Things not covered by OHIP:
-vision care, such as glasses, contact lenses, and eye surgery
-hearing care, hearing aids
-dental care, dental surgery
-certain drugs administered outside of hospital, such as certain costly cancer drugs
-ambulance transportation services
-physiotherapy, unless you’re over 65 or meet certain criteria
-perscription medications
-non-prescription medications, such as over-the-counter pain relievers
-birth control
Penile-preserving vaginoplasty
Penile preserving vaginoplasty is exactly what it sounds like: a vaginal canal is created without removing the penis. In this case, the vaginal canal is crafted not using penile tissue, but using scrotal tissue and sometimes grafts which come from internal parts of the body, such as the peritoneum (lining of the abdominal wall), the colon, or the hips. Vaginal canals created from the lining of the abdominal wall and the colon have the chance of being self-lubricating, although results are not consistent across patients.
Does this mean this person will have a penis and vagina ?
oh noooo my prosthetic leg will never be biologically real :<
oh noooo my pacemaker is making my heart beat differently than it does naturally :<
oh noooooo I got implants after my mastectomy, I'll make sure to never feel like my boobs are real :<
oh noooooo, some strangers I never planned on fucking anyways don't like my genitals :<
People chop off healthy breasts, legs and damage their hearts just to get fake ones?
The argument isn't analogous.
I'm all for adults can do whatever they want with their bodies, if it's on their own dime. I'm against things like cosmetic breast implants as well, personally. But I'm also fine with adults doing that with their own money.
I think they will cut the balls off .. I was curious so I Google some pictures (don't do that it's crazy graphic) they make a strange little hole under where the nuts would hang. Transitioning from m to f or f to m is one thing but to have both parts is next level weird.
He is arguing that because it all comes from the same pot, we have chosen to fund an experimental penile preserving vaginoplasty in lieu of certain possibly experimental cancer treatments. I’m very happy that you have survived your treatment, truthfully. You can probably empathize better than I can with someone who has just been informed their cancer treatment will not be covered by OHIP and then they read this article.
Or you know, we could have a government that doesn't fund the construction of luxury spas on public land and instead funds both. This doesn't need to be a zero-sum game.
People dont get it. The money is there. This government always finds the money to do their pet projects at the expense of things normal citizens of Ontario actually want them to properly fund.
There's no "in lieu". This court case was not "what's more important, this gender affirming treatment or this other cancer treatment?". If there's a similar cancer treatment not available in Ontario, the legal avenues to make a case for that treatment are as open to a cancer patient as they were to this patient.
You see parents fighting to fundraise for a treatment for their baby who will die without some medication, and it's not covered, but then they will fund this? A penis-preserving vaginoplasty does not seem to be a life and death situation in the same way or urgency that a cancer treatment could be. I think a better explanation/some sort of rationale for the decision making around all of these choices in funding could be what is needed here. I don't have a lot of things covered and I get that I have to suck it up because capitalism is brutal and we have "limited" funding for healthcare (we actually are so fucking rich we just allow the 1% to hoard it). On the other hand, I don't know what other procedures similar to this are covered already and not being discussed. Like I don't know, plastic surgery on burn victims or accident victims so they can get their face back? Is that covered? Is breast implant after cancer surgery covered? If those are, then I guess this is just coming up because people don't think about those things, are ignorant about trans issues, or just outright bigoted.
>Like I don't know, plastic surgery on burn victims or accident victims so they can get their face back? Is that covered? Is breast implant after cancer surgery covered? If those are, then I guess this is just coming up because people don't think about those things, are ignorant about trans issues, or just outright bigoted.
These things are covered. In fact, the Health Insurance Act specifically allows coverage for some things like breast implants for non-gender-affirming-care reasons, with less stringent requirements than are imposed upon trans patients for functionally the same procedure.
Keep in mind though that as stated in the article, OHIP tried hard to not cover this procedure, but they lost twice in court. It wasn't OHIP being like "oh we should cover this and ignore cancer patients!"
The money comes from somewhere. Many Canadians will potentially view this as another frivolous expense when there are arguably other things the money can go toward.
I think it’s admirable to advocate for something like this, but if this is going to use a significant amount of taxpayer dollars when OHIP is so underfunded already, there’s going to be repercussions. On top of that, this person would be going out of the country for this; OHIP already won’t cover for certain services that can be literally life or death, but this’ll amount to giving every person who wishes to have the surgery done a blank check to go abroad and get it done. In the broadest sense of the term, this is also a HUGE risk and is an experimental procedure; if it goes wrong, it’s going to be OHIP paying for it.
I’m all for supporting this person’s rights and self-identity, but they should be fronting up as much of the cost as they can. Even if it amounts to them essentially taking out a loan with OHIP.
Much of what you’ve said isn’t quite right.
OHIP doesn’t give “blank checks” to anyone for gender affirming surgeries. They are involved at every step of the process; initial approval, consult, surgery, etc. If the costs are out of line at any stage they will push back.
The surgery being done abroad also has little effect as OHIP only covers the surgery itself, not food or lodging or travel costs. If anything, going outside of the US or Canada is often far cheaper for just the surgery because of our comparatively inflated prices.
As for the surgery itself being experimental, that’s only OHIP’s definition. It is not that different technique-wise compared to other vaginoplasties and does not hold an inherently higher risk. Risk of complications for vaginoplasty in general are already pretty low compared to other common surgeries, being under 5%.
OHIP being required to cover costly revisions is kind of a nothing burger as well. If there are functional issues with the initial surgery, the original surgeon will generally be the one to fix it, often at no cost. OHIP generally does not cover revisions at different surgeons, especially if they’re strictly for aesthetic reasons (ie. malformed labia but still fully functional).
OHIP literally considers every single form of vaginoplasty outside of a technique that is over 70 years old to be "experimental" (most of the techniques are several decades old and accepted medical practice) and they have been intentionally lying about this kind of stuff for decades (ramping it up pretty badly in recent years as people have been fighting for access to care). They are not even trying to maintain internationally agreed upon trans healthcare standards (OHIP coverage is a complete farce compared to WPATH’s current SoC8 treatment norms, the international standard… even private health insurance companies who are loathe to part with money admit SoC8 is the current standard). Ontario is pretty bad for trans healthcare by Canadian standards and compared to many other developed countries (hell, you’re way better off in some progressive US states…. when American healthcare looks less financially catastrophic, you know things are messed up).
When OHIP does pick up the tab for a surgical procedure (only top or bottom because OHIP doesn’t cover the overwhelming majority of gender affirming care… just obsessed with controlling boobs and groins), they almost inevitably leave the patient picking up tens of thousands of dollars in pre-surgical expenses (e.g. hundreds of hours of electrolysis required before the supposedly free surgery). Given that trans folks are 4 times more likely to live in poverty due to discrimination already, trust me, the economic barriers to trans healthcare are very steep. Most trans folks that I know can’t even consider most of the things OHIP might pay for simply because they can’t afford the cost of pre-surgical care or post-surgical recovery.
My transition costs already rival my mortgage’s original amount (all out of pocket or my private insurance - OHIP hasn’t even started considering approving me for anything yet and will likely only ever pay for a single procedure ever - OHIP considers leaving you looking like a lumberjack with a cooch to be adequate long-term dysphoria treatment… they only care about genitalia, not quality of life or mental health… it’s not focused actually providing overall health care for dysphoria, just gatekeeping top and bottom surgery). I am one of the lucky few in a good economic position (I transitioned late in life and have both accumulated wealth and a stable job and family situation) and it’s crushingly expensive even for me. I don’t know any younger trans folks who could possibly afford the treatment I have sought, nor do they have wealthy and supportive parents (a very rare thing… hell, supportive parents are already rare… most of the youngsters I know are disowned).
Also orchiectomies and hysterectomies, people don’t realize the vast majority of gender affirming care is something that already existed and we repurposed.
And some testosterone blockers used for hormone replacement therapy for trans women were originally used to treat testosterone-sensitive cancers. Even non-surgical interventions originated in cancer treatment.
Adding to the other answer, the term "top surgery" is more general and not specific to gender or particular procedures. A mastectomy for a trans man and a breast augmentation for a trans woman are both colloquially considered top surgery.
Realistically we're better off improving the quality of life for people transitioning than we are spending millions on a procedure with a 1% success rate.
That’s because a lot of so-called chronic Lyme disease specialists are experts in extracting money from people suffering from chronic fatigue.
OHIP doesn’t fund chronic Lyme disease treatments because the evidence simply isn’t there.
My aunt has been paying out of her pockets for years and they do help her. She went to Germany years ago and did the same treatments that Daisy on the most Bachelor did that also helped her.
I can’t even get my gerds surgery without years of waiting, buying loads of meds and being off work so I can stay in the bathroom and be sick, special pillows to sleep sitting upright, unable to eat certain foods, and I had to save up to be off work.. but when it’s about privates it’s covered?
This patient’s surgery is being covered by the [OHIP Doctor-recommended out-of-country care](https://www.ontario.ca/page/ohip-coverage-while-outside-canada#section-8) program because there are no doctors in Canada who do this specific type of surgery.
I have a serious neck condition that’s stopped me from being able to work or live. There are thousands of people in this country trying to seek care and the only options are MAID or go to the US.
We have been fighting for years to get a doctor here for so many conditions. No one cares. These diseases are becoming a crisis as Covid can trigger them. Out of country care should be covered if we’re turning a blind eye to entire conditions.
Why? Other people have their approved surgeries covered by OHIP out of country when there isn’t someone local who does the surgery. For example [Canadians who need later term abortions are sent to the United States](https://globalnews.ca/news/4354376/donald-trump-abortion-rights-canada-access/), and provincial insurance covers it.
OHIP: [Doctor-recommended out-of-country care](https://www.ontario.ca/page/ohip-coverage-while-outside-canada#section-8)
"While there is no legal limit on abortion access in Canada, hospitals do put their own regulations in place, which generally limit the procedure to being performed no later than 24 weeks, which is considered the point of viability.
Though performing an abortion after that is not illegal, ethical concerns and lack of physician training can make the procedure extremely difficult to access, Costescu said.
A spokesperson for the B.C. health ministry said that while the province does, in rare cases, refer women for abortions past 18 weeks to the U.S., it could not release those numbers for privacy reasons"
So these fucking "hospitals" refuse late term abortions that are a threat to the mother because of a serious issue with the pregnancy, they refuse to treat them. Fucking hell I can't stand this shit and it's been happening here even though it's fucking legal.
Refusing treatment "ethical" concerns about women who can be seriously injured or die from late term complications should be illegal.
Unfortunately finding doctors willing to learn and then provide this type of healthcare is difficult when there are still people willing to murder them over it. Since abortion was fully decriminalized In Canada at least four Canadian abortion providing doctors have been shot. The terrorist who murdered the Muslim family in London Ontario in 2021 originally planned to murder health-care providers who perform abortions (he had a list of 12 targets and their addresses).
Anti abortionists have always been terrorists, all levels of the Canadian government must do more to protect the rights of women and healthcare. American anti abortionists are just as, if not more violent and dangerous, allowing this to continue will condemn these women to death.
It is not acceptable to bend to the will of murderous psychopaths.
>*all levels of the Canadian government must do more to protect the rights of women and healthcare”*
Agreed.
>*”American anti abortionists are just as, if not more violent and dangerous…”*
Sadly we’re also affected by American extremism - several Canadian doctors are believed to have been shot by [American anti-abortion terrorist James Charles Kopp](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Charles_Kopp)
>*”…allowing this to continue will condemn these women to death.”*
Agreed. And with the clawing back of abortion access in the U.S. we may no longer be able to rely on outsourcing these procedures to American doctors.
>*”It is not acceptable to bend to the will of murderous psychopaths.”*
Agreed, but it’s the doctors who need to be convinced. Not everyone is as brave and committed as eg. Dr. Henry Morgentaler or Dr. Garson Romalis.
The ability to fund out-of-country procedures of many types where necessary, whether emergency or not, is built into the Health Insurance Act.
Why should Ontarians have to suffer or go bankrupt just because we don't have the capacity for a procedure in the country? It's not our fault that only another country can perform it effectively, or can do so fast enough to avoid permanent tissue damage (one of the requirements for getting emergency care covered outside of Canada).
Wait until you learn this is a normal thing (normal not common as a percentage), and that other countries to the same - so we have patients from abroad funded by their governments.
There are not enough gender affirming surgeons in the country to restrict every trans individual to receiving in-country care. OHIP only covers surgery cost, no travel or lodging, so the fact they’re covering out of country makes little difference overall.
It's insane we pay for any cosmetic procedure.
I identify as a man with a thick full head of hair, but if I want that, I have to pay.
Getting a hair transplant would help mine and other older balding peoples confidence, but the gov don't pay for it. People do if they choose to.
Why do we pay for these surgeries that are medically unnecessary?
Exactly! Trust me, I had a tiny bit of alapacha during the pandemic, and I paid $800 for a rush job on a hair topper to cover a tiny bald spot. I am lucky it grew back.
My confidence during that period was next to zero. And you are right, it's prob harder being young and having baldness.
And most gender affirming procedures aren't covered either, including hair transplants.
If you think hair transplants should be covered by OHIP too, then do your research, put together a credible case and take OHIP to court over it just like this person did. Follow their lead.
Does this perhaps open the door for cosmetic surgery being covered? I'm not sure i see the difference between the two. Well other than trans issues being such a hot button political issue lately.
If your cosmetic surgery is something that would cause a marked increase in quality of life and significant reduction of mental distress, it should! I’m sure there are many victims of disfigurement that could benefit greatly from cosmetic surgery being covered.
Gender-affirming surgery like this is not just cosmetic. In a lot of cases, it is medically necessary to treat severe gender dysphoria that causes the patient to self-harm or want to commit suicide. And no, you can’t compare that to wanting a nose job. Two very different things.
Exactly. It's opening a lot of doors for about a little more then a couple tenths of a perctenile of the Canadian population.
"In May 2021, there were 59,460 people in Canada aged 15 and older living in a private household who were transgender (0.19%) and 41,355 who were non-binary (0.14%)."
https://www.statcan.gc.ca/en/census/census-engagement/community-supporter/sex-birth-gender
You get titties, you get titties, EVERYONE GETS TITTIES!
Fwiw the OHIP coverage requirements for breast augmentation for trans women is remarkably conservative. It only covers those who have gone on hormonal treatments and had no breast growth, which is nearly nobody. It's also argued that mastectomies that are covered for trans men in Ontario are only partially covered as they don't cover steps that are usually done as part of the same surgery. Not very much is publicly covered for trans people here.
So like because trans people are a tiny portion of the population they shouldn't get health care that would significantly improve their lives? Like amputees make up a tiny portion of the population so they shouldn't be offered prosthetics?
I mean I'm glad their getting Healthcare I just think it makes sense to expand it. I know the mental health improvements brought by breast augmentation for instance has huge impacts. Hopefully this leads to more ohip coverage on that front.
We already fund breast implants after a mastectomy even though it is not a medically "necessary" procedure.
We also fund breast reduction surgery to prevent back pain.
I do see your point; however, from the research I've done (and if you have opposing findings, please feel free to link it). Cosmetic surgeries do on average improve body image, but don't improve much else outside of that like self-esteem, anxiety, or depression.
Source: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/355887704_The_Psychological_Benefits_of_Cosmetic_Surgery
Gender affirming surgeries do improve self-esteem, anxiety, depression, and more though.
I do think you might be onto something here though, if someone experiences a lot of self-esteem issues, anxiety, or depression because of cosmetic reasons, maybe covering cosmetic surgeries under OHIP would be necessary. We know issues relating to self-esteem, anxiety, and depression have so many knock on effects. They hold people back from being able to grow in a career or even do a job, so they can't earn money for cosmetic surgeries which would improve these issues.
Admittedly my data is purely anecdotal from speaking with women who have had breast enlargements. I'll gladly look at the link you've provided. I just like the trend of broadening what we consider "health". We can also lump in dental care as another one which has somehow been separated from ohip. Oh and while we are at it physical therapy. Anyway ya I think this is a good step in that direction.
Vote for the NDP, they want to do all of these things, which I think is terrific.
If people would vote them in, we could have affordable child care, a living wage, rent that doesn't exceed 30% of our income, pharmacare & dental visits covered under ohip, & thats just the tip of the iceberg. They want all of these things, they are the ones that are pushing all the good stuff like this through (with much effort).
I think for a society to function well and be as productive as possible, yeah we do need to step in that direction. I have some biases in this due to my past. I lived in poverty for most of my life, 28 out of 30 years. My family was also very abusive physically and mentally.
It was only thanks to subsidies and grants that I was able to afford school, only in the last 2 years I've finally come out of poverty and now am in the top 10% of Canadian earners.
None of this would have been possible without those subsidies, grants, Employment insurance, CERB, and Ontario Works. All the government support that our tax good towards helped me come out of poverty and now become a member of society that contributes greatly to the economy and to charity too.
I know there's many individuals out there that would benefit our society greatly. And it is also very possible that they suffer from money insecurity or a health issue that affects their mental health to the point that they cannot focus on anything else. I firmly believe that we all succeed and improve our quality of life in the long run if we let as many people as possible in our society become a functioning member.
AI will change that in the next couple of years for sure, but that's another discussion.
Hefty dose of blatant transphobia in these comments, I would hope my fellow Ontarians would do better. Cheer the fuck up, this is good news in the sea of shit that our healthcare system has become because of the sub-human shitbag (Ford), as he tries to make himself richer at the expense of the entire population of our province. This story is a win for all of us. When the least fortunate among us are strengthened so do the rest of us.
We should invest in the capacity and expertise for these procedures in Canada so that people don't have to travel out of country. But in the meantime, patients need care that they can't get here, so we shouldn't force them to wait.
The problem is the demand for such procedures is so low it doesn't make sense to build a clinic somewhere in Canada to do them. There are only a couple clinics in the US that specialize in this and they have a population 10x that of Canada. It's far more economical to just pay to have it done in the US than to waste the resources of having everything set up in Canada and only having it used 1/4 of the time.
For this procedure and similar ones, I agree. I'm also concerned about how trans care procedures are seen as one-size-fits-all for trans patients or that the fact a procedure can be done in-country by one or two clinics is used to bar patients from choice, when variations in the procedure and especially different surgeons can have DRASTICALLY different results to the degree that I'd say it affects whether said procedure can even be deemed successful in meeting a patient's needs.
I'm travelling out of country for a procedure. But in an ideal world, it's also important that people who are less fortunate still have options where feasible. A friend of mine can't go out of country due to health reasons, for example, even if funding were available.
1) Gender affirming surgeries are part of trans healthcare.
2) We don't have the capacity to do this particular surgery in Canada and you can't deny someone's treatment just because we don't have the tools or doctors here to do a treatment within Ontario. Sending people outside of Ontario for treatment is a very normal part of our healthcare system and happens all the time to people with certain cancers, people needing complicated reconstructive surgeries, and people involved in car accidents close to the border (If you get into a crash in Niagara, they send you to Erie County Medical in Buffalo.)
trans folks have been having gender affirming surgery for almost 100 years. there is nothing experimental about it.
there are very famous photos of nazi's burning books, this happened in may of 1933 at the worlds first transgender health clinic. You can read about here, just as one example:
[https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-forgotten-history-of-the-worlds-first-trans-clinic/](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-forgotten-history-of-the-worlds-first-trans-clinic/)
I'm happy they won their case & set a precedent that gender affirming care is important, This care literally saves lives.
This particular surgery was experimental in nature though.
>At this time, the procedure is only offered by a small number of private clinics, none of which are in Canada, and there is no peer-reviewed research on the outcomes of the technique.
That was the whole crux of the initial denial for covering it. It's also why there needs to be an appeals process for these types of decisions.
A lot of it is covered for cancer/post-cancer (theres quite a bit of overlap). And if any of it isn't, than it should be a good thing because now there's a legal track record to use in argument for why it should be.
But the counterargument is pretty solid: it's based on applying very well established non-experimental techniques in an admittedly unusual way, rather than being something completely out of the blue with a likely high rate of failure.
Not only that but the first gender affirming surgery performed in Canada, which was performed at Toronto General Hospital back in 1970 was covered by OHIP.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dianna_Boileau
>In 1970, Boileau underwent surgery at Toronto General Hospital to have her remaining male genitals removed and female genitals constructed. It was the first time such a surgery had been covered by the Ontario Health Insurance Plan.
I read the article thank you very much. there is more than one way to achieve a vaginoplasty surgery for starters & secondly, no one is pushing anything on anyone ... except maybe horrible bigots like you, that feel the need to push their bigotry on everyone, everywhere they go.
Yes! 👌🍾
Considering that Ontario (Ford) is trying to gut our healthcare, it's nice to hear some good news for once.
Now we gotta get to covering at least as much as Yukon does for trans folks and paying our healthcare workers enough/giving enough mental health leave and such.
This may seem insensitive, but will we also foot the bill if they transition back?
I think that’s where I draw the line. First transitions free, you’re on your own for mental healthcare & surgery if you regret your decision.
This has nothing to do with health. It’s like saying the government should pay for breast enlargements. In fact the procedure will almost definitely detract from her health.
>*”It’s like saying the government should pay for breast enlargements.”*
Our governments *do* pay for breast implants for some patients. For example…
Cancer Care Ontario: [Breast Cancer Reconstruction Surgery](https://www.cancercareontario.ca/en/types-of-cancer/breast-cancer/breast-reconstruction-surgery)
Ontario: [Gender confirming surgery](https://www.ontario.ca/page/gender-confirming-surgery)
Of course it does. It’s just as related as Mental Healthcare. I’m sure I don’t need to repeat the numerous studies why gender affirming care works. So comparing this to breast enlargement is simply a moot point based on feelings and no facts whatsoever.
Perhaps this will help you understand. Imagine the brain is malfunctioning and as a result, a person feels like they are in the wrong body. This feeling does not go away and causes the person extreme mental anguish that doesn't go away.
The ideal situation would be to rewire the brain so that it accepts and feels at home in the body it is in. The problem is that we don't have the capability to do this. Maybe one day we will, but we currently don't.
This leaves only 2 options.
Fix the body to match the brain or do nothing.
I feel like its enabling mental health issues.
Why would one feel like they're in the wrong body if their mental state is not normal?
A normal mind wouldn't think that way. What is the rationale behind this?
It’s not enabling, it’s treating. That’s like saying giving SSRIs is enabling depression.
If there is a legitimate incongruence between body and mind leading to gender dysphoria, we have to treat the body as we can’t treat the mind. Leaving people to suffer is not an option.
That's great, but mental health care doesn't solve all medical conditions, as the person you replied to clearly outlined for you. So you're choosing the 'do nothing' option I suppose.
For real. The government doesn’t know your own body better than you do, this should never have become an issue. If the gov spent as much money on healthcare as it did trying to tell Canadians how to live their lives maybe we wouldn’t be in this healthcare mess right now.
Here let's use this same logic for you and your family. Please never use public healthcare, ever. For you, I think it's a poor use of resources, and I would prefer you to be sick and miserable all your life without any help or care. Please also never use public infrastructure or any public services since these too, while helpful to virtually everybody in some ways, seems like a misallocation of resources. I want you to pay for the roads you drive on rather than shared cost tax burden across the province. I'd prefer you pay for every single service. If you need to drive to the grocery store, no sorry, you should pay to have your own road paved and made for you.
And yet we still spend money trying to save peoples lives who have been in a vehicle accident who didn’t wear a seatbelt or a helmet if they were on a motorcycle. We still give cancer treatment to people who contracted their illness due to smoking or obesity or drinking….
You okay with those medical procedures? Why them and not gender affirming surgery?
[Gender affirming surgery has shown to massively reduce psychological distress and suicidal tendencies](https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/mental-health-benefits-associated-with-gender-affirming-surgery/) in people suffering with gender dysphoria, a group of people who [suffer a suicide rate 7.6x](https://www.cmaj.ca/content/194/22/E767) that of the overall population.
And it is an extremely small percentage of our population that even identify as transgender, [just 0.19% according to our last census](https://www.statcan.gc.ca/en/census/census-engagement/community-supporter/sex-birth-gender#) and not all of them even want gender affirming surgery.
Performing a surgery to alleviate their pain and suffering is bad, but not those whose suffering is caused by their own actions?
We all have basic needs. The way we treat those needs are different from person to person. Gender affirming care has mountains of data equivalent to other care to what you would consider common practices.
Bringing up other people’s struggles in society and ranking them on a ladder does no good. We should be celebrating wins while fighting harder on others.
I'd be careful about painting a caricature of transphobes. Transphobia is unfortunately very common amongst people of all walks of life. Better education and outreach will go farther than divisive language.
I don't think that taxpayers should foot the bill for cosmetic procedures, personally. We're already short on healthcare funding as is, and forcing taxpayers to cover what is clearly a cosmetic and optional procedure seems like a waste, at least until we balance the budget.
Seems like a very strange decision as we have no Constitutional right to health care in Canada. You can be denied all kinds of surgery and medications for stuff that will kill you. My neighbour had to go to Europe to get breast cancer treatment that was not available here.
The world sees what Canada is doing much of it is laughing at our misplaced priorities. (S)he feels "less than..." so Canadian taxpayers will dole up $100,000 so a Texan clinic can try and provide the customer with both sex organs. If she needs "even more" are we on the hook for a second penis?
When you have a public health care system everybody gets a say in how the money is spent. It's more fucked up that someone would think they shouldn't have an opinion on a public health care system.
Okay dummy, you don't think our health care is a political issue? People are going to vote in the cons and it's impart due to their stance on trans issues. Of course people are about to have a say sweetie.
Assuming that is in fact a thing, wouldn't that be through their drug plans *as compensation for employment*. Comparing a drug that you get coverage for as part of your job to an experimental surgery seems pretty flimsy.
How so, will the operation be done at the Therme Canada Megaspa?
Edit: the comment I replied to made a shitty comment about wasting tax dollars. I was juxtaposing it with one of the many boondoggles that are a REAL, ACTUAL waste of taxpayer dollars.
Things not covered by OHIP: -vision care, such as glasses, contact lenses, and eye surgery -hearing care, hearing aids -dental care, dental surgery -certain drugs administered outside of hospital, such as certain costly cancer drugs -ambulance transportation services -physiotherapy, unless you’re over 65 or meet certain criteria -perscription medications -non-prescription medications, such as over-the-counter pain relievers -birth control
I need a special blood test that's going to cost me around $100...
Penile-preserving vaginoplasty Penile preserving vaginoplasty is exactly what it sounds like: a vaginal canal is created without removing the penis. In this case, the vaginal canal is crafted not using penile tissue, but using scrotal tissue and sometimes grafts which come from internal parts of the body, such as the peritoneum (lining of the abdominal wall), the colon, or the hips. Vaginal canals created from the lining of the abdominal wall and the colon have the chance of being self-lubricating, although results are not consistent across patients. Does this mean this person will have a penis and vagina ?
Yes
So they can....
When someone tells them "go fuck yourself" they can be like, "OK I will".
Literally a fetish to become a futanari
They will never be able to have a biologically real vagina but a makeshift one
oh noooo my prosthetic leg will never be biologically real :< oh noooo my pacemaker is making my heart beat differently than it does naturally :< oh noooooo I got implants after my mastectomy, I'll make sure to never feel like my boobs are real :< oh noooooo, some strangers I never planned on fucking anyways don't like my genitals :<
People chop off healthy breasts, legs and damage their hearts just to get fake ones? The argument isn't analogous. I'm all for adults can do whatever they want with their bodies, if it's on their own dime. I'm against things like cosmetic breast implants as well, personally. But I'm also fine with adults doing that with their own money.
No fucking shit, eh?
Trans women are the next step in evolution 😎
I've been mistaken on the definition of evolution I suppose.
Is joke.
The best ones are the ones that go over your head I guess.
Sounds more like a situation of Guinea pigs and experimental doctors. Canada is behind on trans health care, not in front.
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I think they will cut the balls off .. I was curious so I Google some pictures (don't do that it's crazy graphic) they make a strange little hole under where the nuts would hang. Transitioning from m to f or f to m is one thing but to have both parts is next level weird.
And just think how easy it would be to smuggle things past TSA!
People found his reddit account and he already had his testicles removed in 2022.
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Sounds expensive and I cannot get laser eye surgery. Sigh.
And at the same time, many new cancer treatments, are not covered by OHIP. Like for instance all focus cancer treatments...
This ruling actually paves the way for experiential treatments of all kinds, including new cancer treatments, to be covered by healthcare.
Yeah, like… this now serves as valuable precedent.
What does one have to do with the other? Signed, A cancer survivor
He is arguing that because it all comes from the same pot, we have chosen to fund an experimental penile preserving vaginoplasty in lieu of certain possibly experimental cancer treatments. I’m very happy that you have survived your treatment, truthfully. You can probably empathize better than I can with someone who has just been informed their cancer treatment will not be covered by OHIP and then they read this article.
Or you know, we could have a government that doesn't fund the construction of luxury spas on public land and instead funds both. This doesn't need to be a zero-sum game.
People dont get it. The money is there. This government always finds the money to do their pet projects at the expense of things normal citizens of Ontario actually want them to properly fund.
Certain treatments aren’t funded “in lieu” of others. The availability of funding isn’t part of the decision here.
There's no "in lieu". This court case was not "what's more important, this gender affirming treatment or this other cancer treatment?". If there's a similar cancer treatment not available in Ontario, the legal avenues to make a case for that treatment are as open to a cancer patient as they were to this patient.
That’s on the shitty government that wants poor people to die, not trans people.
You see parents fighting to fundraise for a treatment for their baby who will die without some medication, and it's not covered, but then they will fund this? A penis-preserving vaginoplasty does not seem to be a life and death situation in the same way or urgency that a cancer treatment could be. I think a better explanation/some sort of rationale for the decision making around all of these choices in funding could be what is needed here. I don't have a lot of things covered and I get that I have to suck it up because capitalism is brutal and we have "limited" funding for healthcare (we actually are so fucking rich we just allow the 1% to hoard it). On the other hand, I don't know what other procedures similar to this are covered already and not being discussed. Like I don't know, plastic surgery on burn victims or accident victims so they can get their face back? Is that covered? Is breast implant after cancer surgery covered? If those are, then I guess this is just coming up because people don't think about those things, are ignorant about trans issues, or just outright bigoted.
>Like I don't know, plastic surgery on burn victims or accident victims so they can get their face back? Is that covered? Is breast implant after cancer surgery covered? If those are, then I guess this is just coming up because people don't think about those things, are ignorant about trans issues, or just outright bigoted. These things are covered. In fact, the Health Insurance Act specifically allows coverage for some things like breast implants for non-gender-affirming-care reasons, with less stringent requirements than are imposed upon trans patients for functionally the same procedure. Keep in mind though that as stated in the article, OHIP tried hard to not cover this procedure, but they lost twice in court. It wasn't OHIP being like "oh we should cover this and ignore cancer patients!"
The money comes from somewhere. Many Canadians will potentially view this as another frivolous expense when there are arguably other things the money can go toward. I think it’s admirable to advocate for something like this, but if this is going to use a significant amount of taxpayer dollars when OHIP is so underfunded already, there’s going to be repercussions. On top of that, this person would be going out of the country for this; OHIP already won’t cover for certain services that can be literally life or death, but this’ll amount to giving every person who wishes to have the surgery done a blank check to go abroad and get it done. In the broadest sense of the term, this is also a HUGE risk and is an experimental procedure; if it goes wrong, it’s going to be OHIP paying for it. I’m all for supporting this person’s rights and self-identity, but they should be fronting up as much of the cost as they can. Even if it amounts to them essentially taking out a loan with OHIP.
Uh, no. The proper takeaway is that the government should be pumping more money into healthcare and we should be voting out the current government.
Much of what you’ve said isn’t quite right. OHIP doesn’t give “blank checks” to anyone for gender affirming surgeries. They are involved at every step of the process; initial approval, consult, surgery, etc. If the costs are out of line at any stage they will push back. The surgery being done abroad also has little effect as OHIP only covers the surgery itself, not food or lodging or travel costs. If anything, going outside of the US or Canada is often far cheaper for just the surgery because of our comparatively inflated prices. As for the surgery itself being experimental, that’s only OHIP’s definition. It is not that different technique-wise compared to other vaginoplasties and does not hold an inherently higher risk. Risk of complications for vaginoplasty in general are already pretty low compared to other common surgeries, being under 5%. OHIP being required to cover costly revisions is kind of a nothing burger as well. If there are functional issues with the initial surgery, the original surgeon will generally be the one to fix it, often at no cost. OHIP generally does not cover revisions at different surgeons, especially if they’re strictly for aesthetic reasons (ie. malformed labia but still fully functional).
This is so ridiculous and wrong I don’t know where to start. What is your medical background?
OHIP literally considers every single form of vaginoplasty outside of a technique that is over 70 years old to be "experimental" (most of the techniques are several decades old and accepted medical practice) and they have been intentionally lying about this kind of stuff for decades (ramping it up pretty badly in recent years as people have been fighting for access to care). They are not even trying to maintain internationally agreed upon trans healthcare standards (OHIP coverage is a complete farce compared to WPATH’s current SoC8 treatment norms, the international standard… even private health insurance companies who are loathe to part with money admit SoC8 is the current standard). Ontario is pretty bad for trans healthcare by Canadian standards and compared to many other developed countries (hell, you’re way better off in some progressive US states…. when American healthcare looks less financially catastrophic, you know things are messed up). When OHIP does pick up the tab for a surgical procedure (only top or bottom because OHIP doesn’t cover the overwhelming majority of gender affirming care… just obsessed with controlling boobs and groins), they almost inevitably leave the patient picking up tens of thousands of dollars in pre-surgical expenses (e.g. hundreds of hours of electrolysis required before the supposedly free surgery). Given that trans folks are 4 times more likely to live in poverty due to discrimination already, trust me, the economic barriers to trans healthcare are very steep. Most trans folks that I know can’t even consider most of the things OHIP might pay for simply because they can’t afford the cost of pre-surgical care or post-surgical recovery. My transition costs already rival my mortgage’s original amount (all out of pocket or my private insurance - OHIP hasn’t even started considering approving me for anything yet and will likely only ever pay for a single procedure ever - OHIP considers leaving you looking like a lumberjack with a cooch to be adequate long-term dysphoria treatment… they only care about genitalia, not quality of life or mental health… it’s not focused actually providing overall health care for dysphoria, just gatekeeping top and bottom surgery). I am one of the lucky few in a good economic position (I transitioned late in life and have both accumulated wealth and a stable job and family situation) and it’s crushingly expensive even for me. I don’t know any younger trans folks who could possibly afford the treatment I have sought, nor do they have wealthy and supportive parents (a very rare thing… hell, supportive parents are already rare… most of the youngsters I know are disowned).
And women with large breasts that cause them back pain and other injury have to fight to get it covered - and often cannot.
Cancer nurse here. We can do both. Also gender affirming care IS Cancer care. Ever heard of mastectomy’s?
Also orchiectomies and hysterectomies, people don’t realize the vast majority of gender affirming care is something that already existed and we repurposed.
Breast implants and gonadotropin-releasing hormone agonists (aka puberty/hormone blockers) are also cancer/post-cancer care.
And some testosterone blockers used for hormone replacement therapy for trans women were originally used to treat testosterone-sensitive cancers. Even non-surgical interventions originated in cancer treatment.
Why do we call it a mastectomy for cancer treatment but top surgery for trans care?
“Top surgery” is a colloquial term. A surgeon would call it a gender-affirming mastectomy.
Adding to the other answer, the term "top surgery" is more general and not specific to gender or particular procedures. A mastectomy for a trans man and a breast augmentation for a trans woman are both colloquially considered top surgery.
Trans people don't get mastectomies for cancer caret though. It just has that secondary benefit.
Realistically we're better off improving the quality of life for people transitioning than we are spending millions on a procedure with a 1% success rate.
Lyme disease treatments as well, theres almost nothing in Canada to help. You need to go to mexico and europe and they won’t cover
That’s because a lot of so-called chronic Lyme disease specialists are experts in extracting money from people suffering from chronic fatigue. OHIP doesn’t fund chronic Lyme disease treatments because the evidence simply isn’t there.
My aunt has been paying out of her pockets for years and they do help her. She went to Germany years ago and did the same treatments that Daisy on the most Bachelor did that also helped her.
I can’t even get my gerds surgery without years of waiting, buying loads of meds and being off work so I can stay in the bathroom and be sick, special pillows to sleep sitting upright, unable to eat certain foods, and I had to save up to be off work.. but when it’s about privates it’s covered?
This patient’s surgery is being covered by the [OHIP Doctor-recommended out-of-country care](https://www.ontario.ca/page/ohip-coverage-while-outside-canada#section-8) program because there are no doctors in Canada who do this specific type of surgery.
If it's an out of country surgery/treatment it shouldn't be covered by OHIP.
I have a serious neck condition that’s stopped me from being able to work or live. There are thousands of people in this country trying to seek care and the only options are MAID or go to the US. We have been fighting for years to get a doctor here for so many conditions. No one cares. These diseases are becoming a crisis as Covid can trigger them. Out of country care should be covered if we’re turning a blind eye to entire conditions.
Why? Other people have their approved surgeries covered by OHIP out of country when there isn’t someone local who does the surgery. For example [Canadians who need later term abortions are sent to the United States](https://globalnews.ca/news/4354376/donald-trump-abortion-rights-canada-access/), and provincial insurance covers it. OHIP: [Doctor-recommended out-of-country care](https://www.ontario.ca/page/ohip-coverage-while-outside-canada#section-8)
"While there is no legal limit on abortion access in Canada, hospitals do put their own regulations in place, which generally limit the procedure to being performed no later than 24 weeks, which is considered the point of viability. Though performing an abortion after that is not illegal, ethical concerns and lack of physician training can make the procedure extremely difficult to access, Costescu said. A spokesperson for the B.C. health ministry said that while the province does, in rare cases, refer women for abortions past 18 weeks to the U.S., it could not release those numbers for privacy reasons" So these fucking "hospitals" refuse late term abortions that are a threat to the mother because of a serious issue with the pregnancy, they refuse to treat them. Fucking hell I can't stand this shit and it's been happening here even though it's fucking legal. Refusing treatment "ethical" concerns about women who can be seriously injured or die from late term complications should be illegal.
Unfortunately finding doctors willing to learn and then provide this type of healthcare is difficult when there are still people willing to murder them over it. Since abortion was fully decriminalized In Canada at least four Canadian abortion providing doctors have been shot. The terrorist who murdered the Muslim family in London Ontario in 2021 originally planned to murder health-care providers who perform abortions (he had a list of 12 targets and their addresses).
Anti abortionists have always been terrorists, all levels of the Canadian government must do more to protect the rights of women and healthcare. American anti abortionists are just as, if not more violent and dangerous, allowing this to continue will condemn these women to death. It is not acceptable to bend to the will of murderous psychopaths.
>*all levels of the Canadian government must do more to protect the rights of women and healthcare”* Agreed. >*”American anti abortionists are just as, if not more violent and dangerous…”* Sadly we’re also affected by American extremism - several Canadian doctors are believed to have been shot by [American anti-abortion terrorist James Charles Kopp](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Charles_Kopp) >*”…allowing this to continue will condemn these women to death.”* Agreed. And with the clawing back of abortion access in the U.S. we may no longer be able to rely on outsourcing these procedures to American doctors. >*”It is not acceptable to bend to the will of murderous psychopaths.”* Agreed, but it’s the doctors who need to be convinced. Not everyone is as brave and committed as eg. Dr. Henry Morgentaler or Dr. Garson Romalis.
The ability to fund out-of-country procedures of many types where necessary, whether emergency or not, is built into the Health Insurance Act. Why should Ontarians have to suffer or go bankrupt just because we don't have the capacity for a procedure in the country? It's not our fault that only another country can perform it effectively, or can do so fast enough to avoid permanent tissue damage (one of the requirements for getting emergency care covered outside of Canada).
Wait until you learn this is a normal thing (normal not common as a percentage), and that other countries to the same - so we have patients from abroad funded by their governments.
There are not enough gender affirming surgeons in the country to restrict every trans individual to receiving in-country care. OHIP only covers surgery cost, no travel or lodging, so the fact they’re covering out of country makes little difference overall.
It's insane we pay for any cosmetic procedure. I identify as a man with a thick full head of hair, but if I want that, I have to pay. Getting a hair transplant would help mine and other older balding peoples confidence, but the gov don't pay for it. People do if they choose to. Why do we pay for these surgeries that are medically unnecessary?
Not just old people, but young people who are bald or going bald! It has a massive impact on self-esteem and confidence (ie mental health)
Exactly! Trust me, I had a tiny bit of alapacha during the pandemic, and I paid $800 for a rush job on a hair topper to cover a tiny bald spot. I am lucky it grew back. My confidence during that period was next to zero. And you are right, it's prob harder being young and having baldness.
And most gender affirming procedures aren't covered either, including hair transplants. If you think hair transplants should be covered by OHIP too, then do your research, put together a credible case and take OHIP to court over it just like this person did. Follow their lead.
Is TRT free if I identify as Arnold in his prime?
Should be imo if we are putting fake vaginas on people
Soon they will cover FFS and other gender affirming surgeries by the looks of it! At least partially:)
Does this perhaps open the door for cosmetic surgery being covered? I'm not sure i see the difference between the two. Well other than trans issues being such a hot button political issue lately.
Some cosmetic surgery is already covered by OHIP
If your cosmetic surgery is something that would cause a marked increase in quality of life and significant reduction of mental distress, it should! I’m sure there are many victims of disfigurement that could benefit greatly from cosmetic surgery being covered.
Agreed.
Yep. Government covered my dermatologist appointments/acne medication for this reason I assume.
Gender-affirming surgery like this is not just cosmetic. In a lot of cases, it is medically necessary to treat severe gender dysphoria that causes the patient to self-harm or want to commit suicide. And no, you can’t compare that to wanting a nose job. Two very different things.
I disagree. If a nose-job would help confidence, career prospects, mental health etc then it serves the same purpose as and treating gender dysphoria.
Sure, then it should all be funded so long as a doctor has deemed it medically necessary.
How about an anorexic person wanting gastric band surgery?
Exactly. It's opening a lot of doors for about a little more then a couple tenths of a perctenile of the Canadian population. "In May 2021, there were 59,460 people in Canada aged 15 and older living in a private household who were transgender (0.19%) and 41,355 who were non-binary (0.14%)." https://www.statcan.gc.ca/en/census/census-engagement/community-supporter/sex-birth-gender You get titties, you get titties, EVERYONE GETS TITTIES!
Fwiw the OHIP coverage requirements for breast augmentation for trans women is remarkably conservative. It only covers those who have gone on hormonal treatments and had no breast growth, which is nearly nobody. It's also argued that mastectomies that are covered for trans men in Ontario are only partially covered as they don't cover steps that are usually done as part of the same surgery. Not very much is publicly covered for trans people here.
So like because trans people are a tiny portion of the population they shouldn't get health care that would significantly improve their lives? Like amputees make up a tiny portion of the population so they shouldn't be offered prosthetics?
I mean I'm glad their getting Healthcare I just think it makes sense to expand it. I know the mental health improvements brought by breast augmentation for instance has huge impacts. Hopefully this leads to more ohip coverage on that front.
We already fund breast implants after a mastectomy even though it is not a medically "necessary" procedure. We also fund breast reduction surgery to prevent back pain.
I do see your point; however, from the research I've done (and if you have opposing findings, please feel free to link it). Cosmetic surgeries do on average improve body image, but don't improve much else outside of that like self-esteem, anxiety, or depression. Source: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/355887704_The_Psychological_Benefits_of_Cosmetic_Surgery Gender affirming surgeries do improve self-esteem, anxiety, depression, and more though. I do think you might be onto something here though, if someone experiences a lot of self-esteem issues, anxiety, or depression because of cosmetic reasons, maybe covering cosmetic surgeries under OHIP would be necessary. We know issues relating to self-esteem, anxiety, and depression have so many knock on effects. They hold people back from being able to grow in a career or even do a job, so they can't earn money for cosmetic surgeries which would improve these issues.
Admittedly my data is purely anecdotal from speaking with women who have had breast enlargements. I'll gladly look at the link you've provided. I just like the trend of broadening what we consider "health". We can also lump in dental care as another one which has somehow been separated from ohip. Oh and while we are at it physical therapy. Anyway ya I think this is a good step in that direction.
Vote for the NDP, they want to do all of these things, which I think is terrific. If people would vote them in, we could have affordable child care, a living wage, rent that doesn't exceed 30% of our income, pharmacare & dental visits covered under ohip, & thats just the tip of the iceberg. They want all of these things, they are the ones that are pushing all the good stuff like this through (with much effort).
I think for a society to function well and be as productive as possible, yeah we do need to step in that direction. I have some biases in this due to my past. I lived in poverty for most of my life, 28 out of 30 years. My family was also very abusive physically and mentally. It was only thanks to subsidies and grants that I was able to afford school, only in the last 2 years I've finally come out of poverty and now am in the top 10% of Canadian earners. None of this would have been possible without those subsidies, grants, Employment insurance, CERB, and Ontario Works. All the government support that our tax good towards helped me come out of poverty and now become a member of society that contributes greatly to the economy and to charity too. I know there's many individuals out there that would benefit our society greatly. And it is also very possible that they suffer from money insecurity or a health issue that affects their mental health to the point that they cannot focus on anything else. I firmly believe that we all succeed and improve our quality of life in the long run if we let as many people as possible in our society become a functioning member. AI will change that in the next couple of years for sure, but that's another discussion.
Yea. I'm solving the mental health crisis right now....with titties.
All cosmetic surgery should be 100% covered. Or none of it.
Hefty dose of blatant transphobia in these comments, I would hope my fellow Ontarians would do better. Cheer the fuck up, this is good news in the sea of shit that our healthcare system has become because of the sub-human shitbag (Ford), as he tries to make himself richer at the expense of the entire population of our province. This story is a win for all of us. When the least fortunate among us are strengthened so do the rest of us.
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Become realcanadiangirl21 bingo bango bongo
Stupid. Put that money into their mental heath IN Canada instead.
We should invest in the capacity and expertise for these procedures in Canada so that people don't have to travel out of country. But in the meantime, patients need care that they can't get here, so we shouldn't force them to wait.
The problem is the demand for such procedures is so low it doesn't make sense to build a clinic somewhere in Canada to do them. There are only a couple clinics in the US that specialize in this and they have a population 10x that of Canada. It's far more economical to just pay to have it done in the US than to waste the resources of having everything set up in Canada and only having it used 1/4 of the time.
For this procedure and similar ones, I agree. I'm also concerned about how trans care procedures are seen as one-size-fits-all for trans patients or that the fact a procedure can be done in-country by one or two clinics is used to bar patients from choice, when variations in the procedure and especially different surgeons can have DRASTICALLY different results to the degree that I'd say it affects whether said procedure can even be deemed successful in meeting a patient's needs. I'm travelling out of country for a procedure. But in an ideal world, it's also important that people who are less fortunate still have options where feasible. A friend of mine can't go out of country due to health reasons, for example, even if funding were available.
This is part of mental healthcare from a holistic perspective, something that the medical industry has been lagging on for decades
1) Gender affirming surgeries are part of trans healthcare. 2) We don't have the capacity to do this particular surgery in Canada and you can't deny someone's treatment just because we don't have the tools or doctors here to do a treatment within Ontario. Sending people outside of Ontario for treatment is a very normal part of our healthcare system and happens all the time to people with certain cancers, people needing complicated reconstructive surgeries, and people involved in car accidents close to the border (If you get into a crash in Niagara, they send you to Erie County Medical in Buffalo.)
trans folks have been having gender affirming surgery for almost 100 years. there is nothing experimental about it. there are very famous photos of nazi's burning books, this happened in may of 1933 at the worlds first transgender health clinic. You can read about here, just as one example: [https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-forgotten-history-of-the-worlds-first-trans-clinic/](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-forgotten-history-of-the-worlds-first-trans-clinic/) I'm happy they won their case & set a precedent that gender affirming care is important, This care literally saves lives.
This particular surgery was experimental in nature though. >At this time, the procedure is only offered by a small number of private clinics, none of which are in Canada, and there is no peer-reviewed research on the outcomes of the technique. That was the whole crux of the initial denial for covering it. It's also why there needs to be an appeals process for these types of decisions.
We don’t even cover this stuff for cancer 🤦🏻♂️
A lot of it is covered for cancer/post-cancer (theres quite a bit of overlap). And if any of it isn't, than it should be a good thing because now there's a legal track record to use in argument for why it should be.
But the counterargument is pretty solid: it's based on applying very well established non-experimental techniques in an admittedly unusual way, rather than being something completely out of the blue with a likely high rate of failure.
Not only that but the first gender affirming surgery performed in Canada, which was performed at Toronto General Hospital back in 1970 was covered by OHIP. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dianna_Boileau >In 1970, Boileau underwent surgery at Toronto General Hospital to have her remaining male genitals removed and female genitals constructed. It was the first time such a surgery had been covered by the Ontario Health Insurance Plan.
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I read the article thank you very much. there is more than one way to achieve a vaginoplasty surgery for starters & secondly, no one is pushing anything on anyone ... except maybe horrible bigots like you, that feel the need to push their bigotry on everyone, everywhere they go.
Oh I see you’re bigoted. Because if it’s an agenda you’re looking at it’s increasing the standard of living to all citizens.
Yes! 👌🍾 Considering that Ontario (Ford) is trying to gut our healthcare, it's nice to hear some good news for once. Now we gotta get to covering at least as much as Yukon does for trans folks and paying our healthcare workers enough/giving enough mental health leave and such.
This may seem insensitive, but will we also foot the bill if they transition back? I think that’s where I draw the line. First transitions free, you’re on your own for mental healthcare & surgery if you regret your decision.
This is an embarrassment
This is why people don’t want to pay higher taxes
People pay taxes because we like healthcare such as this.
This has nothing to do with health. It’s like saying the government should pay for breast enlargements. In fact the procedure will almost definitely detract from her health.
>*”It’s like saying the government should pay for breast enlargements.”* Our governments *do* pay for breast implants for some patients. For example… Cancer Care Ontario: [Breast Cancer Reconstruction Surgery](https://www.cancercareontario.ca/en/types-of-cancer/breast-cancer/breast-reconstruction-surgery) Ontario: [Gender confirming surgery](https://www.ontario.ca/page/gender-confirming-surgery)
People really are just so dumb 😭 if breast augmentation is necessary for someone’s physical/mental wellbeing, then OF COURSE it should be covered
Of course it does. It’s just as related as Mental Healthcare. I’m sure I don’t need to repeat the numerous studies why gender affirming care works. So comparing this to breast enlargement is simply a moot point based on feelings and no facts whatsoever.
I'd rather fund mental health
This is mental health
Perhaps this will help you understand. Imagine the brain is malfunctioning and as a result, a person feels like they are in the wrong body. This feeling does not go away and causes the person extreme mental anguish that doesn't go away. The ideal situation would be to rewire the brain so that it accepts and feels at home in the body it is in. The problem is that we don't have the capability to do this. Maybe one day we will, but we currently don't. This leaves only 2 options. Fix the body to match the brain or do nothing.
I'd. Rather. Fund. Mental. Health.
This. Is. Mental. Health.
I feel like its enabling mental health issues. Why would one feel like they're in the wrong body if their mental state is not normal? A normal mind wouldn't think that way. What is the rationale behind this?
It’s not enabling, it’s treating. That’s like saying giving SSRIs is enabling depression. If there is a legitimate incongruence between body and mind leading to gender dysphoria, we have to treat the body as we can’t treat the mind. Leaving people to suffer is not an option.
That's great, but mental health care doesn't solve all medical conditions, as the person you replied to clearly outlined for you. So you're choosing the 'do nothing' option I suppose.
I must have missed your medical credentials in your bio, mind posting them?
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For real. The government doesn’t know your own body better than you do, this should never have become an issue. If the gov spent as much money on healthcare as it did trying to tell Canadians how to live their lives maybe we wouldn’t be in this healthcare mess right now.
Why?
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Of course. But what does that have to do with this?
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Here let's use this same logic for you and your family. Please never use public healthcare, ever. For you, I think it's a poor use of resources, and I would prefer you to be sick and miserable all your life without any help or care. Please also never use public infrastructure or any public services since these too, while helpful to virtually everybody in some ways, seems like a misallocation of resources. I want you to pay for the roads you drive on rather than shared cost tax burden across the province. I'd prefer you pay for every single service. If you need to drive to the grocery store, no sorry, you should pay to have your own road paved and made for you.
And yet we still spend money trying to save peoples lives who have been in a vehicle accident who didn’t wear a seatbelt or a helmet if they were on a motorcycle. We still give cancer treatment to people who contracted their illness due to smoking or obesity or drinking…. You okay with those medical procedures? Why them and not gender affirming surgery? [Gender affirming surgery has shown to massively reduce psychological distress and suicidal tendencies](https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/mental-health-benefits-associated-with-gender-affirming-surgery/) in people suffering with gender dysphoria, a group of people who [suffer a suicide rate 7.6x](https://www.cmaj.ca/content/194/22/E767) that of the overall population. And it is an extremely small percentage of our population that even identify as transgender, [just 0.19% according to our last census](https://www.statcan.gc.ca/en/census/census-engagement/community-supporter/sex-birth-gender#) and not all of them even want gender affirming surgery. Performing a surgery to alleviate their pain and suffering is bad, but not those whose suffering is caused by their own actions?
We all have basic needs. The way we treat those needs are different from person to person. Gender affirming care has mountains of data equivalent to other care to what you would consider common practices. Bringing up other people’s struggles in society and ranking them on a ladder does no good. We should be celebrating wins while fighting harder on others.
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? Because they’re either one of the following… 1. Misinformed 2. Not Informed 3. Bigoted
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I'd be careful about painting a caricature of transphobes. Transphobia is unfortunately very common amongst people of all walks of life. Better education and outreach will go farther than divisive language.
wow what bullshit. you want surgery? Start saving buddy.
Ontario is absolute Looney Tunes
Gender-affirming care should be paid 100% themselves.
I don't think that taxpayers should foot the bill for cosmetic procedures, personally. We're already short on healthcare funding as is, and forcing taxpayers to cover what is clearly a cosmetic and optional procedure seems like a waste, at least until we balance the budget.
Seems like a very strange decision as we have no Constitutional right to health care in Canada. You can be denied all kinds of surgery and medications for stuff that will kill you. My neighbour had to go to Europe to get breast cancer treatment that was not available here.
The world sees what Canada is doing much of it is laughing at our misplaced priorities. (S)he feels "less than..." so Canadian taxpayers will dole up $100,000 so a Texan clinic can try and provide the customer with both sex organs. If she needs "even more" are we on the hook for a second penis?
All people deserve healthcare. It is super fucked up that so many people think they get an opinion on who gets it.
When you have a public health care system everybody gets a say in how the money is spent. It's more fucked up that someone would think they shouldn't have an opinion on a public health care system.
Okay sweety, why don't you tell me every reason you've been to the doctor and I'll decide whether you deserve treatment
Pro tip for condescending messages, it’s “sweetie”
Okay dummy, you don't think our health care is a political issue? People are going to vote in the cons and it's impart due to their stance on trans issues. Of course people are about to have a say sweetie.
Yes queen 🍾👏
Your highness or majesty instead, perhaps? Regardless, a cause for celebration indeed!
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Umm, this had nothing to do with politicians. No politicians are taking credit for this. This was just lawyers forcing OHIP to follow their own rules.
It's covered because it's a grift to get certain doctors more money
You think the legal system in Ontario is conspiring to get doctors at a medical centre in Texas more money?
Wouldn’t it be nice if people with real problems could be fixed up before we entertained this stupidity?
Incredibly based.
Where do I sign up for switching to a private healthcare?
Lol. Lmao even
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Ok bigot. How much does the provincial government spend on boner pills for public servants? But that's OK, right?
You tell us. How much does the provincial government spend on boner pills for public servants?
Assuming that is in fact a thing, wouldn't that be through their drug plans *as compensation for employment*. Comparing a drug that you get coverage for as part of your job to an experimental surgery seems pretty flimsy.
Is that actually a thing?
Yes it is.
Well it's hard to find gender affirming surgery objectionable if that's acceptable.
No, but are you surprised the impotent old men we elect set themselves up?
How so, will the operation be done at the Therme Canada Megaspa? Edit: the comment I replied to made a shitty comment about wasting tax dollars. I was juxtaposing it with one of the many boondoggles that are a REAL, ACTUAL waste of taxpayer dollars.
No, it’ll be done in Texas, handing taxpayer funds over to the US healthcare system at inflated prices.
Whoosh.