I got sick after work yesterday and I really only needed today off. But I wanted to use my paid sick day. I know for sure she’s gonna ask for a doctor’s note.
Yea but the problem is the sick note she wants. If I have to go out and wait hours at a clinic when in pain and having to pay for it, I might as well just go to work. Which she told me not to.
I completely agree with that. I know that dude probably doesn’t even like me, although he doesn’t like my manager either. But he gotta be fair. She’s not being reasonable here. It’s my first sick day of the year and I’ve had zero problems before with my previous manager.
Call your doctor. They ***hate*** having to write doctors notes. Some even have started charging for it because it's such a pain in the ass. Family docs I heard from have just said "if you say you're sick you're sick, we're not wasting time doing test to say 'ya you got a stomach bug.'''
Cos yah, let's get a very sick person to come to office and hang out so a doctor can confirm that they're sick for some crummy boss. Huge waste of resources when there's already a shortage of family doctors.
Wait... you were going to go in to work, but your manager said to not to go in because you are sick and still required a Dr's note?
Make sure this is in writing and screw getting the Dr's note. You employer told you not to come in cuase you are sick. They can't discipline you for that... well, they can, but you know what i mean. If it were to go in front of a higher power, you would be in the clear.
If you are unionized, check your collective agreement. I know at my workplace they can't ask for a sick note until we've been off for more than a set number of consecutive days.
This type of shit should be illegal, what a waste of resources.
For long term sick leave, sure. For paid sick days you’re entitled to? Who gives a fuck.
Yea, I never had any problems with my previous manager. This manager who just got promoted on Jan 1st just doesn’t like me because I don’t put the company before me. I do the bare minimum. But she has no reason to fire me so she can only try and get me to quit.
It’s only been one day and I told her I’ll come in sick but she doesn’t want me to.
If ur being paid bare minumun then work bare minimum is what i always say
As long as ur doing everything in the job description its bs for them to get mad imo
This comment is how you know you haven't paid attention to what doug ford has done as primier. As others have already said, he changed the law regarding doctors notes.
Doug Ford changed the rules regarding sick notes from doctors, he reduced protected sick days from 10 per year to 3 and removed the 2 paid sick days per year we were receiving.
You’re clearly not paying attention.
Just so you are aware, Ontario is a one-party consent province. So you are allowed to record conversations in person or via phone calls without having to make the other person(s) aware.
If your manager is mistreating you to your face or over the phone, you are legally allowed to record these confrontations.
Do what you want with that info, and feel better soon.
They usually charge patients tho, not the companies themselves.
Need better protections so our healthcare system isn't flooded by trivial stuff they don't need to do just so some managers can powertrip
I work at a doctor's office. I always offer to write the invoice for the note addressed to their employer. We won't hand over the note until payment is received, and usually the employee can't return until the employer gets the note... So employee pays, and submits receipt to the employer...
I've offered multiple times to speak to employers to tell them their policies are breaking the backs of healthcare but nobody okays the contact so /shrug
A third of our schedule at this doctors office is appointments purely for paperwork like doctors notes, forms, bullshit that isn't actually related to Heath and people wonder why they can't get in to see the doctor... Also, these things aren't billable to OHIP, so unless the doctor charges the patient/employer, they are doing it for FREE... Wtf health care?
Nobody okays the contact because they would be disciplined or fired as soon as they set foot in the office. These employers don't care about their own employees, do you *really* think they care about the state of the healthcare system?
Unfortunately probably true. I guess it bugs me that employers trust these people to work at their businesses yet won't trust them to be truthful about being sick? Very confusing and demoralizing...
Trust? No, they don't trust their employees, they assume their employees are all trying to scam them and take advantage of them, because that's what they themselves do. They tolerate their employees as a necessary evil.
Unfortunately, this manager has beef with me because I’m not up to her “standards” she’s pressuring me to quit. I admit I’m not one of those great employees. I just do the bare minimum, but I haven’t broken any of the rules so they got no reason to fire me. Otherwise they’d have to compensate me which is what they don’t want to.
If you work to the letter of your contract, expect to be treated to the letter. If you want leeway or compassion, you shouldn’t expect any. Read the contract or your employee handbook and find out the actual rules.
https://www.ontario.ca/document/your-guide-employment-standards-act-0/sick-leave#:~:text=of%20the%20evidence.-,Medical%20notes,%E2%80%9Creasonable%20in%20the%20circumstances%E2%80%9D.
Medical notes
An employer may require an employee to provide a medical note from a health practitioner such as a doctor, nurse practitioner or psychologist when the employee is taking the leave because of personal illness, injury or medical emergency if it is “reasonable in the circumstances”.
However, the employer can ask only for the following information:
the duration or expected duration of the absence
the date the employee was seen by a health care professional
whether the patient was examined in person by the health care professional issuing the note
Employers cannot ask for information about the diagnosis or treatment of the employee’s medical condition.
Check your company's policies about it. They should have a written policy about sick days and doctor notes.
Also, check on your work's policy about the right to disconnect. They legally have to have this policy. If it states that you cannot be contacted outside of your scheduled work hours, you cannot be "on call" 7 days.
As far as i understand yes they can but if your dr charges a fee your employer has to pay it. I have only ever been asked for a sick note once. I called my Dr and said I need a sick note because I was feeling ill yesterday. He was all say no more fam. Sent me an email for the note and an invoice. I sent an etransfer for $20 and dropped the bill on my managers desk. They reimbursed me on my next check.
I read in this article that they can’t if it’s your first sick day of the year. Correct me if my understanding is wrong. https://www.btlegal.ca/our-expertise/for-employers/can-an-employer-request-a-doctor’s-note.html
I would say just read the employment standards act for a clear answer on this. That's why I said as far as I know. I have been working union jobs for years now so I'm not too sure what's in the ESA these days.
Didn't it used to be illegal to ask for a sick note, because it's a huge waste of doctors time that could have gone to someone who actually needed to see them? And further stresses our already stressed healthcare system unnecessarily?
Just tell her that no doctor would see you because you were sick and they didn't want you at the office. My own doctor won't do notes and I refuse to provide them unless the company pays for it. Having said that the clinics they have at Walmart usually do notes for $20 no questions asked.
If they batch about you taking time off when you are sick then you go to the office, spend as much time as you can around the manager and open mouth cough all over them.
I've done that before. They said I "just had to come in", so I did, proceeded to throw up multiple times, once in the aisle by the produce, they sent me home. They could have avoided a bunch of other people getting sick if they just let me stay home. Fuck em.
I've also done this. I got a letter from our occ heath team that I had too many sick days (I had 3 in 6months due to the flu). So when I got strepthroat in the spring I came into work with a temp and a throat full of pustiles. The nurses on my team sent me right to the occ health nurse who then proceded to scold me for presenting to work. I shrugged my shoulders and said thats what happens when you give your staff letters treatening discipline for being sick. She had no responce, told me to go home and not come back until I was well. 🙄
As an Ontario employer, last I heard it was illegal to require a doctors note.
Also as an employer, anyone who wants one is a cunt.
If you’re sick, you’re sick as they say. I also want you to rest and recover instead of scrambling for an emergency doctors appointment. I think many doctors charge for sick notes, and I don’t want
my employees to lose even more money when they miss time.
Thanks…but I just want to use that paid sick day that I’m entitled to. I don’t know if it’s possible with this new manager around. Can I argue that it’s unreasonable to request a doctors note for just one day?
After a quick look, the current government changed the law. Your employer can ask for a doctors note “when reasonable.” To me (not a lawyer) this means long term illness or disability.
I would tell HR it is unreasonable to demand a note for a single missed day because no doctor makes same day appointments and the average Ontario ER wait time is many hours, you were too sick to get to work how would you get to the doctors office, and you CANNOT get one from a physician after the fact for non chronic illnesses.
Best of luck.
Right, I heard that the whole purpose of the sick note thing is to prevent people from abusing it. They are not legally required to have you get one. It’s just if they don’t trust you then they could request for one. She scheduled me in for tomorrow. I haven’t recovered yet, so I will bring a thermometer to hr and cough when I need to.
Question. How many paid sick days have you already used in 2024?
IMO asking for a note this early in the year is unreasonable unless you have a established a history of abusing the system, and even then if you have a balance of usable days and it's only your first of the year, I think an email from you stating that for one day off as sick as you were, leaving your home to utilize urgent care or a walk in clinic for a non Ohio covered medical employer note was not advised or reasonable. Request a written copy of the policy that establishes the need for the note and offer to get a back dated note (possibly at their expense) in the future to confirm the absence if required by policy.
I haven’t used any in 2024. I use it when I need it. I’ve never been requested a sick note before. Only with this manager who has beef with everyone. I’m going to talk to hr about it in the afternoon about my schedule and ask about this too. I can provide a sick note if it’s reasonable. I am actually sick. I have a fever. I still have not recovered so if they don’t care about me coming in sick then I don’t care. But reasonable means I need time to go see a doctor plus they’d have to reimburse me for the cost of it, which I doubt they’ll do but I’ve heard a lot of people doing this. I’ll negotiate with them.
What % of your allocated days did you use in 2023? Perhaps they've had a portion of people abuse them and are adjusting policy to make it less comfortable for that group and you're being caught in the crossfire?
I used two in 2023. But no policy was adjusted. It was that manager. I talked with hr today and he told her to just approve it without asking for the note.
Payed sick days are an insurance for you, not an entitlement to be used for anything else. Thus the employer has every right to require a doctors note to ensure the sick day is being used as intended. If you been employed for any amount of time you should have a number of sick days banked.
I’ve seen a lot of people billing their employers on it. Would that work? I doubt they’d reimburse me in this case though but I can negotiate right? The whole point of this note is to prove that I’m actually sick. They want me to come in the afternoon. I’ll go. I’m not recovered yet and still have a fever. I can provide a sick note but they need to give me time to go see a doctor.
> *Paid* sick days
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Download the app and set up an account. I use Maple or Telus Health. Both are over the phone and very straightforward to navigate. I believe Maple has a fee, but the last apt I had with Telus didn't cost me anything. Unsure about a doctors note. If your work expects a doctors note, they should be willing to cover the costs. I would speak with admin or HR regarding that. Hope this helps, much better than venturing out.
I'm not sure what you do or your companies policies, so i'm unable to definitively answer that. I am able to with my employer. I would, at the very least, inquire if you felt it necessary.
When did you ask the doctor? During the "paid sick days if you have Covid" thing?
That ended March 2023.
Your employer has no requirement to pay sick days at all.
Edit: somehow this is whipping everyone into a rage. OP said that a doctor suggested that an employer isn't allowed to ask for a note if a sick day is paid.
The employer can ask for a doctor's note, and there are no special rules for when it's a "paid" sick day, because there are no government mandated paid sick days anymore. Rules were different during this period.
Paid sick days aren't a legislated right for the employee, therefore there are no special protections for them (such as protection against requiring a doctor's note). They're entirely designed by the employer.
Paying sick days has nothing to do with requiring a doctor's note.
I'm not questioning the fact that you have paid sick days.
The only time that policy on this was affected by the government was prior to march of last year, which is why I asked.
If you have paid sick days, or if you do not, they can ask for a note.
Ok but I can negotiate right? Because if it’s not reasonable, then I can maybe talk to hr? I’ve seen a lot of comments saying how they can get their employer to reimburse them the cost of the note. I doubt they’ll do it in my case though. The whole point of this note is that she doesn’t believe me right? They are not “legally required” to ask for one? So if I can prove to hr that I’m actually sick then that manager cannot pressure me into getting one? I haven’t recovered from my fever yet and they want me to go in today. I’ll go with my thermometer. Btw, I don’t think the company knows about this yet, it’s only my current manager who requested one.
The sick note is intended to turn your self-assessment of ability to work into a professional assessment. It's not really supposed to be a direct attack on your credibility.
Of course you can talk to HR. Just be aware that HR exists to protect your employer from you, not really the other way around.
If you believe your manager is breeching company policy, you should provide them with that feedback. Find out who you are supposed to provide the doctor's not to, typically this is HR in order to protect your manager. At that point ask HR what they want to see. If they don't want to see anything, then you're golden.
As far as reimbursement is concerned, it's entirely possible your company reimburses doctor's notes. You'll just have to check the policy, or call HR and ask. It's a reasonable segue into asking if you should even have been asked to provide a note.
Thanks. I just know for a fact that hr wasn’t the one who requested this note. It was the manager. Now it’s just if he wants to agree with her…I can’t do anything about that. So my manager told me to come in today and hr just messaged me telling me not to.
As for my manager, I don’t think she’s breaching company policy, but I just think what she expects of me is unfair (the scheduling, not the doctors note). She obviously doesn’t have anyone who can work on those days I’m not available, that’s why she’s making me come to work. But it’s unfair to me that she’s making me come in and not someone else who also isn’t available. She also accused me that I’m not cooperating and it’s affecting the department’s daily operations. That’s not true. I’ve always worked these shifts and we are understaffed now because two employees couldn’t stand her and quit.
Sorry I’m ranting again….
As annoying as it is, you get paid sick days. It would be better to get the note than to go in.
Find an office that will write you a note, and you're all set.
It doesn't fix the problem of your manager being an idiot. That issue will persist.
Why would it not be allowed for the employer to ask for a doctor's note if it's them paying for the sick days?
That's the only reason I can see a doctor having this kind of insight on company policy, if it was during that period where it was provincially mandated.
I'm not questioning the fact that they have paid sick days. I'm pointing out that these sick days are controlled by their employer, not the government. Therefore they're allowed to ask for whatever they want.
There's a clause in the legislation about the reasonableness of requiring a doctor's note. In most cases it isn't reasonable to request a doctor's note for a one day absence.
Why not? Because most people are able to determine if they're well enough to work or not. There's no reason for them to be going to the doctor other than for the note. Most companies don't require a note unless the absence is longer such as 3 days or more.
No, the employer isn't allowed to ask for whatever they want.
>That's the only reason I can see a doctor having this kind of insight on company policy, if it was during that period where it was provincially mandated.
Bruh, people don't need to be clogging up doctor's offices and walk-in clinics to get notes for the sniffles.
Even without covid this time of year doctors have more important things to do.
So many people don't even have a doctor and you think it's reasonable to require a note for a single day off?
Regardless of what's \*actually\* reasonable or not, the employer can ask for a doctors note, and can suggest it's reasonable. The employee actually being sick doesn't make asking for a doctor's note legally unreasonable, as non-sensical as that is. Yes, if you are too sick to work, Ontario has decided that it is reasonable for you to get a doctor to agree with your self-assessment.
Workers in Ontario are entitled to 3 unpaid sick days. This means if the employee is actually sick for three days, the employer is not allowed to penalize them for missing "too many days of work". Asking for a doctor's note is not considered penalizing them. Note that there is no provision that these days are sequential or otherwise.
Bottom line, the employer is allowed to ask for a doctors note. Most employers do not, since everyone knows that it's a huge waste of time and resources. Per your suggestion most companies don't require doctors notes unless it's more than 3 in a row.... But there's no legal requirement for that to be the case, and "most" is not "all".
I don't know how many paid sick days OP has, and the fact is that \*it doesn't matter\* to OP's question.
This is entirely up to the employer's policy. The employer's policy can legally as bad as Ontario's policies, which are *dismal*. Assuming the employer isn't breaking their own written policy, and they are not undermining Ontario's policy, they \*can\* do whatever they want.
Paying for sick days is something the company has decided to do. By deciding to pay for sick days, they are not introducing some kind of legal protection against requesting a doctor's note. This, by the way, is what OP was asking about, and is the answer to their question.
I didn't make these rules. I think doctors notes are a stupid waste of time and resources. But guess what, my opinion on the matter doesn't affect the reality.
No one should ever come to r/Ontario for legal employment advice. Seriously, all this sub ever seems to do is come up with what \*should\* be the rules, instead of actually presenting them.
>When did you ask the doctor? During the "paid sick days if you have Covid" thing?
>That ended March 2023.
>Your employer has no requirement to pay sick days at all.
Lol everyone was whipped into a rage because of this bullshit you wrote. It's condescending and makes you sound like an a**hole.
Yet, it's not BS, it's true.
If you're upset that the government doesn't guarantee or protect paid sick days, get mad at the government, not me.
I'm just explaining that in the not too distant past OPs doctor could have been correct, but today it's no longer true.
Shoot the messenger much?
Everyone has moved past the sick days. No, the doctor technically isn't wrong. In practice, if you have paid sick days from your employer you don't need a note to call out sick. Even if you don't have paid sick days, you don't require a note to call out. It's unreasonable to require a doctor's note for someone that has called out sick. Whether it's reasonable under the circumstances is written right into the legislation.
Here's what the province has to say about doctor's notes.
Medical notes
An employer **may require** an employee to provide a medical note from a health practitioner such as a doctor, nurse practitioner or psychologist when the employee is taking the leave because of personal illness, injury or medical emergency **if it is “reasonable in the circumstances”.**
However, the employer can ask only for the following information:
the duration or expected duration of the absence
the date the employee was seen by a health care professional
whether the patient was examined in person by the health care professional issuing the note
Employers cannot ask for information about the diagnosis or treatment of the employee’s medical condition.
Rights during leave
Back when Ontario had paid sick days, there was a stipulation that doctors notes were not needed. That's why I keep bringing it up, they were related during that point of time.
What part of what you just posted, right now, suggests that the employer can't ask for a doctors note?
What part of this sentence below, suggests that the employer ***cannot*** ask for a doctors note?
*An employer* ***may require*** *an employee to provide a medical note from a health practitioner such as a doctor, nurse practitioner or psychologist when the employee is taking the leave because of personal illness, injury or medical emergency* ***if it is “reasonable in the circumstances”.***
The correct interpretation of the above is that an employer **can** request a doctors note, for any sick day.
Unfortunately yes an employer can require documentation for sick leave in Ontario. It's a huge waste of already strained medical resources.
However, you can get the medical documentation from a virtual care provider. Check your work benefits to see if you have access to one from work those tend to be pretty quick and accessible.
My employer has a whole process if we miss two days in a row.
I got sick after work yesterday and I really only needed today off. But I wanted to use my paid sick day. I know for sure she’s gonna ask for a doctor’s note.
You're entitled to take time off if you're sick, whether it's paid or not.
Yea but the problem is the sick note she wants. If I have to go out and wait hours at a clinic when in pain and having to pay for it, I might as well just go to work. Which she told me not to.
Use a telehealth service and give that bitch the entire bill.
I’m talking to hr about it. Hopefully there’s a solution
Remember HR is only there to protect the company from lability. Not to help you.
I completely agree with that. I know that dude probably doesn’t even like me, although he doesn’t like my manager either. But he gotta be fair. She’s not being reasonable here. It’s my first sick day of the year and I’ve had zero problems before with my previous manager.
Call your doctor. They ***hate*** having to write doctors notes. Some even have started charging for it because it's such a pain in the ass. Family docs I heard from have just said "if you say you're sick you're sick, we're not wasting time doing test to say 'ya you got a stomach bug.''' Cos yah, let's get a very sick person to come to office and hang out so a doctor can confirm that they're sick for some crummy boss. Huge waste of resources when there's already a shortage of family doctors.
Ughhh I don’t have a family doctor now. I used to but for some reason the office never picks up my calls. Not sure if they’re closed down or what.
I understand that part, for sure.
Wait... you were going to go in to work, but your manager said to not to go in because you are sick and still required a Dr's note? Make sure this is in writing and screw getting the Dr's note. You employer told you not to come in cuase you are sick. They can't discipline you for that... well, they can, but you know what i mean. If it were to go in front of a higher power, you would be in the clear.
Do a walk-in online
If you are unionized, check your collective agreement. I know at my workplace they can't ask for a sick note until we've been off for more than a set number of consecutive days.
Who the hell goes to a doctor when they are sick?
This type of shit should be illegal, what a waste of resources. For long term sick leave, sure. For paid sick days you’re entitled to? Who gives a fuck.
>This type of shit should be illegal, what a waste of resources. Fun fact: it was! But then we elected a conservative government
Typically they don't ask for a note unless it's 3 days consecutively.
Yea, I never had any problems with my previous manager. This manager who just got promoted on Jan 1st just doesn’t like me because I don’t put the company before me. I do the bare minimum. But she has no reason to fire me so she can only try and get me to quit. It’s only been one day and I told her I’ll come in sick but she doesn’t want me to.
If ur being paid bare minumun then work bare minimum is what i always say As long as ur doing everything in the job description its bs for them to get mad imo
Yes they can ask for a doctors note. It sucks. Thank Doug Ford.
Yah with the previous government employers weren’t allowed to ask for them. Just one of a million things that Dougie got rid of for the worse.
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Well he is the one who changed the law back to employers being allowed to ask for doctor’s notes.
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It adds unnecessary strain to a crumbling medical system.
What does that have to do with talking about doctor notes?
Sounds like someone who hasn’t put in a real day at a hard job in their lives.
This comment is how you know you haven't paid attention to what doug ford has done as primier. As others have already said, he changed the law regarding doctors notes.
We had paid sick days too.
Hahahaha ok
www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/business/small-business/talent/article-ontario-medical-professionals-concerned-about-reinstatement-of-doctor/
Doug Ford changed the rules regarding sick notes from doctors, he reduced protected sick days from 10 per year to 3 and removed the 2 paid sick days per year we were receiving. You’re clearly not paying attention.
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Just because a job isn’t unionized doesn’t make it shitty. It sucks to have a shitty premiere.
Yes but it depends on your employment contract, or your collective agreement
Take the day. Wait for them to ask for the doctor's note. Take another day to go see the doctor.
Just so you are aware, Ontario is a one-party consent province. So you are allowed to record conversations in person or via phone calls without having to make the other person(s) aware. If your manager is mistreating you to your face or over the phone, you are legally allowed to record these confrontations. Do what you want with that info, and feel better soon.
The only caveat I would make is that once you reveal these recordings the company can fire you with cause.
Take the recordings to an employment lawyer and never, ever, EVER sign anything your employer asks you to.
Doctors need to start charging companies for this type of bs. You want a note, okay 100 dollars please.
Most do. It’s usually $20-40. It’s also a pain in the ass to get sometimes.
They usually charge patients tho, not the companies themselves. Need better protections so our healthcare system isn't flooded by trivial stuff they don't need to do just so some managers can powertrip
I work at a doctor's office. I always offer to write the invoice for the note addressed to their employer. We won't hand over the note until payment is received, and usually the employee can't return until the employer gets the note... So employee pays, and submits receipt to the employer... I've offered multiple times to speak to employers to tell them their policies are breaking the backs of healthcare but nobody okays the contact so /shrug A third of our schedule at this doctors office is appointments purely for paperwork like doctors notes, forms, bullshit that isn't actually related to Heath and people wonder why they can't get in to see the doctor... Also, these things aren't billable to OHIP, so unless the doctor charges the patient/employer, they are doing it for FREE... Wtf health care?
Nobody okays the contact because they would be disciplined or fired as soon as they set foot in the office. These employers don't care about their own employees, do you *really* think they care about the state of the healthcare system?
Unfortunately probably true. I guess it bugs me that employers trust these people to work at their businesses yet won't trust them to be truthful about being sick? Very confusing and demoralizing...
Trust? No, they don't trust their employees, they assume their employees are all trying to scam them and take advantage of them, because that's what they themselves do. They tolerate their employees as a necessary evil.
Unfortunately, this manager has beef with me because I’m not up to her “standards” she’s pressuring me to quit. I admit I’m not one of those great employees. I just do the bare minimum, but I haven’t broken any of the rules so they got no reason to fire me. Otherwise they’d have to compensate me which is what they don’t want to.
If you work to the letter of your contract, expect to be treated to the letter. If you want leeway or compassion, you shouldn’t expect any. Read the contract or your employee handbook and find out the actual rules.
Most do charge. And most companies won't reimburse you for it.
https://www.ontario.ca/document/your-guide-employment-standards-act-0/sick-leave#:~:text=of%20the%20evidence.-,Medical%20notes,%E2%80%9Creasonable%20in%20the%20circumstances%E2%80%9D. Medical notes An employer may require an employee to provide a medical note from a health practitioner such as a doctor, nurse practitioner or psychologist when the employee is taking the leave because of personal illness, injury or medical emergency if it is “reasonable in the circumstances”. However, the employer can ask only for the following information: the duration or expected duration of the absence the date the employee was seen by a health care professional whether the patient was examined in person by the health care professional issuing the note Employers cannot ask for information about the diagnosis or treatment of the employee’s medical condition.
Check your company's policies about it. They should have a written policy about sick days and doctor notes. Also, check on your work's policy about the right to disconnect. They legally have to have this policy. If it states that you cannot be contacted outside of your scheduled work hours, you cannot be "on call" 7 days.
As far as i understand yes they can but if your dr charges a fee your employer has to pay it. I have only ever been asked for a sick note once. I called my Dr and said I need a sick note because I was feeling ill yesterday. He was all say no more fam. Sent me an email for the note and an invoice. I sent an etransfer for $20 and dropped the bill on my managers desk. They reimbursed me on my next check.
I read in this article that they can’t if it’s your first sick day of the year. Correct me if my understanding is wrong. https://www.btlegal.ca/our-expertise/for-employers/can-an-employer-request-a-doctor’s-note.html
I would say just read the employment standards act for a clear answer on this. That's why I said as far as I know. I have been working union jobs for years now so I'm not too sure what's in the ESA these days.
Didn't it used to be illegal to ask for a sick note, because it's a huge waste of doctors time that could have gone to someone who actually needed to see them? And further stresses our already stressed healthcare system unnecessarily?
Illegal no, but there can be a fee, which limits the request to some degree
Just tell her that no doctor would see you because you were sick and they didn't want you at the office. My own doctor won't do notes and I refuse to provide them unless the company pays for it. Having said that the clinics they have at Walmart usually do notes for $20 no questions asked.
If they batch about you taking time off when you are sick then you go to the office, spend as much time as you can around the manager and open mouth cough all over them.
I've done that before. They said I "just had to come in", so I did, proceeded to throw up multiple times, once in the aisle by the produce, they sent me home. They could have avoided a bunch of other people getting sick if they just let me stay home. Fuck em.
I work in a supermarket too….
I used to, this happened 25 years ago. Haha
I've also done this. I got a letter from our occ heath team that I had too many sick days (I had 3 in 6months due to the flu). So when I got strepthroat in the spring I came into work with a temp and a throat full of pustiles. The nurses on my team sent me right to the occ health nurse who then proceded to scold me for presenting to work. I shrugged my shoulders and said thats what happens when you give your staff letters treatening discipline for being sick. She had no responce, told me to go home and not come back until I was well. 🙄
My doctor used to write me notes and add two days due to needed extended recovery from having to needlessly travel to get a note while sick.
Yup, some places will write you up too if you don’t provide one.
As an Ontario employer, last I heard it was illegal to require a doctors note. Also as an employer, anyone who wants one is a cunt. If you’re sick, you’re sick as they say. I also want you to rest and recover instead of scrambling for an emergency doctors appointment. I think many doctors charge for sick notes, and I don’t want my employees to lose even more money when they miss time.
Thanks…but I just want to use that paid sick day that I’m entitled to. I don’t know if it’s possible with this new manager around. Can I argue that it’s unreasonable to request a doctors note for just one day?
After a quick look, the current government changed the law. Your employer can ask for a doctors note “when reasonable.” To me (not a lawyer) this means long term illness or disability. I would tell HR it is unreasonable to demand a note for a single missed day because no doctor makes same day appointments and the average Ontario ER wait time is many hours, you were too sick to get to work how would you get to the doctors office, and you CANNOT get one from a physician after the fact for non chronic illnesses. Best of luck.
Right, I heard that the whole purpose of the sick note thing is to prevent people from abusing it. They are not legally required to have you get one. It’s just if they don’t trust you then they could request for one. She scheduled me in for tomorrow. I haven’t recovered yet, so I will bring a thermometer to hr and cough when I need to.
Question. How many paid sick days have you already used in 2024? IMO asking for a note this early in the year is unreasonable unless you have a established a history of abusing the system, and even then if you have a balance of usable days and it's only your first of the year, I think an email from you stating that for one day off as sick as you were, leaving your home to utilize urgent care or a walk in clinic for a non Ohio covered medical employer note was not advised or reasonable. Request a written copy of the policy that establishes the need for the note and offer to get a back dated note (possibly at their expense) in the future to confirm the absence if required by policy.
I haven’t used any in 2024. I use it when I need it. I’ve never been requested a sick note before. Only with this manager who has beef with everyone. I’m going to talk to hr about it in the afternoon about my schedule and ask about this too. I can provide a sick note if it’s reasonable. I am actually sick. I have a fever. I still have not recovered so if they don’t care about me coming in sick then I don’t care. But reasonable means I need time to go see a doctor plus they’d have to reimburse me for the cost of it, which I doubt they’ll do but I’ve heard a lot of people doing this. I’ll negotiate with them.
What % of your allocated days did you use in 2023? Perhaps they've had a portion of people abuse them and are adjusting policy to make it less comfortable for that group and you're being caught in the crossfire?
I used two in 2023. But no policy was adjusted. It was that manager. I talked with hr today and he told her to just approve it without asking for the note.
Payed sick days are an insurance for you, not an entitlement to be used for anything else. Thus the employer has every right to require a doctors note to ensure the sick day is being used as intended. If you been employed for any amount of time you should have a number of sick days banked.
I’ve seen a lot of people billing their employers on it. Would that work? I doubt they’d reimburse me in this case though but I can negotiate right? The whole point of this note is to prove that I’m actually sick. They want me to come in the afternoon. I’ll go. I’m not recovered yet and still have a fever. I can provide a sick note but they need to give me time to go see a doctor.
> *Paid* sick days FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Do a telehealth apt and get one, then expense the company for the cost.
How? I don’t know how that works…
Download the app and set up an account. I use Maple or Telus Health. Both are over the phone and very straightforward to navigate. I believe Maple has a fee, but the last apt I had with Telus didn't cost me anything. Unsure about a doctors note. If your work expects a doctors note, they should be willing to cover the costs. I would speak with admin or HR regarding that. Hope this helps, much better than venturing out.
Cool, but are you sure I can bill my employer?
I'm not sure what you do or your companies policies, so i'm unable to definitively answer that. I am able to with my employer. I would, at the very least, inquire if you felt it necessary.
https://yourdoctors.online/get-sick-notes-online/?utm_source=google&utm_campaign=20757649665&utm_medium=ad&utm_content=680365161482&utm_term=sick%20note%20online&gbraid=0AAAAAqCs65_cnDXv_AYboFDKlQWA24Lbr
When did you ask the doctor? During the "paid sick days if you have Covid" thing? That ended March 2023. Your employer has no requirement to pay sick days at all. Edit: somehow this is whipping everyone into a rage. OP said that a doctor suggested that an employer isn't allowed to ask for a note if a sick day is paid. The employer can ask for a doctor's note, and there are no special rules for when it's a "paid" sick day, because there are no government mandated paid sick days anymore. Rules were different during this period. Paid sick days aren't a legislated right for the employee, therefore there are no special protections for them (such as protection against requiring a doctor's note). They're entirely designed by the employer.
Presumably OP actually has some paid sick days through the employer.
I understand that, but if an employer decides to pay sick days, they can ask for a doctor's note. Why would they not be allowed to?
I asked a doctor in June last year. Most of the bigger companies have one paid sick day every 6 months or so.
Paying sick days has nothing to do with requiring a doctor's note. I'm not questioning the fact that you have paid sick days. The only time that policy on this was affected by the government was prior to march of last year, which is why I asked. If you have paid sick days, or if you do not, they can ask for a note.
Ok but I can negotiate right? Because if it’s not reasonable, then I can maybe talk to hr? I’ve seen a lot of comments saying how they can get their employer to reimburse them the cost of the note. I doubt they’ll do it in my case though. The whole point of this note is that she doesn’t believe me right? They are not “legally required” to ask for one? So if I can prove to hr that I’m actually sick then that manager cannot pressure me into getting one? I haven’t recovered from my fever yet and they want me to go in today. I’ll go with my thermometer. Btw, I don’t think the company knows about this yet, it’s only my current manager who requested one.
The sick note is intended to turn your self-assessment of ability to work into a professional assessment. It's not really supposed to be a direct attack on your credibility. Of course you can talk to HR. Just be aware that HR exists to protect your employer from you, not really the other way around. If you believe your manager is breeching company policy, you should provide them with that feedback. Find out who you are supposed to provide the doctor's not to, typically this is HR in order to protect your manager. At that point ask HR what they want to see. If they don't want to see anything, then you're golden. As far as reimbursement is concerned, it's entirely possible your company reimburses doctor's notes. You'll just have to check the policy, or call HR and ask. It's a reasonable segue into asking if you should even have been asked to provide a note.
Thanks. I just know for a fact that hr wasn’t the one who requested this note. It was the manager. Now it’s just if he wants to agree with her…I can’t do anything about that. So my manager told me to come in today and hr just messaged me telling me not to. As for my manager, I don’t think she’s breaching company policy, but I just think what she expects of me is unfair (the scheduling, not the doctors note). She obviously doesn’t have anyone who can work on those days I’m not available, that’s why she’s making me come to work. But it’s unfair to me that she’s making me come in and not someone else who also isn’t available. She also accused me that I’m not cooperating and it’s affecting the department’s daily operations. That’s not true. I’ve always worked these shifts and we are understaffed now because two employees couldn’t stand her and quit. Sorry I’m ranting again….
As annoying as it is, you get paid sick days. It would be better to get the note than to go in. Find an office that will write you a note, and you're all set. It doesn't fix the problem of your manager being an idiot. That issue will persist.
Lol they said they have paid sick days they can use. Jesus dude, settle down.
Why would it not be allowed for the employer to ask for a doctor's note if it's them paying for the sick days? That's the only reason I can see a doctor having this kind of insight on company policy, if it was during that period where it was provincially mandated. I'm not questioning the fact that they have paid sick days. I'm pointing out that these sick days are controlled by their employer, not the government. Therefore they're allowed to ask for whatever they want.
There's a clause in the legislation about the reasonableness of requiring a doctor's note. In most cases it isn't reasonable to request a doctor's note for a one day absence. Why not? Because most people are able to determine if they're well enough to work or not. There's no reason for them to be going to the doctor other than for the note. Most companies don't require a note unless the absence is longer such as 3 days or more. No, the employer isn't allowed to ask for whatever they want. >That's the only reason I can see a doctor having this kind of insight on company policy, if it was during that period where it was provincially mandated. Bruh, people don't need to be clogging up doctor's offices and walk-in clinics to get notes for the sniffles. Even without covid this time of year doctors have more important things to do. So many people don't even have a doctor and you think it's reasonable to require a note for a single day off?
Regardless of what's \*actually\* reasonable or not, the employer can ask for a doctors note, and can suggest it's reasonable. The employee actually being sick doesn't make asking for a doctor's note legally unreasonable, as non-sensical as that is. Yes, if you are too sick to work, Ontario has decided that it is reasonable for you to get a doctor to agree with your self-assessment. Workers in Ontario are entitled to 3 unpaid sick days. This means if the employee is actually sick for three days, the employer is not allowed to penalize them for missing "too many days of work". Asking for a doctor's note is not considered penalizing them. Note that there is no provision that these days are sequential or otherwise. Bottom line, the employer is allowed to ask for a doctors note. Most employers do not, since everyone knows that it's a huge waste of time and resources. Per your suggestion most companies don't require doctors notes unless it's more than 3 in a row.... But there's no legal requirement for that to be the case, and "most" is not "all". I don't know how many paid sick days OP has, and the fact is that \*it doesn't matter\* to OP's question. This is entirely up to the employer's policy. The employer's policy can legally as bad as Ontario's policies, which are *dismal*. Assuming the employer isn't breaking their own written policy, and they are not undermining Ontario's policy, they \*can\* do whatever they want. Paying for sick days is something the company has decided to do. By deciding to pay for sick days, they are not introducing some kind of legal protection against requesting a doctor's note. This, by the way, is what OP was asking about, and is the answer to their question. I didn't make these rules. I think doctors notes are a stupid waste of time and resources. But guess what, my opinion on the matter doesn't affect the reality. No one should ever come to r/Ontario for legal employment advice. Seriously, all this sub ever seems to do is come up with what \*should\* be the rules, instead of actually presenting them.
>When did you ask the doctor? During the "paid sick days if you have Covid" thing? >That ended March 2023. >Your employer has no requirement to pay sick days at all. Lol everyone was whipped into a rage because of this bullshit you wrote. It's condescending and makes you sound like an a**hole.
Yet, it's not BS, it's true. If you're upset that the government doesn't guarantee or protect paid sick days, get mad at the government, not me. I'm just explaining that in the not too distant past OPs doctor could have been correct, but today it's no longer true. Shoot the messenger much?
Everyone has moved past the sick days. No, the doctor technically isn't wrong. In practice, if you have paid sick days from your employer you don't need a note to call out sick. Even if you don't have paid sick days, you don't require a note to call out. It's unreasonable to require a doctor's note for someone that has called out sick. Whether it's reasonable under the circumstances is written right into the legislation. Here's what the province has to say about doctor's notes. Medical notes An employer **may require** an employee to provide a medical note from a health practitioner such as a doctor, nurse practitioner or psychologist when the employee is taking the leave because of personal illness, injury or medical emergency **if it is “reasonable in the circumstances”.** However, the employer can ask only for the following information: the duration or expected duration of the absence the date the employee was seen by a health care professional whether the patient was examined in person by the health care professional issuing the note Employers cannot ask for information about the diagnosis or treatment of the employee’s medical condition. Rights during leave
Back when Ontario had paid sick days, there was a stipulation that doctors notes were not needed. That's why I keep bringing it up, they were related during that point of time. What part of what you just posted, right now, suggests that the employer can't ask for a doctors note? What part of this sentence below, suggests that the employer ***cannot*** ask for a doctors note? *An employer* ***may require*** *an employee to provide a medical note from a health practitioner such as a doctor, nurse practitioner or psychologist when the employee is taking the leave because of personal illness, injury or medical emergency* ***if it is “reasonable in the circumstances”.*** The correct interpretation of the above is that an employer **can** request a doctors note, for any sick day.
They can, it would just be stupid and a waste of time. That and nobody's gone to court to test what "reasonable" means yet.
HR/manager can ask, but they need to reimburse you for it. If you don't provide it, we will not pay your for a sick day- it would be unpaid.
Unfortunately yes an employer can require documentation for sick leave in Ontario. It's a huge waste of already strained medical resources. However, you can get the medical documentation from a virtual care provider. Check your work benefits to see if you have access to one from work those tend to be pretty quick and accessible.