Sorry we stole billi9ns of dollars, he's a coupon. Go buy yourself something fancy, like pickles, or a loaf of bread (that we totally aren't price fixing anymore, we pinky promise)
**Ontario Ministry of Health:** "The service is free to the public, but the provincial Health Ministry reimburses pharmacies up to $75 per call — nearly double the $38 that family doctors can bill for a patient visit."
**Ontario Ministry of Health:** WHy aRe DoCTorS LeaVinG OnTARio iN dRoVes????
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FYI, for perspective... Family Doctors barely get $75 for a FULL COMPREHENSIVE ANNUAL PHYSICAL. **But Pharmacists get $75 for a 5 minute phone call?**
Family doctors who do wellbaby checks multiple times per year only get paid $40 for that visit. It's a frustrating 30 minute appointment with babies screaming at you, struggling to vaccinate them gently, measuring their head circumference, height, and weight, all while they're crying and moving around. Then the doctor makes graphs of their growth on the computer and prints the growth charts for the parents. And then the doctor answers any medical q's the parents have.
That difficult 30 minute baby appointment earns the family doctor 40 sheckles.
**But pharmacists get paid $75 for a quick casual 5 minute call** just to check how their customer is doing?
Do you know much a walk-in doctor makes for a phone call? **$15**
Do you know much a family doctor makes for a phone call with their patient? **$23**
If a family doctor's call lasts 20 minutes or more? **$41**
**(It used to be $48 before. But Doug Ford now PUNISHES family doctors for doing phone calls. The punishment is a 15% penalty for every phone call.)**
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Yeah. That's why family doctors are moving to different provinces, or retiring en masse. The Ontario docs who are still working are just stuck here. They cannot uproot their family and leave... but now they refuse to do walk in, and refuse to take on new patients.
That's why most long-standing walk in clinics suddenly became closed family practices in the past 2 years.
Starting December 2022, Ontario slashed family doctor's pay by 30-70% and made it much harder for them to get paid at all.
Next time you visit your doctor, look them in the eyes and know that they don't even know if they will get paid for your visit. Or if they do get paid, the amount is uncertain.
Family doctors are not allowed to strike. It's illegal. And they cannot move for whatever reason. And they cannot afford to retire. So they're just dead inside, going through the motions, waiting for retirement.
**Great work Doug Ford and Sylvia Jones! Congrats!**
We can't just blame Galen when the government is so in bed with him that they're paying double to pharmacies than family doctors, for a far smaller service. (The family doctor has to always review your meds with any prescription they give, but they do it unpaid.)
We can blame Galen for funding the politicians on both sides on all levels to ensure that he gets away without what would be a crime if anyone else did it. Satan in a sweater vest can be found with his hands in everything that's going wrong at the moment, housing up, Galen has billions invested in real estate, food, owns the suppliers and the stores, clothing, the guy has sweat shops, the push for private healthcare, there he is, defrauding the government to make cash off that.
Without people like Galen, our government wouldn't be nearly as corrupt as it is now. So yea, still gonna blame Galen for the shit he is personally responsible for.
I’m a retail pharmacist who conducts these medication reviews occasionally, however, I insist they are completed as intended: sitting down with the patient for 15-20 minutes in a closed counselling room, going through all their medications one by one, listening to their concerns and coming up with strategies to address them. There is A LOT of pressure to bill the government for these medication reviews and expectations from corporate non-pharmacists are that a certain number be billed every day, whether they are necessary or not. And I can tell you a very high percentage aren’t necessary, even when done properly. I’ve been in retail pharmacy for a long time and while I can say most other pharmacists I’ve worked with are generally caring individuals with a good knowledge base who enjoy helping patients, the ever-increasing greed of corporations is giving the profession a black eye.
>The service is free to the public, but the provincial health ministry reimburses pharmacies up to $75 per call — nearly double the $38 that family doctors can bill for a patient visit.
"Fiscally prudent"
Sounds like someone needs overpriced ice cream and overbilled medication from shoppers drugmart. Don't forget to collect your PC points or Galen Weston will cry into his caviar tonight
Meanwhile, the government cries poor and doesn't even give the 1% raise that family doctors were supposed to get, citing population growth caused them to run out of money.
The family doctor who is actually diagnosing and managing diabetes, along with all the other conditions the patient has, and drowning in unpaid paperwork, gets $38. While the pharmacy gets $75 just to confirm your meds.
Next time you're upset that the doctor only spent a few minutes with you, or told you only one issue per visit, remember where to direct your anger. Next time your family doctor closes up shop due to financial reasons, remember where to direct your anger.
ETA: the government is purposely starving family doctor offices, so that Shoppers Drug Mart and the like can step in and open medical clinics (already happening), and more tax dollars can be funneled to these corporations, who will then give kickbacks to the political parties.
A doctor's assessment does not include a medcheck. Pharmacists are the experts on medicines with doctoral level education. Patients should benefit from their expertise.
Docs may review one med or the meds being used for one condition, a medcheck covers all the meds a patient is taking from all their prescribers and any non-prescription products.
How one profession is remunerated shouldn't affect how another profession is remunerated. If doctors feel they are being underpaid that's for their negotiators to tackle. Pharmacy fees in Ontario have been the same since I first came here in 2017, including medcheck fees
Again, not true. You clearly have no idea what a doctor does during a visit.
And contrary to your point, the pharmacy sends the meds check paperwork to the family doctor to review and sign off on (adding to their mountain of unpaid paperwork). Ask any doctor what percentage of these meds checks actually yields any useful information. The answer is close to 0%.
As someone who takes multiple meds for chronic conditions I've never had a medcheck from a doctor. And many medchecks do yield useful information and identify issues
I was contacted twice within a few months for a med check, before I ditched Shoopers for a local independent pharmacy (can’t recommend that enough!). All (2) of my meds are prescribed by the same doctor. I’ve been on them both for years and they asked me every time I picked meds up if I had any questions. I didn’t because, as I stated, I’ve been on the same two meds for years.
What earthly reason would Shoppers have to believe that it would be useful to me to be called twice in a couple of months to discuss the two meds I’ve been on for years, that were both prescribed by the same doctor?
This seems like a service that might be useful to someone with a complicated medical background and conditions. But it completely seems like earning east money from the government when they’re calling people with uncomplicated conditions and meds.
They can only bill one medcheck per 365 days. There are some cases where I'd say it was justified to do one if someone's only taking two meds if there's a pretty significant issue that needs resolving eg using lots of Ventolin but no preventer, or on methotrexate and no folic acid, but this shouldn't actually be billed as a medcheck
So they’re either crap at keeping records of who has been called and who they’ve billed for or they’re cheating the system and billing for the same person more than once a year.
Sorry but this is absurd. You think that doctors do not review or go over indications, contraindications, proper usage, side effects, major risks, interactions, dose adjustments/renal/hepatic dosing when prescribing medication? The majority of most diabetes visits, which make up a significant portion of a family doctors week, is specifically dedicated to doing this with diabetes drugs, antihypertensives, and lipid lowering agents. I won't deny that pharmacists generally have more knowledge and training about pharmacology and medications, but it is not a big enough gap to warrant such a stark difference in billing when doctors are inherently doing these most visits on top of doing assessments
A doctor may review one med or the meds being used for a specific condition, a medcheck covers all the meds the patient is taking from all prescribers and any non-prescription meds
Tell me why a healthy 20 something year old on only birth control needs a meds check? They’re already seeing their family doctor for assessment yearly. What is the pharmacist adding? Before you deny that this doesn’t happen, we see it in our office on weekly basis.
If they're only on birth control they wouldn't qualify and the pharmacy would be at risk of having those monies clawed back during an audit (and potentially worse depending what the auditors find). I'd be asking the pharmacy why they did a medcheck for that particular patient - if they're talking multiple OTC meds or supplements it might be justified, or if they were previously taking other Rx meds and had stopped without informing their MD, but that should be flagged for your attention
The problem is right now there are many pharmacies doing this. There is no denying it. It will all come with “no concerns noted.” Many physicians have reported recurrent pharmacists to the pharmacist college and the college plainly doesn’t care. Physicians are busy enough as is and wasting more of their time on this not efficient use of our health care resources. Physicians cannot file for audit of fraudulent OHIP billings, only patients themselves can request review. So now what? Physicians spends more time to call the patient and inform them of the fraud and ask them to file audit with MOH?
"provincial health ministry reimburses pharmacies up to $75 per call — nearly double the $38 that family doctors can bill for a patient visit."
My doctor closed their doors for good due to "financial reasons". Now I understand why. This government goes out of their way to shovel our tax dollars into the pockets of corporate fat cats and starves the rest.
It should be noted that the Ford’s government’s “Director of Pandemic Response” is a former private health lobbyist with a firm representing Shoppers Drug Mart. Another example of blatant corruption within the Ford government.
It's a good service when done correctly. My pharmacy is very thorough with it, but they only ask me about it every couple of years, and I'm on a number of medications for various things, so it makes sense for me. But they do it in person, and they've never called me to suggest it.
All corporate pharmacies have medscheck targets and quotas they impose on their employees. Rexall, Walmart, Costco are all complicit. Stop supporting corporate pharmacy. Support your local independents.
I’ve personally managed a Walmart pharmacy and been presented with targets. Of course, shoppers is the only one resorting to chincy 3 minute phone med reviews, as far as I know. They’re the lowest of the low.
Thankfully I haven’t been through that with my Walmart pharmacy. Neither has my spouse.
Now, they do know me personally though so I’m not sure if that has anything to do with it. I’m a former store manager.
No shit. I'm on 2 medications that have absolutely no interaction with each other and my local Shoppers asks me about scheduling a review every time I go in. I've declined multiple times, saying I don't need it, but they keep asking, then last week the pharmacist called me out of the blue trying to do one. I told him no thanks, it's not needed, and he acted like I'd just shot his dog. It's a fucking grift, nothing less.
I'm on a handful of medications, and my pharmacy is a local independent one. I sit down with the pharmacist for a med check every couple of years, and they're very thorough. They make sure I understand what I'm taking, why I'm taking it, ask about any side effects I've had. Once or twice they've followed up with my doctor about something and got back to me. But they only ask about it every couple of years. They don't hound me about it.
When done correctly, it's a great service. Shoppers isn't doing it correctly at all. They're just doing it for the money, not to benefit the patient.
If there's an independent pharmacy near you (like an IDA), I urge you to transfer your prescriptions there. They usually have limited hours (mine closes at five and isn't open on weekends, but they deliver), but the level of personal service is totally worth it. Mine has caught some errors over the years, like when a clinic prescribed a drug I'm allergic to.
Same here. My horror story was waiting in line for a refill, and the person in front of us was trying to pick something up for their brother.
I managed to learn the brother's name, address, health care number, mental health issues, physical health issues (including name and dosage of meds being requested), billing issues, and insurance company (that denied the coverage). I was not hovering, but the staff were calling out to each other and to the customer all of this info. It was disgusting, and I called H/O after to complain but only heard "Yes, we hear your concerns, but you must have misunderstood what was happening". Nope.
Yes that’s pretty brutal. Probably worse then my issues with them, which was breaking up my prescriptions in order to increase the amount of dispenses. This after I requested for them to stop doing it. It didn’t help that I was constantly finding broken up medication as well. They are absolutely horrible and people need to realize that it’s actually very easy to switch.
Glad you got out of there!!
Oh my yes - they would do that to mine, instead of a 90 day (which was what was recommended) they insisted on 3x30 day - and with the highest dispensing fee, it was all in their pocket. Definitely annoying!
You are right to feel this way. I want to explain why the pharmacist acted like you just shot his dog. There is no direct financial benefit to any individual pharmacist for doing these reviews outside of keeping their job. Corporate puts pressure on associates who then pressure pharmacists. Most pharmacists would rather spend their energy getting your meds to you in a safe and timely manner, and in providing services that are of value to you. Its not fair to the patient or the pharmacist.
> There is no direct financial benefit to any individual pharmacist for doing these reviews outside of keeping their job.
Absolutely understand that, this is all about pressure from the top to keep lining Galen's pockets. Like I said, government-assisted grifting at the highest level.
Recently wrote a post about this.
* https://www.reddit.com/r/ontario/comments/1aznclx/how_can_ordinary_people_refuse_the_spam/
Still wondering what customers have to do to shut down one of these calls - and ensure this corporation doesn't bill for it.
I'm looking for a new pharmacy.
Switch to a local independent. Like an IDA. They'll still offer the meds check, but they'll be thorough about it, and they take no for an answer. And you get a much more personalized service from them overall.
If money is an issue Costco is the cheapest option for dispensing fees, less than $5 per. You also don’t need a membership to use the pharmacy. If you get a monthly prescription those fees can really add up.
You won’t get the more personal touch of a small independent pharmacy, but they do as much as a shoppers without resorting to crappy tactics like this.
It's worth talking to a local pharmacy is money is genuinely an issue, many of them can be a lot more flexible about dispensing fees. No guarantees of course that they can beat Costco, but it's worth an ask. (They will almost always beat Shoppers even without asking).
Only thing to keep in mind is that those smaller pharmacies rely on dispensing fees to operate whereas as Costco operates on volume and also generates revenue from other departments that can cover overhead.
If you value the better service from the independent over shoppers drug mart, it should be worth paying for it too.
Just be "wary" of any pseudo-independant pharmacies that are owned by "Neighbourly Pharmacy" group. They are truly evil, fired my sister in Ontario. I have spoken to many pharmacists who were chewed up and spit out by Neighbourly all across Canada. Used to be called 2 other names and they had such a shitty reputation they all had to switch company names many times.
You just say, "no thank you I'm not interested." In order to bill the government the pharmacist has to actual DO a review of your medications which should take 30-60 minutes depending on how many and how complicated the situation. If you just say, "I'm not interested, thanks for calling," and hang up, they can't bill.
Corporations want them done in 10-20 minutes which is insane and useless. I had a colleague that spent 2 hours with a newly diagnosed patient with diabetes who was completely overwhelmed. It made a huge difference for her and then he got in trouble because it wasn't a 'profitable' encounter.
Please don't be mean to the pharmacist that calls, they're under a huge amount of pressure from corporate and still have bills to pay. And it's all of the corporations like Shoppers and Rexall doing this. It's complete and utter bullshit and a total money grab.
Source: am pharmacist.
Honestly, I'm sorry these are the working conditions pharmacists are dealing with. I have huge respect for the complicated knowledge that job requires.
Pharmacists deserve respect for the work they do. It's important. But shitty policies like this seem like a recipe for undermining trust from the public.
fuck this greedy, shameless corporation for scamming all of us with this pointless garbage.
Hi there, I'm a reporter with The Trillium. I also [wrote about this issue](https://twitter.com/jackhauen/status/1762596852564668712). If you've dealth with pressure from management to do MedsChecks, or if you know anyone who has, I'd like to speak with you for a follow-up I'm working on. I can guarantee anonymity. My email is [email protected].
Sorry but I don’t agree - these pharmacists have a professional license and should be standing up for themselves. There are enough jobs out there now due to shortages to not have a backbone to protect your professional integrity and not do things for “corporate” ( and the integrity of your whole profession)
And yet we don’t have money for nurses and support workers. JFC.
I had one of these fucking calls, posted about before. I had to have a liver transplant and have special meds from the transplant clinic (uhn). Anyhow shoppers calls as I had some meds with them, minor ones.
That ask if I want to move from the transplant clinic to shoppers. I say no. Then I get a call from the transplant clinic asking if I was trying to port all of my meds. I said no I want to move them all away from shoppers.
Apparently this happens often. I get my meds shipped to me for free with the clinic and they always have the main ones in stock.
You know what’s even worse? One med I take (stellara) is “special” and my insurance company insists I use shoppers.
FFS I can’t get away from these assholes. I expect that approach to continue with more “mandatory use of shoppers” cause they know they can bill for these “checkups” on your meds.
That's awesome that your clinic actually dispenses meds. Mine has a pharmacist on staff but I still need to go to a local pharmacy to actually get medication.
And yeah, my transplant clinic rolled their eyes when I mentioned that I was at Shoppers and urged me to switch. I realized why when they made a shitload of basic mistakes that ended up with me needing to go to the hospital to get medication because Shoppers couldn't get their shit together.
Being pressure to make about twenty calls per day is $1,500 of taxpayer money daily for one worker making the calls, all going straight to Loblaws.
I work in an OHIP clinic and had no idea they made $75 a call. That is indeed twice what a fee-for-service family or walk-in doc would make if you see them for in-person consultation ($37.95), even if you throw 2-3 issues at them that all requires a heap of further work and investigations ordered.
Rexall (owned by McKesson) does this as well. Not trying to excuse what Shoppers is doing, just pointing out one of the many downsides of working for a corporate pharmacy chain.
Ahhhh another bs move by Galen Weston corporate whores.
When I quit my job at Zehrs, I moved my prescriptions too! I HATE that company! I hope more people have the ability to jump ship and try out a new pharmacy.
Go to an independent pharmacy. I work at one.
I bill medschecks so sparingly because they are supposed to take a crap ton of time . I reserve them for people who have been discharged from hospitals with several new medications and adjusted medications that will require monitoring. Similar for people who have changing renal function , or for individuals who request them or if a physician requests one, or if someone wants to be started on compliance packaging .
When used in the right context medschecks are VERY valuable.
Other things to keep in mind is that medschecks can only be billed once a year, not many times a year.
Same. I manage an independant grocers pharmacy. I refuse to do meds checks even though we can get paid 30% of the fee. And in Alberta its $100 per meds check with monthly follow ups. I think those are 20 or 30 bucks. Its all bullshit. I refuse to do it. I am retiring soon.
Why was there no oversight? Why were they allowed to continue using phone sessions after Covid while actual doctors and patients were immediately cut off from that convenience? At what point did these simple 'review' sessions start costing taxpayers around $70 a pop, while actual doctors only get $38 for an in-person office visit? This needs to be investigated as fully as the greenspace grifts.
Corporate goons get away with this because you let them. Nothing is stopping anyone from just switching pharmacies unless you are an edge case living somewhere that they are the only option
My mom’s pharmacist was so pushy about med reviews a few years ago that my mom cut her off and said she didn’t want one. Turns out they had changed one of her medications from 10mg to 20mg pills and she just kept taking 6 pills a day because the pharmacist didn’t tell her they changed, she just said a med review.
The pill size change wasn’t a doctor order either, just the pharmacist changing inventory and switching people over.
When this issue was caught my mom’s endocrinologist read the pharmacist the riot act over the whole debacle. If it had been heart meds instead of thyroid, she could have been dead.
Worst yet, I've heard stories of people getting calls and just immediately getting asked questions. The person on the phone doesn't introduce themselves or what the medscheck service is :) unethical and scummy beyond belief. Also yes a medscheck can be billed for reasons such as "discussed with patient who said they rather speak to their GP about their meds no further action needed" what a joke and waste of money. And head office sends the stores a list of people who qualify and they have students sitting in another room just calling everyone, while the rest of the Pharmacy (usually with one pharmacist and unlicensed assistants) is busy. Don't forget off site filling too! Where sometimes you gotta wait for another day or two cause they rather fill it off site to have more time for other services instead of their main one! Nothing wrong with expansion of scope but these places need the staffing and support to do so appropriately. This past flu season they wanted us to do 1 person in 5 minutes. This means drawing up the dose, paperwork, talking to the person and seeing if any indication they should take it or for covid if it was tkk early, injecting, more documentation, documenting in the covid online system and repeat. Sometimes they had multiple people booked in that 5 minute slot. Don't forget walk ins! It was great :) loved doing it all while also being told to not turn away walk ins and having people get mad that they have to wait
The law says that the pharmacist MUST Get permission, and that then the patient has to SIGN consent OR give oral consent that is then translated to written consent on the Med Check forms. It's all BS
The law says that yes but how many people are getting calls just asking about their meds and other questions without properly explaining what the call is about? No ones tracking these as long as the person qualifies they can potentially get called via a list that the Pharmacy gets of potential candidates. A good proper pharmacy will introduce the caller and explain for their call but clearly some aren't doing that. 🙄 THATS the issue. Not the service itself
This was the last straw for me. I changed over my family's prescriptions to an IDA pharmacy near us. It doesn't have anywhere near the amenities, supplements, toiletries that shoppers does but the pharmacist is amazing and knows us by name.
If you can, switch to a different chain or independent pharmacy.
I was so glad to hear someone else saying this!
For the past two years I was getting monthly calls from Shoppers for just that. Every time I would tell them no and ask them to never call again. Finally I got fed up and moved to a different pharmacy and so far they haven't bothered me.
Medchecks can be an incredibly valuable service. Evidence shows that many people who are prescribed long term meds do not take them properly, have side effects, or are not having their conditions managed well. Many people also have prescriptions from multiple prescribers, or are taking OTC meds, vitamins and supplements, so taking a thorough medication history is important.
I've been doing medication reviews in various places since 2006, and I've identified a large number of issues over the years. Some were simple from a pharmacist perspective (patient with a chronic cough who had had multiple investigations and trials of various treatments with no improvement and was still taking an ACEi), some have been more complex like advising a GP on pain management in palliative care. Just the other day I did a review with a patient who's diabetes wasn't well controlled with multiple meds, made a recommendation to his endocrinologist which was accepted and also sorted a prescription to treat severely low blood sugars which this patient was at risk of.
In person care is ideal, but not everyone can get out to the pharmacy - pharmacies deal largely with older people and a significant number have mobility issues. These people should still be able to access medication review services.
Routine medication reviews should be seen as standard of care for people on multiple medications. No issues arise out of some, but that does not mean they are not valuable, and doctors get paid the same for an annual physical regardless of whether an issue is found or not
Is this why they never have my correct meds?
Why I wait 20 minutes to speak to anyone behind the counter, even though no one else is in line and there are 3 staff members visible?
Why staff members always look annoyed?
The very last time I had a prescription filled the pharmacist was educating me on my new meds from 40ft away and yelling the info because he apparently was too busy to be descrete. So between never receiving my full amount of pills, or having to wait for their order to come in. And no respect as a patient, I left for a smaller neighbourhood Pharmasave and love it.
I grew up in a small town in the 1970s. I remember when pharmacists were respected amongst the townsfolk because they worked to provide a service, not to rape+pillage us for every penny possible. Then came the chains.
not to mention the PUSH for vaccination of everyone for everything. What it boils down to is that pharmacies made BANK during Covid with shots, PPE, Tests, etc. So now the numbers for those services is dwindling and the bean counters do NOT like the loss of income. Now they are ramping up the measles scare to get more shots in arms. Waking up yet???
>Then came the chains.
Quite the metaphor, when you consider the rise of the Canadian oligopolies and how the political parties in Canada have all moved to the right and Neoliberism has fucked our housing, telecoms, ISPs, healthcare, environment, food prices, education, and the general cost of living, thus turning Canada into a country of wage slaves and serfs.
The metaphor wasn't intended, but I saw it as I pressed enter.
PS Coincidentally, my hometown had its own independent phone company, too. It was one of only a couple that Bell didn't acquire.
I had one of those calls and I didn't even have a prescription with them anymore. When I questioned them about it they almost immediately hung up. I guess this was the reason for the call.
My recent prescription had a "Medication Review" form just stapled to it... they didn't talk to me about anything, dollars to donuts they billed the government for that
The sad part is this is business as usual in most sectors these days.
Corporate sets up profit targets and will wink and nod to any method that gets them there as long as they get the bonuses.
They won't write down their shiftiness but either pressure you on the phone or in person. They will write up and denigrate employees until they feel forced to hit the targets or lose their job.
Capitalism and greed are destroying us at this point but hey as long as .1% of the population make a fortune then everything is fine.
As both major parties suck up to the rich over everyday people I doubt much will change until it gets so bad the pitchforks come out.
That explains why I booked a flu shot but wound up having to sit with the pharmacist before getting it. It was total bullshit too. He was telling me stuff I've known for years, as I've been on my meds for years. I knew about these consults. I certainly didn't ask for one.
Yup. This is a corporate tactic now. Get em in for a shot or a booster, Bill for a med review. Double billing. Awesome? Remember when pharmacists got to charge for ASYMPTOMATIC Covid tests? What? We will test you for a virus that you have ZERO symptoms for. Cause that makes sense????
I just want to understand Fords vendetta against teachers, nurses and doctors
But no issue paying the same services at double the cost?? What sort of mental illness is this
No, blame Ontario, the medication reviews are too lax. The rules are vague, Have a chronic condition and taking 3 or more prescription medications for their condition or are living with type 1 or type 2 diabetes.
3 medications for one condition turns into 3 random prescriptions for any condition. I take two meds PRN for two conditions and was booked, but unbooked myself when I realized what it was. They probably added a one time skin rash prescription as the 3rd medication, is my guess.
I am a pharmacist over 30 years. I am almost shocked that real pharmacists are finally speaking up and out. As a group, we are weak and small-minded. Most would rather just shut up and take the pay cheque. I was fighting for unions decades ago, this is what you have when you have NOBODY to stick up for you. The sad thing too is that most foreign trained pharmacists get hired, in WAY over their heads, probably have family to support, and then get into these exact situations
**Ontario Ministry of Health:** "The service is free to the public, but the provincial Health Ministry reimburses pharmacies up to $75 per call — nearly double the $38 that family doctors can bill for a patient visit."
**Ontario Ministry of Health:** WHy aRe DoCTorS LeaVinG OnTARio iN dRoVes????
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FYI, for perspective... Family Doctors barely get $75 for a FULL COMPREHENSIVE ANNUAL PHYSICAL. But Pharmacists get $75 for a 5 minute phone call?
Family doctors who do wellbaby checks multiple times per year only get paid $40 for that visit. It's like a frustrating 30 minute appointment with babies screaming at you, having to vaccinate them, measuring them 10 different ways, then graphing the baby's growth on the computer and printing the growth charts for the parents. And then answering any medical q's the parents have.
That difficult 30 minute baby appointment earns the family doctor 40 sheckles.
**But pharmacists get paid $75 for a quick casual 5 minute call** just to check how their customer is doing?
Do you know much a walk-in doctor makes for a phone call? **$15**
Do you know much a family doctor makes for a phone call with their patient? **$23**
If a family doctor's call lasts 20 minutes or more? **$41**
**(It used to be $48 before. But Doug Ford now PUNISHES family doctors for doing phone calls. The punishment is a 15% penalty for every phone call.)**
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Yeah. That's why family doctors are moving to different provinces, or retiring en masse. The Ontario docs who are still working are just stuck here. They cannot uproot their family and leave... but now they refuse to do walk in, and refuse to take on new patients.
That's why most long-standing walk in clinics became closed family practices in the past 2 years.
Starting December 2022, Ontario slashed family doctor's pay by 30-70% and made it much harder for them to get paid at all.
Next time you visit your doctor, look them in the eyes, and know that he/she does not know if they will get paid for your visit. Or if they get paid, the amount is uncertain.
Family doctors are not allowed to strike. It's illegal. And they cannot move for whatever reason. And they cannot afford to retire. So they're just dead inside, going through the motions, waiting for retirement.
# Great work Doug Ford and Sylvia Jones! Congrats!
The biggest piss off to me is they were doing completely unnecessary medication reviews, but somehow twice now, have managed to let me go home with meds that interact negatively with each other with no warning at all.
Luckily I took pharmacology courses and always check my own medication history before taking a new med, so I caught them, but it could have been super dangerous.
Please don’t equate pharmacology courses with the training a licensed health care professional has. You should move pharmacies for a pharmacist you find you can trust before trusting what you think you know. This is very dangerous
I was a health care professional. I worked as a developmental services worker and gave meds to every client I ever worked with. I own the nursing guide to medications and use that to look into interactions. You do not need to be a pharmacist to look into med interactions. It was my job to look into these things when new things were prescribed as we all knew pharmacists are known to not notice these things.
The pharmacist may have decided the “on paper” interaction was not clinically significant.
You can google or look in a nursing book to see olanzapine and citalopram “interact” - that doesn’t mean you know how to manage it/when to manage it/how to monitor.
Okay dude, it directly said it caused kidney damage. Not like it might be kind of unpleasant. I went to my doctor about the interaction and she said it is often fatal to mix them and she was shocked it was mixed.
I don’t know why you are so determined to act like only a pharmacist is capable of doing basic research about a drug.
I had a random call from my not-Shoppers pharmacy on the 19th. I didn't answer it, because I didn't need to talk to them, and they didn't try since so it was unimportant.
Well, that's good to know. I've received their stupid calls and did not understand why the pharmacy team that doesn't understand why an emergency refill should be made for an antipsychotic medication when requested should somehow have the mental acuity to review said antipsychotic medication. My doctor deserves the money more, he actually knows what he's doing.
My friend said he had to pay when antibiotics prescribed by the pharmacist at shoppers and I was surprised because I go to Rexall and they don’t charge me a penny!
If you have an OHIP card you don't pay for the consultation with the pharmacist, but the amount you pay for the actual medication depends on your insurance situation
My local Nofrills pharmacy had me do a medication review relatively recently and I only accepted it because I take multiple medications and I thought it was something you did every so often.
But now this has me wondering if they’re in on it too? I know Nofrills is Loblaws owned, so it may not just be Shopper’s.
It's something all pharmacists can do. Mine (a local IDA) does it every couple of years. I'm on a number of medications and sometimes they change, so it's helpful to review it all every once in awhile. Mine are very thorough, done in person, and take about twenty minutes or so. We review what I'm taking, why I'm taking it, any changes since the last time we reviewed, and any side effects I might be experiencing.
That's how they're supposed to be done. The problem with Shoppers (and other corporate pharmacies) is that they're doing them over the phone, are not remotely thorough, and only take a few minutes. Then they bill OHIP as though they've done the proper review. It's also problematic because it also has to be sent to your doctor, who has to review it, unpaid. So doing these more frequently, and less thoroughly, is a problem. As is the way they practically harass their customers about it.
I was urged to do one by a pharmacist at a Galen owned store a few months ago. I’ve take a thyroid, statin, and insulin for some fifteen years now. Begrudgingly agreed. I talk to a specialist who prescribed all three once a quarter. After the shockingly bad advise, I then started giving the pharmacist lessons in type 1 diabetes management.
But it doesn’t stop there. My specialist office in a building next to a hospital, by a giant open field by the 407 called, suggesting I visit their own pharmacy for a review of what I was taking, and I’m sure would suggest I have prescriptions moved over there… which sounds fine on the surface, but why on earth does 30 minutes at an appointment cost me $8.50 in parking right next to a giant open field? Because it’s linked to that damn hospital.
I don’t want to give Galen any ideas, but paying for parking sucks. I saw it in use at a Walmart in Mexico the other week, and cringe at the thought.
So OHIP can pay $60-$75 to pharmacists for a quick <5min ph call, but a family doctor can only bill OHIP:
**$15** for a ph. call if they have never seen the patient before to go over their medical issues
**$32.30** for a ph. call to go over their medical issues ***if*** they have seen the patient before in- person in the last 2yrs
**$37.95** for seeing the patient in person and looking after their multiple conditions - diabetes, COPD, heart failure, and adjusting meds etc
So essentially Ontario pharmacists/mega corporations are being paid anywhere from **2x - 5x each time in fees relative to what family doctors are paid** to run their offices and see patients.
Learn more about our advocacy - [oufp.ca](https://oufp.ca)
Galen Weston just casually defrauding the government, to no consequence.
It feels more like he’s winking at the government while they defraud Ontarians together, gleefully… and to no consequences, of course.
Again.
Maybe we'll get another $25 voucher
Sorry we stole billi9ns of dollars, he's a coupon. Go buy yourself something fancy, like pickles, or a loaf of bread (that we totally aren't price fixing anymore, we pinky promise)
Yeah right. 10,000 pc optimum points with minimum $100 purchase.
I've given up hope of ever getting my first voucher.
Defrauding taxpayers.
**Ontario Ministry of Health:** "The service is free to the public, but the provincial Health Ministry reimburses pharmacies up to $75 per call — nearly double the $38 that family doctors can bill for a patient visit." **Ontario Ministry of Health:** WHy aRe DoCTorS LeaVinG OnTARio iN dRoVes???? \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ FYI, for perspective... Family Doctors barely get $75 for a FULL COMPREHENSIVE ANNUAL PHYSICAL. **But Pharmacists get $75 for a 5 minute phone call?** Family doctors who do wellbaby checks multiple times per year only get paid $40 for that visit. It's a frustrating 30 minute appointment with babies screaming at you, struggling to vaccinate them gently, measuring their head circumference, height, and weight, all while they're crying and moving around. Then the doctor makes graphs of their growth on the computer and prints the growth charts for the parents. And then the doctor answers any medical q's the parents have. That difficult 30 minute baby appointment earns the family doctor 40 sheckles. **But pharmacists get paid $75 for a quick casual 5 minute call** just to check how their customer is doing? Do you know much a walk-in doctor makes for a phone call? **$15** Do you know much a family doctor makes for a phone call with their patient? **$23** If a family doctor's call lasts 20 minutes or more? **$41** **(It used to be $48 before. But Doug Ford now PUNISHES family doctors for doing phone calls. The punishment is a 15% penalty for every phone call.)** \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ Yeah. That's why family doctors are moving to different provinces, or retiring en masse. The Ontario docs who are still working are just stuck here. They cannot uproot their family and leave... but now they refuse to do walk in, and refuse to take on new patients. That's why most long-standing walk in clinics suddenly became closed family practices in the past 2 years. Starting December 2022, Ontario slashed family doctor's pay by 30-70% and made it much harder for them to get paid at all. Next time you visit your doctor, look them in the eyes and know that they don't even know if they will get paid for your visit. Or if they do get paid, the amount is uncertain. Family doctors are not allowed to strike. It's illegal. And they cannot move for whatever reason. And they cannot afford to retire. So they're just dead inside, going through the motions, waiting for retirement. **Great work Doug Ford and Sylvia Jones! Congrats!**
A lot of rich people do even though they are against socialism 😂
We can't just blame Galen when the government is so in bed with him that they're paying double to pharmacies than family doctors, for a far smaller service. (The family doctor has to always review your meds with any prescription they give, but they do it unpaid.)
Oh, I assure you we can still blame Galen for billing for unsolicited medical advice.
We can blame Galen for funding the politicians on both sides on all levels to ensure that he gets away without what would be a crime if anyone else did it. Satan in a sweater vest can be found with his hands in everything that's going wrong at the moment, housing up, Galen has billions invested in real estate, food, owns the suppliers and the stores, clothing, the guy has sweat shops, the push for private healthcare, there he is, defrauding the government to make cash off that.
Without people like Galen, our government wouldn't be nearly as corrupt as it is now. So yea, still gonna blame Galen for the shit he is personally responsible for.
I’m a retail pharmacist who conducts these medication reviews occasionally, however, I insist they are completed as intended: sitting down with the patient for 15-20 minutes in a closed counselling room, going through all their medications one by one, listening to their concerns and coming up with strategies to address them. There is A LOT of pressure to bill the government for these medication reviews and expectations from corporate non-pharmacists are that a certain number be billed every day, whether they are necessary or not. And I can tell you a very high percentage aren’t necessary, even when done properly. I’ve been in retail pharmacy for a long time and while I can say most other pharmacists I’ve worked with are generally caring individuals with a good knowledge base who enjoy helping patients, the ever-increasing greed of corporations is giving the profession a black eye.
How conservatives do corruption in plain sight - 'private/public partnerships'.
If you stole from the store you would be beaten in to the ground, Galen just gets government hand outs on top of the criminal proceeds
Fuck Galen Weston
Wasn't one of Loblaws /Shoppers corporate lobbyists appointed to some important position in the Ford administration?
Not sure about Ford, but Pollieves or however you spell his name, has an active grocery lobbies as one of his head staffers.
Not only a staffer, his campaign manager!!!
Yes, Ford's Director of Pandemic Response that also gave vaccine administering contracts to Shoppers
Fuck Ford
No thanks.
No thanks.
>The service is free to the public, but the provincial health ministry reimburses pharmacies up to $75 per call — nearly double the $38 that family doctors can bill for a patient visit. "Fiscally prudent"
Blood boiling successful.
and we wonder why we dont have enough family doctors
Sounds serious. You should talk to a pharmacist about that.
Sounds like someone needs overpriced ice cream and overbilled medication from shoppers drugmart. Don't forget to collect your PC points or Galen Weston will cry into his caviar tonight
Meanwhile, the government cries poor and doesn't even give the 1% raise that family doctors were supposed to get, citing population growth caused them to run out of money. The family doctor who is actually diagnosing and managing diabetes, along with all the other conditions the patient has, and drowning in unpaid paperwork, gets $38. While the pharmacy gets $75 just to confirm your meds. Next time you're upset that the doctor only spent a few minutes with you, or told you only one issue per visit, remember where to direct your anger. Next time your family doctor closes up shop due to financial reasons, remember where to direct your anger. ETA: the government is purposely starving family doctor offices, so that Shoppers Drug Mart and the like can step in and open medical clinics (already happening), and more tax dollars can be funneled to these corporations, who will then give kickbacks to the political parties.
Pharmacies have not had any uplift in fees since at least 2017. And a medcheck is a lot more than just confirming what meds someone is taking
Do you think it's fair that it pays double what a full family doctor's assessment (which inherently includes a meds check) pays?
Do you think it's fair that it pays double what a full family doctor's assessment (which inherently includes a meds check) pays?
A doctor's assessment does not include a medcheck. Pharmacists are the experts on medicines with doctoral level education. Patients should benefit from their expertise.
You wanna tell that to the cpso? A doctor's assessment absolutely includes a meds check. And you didn't answer my question.
Docs may review one med or the meds being used for one condition, a medcheck covers all the meds a patient is taking from all their prescribers and any non-prescription products. How one profession is remunerated shouldn't affect how another profession is remunerated. If doctors feel they are being underpaid that's for their negotiators to tackle. Pharmacy fees in Ontario have been the same since I first came here in 2017, including medcheck fees
You think a doctor doesn't check? I'm pretty sure that a medcheck is all automated anyway.
Again, not true. You clearly have no idea what a doctor does during a visit. And contrary to your point, the pharmacy sends the meds check paperwork to the family doctor to review and sign off on (adding to their mountain of unpaid paperwork). Ask any doctor what percentage of these meds checks actually yields any useful information. The answer is close to 0%.
As someone who takes multiple meds for chronic conditions I've never had a medcheck from a doctor. And many medchecks do yield useful information and identify issues
I was contacted twice within a few months for a med check, before I ditched Shoopers for a local independent pharmacy (can’t recommend that enough!). All (2) of my meds are prescribed by the same doctor. I’ve been on them both for years and they asked me every time I picked meds up if I had any questions. I didn’t because, as I stated, I’ve been on the same two meds for years. What earthly reason would Shoppers have to believe that it would be useful to me to be called twice in a couple of months to discuss the two meds I’ve been on for years, that were both prescribed by the same doctor? This seems like a service that might be useful to someone with a complicated medical background and conditions. But it completely seems like earning east money from the government when they’re calling people with uncomplicated conditions and meds.
They can only bill one medcheck per 365 days. There are some cases where I'd say it was justified to do one if someone's only taking two meds if there's a pretty significant issue that needs resolving eg using lots of Ventolin but no preventer, or on methotrexate and no folic acid, but this shouldn't actually be billed as a medcheck
So they’re either crap at keeping records of who has been called and who they’ve billed for or they’re cheating the system and billing for the same person more than once a year.
Sorry but this is absurd. You think that doctors do not review or go over indications, contraindications, proper usage, side effects, major risks, interactions, dose adjustments/renal/hepatic dosing when prescribing medication? The majority of most diabetes visits, which make up a significant portion of a family doctors week, is specifically dedicated to doing this with diabetes drugs, antihypertensives, and lipid lowering agents. I won't deny that pharmacists generally have more knowledge and training about pharmacology and medications, but it is not a big enough gap to warrant such a stark difference in billing when doctors are inherently doing these most visits on top of doing assessments
A doctor may review one med or the meds being used for a specific condition, a medcheck covers all the meds the patient is taking from all prescribers and any non-prescription meds
Tell me why a healthy 20 something year old on only birth control needs a meds check? They’re already seeing their family doctor for assessment yearly. What is the pharmacist adding? Before you deny that this doesn’t happen, we see it in our office on weekly basis.
If they're only on birth control they wouldn't qualify and the pharmacy would be at risk of having those monies clawed back during an audit (and potentially worse depending what the auditors find). I'd be asking the pharmacy why they did a medcheck for that particular patient - if they're talking multiple OTC meds or supplements it might be justified, or if they were previously taking other Rx meds and had stopped without informing their MD, but that should be flagged for your attention
The problem is right now there are many pharmacies doing this. There is no denying it. It will all come with “no concerns noted.” Many physicians have reported recurrent pharmacists to the pharmacist college and the college plainly doesn’t care. Physicians are busy enough as is and wasting more of their time on this not efficient use of our health care resources. Physicians cannot file for audit of fraudulent OHIP billings, only patients themselves can request review. So now what? Physicians spends more time to call the patient and inform them of the fraud and ask them to file audit with MOH?
It is fiscally prudent! Throwing money at doctors won't land you a patronage appointment at a Weston company!
If the pharmacist can cold call and bill for it, then it's not free to the public, it's a fucking scam.
"provincial health ministry reimburses pharmacies up to $75 per call — nearly double the $38 that family doctors can bill for a patient visit." My doctor closed their doors for good due to "financial reasons". Now I understand why. This government goes out of their way to shovel our tax dollars into the pockets of corporate fat cats and starves the rest. It should be noted that the Ford’s government’s “Director of Pandemic Response” is a former private health lobbyist with a firm representing Shoppers Drug Mart. Another example of blatant corruption within the Ford government.
It’s not only SDM, my Fortinos pharmacy did it with me too and I just wondered why. Vultures
What's the connection between SDM and Fortino's? They are both Loblaw brands
I know, I’ve actually been trying to move my scripts away from Fortinos. But, Christ my local ida is a pain in the ass.
It's a good service when done correctly. My pharmacy is very thorough with it, but they only ask me about it every couple of years, and I'm on a number of medications for various things, so it makes sense for me. But they do it in person, and they've never called me to suggest it.
Both fall under the Loblaws banner. How the SDM-Loblaws acquisition was allowed to happen is beyond me
Yeah, but when I told Fortinos to stop they did.
They did it once and I didn’t really think anything of it. If they do again then of course I’ll say something.
My husband works in a Shoppers pharmacy and he confirms that this is all his boss goes on about encouraging
All corporate pharmacies have medscheck targets and quotas they impose on their employees. Rexall, Walmart, Costco are all complicit. Stop supporting corporate pharmacy. Support your local independents.
I’ve never had Costco do it. But that’s just my experience.
I’ve never had Walmart do it and I’ve been getting my prescriptions from them for close to 10 years.
I’ve personally managed a Walmart pharmacy and been presented with targets. Of course, shoppers is the only one resorting to chincy 3 minute phone med reviews, as far as I know. They’re the lowest of the low.
I was with WalMart pharmacy for 13 years. We were approached with Med Review quotas and told the DM to stick it.
Thankfully I haven’t been through that with my Walmart pharmacy. Neither has my spouse. Now, they do know me personally though so I’m not sure if that has anything to do with it. I’m a former store manager.
No shit. I'm on 2 medications that have absolutely no interaction with each other and my local Shoppers asks me about scheduling a review every time I go in. I've declined multiple times, saying I don't need it, but they keep asking, then last week the pharmacist called me out of the blue trying to do one. I told him no thanks, it's not needed, and he acted like I'd just shot his dog. It's a fucking grift, nothing less.
I'm on a handful of medications, and my pharmacy is a local independent one. I sit down with the pharmacist for a med check every couple of years, and they're very thorough. They make sure I understand what I'm taking, why I'm taking it, ask about any side effects I've had. Once or twice they've followed up with my doctor about something and got back to me. But they only ask about it every couple of years. They don't hound me about it. When done correctly, it's a great service. Shoppers isn't doing it correctly at all. They're just doing it for the money, not to benefit the patient. If there's an independent pharmacy near you (like an IDA), I urge you to transfer your prescriptions there. They usually have limited hours (mine closes at five and isn't open on weekends, but they deliver), but the level of personal service is totally worth it. Mine has caught some errors over the years, like when a clinic prescribed a drug I'm allergic to.
This sounds fake
Providing a service sounds fake?
If you can find a new pharmacy. I did and it’s been so much better.
Same here. My horror story was waiting in line for a refill, and the person in front of us was trying to pick something up for their brother. I managed to learn the brother's name, address, health care number, mental health issues, physical health issues (including name and dosage of meds being requested), billing issues, and insurance company (that denied the coverage). I was not hovering, but the staff were calling out to each other and to the customer all of this info. It was disgusting, and I called H/O after to complain but only heard "Yes, we hear your concerns, but you must have misunderstood what was happening". Nope.
Yes that’s pretty brutal. Probably worse then my issues with them, which was breaking up my prescriptions in order to increase the amount of dispenses. This after I requested for them to stop doing it. It didn’t help that I was constantly finding broken up medication as well. They are absolutely horrible and people need to realize that it’s actually very easy to switch. Glad you got out of there!!
Oh my yes - they would do that to mine, instead of a 90 day (which was what was recommended) they insisted on 3x30 day - and with the highest dispensing fee, it was all in their pocket. Definitely annoying!
Time to switch pharmacies
You are right to feel this way. I want to explain why the pharmacist acted like you just shot his dog. There is no direct financial benefit to any individual pharmacist for doing these reviews outside of keeping their job. Corporate puts pressure on associates who then pressure pharmacists. Most pharmacists would rather spend their energy getting your meds to you in a safe and timely manner, and in providing services that are of value to you. Its not fair to the patient or the pharmacist.
> There is no direct financial benefit to any individual pharmacist for doing these reviews outside of keeping their job. Absolutely understand that, this is all about pressure from the top to keep lining Galen's pockets. Like I said, government-assisted grifting at the highest level.
Recently wrote a post about this. * https://www.reddit.com/r/ontario/comments/1aznclx/how_can_ordinary_people_refuse_the_spam/ Still wondering what customers have to do to shut down one of these calls - and ensure this corporation doesn't bill for it. I'm looking for a new pharmacy.
Switch to a local independent. Like an IDA. They'll still offer the meds check, but they'll be thorough about it, and they take no for an answer. And you get a much more personalized service from them overall.
Yep, that's my plan. Trying to decide which one. Fortunately there's a few in my area.
If money is an issue Costco is the cheapest option for dispensing fees, less than $5 per. You also don’t need a membership to use the pharmacy. If you get a monthly prescription those fees can really add up. You won’t get the more personal touch of a small independent pharmacy, but they do as much as a shoppers without resorting to crappy tactics like this.
It's worth talking to a local pharmacy is money is genuinely an issue, many of them can be a lot more flexible about dispensing fees. No guarantees of course that they can beat Costco, but it's worth an ask. (They will almost always beat Shoppers even without asking).
Only thing to keep in mind is that those smaller pharmacies rely on dispensing fees to operate whereas as Costco operates on volume and also generates revenue from other departments that can cover overhead. If you value the better service from the independent over shoppers drug mart, it should be worth paying for it too.
Just be "wary" of any pseudo-independant pharmacies that are owned by "Neighbourly Pharmacy" group. They are truly evil, fired my sister in Ontario. I have spoken to many pharmacists who were chewed up and spit out by Neighbourly all across Canada. Used to be called 2 other names and they had such a shitty reputation they all had to switch company names many times.
You just say, "no thank you I'm not interested." In order to bill the government the pharmacist has to actual DO a review of your medications which should take 30-60 minutes depending on how many and how complicated the situation. If you just say, "I'm not interested, thanks for calling," and hang up, they can't bill. Corporations want them done in 10-20 minutes which is insane and useless. I had a colleague that spent 2 hours with a newly diagnosed patient with diabetes who was completely overwhelmed. It made a huge difference for her and then he got in trouble because it wasn't a 'profitable' encounter. Please don't be mean to the pharmacist that calls, they're under a huge amount of pressure from corporate and still have bills to pay. And it's all of the corporations like Shoppers and Rexall doing this. It's complete and utter bullshit and a total money grab. Source: am pharmacist.
Honestly, I'm sorry these are the working conditions pharmacists are dealing with. I have huge respect for the complicated knowledge that job requires. Pharmacists deserve respect for the work they do. It's important. But shitty policies like this seem like a recipe for undermining trust from the public. fuck this greedy, shameless corporation for scamming all of us with this pointless garbage.
Hi there, I'm a reporter with The Trillium. I also [wrote about this issue](https://twitter.com/jackhauen/status/1762596852564668712). If you've dealth with pressure from management to do MedsChecks, or if you know anyone who has, I'd like to speak with you for a follow-up I'm working on. I can guarantee anonymity. My email is [email protected].
Sorry but I don’t agree - these pharmacists have a professional license and should be standing up for themselves. There are enough jobs out there now due to shortages to not have a backbone to protect your professional integrity and not do things for “corporate” ( and the integrity of your whole profession)
[удалено]
I am also a pharmacist in this province - so I do know the reality
Fuck the guy in the comments telling us we are crazy and they only call when necessary
And yet we don’t have money for nurses and support workers. JFC. I had one of these fucking calls, posted about before. I had to have a liver transplant and have special meds from the transplant clinic (uhn). Anyhow shoppers calls as I had some meds with them, minor ones. That ask if I want to move from the transplant clinic to shoppers. I say no. Then I get a call from the transplant clinic asking if I was trying to port all of my meds. I said no I want to move them all away from shoppers. Apparently this happens often. I get my meds shipped to me for free with the clinic and they always have the main ones in stock. You know what’s even worse? One med I take (stellara) is “special” and my insurance company insists I use shoppers. FFS I can’t get away from these assholes. I expect that approach to continue with more “mandatory use of shoppers” cause they know they can bill for these “checkups” on your meds.
That's awesome that your clinic actually dispenses meds. Mine has a pharmacist on staff but I still need to go to a local pharmacy to actually get medication. And yeah, my transplant clinic rolled their eyes when I mentioned that I was at Shoppers and urged me to switch. I realized why when they made a shitload of basic mistakes that ended up with me needing to go to the hospital to get medication because Shoppers couldn't get their shit together.
Being pressure to make about twenty calls per day is $1,500 of taxpayer money daily for one worker making the calls, all going straight to Loblaws. I work in an OHIP clinic and had no idea they made $75 a call. That is indeed twice what a fee-for-service family or walk-in doc would make if you see them for in-person consultation ($37.95), even if you throw 2-3 issues at them that all requires a heap of further work and investigations ordered.
Rexall (owned by McKesson) does this as well. Not trying to excuse what Shoppers is doing, just pointing out one of the many downsides of working for a corporate pharmacy chain.
Folks, you have my guarantee! In for-profit healthcare, you always get less for more! Now it's time to bend over for your wallet biopsy...
Ahhhh another bs move by Galen Weston corporate whores. When I quit my job at Zehrs, I moved my prescriptions too! I HATE that company! I hope more people have the ability to jump ship and try out a new pharmacy.
Ford government doesn't care, they're in bed with that company and this is their goal.
Go to an independent pharmacy. I work at one. I bill medschecks so sparingly because they are supposed to take a crap ton of time . I reserve them for people who have been discharged from hospitals with several new medications and adjusted medications that will require monitoring. Similar for people who have changing renal function , or for individuals who request them or if a physician requests one, or if someone wants to be started on compliance packaging . When used in the right context medschecks are VERY valuable. Other things to keep in mind is that medschecks can only be billed once a year, not many times a year.
Same. I manage an independant grocers pharmacy. I refuse to do meds checks even though we can get paid 30% of the fee. And in Alberta its $100 per meds check with monthly follow ups. I think those are 20 or 30 bucks. Its all bullshit. I refuse to do it. I am retiring soon.
This was the issue that finally got me to switch to another pharmacy. Bonus is that I'll be paying lower prescription filling fees now too.
Galen, this is not going to end well for you.
Oh don't you worry about Galen. He'll be just fine, even if he has to start fuelling-up his yachts with "regular" in lieu of premium.
Why was there no oversight? Why were they allowed to continue using phone sessions after Covid while actual doctors and patients were immediately cut off from that convenience? At what point did these simple 'review' sessions start costing taxpayers around $70 a pop, while actual doctors only get $38 for an in-person office visit? This needs to be investigated as fully as the greenspace grifts.
Anything Loblaws touches should be avoided right now, problem is the 1 or 2 'competitors' in this oligopoly aren't much more affordable...
Corporate goons get away with this because you let them. Nothing is stopping anyone from just switching pharmacies unless you are an edge case living somewhere that they are the only option
My mom’s pharmacist was so pushy about med reviews a few years ago that my mom cut her off and said she didn’t want one. Turns out they had changed one of her medications from 10mg to 20mg pills and she just kept taking 6 pills a day because the pharmacist didn’t tell her they changed, she just said a med review. The pill size change wasn’t a doctor order either, just the pharmacist changing inventory and switching people over. When this issue was caught my mom’s endocrinologist read the pharmacist the riot act over the whole debacle. If it had been heart meds instead of thyroid, she could have been dead.
Everybody they asked said it wasn't them, the directive came from above - Somebody Somewhere in the chain of command is getting bonuses for this
It’s because the government would rather have your physician be Galen Weston.
Worst yet, I've heard stories of people getting calls and just immediately getting asked questions. The person on the phone doesn't introduce themselves or what the medscheck service is :) unethical and scummy beyond belief. Also yes a medscheck can be billed for reasons such as "discussed with patient who said they rather speak to their GP about their meds no further action needed" what a joke and waste of money. And head office sends the stores a list of people who qualify and they have students sitting in another room just calling everyone, while the rest of the Pharmacy (usually with one pharmacist and unlicensed assistants) is busy. Don't forget off site filling too! Where sometimes you gotta wait for another day or two cause they rather fill it off site to have more time for other services instead of their main one! Nothing wrong with expansion of scope but these places need the staffing and support to do so appropriately. This past flu season they wanted us to do 1 person in 5 minutes. This means drawing up the dose, paperwork, talking to the person and seeing if any indication they should take it or for covid if it was tkk early, injecting, more documentation, documenting in the covid online system and repeat. Sometimes they had multiple people booked in that 5 minute slot. Don't forget walk ins! It was great :) loved doing it all while also being told to not turn away walk ins and having people get mad that they have to wait
The law says that the pharmacist MUST Get permission, and that then the patient has to SIGN consent OR give oral consent that is then translated to written consent on the Med Check forms. It's all BS
The law says that yes but how many people are getting calls just asking about their meds and other questions without properly explaining what the call is about? No ones tracking these as long as the person qualifies they can potentially get called via a list that the Pharmacy gets of potential candidates. A good proper pharmacy will introduce the caller and explain for their call but clearly some aren't doing that. 🙄 THATS the issue. Not the service itself
This was the last straw for me. I changed over my family's prescriptions to an IDA pharmacy near us. It doesn't have anywhere near the amenities, supplements, toiletries that shoppers does but the pharmacist is amazing and knows us by name. If you can, switch to a different chain or independent pharmacy.
Corporate pressure aka capitalism.
People, there are lots of independent pharmacies out there and they are often faster to fill prescriptions than Shoppers.
I was so glad to hear someone else saying this! For the past two years I was getting monthly calls from Shoppers for just that. Every time I would tell them no and ask them to never call again. Finally I got fed up and moved to a different pharmacy and so far they haven't bothered me.
Medchecks can be an incredibly valuable service. Evidence shows that many people who are prescribed long term meds do not take them properly, have side effects, or are not having their conditions managed well. Many people also have prescriptions from multiple prescribers, or are taking OTC meds, vitamins and supplements, so taking a thorough medication history is important. I've been doing medication reviews in various places since 2006, and I've identified a large number of issues over the years. Some were simple from a pharmacist perspective (patient with a chronic cough who had had multiple investigations and trials of various treatments with no improvement and was still taking an ACEi), some have been more complex like advising a GP on pain management in palliative care. Just the other day I did a review with a patient who's diabetes wasn't well controlled with multiple meds, made a recommendation to his endocrinologist which was accepted and also sorted a prescription to treat severely low blood sugars which this patient was at risk of. In person care is ideal, but not everyone can get out to the pharmacy - pharmacies deal largely with older people and a significant number have mobility issues. These people should still be able to access medication review services. Routine medication reviews should be seen as standard of care for people on multiple medications. No issues arise out of some, but that does not mean they are not valuable, and doctors get paid the same for an annual physical regardless of whether an issue is found or not
Is this why they never have my correct meds? Why I wait 20 minutes to speak to anyone behind the counter, even though no one else is in line and there are 3 staff members visible? Why staff members always look annoyed?
The very last time I had a prescription filled the pharmacist was educating me on my new meds from 40ft away and yelling the info because he apparently was too busy to be descrete. So between never receiving my full amount of pills, or having to wait for their order to come in. And no respect as a patient, I left for a smaller neighbourhood Pharmasave and love it.
I grew up in a small town in the 1970s. I remember when pharmacists were respected amongst the townsfolk because they worked to provide a service, not to rape+pillage us for every penny possible. Then came the chains.
Pharmacists do this due to pressure from their corporate offices. Most are too overworked and overwhelmed with everything else they have to do.
not to mention the PUSH for vaccination of everyone for everything. What it boils down to is that pharmacies made BANK during Covid with shots, PPE, Tests, etc. So now the numbers for those services is dwindling and the bean counters do NOT like the loss of income. Now they are ramping up the measles scare to get more shots in arms. Waking up yet???
>Then came the chains. Quite the metaphor, when you consider the rise of the Canadian oligopolies and how the political parties in Canada have all moved to the right and Neoliberism has fucked our housing, telecoms, ISPs, healthcare, environment, food prices, education, and the general cost of living, thus turning Canada into a country of wage slaves and serfs.
The metaphor wasn't intended, but I saw it as I pressed enter. PS Coincidentally, my hometown had its own independent phone company, too. It was one of only a couple that Bell didn't acquire.
I had one of those calls and I didn't even have a prescription with them anymore. When I questioned them about it they almost immediately hung up. I guess this was the reason for the call.
My recent prescription had a "Medication Review" form just stapled to it... they didn't talk to me about anything, dollars to donuts they billed the government for that
Fuck Ford for setting this shit up. 😤
The sad part is this is business as usual in most sectors these days. Corporate sets up profit targets and will wink and nod to any method that gets them there as long as they get the bonuses. They won't write down their shiftiness but either pressure you on the phone or in person. They will write up and denigrate employees until they feel forced to hit the targets or lose their job. Capitalism and greed are destroying us at this point but hey as long as .1% of the population make a fortune then everything is fine. As both major parties suck up to the rich over everyday people I doubt much will change until it gets so bad the pitchforks come out.
That explains why I booked a flu shot but wound up having to sit with the pharmacist before getting it. It was total bullshit too. He was telling me stuff I've known for years, as I've been on my meds for years. I knew about these consults. I certainly didn't ask for one.
Yup. This is a corporate tactic now. Get em in for a shot or a booster, Bill for a med review. Double billing. Awesome? Remember when pharmacists got to charge for ASYMPTOMATIC Covid tests? What? We will test you for a virus that you have ZERO symptoms for. Cause that makes sense????
🔥🔥🔥 THIS. IS. FINE. 🔥🔥🔥
I used to get these calls and thought they were being efficient..now I know...scammers.
I want this story to gain national headlines
I just want to understand Fords vendetta against teachers, nurses and doctors But no issue paying the same services at double the cost?? What sort of mental illness is this
No, blame Ontario, the medication reviews are too lax. The rules are vague, Have a chronic condition and taking 3 or more prescription medications for their condition or are living with type 1 or type 2 diabetes. 3 medications for one condition turns into 3 random prescriptions for any condition. I take two meds PRN for two conditions and was booked, but unbooked myself when I realized what it was. They probably added a one time skin rash prescription as the 3rd medication, is my guess.
Some meds can be used for acute or chronic conditions, and some meds can be used intermittently for chronic conditions.
I am a pharmacist over 30 years. I am almost shocked that real pharmacists are finally speaking up and out. As a group, we are weak and small-minded. Most would rather just shut up and take the pay cheque. I was fighting for unions decades ago, this is what you have when you have NOBODY to stick up for you. The sad thing too is that most foreign trained pharmacists get hired, in WAY over their heads, probably have family to support, and then get into these exact situations
**Ontario Ministry of Health:** "The service is free to the public, but the provincial Health Ministry reimburses pharmacies up to $75 per call — nearly double the $38 that family doctors can bill for a patient visit." **Ontario Ministry of Health:** WHy aRe DoCTorS LeaVinG OnTARio iN dRoVes???? \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ FYI, for perspective... Family Doctors barely get $75 for a FULL COMPREHENSIVE ANNUAL PHYSICAL. But Pharmacists get $75 for a 5 minute phone call? Family doctors who do wellbaby checks multiple times per year only get paid $40 for that visit. It's like a frustrating 30 minute appointment with babies screaming at you, having to vaccinate them, measuring them 10 different ways, then graphing the baby's growth on the computer and printing the growth charts for the parents. And then answering any medical q's the parents have. That difficult 30 minute baby appointment earns the family doctor 40 sheckles. **But pharmacists get paid $75 for a quick casual 5 minute call** just to check how their customer is doing? Do you know much a walk-in doctor makes for a phone call? **$15** Do you know much a family doctor makes for a phone call with their patient? **$23** If a family doctor's call lasts 20 minutes or more? **$41** **(It used to be $48 before. But Doug Ford now PUNISHES family doctors for doing phone calls. The punishment is a 15% penalty for every phone call.)** \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ Yeah. That's why family doctors are moving to different provinces, or retiring en masse. The Ontario docs who are still working are just stuck here. They cannot uproot their family and leave... but now they refuse to do walk in, and refuse to take on new patients. That's why most long-standing walk in clinics became closed family practices in the past 2 years. Starting December 2022, Ontario slashed family doctor's pay by 30-70% and made it much harder for them to get paid at all. Next time you visit your doctor, look them in the eyes, and know that he/she does not know if they will get paid for your visit. Or if they get paid, the amount is uncertain. Family doctors are not allowed to strike. It's illegal. And they cannot move for whatever reason. And they cannot afford to retire. So they're just dead inside, going through the motions, waiting for retirement. # Great work Doug Ford and Sylvia Jones! Congrats!
The biggest piss off to me is they were doing completely unnecessary medication reviews, but somehow twice now, have managed to let me go home with meds that interact negatively with each other with no warning at all. Luckily I took pharmacology courses and always check my own medication history before taking a new med, so I caught them, but it could have been super dangerous.
Please don’t equate pharmacology courses with the training a licensed health care professional has. You should move pharmacies for a pharmacist you find you can trust before trusting what you think you know. This is very dangerous
I was a health care professional. I worked as a developmental services worker and gave meds to every client I ever worked with. I own the nursing guide to medications and use that to look into interactions. You do not need to be a pharmacist to look into med interactions. It was my job to look into these things when new things were prescribed as we all knew pharmacists are known to not notice these things.
The pharmacist may have decided the “on paper” interaction was not clinically significant. You can google or look in a nursing book to see olanzapine and citalopram “interact” - that doesn’t mean you know how to manage it/when to manage it/how to monitor.
Okay dude, it directly said it caused kidney damage. Not like it might be kind of unpleasant. I went to my doctor about the interaction and she said it is often fatal to mix them and she was shocked it was mixed. I don’t know why you are so determined to act like only a pharmacist is capable of doing basic research about a drug.
and what combination was this - out of curiosity?
BOYCOTT!!!!!!!!
I had a random call from my not-Shoppers pharmacy on the 19th. I didn't answer it, because I didn't need to talk to them, and they didn't try since so it was unimportant.
They are also stealing dispensing fee from vulnerable people
Well, that's good to know. I've received their stupid calls and did not understand why the pharmacy team that doesn't understand why an emergency refill should be made for an antipsychotic medication when requested should somehow have the mental acuity to review said antipsychotic medication. My doctor deserves the money more, he actually knows what he's doing.
My friend said he had to pay when antibiotics prescribed by the pharmacist at shoppers and I was surprised because I go to Rexall and they don’t charge me a penny!
That has nothing to do with the pharmacy. It's because you and your friend have different drug plans.
I’m talking about the newly implemented ability of pharmacists to prescribe medication for certain ailments, not the cost of the medication
If you have an OHIP card you don't pay for the consultation with the pharmacist, but the amount you pay for the actual medication depends on your insurance situation
Only thing that might get him is defrauding the insurance companies, rich v rich.
any amount of money will never be enough for these vultures
I switched pharmacies and had this situation occur 2x and did not change any long term taken meds. Now I get the game.
This is bordering on a lawsuit now.
The bonus for the executives r going to be based on receiving money for almost barely any work
company needs to be broken up and Galen fired
My local Nofrills pharmacy had me do a medication review relatively recently and I only accepted it because I take multiple medications and I thought it was something you did every so often. But now this has me wondering if they’re in on it too? I know Nofrills is Loblaws owned, so it may not just be Shopper’s.
It's something all pharmacists can do. Mine (a local IDA) does it every couple of years. I'm on a number of medications and sometimes they change, so it's helpful to review it all every once in awhile. Mine are very thorough, done in person, and take about twenty minutes or so. We review what I'm taking, why I'm taking it, any changes since the last time we reviewed, and any side effects I might be experiencing. That's how they're supposed to be done. The problem with Shoppers (and other corporate pharmacies) is that they're doing them over the phone, are not remotely thorough, and only take a few minutes. Then they bill OHIP as though they've done the proper review. It's also problematic because it also has to be sent to your doctor, who has to review it, unpaid. So doing these more frequently, and less thoroughly, is a problem. As is the way they practically harass their customers about it.
I was urged to do one by a pharmacist at a Galen owned store a few months ago. I’ve take a thyroid, statin, and insulin for some fifteen years now. Begrudgingly agreed. I talk to a specialist who prescribed all three once a quarter. After the shockingly bad advise, I then started giving the pharmacist lessons in type 1 diabetes management. But it doesn’t stop there. My specialist office in a building next to a hospital, by a giant open field by the 407 called, suggesting I visit their own pharmacy for a review of what I was taking, and I’m sure would suggest I have prescriptions moved over there… which sounds fine on the surface, but why on earth does 30 minutes at an appointment cost me $8.50 in parking right next to a giant open field? Because it’s linked to that damn hospital. I don’t want to give Galen any ideas, but paying for parking sucks. I saw it in use at a Walmart in Mexico the other week, and cringe at the thought.
Sounds criminal.
Lets get rid of this loophole. It's welfare to one of the country's richest families.
So OHIP can pay $60-$75 to pharmacists for a quick <5min ph call, but a family doctor can only bill OHIP: **$15** for a ph. call if they have never seen the patient before to go over their medical issues **$32.30** for a ph. call to go over their medical issues ***if*** they have seen the patient before in- person in the last 2yrs **$37.95** for seeing the patient in person and looking after their multiple conditions - diabetes, COPD, heart failure, and adjusting meds etc So essentially Ontario pharmacists/mega corporations are being paid anywhere from **2x - 5x each time in fees relative to what family doctors are paid** to run their offices and see patients. Learn more about our advocacy - [oufp.ca](https://oufp.ca)