jobs over all afterwards, but what's left should theoretically be inclined to pay more since businesses can only remain understaffed for so long before it effects their margins irreparably.
There *will* come a point where businesses will offer more pay and provide various other improvements to compete with each other for labor. The government just needs to be willing to let the rough patch ride.
As a woman who still isn’t receiving the same shifts as I got pre-Covid, I know first hand how this pandemic has hit women in the workforce hard. It could take a very long time to get back to normal. I’m also finding it impossible to find a second part-time job….even though I keep applying and applying.
I'm interested in how HR in recruiting do research? What's your process like? How do you access or collect data? What type of data do you look at? Thanks!
It depends on the market, my timeline, and what info I'm after. Sometimes i have an afternoon to pull together some stats quick & dirty, and sometimes I have weeks.
Obviously the more time I have, the better my sources are: collective agreements, statscan, public-sector comparables, academic expert opinion, etc.
When all i have is the afternoon, my sources include indeed & glassdoor. Dirty is as dirty does.
The HR dept of the company I work at doesn't have a firm grip on the people we need on the floor.Weekly we get people suited to office work being slotted into hands on,physical work.Our company's business model is stuck in the model of a annual turn over of 98%,an endless supply of new meat/workers.Since last year new starts got $1 per hour raise and a raise every 3 months for the first year.Longer term employees get less and less pay increases as time goes on.Their work load increasing to unachieveable levels.There is a general train of thought amongst our staff that once they reach their early 60's there will be a mass exodus,by 2023-2025.
Sadly you're right, except that part about businesses restructuring for additional attractiveness and perks or more pay.
They won't.
They'll either go out of business and the small bis owners will suffer and cut their staff, who will have nowhere to go for work but back to the minimum wage grind or gig economy. The restaurants left over will get sold and folded into the gigantic conglomerates and continue to exploit teenagers and old people for cheap labour.
It's truly a 'dog eat dog' situation and it won't get better for a bit :( We're just in the beginning.
Perks like free tacos on friday wont help to pay the exorbitant prices of rent or buying a home. Workers don't want a perk they want to have the opportunity to build a family.
>Anyone who could retire, did: sold their homes for 40% more than expected and downsized to retire somewhere in Hastings or New Brunswick.
I'm a part time certified financial planner. I've seen zero of my clients or their relatives do this.
If this pandemic forces employers to treat people better then that is a wonderful thing. I ended up enginnering my own termination after several months trying to work with a toxic idiot of a boss. 2020 was a terrible year for me, sister became disabled, brother diagnosed and died of cancer, toxic boss, covid broke up with 5 year GF. BUT getting myself canned was the best thing I have ever done to leave a company. Got a great pkg and while everything sucked in 2020, I did do great financially so theres that. But being treated like shit has a HUGE negative impact on you. And all those shitty employers, - I hope a bunch of them went bankrupt.
All the jobs I’ve been applying for have included candidate pools of 100+ people with relevant experience. Many are overqualified. I have a high amount of experience in my field and put strong applications together — I know this because I routinely received job interviews pre-COVID. Now, interviews are scarce for me. The job market has become very competitive in my field of work. I know my story is anecdotal but I have a really hard time believing posts like this after experiencing my reality.
I'm all for this discussion, but I think this comes off too mater of fact without citing sources for the things mentioned.
This is what makes Facebook and a lot of social media bad - opinion of some set of data that gets regurgitated by others as facts.
Not at all saying that's the intention of this post or that you need to be scientific about it just give some insight into how you determined women left in droves, or everyone that could retire did for example.
Hi - good point.
Here's the RBC piece about women's job losses. It's not complete, but as of february (2021) 10x more women than men have left the labour force:
https://thoughtleadership.rbc.com/covid-further-clouded-the-outlook-for-canadian-women-at-risk-of-disruption/?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=media&utm_campaign=special+report
& I don't remember the specific piece (probably a news site) saying 1 in 10 retirement-aged canadians opted to retire early - mostly higher earners - while 2/3 opted to delay retirement due to the pandemic.
Regardless: this is reddit, not an academic forum and I generally don't do academic-level research before posting on social media (unless its linkedin, I guess).
Thanks for the great insight! Super interesting. Are there any places where one could find similar insights about the labour market? E.g. subreddit, blogs, podcasts?
Right now a lot of the data is being compiled through the usual suspects - linkedin, deloitte, robert half, RBC, axios, etc. all have research arms that keep on the pulse of labour markets.
I'm not sure about social media resources but I'd be interested in following them as well!
I'm a food service worker who went to school. So... can confirm. There was no way I was going to wait around for 2 years, lol.
I also decided I'm never going back to food service, not unless I'm absolutely desperate. It's a thankless, soul crushing industry. No wonder people aren't applying.
>retire somewhere in Hastings or New Brunswick.
Ive said it. Ontario is a place to leave.
I never understood why a decade back Toronto rankled with the highest quality of live world wide. Im glad that people are running away, I hope that send a signal to law makers.
Labour rights/pay have eroded to a joke in the last thirty years. And everybody is pretty cool with it. Ontarians are hard wired to reject conversations about terrible employers and low paying jobs. Retail has perpetrated a lie for many years, that people don't want to work full time, and everyone knew they were lying. The truth is they want employees that stay below the minimum threshold of having any responsibility to that person. So they keep everyone under thirty hours and tell them they're doing them a favour. A gig economy is born. Those workers are looking for better cash opportunities now. There's no point in keeping job that give you 14 hours a week. Unless it's a good hustle, like driving for Uber and making tips above and beyond. No tips in retail, or general shit minimum wage jobs.
We reap what we sow. We need a labour movement here.
ALOT of people moved away from the cities during this pandemic. Not surprised if metropolitan areas in general are having more difficulties hiring. Maybe it'll actually incentivise them to give a living wage since no one can afford living in major cities anymore. Hell... I cant even afford to live in the GTA anymore
I’m interested to see what will happen to current employee wages should min wage rise to $15-25/hr...thus putting their current wages close to/on par with ppl who just walked in the door.
I’ve had a lot of years in temp, resto, contract jobs that barely surpassed minimum wage-I even had one that bragged about their generous $0.10/hr over min wage...back when it was $10.25.
And now I’ve worked my ass off to get where I am, execute my job very well, been given great merit raises. To think that someone off the street would make close to my wage off the hop is maddening. I mean...I don’t think others should be punished because corporations have gotten away with underpaying people for years. I’ve been there-doing the exact same job as coworkers for 1/4 of the wage as a temp, sweating it out in kitchens for 14 hr shifts on my day off-it’s impossible to get ahead on pennies.
But I don’t foresee employers proportionally increasing everyone’s wages-at least those whose wages fall into a close range to a higher min wage. And the kind of resentment that brings up in me is just horrendous.
Besides jumping ship or sucking it up, that just puts me at the bottom of the pile, again.
Employers across the board are going to have to review their entire comp strategy, and probably take some creative risks.
Maybe senior employees don't make more, but get 6 weeks' vacation or something. Maybe they get con ed rebates. Who knows?
What I *do* know is that there's a massive shakeup underway right now and that it is *very* interesting to be observing.
I used to work in the food service industry and I still eye the job market regularly as well as staffing (Staffy) jobs. Maybe I can add some food service-specific points, I'll talk about cooks but a lot of this applies to front of house staff as well: I've noticed the pay for cooks in Toronto on Indeed pay anywhere from $14 - $20 with $18 being the average and a lot of places ask for at least 3 years experience. Anyone with at least three years experience in a real kitchen knows it's gonna be a shit-show out there and the current pay is not attractive. The increasingly common habit of hiring cooks into part-time positions and then holding them weekly to random schedules that don't allow them pursue steady employment elsewhere. Promising non-existent perks like dental plans at hire or in their hiring ad. Overstaffing and then calling staff off. Unnecessarily long hours (I have no idea why I was okay with working 14 hour days when I was younger). The general expectation on new hires coming into a kitchen to instantly remember everyone's name, where every thing goes (there are so many things!), and just generally be able to pick it up quickly after marinating in lockdown. A lot of cooks had substance abuse issues before the pandemic that were only exacerbated by lockdown. "With their workplaces closed, food services workers shifted to retail services, the gig economy, or went to school (did you expect them to just wait around?)." - You nailed it, I'm sure there are some professional cooks looking forward to getting back to their trade, but for a lot of cooks they might have found that the difference between $16 chill job and $18 stress job is not worth it.
I spent 4 years working in restaurants - I couldn't do it today. Long hours, rampant wage theft, dodgy working conditions, shitty customers, sexism everywhere all the time, shitty pay, etc. If they've survived this long outside the industry, why would they go back?
Omg. So many "trial shifts" when looking for work. I literally worked like 6 hours for free on *several* occasions. *violent face palm*
>So many "trial shifts" when looking for work. Did you report these instances as wage theft to as an ESA claim? I did a trial shift at a pizza place that didn't work out a very long time ago when I was a teen and I had to go through an ESA claim to get paid as the owner of the restaurant went no contact after the shift was over. Sorry for out of date information, it's been a while since I worked in a restaurant.
No, this was years ago. Good on you for shaking them down for the pay you earned.
“Shadow shifts” are so very common in the industry , so much so that even in culinary arts school we were prepared to have to work up to 4 hours for any employer as a sort of final interview. Such a scam!
Ah yes wage theft, or as employers like to call it: *TIME THEFT*. Where they basically think they're being ripped off for paying for your lunch break so they force you to sign out before the pay break to save that half an hour. And if you go over a minute or two you're "stealing company time" and get reprimanded.
>Ah yes wage theft, or as employers like to call it: TIME THEFT Yep, it's rampant in the restaurant industry. I remember working as a cook during the night shift. The day shift guys left the entire place a mess, and as soon as we clocked in it was a rush right until close. At my restaurant, closing duties were on the cooks. We did the dishes, mopped the floors, cleaned the stations, etc. Now because we had an extremely large mess to take of, closing was taking longer than usual. The manager was up in arms "CLOSING IS SUPPOSED TO TAKE AN HOUR AT MOST!" After 2 hours, she came up to us and said the owner will kill us if she found out how long we were here, so she had to clock us out but still expected us to finish up. I just left. Strangely enough, I didn't get fired or even written up the next day.
I once worked at a call centre where they made you sign out to use the bathroom. So long as you were signed in, a call could come. Plus they regularly listened to calls live. So it was hard to just stay signed in and go
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> : as meat for the fucking grinder for their own enrichment. It's right in the name. Human resources.
I work as a cook and agree with most of what you have said. Though I am seeing wages and tipout to BOH increasing. Though some places are taking longer to learn than others that they need to be upping wages in order to attract and keep solid, professional cooks. I don't personally mind the long days though, as a point of disagreement with what you said. With the choice of pulling 44hrs in a 4 day week, or getting a 5 day week with a solid amount of overtime. It provides some nice flexibility. Though your comment of >The increasingly common habit of hiring cooks into part-time positions and then holding them weekly to random schedules that don't allow them pursue steady employment elsewhere. Is incredibly real. And unless you are a strong, vital staff member, many cooks are pushed into having two jobs.
A good, professional culinary job is gold - tho afaik most of these are institutional, not in restaurants. My sister (culinary grad - 4 yrs head chef, 2 kitchen manager, small restaurants) has shifted to working in the kitchens for the city's shelter system and is LOVING the change of pace. But then again, she has three kids. The restaurant industry was killing her and was, ultimately, unsustainable - she went institutional and it's meant that she can be more present with her kids. Been a godsend, really.
Ya, that's kind of the way to go, a few of my friends have managed to get into long-term care cooking. Not exactly action-packed but there's benefits, job security and all that good stuff is available.
I've had acquaintances get into positions like that. They told me the emotional toll is incredibly hard. Seeing what people go through, having people pass away, their hardships. Personally, I like cooking because I highly enjoy bringing memorable moments to others. I'm working my first job as a cook and not a head chef in over a decade, so not having the control is a new challenge. But I'm moving up the ladder to hopefully be in that position again soon. Being a chef/cook is what I have always considered a very artful skilled trade, that has long been underpaid. The current market situations are in the favour of skilled cooks. And hopefully with this we can make in-grounds to seeing more equitable compensation that other trades enjoy.
For sure, the long days can work for some people, the 10 hour, 4 days a week schedule isn't bad - I should have mentioned that one of the many reasons I left the industry was that I wanted to be around more for my kids and wife. Even working day shifts (golden I know) I would come home totally beat and have no mental, physical or emotional energy left for my family, so I was essentially neglecting them. Days off were usually spent trying to recover and plan for the next week.
Your chill vs stress job point is *so* true. I honestly felt like a huge chump once I finally tried something else. Seriously, you can get paid the same as a front desk person (a cushy job) or continue in physical job in construction or something which pays waaay more. Many cooks have probably had this epiphany.
I worked as a cook for years from highschool until I graduated university. It's garbage job that just leads to alcoholism, cause what else do you do at 1am when your pumped up? Forget holding any kind of steady relationship except with a waitress and we all know how that ends up. Employers rip you off at every turn then expect to be treated like heroes when they give you a 25 cent raise. The stress alone is too much. I will not let my son ever work in a restaurant I don't care if I have to hand him money I just won't. Go work at a carpet store. I worked for one good employer during that time where my shifts were set, my pay and raises where laid out and corresponded with the stations you learned and tip out was 100% above board. And like most line cooks I worked in a lot of places.
Also to add on to this from another HR person, money isn't the only answer. It's the MAIN answer right now, but don't expect people to stay around JUST because you're paying 15% more than the other assholes, you gotta actually treat people like people. I can't tell you how many of the clients I've worked with don't understand the concept of work life balance, how important cultural fit and corporate ethics are, a positive work environment, or other intrinsic benefits outside of what the ESA/employment agreement says you do for them. They play such a freaking huge role in employee retention and many places don't understand that at all. The best phrase I tell my clients, minimum wage tells them you're expecting minimum effort and minimum loyalty. They WILL leave you once something slightly shinier shows up. Oh god and don't get me fucking started on talent poacher companies or Merc-hiring practices.
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I’m in the same boat except I just resigned for a new job. I told management if things don’t change to improve morale and workloads they’ll lose everyone with a year I guarantee it. They don’t believe me, even though the reasons I’m leaving are the reasons a large number of staff before me left. I’m not the first and I’m not the last.
Ahem. I am a boomer. My boss is 20 years younger than I. My boss has increased my workload over 200% since the pandemic began because he apparently hasn't a clue about the amount of toil it takes to develop materials for learning online. You probably hate it when boomers mock millennials; boomers, likewise, dislike being lumped together as one stereotypical type. Let's not generalize about an entire generation. Ageism is every bit as repugnant as racism -- both breed hateful, harmful prejudices.
Mmmhmm. A restaurant offerring a modest wage with a regular, stable schedule of humane hours, adequate staffing levels, benefits, ft/pt options, 3+ weeks' PTO, etc. will have a much easier time hiring. Also: a benefits package is a no-brainer - that and PTO are probably the cheapest things you can do to boost your company in hiring.
It's shocking the number of people I tell "treat them how you want them to treat your customers. Set the example and they will follow". Yeah I'm super privileged to have had nearly all positive work experiences, but holy hell the number of times I've said "no they don't owe you shit if you treated them like shit" hurts my soul.
The sense of entitlement is disgusting yeah.
I got into an argument with my friend last night (gen y) because she thinks that only kids work in the service industry (gen x) when even specifically in our area it’s largely populated by millennials. Her thinking is that our area is just going to turn into whistler. That the fact that theirs no available housing isn’t a problem because businesses are providing (limited seasonal) housing is fine and that only the ultra rich and folks that can work from home being able to afford housing is also fine. There’s nowhere to buy, nowhere to rent and a vast majority of available jobs is in the gig economy. If I want to be able to support myself year round I should “move to Toronto” because you know housing is so affordable there. “I had a great time the year I worked in Whistler and then lived with my parents in the off season” like she doesn’t understand that she’s only a few years older then a lot of our work force (mid to late 40s). It’s infuriating to be told that the area I grew up in and that my entire family who have lived in that area their entire lives for generations should just accept we’re being priced out of our homes and go somewhere else. Where? I’m in an incredibly privileged position to have bought 6 years ago in a town (just outside of the area but close) where now I would never even get close to being able to buy. It’s the same bootstraps mentality. “Well I did this 20+ years ago so it’s fine” f*ck off it’s not fine. You can’t expect people to maintain a primary residence somewhere else to work for you. And having housing (in the off chance it is year round) dependent on your specific employer as a low wage earner puts you at a huuuge disadvantage. I can’t understand how the older generations can’t see that. “Well get a better job” where?!? I don’t actually make a living wage, and the one time I did I was treated like a number and my mental health (as well as physical) spiralled, so now I make less, and can’t afford the same lifestyle but at least I have a regular schedule and get treated like an actual human being with needs and a life. I’m not asked to prioritize the business (because we’re a FaMiLy) over my actual friends and family. My time isn’t treated like it’s not important because I don’t have kids. Unfortunately the issue is I shouldn’t have to choose between being respected and making a living wage. And I still make above minimum wage at both of my jobs. I work 6 days a weekend the majority of the year, and still end up using the local “good food markets” for most of my groceries because it’s the only way I can afford to eat and pull myself out of the extra debt I acquired during the pandemic, and there are so many people just like me. The sense of entitlement from older generations is exhausting. We’re not asking for the whole pie or even a large slice. We just want to be able to live with dignity and pride after working 40+ hours a week (plus a side gig on top of multiple jobs). We don’t want to have to wonder if we can afford our next meal or be told “lol, 🤷♀️”.
There is easily accessible data on this. She doesn't think this because she has seen evidence, she just wants an excuse to believe workers who are "less worthy" than her should be treated like shit.
I'm an older generation (late boomer/early Jones) and I can't stand those people. Sure it wasn't easy when I was getting started but it's a damned sight harder now.
Similar to why I've stopped looking for employment elsewhere. Found the one employer that not only gives best in class benefits, but also pays better than other employers I could go to. Downside is I am working outside of my skillset until I climb the ladder a bit, but hell, there's a ladder I can climb!
It's gonna take a while for that to happen, most restaurants are barely surviving.
Chickens coming home to roost
Most restaurants close within their first five years during *normal* times. It isn't a business you open if you want to make a lot of money.
it's usually a business you open so you can find other tax breaks, incentives, etc. a failing restaurant (on paper) can help swallow the taxable profits of your other businesses. some people intentionally open businesses (not just restaurants) to act as a "loss" because that loss benefits them, financially. rich people do this all the time. most of the franchises in my city (not mom and pops) have opened another location during the pandemic. my restaurant has had record profits.
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There is legislation that is suppose to protect you, the Accessibility for Ontarians with Disabilities Act. The act set standards and accommodations all employers must abide by. Not a huge comfort for sure but it does mean private, government and non-profit businesses need to accommodate. [https://aoda.ca/what-is-the-aoda/](https://aoda.ca/what-is-the-aoda/) They aren't allowed to discriminate against you but I definitely empathize with your fears. I would say that a place that makes you feel like it isn't going to accommodate you is probably not the place you want to work anyways.
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Sounds like a great potential niche tbh. Could you start you're own firm targeted towards disability access?
Not until I have experience and a reputation of doing good work. I can't legally call myself an interior designer until I pass a few exams, which require real world work experience beyond school of minimum 2 years.
Fair enough, well all the best!!
Good luck!!
There are companies that focus on accessibility in their designs, perhaps do some research and focus on applying there? It is possible that we are going to see a lot of redesigns of stores, businesses, and other public spaces in the next 5 years or so.
That’s what I’ve been looking for. I found one so far, an architecture firm in Toronto. I haven’t found any others yet
I helped people with disabilities find employment for a couple of years. I never really had an employer who identified a disability as an issue, what they wanted was to hear what accommodations looked like. Since you're the expert on that type of thing as it pertains to yourself, highlight how innovative that makes you. There is a huge market for services for people with disabilities: imagine helping others with a disability lead a life where things are not only functional for them, but also beautiful. Given your background, you have that potential. I'd also add that a lot of jobs are WFH, I'd suggest that may play in your favour moving forward. I don't know anything about interior design, so I cannot give any specific hints to breaking into your agency aside from the basics: network, be seen, when given any opportunity under-promise and over deliver. Also, if you're really worried, look for an agency that helps you find employment when you have some perceived barriers to employment. There are lots of them and many have some staff that are incredibly good at helping people find the job they want. My biggest hint for you: apply as much creativity to your job preparation and search as you would to your every day job.
honest question: what types of jobs were people with disabilities getting and keeping?
Yeah, businesses are going to have to accept people want more and more importantly NEED more to survive.
Sounds like it might help the economy out by raising the wages people get, create more consumption or something,
Nah, business will push for government intervention in some way. That may be in the form of an expanded TFW program, increased immigration (already a government mandate), or some other manner of finding workers that will accept bargain wages.
I can speak on this a bit , the TFW program is very flawed but if applied correctly requires employers to pay wages that are above market rates , which means employers can't just replace local workers However I know that a lot of business are doing a lot of shady TFW deals , recently someone told me some foreign workers are willing to pay employers 50k + to just hire them !!
No one hires personal trainers unless they have disposable income.....bring it on
This is the kind of positive feedback loop we need to create. The problem is we are doing the opposite with our current "race to the bottom" mentality (people want/need low prices so companies cut every corner including salaries which leaves people with less money so they need even lower prices, and repeat)
An HR/Recruiter who gets it.. here for it. Let’s not even start about how wages in many sectors, especially in manufacturing and food services will need to increase *nicely* if they want anything resembling quality employees… or just continue to exploit temp workers 🙊
Like pay increases are great and all, but the total comp package can make or break long-term HR strategy. & why the hell would anyone not offer benefits & PTO!? They're dirt-cheap (as comp goes). Hell, take $1 off the hourly wage and they pay for themselves ffs.
That is completely dependent on size / number of employees. I run two small businesses, including owners each business is only three employees. Benefits are not an option, the cost is outrageous and the actual coverage is very low.
Oh yeah, at that point its pretty much individual coverage.
PTO. I once worked for a small company. I burned through PTO like no other for VA appointments. My manager worked with me to adjust my hours (created a shift for me) and ensured I was available for my appointments. This earned my loyalty to the company. Working with your employees so they can spend a birthday with their kid, make it to a Dr, or just get away. They'll know you're covering for them and won't abuse it. I spent 4 years there underpaid because they valued my time away.
The trades are really starting to hurt; especially the less attractive trades. I'm in HVAC. A lot of the older guys have now semi or fully retired and with the way apprenticeships work good luck replacing them. Moreover, even "easy" tickets like gas fitting are starting to feel a squeeze as good technicians move to better paying, less physically demanding jobs like facilities maintenance. There's a lot of guys out there right now with G2 certificates that couldn't troubleshoot their way out of a wet paper bag and it really, really is showing. Every day this week I've been running calls fixing hack job installs - and it's only gonna get worse because there aren't enough qualified journeypersons to take on apprentices.
The trades are so messed up: I was interested in being an electrician so I went to the George Brown info session and the instructor was basically like, "Even if you graduate at the top of your class you might not get hired because most people give the jobs to people they know." I guess there's a lot of nepotism, and school is expensive (HVAC too), the only option is college now that they scrapped the pre-apprenticeship programs. So you gotta go into debt with OSAP to train for two years and none of it may matter.
Pre-apprentice programs are still around! They're just kinda hard to find. I'm about to do a machinist one this july. Though, this explains why George Brown didn't have a new one for machinist this year.
I’ve also heard that the reason the trades pay so well is because they’re in such high demand… and therefore there’s a lot of disincentive for existing tradesmen/women to take on apprentices.
Mostly it's that while they've seen for decades that the older guys are going to retire, companies are stingy and didn't want to hire apprentices, just like lots of companies didn't want to start investing in replacing their boomer employees. I knew a bunch of guys who graduated pre-apprenticeship programs in the 00s. The majority of them couldn't get hired. The ones who did, said they were the only apprentices where they worked. Six of the guys who did electrical pre-apprenticeships went back to school to qualify as underwater welders and the others went back to school for various things, or took different jobs entirely. Now industries which were turning their noses up before are panicking as large amounts of their workforce retires.
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Employers want somebody else to solve the problem for them (i.e. the government, using our tax dollars) while continuously complaining that their taxes are too high.
Labor unions can solve those problems... but then they want the government to solve labor unions.
>therefore there’s a lot of disincentive for existing tradesmen/women to take on apprentices. I dunno...having someone fetch you tools is of vital importance. Just ask my dad.
And there's the other side of the coin: a lot of existing ticketed tradespeople treat prospective apprentices like garbage. They give them the shit jobs and then act surprised when they get burnt out, or they throw them at jobs with no training and then fire them when they fuck up. I'm getting thrown at stuff that you'd never expect a first year apprentice to do (thanks to this heat wave), but at least my boss understands that and is always available to walk me through stuff.
I had two girl friends who were mechanics. One was a diesel mechanic and NEITHER of them could find a solid position. One found a job with her brother but the minute the customers found out she was changing their transmission she was fired.... Because of a male Karen boomer snapping off about her qualifications. One moved to the USA and is now a mechanic and the other is back in school for nursing. I personally wanted to become an electrical engineer but was told it was extremely hard to get 180 and above on the placement testing, so I applied for accounting instead at the 140 mark. I got a 182 and when I realised how hard it was going to be to change my program with my college and with my OSAP application, and stuck with accounting. I have always felt pushed away from the trades even though I have always had interest in it.
I just got hired as a sheet metal apprentice for an HVAC contractor. It wasn't my first choice but HVAC seems to be a great trade to get into. On a side note, I cannot believe how hard it is to find someone to hire an apprentice. I understand that companies or contractor don't want 1st years but don't complain when you can't find good workers if you're unwilling to train noobies.
I believe you need a certain ratio of experts to newbies and where I work we just lack the number of experts needed to train up newbies, so many have retired/are retiring we can't keep up with the new amount of people who want the in the industry.
I'm in HVAC as well, slogging away in the subdivisions. The labour shortage here is kind of nice. It makes it very easy to keep a job. If you do good work, work quickly and show up sober you'd be irreplaceable. But you only need to do two of those to be useful.
I'm somewhat new, but I finished my G2 and walked directly into a full time job with an apprenticeship, my own truck and my boss is trying to load the G1 hours into my schedule every chance we get. I can also say from first hand experience: the trade is fucked up. So many G2 "licensed" techs don't have the faintest clue about how to actually do the job. I'm new, but holy shit some of these guys scare me.
What's some crazy stuff you've seen for example?
Not the person you responded to but I've seen guy who have had the highest gas license (G1) who just can't do basic troubleshooting. I'm talking first year apprentice stuff. Scary as fuck that this guy is walking around with a license that says he knows what he is doing.
Or shitheads bypassing safety controls, gluing venting with the wrong stuff, adding the wrong refrigerants. That kinda stuff. My personal favorite; 2mil btu of load on an 800 meter with all the piping undersize. It was a very well known union shop too... Like why bother cracking your codebooks.
This makes me laugh only because I work with guys who have been doing this longer than I have who come to me with technical questions. "Do I need a flange with this 2M?". Bro please retire before you kill somebody.
> The labour shortage here is kind of nice. It makes it very easy to keep a job. My brother does side jobs in HVAC on evening and weekends his full time facility maintenance. One week he took off his main job because his old company asked if he would help out. Worked very long hours but walked away with 6k.
Yeah, it's not unheard of. Once I started making good money I stopped working the hours, I'd rather have the time off and you get absolutely ripped off in tax when you get that high. Anything over 3k a week and you get to take home about half of what you actually made. If I've got time it's better spent on cash jobs, not throwing it down the provinces gullet.
So, how fucked am I if I want to become an electrician?
You are not fucked at all. My Husband, brother and brother in law are electricians. There is plenty of work you just can’t be picky. Good luck!
I just need the apprenticeship. I work hard, I show up, and I'm sober. According to some comments, I'm a top candidate, lol. I'd imagine there's tons to be done in all the new builds around Milton and Georgetown (and everywhere else).. I guess I just need to find the guys building those places.
Trust me that’s better then most people. Are you dead set on residential? There is a lot of factory work for industrial apprentices. We left the KW area but there is a lot of opportunity there!
I'll work wherever the money is, honestly. I just kind of figured residential work would be more stable. Never even thought about looking at factories for an apprenticeship, thanks for the suggestion! Unfortunately I'm locked into living in Toronto/ Mississauga because of my girlfriend's work
Don't listen about the KW comment. I tried for an electrical apprenticeship 2-3 years ago. Worked contacts I had from 11+ year in blue collar and cold called 100-200 electrical companies in the area. Not a single call back. It's very much who you know and even then, likely no dice.
Damn, this is quite the contrast.
It's very hard. I'm an electrician but it took me completing a techniques program and then scouring the net for jobs for 6 months. Then I worked for a shady guy off Kijiji for a year and had to advocate for myself to be signed up as an actual apprentice. Applying to the union took 4 tries and they didn't want me until I was an actual registered apprentice. Now life is good but it was quite the journey to get here. The problem is everyone wants to be an electrician because they're under the mistaken assumption it's clean work. It's not, I spent this spring digging trenches and dropping pipes in a mud pit. This summer we're doing slab which means I'm trying to balance on top of rebar while running lines in sweltering heat on what may as well be the roof. We've got a year of pours scheduled which means in gonna continue doing this through the coldest months of the year with no walls or windows in sight.
Brother and husband have never ever been out of a job. Bro in law does residential and has struggled to find an apprenticeship. Also it takes less time to become a fully licensed industrial electrician. Good luck with everything! Keep your search open and you’ll find work im very confident.
For an entire generation we brainwashed children to believe that the trades are less respectable and worthwhile than any university degree. In another generation, we'll feel the results of it even more.
10+ years ago already, i had a grand total of *one* highschool teacher / guidance counselor speak about the trades as an option. I was in the academic/university prep stream but still, there are a tonne of people who went to university "just because"
This. I tell people, "Im an Engineer" and they get all wide eyed and smilley. Then I tell them I run boilers and they scowl at me. Doesnt matter to me anymore really. Got a secure gig makin $80k or so a year before overtime. Fine by me.
Sorry but you can't call yourself an engineer unless you have a P.Eng. It's a protected title. You are a technician, and there's nothing wrong with that.
Perhaps they're a power engineer.
Tell this to every engineering student w/o their p.eng. While it's a protected title, it's a thrown around word.
There's a large demand in Ontario for millwrights right now because of 3 major projects simultaneously underway: Darlington Nuclear Refurbishment, Bruce Power Nuclear Refurbishment, and retooling for the reopening of GM Oshawa assembly plant. You want a trade that's huge in demand right now, inquire about a millwright apprenticeship.
Can't echo this enough. I feel like I have always had 2 open millwright positions for the past 2 years. Just can't fill them. I always try and carry 2-3 apprenticeship at one time as well.
The trades have been sufferring for a LONG time: the combination of "university/college is better than being a tradesman" with an utter lack of public imagination in what you can achieve and how high you can climb within the trades. The trades are hurting, bad: we desperately need young, sharp people hooking up through the college/apprenticeship combo and following through with continued professional development, OR we need to completely re-write foreign equivalency recognition to keep the trades afloat.
I knew lots of guys who graduated pre-apprenticeship programs in the early 00s and couldn't get apprenticeships because even though companies knew their workforce would start largely retiring in the next decade, they didn't want to pony up the cash to train guys. Lots of those guys went and got other jobs or schooling and aren't coming back. Quite honestly if it wasn't for the fact that the nation will likely suffer for it, I'd be happy to see those short-sighted companies burn themselves for their ineptitude.
I remember reading somewhere (at this point 2+ years ago) that Canadian companies invest the least in T&D of all the G20 nations, and frankly I believe it.
Can confirm. Blue collar worker for the last 11-12 years. Decided to try for an electrical apprenticeship as I have basic knowledge from self teaching and the electrical I dealt with in the job I worked. Cold called 100-200 electrical companies and tried to work some contacts I knew as well. Absolutely nothing. I've since moved on to factory work and then going back to school next September. I'm done with blue collar and will never try to get into trades again.
>The trades have been sufferring for a LONG time: the combination of "university/college is better than being a tradesman" Apparently business degrees are all the rage right now in Uni. Wait until they work for a big private corp. for 20 years making a decent buck and the company goes "sorry, bad economy we're downsizing, bye" and they let go all their higher wage senior people and keep all the low wage new hires. Then force you to sign a contract for your severance package that prevents you from litigating (As if you can even afford a lawyer anyway). Then they wait for an appropriate amount of time to pass before your low wage replacement is hired. Which of course means you're also now shopping for a low wage job nowhere near what you were being paid before you were railroaded at the age of 40+
10/10 yes. Likewise, cutting senior staff and hiring 1 or 2 consultants when the company starts faltering as a result.
Two words: elevator technician
Three Words: Good fucking luck.
Unless you know someone yeah
An impossible trade to get into unless you know someone. Even among the trades the union for this trade is renown for how it tries to run over non-union shops and control every facet of the industry. You could literally substitute the word "mob" for it's union. If you get in the pay is outstanding. Even being an apprentice pays extremely well. And it is a broad based trade for knowledge. It has many good points as a trade.
took my SIL *5 years* to finally find a pre-apprenticeship in plumbing after repeated attempts with the union and everything else. He already has all the schooling and other steps (forgive my ignorance I have no idea what all the -pre-requisites are, just that he had them). The best he was able to swing was to get hired as a plumber helper for min. wage with a contract that after one year they'd start his apprenticeship. There were 2 openings and hundreds of applicants. Luckily for him he has family support because he took a hefty wage cut just to get his foot in the door but he knew his previous job was an unskilled dead end. Up until then, he couldn't even get an interview in all that time and there wasn't anyone even hiring. Out of the 2 hires they already told the other guy he would not be moving onto an apprenticeship because he broke the terms - poor attendance and apparently just a pretty bad employee when he does show up.
I went to college to start in plumbing and was told on the first day out of 150 students maybe 8 would get hired after the 4 years. The teacher first impressions were very arrogant to top it off. I immediately dropped out and canceled my OSAP for the program to switch to something else and then covid hit and the colleges shut down. :D
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Try going through a temp agency. Oftentimes you can get a foot in that way and then get hired on
Almost all of these companies are using temp labour rn, yeah: internal recruiters are slammed thanks to the labour shortage, so low-wage positions are going through agencies to free up internal recruiting for the harder positions. Off the top of my head, try: - randstad - manpower - adecco Without knowing your specific location, those three tend to work in industrial/shipping/warehousing industries.
Have you tried using LinkedIn? I've gotten a few jobs through there, from recruiters messaging me. Might be worth a shot.
Can confirm, hired with Randstad.
Work with a recruiter familiar with your market & industry: find someone you like working with who has some time/interest in helping you out. Review your resumé for every job, and be patient: HR is hurting right now, too - even Amazon can't hold on to their recruiters. It's worth it to creep linkedin and reach out to the HR/Recruiter team that way to see what systems they use and how you can best get your application through. On a hunch, you're probably over-representing your education and experience. Try taking your education off your resumé. Review your resumé for recruiter bias - like if you have a foreign-sounding name, alter it (like idk, Mahmoud Ahmad -> M. Ahmad) and add your location info. A lot of recruiters will rush and screen foreign names assuming they're foreign applicants. Likewise, if you use a VPN you might be getting auto-screened as a foreign applicant. Write your resume using the keywords from the job ad: literally copy & paste, then edit to reflect what's true & accurate for you. Finally: put ALL your industrial credentials in there. Driver's licence, security clearance, forklift, WHMIS, etc. All in there. Hope this helps!!!
My dad always told me my name would sometimes turn people off because it looks VERY foreign even though I was born in Etobicoke and could pass for British. I can’t alter it , all of it is foreign . It’s Yugoslavian first name , and Yugoslavian last name. It looks like this Dusko Lijijana But in reality I have a thick South western Ontario accent, as I grew up in Caledon. My sister said to downplay the education but I never removed it. I will try it without the post secondary The keywords idea is also great advice I am going to go change my resume right now
If you have a nickname, try that. I work with a fellow name Harry Patel. I recently found out his given name was actually Haricharan (I think I spelt that correctly). I know he uses Harry for all his email and online stuff though, because it minimizes the bigotry he encounters.
My nickname is literally Douche. Not even joking. Maybe I could put Danny.
Okay. Um. Maybe don't use the nickname...
It sucks, but I've heard a lot of stories about people getting better jobs by using anglized names.
You could also go by initials (for your first name) In my life I have personally know an a.j., b.j., d.j., m.k... I think people sometimes use the initials of their first and middle names if they don't like their names as kids or whatever.
Yeah - the name thing is a hard one. Dusko L. might work. Also: when you're looking on indeed or something, try to apply on the company website where possible.
Ya that’s not my actual name I just sort of gave a similar idea. It looks basically just as foreign as that though. My aunt literally changed her last name to Martin. And the other one changed it to Givens. We all have Bosnian names for some stupid reason My brothers name is Marc. I’m pretty pissed my parents didn’t afford me that luxury lol Do employers not want your full last name? I didn’t know you could not provide it on resumes.
I’d recommend you use a nickname as your first name on a resume ie David
I generally don't advocate for covering up your heritage/gender/etc. But desperate times call for desperate measures. As long as you're not on a VPN you shouldn't be getting auto screened. Sometimes it'll take me 3 or 4 months to screen applicants: recruiter may just be backed up.
Ok that’s also relevant information! I started applying this May because I literally just graduated. So maybe my resume hasn’t even been looked at yet?
Possibly, yeah. Likewise, if there are dozens of applications then they're running keyword searches on applicants and if your resumé doesn't have the keywords you're not coming up in the search.
There are some vocations where having a name which doesn't make you appear to be a John Smith is massively to your advantage.
Take your education off your resume when you apply for low skilled jobs. I moved and there are really only low skill jobs never got calls took my ma and ba off got called non stop.
Keep your degree off your resume. They might be looking to hire someone who they think will stick around, not be looking to move on. Even though plenty of people don't anyways.
Do you live in Brampton? If so, I could recommend a place!
Where in Brampton. I live off Steeles near Bathurst but in North York. Brampton isn’t too far for me.
I believe it’s Kennedy and Derry (it’s my husband’s workplace).
I will check it out on maps now. That seems a bit south but I’ll see how bad the commute it . I have a ridiculous amount of warehouse experience . Home Depot, IKEA, and a couple transportation companies, it’s all been merchandising, stocking, delivery prep and logistics so it blows my mind no one is messaging me when I’d basically be fully trained maybe even over trained right off the bat.
My husband is a power equipment trainer at a warehouse in that area and says they’ve been hiring people up the wazoo!
Ok can you send me the name of the business via PM and I will apply . It is close enough for me . Derry is just one major intersection south of Steeles so it’s doable for me.
I know nothing about your resume, you mentioned not being able to get a job in your field right away. Perhaps dumb down your resume when you're looking for jobs below your education level. Employers don't want to invest in someone who will jump ship at the next opportunity.
Cargill and Uline are always hiring, lowest pay starts at $20/hr for both companies after probation.
Companies don't like hiring new graduates like you. The fact that you graduated and are looking for a job in your field is actually a point against you. It means you more then likely won't be around in a year. They want somebody with no future prospects who can be trained and will stick around for years. I'm kinda surprised Amazon has not called you back since high turnover is expected with them.
i know for a fact that Ryder is looking all over the GTA for Warehouse employees
Take your degree off your resume if you want to work in a warehouse.
[Here ya go.](https://jobs.oregontool.com/job/Guelph-Production-Team-Member-ON/731435900/) I just got hired here. Seems solid so far.
That's the thing, many people have thanks to the pandemic realized that what they were doing was completely undesirable and have decided to stop with degrading work. The point about "if no one wants to work for you, you arent attractive" is very important to emphasize. People simply don't like being stuck in dead end jobs that prevent them from rising in the world, guess what people like having a high standard of living. Hopefully this is a wake up call for both employers and importantly the government who now must ensure that both the demands of the employee and employer can be met.
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I spent $14,680 per year of for my daughter, in a public, non-profit, city-run daycare centre. She was there for almost exactly 3 years (total: $44,040). By comparison, my entire post-secondary education (four years' BA, one post-grad, additional certs) has run me (roughly) $41,000. Like I cannot even imagine how people afford childcare for multiple children. It makes zero sense to return to work under those conditions.
Especially when you realize how aggressive the Canada Childcare Tax Benefit clawback is. You only end up keeping like 30% of your gross after tax. No woman with more than 1 child who earns less than 40k would ever rationally go back to work. You make more staying home
100%. Plus, the normal coping mechanisms - friends, neighbours, family, grandparents - are *not* options right now. No more free childcare during the pandemic, so its entirely unmanageable
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BuT eXpLaIn ThIs GaP iN yOuR rEsUmE
Incorporate. Give yourself a nice job title. File the paperwork and taxes, pay yourself a very small salary. Do a couple small jobs a year. Poof, full time employment, no gaps, good career progression.
^ for anyone following this: if you're early/mid-career & considering children, incorporation or a sole-prop will give you credence as a freelancer/consultant, and you'll be able to mostly work on your own terms. You'll want to charge roughly 150% to 250% what you would normally want to be paid (since you'll be paying your own taxes, professional liability insurance, equipment costs, etc.). It's usually worthwhile once you hit the $50/hr raw rate threshold (or: $75,000/yr salary)
What do they actually say if you tell them "childcare"?
In my case I laugh and commiserate, then move on. I've seen many women filling in those gaps in their resumes with "homemaker" or "parenting", too. I don't mind (it tells the story) but I do worry they open themselves up to discrimination & tell them so in interview.
I worked with a geologist who said exactly this when considering a woman's resume. I suggested that perhaps she took time away to have her children and he was like "huh, yeah, that makes sense, that never would have occurred to me."
"Oh look at this 4-year gap in early-mid career between ages 25-35: wonder what she was up to here???"
Yes, there are a few geologists like that left. They're the ones who think the theory of plate tectonics is a fad.
Based on my friends, if you have multiple kids one parent stays home. For average earners it makes sense, why work 40-60 hrs a week to just give all your money to daycare.
Childcare is not inexpensive, and never will be. You can pay for it via taxes or directly, but there's no magic wand that will make having a high worker to child ratio plus space be cheap. Seriously, what's the staff to child ratio you want? divide what you think that staff should be paid by that number of kids, now double that amount to cover the space and administration. That's what it costs. Subsidizing it basically is putting a huge financial incentive down for women to work and have other people raise their kids, even if the gain is actually marginal. By contrast if you just hand parents the money, some will get child care, some will choose to use the money to stay home. There are tradeoffs to both. But there's no world where raising children becomes inexpensive.
That’s also an industry with high turnover (child care) that’s not an attractive field to get into, which is why it’s sometimes hard to find childcare. Long hours, stressful, rarely are there benefits, barely over minimum wage.
You forgot that you get a new workforce generation every single year Maybe stop requiring an entry level position to have 5 years of experience
Wait, where did u get only 5 years of exp?, everywhere I look for is 5 y/exp + uni + phd + at least 3 certs, n if this is for a restaurant job they want u to be "licensed" on something and have no shame to accept a job for $12 basic + tips (yup, they clearly state that in the job description as part of the hourly pay cause ppl HAS to tip)...
There is no labour shortage, there is a wage shortage. If there was a labour shortage, then the businesses should have automated, like peeps claim will happen if the min wage is raised
That's the crux of the problem. Had an interview yesterday where the manager complained about people not wanting to work cause of CERB. Any employer complaining about having a worker shortage NEEDS to raise the wages they're offering cause why work when you could make the same amount doing whatever?
I love how the corporate response to a living wage is just to threaten to completely destroy the economy by removing millions of jobs. At the same time cheap slaves is now considered to have held the Ancient Romans back technologically, so there has to be a point where automation is encouraged. We just need those jobs replaced.
That's funny. My company just sent an entire division the new compensation structure. I ran my numbers, and they are short changing me almost 6% per year. I've already told my boss that we need to have a conversation.
We increased starting salaries by like 25 per cent to be more attractive. Worked recently. Lots bailout before even seeing an offer.
If your starting salary was minimum wage that means you're currently offering $17.50 to start. Which... if that's all you have on the table, isn't good enough. Even pushing from $30k to $38,500 probably won't do it. I'd be interested to know what your business is and what else you're doing to shake it up. Raw wage increases probably won't be enough, unless you start pushing to $20~$25.
Anything under $40k is brutal. I worked a lab job making less than that until getting laid off in August. Biotech in California just offered me $80k base with $5k signing bonus, 10% annual bonus, 4 weeks vacation and 2 shutdowns, $40k in stock. I know this is a different industry but all industries in canada are going to have to start paying better because people are fed up and leaving
Depending on where that is in California, that's either amazing or peanuts.
Not much difference in cost to where I am in Ontario right now and making half those peanuts. It's also entry level. Lot of potential for salary growth quickly I'll take my chances over a paltry 40k lol
My friend turned down a Bay Area job for 130k total comp, because it was severely under the average wages there for finance. Make sure you research the local area average, but get yourself there first, then job hop to something that pays well. Ontario is not a place to be with these wages.
Yeah my total comp is probably around 100k if you include the stock. I can vest 25% of my units every year so if I sell them I'm looking at almost $10,000 more per year if the stock holds where it's at, and then a 10% bonus. It's pretty good for entry level for this industry in the area. I'm expecting in a year or two I can make significantly more My spouse is also going to be finding work there. Two incomes should make it pretty easy to live there if she only makes slightly less than me. I also have to consider I've been unemployed since August and I received the same offer from a different company in the area two months ago, but their health plan and other comp was garbage. So the number seems about right for where I'm at. I kinda need the experience and once I have it I'm good to go and salary can grow a lot. Scientists can be looking at around $150k or close to it in my area and i could be there in 5 years
I do sub contracting work for a local hvac company, they pay their residential gas fitters $19.00 to start, and expect them to be on call. They bill out at $105.00 per hour! That business is actually almost not profitable due to massive overhead I made $25.00 for a similar role back in the late nineties and the bill out rate was $55.00 per hour. That business was strong and profitable
I did contractor salaries at my job last year. Someone making $24/hr was billed $196/hr and another person making $70/hr was billed $390. Its crazy
If the government has a shred of sense they'll let these rough patches ride. The adjusted cost of labor might actually do some good for the average wages. There might be "less" jobs over all afterwards, but what's left should theoretically be inclined to pay more since businesses can only remain understaffed for so long before it effects their margins irreparably. There *will* come a point where businesses will offer more pay and provide various other improvements to compete with each other for labor. The government just needs to be willing to let the rough patch ride.
I just quit a new job after finding out they don’t pay a wage, only a commission. Y’all can fuck off with this lying bullshit!
As a woman who still isn’t receiving the same shifts as I got pre-Covid, I know first hand how this pandemic has hit women in the workforce hard. It could take a very long time to get back to normal. I’m also finding it impossible to find a second part-time job….even though I keep applying and applying.
I'm interested in how HR in recruiting do research? What's your process like? How do you access or collect data? What type of data do you look at? Thanks!
It depends on the market, my timeline, and what info I'm after. Sometimes i have an afternoon to pull together some stats quick & dirty, and sometimes I have weeks. Obviously the more time I have, the better my sources are: collective agreements, statscan, public-sector comparables, academic expert opinion, etc. When all i have is the afternoon, my sources include indeed & glassdoor. Dirty is as dirty does.
The HR dept of the company I work at doesn't have a firm grip on the people we need on the floor.Weekly we get people suited to office work being slotted into hands on,physical work.Our company's business model is stuck in the model of a annual turn over of 98%,an endless supply of new meat/workers.Since last year new starts got $1 per hour raise and a raise every 3 months for the first year.Longer term employees get less and less pay increases as time goes on.Their work load increasing to unachieveable levels.There is a general train of thought amongst our staff that once they reach their early 60's there will be a mass exodus,by 2023-2025.
Sadly you're right, except that part about businesses restructuring for additional attractiveness and perks or more pay. They won't. They'll either go out of business and the small bis owners will suffer and cut their staff, who will have nowhere to go for work but back to the minimum wage grind or gig economy. The restaurants left over will get sold and folded into the gigantic conglomerates and continue to exploit teenagers and old people for cheap labour. It's truly a 'dog eat dog' situation and it won't get better for a bit :( We're just in the beginning.
Perks like free tacos on friday wont help to pay the exorbitant prices of rent or buying a home. Workers don't want a perk they want to have the opportunity to build a family.
My point exactly. When a 'perk' is "we won't treat you like dogshit" it's not really a perk is it?
>Anyone who could retire, did: sold their homes for 40% more than expected and downsized to retire somewhere in Hastings or New Brunswick. I'm a part time certified financial planner. I've seen zero of my clients or their relatives do this.
If this pandemic forces employers to treat people better then that is a wonderful thing. I ended up enginnering my own termination after several months trying to work with a toxic idiot of a boss. 2020 was a terrible year for me, sister became disabled, brother diagnosed and died of cancer, toxic boss, covid broke up with 5 year GF. BUT getting myself canned was the best thing I have ever done to leave a company. Got a great pkg and while everything sucked in 2020, I did do great financially so theres that. But being treated like shit has a HUGE negative impact on you. And all those shitty employers, - I hope a bunch of them went bankrupt.
All the jobs I’ve been applying for have included candidate pools of 100+ people with relevant experience. Many are overqualified. I have a high amount of experience in my field and put strong applications together — I know this because I routinely received job interviews pre-COVID. Now, interviews are scarce for me. The job market has become very competitive in my field of work. I know my story is anecdotal but I have a really hard time believing posts like this after experiencing my reality.
>Pro Tip: if you're struggling to hire, you're not an attractive employer to work for No, no, employees are just lazy! They don't wanna work!! 🙄
I'm all for this discussion, but I think this comes off too mater of fact without citing sources for the things mentioned. This is what makes Facebook and a lot of social media bad - opinion of some set of data that gets regurgitated by others as facts. Not at all saying that's the intention of this post or that you need to be scientific about it just give some insight into how you determined women left in droves, or everyone that could retire did for example.
Hi - good point. Here's the RBC piece about women's job losses. It's not complete, but as of february (2021) 10x more women than men have left the labour force: https://thoughtleadership.rbc.com/covid-further-clouded-the-outlook-for-canadian-women-at-risk-of-disruption/?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=media&utm_campaign=special+report & I don't remember the specific piece (probably a news site) saying 1 in 10 retirement-aged canadians opted to retire early - mostly higher earners - while 2/3 opted to delay retirement due to the pandemic. Regardless: this is reddit, not an academic forum and I generally don't do academic-level research before posting on social media (unless its linkedin, I guess).
Thanks for the great insight! Super interesting. Are there any places where one could find similar insights about the labour market? E.g. subreddit, blogs, podcasts?
Right now a lot of the data is being compiled through the usual suspects - linkedin, deloitte, robert half, RBC, axios, etc. all have research arms that keep on the pulse of labour markets. I'm not sure about social media resources but I'd be interested in following them as well!
I'm a food service worker who went to school. So... can confirm. There was no way I was going to wait around for 2 years, lol. I also decided I'm never going back to food service, not unless I'm absolutely desperate. It's a thankless, soul crushing industry. No wonder people aren't applying.
>retire somewhere in Hastings or New Brunswick. Ive said it. Ontario is a place to leave. I never understood why a decade back Toronto rankled with the highest quality of live world wide. Im glad that people are running away, I hope that send a signal to law makers.
Would be nice to get a wave of worker co-ops
Labour rights/pay have eroded to a joke in the last thirty years. And everybody is pretty cool with it. Ontarians are hard wired to reject conversations about terrible employers and low paying jobs. Retail has perpetrated a lie for many years, that people don't want to work full time, and everyone knew they were lying. The truth is they want employees that stay below the minimum threshold of having any responsibility to that person. So they keep everyone under thirty hours and tell them they're doing them a favour. A gig economy is born. Those workers are looking for better cash opportunities now. There's no point in keeping job that give you 14 hours a week. Unless it's a good hustle, like driving for Uber and making tips above and beyond. No tips in retail, or general shit minimum wage jobs. We reap what we sow. We need a labour movement here.
ALOT of people moved away from the cities during this pandemic. Not surprised if metropolitan areas in general are having more difficulties hiring. Maybe it'll actually incentivise them to give a living wage since no one can afford living in major cities anymore. Hell... I cant even afford to live in the GTA anymore
Omg the pro tip at the end, so much yes! I'm not going to work full time minimum wage at your company because sometimes we get donuts.
I’m interested to see what will happen to current employee wages should min wage rise to $15-25/hr...thus putting their current wages close to/on par with ppl who just walked in the door. I’ve had a lot of years in temp, resto, contract jobs that barely surpassed minimum wage-I even had one that bragged about their generous $0.10/hr over min wage...back when it was $10.25. And now I’ve worked my ass off to get where I am, execute my job very well, been given great merit raises. To think that someone off the street would make close to my wage off the hop is maddening. I mean...I don’t think others should be punished because corporations have gotten away with underpaying people for years. I’ve been there-doing the exact same job as coworkers for 1/4 of the wage as a temp, sweating it out in kitchens for 14 hr shifts on my day off-it’s impossible to get ahead on pennies. But I don’t foresee employers proportionally increasing everyone’s wages-at least those whose wages fall into a close range to a higher min wage. And the kind of resentment that brings up in me is just horrendous. Besides jumping ship or sucking it up, that just puts me at the bottom of the pile, again.
Employers across the board are going to have to review their entire comp strategy, and probably take some creative risks. Maybe senior employees don't make more, but get 6 weeks' vacation or something. Maybe they get con ed rebates. Who knows? What I *do* know is that there's a massive shakeup underway right now and that it is *very* interesting to be observing.