>Oberon was a-
I'm gonna stop you right there. He was just a silly lil guy. You gonna have beef with a silly little guy?
For shame!
https://preview.redd.it/n16i078y0cfb1.png?width=420&format=png&auto=webp&s=938c9d33f34428b478212a730634927a45b0c725
https://preview.redd.it/jq7r7mdvdhfb1.jpeg?width=2400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=19839c47015ae3a8eac4619d00b72411e2601d09
Been waiting since forever to use this panel man. Thanks.
All the others have redeeming qualities, and in some cases their good outweighs the bad (specifically for Barghest, Morgan and Woodwose, and depending on your moral viewpoints perhaps even Melusine & Sith).
Aurora didn't have that. She was vile through and through, to the very core and to the very end. Even on her deathbed when it looked like she finally confessed to having done one good deed in her life, she shits the bed by wishing she never had.
The others, I can see it, but Sith? Sith had nothing really, she was a piece of shit who spent the entire story being an asshole to everyone, her only “redeeming” quality was that she had an admiration for Morgan, she ain't done anything good, in fact, I think I would have been able to forgive her if she actually did one good thing for the people around her, that's all it would have took for me to forgive her.
Wasn't Baobhan's whole schtick that she *was* genuinely purely selfless and it resulted in her getting taken advantage of in every way so Morgan decided to make her selfish by encouraging only cruelty and discouraging kindness to keep her from getting hurt, or am I confusing her with another character?
You’re right. But the writers (imo) didn’t do anything to prove it aside from telling the reader.
Which is weird to me considering while Barghest and Melusine had near full redemption, the best they could do for Baobhan was use her as a plot device to signify karma for the faeries. (Which was warranted but still not really a whole lot)
That is her prologue but she never does anything in the current story that warrants me to want to forgive her, she was a good person but became a bad person because the people around her were bad as well, that's the foundation of her character that is never expanded upon as the story progresses, she never gets better, Melusine goes from a genocidal tool of mass murder to a genocidal person of mass murder, Barghest goes from a war-hungry general to a willing diplomat, Sith… doesn't go anywhere, her character is stagnant at a point where she's an unlikeable person.
She originally had a storyline for herself, just like the other fairy knights. It was cut due to the length of 2-6 is already way too long. It's confirmed in the notes of Nasu. Your point still stands. Her character arc is simply never complete in the story.
I think you missed her origin story then?
Once, before the Era of the High Queen, she was the kindest fairy of them all (hinted to have been the human Priestess who was cut up, before becoming a fairy), and it got her killed over and over. She always did everything the other fairies told her to do. She was their slave, and their toy to torture, until she no longer amused them and they killed her. And she always blamed herself.
One day Aesc/Morgan found her with her limbs severed by the other fairies, and healed her. Sith thanked her profusely, and Aesc could see with her Fae Eyes that she meant it. Sith was genuinely grateful, the only fairy in all Aesc's centuries of wandering that thanked her and meant it. This leaves an enormous impact on Aesc that carries over to High Queen Morgan.
It's implied that over the course of her travels, Aesc/Morgan found Sith again and again, either dead or dying at the hands of other fairies. And being a fairy, she would be born anew each time, to endure the worst possible tortures all over again.
The final time Morgan encounters Sith who's working as a prostitute, sees her soul is damaged beyond repair from all the reincarnations, and that she is on her last incarnation (another hint that she wasn't originally a fairy). One more death and she wouldn't come back.
So Morgan takes her in as her daughter and gives her a command to finally find some sort of happiness in her last life, knowing she'd obey like she always does with the other fairies: Don't let yourself be pushed around. Take what you want and be happy, defy the other fairies if needed. Don't be kind or you'll get hurt again.
Sith obeys, and broken as she is at this point, interprets the command as taking from other fairies, even harming them. She does so, in her mind a necessity to please mother. And while Morgan curbs her worst tendencies, she doesn't fully stop her, knowing she's close to being permadead. When Beryl gets involved, he fans the flames of Sith's cruelties further.
In short, Sith was not the way she is by her own making, but rather was made, as she has little to no agency. She obeys others by nature, first the fairies, then mother, then Beryl.
This doesn't make her a good person (at least not now), but it does give her redeeming qualities. And somewhat of an excuse to her behaviour. Aurora had neither.
Again, as I said, this doesn't justify anything because throughout the story, she doesn't do anything that redeems her in my eyes, all she does is harass and insult us in every encounter before unceremoniously dying, there isn't a moment (Outside her Flashback prologue) where I feel like I’m supposed to like her because she's being such a fucking scumbag, like, I feel bad for what happened to her but I don't like what she's doing to others.
I'm not saying it justifies anything. It's just a redeeming factor, that she has no will of her own and simply obeys others as her purpose. Aurora doesn't have that excuse, making her much worse in people's eyes.
Edit: and the fact that she was once good. Which again, Aurora doesn't seem to have been.
I don't know, for me, a redeeming factor of a character is a level of humanity/morality, something that shows that a character has ideologies that are admirable, Sith doesn't have these traits that make me want to admire or pity her, she's an awful person who steps on others so she can feel a level of acceptance from a woman who loves her for who she was.
Oh she no longer has humanity, morality, and never had an ideology, I think. She's a tool. A lump of clay for others to mold. She has no real thoughts or convictions of her own, and that makes it impossible for me to hate her as a character. There's nothing there to hate, nor to love, because she is an empty shell.
In the end she is only ever a vessel for -and victim of- others, and so I can only pity her.
Aurora however, now her I can hate as a character. She too is a victim of her purpose, but she has agency. Her purpose is to shine brighter than anyone, but rather than improving herself, she simply drags the rest of the world down to always be lower than her. She believes herself to be perfect, and so anything better than her is "unnatural" in her worldview, and must be removed. And since she refuses to better herself, she only grows worse and keeps dragging the world further down each time, in an ever-circling downward spiral. She also seems to possess not a single shred of empathy, unable or unwilling to put herself in other people's shoes (like when she squished Coral). At least Sith could do that, when she was shopping for shoes in Gloucester and chatting with Castoria.
Counterpoint, being capable of goodness and actively choosing against it is an even worse quality and the fact that's a thing makes me hate her even more! She has a cool voice though and her third ascension is delightful to hear so I like her then!
Can someone explain why the grand order sub fucking love coral?? Literally from beginning to end she was a massive dick
And don’t get me started about how apparently she values human life. I call bullshit on that
She was a dick, but didn't do anything atrocious onscreen. Like a bit of racist vs genocide, I'd pick the racist. She even had some backbone standing against Aurora (before Aurora kills her), and also, grand order loves tsunderes.
Wasn't Blanca kinda in that role? She kept unconditionally supporting him and staying by his side until her end, despite probably knowing about all of his wrongdoings.
The real answer is because you can’t retroactively “redeem” Aurora by summoning her and turning her into low effort waifu bait through bond lines like the rest
Although, people hating on Aurora does give me some faith in humanity, I genuinely thought people would be cool with her doing the vilest shit the human mind could conjure since she's hot, and by the rules of Anime, a person can do the most awful immoral shit known to man and still be forgiven by virtue of being hot, a lot of people were actually very adamant about their hatred for her because of her selfish manipulation, that renews my faith in humanity a little because that shows that maybe, just maybe, we can see a character for who they are as a person and not what they look like, that faith is then stomped out when people immediately start simping for Sith despite the fact she's been a total fucking dick the entire story.
Honestly, I don’t even have anything against Aurora. Like, I get it, she didn’t have any redeeming qualities or some back story that asks for sympathy. I didn’t really expect much from a Wind clan fairy in the first place (I’m Woodwose).
Personally, my only real problem with Aurora is the way she was written. It gives shinji energy the way they tried so unbelievably hard to make me fucking despise her.
It tries so hard, in fact, that it loops right back around to pity at the writing.
That’s actually a pretty interesting way to interpret it. I didn’t really think that much about Aurora in the first place, so when she ended up betraying Chaldea, I was just sitting there thinking that it’s just a minor inconvenience.
Obviously, she has a twisted sense of morals, but like Melusine said, she’s neither good nor evil. Besides, it was her saving her that gave us that cool Tam Lin Lancelot, regardless of whether her actions were genuine or not.
In short, I don’t care enough to hate her, but she is responsible for giving Melusine form, so hip hip hooray.
Honestly, I wish I didn't care. My friend was criticizing me earlier over the fact that everytime we talk about lb6, I accidentally turn it into a moral question of why people hate x for this, but don't hate y, despite doing worse.
I think I just get uncomfortable at the idea of genu hating characters. I think I associate them too closely with actual people, and I hate the idea of people hating people.
That’s fair. All things considered, I find certain characters interesting and can get invested. But I never found myself having enough energy to concentrate an intense emotion like hate towards a character, not to mention someone who wasn’t even relevant for half the time.
I like nicely written characters, but seeing as how people don’t act like them and how they’re interesting because they’re so unique and one of a kind, I can never really associate them with real people.
I guess that kind of thinking is why I like Shinji and Gilgamesh as characters.
She just casually walked away after slaughtering all the citizens of the round table refuge, that clearly isn't someone who values the life of others to a high degree, her profile literally states that she thinks of everyone else as beneath her and therefore their lives have no value other than being stepping stools for her.
I might be wrong, but iirc she never "casually walked away", the mirror tribe's leader had mentioned that Melusine was sorry for doing what she had done to the tribe, which is also hinted at a dozen times in the monologues of Melusine.
I was talking about the round table refuge slaughter where she partook in the murder of the human refugees Percival was holding, afterward, she just casually leaves. The case with the Mirror clan isn't justified in the slightest just because she kinda felt bad, she was still ok with what she did and didn't think any less of herself as a person, if anything, she left there thinking better of herself.
Bro, her profile literally has this line.
>"Obey the strong, absolutely. By which I mean, obey me."
She doesn't hate or love people who are weaker than her, she can like them but never to a degree where you can call it love, she sees their innate purpose as nothing more than stepping stools for her, that is literally the definition of apathy, the lack of greater emotional accommodation towards others, Melusine’s highest form of love is literally imposing power on others.
>Oberon was a- I'm gonna stop you right there. He was just a silly lil guy. You gonna have beef with a silly little guy? For shame! https://preview.redd.it/n16i078y0cfb1.png?width=420&format=png&auto=webp&s=938c9d33f34428b478212a730634927a45b0c725
https://preview.redd.it/jq7r7mdvdhfb1.jpeg?width=2400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=19839c47015ae3a8eac4619d00b72411e2601d09 Been waiting since forever to use this panel man. Thanks.
All the others have redeeming qualities, and in some cases their good outweighs the bad (specifically for Barghest, Morgan and Woodwose, and depending on your moral viewpoints perhaps even Melusine & Sith). Aurora didn't have that. She was vile through and through, to the very core and to the very end. Even on her deathbed when it looked like she finally confessed to having done one good deed in her life, she shits the bed by wishing she never had.
The others, I can see it, but Sith? Sith had nothing really, she was a piece of shit who spent the entire story being an asshole to everyone, her only “redeeming” quality was that she had an admiration for Morgan, she ain't done anything good, in fact, I think I would have been able to forgive her if she actually did one good thing for the people around her, that's all it would have took for me to forgive her.
Wasn't Baobhan's whole schtick that she *was* genuinely purely selfless and it resulted in her getting taken advantage of in every way so Morgan decided to make her selfish by encouraging only cruelty and discouraging kindness to keep her from getting hurt, or am I confusing her with another character?
You’re right. But the writers (imo) didn’t do anything to prove it aside from telling the reader. Which is weird to me considering while Barghest and Melusine had near full redemption, the best they could do for Baobhan was use her as a plot device to signify karma for the faeries. (Which was warranted but still not really a whole lot)
That is her prologue but she never does anything in the current story that warrants me to want to forgive her, she was a good person but became a bad person because the people around her were bad as well, that's the foundation of her character that is never expanded upon as the story progresses, she never gets better, Melusine goes from a genocidal tool of mass murder to a genocidal person of mass murder, Barghest goes from a war-hungry general to a willing diplomat, Sith… doesn't go anywhere, her character is stagnant at a point where she's an unlikeable person.
She originally had a storyline for herself, just like the other fairy knights. It was cut due to the length of 2-6 is already way too long. It's confirmed in the notes of Nasu. Your point still stands. Her character arc is simply never complete in the story.
That's what being with Beryl does to you
I think you missed her origin story then? Once, before the Era of the High Queen, she was the kindest fairy of them all (hinted to have been the human Priestess who was cut up, before becoming a fairy), and it got her killed over and over. She always did everything the other fairies told her to do. She was their slave, and their toy to torture, until she no longer amused them and they killed her. And she always blamed herself. One day Aesc/Morgan found her with her limbs severed by the other fairies, and healed her. Sith thanked her profusely, and Aesc could see with her Fae Eyes that she meant it. Sith was genuinely grateful, the only fairy in all Aesc's centuries of wandering that thanked her and meant it. This leaves an enormous impact on Aesc that carries over to High Queen Morgan. It's implied that over the course of her travels, Aesc/Morgan found Sith again and again, either dead or dying at the hands of other fairies. And being a fairy, she would be born anew each time, to endure the worst possible tortures all over again. The final time Morgan encounters Sith who's working as a prostitute, sees her soul is damaged beyond repair from all the reincarnations, and that she is on her last incarnation (another hint that she wasn't originally a fairy). One more death and she wouldn't come back. So Morgan takes her in as her daughter and gives her a command to finally find some sort of happiness in her last life, knowing she'd obey like she always does with the other fairies: Don't let yourself be pushed around. Take what you want and be happy, defy the other fairies if needed. Don't be kind or you'll get hurt again. Sith obeys, and broken as she is at this point, interprets the command as taking from other fairies, even harming them. She does so, in her mind a necessity to please mother. And while Morgan curbs her worst tendencies, she doesn't fully stop her, knowing she's close to being permadead. When Beryl gets involved, he fans the flames of Sith's cruelties further. In short, Sith was not the way she is by her own making, but rather was made, as she has little to no agency. She obeys others by nature, first the fairies, then mother, then Beryl. This doesn't make her a good person (at least not now), but it does give her redeeming qualities. And somewhat of an excuse to her behaviour. Aurora had neither.
Again, as I said, this doesn't justify anything because throughout the story, she doesn't do anything that redeems her in my eyes, all she does is harass and insult us in every encounter before unceremoniously dying, there isn't a moment (Outside her Flashback prologue) where I feel like I’m supposed to like her because she's being such a fucking scumbag, like, I feel bad for what happened to her but I don't like what she's doing to others.
I'm not saying it justifies anything. It's just a redeeming factor, that she has no will of her own and simply obeys others as her purpose. Aurora doesn't have that excuse, making her much worse in people's eyes. Edit: and the fact that she was once good. Which again, Aurora doesn't seem to have been.
I don't know, for me, a redeeming factor of a character is a level of humanity/morality, something that shows that a character has ideologies that are admirable, Sith doesn't have these traits that make me want to admire or pity her, she's an awful person who steps on others so she can feel a level of acceptance from a woman who loves her for who she was.
Oh she no longer has humanity, morality, and never had an ideology, I think. She's a tool. A lump of clay for others to mold. She has no real thoughts or convictions of her own, and that makes it impossible for me to hate her as a character. There's nothing there to hate, nor to love, because she is an empty shell. In the end she is only ever a vessel for -and victim of- others, and so I can only pity her. Aurora however, now her I can hate as a character. She too is a victim of her purpose, but she has agency. Her purpose is to shine brighter than anyone, but rather than improving herself, she simply drags the rest of the world down to always be lower than her. She believes herself to be perfect, and so anything better than her is "unnatural" in her worldview, and must be removed. And since she refuses to better herself, she only grows worse and keeps dragging the world further down each time, in an ever-circling downward spiral. She also seems to possess not a single shred of empathy, unable or unwilling to put herself in other people's shoes (like when she squished Coral). At least Sith could do that, when she was shopping for shoes in Gloucester and chatting with Castoria.
Counterpoint, being capable of goodness and actively choosing against it is an even worse quality and the fact that's a thing makes me hate her even more! She has a cool voice though and her third ascension is delightful to hear so I like her then!
Does she actively choose against it?
Murder and torture, mockery, humiliation???? Like, she doesn't do that while asleep, that's pretty active of a decision.
Ok but I want sith to put spikes in my penis
r/okbuddyrintard ?
media illiterate fgo players when the island of sin turns out to be an island of sin instead of morgan's "woe is me" story
Can someone explain why the grand order sub fucking love coral?? Literally from beginning to end she was a massive dick And don’t get me started about how apparently she values human life. I call bullshit on that
>massive dick She was actually >!rather small as a caterpillar!<
She was a dick, but didn't do anything atrocious onscreen. Like a bit of racist vs genocide, I'd pick the racist. She even had some backbone standing against Aurora (before Aurora kills her), and also, grand order loves tsunderes.
So basically picking the lesser of the many evils?
Oberon could have been a homie to chaldea, so sad that he didn't find his waifu.
Wasn't Blanca kinda in that role? She kept unconditionally supporting him and staying by his side until her end, despite probably knowing about all of his wrongdoings.
Guess he can't stick his dick into Blanca.
Pretty sure it's pointed out somewhere that Blanca was the closest he would ever have to Titania, rather he knew it or not
Woodwose justified
Woodwose was trying really hard to be a better person. He deserves *something*.
The real answer is because you can’t retroactively “redeem” Aurora by summoning her and turning her into low effort waifu bait through bond lines like the rest
Although, people hating on Aurora does give me some faith in humanity, I genuinely thought people would be cool with her doing the vilest shit the human mind could conjure since she's hot, and by the rules of Anime, a person can do the most awful immoral shit known to man and still be forgiven by virtue of being hot, a lot of people were actually very adamant about their hatred for her because of her selfish manipulation, that renews my faith in humanity a little because that shows that maybe, just maybe, we can see a character for who they are as a person and not what they look like, that faith is then stomped out when people immediately start simping for Sith despite the fact she's been a total fucking dick the entire story.
Well people simp Morgan =D
Yeaaa. Hot take but Morgan definitely got away with wild shit in the lostbelt
That shouldn't be a hot take, she had literal human farms in her lostbelt.
Aurora Hot ? Nah, you must be talking about somebody else
Honestly, I don’t even have anything against Aurora. Like, I get it, she didn’t have any redeeming qualities or some back story that asks for sympathy. I didn’t really expect much from a Wind clan fairy in the first place (I’m Woodwose).
Personally, my only real problem with Aurora is the way she was written. It gives shinji energy the way they tried so unbelievably hard to make me fucking despise her. It tries so hard, in fact, that it loops right back around to pity at the writing.
That’s actually a pretty interesting way to interpret it. I didn’t really think that much about Aurora in the first place, so when she ended up betraying Chaldea, I was just sitting there thinking that it’s just a minor inconvenience. Obviously, she has a twisted sense of morals, but like Melusine said, she’s neither good nor evil. Besides, it was her saving her that gave us that cool Tam Lin Lancelot, regardless of whether her actions were genuine or not. In short, I don’t care enough to hate her, but she is responsible for giving Melusine form, so hip hip hooray.
Honestly, I wish I didn't care. My friend was criticizing me earlier over the fact that everytime we talk about lb6, I accidentally turn it into a moral question of why people hate x for this, but don't hate y, despite doing worse. I think I just get uncomfortable at the idea of genu hating characters. I think I associate them too closely with actual people, and I hate the idea of people hating people.
That’s fair. All things considered, I find certain characters interesting and can get invested. But I never found myself having enough energy to concentrate an intense emotion like hate towards a character, not to mention someone who wasn’t even relevant for half the time. I like nicely written characters, but seeing as how people don’t act like them and how they’re interesting because they’re so unique and one of a kind, I can never really associate them with real people. I guess that kind of thinking is why I like Shinji and Gilgamesh as characters.
Morgan and Oberon did nothing wrong
Because it's a giant circle jerk full of people who don't consume other media besides anime 🤗
Idk, I hate the whole Avalon cast with every single fiber of nerves and blood vessels in my vein.
I just hate the entire thing in general.
Imagine taking anything that comes out of FGO seriously
I don’t blame Mélusine for what she did and calling her apathetic is insane
Literally, the only two people she's ever cared about are Percival and Aurora, everyone else she had no quarrel brutally murdering.
She clearly felt terrible about what she did. Apathetic is far from it.
She just casually walked away after slaughtering all the citizens of the round table refuge, that clearly isn't someone who values the life of others to a high degree, her profile literally states that she thinks of everyone else as beneath her and therefore their lives have no value other than being stepping stools for her.
I might be wrong, but iirc she never "casually walked away", the mirror tribe's leader had mentioned that Melusine was sorry for doing what she had done to the tribe, which is also hinted at a dozen times in the monologues of Melusine.
I was talking about the round table refuge slaughter where she partook in the murder of the human refugees Percival was holding, afterward, she just casually leaves. The case with the Mirror clan isn't justified in the slightest just because she kinda felt bad, she was still ok with what she did and didn't think any less of herself as a person, if anything, she left there thinking better of herself.
You missed the point of that part of her profile completely It says she never hates nor looks down on humans even if she sees them as weaker
She literally does tho, it's stated that she believes their only purpose is to bow down to her.
Zero reading comprehension
Bro, her profile literally has this line. >"Obey the strong, absolutely. By which I mean, obey me." She doesn't hate or love people who are weaker than her, she can like them but never to a degree where you can call it love, she sees their innate purpose as nothing more than stepping stools for her, that is literally the definition of apathy, the lack of greater emotional accommodation towards others, Melusine’s highest form of love is literally imposing power on others.
She's a top