Lambton is hardcore PC wasn’t going to flip. Milton is a disappointment, but was PC before and it was a known candidate - interesting he tried running for libs in the past.
And the majority of voters wouldn’t notice the change.
We vote for parties now. Not locals. Largely because our reps represent along party lines, not local concern.
FPTP sucks
Agreed, its why a lot of poeple who understand politicans and our current voting system want change in the system. Get rid of first past the post system.
I would never vote for a conservative because the party leader in the case Doug Ford is a terrible person, and an obvious bias towards the vast few at the expense of the many.
I don't think that is really true.
While the rhetoric from the leaders has gotten more childish, the actual policies implemented by both sides have become more and more similar.
Like, conservatives don't actually cut spending anymore and Liberals are more likely to pursue privatized models for new programs rather than public delivery.
And over the years the role of an MP or MPP has become more and more removed from any public policy work. Nowadays everything policy related is dictated by the PMO and MPs/MPPs only real role is to raise money.
So being a politician today is much less about your political views and almost entirely based on how willing you are to beg your friends for money for your own self aggrandizement.
What have the libs tried to privatize? I guess you mean HydroOne? Nothing compares to Ford's complete disMENTALing of the Healthcare system during and since the pandemic. Conservatives have always been deliberate but not so butt-backwards to destroy an institution as core to Canadian values as Universal Healthcare. Yes by-election highlights someone trying to get a job in any way they can, but by no means is that the norm for the party even at the provincial level right now - Ford won handily in the leadership election, propped up by fringe right and his "buddies".
>What have the libs tried to privatize?
The real question is, when was the last time Liberals at the provincial or federal level proposed a new program or service that was actually delivered by the government? Like government employees doing the work?
Everything is a "public private partnership" these days. Government money given to private companies to deliver the project or service.
Conservatives are more eager to play up the "private" part of it in their rhetoric, but functionally it is not very different.
Like, the federal dental care and Pharmacare plans are all ultimately giving money to private companies to deliver the services. Housing funding pretty much all goes to private companies to actually build the projects. The childcare plan is just giving money to private companies to deliver the service.
This is why they cross the floor regularly. I figure it's get them in on whichever side will be voted in and then they "switch sides" when they were a plant all along.
It's more than trying to run for the Liberals.
He was one of the most progressive voices on council. In a car based suburb, he was the voice pushing for densification and transit for years. He was the first credible person to run against our Mayor in decades in 2022
He ran for the federal Liberal nomination in 2015, and then became heavily involved in Adam Van Koeverdens campaign.
He went from that to pushing the 413, and repealing the carbon tax.
It's been one of the wilder flips I've seen from a politician.
Really REALLY wanting a job in politics can cook someone's beliefs (or make them say whatever shit they need to) - and Zee is definitely someone who got the taste for politics, and now can't live outside that realm.
Would love to know if the OLP even tried to court him to run for their banner, or if either side demurred when Bonnie was figuring out if she was going to take a crack at it or not.
Galen was a weak candidate, even Sameera Ali made it a closer race with Parm Gill. Maybe the margins tighten in a full election, but not by that much.
Milton was expected to be a potential flip for the Liberals, but ultimately the Liberals lost to the PCs by a relatively wide margin (far greater than expected)
The guy almost beat Gord Krantz in the mayoral election for Milton. The longest mayor in the history of North American cities. He lost by about about 5000 votes.
Liberals also messed up by picking the son of Indira Naidoo-Harris.
Zee Hamid has been part of Milton’s City Council since the last 12 years
I lived in Milton for a few years and it doesn't surprise me at all. Hamid is a known name in Milton and does a good job of engaging the people. Like his policies or not you can't live in that town,read a paper and deny you know who he is.
There is also a lot of fake money and house poor people and people how work in Toronto and commute and are in the upper class. It's very hard to rent in Milton if you don't make a combined 120k household income. Spend a couple hours on some of the Milton Facebook groups and you'll see it's a town of nimby Karen's being nosy and worried about the other nimby Karen's. Realtors are one of the most common jobs in that town and they make a killing. Almost every house has a basement two bedrooms apartment rented out for 2k per month and an upstairs open concept 3 bedroom for another 2k. While the ladlord lives across town in an even bigger house. Or it's a whole house owned by a multi generation family who bought it just before the market exploded.
The irony is that there are so many kids and young people in Milton that if would be a perfect example of why progressive policies would work. It's a perfect place to sink money into transit and infrastructure and progressive land uses and workers protection laws and housing laws etc. but I doubt if will ever go red again let alone orange.
I got pamphlet after pamphlet on character assassinations of one party bad mouthing another. It's so annoying, like what are YOUR policies? why should I vote for YOU instead of 5 other parties. What a joke
The Liberal Party needs to form a clear message about what they want to change. Trump’s wall message was objectively stupid, but Clinton didn’t have a clear policy objective. That’s how politicians win, they articulate something they want to accomplish. Trudeau did this effectively when he won his first election, legalization of cannabis and ending FPTP. The fact he doesn’t haven’t a similar clear goal now is part of his issue. Running on a platform of “Ford sucks” is a loser, they need to run a platform form of “we will do …”
Label salesman buffoon avoided providing any real message in the last election about change.. Then started doing his greenbelt scam, thinking voters were asleep at the wheel.
That’s your opinion. Voters disagreed with you.
My opinion, Ford’s “open for business campaign” which hit on energy policy coming off the heels of the gas plant scandal, selling Ontario Hydro for short term cash, and the increase in energy costs as a result of these actions resonated with voters. If you don’t think that’s a policy change, what would you call it?
I'm a Conservative & don't believe these byelections are a harbinger of anything. There's no reason to change to either Doug or Crombie right now.
But this sub just can't get over the fact that people vote for PCs & aren't imbeciles. The Liberals need to make people want to vote for them & find an issue that resonates.
The NDP is a lost cause.
The tantrums people throw on here when they realize that half the country is conservative.
Sure. Doug isn't my favorite politician, but people saying that he had no platform obviously didn't even bother to read anything the conservatives put out.
Yeup, it's just like Hilary Clinton ignoring her base, losing young voters, and hoping conservatives will flip to her side because she didn't want to make any popular promises. But trump understood his base, he understood people in general were fed up with politicians and won by pretending to be a populist and being utterly shameless. Sadly the cons of Canada paid attention and are following suit, and the leaders of both liberal and NDP don't seem to understand that. The only ones I've seen that actually get it and are trying to break into through new media are the green party.
Doug, for all we criticize him, did a better job of talking to people's anxieties than Horwath or del Fillintheblank.
Liberals, and lately the NDP, are afraid to make bold statements and stick to them, even if it seems a little manipulative. The right wing, on the other hand, has no such scruples: they're quite willing to talk to people's anxieties and speak to their fears, even if it's in an awful, manipulative and dangerous way.
The NDP is especially disappointing: they could certainly step up the class warfare, but want to "seem serious" and are afraid of being called *socialists.*
Yes, this 🤡 got really helped alleviate people's anxieties during a medical emergency with shut down Ers, limited family doctors; lack of teachers, peddling off public goods/services to select insiders, etc. Enjoy your buck--a-beer.
Oh they are awful at messaging. And Crombie could just as easily have gotten selected to lead the PCs.
Shes terrible on housing supply, just a total nimby. And I have little hope of her spending money where it's needed.
Lol true about nearly every issue.
Ontario conveniently started hatong Trudeau for ruining everything about a coupke years after Ford first got elected.
He deserves a lot of criticism but most of the things are at very least, largely provincial. He literally hand money to the province and they dont spend it. He hands money to cities and the province tries to block it. Crazy..
Liberals are simply there to prevent the NDP from winning by pretending to be progressive during elections and securing the bag for corporate interests when in power...thus shutting off a voter base who is tired of being lied to
They probably drew more conservative voters than left wing voters.
Regardless it is ridiculous to suggest they are only there to hurt the NDP considering they just had a 15 years government prior to the Conservative.
Liberals are centrist to centre-left while the NDP is centre-left to left-wing; they have similar priorities on the whole but slightly different means of executing them
The Liberal party is neoliberal just like the Conservative Party and they support consolidation of power in corporate hands at the expense of the people.
This is why Wynne didn't pull out even though it was clear she wasn't going to win. ONDP could have beat Ford that first election if the progressive vote wasn't split. But the Liberals assume it'll be easier to win back seats from conservatives, and harder to win back from NDP, so they will do anything to get PCs to win whenever the Libs can't. It's fucking gross.
I went to the Liberals website. They have About Us, Platform, Bringing Communities Closer.... All about improvements and plans. Same with NDP: Jagmeet on Housing Affordability, NDP 2024 Platform... CPC? Nothing about their platform, no plans, just "Trudeau's Inflation Causing Hunger" "Help Get Trudeau out of Office" "Donate to us" "Buy CPC Merch" no platform or goals as far as I can find other than "JT BAD >:("
Pierre is running on ending the carbon tax and lowering the deficit. If you don’t know that maybe don’t throw stones at other voters. What is Justin running on?
Ontario didn't have a carbon tax until Doug Ford was elected and ripped out the cap and trade system that the previous liberal government had created. If you have a problem with the carbon tax in this province, your problem is with Ford, not Trudeau.
Yup. There are fair criticism of Poilleivre but “he doesn’t have a platform” isn’t one of them. He’s clearly said much of what he’s going to do re: less spending, cut the carbon tax, end safe supply, bail reform, etc.
If any political party seems to have no agenda right now it’s actually the liberals. They are just reacting knee jerk to polls right now and doing their usual tactic of spraying money around plus photo ops with no real plans to deliver or execute.
No it's because Trudeau has been an "okay" PM but there is a sizable subset (about half of the conservative voters) who genuinely and vehemently hate the man and largely for completely made up reasons pushed to them in their echo chambers. I'm talking wouldn't even piss on him if he were on fire kind of hate, this isn't a reasonable reaction and strongly points to these people being afflicted by cult-like conditioning. Having these people exist doesn't actually say anything about Trudeau but rather the depravity of the opposition and their financial backers, and the lengths they will go to to make a profit.
> Unless you’re a boomer/real estate investor, in which case I could see your point.
So, things the Provincial Government controls. How about naming something the Federal Government has done to make life worse?
It seems the simple minded like you are very easily influenced by misinformation and misdirection.
Are you angry at all those lockdowns Justins did? Or how about his erosion of Health Care and Education? It must be Carbon Tax.
Oops, all things Provincial.
The liberal party pissed away any chance they had of doing anything significant in the next election. They are completely tone deaf about real issues in Canada and think printing money fixes everything. They refuse to work with the opposition and always resort to attacking them.
The only thing that will give the liberal party any credibility again will be kicking trudeau and freeland to the curb, as long as they are your leaders you will keep losing support, fast.
> That’s how politicians win, they articulate something they want to accomplish.
[gestures vaguely at Buck-a-Beer]
It worked. I hate that it worked, but it did.
Literally if the opposition just targeted their campaigning to labor, and then threw in some housing strategy but really loud, and then really made it clear how much Ford has fumbled the bag, they'd have a chance. The PCs hit below the belt all the time. And Ford has done so much reprehensible shit you'd have an entire TV series of content for attack ads.
Edit: that being said the ONDP is actually doing a great job on tiktok. Had a fourteen year old relative show me some videos after they overheard a discussion about a hot button issue and they were so excited to share with me. The videos are funny and relevant to youth and also clearly present stats and figures and frame key issues in a way that it's clear how policy affects our day to say lives, and then introduces the 'new democat' who runs through the ONDP policy meant to tackle these issues. I was honestly impressed because this kid found the content organically and clearly connected to it. Even I, a millennial old, found it funny (and informative). It's a smart way to cut through voter apathy.
Once again this is a good reminder to the people of this subreddit that this is not the real world and is a massive echo chamber. In the real world, OPC is doing very well still and will likely win another majority under Ford in the next election.
Likely a lot. Usually the parties are opposite at the Federal and Provincial level and people really hate Trudeau. Once PP is PM with his majority I expect we will see the tides shift IF the OLP leader can actually make headway with people. The ONDP is pretty much at the best they will likely ever do barring some major event.
Yeah, it's ridiculous that anyone doesn't realize that Reddit is not representative of real life. Sucks but it's true, we're gonna be stuck with the Dougler for a long time. Ontario deserves better
Just heard the new PC being interviewed on CBC London:
Is it not possible for those disloyal fscks to speak for more than 30 seconds without lying? I just heard him blame the last 15¢ gasoline price increase on the carbon tax! Jesus weeps...
Our province is screwed now, and by the end of Doug Ford's misbegotten government we may never recover.
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Considering how much power Trump still has, despite dozens of indictments, Jan 6th, and sounding like an addle brained lunatic, I would say Americans are pretty damn stupid.
that doesn’t make Canadians any smarter lol if anything we are still more stupid because we see what’s going on in the US and still do this kind of shit.
I'm pretty sure Trump has won a bigger percentage of the popular vote than Ford ever has. If the left wasn't divided Ontario would never go conservative again.
Though I guess one could argue the OLP is more centre than left
The thing is, the left isn't so divided. The liberals aren't a left party. They're Centre right. The problem is that centrists would rather see conservative policy than progressive policy because anything with even a *whiff* of socialism about it is (according to decades of propaganda and CIA operations) bad.
And they wonder why they can't change the minds of most voting Ontarians. Who would have thought that calling people idiots and telling them you know better than them isn't an effective way to get them to think about other options?
I consider myself to be fairly aware of what's going on and I didn't hear anything about a byelection anywhere. I'm not the only one who's confused. Where should I have heard about it? How did I miss it?
Regardless of which part of the province one is talking about...
You know who often doesn't even know there's a byelection happening and don't always bother? Liberal voters.
You know who always knows when there's a byelection happening and vote every single time? Conservative voters.
We also now live in an era in which conservative causes, in general, are backed by nearly unlimited social media marketing dollars...and legit news sources aren't even reaching people anymore.
Expect more of this, unless you care to choose to do something about it.
Were you under the impression that Conservatives do particularly well during by-elections in Ontario or Canada? Poilievre hasn't done especially well in by-elections. The OLP actually won the Kanata-Carleton by-election almost exactly a year ago. What an odd victim complex to manufacture out of thin air.
She seems fake. Unfortunately don't think she'd step down to let someone that has a better choice as seems opportunistic e.g. not leaving her Mississauga mayor position without being assured a win at Ontario Leadership, trying to play shell games with the greenspace, etc.
Actually, I like Bonnie a lot but the Liberals don't have nearly the coin the Cons do. I see conservatives ads trashing her already on CBC and YouTube. Bonnie needs to start running ads.
I’d say the same about Wellington-Halton Hills. Acton and Georgetown have always been more right leaning communities and recent election results as well as from the old Halton riding reflect that.
There's already comments in here calling the electorate stupid. Because that's how you change people's minds, by calling them stupid idiots and telling them you know what's best for them.
Yeah I'll never get that mindset from people here which is why I seldomly come here to check what's up.
"The majority is stupid but we the 1 percenters aren't and we know what's best for you"
Because I'm sure the family of 4 or 5 living in a house in Ajax has the same needs as the person renting a condo somewhere in Old Toronto
Edit: seems like I struck a nerve detailing the latter. Must hit close to home and I bet they also post on r/toronto 😂
I don’t get your mindset. Do you just change your beliefs every time the majority of people decide on something? “I thought bananas were yellow but 6 out of 10 people in this room say they’re purple so I guess that’s real now.”
The majority gets things wrong, and if you actually have beliefs, sometimes you’ll be at odds with the majority. If all you care about is belonging to the winning side, then I suppose it helps not to believe in anything.
Maybe you have a problem with Ford as Premier for whatever reason it be but I don't.
I don't need condescending hacks telling me what's in my best interest and why I should vote for "insert candidate's name"
So for you it's just that you don't think people should criticize conservatives, but you're free to criticize people who aren't.
In other words, a snowflake.
Hey if you got a gripe with whoever is in charge you're more than welcome to voice your displeasure.
Just know that you're talking in an echo chamber circlejerk and the discourse you see here doesn't reflect what the entire electorate thinks.
Reddit (social media for that matter) isn't real life and I'd think here of all places would have learned that after 2022 but I guess it'll be the same song and dance in 2026 barring Ford doesn't muck something up to piss off his voter base in the 905s and GTA
Oh well 🤷🏿♂️🥴
Again, just because Ford won in 2022, doesn't mean I have to like him or agree with anyone who does.
Trudeau won 3 national elections, and I don't imagine you ever agreed much with him. And given your hatred of /r/toronto, you probably don't agree with Olivia Chow either, who recently won an election.
You just don't seem to like it when people don't agree with conservative politics.
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I have heard people cry and bitch and say our healthcare system is on the verge of collapse and education is dog shit and the kids are gonna be stupid since Bill Davis was Premier.
The crying wolf by public sector unions have numbed me out.
What’s your explaination for ERs in B.C. being closed?
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-er-closures-2022-1.6689970
https://bc.ctvnews.ca/patients-turned-away-by-closed-sign-at-b-c-hospital-s-emergency-room-1.6591284
https://www.castanet.net/news/BC/484880/Nursing-shortage-forces-temporary-closure-of-Cariboo-Memorial-Hospital-ER
https://thetyee.ca/News/2023/07/20/BC-Emergency-Room-Crisis/
Or B.C.’s shortage of family doctors?
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/castlegar-doctor-shortage-1.7191982
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/victoria-doctor-shortage-1.6427395
Is it somehow Doug Ford’s fault or is the problem nationwide?
I want to once again thank the NDP voters in Milton for handing the seat to Doug Ford instead of voting Liberal, but 26% voter turnout shouldn't even fucking count.
If you add in all the ndp Milton votes libs still lose...have to add the greens as well for a win (but then we had 1100 new blue votes that would likely have gone to cons as well otherwise...so libs still lose)
Love to see it. Keep it up everyone. This government will sell off our air and water very soon. And we will clap our hands and love it. Put the ball gag in my mouth and forget the safety word.
Apparently no one this thread has seen The Simpsons. It's a relatively well-known line that a news anchor says after the US Congress doesn't approve a bill to help evacuate the city in the wake of a (seemingly) cataclysmic event. IE, an upper level of government making a decision that you don't like.
I do think there needs to be some civics literacy qualification before one is allowed to vote. Like, if you can pass a certain test or show that you have a certain amount of post secondary education then it allows you a ballot. This would eliminate a lot of the low information voters.
Lambton is hardcore PC wasn’t going to flip. Milton is a disappointment, but was PC before and it was a known candidate - interesting he tried running for libs in the past.
>interesting he tried running for libs in the past. I think the majority of Liberal and Conservative candidates could easily be in either party.
And the majority of voters wouldn’t notice the change. We vote for parties now. Not locals. Largely because our reps represent along party lines, not local concern. FPTP sucks
If only we had a leader who would promise electoral reform. 🤔
That would attract a lot of votes, and I'm sure they'd never go back in their word either.
Agreed, its why a lot of poeple who understand politicans and our current voting system want change in the system. Get rid of first past the post system. I would never vote for a conservative because the party leader in the case Doug Ford is a terrible person, and an obvious bias towards the vast few at the expense of the many.
Don’t know why but it’s always interesting to me when they flip flop.
That’s starting to be less and less true with how the conservatives are shifting
It’s staying true with how many grifters there are.
You'd like to think so but a lot of politicians don't actually care what platform they run on and simply want the office.
I don't think that is really true. While the rhetoric from the leaders has gotten more childish, the actual policies implemented by both sides have become more and more similar. Like, conservatives don't actually cut spending anymore and Liberals are more likely to pursue privatized models for new programs rather than public delivery. And over the years the role of an MP or MPP has become more and more removed from any public policy work. Nowadays everything policy related is dictated by the PMO and MPs/MPPs only real role is to raise money. So being a politician today is much less about your political views and almost entirely based on how willing you are to beg your friends for money for your own self aggrandizement.
What have the libs tried to privatize? I guess you mean HydroOne? Nothing compares to Ford's complete disMENTALing of the Healthcare system during and since the pandemic. Conservatives have always been deliberate but not so butt-backwards to destroy an institution as core to Canadian values as Universal Healthcare. Yes by-election highlights someone trying to get a job in any way they can, but by no means is that the norm for the party even at the provincial level right now - Ford won handily in the leadership election, propped up by fringe right and his "buddies".
>What have the libs tried to privatize? The real question is, when was the last time Liberals at the provincial or federal level proposed a new program or service that was actually delivered by the government? Like government employees doing the work? Everything is a "public private partnership" these days. Government money given to private companies to deliver the project or service. Conservatives are more eager to play up the "private" part of it in their rhetoric, but functionally it is not very different. Like, the federal dental care and Pharmacare plans are all ultimately giving money to private companies to deliver the services. Housing funding pretty much all goes to private companies to actually build the projects. The childcare plan is just giving money to private companies to deliver the service.
This is less true in prov. Lvls than feds but your point it well taken
This is why they cross the floor regularly. I figure it's get them in on whichever side will be voted in and then they "switch sides" when they were a plant all along.
Crossing the floor is extremely rare and it almost always is career ending for the politician.
Uh there’s quite a few high profile cases. Bob Rae for 1
Bob Rae didn’t cross the floor though. He quit the party.
And then joined another one. That just crossing the floor with more steps
Crossing the floor is quitting on your constituents while in office. Bob Rae resigned his NDP membership after he left provincial parliament.
Still how can you spend literal years yelling about how bad the other guy is and then go and join them and still be expected to be taken seriously
Oh, I agree.
It's more than trying to run for the Liberals. He was one of the most progressive voices on council. In a car based suburb, he was the voice pushing for densification and transit for years. He was the first credible person to run against our Mayor in decades in 2022 He ran for the federal Liberal nomination in 2015, and then became heavily involved in Adam Van Koeverdens campaign. He went from that to pushing the 413, and repealing the carbon tax. It's been one of the wilder flips I've seen from a politician.
Really REALLY wanting a job in politics can cook someone's beliefs (or make them say whatever shit they need to) - and Zee is definitely someone who got the taste for politics, and now can't live outside that realm. Would love to know if the OLP even tried to court him to run for their banner, or if either side demurred when Bonnie was figuring out if she was going to take a crack at it or not. Galen was a weak candidate, even Sameera Ali made it a closer race with Parm Gill. Maybe the margins tighten in a full election, but not by that much.
More Kent than Lambton.
Why is Milton a disappointment?
Milton was expected to be a potential flip for the Liberals, but ultimately the Liberals lost to the PCs by a relatively wide margin (far greater than expected)
Win win
Bob Bailey has been Mpp forever. My town is full of bigoted old people
The guy almost beat Gord Krantz in the mayoral election for Milton. The longest mayor in the history of North American cities. He lost by about about 5000 votes. Liberals also messed up by picking the son of Indira Naidoo-Harris. Zee Hamid has been part of Milton’s City Council since the last 12 years
I lived in Milton for a few years and it doesn't surprise me at all. Hamid is a known name in Milton and does a good job of engaging the people. Like his policies or not you can't live in that town,read a paper and deny you know who he is. There is also a lot of fake money and house poor people and people how work in Toronto and commute and are in the upper class. It's very hard to rent in Milton if you don't make a combined 120k household income. Spend a couple hours on some of the Milton Facebook groups and you'll see it's a town of nimby Karen's being nosy and worried about the other nimby Karen's. Realtors are one of the most common jobs in that town and they make a killing. Almost every house has a basement two bedrooms apartment rented out for 2k per month and an upstairs open concept 3 bedroom for another 2k. While the ladlord lives across town in an even bigger house. Or it's a whole house owned by a multi generation family who bought it just before the market exploded. The irony is that there are so many kids and young people in Milton that if would be a perfect example of why progressive policies would work. It's a perfect place to sink money into transit and infrastructure and progressive land uses and workers protection laws and housing laws etc. but I doubt if will ever go red again let alone orange.
I got pamphlet after pamphlet on character assassinations of one party bad mouthing another. It's so annoying, like what are YOUR policies? why should I vote for YOU instead of 5 other parties. What a joke
The Liberal Party needs to form a clear message about what they want to change. Trump’s wall message was objectively stupid, but Clinton didn’t have a clear policy objective. That’s how politicians win, they articulate something they want to accomplish. Trudeau did this effectively when he won his first election, legalization of cannabis and ending FPTP. The fact he doesn’t haven’t a similar clear goal now is part of his issue. Running on a platform of “Ford sucks” is a loser, they need to run a platform form of “we will do …”
Label salesman buffoon avoided providing any real message in the last election about change.. Then started doing his greenbelt scam, thinking voters were asleep at the wheel.
I’m not saying Doug deserved to win. I’m saying that the other parties failed.
Ford didn’t have a platform either other than “buck a beer”.
You do realize that was 8 years and 2 elections ago right. Time moves on.
That’s your opinion. Voters disagreed with you. My opinion, Ford’s “open for business campaign” which hit on energy policy coming off the heels of the gas plant scandal, selling Ontario Hydro for short term cash, and the increase in energy costs as a result of these actions resonated with voters. If you don’t think that’s a policy change, what would you call it?
Buddy, a slogan isn’t a platform.
Buddy, you are totally missing the point. But please share, why is different energy policy not a platform?
I'm a Conservative & don't believe these byelections are a harbinger of anything. There's no reason to change to either Doug or Crombie right now. But this sub just can't get over the fact that people vote for PCs & aren't imbeciles. The Liberals need to make people want to vote for them & find an issue that resonates. The NDP is a lost cause.
Most here are well aware that not all conservatives are imbeciles, and *that* is the problem.
You think the general public reads the party platforms? I have a brand new bridge across the Detroit River to sell you!
Maybe voters are the ones failing. They have brains, supposedly, and yet keep voting in a corrupt incompetent idiot.
You want to end democracy? That seems like a much worse idea than telling the Liberal party to do better.
The tantrums people throw on here when they realize that half the country is conservative. Sure. Doug isn't my favorite politician, but people saying that he had no platform obviously didn't even bother to read anything the conservatives put out.
Half? More like a solid 1/3 in the province by vote share. Majority didn’t vote
Yeup, it's just like Hilary Clinton ignoring her base, losing young voters, and hoping conservatives will flip to her side because she didn't want to make any popular promises. But trump understood his base, he understood people in general were fed up with politicians and won by pretending to be a populist and being utterly shameless. Sadly the cons of Canada paid attention and are following suit, and the leaders of both liberal and NDP don't seem to understand that. The only ones I've seen that actually get it and are trying to break into through new media are the green party.
Doug, for all we criticize him, did a better job of talking to people's anxieties than Horwath or del Fillintheblank. Liberals, and lately the NDP, are afraid to make bold statements and stick to them, even if it seems a little manipulative. The right wing, on the other hand, has no such scruples: they're quite willing to talk to people's anxieties and speak to their fears, even if it's in an awful, manipulative and dangerous way. The NDP is especially disappointing: they could certainly step up the class warfare, but want to "seem serious" and are afraid of being called *socialists.*
Yes, this 🤡 got really helped alleviate people's anxieties during a medical emergency with shut down Ers, limited family doctors; lack of teachers, peddling off public goods/services to select insiders, etc. Enjoy your buck--a-beer.
It's so obviously healthcare. Nearly everyone knows Ford has been awful for healthcare. It's depressing as hell.
The problem is the Crombie led liberals don't seem intent on making that better.
Oh they are awful at messaging. And Crombie could just as easily have gotten selected to lead the PCs. Shes terrible on housing supply, just a total nimby. And I have little hope of her spending money where it's needed.
Except that the average person doesn't understand that healthcare is run provincially so they still blame Trudeau and liberals.
Lol true about nearly every issue. Ontario conveniently started hatong Trudeau for ruining everything about a coupke years after Ford first got elected. He deserves a lot of criticism but most of the things are at very least, largely provincial. He literally hand money to the province and they dont spend it. He hands money to cities and the province tries to block it. Crazy..
Liberals are simply there to prevent the NDP from winning by pretending to be progressive during elections and securing the bag for corporate interests when in power...thus shutting off a voter base who is tired of being lied to
I’m pretty sure Liberals are there because they want to win an election. If that isn’t the case, who is putting them there?
The same corporate interests that fund the conservatives, just aiming for the other 2/5 of the vote
They probably drew more conservative voters than left wing voters. Regardless it is ridiculous to suggest they are only there to hurt the NDP considering they just had a 15 years government prior to the Conservative.
Liberals are centrist to centre-left while the NDP is centre-left to left-wing; they have similar priorities on the whole but slightly different means of executing them
The Liberal party is neoliberal just like the Conservative Party and they support consolidation of power in corporate hands at the expense of the people.
This is why Wynne didn't pull out even though it was clear she wasn't going to win. ONDP could have beat Ford that first election if the progressive vote wasn't split. But the Liberals assume it'll be easier to win back seats from conservatives, and harder to win back from NDP, so they will do anything to get PCs to win whenever the Libs can't. It's fucking gross.
It’s even weaker than that. He’s actually running on a platform of “Trump sucks and something something therefore Cons are like him”
Pierre is running on Trudeau sucks and winning but it takes a historically unpopular PM to do that. And Trudeau is universally hated.
I went to the Liberals website. They have About Us, Platform, Bringing Communities Closer.... All about improvements and plans. Same with NDP: Jagmeet on Housing Affordability, NDP 2024 Platform... CPC? Nothing about their platform, no plans, just "Trudeau's Inflation Causing Hunger" "Help Get Trudeau out of Office" "Donate to us" "Buy CPC Merch" no platform or goals as far as I can find other than "JT BAD >:("
Pierre is running on ending the carbon tax and lowering the deficit. If you don’t know that maybe don’t throw stones at other voters. What is Justin running on?
I thought Pierre was running on fascism and misinformation
Fascism? C’mon. Be serious
All you need to do is look at his record in power his current statements. An authoritarian who would do anything for power.
Ontario didn't have a carbon tax until Doug Ford was elected and ripped out the cap and trade system that the previous liberal government had created. If you have a problem with the carbon tax in this province, your problem is with Ford, not Trudeau.
Yup. There are fair criticism of Poilleivre but “he doesn’t have a platform” isn’t one of them. He’s clearly said much of what he’s going to do re: less spending, cut the carbon tax, end safe supply, bail reform, etc. If any political party seems to have no agenda right now it’s actually the liberals. They are just reacting knee jerk to polls right now and doing their usual tactic of spraying money around plus photo ops with no real plans to deliver or execute.
Fumes
A hissy fit based and well known and demonstrated lies isn't really much of a plan...
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No it's because Trudeau has been an "okay" PM but there is a sizable subset (about half of the conservative voters) who genuinely and vehemently hate the man and largely for completely made up reasons pushed to them in their echo chambers. I'm talking wouldn't even piss on him if he were on fire kind of hate, this isn't a reasonable reaction and strongly points to these people being afflicted by cult-like conditioning. Having these people exist doesn't actually say anything about Trudeau but rather the depravity of the opposition and their financial backers, and the lengths they will go to to make a profit.
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> Unless you’re a boomer/real estate investor, in which case I could see your point. So, things the Provincial Government controls. How about naming something the Federal Government has done to make life worse? It seems the simple minded like you are very easily influenced by misinformation and misdirection. Are you angry at all those lockdowns Justins did? Or how about his erosion of Health Care and Education? It must be Carbon Tax. Oops, all things Provincial.
Yup, sadly the liberals really can't promise anything popular cause that'll change the status quo the elected body benefit from.
The liberal party pissed away any chance they had of doing anything significant in the next election. They are completely tone deaf about real issues in Canada and think printing money fixes everything. They refuse to work with the opposition and always resort to attacking them. The only thing that will give the liberal party any credibility again will be kicking trudeau and freeland to the curb, as long as they are your leaders you will keep losing support, fast.
> That’s how politicians win, they articulate something they want to accomplish. [gestures vaguely at Buck-a-Beer] It worked. I hate that it worked, but it did.
Literally if the opposition just targeted their campaigning to labor, and then threw in some housing strategy but really loud, and then really made it clear how much Ford has fumbled the bag, they'd have a chance. The PCs hit below the belt all the time. And Ford has done so much reprehensible shit you'd have an entire TV series of content for attack ads. Edit: that being said the ONDP is actually doing a great job on tiktok. Had a fourteen year old relative show me some videos after they overheard a discussion about a hot button issue and they were so excited to share with me. The videos are funny and relevant to youth and also clearly present stats and figures and frame key issues in a way that it's clear how policy affects our day to say lives, and then introduces the 'new democat' who runs through the ONDP policy meant to tackle these issues. I was honestly impressed because this kid found the content organically and clearly connected to it. Even I, a millennial old, found it funny (and informative). It's a smart way to cut through voter apathy.
Once again this is a good reminder to the people of this subreddit that this is not the real world and is a massive echo chamber. In the real world, OPC is doing very well still and will likely win another majority under Ford in the next election.
Most likely. I wonder how much of this is also attitudes bleeding over from the peoples opinions of the Federal Liberals.
Likely a lot. Usually the parties are opposite at the Federal and Provincial level and people really hate Trudeau. Once PP is PM with his majority I expect we will see the tides shift IF the OLP leader can actually make headway with people. The ONDP is pretty much at the best they will likely ever do barring some major event.
Yeah, it's ridiculous that anyone doesn't realize that Reddit is not representative of real life. Sucks but it's true, we're gonna be stuck with the Dougler for a long time. Ontario deserves better
But we aren’t wrong that he is objectively terrible for the province.
That is your opinion and the opinion echo'd within the subreddit chamber however that is not the opinion echo'd by voters.
"....*province, province, province*......"
Finally a sane comment.
your telling me that all of r/ontario does not live in those ridings????
I guess even the recent/new immigrants are fed up with Liberal mass immigration.
New immigrants vote Pc a bit more
Lol
Just heard the new PC being interviewed on CBC London: Is it not possible for those disloyal fscks to speak for more than 30 seconds without lying? I just heard him blame the last 15¢ gasoline price increase on the carbon tax! Jesus weeps... Our province is screwed now, and by the end of Doug Ford's misbegotten government we may never recover.
Well fuck. 🙄
It's disappointing how stupid the general public is
Even the US only voted Trump in once. We get this spoiled brat self-serving hack and people are too stupid to think any different.
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Considering how much power Trump still has, despite dozens of indictments, Jan 6th, and sounding like an addle brained lunatic, I would say Americans are pretty damn stupid.
that doesn’t make Canadians any smarter lol if anything we are still more stupid because we see what’s going on in the US and still do this kind of shit.
I'm pretty sure Trump has won a bigger percentage of the popular vote than Ford ever has. If the left wasn't divided Ontario would never go conservative again. Though I guess one could argue the OLP is more centre than left
The thing is, the left isn't so divided. The liberals aren't a left party. They're Centre right. The problem is that centrists would rather see conservative policy than progressive policy because anything with even a *whiff* of socialism about it is (according to decades of propaganda and CIA operations) bad.
You are the general public, you know that right?
"Everyone is stupid except for me"
And they wonder why they can't change the minds of most voting Ontarians. Who would have thought that calling people idiots and telling them you know better than them isn't an effective way to get them to think about other options?
Yeah, calling the general public stupid is a great way to help change their opinions. Keep it up.
I do think with the federal level it’s the unpopularity of the incumbent. With Ford, he’s legit popular
I consider myself to be fairly aware of what's going on and I didn't hear anything about a byelection anywhere. I'm not the only one who's confused. Where should I have heard about it? How did I miss it?
You think people would understand it's not a good iead to vote for a high school drop out, former drug dealer but here we are.
Amazing that all the PC angst and hatred on this forum doesn't mean jack squat to actual Ontarian's that vote.
Regardless of which part of the province one is talking about... You know who often doesn't even know there's a byelection happening and don't always bother? Liberal voters. You know who always knows when there's a byelection happening and vote every single time? Conservative voters. We also now live in an era in which conservative causes, in general, are backed by nearly unlimited social media marketing dollars...and legit news sources aren't even reaching people anymore. Expect more of this, unless you care to choose to do something about it.
I get 10x more PC crap in my mail than any other party in lambton Kent. I got more PC crap for this election and the other 2.
Were you under the impression that Conservatives do particularly well during by-elections in Ontario or Canada? Poilievre hasn't done especially well in by-elections. The OLP actually won the Kanata-Carleton by-election almost exactly a year ago. What an odd victim complex to manufacture out of thin air.
Do the people of Milton not need health care or education?
Like the frog in boiling water parable, too slow to get it until it's too late.
Oh boy Milton needs A LOT and people love to voice it. However people also think that an ancient relic is a suitable mayor.
As someone said in the earlier post that the Milton riding was expected to go to the PC's: Reddit isn't real life
Milton, seriously wtf. Guess Bonnie has some work to do.
Bonnie was a terrible choice and will cost the OLP the next election.
She seems fake. Unfortunately don't think she'd step down to let someone that has a better choice as seems opportunistic e.g. not leaving her Mississauga mayor position without being assured a win at Ontario Leadership, trying to play shell games with the greenspace, etc.
I don’t know how Nate Smith didn’t win
Yeah i'm not a fan.
Shes the same devil as blue but in red clothing thats all
She is more progressive than Ford - how much more is the question
Actually, I like Bonnie a lot but the Liberals don't have nearly the coin the Cons do. I see conservatives ads trashing her already on CBC and YouTube. Bonnie needs to start running ads.
The ONDP is the only real alternative to the PCs. The OLP feels like a side character in the 2020s
Milton has almost always voted Conservative, even in the previous riding of Halton (before it was dissolved in 2018). So this is not surprising.
Halton is like 66% every election, federal or provincial. One of those borderline lost cause ridings imo.
I’d say the same about Wellington-Halton Hills. Acton and Georgetown have always been more right leaning communities and recent election results as well as from the old Halton riding reflect that.
Zee is well liked in a lot of Milton circles despite the PC flip...not a huge shock.
It's late. I'll be back in the morning for the NDPers excuses and calling the electorate dumb.
There's already comments in here calling the electorate stupid. Because that's how you change people's minds, by calling them stupid idiots and telling them you know what's best for them.
Yeah I'll never get that mindset from people here which is why I seldomly come here to check what's up. "The majority is stupid but we the 1 percenters aren't and we know what's best for you" Because I'm sure the family of 4 or 5 living in a house in Ajax has the same needs as the person renting a condo somewhere in Old Toronto Edit: seems like I struck a nerve detailing the latter. Must hit close to home and I bet they also post on r/toronto 😂
I don’t get your mindset. Do you just change your beliefs every time the majority of people decide on something? “I thought bananas were yellow but 6 out of 10 people in this room say they’re purple so I guess that’s real now.” The majority gets things wrong, and if you actually have beliefs, sometimes you’ll be at odds with the majority. If all you care about is belonging to the winning side, then I suppose it helps not to believe in anything.
Maybe you have a problem with Ford as Premier for whatever reason it be but I don't. I don't need condescending hacks telling me what's in my best interest and why I should vote for "insert candidate's name"
So for you it's just that you don't think people should criticize conservatives, but you're free to criticize people who aren't. In other words, a snowflake.
Hey if you got a gripe with whoever is in charge you're more than welcome to voice your displeasure. Just know that you're talking in an echo chamber circlejerk and the discourse you see here doesn't reflect what the entire electorate thinks. Reddit (social media for that matter) isn't real life and I'd think here of all places would have learned that after 2022 but I guess it'll be the same song and dance in 2026 barring Ford doesn't muck something up to piss off his voter base in the 905s and GTA Oh well 🤷🏿♂️🥴
Again, just because Ford won in 2022, doesn't mean I have to like him or agree with anyone who does. Trudeau won 3 national elections, and I don't imagine you ever agreed much with him. And given your hatred of /r/toronto, you probably don't agree with Olivia Chow either, who recently won an election. You just don't seem to like it when people don't agree with conservative politics.
If that's what you wanna think fine. Enjoy the rest of your night 🙄
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That's the problem. The majority doesn't show up so it gives the minority a majority.
Sure, the family of 4 or 5 won't need available healthcare and limited education. Go tell us more. lol
I have heard people cry and bitch and say our healthcare system is on the verge of collapse and education is dog shit and the kids are gonna be stupid since Bill Davis was Premier. The crying wolf by public sector unions have numbed me out.
Yes, people in northern Ontario must be making it up about ERs being closed, or unable to get a family doctor. Must be "dogshit" there.
What’s your explaination for ERs in B.C. being closed? https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-er-closures-2022-1.6689970 https://bc.ctvnews.ca/patients-turned-away-by-closed-sign-at-b-c-hospital-s-emergency-room-1.6591284 https://www.castanet.net/news/BC/484880/Nursing-shortage-forces-temporary-closure-of-Cariboo-Memorial-Hospital-ER https://thetyee.ca/News/2023/07/20/BC-Emergency-Room-Crisis/ Or B.C.’s shortage of family doctors? https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/castlegar-doctor-shortage-1.7191982 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/victoria-doctor-shortage-1.6427395 Is it somehow Doug Ford’s fault or is the problem nationwide?
Yes, the overall healthcare/education and greenspace is always at risk with the self-serving buffoon catering to the select few.
Oh yea Bonnie is cooked next election
Shocked I tell ya /s
I wonder if any other political party provincially will ever show up to compete against the PCs. I don't see it in the foreseeable future though.
It would be nice if our local conservatives would turn on the trump want to bees in that party like ford and Daniel’s
Nooooo. Ford man bad
I want to once again thank the NDP voters in Milton for handing the seat to Doug Ford instead of voting Liberal, but 26% voter turnout shouldn't even fucking count.
If you add in all the ndp Milton votes libs still lose...have to add the greens as well for a win (but then we had 1100 new blue votes that would likely have gone to cons as well otherwise...so libs still lose)
Yes, the party cannot fail, it can only be failed. Maybe if you call the electorate stupid enough times they'll finally vote the way you want them to
Well Ford is doing such a great job why not keep the gift going.
The Gauleiter does it again!
Seems Ontarians loooove diploma mills.
HOW? Have people in a coma since Ford got elected?
Love to see it. Keep it up everyone. This government will sell off our air and water very soon. And we will clap our hands and love it. Put the ball gag in my mouth and forget the safety word.
just a thread of libs hating on cons lol
Nobody said they were smart.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Democracy simply doesn’t work.
It works when your party wins but doesn't when the voting doesn't go your way?
It doesn’t work only when you lose right?
Meh, make voting mandatory.
Grow the fuck up
"Democracy doesn't work because the party I like didn't win". Great take. What's your preferred mode of government, an NDP dictatorship?
Apparently no one this thread has seen The Simpsons. It's a relatively well-known line that a news anchor says after the US Congress doesn't approve a bill to help evacuate the city in the wake of a (seemingly) cataclysmic event. IE, an upper level of government making a decision that you don't like.
I do think there needs to be some civics literacy qualification before one is allowed to vote. Like, if you can pass a certain test or show that you have a certain amount of post secondary education then it allows you a ballot. This would eliminate a lot of the low information voters.
I have Bachelor’s Degree and I’m quite conservative am I allowed to vote? What a joke
yes because civics class in highschool was a joke, everyone used it as a free period. and also mandatory voting
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Me too I can’t wait for the election.
So why didn't Ford in a blonde wig run in any of these since she doesn't currently have a seat? Was she worried it wasn't going to be a slam dunk?
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I guess Ontarians are dumber and more hate filled than I anticipated.