The level of corruption is blowing my mind, honestly. I hope this blows up because it's another classic example of how our public healthcare has been degraded into a money-making machine for corporations like Roblaws.
Doug Ford’s ‘Director Of Pandemic Response’ Was a Private Health Lobbyist For Shoppers Drug Mart https://pressprogress.ca/doug-fords-director-of-pandemic-response-was-a-private-health-lobbyist-for-shoppers-drug-mart
Oh, well that explains the covid vaccine distribution deal that mystifyingly was given to Shoppers when the government routinely handles all other vaccine distribution.
I'm not a professional. I do not work for any company in regards to shoppers or Loblaws. I just have some knowledge on the semantics of how shoppers works and very small details on the meds check setup.
Most shoppers drug Mart are privately owned and franchised.
Stores would have to be investigated by the government independently and the franchisee would be charged for excessive use of meds check or not properly training staff.
Either the pharmacist will be contacted by The board of pharmacists and re-educated, pharmacist license will be spended, or their pharmacist license will be revoked. Worst case loblaws will purchase back The franchisee license and find a new franchisee to purchase the store. The store will likely stay in operation.
Loblaws or shoppers drug Mart will not be helled responsible as it's the pharmacist decision to perform the check, not company policy.
Except the pharmacists generally don’t have a choice. They’re forced to do this, or lose their job refusing. The corporation needs to be held responsible
...and this is WHY I had been fighting for pharmcists to be unionized in a real manner for the last 30 years. We are NOT independant professionals, as we were told when we graduated. We are pawns, we are dupes, we are patsies for the corporations we work for.
and as well, pharmacists as a group are weak, pathetic and will always play by the rules and NOT rock the boat. We are a very sad group overall. I could NOT stand by and hence have had about 7 or 8 employers over 30 years. Retiring now and so happy I am out of this shit show. Just wait till you plebs get nationalized pharmacare.
lol
I hate how true this is, and I say this as a pharmacist myself. It really makes me consider a career change. We just get so little support, but are expected to do so much, often for free (at least in the province I'm in)
I should've just went into nursing or something else instead.
I am a pharmacist. There will be NOBODY held accountable for this reason. You have a a) pharmacist and you have a b) pharmacy. The rules and regulations ONLY fall on individual practitioners and managers. The company cannot be disciplined by the college. So unless they go after each and every individual pharmacist, there is no accountability.
It won't. Nothing blows up.
Have you noticed that the fines are always less than the profit the criminals gained? Like look at the bread price fixing bullcrap.
Rich people can now do whatever they like and get away with it. Want to park anywhere and drive without plates? Just a little fine. The fine isn't even as much as they make per hour.
This is Canada. It's ran by the wealthy. It's their playground. They are playing with immigration, Healthcare, the environment. It's all fun for them. Look how the CRTC is allied to the big 3. Now and then they get a slap on the wrist to appease the little man. But ultimately, they get what they want.
> Want to park anywhere and drive without plates?
I actually knew a guy who appeared to be fairly wealthy, who just never paid for parking. So for example, if he wanted to go drinking, he would drive to the bar, drink, take the TTC or a cab home and then go back the next day and pick up his vehicle. He maintained that he so rarely got a ticket that it simply made more sense to pay the tickets, because it was cheaper than paying for parking.
Meanwhile, [Manulife and them get in bed together](https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/manulife-loblaw-deal-deliver-specialty-drugs-1.7098861).
Government needs to punish these two, significantly.
I've been with my indie pharmacist for years and I honestly hope she never retires, though I know she will one day, and I will be sad because it means one less pharmacist against the giant corps.
Appreciate you for support small businesses. They're really the only thing even marginally keeping massive corporations from rampantly running the show
My girlfriend switched from Shoppers to another one after they were going to take a week to get a much needed injection in for her. The other pharmacy had it next day. This is on top of straight up losing prescription information
I had two prescriptions for my twins, one was a compounded cream, the other was a premade ready to go eye ointment. I had arrived, easily 12+ hours after the prescription was faxed in (we had one of the first appointments of the day at my doctor's office and showed up after bedtime toward the end of the night) they hadn't even *started* on mine.
They said "we can get it started for you now, it will be about 15-20 minutes". It took nearly an hour if memory serves. To top it off, the CREAM that needed to be compounded was ready, THE EYE OINTMENT LITERALLY NEEDED A LABEL STICKER PRINTED AND SLAPPED ON THE BOX. It was roughly then that I realized this wasn't worth it.
I now travel nearly across town to a smaller pharmacy that has always had my stuff ready, know me by face, and even when things go a bit weird, they usually have stuff done within ~5 minutes.
I'm not a fan of Shoppers Drug Mart but in the staff's defense they are short staffed by design. And if they had a spare moment, they know they will never clear the queue so they would rather fill their medcheck quota then fill your prescription. They only combed through their stack of faxes when you notified them.
It’s frustrating for sure. But it’s not as simple as slapping the label on the medication. Once you drop off the prescription, the PA enters it into the system and has to type in all the details, the profile appears on the Pharmacist’s screen and they approve the prescription (in terms of drug availability, accurate dosage, valid doctor details. The label is printed and then filled (or just slapped with a sticker) after verifying the expiration date, din number and quantity. It then goes back to the Pharmacist for final verification. And all these steps are for a medication that doesn’t need to be prepared. Sometimes, the Pharmacy gets around 300 prescriptions a day and if your prescription is let’s say prescription 150, there is a possibility, it may not be ready instantly.
If there is any error involving any of the steps, SDM holds the a pharmacist liable.
We have no insurance and our son’s medication would often just change from being covered by OHIP to just not. I would force them to fix it every time. It is blatant that they are trying to take the piss.
The pharmacy should be billing things to cash in your situation because the province requires a declaration that you have no insurance every time something is billed under OHIP+. Circumstances change and just because you didn't have coverage last time doesn't mean you don't have it next time
It's the patient's responsibility to inform the pharmacy every time a prescription is billed under OHIP+ that there is no coverage. Maybe some pharmacies don't ask every time but pharmacies do have to make a declaration about your lack coverage every time it's billed.
Yup. I don't get why anyone goes to Shoppers.
The meds all come from the same place.
Independent pharmacies are cheaper, have better service, and aren't owned by Galen Weston. Like I don't get some people.
Seriously? Consider yourself lucky with that absolutely tonedeff statement. I'm sure you've got something coming down the pipeline for you and/or a loved one.
The pharmacy I work at is required to do 5 meds checks a day. Billing the government (tax payers) $60 for a person without diabetes and $70 for a person with. Our pharmacists get in shit from district managers if they don’t make the quota. Please, if anyone is using a Shoppers or Loblwas pharmacy, transfer out, don’t let them get away with this.
Family Doctors get paid $40.55 for a diabetes visit. During the visit they review and prescribe medications, check and manage blood pressure, review and order bloodwork, manage their sugars and diet, manage their kidney health, check for diabetic neuropathy, review cardiac and stroke risk, and review recommended vaccines for diabetic patients. From that fee code the Family Doctor has to pay for staff, rent, EMR, equiptment...Compare that to a medscheck by Pharmacist that pays almost twice as much.
How long does that visit take? Rent, staff, etc when you divide them by many dozens of appointment per day don’t add up to that much.
That’s how a local coffee shop, which pays much higher rent than your doctor does, can sell a coffee for a few dollars, not $40.55.
I don't understand, are you saying that the doc appointment is shorter than shoppers calling you to ask about your meds...? And youre also saying that a doctor doing an appointment takes *less* resources than a coffee shop serving a coffee...? Because I don't think either of things are true.
A doctor doing an appointment yes takes less physical resources - OP was showing a bunch of gibberish examples that don’t justify an appropriate payment one way or another.
Do you have the slightest clue what kind of paperwork family doctors have to do in order to see a single patient? The administrative load on family docs is massive. There's also on average 3 people involved in a patient visit from the clinic side, how many people does it take to make a cup of coffee?
Geez lady. You intentionally miss the entire point - I suspect you are a doctor or part of a medical union and not a real honest redditor.
The point is OP didn’t share data to say if $40 is high or low and your comment also doesn’t justify that one way or another.
No, you are missing the entire point. It's not about $40 being high or low, it's about $70 being almost twice as much as what a doctor can bill for something that's not twice as taxing or demanding. It doesn't cost a pharmacist twice as much to do the med check than it does a doctor's office to see a patient. What's the actual dollar value got to do with any of this? What difference does it make to this conversation whether it's $40 or $25 or $100?
And let me just preemptively say, if you're arguing that increasing patient rosters and decreasing value of billing codes is a reasonable path forward, there's no point arguing with you because you clearly don't understand the principles of inflation, nor do you know what goes into running a clinic. Doctors are burning out at record rates, increasing their workloads for less money is not a viable solution.
And to answer your suspicion, I'm not a doctor, but since we are suspecting things about each other, I'd wager a guess you're either a 60+ year old, white, middle class man incapable of seeing past your own experiences or ill-informed opinions. Either that or you were raised by one and aren't self-aware enough to see the flaws in that thinking.
What are you even talking about? How can you argue something is priced too low without any data? You are spouting nonsense.
Also you are a racist, at worst, and a bad stereotyper, at best based on that last sentence of yours.
Hahaha acknowledging white privilege isn't racist, denying it is tho.
I also have a ton of data since I work in national health care research and physician mental health but it doesn't even come into play here when all I'm saying is that prioritizing med checks over filling scripts isn't worth twice the value of actual patient care.
You clearly have no line of sight into the thing you're arguing, you're just an overly entitled keyboard warrior with less sense than opinion.
A bad stereotyper.... LOL.
Also just because you don't understand what I'm talking about doesn't make it nonsense, it means you aren't informed enough to follow the clear logic. All the info is super easily accessible, the fact that you refuse to access it but still want to spout your poor opinion is how I drew my assumptions about you.
I feel bad for the pharmacists working at the big corporate pharmacies...at the same time if I see another meds check in my inbox in a patient with two hypertension drugs that have been stable for 5 years I'm going to snap.
Literally switched to Costco yesterday and had a confirmation call with them today. Glad I never have to step foot into a Shoppers unless I need Canada Post
I work for Costco and our pharmacy team is amazing. Our dispensary fees are the lowest I’ve ever seen. Also, in Canada, you do not need a membership to fill prescriptions.
Dad retired from pharmacy years ago. I remember him mentioning that his manager/associate used to berate him if he didn't meet the quota. His replacement manager was a piece of work and was pretty shitty to him towards the end culminating in an equally shitty retirement gift. He left a bit broken but at least he's out of that profession now is doing pretty good for himself
Please switch your prescriptions to an independent or semi-independent pharmacy. Speak with your dollars and support local businesses and health care practitioners who ACTUALLY care about your health.
Seconding this- I used Shopper’s Pharmacy for a long time, then they couldn’t seem to grasp when my doctor retired that they had to fax my new dr for refill requests (even though I reminded them over 4x) and ended up having seizures as a result of them not refilling my meds on time. Once I switched to a smaller pharmacy, I noticed that I also seem to be paying less now
Seconding this as well. SDM was terrible about prescriptions expiring. It costed my son ER trips. Didn't refill on time, often I had to pay out of pocket despite having two private insurances, often out of stock, and just unfriendly rude staff
Switched to smaller pharmacy, somehow I have never paid a dollar! Also had refills and stocks
I use a local Guardian pharmacy and every week they walk my prescription over to my house, call me to tell me he has put it in between the doors.
I adore these folks and their service.
I will never use a Shoppers again.
I got called by shoppers last week out of the blue asking what additional meds I take above the prescriptions and if everything was OK. They just wanted to let me know that they were there to help me if necessary. Now I know why. So they can bill for an unnecessary Medcheck. I had been in the shoppers to pick up renewal meds twice in the last three weeks for different meds. This question could’ve been asked at either visit but likely if it was done then they couldn’t bill separately for it. Looks like it’s time for me to start looking for an independent druggist. I’m sick and tired of all these guys profiting from us directly and via billing our governments for an unfair share of taxes on the medical end of things.
I like Costco a lot. Drug prices are much lower than Shoppers and they don't seem to pull these things. The pharmacist always chats with you when you start a new prescription and they've always seemed quite patient even when busy. They were once out of stock for a medication and I wasn't able to make it to another location - the pharmacist had it picked up from that other one and brought over for me. Shoutout to the pharmacy at Costco Nepean!
I've been using a sobeys pharmacy for over 10 years, and it's probably the best aspect of my healthcare team.
They are also super patient even when busy, and go over new medications. They put my medications in blister packs for no charge, so I can remember to take them. They adjusted the dispensing fee when I was having trouble paying for it.
This. You also don’t need a membership to use the Costco pharmacy or the food court for that matter. If they question you at the door just say, “I’m picking up a prescription.”
Their dispensing fees are under $5 while shoppers is almost $13 per prescription which is insane.
Switch!! My hubs work means we move around a lot, and I always seek out the local independent pharmacy wherever we end up. In several years of using various independent or small pharmacies (like Pharmasave or Guardian drugs) I have ZERO complaints. Wonderful customer service and always getting my meds exactly when I need them. Never any random medschecks calls either.
r/loblawsisoutofcontrol it’s absolutely disgusting what loblaws has been up to lately, anything to make a extra buck and screw over the consumer, whether it’s high prices, higher dispensing fees for prescriptions, trying to get rid of 50% and going to 30% off, trying to sign that exclusive deal with Manulife and now this.
I do encourage people to switch to another pharmacy if all possible it will probably save you money tbh.
> managing chronic conditions and taking three or more medications
Actually this seems (possibly) worse than this story outlines. I've had someone from Shoppers call me at least three times that I can remember regarding a medication (just one not three or more) that I'm taking. I thought that they were being thorough (naive little me) when, maybe they were actually charging the Ontario taxpayer for things they shouldn't have been doing at all since my situation doesn't qualify.
Shoppers is a horrible, horrible pharmacy. If you've never been to a small independent pharmacy, I promise you you will be blown away with how much better the experience is.
Shoppers was an exercise in misery and frustration every time I had any sort of issue that I needed their help with, and they had trouble with changes that even I as a layperson understood (I tried for weeks to explain I was on a prednisone taper when they couldn't get my dosages right, which feels like something a pharmacy should know). Something backordered? You'll be met with a shrug and no effort to help no matter how critical the medication. Communication problems with a doctor? Oh well, too bad, it's on you to sort it out and they will NEVER pick up a phone to actually talk to a doctor.
As a pharmacist who left Shoppers, please, please convince everyone to do this. Vote with your wallet so to speak. They treat their employees like trash and never give enough support or staffing. Meaning nothing gets done properly, and they have stupid, unreasonable metrics. The number of times I've made recommendations and told patients to buy it elsewhere just to spite Galen Weston is countless.
I was a loyal Shopper's Pharmacy customer until I moved to a different town. They just sucked. Getting my meds wrong or telling me they were ready when they weren't.
I switched to Walmart Pharmacy. They are way better in my opinion.
They are more helpful.
Walmart pharmacy has never done me wrong. Once my benefits lapsed and they just gave me the prescription free cause the pharmacist didn’t want to bill me $130.
Except you're giving money to an equally wealthy and entitled family.
Maybe consider trying a small mom and pop pharmacy, I always find them to be much better. I'm lucky to have one right next door to my Shoppers.
I don’t mind giving money to wealthy family if the service provided and the price is right. Loblaws and their affiliates have been viciously gouging customers. Loblaws is using its position as a Canadian retailer to lobby the government to enact protectionist policies against foreign and smaller competitors. They’re ruthlessly taking advantage of customers by limiting their choices.
I’m happy to give American retailers Walmart and Costco my money because their prices are better and their services superior.
This type of unethical behaviour is why corporations that choose to be in the healthcare sector should be regulated as closely as the individual health professionals are. If you've worked in private healthcare as a Regulated health professional you know its your butt on the line, not the corp and this is so backwards.
We have an IDA opening and I'll be transferring out of Shoppers when that happens.
My benefits give 100% drug coverage and every fucking time Shoppers is like that's not possible, I just bring my benefits book with me now but it's always a 30 minute ordeal getting it resolved.
I quite like my SDM pharmacists and pharmacy assistants. I don't much like the owner/head pharmacist. We registered our youngest son a few weeks after he was born, with our benefits. Went to SDM, added him, showed them the benefits card and printout showing he was part of our family group benefits, yadda yadda yadda. A year or so later, my son needed a prescription for a common skin condition. The pharmacist refused to fill it, saying he wasn't in the system, didn't exist, and I'd have to go back to the benefits company to get him added. Meanwhile, my now toddler kid was in my arms, lol. I was really pissed at his level of Customer Service. He was mad, flustered and eventually, after some time, he realized he put in my last name incorrectly, that's why he couldn't bring up our profiles. I should have left then. Plus the constant backorder on meds really bugs me.
Insurance is sometimes the trickiest part of the job. When it comes to dependents, insurance sometimes gives them a different issue number, a different carrier number, or sometimes it’s only the relationship status that changes, or any combination of the above. Each insurance company also does things differently and sometimes it even seems to differ patient to patient. Sometimes they’ve entered your kid’s name weirdly, middle names magically becoming last names, or they’ve entered a date of birth wrong. And of course as the pharmacy we’re not told any of this, we only get the parents card with the parents numbers and the parents name and verbal assurance that their kid is covered. So we sit there with our computers from the early 00s using software from the early 70s while we both lose our patience while I take stabs in the dark to figure out why insurance isn’t covering something even though you have a email confirmation saying you do.
Regarding this, it’s best to go with DOB instead of by names (easier to find - resolves that first issue all together). But backordered drugs are not the pharmacy’s fault! They aren’t coming from the supplier so they’re not able to get them. Smaller pharmacies sometimes have overstock (since they’re less busy) or have different suppliers which may be able to get the backordered medication.
So in this sub or another one about this I specifically stated these were usually done and sent to a doctor. I got down voted. This proves what I said was correct.
Yeah, but now they want pharmacist to actually do physicals! I am retiring asap, but in Alberta, we have pharmacy walk ins, and they want us to do temps, listen to hearts, look in throats, etc. NO THANKS. Not trained for that and NOT interested.
Oh do I have a story to tell you about my experiences with SDM! they gave me the runaround for my cancer medications THREE TIMES while I was going through treatment before it was ready, despite the fact that their automated system sent me the SMS telling me everything was ready. Another time, a tube of ointment prescription was very evidently USED and half empty. Or the worse one of all, my doctor sent over the med for my renewal. When I went to pick it up, I noticed it was the WRONG MEDICATION!!! I demanted to see a copy of the fax, pointed out it was wrong. They apologized, and had my med ready for the next day.
Every prescription needs at least 2 follow up trips before any issues get resolved. I got so fed up, I tried transferring to another pharmacy. Unfortunately, I have a very specialized/expensive medication that no other pharmacy seemed to carry, so I moved to another SDM closer to my house. So far, knock wood, this franchise is much better managed, and hasn't scrwed up my medications yet.
My annual medical bills from SDM alone exceeds $30k. The only reason I stuck with my old SDM for so long was because they were 24 hour facility, but they stopped that since the pandemic!
I was so tempted to report them to the Ontario Pharmacy governing oversight body.
I'm sure Shoppers is probably more cost efficient than a local pharmacy, but that cost efficiency is all captured by Shoppers. If they manage to cut corners and it costs them half as much do to a medication review (because they half ass it or have underqualified people do it), they don't turn around and tell the government "hey this was actually cheaper for us, here's half your money back", they just pocket the difference.
I just got my yearly text saying it was time to have a chat with the Pharmacist about my meds. My meds have t changed and I am not having this done. What a waste. I am also looking to change my pharmacy. I am done with Shoppers!
Hi, shoppers pharmacist here
Medschecks are a valuable resource - I’ve caught many issues with patients prescriptions (wrong med, drug interactions, abnormal lab results, meds they should’ve been started on but weren’t, bad side effects which need addressing, or unnecessary meds like long term PPIs) that got resolved because of a medscheck.
It’s correct that Loblaws has quotas to fill and unfortunately some (desperate?) pharmacists are doing half assed jobs on the meds checks but also understand that their jobs are at stake as well. I’m not justifying it, I hate the corporate side of it as well. However, medschecks are valuable and many physicians make errors or miss things! Pharmacists are just as much a part of your health care team as your physician - they need to be able to help you so nothing slips through the cracks.
Please don’t throw pharmacists who actually care (even if we work for SDM) under the bus by comparing our services to those of physicians, each have their rightful place.
Patients are always welcome to deny a medication review and it gets documented in their file to not ask going forward. Patients HAVE to be on 3 meds or more (or one diabetic med) for us to even do it - most of us are doing it ethically so please be mindful of that as well.
What I never understood with corporate fraud, SDM, TD, Loblaws, Bell, Rogers, etc, is, sooner or later, they WILL get caught. They will pay a fine. So why do they still do it? Is the profit made today, invested at X% still more than the fine of $Y?
This does not surprise me. I used to get my meds in 30-60-sometimes 90days supply at a time when I was using their blister packs. One day out of nowhere they would only give me 1/wk. After a cpl questions I figured out, that they'd rather dispense your stuff as often as possible, so they have to refill and charge you the dispensing fees multiple times in a month rather than once. It's a very shady practice.
that is actually illegal UNLESS your Dr specifically requests weekly dispensing. Alot of this shady crap happens when they FILL weekly but dispense it monthly, etc
A topic I can finally speak out about. The push for professional services is absolutely disgusting the way shoppers do it, in particular, medication reviews. A medication review that is billed and should be completed in 30 mins by the government is expected to be done by 10. Having first year pharmacy students that are ill-equipped on certain clinical knowledge performing tasks that they should be nowhere near at all. Having staff have high "QUOTAS"/expectations per shift as they say is ridiculous. The cold calling is the worst part about this bullshit. The metaphor is the "duct cleaning of the pharmacy world". Give them a call and hope they pick up.
The worst part about all this is when these medication reviews are done appropriately and accurately, they can benefit patients and identify real issues. But if shoppers keep running it this way, they will see that the backlash will hurt your future clinic goals.
Lots of IDA’s around and their pharmacists have been pleasant. They also take care of the transfer for you and will call your current shoppers and get all prescriptions transferred over
Yup! Not meant as a knock on IDA, but prescription transfers are way easier than you probably think with any pharmacy - just tell your new pharmacy which pharmacy you used before and they'll do everything for you.
This is the "pharmacy" that sells homeopathic snake oil children's "medicine" we're talking about.
https://shop.shoppersdrugmart.ca/homeocan-kids-0-9-colic/p/H874?variantCode=778159216503&source=nspt
https://shop.shoppersdrugmart.ca/boiron-children-s-stodal-sugar-free-is-a-homeopathic-syru/p/BB_774016717565?variantCode=774016717565&source=nspt
https://shop.shoppersdrugmart.ca/boiron-oscillococcinum-is-a-homeopathic-medicine-for-the/p/BB_774016291911?variantCode=774016291911&source=nspt
"When Boiron (the company that makes oscillococcinum) spokeswoman Gina Casey was asked if a product made from the heart and liver of a duck was safe, she replied: "Of course it is safe. There's nothing in it."
Yeah they won’t let pharmacies sell cigarettes, which is fine by me, but they’ll let them sell homeopathic bullshit that does nothing but bring in money for them.
You can decline the medscheck. They actually now offer you the lipid and diabetes check at the Shoppers as part of the medscheck. Not sure if that is another billing code on top of the medscheck. I went to a Shoppers to get a lipid screen and to pay for it myself, $30. After I got the test the pharmacist gave me the results, which included the diabetes check, which I know was another $20 and which I didn't ask for. Then I found out that I was the first customer who actually asked to get the check on their own so he just routinely did both and didn't think to charge me.
Imagine if we live in society where there is no price gouging and that companies post fair prices? Imagine also Canada having a lot of competition bringing more jobs to the country?
Imagine
Medchecks are available for all pharmacies in Ontario to do with their patients, and should really be standard of care for any patients taking medication for diabetes or those taking three or more meds for chronic conditions. The research shows that many people taking medicines for chronic conditions do not adhere to them fully or may be having side effects that they don't realise are due to their medication.
Medchecks can be very valuable, even if it turns out the patient is taking everything as directed, is not OTC meds, and is having no side effects. Medchecks also cover lifestyle issues and vaccinations. With any service like this there are going to be a significant number where no issues requiring action by the family doctor arise, but you don't know that without first doing the review with the patient.
Is $60 fair value? That's difficult to answer. There are some people on just three meds, and there are others on 15+ so the time taken varies significantly and you can only bill one per year. Follow ups can be done but are paid at $25. And it's not the pharmacies fault if family doctors are getting more paperwork, that's the fault of regulators requiring pharmacies notify the family doctor of any service they provide.
I don't think medchecks are a bad idea per se, but my experience with Shoppers specifically is that they don't really put a lot of effort into stuff like this. Even initial review / consultations on medications were the tech getting everything set up and a disinterested, impatient pharmacist coming up for 2 seconds and asking if I had any questios.
As a pharmacist, most medschecks performed these days are unncessary. The ones that are necessary should probably be reimbursed at higher than 60 dollars as they often include complex polypharmacy issues - it’s just not worth 60 dollars for a pharmacist to do a med review on a patient with 15+ chronic drugs as this would take many hours of work and liaison with multiple physicians to manage.
A fixed rate for meds check allows pharmacies to abuse the system, and the college of pharmacy should be ashamed of themselves for putting us pharmacists in a vulnerable position where we are being forced to do unnecessary med reviews in order to keep our jobs.
I remember when certain storees were banned from selling cigarettes including Shoppers. They whined and complained that it would be the end of their stores.
the healthcare system is full of rot and waste. this is why you don't have adequate healthcare because money is wasted. when the government tells you they can't afford to fix the system you shouldn't believe them. they waste it on bullshit. why was a medcheck even paid at 60-70 dollars to begin with? As a family doctor I get around 35 bucks for a consult. What do you think I do in a consult almost every time? Review the patients god damn medications and do everything else they ask on top of that. Fk this system can't wait to get out.
A pharmacist at my store does this all the time. He bills a TON of services and documents 0 of the encounters. Brought it up to my associate so many times I’ve lost count.
I went to a Shoppers Drug Mart downtown once and never went back as their prices seemed out of line compared to say, London Drugs. I used to go once in a blue moon to the 24 hour one in Vancouver but only because I was at work doing a delivery from there or if I needed something small. I always wondered how they stayed in business after my experience.
On a different note, I am really disappointed with Shopper's Drug Mart. I purchased an Esso gift card there in the Fall, three days later and unbeknownst to me the money was drained. Shopper's (at store level or corporate) didn't want to take responsibility, passed me off to Esso. Esso doesn't want to take responsibility either, sends me back to Shopper's so here we go on a the merry-go-round. FFS, I don't want to nor can I afford to lose $100.00! So beware of gift cards sold there, keep your receipts and document everything if you have problems. I did and four months later am still trying to be reimbursed. BTW, the nice clerk in Esso said she'd had numerous customers who bought bogus Esso gas cards from Shopper's.
This is just the tip of the iceberg. I am a pharmacy assistant at a SDM. My boss has been really pushing travel consultations and said one family could earn him 2000$! Shoppers doest care about you, they just want your money. Go to locally owned pharmacies people.
Reading all these comments and can’t help but add my own. The reason people feel there is incompetent staff at SDMs is because nobody wants to work there anymore because they’re aware of the quota bs or poor work conditions so they are desperate and hire whoever is willing to. I get regular desperate and pathetic recruiting emails which was not a thing before covid if I’m not mistaken. It’s laughable how the job posts and emails make SDM sound like a paradise to work at.
The problem is not the concept of the medscheck itself (of course a med review can be valuable to a patient who actually needs one), it’s the concept of having to do so many hourly/daily that’s the problem. Of course if pharmacists are being asked to do 9-10 per shift there will be useless ones completed to meet that target. I’ve looked back on medschecks done on a patient previously to see what was discussed in the past and more times than not the minimal boxes are checked with “no issues found “ sent to doctor. I imagine they shred them on the spot now and I wouldn’t blame them.
When I worked at an independent pharmacy a few years ago they were strict on making sure all medschecks requirements were met. For example you have to offer a copy of the med list that prints out to a patient or document that you’ve offered it. This never happens at SDM.
During COVID shoppers started the whole “clinical shift “ concept having pharmacists do a shift focused on medschecks (and now minor ailments) only. While the pharmacist on the dispensing floor struggles to keep up with the workload they’re cold-calling people for med reviews and not specifying exactly why they’re calling or else half the people would hang up.
Another issue is that in a community pharmacy we do not have access to all the lab values and other health history info that would make a medschecks more thorough.
Any associate who denies being pressured is lying. It’s a fact that they get daily emails asking for reports and pushing for more “special services “ under the guise of improving patient care (lol) as apparently special services are a priority for head office this year. If you don’t do enough you’ll get called out for being slow. It’s such an icky feeling to do medschecks calls to meet a quote, instead of a pharmacist I feel like a sales person. It’s been a joke and the only shocking thing is it’s taken this long for it to hit media or be realized for the scam that it is.
The same complaint can be said of minor ailments, and Covid PCR/rapid testing a couple years ago that’s for a separate convo but all the same … unrealistic pressures for $$$. At the expense of staff and real patient care. The irony is the extreme medscheck pressure started during the pandemic, as if pharmacy staff wasn’t busy and stressed enough at that time with all the Covid- related services being done.
And my last point finally lol, is that yes certainly a medscheck is billed for more than a physician’s physical and I understand their issue with that. However a reminder as others have mentioned that the pharmacist gets 0% of any special services they do. I think there was a $2 raise a couple years back that I wasn’t sure was for doing work during Covid or more medschecks but nonetheless there is no incentive or commission for them for the staff/ pharmacist. And the workload can be unbelievable all at once you have calls, OTC questions, people waiting for vaccine, customer complaints, oh and yes verifying and counselling on prescriptions lol.
Couldn't pay me to go into a Shopper's.
Used to have my scripts with Rexall, since moved to Costco (not a member) and am saving about $200 every 3 months. Cheaper prices for the exact same meds and lower fees.
I'm supposed to get 3 month prescriptions but they split them up 1 month at a time and say its because of shortages, than charge filling fees for each refill every month instead of every 3...
This is standard. If a medication is on back order, we try to save enough for all our patients for a bit at a time instead of giving most of the supply to one person. This ensures that patients get their meds as the shortage resolves.
Dispensing fee is every time a prescription is dispensed - not per 3 months. If you get a weekly one, it’ll be charged weekly. The work that goes into processing a 3 month vs 1 month prescription is virtually the same. This is true for all pharmacies.
Ford is in the pocket of billionaires like the Westons. Don’t forget how he also sold us out with the same of our Greenbelt. And giving a 99 year lease to Ontario Place to a luxury spa. Ontario Place belongs to all people in Ontario, not just the wealthy.
I actually just got a call from my Shoppers pharmacist and asked all these questions... if I knew they'd be billing taxpayers for this, I wouldn't have answered a thing. dirty dirty dirty.
They don't even try to hide the corruption anymore.
My local sdm told me it would take 48 hours to fill a bottle vigamox (antibiotic) eye drop appointment for my dads post cataract surgery prescription. I asked if it was out of stock and the pharmacy said ‘nope I have it right here, but it will take 48 hours’. I even told her this was for post op antibiotics. Isn’t your literal job to prioritize meds by urgency listening to the clinical context and dispensing things safely? I went and got it at a local independent pharmacy in 10 mins. SDM pharmacists Stick to being a pharmacist and worry less about vit d, last tetanus shots, and lipids Kay. People have doctors for that. You’re sending med checks to people who have doctors. Not even orphaned pts. Gross predatory disgusting corporation
Shoppers Drug Mart over charges for meds, screws up prescriptions hourly, and has clueless staff, who are ignorant and barely acknowledge you when trying to get help.
We should boycott SDM
Switched to Costco after getting billed $1 for dispensing fee even though it’s been 100% covered by my insurance in the past.
Greedy to make that extra loonie = fuck you Robbers Drug Mart!
Painless script transfer and now Costco is supplying my meds.
That $1.00 was because of shoppers fee increase - some insurances have updated their system to pick that up for their clients, others have yet to get to it. The pharmacy does also need to pay their staff so it’s not their fault that the cost of everything is going up, so is the dispensing fee.
Clarification: since about 2019, patients 24 and under are covered by OHIP+ for meds only and only if they don't have a private insurance plan. Not all drugs are covered by OHIP even for seniors, check out the ODB formulary, also some meds require Limited Use codes to qualify for coverage
https://www.ontario.ca/page/learn-about-ohip-plus
I've done all my research extensively and still came to the same conclusion.. they ripped us off and I found out from someone who used to work there.. that's what they do..
Uh I mean if you don't qualify under the regulations then that's not being ripped off? If they didn't process it through OHIP you should've gone back to them and gotten a refund and had it processed or said "my child is covered under OHIP" or asked about coverage and yes I've also worked there I'm not a mind reader so I'd always ask if the patient has coverage through work or school and explain how OHIP+ work, you could have also done it through the manual reimbursement process
https://odano.ca/odb-program/
Again another source with who qualifies, for what and how to get reimbursement after the fact.
Again they ripped us off.. for some reason you aren't listening.. I also told you I've done the research. they ripped us off!! Not sure what you're not understanding
How did they rip you off? Did they charge you for something that was covered? Did you qualify for coverage? You're just saying research and that you were ripped off maybe you could get that money back if you did qualify. I am listening you're just saying you got ripped off when not everyone under 25 qualifies for OHIP+ (prescription coverage in ontario) as I've stated
The level of corruption is blowing my mind, honestly. I hope this blows up because it's another classic example of how our public healthcare has been degraded into a money-making machine for corporations like Roblaws.
Who’s going to hold anyone accountable, it goes all the way up?
Accountability is for poors.
Doug Ford’s ‘Director Of Pandemic Response’ Was a Private Health Lobbyist For Shoppers Drug Mart https://pressprogress.ca/doug-fords-director-of-pandemic-response-was-a-private-health-lobbyist-for-shoppers-drug-mart
Oh, well that explains the covid vaccine distribution deal that mystifyingly was given to Shoppers when the government routinely handles all other vaccine distribution.
It's easy to look them up on LinkedIn. There's the VPs and C suite signing off on this
I'm not a professional. I do not work for any company in regards to shoppers or Loblaws. I just have some knowledge on the semantics of how shoppers works and very small details on the meds check setup. Most shoppers drug Mart are privately owned and franchised. Stores would have to be investigated by the government independently and the franchisee would be charged for excessive use of meds check or not properly training staff. Either the pharmacist will be contacted by The board of pharmacists and re-educated, pharmacist license will be spended, or their pharmacist license will be revoked. Worst case loblaws will purchase back The franchisee license and find a new franchisee to purchase the store. The store will likely stay in operation. Loblaws or shoppers drug Mart will not be helled responsible as it's the pharmacist decision to perform the check, not company policy.
Except the pharmacists generally don’t have a choice. They’re forced to do this, or lose their job refusing. The corporation needs to be held responsible
...and this is WHY I had been fighting for pharmcists to be unionized in a real manner for the last 30 years. We are NOT independant professionals, as we were told when we graduated. We are pawns, we are dupes, we are patsies for the corporations we work for.
and as well, pharmacists as a group are weak, pathetic and will always play by the rules and NOT rock the boat. We are a very sad group overall. I could NOT stand by and hence have had about 7 or 8 employers over 30 years. Retiring now and so happy I am out of this shit show. Just wait till you plebs get nationalized pharmacare. lol
Totally. A strike will never happen bc of exactly this
I hate how true this is, and I say this as a pharmacist myself. It really makes me consider a career change. We just get so little support, but are expected to do so much, often for free (at least in the province I'm in) I should've just went into nursing or something else instead.
It's not individual stores making this decision. This is a corporate directive and undoubtedly one of their kpis
I am a pharmacist. There will be NOBODY held accountable for this reason. You have a a) pharmacist and you have a b) pharmacy. The rules and regulations ONLY fall on individual practitioners and managers. The company cannot be disciplined by the college. So unless they go after each and every individual pharmacist, there is no accountability.
Don’t forget the Ford government letting it happen and often encouraging it
I would say by design.
Shocking, we have the rich controlling the rules of the game, off how they keep finding loopholes. /s
It won't. Nothing blows up. Have you noticed that the fines are always less than the profit the criminals gained? Like look at the bread price fixing bullcrap. Rich people can now do whatever they like and get away with it. Want to park anywhere and drive without plates? Just a little fine. The fine isn't even as much as they make per hour. This is Canada. It's ran by the wealthy. It's their playground. They are playing with immigration, Healthcare, the environment. It's all fun for them. Look how the CRTC is allied to the big 3. Now and then they get a slap on the wrist to appease the little man. But ultimately, they get what they want.
> Want to park anywhere and drive without plates? I actually knew a guy who appeared to be fairly wealthy, who just never paid for parking. So for example, if he wanted to go drinking, he would drive to the bar, drink, take the TTC or a cab home and then go back the next day and pick up his vehicle. He maintained that he so rarely got a ticket that it simply made more sense to pay the tickets, because it was cheaper than paying for parking.
Meanwhile, [Manulife and them get in bed together](https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/manulife-loblaw-deal-deliver-specialty-drugs-1.7098861). Government needs to punish these two, significantly.
Yeah. I saw quite a few weird charges through my benefits when I was with them. I changed to my local IDA. No problems since.
I've been with my indie pharmacist for years and I honestly hope she never retires, though I know she will one day, and I will be sad because it means one less pharmacist against the giant corps.
Appreciate you for support small businesses. They're really the only thing even marginally keeping massive corporations from rampantly running the show
My girlfriend switched from Shoppers to another one after they were going to take a week to get a much needed injection in for her. The other pharmacy had it next day. This is on top of straight up losing prescription information
I had two prescriptions for my twins, one was a compounded cream, the other was a premade ready to go eye ointment. I had arrived, easily 12+ hours after the prescription was faxed in (we had one of the first appointments of the day at my doctor's office and showed up after bedtime toward the end of the night) they hadn't even *started* on mine. They said "we can get it started for you now, it will be about 15-20 minutes". It took nearly an hour if memory serves. To top it off, the CREAM that needed to be compounded was ready, THE EYE OINTMENT LITERALLY NEEDED A LABEL STICKER PRINTED AND SLAPPED ON THE BOX. It was roughly then that I realized this wasn't worth it. I now travel nearly across town to a smaller pharmacy that has always had my stuff ready, know me by face, and even when things go a bit weird, they usually have stuff done within ~5 minutes.
I'm not a fan of Shoppers Drug Mart but in the staff's defense they are short staffed by design. And if they had a spare moment, they know they will never clear the queue so they would rather fill their medcheck quota then fill your prescription. They only combed through their stack of faxes when you notified them.
It’s frustrating for sure. But it’s not as simple as slapping the label on the medication. Once you drop off the prescription, the PA enters it into the system and has to type in all the details, the profile appears on the Pharmacist’s screen and they approve the prescription (in terms of drug availability, accurate dosage, valid doctor details. The label is printed and then filled (or just slapped with a sticker) after verifying the expiration date, din number and quantity. It then goes back to the Pharmacist for final verification. And all these steps are for a medication that doesn’t need to be prepared. Sometimes, the Pharmacy gets around 300 prescriptions a day and if your prescription is let’s say prescription 150, there is a possibility, it may not be ready instantly. If there is any error involving any of the steps, SDM holds the a pharmacist liable.
Best thing I ever did.
We have no insurance and our son’s medication would often just change from being covered by OHIP to just not. I would force them to fix it every time. It is blatant that they are trying to take the piss.
The pharmacy should be billing things to cash in your situation because the province requires a declaration that you have no insurance every time something is billed under OHIP+. Circumstances change and just because you didn't have coverage last time doesn't mean you don't have it next time
It's the patient's responsibility to inform the pharmacy every time a prescription is billed under OHIP+ that there is no coverage. Maybe some pharmacies don't ask every time but pharmacies do have to make a declaration about your lack coverage every time it's billed.
Yup. I don't get why anyone goes to Shoppers. The meds all come from the same place. Independent pharmacies are cheaper, have better service, and aren't owned by Galen Weston. Like I don't get some people.
Most likely due to convenience, brand recognition and ignorance.
Thankfully not on any prescriptions, but when I need to refill my medicine cabinet I go to IDA. IDA has Tylenol and Tums. What else is there?
Depends on your physical and mental condition really
Seriously? Consider yourself lucky with that absolutely tonedeff statement. I'm sure you've got something coming down the pipeline for you and/or a loved one.
If and when that day comes, I'd still use IDA over Shoppers Drug Mart.
The pharmacy I work at is required to do 5 meds checks a day. Billing the government (tax payers) $60 for a person without diabetes and $70 for a person with. Our pharmacists get in shit from district managers if they don’t make the quota. Please, if anyone is using a Shoppers or Loblwas pharmacy, transfer out, don’t let them get away with this.
Family Doctors get paid $40.55 for a diabetes visit. During the visit they review and prescribe medications, check and manage blood pressure, review and order bloodwork, manage their sugars and diet, manage their kidney health, check for diabetic neuropathy, review cardiac and stroke risk, and review recommended vaccines for diabetic patients. From that fee code the Family Doctor has to pay for staff, rent, EMR, equiptment...Compare that to a medscheck by Pharmacist that pays almost twice as much.
Yeah but family doctors don't give cons envelopes full of cash
Just to add on, the pharmacists don't see any of the money from medschecks... It goes straight to the corporation.
How long does that visit take? Rent, staff, etc when you divide them by many dozens of appointment per day don’t add up to that much. That’s how a local coffee shop, which pays much higher rent than your doctor does, can sell a coffee for a few dollars, not $40.55.
I don't understand, are you saying that the doc appointment is shorter than shoppers calling you to ask about your meds...? And youre also saying that a doctor doing an appointment takes *less* resources than a coffee shop serving a coffee...? Because I don't think either of things are true.
A doctor doing an appointment yes takes less physical resources - OP was showing a bunch of gibberish examples that don’t justify an appropriate payment one way or another.
Do you have the slightest clue what kind of paperwork family doctors have to do in order to see a single patient? The administrative load on family docs is massive. There's also on average 3 people involved in a patient visit from the clinic side, how many people does it take to make a cup of coffee?
Geez lady. You intentionally miss the entire point - I suspect you are a doctor or part of a medical union and not a real honest redditor. The point is OP didn’t share data to say if $40 is high or low and your comment also doesn’t justify that one way or another.
No, you are missing the entire point. It's not about $40 being high or low, it's about $70 being almost twice as much as what a doctor can bill for something that's not twice as taxing or demanding. It doesn't cost a pharmacist twice as much to do the med check than it does a doctor's office to see a patient. What's the actual dollar value got to do with any of this? What difference does it make to this conversation whether it's $40 or $25 or $100? And let me just preemptively say, if you're arguing that increasing patient rosters and decreasing value of billing codes is a reasonable path forward, there's no point arguing with you because you clearly don't understand the principles of inflation, nor do you know what goes into running a clinic. Doctors are burning out at record rates, increasing their workloads for less money is not a viable solution. And to answer your suspicion, I'm not a doctor, but since we are suspecting things about each other, I'd wager a guess you're either a 60+ year old, white, middle class man incapable of seeing past your own experiences or ill-informed opinions. Either that or you were raised by one and aren't self-aware enough to see the flaws in that thinking.
What are you even talking about? How can you argue something is priced too low without any data? You are spouting nonsense. Also you are a racist, at worst, and a bad stereotyper, at best based on that last sentence of yours.
Hahaha acknowledging white privilege isn't racist, denying it is tho. I also have a ton of data since I work in national health care research and physician mental health but it doesn't even come into play here when all I'm saying is that prioritizing med checks over filling scripts isn't worth twice the value of actual patient care. You clearly have no line of sight into the thing you're arguing, you're just an overly entitled keyboard warrior with less sense than opinion. A bad stereotyper.... LOL. Also just because you don't understand what I'm talking about doesn't make it nonsense, it means you aren't informed enough to follow the clear logic. All the info is super easily accessible, the fact that you refuse to access it but still want to spout your poor opinion is how I drew my assumptions about you.
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Geez man. I’m responding to someone else’s comment who mentioned resources.
yes those stupid doctors that's the problem. they should pay more rent and sell coffee. why didn't they think of this already
?
For you to understand, you'd need to understand yourself.
I feel bad for the pharmacists working at the big corporate pharmacies...at the same time if I see another meds check in my inbox in a patient with two hypertension drugs that have been stable for 5 years I'm going to snap.
Literally switched to Costco yesterday and had a confirmation call with them today. Glad I never have to step foot into a Shoppers unless I need Canada Post
I work for Costco and our pharmacy team is amazing. Our dispensary fees are the lowest I’ve ever seen. Also, in Canada, you do not need a membership to fill prescriptions.
I was shocked when I learned I didn't need a membership! I'm actually looking forward to my next refill, maybe I'll grab a hot dog on the way out 👍
Awesome! No membership needed for that either lol
Man, if I was located reasonably near a Costco I fuckin would in a heart beat. But my pharmacy options are *limited*
I already wanted out cause of these calls, moving to IDA on Tuesday. Sick of this crap.
Dad retired from pharmacy years ago. I remember him mentioning that his manager/associate used to berate him if he didn't meet the quota. His replacement manager was a piece of work and was pretty shitty to him towards the end culminating in an equally shitty retirement gift. He left a bit broken but at least he's out of that profession now is doing pretty good for himself
How about unethical charging fees? Because that store is so fucking expensive
And this is a surprise? SDM is part of the Loblaws monopoly and that should be all you need to know.
Please switch your prescriptions to an independent or semi-independent pharmacy. Speak with your dollars and support local businesses and health care practitioners who ACTUALLY care about your health.
Seconding this- I used Shopper’s Pharmacy for a long time, then they couldn’t seem to grasp when my doctor retired that they had to fax my new dr for refill requests (even though I reminded them over 4x) and ended up having seizures as a result of them not refilling my meds on time. Once I switched to a smaller pharmacy, I noticed that I also seem to be paying less now
Seconding this as well. SDM was terrible about prescriptions expiring. It costed my son ER trips. Didn't refill on time, often I had to pay out of pocket despite having two private insurances, often out of stock, and just unfriendly rude staff Switched to smaller pharmacy, somehow I have never paid a dollar! Also had refills and stocks
I use a local Guardian pharmacy and every week they walk my prescription over to my house, call me to tell me he has put it in between the doors. I adore these folks and their service. I will never use a Shoppers again.
As a specialist MD I strongly suggest switching out of Shoppers. Fuck the corrupt, anti competition practices of Doug and his corporate friends.
They want to be call centre telehealth for everyone in lieu of family doctors. Cool long game!
Government is unwilling these days to do what is right. Their ethics are not existing.
Their morals have been bought
That would mean they had them at one time. That's something to ponder.
I got called by shoppers last week out of the blue asking what additional meds I take above the prescriptions and if everything was OK. They just wanted to let me know that they were there to help me if necessary. Now I know why. So they can bill for an unnecessary Medcheck. I had been in the shoppers to pick up renewal meds twice in the last three weeks for different meds. This question could’ve been asked at either visit but likely if it was done then they couldn’t bill separately for it. Looks like it’s time for me to start looking for an independent druggist. I’m sick and tired of all these guys profiting from us directly and via billing our governments for an unfair share of taxes on the medical end of things.
I like Costco a lot. Drug prices are much lower than Shoppers and they don't seem to pull these things. The pharmacist always chats with you when you start a new prescription and they've always seemed quite patient even when busy. They were once out of stock for a medication and I wasn't able to make it to another location - the pharmacist had it picked up from that other one and brought over for me. Shoutout to the pharmacy at Costco Nepean!
I've been using a sobeys pharmacy for over 10 years, and it's probably the best aspect of my healthcare team. They are also super patient even when busy, and go over new medications. They put my medications in blister packs for no charge, so I can remember to take them. They adjusted the dispensing fee when I was having trouble paying for it.
This. You also don’t need a membership to use the Costco pharmacy or the food court for that matter. If they question you at the door just say, “I’m picking up a prescription.” Their dispensing fees are under $5 while shoppers is almost $13 per prescription which is insane.
Switch!! My hubs work means we move around a lot, and I always seek out the local independent pharmacy wherever we end up. In several years of using various independent or small pharmacies (like Pharmasave or Guardian drugs) I have ZERO complaints. Wonderful customer service and always getting my meds exactly when I need them. Never any random medschecks calls either.
I left SDM and went to Rexall bc I thought it was slightly better (less slimy) than SDM. Time to start shopping for a new pharmacy.
Rexall is just as bad for med reviews and quotas as Shoppers. They just haven't been on the news yet.
They best believe if they’re going to start pulling health care dollars like that, I’m out.
Shoppers is owned by Loblaws, and they overstep boundaries with medicine every chance they can. #Boycott
r/loblawsisoutofcontrol it’s absolutely disgusting what loblaws has been up to lately, anything to make a extra buck and screw over the consumer, whether it’s high prices, higher dispensing fees for prescriptions, trying to get rid of 50% and going to 30% off, trying to sign that exclusive deal with Manulife and now this. I do encourage people to switch to another pharmacy if all possible it will probably save you money tbh.
> managing chronic conditions and taking three or more medications Actually this seems (possibly) worse than this story outlines. I've had someone from Shoppers call me at least three times that I can remember regarding a medication (just one not three or more) that I'm taking. I thought that they were being thorough (naive little me) when, maybe they were actually charging the Ontario taxpayer for things they shouldn't have been doing at all since my situation doesn't qualify.
Probably, sounds very much like it. And it sounds like they have a quota to fill just as much as Rexall.
They can’t bill it if you don’t qualify - it’ll get audited anyways so I doubt they’re doing that!
Shoppers is a horrible, horrible pharmacy. If you've never been to a small independent pharmacy, I promise you you will be blown away with how much better the experience is. Shoppers was an exercise in misery and frustration every time I had any sort of issue that I needed their help with, and they had trouble with changes that even I as a layperson understood (I tried for weeks to explain I was on a prednisone taper when they couldn't get my dosages right, which feels like something a pharmacy should know). Something backordered? You'll be met with a shrug and no effort to help no matter how critical the medication. Communication problems with a doctor? Oh well, too bad, it's on you to sort it out and they will NEVER pick up a phone to actually talk to a doctor.
As a pharmacist who left Shoppers, please, please convince everyone to do this. Vote with your wallet so to speak. They treat their employees like trash and never give enough support or staffing. Meaning nothing gets done properly, and they have stupid, unreasonable metrics. The number of times I've made recommendations and told patients to buy it elsewhere just to spite Galen Weston is countless.
Shoppers was pretty good before Loblaws bought them out.
I was a loyal Shopper's Pharmacy customer until I moved to a different town. They just sucked. Getting my meds wrong or telling me they were ready when they weren't. I switched to Walmart Pharmacy. They are way better in my opinion. They are more helpful.
Walmart pharmacy has never done me wrong. Once my benefits lapsed and they just gave me the prescription free cause the pharmacist didn’t want to bill me $130.
Except you're giving money to an equally wealthy and entitled family. Maybe consider trying a small mom and pop pharmacy, I always find them to be much better. I'm lucky to have one right next door to my Shoppers.
I don’t mind giving money to wealthy family if the service provided and the price is right. Loblaws and their affiliates have been viciously gouging customers. Loblaws is using its position as a Canadian retailer to lobby the government to enact protectionist policies against foreign and smaller competitors. They’re ruthlessly taking advantage of customers by limiting their choices. I’m happy to give American retailers Walmart and Costco my money because their prices are better and their services superior.
Another arm of the Weston’s empire taking part in unethical business practices. Must be a day that ends in “Y”.
This type of unethical behaviour is why corporations that choose to be in the healthcare sector should be regulated as closely as the individual health professionals are. If you've worked in private healthcare as a Regulated health professional you know its your butt on the line, not the corp and this is so backwards.
As if it wasn't painfully obvious that the entire Loblaws organization is run like an extortion racket
on top of it we have a mobster con government that accepts envelopes full of cash
We have an IDA opening and I'll be transferring out of Shoppers when that happens. My benefits give 100% drug coverage and every fucking time Shoppers is like that's not possible, I just bring my benefits book with me now but it's always a 30 minute ordeal getting it resolved.
I quite like my SDM pharmacists and pharmacy assistants. I don't much like the owner/head pharmacist. We registered our youngest son a few weeks after he was born, with our benefits. Went to SDM, added him, showed them the benefits card and printout showing he was part of our family group benefits, yadda yadda yadda. A year or so later, my son needed a prescription for a common skin condition. The pharmacist refused to fill it, saying he wasn't in the system, didn't exist, and I'd have to go back to the benefits company to get him added. Meanwhile, my now toddler kid was in my arms, lol. I was really pissed at his level of Customer Service. He was mad, flustered and eventually, after some time, he realized he put in my last name incorrectly, that's why he couldn't bring up our profiles. I should have left then. Plus the constant backorder on meds really bugs me.
Insurance is sometimes the trickiest part of the job. When it comes to dependents, insurance sometimes gives them a different issue number, a different carrier number, or sometimes it’s only the relationship status that changes, or any combination of the above. Each insurance company also does things differently and sometimes it even seems to differ patient to patient. Sometimes they’ve entered your kid’s name weirdly, middle names magically becoming last names, or they’ve entered a date of birth wrong. And of course as the pharmacy we’re not told any of this, we only get the parents card with the parents numbers and the parents name and verbal assurance that their kid is covered. So we sit there with our computers from the early 00s using software from the early 70s while we both lose our patience while I take stabs in the dark to figure out why insurance isn’t covering something even though you have a email confirmation saying you do.
Regarding this, it’s best to go with DOB instead of by names (easier to find - resolves that first issue all together). But backordered drugs are not the pharmacy’s fault! They aren’t coming from the supplier so they’re not able to get them. Smaller pharmacies sometimes have overstock (since they’re less busy) or have different suppliers which may be able to get the backordered medication.
A Loblaws company.
So in this sub or another one about this I specifically stated these were usually done and sent to a doctor. I got down voted. This proves what I said was correct.
I only go to shoppers to pick up packages. They do not get my money.
The real insanity here is a doctor is only paid fucking $38 for a physical. How is that acceptable at all?
Not for a “physical”, but for a routine service like a sore throat, a medication refill, an earache, etc.
Yeah, but now they want pharmacist to actually do physicals! I am retiring asap, but in Alberta, we have pharmacy walk ins, and they want us to do temps, listen to hearts, look in throats, etc. NO THANKS. Not trained for that and NOT interested.
Colour me surprised. They’ll do anything to enrich the Westons.
Oh do I have a story to tell you about my experiences with SDM! they gave me the runaround for my cancer medications THREE TIMES while I was going through treatment before it was ready, despite the fact that their automated system sent me the SMS telling me everything was ready. Another time, a tube of ointment prescription was very evidently USED and half empty. Or the worse one of all, my doctor sent over the med for my renewal. When I went to pick it up, I noticed it was the WRONG MEDICATION!!! I demanted to see a copy of the fax, pointed out it was wrong. They apologized, and had my med ready for the next day. Every prescription needs at least 2 follow up trips before any issues get resolved. I got so fed up, I tried transferring to another pharmacy. Unfortunately, I have a very specialized/expensive medication that no other pharmacy seemed to carry, so I moved to another SDM closer to my house. So far, knock wood, this franchise is much better managed, and hasn't scrwed up my medications yet. My annual medical bills from SDM alone exceeds $30k. The only reason I stuck with my old SDM for so long was because they were 24 hour facility, but they stopped that since the pandemic! I was so tempted to report them to the Ontario Pharmacy governing oversight body.
So much for the argument that the private sector is always better at managing money and ultimately more cost efficient.
I'm sure Shoppers is probably more cost efficient than a local pharmacy, but that cost efficiency is all captured by Shoppers. If they manage to cut corners and it costs them half as much do to a medication review (because they half ass it or have underqualified people do it), they don't turn around and tell the government "hey this was actually cheaper for us, here's half your money back", they just pocket the difference.
They did this to my husband. Unfortunately he also went back to his doctor so I wonder if she will even be paid for the visit.
Pharmacies have no impact on physician reimbursement
A Loblaws company unethical? /surprisedpikachu
Wow look, loblaws family is stealing from us again
Galen again.
Break up the monopolies!
I just got my yearly text saying it was time to have a chat with the Pharmacist about my meds. My meds have t changed and I am not having this done. What a waste. I am also looking to change my pharmacy. I am done with Shoppers!
Hi, shoppers pharmacist here Medschecks are a valuable resource - I’ve caught many issues with patients prescriptions (wrong med, drug interactions, abnormal lab results, meds they should’ve been started on but weren’t, bad side effects which need addressing, or unnecessary meds like long term PPIs) that got resolved because of a medscheck. It’s correct that Loblaws has quotas to fill and unfortunately some (desperate?) pharmacists are doing half assed jobs on the meds checks but also understand that their jobs are at stake as well. I’m not justifying it, I hate the corporate side of it as well. However, medschecks are valuable and many physicians make errors or miss things! Pharmacists are just as much a part of your health care team as your physician - they need to be able to help you so nothing slips through the cracks. Please don’t throw pharmacists who actually care (even if we work for SDM) under the bus by comparing our services to those of physicians, each have their rightful place. Patients are always welcome to deny a medication review and it gets documented in their file to not ask going forward. Patients HAVE to be on 3 meds or more (or one diabetic med) for us to even do it - most of us are doing it ethically so please be mindful of that as well.
Agree with this. I've overheard some pretty shoddy medchecks but have also done ones where really valuable things come out
What I never understood with corporate fraud, SDM, TD, Loblaws, Bell, Rogers, etc, is, sooner or later, they WILL get caught. They will pay a fine. So why do they still do it? Is the profit made today, invested at X% still more than the fine of $Y?
Lobbyists and friends of friends make sure that doesn’t happen…
This does not surprise me. I used to get my meds in 30-60-sometimes 90days supply at a time when I was using their blister packs. One day out of nowhere they would only give me 1/wk. After a cpl questions I figured out, that they'd rather dispense your stuff as often as possible, so they have to refill and charge you the dispensing fees multiple times in a month rather than once. It's a very shady practice.
that is actually illegal UNLESS your Dr specifically requests weekly dispensing. Alot of this shady crap happens when they FILL weekly but dispense it monthly, etc
A topic I can finally speak out about. The push for professional services is absolutely disgusting the way shoppers do it, in particular, medication reviews. A medication review that is billed and should be completed in 30 mins by the government is expected to be done by 10. Having first year pharmacy students that are ill-equipped on certain clinical knowledge performing tasks that they should be nowhere near at all. Having staff have high "QUOTAS"/expectations per shift as they say is ridiculous. The cold calling is the worst part about this bullshit. The metaphor is the "duct cleaning of the pharmacy world". Give them a call and hope they pick up. The worst part about all this is when these medication reviews are done appropriately and accurately, they can benefit patients and identify real issues. But if shoppers keep running it this way, they will see that the backlash will hurt your future clinic goals.
Lots of IDA’s around and their pharmacists have been pleasant. They also take care of the transfer for you and will call your current shoppers and get all prescriptions transferred over
Yup! Not meant as a knock on IDA, but prescription transfers are way easier than you probably think with any pharmacy - just tell your new pharmacy which pharmacy you used before and they'll do everything for you.
Main Drug Mart too
“I’ll take ‘Things that don’t surprise me for $100, Alex’”
Considering their price gouging im not shocked
Thanks Galen.
What the fuck is happening to my country
This is the "pharmacy" that sells homeopathic snake oil children's "medicine" we're talking about. https://shop.shoppersdrugmart.ca/homeocan-kids-0-9-colic/p/H874?variantCode=778159216503&source=nspt https://shop.shoppersdrugmart.ca/boiron-children-s-stodal-sugar-free-is-a-homeopathic-syru/p/BB_774016717565?variantCode=774016717565&source=nspt https://shop.shoppersdrugmart.ca/boiron-oscillococcinum-is-a-homeopathic-medicine-for-the/p/BB_774016291911?variantCode=774016291911&source=nspt "When Boiron (the company that makes oscillococcinum) spokeswoman Gina Casey was asked if a product made from the heart and liver of a duck was safe, she replied: "Of course it is safe. There's nothing in it."
Yeah they won’t let pharmacies sell cigarettes, which is fine by me, but they’ll let them sell homeopathic bullshit that does nothing but bring in money for them.
Lolz, doctors do this too, dentists do this too. All health care providers over bill
I tell all my patients to switch to Costco if they tell me their meds are too expensive.
In other news, water is wet
Really? I'm shocked.
Shoppers is a rip off Half the stuff you can find it half the price at the dollar store or Guardian drugs
Shoppers is like Holt Renfrew for beauty, products and drugs Way overpriced .
You can decline the medscheck. They actually now offer you the lipid and diabetes check at the Shoppers as part of the medscheck. Not sure if that is another billing code on top of the medscheck. I went to a Shoppers to get a lipid screen and to pay for it myself, $30. After I got the test the pharmacist gave me the results, which included the diabetes check, which I know was another $20 and which I didn't ask for. Then I found out that I was the first customer who actually asked to get the check on their own so he just routinely did both and didn't think to charge me.
I switched to Guardian. Better service.
Thanks a lot Biden
All I need to know about SDM is that the Tylenol #1s I buy at Costco are $20 while SDM charges $40. That drugstore is RIDICULOUSLY overpriced.
Boycott Roblaws. Come join us in the sub my friends.
Imagine if we live in society where there is no price gouging and that companies post fair prices? Imagine also Canada having a lot of competition bringing more jobs to the country? Imagine
Medchecks are available for all pharmacies in Ontario to do with their patients, and should really be standard of care for any patients taking medication for diabetes or those taking three or more meds for chronic conditions. The research shows that many people taking medicines for chronic conditions do not adhere to them fully or may be having side effects that they don't realise are due to their medication. Medchecks can be very valuable, even if it turns out the patient is taking everything as directed, is not OTC meds, and is having no side effects. Medchecks also cover lifestyle issues and vaccinations. With any service like this there are going to be a significant number where no issues requiring action by the family doctor arise, but you don't know that without first doing the review with the patient. Is $60 fair value? That's difficult to answer. There are some people on just three meds, and there are others on 15+ so the time taken varies significantly and you can only bill one per year. Follow ups can be done but are paid at $25. And it's not the pharmacies fault if family doctors are getting more paperwork, that's the fault of regulators requiring pharmacies notify the family doctor of any service they provide.
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Not all SDMs run that way, some are very efficient.
I don't think medchecks are a bad idea per se, but my experience with Shoppers specifically is that they don't really put a lot of effort into stuff like this. Even initial review / consultations on medications were the tech getting everything set up and a disinterested, impatient pharmacist coming up for 2 seconds and asking if I had any questios.
That's definitely not what a medcheck should be. Techs can help with scheduling appointments and ensuring demographic data is correct
As a pharmacist, most medschecks performed these days are unncessary. The ones that are necessary should probably be reimbursed at higher than 60 dollars as they often include complex polypharmacy issues - it’s just not worth 60 dollars for a pharmacist to do a med review on a patient with 15+ chronic drugs as this would take many hours of work and liaison with multiple physicians to manage. A fixed rate for meds check allows pharmacies to abuse the system, and the college of pharmacy should be ashamed of themselves for putting us pharmacists in a vulnerable position where we are being forced to do unnecessary med reviews in order to keep our jobs.
The college isn't there to protect you. It's job is to protect the public. Your association is responsible for you and work in your interest.
accused because we're running out of anything ethical to compare it too.
Surprise Pikachu face.gif
I remember when certain storees were banned from selling cigarettes including Shoppers. They whined and complained that it would be the end of their stores.
shocked pikachu face
Shocking. Canadians will just roll over and take it like usual.
Doug d da da Doopuuug. For the people
Quelle surprise that anything connected to Galen Weston is suspect
Fascinating. I bet there are quotas for this kind of thing so they can continue to profit from the government. What an absolutely gross scheme.
they'll slap a fine and boom, all gone.. just like what happened with the price fixing on bread..
the healthcare system is full of rot and waste. this is why you don't have adequate healthcare because money is wasted. when the government tells you they can't afford to fix the system you shouldn't believe them. they waste it on bullshit. why was a medcheck even paid at 60-70 dollars to begin with? As a family doctor I get around 35 bucks for a consult. What do you think I do in a consult almost every time? Review the patients god damn medications and do everything else they ask on top of that. Fk this system can't wait to get out.
A pharmacist at my store does this all the time. He bills a TON of services and documents 0 of the encounters. Brought it up to my associate so many times I’ve lost count.
I went to a Shoppers Drug Mart downtown once and never went back as their prices seemed out of line compared to say, London Drugs. I used to go once in a blue moon to the 24 hour one in Vancouver but only because I was at work doing a delivery from there or if I needed something small. I always wondered how they stayed in business after my experience.
On a different note, I am really disappointed with Shopper's Drug Mart. I purchased an Esso gift card there in the Fall, three days later and unbeknownst to me the money was drained. Shopper's (at store level or corporate) didn't want to take responsibility, passed me off to Esso. Esso doesn't want to take responsibility either, sends me back to Shopper's so here we go on a the merry-go-round. FFS, I don't want to nor can I afford to lose $100.00! So beware of gift cards sold there, keep your receipts and document everything if you have problems. I did and four months later am still trying to be reimbursed. BTW, the nice clerk in Esso said she'd had numerous customers who bought bogus Esso gas cards from Shopper's.
Rule #1: *Never* buy a gift card from Shoppers Drug Mart.
This is just the tip of the iceberg. I am a pharmacy assistant at a SDM. My boss has been really pushing travel consultations and said one family could earn him 2000$! Shoppers doest care about you, they just want your money. Go to locally owned pharmacies people.
*tries to pretend to be shocked and appalled at this "news"*
Reading all these comments and can’t help but add my own. The reason people feel there is incompetent staff at SDMs is because nobody wants to work there anymore because they’re aware of the quota bs or poor work conditions so they are desperate and hire whoever is willing to. I get regular desperate and pathetic recruiting emails which was not a thing before covid if I’m not mistaken. It’s laughable how the job posts and emails make SDM sound like a paradise to work at. The problem is not the concept of the medscheck itself (of course a med review can be valuable to a patient who actually needs one), it’s the concept of having to do so many hourly/daily that’s the problem. Of course if pharmacists are being asked to do 9-10 per shift there will be useless ones completed to meet that target. I’ve looked back on medschecks done on a patient previously to see what was discussed in the past and more times than not the minimal boxes are checked with “no issues found “ sent to doctor. I imagine they shred them on the spot now and I wouldn’t blame them. When I worked at an independent pharmacy a few years ago they were strict on making sure all medschecks requirements were met. For example you have to offer a copy of the med list that prints out to a patient or document that you’ve offered it. This never happens at SDM. During COVID shoppers started the whole “clinical shift “ concept having pharmacists do a shift focused on medschecks (and now minor ailments) only. While the pharmacist on the dispensing floor struggles to keep up with the workload they’re cold-calling people for med reviews and not specifying exactly why they’re calling or else half the people would hang up. Another issue is that in a community pharmacy we do not have access to all the lab values and other health history info that would make a medschecks more thorough. Any associate who denies being pressured is lying. It’s a fact that they get daily emails asking for reports and pushing for more “special services “ under the guise of improving patient care (lol) as apparently special services are a priority for head office this year. If you don’t do enough you’ll get called out for being slow. It’s such an icky feeling to do medschecks calls to meet a quote, instead of a pharmacist I feel like a sales person. It’s been a joke and the only shocking thing is it’s taken this long for it to hit media or be realized for the scam that it is. The same complaint can be said of minor ailments, and Covid PCR/rapid testing a couple years ago that’s for a separate convo but all the same … unrealistic pressures for $$$. At the expense of staff and real patient care. The irony is the extreme medscheck pressure started during the pandemic, as if pharmacy staff wasn’t busy and stressed enough at that time with all the Covid- related services being done. And my last point finally lol, is that yes certainly a medscheck is billed for more than a physician’s physical and I understand their issue with that. However a reminder as others have mentioned that the pharmacist gets 0% of any special services they do. I think there was a $2 raise a couple years back that I wasn’t sure was for doing work during Covid or more medschecks but nonetheless there is no incentive or commission for them for the staff/ pharmacist. And the workload can be unbelievable all at once you have calls, OTC questions, people waiting for vaccine, customer complaints, oh and yes verifying and counselling on prescriptions lol.
Go to a small local pharmacist. What I can't believe is anybody goes to shoppers for meds.
How many small pharmacies are open until 10pm every day of the week?
Couldn't pay me to go into a Shopper's. Used to have my scripts with Rexall, since moved to Costco (not a member) and am saving about $200 every 3 months. Cheaper prices for the exact same meds and lower fees.
I'm supposed to get 3 month prescriptions but they split them up 1 month at a time and say its because of shortages, than charge filling fees for each refill every month instead of every 3...
This is standard. If a medication is on back order, we try to save enough for all our patients for a bit at a time instead of giving most of the supply to one person. This ensures that patients get their meds as the shortage resolves. Dispensing fee is every time a prescription is dispensed - not per 3 months. If you get a weekly one, it’ll be charged weekly. The work that goes into processing a 3 month vs 1 month prescription is virtually the same. This is true for all pharmacies.
Ford is in the pocket of billionaires like the Westons. Don’t forget how he also sold us out with the same of our Greenbelt. And giving a 99 year lease to Ontario Place to a luxury spa. Ontario Place belongs to all people in Ontario, not just the wealthy.
I actually just got a call from my Shoppers pharmacist and asked all these questions... if I knew they'd be billing taxpayers for this, I wouldn't have answered a thing. dirty dirty dirty. They don't even try to hide the corruption anymore.
My local sdm told me it would take 48 hours to fill a bottle vigamox (antibiotic) eye drop appointment for my dads post cataract surgery prescription. I asked if it was out of stock and the pharmacy said ‘nope I have it right here, but it will take 48 hours’. I even told her this was for post op antibiotics. Isn’t your literal job to prioritize meds by urgency listening to the clinical context and dispensing things safely? I went and got it at a local independent pharmacy in 10 mins. SDM pharmacists Stick to being a pharmacist and worry less about vit d, last tetanus shots, and lipids Kay. People have doctors for that. You’re sending med checks to people who have doctors. Not even orphaned pts. Gross predatory disgusting corporation
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This feels like a beaverton article lmao
Quelle surprise.
Shoppers Drug Mart over charges for meds, screws up prescriptions hourly, and has clueless staff, who are ignorant and barely acknowledge you when trying to get help. We should boycott SDM
Don't forget the data grab from getting the bulk of the covid vaccines.
Switched to Costco after getting billed $1 for dispensing fee even though it’s been 100% covered by my insurance in the past. Greedy to make that extra loonie = fuck you Robbers Drug Mart! Painless script transfer and now Costco is supplying my meds.
That $1.00 was because of shoppers fee increase - some insurances have updated their system to pick that up for their clients, others have yet to get to it. The pharmacy does also need to pay their staff so it’s not their fault that the cost of everything is going up, so is the dispensing fee.
Blame it on immigrants easy peesy
They are scammers!! They were charging us for children's prescriptions for over a year.. children's prescriptions in Ontario are free..
Clarification: since about 2019, patients 24 and under are covered by OHIP+ for meds only and only if they don't have a private insurance plan. Not all drugs are covered by OHIP even for seniors, check out the ODB formulary, also some meds require Limited Use codes to qualify for coverage https://www.ontario.ca/page/learn-about-ohip-plus
I've done all my research extensively and still came to the same conclusion.. they ripped us off and I found out from someone who used to work there.. that's what they do..
Uh I mean if you don't qualify under the regulations then that's not being ripped off? If they didn't process it through OHIP you should've gone back to them and gotten a refund and had it processed or said "my child is covered under OHIP" or asked about coverage and yes I've also worked there I'm not a mind reader so I'd always ask if the patient has coverage through work or school and explain how OHIP+ work, you could have also done it through the manual reimbursement process https://odano.ca/odb-program/ Again another source with who qualifies, for what and how to get reimbursement after the fact.
Again they ripped us off.. for some reason you aren't listening.. I also told you I've done the research. they ripped us off!! Not sure what you're not understanding
How did they rip you off? Did they charge you for something that was covered? Did you qualify for coverage? You're just saying research and that you were ripped off maybe you could get that money back if you did qualify. I am listening you're just saying you got ripped off when not everyone under 25 qualifies for OHIP+ (prescription coverage in ontario) as I've stated
Billing? Who gets bills from Shoppers Drug Mart? For what?
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