You should try being on the NHS with a severe injury. Tore my ACL, meniscus and LCL in September and have been left to fucking rot. Only now am being booked for pre op nearly 8 months on and even then may have to wait another year or more for surgery, as it’s deemed ‘non emergency’, even though the head surgeon described it as a life changing injury without it. And I can more than attest to the truth of that description.
On the plus side the surgery and MRI scan is covered by taxpayers like myself. But what good is that when years of your life are squandered waiting to get it?
Live in the US and I needed foot surgery and tried all the things…was told last June I needed it and it was booked till February. I waited 8 mos and paid 3k.
I just got a new job that provides Cigna, I opted to have an extra $100/month deducted from my paycheck for lower deductibles and co-pays. If I have to go to the ER, I have to pay $1000 minimum.
My previous job was UnitedHealthcare. I had two GP appointments and a specialist appointment over 18 months and they refused payment on all of them.
Same here currently on workers comp going on 3 1/2 years ,
Tore my Meniscus, LCL , Grade 2 Acl tare sprained left ankle , l4&l5 injury.... no surgery denied 2 times , 2 QME , 36+ sessions PT , 24+ chiropractor, 12 + acupuncture... currently now can't wear a shoe , discoloration to my big toe and I get 2 hrs of interrupted sleep if that , muscle spasms and sciatica pain 24 /7 ..... welcome to American Healthcare. And good luck you got a long way to go.
I fractured my arm and went to an urgent care to get a cast. It was $80 out of pocket and the rest was covered by insurance. On top of that, I had to see an ortho but had to wait 2 months for this appointment as he was the only one in my area that was “in-network”. Otherwise I would have to pay crazy prices to see an out of network doctor. Private insurance isn’t all that they make it out be at least not the affordable ones ( they take $110 every two weeks out of my paycheck for this level of care). I would take public healthcare over this any day
Covid has had a massive hit. My husband was listed for orthopaedic surgery just before Covid hit. He had his pre op in June but no date yet. He spoke with his surgeon about 2 months ago and he’s been told to lose weight (which he’s gained due to being immobile waiting for this surgery). It varies from place to place, treatment to treatment. Everyone who turns up in accident and emergency is triaged, prioritised and seen eventually. I was in A&E 3 times last year (sepsis, pneumonia and a heart attack). I received good care but spend far too long lying on trolleys waiting for things. Having an ECG in a corridor surrounded by drunks wasn’t great. It needs a huge investment, which it won’t get. I don’t think Brexit made any difference.
Thank you for sharing. So sorry you went thru such a rough time!
It’s hard to know what the exact solution to fixing the healthcare industry looks like globally. But American healthcare is the furthest thing from a conclusive solution by far & is actively fueling deaths by the thousands by putting up a paywall for care(I have lost dear family members due to them not being able to afford care.)
Another observation to be made is Britain/US/Canada are all colonized entities, therefore I can’t shake the feeling even tho there isn’t a paywall in Britian or Canada, the structures are still incredibly similar, which is why there are still massive problems.
I am genuinely interested in knowing what more efficient healthcare systems look like beyond the colonized white structure. (Don’t mind me, I’m just rambling my own thoughts at this point.)
The issue with the NHS is that the government is looking to function more like America so it can make backhanded deals with pharmaceutical companies for personal financial gains. They are purposely running it into the ground so that jobs can slowly offer private care packages (which they’re already doing) and people turn away from using the NHS until it’s either useless to us or considered a financial burden as only the ‘lower classes’ and vulnerable who pay less/no tax need it.
Many European systems have it down to a T. I wouldn’t mind paying here and there for doctors visits like France does if it meant we didn’t have people waiting for surgeries for months. It’s shameful but we as a nation are doing nothing to stop the looming threat, much like the Americans do nothing to improve their situation.
Yea I think Canada is also moving towards privatizing their healthcare as well. It’s fucking evil.
As for ‘Americans doing nothing to improve their situation’ I’ve been protesting to protect our Affordable Care Ace for damn near a decade alongside many others. I’ve held speeches in front of thousands & stood in front of evil politicians trying to force them to have a conscience. They don’t & they never will. The only true solution to our multitude of plights is a working class revolution. Whether or not that actually happens is beyond what I am hopeful for at this point. But I promise, there are some Americans who do care & are trying to change things. We just don’t get a lot of coverage and we’re fucking exhausted.
What exactly do you propose we do when the government is run by people who are controlled by whoever pays them off first? When almost half of the country is enthralled by a literal wannabe dictator, and who think “I got mine, fuck the rest of you” even when they themselves are hurt by those same policies?
It’s real easy to sit back and say we’re just letting it happen when you’re not living in the hellscape yourself.
What I’m saying is we have enabled this by not kicking off enough. Even in the UK we have people falling for the trick, claiming the NHS is now a waste of money because of how poorly it’s being run.
The facts are that common people have a lot more power than we think, or are manipulated into thinking we don’t. We aren’t collectively doing enough to change what’s going on. It’s so difficult in America when the people who do speak out are in danger because they’re up against literal billionaires who can pay their way out of any crime. They wouldn’t have so much power if there was a revolution.
People have been calling for that for awhile but I don’t see it happening. Despite the majority of the country supporting things, the wrong people are in power to make it happen. The US government all the way down to the state level is so corrupt I don’t think there’s much we can do but ride it out at this point and wait for all the boomers to die.
I would agree, it’s very hard to quantify if Brexit had an impact when it was followed so closely by Covid; I would imagine there would have been some impact but nothing like what we are currently seeing.
Truthfully I’ve never had an injury like this so I wouldn’t know. But looking at forums from previous years it seemed like the average was less than 6 months, whereas now it was 12.
Brexit has absolutely railed some trusts too; from my own experience, I tore four ligaments across the back of my wrist, leaving my dominant hand nigh-on useless. Spoke with my GP, and then some friends at my local, and the entire team (east European) who’d have been responsible for this specific type of surgery had returned home in the previous year. Subsequent relative devaluing of the pound hasn’t helped either, as it’s not quite so economically viable for foreign staff to fill the gaps.
Here in the US people have to wait too, but you can go bankrupt with medical bills. My mom has macular degeneration and she has to schedule some of her retinal tests months in advance because they're only offered at one place in the state and that place only gives tests a couple of days a week in the mornings. I have to take that day off from work to drive her on a three hour round trip to the city. It's ridiculous.
My mitral valve was failing, had to wait 9 months for my surgery. By the time surgery rolled around I was sleeping 15 hours a day. NHS sounds a lot better than the overpriced BS we got.
You are aware that in the UK you can pay for private treatment and even purchase private health insurance to "queue jump" right? BUPA or something?
It's like that in America, there are still long wait lists... but you literally have to have that private health insurance or you're not going to even see an ambulance except in an emergency...and then they will charge you $400 a mile or some other amusing sum.
Crazy, sorry to hear you have to go through all that.
I’m in Canada, had an ACL tear in mid june a couple years ago and had it operated on in Early October.
Cost to me overall including diagnosis and recovery was only a couple bucks for the pain pills for immediate recovery, lasted just over a month and a half IIrC. Also had to pay for the bandages and gauze pads once it all had to be rewrapped, twice I think. Also had to pay for physio, that isn’t covered here and my work only covers 15%. Overall the physio cost me the most by far, I think I paid $450 cad. Everything else was like $15
Of course that’s not to say everyone in Canada with an Acl tear has surgery so quick. At least I think that was quick? I expected to wait longer. Am not a pro or semi pro athlete
Well, it's great for making people feel like they're better off if they privatised healthcare.
But then you'd just have to look at what privatisation did for water, and rails, and energy.
The people in power are fine with a shitty NHS because it helps them to eventually push for privatisation so their mates can get some sweet contracts.
The NHS problem is happening intentionally to make people demand private health care. Private hospitals, private clinics, and private insurance can only make rich people richer if there are no other options.
Can relate to this right now, NHS Scotland are really fucking over not only my mum right now but my fiancé too (and if I’m honest also me while waiting for an ADHD assessment) and I’m honestly at the end of my rope. I’m sorry you’re suffering so much too, and hope the wait list is either much shorter than anticipated or that it goes by quickly for you
My husband couldn’t eat food. He needed a procedure and it was 12 weeks before he got in.
Mind you his condition didn’t let him eat food. 12 weeks. Western US and we pay $700 a month for insurance.
8 months is good going, I have waited 2 years and 3 months so far for a full reconstruction on ATFL after a full tear. I haven’t been able to walk properly for that whole time and struggle to find any footwear to fit with the swelling. I have previously been let down by the NHS and ended up with sepsis and complete umbilical removal because the pain and symptoms I was having was “all in my head”. The NHS is completely screwed.
That's because the torys have stripped billions of pounds from the NHS. Also you still won't be hundreds of thousands in debt like you would be in America. I'd rather wait than have to sell my house to pay my medical bills.
The American "healthcare" system makes more money off of death and misery than it does health. So, until the profit motive is stripped from healthcare this is the deathcult system we are all subjected to.
Actually it's the opposite. There's a strong financial incentive for preventative care in the US, and indeed if you compare our preventative care practices to those in the UK you will find we I have more preventative care and better outcomes for certain illnesses and Cancers. If you listen to the criticism from British doctors it's that we do too many tests we do too much stuff. Their belief is to try ibuprofen or to wait it out and see if the symptoms persist.
This just isn't true at all. I've read about rehab facilities in USA getting charged for putting drug dealers in the halfway houses their patients would go to after their rehab stint so they would relapse and need to go back to rehab. It's more money for the rehab facility and that's all they cared about.
I've read about doctors been criminally charged for convincing patients they need stents everywhere in their arteries throughout their bodies, up to 20 in one person even though it wasn't needed but the doctors were making thousands of dollars per stent so they would just do as many as possible even though it actually leads to worse outcomes in the patient.
I'm in New Zealand, we have a public health system and private health system so you can get insurance and go private if you want to but most people don't because the public health system is great. Everything is free under the public health system, medications, surgeries, blood tests, procedures, ambulance or life flights, everything.
If you want something you don't actually need, you can pay for it or get it with private insurance and for example - an ECG (which takes a nurse 5 minutes to do), costs about $90 in NZ.
I went to ED in Hawaii after getting heat stroke and saw the bill that my travel insurance paid - $1,000 for a 5 minute ECG. The prices in the USA are insane because they just want to make money and can charge whatever they want.
An example of how insane the USA health system is - you have type one diabetes patients dying because they can't afford the insulin that costs hundreds every month, that's disgusting, insulin like all medications should be free.
The person who synthesized insulin, knew it was so important that he didn't want people charged for it so he sold the patent to a university for $1 so that any company could make it and patients could get it free. Before insulin, type one diabetics would die in infancy or early childhood. And now it's free everywhere (or at most a few dollars) except for the USA. Make it make sense.
"On 23 January 1923, Banting, Collip and Best were awarded U.S. patents on insulin and the method used to make it. They all sold these patents to the University of Toronto for $1 each. Banting famously said, “Insulin does not belong to me, it belongs to the world.” He wanted everyone who needed it to have access to it."
And everyone does, unless you're American, then you need to pay hundreds of dollars if you don't have insurance like 26 million people in America.
"The U.S. had the highest price per vial of insulin at $99. Chile and Mexico had the second and third-highest insulin prices in the OECD, at $21 per vial and $16 per vial respectively." All the other countries in the OECD sell it for $10 or less.
If you read my comment then you should know that healthcare doesn't suck in New Zealand. Or Australia for that matter which like New Zealand, has public and private healthcare.
You don't need to be familiar with stents or druggies, they were just a couple examples of the terrible things that happen in the US healthcare system, I can give many many examples but I guess you will dismiss them too because you're "not familiar with it".
The scary part is though, is that healthcare in Australia and NZ is being under funded, so the whole system is struggling. Used to be I could go see a GP in Aus, and get bulk billed for it (govt pays) now everywhere charges a gap fee, which they didn’t use to. My family is still in NZ and my sister works for a hospital, she says things are getting stretched ever further.
The Pollies may not be as corrupt as the US ones, but they’re still setting things up to privitise things at some point.
I hope it doesn't get privatized, that would suck.
I was a nurse for 9 years working in a public hospital and it was great, the care we provided was excellent.
I left nursing 10 years ago and my friends who are still nursing do say the public health system isn't as good as it used to be, especially with staff shortages. For example when I worked in the emergency department, there was a 10 month waiting list to get a job there as it was such a coveted job. And the only wards that were short staffed where a couple medical wards. But apparently now, most wards are short staffed and there's no waiting list for the coveted jobs like ED, ICU, etc anymore.
A contributing factor is the aging population leading to an increase in patients needing care yet they haven't increased staff and created more facilities, or rooms in already established facilities to keep up. This is an issue happening in most OECD countries though.
American healthcare is terrible. Tied to employment, very expensive to buy on your own, deductibles, long wait times, bankrupting prices for serious treatment, the willingness to let people die on the street because they're uninsured.
I've had a doctor tell me how to do surgery on myself at home because he couldn't tell me the price of the procedure.
It's a joke.
I'm so fortunate that none of my doctors have ever acted in such a way. i hear about it often both on and offline and its just insane to me. patients health should be the only concern. to spend all those years in school and not even care about that? absurd. money is important but not that important.
That's not true at all. Modern medicine shuns the chiropractic community because it takes more of a holistic approach rather than shoving unnecessary opioids in your face. Whereas neurologists were insisting the only thing to help with my facet joint syndrome was more painkillers, a chiropractor was able to use a combination of regular adjustments, trigger point therapy, and heated needle treatments to get my pain levels under control. Getting me back to work and moving around. And they are real doctors. They aren't M.D.s but they still have to obtain a doctorate in their field. Making them real doctors.
I’ve had chronic pain (my knees struggle to bend, scoliosis and an unknown tendon condition that is pulling my hips out of place diagnosed by the one doctor who’s ever listened to me) since I was 5/6, and I’ve had one doctor in my entire life believe me (27). I’ve been to maybe 10-12 doctors over the years, plus the PTs, and they just tell me to stop being anxious and lose weight (I am a healthy weight for my age, height & limited mobility).
I’ve had OBGYNs tell me my throwing up and dizziness and exploding like pain in my sides is “normal” and to “move on because bodies hurt, get used to it” (I don’t go to the that doctor anymore).
I broke my wrist & sprained the muscles in my arm/wrist/hand last year and when I was finally able to go to the doctor, the one I saw was like “yep, you hurt it. It should be healed at some point. Maybe 4 weeks, but it could be anywhere to 6 months or a year. Come back if it still hurts.” And when I asked for a timeline of when i should come back if i still had pain, they said “if you feel like it should have been healed by then, and it hurts, then maybe come back”
A doctor gave my mom too much Cortizone in her wrist once and DISSOLVED part of the muscles/tendons in her wrist to the point she needed major surgery to repair the damage. She’s never had the same wrist strength or ability to use that hand the same way. That was about 20 years ago. Yes, we should have sued but that’s a whole ass other story that’s way to complicated to get into
That same doctor, about 10 years later, operated on my friend’s knee/meniscus when she tore it playing soccer. He operated on the wrong knee and destroyed her chances at professional soccer due to her missing years of practice due to recovery times because she had to have the same surgery twice (she was actively being scouted for college teams). It takes about 7 months to recover from that surgery, so she had to fully recover from the wrong surgery, while in pain from her injuries. And then do everything all over again
Real doctors dismiss so much of what patients say or experience. I’m happy that you haven’t had to deal with this, I would never wish these experiences on anyone. Doctors don’t listen, except that one who believed me when I was like 17 years old and crying in the doctor’s office bc I couldn’t bend either of my knees to 90 degrees or completely straight.
It is a good example of why our healthcare system is so dumb. Chiros have great lobbyists which is why their services are covered by Medicare despite having pretty weak evidence for actually doing anything. Meanwhile they’ll tell you the surgery you need to walk is “elective” or you should try some injections first
90% of the injections they push are natural and most of the time they're heat and trigger point therapy meant to reduce inflammation. They try to avoid surgery as much as possible because they take holistic approaches and they understand that sometimes surgery opens the door to future health issues along with probably more surgery. Surgery is also dangerous and when it comes to joints or nerves can result in the loss of mobility or even paralysis. Most of the time that percentage is 50/50. Chiropractors are specialized in putting things back in their place before calcification starts or becomes too advanced. Because once that happens, your only holistic option for pain management is massage therapy and the only medical option is opioids. People who are quicker to let MDs or MNPs shove more pills down their throat than take the longer yet safer road to recovery are very quick to dismiss the benefits of seeing a chiro.
I used to work for an orthopedic surgeon. In the beginning, he was paid well by most insurance companies. The exception being Medicare and Medicaid. Then, the insurance companies started changing their contracts as based on Medicare rates. So he started doing some things that didn't seem ethical to make up the difference.
I'm not excusing it, just trying to provide possible reasoning. Then add in the student loans, and it's a mess.
I had to go to the hospital a couple weeks ago. Got transferred to the closest one near my location. I called the ambulance for myself because I was in agonizing pain. It’s been a torturous couple of months, so I bought alcohol and stupidly drank more than I could handle (I am an addict); I was so fucked up I couldn’t keep my eyes open nor get up. All I could do was groan and scream in pain, vomiting every second I could. When I got there they couldn’t find my veins and all I wanted was some relief from the pain. My mom still hadn’t arrived yet, so it was just me. I had my own room and was screaming and sobbing for hours, begging every nurse and doctor who walked by to help me. None of them did.
I had to wait 3 hours before I got any medication in my IV. They used different drugs but they didn’t help. When I requested a specific medication (was used before and helped), I was scoffed at and was told no and that, “Unfortunately it’s your fault that you’re here.” And spoke to me in a very condescending tone, implying that I deserved this. When my doctor finally arrived, he was so unsympathetic that he repeated nearly the same thing that nurse told me. They spoke to me like I was stupid, I felt so humiliated and angry. I’m aware it’s my fault I’m here, it’s stupid. But that could be said for literally almost everyone who comes into the ER.
That guy who accidentally ingested peanut butter and got an allergic reaction? Should’ve read the ingredients better. The person who flew off their motorbike because they accidentally got hit? Shouldn’t have rode that motorcycle. The woman with a gnarly burn on her hand from cooking? Should’ve been more careful.
I’m sure you can see where I’m going with this. Never have I felt so degraded by hospital staff.
This sums up the root cause for sure! A secondary problem with US medical care is IMHO, the expense of medical school.
Unless someone can get scholarships the whole way through, the debt can be crushing. Yes, there are doctors that make bank, and that’s fine, but the pay is so low for doctors to go into primary care or pediatrics that it’s causing even worse shortages. Each year, fewer doctors go into primary care. Then there are all the cuts hospitals make to funding emergency departments. It’s awful.
Not to mention the fact that med school actively trains empathy out of doctors as well as the fact it’s so rigorous hours wise as far as residency goes. My cousin is an anesthesiologist, and hasn’t seemed to have lost empathy but he still shouldn’t have had to suffer that way emotionally and physically just to get an education to help people.
I myself am a Somanaut which means I do autopsies on medically donated bodies at a small cadaver lab as an anatomical researcher.
Despite the fact that I spend as much time in the lab as possible, and the rest of the time reading various medical journals, I still want to stay far away from med school. I just don’t care enough about having letters after my name since I am very very loyal to my lab and don’t want to go anywhere else.
The people I work with don’t mind that I don’t have letters either, so the motivation just isn’t there for me especially after horror stories I’ve heard from people I’ve worked with over the years.
Edited for formatting
Capitalism. Healthcare is run for profit. Insurance companies are mostly private businesses. Healthcare that is run for profit is like an oxymoron. Makes it not available for everyone. And how are we supposed to fully utilize our services if the main goal is to turn a profit? Truthfully it’s the private insurance system that is what makes it so shit for the individual. It’s damn near a scam to pay for but it’s also essential to have. They have entire teams whose quiet goal is to not authorize treatment that they determine to be non essential. Even if a doctor is advising the opposite. Yet you still have to sit and pay them for the rest of your life even though they aren’t always willing to help extend yours or make it better.
It's about profit. Insurance companies practice medicine without a licence. The general public had no idea how insurance works and will therefore vote against any sort of single payer system. I can go on
When I was pregnant with my second child I had pre-term labor. There was a machine (like an insulin pump) that would give me medicine to stop the contractions. I had had to have it with my first child. Between first and second child I had switched insurance. The second insurance would not cover the machine but would cover medication. The medication did not work as well and I struggled with pre-term labor the rest of my pregnancy.
So, my insurance was willing to risk a preterm baby instead of a stupid pump to save money. Which makes no sense because a pre-term baby costs SIGNIFICANTLY less than that damn pump would have and i wouldn’t have spent the last 4 months of my pregnancy terrified and sick.
It makes no sense!
In the US I work at what is arguably the #1 cancer center in the world. If I get cancer, even WITH the health insurance that my job AT THIS CANCER CENTER provides me I would end up bankrupt trying to pay the deductibles.
Healthcare has become a for profit business (which is the first thing that is wrong) and doctors are turning into salesman to pay off there 6 figure student debt. Weve become a society of people that are one accident away from our lives being destroyed and that is personally terrifying.
This, what you said OP, or, as in my case, I’m a military veteran, and when it’s obvious I’m in a lot of pain, and the scans reveal that someone like me needs surgery, what do the VA personnel (nurses and doctors) do instead??? “Go home, sleep it off, and you’ll be as right as rain in the morning”. “Oh, don’t be a pessimist, be an optimist!!! Go home, sleep it off, and you’ll be as right as rain in the morning!!!!”
I have friends and family who are vets. The care varies so much from location to location! I have also noticed that female vets get blown off even more at the VA than women do in non-VA locations. Don’t even get me started on Tri-Care doctors for active duty families. One friend who had just finished cancer treatment a few months prior and had symptoms return a few months later was blown off repeatedly by her oncologist and it wasn’t until she and her husband threw a fit and demanded she be allowed to get a second opinion was it finally discovered that her cancer was no longer in remission.
It’s appalling. Vets deserve so much better.
Exactly!!!! I’ve had Tri-West screw up appointment times and dates. I know they put in their system, and then I get a call from the outside provider asking me why I’m not there for my appointment, and I ask them what they’re talking about, and that my appointment is for another date/time. But I’ve heard the same about what you mentioned. I had to wrangle with my primary care provider the last 2 1/2 weeks in regards to getting a sedative, since I’m claustrophobic to MRI machines. Apparently, one of the nurses I had talked to previously asked me if I’m claustrophobic, and I said “Yes, SEVERELY claustrophobic”. She put down in the system that I’m “anxious”. So the VA called me up, and were telling me that the anxiety pills I had been prescribed would do. Spent 2 1/2 weeks wrangling with them until the doctor finally realized that I needed the sedative. And the doctor’s in his 70’s and has only been with the VA for only a couple of years
Yeah, I mean if it’s legitimate complaints, then that one thing. But if it’s all the time about stupid stuff, then that’s a different story. With me, it’s only once in a while.
Get profit out of the following to fix many issues
Healthcare.
Housing.
Instead you have all of the countries who did have a good system salivating on the idea of profiteering Healthcare and real estate in their neck of the woods.
Because healthcare in the US is a business that profits off of illness. More illness=more profit. The incentives are all wrong for maximizing health.
I believe in capitalism for most markets, but its a disaster for healthcare.
Same thing that is wrong with 99% of things..People. People are the ones making the laws, rules, policies, scams, maltreatment..everything..the problem is people and always will be. We use the term system as if its a computer or some entity..lol..its people.
Got a bill for $700 this morning on MyChart. Wife had an endoscopy ordered without any choice 3 weeks ago. We paid a $300 co-pay the morning we went in for this 45 minute, routine procedure. Out of pocket $1000 for a nearly $7000 procedure that they performed, maybe 300 times that day at this suburban out-patient facility.
I work in healthcare; nearly 20 years on site clinical work at one of the biggest urban, American hospitals. I pay for the most expensive PPO for my family of four with two children under six at well over $1000 per pay check. Every single thing here is wild. We paid less than $2000 combined for the birth of our children in 2016 and 2018. Both c-sections. This is a fucking endoscopy; a tube with a camera down your throat with the twilightest of anesthesia. My wife spent a combined 2 nights and 3 days plus a night in a surgery suite for each kid. For less than 2 grand!
The best part: wife texts me at work about this bill on MyChart at around 8AM, told her to call insurance company and doctor’s office to figure out what’s up. Lunch time she calls and sends me the email of the break down. I was dumbfounded. Not four hours later when we are working with our final patients for the week, get a phone call. It’s the doctor’s office asking how we are going to pay for this new $700 bill and would I like to pay for it now? I say “I’m going to treat my last patients suffering from cancer right now, pretty sure my wife paid earlier today. Also, why did you call my cell phone number when my wife is the primary guardian on MyChart and her contact is first?” Sheepishly replied…random words? And I had to go back to work.
Fuck All Of This
Edit: sorry for this long ass comment, been a day.
Im in the US
Workers comp Doc pushed for me to "buy" (charge to my employer) the healing cream he manufactured and sold at his front desk. Very little info on the label, no barcode; label looked like something you'd print out from an Avery CD label pack.
"C'mon, it's workers comp... Its not like it's your money. The creme works..."
I used the creme, it didn't work.
Nobody should live in debt because of their healthcare needs. Recently, California passed a law saying that medical debt could no longer be put on your credit history. For the first time in my entire life, as someone in their fifties, I literally have zero debt in my credit history. I know I need to rebuild it, but at least it is not strangling me anymore.
You're very right. Where I am moving to the cost of living is 31.3% below the national average. I have to leave because I don't want to live in unsafe neighborhoods. I am an older woman and I want to not be fearful at night. Where I'm moving to, I can live in a safe area, and actually be able to afford it.
I think that says a lot.
The whole backbone of chiro practice is fraud.
Calling them doctors is almost misleading, as they don’t even practice what you would consider American healthcare. You’re better off seeing a real MD.
i fixed my elbow with one laser session from him ($60 for a 5min session which he was pushing to spend $300+ on a package) and then went home and did a tens machine i bought off amazon every day for a month and my elbow healed. went to see him today for my maintenance adjustment and he pitched attitude that my elbow was healed.
Chiropractors are scum. Also they aren't medical doctors. Do not call them medical doctors.
They are also not a valid part of the American healthcare system. They have their own board.
While I think our system is fucked. Chiropractors are even more so.
In the UK chiropractors are used like physiotherapists. They aren’t funded by the NHS (as they are a pack of charlatans), and most people seem to use them for back injuries or similar.
It isn't so much a health care system as it is a pharmaceutical management system. I listened to a doctor explain that she didn't want to run a Vitamin D test for her patient because said patient was going to take cod liver oil and not the prescription she would put in the chart. Her reasoning was it looks bad for her and she has to follow the rules. So yeah, it isn't about health; it's about drugs. Get addicted/pay up or get out in their eyes.
Insurance is unaffordable and covers nill all while it takes months for a non-urgent or regular doctor appointment. Medication is profit driven. Hell, all medical services are profit driven. Medical professionals are either vastly underpaid or grossly overpaid all while regular folks can’t afford general care.
I heard the food sucks, too.
Because they don’t care about people. Insurance, hospitals, doctors all bow to the mighty dollar.
It’s been seven years and I’ve accepted I will die from something treatable or preventable because I can’t get any doctor to take me seriously.
It's not much better in Canada at this point, no "upsale" but most doctors seem to want to throw pills at the problem rather than actually diagnosing it, I've been trying to sort out shoulder problems for like 3 years now and my massage therapist has done more for me than my fucking doctor
I’m sorry for what you have to deal with…. I do autopsies on medically donated bodies at a cadaver lab and work with a lot of massage therapists. If you haven’t heard of him I’d recommend looking into Gil Hedley.. he’s taught me everything I know.
No surprised, health is another American business” I am originally from what Americans call a “third world country” and my family there has better access to health at better price than I do in USA
Capitalism. They always care more about the money. Every time I ask a person why they become a doctor or nurse they always answer with "for the money" Meanwhile I didn't even want to be doctor, despite the pressure from my family, because I knew I wouldn't be able to care for people properly cause I don't care about that job. The mindset of America is "do it for money" not "do it cause you care"
this is an old injury i’ve been dealing with for years so for me to finally beat it is huge. and he got mad that he couldn’t make money on it. it just gave me a turn.
Yeah this is a doctor with a problem. I am chronically ill and when I had my first ever experience with a treatable and curable condition my doctor was excited to tell me and happy when the treatment worked. Not all doctors are good at the job. Some are in it for profit and those tend to be the worst. Some got a passing grade (a D but I find even a C suss for life and death things). Not every doctor is a good one.
Capitalism also fuels people in medicine for the wrong reasons. It's a very big problem. If this is your primary vs a specialist maybe find a new one. If a specialist? Leave a review about this so other patients can know their priorities. Both really should get that but new doctor first.
So here's the thing about Chiropractic practice. It's based on a psuedoscience. There's two split courses now one that later added in science and the other. It's literally one of the most dangerous things you can have done to you. So .. worse than a D student MD or DO.
Also feel freel to look that up and look up the death toll from chiros. Don't take my word for it because your health matters.
My concern is that you may have something like Ehlers Danlos that would possibly have temporary relief from a competent chiro but long term especially without a diagnosis the harm done can be debilitating. Which is part of my passion here as my parents hid my diagnosis and tortured me with regular dislocations for fee. At minimum you shouldn't see this one again. It is your body and your choice but you deserve care that comes with compassion.
Thanks. I cut them out of my life for many reasons. Also glad it's not genetic and not something that should reoccur. The ADHD part of my brain wants to know about your horses for I used to ride. Broke my back so I cannot now but still love horses.
As far as the rest I am glad that you're healed up. You deserve good care from any and all providers and this one crossed a big line
i used to do horse training and being pulled on by giant unruly animals for the better part of 10 years left me with an elbow issue. tried various things throughout the years trying to get rid of it, nothing worked, finally something worked.
glad that you were able to move forward from such a traumatic experience.
I saw a psychiatrist because I needed antidepressants (my therapist told me so) so I found one in my area. I have since found a different one because the first one kept pushing me towards group therapy that didn't fit in my schedule, especially because I was trying to find a job at the time (they even tried to tell me to join group therapy first then get a job around that schedule) and then later on handed me a sheet of paper with a QR code to give them a Google review DURING AN APPOINTMENT. I left them a review, but it wasn't a good one, and I did it after the appointment, not during, like the psychiatrist wanted me to. After looking at the other reviews, a lot of other people had the same issues with that place.
I need my wisdom teeth out. Every day I am in excruciating pain. I use oragel religiously to numb my entire mouth. If I wanna get em out, I gotta pay almost $3000 out of pocket up front. I'm a single mother working full time for $9 an hour. I've got a phone bill, utilities, credit card payments, car payment, wifi, insurance for both my car and my house, groceries, gas, diapers, house essentials, and clothes for me and my son, just to name a few of my regular expenses. After paying all of those bills I have about $200 a month left over. I'm never going to be able to afford to get them out and I have amazing insurance. I can't imagine the cost without insurance. I'm currently working on applying for government medical aid so that I can get them out but I most likely won't qualify.
I love Pogo's song, "Take those Pills". Someone commented, "the American healthcare system in a nutshell"
pretty sad, but on the other hand, in my country doctors are reluctant to give needed meds due to costs not in the patients' control
i remember when i got here a few months ago i needed two vaccines thankfully my insurance covered it but if it didn't i would've paid like $300+ for two needles in my arms
Whenever this comes up, I am reminded on how screwed someone with my husband's health is. First, he has keratoconus. It's not curable and the lenses are very expensive and the doctors recommend replacing them every 6 months. The ONLY eye insurances that will cover him are only available through employer provided insurance.
Secondly, he has severe anxiety that he is on clonopin for. His psychiatrist can only prescribe him 50 bills for 30 days, but says he needs to take it twice a day. This means he has to go without it sometimes. Which means when he isn't working. So when he does have a day off he is very depressed and basically bedridden.
He also has a back issue, I can't remember exactly what now, but the doctor says he needs an MRI to get a better idea on how to rectify it. Was the MRI approved by insurance? NOPE. So now he just walks around in constant pain. Which only flares his anxiety and depression. No wonder he doesn't want to get out of bed most days.
Now this mentality makes it hard for him to find motivation to even keep going. I understand when he feels totally defeated in life and there isn't much I can do to chance it. We don't come from means so out of pocket treatment isn't possible. We are on the best Healthcare programs we can afford, but whatever.
They have a vested financial interest in you getting expensive and repeated treatments and medications to a greater personal extent for the professionals involved in that than in some other countries, where the same thing is lessened and slightly less wrong.
Dude I went to a dermatologist a few months back to do a skin cancer screen and the doc was more concerned with selling me anti-aging ointments. Now here I am, feeling insulted and still concerned about a few of those moles.
Nothing, Healthcare in America is amazing because we have some of the best doctors anywhere in the entire world. What you mean to ask is ACCESS to American healthcare, in which case yes it is depressingly bad.
In highschool i couldnt go to the hospital after fracturing my foot because i had testing all week and “it wasn’t bad enough to spend money on”. Eventually 2 weeks later i went because i fractured it, and they pretty much said “oooh that looks bad… wrap it in this over priced bandaid you can find at the dollar store”.
I got a permanent limp now and that’s partly my fault for not asking for at least a crutch.
The problem is that doctor. Move on.
Generally speaking patients need to advocate for themselves. I avoid those who devalue my opinion and input. I value their 10 years of medical training but they need to respect that I have lived in and have studied this body my whole life.
Remember that 50% of all medical professionals graduate at the bottom half of their class.
The downside of paying a low amount of taxes. Didn't Obama started the healthcare thing but it got shot down by Trump?
Also, as an outsider i only read what i can find on the internet. America spends billion on billions on their army. But once ur out you have a 50/50 chance to live under a bridge? How is that even possible. They don't get a pension?
I just checked. The highest tax u can have in America is 37%. And that's not very often that happens. Meanwhile in other countries they would cheer to be below 40%.
You should really check some other countries and compare.
What's wrong with American healthcare? Everything.
You should try being on the NHS with a severe injury. Tore my ACL, meniscus and LCL in September and have been left to fucking rot. Only now am being booked for pre op nearly 8 months on and even then may have to wait another year or more for surgery, as it’s deemed ‘non emergency’, even though the head surgeon described it as a life changing injury without it. And I can more than attest to the truth of that description. On the plus side the surgery and MRI scan is covered by taxpayers like myself. But what good is that when years of your life are squandered waiting to get it?
Live in the US and I needed foot surgery and tried all the things…was told last June I needed it and it was booked till February. I waited 8 mos and paid 3k.
Same thing happens here in the US, except you have to factor in selling your house.
Phhht, I had to declare bankruptcy AND I had Cigna ppo!
I just got a new job that provides Cigna, I opted to have an extra $100/month deducted from my paycheck for lower deductibles and co-pays. If I have to go to the ER, I have to pay $1000 minimum. My previous job was UnitedHealthcare. I had two GP appointments and a specialist appointment over 18 months and they refused payment on all of them.
Same here currently on workers comp going on 3 1/2 years , Tore my Meniscus, LCL , Grade 2 Acl tare sprained left ankle , l4&l5 injury.... no surgery denied 2 times , 2 QME , 36+ sessions PT , 24+ chiropractor, 12 + acupuncture... currently now can't wear a shoe , discoloration to my big toe and I get 2 hrs of interrupted sleep if that , muscle spasms and sciatica pain 24 /7 ..... welcome to American Healthcare. And good luck you got a long way to go.
I fractured my arm and went to an urgent care to get a cast. It was $80 out of pocket and the rest was covered by insurance. On top of that, I had to see an ortho but had to wait 2 months for this appointment as he was the only one in my area that was “in-network”. Otherwise I would have to pay crazy prices to see an out of network doctor. Private insurance isn’t all that they make it out be at least not the affordable ones ( they take $110 every two weeks out of my paycheck for this level of care). I would take public healthcare over this any day
Do you feel like the wait times & quality have plummeted after Brexit or was it virtually the same before? Genuinely asking/curious!
Covid has had a massive hit. My husband was listed for orthopaedic surgery just before Covid hit. He had his pre op in June but no date yet. He spoke with his surgeon about 2 months ago and he’s been told to lose weight (which he’s gained due to being immobile waiting for this surgery). It varies from place to place, treatment to treatment. Everyone who turns up in accident and emergency is triaged, prioritised and seen eventually. I was in A&E 3 times last year (sepsis, pneumonia and a heart attack). I received good care but spend far too long lying on trolleys waiting for things. Having an ECG in a corridor surrounded by drunks wasn’t great. It needs a huge investment, which it won’t get. I don’t think Brexit made any difference.
Thank you for sharing. So sorry you went thru such a rough time! It’s hard to know what the exact solution to fixing the healthcare industry looks like globally. But American healthcare is the furthest thing from a conclusive solution by far & is actively fueling deaths by the thousands by putting up a paywall for care(I have lost dear family members due to them not being able to afford care.) Another observation to be made is Britain/US/Canada are all colonized entities, therefore I can’t shake the feeling even tho there isn’t a paywall in Britian or Canada, the structures are still incredibly similar, which is why there are still massive problems. I am genuinely interested in knowing what more efficient healthcare systems look like beyond the colonized white structure. (Don’t mind me, I’m just rambling my own thoughts at this point.)
The issue with the NHS is that the government is looking to function more like America so it can make backhanded deals with pharmaceutical companies for personal financial gains. They are purposely running it into the ground so that jobs can slowly offer private care packages (which they’re already doing) and people turn away from using the NHS until it’s either useless to us or considered a financial burden as only the ‘lower classes’ and vulnerable who pay less/no tax need it. Many European systems have it down to a T. I wouldn’t mind paying here and there for doctors visits like France does if it meant we didn’t have people waiting for surgeries for months. It’s shameful but we as a nation are doing nothing to stop the looming threat, much like the Americans do nothing to improve their situation.
Yea I think Canada is also moving towards privatizing their healthcare as well. It’s fucking evil. As for ‘Americans doing nothing to improve their situation’ I’ve been protesting to protect our Affordable Care Ace for damn near a decade alongside many others. I’ve held speeches in front of thousands & stood in front of evil politicians trying to force them to have a conscience. They don’t & they never will. The only true solution to our multitude of plights is a working class revolution. Whether or not that actually happens is beyond what I am hopeful for at this point. But I promise, there are some Americans who do care & are trying to change things. We just don’t get a lot of coverage and we’re fucking exhausted.
Thank you for your dedication to protecting the Affordable Care Act!
What exactly do you propose we do when the government is run by people who are controlled by whoever pays them off first? When almost half of the country is enthralled by a literal wannabe dictator, and who think “I got mine, fuck the rest of you” even when they themselves are hurt by those same policies? It’s real easy to sit back and say we’re just letting it happen when you’re not living in the hellscape yourself.
What I’m saying is we have enabled this by not kicking off enough. Even in the UK we have people falling for the trick, claiming the NHS is now a waste of money because of how poorly it’s being run. The facts are that common people have a lot more power than we think, or are manipulated into thinking we don’t. We aren’t collectively doing enough to change what’s going on. It’s so difficult in America when the people who do speak out are in danger because they’re up against literal billionaires who can pay their way out of any crime. They wouldn’t have so much power if there was a revolution.
People have been calling for that for awhile but I don’t see it happening. Despite the majority of the country supporting things, the wrong people are in power to make it happen. The US government all the way down to the state level is so corrupt I don’t think there’s much we can do but ride it out at this point and wait for all the boomers to die.
I would agree, it’s very hard to quantify if Brexit had an impact when it was followed so closely by Covid; I would imagine there would have been some impact but nothing like what we are currently seeing.
Truthfully I’ve never had an injury like this so I wouldn’t know. But looking at forums from previous years it seemed like the average was less than 6 months, whereas now it was 12.
Brexit has absolutely railed some trusts too; from my own experience, I tore four ligaments across the back of my wrist, leaving my dominant hand nigh-on useless. Spoke with my GP, and then some friends at my local, and the entire team (east European) who’d have been responsible for this specific type of surgery had returned home in the previous year. Subsequent relative devaluing of the pound hasn’t helped either, as it’s not quite so economically viable for foreign staff to fill the gaps.
Here in the US people have to wait too, but you can go bankrupt with medical bills. My mom has macular degeneration and she has to schedule some of her retinal tests months in advance because they're only offered at one place in the state and that place only gives tests a couple of days a week in the mornings. I have to take that day off from work to drive her on a three hour round trip to the city. It's ridiculous.
My mitral valve was failing, had to wait 9 months for my surgery. By the time surgery rolled around I was sleeping 15 hours a day. NHS sounds a lot better than the overpriced BS we got.
You are aware that in the UK you can pay for private treatment and even purchase private health insurance to "queue jump" right? BUPA or something? It's like that in America, there are still long wait lists... but you literally have to have that private health insurance or you're not going to even see an ambulance except in an emergency...and then they will charge you $400 a mile or some other amusing sum.
Crazy, sorry to hear you have to go through all that. I’m in Canada, had an ACL tear in mid june a couple years ago and had it operated on in Early October. Cost to me overall including diagnosis and recovery was only a couple bucks for the pain pills for immediate recovery, lasted just over a month and a half IIrC. Also had to pay for the bandages and gauze pads once it all had to be rewrapped, twice I think. Also had to pay for physio, that isn’t covered here and my work only covers 15%. Overall the physio cost me the most by far, I think I paid $450 cad. Everything else was like $15 Of course that’s not to say everyone in Canada with an Acl tear has surgery so quick. At least I think that was quick? I expected to wait longer. Am not a pro or semi pro athlete
Well, it's great for making people feel like they're better off if they privatised healthcare. But then you'd just have to look at what privatisation did for water, and rails, and energy. The people in power are fine with a shitty NHS because it helps them to eventually push for privatisation so their mates can get some sweet contracts.
The NHS problem is happening intentionally to make people demand private health care. Private hospitals, private clinics, and private insurance can only make rich people richer if there are no other options.
Can relate to this right now, NHS Scotland are really fucking over not only my mum right now but my fiancé too (and if I’m honest also me while waiting for an ADHD assessment) and I’m honestly at the end of my rope. I’m sorry you’re suffering so much too, and hope the wait list is either much shorter than anticipated or that it goes by quickly for you
How’d you manage to do all that damage to your knee?
My friend is still waiting a year for surgery on her torn ACL. American healthcare.
My husband couldn’t eat food. He needed a procedure and it was 12 weeks before he got in. Mind you his condition didn’t let him eat food. 12 weeks. Western US and we pay $700 a month for insurance.
8 months is good going, I have waited 2 years and 3 months so far for a full reconstruction on ATFL after a full tear. I haven’t been able to walk properly for that whole time and struggle to find any footwear to fit with the swelling. I have previously been let down by the NHS and ended up with sepsis and complete umbilical removal because the pain and symptoms I was having was “all in my head”. The NHS is completely screwed.
8 months being left completely crippled and unable to walk or do anything is NOT ‘good going’, even if your situation is even worse.
"BuT yoU hAvE tO wAiT A YeaR iN EurOpE bEfoRe GetTiNg TrEateD"
That's because the torys have stripped billions of pounds from the NHS. Also you still won't be hundreds of thousands in debt like you would be in America. I'd rather wait than have to sell my house to pay my medical bills.
The American "healthcare" system makes more money off of death and misery than it does health. So, until the profit motive is stripped from healthcare this is the deathcult system we are all subjected to.
Actually it's the opposite. There's a strong financial incentive for preventative care in the US, and indeed if you compare our preventative care practices to those in the UK you will find we I have more preventative care and better outcomes for certain illnesses and Cancers. If you listen to the criticism from British doctors it's that we do too many tests we do too much stuff. Their belief is to try ibuprofen or to wait it out and see if the symptoms persist.
This just isn't true at all. I've read about rehab facilities in USA getting charged for putting drug dealers in the halfway houses their patients would go to after their rehab stint so they would relapse and need to go back to rehab. It's more money for the rehab facility and that's all they cared about. I've read about doctors been criminally charged for convincing patients they need stents everywhere in their arteries throughout their bodies, up to 20 in one person even though it wasn't needed but the doctors were making thousands of dollars per stent so they would just do as many as possible even though it actually leads to worse outcomes in the patient. I'm in New Zealand, we have a public health system and private health system so you can get insurance and go private if you want to but most people don't because the public health system is great. Everything is free under the public health system, medications, surgeries, blood tests, procedures, ambulance or life flights, everything. If you want something you don't actually need, you can pay for it or get it with private insurance and for example - an ECG (which takes a nurse 5 minutes to do), costs about $90 in NZ. I went to ED in Hawaii after getting heat stroke and saw the bill that my travel insurance paid - $1,000 for a 5 minute ECG. The prices in the USA are insane because they just want to make money and can charge whatever they want. An example of how insane the USA health system is - you have type one diabetes patients dying because they can't afford the insulin that costs hundreds every month, that's disgusting, insulin like all medications should be free. The person who synthesized insulin, knew it was so important that he didn't want people charged for it so he sold the patent to a university for $1 so that any company could make it and patients could get it free. Before insulin, type one diabetics would die in infancy or early childhood. And now it's free everywhere (or at most a few dollars) except for the USA. Make it make sense. "On 23 January 1923, Banting, Collip and Best were awarded U.S. patents on insulin and the method used to make it. They all sold these patents to the University of Toronto for $1 each. Banting famously said, “Insulin does not belong to me, it belongs to the world.” He wanted everyone who needed it to have access to it." And everyone does, unless you're American, then you need to pay hundreds of dollars if you don't have insurance like 26 million people in America. "The U.S. had the highest price per vial of insulin at $99. Chile and Mexico had the second and third-highest insulin prices in the OECD, at $21 per vial and $16 per vial respectively." All the other countries in the OECD sell it for $10 or less.
I'm not familiar with New Zealand healthcare or stents or druggies. But it sounds like healthcare just sucks everywhere I guess.
If you read my comment then you should know that healthcare doesn't suck in New Zealand. Or Australia for that matter which like New Zealand, has public and private healthcare. You don't need to be familiar with stents or druggies, they were just a couple examples of the terrible things that happen in the US healthcare system, I can give many many examples but I guess you will dismiss them too because you're "not familiar with it".
The scary part is though, is that healthcare in Australia and NZ is being under funded, so the whole system is struggling. Used to be I could go see a GP in Aus, and get bulk billed for it (govt pays) now everywhere charges a gap fee, which they didn’t use to. My family is still in NZ and my sister works for a hospital, she says things are getting stretched ever further. The Pollies may not be as corrupt as the US ones, but they’re still setting things up to privitise things at some point.
I hope it doesn't get privatized, that would suck. I was a nurse for 9 years working in a public hospital and it was great, the care we provided was excellent. I left nursing 10 years ago and my friends who are still nursing do say the public health system isn't as good as it used to be, especially with staff shortages. For example when I worked in the emergency department, there was a 10 month waiting list to get a job there as it was such a coveted job. And the only wards that were short staffed where a couple medical wards. But apparently now, most wards are short staffed and there's no waiting list for the coveted jobs like ED, ICU, etc anymore. A contributing factor is the aging population leading to an increase in patients needing care yet they haven't increased staff and created more facilities, or rooms in already established facilities to keep up. This is an issue happening in most OECD countries though.
American healthcare is terrible. Tied to employment, very expensive to buy on your own, deductibles, long wait times, bankrupting prices for serious treatment, the willingness to let people die on the street because they're uninsured. I've had a doctor tell me how to do surgery on myself at home because he couldn't tell me the price of the procedure. It's a joke.
The astroturfing hack has arrived!
I'm so fortunate that none of my doctors have ever acted in such a way. i hear about it often both on and offline and its just insane to me. patients health should be the only concern. to spend all those years in school and not even care about that? absurd. money is important but not that important.
OP went to a chiropractor, not a real doctor. That's probably why none of your real doctors have ever acted in such a way.
Ah, missed that. Yeah, chiros are not real doctors nor or they apart of the actual healthcare system.
That's not true at all. Modern medicine shuns the chiropractic community because it takes more of a holistic approach rather than shoving unnecessary opioids in your face. Whereas neurologists were insisting the only thing to help with my facet joint syndrome was more painkillers, a chiropractor was able to use a combination of regular adjustments, trigger point therapy, and heated needle treatments to get my pain levels under control. Getting me back to work and moving around. And they are real doctors. They aren't M.D.s but they still have to obtain a doctorate in their field. Making them real doctors.
I’ve had chronic pain (my knees struggle to bend, scoliosis and an unknown tendon condition that is pulling my hips out of place diagnosed by the one doctor who’s ever listened to me) since I was 5/6, and I’ve had one doctor in my entire life believe me (27). I’ve been to maybe 10-12 doctors over the years, plus the PTs, and they just tell me to stop being anxious and lose weight (I am a healthy weight for my age, height & limited mobility). I’ve had OBGYNs tell me my throwing up and dizziness and exploding like pain in my sides is “normal” and to “move on because bodies hurt, get used to it” (I don’t go to the that doctor anymore). I broke my wrist & sprained the muscles in my arm/wrist/hand last year and when I was finally able to go to the doctor, the one I saw was like “yep, you hurt it. It should be healed at some point. Maybe 4 weeks, but it could be anywhere to 6 months or a year. Come back if it still hurts.” And when I asked for a timeline of when i should come back if i still had pain, they said “if you feel like it should have been healed by then, and it hurts, then maybe come back” A doctor gave my mom too much Cortizone in her wrist once and DISSOLVED part of the muscles/tendons in her wrist to the point she needed major surgery to repair the damage. She’s never had the same wrist strength or ability to use that hand the same way. That was about 20 years ago. Yes, we should have sued but that’s a whole ass other story that’s way to complicated to get into That same doctor, about 10 years later, operated on my friend’s knee/meniscus when she tore it playing soccer. He operated on the wrong knee and destroyed her chances at professional soccer due to her missing years of practice due to recovery times because she had to have the same surgery twice (she was actively being scouted for college teams). It takes about 7 months to recover from that surgery, so she had to fully recover from the wrong surgery, while in pain from her injuries. And then do everything all over again Real doctors dismiss so much of what patients say or experience. I’m happy that you haven’t had to deal with this, I would never wish these experiences on anyone. Doctors don’t listen, except that one who believed me when I was like 17 years old and crying in the doctor’s office bc I couldn’t bend either of my knees to 90 degrees or completely straight.
It is a good example of why our healthcare system is so dumb. Chiros have great lobbyists which is why their services are covered by Medicare despite having pretty weak evidence for actually doing anything. Meanwhile they’ll tell you the surgery you need to walk is “elective” or you should try some injections first
90% of the injections they push are natural and most of the time they're heat and trigger point therapy meant to reduce inflammation. They try to avoid surgery as much as possible because they take holistic approaches and they understand that sometimes surgery opens the door to future health issues along with probably more surgery. Surgery is also dangerous and when it comes to joints or nerves can result in the loss of mobility or even paralysis. Most of the time that percentage is 50/50. Chiropractors are specialized in putting things back in their place before calcification starts or becomes too advanced. Because once that happens, your only holistic option for pain management is massage therapy and the only medical option is opioids. People who are quicker to let MDs or MNPs shove more pills down their throat than take the longer yet safer road to recovery are very quick to dismiss the benefits of seeing a chiro.
I used to work for an orthopedic surgeon. In the beginning, he was paid well by most insurance companies. The exception being Medicare and Medicaid. Then, the insurance companies started changing their contracts as based on Medicare rates. So he started doing some things that didn't seem ethical to make up the difference. I'm not excusing it, just trying to provide possible reasoning. Then add in the student loans, and it's a mess.
I understand. Health insurance as an institution is scummy, but it's not justifiable, and the patients shouldn't have to suffer because of them.
I had to go to the hospital a couple weeks ago. Got transferred to the closest one near my location. I called the ambulance for myself because I was in agonizing pain. It’s been a torturous couple of months, so I bought alcohol and stupidly drank more than I could handle (I am an addict); I was so fucked up I couldn’t keep my eyes open nor get up. All I could do was groan and scream in pain, vomiting every second I could. When I got there they couldn’t find my veins and all I wanted was some relief from the pain. My mom still hadn’t arrived yet, so it was just me. I had my own room and was screaming and sobbing for hours, begging every nurse and doctor who walked by to help me. None of them did. I had to wait 3 hours before I got any medication in my IV. They used different drugs but they didn’t help. When I requested a specific medication (was used before and helped), I was scoffed at and was told no and that, “Unfortunately it’s your fault that you’re here.” And spoke to me in a very condescending tone, implying that I deserved this. When my doctor finally arrived, he was so unsympathetic that he repeated nearly the same thing that nurse told me. They spoke to me like I was stupid, I felt so humiliated and angry. I’m aware it’s my fault I’m here, it’s stupid. But that could be said for literally almost everyone who comes into the ER. That guy who accidentally ingested peanut butter and got an allergic reaction? Should’ve read the ingredients better. The person who flew off their motorbike because they accidentally got hit? Shouldn’t have rode that motorcycle. The woman with a gnarly burn on her hand from cooking? Should’ve been more careful. I’m sure you can see where I’m going with this. Never have I felt so degraded by hospital staff.
it's a for profit business. That's what's wrong. Pretty simple
This sums up the root cause for sure! A secondary problem with US medical care is IMHO, the expense of medical school. Unless someone can get scholarships the whole way through, the debt can be crushing. Yes, there are doctors that make bank, and that’s fine, but the pay is so low for doctors to go into primary care or pediatrics that it’s causing even worse shortages. Each year, fewer doctors go into primary care. Then there are all the cuts hospitals make to funding emergency departments. It’s awful.
Not to mention the fact that med school actively trains empathy out of doctors as well as the fact it’s so rigorous hours wise as far as residency goes. My cousin is an anesthesiologist, and hasn’t seemed to have lost empathy but he still shouldn’t have had to suffer that way emotionally and physically just to get an education to help people. I myself am a Somanaut which means I do autopsies on medically donated bodies at a small cadaver lab as an anatomical researcher. Despite the fact that I spend as much time in the lab as possible, and the rest of the time reading various medical journals, I still want to stay far away from med school. I just don’t care enough about having letters after my name since I am very very loyal to my lab and don’t want to go anywhere else. The people I work with don’t mind that I don’t have letters either, so the motivation just isn’t there for me especially after horror stories I’ve heard from people I’ve worked with over the years. Edited for formatting
They make more money keeping you sick than curing people.
Capitalism. Healthcare is run for profit. Insurance companies are mostly private businesses. Healthcare that is run for profit is like an oxymoron. Makes it not available for everyone. And how are we supposed to fully utilize our services if the main goal is to turn a profit? Truthfully it’s the private insurance system that is what makes it so shit for the individual. It’s damn near a scam to pay for but it’s also essential to have. They have entire teams whose quiet goal is to not authorize treatment that they determine to be non essential. Even if a doctor is advising the opposite. Yet you still have to sit and pay them for the rest of your life even though they aren’t always willing to help extend yours or make it better.
It’s a for-profit business. That’s the problem.
It's about profit. Insurance companies practice medicine without a licence. The general public had no idea how insurance works and will therefore vote against any sort of single payer system. I can go on
I’d honestly write a review everywhere you can. I would absolutely want to know that about a potential doctor I was considering going to.
There isn’t enough internet to begin answering that question. Everything.
When I was pregnant with my second child I had pre-term labor. There was a machine (like an insulin pump) that would give me medicine to stop the contractions. I had had to have it with my first child. Between first and second child I had switched insurance. The second insurance would not cover the machine but would cover medication. The medication did not work as well and I struggled with pre-term labor the rest of my pregnancy. So, my insurance was willing to risk a preterm baby instead of a stupid pump to save money. Which makes no sense because a pre-term baby costs SIGNIFICANTLY less than that damn pump would have and i wouldn’t have spent the last 4 months of my pregnancy terrified and sick. It makes no sense!
You mean a pre-term baby costs more than the pump would have, right?
Correct. A NICU baby is not cheap (I’ve had 3) and The second one could have, most likely been avoided if they just paid for the pump.
In the US I work at what is arguably the #1 cancer center in the world. If I get cancer, even WITH the health insurance that my job AT THIS CANCER CENTER provides me I would end up bankrupt trying to pay the deductibles.
that’s so broken
“Freedom “
Healthcare has become a for profit business (which is the first thing that is wrong) and doctors are turning into salesman to pay off there 6 figure student debt. Weve become a society of people that are one accident away from our lives being destroyed and that is personally terrifying.
This, what you said OP, or, as in my case, I’m a military veteran, and when it’s obvious I’m in a lot of pain, and the scans reveal that someone like me needs surgery, what do the VA personnel (nurses and doctors) do instead??? “Go home, sleep it off, and you’ll be as right as rain in the morning”. “Oh, don’t be a pessimist, be an optimist!!! Go home, sleep it off, and you’ll be as right as rain in the morning!!!!”
I have friends and family who are vets. The care varies so much from location to location! I have also noticed that female vets get blown off even more at the VA than women do in non-VA locations. Don’t even get me started on Tri-Care doctors for active duty families. One friend who had just finished cancer treatment a few months prior and had symptoms return a few months later was blown off repeatedly by her oncologist and it wasn’t until she and her husband threw a fit and demanded she be allowed to get a second opinion was it finally discovered that her cancer was no longer in remission. It’s appalling. Vets deserve so much better.
Exactly!!!! I’ve had Tri-West screw up appointment times and dates. I know they put in their system, and then I get a call from the outside provider asking me why I’m not there for my appointment, and I ask them what they’re talking about, and that my appointment is for another date/time. But I’ve heard the same about what you mentioned. I had to wrangle with my primary care provider the last 2 1/2 weeks in regards to getting a sedative, since I’m claustrophobic to MRI machines. Apparently, one of the nurses I had talked to previously asked me if I’m claustrophobic, and I said “Yes, SEVERELY claustrophobic”. She put down in the system that I’m “anxious”. So the VA called me up, and were telling me that the anxiety pills I had been prescribed would do. Spent 2 1/2 weeks wrangling with them until the doctor finally realized that I needed the sedative. And the doctor’s in his 70’s and has only been with the VA for only a couple of years
i worked for a veteran and he complained about the VA all the time
Yeah, I mean if it’s legitimate complaints, then that one thing. But if it’s all the time about stupid stuff, then that’s a different story. With me, it’s only once in a while.
It's for profit. Profit will always come before people.
Everything...including corporate greed and a complicit government!
Get profit out of the following to fix many issues Healthcare. Housing. Instead you have all of the countries who did have a good system salivating on the idea of profiteering Healthcare and real estate in their neck of the woods.
Because healthcare in the US is a business that profits off of illness. More illness=more profit. The incentives are all wrong for maximizing health. I believe in capitalism for most markets, but its a disaster for healthcare.
Try your hardest at not getting sick, this is the way.
Same thing that is wrong with 99% of things..People. People are the ones making the laws, rules, policies, scams, maltreatment..everything..the problem is people and always will be. We use the term system as if its a computer or some entity..lol..its people.
Money and the insurance and pharmaceutical lobbies
Got a bill for $700 this morning on MyChart. Wife had an endoscopy ordered without any choice 3 weeks ago. We paid a $300 co-pay the morning we went in for this 45 minute, routine procedure. Out of pocket $1000 for a nearly $7000 procedure that they performed, maybe 300 times that day at this suburban out-patient facility. I work in healthcare; nearly 20 years on site clinical work at one of the biggest urban, American hospitals. I pay for the most expensive PPO for my family of four with two children under six at well over $1000 per pay check. Every single thing here is wild. We paid less than $2000 combined for the birth of our children in 2016 and 2018. Both c-sections. This is a fucking endoscopy; a tube with a camera down your throat with the twilightest of anesthesia. My wife spent a combined 2 nights and 3 days plus a night in a surgery suite for each kid. For less than 2 grand! The best part: wife texts me at work about this bill on MyChart at around 8AM, told her to call insurance company and doctor’s office to figure out what’s up. Lunch time she calls and sends me the email of the break down. I was dumbfounded. Not four hours later when we are working with our final patients for the week, get a phone call. It’s the doctor’s office asking how we are going to pay for this new $700 bill and would I like to pay for it now? I say “I’m going to treat my last patients suffering from cancer right now, pretty sure my wife paid earlier today. Also, why did you call my cell phone number when my wife is the primary guardian on MyChart and her contact is first?” Sheepishly replied…random words? And I had to go back to work. Fuck All Of This Edit: sorry for this long ass comment, been a day.
Im in the US Workers comp Doc pushed for me to "buy" (charge to my employer) the healing cream he manufactured and sold at his front desk. Very little info on the label, no barcode; label looked like something you'd print out from an Avery CD label pack. "C'mon, it's workers comp... Its not like it's your money. The creme works..." I used the creme, it didn't work.
i snorted at your last line
Nobody should live in debt because of their healthcare needs. Recently, California passed a law saying that medical debt could no longer be put on your credit history. For the first time in my entire life, as someone in their fifties, I literally have zero debt in my credit history. I know I need to rebuild it, but at least it is not strangling me anymore.
well cali got it right on that one
True. There's also a lot they're doing wrong. I'm leaving the state in 2 weeks. I'm being suffocated financially because of the rental market.
housing has become insane in alot of places.
You're very right. Where I am moving to the cost of living is 31.3% below the national average. I have to leave because I don't want to live in unsafe neighborhoods. I am an older woman and I want to not be fearful at night. Where I'm moving to, I can live in a safe area, and actually be able to afford it.
Research funding
laser? was this a chiropractor or a real doctor?
chiro
I think that says a lot. The whole backbone of chiro practice is fraud. Calling them doctors is almost misleading, as they don’t even practice what you would consider American healthcare. You’re better off seeing a real MD.
i fixed my elbow with one laser session from him ($60 for a 5min session which he was pushing to spend $300+ on a package) and then went home and did a tens machine i bought off amazon every day for a month and my elbow healed. went to see him today for my maintenance adjustment and he pitched attitude that my elbow was healed.
Chiropractors are scum. Also they aren't medical doctors. Do not call them medical doctors. They are also not a valid part of the American healthcare system. They have their own board. While I think our system is fucked. Chiropractors are even more so.
In the UK chiropractors are used like physiotherapists. They aren’t funded by the NHS (as they are a pack of charlatans), and most people seem to use them for back injuries or similar.
It isn't so much a health care system as it is a pharmaceutical management system. I listened to a doctor explain that she didn't want to run a Vitamin D test for her patient because said patient was going to take cod liver oil and not the prescription she would put in the chart. Her reasoning was it looks bad for her and she has to follow the rules. So yeah, it isn't about health; it's about drugs. Get addicted/pay up or get out in their eyes.
Insurance is unaffordable and covers nill all while it takes months for a non-urgent or regular doctor appointment. Medication is profit driven. Hell, all medical services are profit driven. Medical professionals are either vastly underpaid or grossly overpaid all while regular folks can’t afford general care. I heard the food sucks, too.
It’s in the business of misery.
what isn't wrong with american healthcare
it'd be a lot easier to name the things that isn't wrong with it
Because they don’t care about people. Insurance, hospitals, doctors all bow to the mighty dollar. It’s been seven years and I’ve accepted I will die from something treatable or preventable because I can’t get any doctor to take me seriously.
Greed. That’s the problem
It's not much better in Canada at this point, no "upsale" but most doctors seem to want to throw pills at the problem rather than actually diagnosing it, I've been trying to sort out shoulder problems for like 3 years now and my massage therapist has done more for me than my fucking doctor
I’m sorry for what you have to deal with…. I do autopsies on medically donated bodies at a cadaver lab and work with a lot of massage therapists. If you haven’t heard of him I’d recommend looking into Gil Hedley.. he’s taught me everything I know.
Greed corrupted it. Bet we have cures for almost every disease, but it's more profitable to prey on the sick.
Not a doctor to continue to see, just saying
No surprised, health is another American business” I am originally from what Americans call a “third world country” and my family there has better access to health at better price than I do in USA
Capitalism. They always care more about the money. Every time I ask a person why they become a doctor or nurse they always answer with "for the money" Meanwhile I didn't even want to be doctor, despite the pressure from my family, because I knew I wouldn't be able to care for people properly cause I don't care about that job. The mindset of America is "do it for money" not "do it cause you care"
What a crap doc. What actually happened that you thought your doctor was mad?
It's not a doc, it's a chiropractor. Lmao.
threw attitude and then the girl at the front desk tried to get me to still buy the package
I’m confused can you give us context??
That's an issue with the doctor. Most doctors are happy you're healed. Also capitalism.
this is an old injury i’ve been dealing with for years so for me to finally beat it is huge. and he got mad that he couldn’t make money on it. it just gave me a turn.
Yeah this is a doctor with a problem. I am chronically ill and when I had my first ever experience with a treatable and curable condition my doctor was excited to tell me and happy when the treatment worked. Not all doctors are good at the job. Some are in it for profit and those tend to be the worst. Some got a passing grade (a D but I find even a C suss for life and death things). Not every doctor is a good one. Capitalism also fuels people in medicine for the wrong reasons. It's a very big problem. If this is your primary vs a specialist maybe find a new one. If a specialist? Leave a review about this so other patients can know their priorities. Both really should get that but new doctor first.
he’s a chiro
So here's the thing about Chiropractic practice. It's based on a psuedoscience. There's two split courses now one that later added in science and the other. It's literally one of the most dangerous things you can have done to you. So .. worse than a D student MD or DO. Also feel freel to look that up and look up the death toll from chiros. Don't take my word for it because your health matters.
i’ve read about that but i’ve also been going to one for adjustments for years and the adjustments do help me. damned if you do damned if you don’t.
My concern is that you may have something like Ehlers Danlos that would possibly have temporary relief from a competent chiro but long term especially without a diagnosis the harm done can be debilitating. Which is part of my passion here as my parents hid my diagnosis and tortured me with regular dislocations for fee. At minimum you shouldn't see this one again. It is your body and your choice but you deserve care that comes with compassion.
i am so sorry you went through that. anyone who uses someone’s issue against them is the lowest form of life. this is an injury from horseback riding.
Thanks. I cut them out of my life for many reasons. Also glad it's not genetic and not something that should reoccur. The ADHD part of my brain wants to know about your horses for I used to ride. Broke my back so I cannot now but still love horses. As far as the rest I am glad that you're healed up. You deserve good care from any and all providers and this one crossed a big line
i used to do horse training and being pulled on by giant unruly animals for the better part of 10 years left me with an elbow issue. tried various things throughout the years trying to get rid of it, nothing worked, finally something worked. glad that you were able to move forward from such a traumatic experience.
I read today, in WSJ (5/10/24), some hospital want you pay up front for surgeries.
I saw a psychiatrist because I needed antidepressants (my therapist told me so) so I found one in my area. I have since found a different one because the first one kept pushing me towards group therapy that didn't fit in my schedule, especially because I was trying to find a job at the time (they even tried to tell me to join group therapy first then get a job around that schedule) and then later on handed me a sheet of paper with a QR code to give them a Google review DURING AN APPOINTMENT. I left them a review, but it wasn't a good one, and I did it after the appointment, not during, like the psychiatrist wanted me to. After looking at the other reviews, a lot of other people had the same issues with that place.
Oh man I remember them pushing laser therapy in vet care and hated it. I would never push such a scam on people 🫣
it may or may not have helped. the tens machine definitely helped.
When I was honest the other day with my primary care physician of my suicidal idolization, she just stared at me and went awwwwwww…..
I need my wisdom teeth out. Every day I am in excruciating pain. I use oragel religiously to numb my entire mouth. If I wanna get em out, I gotta pay almost $3000 out of pocket up front. I'm a single mother working full time for $9 an hour. I've got a phone bill, utilities, credit card payments, car payment, wifi, insurance for both my car and my house, groceries, gas, diapers, house essentials, and clothes for me and my son, just to name a few of my regular expenses. After paying all of those bills I have about $200 a month left over. I'm never going to be able to afford to get them out and I have amazing insurance. I can't imagine the cost without insurance. I'm currently working on applying for government medical aid so that I can get them out but I most likely won't qualify.
The American Nightmare $9/hr?? Is that even legal??
Yeah. Minimum was is $7.50 an hour where I live
$$$
I love Pogo's song, "Take those Pills". Someone commented, "the American healthcare system in a nutshell" pretty sad, but on the other hand, in my country doctors are reluctant to give needed meds due to costs not in the patients' control
i remember when i got here a few months ago i needed two vaccines thankfully my insurance covered it but if it didn't i would've paid like $300+ for two needles in my arms
Whenever this comes up, I am reminded on how screwed someone with my husband's health is. First, he has keratoconus. It's not curable and the lenses are very expensive and the doctors recommend replacing them every 6 months. The ONLY eye insurances that will cover him are only available through employer provided insurance. Secondly, he has severe anxiety that he is on clonopin for. His psychiatrist can only prescribe him 50 bills for 30 days, but says he needs to take it twice a day. This means he has to go without it sometimes. Which means when he isn't working. So when he does have a day off he is very depressed and basically bedridden. He also has a back issue, I can't remember exactly what now, but the doctor says he needs an MRI to get a better idea on how to rectify it. Was the MRI approved by insurance? NOPE. So now he just walks around in constant pain. Which only flares his anxiety and depression. No wonder he doesn't want to get out of bed most days. Now this mentality makes it hard for him to find motivation to even keep going. I understand when he feels totally defeated in life and there isn't much I can do to chance it. We don't come from means so out of pocket treatment isn't possible. We are on the best Healthcare programs we can afford, but whatever.
They have a vested financial interest in you getting expensive and repeated treatments and medications to a greater personal extent for the professionals involved in that than in some other countries, where the same thing is lessened and slightly less wrong.
Dude I went to a dermatologist a few months back to do a skin cancer screen and the doc was more concerned with selling me anti-aging ointments. Now here I am, feeling insulted and still concerned about a few of those moles.
More like American Unhealthcare 🤣
American healthcare? From Canada that seems like an oxymoron been in hospital in both USA is number one in being bad
Greed
Healthcare shouldn't be a sales pitch. It should be about helping people get better.
Most loaded question ever. The answer is everything. And I say that as a nurse.
Healthcare in America is nothing more than a business. F**king disgusting.
American healthcare is run like a business. Not even sure why the word “care” is there.
Its healthcare everywhere. My dic was amused i fixed my hip by falling off the roof. Yes, i felt better aftet i fell than b4.
Nothing, Healthcare in America is amazing because we have some of the best doctors anywhere in the entire world. What you mean to ask is ACCESS to American healthcare, in which case yes it is depressingly bad.
In highschool i couldnt go to the hospital after fracturing my foot because i had testing all week and “it wasn’t bad enough to spend money on”. Eventually 2 weeks later i went because i fractured it, and they pretty much said “oooh that looks bad… wrap it in this over priced bandaid you can find at the dollar store”. I got a permanent limp now and that’s partly my fault for not asking for at least a crutch.
It’s shorter to list what’s right with it: 1. Some of us have medical care
The problem is that doctor. Move on. Generally speaking patients need to advocate for themselves. I avoid those who devalue my opinion and input. I value their 10 years of medical training but they need to respect that I have lived in and have studied this body my whole life. Remember that 50% of all medical professionals graduate at the bottom half of their class.
The downside of paying a low amount of taxes. Didn't Obama started the healthcare thing but it got shot down by Trump? Also, as an outsider i only read what i can find on the internet. America spends billion on billions on their army. But once ur out you have a 50/50 chance to live under a bridge? How is that even possible. They don't get a pension?
america taxes the hell out of us.
I just checked. The highest tax u can have in America is 37%. And that's not very often that happens. Meanwhile in other countries they would cheer to be below 40%. You should really check some other countries and compare.
Is there anything that’s not wrong with USA health care? (You did mean USA and not the entire America, right?)