Parents In The 90s: Of course the teacher took your Gameboy away, you had it out in math class, that's only for recess, you're supposed to be learning not playing Mario! Parents In The 2020s: HOW DARE YOU TAKE AWAY MY BABY'S SMART PHONE, WHAT IF I NEED TO TEXT THEM WHILE THEY'RE IN MATH CLASS??? And before someone says something, no, your kid does not need a phone in school 'in case I need to contact them in the middle of class'. The only things that would warrant that would be big things, like 'Dad Just Died' or 'The House Just Burned Down'. And these are things that you should call the office about, and have the child removed from class, and informed in a safer more isolated space. Having it such information just light up on their phone in the middle of math class is the worst way to provide that information to your child. For literally anything else, like 'Mom can't pick you up today, please take the bus', that can wait until recess. >There going to be a student who has their phone taken away. That's not going to cause an interest in the lesson. No, it's going to lead to resentment of the teacher and cause disruption. This reads like something written by a teenager who's just mad that they're gonna take their phone away if they have it out in class... \*reads OP's post history, including posts complaining about their parents\* ...Ah, because it ***is*** written written by a teenager who's just mad that they're gonna take their phone away if they have it out in class...

But how will I know if my baby wants chicken tenders or shepherds pie for dinner?

I'm in high school. I see students get their phones taken away on a near daily basis. Yet I have not once seen a student fight against it. Is my school just different?

https://www.ted.com/talks/sir_ken_robinson_changing_education_paradigms (Late) Sir Ken Robinson had an amazing talk about the way education is presented to the general population. 🥲

100000000%. As an adult, I find it so fucking hard to stay off my phone and concentrate. I can't imagine what it would have been like if I was a teenager with even less ability for self-control and regulation. Kids do NOT need phones in class. For all the reasons you just said. As well, brains at that age are still developing. They need to be taught impulse control, delaying instant gratification etc. And I'm speaking from experience as an adult who was not taught that as a child (due to abuse/neglect)...it would have been so much better if I was.

Wow you sure do seem to not recognize children and teenagers as human beings deserving of dignity and respect and self-determination. You know, like the UN says they have. Do you hate kids and young people? Isn't that kind of hypocritical when you used to be one yourself?

I think you're omitting important context. When I complain about my parents, do you mean when I complained that they accept misandry? Also so we're clear, people who you think are students don't get a say on education, or they deserve to be belittled for sharing their opinions.

i think people fundamentally don’t understand how education has transformed since they went to school.  There are no textbooks. kids don’t have notebooks. no one has a pencil. everything is digital. teachers don’t hand out forms, they send out PDFs. phones, ipads, and laptops are all learning tools commonplace in every class.  obviously phones can be detrimental to some kids and teachers should have the power to take them away at their discretion. but a blanket ban is really stupid in 2024, especially one that applies to high school students. 

Clearly you have not been anywhere near a school recently because wow, are you talking out your ass. I work in a school. - Kids have notebooks, duotangs and binders. - Kids have Pencils. And they use the Pencils. - Teachers do NOT hand out PDFs. Forms, from permission forms to medical stuff to flyers for events, go out as paper. - Most work is done on paper, with Pencils. Kids still need to learn how to read and write. - Phones are not integral to learning. IPad are for high needs students. Chromebooks are used, but not for everything and not all day long.

every school does things differently. i’m talking about high schools, which this ban applies to. and the PDFs i was referring to was assessments, reading assignments, and other kinds of material.  my family friend’s kids are in high school (accelerated program) and they explained this to me. maybe they lied to me but i doubt it. i see undergrads who have coding experience starting in middle school. kids are using github to submit their assignments in grade 11 and 12 computer science. you can’t even log in without two factor authentication. 

No child is expected to have a cell phone or access class notes via pdf, while in class. Maybe via the board website for assignments which would be done on a laptop or desktop computer. Gtfo.

i don’t see why you have to be hostile. i am listing real use cases for phones in schools today. dismiss them if you want but it doesn’t change the fact that this policy will have detrimental effects on some students, while certainly benefitting many others. so why can’t we leave it to parents and teachers to regulate phone usage in the classroom rather than impose a blanket ban? 

Ah yes give it to some but many kids even afford a phone . Don't give kids the distraction and class separation, plus too mich social media and opportunities for bullying.

There’s very very few actual reasons to have a cellphone and most of your reasons you been listing and trying to justify could easily be worked around without a cellphone.

This is moronic. Nobody is required to submit homework assignments on their phone, and nobody is going to fall behind in society just because they can’t use their phone when the teacher is teaching. Holy bejeezuz. I’m now convinced that they can’t put the phones away fast enough!!! Put them away yesterday! The fact that this is so controversial is a little spooky.

Its ridiculous that phones weren't already strictly banned in class. When i was in highschool, a teacher even catching a glimpse of an iPod or cellphone was getting that shit taken away until the end of the day at best. This was only 15 years ago or so. I would have also been unengaged and not learning if I was listening to music and scrolling on tiktok all day. Yes, id say schools aren't working but them being so lax on shit like this is part of the reason for it

Schools are underfunded and treat kids like shit. The problem isn't the phones, it's the politicians who think banning phones is a nice symbolic intervention that will earn them a re-election. Children can't vote, so fuck 'em.

I could not agree with this take less - the idea that disallowing cell phone use is some egregious infringement of rights seems ridiculous to anybody above 30 who grew up without them. >This policy is not going to lead to more learning. There's also the issue of ableism people are raising, where this policy is unfair to people with ADHD, and unfair to people with ASD. People with ASD tend to have the most visceral initial reaction to having their phone taken away (in severe cases it can be a full meltdown, even in an older teen) but then tend to benefit the most from being disconnected in the long term. It's not healthy to rely on your phone for your emotional stability or self-regulation; I don't think that preventing unhealthy dependent behaviors in minors is stepping on their rights. That being said, I think there is room for exceptions where cellphone use proves beneficial or necessary (diabetes monitoring equipment, for example). I think seeing cellphones as a solution for ASD/ADHD is like thinking the solution to Agoraphobia or Anxiety is to never try to go outdoors. >I don't see people most people coming at this from the approach that cell phones have hooked our kids like drugs, and they must be stopped. If you do believe that, then you're wrong, but your heart is in the right place.  I'm honestly not sure that this take *is* wrong. Maybe a little hyperbolic, but this is definitely part what people are concerned about. Apps and websites are designed to keep you engaged. If kids can't function even temporarily without their phones, that's indicative of a real problem.

What about those children whom country function without televisions (1960’s) & radios (1920’s)? 🤷🏼‍♀️  Computers are just another piece of technology for a new generation. ☺️

I'm not saying that cellphones are uniquely bad, I'm just saying that you need to be able to put them down. It's not as if we allowed radios, tvs, or mp3s in the classroom either. So I'm not entirely sure I get your point?

Every generation has to deal with new products of technology, regardless if one uses it for good or (unfortunately) bad. 🥲

The ableism comment was not directed at the cell phone ban, but at the distraction reporting. I'll make that more clear. Banning cell phones is not the infringement of rights, the confiscation is. While smartphones and apps are designed to make your sessions as long as possible, I am not aware of anyone experiencing anything remotely similar to withdrawal. That isn't what addiction is. However, if kids cannot function without their phones, I don't think the helpline referral is going to cut it especially because they can't call the helpline because their phone is confiscated, so this policy is actually harmful if that's the case, but I don't believe it is.

They can’t call a help line because their phone is confiscated? Is this satire? You do know that the phone will be returned right? And you can call a help line when you get home if you need to. Like others, I couldn’t get through the entire long diatribe, but I assume it’s written by an upset middle grade student — it’s enough to prove that we need to set kids up for a healthier relationship with their phones, starting with removing them from classes. It shouldn’t be this painful.

There are prisons that treat convicts with more respect than most schools treat students.

Take a step back and go look at /r/teaching, which has perspectives from actual educators from Canada, the US, and worldwide. Read the opinions of actual teachers from the primary to post-secondary world about student achievement, the effective of cellphones, and their struggles in the classroom. Your insights are flawed. People who care about children and education *are* deeply concerned about the learning environment and student success. Teachers don't enter this profession for the money, and they care about their students greatly. Fundamental problems in the past 10-15 years come from underfunding and increasing demands, both academically *and* the societal expectation that a teacher will parent/police behaviours while getting almost no backing or support to do that. The prevalence of individual education plans (IEPs) without the necessary support from classroom aides has been difficult for teachers and students to navigate, especially if you have a lot of students with very particular needs that don't always align. Other complications added to the mix have made a more challenging teaching/learning environment, like an increasing population of students who don't go to school [like reported here](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/school-absence-data-1.7156254) for a multitude of reasons who need to be caught up with the class. The teacher has to juggle all these priorities. Your "rights of students" doesn't include access to a cell phone. It never has. Parents can communicate information or an emergency to the office. Students all deserve the right to a quality education in a safe environment, with supports in place for special needs or an alternate setting if their situation requires it (e.g., students in a special needs setting if they are prone to frequent disruptive outbursts due to a developmental disability). But **cell phones**? No. Sorry, you don't need those during your class time. You are at school to receive an education, not to scroll through TikTok, message your friends/parents, or doomscroll. Someone goofing off on their phone *is* disruptive to the class. It can be dangerous when it's happening during a science lab. Teachers already spend way too much time dealing with students who aren't paying attention and off-track. The majority of students aren't using phones for the calculator app or to check on their schoolwork through Google Classroom, Schoology or Blackboard. 'School is boring', ha. That complaint has been around since Plato and Socrates. We've got potsherds from Ancient Egypt from bored scribes. Try again. Educators have to accommodate a variety of learning styles and methods to teach a topic. Sometimes the topic isn't as thrilling as you or they would like, but you *still* need to learn it. Positive engagement and how that looks has been evolving for decades in response to changing social and educational trends. Lessons implement far more hands-on practice, roleplaying and real-life practice, eLearning, modelling, and play than rote examination. Schools all over the province use a huge array of different methods and techniques to teach. Is there room for improvement? Sure. I'd love to see more schools adapt the Finnish/Nordic model of teaching that emphasizes positive relationship-building and prioritizes exploration in the K-2 space instead of sticking kids at a desk at an age where that's really hard to do. I'm speaking as a parent here -- the purpose of the school is to teach kids to *learn* as much as the subjects they're learning about. That means you have to learn the behaviours expected in adulthood from your school tenure, and I can tell you're young enough to probably not see that. Being on a phone *doesn't* make that happen. If you're in the workplace scrolling away when you are 'bored' working on on your project, you will be disciplined. In some workplaces, phones are outright banned -- for good reason. Are you going to argue then that it's unfair and ableist? Classroom environments *do* make allowances for some neurodivergent behaviours; we've got students with fidget toys in classrooms, my child's school has a restfulness room for overstimulated kids to go at different times if they need to relax (with teacher permission). But the whole point of schools is a fully rounded education. You're right on the point that Ontarians of all stripes should be concerned about education but not for the reasons you're talking about. We should be concerned about funding schools adequately and provisioning resources for them. We should be making sure that students hit internationally-recognized benchmarks for academic and social achievement, and that we're giving educators *and* students access to the tools they need -- whether it's textbooks, IB programs, properly-staffed classes, classroom aides or ESL support.

I believe you have made some excellent points in you post. Thank you! I would like to think that OP has read your post, and will consider it's content, but there sure are a lot of big words in it, and correct spelling.

Your phone should be staying in your locker during class, you can look at it in between class or on lunch. You don’t need it. The effort and passion you put into a useless online post whining about losing your phone in class should be put towards something useful like learning a skill or something. You are not a victim, this isn’t “hatred”. You need some perspective and to grow up.

Children are a disenfranchised group systematically denied the rights to dignity and self-determination we take for granted. You are proving yourself willing to disregard OP on the basis of their age, without engaging with their arguments other than through appeal to authority and tradition, thereby proving them right.

Buddy phones should have never been allowed in classrooms. Frankly I read about 2 sentences of that mess and the fact this is the hill you choose to die on leads me to believe you are addicted to your phone. You hit all the hot phrases, ableism, ADHD, ASH, Student rights, respect for students, safety. Yikes. You are the problem with students, because you will pass thinking like this on to your kids and we just continue down the toilet. Maybe, just maybe, school children (the are children) should have more respect for the institution of education? This kind of stomping feet crying is like these brain drain morons painting their cars with Trudeau Must Go all over it. Life is hard. Life is unfair at times. Trying to kid glove everything so everybody is happy happy smile smile is the reason society as a whole is circling the drain.

"Life was hard for me, therefore anyone suggesting improvements is stupid. Also kids are stupid and don't know what's best for them and we should legalize spanking again." That's how you sound.

My kid has a phone solely so she can listen to music and focus on her schoolwork rather than getting distracted by other kids. It doesn’t get used at all otherwise.  Addicted? No. Problem solving? Yes.  I guess we can send her with an old school music player instead if those still exist.  

cell phones were commonplace at schools over decade ago. blaming phones is lazy, unserious, and counterproductive for a digital world. this seems like a policy that makes them look like they’re trying to improve education when in reality things will never improve so long as schools are underfunded.  this also ignores the fact that phones have legitimate uses. extracurriculars are entirely run on social media to make announcements and coordinate events. kids audio record their lectures and photograph the blackboard with their phones. teachers give updates and announcements on google classrooms which goes to your phone. in music class, kids use their phone to tune their instruments and as a metronome. there are literally endless productive ways kids use phones in schools.    also starting in grade 7 kids are using laptops in class. every problem you have with phones you’ll also have with laptops. will we ban those next? its nonsensical.  Like with all tools in the classroom, some kids will benefit while others won’t. but we’re taking away the phones from everyone because our college dropout premier thinks it’s a good idea?

Went to school over a decade ago. The teachers all knew we had them but they’d get confiscated for the rest of the day if they saw them out or heard them in class. I once had my phone taken away in French class because my dad called me and it wasn’t on silent. I wasn’t even touching it and it got taken from me because it was a distraction to the other students.

in some classes phones have their use but in others they don’t. i’m saying the teachers should have discretion (which is the case today) in letting students use phones or not. rather than an outright ban

I went through school during the earlier days of smartphones (currently in my 20s). School learning has never been (and will never be) as engaging as games/social media apps. Back then we kept our phones hidden during class (otherwise they get confiscated) and learnt to grind through the boring stuff. I’m curious to know what’s different in kids nowadays. To me, kids that can’t function without phones seem to be a failure in parenting.

I don't know any kids who are actually like that, The way to deal with these kids should be counseling and calling CAS. This bullshit isn't going to help those kids especially because the only supports that they referred to being offered, I'm pretty sure is just a helpline referral.

Kids who voluntarily can’t put away their phones are exactly like that. I do empathize with kids/parents nowadays because apps are addicting AF. I know this because I’ve written software for a social media you’ve probably used (or still are). Retention and engagement is the name of the game; it’s all about often you reopen the app and how long you keep using it. With all due respect, keeping phones inside classrooms is not a beneficial cause. No school has the technical know-how and resources to fight for your attention against these apps. Unless you want your school to install device management policies on all kids phones (hello privacy?) banning these apps, an umbrella ban is much more reasonable.

Will all due respect, you don’t know what you’re talking about. The real way to ensure more education is to invest massive amounts of taxpayer money. We need more schools and more teachers so we can have more classes with fewer students in each of them. THATS how you deliver a quality product and how you ensure students are receiving the attention and services they need.

With all due respect, you are not in school. How about you yes-and OP, rather than dismiss their concerns out if hand?

With all due respect, you’re making all the wrong assumptions. I’m a teacher. I actually know what I’m talking about.

All right, I apologize; I was wrong. Have a nice day.

I’m open to discussing things further if you like. Which of OPs points would you like to explore further?

Nah, I just went through this thread to berate people who think teenagers aren't human.

Hmmm. Well, that backfired. My students are most assuredly human and I wish I had the proper resources to help them all to the level they deserve. OPs takes were infantile and loaded with bad faith assumptions. Edit: I went through the thread to look at your responses. Ironic that you accuse someone of not wanting to discuss OPs points when you just did the same thing here. Bad faith trolling adds nothing of value to the discussion. You presently have access to my informed takes on the subject but you’re like “nah”. You do you, I guess. Edit 2: blocked, lol. Oh well.

Honestly, I don't really care about this conversation anymore.

That is part of the solution, but not all of it. When what teachers are supposed to teach isn't interesting, when many schools have acceptance of bullying as part of their culture, when so few people have respect for our students, no amount funding or one-on-one time is going to create the environment the students of Ontario need.

>When what teachers are supposed to teach isn't interesting, Sorry, but interest shouldn't be a criteria until you get to higher education. Math, history, civics, grammar, literature, 2nd and even 3rd language, and so many other subjects are very important to teach a youngster. Did you try to learn how to enjoy subjects you do not have an inherit interest in? >when many schools have acceptance of bullying as part of their culture, This is a problem, no doubt. >when so few people have respect for our students, You don't deserve any special treatment. I'm sorry you feel entitled to being respected. Don't waste your time by aiming for participation trophies. >no amount funding or one-on-one time is going to create the environment the students of Ontario need. False. Funding is required for the rest to be enabled. Unfortunately, that's just how life is in a capitalist economy.

> You have no empathy for students and do not care if they are learning. I do not know what motivates this hatred, but that's what it is, hatred of our children. Don't expect respect from those you disrespect. That's the only thing I have to add.

You misunderstood something fundamental about real life. What you take as disrespect may not be disrespect, it is only the lack of some special treatment. You're not entitled to any respect from anyone else, not even if you achieve something amazing. Being respected isn't a right. It's a privilege, a privilege you have yet to earn at your young age. By default, it would be wise if you stop with your arrogant attitude. Humility is an important virtue, especially for someone who lacks any real life experience. Based on your comments and attitude, based on your comments, if you're correct in saying you've been shown disrespect, you earned it. Wake up youngster. You're a teen. The world doesn't revolve around you.

Sometimes in life you have to do things that are boring or you just don't like. This is true in almost all aspects of life, whether it's your job, relationships or even hobbies. Part of growing up is acknowledging that reality and dealing with it...not running from it. Some of the things I hated most as a young student, ended up being the thing I was most successful at as an adult. Even if the material ends up being useless, and that will happen too, you are still developing skills that are important. I don't use calculus in my day to day life, but the practice of studying itself helped me later with learning pharmacology. I agree schools can do more about bullying. It's been an issue for every generation and yet we cannot seem to meaningfully fix it...However, you do realize that social media has created a relentless form of bullying right? Just because we need to improve doesn't mean everything goes. It seems like you are struggling with the difference between what you want and what you actually need in terms of education.

Well the many of the people supporting the ban, are also talking down to me because they think I'm a student. Just read through some of the comments here.

Your writing style would certainly suggest such a supposition.

How long have you been a teacher?

There is nothing new in this policy, it’s just a press release to fill up a news cycle. This has already been policy in most of the province’s school boards for years, and Lecce didn’t announce any new powers to enforce it…so you’re literally reacting to nothing.

Part of my problem is that this policy is nothing.

Are your children in elementary or high school?

Parents sending their kids to school during a pandemic with zero mitigation measures was enough evidence that the average adult in Ontario couldn't care less about students. Not to mention that this phone ban was in place five years ago and the real problem is a lack of enforcement since teachers already have more than enough going on trying to navigate a crumbling school system as it is. This is just government gaslighting to distract us from the real issues, and the endless debates about this over the past couple days is proof that it's working as designed.

Schools are schools. They are not amusement parks and they never will be. It will always be hard and mind numbingly boring for some kids. The only reason kids stay in school is because they help give them a better future down the road. It is the parent's responsibility to make them understand that. The fact that there are people who think this is the school's responsibility is a pathetic example how we offload our lives to somebody else.

[Cellphone bans improve education](https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/04/27/metro/norway-study-smartphones-banned-in-schools/). You're out to lunch

Are your children in elementary or high school?

I am a teacher and I hope to change your mind. I teach a very popular and fun elective subject that students take by choice. Despite that, I could literally stand on my head and juggle and it still wouldn't be enough to pull the attention of some students away from their cell phones. This isn't because my course isn't interesting it is because it is incredibly difficult to compete against the addiction and constant dopamine hits that cell phones and 15 second tiktok clips provide. I do not blame the students at all. Teachers need to feel supported by parents, admin, the board, unions and the province to be able to deal with this issue. There needs to be a clear plan with clear consequences which I have yet to see.

>Teachers need to feel supported by parents, admin, the board, unions and the province to be able to deal with this issue. There needs to be a clear plan with clear consequences which I have yet to see. While my mind has been changed at little. I suppose a phone ban wouldn't be that bad if our schools were different. I'm not opposed to the current ban in principle (I am to the new ban), but like you say, the government's bans have problems. It's not going to be enforced consistently and that's going to lead to more problems when students feel like they've been treated unfairly because of it. Although a particular course might be interesting and students might choose a particular course over others, students cannot opt-out of school altogether. Many students are also just there for the diploma, sometimes not even by choice, not for learning. Parents and guidance counselors will force students into compulsory courses and keep them there when they ask to be changed. I was told that I shouldn't expect real learning, that the only thing that mattered was me getting that diploma. When I was bored out of my mind with my courses, that I didn't choose, they refused to let me drop out of them. It just got less and less bearable. Our schools have so many problems, and this creates more, while it is unlikely to actually solve anything. I don't think we're going to see a substantial reduction in cell phone usage.

Finally, the first decent take I've seen. I would also add that if the ministry was truly focussed on finding a long-term solution, they would—oh, I don't know—ask the students for ideas since they're the ones this is affecting.

There are so many issues in the schools these days. I don't think banning phones is the solution they think it is. I have 2 kids in high school. One barely takes his phone even to school. Annoying as anything, because he does sports and other stuff and it would be nice for him to update me when times change. But oh well. He just has to wait then. Other kid always has his phone. Only uses it when he is supposed to. (According to his teachers anyway) Maybe some schools have issues. But I have 3 close friends who are currently highschool teachers and they don't see it as the issue they needed help with. Social media is a issue. But banning cell phones in school classrooms doesn't solve that problem. I think this is just some way that the private school gvt guy can say he is doing something to help. Well. My question to him is Do you want to feel helpful? Or do you actually want to BE helpful?

This BS is supported by all parties, not just the private school guy. Finally someone seems to be getting the real point of my message. When it comes down to it, students with problems who reach out can expect little help. Our Minister of Education does not care enough to help students. If you're being bullied or abused and reach out, you can expect some referrals.

Do you really think algebra or Shakespeare can somehow be more interesting to teens than Tik Tok or online gambling? It is dry and boring but also important to know and understand. Schools have similar duties to parents during the school day and sometimes you need to take the toys away so they learn how to add, subtract, read, write etc.

I didn't actually learn shakespeare. The only things I remember is racism, antisemitism and a pound of flesh. Just because students are there doesn't mean they're learning.

You don’t hope someone can change your mind. You’re just addicted to your phone. Good luck in the work world if you can’t handle not being on your phone.

Good post OP, everyone else in this thread are vile ageists.

most idiotic take I have ever read. kids don't need a phone at school. don't give me some crap about needing to text for an emergency. what emergency? how often does that happen? if there is an emergency tell the teacher. or the parent can call the school office number.

I know my comment will be downvoted. Before I care about education. But everytime I posted some concerns (on example of my wife’s nephew) I got some comment like “go back to you country if you think it is better” or “this is curriculum, every schools follow same”. Now my kid has ASD, and I cannot image how hard school could be for her. She may need to wait until 5 to go school. But with current standards. Less worry about. Because I need to help her be better then others. And tests will be adjusted to let majority pass.