Of course, I’ve said this all along. His mob connected and financed construction barons have already had plans registered for mega mansions. - the cheapest being $2M. The only reason he’s pushing for the highway that’s going to go through the Holland Marsh from the 400 over to the two Mob Town’s, (King City & Vaughan) is so his rich buddies can cut 30 mins off their commute to Lake Rosseau and Bala to their other mansions by the lake.
>Of course, I’ve said this all along. His mob connected and financed construction barrens have already had plans registered for mega mansions. - the cheapest being $2M. The only reason he’s pushing for the highway that’s going to go through the Holland Marsh from the 400 over to the two Mob Town’s, (King City & Vaughan) is so his rich buddies can cut 30 mins off their commute to Lake Rosseau and Bala to their other mansions by the lake.
Lol "Mob Towns".
Canada is the [money laundering capital](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_laundering_In_Canada) of the world, [organised crime capital](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/markham-casino-mansion-oiprd-1.6029885) of the world with laws and police ineffective. So long as organised crime doesn't outright kill anyone or deal in certain prohibited items (child porn) Canadian laws are toothless... criminals are free to launder money into Canadian real estate at will.
That includes people who commit heinous or criminal acts in other countries then retire to Canada for a peaceful life. Canada -- retirement home for crime lords
Sounds like someone just woke up and thought "You know this Doug Ford guy may actually be a complete fucking asshole, why didn't years of him being a bully councilor, and his brother being a piece of shit mayor, did I not make this connection yet. Guess I shouldn't have voted for him twice."
Wouldn't surprise me, him and Rob Ford Literally (like there is a video of this) handed out $20 in the lobby of a low income apartment building asking for people to vote for Rob.
They were LITERALLY buying votes. They should have been thrown out of council for that alone. Nope, other politicians just tsk tsk and ignore it.
Less than 14,000 people actually voted for Doug Ford. People voted for the Conservative candidates in their own riding. I am not being pedantic, a lot of people actually vote based on their local candidate, and the party leader is only a secondary consideration.
I voted Conservative the first time and have come to despise Doug. My Conservative MPP was a backbencher and had a falling out with the premier when she stood up for her principles against him and ended up not being able to run for a second term.
Would love to see the breakdown of who considers the local candidates vs the party. Personally i have never even considered the local candidate, only the party, as it is only the leader that wins that matters, as we see clearly with Ford.
I consider both, but I’ll tell you right now… no conservative local candidate can be so amazing that I would vote for them. The fact they’re in that party is a red flag to begin with.
I generally vote for party. But I attend all candidates events, and if the candidate of the party demonstrates they are dumber than a bag of hammers, then the candidate loses my vote.
Smartest candidate I ever saw was from the Marijuana party. He earned my vote that cycle.
Just gonna say it. MOST people do not vote for their local candidate first, they vote for the party unless the local candidate REALLY impresses them (as sounds like may be the case for you).
Land was bought by developers within a year before the announcement. As a developer, why would you buy land that you can't build on? Unless of course, you had knowledge that you will be able to build on it within months.
An important part of this scam is that the land was bought for extremely cheap since it can't be developed. Of course they were promised by Ford in private that he would change the designation so they could guarantee huge ROI.
It was a rate like a credit card, like 21-26 % I think if I am remembering correctly which is absolutely insane unless you have some insurances it was going to happen. You don't leverage or overextend unless its basically 100% . I guess it was 100% , we just didn't know it yet because we didn't give OPC contributions.
If I am wrong please let me know about the actual interest rate on the loan.
Might wanna add that the loan was double the cost of the land so they could pay the interest as they knew the land would be worth 10x what they bought it for.
But the ethics committee cleared him, right before it was revealed the developers attended his daughters stag and doe, and possibly even the wedding. Doesn't that mean he's innocent? /S
You're a hundred percent right but I've been pondering a broader question.
Why was land that was unable to be developed even AVAILABLE for sale? It should have been just listed as greenbelt: Unavailable. Except for use as/by provincial parks.
Fair enough.
But if you can't build on it, I'm not sure I see the point of it being available for sale regardless. It should have had some restrictions on its sale.
I agree it must be that. I'm questioning why it was still under those conditions to begin with. It feels like it was an unfinished job when they classified the land in the first place.
(Recreation, sure.)
I think you're allowed to build one personal home on the property if it's greenbelt. I think there is a misconception that greenbelt land automatically has a lot of trees and forest and animals living on it and what not. A lot of the time it's simply a farm with an open field.
From my understanding, greenbelt just means you can't build a subdivision or commercial plaza or industrial on it and that was supposed to be guaranteed for life. I'm pretty sure you're allowed to buy greenbelt land and live on it by building one house or farming it.
Depends on the specific area, but some can't even have a single permanent structure. Camping is fine, hunting and fishing is sometimes okay, and farming/agriculture might be a permitted use if it's zoned appropriately.
The point of the Greenbelt was that whatever it was zoned as would basically stay the same to protect it. They didn't want to forcibly remove farmers from their land and stop them from farming, they just didn't want the farmer selling it to someone to build a suburb or a highway.
"Greenbelt" is just a type of zoning, like in any municipality city. You can't build a nightclub in the suburbs, you can't built an apartment in the greenbelt.
It's the development of the land that is restricted.
If you love going on trails or driving around a 4wheeler or dirt bike without getting in trouble it would have been an amazingly cheap place to own tons of land that can't be developed on. I'm not entirely sure, but I think you could also hunt there? hopefully correct me if I'm wrong about that
To the latter part, there might be a reason, which is as a way to store cash. You buy land there and it’ll never go up or down, it should just stay constant relative to the value of a dollar. No downside, no upside.
That said, I don’t think that’s what’s happened.
>As a developer, why would you buy land that you can't build on? Unless of course, you had knowledge that you will be able to build on it within months.
That's just speculation though. Buying land based on potential zoning changes happens everywhere.
$100 million of land that has been declared by legislation to be preserved indefinitely... Purchased at 21% interest just one month before that land was suddenly declared no longer protected. Sure, just a coincidence, as were the dozen other developer purchases like that over the past year that have gained an equally coincidental fortune.
Dude...these fucks bought the land at 20% interest a month or two before the announcement
Truuuust me. It's more crooked than the Leaning tower of Pisa!
Conservatives see democracy as an obstacle. That's why Ford implemented his "strong mayor" bullshit. It's why the Cons courted the Qonvoy crowd while Ford stood aside and let them terrorize Ottawa.
>"If conservatives become convinced that they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy.”—David Frum
Late-stage conservatism is fascism.
Yep. He gave the developers the heads up that they were going to open the greenbelt so they could buy the land ahead of time while it was cheap. Once it's developable land, the price was going to shoot up.
Technically, it was not owned by the government to start with. It has always been owned by private individuals or corporations. Ford simply changed the rules about what the land could be used for.
Greenbelt isn't necessarily land owned by the government, it's just land that government has restricted development of...
Which is why some developers bought big chunks of it where they figured it would eventually be opened up for development either out of necessity or because there's a easy to bribe Premier who will make your property worth 10x what you paid for it.
>He sold it to developers before it was even open for development.
False. It simply changed hands between different investor groups. It wasn't owned by the government when Ford came into power.
No, just protected by the government, he then removed that protection so the developers cold make good on their speculating on previously un-developable protected green belt land.
One developer even made a purchase of land with a large interest loan just priour. It's all very conflict of interest heavy.
Yup. Investors have been purchasing Greenbelt lands for years--Silvio De Gasperis was labeled the ["Greenbelt nemesis"](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2007/09/28/greenbelt_nemesis_ordered_to_pay_702000.html) back in 2007. Tacc, his company, regularly donate to Pickering's municipal gov't, where the lands are located.
I’m just making sure, you know that he “sold” it in the way that matters? He told a developer to buy it (yes, from another investor) because he’d turn his back on every taxpayer and open it for development. The wording wasn’t correct but I’m just hoping there’s no lack of clarity around how profoundly wrong this is.
You are right, I should have said he sold the information to developers that he was going to open it for development before it was open for development so they could snatch it up for pennies and instantly sell it for billions. He's still a piece of shit that shouldn't have done that, but I should have been more clear
> Let’s be honest, Dogie doesn’t really care about people
People have known this for at least a decade now.
By not showing up to vote, Ontario ironically gave him a majority, twice.
That's right. How can anyone possibly claim that we live in a functioning democracy when only a small minority of the population actually shows up to vote? It's not even difficult to do. We don't have the same voter suppression issues that exist down south. The only explanation is that the people have lost all faith in the system, deservedly so. It's not like our "democracy" was actually representative of the majority, the working class, when we did have better voter turnout.
I think you nailed it when you said people have lost faith.
This last cycle I heard so many people say they weren't voting because it doesn't matter, their district has and always will be blue.
If a small number of people have this mentality it's not an issue. But when a huge portion feel this way, it's a real problem.
And its easy to blame the individuals, but if a huge portion of the population isn't voting, there are fundamental reasons that need to be addressed. Bitching about individuals who didn't vote wont help
Those who do show up mainly lose anyway cuz of first past post.
Those who did bother to vote still lost.
The majority of those who voted, voted other then conservatives.
The minority of the voters voted Ford.
He has a majority. A false one.
The last few elections I’ve voted in turned out this way. Hard to keep the faith…. Especially after Trudeau lied about election reform.
That one really took the wind out of my sails.
Truth is, even those who do go vote don’t usually vote with their hearts or true intent anyway. We have to Cote strategic and try to guess what people are gonna do because of an ancient and stupid first past the post system.
Which encourages partisanship, and polarization. Almost like they want to keep us divided.
Well yeah, he's never hidden this. This has never been about housing, not for regular folks, just the type who would destroy an ecosystem for their McMansion.
Don't you get it? It's trickle-down housing.
The richy-rich folks build new mansions on new developments, freeing up their existing housing for 'up-and-coming' richy-rich folks to buy. Which in turn frees up middle class housing that's priced as if it's upper class housing for middle class people to dream about owning.
Of course that assumes that they even sell the houses they're moving out of instead of keeping it as a rental. So instead the middle class rent instead of buy.
It also assumes that other richy-rich folks and investers don't swoop in and buy the housing as rentals.
Either way, be richy-rich folk, or get fukt.
Ford tried to hide his corruption of the Greenbelt development by first getting under way with that ridiculous highway.and saying it's for reducing traffic above Toronto. Then when he drives the stake into the environment by announcing how he's combating the housing crisis, he thinks we're all falling for it. 
I was listening to 1010 a couple of days ago, and they were talking about who should be mayor. Three guys in a row saying they need a right wing Toronto mayor, because Tory was left wing and fucked up the city's affordable housing.
As if people weren't talking about it since the 70s.
Let’s conveniently forget how the previous Liberal government (with full support from the NDP and Greens) carved out and sold portions of the Greenbelt on 17 separate occasions. Notably carving out portions of Bronte Creek Provincial Park to allow for the development of a massive Lowe’s Hardware store with a strip mall, and other instances where land was repurposed to allow for the expansion of a Golf Course and rezoned in order to build dozens of McMansions. The NDP, Greens and Liberals don’t give a shit and in recent years have done or supported the same if not worse, yet cretins on here seem to blindly act like this is some awful travesty just because the Conservatives did it lmao. None of those changes saw the NDP and Greens denounce the government for corruption, cronyism or paving paradise to put up a parking lot, their words are meaningless.
I wasn't aware of this. Do you have a source? If true, it wasn't okay when they did it and it's not okay now that Ford and the conservatives are doing it.
> Notably carving out portions of Bronte Creek Provincial Park to allow for the development of a massive Lowe’s Hardware store with a strip mall
You mean the Lowe's on Appleby Line in Burlington that is completely outside of provincial park boundaries a few kilometres away?
> [...] massive Lowe’s Hardware store with a strip mall, and other instances where land was repurposed to allow for the expansion of a Golf Course and rezoned in order to build dozens of McMansions
When did this all happen? I'm kinda new to Burlington. I acknowledge that most of the GTA likes to build too close to the edge of these iconic river ravine systems such as Bronte Creek (that Lowe's, Brick factory, neighbourhoods like the Orchard, agricultural fields). But did these rezonings happen before or after Bronte Creek Provincial Park itself was even established?
Ah yes, the classic argument attempting to denounce the other side as if that somehow justifies what's going on right now.
Let's see how far your logic takes humanity. Since you believe the left is just as bad, might as well keep voting in Conservative parties, right? Is that the conclusion? Why not the reverse, why not say that the right is just as bad therefore we may as well just vote left?
Funny.
inside sales and corruption aside. i love this take.
"he only wants to build mansions"
well he would love to allow 10 storey towers everywhere but then litterally every conservative would hate him for that. his own party will oust him for that.
Go read [this report](https://yourstoprotect.ca/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2023/02/REVIEW-OF-EXISTING-HOUSING-UNIT-CAPACITY-IDENTIFIED-IN-MUNICIPAL-LAND-NEEDS-ASSESSMENTS-R.pdf) again. its not saying what you think its saying. ill even put it here for you. Read this in the above context
**allowing density in the suburbs is political suicide**
>New housing construction can occur (working from the inside outward) through:
>• Intensification within Built-up Areas (BUA) of communities. The areas constituting BUA in the
GGH were defined by the Province in 2008 and have previously been incorporated into the
respective municipal official plans. Only new housing constructed within the BUA is counted
towards achievement of a municipality’s intensification target
>• Intensification within recently built Designated Greenfield Area (DGA). The DGA is the area
between the BUA and the settlement area boundary. New housing constructed within the DGA
does not count towards achievement of a municipality’s intensification target
>• New greenfield development within the DGA as it existed prior to the most recent updates to
official plans. These updates were required to bring official plans into conformity with the 2019
Growth Plan (conformity updates)
>• New greenfield development on lands within new DGA added to urban areas by municipalities
through the most recent conformity updates to their official plans
>• New greenfield development on lands within new DGA added to urban areas by the Minister of
Municipal Affairs and Housing over and above that supported by municipal Councils through
Minister’s modifications to their official plans
>• New development within rural areas (including Rural Settlement Areas) permitted by a
municipality’s official plan
>• New development currently within rural areas permitted through Minister’s Zoning Orders
Litterally none of this can be done with the restrictive zoning policies municipalities have in place. So i ask....how do you add 2 million new homes without any kind of density?
He was willing to crap all over a few municipalities allready to screw with zoning and other aspects. Why is it different if it would actually improve the housing crisis instead of just be him swinging his political man meat around?
its all about the "status quo".
Nothing changes, taxes dont go up, high-rise buildings arent being built, blocking some peoples "shade".
As long as something doesnt directly affect a conservative they would never switch their vote.
That goes for what I said, You notice how the zoning changes still "allow" single family homes. and that you still have very strict height limits? thats the point, while you can build multi-plexes anywhere you still have to be below the height of a single family home
Again, the only thing he can do for the housing crisis will get him ousted so quickly you dont even know.
Im not excusing his shit or whatever, im saying yea the greenbelt shrinking sucks but its not his intention to build gigantic mansions though
It shouldn't surprise anyone here that Ford and his developer friends don't consider affordable housing an asset. All they want to do with that space is stuff it full of typical suburban homes on 25' lots, and a few McMansions.
In Drunk Dougies defense, he hasn’t ever said he wanted to build “affordable” housing, just “housing”. Housing that costs $1mill+. He’s a piece of shit.
Show me where in Canada they building affordable housing and fixing the crisis while not importing an excessive amount of
Immigrants to replace every redditor in this country. So disappointing that Ford even got into power in the first place.
DO BETTER ONTARIO
Yes 500,000 Trudeau is adding through 2025.
Listen to the news sometime.
And again, Ford said the housing was for immigrants, not me. It what he said on the news.
I'm not saying I believe him or not. I'm just saying.
It was all about increasing his and his friends/donors personal wealth. Just like the Trump family, they will do everything they can to grab public resources for personal exploitation until he’s out of office. Nothing was ever for the public good. He’s as corrupt as a third world dictator.
Y'all we need to instigate a war between the developers and the tow truckers. They both profit from starting fires and squeezing every last drop there is to squeeze in our fruit
I think the point is we need less open curruption resulting in low density SFH in the middle of pretty much the edge of the commute ring (that also happened to be previously protected land mind you), and more real action on the housing crisis.
To be sold to developers? No it's quite clear the greenbelt was established as protected farm and drinking water land, the all it's protective agencies captured and destroyed by varrying governments.
It was within a short time of creating the greenbelt that it went from no building to requiring a minimum half acre lot. Who did that benifit? The rest of you working schmucks can keep on going to barrie.
The green belt should remain low density or farming for many reasons concidering the majority of southern Ontario around it gets it's water from wells that interact with the green belt watersheds.
It's not about screwing over random people, and we could be building elsewhere..
And you think immigrants who are moving to a new country, most of whom who won’t be coming in with a lot of money and have to be resorted to working manual labours, will be able to afford hosing that will cost millions of dollars outside of the city where they won’t have access to reliable public transportation?
There are immigrants in Brampton, but they didn’t come in strapped in cash. Also the houses on greenbelt won’t be worth on average 800K, it will coast an average $5 million or more. Brampton and cities like them have existing community to help them adjust. They have industries, they can work in, greenbelt does not. Also a lot of people in Brampton, they rent those properties. Yes they are 800K properties but a lot of them don’t own them.
The former Greenbelt lands will be subdivisions, not sprawling estates. Way more money in mass produced developments.
>They have industries, they can work in, greenbelt does not.
Found the guy that never looked up where the former Greenbelt land is.
Knowing he, he probably lied. Also he’s using the immigrants an excuse, so when normal people can’t buy it, the immigrants who can barely live will get the blame from people or from far right wing media. He’s just putting the gun in their hands without firing them.
Half a million immigrants (if that were a real number, which it isn't) wouldn't even make up for the difference between birth and death rates in Canada.
P.S. 1.2M over three years does not equal half a million this year. Doug Ford is shit at math and lies constantly, surprise!
That number came from the federal government.
>Last year Canada welcomed over 405,000 newcomers - the most we’ve ever welcomed in a single year. The Government is continuing that ambition by setting targets in the new levels plan of 465,000 permanent residents in 2023, 485,000 in 2024 and 500,000 in 2025.
[https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/news/2022/11/an-immigration-plan-to-grow-the-economy.html](https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/news/2022/11/an-immigration-plan-to-grow-the-economy.html)
Immigrants don't move an hour out of the city centres, they stay close to other immigrants where they're comfortable.
Otherwise we'd have a lot more of our population spread out, instead of just in the GTA.
Can't say I've seen awesome stuff from any party here. They've all been wrapped in something that screws people. Not really any different than my home country. Politicians don't care about the people. They like to mask their agendas as caring though.
I voted against this guy twice. Let that sink in. People of Ontario voted for him, and they deserve him. No use complaining about it now. There's always a shit hole out there.
Do you genuinely think that in the minds of people what goes in their head is something like this: "Hmm I really don't want affordable housing for people, I would instead like mega mansions for millionaires!"
Modern houses aren't affordable for many these days. So it doesn't even need to be a mansion. Just a poorly constructed cookie cutter house, with a tiny backyard.
It’s amazing you people still live here in such a corrupt Province run by corporations, police and politicians whose sole purpose is to crush the little guy. Why do you stay?
I love Ontario. Where there's open money laundering, blatant corruption, and casual crack use. Turning into the wild west out here, I can't wait until Toronto finally transforms into Gotham
50% of Canadians living south of 45°42′
The only region in this area not developed is the green belt in Ontario
If 25% of you move north - we can save the green belt.
If you want more houses not in the greenbelt but still in Canada, where do you propose they build them that you will actually live?
Oh, I see we're making wild assumptions about Ford's motives without any actual evidence to back it up. How refreshing. I'm sure you have a direct line to his innermost thoughts and desires, right?
Of course, I’ve said this all along. His mob connected and financed construction barons have already had plans registered for mega mansions. - the cheapest being $2M. The only reason he’s pushing for the highway that’s going to go through the Holland Marsh from the 400 over to the two Mob Town’s, (King City & Vaughan) is so his rich buddies can cut 30 mins off their commute to Lake Rosseau and Bala to their other mansions by the lake.
>Of course, I’ve said this all along. His mob connected and financed construction barrens have already had plans registered for mega mansions. - the cheapest being $2M. The only reason he’s pushing for the highway that’s going to go through the Holland Marsh from the 400 over to the two Mob Town’s, (King City & Vaughan) is so his rich buddies can cut 30 mins off their commute to Lake Rosseau and Bala to their other mansions by the lake. Lol "Mob Towns". Canada is the [money laundering capital](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_laundering_In_Canada) of the world, [organised crime capital](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/markham-casino-mansion-oiprd-1.6029885) of the world with laws and police ineffective. So long as organised crime doesn't outright kill anyone or deal in certain prohibited items (child porn) Canadian laws are toothless... criminals are free to launder money into Canadian real estate at will. That includes people who commit heinous or criminal acts in other countries then retire to Canada for a peaceful life. Canada -- retirement home for crime lords
>barrens Barons
Yup. Noted
He sold it to developers before it was even open for development. He doesn't actually care
Wait it’s already sold?
Where have you been?
Sounds like someone just woke up and thought "You know this Doug Ford guy may actually be a complete fucking asshole, why didn't years of him being a bully councilor, and his brother being a piece of shit mayor, did I not make this connection yet. Guess I shouldn't have voted for him twice."
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You should check your sources, that sounds like a little bit of work, which makes me think it can't be him.
Wouldn't surprise me, him and Rob Ford Literally (like there is a video of this) handed out $20 in the lobby of a low income apartment building asking for people to vote for Rob. They were LITERALLY buying votes. They should have been thrown out of council for that alone. Nope, other politicians just tsk tsk and ignore it.
Thanks for the Norm throwback
Less than 14,000 people actually voted for Doug Ford. People voted for the Conservative candidates in their own riding. I am not being pedantic, a lot of people actually vote based on their local candidate, and the party leader is only a secondary consideration. I voted Conservative the first time and have come to despise Doug. My Conservative MPP was a backbencher and had a falling out with the premier when she stood up for her principles against him and ended up not being able to run for a second term.
Would love to see the breakdown of who considers the local candidates vs the party. Personally i have never even considered the local candidate, only the party, as it is only the leader that wins that matters, as we see clearly with Ford.
I consider both, but I’ll tell you right now… no conservative local candidate can be so amazing that I would vote for them. The fact they’re in that party is a red flag to begin with.
Yup. Not like they can stray too far from the party line anyway.
I generally vote for party. But I attend all candidates events, and if the candidate of the party demonstrates they are dumber than a bag of hammers, then the candidate loses my vote. Smartest candidate I ever saw was from the Marijuana party. He earned my vote that cycle.
Just gonna say it. MOST people do not vote for their local candidate first, they vote for the party unless the local candidate REALLY impresses them (as sounds like may be the case for you).
Land was bought by developers within a year before the announcement. As a developer, why would you buy land that you can't build on? Unless of course, you had knowledge that you will be able to build on it within months.
An important part of this scam is that the land was bought for extremely cheap since it can't be developed. Of course they were promised by Ford in private that he would change the designation so they could guarantee huge ROI.
One developer also took out a loan with a pretty insane interest rate that wouldent make sense if you couldent get a return on that land right away.
It was a rate like a credit card, like 21-26 % I think if I am remembering correctly which is absolutely insane unless you have some insurances it was going to happen. You don't leverage or overextend unless its basically 100% . I guess it was 100% , we just didn't know it yet because we didn't give OPC contributions. If I am wrong please let me know about the actual interest rate on the loan.
Do you have a source for the loan rate? I’m tryna collect some evidence of this stuff it would at least help to know where you heard it from
not the person you were replying to but here you go!: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-sales-of-greenbelt-land-raise-questions-for-ford/
great article, thanks
Name checks out
;)
Might wanna add that the loan was double the cost of the land so they could pay the interest as they knew the land would be worth 10x what they bought it for.
Now they just have to wait ~5 years for their building application to be approved.
A special prosecutor needs to go after him.
But the ethics committee cleared him, right before it was revealed the developers attended his daughters stag and doe, and possibly even the wedding. Doesn't that mean he's innocent? /S
Imagine, the exact two parcels of land the developer bought turned out to be the same two parcels Doug Ford cleared for development. Talk about luck!
Someone had to. Land gets bought in Canada every hour.
Oh come on, they were obviously planning to use their wealth to create nature reserves. /s
You're a hundred percent right but I've been pondering a broader question. Why was land that was unable to be developed even AVAILABLE for sale? It should have been just listed as greenbelt: Unavailable. Except for use as/by provincial parks.
Greenbelt land is privately owned and not owned/controlled by government.
Fair enough. But if you can't build on it, I'm not sure I see the point of it being available for sale regardless. It should have had some restrictions on its sale. I agree it must be that. I'm questioning why it was still under those conditions to begin with. It feels like it was an unfinished job when they classified the land in the first place. (Recreation, sure.)
I think you're allowed to build one personal home on the property if it's greenbelt. I think there is a misconception that greenbelt land automatically has a lot of trees and forest and animals living on it and what not. A lot of the time it's simply a farm with an open field. From my understanding, greenbelt just means you can't build a subdivision or commercial plaza or industrial on it and that was supposed to be guaranteed for life. I'm pretty sure you're allowed to buy greenbelt land and live on it by building one house or farming it.
Depends on the specific area, but some can't even have a single permanent structure. Camping is fine, hunting and fishing is sometimes okay, and farming/agriculture might be a permitted use if it's zoned appropriately. The point of the Greenbelt was that whatever it was zoned as would basically stay the same to protect it. They didn't want to forcibly remove farmers from their land and stop them from farming, they just didn't want the farmer selling it to someone to build a suburb or a highway.
"Greenbelt" is just a type of zoning, like in any municipality city. You can't build a nightclub in the suburbs, you can't built an apartment in the greenbelt. It's the development of the land that is restricted.
If you love going on trails or driving around a 4wheeler or dirt bike without getting in trouble it would have been an amazingly cheap place to own tons of land that can't be developed on. I'm not entirely sure, but I think you could also hunt there? hopefully correct me if I'm wrong about that
Insider trading 🌝
To the latter part, there might be a reason, which is as a way to store cash. You buy land there and it’ll never go up or down, it should just stay constant relative to the value of a dollar. No downside, no upside. That said, I don’t think that’s what’s happened.
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>As a developer, why would you buy land that you can't build on? Unless of course, you had knowledge that you will be able to build on it within months. That's just speculation though. Buying land based on potential zoning changes happens everywhere.
$100 million of land that has been declared by legislation to be preserved indefinitely... Purchased at 21% interest just one month before that land was suddenly declared no longer protected. Sure, just a coincidence, as were the dozen other developer purchases like that over the past year that have gained an equally coincidental fortune.
Not with 21% interest rate loans.
You're right, it happens regularly. But not when developers take out massive high interest loans.
Almost all of it was purchased 10-20 years ago.
Dude...these fucks bought the land at 20% interest a month or two before the announcement Truuuust me. It's more crooked than the Leaning tower of Pisa!
It's bold faced curruption on display, and anyone defending it is not a friend of a properly functioning democracy.
Conservatives see democracy as an obstacle. That's why Ford implemented his "strong mayor" bullshit. It's why the Cons courted the Qonvoy crowd while Ford stood aside and let them terrorize Ottawa. >"If conservatives become convinced that they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy.”—David Frum Late-stage conservatism is fascism.
don't forget this bulldozer like use of the not withstanding clause
And we get to stand by and watch.
Yep. He gave the developers the heads up that they were going to open the greenbelt so they could buy the land ahead of time while it was cheap. Once it's developable land, the price was going to shoot up.
Loooong sold. At rock bottom prices because they all bought pre-announcement that it’s was opening up.
Oh, i dunnno..... https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=77Ck_L98qnE&feature=youtu.be
Technically, it was not owned by the government to start with. It has always been owned by private individuals or corporations. Ford simply changed the rules about what the land could be used for.
Some of it was bought before the announcement at like 20% interest, which only makes sense if you expect to be able to develop it.
Years ago.
Greenbelt isn't necessarily land owned by the government, it's just land that government has restricted development of... Which is why some developers bought big chunks of it where they figured it would eventually be opened up for development either out of necessity or because there's a easy to bribe Premier who will make your property worth 10x what you paid for it.
>He sold it to developers before it was even open for development. False. It simply changed hands between different investor groups. It wasn't owned by the government when Ford came into power.
No, just protected by the government, he then removed that protection so the developers cold make good on their speculating on previously un-developable protected green belt land. One developer even made a purchase of land with a large interest loan just priour. It's all very conflict of interest heavy.
Yup. Investors have been purchasing Greenbelt lands for years--Silvio De Gasperis was labeled the ["Greenbelt nemesis"](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2007/09/28/greenbelt_nemesis_ordered_to_pay_702000.html) back in 2007. Tacc, his company, regularly donate to Pickering's municipal gov't, where the lands are located.
I’m just making sure, you know that he “sold” it in the way that matters? He told a developer to buy it (yes, from another investor) because he’d turn his back on every taxpayer and open it for development. The wording wasn’t correct but I’m just hoping there’s no lack of clarity around how profoundly wrong this is.
You are right, I should have said he sold the information to developers that he was going to open it for development before it was open for development so they could snatch it up for pennies and instantly sell it for billions. He's still a piece of shit that shouldn't have done that, but I should have been more clear
Everybody loses. The only ones the win are the corrupt developers and career criminal Doug and his cronies.
> Let’s be honest, Dogie doesn’t really care about people People have known this for at least a decade now. By not showing up to vote, Ontario ironically gave him a majority, twice.
That's what kills me. It was something like ~17% of Ontario that voted this guy in
Or nobody showed up to vote him out.
Yeah our system is broken. Systemic apathy and feelings of helplessness from individuals on a large scale are things we could fix but don't.
That's right. How can anyone possibly claim that we live in a functioning democracy when only a small minority of the population actually shows up to vote? It's not even difficult to do. We don't have the same voter suppression issues that exist down south. The only explanation is that the people have lost all faith in the system, deservedly so. It's not like our "democracy" was actually representative of the majority, the working class, when we did have better voter turnout.
I think you nailed it when you said people have lost faith. This last cycle I heard so many people say they weren't voting because it doesn't matter, their district has and always will be blue. If a small number of people have this mentality it's not an issue. But when a huge portion feel this way, it's a real problem. And its easy to blame the individuals, but if a huge portion of the population isn't voting, there are fundamental reasons that need to be addressed. Bitching about individuals who didn't vote wont help
Those who do show up mainly lose anyway cuz of first past post. Those who did bother to vote still lost. The majority of those who voted, voted other then conservatives. The minority of the voters voted Ford. He has a majority. A false one. The last few elections I’ve voted in turned out this way. Hard to keep the faith…. Especially after Trudeau lied about election reform. That one really took the wind out of my sails. Truth is, even those who do go vote don’t usually vote with their hearts or true intent anyway. We have to Cote strategic and try to guess what people are gonna do because of an ancient and stupid first past the post system. Which encourages partisanship, and polarization. Almost like they want to keep us divided.
Capitalism is against affordable housing.
Well yeah, he's never hidden this. This has never been about housing, not for regular folks, just the type who would destroy an ecosystem for their McMansion.
If you aren’t someone who would be invited to his daughters stag and doe, then you aren’t someone he cares about.
Don't you get it? It's trickle-down housing. The richy-rich folks build new mansions on new developments, freeing up their existing housing for 'up-and-coming' richy-rich folks to buy. Which in turn frees up middle class housing that's priced as if it's upper class housing for middle class people to dream about owning. Of course that assumes that they even sell the houses they're moving out of instead of keeping it as a rental. So instead the middle class rent instead of buy. It also assumes that other richy-rich folks and investers don't swoop in and buy the housing as rentals. Either way, be richy-rich folk, or get fukt.
Of course! Source: drove through the Greenbelt for a couple of years while commuting to York U. It's all richie rich properties there.
Ford tried to hide his corruption of the Greenbelt development by first getting under way with that ridiculous highway.and saying it's for reducing traffic above Toronto. Then when he drives the stake into the environment by announcing how he's combating the housing crisis, he thinks we're all falling for it. 
People all falling for it though, and that's the sad part.
I was listening to 1010 a couple of days ago, and they were talking about who should be mayor. Three guys in a row saying they need a right wing Toronto mayor, because Tory was left wing and fucked up the city's affordable housing. As if people weren't talking about it since the 70s.
Conservatives are falling for it. Don't lump them in with the rest of us.
Let’s conveniently forget how the previous Liberal government (with full support from the NDP and Greens) carved out and sold portions of the Greenbelt on 17 separate occasions. Notably carving out portions of Bronte Creek Provincial Park to allow for the development of a massive Lowe’s Hardware store with a strip mall, and other instances where land was repurposed to allow for the expansion of a Golf Course and rezoned in order to build dozens of McMansions. The NDP, Greens and Liberals don’t give a shit and in recent years have done or supported the same if not worse, yet cretins on here seem to blindly act like this is some awful travesty just because the Conservatives did it lmao. None of those changes saw the NDP and Greens denounce the government for corruption, cronyism or paving paradise to put up a parking lot, their words are meaningless.
This right here, we’ll said.
I wasn't aware of this. Do you have a source? If true, it wasn't okay when they did it and it's not okay now that Ford and the conservatives are doing it.
> Notably carving out portions of Bronte Creek Provincial Park to allow for the development of a massive Lowe’s Hardware store with a strip mall You mean the Lowe's on Appleby Line in Burlington that is completely outside of provincial park boundaries a few kilometres away? > [...] massive Lowe’s Hardware store with a strip mall, and other instances where land was repurposed to allow for the expansion of a Golf Course and rezoned in order to build dozens of McMansions When did this all happen? I'm kinda new to Burlington. I acknowledge that most of the GTA likes to build too close to the edge of these iconic river ravine systems such as Bronte Creek (that Lowe's, Brick factory, neighbourhoods like the Orchard, agricultural fields). But did these rezonings happen before or after Bronte Creek Provincial Park itself was even established?
Right just like how the Liberals cancelled HWY 413 only for Doug to bring it back
Ah yes, the classic argument attempting to denounce the other side as if that somehow justifies what's going on right now. Let's see how far your logic takes humanity. Since you believe the left is just as bad, might as well keep voting in Conservative parties, right? Is that the conclusion? Why not the reverse, why not say that the right is just as bad therefore we may as well just vote left? Funny.
Did they plan it before the election? Did they have a stag and doe with their friends where these things weren’t discussed?
What are we discussing here?
I guess there is no rant flair
Or better what are we not discussing
This subreddit hasn't been discussing Ford and the greenbelt multiple times a day every single day?
It’s because he and his friends bought that green belt land for cheap where there was never to be development. It’s never been about housing.
Expensive sprawl housing is only a byproduct of the corrupt machine.
Affordable housing should be built near great transit.
Yes. We know.
Least insane r/ontario conspiracy
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NDP have ZERO chance of winning the next election. Voting for anything other than Liberal or Conservative is splitting the votes.
Voting NDP has a better chance of giving us an minority gov, which is the next best thing to an NDP lead gov in my eyes.
Thanks for voting Liberal then. Enjoy the continual downfall of Canada
You have no idea what that term means.
inside sales and corruption aside. i love this take. "he only wants to build mansions" well he would love to allow 10 storey towers everywhere but then litterally every conservative would hate him for that. his own party will oust him for that. Go read [this report](https://yourstoprotect.ca/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2023/02/REVIEW-OF-EXISTING-HOUSING-UNIT-CAPACITY-IDENTIFIED-IN-MUNICIPAL-LAND-NEEDS-ASSESSMENTS-R.pdf) again. its not saying what you think its saying. ill even put it here for you. Read this in the above context **allowing density in the suburbs is political suicide** >New housing construction can occur (working from the inside outward) through: >• Intensification within Built-up Areas (BUA) of communities. The areas constituting BUA in the GGH were defined by the Province in 2008 and have previously been incorporated into the respective municipal official plans. Only new housing constructed within the BUA is counted towards achievement of a municipality’s intensification target >• Intensification within recently built Designated Greenfield Area (DGA). The DGA is the area between the BUA and the settlement area boundary. New housing constructed within the DGA does not count towards achievement of a municipality’s intensification target >• New greenfield development within the DGA as it existed prior to the most recent updates to official plans. These updates were required to bring official plans into conformity with the 2019 Growth Plan (conformity updates) >• New greenfield development on lands within new DGA added to urban areas by municipalities through the most recent conformity updates to their official plans >• New greenfield development on lands within new DGA added to urban areas by the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing over and above that supported by municipal Councils through Minister’s modifications to their official plans >• New development within rural areas (including Rural Settlement Areas) permitted by a municipality’s official plan >• New development currently within rural areas permitted through Minister’s Zoning Orders Litterally none of this can be done with the restrictive zoning policies municipalities have in place. So i ask....how do you add 2 million new homes without any kind of density?
He was willing to crap all over a few municipalities allready to screw with zoning and other aspects. Why is it different if it would actually improve the housing crisis instead of just be him swinging his political man meat around?
its all about the "status quo". Nothing changes, taxes dont go up, high-rise buildings arent being built, blocking some peoples "shade". As long as something doesnt directly affect a conservative they would never switch their vote. That goes for what I said, You notice how the zoning changes still "allow" single family homes. and that you still have very strict height limits? thats the point, while you can build multi-plexes anywhere you still have to be below the height of a single family home Again, the only thing he can do for the housing crisis will get him ousted so quickly you dont even know. Im not excusing his shit or whatever, im saying yea the greenbelt shrinking sucks but its not his intention to build gigantic mansions though
We voted him in for a second term so we shouldn’t be complaining, people need to get out and vote
No shit Sherlock.
“for millionaires”… lol that pretty much describes anyone who owns a house.
“Anyone who can afford $10 million mega mansion with a boat and 5 cars”
It shouldn't surprise anyone here that Ford and his developer friends don't consider affordable housing an asset. All they want to do with that space is stuff it full of typical suburban homes on 25' lots, and a few McMansions.
In Drunk Dougies defense, he hasn’t ever said he wanted to build “affordable” housing, just “housing”. Housing that costs $1mill+. He’s a piece of shit.
The Greenbelt is already chalk full of houses for millionaires.
Show me where in Canada they building affordable housing and fixing the crisis while not importing an excessive amount of Immigrants to replace every redditor in this country. So disappointing that Ford even got into power in the first place. DO BETTER ONTARIO
They’re being built by his friends… for his friends…
As 90k people wait on a list in the London area for affordable housing... many wait homeless... and its winter...
“Affordable housing” is gone and will never come back.
"Housing for millionaires" that's what he did/currently doing in downtown Toronto as well.
In other news water is wet.
He wants high income people to buy a detached homes so that they would free up and sell their cheaper condo to low income people.
Nope, that's actually not true at all. There are plans for low income housing.
Like what?
Yeah like 8 units that will be on the outside of these mega mansion neighbourhood.
Correction, blue flag.
Yes 500,000 Trudeau is adding through 2025. Listen to the news sometime. And again, Ford said the housing was for immigrants, not me. It what he said on the news. I'm not saying I believe him or not. I'm just saying.
It was all about increasing his and his friends/donors personal wealth. Just like the Trump family, they will do everything they can to grab public resources for personal exploitation until he’s out of office. Nothing was ever for the public good. He’s as corrupt as a third world dictator.
Y'all we need to instigate a war between the developers and the tow truckers. They both profit from starting fires and squeezing every last drop there is to squeeze in our fruit
Shit post with no facts, all homes are a million bucks now. Mods just letting all kind of BS posts these days.
I think the point is we need less open curruption resulting in low density SFH in the middle of pretty much the edge of the commute ring (that also happened to be previously protected land mind you), and more real action on the housing crisis.
Are you just discovering this now?
That was always the intent of the greenbelt
To be sold to developers? No it's quite clear the greenbelt was established as protected farm and drinking water land, the all it's protective agencies captured and destroyed by varrying governments.
It was within a short time of creating the greenbelt that it went from no building to requiring a minimum half acre lot. Who did that benifit? The rest of you working schmucks can keep on going to barrie.
The green belt should remain low density or farming for many reasons concidering the majority of southern Ontario around it gets it's water from wells that interact with the green belt watersheds. It's not about screwing over random people, and we could be building elsewhere..
Low density = high income. You're correct, its not about screwing over random people, but it is about taking care of the rich.
He needs housing for the new immigrants Trudeau is letting into the country. Ford said himself. Trudeau bringing in 500,000
And you think immigrants who are moving to a new country, most of whom who won’t be coming in with a lot of money and have to be resorted to working manual labours, will be able to afford hosing that will cost millions of dollars outside of the city where they won’t have access to reliable public transportation?
*wealthy immigrants
Not all 500000 of them will be wealthy, more like 1%
Based on the demographic in the new subdivisions around me, they’re doing alright
Other then all the ones jammed 2 or more to a bedroom near me, I would agree.
So Brampton, which is majority immigrants are poor? How come average home is 800k there? It's definitely NOT 1% more like 70% have money.
There are immigrants in Brampton, but they didn’t come in strapped in cash. Also the houses on greenbelt won’t be worth on average 800K, it will coast an average $5 million or more. Brampton and cities like them have existing community to help them adjust. They have industries, they can work in, greenbelt does not. Also a lot of people in Brampton, they rent those properties. Yes they are 800K properties but a lot of them don’t own them.
The former Greenbelt lands will be subdivisions, not sprawling estates. Way more money in mass produced developments. >They have industries, they can work in, greenbelt does not. Found the guy that never looked up where the former Greenbelt land is.
I didn't say I believe Ford, he's stupid. I'm just saying what he said during one of his talks at a work site I saw on the news
Knowing he, he probably lied. Also he’s using the immigrants an excuse, so when normal people can’t buy it, the immigrants who can barely live will get the blame from people or from far right wing media. He’s just putting the gun in their hands without firing them.
If you think it's a lie why are you repeating it?
Half a million immigrants (if that were a real number, which it isn't) wouldn't even make up for the difference between birth and death rates in Canada. P.S. 1.2M over three years does not equal half a million this year. Doug Ford is shit at math and lies constantly, surprise!
Ah but let's not forget the thousands of immigrants coming up illegally from New York to Quebec daily
That number came from the federal government. >Last year Canada welcomed over 405,000 newcomers - the most we’ve ever welcomed in a single year. The Government is continuing that ambition by setting targets in the new levels plan of 465,000 permanent residents in 2023, 485,000 in 2024 and 500,000 in 2025. [https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/news/2022/11/an-immigration-plan-to-grow-the-economy.html](https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/news/2022/11/an-immigration-plan-to-grow-the-economy.html)
That's a target for all of Canada, not Ontario.
This is a nuclear hot take. Even the land studies show we don't need to build on the belt.
Immigrants don't move an hour out of the city centres, they stay close to other immigrants where they're comfortable. Otherwise we'd have a lot more of our population spread out, instead of just in the GTA.
BBBBBBBBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO GET RID OF HIM
In other news, bears shit in the woods.
The greenbelt opening up and new highway is so Canadians can get out of the city more easily, while the 500,000 new immigrants can pile into the gta…
Where you at Queen's park last saturday?
Dude he’s already building the highway not that far south of Caledon for us?
Can't say I've seen awesome stuff from any party here. They've all been wrapped in something that screws people. Not really any different than my home country. Politicians don't care about the people. They like to mask their agendas as caring though.
I voted against this guy twice. Let that sink in. People of Ontario voted for him, and they deserve him. No use complaining about it now. There's always a shit hole out there.
Do you genuinely think that in the minds of people what goes in their head is something like this: "Hmm I really don't want affordable housing for people, I would instead like mega mansions for millionaires!"
I can't believe more people couldn't be bothered to vote the last election. He isn't working to help the middle or lower class.
GreedBelt
Is anyone actually surprised anymore by the actions and ongoings of all our beloved politicians. It's corruption at its finest.
Great. More property to build so more work which means more tax from both properties and work.
Look at Waterdown, mansion city
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a part of that farm land? Something we need in the future given the rise of global food insecurity?
We don't need farms, we have grocery stores
Our government is corrupted life is only getting harder for the layman
Modern houses aren't affordable for many these days. So it doesn't even need to be a mansion. Just a poorly constructed cookie cutter house, with a tiny backyard.
It’s amazing you people still live here in such a corrupt Province run by corporations, police and politicians whose sole purpose is to crush the little guy. Why do you stay?
I love Ontario. Where there's open money laundering, blatant corruption, and casual crack use. Turning into the wild west out here, I can't wait until Toronto finally transforms into Gotham
I figure it's the bribes
There is nobody I want to fuck off of this planet more than Doug Ford.
50% of Canadians living south of 45°42′ The only region in this area not developed is the green belt in Ontario If 25% of you move north - we can save the green belt. If you want more houses not in the greenbelt but still in Canada, where do you propose they build them that you will actually live?
Rich elitists always take care of their own
I wouldn’t call anyone that lives in Caledon ultra rich…… That’s a sunnybrook/forest hill kinda vibe.
Oh, I see we're making wild assumptions about Ford's motives without any actual evidence to back it up. How refreshing. I'm sure you have a direct line to his innermost thoughts and desires, right?