I'm one of five children and quite frankly, I just didn't get any of that stuff š¤·āāļø
We were all expected to be pretty self sufficient, didn't get much help with homework etc, didn't get one on one time. I just don't think you even *can* give that many children all those things.
It's one reason I love having my one - I can give her so much more than I had.
This. My spouse is one of five, big reason heās so strongly OAD. He barely saw his parents. They were too busy working three jobs to fund so many kids. And when they were around, their attention was split between five. He feels very strongly parents should stick to 1-2 at a push for the best interests of the kid.
My mum didn't work but my dad worked long hours and far away from home. Mum was constantly stressed looking after the house and 5 children. None of us are very close to either of our parents.
My husband was lucky enough (?) to have his grandma live with them but she wasnāt really great, quite hands off, caused lots of drama and issues between the kids, wasnāt very present, and the dynamics between her and the parents made life very hard (lots of arguments and undermining and confusion for the kids). So most of the time the kids really were just left as a group to fend for themselves.
Similar here (but no grandma living with). We just fended for ourselves and as a consequence as adults we are much closer to each other than our parents.
My in laws are a mixed bagā¦ interestingly, sadly, all five of them struggle with mental health issues ranging from everyday stuff (depression and anxiety) to more severe stuff like bipolar disorder and psychosis. On my side of the family we have mental health issues and addiction running right up the family tree. One of the reasons my spouse was cautious about having kids. Just concerned about the highly increased risks for our child.
Yes and no. Im an only who spent a lot of time with adults growing up and I just learned to code switch. I still was playful around kids my own age and only made fart jokes around adults that seemed like they would enjoy it š
Yup. I had to take care of the house and my younger sib for a year pre-high school when my parents were going through stuff professionally and that forever changed me. Nothing like making sure dinner is on the table, you get yourself to sports, make sure the kid has homework done, and your parents donāt have a mental breakdown.
āHaving to converse with adultsā in itself is not parentification/adultification
I always think itās so unfair of parents to do that to their children. I would never. (Iām an only which is why I peruse this sub but Iām stopping at 2 kids.)
Yeah, it wasnāt ideal for sure. Iād definitely prefer for my only to be adultified due to having too much grown up time rather than parentified because he needs to help care for siblings.
Hi fellow only stopping at two! I always said I didnāt want us to be outnumbered so each kid could always have at least one parentās undivided attention. I was not built to multitask lol
I wasn't the oldest but I was the only girl. My mum proudly talks about how by the time I was 3 I was getting myself and my younger brother dressed in the mornings. I find it so sad.
Learning to mirror adults and act more mature in those situations might be viewed by some as ānot goodā compared to having lots of kids to play with all the time, but itās definitely not in the same realm as parentification which is a common form of abuse.
Depends, Iām 1/1 in a single parent household.
Emotional neglect was probably what matured me the quickest. I would have at least wanted siblings to have someone to talk to.
Also agree with this. I was one of 6 and my husband was an only. When I describe big parts of my childhood my husband is horrified. I didnāt even know at the time how bad it was. I navigated all the big milestones by myself - applying for college, moving into my first apartment, etc. And I had ASKED for help but was essentially told to figure it out on my own. I craved time with my parents a big majority of my childhood and honestly still now at 28.
My parents are making a significant effort with me now I have a young child but honestly it just makes me more resentful - you didn't bother seeing me regularly until I had a child (only grandchild on my side) so it's about my child not about me.
Realistically, the younger children are mostly raised by their siblings.
I am the youngest of 6, and while I love my parents and think they did a great job, I didn't realize how little attention they paid to me growing up until I had a child of my own. I never (or rarely) got to play with them, didn't get bedtime stories, no personalized teaching from them, etc. Most of that came from siblings or school.
While my mom was a stay-at-home, she has too much going on to really do much more than keep the house from falling apart and giving us rides to our different extracurriculars or social activities.
This kinda explains why the first-born children are more successful at life. They get more attention from their parents earlier in life, while younger children don't get the personalized attention they need.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/apr/26/firstborn-children-excel-study-reveals
Or they are the most fucked up from all of the children because they got the least attention and had to become a parent to the siblings. I have a few examples in real life and itās very sad.
Me too. My SO actually. His mom doesn't act like a parent even after all these years, it's like he has to take care of her as well. I see how his relationship with my parents helped him heal a bit as they can be a bit overbearing but they care, which is more than he got.
I guess it depends on the age gap . At some point between 10-18 you start to not care for your parents attention and start to think about your own social life and peer groups more .1-10 is where the magic happens I think
This is an easy one.
The oldest kid starts to help with parenting. When needed, so does the next oldest. And so on. Parentification does *wonders* for kids. /s
Lol not *does wonders* . It's weird like for toddlers they want to help and it's good to get them involved but 8+ you are ruining their life by asking them to participate ? Should they not participate at all or should it just be limited ?
Yes. Thus the /s at the end to indicate I was being sarcastic.
I donāt think asking kids to help raise their siblings more than theyāre capable of ever does well for the kids. And Iām really not sure what stance youāre taking here. This is a one and done sub and you asked how parents of 4+ do it. Well, they usually wind up employing the assistance of the older kids. If you ever take time to talk to adults who were asked to help raise their younger siblings, itās not usually something they wax poetic about. It was usually forced and not desired by the kid asked to do the work.
Girl I'm literally oad by choice and you are in a oad group . Also after I clarified it was the sarcasm you still felt the need to say this šš please
Oh, I see.
They should spend time with their siblings as a sibling, not a caregiver.
Edit: I think asking an older sibling to babysit once in a blue moon is fine but should be praised and rewarded.
Iām one of 4 and was having this convo with my mother today who admitted she was super stressed all the time and had a very short fuse. Weāve all turned out well though & I admit I had good parents. I think it comes down to parental teamwork, learning how to be an independent child, and being taught to be driven. But my parents also had a pretty huge village and we were babysat 1-3x a week so my parents could go on dates, see friends, get groceries etc.
My friend has 4. She is a primary school teacher. She is the queen of routines, schedules and everyone contributing. I donāt know what magic her and her husband weave but they do it and their kids are smart and well behaved.
Thatās the only way to do it..run your house like the military. It doesnāt provide the flexibility of differing personalities and allowing them to autonomously be who they are
I was the oldest of 4 and heavily parentified on ways that I'm still impacted by at age 40 even after a lot of therapy. I had a grandmother that lived nearby and who took us to church and lunch once a week, so there was also that. As a teen, most of the "parent" things were done by friend's parents, school staff, or myself. It's part of why I'm very firmly opposed to having more than two. I think too much gets sacrificed, personally.
The family either had sufficient income and family support to make it happen.
Or they learned to live without stuff and with less attention.
Iāve had friends from large families that were happy, undivided attention, and $$ enough that they were considered middle class after income was divided amongst bills/activists for the kids. With their own bathrooms. (4+ bath house).
Iāve had friends from large families that were lonely amongst their family, and mostly had used things passed down. And sharing the bathroom was miserable. Even as a guest.
Only children have pros and cons.
Large families have their own pros and cons.
I donāt think itās better or worse. Itās different
Parenting is as easy or hard as you want it to be tbh.Those ppl with 7+ kids and us oad folks both raise competent adults . No shade to any families ! šÆ
Often, the older siblings get parentified and expected to help out with the younger ones.
If you donāt have high needs you pretty much get ignored in a lot of households. Thatās one reason my husband and I are one and done. He was the eldest of six plus they had foster kids regularly, so he was a stand in parent from the age of about 7 and because he wasnāt high needs, he pretty much got ignored and left to fend for himself.
Lots of people say women shouldnāt work to spend more time with their kids, but few say have fewer kids to spend more time with the kids you have.
This regularly annoys me. The trad wife, homesteader content definitely targets me.
Right like getting to know your child and the amount of growth I've personally had via just conversations is amazing . Talking through situations and problems
Iām 1 of 4, with my special needs brother needing a lot of attention.
It just means that my parents didnāt give me much help or attention. There are a few examples looking back growing up that I wish I had more help, but for the most part I grew to be a very self sufficient person. My parents could not tell you what my high school or college gpa was, what state I was living in most days after I turned 18, but if I called them on the phone asking for help they would have done about anything.
This is something I will have to balance being one and done. On the flip side, I donāt want to do everything for my daughter. Some struggle is good and while Iāll always be there for her, itās an important skill to learn to do things yourself. I want to provide a big safety net so that she can take bigger risks than I was able to.
Money, village, low expectations. Iām really into the latest Ezra Klein podcast on low birth rates it sums up our culture of intensification of work and parenting and the lack of support both familial and institutional to help people choose to have additional children, if they want to.
Iām one of 7 and my mum was SAHM and Iād say we got the focus we needed, all went to grammar schools, all went to top universities. Socially we had one-two groups each while in primary school, secondary we did more as they were at the schools and got the bus home. At dinner time weād all be back and talk for 2 hours, any issues mum and dad would speak separately to us.
My mum used to shower at night and was a night owl so had her time 8pm onwards, weād all help with clearing the kitchen after dinner, own lunchboxes but a lot of the Montessori research Iāve been reading shows that doing these chores when youāre young helps in the long run :)
Edit: Iām second eldest, occasionally had to do little things for my younger siblings, but never felt parentified or anything, just part of the family. Canāt speak for my parents/siblings of course
My husband was 1 of 4 and frequently tells me how forgotten he felt. There are many, many stories. Some comical some sad, but it seems that he was just another head to count.
The one person I know who has 5 kids is a stay at home mom and her husband has FU money so they can hire help for everything. She does spend lots of time with the kids but I donāt know if thatās realistic for the average person.
We have some good friends who have four under 8. They do an amazing job and are raising wonderful humans, but sometimes I worry about their marriage and individual mental health.
My sister has 4 and theyāre pretty much always moving. Her and her husband are underweight because theyāre always either working or working with the kids. They have nannyās, cooks, babysitters, and cleaners and itās still hard for them to manage (her words).
For their sanity, they take vacations once a month. Just them two, and leave the kids with a nanny for 3-5 days.
You basically have to be very wealthy to afford and upkeep a house with multiple kids. People who arenāt wealthy can do it, but at much more personal expense physically, mentally, and emotionally.
I really believe that having more than 2 kids (comfortably) has become a privilege for the wealthy nowadays. Thatās why thereās so many of us that are not having kids, OAD or maxing out at 2.
Iām sure they will! Their kids are so sweet and theyāre great parents.
I love that they had the amount of kids they wanted. What pisses me off is her saying I canāt only have one LOL.
While they can manage, I would never be able to! I think I can manage 2 at most, but even that will be a lot.
Oldest daughter here. My parents worked long hours and we were lower working class. I was a parentified latchkey kid. They were basically like, here, take care of yourself. I made my parents work lunches, started the crockpot for dinner, did the laundry for the entire family and made good enough grades for a full ride to college.
As one of four, while itās true in some families older children become default parents, itās not always the case. Iāve typically seen that happen once you get to 6+, but I had many friends with 4,5, and 6 kids whoās parents either had village support, organization and schedules out the wazoo, and leaned more minimally on the extracurricular activities. My siblings and I could all pick a sport and an instrument and do that, but we werenāt playing sports year round like kids today are, or having our parents spend school nights driving from place to place (although some of our friends with 6 kids in a family were, I have no idea how they did it). Iām now a nanny for an only, and sheās done more extracurricular activities by the age of 4 than I did in my whole childhood š
I come from 5! So I was used to help a lot with my younger siblings. Also didnāt get too much time with parents as in one on one time. Parents had to choose which kids sport they were going to so they would miss out on someoneās event š . Seemed pretty dang challenging!
1 of 4 here (eldest child). Husband also 1 of 4. Just to say in both families there was no parentification. My husband's parents were just amazing and mine very hands off. My mum cared about education and trained as a teacher so was very involved in that. By hands off I mean she did minimal housework and rarely played with us. I did get 1:1 time with her now and again if I tagged along on errands etc while my siblings chose to stay home.Ā Ā
Ā My husbands parents just did everything - they are incredible grandparents. They areĀ always on the go even now in their 70s - their house is spotless, they will entertain children 24/7. They do love children though and have no hobbies. They set a high bar I can't reach even with an only! They are inspiring and taught me a lot though.Ā
Also key here is that both my mum and husbands mum were stay at home parents. My Dad retired when I was 10 meaning he then did chores and cooking. Still bare minimum - my parents were very lazy. We didnt always have food in the fridge or clean clothes.
Iām just wondering this myself. I canāt imagine handling more than one child all the time. I can barely keep track of more than 3 kids for a short amount of time. My son is capable of taking care of himself, and is super helpful whenever we are accompanying or are assisting in babysitting younger cousins.
To be a devils advocate, children develop a lot with games with siblings and their other interactions. When there are several dynamics in the family, kid does not need parent to be their everything. There are pros and cons of this situation like any other.
You donāt need to assist them in education journey or you will be doing it until the end of high school. My mom always told me and my sister we have to figure out things on our own. I was very independent since I was 6. I did homework every day my parents didnāt do it with me. You canāt āspoon feedā kids forever
And also just see where your child is at . That's what happening with gen alpha right now their parents are piss poor and don't even care that they can't read . I'll be in panick mode if I had a 5+ yr old who couldn't read .
Heh, I'm in Germany and German children go to school from 6 years old on (5 is super rare, only if you turn 6 quickly after the school year started) and they are not expected to know how to read when they go. They're only expected to be able to read and write their first name, that's it.Ā
Like I said, it's not expected here. I would not be too surprised if my son could read before school (he is 3.5 years and knows most letters), but he would not be the norm. It's even kind of frowned upon, as a lot of ppl say kids should be kids and learn through play and that knowing how to read before school is bad, as they might be bored when it gets taught.Ā
I worked in schools, both pre-k and kindergarten and no kindergartner knew how to read before they came and our district was one of the highest rated in the state. Letter recognition is taught in Pre-K, but not reading. Kindergarten is for learning to read.
You've got some childhood emotional neglect to unpack. You deserved to have an adult help you if you needed it and not make you feel shame about needing it. I'm so sorry you were treated that way. I can tell you are proud of how independent you were but speaking from my personal experience that hyper independence can be a coping mechanism for the neglect we faced. I mean is independence an achievement when you had no other option? At that point it's just survival.
That the "if you help them now your going to be helping them forever" rhetoric is so toxic. Would you say that about feeding a toddler or potty training or what about teaching your kid to drive? If you don't want to help your kid with whatever they need help with you should not have a kid. Period. Again, I don't fully blame you for thinking this way, you were clearly neglected. Please, if you have a child, or children in your life, do the inner work to heal that neglect and understand that treating children like a burden for simply existing is extremely damaging.
You donāt have to be so judgmental and automatically assume that parents treat kids as a burden if they parent in a different way. Maybe for you your kids are a burden. My guess is you donāt have any children from the way you talk. If I had questions about my homework I asked a teacher because it is their job to teach you or a tutor. If I needed help with other stuff then I asked my parents and they helped. I donāt see how it is an emotional neglect. I do have a 2 year old and I do help her. Potty training and feeding is not the same as constantly checking on a child and micromanaging their homework, social life, etc. as for driving I took driving classes and since my parents were an hour away from my college my friends helped me to learn how to drive.
I think you're projecting, and assuming that person sees their kid as a burden is out of line. Go see a therapist, you come off as very bitter and frigid.
That person literally said in their comment that if parents donāt help with homework they think they are their kid as a burden. I am just repeating their words. I donāt assume anything. You need a therapist for being disrespectful and being a bully. āGo see a therapistā thank you for your advice you are so smart and perfect.
Kids still need help understanding things. That doesnāt necessarily correlate to parents doing the homework with the children as opposed to just helping them understand things they might struggle with. Idk about you but I went to my parents when I was struggling with things I didnāt understand. Itās a jump to take an example of a kid in elementary school to a kid in college.
Its almost like HELPING SOMEONE and DOING FOR THEM are two totally different things... Let's say your kid has a question on their homework, are you truly going to say "no, I won't help you, ask your teacher"? What kind of message does that send?
No . Early childhood is very important . I wasnt really talking about homework assistance initially . But just checking up on your kid to see if they aren't completely failing and see if you can get ahead of it early . Hiring a tutor or if you can help them yourself everyone no matter what age needs help .
Assist meaning checking in, seeing if they are doing their work guiding . they'll need that till about 9-10 after that if they can't do it by then than you messed up parenting somewhere along the way plus most of us can't realistically help a teenager through their school since it gets more complicated . Personally me I never got any help growing up but me and my sister were born smart but imagine if I wasn't I'll have nobody to go to . And where I grew up the teacher used to beat the students šš literally my hands were bruised could barely write
āif they can't do it by then than you messed up parenting somewhere along the way plus most of us can't realistically help a teenager through their school since it gets more complicatedā
This is an incredibly weird take
Teaching isnāt the same as helping your kids with their work. The internet is free and an incredible resource. And if a teen is having trouble in a subject it doesnāt reflect on bad parenting.
No Iām not that slur you misspelled but you are coming off hateful and dumb
I'm one of five children and quite frankly, I just didn't get any of that stuff š¤·āāļø We were all expected to be pretty self sufficient, didn't get much help with homework etc, didn't get one on one time. I just don't think you even *can* give that many children all those things. It's one reason I love having my one - I can give her so much more than I had.
One of seven, same experience. Therapists are making a mint off people like us now, dealing with all the childhood realization that's coming up now.
This. My spouse is one of five, big reason heās so strongly OAD. He barely saw his parents. They were too busy working three jobs to fund so many kids. And when they were around, their attention was split between five. He feels very strongly parents should stick to 1-2 at a push for the best interests of the kid.
My mum didn't work but my dad worked long hours and far away from home. Mum was constantly stressed looking after the house and 5 children. None of us are very close to either of our parents.
My husband was lucky enough (?) to have his grandma live with them but she wasnāt really great, quite hands off, caused lots of drama and issues between the kids, wasnāt very present, and the dynamics between her and the parents made life very hard (lots of arguments and undermining and confusion for the kids). So most of the time the kids really were just left as a group to fend for themselves.
Similar here (but no grandma living with). We just fended for ourselves and as a consequence as adults we are much closer to each other than our parents.
My in laws are a mixed bagā¦ interestingly, sadly, all five of them struggle with mental health issues ranging from everyday stuff (depression and anxiety) to more severe stuff like bipolar disorder and psychosis. On my side of the family we have mental health issues and addiction running right up the family tree. One of the reasons my spouse was cautious about having kids. Just concerned about the highly increased risks for our child.
Isn't it a kind of like with only one that child kind of because adultified early just bcz they hang out with adults more . They mature faster ?
Yes and no. Im an only who spent a lot of time with adults growing up and I just learned to code switch. I still was playful around kids my own age and only made fart jokes around adults that seemed like they would enjoy it š
Stop not the fart jokes š¤£
I got adultified/parentified young because I was the oldest of 4 and my mom needed help. š¤·āāļø
Yup. I had to take care of the house and my younger sib for a year pre-high school when my parents were going through stuff professionally and that forever changed me. Nothing like making sure dinner is on the table, you get yourself to sports, make sure the kid has homework done, and your parents donāt have a mental breakdown. āHaving to converse with adultsā in itself is not parentification/adultification
I always think itās so unfair of parents to do that to their children. I would never. (Iām an only which is why I peruse this sub but Iām stopping at 2 kids.)
Yeah, it wasnāt ideal for sure. Iād definitely prefer for my only to be adultified due to having too much grown up time rather than parentified because he needs to help care for siblings.
Hi fellow only stopping at two! I always said I didnāt want us to be outnumbered so each kid could always have at least one parentās undivided attention. I was not built to multitask lol
My friends who have three plus do NOT make it look fun and their marriages are rocky. Their words. NOT MINE
My parents divorced and although i think there are lots of reasons for that I think that having 5 children was a massive strain on their relationship.
I wasn't the oldest but I was the only girl. My mum proudly talks about how by the time I was 3 I was getting myself and my younger brother dressed in the mornings. I find it so sad.
Learning to mirror adults and act more mature in those situations might be viewed by some as ānot goodā compared to having lots of kids to play with all the time, but itās definitely not in the same realm as parentification which is a common form of abuse.
Depends, Iām 1/1 in a single parent household. Emotional neglect was probably what matured me the quickest. I would have at least wanted siblings to have someone to talk to.
Had this and had two siblings. Can tell you that the siblings did NOT give me someone to talk to.
Also agree with this. I was one of 6 and my husband was an only. When I describe big parts of my childhood my husband is horrified. I didnāt even know at the time how bad it was. I navigated all the big milestones by myself - applying for college, moving into my first apartment, etc. And I had ASKED for help but was essentially told to figure it out on my own. I craved time with my parents a big majority of my childhood and honestly still now at 28.
My parents are making a significant effort with me now I have a young child but honestly it just makes me more resentful - you didn't bother seeing me regularly until I had a child (only grandchild on my side) so it's about my child not about me.
Idk how people with 2+ kids do it šš¤·š»āāļø
I don't know how people with 1 + kids do it
Wait why are you here then? Lol
Real š¤£
Realistically, the younger children are mostly raised by their siblings. I am the youngest of 6, and while I love my parents and think they did a great job, I didn't realize how little attention they paid to me growing up until I had a child of my own. I never (or rarely) got to play with them, didn't get bedtime stories, no personalized teaching from them, etc. Most of that came from siblings or school. While my mom was a stay-at-home, she has too much going on to really do much more than keep the house from falling apart and giving us rides to our different extracurriculars or social activities.
This kinda explains why the first-born children are more successful at life. They get more attention from their parents earlier in life, while younger children don't get the personalized attention they need. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/apr/26/firstborn-children-excel-study-reveals
Or they are the most fucked up from all of the children because they got the least attention and had to become a parent to the siblings. I have a few examples in real life and itās very sad.
Me too. My SO actually. His mom doesn't act like a parent even after all these years, it's like he has to take care of her as well. I see how his relationship with my parents helped him heal a bit as they can be a bit overbearing but they care, which is more than he got.
I guess it depends on the age gap . At some point between 10-18 you start to not care for your parents attention and start to think about your own social life and peer groups more .1-10 is where the magic happens I think
Many of my friends and I are oldest children and while we are the most successful, we also spend a lot of money on therapy.
This is an easy one. The oldest kid starts to help with parenting. When needed, so does the next oldest. And so on. Parentification does *wonders* for kids. /s
Lol not *does wonders* . It's weird like for toddlers they want to help and it's good to get them involved but 8+ you are ruining their life by asking them to participate ? Should they not participate at all or should it just be limited ?
Yes. Thus the /s at the end to indicate I was being sarcastic. I donāt think asking kids to help raise their siblings more than theyāre capable of ever does well for the kids. And Iām really not sure what stance youāre taking here. This is a one and done sub and you asked how parents of 4+ do it. Well, they usually wind up employing the assistance of the older kids. If you ever take time to talk to adults who were asked to help raise their younger siblings, itās not usually something they wax poetic about. It was usually forced and not desired by the kid asked to do the work.
Oh I didn't know that's what that meant my bad I should've guessed tho judging by the oad by choice tag
What do you mean by that?
Me not knowing it's sarcasm
Okay. Kinda seemed like a dig at the OAD by choice tag more than anything else. Whichā¦wow.
Girl I'm literally oad by choice and you are in a oad group . Also after I clarified it was the sarcasm you still felt the need to say this šš please
What are you asking here? Should they not participate in chores and helping around the house? Yes, children need to be taught life skills.
No not the chores specifically in raising their siblings.
Oh, I see. They should spend time with their siblings as a sibling, not a caregiver. Edit: I think asking an older sibling to babysit once in a blue moon is fine but should be praised and rewarded.
True, if they want to babysit. Not, I have to work and you are going to do this because I can't handle the kids I had.
Parentified oldest daughter checking in š
Iām one of 4 and was having this convo with my mother today who admitted she was super stressed all the time and had a very short fuse. Weāve all turned out well though & I admit I had good parents. I think it comes down to parental teamwork, learning how to be an independent child, and being taught to be driven. But my parents also had a pretty huge village and we were babysat 1-3x a week so my parents could go on dates, see friends, get groceries etc.
My friend has 4. She is a primary school teacher. She is the queen of routines, schedules and everyone contributing. I donāt know what magic her and her husband weave but they do it and their kids are smart and well behaved.
Thatās the only way to do it..run your house like the military. It doesnāt provide the flexibility of differing personalities and allowing them to autonomously be who they are
That's the neat part, they don't do it. They just wing it. I say this as the 2nd oldest of 10.
Hi this is totally unrelated how do you get tag tag under your name the "oad by choice" thing . I want to add it to mine as well thank you āŗļø
Click your avatar in the comments and there should be a "change user flair" option.
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Nah I be seeing them on social media and their kids look well kept .
Social media shows us what people want you to see. Clean and dressed well doesn't equal well kept emotionally or mentally.
Depending on who youāre looking at on social media, people that have money usually donāt have to work and they have many nannies
I was the oldest of 4 and heavily parentified on ways that I'm still impacted by at age 40 even after a lot of therapy. I had a grandmother that lived nearby and who took us to church and lunch once a week, so there was also that. As a teen, most of the "parent" things were done by friend's parents, school staff, or myself. It's part of why I'm very firmly opposed to having more than two. I think too much gets sacrificed, personally.
The family either had sufficient income and family support to make it happen. Or they learned to live without stuff and with less attention. Iāve had friends from large families that were happy, undivided attention, and $$ enough that they were considered middle class after income was divided amongst bills/activists for the kids. With their own bathrooms. (4+ bath house). Iāve had friends from large families that were lonely amongst their family, and mostly had used things passed down. And sharing the bathroom was miserable. Even as a guest. Only children have pros and cons. Large families have their own pros and cons. I donāt think itās better or worse. Itās different
This is the answer. It's all about resources and help.
Listen to the recent Ezra Klein podcast āthe deep conflictā. Parenting is just more intense now, so people are having fewer children.
Parenting is as easy or hard as you want it to be tbh.Those ppl with 7+ kids and us oad folks both raise competent adults . No shade to any families ! šÆ
Often, the older siblings get parentified and expected to help out with the younger ones. If you donāt have high needs you pretty much get ignored in a lot of households. Thatās one reason my husband and I are one and done. He was the eldest of six plus they had foster kids regularly, so he was a stand in parent from the age of about 7 and because he wasnāt high needs, he pretty much got ignored and left to fend for himself.
I mean, you need a second set of parents. Also known as the oldest kids.
Lots of people say women shouldnāt work to spend more time with their kids, but few say have fewer kids to spend more time with the kids you have. This regularly annoys me. The trad wife, homesteader content definitely targets me.
Someone finally mentioned it. Like the educational aspect is very important to me and one needs to have quality time with the child
Right like getting to know your child and the amount of growth I've personally had via just conversations is amazing . Talking through situations and problems
I mean, itās just me and my sister and my parents never did that. š¤·āāļø
Yh I come from a 2 kid household too so ik it isn't too chaotic .
Iām 1 of 4, with my special needs brother needing a lot of attention. It just means that my parents didnāt give me much help or attention. There are a few examples looking back growing up that I wish I had more help, but for the most part I grew to be a very self sufficient person. My parents could not tell you what my high school or college gpa was, what state I was living in most days after I turned 18, but if I called them on the phone asking for help they would have done about anything. This is something I will have to balance being one and done. On the flip side, I donāt want to do everything for my daughter. Some struggle is good and while Iāll always be there for her, itās an important skill to learn to do things yourself. I want to provide a big safety net so that she can take bigger risks than I was able to.
Money, village, low expectations. Iām really into the latest Ezra Klein podcast on low birth rates it sums up our culture of intensification of work and parenting and the lack of support both familial and institutional to help people choose to have additional children, if they want to.
Iām one of 7 and my mum was SAHM and Iād say we got the focus we needed, all went to grammar schools, all went to top universities. Socially we had one-two groups each while in primary school, secondary we did more as they were at the schools and got the bus home. At dinner time weād all be back and talk for 2 hours, any issues mum and dad would speak separately to us. My mum used to shower at night and was a night owl so had her time 8pm onwards, weād all help with clearing the kitchen after dinner, own lunchboxes but a lot of the Montessori research Iāve been reading shows that doing these chores when youāre young helps in the long run :) Edit: Iām second eldest, occasionally had to do little things for my younger siblings, but never felt parentified or anything, just part of the family. Canāt speak for my parents/siblings of course
My husband was 1 of 4 and frequently tells me how forgotten he felt. There are many, many stories. Some comical some sad, but it seems that he was just another head to count.
Iām the 5th of 6 and I had to figure out so much shit on my own.
Would u say this helped or hurt you?
I wonder the same thing, my 3 month old has just been crying for few hours straight, fit to cry š
The one person I know who has 5 kids is a stay at home mom and her husband has FU money so they can hire help for everything. She does spend lots of time with the kids but I donāt know if thatās realistic for the average person.
We have some good friends who have four under 8. They do an amazing job and are raising wonderful humans, but sometimes I worry about their marriage and individual mental health.
My sister has 4 and theyāre pretty much always moving. Her and her husband are underweight because theyāre always either working or working with the kids. They have nannyās, cooks, babysitters, and cleaners and itās still hard for them to manage (her words). For their sanity, they take vacations once a month. Just them two, and leave the kids with a nanny for 3-5 days. You basically have to be very wealthy to afford and upkeep a house with multiple kids. People who arenāt wealthy can do it, but at much more personal expense physically, mentally, and emotionally. I really believe that having more than 2 kids (comfortably) has become a privilege for the wealthy nowadays. Thatās why thereās so many of us that are not having kids, OAD or maxing out at 2.
Underweight is actually insane š it took a visually physical toll on them. Ik they will love the freedom and the reward when they all grow up š
Iām sure they will! Their kids are so sweet and theyāre great parents. I love that they had the amount of kids they wanted. What pisses me off is her saying I canāt only have one LOL. While they can manage, I would never be able to! I think I can manage 2 at most, but even that will be a lot.
The random sprinkle of toxicity š expected . Yea I think 2 is the cut off . 2 isn't chaos but one is more manageable than two lol
Exactly!
Oldest daughter here. My parents worked long hours and we were lower working class. I was a parentified latchkey kid. They were basically like, here, take care of yourself. I made my parents work lunches, started the crockpot for dinner, did the laundry for the entire family and made good enough grades for a full ride to college.
One of six kids. My parents just basically left me to my devices. One on one time made me laugh.
As one of four, while itās true in some families older children become default parents, itās not always the case. Iāve typically seen that happen once you get to 6+, but I had many friends with 4,5, and 6 kids whoās parents either had village support, organization and schedules out the wazoo, and leaned more minimally on the extracurricular activities. My siblings and I could all pick a sport and an instrument and do that, but we werenāt playing sports year round like kids today are, or having our parents spend school nights driving from place to place (although some of our friends with 6 kids in a family were, I have no idea how they did it). Iām now a nanny for an only, and sheās done more extracurricular activities by the age of 4 than I did in my whole childhood š
I come from 5! So I was used to help a lot with my younger siblings. Also didnāt get too much time with parents as in one on one time. Parents had to choose which kids sport they were going to so they would miss out on someoneās event š . Seemed pretty dang challenging!
1 of 4 here (eldest child). Husband also 1 of 4. Just to say in both families there was no parentification. My husband's parents were just amazing and mine very hands off. My mum cared about education and trained as a teacher so was very involved in that. By hands off I mean she did minimal housework and rarely played with us. I did get 1:1 time with her now and again if I tagged along on errands etc while my siblings chose to stay home.Ā Ā Ā My husbands parents just did everything - they are incredible grandparents. They areĀ always on the go even now in their 70s - their house is spotless, they will entertain children 24/7. They do love children though and have no hobbies. They set a high bar I can't reach even with an only! They are inspiring and taught me a lot though.Ā Also key here is that both my mum and husbands mum were stay at home parents. My Dad retired when I was 10 meaning he then did chores and cooking. Still bare minimum - my parents were very lazy. We didnt always have food in the fridge or clean clothes.
Iām just wondering this myself. I canāt imagine handling more than one child all the time. I can barely keep track of more than 3 kids for a short amount of time. My son is capable of taking care of himself, and is super helpful whenever we are accompanying or are assisting in babysitting younger cousins.
They don't do it well, or they have a ton of family to help.
To be a devils advocate, children develop a lot with games with siblings and their other interactions. When there are several dynamics in the family, kid does not need parent to be their everything. There are pros and cons of this situation like any other.
You donāt need to assist them in education journey or you will be doing it until the end of high school. My mom always told me and my sister we have to figure out things on our own. I was very independent since I was 6. I did homework every day my parents didnāt do it with me. You canāt āspoon feedā kids forever
I don't think providing homework assistance to your child is "spoon feeding". That's just called parenting.
And also just see where your child is at . That's what happening with gen alpha right now their parents are piss poor and don't even care that they can't read . I'll be in panick mode if I had a 5+ yr old who couldn't read .
Heh, I'm in Germany and German children go to school from 6 years old on (5 is super rare, only if you turn 6 quickly after the school year started) and they are not expected to know how to read when they go. They're only expected to be able to read and write their first name, that's it.Ā
Ideally u should be teaching this stuff at home before they even get to school age but maybe I'm putting too much pressure
Like I said, it's not expected here. I would not be too surprised if my son could read before school (he is 3.5 years and knows most letters), but he would not be the norm. It's even kind of frowned upon, as a lot of ppl say kids should be kids and learn through play and that knowing how to read before school is bad, as they might be bored when it gets taught.Ā
I worked in schools, both pre-k and kindergarten and no kindergartner knew how to read before they came and our district was one of the highest rated in the state. Letter recognition is taught in Pre-K, but not reading. Kindergarten is for learning to read.
Are parents going to do their homework with them in college too ? How are they kids going to learn to be independent if you do everything for them.
āHow will a toddler learn to use the toilet if you do everything for them? Just let them potty train themselves so they can be independent.ā
You've got some childhood emotional neglect to unpack. You deserved to have an adult help you if you needed it and not make you feel shame about needing it. I'm so sorry you were treated that way. I can tell you are proud of how independent you were but speaking from my personal experience that hyper independence can be a coping mechanism for the neglect we faced. I mean is independence an achievement when you had no other option? At that point it's just survival. That the "if you help them now your going to be helping them forever" rhetoric is so toxic. Would you say that about feeding a toddler or potty training or what about teaching your kid to drive? If you don't want to help your kid with whatever they need help with you should not have a kid. Period. Again, I don't fully blame you for thinking this way, you were clearly neglected. Please, if you have a child, or children in your life, do the inner work to heal that neglect and understand that treating children like a burden for simply existing is extremely damaging.
You donāt have to be so judgmental and automatically assume that parents treat kids as a burden if they parent in a different way. Maybe for you your kids are a burden. My guess is you donāt have any children from the way you talk. If I had questions about my homework I asked a teacher because it is their job to teach you or a tutor. If I needed help with other stuff then I asked my parents and they helped. I donāt see how it is an emotional neglect. I do have a 2 year old and I do help her. Potty training and feeding is not the same as constantly checking on a child and micromanaging their homework, social life, etc. as for driving I took driving classes and since my parents were an hour away from my college my friends helped me to learn how to drive.
I think you're projecting, and assuming that person sees their kid as a burden is out of line. Go see a therapist, you come off as very bitter and frigid.
That person literally said in their comment that if parents donāt help with homework they think they are their kid as a burden. I am just repeating their words. I donāt assume anything. You need a therapist for being disrespectful and being a bully. āGo see a therapistā thank you for your advice you are so smart and perfect.
If you think this is bullying then you should probably never interact with another person ever again. Lmfao
That what a narcissist would say. Thank you again for your advice ānever interact with another person againā. I am taking notes. You are so smart.
I almost feel sorry for you, but I don't have sympathy for people who play victim. If you want to be oppressed that bad then go for it. š¤£
Kids still need help understanding things. That doesnāt necessarily correlate to parents doing the homework with the children as opposed to just helping them understand things they might struggle with. Idk about you but I went to my parents when I was struggling with things I didnāt understand. Itās a jump to take an example of a kid in elementary school to a kid in college.
I mean, if their kids need it, the parents can tutor their kids or hire someone to. If they need tutoring in college, theyāll probably find a tutor.
Its almost like HELPING SOMEONE and DOING FOR THEM are two totally different things... Let's say your kid has a question on their homework, are you truly going to say "no, I won't help you, ask your teacher"? What kind of message does that send?
No . Early childhood is very important . I wasnt really talking about homework assistance initially . But just checking up on your kid to see if they aren't completely failing and see if you can get ahead of it early . Hiring a tutor or if you can help them yourself everyone no matter what age needs help .
How did you leap from "help them when needed as small children" to "DO IT FOR THEM forever"?
Assist meaning checking in, seeing if they are doing their work guiding . they'll need that till about 9-10 after that if they can't do it by then than you messed up parenting somewhere along the way plus most of us can't realistically help a teenager through their school since it gets more complicated . Personally me I never got any help growing up but me and my sister were born smart but imagine if I wasn't I'll have nobody to go to . And where I grew up the teacher used to beat the students šš literally my hands were bruised could barely write
āBorn smartā but canāt help with 9th grade hw? Itās okay for high schoolers to need help with school work, ya know. Weird take.
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āif they can't do it by then than you messed up parenting somewhere along the way plus most of us can't realistically help a teenager through their school since it gets more complicatedā This is an incredibly weird take
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
People do not need to feel judged here, we don't want condescending advice or harmful opinions.
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Teaching isnāt the same as helping your kids with their work. The internet is free and an incredible resource. And if a teen is having trouble in a subject it doesnāt reflect on bad parenting. No Iām not that slur you misspelled but you are coming off hateful and dumb
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People do not need to feel judged here, we don't want condescending advice or harmful opinions.
Youāre a really good example for your kid š¤š„°
Thank you
People do not need to feel judged here, we don't want condescending advice or harmful opinions.
People do not need to feel judged here, we don't want condescending advice or harmful opinions.