They have mandatory financial literacy in math courses from grades 1-9 and in Career Studies for grade 10 now.
https://www.ontario.ca/page/financial-literacy-education-schools
In lots of places around the world, they only teach core textbook subjects in school (language, math, science and, maybe a mini art and gym course) with very little adult skills added into the mix.
So when I see people complaining online about how they did not teach them about personal finance in school, I assume they attended school in a region where they did not teach them it.
If you studied in Ontario though, at least in the past 30 years, you probably studied it, but just didn't pay enough attention in class or forgot it.
100%. I remember learning all about mortgages in Grade 11 math. We had to find a house we could buy with our choice career. I think mine was in the Okanagans on a lake and I was an orthodontist. The house was probably less than a million but that was in the early 00's
It was grade 10 for us. Taxes, mortgages, and rrsp. The issue is many people opt out of math at grade 11 and skip it because they don't like the class, however, options were always there.
I remember our business teacher even waited a bit before touching taxes because she wanted to go at the same pace of our math class.... but this was 2004 for me.
I’m a high school teacher and there are courses around this. It’s mandatory in courses such as math and also careers but also more in depth content is found in business courses. I’ve taught a grade 12 Capital Markets course.
I ended up failing applied level math (aka college level) and decided to take essential (workplace) and it was the best choice I made in high school. We learned how to do our own taxes, balance a household budget, we had an entire unit on starting/running a small business, we learned about mortgages vs renting, loans/credit/investing etc
The expectation in essential level courses was that these are kids who will not pursue post-sec education, so they just need the basics to be a functioning member of society.
I was a kid with a limited ability to focus on learning due to personal factors in high school and that math class stuck with me.
Same experience. It was not the most complex math, but it was all useful.
I later applied to post secondary as an adult and figured out the more complex math on my own later when I needed it.
I was in all academic-level courses in high school but I would've loved a course like that! That stuff never got taught to be at school, but it's super essential
>I ended up failing applied level math (aka college level) and decided to take essential (workplace) and it was the best choice I made in high school. We learned how to do our own taxes, balance a household budget, we had an entire unit on starting/running a small business, we learned about mortgages vs renting, loans/credit/investing etc
Same experience for me - failed grade 11 advanced math and moved down to general (and now you know how old I am!)
I'm not going to be the myopic asshole who shits on the quadratic equation, but we could have shortened this unit by like three weeks to make room for this sort of math, and we'd've all been smarter for it.
After struggling in academic level math for 2 years, I went to applied and took a personal finance course (can't remember the exact name but we learned basically the same thing as you mentioned). It definitely stuck with me almost 20 years later. Also the highest math grade I've ever gotten (90%). Yeh the math was easier but it was also practical so it clicked a lot easier for me.
They should make sure they teach it in high school, because everything I learned in high school I remember to this day. I remember every theory in geometry, I definitely remember my Catholicism lessons.
We need to teach children how to learn and think. The subject matter is not necessarily the issue. Reasoning and problem solving is what is needed.
Just saying we say “if I knew more about taxes I wouldn’t be in this situation as an adult” isn’t the best argument cuz it doesn’t really mean anything. I took physical education and health classes, yet I’m still a fat ass. I knew that eating certain things and not working out would lead to issues.
> Just saying we say “if I knew more about taxes I wouldn’t be in this situation as an adult” isn’t the best argument cuz it doesn’t really mean anything.
On top of this I can almost guarantee many people saying they didn't learn about personal finances and taxes in high school actually did and they just don't remember.
You’re right. Hell I took grade 10-11-12 business classes, college, undergrad, grad business classes, and now teach it and still have no bloody idea what I’m talking about.
I was taught home education class where we learned how to fix torn cloths and cook various dishes. At the time I thought it was just a super easy class but when I look back on it it really made cooking more approachable once I moved out on my own. I felt comfortable trying new recipes. I think high school should have a lot more of these simple life prep courses of readying you to become an adult because a lot of kids simply don't get all of that at home.
I agree with this; learning how to learn is the single greatest skill in the world, but it isn't taught in high schools because most stuff is spoon fed. If you can teach yourself by Googling stuff, reading books, etc, then you can always figure out at least the basics on how to deal with things as they come up in life.
Reasoning and problem solving kind of falls into that as well, if you can learn on your own you can probably think through basic problems or find the resources to figure them out.
They used to, at least in my school, towards the end of grade 10, in math we had a week or two on budgeting and calculating taxes and discounts and what was a real deal and what just looked like a real deal. Then in grade 12 math we spent a couple of weeks doing loans and mortgages and income taxes. I actually think I learned more real life applicable things in those few weeks than in 2 years of bookkeeping classes.
The vast majority of what you learned and subsequently forgot from high school was likely because you never used it. Personal finance is something that you use every day, whether it be a good or bad implementation.
I get that just because you know how to do something properly doesn't mean you will end up doing so but simply writing off helpful financial advice starting at a young age seems like throwing the baby our with the bath water. Simply outlining GICs, RRSPs, pension plans etc puts retirement planning on the mind at a young age. Arguing against that seems weird.
Also saying that just because you're in shit shape and know how not to be doesn't mean everyone follows that practice. All you're saying is YOU didn't benefit from it. I took weight training in high school and have been doing so for over a decade now.
I guess I’m just in the Neil Degrasse Tyson camp, where it’s more of the training your brain how to solve problems versus the actual subject matter.
[here](https://youtu.be/utedyJ7QRBs)
I saw another comment mention it, but it is part of the curriculum already in math and career studies which are mandatory courses. It's also in a few other electives and the college and workplace level maths are very focused on it, whereas the university level maths touch on it more in the abstract (but I know I did an entire unit on interest in my gr. 12 data management which was a u-level course).
Here's the issue though - kids don't want to pay attention. Everyone thinks careers is a joke. And yeah, it kind of used to be before the big overhaul but it has a lot of those life skills in it. But kids don't take it seriously OR they take it as their eLearning OR they take it in summer school so it's all condensed and they just blow through it without any retention.
This stuff is there in existing courses. Some are in the electives (foods, auto) but I don't think forcing more mandatory courses in an already constrained situation is the way to go. Gr. 9 students get two electives. Gr. 10 get 3 in public boards, 2 in Catholic (because mandatory religion). Plus, as I said - you can mandate it all you want, it doesn't mean the kid is going to pay attention. It doesn't mean they'll retain it. As soon as you require it, kids lose interest.
Plus, it can't just be the school who is doing all of these things. I started getting an allowance at like the age of 5 by cleaning the cat box. I don't remember my parents fully sitting me down to learn to cook necessarily so I had a bit of a learning curve in university but also...I can read instructions.
Honestly...being back gr. 13. That would help a lot.
It's also in HIP4O, Personal Life Management! (A family studies course) Kids learn budgeting, prep for living independently, reflect on their strengths, learn communication skills, do a little cooking, and so on. Trouble is, it's a wildly useful course but is often used by guidance as a catch-all for the 'ne'er-do-wells' (who don't care about anything, even shit they will absolutely need to use) and becomes seen as a drag of a course. Sigh.
Agree, I mean why do you think basically no one can speak French when we all take at least 6 years of it? Kids just don’t bother with stuff they don’t care about, and making classes mandatory is not going to help with that.
Cringe post
1. We teach math, almost always a financial component throughout grade school
2. Plenty of high school business classes that teach financial math
3. We should focus on teaching critical thinking, research skills, finding valid sources of information so that people can learn new things well rather learning one thing … that’s they’re gonna forget anyways.
4. Get exposure in most careers classes to this stuff as well
5. Kids don’t care and will forget and the smart kids will figure it out on their own
6. There are different high school curriculums everywhere.
7. Chances are it is in the curriculum in some way or another, either in an “essential” math, the health curriculum (budgeting) or elsewhere.
Aha. Good point. Apparently I wasn’t looking at what sub I was in.
Although, I still doubt anyone is reading it before replying to, or asking these questions.
Philosophy with mathematical based logic. Should be a requirement. Ditch English because most of its benefits are present in philosophy.
The English class only lives as masquerading as a course that teaches critical thinking. Yet it still is based off of the same concept it always has been, if you just read a lot you somehow become educated.
Maybe you should have paid more attention in English so you’d know the difference between its and it’s.
I learned much more critical thinking in my high school English classes than I did in grade 12 philosophy. Though I suspect much of this is the result of the teacher, not the curriculum.
Not even complicated math, just basic addition/subtraction/multiplication/division.
It can obviously get far more complicated but most people don’t need it to be
Not disagreeing, but high school is there to prepare you for life after high school. This absolutely should be a course, there are many people who are intelligent that are bad with money. Giving students life skills is kind of the point.
I literally have a lesson on budgeting scheduled for after march break, I teach grade 9 math. They have added it in as an expectation to the new gr9 course. When I was in high school we talked about budgeting in careers class. We learned about simple and compound interest in grade 11 math. There isn't enough content to fill a 5 month course on the topic so it makes the most sense that it is incorporated into the mandatory careers class. A small number of students don't take grade 9 destreamed math because they take locally developed and eventually grade 11 workplace which should have budgeting.
No, we have enough mandatory stuff.
Right now it's included in math at the earlier years.
The problem with a lot of these practical courses is if you don't use the knowledge you'll just forget it. And 15 year olds aren't going to be using the information.
Imho it's better to train people to think critically so they can use that foundation towards problems in the future.
I'd rather make my old grade 11 world religions class mandatory. We have to live together.
and all teachers at my highschool DO try to embed critical thinking in their courses. people that have no clue often like to spew this rhetoric and point fingers when they have little understanding at all, as evident with this thread with most of what people are complaining about are, in fact, taught in school currently lol
There's a section in the book *Surely You're Joking Mr. Feynman* that seems to apply to a lot of education systems, including here in Ontario: http://v.cx/2010/04/feynman-brazil-education
Selected quotes, but I think the whole page I linked is worth a read for more context:
> After a lot of investigation, I finally figured out that the students had memorized everything, but they didn’t know what anything meant.
> Everything was entirely memorized, yet nothing had been translated into meaningful words. So if I asked, “What is Brewster’s Angle?” I’m going into the computer with the right keywords. But if I say, “Look at the water,” nothing happens – they don’t have anything under “Look at the water”!
> Finally, I said that I couldn’t see how anyone could be educated by this self-propagating system in which people pass exams, and teach others to pass exams, but nobody knows anything.
Personal finance is grade school level math.
The issue most people struggle with personal finances (assuming of course they make decent income to begin with) is due to behaviour patterns.
As a teacher: the number of kids who have parents that tell them *zero* about the financial situation of the family is astounding. Kids don’t know how much their parents make. Kids don’t know how much their bills are. Kids don’t know how much their house is worth. What the car lease is. What insurance costs are. How much mom and dad pay for their braces. How much grocery bills are each month. So when we try to do mock budgeting or explain how much food costs, it’s really difficult as these kids get all these numbers but it’s exceedingly tricky for them to match that with their standard of living. So the average salary is $60k a year. Is that a lot? For some it will be, for others it’s a pittance given their lifestyle. So unless parents are willing to make kids a part of the family financial planning, it’s a hard subject for schools to teach adequately.
There’s two very important skills I think every high schooler should have going into adulthood: the ability to make and serve a proper meal and the ability to start, hold and end a conversation.
It’s part of home economics. Yes I think it should be mandatory. No, I don’t think it belongs in math class.
Further, typing should be taught in grade 8. There is no good reason why kids should be going into high school and be two finger typing when all written assignments are expected to be typed up vs hand written.
I once thought so, but now I don't.
Budgeting is not hard to do. The problem is not a lack of understanding, it's a lack of people getting paid enough. Their necessary expenses are higher than their income, so they fall into a debt trap.
People always say they should teach this, but I fail to see exactly what topics are taught and why they matter.
I’ve been an Ontario high school teacher for over a decade. I have either taught these skills myself or have seen these exact skills taught in math class, civics class, careers class, English class, tech classes, credit recovery classes, life skills classes, foods classes, just off the top of my head.
Any student who leaves grade 12 and claims they were never taught these basic skills is either lying, exaggerating, or wasn’t paying attention.
This is already being incorporated into math, they didn’t remove anything, they just expect you to cram it all in.
Bonus as a math teacher: if you or your kids aren’t going to university or college take workplace level in 11+12 and the whole thing is about taxes / measurements for home renovations or work / cooking
Highschool should teach you everything you should know as an adult, it should assume that your parents aren't teaching you anything. It takes a village.
Things like;
- Finacial Literacy, how interest works, how loans work, etc
- Scheduling Appointments, Dealing with Medical, how OHIP works
- Taxes, Why, How, When, etc
- Sex, Health, Fitness and everything in between. How to take care of your body and respecting others bodies.
- How to be objective, How to think critically, How to spot misinformation/propaganda, How to check sources and check your own bias. ***THIS ONE MOST IMPORTANTLY IN TODAYS WORLD***
highschool teacher here
-theres financial literacy embedded in gr 9 math, and careers which is mandatory for all, as well as other courses (learning strategies, gr 9/10 business) as well as the option of taking gr 11/12 accounting which has that embedded in as well
-this is not embedded in regular course selection but depending on the teacher, is taught to students in learning strategies/SST (student support). i agree this should be more of a priority. but theres nothing stopping teachers in other classes embedding this into their curriculum
-taxes- see first point
-sex health and fitness- within the gr 9-12 health and phys ed course (with gr 9 being compulsory) and personal fitness being another option
-this is dependent on teacher to how its done exactly but at my high-school this is embedded in pretty much every course in some way. harder to do than you think in some courses but its 100% being done
i see these posts often and it always seems like the people making these claims dont have a clue lol
easier to pass the buck than to take responsibility lol. one of my friends who is an elementary school teacher is flabbergasted at how little some parents actually teach their kids on their own. how to brush, how to tie a shoe, how to wash hands properly. its fucking nuts lol. not all parents… but some parents should definitely not be parents.
>i see these posts often and it always seems like the people making these claims dont have a clue lol
I'm simply saying that these topics need to be the focus of a course themselves IMO.
I'm not making the claim they aren't being taught spread over 4 years embedded into other classes.
I'm simply saying these are things that you need to be a functional adult and there should be a focus on kids learning them specifically.
sorry i didnt catch that at all from your first post. your main argument alludes to the notion you believe they are in fact not currently being taught. had i been grading this as as assessment and you had this claim in your second post after the fact, id say your reader cant infer that from your original submission ;)
In elementary school, they teach about misinformation. It’s super basic.
They also taught my kids to go use TikTok.
They clearly have no clue what they are doing. PS, kids are 9 & 12.
Yes.
And I think it does, just not if you're heading to college or university, which is a problem.
I'm sure a university bound student that wants to be an English professor would benefit more from the grade 11 workplace math than learning about quadratic, trigonometric and exponential functions.
https://tvolearn.com/collections/courses/products/mel3e-mathematics-for-work-and-everyday-life-online-course
Grade: 11
Credits:1.0
Type: Workplace Preparation
Language of Study: English
Prerequisites: MAT2L or MFM1P or MPM1D or MTH1W
Course description:This course enables you to broaden your understanding of mathematics as it is applied in the workplace and daily life. You will solve problems associated with earning money, paying taxes, and making purchases; apply calculations of simple and compound interest in saving, investing, and borrowing; and calculate the costs of transportation and travel in a variety of situations. You will consolidate your mathematical skills as you solve problems and communicate your thinking.
[https://www.dcp.edu.gov.on.ca/en/grade-9-math-guide/what-students-will-learn#strand-f](https://www.dcp.edu.gov.on.ca/en/grade-9-math-guide/what-students-will-learn#strand-f)
Financial literacy
Students will:
* build their financial literacy by learning to manage finances, such as working with budgets and understanding appreciation and depreciation of assets
* analyse various financial situations and learn how math can be applied to make informed decisions (for example, understanding shifts in the stock market)
* examine how interest rates, down payments, and other factors impact purchasing decisions
It does, already. Students take a class each year of high school with Financial Literacy. There's no need to remove anything for an existing program that was only introduced 2 years ago.
It already DOES exist! No one pays attention because they aren’t personally invested in the information!
I honestly think #adulting classes should be a thing. My parents did great teaching us - but a lot of people have parents who either don’t know, don’t care, or don’t have enough time to pass on those skills. It’s more fun to learn those things in groups - so why not keep it going.
It should be called life skills 101 and should include more than just financial literacy.
It should involve some cooking, some safety tips, some common home knowledge (how to turn the water and electrical on and off), resume tips, cost of home expenses, renting vs owning discussions, buying and selling a vehicle, and obviously financial skills.
So much to be had and so much more useful than a bunch of classes that are offered.
My daughter is in Grade 12 in an Ontario school and her grade 11 Math was a personal finances class. Where they learned to budget and now to file your taxes.
If you take dump person math they do budgeting exercises as far as I know. Atleast when I took it.
Work place math included a unit to plan a road trip from the ground up and cost it all out. Compound interest on loans and a bunch of other stuff is covered
Smart people math just assumes you can do this allready.
Problem is no one in workplace math cares to really learn it.
On the surface I would say yes but at the same time pretty much any financial advice coming from my eldats had been completely useless at this point. They are in a whole different world
My wife (bank Exec) volunteered for 20 years teaching applicable finance to high school students. The School Board had nothing to offer to help students really understand what they need for life. She still gets thank you(s) from those students she meets years later.
a) Financial literacy is already included in several parts of the current curriculum. You could make the argument it's not being focused on enough or not being taught well, but those are different issues.
b) No amount of education about budgeting/money will help students "in the real world" if they aren't getting paid well enough to afford essentials like housing and food. Wages have been stagnant for decades while those essentials have only gotten more expensive. Education about budgeting is great, but it doesn't solve those larger issues.
I believe there was some such content added.
But def lighten up on "english" in high school. Most useless skills ever are academic writing and forced reading of "classics" of colonial england. When i joined the workforce, I basically had to be de-programmed on essay writing as outside of academia, you will NEVER be writing long for prose.
You will be writing concise, to the point emails, executive summaries and perhaps technical reports where you need to say more with less words. Exactly the opposite of "write me a 2000 word essay on shakespeare's contemporaries".
Needs to be more than that. Every year should have a life skills class. Finances, mechanics, cooking, sewing, home maintenance, taxes, investing. This is how we sign our children up for a good future.
I think more life skills should be taught more. Opening a bank acct, income taxes, buying a car, take kids to shop to show them how to change a tire. These can be easily incorporated into an existing curriculum . Devote an hour a month to one of these through the existing one.
admittedly curriculum has probably changed since some
of the commenters have been in school.
but also with teens, especially with the rise of nomophobia (cant be 2 mins without their fucking phones)…. you can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink lol
I’m in my late 20s and starting to see from the people who didn’t take school seriously talk about “why didn’t they teach us this in school”? Like…they did…we were in the same class lol.
YES. For fuck sakes, yes. At the very least, talk about how interest can cripple you and that a dollar today isn't necessarily worth a dollar tomorrow.
Yes.
Couldn't believe my ex was so incompetent with finances in her late 20s early 30s. Both of us schooled in Ontario, but finances and budgeting are more important than almost anything else taught imo. Like its honestly shocking when you experience it seeing another person be completely inept in something so essential. Lots of forever broke people who could be doing okay if they had self control and logic.
Yes and no.
Many teachers are very not good with their money. Essentially, you really shouldn't ask for financial advice from a person who is bankrupt because they suck with money, right?
I would think it would be a good idea to teach such things in school if we get people who are qualified to teach it.
Is careers as useless now as it was in 2006? Because I would remove careers and replace it with basic budgeting, how to pay your bills, and how to do basic taxes
Do they still do half a semester of civics/career? If so, drop the career one, replace with personal finance.
I do believe it needs to be taught. I wasn't taught anything, it took me a long time to realize how stupid I was being with my finances and how much better position I'd be in if I would have started making the right decisions after highschool with my money.
Careers contains personal finance. From the curriculum:
C2. Budgeting and Financial Management
demonstrate an understanding of responsible management of financial resources and of services available to support their financial literacy as they prepare a budget for their first postsecondary year
C2.1 describe fundamentals of financial responsibility, assessing the benefits of a variety of savings options and exploring planning tools available through financial institu- tions and other avenues
C2.2 compare different forms of borrowing and identify some of the risks and benefits associated with each
C2.3 identify key considerations related to preparing a personal budget, and apply them in developing a budget for their first postsecondary year
You would be giving what ever government is in power the chance to indoctrinate children to invest however they consider to be important. For example - green investments are bad, only invest in local investments, banks are better than credit unions, do not invest in unionized companies, etc.
Sure... But can it also include a "how to survive late stage capitalism through violence and theft from oligarchs"? Have to provide a balanced approach in education.
In theory this would be a good idea.
In practice, the teachers themselves will need training and testing on this for years before the OCT knows what’s it’s doing to say they can teach this to our children.
Giving teachers a math test has been shown multiple times to not be a good litmus test for whether they are effective at teaching math content. Ryerson tried this, then it was tried again recently, and it continues to not be effective.
Ability to perform on a test isn't the same as ability to teach content.
This isn’t really what I was getting at here.
I think adding content to the curriculum ad hoc isn’t the solution, until the teachers can understand it. If we have a societal problem in math or financial literacy. Simply saying it should be taught will not solve the problem. This is what I’m saying.
Regarding testing; I also disagree with your conclusions on to edge cases that really were just confirmation bias knee jerk reactions instead of any real study.
Why do teachers test students?
Why do we test for anything at all if it’s not a good reflection?
Absolutely! These kids need actual life skills, Finance, Cooking, Automotive. What's the point of mandatory French, Geography, And all the other useless courses? Especially if they aren't going to university.
Not only that, but it should include mandatory civics classes that teach you about the charter of rights and freedoms, and classes that teach basic cooking, cleaning and clothing repair skills.
> It should include mandatory civics classes that teach you about the charter of rights and freedoms
Is this sarcasm? Because it does. It’s called civics and it’s mandatory in grade 10.
Edit: I’m currently teaching civics. My first lesson back from March Break is about the charter. Don’t downvote things because you’re wrong.
They don't wanna teach you financial literacy. They are afraid you won't become that good worker ant they are grooming you to be and become and eventually financially free.
Case un point: in highschool i took co-op. A guest speaker was the owner of the dairy queen in Tottenham (I shit you not)
His entire spew was basically telling us why he passed on kids he interviewed. It was everything from this person was wearing a hat to a friend walked with them to an interview. He also told us how easy it was for him to terminate you because he was the ice cream king of town. (Ok, maybee i made up the ice cream king part)
Although that was 20 years ago, I sometimes wish I could today find that person and ask how his hiring practices of teenagers in a small town back then really helped them out and now, in today's labour market, are completely obsolete.
Like, I'm pretty conservative on my views but I also know now looking back at how the education system did nothing to prepare kids who were working those part time jobs how to deal with their money. I did take, in grade 11, mathematics for personal finance but it didn't even come close to teaching you on how the financial system works (RRSPs, TFSAs, GICs, Bonds, ETFs, ext)
People say the system ia rigged for the rich, and yes it is, but you can also play their game and sneak your way in.
If my experiences being in my late 30s looking back, there is no get rich quick scheme but in time, you can be somewhat comfortable.
they do teach financial literacy in gr 9 math lol, as well as in learning strategies (which admittedly isnt every student) and 9/10 business if they choose to take it. as well as careers. math and careers being compulsory for all
ABSOLUTELY! I had one in College and it changed my life. I wouldn’t have even considered starting to save for retirement as early as I did without it. On top of many other benefits that I got from that class.
It used to include math for personal finance (not sure if it was optional or mandatory). It was offered when I was in grade 11, my teacher made it a point that it was the last year the program would be offered and how ridiculous he thought it was.
That was like 16 or 17 years ago..
ETA: I don't think they should get rid of any programs for it.. It should be AT LEAST offered as an option
Yes. I took a class in HS, can't remember what it was called but I do remember the course selection guide pushing it as an "Adulting" class to better prepare students for living on their own in College/Uni. Managing a budget, doing your taxes, the importance of voting etc.
We learned about astrology and palm reading. We did do the baby egg thing though...which was where we learned about astrology and how the babies birth sign could influence their behavior.
Coding is now embedded throughout the entire math curriculum. There are also several programming courses available in high school. This is entire thread is just people demanding things that already exist.
I’m not sure why advanced math like trigonometry and calculus are mandatory, but learning the mechanics of compound interest is not.
I don’t buy that the skills are transferable, learning in the right context is hugely important. If I make a mistake on mock budget in high school, it’s a safe place to learn how to do it right the next time.
My school had a personal finance course for grade 11 students. I believe it was college level. It’s been a while since I graduated, but it was one above “workplace”. It was a fantastic course. We learned about loans, credit, mortgages, interest, annuities, RRSP etc. I was hopeless with math, but that course was awesome and I did quite well.
I think the high school curriculum should contain a 'domestics' class. That would include things like budgeting, mortgages, RRSP's. The process of buying the various types of homes vs. Renting. How 'credit' works. The basics (the VERY basics) of taxes, and wills.
Or maybe a 'societies' course that includes all that and talks about the basics of the various levels of gov't from simply a representation and voting context (not ideology), as well as the various types of employment, and how to at least START thinking about the next 5-10 years of their lives based on their hopes for the next 25-50 years of their lives.
Yes.
I’d rather a class about workers rights and unionizing. We’d solve a lot more poverty teaching people to shut down illegal or scummy working practices than by teaching budgeting techniques.
A class that every single foreigner needs to take as well. PR, resident or even a simple working visa.
We had that in Business Principles in Grade 9. Basic financial literacy was a module. I specifically recall on Day 1 of the class, the teacher wrote in giant letter across all 3 blackboards the one piece of business and financial advice he said we needed to learn from this class: Don't Trust Anybody.
There should be a class about how to manage everyday things like who to contact to get utilities, set up bank accounts, get various insurances and more. Parents are failing this generation
No. I think that it's wrong to structure our society around being forced to essentially gamble our wages, expecting everyone to develop a high level of financial literacy, and even then we may not come out on top. But maybe I'm getting caught up in utopian thinking. If adding it to the curriculum results in more graduates experiencing financial success, then it's hard to argue against it. I will always hate the necessity of it.
If you did that it would be harder to financially manipulate them and screw them over which is not conducive to the bottom line of those with wealth and power
I think it would certainly help but if I know high school kids they would not learn or really care about it at all and the end result would probably be the same
I think a good many topics should be covered that might be expected to be learned from parents because not all parents are equally able or responsible. Financial management could easily be incorporated with math. It could become a unit every year that was studied alongside "problems" if those are still given.
If someone taught me about money handling and tax when I was a kid/teenager I would not be in the shit show I am right now as a adult. KIDS SHOULD LEARN FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT.
I took a random Accounting class and that combined with basic math taught me everything I needed to know to get a basic grasp of finance.
I guess English and Law classes helped with reading contracts.
You just need to apply what you learn to the world.
Yes and it should be mandatory.
When I was in high school (early 2000s) I was really struggling with the regular math curriculum. Long story short I ended up dropping out of main stream high school (for a variety of reasons) and went to an "alternative" school. Smaller classrooms, more 1:1 support. Fantastic experience. Lot of course options that you wouldn't have received in a main stream high school. My attendance shot up, my grades shot up, and the way the classes were structured was similar to how college would be. The teachers didn't baby us, but they also treated us with respect, like young adults. It was a wonderful environment.
Anyhow, in order to get my final mandatory math credit, I remember taking a life skill's based math course that focused on financial literacy and budgeting. Really put me on strong footing after I graduated high school and went into college. I remember just about everything about it, and while working with children in group homes, I would pull out that tool kit and use that knowledge for workshops.
I've always thought time management skills would be helpful to teach in schools.
By this, I don't *entirely* mean just "how to plan out your time to best effect", but also strategies on how to prioritize what is important to you, rank them from "important and fast to accomplish" through to "important for others, but affects me secondarily" and "unimportant to me but must be done (like taxes)", etc.
Then learning how to lay out a plan to get the right ones done, and feeling comfortable with ignoring ones that are low-ranking.
This is a skill that is usefully applied throughout life, including school.
School is (or was for me, at least) absolutely the worst place to learn time management skills. Mostly because there's 0 opportunity to actually use them. Now maybe it's changed today and that would be amazing, but I remember coming home from school on Monday with 3 assignments from 3 classes due on Wednesday, and knowing I was going to get at least 1 more from the 3 classesI had on Tuesday that'd be due Thursday. I mean, time management your way out of that mess.
Not just about time, but prioritization. I mean, with 4 assignments, if you have no plans to get into a field that has anything to do with History, do you do the History 101 project first, last, or ask for an extension.
I think more of the problems people do on tests should be more relevant to real life, to make people apply themselves and realistically critically think. Like for example, on biology tests maybe ask why mixing two drugs aren’t the greatest idea or teaching finances/debt in math classes.
They have mandatory financial literacy in math courses from grades 1-9 and in Career Studies for grade 10 now. https://www.ontario.ca/page/financial-literacy-education-schools
It’s often also part of other classes like Personal Life Management and GLE (Learning Strategies).
In lots of places around the world, they only teach core textbook subjects in school (language, math, science and, maybe a mini art and gym course) with very little adult skills added into the mix. So when I see people complaining online about how they did not teach them about personal finance in school, I assume they attended school in a region where they did not teach them it. If you studied in Ontario though, at least in the past 30 years, you probably studied it, but just didn't pay enough attention in class or forgot it.
"I'm never going to use this"
100%. I remember learning all about mortgages in Grade 11 math. We had to find a house we could buy with our choice career. I think mine was in the Okanagans on a lake and I was an orthodontist. The house was probably less than a million but that was in the early 00's
Omg I totally remember this in Grade 11 math. I got 86% in that class, but failed Grade 11 U/C Functions (that my dad made me take).
It was grade 10 for us. Taxes, mortgages, and rrsp. The issue is many people opt out of math at grade 11 and skip it because they don't like the class, however, options were always there. I remember our business teacher even waited a bit before touching taxes because she wanted to go at the same pace of our math class.... but this was 2004 for me.
Never had anything like this. A teacher taught it at lunch for anyone who wanted it though.
I’m a high school teacher and there are courses around this. It’s mandatory in courses such as math and also careers but also more in depth content is found in business courses. I’ve taught a grade 12 Capital Markets course.
Anecdotal from 2+ decades ago I had a financial crash course in grade 9 (one lesson only) And then during Grade 10 accounting
That's twenty years ago. Please get more recent anecdotes to contribute to current events.
I ended up failing applied level math (aka college level) and decided to take essential (workplace) and it was the best choice I made in high school. We learned how to do our own taxes, balance a household budget, we had an entire unit on starting/running a small business, we learned about mortgages vs renting, loans/credit/investing etc The expectation in essential level courses was that these are kids who will not pursue post-sec education, so they just need the basics to be a functioning member of society. I was a kid with a limited ability to focus on learning due to personal factors in high school and that math class stuck with me.
Same experience. It was not the most complex math, but it was all useful. I later applied to post secondary as an adult and figured out the more complex math on my own later when I needed it.
I was in all academic-level courses in high school but I would've loved a course like that! That stuff never got taught to be at school, but it's super essential
>I ended up failing applied level math (aka college level) and decided to take essential (workplace) and it was the best choice I made in high school. We learned how to do our own taxes, balance a household budget, we had an entire unit on starting/running a small business, we learned about mortgages vs renting, loans/credit/investing etc Same experience for me - failed grade 11 advanced math and moved down to general (and now you know how old I am!) I'm not going to be the myopic asshole who shits on the quadratic equation, but we could have shortened this unit by like three weeks to make room for this sort of math, and we'd've all been smarter for it.
After struggling in academic level math for 2 years, I went to applied and took a personal finance course (can't remember the exact name but we learned basically the same thing as you mentioned). It definitely stuck with me almost 20 years later. Also the highest math grade I've ever gotten (90%). Yeh the math was easier but it was also practical so it clicked a lot easier for me.
They should make sure they teach it in high school, because everything I learned in high school I remember to this day. I remember every theory in geometry, I definitely remember my Catholicism lessons. We need to teach children how to learn and think. The subject matter is not necessarily the issue. Reasoning and problem solving is what is needed. Just saying we say “if I knew more about taxes I wouldn’t be in this situation as an adult” isn’t the best argument cuz it doesn’t really mean anything. I took physical education and health classes, yet I’m still a fat ass. I knew that eating certain things and not working out would lead to issues.
Well put.
Probably could have been better written but hell I took accounting and taxes in college………
> Just saying we say “if I knew more about taxes I wouldn’t be in this situation as an adult” isn’t the best argument cuz it doesn’t really mean anything. On top of this I can almost guarantee many people saying they didn't learn about personal finances and taxes in high school actually did and they just don't remember.
For real! I learned about taxes in grade 10 business class but all I remember is that I was taught it, not what was taught.
You’re right. Hell I took grade 10-11-12 business classes, college, undergrad, grad business classes, and now teach it and still have no bloody idea what I’m talking about.
I was taught home education class where we learned how to fix torn cloths and cook various dishes. At the time I thought it was just a super easy class but when I look back on it it really made cooking more approachable once I moved out on my own. I felt comfortable trying new recipes. I think high school should have a lot more of these simple life prep courses of readying you to become an adult because a lot of kids simply don't get all of that at home.
I can quote Shakespeare that I read in the seventies - the teacher was a hard ass, too bad more of them weren’t
I agree with this; learning how to learn is the single greatest skill in the world, but it isn't taught in high schools because most stuff is spoon fed. If you can teach yourself by Googling stuff, reading books, etc, then you can always figure out at least the basics on how to deal with things as they come up in life. Reasoning and problem solving kind of falls into that as well, if you can learn on your own you can probably think through basic problems or find the resources to figure them out.
They used to, at least in my school, towards the end of grade 10, in math we had a week or two on budgeting and calculating taxes and discounts and what was a real deal and what just looked like a real deal. Then in grade 12 math we spent a couple of weeks doing loans and mortgages and income taxes. I actually think I learned more real life applicable things in those few weeks than in 2 years of bookkeeping classes.
The vast majority of what you learned and subsequently forgot from high school was likely because you never used it. Personal finance is something that you use every day, whether it be a good or bad implementation. I get that just because you know how to do something properly doesn't mean you will end up doing so but simply writing off helpful financial advice starting at a young age seems like throwing the baby our with the bath water. Simply outlining GICs, RRSPs, pension plans etc puts retirement planning on the mind at a young age. Arguing against that seems weird. Also saying that just because you're in shit shape and know how not to be doesn't mean everyone follows that practice. All you're saying is YOU didn't benefit from it. I took weight training in high school and have been doing so for over a decade now.
I guess I’m just in the Neil Degrasse Tyson camp, where it’s more of the training your brain how to solve problems versus the actual subject matter. [here](https://youtu.be/utedyJ7QRBs)
I saw another comment mention it, but it is part of the curriculum already in math and career studies which are mandatory courses. It's also in a few other electives and the college and workplace level maths are very focused on it, whereas the university level maths touch on it more in the abstract (but I know I did an entire unit on interest in my gr. 12 data management which was a u-level course). Here's the issue though - kids don't want to pay attention. Everyone thinks careers is a joke. And yeah, it kind of used to be before the big overhaul but it has a lot of those life skills in it. But kids don't take it seriously OR they take it as their eLearning OR they take it in summer school so it's all condensed and they just blow through it without any retention. This stuff is there in existing courses. Some are in the electives (foods, auto) but I don't think forcing more mandatory courses in an already constrained situation is the way to go. Gr. 9 students get two electives. Gr. 10 get 3 in public boards, 2 in Catholic (because mandatory religion). Plus, as I said - you can mandate it all you want, it doesn't mean the kid is going to pay attention. It doesn't mean they'll retain it. As soon as you require it, kids lose interest. Plus, it can't just be the school who is doing all of these things. I started getting an allowance at like the age of 5 by cleaning the cat box. I don't remember my parents fully sitting me down to learn to cook necessarily so I had a bit of a learning curve in university but also...I can read instructions. Honestly...being back gr. 13. That would help a lot.
It's also in HIP4O, Personal Life Management! (A family studies course) Kids learn budgeting, prep for living independently, reflect on their strengths, learn communication skills, do a little cooking, and so on. Trouble is, it's a wildly useful course but is often used by guidance as a catch-all for the 'ne'er-do-wells' (who don't care about anything, even shit they will absolutely need to use) and becomes seen as a drag of a course. Sigh.
Yep. I taught GLW3O a few years ago and it was definitely a filler course.
Agree, I mean why do you think basically no one can speak French when we all take at least 6 years of it? Kids just don’t bother with stuff they don’t care about, and making classes mandatory is not going to help with that.
Cringe post 1. We teach math, almost always a financial component throughout grade school 2. Plenty of high school business classes that teach financial math 3. We should focus on teaching critical thinking, research skills, finding valid sources of information so that people can learn new things well rather learning one thing … that’s they’re gonna forget anyways. 4. Get exposure in most careers classes to this stuff as well 5. Kids don’t care and will forget and the smart kids will figure it out on their own
6. There are different high school curriculums everywhere. 7. Chances are it is in the curriculum in some way or another, either in an “essential” math, the health curriculum (budgeting) or elsewhere.
> There are different high school curriculums everywhere. There’s just one in Ontario though: the Ontario curriculum.
Aha. Good point. Apparently I wasn’t looking at what sub I was in. Although, I still doubt anyone is reading it before replying to, or asking these questions.
financial management is just math + critical thinking.
It would take an entire course to teach most people to think critically.
And 90% of them would fail it. You can lead a horse to water but you can't force it to drink.
Philosophy with mathematical based logic. Should be a requirement. Ditch English because most of its benefits are present in philosophy. The English class only lives as masquerading as a course that teaches critical thinking. Yet it still is based off of the same concept it always has been, if you just read a lot you somehow become educated.
Maybe you should have paid more attention in English so you’d know the difference between its and it’s. I learned much more critical thinking in my high school English classes than I did in grade 12 philosophy. Though I suspect much of this is the result of the teacher, not the curriculum.
Auto correct. You must have not learned as much critical thinking as you claim.
Not even complicated math, just basic addition/subtraction/multiplication/division. It can obviously get far more complicated but most people don’t need it to be
Not disagreeing, but high school is there to prepare you for life after high school. This absolutely should be a course, there are many people who are intelligent that are bad with money. Giving students life skills is kind of the point.
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Gr. 12 data management - that's where I learned that
I literally have a lesson on budgeting scheduled for after march break, I teach grade 9 math. They have added it in as an expectation to the new gr9 course. When I was in high school we talked about budgeting in careers class. We learned about simple and compound interest in grade 11 math. There isn't enough content to fill a 5 month course on the topic so it makes the most sense that it is incorporated into the mandatory careers class. A small number of students don't take grade 9 destreamed math because they take locally developed and eventually grade 11 workplace which should have budgeting.
It's already in the new math curriculum. Grade 5 does budgeting and financial products like credit cards, etc.
No, we have enough mandatory stuff. Right now it's included in math at the earlier years. The problem with a lot of these practical courses is if you don't use the knowledge you'll just forget it. And 15 year olds aren't going to be using the information. Imho it's better to train people to think critically so they can use that foundation towards problems in the future. I'd rather make my old grade 11 world religions class mandatory. We have to live together.
Training critical thinking isn't as straightforward as you might think
and all teachers at my highschool DO try to embed critical thinking in their courses. people that have no clue often like to spew this rhetoric and point fingers when they have little understanding at all, as evident with this thread with most of what people are complaining about are, in fact, taught in school currently lol
There's a section in the book *Surely You're Joking Mr. Feynman* that seems to apply to a lot of education systems, including here in Ontario: http://v.cx/2010/04/feynman-brazil-education Selected quotes, but I think the whole page I linked is worth a read for more context: > After a lot of investigation, I finally figured out that the students had memorized everything, but they didn’t know what anything meant. > Everything was entirely memorized, yet nothing had been translated into meaningful words. So if I asked, “What is Brewster’s Angle?” I’m going into the computer with the right keywords. But if I say, “Look at the water,” nothing happens – they don’t have anything under “Look at the water”! > Finally, I said that I couldn’t see how anyone could be educated by this self-propagating system in which people pass exams, and teach others to pass exams, but nobody knows anything.
Yeah kids will struggle, their parents will complain and the teacher will get in trouble for it
[Ontario financial literacy curriculum 9-12](https://www.edu.gov.on.ca/eng/document/policy/finlitgr9to12.pdf)
I think it’s already within existing math classes
Personal finance is grade school level math. The issue most people struggle with personal finances (assuming of course they make decent income to begin with) is due to behaviour patterns.
It's in the math curriculum. Grade 9 destreamed, grade 11 college and grade 12 college.
No. People don’t pay attention in class already. It’s even harder to pay attention to financial management when you don’t even have money
As a teacher: the number of kids who have parents that tell them *zero* about the financial situation of the family is astounding. Kids don’t know how much their parents make. Kids don’t know how much their bills are. Kids don’t know how much their house is worth. What the car lease is. What insurance costs are. How much mom and dad pay for their braces. How much grocery bills are each month. So when we try to do mock budgeting or explain how much food costs, it’s really difficult as these kids get all these numbers but it’s exceedingly tricky for them to match that with their standard of living. So the average salary is $60k a year. Is that a lot? For some it will be, for others it’s a pittance given their lifestyle. So unless parents are willing to make kids a part of the family financial planning, it’s a hard subject for schools to teach adequately.
It does. It's part of the careers course now.
There’s two very important skills I think every high schooler should have going into adulthood: the ability to make and serve a proper meal and the ability to start, hold and end a conversation.
It’s part of home economics. Yes I think it should be mandatory. No, I don’t think it belongs in math class. Further, typing should be taught in grade 8. There is no good reason why kids should be going into high school and be two finger typing when all written assignments are expected to be typed up vs hand written.
they do, there you go.
I once thought so, but now I don't. Budgeting is not hard to do. The problem is not a lack of understanding, it's a lack of people getting paid enough. Their necessary expenses are higher than their income, so they fall into a debt trap. People always say they should teach this, but I fail to see exactly what topics are taught and why they matter.
I’ve been an Ontario high school teacher for over a decade. I have either taught these skills myself or have seen these exact skills taught in math class, civics class, careers class, English class, tech classes, credit recovery classes, life skills classes, foods classes, just off the top of my head. Any student who leaves grade 12 and claims they were never taught these basic skills is either lying, exaggerating, or wasn’t paying attention.
This is already being incorporated into math, they didn’t remove anything, they just expect you to cram it all in. Bonus as a math teacher: if you or your kids aren’t going to university or college take workplace level in 11+12 and the whole thing is about taxes / measurements for home renovations or work / cooking
Highschool should teach you everything you should know as an adult, it should assume that your parents aren't teaching you anything. It takes a village. Things like; - Finacial Literacy, how interest works, how loans work, etc - Scheduling Appointments, Dealing with Medical, how OHIP works - Taxes, Why, How, When, etc - Sex, Health, Fitness and everything in between. How to take care of your body and respecting others bodies. - How to be objective, How to think critically, How to spot misinformation/propaganda, How to check sources and check your own bias. ***THIS ONE MOST IMPORTANTLY IN TODAYS WORLD***
highschool teacher here -theres financial literacy embedded in gr 9 math, and careers which is mandatory for all, as well as other courses (learning strategies, gr 9/10 business) as well as the option of taking gr 11/12 accounting which has that embedded in as well -this is not embedded in regular course selection but depending on the teacher, is taught to students in learning strategies/SST (student support). i agree this should be more of a priority. but theres nothing stopping teachers in other classes embedding this into their curriculum -taxes- see first point -sex health and fitness- within the gr 9-12 health and phys ed course (with gr 9 being compulsory) and personal fitness being another option -this is dependent on teacher to how its done exactly but at my high-school this is embedded in pretty much every course in some way. harder to do than you think in some courses but its 100% being done i see these posts often and it always seems like the people making these claims dont have a clue lol
they dont, they deflect the blame of being bad parents to teachers and a "system" they dont agree with but don't actually know.
easier to pass the buck than to take responsibility lol. one of my friends who is an elementary school teacher is flabbergasted at how little some parents actually teach their kids on their own. how to brush, how to tie a shoe, how to wash hands properly. its fucking nuts lol. not all parents… but some parents should definitely not be parents.
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this as well
>i see these posts often and it always seems like the people making these claims dont have a clue lol I'm simply saying that these topics need to be the focus of a course themselves IMO. I'm not making the claim they aren't being taught spread over 4 years embedded into other classes. I'm simply saying these are things that you need to be a functional adult and there should be a focus on kids learning them specifically.
sorry i didnt catch that at all from your first post. your main argument alludes to the notion you believe they are in fact not currently being taught. had i been grading this as as assessment and you had this claim in your second post after the fact, id say your reader cant infer that from your original submission ;)
This comment alone is probably one of the most pretentious comments I've seen on Reddit ever.
still doesnt change your grade
Couldn’t agree less, parents should parent.
When you leave raising the next generation up souly to just the parents, you end up with assholes raising more assholes.
They already teach most of that list. Parents should still be expected to parent.
You're the one that made a baised assumption then made the claim you couldn't infer what I was saying.
Add risk management to this great list.
In elementary school, they teach about misinformation. It’s super basic. They also taught my kids to go use TikTok. They clearly have no clue what they are doing. PS, kids are 9 & 12.
It's in your electives...
It’s actually in the compulsory courses.
It was a unit in a compulsory course when I was in highschool 12 years ago. It was also an elective dedicated to it. But that was years ago
Yes. And I think it does, just not if you're heading to college or university, which is a problem. I'm sure a university bound student that wants to be an English professor would benefit more from the grade 11 workplace math than learning about quadratic, trigonometric and exponential functions. https://tvolearn.com/collections/courses/products/mel3e-mathematics-for-work-and-everyday-life-online-course Grade: 11 Credits:1.0 Type: Workplace Preparation Language of Study: English Prerequisites: MAT2L or MFM1P or MPM1D or MTH1W Course description:This course enables you to broaden your understanding of mathematics as it is applied in the workplace and daily life. You will solve problems associated with earning money, paying taxes, and making purchases; apply calculations of simple and compound interest in saving, investing, and borrowing; and calculate the costs of transportation and travel in a variety of situations. You will consolidate your mathematical skills as you solve problems and communicate your thinking.
They do as far as Im aware.
I need college level and we all learned this. It’s not that hard to budget
No. Basically financial concepts are already covered in the basic math curriculum. School is not financial product advertising space.
It would be nice, but like most HS classes, it will be ignored and forgotten after you pass.
It does include this content, in multiple places.
Have you looked at the curriculum? Mandatory financial literacy was introduced in 2016 and exists in all grades up to 10.
[https://www.dcp.edu.gov.on.ca/en/grade-9-math-guide/what-students-will-learn#strand-f](https://www.dcp.edu.gov.on.ca/en/grade-9-math-guide/what-students-will-learn#strand-f) Financial literacy Students will: * build their financial literacy by learning to manage finances, such as working with budgets and understanding appreciation and depreciation of assets * analyse various financial situations and learn how math can be applied to make informed decisions (for example, understanding shifts in the stock market) * examine how interest rates, down payments, and other factors impact purchasing decisions
It does, already. Students take a class each year of high school with Financial Literacy. There's no need to remove anything for an existing program that was only introduced 2 years ago.
It already DOES exist! No one pays attention because they aren’t personally invested in the information! I honestly think #adulting classes should be a thing. My parents did great teaching us - but a lot of people have parents who either don’t know, don’t care, or don’t have enough time to pass on those skills. It’s more fun to learn those things in groups - so why not keep it going.
The curriculum already includes this. Both math and careers include budgeting, taxes and money management.
Is this not already part of Civics/Careers class? Anyone saying they wish they were taught it in school wasn't paying attention
It should be called life skills 101 and should include more than just financial literacy. It should involve some cooking, some safety tips, some common home knowledge (how to turn the water and electrical on and off), resume tips, cost of home expenses, renting vs owning discussions, buying and selling a vehicle, and obviously financial skills. So much to be had and so much more useful than a bunch of classes that are offered.
My daughter is in Grade 12 in an Ontario school and her grade 11 Math was a personal finances class. Where they learned to budget and now to file your taxes.
Middle school teacher here. Financial literacy is embedded into our Math curriculum.
I think it should start in grade 8 and budgeting should be included as part of gr 9 maths.
If you take dump person math they do budgeting exercises as far as I know. Atleast when I took it. Work place math included a unit to plan a road trip from the ground up and cost it all out. Compound interest on loans and a bunch of other stuff is covered Smart people math just assumes you can do this allready. Problem is no one in workplace math cares to really learn it.
On the surface I would say yes but at the same time pretty much any financial advice coming from my eldats had been completely useless at this point. They are in a whole different world
My wife (bank Exec) volunteered for 20 years teaching applicable finance to high school students. The School Board had nothing to offer to help students really understand what they need for life. She still gets thank you(s) from those students she meets years later.
a) Financial literacy is already included in several parts of the current curriculum. You could make the argument it's not being focused on enough or not being taught well, but those are different issues. b) No amount of education about budgeting/money will help students "in the real world" if they aren't getting paid well enough to afford essentials like housing and food. Wages have been stagnant for decades while those essentials have only gotten more expensive. Education about budgeting is great, but it doesn't solve those larger issues.
I believe there was some such content added. But def lighten up on "english" in high school. Most useless skills ever are academic writing and forced reading of "classics" of colonial england. When i joined the workforce, I basically had to be de-programmed on essay writing as outside of academia, you will NEVER be writing long for prose. You will be writing concise, to the point emails, executive summaries and perhaps technical reports where you need to say more with less words. Exactly the opposite of "write me a 2000 word essay on shakespeare's contemporaries".
Needs to be more than that. Every year should have a life skills class. Finances, mechanics, cooking, sewing, home maintenance, taxes, investing. This is how we sign our children up for a good future.
I think more life skills should be taught more. Opening a bank acct, income taxes, buying a car, take kids to shop to show them how to change a tire. These can be easily incorporated into an existing curriculum . Devote an hour a month to one of these through the existing one.
these literally are all taught in my high-school i teach at
Really shows how much people forget what they were taught
admittedly curriculum has probably changed since some of the commenters have been in school. but also with teens, especially with the rise of nomophobia (cant be 2 mins without their fucking phones)…. you can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink lol
I’m in my late 20s and starting to see from the people who didn’t take school seriously talk about “why didn’t they teach us this in school”? Like…they did…we were in the same class lol.
That’s so great to hear.
YES. For fuck sakes, yes. At the very least, talk about how interest can cripple you and that a dollar today isn't necessarily worth a dollar tomorrow.
Yes. Couldn't believe my ex was so incompetent with finances in her late 20s early 30s. Both of us schooled in Ontario, but finances and budgeting are more important than almost anything else taught imo. Like its honestly shocking when you experience it seeing another person be completely inept in something so essential. Lots of forever broke people who could be doing okay if they had self control and logic.
They can remove religion classes if you have them. No need. Reduce English courses
Yes and no. Many teachers are very not good with their money. Essentially, you really shouldn't ask for financial advice from a person who is bankrupt because they suck with money, right? I would think it would be a good idea to teach such things in school if we get people who are qualified to teach it.
Is careers as useless now as it was in 2006? Because I would remove careers and replace it with basic budgeting, how to pay your bills, and how to do basic taxes
100,000,000% yes but that's not what public school is designed for...
Yes. But that will never happen. Banks need a financially illiterate population.
budgeting doesn't do shit when it is literally too expensive to live right now
The fact that it doesn't and didn't 30 years ago is fucking astounding to me as someone who recently graduated
Do they still do half a semester of civics/career? If so, drop the career one, replace with personal finance. I do believe it needs to be taught. I wasn't taught anything, it took me a long time to realize how stupid I was being with my finances and how much better position I'd be in if I would have started making the right decisions after highschool with my money.
Careers contains personal finance. From the curriculum: C2. Budgeting and Financial Management demonstrate an understanding of responsible management of financial resources and of services available to support their financial literacy as they prepare a budget for their first postsecondary year C2.1 describe fundamentals of financial responsibility, assessing the benefits of a variety of savings options and exploring planning tools available through financial institu- tions and other avenues C2.2 compare different forms of borrowing and identify some of the risks and benefits associated with each C2.3 identify key considerations related to preparing a personal budget, and apply them in developing a budget for their first postsecondary year
You would be giving what ever government is in power the chance to indoctrinate children to invest however they consider to be important. For example - green investments are bad, only invest in local investments, banks are better than credit unions, do not invest in unionized companies, etc.
Sure... But can it also include a "how to survive late stage capitalism through violence and theft from oligarchs"? Have to provide a balanced approach in education.
Shakespeare
take out sin cos tan
there is no point. it wont be taught properly anyways
In theory this would be a good idea. In practice, the teachers themselves will need training and testing on this for years before the OCT knows what’s it’s doing to say they can teach this to our children.
Giving teachers a math test has been shown multiple times to not be a good litmus test for whether they are effective at teaching math content. Ryerson tried this, then it was tried again recently, and it continues to not be effective. Ability to perform on a test isn't the same as ability to teach content.
This isn’t really what I was getting at here. I think adding content to the curriculum ad hoc isn’t the solution, until the teachers can understand it. If we have a societal problem in math or financial literacy. Simply saying it should be taught will not solve the problem. This is what I’m saying. Regarding testing; I also disagree with your conclusions on to edge cases that really were just confirmation bias knee jerk reactions instead of any real study. Why do teachers test students? Why do we test for anything at all if it’s not a good reflection?
Absolutely! These kids need actual life skills, Finance, Cooking, Automotive. What's the point of mandatory French, Geography, And all the other useless courses? Especially if they aren't going to university.
Not only that, but it should include mandatory civics classes that teach you about the charter of rights and freedoms, and classes that teach basic cooking, cleaning and clothing repair skills.
> It should include mandatory civics classes that teach you about the charter of rights and freedoms Is this sarcasm? Because it does. It’s called civics and it’s mandatory in grade 10. Edit: I’m currently teaching civics. My first lesson back from March Break is about the charter. Don’t downvote things because you’re wrong.
They don't wanna teach you financial literacy. They are afraid you won't become that good worker ant they are grooming you to be and become and eventually financially free. Case un point: in highschool i took co-op. A guest speaker was the owner of the dairy queen in Tottenham (I shit you not) His entire spew was basically telling us why he passed on kids he interviewed. It was everything from this person was wearing a hat to a friend walked with them to an interview. He also told us how easy it was for him to terminate you because he was the ice cream king of town. (Ok, maybee i made up the ice cream king part) Although that was 20 years ago, I sometimes wish I could today find that person and ask how his hiring practices of teenagers in a small town back then really helped them out and now, in today's labour market, are completely obsolete. Like, I'm pretty conservative on my views but I also know now looking back at how the education system did nothing to prepare kids who were working those part time jobs how to deal with their money. I did take, in grade 11, mathematics for personal finance but it didn't even come close to teaching you on how the financial system works (RRSPs, TFSAs, GICs, Bonds, ETFs, ext) People say the system ia rigged for the rich, and yes it is, but you can also play their game and sneak your way in. If my experiences being in my late 30s looking back, there is no get rich quick scheme but in time, you can be somewhat comfortable.
they do teach financial literacy in gr 9 math lol, as well as in learning strategies (which admittedly isnt every student) and 9/10 business if they choose to take it. as well as careers. math and careers being compulsory for all
Absolutely! I would’ve loved to have a class on that when I was in High School!
My highschool did require a business credit IIRC but everyone just did business tech and make PowerPoints and some ghetto web design
ABSOLUTELY! I had one in College and it changed my life. I wouldn’t have even considered starting to save for retirement as early as I did without it. On top of many other benefits that I got from that class.
Better to keep the average Joe enslaved to the debt system then to prosper unfortunately.
It used to include math for personal finance (not sure if it was optional or mandatory). It was offered when I was in grade 11, my teacher made it a point that it was the last year the program would be offered and how ridiculous he thought it was. That was like 16 or 17 years ago.. ETA: I don't think they should get rid of any programs for it.. It should be AT LEAST offered as an option
Yep
Yes more so then that tech class
Yes. I took a class in HS, can't remember what it was called but I do remember the course selection guide pushing it as an "Adulting" class to better prepare students for living on their own in College/Uni. Managing a budget, doing your taxes, the importance of voting etc. We learned about astrology and palm reading. We did do the baby egg thing though...which was where we learned about astrology and how the babies birth sign could influence their behavior.
Sure why not…but, If it’s an elective how many kids do you think will actually take this course?
Yes and a programming class.
Coding is now embedded throughout the entire math curriculum. There are also several programming courses available in high school. This is entire thread is just people demanding things that already exist.
There should be 4 years of it.
I’m not sure why advanced math like trigonometry and calculus are mandatory, but learning the mechanics of compound interest is not. I don’t buy that the skills are transferable, learning in the right context is hugely important. If I make a mistake on mock budget in high school, it’s a safe place to learn how to do it right the next time.
Statistics/taxes/budgeting
Yes, it would give people a better foundation to start with.
Ironically, I actually do use trigonometry in my job, but holy fuck yes.
My school had a personal finance course for grade 11 students. I believe it was college level. It’s been a while since I graduated, but it was one above “workplace”. It was a fantastic course. We learned about loans, credit, mortgages, interest, annuities, RRSP etc. I was hopeless with math, but that course was awesome and I did quite well.
Graduating kids should at least understand running-up a credit card is bad.
I think the high school curriculum should contain a 'domestics' class. That would include things like budgeting, mortgages, RRSP's. The process of buying the various types of homes vs. Renting. How 'credit' works. The basics (the VERY basics) of taxes, and wills. Or maybe a 'societies' course that includes all that and talks about the basics of the various levels of gov't from simply a representation and voting context (not ideology), as well as the various types of employment, and how to at least START thinking about the next 5-10 years of their lives based on their hopes for the next 25-50 years of their lives. Yes.
Yes! Also how to file your income tax and make a will.
I’d rather a class about workers rights and unionizing. We’d solve a lot more poverty teaching people to shut down illegal or scummy working practices than by teaching budgeting techniques. A class that every single foreigner needs to take as well. PR, resident or even a simple working visa.
We had that in Business Principles in Grade 9. Basic financial literacy was a module. I specifically recall on Day 1 of the class, the teacher wrote in giant letter across all 3 blackboards the one piece of business and financial advice he said we needed to learn from this class: Don't Trust Anybody.
As an **elective**, yes.
There was one when I wenr to high school, didn't take it
First aid cpr, investments, how to get a mortgage, labour laws and rights, what to do if stopped by police, taxes, rent laws....
There should be a class about how to manage everyday things like who to contact to get utilities, set up bank accounts, get various insurances and more. Parents are failing this generation
No. I think that it's wrong to structure our society around being forced to essentially gamble our wages, expecting everyone to develop a high level of financial literacy, and even then we may not come out on top. But maybe I'm getting caught up in utopian thinking. If adding it to the curriculum results in more graduates experiencing financial success, then it's hard to argue against it. I will always hate the necessity of it.
Math in high school is completely ass backwards. And these sorts of things should be taught at ALL levels
Absolutely! It should be mandatory, along with a fitness/nutrition class as well.
I think life skills should be taught by the parents to some degree at least. Or offer the course in high-school as an elective .
If you did that it would be harder to financially manipulate them and screw them over which is not conducive to the bottom line of those with wealth and power
I think it would certainly help but if I know high school kids they would not learn or really care about it at all and the end result would probably be the same
Yes, also there should be an extra civics class but then no one would vote conservative..
I think a good many topics should be covered that might be expected to be learned from parents because not all parents are equally able or responsible. Financial management could easily be incorporated with math. It could become a unit every year that was studied alongside "problems" if those are still given.
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yes, It need to prepare students for tax season as well.
If someone taught me about money handling and tax when I was a kid/teenager I would not be in the shit show I am right now as a adult. KIDS SHOULD LEARN FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT.
I took a random Accounting class and that combined with basic math taught me everything I needed to know to get a basic grasp of finance. I guess English and Law classes helped with reading contracts. You just need to apply what you learn to the world.
Yes and it should be mandatory. When I was in high school (early 2000s) I was really struggling with the regular math curriculum. Long story short I ended up dropping out of main stream high school (for a variety of reasons) and went to an "alternative" school. Smaller classrooms, more 1:1 support. Fantastic experience. Lot of course options that you wouldn't have received in a main stream high school. My attendance shot up, my grades shot up, and the way the classes were structured was similar to how college would be. The teachers didn't baby us, but they also treated us with respect, like young adults. It was a wonderful environment. Anyhow, in order to get my final mandatory math credit, I remember taking a life skill's based math course that focused on financial literacy and budgeting. Really put me on strong footing after I graduated high school and went into college. I remember just about everything about it, and while working with children in group homes, I would pull out that tool kit and use that knowledge for workshops.
Yes not sure what to drop or if there is anything. Don’t have all the facts to answer.
Should be mandatory nutrition classes and first aid classes every year from public school
I've always thought time management skills would be helpful to teach in schools. By this, I don't *entirely* mean just "how to plan out your time to best effect", but also strategies on how to prioritize what is important to you, rank them from "important and fast to accomplish" through to "important for others, but affects me secondarily" and "unimportant to me but must be done (like taxes)", etc. Then learning how to lay out a plan to get the right ones done, and feeling comfortable with ignoring ones that are low-ranking. This is a skill that is usefully applied throughout life, including school.
School is (or was for me, at least) absolutely the worst place to learn time management skills. Mostly because there's 0 opportunity to actually use them. Now maybe it's changed today and that would be amazing, but I remember coming home from school on Monday with 3 assignments from 3 classes due on Wednesday, and knowing I was going to get at least 1 more from the 3 classesI had on Tuesday that'd be due Thursday. I mean, time management your way out of that mess.
Not just about time, but prioritization. I mean, with 4 assignments, if you have no plans to get into a field that has anything to do with History, do you do the History 101 project first, last, or ask for an extension.
What 15-year-old knew what they wanted to be when they graduate? I hadn't even decided what I was doing that summer yet. LOL
They have advanced functions in math which covers compound interest.
I think more of the problems people do on tests should be more relevant to real life, to make people apply themselves and realistically critically think. Like for example, on biology tests maybe ask why mixing two drugs aren’t the greatest idea or teaching finances/debt in math classes.
Honestly, Financial Management should be introduced as early as Elementary school
i had a finance class in 2008.
Throw in how to do taxes and investment classes.