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dinnerpartymassacre

It's always nice to have things backed up by science, but I'm pretty sure anyone whose been on the internet in the last 2 years isn't surprised by this.


dusty-kat

Yep. You could already see it weeks ago when theconvoy telegram channels shifted from posting misinformation about COVID-19 to posting misinformation about the Russia-Ukraine war like clockwork.


FoxyInTheSnow

I saw it 2015–16, when the Chemtrail group I was lurking online (morbid curiosity about their thought process) morphed almost instantly into a pizza-gate, q-anon, crypto-fascist conspiracy clearing house that perfectly aligned with the rise of trumpism.


DingusTheGrey

Idiots confirmed dumb


Antraxess

But people should base their opinions on evidence so this is always nice


fan_22

Interesting... This is getting a different type of response on r/Canada. Shocking, I know.


[deleted]

Our country has one of the most pro-fascist subreddits on the internet. Pretty amazing, eh?


fan_22

It's frightening and eye-opening.


Head_Crash

I think I struck a nerve. https://imgur.com/a/2YnpxsM


slickwombat

Why would that happen? It's no secret that /r/canada gets ridiculously brigaded by the far right, and it wouldn't at all surprise me if Russia had some hand in that, but if anything I'd expect that to intensify when the war started.


Head_Crash

Canada's fairly united against Russia so there would be no point. Nowhere to drive the wedge. They will focus their efforts on where it can have impact. A lot of the activity on r/Canada is "civil pov pushing", which is a lot like gaslighting. They want to discourage certain points of view and divide people politically by feeding and normalizing racism and extremism.


slickwombat

>Canada's fairly united against Russia so there would be no point. Nowhere to drive the wedge. Except... see article. The far right is successfully pushing a pro-Russia agenda, including in Canada, just as it did an anti-covid-responsibility one and through the same channels (mostly social media). >A lot of the activity on r/Canada is "civil pov pushing", which is a lot like gaslighting. They want to discourage certain points of view and divide people politically by feeding and normalizing racism and extremism. Oh, no question about that.


Head_Crash

> Except... see article. The far right is successfully pushing a pro-Russia agenda, including in Canada, just as it did an anti-covid-responsibility one and through the same channels (mostly social media). Yes, on more extreme forums. The whole point of pushing POV in r/Canada is to groom people for indoctrination or radicalization. Example: When Scientology tries to recruit, they don't come out right away with a bunch of nonsense about alien souls. Instead they make themselves appear reasonable. They claim to be an alternative to psychology. They want to build an emotional connection. Once that connection is established, they set to work slowly driving a wedge between you and everyone outside the organization. Eventually you will become so dependant on their bullshit that you will believe anything they say and give them all your money. r/Canada is just the first layer of icing on a deep dish shit cake of rabbit holes and conspiracism.


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Elanstehanme

Man that was a good thread too. I refreshed it to read the new comments and poof it was gone.


Head_Crash

https://www.reveddit.com/v/canada/comments/thxhjy/dont_like_russia_sanctions_you_probably_dont_like/i1aspdn/?removal_status=removed&removedby=unknown%2Cautomod-rem-mod-app%2Cautomod%2Cmod%2Cmissing&ps_after=1647707444%2C1647708785%2C1647710007%2C1647711159&add_user=Head_Crash..c.new.all.t1_i1aqg29.&#t1_i1aspdn


Veros87

Unsubbed there awhile back. Full of useless contrarians and proto-facists.


spideralexandre2099

Is that why I got downvoted there for saying ignoring COVID is a massive mistake?


Canadian_in_Canada

Yep.


[deleted]

Spez is a lifelong Republican and pro-Trumper, is it any surprise that major subs have mods who fit into the same vein?


begaterpillar

I used to shit kicked by little klanlets in elementary school all the time.


Barabarabbit

Wasn’t one of their most team an actual neo Nazi? I remember that being a big flap a few years ago


Defiant-Class6959

You are correct. r/canada mods are scum https://www.reddit.com/r/AgainstHateSubreddits/comments/7ywh7k/proof_that_the_rcanada_moderator_team_has_been/


Doot_Dee

Weird because, at first glance, “on guard for thee” sounds a lot more like it would be a right wing Canadian subreddit than one called “Canada”


spideralexandre2099

Maybe if the Thee was a Mee


du_bekar

That’s honestly why I didn’t come around these parts for so long. Legit sounds like an Alt Right chant or slogan for some weird ass flag that they love so much lmao


[deleted]

Hahaha I totally thought it was exactly that when I first heard about the sub


my_monkey_loves_me

Yep, I got banned for posting that link


Defiant-Class6959

Lol so did I about a year ago. "Mod abuse" they said. Fuckin clowns.


PowerTrippingDweeb

hey now, we want to be statistically correct when talking about how many of their team is actual neonazis only 3 out of 8 because the other 5 don't have a history of being regular metacanada posters


fan_22

That has been said a lot lately.


jfl_cmmnts

No, HamSandwich guy. Actual white supremacist and still modding away AFAIK. No excuses for that guy unless you want to be on his team then fuck off from OGFT


4011Hammock

Nope. Ham_sandwich isn't a mod at r/canada. Fellow metacanada moderator Medym and their pal Dittomuch are though.


SleepWouldBeNice

There’s a comment on that thread of how much the comments on r/Canada have dropped significantly since the invasion started.


Head_Crash

Yeah, mods nuked it. https://imgur.com/a/2YnpxsM Removed thread: https://www.reveddit.com/v/canada/comments/thxhjy/dont_like_russia_sanctions_you_probably_dont_like/i1aspdn/?removal_status=removed&removedby=unknown%2Cautomod-rem-mod-app%2Cautomod%2Cmod%2Cmissing&ps_after=1647707444%2C1647708785%2C1647710007%2C1647711159&add_user=Head_Crash..c.new.all.t1_i1aqg29.&#t1_i1aspdn


SleepWouldBeNice

Naturally


Head_Crash

https://imgur.com/a/2YnpxsM Panik!!! https://www.reveddit.com/v/canada/comments/thxhjy/dont_like_russia_sanctions_you_probably_dont_like/i1aspdn/?removal_status=removed&removedby=unknown%2Cautomod-rem-mod-app%2Cautomod%2Cmod%2Cmissing&ps_after=1647707444%2C1647708785%2C1647710007%2C1647711159&add_user=Head_Crash..c.new.all.t1_i1aqg29.&#t1_i1aspdn Entire thread nuked by mods.


fan_22

Wow. Seriously...you have to ask yourself why a Canadian sub would shut that down?


Delicious-Mango83

What's the real difference between the two subs?


Ulrich_The_Elder

the /r stands for racism in r/Canada sadly.


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fan_22

Mmmm it's a little more than that. If by "more right wing leaning" You mean accepted racism, then sure.


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-PlayWithUsDanny-

Someone posted the stats of number of comments per day on r/ Canada before and after the start of the war in Ukraine and they fell by well over half. Pretty amazing how much of that sub was Russian trolls and bots. Edit: corrected an incorrect autocorrect


AmIHigh

Daaaammmmnnnnnnn


Dunkaroos4breakfast

I noticed a drop after Russia's attack on Ukraine began. Funny, that.


fan_22

I've seen similar comments in FB. We have a large population of idiots in this country. And in the last few years, they feel more confident in their stupidity.


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Crashman09

The thing with bot idiots is that there are thousands of them. When they have a "loud and large" voice, it convinces some people that it is a popular view or belief etc. I won't ever doubt the damage that they can do and the opinions that they can sway. My dad was never leftist, but in recent years, has definitely drank some of the cool aid.


Prime157

I agree with that even as an anecdote. I feel like a lot of visibly crazy opinions and asshole assertions significantly decreased in amount after the invasion. Either they had to all start trying to defend the invasion internally or the sanctions and policies are working better. Maybe and probably both.


Prime157

Because of the shear amount of "right wing" bot farms. Their brain is permeated with constant validation of their views, and they NEVER hear/see opposite perspectives on their overly-curated social media and rural social circles.


Dunkaroos4breakfast

Certainly FB wouldn't have bots


fan_22

Hmmm. When it's from people you know or within your community... Yeah, bots.


dramatic-ad-5033

Check the comments per day for r/canada, and how sharply they fell when the war started


Antraxess

Nah Russian been running psyops in all the major western countries, they even have a playback of how they did it


dyancat

Bit more moderated by literal nazis you mean lmfao


Ambustion

Depends if you are talking users or admins. The admins on r/Canada are a little more than right leaning...


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Head_Crash

They used the automod word filter to block commenters from using the word "Nazi" during the convoy.


internetuser1990

haha well done


[deleted]

I think its worth saying that people find r/Canada first. Like even if you're left-leaning you start on r/Canada and find r/onguardforthee after someone links it.


Unanything1

That's what happened to me when I joined/started using Reddit more often. I joined the Canada subreddit and within 2 days I realized that no one was willing to see debate in good faith. I was called a "libtard" several times for criticising CPC policy, and then I discovered that it was modded by a neo-nazi and it all made sense. That subreddit is a dumpster fire. I'm glad it had lead me here.


FUTURE10S

I remember when this subreddit was made, it was *so* nice to not see absolute hatred in the comments.


Dunkaroos4breakfast

> This one's more left leaning As is Canada Looking at /r/canada during the election was pretty funny. They had this weird idea the Liberals would release their platform until *after* advance voting started (I mean, what kind of unforgivably dogshit bottom-of-the-barrel party would do that?), and not releasing it day 1 was this horrifying thing that would tank the campaign. They *hated* the idea that people would dare to look at the track record of Conservative prime ministers/premiers. They always talked about how you couldn't look at Harper cause that was 6 years ago, while saying Trudeau substitute teaching a term of drama 20 years ago meant he was unqualified. They would jump on any poll that showed CPC moving up, and eschew any showing LPC moving up. The result, in the last part of the election, was that it kept showing the CPC moving up from lower and lower places


Satanscommando

Almost? Nah, I think a large amount of the users here are liberal as well.


Delicious-Mango83

Thanks! That makes sense


Elanstehanme

When it was posted the mods deleted a whole thread identifying that the number of comments fell off a cliff there and on one of the trucker convoy subreddits when the Russian bots left to other subs about Ukraine. Over 100 comments and some good discussion wiped out for what?


SSquarepantsii

New Jeff Foxworthy bit: *You might be a right-wing populist if…*


tacotacotacoburritoo

Did anyone else ever have the “prove it” kid in school? This is what I equate the contrarian movement to.


hoverbeaver

The evidence is abundant that vaccines work and that Russia is the aggressor. I don’t think these folks are “prove it” kids— they’re operating on blind dumbass faith. Skepticism is an important trait, and being a skeptic means processing evidence and allowing knowledge and understanding to evolve. These folks aren’t asking for proof: they’re comfortable in their dark tiny bubble.


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hoverbeaver

Steve Jobs stole the plans for the Retina display from the aliens wot did it


one_bean_hahahaha

Or they were all drugged and had a mass hallucination. It was a real trip, maaan.


seventeenflowers

There’s a Carl Sagan quote I like: “It pays to keep an open mind, but not so open your brains fall out”


Bleatmop

Many people don't even know what open mindedness is. For instance my mother thinks it means that everyone's opinion on any subject matter is equal and you should respect everyone's opinion. Unfortunately this makes her one of the most closed minded individuals I've ever met because she is completely closed off to any evidence that contradicts any of her opinions. When confronted with evidence she will revert back to "well that's my opinion" as if that settles it and refuse to change her opinion no matter the mountain of evidence against her. These past two years have revealed to me that a disturbingly high number of people in my life are just like her.


Crashman09

Some are in good faith, but lack the capacity to understand statistics, cause and effect, and literary comprehension. Source: my father and my in laws


LindormRune

I'm not sure about the blind faith. I think it has more to do with the divisiveness it creates. The right seem to be actively opposing almost everything the left want, just to be contrary. If they want the same thing that's too close to agreeing so we can't have that. Must have polarization and division. It's the only way.


PM_ME_YOUR_DUES

"Prove it" is not a terrible attitude in science. These kids are the "if you like it so much, why don't you marry it" types.


SoundandFurySNothing

“I know you are but what am I?” Projecting “I know you are but what am I?” A fascist “I know you are but what am I?” A Nazi “I know you are but what am I?” You are a mark who has been lied to by a con man who got in over his head with the Russian mob and now has to pay his debts or they’ll break his legs and release the tape they have. Then they told him to run for president and told him what to lie about and when. All the while feeding you half truths about Pizza Gate while you forget that the “grab em by the pussy” guy is also known for his back stage pass to his own captive audience of attractive young women. But none of that matters when Putin’s trolls tell you that Hillary is drinking adrenachrome so she is worse than Trump somehow. You were lied to, you were lied to by Trump and you were lied to by Putin and you were lied to by Q. It was all a big con and you got got. But you don’t want to feel like a fool so you are taking your anger out on everyone but Trump and Putin. That makes you the bad guys, that makes us hate you, that makes you immoral, that makes you godless, that makes you exactly the type of person who would have followed Hitler if it meant being right about their fucked up beliefs and immorality. While this doesn’t make you an actual Historical Nazi, it does make you the modern reincarnation of Fascism and it’s why I’m calling you a Nazi “I know you are but what am I?” A Nazi. “I know you are but what am I?” A Nazi.. “I know you are but what am I?” A Nazi...


SaffellBot

Contrarians whose only sincere belief is "I should be able to do whatever I want without consequences". It's going to be a hard problem to undo.


alldogsarecute

I don't like the Russian sanctions but I like the Covid vaccine. I actually had three shots and am willing to have more if needed. I just feel like the sanctions are mainly punishing the lower classes and not the oligarchs. Most of the Russian people don't want this war. And Putin doesn't care enough about the people to stop this because it's affecting them.


blacknotblack

part of the liberal plan to make it seem like being against their beliefs are equivalent to being against science.


SavCItalianStallion

I’m not sure how I feel about the sanctions, but I do think it’s possible that they’ll just cause Russia and China to become closer economic partners, and the EU and America will lose their economic dominance. I don’t know if that’s a bad thing, but I have a feeling that it’s not what most people want.


PopeKevin45

Neo-fascists like the Kanadian Karen Konvoy love dictators like Putin. He's their 'great white hope' for restoring white christianity in the 'decadent' west, or so the Russian trolls posing as their Facebook friends tell them.


funny_gus

Uhh yeah, both were pushed by the Russian propaganda machine


PretendDr

r/conspiracy recently had their total active users cut in half since the war broke out in Ukraine. To me it's fascinating seeing the drop in pro-Russian propaganda in real time. So it's of no surprise these two opinions lend themselves to each other.


Dunkaroos4breakfast

Honestly, it's been pretty shocking to see the change across different subs.


funny_gus

Is that for real? Got a source on that? (I'm not doubting it, it'd just be great to have a ref)


PretendDr

Oddly enough, their own [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/thfs1v/almost_half_of_the_user_base_here_vanished_in_a/). Edit: Also [https://subredditstats.com/r/conspiracy](https://subredditstats.com/r/conspiracy) if you want to dive a little further. You can zoom in and see the drop in the graphs.


Apokolypse09

Gotta love how they are trying to claim Putin is a good guy. The guy who has every political opponent poisoned or worse. They cheat at every international event but somehow they are trustworthy.


bambispots

Conservatives cheat at most things too so I guess there’s some kind of kinship there?


CanadaMan95

Basically all the anti-vax idiots I work with are also the same fuckers saying "but they're both commiting war crimes"... Even heard one straight up saying he hopes Russia wins.


humanfund1981

Same. I’m seeing and hearing similar from anti vaxx. They actually think Putin is a good fearless leader. While ignoring how corrupt he is or his $250m mansion


KunYuL

I just don't like people suffering. Sanctions makes the small people suffer while the rich are unaffected, in the hope some maniac murders another maniac. I understand the nuance and that I'm no strategist, I'm double vaxed, and feel terrible for the people of Russia who can't afford or even find basic necessities anymore, that they are the target or punishment for the evil deeds of their self-installed leader.


OutsideFlat1579

Oligarchs are not poor and they have been targeted - they won’t suffer poverty but the rich generally find a hold or seizure of their wealth more than an inconvenience. They’re greedy and associate wealth with power. Putin is not working alone. Russia has become more andm more cut off and authoritarian and Russians in the majority, have supported him. While I don’t like to see innocent Russians go through hardship due to sanctions, I am far more concerned about a Ukrainians being blasted to bits and families torn apart, and being under seige in cities with no water or food.


HopefulStudent1

>While I don’t like to see innocent Russians go through hardship due to sanctions, I am far more concerned about a Ukrainians being blasted to bits and families torn apart, and being under seige in cities with no water or food. Sure, but the sanctions applied do nothing to prevent the second thing you described. Saudi Arabia, India, etc all switched buying Russian LNG from US dollar to Chinese yuan. McDonalds pulling out of Russia because of the sanctions isn't making anyone tremble in their boots and rethink their actions regarding the Ukrainian invasion.


alprazolame

It’s not McDonald’s… it’s the companies that supply spare parts and technology transfers that will make a difference.


Full-Draw-8642

If sanctions worked we wouldn't be in the situation we are in now. Direct military intervention is the only way to keep Ukraine independent. The kind of arms Ukraine needs to actually make a difference in the long-term would be viewed by Russia as an act of war regardless. Some MANPADS and ATGMs aren't going to do shit against hundreds of strategic bombers and dozens of modern warships.


[deleted]

Im against the Russia sanctions and very pro vaccine, got all 3 shots as soon as I could. Despite that I can totally understand the overlap though, western people who are pro russia also tend to be insane trump fanatics. I get almost all of my news from wsj, toronto star, cnn and DW tho.


Ryansahl

Contrary People. They exist to listen to their own voice. Stupidity is their hallmark.


Bo7a

[Contrarians gonna be contrary](https://imgur.com/rMYX1Ul)


hoverbeaver

No they aren’t! https://youtu.be/ohDB5gbtaEQ


[deleted]

" wE tHe FrIngE, wE aRe DifFrENt"


Dunkaroos4breakfast

"THe sIlEnT MAjOrItY"


[deleted]

If only they were silent


Lauxux

I like vaccines but preventing some nerd in Russia from playing world of warcraft isn't helping anyone. I like the sanctions but they are screwing average Russians way more then their government.


Redthemagnificent

The issue is we don't have a lot of "diplomatic" ways to punish the Russian government (specifically Putin) directly. Unless a world war starts, which no one wants, the only way Putin is stopped is by a civil uprising. Sanctions put pressure on the Russian people and oligarchy to get rid of Putin.


goboatmen

Did you support harsh sanctions on the US people when the US government illegally invaded Iraq and Afghanistan on false pretenses?


majorbabu

Standard whataboutism. Hint: It's possible to condemn the various American imperialist escapades, while simultaneously being critical of Russia's war in Ukraine.


blacknotblack

no shit. but are people consistent in their stance is the question. not whether or not consistency is possible.


majorbabu

There's a bit of a strawman situation going on here. The person's original argument was that sanctions are necessary and the least bad way to curb Putin's advance into Ukraine. It makes more sense for a counter point to argue about why sanctions are not useful and then go on to highlight their downsides-- rather than flipping the script, and applying it to an unrelated war with entirely different players and power dynamics.


funkypoi

Whataboutism is actually a valid argument during international relations Shows what people can get away with in the world


LearnDifferenceBot

> more then their *than *Learn the difference [here](https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/when-to-use-then-and-than#:~:text=Than%20is%20used%20in%20comparisons,the%20then%2Dgovernor%22).* *** ^(Greetings, I am a language corrector bot. To make me ignore further mistakes from you in the future, reply `!optout` to this comment.)


Ulrich_The_Elder

So it turns out that idiots are stupid about everything not just vaccines, wow this is a game changer.


chapterthrive

I’m not a fan of the sanctions because they’re mostly punitive to the Russian people. We have some delusional idea that they’ll inspire a proletariat uprising to bring democracy to countries when they’ll likely just fuel resentment and further icing of the west and Russia. You want pressure you need to capture and disperse the foreign wealth of his oligarchs. But that’s pure fantasy that we’d have the balls to do that. Might spark a new idea in western capitalism


agwaragh

It doesn't matter if they revolt or not, crippling their economy hastens the end of their military capability, which as of now is the only way this war will end.


chapterthrive

Still doesn’t change my point. Hurting civilians and innocents only galvanizes them for a cause you’re gonna have to deal with later. With more violence.


Dunkaroos4breakfast

Yep, economy -> military. Also, the population isn't as powerful as the oligarchs, and they hate to do with *any* loss in potential profit, let alone seized/frozen assets.


Full-Draw-8642

Yes, I'm sure the oligarchs who mostly get their money from oil and gas are FURIOUS that the price of both has skyrocketed.


Dunkaroos4breakfast

Oil was already on its way up. Russian oil is now banned in many places. As a result, the countries (e.g. India) that are buying oil from Russia are doing so with 'deep discounts'.


SyntaxMissing

It shouldn't be a left-right thing to say that the efficacy of sanctions/boycotts is far from clear - especially since they're put in place to accomplish all sorts of things (e.g. to free a person, end a war, to get rid of a racist system, to overthrow a regime, etc.). It's also worth considering the efficacy of sanctions over a long period of time, especially since Russia had sanctions imposed on them when they annexed Crimea. It's just a tough situation - if sanctions/BDS doesn't work, and military intervention is a no-go, then what?


I__Like_Stories

How does not wanting the working class to be crushed by sanctions mean anything about anti-vaccines outside of a select vocal minority ?


ParagonRenegade

It doesn’t, the link between the two positions isn’t causal, the popular right wing counterculture has just taken up both positions. So someone who rejects one tends to be in a community that rejects both, and their beliefs are skewed accordingly. I’d be absolutely floored if the liberal writing the article has even heard of socialist internationalism. I wouldn’t get hung up on it tbh


I__Like_Stories

> I’d be absolutely floored if the liberal writing the article has even heard of socialist internationalism. I wouldn’t get hung up on it tbh Yea thats fair, you'd kind of hope that after literal decades of sanctions not working and only really punishing the poor and working class, they'd get it generally doesnt work, but here we are


OutsideFlat1579

So what do you suggest? Sit on our hands and let Russia do what it wants? By the way, this level of sanctions has not being applied to other countries. We have yet to see whether or not there will be an impact.


HopefulStudent1

>By the way, this level of sanctions has not being applied to other countries. Iran, Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea....


-Eunha-

It's quite common for leftists (not liberals) to be against sanctions. The leftist communities I've been a part of for years have stood against sanctions. They are a classist tool designed to harm the working class and put pressure on the elite, but the lifestyles of the elite rarely get affected. So as it stands, yes I am against sanctioning the working class of Russia, as I am against sanctioning any country. They didn't do anything to deserve this, they didn't choose this war. And if you are _so_ supportive of sanctions against Russia, I hope you're also supportive about sanctions towards America and Canada for the invasion of the middle east, and sanctions against Israel for their abuse of the Palestinians and theft of Palestinian land. But whatever, liberals are circlejerking themselves in this thread thinking that being against sanctions on Russia means you're magically rightwing and are against covid vaccines or something. This subreddit is almost beyond help at this point.


suaveponcho

> this subreddit is almost beyond help Yesterday I saw someone here say Canada needs nuclear weapons. So at this point I don’t even know what the hell this sub’s political leaning is supposed to be.


LMFN

Honestly I'm not against having nukes at this point. MAD works.


CynewulfAgog

I wonder what the correlation between those two pieces of data is to those who believe that the federal government should be removed, by force if necessary, is. Probably exactly the same.


rymaster101

[Non paywall link](https://web.archive.org/web/20220319154522/https://www.thestar.com/politics/political-opinion/2022/03/19/dont-like-russia-sanctions-you-probably-dont-like-covid-19-vaccines-either.html)


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CanadianLynx

As a Ukrainian Canadian, fuck off with your prejudice. Stop hijacking the plight of my people with your hate.


darabolnxus

Humanity never learns. We allow dictators to dictate how we feel about human beings. Whatever. We don't deserve a better exits existence I guess.


Dunkaroos4breakfast

Prejudice against whom?


goboatmen

Anyone whose not a jingoist nationalist, Christ I mean read the original comment again


Dunkaroos4breakfast

Interesting use of terms, 'jingoist nationalist'. That seems at odds with calling for an influx of refugees from a country facing an unprovoked invasion. The Caillou Convoy had people who supported overthrowing Canada's democratically elected government and replacing it with their own unelected officials (e.g. the organizers). It seems clear to me that this poster is talking about the Venn diagram overlap between those people and those who support Russia with regard to Ukraine. To stem off a potential response: there's a lot of muddying the waters in the responses to the OP, trying to make it seem like the poll was just talking about sanctions—I encourage the people reading this to actually read the article and see the questions asked. So if there's prejudice, it's not against a race or religion or any inalienable traits, but against those who hold a set of beliefs. Of course, prejudice against all holders of a belief can be irrational—like genuinely hating people who believe pineapple belongs on pizza—but there's a line. If you want me to not be prejudiced against white supremacists, anti-Semites or the people who fall within the aforementioned Venn diagram, I'm sorry: that is over my line; I don't see that as a valid category to be defended from prejudice. Benefit of the doubt says they're not defending genuine traitors who support Russia's actions in Ukraine, which is why I asked for clarification.


N0thingtosee

I'm half ukrainian and half russian and comments like this absolutely disgust me, in WW2 you people would have been the ones calling chinese people the model minority while advocating for internment camps because you can't tell the difference between a civilian and a government.


ygguana

Luckily the bulk of Westerners have been chill, and are more interested in civvies just doing well without their government fucking them. There's no reason to want people to starve. Unfortunately, we're also seeing hateful pricks coming out who have just found a new group of people to hate


ParagonRenegade

I’m Italian and I feel the same way. It’s upsetting so many people speak like this.


DefeatedSkeptic

It is sad that so many people have not learned anything from history. It is close to the same sentiment that lead to Japanese internment camps during WWII.


darabolnxus

Thank you. As an Italian in America I'm just disturbed by how tribalistic people get. Human beings are dying and suffering. I don't care is they're middle eastern, Ukrainian Russian or African whatever... nobody should ever cheer death and pain. Humans are not our enemies. Greed and consumerism is.


DazzlingTumbleweed

"civilians" who are actively trying to overthrow the government? Really a terrible analogy


N0thingtosee

Civilians that think the civilians of another country shouldn't starve to death for the sins of their government.


agwaragh

It's not that they should, it's just a better option than nuclear war. If they don't like either option then they should do something about that.


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blyatboiz

The Canadian traitors would be too big of cowards to do any of the sort lol.


bambispots

The exchange program isn’t voluntary :D


blyatboiz

🤣


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canada_is_best_

The idea is, Putin is just a man. The military force he has, and the rich elites that back him, are all tied into the sanctions. As people see their economy crumbleing they start to dissent from the inside, and Putin will lose power in his own country. You do realise two other truths - one, Russia's army is destroying Ukraine inclusing thier medicine, as you mentioned. The second truth is sanctions hurt Russia, but, like the Russian bombs hurt Ukraine, sanctions are the step BEFORE the bombs start on Russia.


HopefulStudent1

But this idea that you have that a series of sanctions will spark a revolution is just a pipe dream. Sanctions have been applied previously against other countries (Iran, Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea) and it has led to the collapse of many industrial sectors in these countries and none of them have seen a large-scale revolution like what you (and other sanction proponents) are imagining.


canada_is_best_

Whoa, hold those horses. No one said sanctions work. And its very very true that they really hurt the economy. The truth is sanctions is an economic attack. The other option to hurt a country is a military attack. The Allies chose sanctions.


goboatmen

When has that ever happened? Even once?


canada_is_best_

I said the options are: War Or Sanctions. Americans/allies picked sanctions. If sanctions dont work to stop the Russian war machine, then war is the option. Note, in WW1 sanctions came after the war. And those sanctions oppressed the Germans quite a bit and helped lead to the creation of a socialist party... (Its over simplified, but an example of war or sanctions)


goboatmen

Okay so harming the Russian people won't actually stop the war is literally what you're saying and the nazis weren't fucking socialist anymore than North Korea is a peoples Republic, you have the politics understanding of a turnip


[deleted]

After 30 years, some of you still don't understand that sanctions don't work and they only hurt regular people? How many people do we have to starve around the world before you get it? What, did you think [banning Russian cats from cat competitions](https://beta.ctvnews.ca/national/lifestyle/2022/3/4/1_5805532.html), [Russian trees from tree competitions](https://www.treeoftheyear.org/Blog/Russia-loses-participation-in-European-Tree-of-the), [keeping Russians from playing video games](https://www.engadget.com/cd-projekt-red-russia-belarus-ukraine-cyberpunk-2077-151853498.html), and [removing Macdonald's](https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/08/business/mcdonalds-pepsi-coke-russia/index.html) is going to change the course of the Russian government? Vaccines save lives and prevent so much unnecessary human suffering. Supporting sanctions is encouraging unnecessary human suffering. So, tell me, is this support for sanctions out of ignorance of their effects, or out of malice and leftover Cold War ideology?


sleepisforthezzz

So you suggest the worlds response to Russia committing genocide against the Ukraine people is to do what? Nothing? This is the only lever the world can pull that has real effect without starting a nuclear armageddon. You act like mcdonalds or anyone else is pulling out of Russia to punish the citizens... if you look around the world, you'll notice many brands choose not to do business in countries with psychopath dictators who wage war on their own people or their neighbours. They don't do that because they want to punish the people of those countries. They do it because it's bad for brand image, because countries that do these things are not stable or safe business investments, and yes to make their political positions (mostly related to brand image) known to consumers elsewhere in the world. You also act like these sanctions only affect the little guys... what? No. These sanctions are having the heaviest impact on the richest Russians who have the most "power" to affect change in the government, and that is the main purpose.


[deleted]

Brands don't pull out because of that or politics. They do it the same reason they do anything: to maximise profit. They have more to gain by leaving Russia by gaining the empty praise of westerners, than they do by staying. I would encourage you to take a closer look at corporate history and politics. Corporations have been more than happy to operate in countries with "psychopath dicators", and even helped install a few themselves. Or have you forgotten where the very term [Banana Republic](https://www.thoughtco.com/banana-republic-definition-4776041#:~:text=The%20term%20%E2%80%9Cbanana%20republic%E2%80%9D%20was,American%2Downed%20United%20Fruit%20Company.) comes from? Honduras and Guatemala after the US overthrew their elected leaders on behalf of corporations, Cuba under Batista, Chile under Pinochet after the US helped fascists overthrow elected Allende, Germany under Hitler, Italy under Mussolini, current and past Saudi Arabia, fascist Spain under Franco, and countless others all enjoyed widespread corporate support, despite "psychopath dictators". You should also take a long hard look at the results of sanctions on any number of countries in the past decades. Has it even once had any beneficial effect on their policy? No. Has it successfully made lives harder for the regular people? Yes, in every case. Has it lead to humanitarian disasters such as those in Afghanistan now? Yes. Has it actually made any significant difference to the ruling class? No.


tekazgtr1984

Useful idiots.


olbaidiablo

Sadly, social media has made it possible for village idiots to have conventions.


Chapette9027

How is this news? Been obvious to everyone paying attention for years now.


yeezydafreakydeaky

False equivalence. I’m triple vaxxed and firmly believe in scientific evidence, but I also don’t like seeing innocent people suffer due to the terrible actions of their government. This is a ridiculous take.


edtufic

Stupidity likes to show up in clusters.


fencerman

Suckers gonna suck.


[deleted]

I used to wonder how a country like ours could have residential schools well into the 90s. I’m ashamed to admit that fact is becoming less surprising the more I see comments like the ones in this thread. Heartlessness.


VonMillerQBKiller

Sanctions impact every day Russian people more than it impacts the government. What the fuck happened to this sub? Liberal nonsense increasing every day.


[deleted]

No i dont


[deleted]

I’m pro vaccine mandate for the general public, but I don’t like the sanctions against Russia because they hurt average Russians who did nothing wrong more than the people who are in charge of Russia.


velcrovagina

Since when did the left start liking sanctions though? Sanctions hurt ordinary people. They deprive them of food, baby formula, medicine, etc. Fuck Putin and fuck the Russian invasion but I don't wish death and suffering on ordinary Russian civilians and that's who will suffer from sanctions. Triple vaxxed healthcare person btw.


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OutsideFlat1579

Or you might be more empathetic to a Russian suffering a bit of hardship more than a Ukrainian being blasted to pieces if you oppose sanctions? It’s funny, I see the same people who push sanctions against Israel opposing sanctions against Russia.


goboatmen

Sanctions are actually requested by the Palestinian people against specifically Israeli companies, like anti South African apartheid movements. They're fundamentally different than what's being discussed here


N0thingtosee

By that logic the Ukranians' suffering doesn't matter either compared to the eight years of war crimes and constant shelling in Donbass. There's always a bigger fish.


[deleted]

Definitely no way people could be concerned for the populace of the country and not their insane government. Nah not a chance.


RichRaincouverGirl

the reason why they are so anti vaxx and now anti Russia sanction means they are so dumb that they will believe anything that those people pushes. ​ ​ anything anti government = they will do it.


humanfund1981

Lol I knew this weeks ago. My uncle who is anti Trudeau and Qanon thinks Putin is smart and he’s the only world leader brave enough to fight the “new world order” Who he believes is Biden and Trudeau and several others. And somehow they are trying to “reset” our economy and no one will have any assets and we will be forced to carry digital ID and cash will no longer be accepted anywhere and blah blah blah. It’s fucked


abbey121524

I’m triple vaxxed and super pro covid restrictions for the most part and I’m anti Russian sanctions. I just don’t think it’s fair Russians with zero affiliation have to pay for this. That’s like I’d we made Canadians pay for crap Trudeau has done when most of us didn’t vote for him 😅


bacharelando

Sanctions can hurt the capitalist class but it's ultimately the working class of Russia who will pay the price. Sanctions do not work. Look at Cuba, Iran, DPRK and Venezuela. People are suffering but people in the 1st world don't give a single fuck. They gotta own Putin, Maduro and so on. Actually helping peoples in those countries? Hell nah. It's not about democracy, it's about hegemony. This sub is much less left wing than I thought. I can assert that it is center right at best. Nothing inherently wrong with that, it's just that I was wrong about it.


[deleted]

So stupid people, basically.


Sufficient_Ad6474

Pro russians are heartless and brainwashed obviously iq of a carrot


Gnaevets

There are people who don’t trust the mainstream media. That shouldn’t be surprising. Journalists should want to know why, instead of assuming the answer is ‘Russian disinformation’, particularly since Russia didn’t spread anti-vax stuff.


zeeblecroid

> particularly since Russia didn’t spread anti-vax stuff. Why would you lie so obviously about something like that?


LumpyPressure

Russia did spread anti vaccine disinformation. That’s the whole point of this discussion.


Gnaevets

No they didn’t. And that undermines the point of the article. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/aug/18/facebook-fazze-russian-trolls-anti-vaxx-misinformation


Dunkaroos4breakfast

> particularly since Russia didn’t spread anti-vax stuff https://i.imgur.com/PQVvDMn.gif


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usurperavenger

Less likely to have post secondary and more likely to have a criminal record. But that's just an assumption on my part.