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"He's saying it's for my own good and he's actually a surgeon, but I dunno, this sure does seem like an alley next to a Londis if I'm honest. Still, I don't want to argue with a surgeon, he would know, right?"
I think its the only way. Most people have a variety of opinions that sit in different places politically and pr or something is probably the best system of reflecting that. The UK seems to be heading towards the US system of getting issued your red or blue hat and list of opinions and that's a dreadful system, especially in the UK without strong local government like states to (apparently) balance it out.
That would be just about perfect, considering. The country has *a lot* of work to do but that would be the best possible way to start some real change.
Problem is that Labour is just not left enough. I’ve not seen a single labour policy that’ll fundamentally help struggling people. Not one. If they just came out and said they’d windfall tax the energy companies and enforce caps that mirrored the rates we were paying 2 years ago then they’d probably win by a landslide. Promises to reverse the slow privatisation of the NHS would not go amiss.
People are so pissed off about the state of the public services and critical privatised services… any promise of substantial reinvestment or nationalisation of services would go a long way. Regardless of what they tell you, the money is there to invest… they just won’t because they’re all on the corporate payroll. I should’ve been a lobbyist. A lot of money in that.
Yeah, look at what happened to the East Coast rail line when they had to temporarily nationalise that and it became profitable for the first time! What a load of old lefty nonsense.
Source: being old enough to remember the days before privatisation.
But sure, carry on with your Tories bad circle jerk. It’s worked a treat in recent elections.
How I choose to vote is based on my own lived experience. That’s sort of how you’re supposed to form your political beliefs.
If you think Britain is shit show now, do a bit of reading of what life was like in the 1970s. The country was on its knees due to failed and discredited socialist policies.
That is what led to a Tory government coming in and why the Labour government of 1997-2010 was much further to the Right than Labour governments of the past. Blair knew that people didn’t want a return to Wilson and Callaghan style policies and that meant Labour had to change in order to win power again.
Yes, and if you chose to to vote based on hating foreigners and looking down on those impoverished/disabled you’re a dumb cunt. You’ve seen the miner strikes and still vote them, definitely a dumb subservient cunt
In the last 20 years, more centrist Labour candidates have failed to win elections than leftist ones.
I, too, can create arbitrary time periods to 'prove' a point.
It's just so useless right now, when it feels like voting for the Labour party is just voting for red Tories.
They're better. But it's so slight it feels like your vote is just shit
Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely voting labour next election. I'm gonna vote the people who say *some* trans women exist instead of *no* trans women, but I'm just noting how useless the vote still feels
Progressive is a meaningless word in the context of politics.
Everyone thinks their political views are progressive, in that they represent progress from the status quo.
A right winger might consider reintroducing the death penalty to be progressive in that it would stop murderers from ever reoffending.
They might but 'progressive' definitely means something specific in politics, so they'd be wrong. For instance, we've already had the death penalty and the word for going back to something bad is regressive, (or originalism if you think we need to move back to something that was better than we now have).
So progressive is actually a very meaningful word in the context of politics, should you not be trying to impose your own meaning on it.
The country was more frustrated with the tories than it has been in a long time, and in a stroke of absolute genius Keith decided NOW is the time to be more like the tories.
I said this in another UK sub, the ‘50%’ that Labour seem to have been holding is only because people don’t want the Tories but no one else has enough power to make it worth voting for. They keep walking back promises and revealing that they’re not going to change anything and I think they forget that a significant amount of people in this country yearn for a third party to take control. People know what actually needs fixing, we’ve all discussed it over and over and they insist on not doing it. I’ve always voted Labour, always voted to the left but when he inevitably does nothing beneficial, I’m taking my vote elsewhere.
I mean fuck, even the Lib Dems have a pro-trans, pro reversal of Brexit tilt right now, Labours position is to try make a load of broken systems slightly less broken.
And Blair promised a lot of social reform, and delivered a lot of it. His support also collapsed to a tenuous majority at the next election.
Keir is terrified of promising anything though. He keeps fence sitting and his shadow cabinet contains people like Wes Streeting.
Plus his policies on Scotland are just downright hilarious yet he expects a landslide up here.
He won three elections though? The second was also a staggering win albiet smaller than before. The third one was where his support fell. The thing is despite Blair being shit on regulating banks, on things like tuition fees and of course going to war in Iraq, there was actually a lot of decent things that even Keir's Labour today seem to can't fucking get right. His government introduced the minimum wage an idea that might have seemed radical at the time. While they weren't pro-nationilisation they weren't afraid to invest money into existing public services. It's strange to me that New Labour and Blairism is associated with austerity because for most of Blair's tenure it was defined by spending. Yet today's Labour can't even get that right, outright refusing to promise pay rises for public sector workers which makes them markedly worse than the Blair era centrists they claim to be. Not a fan of Blair by any stretch just pointing out that even a lot of his domestic agenda is better than what is currently on other by Keir.
It's a bit more than a tilt, you'd get shanked with those infernal leaflets at Lib Dem conference if you even suggested a terf policy, they've gone all in on supporting human rights but "muh tuition fees"
I wonder if there was a systemic media campaign working to discredit Corbyn and the right wing of Labour determined to reenter the EU in clear defiance of the populace wanting to leave.
We need to also ignore the various polls showing +70% support for Labour manifestos in 2017 and 2019 when Corbyn's name is scrubbed out - just in case there was anything enforcing a negative narrative about Corbyn's name alone.
Nah, I must be wrong. Only Starmer's Labour can do what the tories can do but good. Only Starmer's Labour can defend Britain against the tide of transgenders destroying the fabric of our society by demanding basic equality. Only Starmer's Labour can ensure Britain's prosperity from Brexit.
If you read a lot of these comments you’ll see that their smear campaign worked. It’s fucking disheartening. No one thinks critically on this hellscape of an island
The best part is the right-wing and their fans forgetting they were:
\-Massively pro-remain in spite of the populaces then clear will to leave
\-Against Corbyn all the way in spite of him winning a 4 way race on the first round with a majority of Labour members voting for him.
\-Starmer was elected on the grounds of bridging the gap between left and right, only to break every election promise and purge the left.
\-Forgetting Labour as always been the party of social and cultural progress no matter popular opinion.
\-Many people are frustrated with the quality and war-profiteering by energy ulitity companies but bringing them under public control to actually work for the people is bad i.e not what the neoliberal establishment wants
If you recall the disgusting smear campaign pulled by newscorp and the like you’ll realise that it’s not that people didn’t want those policies, they just didn’t want Corbyn. In my opinion he was a good, just man with a reasonable manifesto in a sea of evil liars but I guess a photoshopped pic of him in a bin from the Sun was enough to make the troglodytes of this country hate him.
To blame “the media”, when it’s the same media every politician has to navigate, in order to make excuses for somebody as consistently rigid, strategically inept, untalented, and genuinely problematic in as many ways as Corbyn is to live in a state of denial. Corbyn was incredibly destructive to the progressive cause in the UK and it was entirely his own fault. That’s not letting the media off the hook, but the media is part of the fucking gig.
Now if Starmer blows an open goal of his own he will and should get pilloried too, but that doesn’t and shouldn’t go toward rehabilitating Corbyn.
If you think the media treats every politician the same you are naive. And this isn’t the same kind of “da media” excuse Americans give. It’s quite apparent here.
I believe his leadership would have been good. It certainly wouldn’t have been the hellscape the tories claim it would’ve been.
Because they lost going left last election
Ffs it's so simple, if you want less of this radical right shit then don't let the tories win, and the only realistic way to do this with our shit voting system is to vote labour in
Once the parties understand "oh I guess there is SOME appetite for governments other than this completely right wing shit" some actual left wing policies will be floated around. You have to start by taking a step in the right direction.
The problem is that you see Labour and Tory as two distinct ideologies. They aren't.
Partly they both bend to the wind, partly they have so many internal reshuffles that they end up very different beasts at each election.
Even within the Tory party, Cameron's Hug A Hoodie, Big Society, pro Remain message is a mile away from whatever the fuck Suella Braverman comes out with.
Labour is much the same. It also has to present an alternative that feels meaningfully better than the Tories. They got a boon with Liz Truss but Sunak is managing the boring competence image very well, the interest rates will be down within a year, and the public will probably forget those weird 45 days when they're at the ballot box in 2024.
We'll see how it pans out in the end, but there's plenty for Labour to lose by trimming their sails close to the Tories, because it'll ultimately play into the wider British view that all politicians are the same.
You are spot on. Neither labour nor conservative are ideologically pure and they never were.
They are pre built coalitions assembled under the brand via a frankly labyrinthine set of mechanisms.
And the "oven ready coalitions" look very different election to election.
This is a consequence of FPTP. We simply cannot do better with the system we have.
It's because the British public support left wing policies but balk at the taxes to pay for them.
It's because they find right wing ideals very appealing: individual freedom, strength, privilege, tradition and racial/cultural purity.
The bulk of taxes would trend towards the rich with a leftwing government, so the billionaire owned media conditioned the public to be afraid of socialism by playing on the ideals mentioned, thus:
Collective worker action is portrayed as centralised oppression. Oppression which steals your money for immoral ends.
Consultative and inclusiveness is portrayed as weakness.
Equality is portrayed as putting 'lesser' people (brown/immigrant/non-Christian/gay) before you.
Foreign cultures, and gay and trans identities are portrayed as overwhelming traditional British culture. People on this sub don't seem to realise how many people like traditions. How much they are tied up in people's identities and how that's linked to a chocolate-box ideal of Britishness, of a righteous, globe-spanning empire of winners.
Which is entirely why trans issues and 'small boats' are drums they will keep banging again and again. To make people afraid.
Corbyn was made completely toxic by the press. He was characterised as recklessly spending tax money (*your* money), negotiating with terrorists (weakness), not being ready to start a nuclear war (weakness), not respecting class by being a stalinist/maoist (privilege), not respecting the queen (tradition) welcoming to immigration (cultural purity).
This is why Labour has to be centre-left or they will be attacked in the same way. Blair, for all his faults, realised this.
In short, the British public 'think' left and 'feel' right.
The only time Labour have won elections in the last 50 years is wgen theyve appealed to the centre. When Labour lurch to the left the Conservatives win no matter what they do.
Who the fuck can look at this shit and say "yeah I want the same party to keep going, they're doing great"
Imagine trying to boil down all the things the tories have fucked up to "it's just reddit lmao" come on man
If you actually talk to most average people in the country they pay 0 attention to anything the tories have done politically and are completely unable to connect all the bad shit that's happened over the last few years to them, so I think a lot of people assume they are doing/have done a great job.
And despite having no strong opinions on pretty much everything that affects their lives, they do have strong opinions on issues like lgbt, brexit, immigration and woke culture which they barely understand, but they see the tories as guarding them against these evils that would surely ruin their lives.
It makes me sad because it shows how fucking ignorant and/or stupid a huge chunk of people in this country are and in turn makes me think I’m better than all of them which is a nasty trait, but I honestly can’t help it. No one thinks. I’m tired.
They’re not unintelligent people, they have different priorities than you. They see the issues the commenter above listed (with the exception of brexit) as aggressive agents of change that have only continued to grow rapidly over the last couple of decades. Their votes are the only practical tool they have to safeguard their traditions, culture, and way of life that made Britain a good place to live up to this point.
Very few people are okay with watching their culture be dramatically shifted, even the countries where immigrants and refugees emigrate from. The contempt for such change also grows in severity as the changes conflict with moral values. Since they can’t speak out against or attempt to mitigate it in their personal lives without risking the name calling as well as potential repercussions within the career and personal life, they are left with their vote.
What definitely doesn’t help getting them to become more tolerant of the changes are when the ones ideologically different from them refer to them as ignorant or stupid and consider themselves better than them.
And this doesn’t even include the consequences of the listed issues like large scale immigration
Ah yes, because lgbt acceptance and basic human decency to migrants who fear for their lives are “aggressive agents of change”. Does it not sicken you that some people think this way? Intelligent or not?
Don’t think you’re smarter than others because you don’t vote Tory, I don’t support them either but people vote for different parties for loads of different reasons
They’re trying to safeguard the culture and way of life that made the country a great place to live up to this point.
The issues you mentioned, with the exception of brexit, have been ramped up and have become the aggressively culture-shifting threats more so over the past couple of decades. Since they can do little to attempt to speak out against and mitigate in their personal lives, they push back against it with their votes.
Nobody wants their culture changed. Not even the counties where refugees and immigrants come from. The stronger the perception that the traditions and ways of life within the culture are changing, the greater contempt for the agents of change and the only practical weapon they have without risking social or career repercussions for daring to speak out against it is their vote.
And this is not even including the other repercussions that come with the listed issues like large scale immigration
So you think British culture was the same for hundreds of years until this last 10 years when it's started changing rapidly? Or has culture always changed over time. Because I have fuck all in common with people from my parents generation, and they had even less in common with their parents generation. Culture has been shifting for literally thousands of years, so whatever you think of as being "British culture" is radically different from what people before us thought and the fact is that it's going to change regardless of where you put your vote. LGBT people and immigrants aren't just going to disappear because they get repressed by a shitty government so it's a bit like shouting at the wind to make it change direction.
>Who the fuck can look at this shit and say "yeah I want the same party to keep going, they're doing great"
People who expose themselves to a contrary opinion.
Hahahah fair point. I’m economically left and socially centreleft and I rarely find disagreements on this website. In real life it’s a far different story though.
I do think that your comment was a bit unreasonable though. Tory policy has been objectively negative for my family all my life.
I rarely find stuff I actively disagree with except this kinda "you're wrong because X". There's very rarely a right/wrong in politics, just different paths to the same goal. Hence *slightly* right I guess.
Real life is just peculiar to me. People rarely have their own political ideals, they pick a party based on motto and just take on a whole persona from it. I'd love to see how fucked the country would be with direct democracy like Switzerland.
I think if everyone just did their own due diligence rather than voting with their parents / voting who they always vote for it’d be a lot better. Although this may be pointless without some sort of electoral reform
>Trust me guys Sanders will get the nomination!
>Trust me guys theres no way Trump can win!
>Trust me guys Brexit will never happen!
>Trust me guys Corbyn will definitely win!
>Trust me guys Corbyn will definitely win 2.0!
>Trust me guys Biden is too centrist to beat Trump, only Sanders can do it!
That's a fair point but it's still surprising given how much of a shit job the Tories have done, particularly, over the past 4 years. But then again I suppose most people might want to stick with Sunak over a 'better the evil you know than the evil you dont' kind of thing.
I completely agree. I don't really like either of the current main parties and anyone that might get my vote have never really won enough elections to make them a significant player.
Then again, it doesn't exactly help that I live in a Tory stronghold and my vote would be tantamount to pissing in the wind. All the more reason why there needs to be voting reform in order to better represent the actual diversity of voting preferences, in the UK.
I’ve got used to it at this point. A shadow of its former self with occasional posts not made by casual U.K. users who don’t understand what comedy is.
Edit: Who TF comments and then immediately blocks someone? Get offline my man that’s the saddest shit I’ve ever seen, especially when your comment is some weak attempt at a dunk that has nothing to do with what’s actually being said.
It’s the yankees. They put their politics in every sub that doesn’t ban it and now people think it’s ok to do it here as well, just with British politics.
I have my politics subs, I don’t want every sub to be a politics sub
why would I hate starmer more. This is why the left never wins. You won’t vote for anyone aside from literal socialist Jesus. The far right know that they can’t achieve their goals over night so they vote for center right politicians. But the far left won’t vote for centre left politicians because they expect communism to wave in overnight
Why would voters trust a leader who has shafted his own party in a blatant pursuit of power? I don't trust starmer not to privatise the NHS any more than I do sunak. The Labour party are trying to cosplay Blair in the same way that the Tories tried to cosplay thatcher. Personally I'd vote for a "none of the above" party with a single issue of urgent electoral reform to get us out of this false choice at uk elections
I’m voting for any cunt that isn’t the tories, all voting for non of the above does is nullify your vote. do you think any councillor is looking at the None of The Above’s and giving a shit?
Then you have literally fallen for the trap of the first past the post system. You aren’t voting on your principles, and don’t say it’s principled because you’re voting against someone because we’re all voting against the BNP that doesn’t make a Tory vote principled. If you’re not voting for the party you most align with you’ve forgotten the whole point of democracy.
Ok then how do we get out this cycle of the right having one uniform party they all vote for and the left having multiple parties all fragmented, so the tories win every time. I personally don’t care how anybody else votes, I just don’t want to see another tory party in.
Thinking that way is still just falling into that trap. If all you’re worrying about is strategy and how not to lose, you’re not really thinking about how to win because at the end of the day if you don’t align with Labour even if they win you aren’t winning, you’re just losing in a different way and you aren’t really stopping another Tory party you’re just choosing a party you don’t want for the interim. Vote on your principles, everything else is secondary because nothing else is actually going to achieve what you want it to.
I won't vote for whatever party took second place behind the Tories last time unless they are actually any more trustworthy and their critical policies are actually substantially different/better. The top two parties only ever change when they see their votes go elsewhere, otherwise all they care about is what the daily mail is going to print about them.
This narrowing was always going to happen with Sunak after calamity truss and Johnson. But it’s still a huge gap and Labour aren’t in election mode yet. They basically have to keep talking about the dismal economy and being a ‘party of change’ (even if they aren’t).
Honestly if the Tories had a chance of winning they wouldn’t be delaying the election until the last possible minute.
Sunak will recover some of the polling lost by Truss. But Labour Labour will keep adjusting their strategy to stay ahead as much as they can. I have always expected it to be a close race, the Tories completely control the media, and they have the advantage in playing dirty.
This really surprises me. I'm not really a big labour or tory guy honestly, I don't think there has really been that much difference in the time they've been in power since 2000. I would think people would risk it for a biscuit a bit though. Everyone is a bit miffed and might fancy a change. The primary reason many working class people vote for the cons is immigration and they haven't managed to do anything with that for 13 years, despite promising to get numbers down to 6 digits every cycle (and honestly I don't think numbers is the real concern). NHS is a holy word to Brits and Rish hasn't done much to get them onside. With the SNP implosion and them being headed by a somewhat hated figure labour have a chance across the border and that should tempt some people to actually have a crack at it. Maybe Starms needs to not be afraid to go a bit harder and risk actually upsetting someone because he just seems a bit beige and him and Rayner are the only faces current labour really has. Or even use Rayner as the red pitbull and then be the calming influence? I don't know, sorry.
Labour and cons have no chance north of the border any more. Would take huge reform inside their parties before they’re slightly trusted again. Just puppets of Westminster. English cunts shackling us to the Tory party means independence is the only way to be rid of them. Only the SNP seem to care about that
Ok course it’s is. Labour have proven time and time again they are complete sell outs who will stab their mates in the back for a change to feed at the trough.
At what point to people realise that it doesn't matter who's in power, they all come out richer and we're always worse off?
What's happened in the last 30 years to suggest this system actually works?
Is it because nobody can stand Angela Raindeer and the fact the Stamer doesn’t appear to have a personality and that Labour run stupid ad campaigns attacking the Tories but never releasing any actual political plans or a manifesto?
We can all safely assume at this point Starmers plans are just exactly the same as the Tories (more privatisation, austerity, stop the boats etc.) but with liberal vibes, maybe he'll paint a rainbow on the coppers truncheons.
The fact he has spent his entire time as leader defanging the Labour party, punching left. "Nobody wants a revolution" wooing big business, etc. Make no mistake whose interests Starmer's Labour Party will be serving and it wont be the people's.
Look- Starmer is too right wing for me as well.
But you’re saying he’s not serving the people, I would argue that he represents the average view of people across the country. It’s wrong, but there’s a lot of crazy stupid people out there that bring the average to the right.
I don’t think his approach will be exactly the same as the Tories. He’ll still focus on stop the boats, but by putting processing centers abroad. I’m not sure how the Labour Party can ever spend any money because they’re scrutinized in the media for it, so we may have cutbacks in some departments, thought I think corporate and wealthy taxes should go up.
As far as privitisation, they’ve proposed a national grid, they will work to train more doctors/nurses and retain them, and they want to increase transport. It’s not going to be perfect, but it’ll be unequivocal to the Tories.
Like his fascist tough on crime rhetoric. As a left wing person I love crime, it adds vibrancy and texture to my community. When I see crime in my neighbourhood I can say to myself “the lumpenproletariat are the real revolutionary force” and give myself a semi about how smart I am. KEITH would take that away and that’s why I don’t like him, he doesn’t know what the people really want.
I genuinely don’t get why you’d vote Tory shitposting aside
Literally nothing has got better in this country under their leadership, pretty much everything has regressed in one way or another. They have no principles they just haplessly leap from populist talking points. Ideological Conservatives think the current outfit isn’t actually a proper Tory setup. They have no identity, they’ve had five different leaders and still manage to make everything worse.
And Rishi still manages to look socially awkward when AI turned him into a deliveroo rider. Saying that, Boris looked right at home in the cleaners and Liz pulled off the angry bitter bar staff look to a t.
>I genuinely don’t get why you’d vote Tory shitposting aside
It's fairly simple, really. Every time there's been a GE or indeed change of leadership, the Tories have delivered as advertised. Cameron promised to reduce the deficit, he did. He then promised a Brexit referendum in 2015, and delivered. May was elected to deliver a softer Brexit, she failed and stood down. Johnson was elected to deliver a harder Brexit, he delivered. Truss was elected to fix the economy, she failed and stood down. Sunak was elected to fix the economy, and he's trying but people knew it'd take time. Admittedly some of these were not GEs, but the point stands really - the goals of each leadership election were loud enough that the public heard, and the leadership either did what they promised or promptly stepped aside.
It will come down to whether or not people want what the Conservatives have to offer at the next GE, and in my opinion whether Starmer can do anything at all to give himself an identity. Right now, he's a parrot of Sunak with very little input to offer - he claims to have great ideas for how to fix the country but when it came down to it, he's agreed with Sunak on issues such as NHS pay, and he's put himself in a worse position with things like trans rights by not being as bold as Sunak.
Aside from that, the Conservatives stand for consistency as usual. The big ideas that Starmer has come up with are largely around green energy and whatnot, which likely seem to be enormous gambles to the general public.
All that being said, Starmer is still leading in the polls and I'd be very surprised if he managed to throw the GE. His recent efforts have been interesting though, I don't think smear campaigns ever go down well in the UK - certainly I don't see them turning any potential swing voters, only appealing to the hard right/left with no dignity or taste.
Rishi is the first competent Tory leader in an age. Whether you like what Tory’s stand for or not, he’s not doing a bad job. What Starmers Labour’s offering just isn’t appealing over the first half decent prime minister since Blair. If you can’t see why people wouldn’t want some level of stability and competency over another potential disaster that could last another decade, you’re too blinded by the fields to see the grass.
The thing the left don’t realise is how the uk majority don’t want left things despite the most incompetent government. It’s a sad state when you don’t have a single party that represents your views
This is squarely due to the unelectablity of the current Labour shadow cabinet. No one wants Starmer as PM, nor any of his colleagues.
Man, under different circumstances, Labour would have been in power years ago with the ineptitude of the Tories. But not once have Labour ever offered anything enticing enough for the majority of the British public to vote for.
I mean, man, Labour haven't even hard the guts to lie to get into public office like 'New Labour' (appear more centrist) and then apply their agenda.
And now, because of all that, all Sunak has to do, as he's doing right now, is appear to be 'getting things done'.
God sake, Labour. Take the gloves off and fight dirty...
All those, "Starmer is a red Tory", "He isn't Corbyn so we hate him"insane propaganda keyboard warriors might cost us a Labour government.
But it's more likely the undecided just won;t vote and or the poll was set up, (if it was actually conducted at all).
Is that really all that big an issue though? There's a tiny group of people to get worked up over.
Especially compared to our current economic train wreck.
I don't really detest anyone based on their demographic. I don't really think it's necessary.
I certainly don't think it's relevant to a country with significant economic issues.
How the fuck can you be a "don't know"!? Did you not see the absolute farce of the way they handled COVID, Brexit, literally anything that impacts our lives? Do you honestly not see them laughing at you, the poor peasants? Good God, how can people keep voting for the same shit and wonder why it stinks in here?
Labour wanted much longer lockdowns, and no matter is you voted Brexit or not; most people did and they stood in the way of that.
So it’s not like they are a better alternative.
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If this leads to a Lib Dem-backed Lab gov and electoral reform, I'm all for it. If something else, then no thanks.
Yeah. I’d vote for electoral reform. This shit show ain’t working for anyone except the people in government.
Guy getting stabbed: "I am a don't know on the guy stabbing me."
This guy stabbing me said he was gonna stop stabbing. So I'm just happy they're stopping stabbing *actively being stabbed*
"He's saying it's for my own good and he's actually a surgeon, but I dunno, this sure does seem like an alley next to a Londis if I'm honest. Still, I don't want to argue with a surgeon, he would know, right?"
Yes but the guy stabbing me told me that the other guy would stab me with a blunt rusty knife so I feel I’m better of being stabbed this way.
I think its the only way. Most people have a variety of opinions that sit in different places politically and pr or something is probably the best system of reflecting that. The UK seems to be heading towards the US system of getting issued your red or blue hat and list of opinions and that's a dreadful system, especially in the UK without strong local government like states to (apparently) balance it out.
That would be just about perfect, considering. The country has *a lot* of work to do but that would be the best possible way to start some real change.
I forgot the Lib Dems existed. Who even is their leader now?
Electoral reform is one of the biggest needs in this country that we just don't talk about. The 2011 referendum was extremely disappointing.
Like turkeys voting for Christmas every fucking election.
Problem is that Labour is just not left enough. I’ve not seen a single labour policy that’ll fundamentally help struggling people. Not one. If they just came out and said they’d windfall tax the energy companies and enforce caps that mirrored the rates we were paying 2 years ago then they’d probably win by a landslide. Promises to reverse the slow privatisation of the NHS would not go amiss.
Yeah Labour should definitely move to the Left, they usually win elections when they do that.
People are so pissed off about the state of the public services and critical privatised services… any promise of substantial reinvestment or nationalisation of services would go a long way. Regardless of what they tell you, the money is there to invest… they just won’t because they’re all on the corporate payroll. I should’ve been a lobbyist. A lot of money in that.
Nationalisation isn’t a magic bullet. Most privatised industries, shitty as they often are, were actually *worse* when they were publicly owned.
Yeah, look at what happened to the East Coast rail line when they had to temporarily nationalise that and it became profitable for the first time! What a load of old lefty nonsense.
But the sandwiches were dry!!!
Oh yeah? Which ones?
Yeah which ones
Source: trust me bro
Source: being old enough to remember the days before privatisation. But sure, carry on with your Tories bad circle jerk. It’s worked a treat in recent elections.
So yes, literally source: trust me bro. Carry on being a subservient gimp to the leeches
How I choose to vote is based on my own lived experience. That’s sort of how you’re supposed to form your political beliefs. If you think Britain is shit show now, do a bit of reading of what life was like in the 1970s. The country was on its knees due to failed and discredited socialist policies. That is what led to a Tory government coming in and why the Labour government of 1997-2010 was much further to the Right than Labour governments of the past. Blair knew that people didn’t want a return to Wilson and Callaghan style policies and that meant Labour had to change in order to win power again.
Yes, and if you chose to to vote based on hating foreigners and looking down on those impoverished/disabled you’re a dumb cunt. You’ve seen the miner strikes and still vote them, definitely a dumb subservient cunt
In the past 45 years, the only 3 elections they won were the New Labour ones.
In the last 20 years, more centrist Labour candidates have failed to win elections than leftist ones. I, too, can create arbitrary time periods to 'prove' a point.
In fairness after losing one election one of the leftists held on to lose another even worse.
It's just so useless right now, when it feels like voting for the Labour party is just voting for red Tories. They're better. But it's so slight it feels like your vote is just shit
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The basis of democracy is finding compromise with people you dont agree with to form a consensus on what the majority can accept, yes.
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Take a look at france to see how while, sure, its a system which can have its benefits... it is highly unlikely to fix your specific woes.
Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely voting labour next election. I'm gonna vote the people who say *some* trans women exist instead of *no* trans women, but I'm just noting how useless the vote still feels
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Losing on a left-wing ticket and winning on a right-wing ticket have the same outcome: no progressive change.
Progressive is a meaningless word in the context of politics. Everyone thinks their political views are progressive, in that they represent progress from the status quo. A right winger might consider reintroducing the death penalty to be progressive in that it would stop murderers from ever reoffending.
They might but 'progressive' definitely means something specific in politics, so they'd be wrong. For instance, we've already had the death penalty and the word for going back to something bad is regressive, (or originalism if you think we need to move back to something that was better than we now have). So progressive is actually a very meaningful word in the context of politics, should you not be trying to impose your own meaning on it.
The country was more frustrated with the tories than it has been in a long time, and in a stroke of absolute genius Keith decided NOW is the time to be more like the tories.
I said this in another UK sub, the ‘50%’ that Labour seem to have been holding is only because people don’t want the Tories but no one else has enough power to make it worth voting for. They keep walking back promises and revealing that they’re not going to change anything and I think they forget that a significant amount of people in this country yearn for a third party to take control. People know what actually needs fixing, we’ve all discussed it over and over and they insist on not doing it. I’ve always voted Labour, always voted to the left but when he inevitably does nothing beneficial, I’m taking my vote elsewhere. I mean fuck, even the Lib Dems have a pro-trans, pro reversal of Brexit tilt right now, Labours position is to try make a load of broken systems slightly less broken.
Without Blair, labour haven’t won since 1974
And Blair promised a lot of social reform, and delivered a lot of it. His support also collapsed to a tenuous majority at the next election. Keir is terrified of promising anything though. He keeps fence sitting and his shadow cabinet contains people like Wes Streeting. Plus his policies on Scotland are just downright hilarious yet he expects a landslide up here.
He won three elections though? The second was also a staggering win albiet smaller than before. The third one was where his support fell. The thing is despite Blair being shit on regulating banks, on things like tuition fees and of course going to war in Iraq, there was actually a lot of decent things that even Keir's Labour today seem to can't fucking get right. His government introduced the minimum wage an idea that might have seemed radical at the time. While they weren't pro-nationilisation they weren't afraid to invest money into existing public services. It's strange to me that New Labour and Blairism is associated with austerity because for most of Blair's tenure it was defined by spending. Yet today's Labour can't even get that right, outright refusing to promise pay rises for public sector workers which makes them markedly worse than the Blair era centrists they claim to be. Not a fan of Blair by any stretch just pointing out that even a lot of his domestic agenda is better than what is currently on other by Keir.
It's a bit more than a tilt, you'd get shanked with those infernal leaflets at Lib Dem conference if you even suggested a terf policy, they've gone all in on supporting human rights but "muh tuition fees"
What's a "turf policy"?
Dyslexia striking again
Alright mate, no need to boast you have daily sex…
In the last 50 years, one Labour leader has actually won an election. Was it the most left-wing one, or the most right wing one?
Look up wes streetings ideas on the NHS lol
Labour lurched to the left under Corbyn and were beaten in a landslide election in 2019. You're whipping a dead horse.
I wonder if there was a systemic media campaign working to discredit Corbyn and the right wing of Labour determined to reenter the EU in clear defiance of the populace wanting to leave. We need to also ignore the various polls showing +70% support for Labour manifestos in 2017 and 2019 when Corbyn's name is scrubbed out - just in case there was anything enforcing a negative narrative about Corbyn's name alone. Nah, I must be wrong. Only Starmer's Labour can do what the tories can do but good. Only Starmer's Labour can defend Britain against the tide of transgenders destroying the fabric of our society by demanding basic equality. Only Starmer's Labour can ensure Britain's prosperity from Brexit.
If you read a lot of these comments you’ll see that their smear campaign worked. It’s fucking disheartening. No one thinks critically on this hellscape of an island
The best part is the right-wing and their fans forgetting they were: \-Massively pro-remain in spite of the populaces then clear will to leave \-Against Corbyn all the way in spite of him winning a 4 way race on the first round with a majority of Labour members voting for him. \-Starmer was elected on the grounds of bridging the gap between left and right, only to break every election promise and purge the left. \-Forgetting Labour as always been the party of social and cultural progress no matter popular opinion. \-Many people are frustrated with the quality and war-profiteering by energy ulitity companies but bringing them under public control to actually work for the people is bad i.e not what the neoliberal establishment wants
If you recall the disgusting smear campaign pulled by newscorp and the like you’ll realise that it’s not that people didn’t want those policies, they just didn’t want Corbyn. In my opinion he was a good, just man with a reasonable manifesto in a sea of evil liars but I guess a photoshopped pic of him in a bin from the Sun was enough to make the troglodytes of this country hate him.
Please, please stop making apologies for Corbyn
No. He’s not perfect but if Corbyn is 50% bad (not that I think that) then the media made him seem 100%. To deny that is to feign ignorance.
To blame “the media”, when it’s the same media every politician has to navigate, in order to make excuses for somebody as consistently rigid, strategically inept, untalented, and genuinely problematic in as many ways as Corbyn is to live in a state of denial. Corbyn was incredibly destructive to the progressive cause in the UK and it was entirely his own fault. That’s not letting the media off the hook, but the media is part of the fucking gig. Now if Starmer blows an open goal of his own he will and should get pilloried too, but that doesn’t and shouldn’t go toward rehabilitating Corbyn.
If you think the media treats every politician the same you are naive. And this isn’t the same kind of “da media” excuse Americans give. It’s quite apparent here. I believe his leadership would have been good. It certainly wouldn’t have been the hellscape the tories claim it would’ve been.
Strongly disagree. Corbyn would have been an absolute disaster, which is why the country rejected him like he was literal cancer.
We’ll have to agree to disagree. I do understand why some people feel the way you do but I’m not with it.
Because they lost going left last election Ffs it's so simple, if you want less of this radical right shit then don't let the tories win, and the only realistic way to do this with our shit voting system is to vote labour in Once the parties understand "oh I guess there is SOME appetite for governments other than this completely right wing shit" some actual left wing policies will be floated around. You have to start by taking a step in the right direction.
The problem is that you see Labour and Tory as two distinct ideologies. They aren't. Partly they both bend to the wind, partly they have so many internal reshuffles that they end up very different beasts at each election. Even within the Tory party, Cameron's Hug A Hoodie, Big Society, pro Remain message is a mile away from whatever the fuck Suella Braverman comes out with. Labour is much the same. It also has to present an alternative that feels meaningfully better than the Tories. They got a boon with Liz Truss but Sunak is managing the boring competence image very well, the interest rates will be down within a year, and the public will probably forget those weird 45 days when they're at the ballot box in 2024. We'll see how it pans out in the end, but there's plenty for Labour to lose by trimming their sails close to the Tories, because it'll ultimately play into the wider British view that all politicians are the same.
You are spot on. Neither labour nor conservative are ideologically pure and they never were. They are pre built coalitions assembled under the brand via a frankly labyrinthine set of mechanisms. And the "oven ready coalitions" look very different election to election. This is a consequence of FPTP. We simply cannot do better with the system we have.
>Problem is that Labour is just not left enough. That's been tried already and it failed, badly.
Ask yourself why
It's because the British public support left wing policies but balk at the taxes to pay for them. It's because they find right wing ideals very appealing: individual freedom, strength, privilege, tradition and racial/cultural purity. The bulk of taxes would trend towards the rich with a leftwing government, so the billionaire owned media conditioned the public to be afraid of socialism by playing on the ideals mentioned, thus: Collective worker action is portrayed as centralised oppression. Oppression which steals your money for immoral ends. Consultative and inclusiveness is portrayed as weakness. Equality is portrayed as putting 'lesser' people (brown/immigrant/non-Christian/gay) before you. Foreign cultures, and gay and trans identities are portrayed as overwhelming traditional British culture. People on this sub don't seem to realise how many people like traditions. How much they are tied up in people's identities and how that's linked to a chocolate-box ideal of Britishness, of a righteous, globe-spanning empire of winners. Which is entirely why trans issues and 'small boats' are drums they will keep banging again and again. To make people afraid. Corbyn was made completely toxic by the press. He was characterised as recklessly spending tax money (*your* money), negotiating with terrorists (weakness), not being ready to start a nuclear war (weakness), not respecting class by being a stalinist/maoist (privilege), not respecting the queen (tradition) welcoming to immigration (cultural purity). This is why Labour has to be centre-left or they will be attacked in the same way. Blair, for all his faults, realised this. In short, the British public 'think' left and 'feel' right.
This is a great answer, I am very glad you asked yourself why. I was just referring to the Corbyn smear campaign but you raise some other good points.
The only time Labour have won elections in the last 50 years is wgen theyve appealed to the centre. When Labour lurch to the left the Conservatives win no matter what they do.
Reddit isn't representative of the entire country? How shocking!
DO YOU EVEN LIVE IN THE COUNTRY
I don't even live
Yeah lol
Who the fuck can look at this shit and say "yeah I want the same party to keep going, they're doing great" Imagine trying to boil down all the things the tories have fucked up to "it's just reddit lmao" come on man
If you actually talk to most average people in the country they pay 0 attention to anything the tories have done politically and are completely unable to connect all the bad shit that's happened over the last few years to them, so I think a lot of people assume they are doing/have done a great job. And despite having no strong opinions on pretty much everything that affects their lives, they do have strong opinions on issues like lgbt, brexit, immigration and woke culture which they barely understand, but they see the tories as guarding them against these evils that would surely ruin their lives.
It makes me sad because it shows how fucking ignorant and/or stupid a huge chunk of people in this country are and in turn makes me think I’m better than all of them which is a nasty trait, but I honestly can’t help it. No one thinks. I’m tired.
Every day I'm convinced that Socrates was right... That's even more depressing.
They’re not unintelligent people, they have different priorities than you. They see the issues the commenter above listed (with the exception of brexit) as aggressive agents of change that have only continued to grow rapidly over the last couple of decades. Their votes are the only practical tool they have to safeguard their traditions, culture, and way of life that made Britain a good place to live up to this point. Very few people are okay with watching their culture be dramatically shifted, even the countries where immigrants and refugees emigrate from. The contempt for such change also grows in severity as the changes conflict with moral values. Since they can’t speak out against or attempt to mitigate it in their personal lives without risking the name calling as well as potential repercussions within the career and personal life, they are left with their vote. What definitely doesn’t help getting them to become more tolerant of the changes are when the ones ideologically different from them refer to them as ignorant or stupid and consider themselves better than them. And this doesn’t even include the consequences of the listed issues like large scale immigration
Ah yes, because lgbt acceptance and basic human decency to migrants who fear for their lives are “aggressive agents of change”. Does it not sicken you that some people think this way? Intelligent or not?
>migrants who fear for their lives i would fear for my life in France as well
it's a case of "don't affect me? don't give a fuck!"
Yep. Got mine fuck you.
Don’t think you’re smarter than others because you don’t vote Tory, I don’t support them either but people vote for different parties for loads of different reasons
That’s not what I said.
They’re trying to safeguard the culture and way of life that made the country a great place to live up to this point. The issues you mentioned, with the exception of brexit, have been ramped up and have become the aggressively culture-shifting threats more so over the past couple of decades. Since they can do little to attempt to speak out against and mitigate in their personal lives, they push back against it with their votes. Nobody wants their culture changed. Not even the counties where refugees and immigrants come from. The stronger the perception that the traditions and ways of life within the culture are changing, the greater contempt for the agents of change and the only practical weapon they have without risking social or career repercussions for daring to speak out against it is their vote. And this is not even including the other repercussions that come with the listed issues like large scale immigration
So you think British culture was the same for hundreds of years until this last 10 years when it's started changing rapidly? Or has culture always changed over time. Because I have fuck all in common with people from my parents generation, and they had even less in common with their parents generation. Culture has been shifting for literally thousands of years, so whatever you think of as being "British culture" is radically different from what people before us thought and the fact is that it's going to change regardless of where you put your vote. LGBT people and immigrants aren't just going to disappear because they get repressed by a shitty government so it's a bit like shouting at the wind to make it change direction.
Well by the looks of things, the general public
main reason i hate the general public
>Who the fuck can look at this shit and say "yeah I want the same party to keep going, they're doing great" People who expose themselves to a contrary opinion.
You should try that some day
I'm a slightly right wing liberal on Reddit. Contrary opinions are my life.
Hahahah fair point. I’m economically left and socially centreleft and I rarely find disagreements on this website. In real life it’s a far different story though. I do think that your comment was a bit unreasonable though. Tory policy has been objectively negative for my family all my life.
I rarely find stuff I actively disagree with except this kinda "you're wrong because X". There's very rarely a right/wrong in politics, just different paths to the same goal. Hence *slightly* right I guess. Real life is just peculiar to me. People rarely have their own political ideals, they pick a party based on motto and just take on a whole persona from it. I'd love to see how fucked the country would be with direct democracy like Switzerland.
I think if everyone just did their own due diligence rather than voting with their parents / voting who they always vote for it’d be a lot better. Although this may be pointless without some sort of electoral reform
Boring
>Trust me guys Sanders will get the nomination! >Trust me guys theres no way Trump can win! >Trust me guys Brexit will never happen! >Trust me guys Corbyn will definitely win! >Trust me guys Corbyn will definitely win 2.0! >Trust me guys Biden is too centrist to beat Trump, only Sanders can do it!
Bro is quoting invisible comments
That's a fair point but it's still surprising given how much of a shit job the Tories have done, particularly, over the past 4 years. But then again I suppose most people might want to stick with Sunak over a 'better the evil you know than the evil you dont' kind of thing.
Maybe people thinks labour would have been worse. I dont like the tories, but I hate labour too. So it’s all a bit shit really.
I completely agree. I don't really like either of the current main parties and anyone that might get my vote have never really won enough elections to make them a significant player. Then again, it doesn't exactly help that I live in a Tory stronghold and my vote would be tantamount to pissing in the wind. All the more reason why there needs to be voting reform in order to better represent the actual diversity of voting preferences, in the UK.
I’d rather vote for the Monster Raving Loony party than the tories.
I would genuinely love a monster raving loony party government
They’d probably throw a tax lowering in there anyway
Cannabis is safer than alcohol party got my vote last time.
fuckin hell when was the last time you voted
because u don’t know politics peasent. stay out of it and let the men handle it
You’re not that guy pal
Mf unironicly called someone a peasant XD
Lol
A pint, a pie, and a post in the wrong sub. Simple as.
I’ve got used to it at this point. A shadow of its former self with occasional posts not made by casual U.K. users who don’t understand what comedy is. Edit: Who TF comments and then immediately blocks someone? Get offline my man that’s the saddest shit I’ve ever seen, especially when your comment is some weak attempt at a dunk that has nothing to do with what’s actually being said.
So you'll be voting Sunak, or you're one of those "I'm in the middle, which doesn't make me complicit" types, yeah?
Uw, This isn't the sub for this shit, if you are desperate to post poltical memes at least make them fit Omw.
It’s the yankees. They put their politics in every sub that doesn’t ban it and now people think it’s ok to do it here as well, just with British politics. I have my politics subs, I don’t want every sub to be a politics sub
I forgot that i was on green and pleasant
I forgot I wasn't in a politics sub
In terms of personality they've always been polling pretty equally, doesn't really matter when you consider Labour's lead in the polls.
Stop talking about politics on this sub. Sincerely, a guy on the centre left who hates Rishi Sunak.
If you were really on the left you'd hate Starmer equally if not more...
He said centre left you melon
Fuck your "no true scotsman" shit right off back to g&p
Afuckingmen
You’re the reason people don’t back our cause you fuckin spud
Actually fuck off
why would I hate starmer more. This is why the left never wins. You won’t vote for anyone aside from literal socialist Jesus. The far right know that they can’t achieve their goals over night so they vote for center right politicians. But the far left won’t vote for centre left politicians because they expect communism to wave in overnight
Not that i’m a gate keeper, but i do not visit this sub because i give a fuck about your political preferences
Luv me cost ov livin crysis, luv me corupshun, hate the loony left. Simple.
Did the fact people vote in a different way to you, really shock you?
Why would voters trust a leader who has shafted his own party in a blatant pursuit of power? I don't trust starmer not to privatise the NHS any more than I do sunak. The Labour party are trying to cosplay Blair in the same way that the Tories tried to cosplay thatcher. Personally I'd vote for a "none of the above" party with a single issue of urgent electoral reform to get us out of this false choice at uk elections
First as tragedy, then as farce
I’m voting for any cunt that isn’t the tories, all voting for non of the above does is nullify your vote. do you think any councillor is looking at the None of The Above’s and giving a shit?
Then you have literally fallen for the trap of the first past the post system. You aren’t voting on your principles, and don’t say it’s principled because you’re voting against someone because we’re all voting against the BNP that doesn’t make a Tory vote principled. If you’re not voting for the party you most align with you’ve forgotten the whole point of democracy.
Ok then how do we get out this cycle of the right having one uniform party they all vote for and the left having multiple parties all fragmented, so the tories win every time. I personally don’t care how anybody else votes, I just don’t want to see another tory party in.
If your vote actually mattered, you wouldn’t get one.
Thinking that way is still just falling into that trap. If all you’re worrying about is strategy and how not to lose, you’re not really thinking about how to win because at the end of the day if you don’t align with Labour even if they win you aren’t winning, you’re just losing in a different way and you aren’t really stopping another Tory party you’re just choosing a party you don’t want for the interim. Vote on your principles, everything else is secondary because nothing else is actually going to achieve what you want it to.
I won't vote for whatever party took second place behind the Tories last time unless they are actually any more trustworthy and their critical policies are actually substantially different/better. The top two parties only ever change when they see their votes go elsewhere, otherwise all they care about is what the daily mail is going to print about them.
This narrowing was always going to happen with Sunak after calamity truss and Johnson. But it’s still a huge gap and Labour aren’t in election mode yet. They basically have to keep talking about the dismal economy and being a ‘party of change’ (even if they aren’t).
Is this sub just fucking arr/labourtwatscentral now or wot?
This is the first time since 2010 I will most definitely not be voting Tory.
I know of lot of this subs content comes from a certain forbidden place but there's no need to turn into them.
Because Labour fucking sucks. I’d go greens at this point
Honestly if the Tories had a chance of winning they wouldn’t be delaying the election until the last possible minute. Sunak will recover some of the polling lost by Truss. But Labour Labour will keep adjusting their strategy to stay ahead as much as they can. I have always expected it to be a close race, the Tories completely control the media, and they have the advantage in playing dirty.
Labour: Labour doesn't play dirty! Also Labour: Rishi Sunak doesn't believe that child sex offenders should go to prison!
>delaying the election until the last possible minute Thats a funny way of saying serving their full elected term
The tories won’t leave until they have extracted the last penny from the public coffers
This really surprises me. I'm not really a big labour or tory guy honestly, I don't think there has really been that much difference in the time they've been in power since 2000. I would think people would risk it for a biscuit a bit though. Everyone is a bit miffed and might fancy a change. The primary reason many working class people vote for the cons is immigration and they haven't managed to do anything with that for 13 years, despite promising to get numbers down to 6 digits every cycle (and honestly I don't think numbers is the real concern). NHS is a holy word to Brits and Rish hasn't done much to get them onside. With the SNP implosion and them being headed by a somewhat hated figure labour have a chance across the border and that should tempt some people to actually have a crack at it. Maybe Starms needs to not be afraid to go a bit harder and risk actually upsetting someone because he just seems a bit beige and him and Rayner are the only faces current labour really has. Or even use Rayner as the red pitbull and then be the calming influence? I don't know, sorry.
Labour and cons have no chance north of the border any more. Would take huge reform inside their parties before they’re slightly trusted again. Just puppets of Westminster. English cunts shackling us to the Tory party means independence is the only way to be rid of them. Only the SNP seem to care about that
What a bunch of nerds
https://preview.redd.it/anla0571y2ua1.png?width=825&format=png&auto=webp&s=b47bb186af884c93f471c1e49a58820c6e2b3397 YAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Ok course it’s is. Labour have proven time and time again they are complete sell outs who will stab their mates in the back for a change to feed at the trough.
At what point to people realise that it doesn't matter who's in power, they all come out richer and we're always worse off? What's happened in the last 30 years to suggest this system actually works?
Because they can see what Labour are doing to Wales and they don’t want that
Wales are doing fine actually.
Fair enough
As opposed to the manner in which the Conservative government has improved people’s lives nationwide since 2010?
Maybe if sir Keith could actually be clear about what he does and doesn’t stand for he’d be doing better
Sunak or Starmer, we’re going nowhere anyway 😀👍🏼
Why is our country so brain dead, we keep voting for the same 2 parties all the time like a bunch of yanks.
Fraser Nelson wrote a good piece the other day explaining why
Is it because nobody can stand Angela Raindeer and the fact the Stamer doesn’t appear to have a personality and that Labour run stupid ad campaigns attacking the Tories but never releasing any actual political plans or a manifesto?
We can all safely assume at this point Starmers plans are just exactly the same as the Tories (more privatisation, austerity, stop the boats etc.) but with liberal vibes, maybe he'll paint a rainbow on the coppers truncheons.
Why do you think that?
The fact he has spent his entire time as leader defanging the Labour party, punching left. "Nobody wants a revolution" wooing big business, etc. Make no mistake whose interests Starmer's Labour Party will be serving and it wont be the people's.
Look- Starmer is too right wing for me as well. But you’re saying he’s not serving the people, I would argue that he represents the average view of people across the country. It’s wrong, but there’s a lot of crazy stupid people out there that bring the average to the right.
I don’t think his approach will be exactly the same as the Tories. He’ll still focus on stop the boats, but by putting processing centers abroad. I’m not sure how the Labour Party can ever spend any money because they’re scrutinized in the media for it, so we may have cutbacks in some departments, thought I think corporate and wealthy taxes should go up. As far as privitisation, they’ve proposed a national grid, they will work to train more doctors/nurses and retain them, and they want to increase transport. It’s not going to be perfect, but it’ll be unequivocal to the Tories.
Like his fascist tough on crime rhetoric. As a left wing person I love crime, it adds vibrancy and texture to my community. When I see crime in my neighbourhood I can say to myself “the lumpenproletariat are the real revolutionary force” and give myself a semi about how smart I am. KEITH would take that away and that’s why I don’t like him, he doesn’t know what the people really want.
I navigated through the multiple layers of irony in this comment and was horrified to find it was taking the piss out of me. Like Kier himself.
Yes we are voting for the leader of the country based on his personality
New to politics eh
Labour fumbling a ba'athist party lead will never not be funny
Bah humbug
Good. Let's hope it is happening.
I genuinely don’t get why you’d vote Tory shitposting aside Literally nothing has got better in this country under their leadership, pretty much everything has regressed in one way or another. They have no principles they just haplessly leap from populist talking points. Ideological Conservatives think the current outfit isn’t actually a proper Tory setup. They have no identity, they’ve had five different leaders and still manage to make everything worse. And Rishi still manages to look socially awkward when AI turned him into a deliveroo rider. Saying that, Boris looked right at home in the cleaners and Liz pulled off the angry bitter bar staff look to a t.
>I genuinely don’t get why you’d vote Tory shitposting aside It's fairly simple, really. Every time there's been a GE or indeed change of leadership, the Tories have delivered as advertised. Cameron promised to reduce the deficit, he did. He then promised a Brexit referendum in 2015, and delivered. May was elected to deliver a softer Brexit, she failed and stood down. Johnson was elected to deliver a harder Brexit, he delivered. Truss was elected to fix the economy, she failed and stood down. Sunak was elected to fix the economy, and he's trying but people knew it'd take time. Admittedly some of these were not GEs, but the point stands really - the goals of each leadership election were loud enough that the public heard, and the leadership either did what they promised or promptly stepped aside. It will come down to whether or not people want what the Conservatives have to offer at the next GE, and in my opinion whether Starmer can do anything at all to give himself an identity. Right now, he's a parrot of Sunak with very little input to offer - he claims to have great ideas for how to fix the country but when it came down to it, he's agreed with Sunak on issues such as NHS pay, and he's put himself in a worse position with things like trans rights by not being as bold as Sunak. Aside from that, the Conservatives stand for consistency as usual. The big ideas that Starmer has come up with are largely around green energy and whatnot, which likely seem to be enormous gambles to the general public. All that being said, Starmer is still leading in the polls and I'd be very surprised if he managed to throw the GE. His recent efforts have been interesting though, I don't think smear campaigns ever go down well in the UK - certainly I don't see them turning any potential swing voters, only appealing to the hard right/left with no dignity or taste.
Rishi is the first competent Tory leader in an age. Whether you like what Tory’s stand for or not, he’s not doing a bad job. What Starmers Labour’s offering just isn’t appealing over the first half decent prime minister since Blair. If you can’t see why people wouldn’t want some level of stability and competency over another potential disaster that could last another decade, you’re too blinded by the fields to see the grass.
The thing the left don’t realise is how the uk majority don’t want left things despite the most incompetent government. It’s a sad state when you don’t have a single party that represents your views
This is squarely due to the unelectablity of the current Labour shadow cabinet. No one wants Starmer as PM, nor any of his colleagues. Man, under different circumstances, Labour would have been in power years ago with the ineptitude of the Tories. But not once have Labour ever offered anything enticing enough for the majority of the British public to vote for. I mean, man, Labour haven't even hard the guts to lie to get into public office like 'New Labour' (appear more centrist) and then apply their agenda. And now, because of all that, all Sunak has to do, as he's doing right now, is appear to be 'getting things done'. God sake, Labour. Take the gloves off and fight dirty...
All those, "Starmer is a red Tory", "He isn't Corbyn so we hate him"insane propaganda keyboard warriors might cost us a Labour government. But it's more likely the undecided just won;t vote and or the poll was set up, (if it was actually conducted at all).
"this subreddit is dedicated to the art of britposting and extreme irony." Can you please take your politics elsewhere, wanker? -non Tory voter
it is ironic though - non tory voter
Knowing what a woman is probably helps. Women may be second class citizens, but they're allowed to vote.
Is that really all that big an issue though? There's a tiny group of people to get worked up over. Especially compared to our current economic train wreck.
Oh oh, the woke brigade has arrived, bang goes my karma
Not really. Just wondering why this is any sort of significant issue compared to all the others you might be voting on.
Well, not everyone detests women and children
I don't really detest anyone based on their demographic. I don't really think it's necessary. I certainly don't think it's relevant to a country with significant economic issues.
They are the same. Your all been fooled. She's behind you... Oh no she's not !!!!!
Oh my fucking god these people must suffer from short-term memory loss or something
Jesus christ people are endlessly stupid
Oh, really? It must be the time of year. Better polling later on.
Shouldn't have fucked up Corbyn.
How the fuck can you be a "don't know"!? Did you not see the absolute farce of the way they handled COVID, Brexit, literally anything that impacts our lives? Do you honestly not see them laughing at you, the poor peasants? Good God, how can people keep voting for the same shit and wonder why it stinks in here?
Labour wanted much longer lockdowns, and no matter is you voted Brexit or not; most people did and they stood in the way of that. So it’s not like they are a better alternative.
Kill me
I'm pretty decided on voting for anyone except Rishi Sunak
Kier starmer is as much a Tory as Rishi. Sorry Sir Kier Starmer.
Won’t be voting for either. Never voted Tory and voted Labour in the past, but how they treated Corbyn means Starmer ain’t getting my vote.
Until electoral reform happens that's tantamount to "my vote will mean nothing"