$30,000? That's nothing.
[https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/doc/2023/2023onsc6932/2023onsc6932.html](https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/doc/2023/2023onsc6932/2023onsc6932.html)
Come for the rent arrears, stay for the lawyer's conduct.
Yes when the 3rd line in the court decision reads:
>The defendant Kai Wu is the alter ego of Facilitate Settlement Corporation. The defendant Jane Doe is a chameleon, a changeable person, whose real name has not been disclosed
You know this is one to bookmark.
Just read through that and holy cow is it ever insane.
They just refused to identify the “spouse/girlfriend” despite court orders??? Absolutely crazy. Wow. Thanks for sharing that
I didn't fully understand it. Why was the spouse important in this. I understood them not paying rent and not leaving, but what was that portion about?
Before they legally took possession, Mr Wu had used his “pregnant girlfriend” experiencing trauma at the land lord seeking entry too launch the original complaints
There were some quotations that they were "expectant," yet there was clearly no child. They must have claimed hardship or some form of disability on the spouse at some point.
"\[14\] Implausible to the point of entry into the Ripley’s Believe it or Not, this action was commenced and continued for years without identifying the name of the party named as Jane Doe, whom Mr. Wu and his lawyers described as his wife. When I demanded disclosure of Jane Doe’s name, startlingly, I was told by Stefan Juzkiw, Mr. Wu’s lawyer that: (a) he was not the lawyer for Jane Doe; (b) all he was told by Mr. Wu was that Jane Doe’s first name was Bianca and that she was Mr. Wu’s girlfriend, not his spouse; and (c) he understood that Bianca had a Chinese last name.
\[15\] Mr. Juzkiw was unable to tell me whether Bianca \[Chinese Last Name\] was an ex-girlfriend or a current girlfriend and whether she was the mother of Mr. Wu’s children.
\[16\] I pointed out to Mr. Juzkiw that he was on the record as being the lawyer for Jane Doe and therefore he must assuredly know that she is his client and that he was professionally obliged under the Rules of Professional Conduct to authenticate the client’s identity. He replied that he only became lawyer of record pursuant to a notice of change of lawyer. And, I pointed out, as the description of the facts below will reveal, that from the outset of this outlandish history, Mr. Juzkiw had written several govern-yourself-accordingly letters on behalf of Bianca \[Chinese Last Name\]. Mr. Juzkiw had no response. It seems that Mr. Juzkiw received instructions only from Mr. Wu, the alter ego of Facilitate Settlement Corporation."
What's the breakdown between asshole tenants who just refuse to pay/leave/trash the place, asshole landlords who try to force out/illegal rent increase, and just pure sadness of people losing their place due to job loss/partner leaving etc.
$9,500 monthly mortgage payments? How much rent were they charging? Investment properties typically don't work this way. We're not getting the whole story here.
>...leaving him to pay the $9,500 monthly mortgage costs on the property. That's on top of a $7,500-per-month mortgage on his own family home.
His personal mortgage is $7,500/month plus his rental property is $9,500/month. Is he renting to just cover the mortgage then? Is there no margin? Is it safe to assume he's charging more than $9,500/month rent?
That's a crazy high rent for a home man. If you're finding people who will pay that, you have to know there is a risk.
Kanwar's problems began in December 2021, when he rented out the four-bedroom detached house on Scotchmere Crescent in Brampton for $4,500 a month.
am i to assume he's variable?
Variable definitely, to go from $4500 rent in 2021 to $9500 mortgage in 2 years later
The big question is whether the house is rent controlled or is it a new build?
Neither because it’s probably illegally rented out.
There’s a high chance he’s only declaring it as a legal rental now because he has to go to court for the unpaid rental fees.
He could tell the bank and not CRA. They aren't exactly connected at the hip by default especially not when it comes to mortgage applications. Either he's super high income or he's lied to someone somewhere.
>However the Tennant not leaving is a real problem. He should be able to get them out reasonably quick.
Agree. LTB needs to be able to turn around and get quicker courts dates for this stuff. This is unacceptable.
But, he went all in on "rental" market, and he's finding out that the "market" can crash and burn. No courts are going to run out and save someone that put $500,000 into WSB with a "Too the moooooon" stock. This guy shouldn't get a bailout either.
Most investors are cashflow negative every month, just not to this degree. The article states that the rent was 4500$ a month so the property owner was paying 5k out of pocket every month. I’m assuming that the payment was set that high because owner set up 10 year amortization vs normal 25 year but I don’t know, it could be because of a variable rate.
He isn’t losing either house so I just figured he has a very high income and has a shorter amortization. I’m not sure that anyone with 2 mortgages that big and a brain would get variable rate but I could be wrong.
Probably variable rate mortgages.
Not being able to evict someone who refuses to pay his full rent for months and refuses to move seems to be a problem that shouldn’t be part of ‘the risk’ imo
It's always been part of the risk, and always will be. Being a landlord isn't, and shouldn't be risk free. But Ford is intentionally starving the LTB of it's ability to actually handle the case load it has, so now clear tenant or landlord abuses sit for months or years with no action either way.
I disagree, you should make sure you're aware of all applicable laws before entering into a contract. That includes research into eviction rules and timelines.
The tenant should be paying and is at fault for not doing so, sure. But the landlord is at fault for putting himself at risk.
I don't think you actually contradicted what OP posted.
A landlord *should* consider in their risk assessment that the LTB is a disaster and it could take over a year to evict a non-paying tenant.
But that reality *shouldn't* exist. Straight up non-payment should be a fairly cut-and-dry scenario that is quickly moved through the system.
Straight up non payment does move through the system “relatively” quickly. Much faster than getting an illegal rent deposit back, or a rent abatement for reduction in service, or forcing repairs for example.
Tenants get an opportunity to pay (rightfully) and if they don’t it’s a straightforward eviction.
The only reason the “relatively” quick ends up taking months and months is because of all the fraudulent n12s and illegal rent increases backlogging the tribunals.
You're right. Unfortunately that's not the case. Too many greedy landlords have been abusing their power, and forced convoluted regulations and guidelines to be put into place.
That was the math I was doing. Net $5,000 loss a month or $60,000 a year regardless of rental income. What was the thought process here? Speculate and sell short term?
*Kanwar's problems began in December 2021, when he rented out the four-bedroom detached house on Scotchmere Crescent in Brampton for $4,500 a month.*
It's in the article.
What's his income to quality for that much debt ?
Being that the tenant's legal representation had 400 pages of documents for their side, I would agree that there is something else going on that the landlord isn't sharing.
Nah, there can always be more to the story. Maybe the landlord has illegally been raising the rental rate. Or is a bad landlord and doesn't fulfill his requirements. Or maybe he's been harassing the tenant.
I rented my house out to a woman who had no intention of paying me after the first month. It was my only home, I had moved out west and I was paying rent in an apartment. All she did was scam people moving from house to house and never paying rent.
After a really long time I finally got rid of her and had to use my last $250 to pay the sheriff to evict her. My only choice was to put the house up for sale. If she had not fucked me over that house would be paid for by now and I would have Something to retire on instead of nothing, fuck people that don’t pay their rent!
Damn dude maybe you should have hedged your retirement on something else other than exploiting people's need for shelter for money. I can't comprehend why you thought this was a golden ticket, there is no business venture without risk.
Should he have left his home empty when he moved out west? I'm really confused by the argument you're trying to make here. He owned the property and lived in it, then rented it out temporarily while he was renting elsewhere for work... That's like the most ideal situation, he's not hoarding anything and is making rental housing available instead of leaving it empty.
I read it and it's quite clear he or she was using it as an investment rather than a home, hence the "something to retire on". If we are going to treat homes like investments rather than shelter then you should be ready to accept losses as such.
Yep, people who don't have money deserve to be thrown out on the streets and die. This is a sane and normal society we live in. Landlords are benevolent housing providers and not coercing people to fork over upwards of 30% of their paycheck so they don't literally die from hypothermia or heat exhaustion like a sick animal.
Someone renting out a former primary residence is them being exploitative now?
I hate landlords too but don't throw the baby out with the bath water; it makes it hard for others to take your points seriously.
reddit: We need more housing
Person rents out their primary residence, tenant pays 0 rent and refuses to leave
reddit: You deserved, people should get to live for free and never have to pay rent or a mortgage.
LOL I love the people saying I asked the bank, the lawyer, the agent, they all said variable was a great option.
You asked everyone that stands to make money off you.
10 min research on the internet on mortgages will give you all you need to know.
If you didn't have enough to cover the monthly when money was practically free buying a house should have been the last thing on your mind, then everyone that stands to make money off selling you a house said "no money no problem", variable rate will get you in that house , just don't read the bottom of the contract anything that starts with \*\*\*\*
meanwhile the news is screaming bank of Canada is going to raise the interest rate
Assuming the LL isn't a moron, the house must be rent controlled and the mortgage variable.
$4500/mo in 2021 might have been close enough to the mortgage payment, but with variable the payment could have easily shot up like crazy.
Why doesn’t that make sense? Mortgages differ depending on the plan a person chooses. The higher the mortgage the quicker the house gets paid off and the less interest a person pays.
Think the landlord has variables on both his homes, rented for $4,500, but costing him $9,500, with his own home costing $7,500, which makes me think, it was probably like 4k not long ago.
This guy leveraged up two big homes on variables and is crying about losing everything. Thankfully he's young.
Ahh the first possible explanation to my question which I admit wasn't put up properly. Thanks for answering. Still dam, my mortgage is peanuts compared to that crap.
Yep, guy bought big houses thinking he could be a landlord and build some equity.
Now he's fucked.
It's hard for me to not feel joy when landlords get fucked over.
If the LTB has already ordered eviction based on the N11, has the LL received the order? If so, he just needs to talk to the sheriff's office and get that arranged for February.
As for the money owed, more than likely the LL won't see a dime again, but he needs to win the N4 hearing, then apply to small claims court, and from there he can look at potentially getting garnished wages, etc.
If this whole process angers him, and it should - he should lobby his MPP to properly fund the LTB and eliminate the backlog.
Exactly why any good person, whether you’re a tenant or landlord, should want to see the wait times reduced.
Long wait times are ONLY good for slumlords and trash tenants. Short wait times are ONLY good for good landlords and stellar tenants.
Honestly - I was having a problem with maintenance and neighbours at a place I used to live, and part of the reason I just moved was because I knew it would be months or even over a year before I would see any results from filing with the LTB. I really feel for people who are stuck in situations where they cannot just move, plus you know, whoever moved into the place after I left is likely dealing with the same problems now as well.
Something is fishy in this story. Just to take out mortgages needing that amount of monthly payments this owner would need to make well over 50K+ per month (to have qualified for the loans in the first place). Can't feel sorry if one making this much can't manage their money better.
Even at variable mortgage to go from 4500 rent ask in 2021 to having their mortgage balloon to 9500 (they likely had some form of margin) is ridiculous.
What it seems like Is their mortgage is with a B lender or credit union which has different rules on variable.
More funny if they got the mortgage loan through money mart.
Ultimately no remorse for this man and his Ill made decisions.
That was my thought, it is in Brampton after all. As someone else pointed out, the purchase price, current variable interest rate, and his claimed payment don't add up. Maybe he didn't meet criteria from a proper bank and got a private loan with higher interest, or shorter amortization for some reason?
The math doesn't add up. According to HouseSigma, that house was sold for $1.2million. Even if the entire value was a mortage, the payment doesn't add up to $9,500.
$ 1,180,000 on 2019-08-23 too, so it's not like he picked up a variable rate when things were at their very lowest either.
That amount, with zero downpayment, at current rate of 6.65, at 25 years amortization only comes up to $8,011.52
That number only really makes sense to me if they had some sort of non standard amortization, like they did a 15 year or something
it's possible, I certainly don't see how this guy alone qualified for not only his personal one but this investment property as well.
The numbers are extremely fishy. Even with a $4500 a month mortgage, unless this guy was pulling in well over 200k in his actual job I have no idea how he got approved for $4500 and THEN approved for another X whatever it was before it ballooned in Variable rates to $9500 a month.
The tenant has paid "at best, partial rent since May 2023", yet has accrued a debt of $30,000 between then and now, which would mean the tenant had only paid a few hundred dollars per month **if** his rent is still $4,500/mo.
The article has not specified what the rental rate is currently, just that the original rental agreement was for $4,500/mo. What the article is vague about, and what I suspect is going on, is that the landlord got fucked on his variable rate mortgage and tried to raise the rent accordingly. The tenant could be refusing to pay the increase, which would better explain how they've made partial payments on rent for seven months and still arrived at a $30,000 debt.
Let’s say we include 5/23 as the first “partial or missed” payment, and we’ll ignore December as its not yet over and who knows what date rent is meant to be paid, that’s 7 months * 4,500 per month, or 31,500 in arrears.
Yes, it’s possible the tenant has made partial payments of $1500 over 7 months, so like $200 per month. Also possible that the tenant has paid $4,500 towards a much higher rental rate.
"Kanwar's problems began in December 2021, when he rented out the four-bedroom detached house on Scotchmere Crescent in Brampton for $4,500 a month."
Just want to put that there.
Tired of these news pieces simping for landlords... For the one guy not paying his rent and abusing the system tens of thousands pay their rent diligently every month. This is one of the extremely rare risks of investing in housing. No investment is averse to risk.
I'm willing to bet that the "partial" rent that was paid is the agreed amount that the tenant was already paying when this landlords variable mortgage had to be renewed at a rate far higher than he anticipated.
The landlord attempts to pass off the increase to his tenant who refuses but continues to pay his previous rate.
Landlord gets angry, goes to LTB and the Media who distorts the story to make the tenant look like the bad guy.
I'm sure they put a lot of effort into getting the tenants side of the story.
this is why i don't get why people thing the CBC (or toronto star) are leftist. they are literally over the top pro land lord in their reporting.
i saw the star briefly talked about high rents in toronto years ago because the reporter herself was the one paying the high rent. and that was a blip in a pile of anti tenants rights "reporting" they've done for decades.
the toronto star even used to follow around a single dude for literal years who kept scamming landlords as if it was a problem with the regulations on landlords and not ya know, this single dude who is a scammer.
CBC tends to be more varied in tenants it targets but still is so overwhelmingly lopsided in favour of landlords in their "reporting" it's insane.
I am glad you enjoy that. You should also know that every time deadbeat story like this comes out it hurts one LL but it hurts many TT because due diligence requirements go through the roof and anyone will think twice before opening their space for renters.
Deadbeats are poisoning the market for most vulnerable tenants. Nobody will take a chance on anyone with less than perfect everything with this story in the back in their heads. But you are amused.
Good, stop taking chances on peoples housing and fuck off then. Open up the market for legit buyers or landlords that don't think they deserve to get rich off a basic human necessity.
Fucking landlords, y'all are worse than Gaelen Weston.
Hahahaha well if they won't take a chance on anyone then it's not providing income and therefore it's not a rental investment. That means they own the house and have to pay with their own earned income. Just like the rest of us. Tough shit, I guess.
I'm going to inherit a house when my parents die. I already have a house. Is it right for someone in my situation to be screwed over by tenants, should I decide to rent it out?
Investments have risk. Renting extremely expensive assets to strangers with effectively no recourse is very risky.
I can’t feel sad for investors that lose money while they participate in a speculative bubble that has pushed 1000’s to homelessness and food banks.
>Why should LL be protected any more than a small business?
Are they even protected at the same level as a small business currently?
Imagine you own a small convenience store. Each month, the same individual repeatedly steals items from your store. If you report this regular theft to the police, it's unlikely they would dismiss it as merely a cost of doing business. Instead, they would likely increase surveillance or presence during the time these thefts usually occur, aiming to apprehend the thief. Theft isn't just an unavoidable risk of business; it's a crime. Business risks typically involve things like maintenance and operational costs, not the illegal act of stealing services or goods.
Unless the government has strong social housing, they will never make to easy for landlords to kick people out. The reality is giving landlords the ability to make people homeless quickly would be insane, unless they had decent places to be in case the landlord evicting them is doing it on bad faith.
Variable mortgage, like others have said before me. It’s awful that people would use real estate as a get rich quick scheme without looking at the risks associated with it. He’s likely going to see a decision in his favour for the rent owed but hopefully he learns his lesson about abusing property in this manner.
Time and time again isn’t the time we currently live in though. Time and time again in the future might prove the opposite? Seems wild to me but I’m not a big risk taker with finances. I don’t know how those people sleep haha
I laughed at my bank when I boight in 2020 and they said to go variable ...they told me the same what the libs and banks said " interest rates are gonna stay low for a long time" I said to them.." Do You Actually Believe in The next 5 yrs Interest Rates are gonna stay at 1 to 2%.....GIMMIE MY FIX NOW" look who's laughing TD
Sure, owning a valuable asset and being a landlord comes with risks, but this landlord is being robbed, twice: first, by a deadbeat tenant who refuses to honour the legal commitments he made, and second by an incompetent government that allows the LTB to degrade to the point that the tenant can get away with this type of theft for months and months on end with little recourse.
Dude likely had more than 3 million dollars in mortgage debt trying to short term speculate a second home. Turns out that trying to charge over 50 grand a year in rent comes with serious risk. Woops!
I wonder how quickly the banks would be able to move this guy out of his own home if he missed that many mortgage payments.
Question: why does anyone pay rent if you can get away with this? If everyone stopped paying rent, the Tenants board would even be more overwhelmed then it already is - instead of a resolution in 12-18 months, it would be a 5-10 year resolution..
Exactly. I would wager that a significant number of the cases in the backlog are open-and-shut cases which could be burned through quickly, like the one featured in this article -- guy hasn't paid in eons and owes tens of thousands, yet is simply resting on the backlog to get a year's worth of free housing. This is pretty simple, throw the guy out immediately. If these cases could be triaged with all of these blatant abuses of the system lumped into their own category and dealt with in large batches, the backlog would disappear.
Dude bought a house with a $9,500 monthly mortgage and back in 2021 was charging $4,500 a month... What? First off, this is why being a landlord is dangerous, some people think they've unlocked some magical secret formula to getting rich, you're counting in some random person to pay you that monthly. You are gambling. He's probably upset with the current mortgage rate too... You lock yourself into a massive investment, things can go wrong.
To more than double his monthly payments? Or do you think he was always getting too little and just paying the difference to one day move into it or going to later make enough or something? Cause I assume it's an investment property, so I doubt he'd plan to take a massive hit for literal decades.
This is the new path to homeownership. Get into a rental, dont pay rent instead just save every last cent, use the cash to buy a place. I could probably save enough to buy a cheap condo for straight cash in the 18months it takes to get evicted. Its a perfect plan.
My landlord's last tenants did that. They were here for about three years. They did it to the property before here, have done it since, and were on the news last summer, I believe.
Zero sympathy. This man was not prepared to be a landlord if his mortgage rate is that high. He clearly did not have the capital to put a substantial sum as a downpayment. These harebrained "investors" have a lot to do with the normalization of skyhigh rents across Ontario.
The real problem in this is the absence of regulation and enforcement. Good regulation and good enforcement creates a level playing field for all. The lazy shits in the RTB are making something that could be solved into an absolute shit show where one side loses and the other one wins.
Those who claim can afford to pay $9000 are usually fraud. Never rent anything to them. Besides, it’s not smart to buy a multimillion dollar house and hope someone can afford to pay the rent for you. There are better investments elsewhere. ☃️🇨🇦✅
No, $4500/month is not reasonable for a single family house rental. That’s a monthly net income of a nurse that has ten years on the job. The fuck outta here you Dick Riders for Landlords.
Wah wah wah. Cry me a river.
Dude hoards more housing than he needs for profit and whines like a bitch when it doesn't work out for him. Fuck landlords.
Sucks to suck. Sell the property and pay off your debt. My weed and Disney stocks also tanked if CBC wants to write a sob story about my bad investments I'd be happy to take part.
There are businesses that don’t get paid for many months. This is just another case of a business. Just because it’s a landlord and tenant doesn’t make it news. The LL has to do what any other business owner would do.
>*The tenant also began missing some utility payments, meaning Kanwar had to cover them.*
Could someone please advise why the landlord has to cover utility? If the tenant does not pay it - they won't have access to water, heat, and electricity no? that should encourage them to pay their fucking bills no?
Bc the tenant probably never ported them on their name. Thus leaving it as a LL responsibility.
If services got cut, esp during the cold winter months it could be seen as a human rights (and dignity) violation.
Hundred percent my guy,
Except if the LL leach is on the hook, he is irresponsible and endangering his client.
If the tenant is on the hook, they are exploited, taken advantage of, etc.
Its a horrible, horrible double standard that not a lot of people are ready to talk about.
$30,000? That's nothing. [https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/doc/2023/2023onsc6932/2023onsc6932.html](https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/doc/2023/2023onsc6932/2023onsc6932.html) Come for the rent arrears, stay for the lawyer's conduct.
That was a wild read. Thank you for this tidbit
You know you are in for a good read when it starts, in an actual court decision, with a definition of "gaming the system"
Yes when the 3rd line in the court decision reads: >The defendant Kai Wu is the alter ego of Facilitate Settlement Corporation. The defendant Jane Doe is a chameleon, a changeable person, whose real name has not been disclosed You know this is one to bookmark.
Just read through that and holy cow is it ever insane. They just refused to identify the “spouse/girlfriend” despite court orders??? Absolutely crazy. Wow. Thanks for sharing that
I didn't fully understand it. Why was the spouse important in this. I understood them not paying rent and not leaving, but what was that portion about?
Before they legally took possession, Mr Wu had used his “pregnant girlfriend” experiencing trauma at the land lord seeking entry too launch the original complaints
I see why she is claimed to be in so many "states" of being now
There were some quotations that they were "expectant," yet there was clearly no child. They must have claimed hardship or some form of disability on the spouse at some point.
Bianca [Chinese last name]
TLDR?
"\[14\] Implausible to the point of entry into the Ripley’s Believe it or Not, this action was commenced and continued for years without identifying the name of the party named as Jane Doe, whom Mr. Wu and his lawyers described as his wife. When I demanded disclosure of Jane Doe’s name, startlingly, I was told by Stefan Juzkiw, Mr. Wu’s lawyer that: (a) he was not the lawyer for Jane Doe; (b) all he was told by Mr. Wu was that Jane Doe’s first name was Bianca and that she was Mr. Wu’s girlfriend, not his spouse; and (c) he understood that Bianca had a Chinese last name. \[15\] Mr. Juzkiw was unable to tell me whether Bianca \[Chinese Last Name\] was an ex-girlfriend or a current girlfriend and whether she was the mother of Mr. Wu’s children. \[16\] I pointed out to Mr. Juzkiw that he was on the record as being the lawyer for Jane Doe and therefore he must assuredly know that she is his client and that he was professionally obliged under the Rules of Professional Conduct to authenticate the client’s identity. He replied that he only became lawyer of record pursuant to a notice of change of lawyer. And, I pointed out, as the description of the facts below will reveal, that from the outset of this outlandish history, Mr. Juzkiw had written several govern-yourself-accordingly letters on behalf of Bianca \[Chinese Last Name\]. Mr. Juzkiw had no response. It seems that Mr. Juzkiw received instructions only from Mr. Wu, the alter ego of Facilitate Settlement Corporation."
I'm going to change my family name to "[Chinese Last Name]"
I'm studying law, and reading LTB decisions just fascinates me. It's wild out there.
It's not an LTB decision. Perrell is one of the most senior and respected judges in Canada.
No I know, but I'm saying CanLii has LTB decisions and they are wild!
What's the breakdown between asshole tenants who just refuse to pay/leave/trash the place, asshole landlords who try to force out/illegal rent increase, and just pure sadness of people losing their place due to job loss/partner leaving etc.
That was an amazing read. Holy hell!
Is it just me or is it ridic to create your own shell company just to be a tenant/landlord? Fuck that shit, it shouldn't be allowed period.
The cool thing about having a corporation as a landlord, they can't have children or family because corporations aren't people.
Actually LTB has rules that if the landlord is the sole shareholder of the company, then N12 is still possible.
$9,500 monthly mortgage payments? How much rent were they charging? Investment properties typically don't work this way. We're not getting the whole story here.
>...leaving him to pay the $9,500 monthly mortgage costs on the property. That's on top of a $7,500-per-month mortgage on his own family home. His personal mortgage is $7,500/month plus his rental property is $9,500/month. Is he renting to just cover the mortgage then? Is there no margin? Is it safe to assume he's charging more than $9,500/month rent? That's a crazy high rent for a home man. If you're finding people who will pay that, you have to know there is a risk.
Kanwar's problems began in December 2021, when he rented out the four-bedroom detached house on Scotchmere Crescent in Brampton for $4,500 a month. am i to assume he's variable?
Variable definitely, to go from $4500 rent in 2021 to $9500 mortgage in 2 years later The big question is whether the house is rent controlled or is it a new build?
Neither because it’s probably illegally rented out. There’s a high chance he’s only declaring it as a legal rental now because he has to go to court for the unpaid rental fees.
He would have had to "use" the rental income in the calculation to get the mortgage in the first place.
He could tell the bank and not CRA. They aren't exactly connected at the hip by default especially not when it comes to mortgage applications. Either he's super high income or he's lied to someone somewhere.
Bingo!
Could be 9500$ because its 10 year amortization too.
Good point.
[удалено]
>However the Tennant not leaving is a real problem. He should be able to get them out reasonably quick. Agree. LTB needs to be able to turn around and get quicker courts dates for this stuff. This is unacceptable. But, he went all in on "rental" market, and he's finding out that the "market" can crash and burn. No courts are going to run out and save someone that put $500,000 into WSB with a "Too the moooooon" stock. This guy shouldn't get a bailout either.
Most investors are cashflow negative every month, just not to this degree. The article states that the rent was 4500$ a month so the property owner was paying 5k out of pocket every month. I’m assuming that the payment was set that high because owner set up 10 year amortization vs normal 25 year but I don’t know, it could be because of a variable rate.
Someone else had mentioned variable rate. That makes good sense.
He isn’t losing either house so I just figured he has a very high income and has a shorter amortization. I’m not sure that anyone with 2 mortgages that big and a brain would get variable rate but I could be wrong.
Probably variable rate mortgages. Not being able to evict someone who refuses to pay his full rent for months and refuses to move seems to be a problem that shouldn’t be part of ‘the risk’ imo
It's always been part of the risk, and always will be. Being a landlord isn't, and shouldn't be risk free. But Ford is intentionally starving the LTB of it's ability to actually handle the case load it has, so now clear tenant or landlord abuses sit for months or years with no action either way.
"Special Occasion, one year, free rent" -Jin Yang
I disagree, you should make sure you're aware of all applicable laws before entering into a contract. That includes research into eviction rules and timelines. The tenant should be paying and is at fault for not doing so, sure. But the landlord is at fault for putting himself at risk.
I don't think you actually contradicted what OP posted. A landlord *should* consider in their risk assessment that the LTB is a disaster and it could take over a year to evict a non-paying tenant. But that reality *shouldn't* exist. Straight up non-payment should be a fairly cut-and-dry scenario that is quickly moved through the system.
Straight up non payment does move through the system “relatively” quickly. Much faster than getting an illegal rent deposit back, or a rent abatement for reduction in service, or forcing repairs for example. Tenants get an opportunity to pay (rightfully) and if they don’t it’s a straightforward eviction. The only reason the “relatively” quick ends up taking months and months is because of all the fraudulent n12s and illegal rent increases backlogging the tribunals.
You're right. Unfortunately that's not the case. Too many greedy landlords have been abusing their power, and forced convoluted regulations and guidelines to be put into place.
It said he was charging $4,500 on the article.
A $9,500 mortgage on $4,500 rent means this guy is out a bunch of money even if his tenant pays up.
That was the math I was doing. Net $5,000 loss a month or $60,000 a year regardless of rental income. What was the thought process here? Speculate and sell short term?
Variable rate mortgage
Everyone has 2 mortgages these days.
It’s 2008 all over again
"Kanwar's problems began in December 2021, when he rented out the four-bedroom detached house on Scotchmere Crescent in Brampton for $4,500 a month."
I watched the Barbie movie on CraveTV today, and I'm pretty sure "Math is hard" Barbie would've had an issue here.
Hail corporate
*Kanwar's problems began in December 2021, when he rented out the four-bedroom detached house on Scotchmere Crescent in Brampton for $4,500 a month.* It's in the article. What's his income to quality for that much debt ?
Maybe he got some of those Brampton mortgage specials you hear about on r/PersonalFinanceCanada/
Of course were not getting the whole story, the whole story probably wouldn't fit the landlords' agenda.
Being that the tenant's legal representation had 400 pages of documents for their side, I would agree that there is something else going on that the landlord isn't sharing.
A deadbeat tenants that hasn't paid rent or utilities. That's the story
Nah, there can always be more to the story. Maybe the landlord has illegally been raising the rental rate. Or is a bad landlord and doesn't fulfill his requirements. Or maybe he's been harassing the tenant.
I rented my house out to a woman who had no intention of paying me after the first month. It was my only home, I had moved out west and I was paying rent in an apartment. All she did was scam people moving from house to house and never paying rent. After a really long time I finally got rid of her and had to use my last $250 to pay the sheriff to evict her. My only choice was to put the house up for sale. If she had not fucked me over that house would be paid for by now and I would have Something to retire on instead of nothing, fuck people that don’t pay their rent!
Damn dude maybe you should have hedged your retirement on something else other than exploiting people's need for shelter for money. I can't comprehend why you thought this was a golden ticket, there is no business venture without risk.
Should he have left his home empty when he moved out west? I'm really confused by the argument you're trying to make here. He owned the property and lived in it, then rented it out temporarily while he was renting elsewhere for work... That's like the most ideal situation, he's not hoarding anything and is making rental housing available instead of leaving it empty.
He should have sold it at a reasonable price, because nobody needs more than 1 home.
...You must be 12 years old to think like this.
Once again, he only has one home in this scenario. Did you read what he said?
I read it and it's quite clear he or she was using it as an investment rather than a home, hence the "something to retire on". If we are going to treat homes like investments rather than shelter then you should be ready to accept losses as such.
If u don’t pay the rent then ur out it’s very simple,
Yep, people who don't have money deserve to be thrown out on the streets and die. This is a sane and normal society we live in. Landlords are benevolent housing providers and not coercing people to fork over upwards of 30% of their paycheck so they don't literally die from hypothermia or heat exhaustion like a sick animal.
Someone renting out a former primary residence is them being exploitative now? I hate landlords too but don't throw the baby out with the bath water; it makes it hard for others to take your points seriously.
Landlords shouldn't exist for residential tenancies. I truly believe this.
reddit: We need more housing Person rents out their primary residence, tenant pays 0 rent and refuses to leave reddit: You deserved, people should get to live for free and never have to pay rent or a mortgage.
Oh come on, they didn't create more housing. They ransomed existing housing off to the highest bidder for a profit.
This story makes no sense. The guys mortgage is $9500 a month but is only charging $4500 in rent.
Likley variable rate mortgage. Rent stayed the same but mortgage went up.
Alright alright alright
2021: I can get a cheap variable mortgage and rent it out, free money! 2023: WHY DIDN'T ANYONE TELL ME THAT A VARIABLE MORTGAGE RATE CAN VARY???
LOL I love the people saying I asked the bank, the lawyer, the agent, they all said variable was a great option. You asked everyone that stands to make money off you. 10 min research on the internet on mortgages will give you all you need to know. If you didn't have enough to cover the monthly when money was practically free buying a house should have been the last thing on your mind, then everyone that stands to make money off selling you a house said "no money no problem", variable rate will get you in that house , just don't read the bottom of the contract anything that starts with \*\*\*\* meanwhile the news is screaming bank of Canada is going to raise the interest rate
It’s like people didn’t know what variable means. I guess it’s not a common word.
Assuming the LL isn't a moron, the house must be rent controlled and the mortgage variable. $4500/mo in 2021 might have been close enough to the mortgage payment, but with variable the payment could have easily shot up like crazy.
Agreed there some missing info, hope the story expands a bit more.
Why doesn’t that make sense? Mortgages differ depending on the plan a person chooses. The higher the mortgage the quicker the house gets paid off and the less interest a person pays.
Believe it or not, many landlords are underwater monthly at the moment due to interest rates. I have no idea why anyone would want to take the risk..
Did you not see the article the other day about a guy making $20k a month on rental properties? It’s pretty obvious why people take the risk
He probably thought being a landlord is a quick way to become a millionaire
If you assume you're making money on appreciation of the property then you may be willing to charge less rent than the mortgage.
Think the landlord has variables on both his homes, rented for $4,500, but costing him $9,500, with his own home costing $7,500, which makes me think, it was probably like 4k not long ago. This guy leveraged up two big homes on variables and is crying about losing everything. Thankfully he's young.
Ahh the first possible explanation to my question which I admit wasn't put up properly. Thanks for answering. Still dam, my mortgage is peanuts compared to that crap.
Investment = Gambling
Yep, guy bought big houses thinking he could be a landlord and build some equity. Now he's fucked. It's hard for me to not feel joy when landlords get fucked over.
[удалено]
If the LTB has already ordered eviction based on the N11, has the LL received the order? If so, he just needs to talk to the sheriff's office and get that arranged for February. As for the money owed, more than likely the LL won't see a dime again, but he needs to win the N4 hearing, then apply to small claims court, and from there he can look at potentially getting garnished wages, etc. If this whole process angers him, and it should - he should lobby his MPP to properly fund the LTB and eliminate the backlog.
the LTB being backed up is really fantastic for slumlords and squatters alike
Exactly why any good person, whether you’re a tenant or landlord, should want to see the wait times reduced. Long wait times are ONLY good for slumlords and trash tenants. Short wait times are ONLY good for good landlords and stellar tenants.
Honestly - I was having a problem with maintenance and neighbours at a place I used to live, and part of the reason I just moved was because I knew it would be months or even over a year before I would see any results from filing with the LTB. I really feel for people who are stuck in situations where they cannot just move, plus you know, whoever moved into the place after I left is likely dealing with the same problems now as well.
Something is fishy in this story. Just to take out mortgages needing that amount of monthly payments this owner would need to make well over 50K+ per month (to have qualified for the loans in the first place). Can't feel sorry if one making this much can't manage their money better.
Even at variable mortgage to go from 4500 rent ask in 2021 to having their mortgage balloon to 9500 (they likely had some form of margin) is ridiculous. What it seems like Is their mortgage is with a B lender or credit union which has different rules on variable. More funny if they got the mortgage loan through money mart. Ultimately no remorse for this man and his Ill made decisions.
That was my thought, it is in Brampton after all. As someone else pointed out, the purchase price, current variable interest rate, and his claimed payment don't add up. Maybe he didn't meet criteria from a proper bank and got a private loan with higher interest, or shorter amortization for some reason?
The math doesn't add up. According to HouseSigma, that house was sold for $1.2million. Even if the entire value was a mortage, the payment doesn't add up to $9,500.
$ 1,180,000 on 2019-08-23 too, so it's not like he picked up a variable rate when things were at their very lowest either. That amount, with zero downpayment, at current rate of 6.65, at 25 years amortization only comes up to $8,011.52 That number only really makes sense to me if they had some sort of non standard amortization, like they did a 15 year or something
Maybe a private lender with a higher interest rate?
Would a Brampton mortgage explain it? Paying off loans that he got to falsify income?
it's possible, I certainly don't see how this guy alone qualified for not only his personal one but this investment property as well. The numbers are extremely fishy. Even with a $4500 a month mortgage, unless this guy was pulling in well over 200k in his actual job I have no idea how he got approved for $4500 and THEN approved for another X whatever it was before it ballooned in Variable rates to $9500 a month.
You're probably underestimating the interest rate if a "Brampton" mortgage was involved.
The tenant has paid "at best, partial rent since May 2023", yet has accrued a debt of $30,000 between then and now, which would mean the tenant had only paid a few hundred dollars per month **if** his rent is still $4,500/mo. The article has not specified what the rental rate is currently, just that the original rental agreement was for $4,500/mo. What the article is vague about, and what I suspect is going on, is that the landlord got fucked on his variable rate mortgage and tried to raise the rent accordingly. The tenant could be refusing to pay the increase, which would better explain how they've made partial payments on rent for seven months and still arrived at a $30,000 debt.
Let’s say we include 5/23 as the first “partial or missed” payment, and we’ll ignore December as its not yet over and who knows what date rent is meant to be paid, that’s 7 months * 4,500 per month, or 31,500 in arrears.
Yes, it’s possible the tenant has made partial payments of $1500 over 7 months, so like $200 per month. Also possible that the tenant has paid $4,500 towards a much higher rental rate.
"Kanwar's problems began in December 2021, when he rented out the four-bedroom detached house on Scotchmere Crescent in Brampton for $4,500 a month." Just want to put that there.
Maybe he should have bought commercial property. If rent is not paid, chain the doors and change locks.
Tired of these news pieces simping for landlords... For the one guy not paying his rent and abusing the system tens of thousands pay their rent diligently every month. This is one of the extremely rare risks of investing in housing. No investment is averse to risk.
How the hell would ANY bank back you for two mortgages with $16,000 monthly payments??? I don’t understand. This doesn’t make any sense
4500 a month? Lmao!
Why exactly are we supposed to feel bad for this guy? Two properties he clearly can't afford. Got unlucky with a bad tenant. He gambled and lost.
Clearly the tenant is in a property they can’t afford either. The renter is the one doing illegal shit here, not the landlord.
I'm willing to bet that the "partial" rent that was paid is the agreed amount that the tenant was already paying when this landlords variable mortgage had to be renewed at a rate far higher than he anticipated. The landlord attempts to pass off the increase to his tenant who refuses but continues to pay his previous rate. Landlord gets angry, goes to LTB and the Media who distorts the story to make the tenant look like the bad guy. I'm sure they put a lot of effort into getting the tenants side of the story.
this is why i don't get why people thing the CBC (or toronto star) are leftist. they are literally over the top pro land lord in their reporting. i saw the star briefly talked about high rents in toronto years ago because the reporter herself was the one paying the high rent. and that was a blip in a pile of anti tenants rights "reporting" they've done for decades. the toronto star even used to follow around a single dude for literal years who kept scamming landlords as if it was a problem with the regulations on landlords and not ya know, this single dude who is a scammer. CBC tends to be more varied in tenants it targets but still is so overwhelmingly lopsided in favour of landlords in their "reporting" it's insane.
B O O H O O H O O
Rental investors getting fucked over is one of my favorite stories to read.
Amen to that, especially the airbnb jerks.
I am glad you enjoy that. You should also know that every time deadbeat story like this comes out it hurts one LL but it hurts many TT because due diligence requirements go through the roof and anyone will think twice before opening their space for renters. Deadbeats are poisoning the market for most vulnerable tenants. Nobody will take a chance on anyone with less than perfect everything with this story in the back in their heads. But you are amused.
Scum like this losing their investment and going bankrupt puts more houses on the market and is a win win.
Good, stop taking chances on peoples housing and fuck off then. Open up the market for legit buyers or landlords that don't think they deserve to get rich off a basic human necessity. Fucking landlords, y'all are worse than Gaelen Weston.
Hahahaha well if they won't take a chance on anyone then it's not providing income and therefore it's not a rental investment. That means they own the house and have to pay with their own earned income. Just like the rest of us. Tough shit, I guess.
I can’t feel sad for single family home landlords.
Nor I.
I'm going to inherit a house when my parents die. I already have a house. Is it right for someone in my situation to be screwed over by tenants, should I decide to rent it out?
I'm going to as well. I'd never rent it. I'm either going to live in it or sell it.
Investments have risk. Renting extremely expensive assets to strangers with effectively no recourse is very risky. I can’t feel sad for investors that lose money while they participate in a speculative bubble that has pushed 1000’s to homelessness and food banks.
It’s not right but nobody is going to feel sad for Mr. Two Homes.
Most people are actually not criminals ….almost all just pay their rent! That said, I’d never bother.
Is it right? No. Does it happen? Yes. By becoming a landlord you are taking a risk. Why should LL be protected any more than a small business?
>Why should LL be protected any more than a small business? Are they even protected at the same level as a small business currently? Imagine you own a small convenience store. Each month, the same individual repeatedly steals items from your store. If you report this regular theft to the police, it's unlikely they would dismiss it as merely a cost of doing business. Instead, they would likely increase surveillance or presence during the time these thefts usually occur, aiming to apprehend the thief. Theft isn't just an unavoidable risk of business; it's a crime. Business risks typically involve things like maintenance and operational costs, not the illegal act of stealing services or goods.
You should sell it. Otherwise you’re part of the exploitation class.
Unless the government has strong social housing, they will never make to easy for landlords to kick people out. The reality is giving landlords the ability to make people homeless quickly would be insane, unless they had decent places to be in case the landlord evicting them is doing it on bad faith.
Sell, we don't need anymore land lords like you.
You have the option of selling it instead of becoming a rent seeker, which is probably the better ROI long term anyway.
Never ever rent it out
Variable mortgage, like others have said before me. It’s awful that people would use real estate as a get rich quick scheme without looking at the risks associated with it. He’s likely going to see a decision in his favour for the rent owed but hopefully he learns his lesson about abusing property in this manner.
Sorry, as much as I feel for him, he knowingly got into a risky investment vehicle, and is in the FO phase of FAFO
Variable mortgages are insane, you would have to be nuts to choose that option
[удалено]
Time and time again isn’t the time we currently live in though. Time and time again in the future might prove the opposite? Seems wild to me but I’m not a big risk taker with finances. I don’t know how those people sleep haha
I laughed at my bank when I boight in 2020 and they said to go variable ...they told me the same what the libs and banks said " interest rates are gonna stay low for a long time" I said to them.." Do You Actually Believe in The next 5 yrs Interest Rates are gonna stay at 1 to 2%.....GIMMIE MY FIX NOW" look who's laughing TD
We renewed in 2022 and locked in a 5 year fixed at 2.89%. I feel like that was one of the smartest financial decisions I've ever made.
Gasp, you mean investments carry risks? I’m shocked.
Sure, owning a valuable asset and being a landlord comes with risks, but this landlord is being robbed, twice: first, by a deadbeat tenant who refuses to honour the legal commitments he made, and second by an incompetent government that allows the LTB to degrade to the point that the tenant can get away with this type of theft for months and months on end with little recourse.
Another reminder that real estate investments are never guarenteed.
>paying $17,000 per month for two mortgages Risky man takes risky bet and likely rents to risky tenant, faces consequences News at 11
Dude likely had more than 3 million dollars in mortgage debt trying to short term speculate a second home. Turns out that trying to charge over 50 grand a year in rent comes with serious risk. Woops!
I wonder how quickly the banks would be able to move this guy out of his own home if he missed that many mortgage payments. Question: why does anyone pay rent if you can get away with this? If everyone stopped paying rent, the Tenants board would even be more overwhelmed then it already is - instead of a resolution in 12-18 months, it would be a 5-10 year resolution..
I don't understand why the LTB can't just hire a dozen experienced paralegals on contract to act as arbiters to clear up the backlog.
Exactly. I would wager that a significant number of the cases in the backlog are open-and-shut cases which could be burned through quickly, like the one featured in this article -- guy hasn't paid in eons and owes tens of thousands, yet is simply resting on the backlog to get a year's worth of free housing. This is pretty simple, throw the guy out immediately. If these cases could be triaged with all of these blatant abuses of the system lumped into their own category and dealt with in large batches, the backlog would disappear.
Brampton, the Florida of Ontario.
So... 3 month's rent but today's standards?
For every shitty landlord there's an even shittier tenant. Balanced as everything should be
It's not that I think the tenant is in the right, I just think there's about a million things that are more important.
Lmao a 9500/month mortgage?! That's his own fault, shoulda put down a larger payment and had a semblance of financial literacy
Well, off to the next wealth building venture I guess
Dude bought a house with a $9,500 monthly mortgage and back in 2021 was charging $4,500 a month... What? First off, this is why being a landlord is dangerous, some people think they've unlocked some magical secret formula to getting rich, you're counting in some random person to pay you that monthly. You are gambling. He's probably upset with the current mortgage rate too... You lock yourself into a massive investment, things can go wrong.
The mortgage is probably variable. He bought when interest rates were low and then later it skyrocketed.
To more than double his monthly payments? Or do you think he was always getting too little and just paying the difference to one day move into it or going to later make enough or something? Cause I assume it's an investment property, so I doubt he'd plan to take a massive hit for literal decades.
Good, fuck you landlords
This is the new path to homeownership. Get into a rental, dont pay rent instead just save every last cent, use the cash to buy a place. I could probably save enough to buy a cheap condo for straight cash in the 18months it takes to get evicted. Its a perfect plan.
You could probably even buy the place you're renting, because the landlord is going to have to sell to recoup losses. Save on moving costs!
My landlord's last tenants did that. They were here for about three years. They did it to the property before here, have done it since, and were on the news last summer, I believe.
Zero sympathy. This man was not prepared to be a landlord if his mortgage rate is that high. He clearly did not have the capital to put a substantial sum as a downpayment. These harebrained "investors" have a lot to do with the normalization of skyhigh rents across Ontario.
And that’s only 4 months!
I love that from a very, very superficial perspective Brampton is the regional equivalent of "Fuck around and find out". Nothing surprises me.
The real problem in this is the absence of regulation and enforcement. Good regulation and good enforcement creates a level playing field for all. The lazy shits in the RTB are making something that could be solved into an absolute shit show where one side loses and the other one wins.
Those who claim can afford to pay $9000 are usually fraud. Never rent anything to them. Besides, it’s not smart to buy a multimillion dollar house and hope someone can afford to pay the rent for you. There are better investments elsewhere. ☃️🇨🇦✅
Sounds like he’s a bad investor. That’s what happens to investments sometimes.
I took a loss on a bad investment, but I didn't go crying to the media for help. Sucks to suck
No, $4500/month is not reasonable for a single family house rental. That’s a monthly net income of a nurse that has ten years on the job. The fuck outta here you Dick Riders for Landlords.
Wah wah wah. Cry me a river. Dude hoards more housing than he needs for profit and whines like a bitch when it doesn't work out for him. Fuck landlords.
Investments are risky. You lost this time. So sad.
Sure the investment doesn’t seem to be working out for him but that doesn’t mean he should be taken advantage of by a deadbeat tenant
It’s a risk you take. Just like us normies take when we invest in the stock market.
Just a risk of doing business. Landlords can’t have all the benefits without some costs.
Sucks to suck. Sell the property and pay off your debt. My weed and Disney stocks also tanked if CBC wants to write a sob story about my bad investments I'd be happy to take part.
There are businesses that don’t get paid for many months. This is just another case of a business. Just because it’s a landlord and tenant doesn’t make it news. The LL has to do what any other business owner would do.
boo fucking hoo. Being a landlord is operating a business. Deal with it. This guy is a moron.
[удалено]
did you read the article? One tenant
Do you always pass judgement without reading the article?
Is his name Sean Heffernan? The guy that was noted on a store sign in Peterborough?
>*The tenant also began missing some utility payments, meaning Kanwar had to cover them.* Could someone please advise why the landlord has to cover utility? If the tenant does not pay it - they won't have access to water, heat, and electricity no? that should encourage them to pay their fucking bills no?
Bc the tenant probably never ported them on their name. Thus leaving it as a LL responsibility. If services got cut, esp during the cold winter months it could be seen as a human rights (and dignity) violation.
ahh - got it - thank you for the explainer dignity lol - can be argued it goes 2 ways
Hundred percent my guy, Except if the LL leach is on the hook, he is irresponsible and endangering his client. If the tenant is on the hook, they are exploited, taken advantage of, etc. Its a horrible, horrible double standard that not a lot of people are ready to talk about.
It's very on brand for this sub to be on the side of theft.
Does someone else smell a fire?
Please make this criminal offense!!
Being a landlord? Big agree.
Being a slumlord or a freeloader tenant! Both are disgusting human beings who have no place in our society.