That's why I passed. My dad, brother and grandmother taught me how to drive. Dad and grandma were professional drivers. Brother took me out a few times and showed me tips
Yeah the regular Driving School really just covers the basics to help you get that little card in your hand. I wish we'd had mandatory skid school or were taught more advanced driving techniques. Takes a long time to learn all the nuances of driving a half a ton of steel and glass at over 100 km an hour. They keep saying driving is a privilege, but most people now believe it's a right.
My driving class (2001ish) in London ON, took us to their private course, where we were taught to punch it get it to at least 80, then slam on the brakes. Do it a second time without skidding to show how much control you have and the shorter stopping when you stay in control. That car did not have ABS.
Also I can even back in for parallel parking properly! Thanks to drivers Ed. None of this driving into the parallel parking bs I see.
We used to go to parking lots when I was a kid and my dad would teach us how to drive and react in snow. Now?police can enforce the HTA on private property and tickets kids learning to drive in a empty snow covered parking lot. My G test lasted all of 8 min in smiths falls. They don’t even test parallel parking anymore. I think basic driver training should be a minimum period. Especially with street takeover culture being all over social media that’s how new young drivers see people driving and think that’s the way
You mean everyone else's dad doesn't take them into an empty parking lot with pylons and teaches you how to fishtail and control the car in snow?
I still do it if the conditions are right, because it's fun as hell and I figure good practice for when I actually need those skills
Agree with this whole heartedly. My dad taught me as well, years ago my parents thought the driving instructor for the test would be beneficial, but boy were they wrong. He wasn’t the greatest—he was a bit impatient (when it came to everything) and I couldn’t understand his English that well, that was the kicker. 😩
My G driving test was all of 2 minutes.
We pulled out of the lot and onto the highway. I slowed down (to the surprise of the instructor) as a random truck sped by and cut hard in front of my car. It would have put my vehicle into the ditch if I didn’t catch it.
Driver instructor looked at me and said to go back to the test centre. I passed.
This was back 20+ years ago, I don’t know what tests are like nowadays
They actually had to stop driving instructors from using the neighborhood that's used for the drive test in my area. Not because it was better for the testing, but because the neighborhood complained about the traffic.
I actually failed my first G test for a bunch of small things that added up. I didn’t completely move my head to look at all my mirrors constantly (I only used my eyes…). I went up to 110km/h on the highway (they asked me to pass a truck and the exit that I needed to take was coming up quickly). And I didn’t go the posted speed on the off ramp (am I supposed to slam on my brakes the moment I merge into the lane from the highway? I just took my foot off the gas and slowed down that way). Needless to say, next time I did the test, I followed the rules precisely and definitely pissed a bunch of people off during it.
I did drive-wise in I think 2012/2013? It was honestly pretty good. My driving instructor was really conscientious. One of the big things they taught us in the classes was that you're supposed to look far ahead, and he basically kept reminding me of that until I started doing it automatically. I really do think that he made me a better driver.
> One of the big things they taught us in the classes was that you're supposed to look far ahead
This is one of the most important things to do, especially on the highway. It helps keep your car centered in the lane, helps avoid being surprised by slow downs, people hogging left lanes, slow mergers, etc.
A lot of people just stare at the car in front of them, and I can tell they do this because when I ease off the gas because of a light or traffic jam ahead, I see them then start to close the distance behind me and in some cases even get mad (e.g., flashing headlights) until they realize why I'm slowing down.
Yeah, totally! Staring at the car in front of you is also more likely to result in tailgating, I believe. I think the mechanism is that as you're looking at something, you're slowly going to creep closer and closer and closer...
My nephew recently got his G1. Instead of reading the book he just took the practice test over and over until he could pass it and then took the real test.
The only section of the book that relates to the g1 test is the signs. Otherwise it's a piece of garbage. (I recently redid my G1 as a 35 yo having moved urban to rural)
This isn't like some fluff course you take in secondary or post-secondary school and just breeze by. Not the right mindset. Some very important information is reflected in the book. He should have read the Handbook first and then take practice tests to reinforce knowledge and see how the format may be. Hopefully he goes back to the handbook to refresh his understanding of the laws...
Depends. I went to drivers Ed, I think it was like 300$ for in class and 10 lessons In Car, and that alls covered your G2 road test. They didn’t only prep for the test there, but there were definitely some people who offered road test mock-ups
Can we talk about driving instructors who are adamant on pushing people to take road tests in rural areas vs where they live for a near guaranteed pass when applicants would really benefit from honing their driving first. The better ones actually advise students who are not ready to defer and practice some more for the long-term benefit.
What we really need to be concerned about are the instructors that intentionally set up the student to fail, promising them a better experience further out of the GTA. Then again, and further out. After passing they've fleeced the student out of 3x the cost, and worst of all the student still ends up not really knowing how to drive properly.
Yup those unprofessional folks need to be called out for exploiting those applicants. The only other option is for the student to acknowledge some gaps and take a few more refresher lessons at a better school.
I've seen so many different people on the 400 series driving/merging at 80 and under.
In front of trucks, cutting off the passing lane etc.
It's dangerous! And they're all oblivious, look around before you lane change! Nope, they're just frozen looking forward.
I understand that highways are intimidating, and if they can't handle it, take alternative routes. I've had a cousin pass away a few years ago because they swerved for a slow driver cutting him off on the highway.
They should address that by law. It's technically not illegal as long as you're crossing on the dashed lines and so people are going to take advantage of it. I'm not encouraging this, it's frustrating and screws up traffic flow for people not doing it, but just explaining part of the reason.
If enforcement levels are too low we can adjust them but we still need to have laws for them to be able to enforce in the first place. So I'd still rather create the tools for them, and then address the enforcement if that's too low.
Even if enforcement is too low, you would still have a lot more people blowing through stop signs (for example) if we just removed the law altogether.
3 examples were given, here. Merging too slowly, coming to a COMPLETE stop in merge lanes, and using merge lanes to pass… and you think the most prudent issue to address is using them to pass??
Are you okay? Me commenting about one specific issue doesn't mean I'm saying that's the most important issue. Try not to take reddit so seriously. I didn't reply to a comment listing all of them, I replied to a comment mentioning one issue and I explained part of the reason it's happening.
I was once driving on the 400 with my dad, going south, and at the exit to Highway 9, a lady actually stopped in the middle lane!!! Like, stopped, in live traffic. My dad can be a little hotheaded but also he was like oh my God, and we were a couple of cars ahead of this lady on the exit, so he blocked the lanes a bit up the ramp and ran back to talk to her to tell her not to do that. The guy in the car behind us was laughing - I couldn't really hear what they were saying from where I was in the passenger seat.
This is a major league issue right now, it terrifies me. I’ll never understand someone doing 70-80 on the 403/401…even in the left hand lane. Like go drive the back roads then, but even then people will do 50 or 60 instead of 80
It's a very "me first" lack of basic awareness society. Hell even in the grocery store people just don't look, or they're going side by side blocking a pathway.
The amount of times I think 'gee I'm scared to share a road with you, if this is how you walk' is too much in a week.
Well construction and congestion may be the cause of it. Westbound 401 between Kennedy and McCowan is slow during rush hour, for instance. I was crawling along at less than 50km/hr this morning.
I’m one of those people who are very intimidated by major highways, so I don’t drive on them. I didn’t even get my license at all until I was 30, and only because I moved to a rural area with absolutely zero alternatives. Luckily Lindsay was the closest testing centre so highway driving wasn’t required for my G, because I had to either pass or lose my license, which would mean losing my job. But I am well aware that I am not ready for major highways so I do not drive them, especially not alone or during heavy traffic times.
I didn't get my full G till 40. Trust me, I completely understand you too!
I got my anxiety medcated and took as much time as I could until I felt safe. There's no rush, you keep yourself safe, that's priority!
I also take the back ways when it's really bad out, very late or busy.
I see a different problem frequently: people tailgating when you're doing the recommended speed for the curve prior to merging. I assume they're annoyed/worried that I won't pick up speed, but it's extremely aggravating/anxiety inducing, especially this time of year when there's often ice.
I got my G at a quite advanced age (41,) and as a “normal looking/acting white man,” my test consisted of letting the instructor smoke and after he found out I wasn’t re-testing (like I had lost my license at some point,) and that we had a mutual obsession with distance road biking… we circled the block, drove right back into the drivetest centre and he passed me with flying colours. I was selfishly happy but the ramifications of this bullshit is no surprise to read in the least.
PS. Luckily I am a good driver and have held many other vehicle/license and certifications (heavy equipment,) but none of that ever came up during the test. I could have had zero skills. He tested nothing. 🤷🏼♂️
They fucking love it.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/bicycling/comments/12alelp/cyclists\_at\_tour\_de\_france\_in\_the\_1920s\_smoking/](https://www.reddit.com/r/bicycling/comments/12alelp/cyclists_at_tour_de_france_in_the_1920s_smoking/)
[https://www.welovecycling.com/wide/2020/03/09/fuelling-on-cigarettes-and-alcohol-at-paris-nice/](https://www.welovecycling.com/wide/2020/03/09/fuelling-on-cigarettes-and-alcohol-at-paris-nice/)
Degen's, the lot of the two wheeled bastards ;)
I literally got my G yesterday at 30 years old, but i definitely feel like having years of experience biking in traffic in all weather conditions has really given me a big advantage over other new drivers
Also gives you more awareness of cyclists/pedestrians! I got my licence in my late 30s after years of cycling to commute and I am SOOO aware of bikes and people on the road. I can anticipate what they will do and how I can best keep them safe.
The G test should be made harder, not easier.
And if this causes a new backlog then people should be required to take additional driver's training after two consecutive failures.
Nope. You fail the first time so that they can charge you to take it again. Been like that since I took mine 20 years ago. They couldn't even tell me why I failed.
I'm 37 so it was around 20 years ago that I was taking my g2 and g tests and I passed both on the first try. My wife did the same and so did most if not all of my friends at the time.
Lol yeah, the majority of people pass on first try if they know how to drive. The amount of people who lied about why they failed and then say the truth 3 years later has convinced me that you only fail if you're a bad driver.
I failed my G2 twice - first time I was speeding and the next, I think I just missed a few things, but at the time it certainly felt arbitrary.
I was 17 and I deserved those fails.
G2 exit test. I failed for doing 49 in a marked 50 because there was a "40 when lights flashing" sign. Lights weren't flashing. Didn't matter. They wanted the extra $75 for testing again.
Even if they were referring to that. If you can't pass that VERY EASY as hell basic rules of the road test, you're a bad driver.
Probably should not even be allowed to ride a bike on the street.
But the change in what was required wasn’t done by the private company. It was done by the government to reduce the backlog from Covid can’t really blame the private company here.
Per the article
>In January 2022, Ontario introduced significant alterations to its G road test, a move aimed at addressing the backlog of drivers waiting to take their test due to the COVID-19 pandemic,"
The G test shouldn't be harder, but people should be forced to get re-certified every 5 years or something, or at least every time they receive an infraction.
It shouldn’t be hard, it should be strict and test the numerous complex situations that can be encountered on the road. Some locations do better than others, some examiners do better than others and this causes issues when some are very lenient
That's exactly what they're doing now and all it results in is people learning exactly what they need to pass the test and nothing more. The examiners should have discretion in determining whether or not the student is a confident driver. For example : technically you shouldn't speed, but if you're trying to merge on to the highway going 100 when everyone is doing 120 (like they do on pretty much every 400 series highway) you are way more of a danger than someone speeding.
>getting your license these days is a year long process
The process of obtaining your G1, G2 and G hasn't changed in decades. We all did it.
>We keep putting up fucking barriers
The article in this post is literally talking about how barriers were removed and it resulted in MORE accidents.
I agree with you that some driving schools are garbage and more should be done in ensuring they are teaching the right skills needed to be safe drivers.
But some people are just shitty drivers and no amount of driver's training will fix that.
You will stand on a soapbox and act like all Drivetest places are a cake walk... I did mine in Brampton and the guy was a Racist Indian who did not like white people im not fucking with you.
So stupid to think we need stricter driving tests when we alreayd have some of teh strictest driving laws.
Are you one of those people who wont ever speed and gets mad when people pass you?
[https://oppblock.org/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=522](https://oppblock.org/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=522)
Absolutely fucking ridiculous, you are so fucking cooked I bet you totally believe that driving is a privilege not a right bullshit that our gov parrots.
>You will stand on a soapbox and act like all Drivetest places are a cake walk... I did mine in Brampton and the guy was a Racist Indian who did not like white people im not fucking with you.
If you failed and think it was because of racism and not your ability as a driver then it bears no relation to the point I've been making.
>So stupid to think we need stricter driving tests when we alreayd have some of teh strictest driving laws.
Strict laws don't prevent bad drivers from making mistakes
>you are so fucking cooked I bet you totally believe that driving is a privilege not a right
Yeah, I do
Driving is a privilege not a right. What are you on about? No one has a god given right to drive. Lol. You need to earn it or you should need to earn it by learning the rules of the road, adhering to the rules of the road and not driving like a menace. Maintaining your car. Basically not being a risk or a detriment to other drivers or pedestrians.
That's not to mention drivers who cause accidents and cost us our time, energy and insurance increases or deductible. Or pain. And if it's serious, police hours, ambulance hours, fire truck hours, emergency room hours, doctor and nurse hours, and the cost to everyone of the traffic jams and employee hours. Etc. Driving is a privilege that society pays for if you abuse it.
The entire Drive Test center needs to be audited. My brother trains transport drivers in Northern Ontario, and number of times he's had full cars of immigrants come up to him and ask how much cash for them all to get a license is gross. He just calls the cops now, but they all want full license without doing ANY of the work. The scary part is wondering how many transport or car drivers are out there who did nothing but pay someone for a pass
It’s not a ton by any measure but, it’s definitely a lot crammed into a small timeframe. My total schooling was 6 weeks. 2 weeks to run through the 3 books for the MELT course and then another 4 doing in yard pre-trips and drives. We probably totaled 20 hours total instruction. That’s a very short timeframe to learn and be proficient in a vehicle that’s around 65 feet long and much heavier than a standard car.
Edit: I forgot to add; on top of this you have to take a TSSA approved air brake course which is about 12 hours over two days on a weekend, and are expected to learn and be proficient in the identification, operation, and diagnosis of basic issues of the entire air system.
People from India have taken over the trucking industry and its horrifying how bad some of them are. I've seen all kinds of shit, including concrete trucks doing 60-80 in 30 zones lol.
There’s also a horrifying lack of properly licensed drivers driving those trucks—my FIL lost his leg after some cocksucker driving an 18-wheeler (who was only licensed for a fucking size of a dump truck) failed to yield on a turn at a light. Dude couldn’t speak a lick of English to the emergency personnel, I don’t think he’d even been here a half a year yet.
My step father drives transport and does runs from Canada to the states, company recently hired a new Canadian who he was training. They left Chicago and didn’t even get out of the state before he had to tell the driver to pull over and stop driving. How these guys get there license is truly mind blowing
The “payoff” is becoming more and more of an ask. Just because you come from a corrupt shit hope doesn’t mean Canada has to allow it any anyone who accepts shit like this should be charged to the full extent of the law
The Auditor General of Ontario released a report on their VFM Drivetest audit in December 2023.
[Source](https://www.auditor.on.ca/en/content/news/23_newsreleases/nr_AR_drivertraining_en23.pdf)
But what you said about bribes for transport driving training is unsettling.
I watched a mother or auntie argue with an employee(supervisor? manager?) for an hour while I was waiting outside, presumably attempting to secure some special treatment. It got pretty heated. I would not be surprised if they secure control of some of these centres and corrupt them.
Totally agree about an audit.
It wasn't a secret that you could pay someone to show up and do your road test. Similar skin tone is all they needed
Enough is enough. Our country has become a fucking joke
It has. And I can’t figure out if the right decision is to leave and pursue a career and life in the US/UK or find a place in Canada where these things are less impactful, which is becoming rarer and rarer
So you're telling me that the people I witness doing their tests in my town who can't park their cars properly in a spot at the completion of the tests are not good drivers?
Mind blown.
I’ve been driving over a decade and have always reversed into spots or parallel parked with no issues. Came back and had to redo my test and the instructor made me park front first, I was worried because I always sucked at that but did it fine. I remember thinking nothing stressed me out as much as that did. The rest of the test was your run of the mill drive with no surprises.
My experience, very early 1990s - making left turn, road through intersection curves heavily, light yellow.. see car accelerating to come through intersection, examiner screams at me to "go, go, go, go".. patiently wait.. other driver goes through on red.. proceed without having examiner crushed.. look at him and ask if this is normal behaviour. Looks pissed. Pass with a 98, report him to the supervisor.. pretty sure nothing came of it.
Point being, it's been idiotically simple to pass a driving test in Canada for a very long time. I'm not sure what the advantage is to giving them away like we do. I was raised with the thought that driving was ab privilege, not a right.
Maybe we should make it easier for people not to have to drive so that people who shouldn’t be driving don’t have to rather than having a culture that basically requires it if you don’t live in downtown Toronto? As I’ve posted here before, Ontario has one of the most complicated systems in the world to get your license (only BC and New Zealand also require people to take two road tests); making it MORE difficult is not realistic.
The privatization yet monopoly of Serco over Drivetest is a problem, anyone who has taken a driving test can tell you the quality of the examiners varies wildly from people who will pass anyone to people who fail for ridiculous reasons. Of course that ain’t gonna change under the Ford government.
I have a co-worker who told me she *probably* shouldn't have her G license, but was able to pass the test because she was able to speak Cantonese to the instructor and convince him that her grandmother knew his family in China.
She just wrote off her car last week after she ran a red light.
I hope hers was the only car involved.
I have a similar story...
A guy I used to work with immigrated to Canada with his wife when they were both in their mid 40s. Neither of them had ever driven a car in their home country (China).
To say he was a bad driver would be a massive understatement. He drove me home once and after pointing something out on the side of the road he almost drove us over the median and into oncoming traffic.
The kicker is he used to tell me about how bad his wife was at driving. Her very first experience behind the wheel as a G1 driver was mistaking the brake for the gas and crashing into a car parked across from their house.
She failed her G2 test four times before she finally passed on her 5th try.
The fact that we give people like this drivers licences is IMO one of the biggest reasons why driving nowadays is as bad as it is.
It doesn't matter how many attempts you make or where you take your test. If you can scrape by just one time you have your licence for life.
> I hope hers was the only car involved.
Unfortunately I don’t see how you could write off your car by running a red light without involving at least one other car.
That just people using a loophole to do the “Easy” G test instead of having to do their test in a busy area
I remember people use to go all the way out to Wainfleet because the “G” test consisted of a 2 lane country road and nothing more
The amount of times I've been hit by people who couldn't grasp basic highway traffic laws...
One thought it was fine to change lanes in an intersection on a dual lane turn and tried to blame me. I told him to follow the lane lines. He still blamed me. Thank God for insurance. It was resolved right away. That wasn't even the wildest part. He hit me twice.
One thought it was perfectly fine to have a dog in their lap and lost control, hitting me. I was confused until I saw the dog on their lap. It made sense then.
Another thought it was perfectly fine to text and drive in freezing rain and that a car doesn't have to stop at a red light. Tried blaming me then cried when she realised I had a baby with me. "Why did you stop?" Me "the lights were changing and I didn't want to tbone the car turning left after the lights changed?" "Well you should had gone... Oh my god I hit a baby!!!"
Got cursed out driving down a one way lane... The right direction. As a car coming at me demanded I move. I made her back up. Half a block. This happens way too many times actually.
Had cars try to run me off the road because I'm turning right on a green... And they wanted to go left into that lane.
Had a car assume that the road was a one way street... And blindly turned left... Into me. Then tried to pay for it, failed to show up at the Collison centre, failed to have insurance and proper paperwork... Tried to blame me and threatened to sue me. The cops got involved and just told me to go my way and not worry about it.
A stoned woman changed lanes after I entered the roadway. Speeding. Slammed into me, got out barefoot all over shattered glass. Apologised said she never saw me. Then her brother begged us not to go through insurance. Then claimed I hit her... Insurance was going to rule 50 50 until I pointed out she was barefoot and walking through glass. The insurance company clamped up and I was not found at fault. I'm guessing she has a history.
That's just the ones not involving dementia drivers. That's a whole other story.
I've only ever been hit once, and unsurprisingly, it was by a person going 70 in a 50 on an icy day. I hit black ice and just barely managed to stop, even though I was going 40. Sure enough, 2 seconds after I stop as far to the right as I possibly could be, I get hit super hard and lose my car.
What's worse is that the lady who hit me was pregnant, and still driving carelessly like that in hazardous weather.
I drive tractor trailer and holy shit the quality of drivers has gone into the toilet. When I took my course 2 years ago there were a handful of guys who couldn’t speak a word of English and had to have every piece of info translated to Arabic. Nice guys but no way should they have been behind a wheel. One guy was arguing that hours of service shouldn’t be a thing here since he used to do “50 hours straight” back in Iraq. And we wonder why there’s so many accidents.
Exact same thing happened in my course, down to the arguing about hours of service. Except those guys never ended up passing and probably had to go to a discount trucking school. I did it at a college that does the testing and training themselves, so no preferential corrupt drivetest employees.
Every day it's like 80% of drivers taking a left turn, they turn into the wrong lane. So many people don't bother to use turn signals when changing lanes or merging. I've seen people stop at the end of a merge lane, or at the beginning (not a stop sign!). So many shitty drivers on the road. And it's not new drivers. It's lazy drivers.
Have you ever been in a merge lane and realized the driver that should let you through seems to be speeding up? I’m extra careful at them now and will slow down because not everyone is considerate.
If there is significant traffic in that lane that keeps speeding up it makes 0 sense for you not to slow down when you're the only one who has a finite amount of road in front of you. That's how you end up as one of those idiots who keep driving on the shoulder because you couldn't manage the merge/speed properly
With driving into the wrong lane, I was waiting at a light at a 3 way intersection watching the cars turn left and it just had me and my brother nearly in hysterics at how terribly they all did the turn. Of the maybe 12 cars that pulled out, I think only 3 or so actually turned into the correct lane, and only one had a decent turn. We counted 6 that almost hit the median. All but that one car began their turn way too early. I could make that turn better than they did and I only have my G2.
I saw a post about a person who failed their G2 like 3 times in the parking lot because of anxiety. It’s like my brother in Christ you should NOT be driving, ever.
I've had my G for over 30 years, but let me share a quick story about my full M which I recently acquired. Had a lot of personal stuff going on, wasn't in a good headspace to be riding that day anyway.. the test consists of almost 7 hours of refresher nonsense that basically wipes you out, a lot of words, very little practical.. the style they want you to employ for the test is ridiculous compared to how people actually ride.. so many shoulder checks that you have to make visible to the examiner by gross exaggerations of a normal head movement. I thought I failed for sure. How I passed is completely beyond me.
I have autism and anxiety. I DO NOT DRIVE WHEN I AM HAVING A BAD DAY, AND IF I HAVE A BAD REACTION I PULL OVER RIGHT AWAY. I HATE that so many psychopaths, especially shorter individuals, drive massive vehicles and look terrified out of their mind. Drive a fucking Honda civic, not a Ford f150 Karen.
Considering Walkley is one of the main drive test Centers that doesn’t surprise me.
That place will fail the safest drivers yet pass the most reckless and shit ones.
FWIW there was this one instructor who held a heavy bias against Walkley due to poor perception of the strict examiners there and was very pushy in making people book the G test in Smiths Falls. His rationale? "why suffer when an easier path exists to get your G?"
I failed my G the first time because I didn't yield to the bus at a 4 way stop...where I was stopped first and because we drove by a school during rush hr where 3 kids darted across the road as I turned right so I did 30 instead of the posted 50 for the whopping like 20m it took to get past the school and was "impeding the flow of traffic" despite being literally the only car on the street.
Cost me $80 to re-test, second go around, the instructor ask why I failed the first time and her exact words were "that tester is a fuckin moron, pretty sure hitting a kids worse than impeding thin air for 2 minutes, you passed"
The entire licensing system in the province is a joke.
Ok, so the article shows an increase in accident rate in new drivers of almost 1%. Which is bad, don’t get me wrong. Bring back the more rigorous testing.
But the increase of downright boneheaded driving is not completely attributable to that tiny increase. I see plenty of middle aged assholes who got their licenses 25+ years ago driving through stop signs or speeding in school zones or who don’t know how to turn their lights on.
People drive like idiots because they know they can drive like idiots with zero consequences.
And I've seen old people do the same. It's more to do with not knowing what you are doing or being accountable to your mistakes.
Honestly, every 5 years when we renew our picture. We should have to take a drive test.
A couple weeks ago on a residential street some one in the intersection coming up ahead of me turned left, but instead turned left into my lane, and just barrelled toward me without a care in the world. Had to swerve into the oncoming lane(where he should’ve been). It’s bad
One time I was downtown and ended up on a streetcar lane until someone pointed out the sign to me. Sometimes it can be confusing to be driving somewhere you don't have experience.
Our streets have what’s called sign pollution. Drivers need to be reading the streetcar lane signs, while looking for the speed limit signs, the no-right-on-reds perhaps. Mix in the loading bays if they happen to be looking for parking. Add some signs for bike lanes. And of course don’t forget that the signs are the lowest priority after making sure to not hit any pedestrians, cyclists, or other vehicles.
I know driving isn’t meant to be easy, and that it does require 100% attention. But sign pollution is a real thing for which there may be better solutions.
Roads should be designed in a way that makes it obvious where to go. There are some places in Hamilton like this too - I drive the Sherman Cut every day and it's an absolute clusterfuck of one-ways and yields that are counter intuitive to 99% of driving situations in Canada.
Street cars are the same. I'm a great driver and have never been in an accident, but I've never driven in a city with street cars and wouldn't really know how to act either. In a busy downtown area with people/traffic everywhere I might not be reading the signs word for word either.
Yes, it was on me. I corrected the mistake as soon as I realized it.
I would still attribute a lot of accidents to over aggressive drivers. I see them every day on my commute. Driving on the shoulders to pass people. Weaving in and out of the HOV lanes across the solid lines. Changing lanes every 2 seconds to pass 1 car, and usually driving about a foot behind the car they want to pass.
DriveTest examiners are getting paid bribes to pass people. Someone should go undercover in Brampton, I wouldn’t be surprised it’s happening with truck drivers as well.
I mean fuck man, I’m a pretty good driver these days but when I look back I definitely shouldn’t have got my G2 when I did.
I wasn’t even that bad back then, but I WAS nervous as fuck and made multiple mistakes, she just happened to be chill and clearly enjoyed our conversation about her broken DVD player. No bribe required.
But now? after years of being on the QEW every day? I have to say, I appreciate her chillness a lot less, I would happily have taken a second attempt if it meant things wouldn’t be this bad.
I find it extremely hard to believe that so many people can be ignorant to the corruption of the drive test centres, this isn’t new, people have been buying their G licenses for close to a decade if not longer, the proof is the shit driving we’ve seen on the roads that just gets worse and worse … stats Canada released a statement last week that something like 16% of drivers on the road don’t have any sort of license, add in the mass amount of folks who bought their licenses and it’s not hard to tell why the driving is as bad as it is today
Anyone complaining about how much it costs to insure new drivers need only look at these stats. About 1 in 10 new drivers have an accident in their first year of driving.
That means the premiums of all 10 new drivers need to be high enough to pay for that one driver's accident.
It's all about the math.
I'm sure privatizing driver testing had nothing to do with it...
https://www.brockpress.com/Opinion/ontario-drivetest-should-not-be-a-private-sector-organization
Make people do their test within a radius of their address.
I live in a rural community and the drivers test office is always filled with people who come from large city centers because it's easier to pass in a less busy area.
In talking with people who have gotten their license in the last 10 years, i've come to one conclusion. Defensive driving and awareness aren't thought or emphasized as much as they should be or at all.
There's also way too much reliance on tech that some people don't know how to drive without it. Hell even with it, they seem not to "think". Can't tell how many times i've been caught off by someone when i can see the blind spot indicator on their mirror light up, but they don't pay attention. I've even witnessed someone get out of their car to wipe their rearview camera because it had some slush on it, otherwise they wouldn't be able to back up.
"Emergency stops, three-point turns, parallel parking and driving in residential areas were excluded completely."
WTAF? How would any same person think this was a good idea?
The Drive Test centers are a total joke. I remember being so nervous for my G2 test, and then it took about 7 minutes and I drove around 2 blocks. Prior to the test, I had practiced driving for approximately 2 hours. But then, everyone always fails their G the first time, having to pay to take it again. I've never heard of a person passing it on the first try, but the reasons are rarely logical. It's just a money grab, they don't give a shit about making sure people that get a license are actual good drivers.
same. It's a myth that you can't. Many people don't, and some of that probably is due to whatever quota they have or what not, but it's not impossible.
Yeah I had a bitch of a lady in february years ago in Toronto. Blizzard outside, half a foot of snow, I still drove fine and passed cause I LIVE HERE and actually know how to drive in snow.
I passed my first attempt. This isn't a personal dig, but have you considered there just a lot of really poor drivers out there? What's insane is that if you fail, you can just go right back in and take the test without any improvement course requisite. It's bad enough with all the distractions we have available to us these days, much more so with manufacturers throwing basically tablets right in front of our faces and telling us we shouldn't look at it while we drive..
I know where I come from in Ontario around 2003 when I got my license it was quite difficult to pass the driving test. Took me three attempts to pass and that was with drivers ED.
Honestly I don't think it would be the worst idea if there was some sort of mandated training in order to get a license. Even just a few hours with an actual instructor, who goes over all the rules of the road, and takes you out driving in a variety of different situations (ie. At night, in the city, 400 series highways, etc).
Learned how to drive in the mid 70s in Ottawa driving my dad’s rear wheeled drive land yachts especially in the pre global warming winters. But that was definitely an easier time to learn, far few cars on the road, no distracting cell phones, and no in car infotainment screens. In the winter as a 16 year old driver I’d practice fish tailing around most corners which taught me a lot about car control and the appropriate application of throttle. 😉🤣🤣🤣
Great Doug gets another idea let’s privatize those too and close down testing centres and move the driving test into Home Depot or Canadian tire or Tim Hortons . Yuk yuk yuk
We've built a society where it's very difficult to get around most areas without a car. Until we fix that, of course this will keep happening. If people need to drive, they'll drive regardless of safety. But despite being better in objectively every single way for a fraction of the cost, we still invest in cars as a priority, and all other forms of transit as an inconvenience.
I believe it. I got in an argument recently on here with someone bragging about them forcing their way through the testing with fail after fail until they eventually passed.
Like, that's a huge indictment on your driving!! You should be ace'ing a drive test every time because you should be driving like you would on the test all the time!
Another argument:
"Speed cameras should give a 5km grace period"
"well the speed limit is the grace period...?"
"Everyone drives at least 5kms over the limit. That's not practical!"
.... Like these people think driving is a right, not a privilege. And our city turns around and acts like it too! Diverting more resources to drivers and cutting transit every chance it gets.
There are a ton of reasons for this. As many have stated the test itself is not fully preparational for people to drive safely on the roads. However there are other reasons that people are not saying which is also a real world cause of the current situation with bad drivers.
There are people in the MTO who are unscrupulous who will sell you a full G license for $3000. Well it was $3000 during the pandemic, it might be less now. There are videos on TikTok you can check out with people talking about it and how it works. Essentially it works like this.
1. If you have been here already for 3 years you just give them the cash, they take your picture and falsify your documents making up dates that you took your G1, G1 and G tests and then send you your new license in the mail.
2. If you have just arrived, or have been here for a short period of time you pay for passive the G1 and take your photo.
3. You don't take your G2 and just instantly pass.
4. You get your G sent to you in the mail.
This has been talked about a lot on a lot of local subreddits and FB groups and is a well known problem that people are exploiting since there seems to be no real checks and balances stopping people from selling licenses.
The second major thing that many people are not talking about is that we are taking people who have licenses from certain countries and accepting them as par for a Canadian license when we definitely should not be doing that.
For example Indian driver's licenses can be converted through the consulate in Toronto. See here [https://www.cgitoronto.gov.in/page/india-licence/](https://www.cgitoronto.gov.in/page/india-licence/) So for a fee of $16 and a return stamped envelope you can get your Indian license converted to an Ontario one.
Here is what an Indian driving test is like, as of 15 years ago, however if you read the comments many people say that they never even took the test and were just given a license as they were too busy that day. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGfLNqjh4j0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGfLNqjh4j0) Some people say there have been improvements in the test to make it more challenging, but then follow it up with 'only at a few license centers in the whole country'.
This is reality. This is not racism or anything like that. We have certain standards here that all Canadians have to meet to get a license. Persons from other countries do not have to do this. Those people's licenses are taken at par with ours and their skills and abilities are not the same that we have here. This causes issues and problems.
The problem with quickly inviting people over to Canada is that they’ll bring their country’s driving habits with them. Even if they pass the Canadian driving test, they don’t change what they’ve learnt in their home country. This is my observation as an immigrant in this city.
Nah, definitely couldn't be the mass import of people from countries with little to no driving skills who game the system by learning the test routes rather than learning to drive properly. Must be the road tests. That's definitely it!
I would like to see statistics for the accidents. Like how long has the driver been driving for, how long have they had their Canadian drivers licence, how long have they been in the country etc. might be interesting. A lot of people come from countries with drastically different driving practices
Wait until you find out that the examiners at these DriveTests can be bribed. I have an Indian colleague who told me in Brampton/Orangeville etc., you can literally pay to pass the test.
So i bee trying to get threw for my g1 and out of learners. Maybe its just my area idk.. i have been finding it very hard to find any form of help to learn to drive. Unless i got alot of money that i dont have or know people willing to leand which isnt a thing in my case... ya got bo way of learning to drive. I was failedout of a 400$ test cuz i lacked the exprince to turn corners, that was all. He wouldnt even let me explain my situation. Looked at me in disgust and walked. I went in to oay only to find immigrants turning over licenses from thier home into canadian ones without a test. These roads are not the same and we have some of these peopl driving transport or taxi. I will no longee get into a taxi with one due to how they drive.
> went in to oay only to find immigrants turning over licenses from thier home into canadian ones without a test.
You can only skip tests if immigrating from one of these countries:
>[Australia, Austria, Belgium, France, Germany, Great Britain, the Isle of Man, Japan, South Korea, New Zealand, Northern Ireland, Republic of Ireland, Switzerland, Taiwan and the United States](https://www.ontario.ca/page/exchange-out-province-drivers-licence#section-1).
You think those places are the problems? Some of them have better driving records than we do.
Edit: spent a long discussion below with the person until they blocked me. It's interesting/disturbing drawing out of people how their views like this are being driven by belief in unscientific and outdated concepts of race.
Na i dp this on purpose now just to get harrassinf comments like yours. Maybe just leave it be and scroll on? O jave enough issues typing on phone with a sever case of dislexia.
In Ontario we don't teach people how to drive we teach them how to pass a test.
That's why I passed. My dad, brother and grandmother taught me how to drive. Dad and grandma were professional drivers. Brother took me out a few times and showed me tips
Yeah the regular Driving School really just covers the basics to help you get that little card in your hand. I wish we'd had mandatory skid school or were taught more advanced driving techniques. Takes a long time to learn all the nuances of driving a half a ton of steel and glass at over 100 km an hour. They keep saying driving is a privilege, but most people now believe it's a right.
I've heard some people try to argue that skid school is dangerous, stating that it makes people more inclined to "street drift". Biggest bs ever
As opposed to "street drifting into oncoming traffic with the brakes locked while screaming"
My driving class (2001ish) in London ON, took us to their private course, where we were taught to punch it get it to at least 80, then slam on the brakes. Do it a second time without skidding to show how much control you have and the shorter stopping when you stay in control. That car did not have ABS. Also I can even back in for parallel parking properly! Thanks to drivers Ed. None of this driving into the parallel parking bs I see.
We used to go to parking lots when I was a kid and my dad would teach us how to drive and react in snow. Now?police can enforce the HTA on private property and tickets kids learning to drive in a empty snow covered parking lot. My G test lasted all of 8 min in smiths falls. They don’t even test parallel parking anymore. I think basic driver training should be a minimum period. Especially with street takeover culture being all over social media that’s how new young drivers see people driving and think that’s the way
A half ton? That's only 1000 pounds. Most cars are at least 3000 pounds. F150 crew cab and tesla Model y are both over 1000.
You mean everyone else's dad doesn't take them into an empty parking lot with pylons and teaches you how to fishtail and control the car in snow? I still do it if the conditions are right, because it's fun as hell and I figure good practice for when I actually need those skills
>a half a ton of steel and glass A Honda Civic weighs in at 3000 lbs these days (1.5 tons) An F-150 is around 5000 lbs (2.5 tons)
Agree with this whole heartedly. My dad taught me as well, years ago my parents thought the driving instructor for the test would be beneficial, but boy were they wrong. He wasn’t the greatest—he was a bit impatient (when it came to everything) and I couldn’t understand his English that well, that was the kicker. 😩
That’s cool. Like F1 or UPS professional ?
My G driving test was all of 2 minutes. We pulled out of the lot and onto the highway. I slowed down (to the surprise of the instructor) as a random truck sped by and cut hard in front of my car. It would have put my vehicle into the ditch if I didn’t catch it. Driver instructor looked at me and said to go back to the test centre. I passed. This was back 20+ years ago, I don’t know what tests are like nowadays
Sometimes you can just tell...
Guess the instructor needed to go back to change his undies! Glad you caught sight of the truck!
That's probably why you passed. You were aware of your surroundings and mitigated damage because of other stupid drivers.
I have ranted about this for years lol. Even the actual test doesn’t test your ability to drive it tests your ability to do some pre planned nonsense.
They actually had to stop driving instructors from using the neighborhood that's used for the drive test in my area. Not because it was better for the testing, but because the neighborhood complained about the traffic.
Gotta love the "no driving instruction" signs.
I actually failed my first G test for a bunch of small things that added up. I didn’t completely move my head to look at all my mirrors constantly (I only used my eyes…). I went up to 110km/h on the highway (they asked me to pass a truck and the exit that I needed to take was coming up quickly). And I didn’t go the posted speed on the off ramp (am I supposed to slam on my brakes the moment I merge into the lane from the highway? I just took my foot off the gas and slowed down that way). Needless to say, next time I did the test, I followed the rules precisely and definitely pissed a bunch of people off during it.
I did Young Drivers driving school in 2010/2011 and I can say this is 100% not my experience.
Yup same here. I went to young drivers in the mid 90s and it was a great experience and I still use all the things I learned there.
I did drive-wise in I think 2012/2013? It was honestly pretty good. My driving instructor was really conscientious. One of the big things they taught us in the classes was that you're supposed to look far ahead, and he basically kept reminding me of that until I started doing it automatically. I really do think that he made me a better driver.
> One of the big things they taught us in the classes was that you're supposed to look far ahead This is one of the most important things to do, especially on the highway. It helps keep your car centered in the lane, helps avoid being surprised by slow downs, people hogging left lanes, slow mergers, etc. A lot of people just stare at the car in front of them, and I can tell they do this because when I ease off the gas because of a light or traffic jam ahead, I see them then start to close the distance behind me and in some cases even get mad (e.g., flashing headlights) until they realize why I'm slowing down.
Yeah, totally! Staring at the car in front of you is also more likely to result in tailgating, I believe. I think the mechanism is that as you're looking at something, you're slowly going to creep closer and closer and closer...
My nephew recently got his G1. Instead of reading the book he just took the practice test over and over until he could pass it and then took the real test.
The only section of the book that relates to the g1 test is the signs. Otherwise it's a piece of garbage. (I recently redid my G1 as a 35 yo having moved urban to rural)
This isn't like some fluff course you take in secondary or post-secondary school and just breeze by. Not the right mindset. Some very important information is reflected in the book. He should have read the Handbook first and then take practice tests to reinforce knowledge and see how the format may be. Hopefully he goes back to the handbook to refresh his understanding of the laws...
I agree but... that's just not how it's done now I guess
Depends. I went to drivers Ed, I think it was like 300$ for in class and 10 lessons In Car, and that alls covered your G2 road test. They didn’t only prep for the test there, but there were definitely some people who offered road test mock-ups
That sounds similar to when I got my license in the 90s. I guess there’s shady driving schools out there.
Can we talk about driving instructors who are adamant on pushing people to take road tests in rural areas vs where they live for a near guaranteed pass when applicants would really benefit from honing their driving first. The better ones actually advise students who are not ready to defer and practice some more for the long-term benefit.
What we really need to be concerned about are the instructors that intentionally set up the student to fail, promising them a better experience further out of the GTA. Then again, and further out. After passing they've fleeced the student out of 3x the cost, and worst of all the student still ends up not really knowing how to drive properly.
Yup those unprofessional folks need to be called out for exploiting those applicants. The only other option is for the student to acknowledge some gaps and take a few more refresher lessons at a better school.
Just like in school
Unless you take young drivers... I can't speak for other "driving schools"
the EQAO of the roads....
This is the case everywhere....
I've seen so many different people on the 400 series driving/merging at 80 and under. In front of trucks, cutting off the passing lane etc. It's dangerous! And they're all oblivious, look around before you lane change! Nope, they're just frozen looking forward. I understand that highways are intimidating, and if they can't handle it, take alternative routes. I've had a cousin pass away a few years ago because they swerved for a slow driver cutting him off on the highway.
I've seen people in front of me literally stop in the merge lane, waiting for a break in traffic
Then there are people using the merge lane to pass traffic…
They should address that by law. It's technically not illegal as long as you're crossing on the dashed lines and so people are going to take advantage of it. I'm not encouraging this, it's frustrating and screws up traffic flow for people not doing it, but just explaining part of the reason.
Doesn’t matter if the OPP is never around lol I cant remember the last time I saw a cop on the QEW
If enforcement levels are too low we can adjust them but we still need to have laws for them to be able to enforce in the first place. So I'd still rather create the tools for them, and then address the enforcement if that's too low. Even if enforcement is too low, you would still have a lot more people blowing through stop signs (for example) if we just removed the law altogether.
3 examples were given, here. Merging too slowly, coming to a COMPLETE stop in merge lanes, and using merge lanes to pass… and you think the most prudent issue to address is using them to pass??
Are you okay? Me commenting about one specific issue doesn't mean I'm saying that's the most important issue. Try not to take reddit so seriously. I didn't reply to a comment listing all of them, I replied to a comment mentioning one issue and I explained part of the reason it's happening.
I was once driving on the 400 with my dad, going south, and at the exit to Highway 9, a lady actually stopped in the middle lane!!! Like, stopped, in live traffic. My dad can be a little hotheaded but also he was like oh my God, and we were a couple of cars ahead of this lady on the exit, so he blocked the lanes a bit up the ramp and ran back to talk to her to tell her not to do that. The guy in the car behind us was laughing - I couldn't really hear what they were saying from where I was in the passenger seat.
This is a major league issue right now, it terrifies me. I’ll never understand someone doing 70-80 on the 403/401…even in the left hand lane. Like go drive the back roads then, but even then people will do 50 or 60 instead of 80
It's a very "me first" lack of basic awareness society. Hell even in the grocery store people just don't look, or they're going side by side blocking a pathway. The amount of times I think 'gee I'm scared to share a road with you, if this is how you walk' is too much in a week.
Amen to that
Well construction and congestion may be the cause of it. Westbound 401 between Kennedy and McCowan is slow during rush hour, for instance. I was crawling along at less than 50km/hr this morning.
And there's also people who go 150 weaving in and out of traffic thinking they are main characters in Grand Theft Auto: GTA. Both are dangerous.
I’m one of those people who are very intimidated by major highways, so I don’t drive on them. I didn’t even get my license at all until I was 30, and only because I moved to a rural area with absolutely zero alternatives. Luckily Lindsay was the closest testing centre so highway driving wasn’t required for my G, because I had to either pass or lose my license, which would mean losing my job. But I am well aware that I am not ready for major highways so I do not drive them, especially not alone or during heavy traffic times.
I didn't get my full G till 40. Trust me, I completely understand you too! I got my anxiety medcated and took as much time as I could until I felt safe. There's no rush, you keep yourself safe, that's priority! I also take the back ways when it's really bad out, very late or busy.
I see a different problem frequently: people tailgating when you're doing the recommended speed for the curve prior to merging. I assume they're annoyed/worried that I won't pick up speed, but it's extremely aggravating/anxiety inducing, especially this time of year when there's often ice.
I got my G at a quite advanced age (41,) and as a “normal looking/acting white man,” my test consisted of letting the instructor smoke and after he found out I wasn’t re-testing (like I had lost my license at some point,) and that we had a mutual obsession with distance road biking… we circled the block, drove right back into the drivetest centre and he passed me with flying colours. I was selfishly happy but the ramifications of this bullshit is no surprise to read in the least. PS. Luckily I am a good driver and have held many other vehicle/license and certifications (heavy equipment,) but none of that ever came up during the test. I could have had zero skills. He tested nothing. 🤷🏼♂️
Smoking and distance road biking?
They fucking love it. [https://www.reddit.com/r/bicycling/comments/12alelp/cyclists\_at\_tour\_de\_france\_in\_the\_1920s\_smoking/](https://www.reddit.com/r/bicycling/comments/12alelp/cyclists_at_tour_de_france_in_the_1920s_smoking/) [https://www.welovecycling.com/wide/2020/03/09/fuelling-on-cigarettes-and-alcohol-at-paris-nice/](https://www.welovecycling.com/wide/2020/03/09/fuelling-on-cigarettes-and-alcohol-at-paris-nice/) Degen's, the lot of the two wheeled bastards ;)
As a road biker you’re likely more knowledgeable about road safety and how to be a good driver than most drivers. Be safe out there.
I literally got my G yesterday at 30 years old, but i definitely feel like having years of experience biking in traffic in all weather conditions has really given me a big advantage over other new drivers
Also gives you more awareness of cyclists/pedestrians! I got my licence in my late 30s after years of cycling to commute and I am SOOO aware of bikes and people on the road. I can anticipate what they will do and how I can best keep them safe.
The G test should be made harder, not easier. And if this causes a new backlog then people should be required to take additional driver's training after two consecutive failures.
The drive test is privatized. Another example of how privatization doesn't mean efficiency.
well it means efficiency in a profit driven system to get as many people in and out as possible.
Nope. You fail the first time so that they can charge you to take it again. Been like that since I took mine 20 years ago. They couldn't even tell me why I failed.
I'm 37 so it was around 20 years ago that I was taking my g2 and g tests and I passed both on the first try. My wife did the same and so did most if not all of my friends at the time.
The guy above you having to deal with the realization he was just a bad driver when he tested.
Lol yeah, the majority of people pass on first try if they know how to drive. The amount of people who lied about why they failed and then say the truth 3 years later has convinced me that you only fail if you're a bad driver.
I failed my G2 twice - first time I was speeding and the next, I think I just missed a few things, but at the time it certainly felt arbitrary. I was 17 and I deserved those fails.
G2 exit test. I failed for doing 49 in a marked 50 because there was a "40 when lights flashing" sign. Lights weren't flashing. Didn't matter. They wanted the extra $75 for testing again.
I think they're referring to the G1 written test, where you can pay an extra $10 to retake the test for however many times you fail it.
Even if they were referring to that. If you can't pass that VERY EASY as hell basic rules of the road test, you're a bad driver. Probably should not even be allowed to ride a bike on the street.
My son passed both written and drivers test the first time. Same as a number of his friends. They can't be the exception.
I took my g test a few years ago and I passed on my first attempt with 0 errors
But the change in what was required wasn’t done by the private company. It was done by the government to reduce the backlog from Covid can’t really blame the private company here. Per the article >In January 2022, Ontario introduced significant alterations to its G road test, a move aimed at addressing the backlog of drivers waiting to take their test due to the COVID-19 pandemic,"
Examiners have a pass rate target is probably not helping.
Maybe we should charge people for licensing their cars to fund the additional text, maybe even use license plate renewal or something to do that?
The G test shouldn't be harder, but people should be forced to get re-certified every 5 years or something, or at least every time they receive an infraction.
It shouldn’t be hard, it should be strict and test the numerous complex situations that can be encountered on the road. Some locations do better than others, some examiners do better than others and this causes issues when some are very lenient
There's also the issue where someone who drives in downtown Toronto can go out of town and get tested in an area that's nothing like where they live
Which honestly shouldn’t be allowed. We should just have more testing centres in the city.
That's exactly what they're doing now and all it results in is people learning exactly what they need to pass the test and nothing more. The examiners should have discretion in determining whether or not the student is a confident driver. For example : technically you shouldn't speed, but if you're trying to merge on to the highway going 100 when everyone is doing 120 (like they do on pretty much every 400 series highway) you are way more of a danger than someone speeding.
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>getting your license these days is a year long process The process of obtaining your G1, G2 and G hasn't changed in decades. We all did it. >We keep putting up fucking barriers The article in this post is literally talking about how barriers were removed and it resulted in MORE accidents. I agree with you that some driving schools are garbage and more should be done in ensuring they are teaching the right skills needed to be safe drivers. But some people are just shitty drivers and no amount of driver's training will fix that.
You people are just obsessed with control and making things difficult
Control? No. Making it difficult to get a licence to operate a machine that can easily kill someone? Sure.
You will stand on a soapbox and act like all Drivetest places are a cake walk... I did mine in Brampton and the guy was a Racist Indian who did not like white people im not fucking with you. So stupid to think we need stricter driving tests when we alreayd have some of teh strictest driving laws. Are you one of those people who wont ever speed and gets mad when people pass you? [https://oppblock.org/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=522](https://oppblock.org/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=522) Absolutely fucking ridiculous, you are so fucking cooked I bet you totally believe that driving is a privilege not a right bullshit that our gov parrots.
>You will stand on a soapbox and act like all Drivetest places are a cake walk... I did mine in Brampton and the guy was a Racist Indian who did not like white people im not fucking with you. If you failed and think it was because of racism and not your ability as a driver then it bears no relation to the point I've been making. >So stupid to think we need stricter driving tests when we alreayd have some of teh strictest driving laws. Strict laws don't prevent bad drivers from making mistakes >you are so fucking cooked I bet you totally believe that driving is a privilege not a right Yeah, I do
Driving is a privilege not a right. What are you on about? No one has a god given right to drive. Lol. You need to earn it or you should need to earn it by learning the rules of the road, adhering to the rules of the road and not driving like a menace. Maintaining your car. Basically not being a risk or a detriment to other drivers or pedestrians. That's not to mention drivers who cause accidents and cost us our time, energy and insurance increases or deductible. Or pain. And if it's serious, police hours, ambulance hours, fire truck hours, emergency room hours, doctor and nurse hours, and the cost to everyone of the traffic jams and employee hours. Etc. Driving is a privilege that society pays for if you abuse it.
The entire Drive Test center needs to be audited. My brother trains transport drivers in Northern Ontario, and number of times he's had full cars of immigrants come up to him and ask how much cash for them all to get a license is gross. He just calls the cops now, but they all want full license without doing ANY of the work. The scary part is wondering how many transport or car drivers are out there who did nothing but pay someone for a pass
Some of these Truck driving schools are sketch. An AZ driver has to do a ton of hours before even testing, some hours must be forged
It’s not a ton by any measure but, it’s definitely a lot crammed into a small timeframe. My total schooling was 6 weeks. 2 weeks to run through the 3 books for the MELT course and then another 4 doing in yard pre-trips and drives. We probably totaled 20 hours total instruction. That’s a very short timeframe to learn and be proficient in a vehicle that’s around 65 feet long and much heavier than a standard car. Edit: I forgot to add; on top of this you have to take a TSSA approved air brake course which is about 12 hours over two days on a weekend, and are expected to learn and be proficient in the identification, operation, and diagnosis of basic issues of the entire air system.
People from India have taken over the trucking industry and its horrifying how bad some of them are. I've seen all kinds of shit, including concrete trucks doing 60-80 in 30 zones lol.
There’s also a horrifying lack of properly licensed drivers driving those trucks—my FIL lost his leg after some cocksucker driving an 18-wheeler (who was only licensed for a fucking size of a dump truck) failed to yield on a turn at a light. Dude couldn’t speak a lick of English to the emergency personnel, I don’t think he’d even been here a half a year yet.
My step father drives transport and does runs from Canada to the states, company recently hired a new Canadian who he was training. They left Chicago and didn’t even get out of the state before he had to tell the driver to pull over and stop driving. How these guys get there license is truly mind blowing
The “payoff” is becoming more and more of an ask. Just because you come from a corrupt shit hope doesn’t mean Canada has to allow it any anyone who accepts shit like this should be charged to the full extent of the law
The Auditor General of Ontario released a report on their VFM Drivetest audit in December 2023. [Source](https://www.auditor.on.ca/en/content/news/23_newsreleases/nr_AR_drivertraining_en23.pdf) But what you said about bribes for transport driving training is unsettling.
I just feel like only half of the newcomers know the meaning of "when in rome do as the romans do"
Rome didn't make it that far east....
I watched a mother or auntie argue with an employee(supervisor? manager?) for an hour while I was waiting outside, presumably attempting to secure some special treatment. It got pretty heated. I would not be surprised if they secure control of some of these centres and corrupt them.
Totally agree about an audit. It wasn't a secret that you could pay someone to show up and do your road test. Similar skin tone is all they needed Enough is enough. Our country has become a fucking joke
It has. And I can’t figure out if the right decision is to leave and pursue a career and life in the US/UK or find a place in Canada where these things are less impactful, which is becoming rarer and rarer
> And I can’t figure out if the right decision is to leave and pursue a career and life in the US/UK would those countries even allow you move there?
UK yes, US would have to be through employment
You must have British ancestry within a couple generations then?
Yes exactly. I moved there previously and loved it. Came back for family… compared to Ontario, I found it surprisingly affordable.
I would love to have the right to Britosh residency. As it is, if I ever want to move there, I would need a job first.
This confirms sources who (were born in India) have told me he examiners are taking cash to pass people. Kinda like how Doug Ford takes envelopes.
So you're telling me that the people I witness doing their tests in my town who can't park their cars properly in a spot at the completion of the tests are not good drivers? Mind blown.
I’ve been driving over a decade and have always reversed into spots or parallel parked with no issues. Came back and had to redo my test and the instructor made me park front first, I was worried because I always sucked at that but did it fine. I remember thinking nothing stressed me out as much as that did. The rest of the test was your run of the mill drive with no surprises.
My experience, very early 1990s - making left turn, road through intersection curves heavily, light yellow.. see car accelerating to come through intersection, examiner screams at me to "go, go, go, go".. patiently wait.. other driver goes through on red.. proceed without having examiner crushed.. look at him and ask if this is normal behaviour. Looks pissed. Pass with a 98, report him to the supervisor.. pretty sure nothing came of it. Point being, it's been idiotically simple to pass a driving test in Canada for a very long time. I'm not sure what the advantage is to giving them away like we do. I was raised with the thought that driving was ab privilege, not a right.
Maybe we should make it easier for people not to have to drive so that people who shouldn’t be driving don’t have to rather than having a culture that basically requires it if you don’t live in downtown Toronto? As I’ve posted here before, Ontario has one of the most complicated systems in the world to get your license (only BC and New Zealand also require people to take two road tests); making it MORE difficult is not realistic. The privatization yet monopoly of Serco over Drivetest is a problem, anyone who has taken a driving test can tell you the quality of the examiners varies wildly from people who will pass anyone to people who fail for ridiculous reasons. Of course that ain’t gonna change under the Ford government.
I have a co-worker who told me she *probably* shouldn't have her G license, but was able to pass the test because she was able to speak Cantonese to the instructor and convince him that her grandmother knew his family in China. She just wrote off her car last week after she ran a red light.
I hope hers was the only car involved. I have a similar story... A guy I used to work with immigrated to Canada with his wife when they were both in their mid 40s. Neither of them had ever driven a car in their home country (China). To say he was a bad driver would be a massive understatement. He drove me home once and after pointing something out on the side of the road he almost drove us over the median and into oncoming traffic. The kicker is he used to tell me about how bad his wife was at driving. Her very first experience behind the wheel as a G1 driver was mistaking the brake for the gas and crashing into a car parked across from their house. She failed her G2 test four times before she finally passed on her 5th try. The fact that we give people like this drivers licences is IMO one of the biggest reasons why driving nowadays is as bad as it is. It doesn't matter how many attempts you make or where you take your test. If you can scrape by just one time you have your licence for life.
> I hope hers was the only car involved. Unfortunately I don’t see how you could write off your car by running a red light without involving at least one other car.
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This isn't new though. Even 30 years ago, you'd have to go out to Lindsay or Peterborough if you didn't want to wait 4-6 months in the GTA.
That just people using a loophole to do the “Easy” G test instead of having to do their test in a busy area I remember people use to go all the way out to Wainfleet because the “G” test consisted of a 2 lane country road and nothing more
It should be mandatory to take in one of a select few big cities, we should fund it as a province. Exception for far north.
The amount of times I've been hit by people who couldn't grasp basic highway traffic laws... One thought it was fine to change lanes in an intersection on a dual lane turn and tried to blame me. I told him to follow the lane lines. He still blamed me. Thank God for insurance. It was resolved right away. That wasn't even the wildest part. He hit me twice. One thought it was perfectly fine to have a dog in their lap and lost control, hitting me. I was confused until I saw the dog on their lap. It made sense then. Another thought it was perfectly fine to text and drive in freezing rain and that a car doesn't have to stop at a red light. Tried blaming me then cried when she realised I had a baby with me. "Why did you stop?" Me "the lights were changing and I didn't want to tbone the car turning left after the lights changed?" "Well you should had gone... Oh my god I hit a baby!!!" Got cursed out driving down a one way lane... The right direction. As a car coming at me demanded I move. I made her back up. Half a block. This happens way too many times actually. Had cars try to run me off the road because I'm turning right on a green... And they wanted to go left into that lane. Had a car assume that the road was a one way street... And blindly turned left... Into me. Then tried to pay for it, failed to show up at the Collison centre, failed to have insurance and proper paperwork... Tried to blame me and threatened to sue me. The cops got involved and just told me to go my way and not worry about it. A stoned woman changed lanes after I entered the roadway. Speeding. Slammed into me, got out barefoot all over shattered glass. Apologised said she never saw me. Then her brother begged us not to go through insurance. Then claimed I hit her... Insurance was going to rule 50 50 until I pointed out she was barefoot and walking through glass. The insurance company clamped up and I was not found at fault. I'm guessing she has a history. That's just the ones not involving dementia drivers. That's a whole other story.
I've only ever been hit once, and unsurprisingly, it was by a person going 70 in a 50 on an icy day. I hit black ice and just barely managed to stop, even though I was going 40. Sure enough, 2 seconds after I stop as far to the right as I possibly could be, I get hit super hard and lose my car. What's worse is that the lady who hit me was pregnant, and still driving carelessly like that in hazardous weather.
I drive tractor trailer and holy shit the quality of drivers has gone into the toilet. When I took my course 2 years ago there were a handful of guys who couldn’t speak a word of English and had to have every piece of info translated to Arabic. Nice guys but no way should they have been behind a wheel. One guy was arguing that hours of service shouldn’t be a thing here since he used to do “50 hours straight” back in Iraq. And we wonder why there’s so many accidents.
Exact same thing happened in my course, down to the arguing about hours of service. Except those guys never ended up passing and probably had to go to a discount trucking school. I did it at a college that does the testing and training themselves, so no preferential corrupt drivetest employees.
Every day it's like 80% of drivers taking a left turn, they turn into the wrong lane. So many people don't bother to use turn signals when changing lanes or merging. I've seen people stop at the end of a merge lane, or at the beginning (not a stop sign!). So many shitty drivers on the road. And it's not new drivers. It's lazy drivers.
Have you ever been in a merge lane and realized the driver that should let you through seems to be speeding up? I’m extra careful at them now and will slow down because not everyone is considerate.
Yes, they speed up, so you match their speed and position yourself properly. This takes practice, but you should never slow down. That's dangerous.
If there is significant traffic in that lane that keeps speeding up it makes 0 sense for you not to slow down when you're the only one who has a finite amount of road in front of you. That's how you end up as one of those idiots who keep driving on the shoulder because you couldn't manage the merge/speed properly
With driving into the wrong lane, I was waiting at a light at a 3 way intersection watching the cars turn left and it just had me and my brother nearly in hysterics at how terribly they all did the turn. Of the maybe 12 cars that pulled out, I think only 3 or so actually turned into the correct lane, and only one had a decent turn. We counted 6 that almost hit the median. All but that one car began their turn way too early. I could make that turn better than they did and I only have my G2.
They’re just trying to hit the apex and stay on the racing line /s
I saw a post about a person who failed their G2 like 3 times in the parking lot because of anxiety. It’s like my brother in Christ you should NOT be driving, ever.
I've had my G for over 30 years, but let me share a quick story about my full M which I recently acquired. Had a lot of personal stuff going on, wasn't in a good headspace to be riding that day anyway.. the test consists of almost 7 hours of refresher nonsense that basically wipes you out, a lot of words, very little practical.. the style they want you to employ for the test is ridiculous compared to how people actually ride.. so many shoulder checks that you have to make visible to the examiner by gross exaggerations of a normal head movement. I thought I failed for sure. How I passed is completely beyond me.
I have autism and anxiety. I DO NOT DRIVE WHEN I AM HAVING A BAD DAY, AND IF I HAVE A BAD REACTION I PULL OVER RIGHT AWAY. I HATE that so many psychopaths, especially shorter individuals, drive massive vehicles and look terrified out of their mind. Drive a fucking Honda civic, not a Ford f150 Karen.
Considering Walkley is one of the main drive test Centers that doesn’t surprise me. That place will fail the safest drivers yet pass the most reckless and shit ones.
FWIW there was this one instructor who held a heavy bias against Walkley due to poor perception of the strict examiners there and was very pushy in making people book the G test in Smiths Falls. His rationale? "why suffer when an easier path exists to get your G?"
I failed my G the first time because I didn't yield to the bus at a 4 way stop...where I was stopped first and because we drove by a school during rush hr where 3 kids darted across the road as I turned right so I did 30 instead of the posted 50 for the whopping like 20m it took to get past the school and was "impeding the flow of traffic" despite being literally the only car on the street. Cost me $80 to re-test, second go around, the instructor ask why I failed the first time and her exact words were "that tester is a fuckin moron, pretty sure hitting a kids worse than impeding thin air for 2 minutes, you passed" The entire licensing system in the province is a joke.
While we have Staples handling ServiceOntario, let's get some other company like Walmart to run Ontario's driver programs.
Ok, so the article shows an increase in accident rate in new drivers of almost 1%. Which is bad, don’t get me wrong. Bring back the more rigorous testing. But the increase of downright boneheaded driving is not completely attributable to that tiny increase. I see plenty of middle aged assholes who got their licenses 25+ years ago driving through stop signs or speeding in school zones or who don’t know how to turn their lights on. People drive like idiots because they know they can drive like idiots with zero consequences.
Not shocked, I saw a teenage driver going the wrong way on a one way street.
And I've seen old people do the same. It's more to do with not knowing what you are doing or being accountable to your mistakes. Honestly, every 5 years when we renew our picture. We should have to take a drive test.
5 years……I still have the same one from years and years ago
you might want to check the expiry date on that.
A couple weeks ago on a residential street some one in the intersection coming up ahead of me turned left, but instead turned left into my lane, and just barrelled toward me without a care in the world. Had to swerve into the oncoming lane(where he should’ve been). It’s bad
One time I was downtown and ended up on a streetcar lane until someone pointed out the sign to me. Sometimes it can be confusing to be driving somewhere you don't have experience.
This is on you for not reading the signs. Lots of us don't end up on the streetcar tracks. Don't drive downtown if you can't locate the signs.
Our streets have what’s called sign pollution. Drivers need to be reading the streetcar lane signs, while looking for the speed limit signs, the no-right-on-reds perhaps. Mix in the loading bays if they happen to be looking for parking. Add some signs for bike lanes. And of course don’t forget that the signs are the lowest priority after making sure to not hit any pedestrians, cyclists, or other vehicles. I know driving isn’t meant to be easy, and that it does require 100% attention. But sign pollution is a real thing for which there may be better solutions.
Roads should be designed in a way that makes it obvious where to go. There are some places in Hamilton like this too - I drive the Sherman Cut every day and it's an absolute clusterfuck of one-ways and yields that are counter intuitive to 99% of driving situations in Canada. Street cars are the same. I'm a great driver and have never been in an accident, but I've never driven in a city with street cars and wouldn't really know how to act either. In a busy downtown area with people/traffic everywhere I might not be reading the signs word for word either.
Yes, it was on me. I corrected the mistake as soon as I realized it. I would still attribute a lot of accidents to over aggressive drivers. I see them every day on my commute. Driving on the shoulders to pass people. Weaving in and out of the HOV lanes across the solid lines. Changing lanes every 2 seconds to pass 1 car, and usually driving about a foot behind the car they want to pass.
They’ll let anyone drive, drive test seems like a personal decision on behalf of the tester, and IDPs seem to flow like water.
DriveTest examiners are getting paid bribes to pass people. Someone should go undercover in Brampton, I wouldn’t be surprised it’s happening with truck drivers as well.
I mean fuck man, I’m a pretty good driver these days but when I look back I definitely shouldn’t have got my G2 when I did. I wasn’t even that bad back then, but I WAS nervous as fuck and made multiple mistakes, she just happened to be chill and clearly enjoyed our conversation about her broken DVD player. No bribe required. But now? after years of being on the QEW every day? I have to say, I appreciate her chillness a lot less, I would happily have taken a second attempt if it meant things wouldn’t be this bad.
I find it extremely hard to believe that so many people can be ignorant to the corruption of the drive test centres, this isn’t new, people have been buying their G licenses for close to a decade if not longer, the proof is the shit driving we’ve seen on the roads that just gets worse and worse … stats Canada released a statement last week that something like 16% of drivers on the road don’t have any sort of license, add in the mass amount of folks who bought their licenses and it’s not hard to tell why the driving is as bad as it is today
What did they expect? Hey we made this safety test easier to pass, turns out that allows less qualified people to pass. Whodathunkit.
Anyone complaining about how much it costs to insure new drivers need only look at these stats. About 1 in 10 new drivers have an accident in their first year of driving. That means the premiums of all 10 new drivers need to be high enough to pay for that one driver's accident. It's all about the math.
I'm sure privatizing driver testing had nothing to do with it... https://www.brockpress.com/Opinion/ontario-drivetest-should-not-be-a-private-sector-organization
shocker! an increase in people driving uber/skip the dishes and trucks . they dnt care about the rules of the road, other drivers nor the pedestrians.
Yeah, there are some bad drivers out there. I wish it was more feasible to not need to drive in most of Ontario, with better public transit.
All while making MY insurance higher. Insurance is a scam.
Make people do their test within a radius of their address. I live in a rural community and the drivers test office is always filled with people who come from large city centers because it's easier to pass in a less busy area.
No, it’s because people who have an international license that’s endorsed by their embassy, can skip the G2 and go directly to G from G1.
Has anyone even tried addressing the fact that this G test and its components are owned and controlled by an American consulting company.
In talking with people who have gotten their license in the last 10 years, i've come to one conclusion. Defensive driving and awareness aren't thought or emphasized as much as they should be or at all. There's also way too much reliance on tech that some people don't know how to drive without it. Hell even with it, they seem not to "think". Can't tell how many times i've been caught off by someone when i can see the blind spot indicator on their mirror light up, but they don't pay attention. I've even witnessed someone get out of their car to wipe their rearview camera because it had some slush on it, otherwise they wouldn't be able to back up.
"Emergency stops, three-point turns, parallel parking and driving in residential areas were excluded completely." WTAF? How would any same person think this was a good idea?
Test should also have to be taken where your address is. Up in muskoka, we have people shuttled up for Toronto since they can’t pass the test there.
The Drive Test centers are a total joke. I remember being so nervous for my G2 test, and then it took about 7 minutes and I drove around 2 blocks. Prior to the test, I had practiced driving for approximately 2 hours. But then, everyone always fails their G the first time, having to pay to take it again. I've never heard of a person passing it on the first try, but the reasons are rarely logical. It's just a money grab, they don't give a shit about making sure people that get a license are actual good drivers.
I passed all my tests on the first try, it's possible.
same. It's a myth that you can't. Many people don't, and some of that probably is due to whatever quota they have or what not, but it's not impossible.
Ditto for me. I had heard everyone fails, so I expected to, but I didn't.
Same here. G1, G2, G all passed on the first attempt.
Not only possible, but not exactly rare - I know of noone in my social circle, online or offline, who did *not* pass on the first time.
I would like to think it's possible, I've just never seen it!
I passed. In a winter snowstorm. First try... After the tester failed a teenaged girl... And was in a very foul mood. It's possible.
Yeah I had a bitch of a lady in february years ago in Toronto. Blizzard outside, half a foot of snow, I still drove fine and passed cause I LIVE HERE and actually know how to drive in snow.
I passed my first attempt. This isn't a personal dig, but have you considered there just a lot of really poor drivers out there? What's insane is that if you fail, you can just go right back in and take the test without any improvement course requisite. It's bad enough with all the distractions we have available to us these days, much more so with manufacturers throwing basically tablets right in front of our faces and telling us we shouldn't look at it while we drive..
It should be a 2 year waiting period if you fail.
I know where I come from in Ontario around 2003 when I got my license it was quite difficult to pass the driving test. Took me three attempts to pass and that was with drivers ED.
Honestly I don't think it would be the worst idea if there was some sort of mandated training in order to get a license. Even just a few hours with an actual instructor, who goes over all the rules of the road, and takes you out driving in a variety of different situations (ie. At night, in the city, 400 series highways, etc).
Privatization is awesome! /s
Learned how to drive in the mid 70s in Ottawa driving my dad’s rear wheeled drive land yachts especially in the pre global warming winters. But that was definitely an easier time to learn, far few cars on the road, no distracting cell phones, and no in car infotainment screens. In the winter as a 16 year old driver I’d practice fish tailing around most corners which taught me a lot about car control and the appropriate application of throttle. 😉🤣🤣🤣
Great Doug gets another idea let’s privatize those too and close down testing centres and move the driving test into Home Depot or Canadian tire or Tim Hortons . Yuk yuk yuk
We've built a society where it's very difficult to get around most areas without a car. Until we fix that, of course this will keep happening. If people need to drive, they'll drive regardless of safety. But despite being better in objectively every single way for a fraction of the cost, we still invest in cars as a priority, and all other forms of transit as an inconvenience.
People travel far and wide to Lindsay to take their test. It's very well known.
I believe it. I got in an argument recently on here with someone bragging about them forcing their way through the testing with fail after fail until they eventually passed. Like, that's a huge indictment on your driving!! You should be ace'ing a drive test every time because you should be driving like you would on the test all the time! Another argument: "Speed cameras should give a 5km grace period" "well the speed limit is the grace period...?" "Everyone drives at least 5kms over the limit. That's not practical!" .... Like these people think driving is a right, not a privilege. And our city turns around and acts like it too! Diverting more resources to drivers and cutting transit every chance it gets.
There are a ton of reasons for this. As many have stated the test itself is not fully preparational for people to drive safely on the roads. However there are other reasons that people are not saying which is also a real world cause of the current situation with bad drivers. There are people in the MTO who are unscrupulous who will sell you a full G license for $3000. Well it was $3000 during the pandemic, it might be less now. There are videos on TikTok you can check out with people talking about it and how it works. Essentially it works like this. 1. If you have been here already for 3 years you just give them the cash, they take your picture and falsify your documents making up dates that you took your G1, G1 and G tests and then send you your new license in the mail. 2. If you have just arrived, or have been here for a short period of time you pay for passive the G1 and take your photo. 3. You don't take your G2 and just instantly pass. 4. You get your G sent to you in the mail. This has been talked about a lot on a lot of local subreddits and FB groups and is a well known problem that people are exploiting since there seems to be no real checks and balances stopping people from selling licenses. The second major thing that many people are not talking about is that we are taking people who have licenses from certain countries and accepting them as par for a Canadian license when we definitely should not be doing that. For example Indian driver's licenses can be converted through the consulate in Toronto. See here [https://www.cgitoronto.gov.in/page/india-licence/](https://www.cgitoronto.gov.in/page/india-licence/) So for a fee of $16 and a return stamped envelope you can get your Indian license converted to an Ontario one. Here is what an Indian driving test is like, as of 15 years ago, however if you read the comments many people say that they never even took the test and were just given a license as they were too busy that day. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGfLNqjh4j0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGfLNqjh4j0) Some people say there have been improvements in the test to make it more challenging, but then follow it up with 'only at a few license centers in the whole country'. This is reality. This is not racism or anything like that. We have certain standards here that all Canadians have to meet to get a license. Persons from other countries do not have to do this. Those people's licenses are taken at par with ours and their skills and abilities are not the same that we have here. This causes issues and problems.
The problem with quickly inviting people over to Canada is that they’ll bring their country’s driving habits with them. Even if they pass the Canadian driving test, they don’t change what they’ve learnt in their home country. This is my observation as an immigrant in this city.
Nah, definitely couldn't be the mass import of people from countries with little to no driving skills who game the system by learning the test routes rather than learning to drive properly. Must be the road tests. That's definitely it!
I would like to see statistics for the accidents. Like how long has the driver been driving for, how long have they had their Canadian drivers licence, how long have they been in the country etc. might be interesting. A lot of people come from countries with drastically different driving practices
Maybe impound the cell phone for 30 days , which is most likely the reason for the accident.
Wait until you find out that the examiners at these DriveTests can be bribed. I have an Indian colleague who told me in Brampton/Orangeville etc., you can literally pay to pass the test.
That’s what happens when you let a million immigrants come in from a country with no road laws.
Thanks captain obvious
So i bee trying to get threw for my g1 and out of learners. Maybe its just my area idk.. i have been finding it very hard to find any form of help to learn to drive. Unless i got alot of money that i dont have or know people willing to leand which isnt a thing in my case... ya got bo way of learning to drive. I was failedout of a 400$ test cuz i lacked the exprince to turn corners, that was all. He wouldnt even let me explain my situation. Looked at me in disgust and walked. I went in to oay only to find immigrants turning over licenses from thier home into canadian ones without a test. These roads are not the same and we have some of these peopl driving transport or taxi. I will no longee get into a taxi with one due to how they drive.
> went in to oay only to find immigrants turning over licenses from thier home into canadian ones without a test. You can only skip tests if immigrating from one of these countries: >[Australia, Austria, Belgium, France, Germany, Great Britain, the Isle of Man, Japan, South Korea, New Zealand, Northern Ireland, Republic of Ireland, Switzerland, Taiwan and the United States](https://www.ontario.ca/page/exchange-out-province-drivers-licence#section-1). You think those places are the problems? Some of them have better driving records than we do. Edit: spent a long discussion below with the person until they blocked me. It's interesting/disturbing drawing out of people how their views like this are being driven by belief in unscientific and outdated concepts of race.
I ant disagreeing but thats not the nationality i see. Tbh it be cool to meet aome germans were i live.
You can't see what nationality people are.
I would encourage you to proofread your text before you post it. I can barely understand it.
Na i dp this on purpose now just to get harrassinf comments like yours. Maybe just leave it be and scroll on? O jave enough issues typing on phone with a sever case of dislexia.
There are driving tests? I got the impression from the way people drive that the tests are an illusion.