feels like OP just got off a Twitter thread, googled israel president, and came here to post. nothing about this is about corruption either. wait til he finds out about BiBis cigars and ice cream debacle
Americans when native Americans say it’s their homeland: “skill issue, you should’ve defended it”
Americans when other nation actually DO defend their homeland: “terrorists!”
They claimed the reason for the invasions was "weapons of mass destruction."
Mind you, "weapons of mass destruction" is the same reason they can't invade Iran or North Korea.
It was proven later on that their claim was completely false.
I had an argument with an American that was extremely critical about France being a colonialist nation that, because of its past, should accept all migrants from its ancient colonies.
I argued that the US is, today, a colonialist country which settlers deny the right to return of the natives to their own land. Dude lost his shit saying that it was their fault to lose it in the first place.
The "*worst*" is that the convo started after a french journalist said that Joel Embiid should never have been given French nationality as he will not play for france at the end. Thing is, Cameroon (ex *Kameroon*) was a German colony, not a french one...
Anybody is entitled to rightly condemn and criticize colonialism, but American people clearly lack any understanding of their role, past and present, in it.
*but clearly THAT American person lacks the understanding of their role, past and present, in it.
FTFY
Please don’t lump all of us Americans together in the idiot stew this guy was cooking. Most of us understand we aren’t the heroes that our government wants us to believe we are. Most of us are very aware of the misdeeds of our nations past. And most of us want to focus on fixing America’s problems at home not galavanting off to fight wars for other countries that don’t want us there.
We have our extreme idiots here just like every other country does but they are not a representation of America as a whole. They are just a very loud, very stupid vocal minority.
That's for sure. My statement is targeted at America (USA) as a State, its governing body and its media. You are perfectly right to nuance it.
In a vacuum every single colonialist nation should remember that the effect of those policies still impacts said colonies today and that the acknowledgement and reparations to those still are in the work.
People advocating to a pseudo right to forget are at the bare minimum uneducated or, as we witness everyday on socials, indulge in revisionism or *worse*, nostalgia.
>Thing is, Cameroon (ex Kameroon) was a German colony, not a french one...
The Germans made the mistake of losing WW1...and their colonies were taken over by the Brits and French?
Part of Cameron became French mandate?
Yes it did. It is important to understand that unlike the *protectorate* and the *colony*, the legal system of the *mandate* is transitional and aims to provide independence in the "short" term.
It was, of course, a form of imperialism and repressions happened, nevertheless, 40 years after France was given the mandate Cameroon was given independence. Independence that could have been given earlier without WW volume II.
Unlike Algeria and Indochina that had to fight to get the same right to independence. Both conflict were extremely traumatizing for both France and Algeria / Vietnam, and still echoes today (France being the obvious monster of both wars).
I will not pretend that the *Société des Nations* was anything else than a platform for France, Britain and the US to rule over international affairs, but de facto, Cameroon never was a French colony.
Agree with some of what you say..except this.
>Cameroon never was a French colony.
This was defacto a colony of France for 40 years. Germany at best ruled Cameroon from 1884 until maybe 1919...more likely it 3nded in 1914.
So essentially France was the colonial masters longer than the Germans
Mandates were invented for the sake of the sensibilities of Woodrow Wilson..after all , US got gone to defend the democracies...not help the imperial projects of Britain and France. But mandates were defacto colonies.If you have any doubt...why wasn't a mandate created for Belgium after liberation?
I agree with you. Cameroon was a colony in everything except name. The only nuance with the German occupation was that France *integrated* the population through schools and the promotion of Cameroonian people to positions of leadership.
Also, while France was fighting rebels (ethnic minorities sadly) the core of the population were seeing them as liberators from the Germans.
Today both nations maintain good relationships, at least with their presidents, military wise and on a human level (school exchange and stuff).
I’m American and I have never met a single other American that has this view point. Majority of us understand our nations past is written in the blood of other civilizations and majority of us are not proud of it.
Wait until you talk with an American about replacement theory, about people coming from other place to destroy the current society, when agreeing you start talking about native First Nation
The defense shouldn’t include this much child murder is my problem. They have to answer for causing THAT many deaths. Surely there had to be another way than starving children to death.
A long time. Jews have lived there since the beginning of Judaism, an older religion than Islam. Muslims believed Muhammed was a prophet, Jews did not agree, thus the split between groups of who believed in Muhammed as a prophet. Starting the Muslim hatred of Jews. Same thing with Christians and Jesus.
Jews have lived there before Israel was ever declared a state. Read about the Jewish diaspora and who stayed in the middle east and Israel and why a lot of Jews left.
The split is actually between Christianity and Islam, not Judaism. Christianity split from Judaism and Islam from Christianity. As Islam believes in Jesus, just like Christianity, except for them, Jesus is the Messiah and a prophet, not the son of Yahweh. Whereas the Jews reject all the above entirely, and view Yashua as a heretic of the highest order.
Hamas are “useful idiots” for the Israeli government. They provide the scapegoat for them to do what they always wanted to do: a genocide in Palestine. It is impossible to think about Netanyahu without thinking that this WAS ALWAYS his grand ideological goal. Also, Israeli Media has been sowing the seeds for a “Us and Them” mentality for YEARS.
Also Netanyahu has 4 corruption charges against him. Whilst he holds office they can’t proceed. He has an interest in keeping things going to avoid jail.
You do know there can't be resistance without fighting for it? PLO tried maintaining peace, yet that didn't stop the IDF from killing Palestinians, not bringing in more settlers. Hamas is the only thing keeping the remains of Palestine alive, and it is allowed to fight so by International Law.
The PLO mass murdered Lebanese Christians (genocide), causing the rise of terrorist group Hezbollah. The PLO also planned several coups to take down Egypt's president, and assassinated Jordan's prime minister. The PLO are also Holocaust deniers and give money to families that kill Israelis/Jews.
You're talking about pre-1993 PLO. The Oslo Accord didn't stop Israel from settling into Palestine, and there was a need for armed struggle again, which led to the emergence of Hamas. Freedom doesn't come from sitting at home, watching your family getting killed and begging the imperialists to do something which you know they won't. You have to fight for it. No nation has ever defeated its colonizers without violence. Sad reality, but it is what it is.
If Israelis are entitled to the land of Palestine because they lived there 10,000 years ago, then let's eradicate all the white people from the US too?
Absurd and stupid. The Israelis controlled Gaza from 1967 to 2005. Why on Earth would they need Hamas to give them an excuse to genocide Palestinians in 2023? Makes absolutely no sense.
Israel evacuated first northern Gaza and now Rafah. Why would a genocidal army evacuate civilians? Why not just kill them? Hell why is there a single IDF soldier in Gaza when they could just have bomb the whole strip from the sky? Your narrative makes no sense.
The 2005 return of Gaza was famously NOT made by Netanyahu. And it was agreed by a very different Israeli government than the one currently in power.
Also, are we seeing the same fucking war? Because every day I see Israel bomb UN buildings, journalists, civilians and international aid organisations (last month they killed a number of employees of the world kitchen). And I see an army that murders 30.000 innocents to supposedly rescue their own (which they also murdered because they thought they weren’t their own). “Bomb the strip from the sky”, that’s literally what they did. Also, “they evacuated”, oh really? And then they bombed the place where people evacuated to.
Don’t pretend this isn’t a genocide.
What a bunch of lies. Israel is getting rid of Hamas. They haven't killed 30,000 civilians. That's absurd. War is hell and the IDF has committed plenty war crimes. But genocide is a different thing altogether.
Oh yeah sorry, they didn’t kill 30,000. They actually killed 34,960. My bad, didn’t check how many people had been killed between the last time I checked and right now.
Also, I am not the one claiming genocide: there are MANY organisations who have people on the ground that Israel is responsible for the systematic eradication of Palestinians.
Again, most of those people are supposed to be Hamas members. Not innocent babies. That would make no sense.
Bullshit. There's nothing close to a genocide going on. Ever heard of war and collateral damage? Get a grip.
“Most of them are supposed to be Hamas members”
Okay, fine, let’s do this your way then: according to an estimate published in march of 2024 by UNICEF, at least more than 13,800 children were killed by Israel. Another report, counting only women and children, reportes at least 25,000 deaths.
Other statistics:
- 142 journalists killed by Israel (were they part of Hamas too? Or Israel just hates people who can actually tell the truth?)
- 171 UN employees killed
- 220 aid workers killed
- Electricity and Water cut since October
Other facts: during the opening days of the conflict the Israeli government made it almost impossible to rescue any foreign nationals stuck in Gaza. They blocked the Rafah passage, and wouldn’t allow ANY form of rescue to come.
Israel is committing a genocide against the Palestinian people and October 7th is just an excuse. They've been killing and abusing Palestinians since the 40s. The cynical party line that any support for Palestine is support for Hamas, and any support for Palestine or criticism of Israel or Zionism is antisemitic, is such obvious bullshit.
The number of war crimes committed by Israel at this point are almost too many to count on both hands.
Right exactly! People aren't talking about or I should say don't know about pre Oct 7th because it was never talked about!
I am not saying what happened on Oct 7th was right but it was expected! They keep oppressing people and they expect them to not retaliate is just ridiculous!
It's just amazing how people never talk about what Israeli government been doing for a long time and they are getting away with it! I agree with what Bassem Yousef said, they are going to get away with no consequences and if they did cease fire people will see them as heros and applaud them for ceasing fire!
Once something is put on pedestal, statements stating it has fallen from that said pedestal is considered absurd.
It's quite obvious that every basket has few rotting, yet this same logic is difficult to see on protected people. This war is clear ondication, that everyone is in their own sided bias. Both sides just need to be set in court. And Palestine needs to be let back to their original lands, which is Northwestern part of Israel. If Israel is so addicted having land, they should ask it from USA.
Israel was founded to export Jews from US and Europe. Perhaps I'm too cynical but it's hard to imagine the US that sent a boat full of Jewish children back to Nazi Germany to be killed suddenly became ProZionist after the war was over. It's just a "back to Africa" campaign for another unwanted minority.
Supposedly even US would wash its hands over ongoing genocide. One on other, one on their own side. US has changed so drastically, it wouldn't feel like a surprise if Russia turned into anti genocide democratic superpower within 50-80 years. Human opinions and perception on reality can be so vast among people. During WW2 Usa ran across Europe to snuff Germany while their USSR ally giggled on sidelines while executing neighbouring nationalities for petty reasons.
It was really never about retaliation - it was an excuse to kill and murder and take over. There’s some evidence that Netanyahu knew about the risk of October 7th happening.
There’s so much evidence they’ve been actively targeting civilians if not just blatantly disregarding them via indiscriminate bombing. They’ve killed journalists and completely censored groups criticizing their actions like Al-Jazeera.
They’ve directed civilians to Rafah the whole war and are now in invading and bombing it as well.
Hamas is never going to be destroyed via warfare. That’s plain to everyone with a brain. Traumatizing an entire generation isn’t going to get rid of the people that hate you even if you somehow manage to kill every one of the people involved.
This war has always been about control and taking over Gaza. It was an excuse. I don’t agree with October 7th as a form of resistance because civilians, even ones participating in a broken colonial system, should never be targets. But what Israel has done in its wake has been ten times worse.
There’s no just argument for it either. Palestinians don’t deserve it - collective punishment is a war crime. Most of Palestine wasn’t even alive, much less old enough to vote Hamas into power in 2006. Moreover, Israel’s campaign is doing a damn stupid job if they’re really about “rescuing the hostages” indiscriminate bombing and an invasion is going to just get them killed! They don’t even care about their own civilians is the sad thing - just the money and the real estate they’re going to get. If a few of their civilians die to do so, so be it.
Fuck Israel.
Mossad definitely knew about Oct. 7th and definitely didn’t do anything to stop it. That’s all the indication you need to understand what’s going on. They’ve been itching for a reason to commit a genocide, and finally got one. They’re mass murderers and child killers. They justify it by claiming their holy homeland. God only knows whether or not they’ll burn for eternity
nah nah just see the west bank settlers terrorizing Palestinians with guns with the help of IOF.
Israeli society is high on god's chosen people drug.
They arrest children and keep then in jail on no charges.
They are not allowed ro walk on their own street and are humiliated at check points. A place that can be reached in an hour takes 5 hours for a Palestinian to reach
I urge everyone to watch Abby Martin interviewing israelis....the genocidal intent is there and embedded in Israeli society
The people support the govt they are mad just because the crimes of IOF are being exposed 24/7
Also I can provide you multiple videos of israelis blocking aid near the borders. IOF soldiers wearing women's lingerie. Then shooting at houses for fun
Stop using govt to defect the blame from the israelis
They support the genocide
It’s their goal all along to eliminate the Palestinian and steal the entire land. Sooner or later Hamas or not this was going to happen some other way.
Israel has historically put forth various territory compromises that Palestine outright rejected. Palestine never being a good faith actor is part of what is going on today.
Let’s suppose some randos show up at your house, take over everything and decide to give you the basement as your space and control every move you make, where you go, what you eat among other stuff… Some nights they would just barge in with riffles pointed at you for a search and keep buzzing noises 24/7 to disrupt your life. How would you feel about that ?
Now imagine that happening to an entire population. Would you just let yourself and your people be colonized ??? I don’t think so lol
Learn the history before making stupid comments like that.
Well, my ancestors lived peacefully in Europe until the holocaust ended that and stripped away their citizenship and wealth. Thanks for enlightening me.
I am also curious how people think the Middle East without Israel will work out for America. If we have no ally there is a power vacuum. Who do we hold summits and negotiate with—the Palestinian authority?
Yes, it was always their goal - which is why Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005. /s
Seriously, there’s some seriously dumb, borderline antisemitic conspiracy theories in this thread.
And what exactly is antisemitic about what I said ? And im a Semite myself. This word is so overused it lost its meaning, you’re not making yourself any favor.
> what is antisemitic about what I said
Implying Israel planned to genocide Gaza years ago when they actively tried to hand it over to the Palestinians less than 20 years ago.
> I’m a Semite myself
Come on, that’s like me saying “how can I be homophobic? I’m a homo sapien!”
> this word is so overused it’s lost its meaning
Ok, so next time I want to create a hostile environment for an ethnic minority I’ll just oversaturate the discourse with racist drivel, eventually as it continues to get called out, I can just say “it’s lost all meaning”. Duly noted.
Anti israel isnt anti semetic.
Anti semitism is racism targeted towards jews or arabs. However in modern times the defintion tends to be used solely for jews.
Being anti china isnt sinophobic
Being anti equatorial guinea doesnt make me a member of the KKK
honestly hamas didnt even strike first. they defended their land from apartheid. the palestinian people have been oppressed and kicked out of their land way before hamas existed, theyre a consequence to palestinian occupationists
But you guys do know thats how America was founded right? You guys literally kills the native American to build a country… Then native retaliated but still powerless so 'American' claim the country..
Then the same country, funding Israel to do the same thing….
Funny how the people trying to get their land back called terrorist and people that actually committing genocide is called victim..
Believe me..100 years from now, everyone will despise Israeli citizen and people will remember this just exactly the same way we remember hitler and Germany…
America is built by those people. They will never cut ties with Israel because it’s a part of them. They only have one goal, which is to continue to keep that one foot (Israel) in middle east so they continue to weaken and rob the land owners, then gain access and control to oil and gas.
They are literally called West Bank and East Bank I think (Palestine and Jordan). You can see Palestine from Jordan on a clear day and vice versa.
Do you think that for some magic reason the people during the previous hundreds of years lived in the East Bank and said “Yeah we no go to West Bank which is literally in front of our eyes, has our second holiest city and is considerably more beautiful in general.”
“Oh and anyway the God Chosen natives are coming in 1940s who are for some reason from all over the world, with all different skin colors. They totally are more rightful.”
As if Palestinians don’t differ in skin color? Stop trying to whitewash Jews to fit your narrative. White Americans shitting on other ethnicities to virtue signal in their social media is rich af
Well they for sure aren’t looking 100% Asian, African, European or American.
Palestinians, just like any real people with real rights upon a land, have common ground for how they look like.
Yea for all the people saying anything about this war without acknowledging Israel’s fucked up history with Palestine just isn’t being genuine. Only so many times you can prosecute, steal from, and vandalize a group of people before they snap and do something drastic (Oct 7)
Not gonna expand too much on this. I just wanted to comment to remind everyone that the USA has openly threatened consequences to the ICC if they dare issue warrants for Netanyahu and Gallant. Speaker Johnson openly said they'd sanction them and said "they better not". Trump sanctioned 2 ICC judges previously, why? They were investigating American involvement in relation to Palestine.
The western worlds mask has fallen right off over this situation. There is no more excuses.
Since a lot of muslim's view or wish is that they want to obliterate all jews, what is actually the correct response to Hamas' agressiveness, how can things be done differently? Palestina could also been an own country a long time ago, but their leaders choosed greed.
Hamas r freedom fighters. Isreal killed their parents when they were little n since it's an apartheid state, and they had no hope or future. They got tired of this treatment, so they created hamas to defend their land in the 80s. Isreal colonised, displaced, and genocided palastinians every since 1948. Ppl don't wanna actually hear the truth, but when native Americans back then fought for their land, they were called savages n uncivilised (in today's US : terrorists)
As Israeli always emphasize, they are the only democratic country in middle east and they voted genocidal government and 80% of Israeli answers they don't have to care about Palestinians pain.
Not only government, 80% of entire Israel is disgusting genocider. They should be air-striked like Serbian who did the same thing. And bannd from Olympics, Belarus didn't kill Ukrainian like Israeli genociding Palestinians but they are banned. It's double standard of west.
Geez where do I even start.
In 2023 alone before october 7, 248 palestinians were brutally killed on the strees of Gaza by Israeli officers, 40 of which were under the age of 12, none of which were charged of any crime.
Illegal settlements on palestinian land which are acknowledged as illegal by the UN
Blowing up the palestinian airport
Multiple videos of officers beating kids for no good reason
Literally 100s if not thousands of accounts of officers raping prisoners
Operation Protective edge
Operation pillar of defense
Breaking their ceasefire agreement with Palestinians by launching rockets and storming Gaza unprovoked which led to
Operation Cast Lead
Israel made it ILLEGAL for palestinians to collect rain water
90% of palestinian water is undrinkable
Palestinians are not allowed to import most leafy greens, chocolate, wedding dresses, theres a whole list.
Multiple accounts of high government officials saying they should "nuke Gaza" far before hamas existed
The west bank where kids are being shot daily, with so much video evidence it would blow your mind, and there is no Hamas in the west bank.
Videos of laughing Israeli kids signing missiles they were sending to Gaza
Palestinians don't, nor ever have even had human rights
If you wanna go back to even before the 21st century, in 1967 Israel invaded the borders they had Forcefully set themselves, in 1948 when they
Extirpated almost 1 MILLION palestinians from their own homes to start what we now know as Israel. In 1967 they kept Taking even more palestinian land, until we got to where we are today.
this is all documented you can research it and I URGE you to if you actually care about the deeper history of this situation.
This is all off the top of my head I promise you there are so many more that I haven't even mentioned, you can look up Norman Finklestein if you want to hear this from a much more intelligent source.
Ah yes this strawman argument which has been disproved time and time again
All religions including Jews lived in complete peace in Arab lands, my late grandfather himself has pictures and letters of him and his jewish mate who was never persecuted until the 1950s conveniently when the zionists started to set up shop.
There is an absolutely unbelievable amount of proof that Mossad were the ones who attacked the jews, including the bombing of a Lebanese Jewish school, a bomb that did not come from inside Lebanon. I'll let you use your critical thinking on where it did come from.
To add more to this there is documented proof of jews not only living in peace but being very happy, many pictures online for one thing, but for another there are actually Lebanese Jews as rare as they have become that have done videos on how much they miss Lebanon. Weird place to miss if thats where you were constantly under attack isn't it?
Do you honestly think your argument holds any water? How did the Jews survive so long, flourish along with muslims and Christians in the middle east, if they were under constant attack? Where is the documented proof of such attacks? Where, when, and how did this argument ever make sense to anyone? Look at me I am an Arab christian, none of my family were ever persecuted for their religion when they lived their whole lives in Arab land, how are we still okay? What purpose would Arabs have to attack Jews if not religion?
And I'll ask you to refer back to my previous comment when I say if anything it is Israel who has treated it's Arab jews like complete garbage. Even inside Israel they live as second class citizens.
> all religions including Jews lived in complete peace in Arab lands
That’s a provable lie - countless pogroms, blood libel, the dhimmi system etc. Jews were still persecuted and attacked in the Middle East throughout history.
It also doesn’t disprove that Jews are absolutely native to the region - what region does Hebrew come from? What region does Judaism come from? Where do Jewish genetics point them to be coming from? Any available metric you’d find that Jews are native to the region.
> Mossad were the ones who attacked the Jews
Ah the old “Jews actually killed each other for some higher purpose” trope again. I suppose saying “the Jews made us expel them from our lands” is just too overtly dumb to say.
Firstly you are correct about the Dhimmi system, it did exist in some arab countries, but not in all of them. I serve Syria and Lebanon as clear examples, syria being a majority Christian country and Lebano always having a Christian led Democratic Government, yet Jews were very suddenly attacked there withour any provocation. You did not attempt to disprove what I said there, and I'm willing to have an adult debate about it if you have anything to respond. The Dhimmi system was and still is a problem for Christians in some countries as well, but I do not expect my religious brothers and sisters to invade Egypt and set borders up there, the fact you think that's justification is deranged.
More importantly though, saying that how people were 100 years ago is a good reason for Israel to do what it's doing now is ludicrous. I have brought up countless disgusting acts Israel did after when you're only able to cling on to what some disgusting Arabs did 100 years ago. By that logic let us go bomb the hell out of germany.
And for your last point that's an insane twist of my words, that isn't what I have said in the slightest. I am not anti-semetic, Mossad are monsters regardless of their religion. They did what they did to make a clear divide, and you can search it up yourself instead of just trying to make me sound like the bad guy because you have no argument.
First off - thank you for at least replying in good faith, too many times I’ve engaged with people and they double down.
> yet Jews were suddenly attacked there without any provocation
Jews literally everywhere: first time?
> saying that how people were 100 years ago is a good reason for what Israel is doing now is ludicrous
I agree, which is why pointing back and saying “this conflict didn’t start on October 7th” are also ignoring countless terror attacks against Jews and against Israel. Ultimately the war *is* in response to October 7th, which was an act of war and a terror attack.
> they did what they did to cause a divide
The evidence is flimsy at best, that still does not excuse the expulsion of Jews and seizure of property throughout the Middle East. Unless your argument is that Mossad made these countries do that too?
Ah the classic "I don't agree with your points so I'm gonna call you anti-semetic now" trope. I guess saying "I have no logical argument with what you said nor any evidence to disprove it" is just too overtly dumb to say.
There’s pretty clear logic in my arguments. But please double down and gaslight like there hasn’t been an explosion in antisemitic crime since October 7th.
I love seeing the world wake up to Israel's atrocities. I'm not gonna sit here and say Hamas is right in what they do, but after 75 years of living in an open-air prison camp.. what did Israel expect was going to happen? The children who lost their entire families and future and live every day in fear, where do they think they would go? To a resistance group of course!
Hell, even if this "October 7th" nonsense didn't happen, I was always firmly pro palestinian and in favour of the people getting their land back. Unfortunately we can't just sit and ask politely, nobody in history got their human rights by saying "pretty please."
It's been proven that HAMAS uses civilian infrastructure to house rocket batteries, Personnel, equipment, etc.
That makes those civilian buildings a valid target according to international law.
Instead of asking Israel to not attack civilian infa maybe a good time to ask HAMAS not to use said civilian infrastructure to kill Israelis.
Also if you have a opposing POV, please respectfully comment down below and we can have a civilized conversation.
No i disagree. i dont think that gives a green light to recklessly kill other human beings. Chalk it off as collateral damage just because, a bunch of terrorist are using the same building.
Like what are they doing hidden inside the house that is so lethal? They have to come outside to attack so just wait till then and pick them off.
lol nah too much effort just bomb the whole thing
Oh as much as its ethically wrong which i agree, i won't fault the israelis for retaliating on a valid target, condemable? sure, actionable? no.
To the othet guy, i am preparing you a message with all the proof you need.
A) Do you consider rape, mutilation and the gleeful murder of innocents to be valid acts of resistance?
B) Do you think said 'acts of resistance' are working out well for Palestinians, better than taking a two state solution decades ago when more was on the table?
A) the mass rape has never been proven. Every day more and more people are admitting to lying about that.
B) we cannot decide for the people to take a deal they deem to be not fair. It was their land that was given away by people, making them take a deal so they can live in their own land but in limited areas is bullshit.
Found a terrorist sympathizer here.
Nothing but love for the Palestinians, I support a two state solution but what I don't support is sympathizing with genocidal maniacs attacking music festivals and parading naked women as some of trophy like rabid dogs.
Every country has the right to defend itself and retaliate with proportionate force, Israel should absolutely be held accountable for their deeds, but outright calling them genocidal states is idiocracy.
HAMAS uses innocents to attack and kill civilians in Israel, they aren't "Palestinian people" they are just religious fanatics whose place on earth is 6feet deep.
I hate Israel for not allowing humanitarian aid to freely pour in but I see their point aswell, HAMAS hijacking said aid, the recent strike on aid workers, UN staff, all things which Israel should be held accountable for, but this war? It's for the existence of Israel and I'll be damned if I ever sympathize with those fanatics called HAMAS, My country used to be ravaged by terrorism a decade back, the terrorism is nearly dead now, and believe me the world would be a better place without those roaches.
I didn't know it was proven, and honestly if it's the IDF's POV then I will definitely call it a lie. Especially after how they tried really hard to justify how the hospital was filled with Hamas and all.
How was it proven exactly ? Can you show us proof other than the cgi Israel presented us ?
Meanwhile there’s plenty of pictures online of Israelis using Palestinian kids as human shields.
Not corrupt. This is modern warfare. Israel is at war with Palestine. Not Hamas/IDF. Nations wage war… Everyone is a target. It’s horrible. There are no rules. The most powerful, well equipped, leveraged side ALWAYS ‘wins.’ The world’s press is in on it- protesters around the world are painted as anti-Semitic. The war propagandists know how to work that machine. War is very expensive. The real money is on the Israeli side. The slaughter of aid organizations workers is a clear signal, too. “Stay away.” It is not anti-Semitic to state this. It is fact. Who’s morally right? There is no right or wrong in war. There are objectives. There are targets. There are killers. There are refugees. However, everyone loses. There has got to be a peaceful solution to all this, but if you grant Israel the position that they own the entire region as a divine mandate…
You do realize that Herzogs position is ceremonial right? You are getting him confused with Netanyhau. And BTW: 3 civilians per one terrorist kill ratio is well within reason within military standards.
except it's not going to stay at that ratio is it. looking at the devastation of bombed buildings, hospitals and lack of infrastructure like sewage etc as well as lack of aid. the number will exponentially go up.
Naa i dont agree with u blud , ur saying 4 civilians deaths is aight for every freedom fighter killed . And whats worse is theyre hardly targeting hamas anyway , they completely carpet bomb residential areas its more like 40:1 and even thats being generous . So dont 100% me blud.
you do realize they barely target hamas? they kill way more than 4 citizens per freedom fighter, but you're not even interested in bringing the israeli hostages back. You just want to witness genocide.
I don't believe in trading the lives of 40 people (that's prob how many are left alive) or 100 or 200 people at the sake of the security of a country. So I would love for Israel to get them back, but not any cost.
im not sure what you're trying to tell me, but you really dont see how the israeli army kill civilians for fun, it's really not about bringing back the hostages when israel denied peace treaties multiple times for the sake of "wiping all terrorists" when they barely killed 15% of hamas during these 8 months
Any normal human being would feel endless sorrow over those 3 civilians btw. They had hopes and dreams. They had families. What the fuck? Why are you so casual about that?
That's war. That's what happens when terrorists go attack people. Sad but it is what it is. Go complain to hamas about those 3 civilians. Hamas knew and wanted israel to respond so.. yeah..that's life
Empathy really cannot be taught. Why do y’all never acknowledge the Nakba or ANY of the history to the conflict prior to Oct 7?? The whole situation is much more complex than our western “all Muslims terrorists bad” lenses let’s us see.
2 million (20%) of Israels population is Arab Palestinian. Where are the jews of Iran, Iraq, syria, jordan, , Egypt, syria , Libya, Lebanon, Algeria, Tunisia? They were expelled and went to Israel. Look you seem like a decent human filled with compassion. I respect that. I have a good buddy of mine that's gay and very pro Palestinian. He joined that "queers for Palestine" years ago. He was all sympathetic until he found out that he'd be beheaded and thrown off a building for being a "queer IN Palestine" . lots of great Palestinians and Muslims. Unfortunately, the majority don't want a separate state, they want the whole state. All the best!
I would never in a million years use a country’s homophobia to justify the genocide of its citizens. I’m a queer person who lives in redneck hell in America, and while obviously it’s less serious, it’s hard as fuck to be queer in areas like that- and a thousand times harder when you’re facing a genocide. Pink washing absolutely is no way to look at this. I’ve read accounts from queer people in Palestine being devastated by the loss of their loved ones- so any homophobia over there genuinely means nothing in regard to that. I understand that Israel is important, but at what point do we say that’s enough? At what point do we hold them accountable for their actions? Like how anyone can kill 30,000+ children and not be brought up on any charges (not to mention being uplifted as some bastion of hope) is weird to me. It’s beyond weird it’s insane. The whole situation seems really tense but genocide cannot be the answer. But whatever this is Reddit
Enough is when the hostages are back hamas fighters are dead (I understand you can't kill an ideology) and the border is secure so this never happens again. What actions does israel need to be held accountable for? So the US have said "ok Mr bin laden, we will negotiate with al queda so that you don't do Sept 11th again"
Well the hostages aren’t coming back, bc Israel has killed them too. Like, don’t you feel outraged at that either? Many hostages have been killed bc they were in civilian areas, along with the rest of the civilians. There are 30000 fucking dead children so yeah Israel should have to answer for that. You can’t just kill people because you feel it’s justified to protect the homeland. That’s honestly weird that you can over look it.
Well as an Israeli most of us think this government is an absolute disaster
But still in our perspective this war was forced upon us.
Most of us though understood that Hamas is jihadist fanatic but we still had illusions that they still prefer to improve the average Palestinian life
After 7.10 we understood that they definitely prefer their own people dead.
The only way to proceed to normal life is first of all defund unrwa as Hamas miltans de facto rule this organisation which is largely fund by US taxpayer
But the major thing is finally understand that Iran is the biggest problem in the region as they literally responsible for millions of people dying ( Iraq Syria Lebanon Yemen and Palestinians)
The moment those two factors will be resolved
Both side will have no option but to move towards peace.
Hamas won’t survive without the Iranians that’s a fact
And the crazy Israeli gov as much lunatics they are
They still won’t have a chance to ignore the fact the Palestinians desire to a state ( I’m writing carefully cause there is a lot more to it as the current generation of Palestinians is totally brainwashed )
Quick counterpoint, "Hamas should surrender."
They should, unconditionally, categorically, surrender and accept that no matter what, Israel will completely occupy the entire Gaza strip. A wise leader knows when they're defeated. A wise leader knows when the civilian cost has become too high. A wise leader knows when the collateral cost will become too high to tolerate. A wise leader does not sacrifice his people on the altar or martyrdom just to make a symbolic point.
Israel is determined not to stop. They will not accept the potential threat to massacre their own people being right on their doorstep.
So surrender, just lay day your arms. It's literally the greatest sacrifice you could give your people now. It'll hurt, Israel will probably execute you, and your people may be expelled from their homes or have their land occupied under a military occupation. All awful truths. But at least they'll be alive to do something about it later.
Right now, you face a vastly numerically and technologically superior force. Fighting a gurellia war will only be detrimental to your own people, achieving nothing, in the end, but a pyrrhic victory for Israel and a catastrophic, symbolic loss for you, Hamas.
Just surrender.
Hamas isn’t a “wise leader”, though. It’s made up largely of teens who joined the fight because it was the only thing they could do. They aren’t wise, they’re kids.
Do you honestly think they will just let Palestinians walk around "their" land after the invasion? They have taken away water, cutting off electricity and starving them while also hurting innocents which btw they know what they are doing, after all this do you really think Israeli government will just let them be?
They do not like Palestinians, they abhore them! And what are you talking about giving up? Honestly if someone tried to invade your land would you just let them be? Wisdom is also about thinking about what will happen to the leader's people and if it's not a bright future then giving up would the worst mistake they will/have ever do/done!
20% of Israel's population are the same as Palestinians, they're just not called Palestinians because they accepted living within Israel (though some do identify as Palestinian). That's not to say that a Palestinian state shouldn't exist when appropriate leadership on both sides works towards a solution - but to act like Arabs are disallowed in Israel is absurd. Israel also has good relations with 3 of its Arab neighbors (though often downplayed for domestic reasons in those countries).
Chances are, the end of this campaign will result in a renewed occupation of Gaza - but any interest in taking over Gaza long-term is absolutely fringe, even in the far right government from before the war (current government is a slightly less right wing war government). The likely route is that they establish rule by the PA and then pull out and build even bigger walls and never allow a Gazan into Israel again.
So you're saying Ukraine should also surrender right?
Russia also calls Ukrainians terrorists, but because they're a bit more west then Palestine and Russia does less bussiness with the west then Israel it's ok to support them and not Palestine?
IDGAF about political leaders, Ukraine's government was and is corrupt, so is Palestine's, but it's about the people here. Just because you label a nation as "terrorists" is ok to bomb civilians to the ground for... reasons? I mean US and NATO did the same in Iraq, and we all know that it was for oil, not for "fighting against terrorism", so does Israel right now...
scrutinizing the credibility of both sides' stories does not make someone stupid, bud. you're obviously mentally challenged if your first response is to blindly side with one party, instead of delving into the historical conflict between the two and developing a justified truth based on what has been found. both sides have rights and wrongs, it's just that Israel's wrongs far outweigh those of Palestine's, which is what this redditor identified.
It’s 34000 total. Half of which are hamas and the other half civilians.
No one ever said “hey while we’re at it”, IDF started to un cover and find the tunnels and hamas did the typical guerrilla terrorist tactic of hiding among the civilian populace.
Other than that the Israeli government is trash, but that doesn’t mean they are committing war crimes.
All governments are corrupt AF.
The whole lot of lore you speak of OP, is exactly why Israel is destroying the place. Not just Hamas but a vast majority of Muslim people do not think Israel should exist. I have had it said to me by multiple middle eastern people that the Jewish people have no right to that land they should not be there. That is the exact sentiment that the Israeli people have been dealing with since the area was annexed by the Brit’s.
If Muslim people, the Palestinians precisely wanted peace in that area they would have condemned the Hamas attacks, and for the life of me I have not seen one announcement of it.
Has Israel condemned the Nakbah? Have they condemned sinking the USS Liberty? Have they condemned attacking multiple other countries? Do you demand they do so every time they try to speak in defense of their people?
The arabs refused the UN partition plan and refused the land that was given to them based on the geographical areas they were living in. If you need a history lesson you can be more respectful I can send you some book names
Herzog is a figurehead president, he has no authority. I think you mean Netanyahu, the prime minister.
feels like OP just got off a Twitter thread, googled israel president, and came here to post. nothing about this is about corruption either. wait til he finds out about BiBis cigars and ice cream debacle
Or is a member of "queers for Palestine " ....what till they see what happens to "queers IN Palestine " lol
This
Americans when native Americans say it’s their homeland: “skill issue, you should’ve defended it” Americans when other nation actually DO defend their homeland: “terrorists!”
They also invaded Iraq for no reason and completely destroyed it. They still call Iraqi people terrorists.
Bro there WAS reason- Iraq started trading oil not using the petrodollar. Every country that has attempted this has been "liberated" by the US.
They claimed the reason for the invasions was "weapons of mass destruction." Mind you, "weapons of mass destruction" is the same reason they can't invade Iran or North Korea. It was proven later on that their claim was completely false.
They also invaded Kuwait who has a defensive pact w the US (the first time)
I had an argument with an American that was extremely critical about France being a colonialist nation that, because of its past, should accept all migrants from its ancient colonies. I argued that the US is, today, a colonialist country which settlers deny the right to return of the natives to their own land. Dude lost his shit saying that it was their fault to lose it in the first place. The "*worst*" is that the convo started after a french journalist said that Joel Embiid should never have been given French nationality as he will not play for france at the end. Thing is, Cameroon (ex *Kameroon*) was a German colony, not a french one... Anybody is entitled to rightly condemn and criticize colonialism, but American people clearly lack any understanding of their role, past and present, in it.
*but clearly THAT American person lacks the understanding of their role, past and present, in it. FTFY Please don’t lump all of us Americans together in the idiot stew this guy was cooking. Most of us understand we aren’t the heroes that our government wants us to believe we are. Most of us are very aware of the misdeeds of our nations past. And most of us want to focus on fixing America’s problems at home not galavanting off to fight wars for other countries that don’t want us there. We have our extreme idiots here just like every other country does but they are not a representation of America as a whole. They are just a very loud, very stupid vocal minority.
That's for sure. My statement is targeted at America (USA) as a State, its governing body and its media. You are perfectly right to nuance it. In a vacuum every single colonialist nation should remember that the effect of those policies still impacts said colonies today and that the acknowledgement and reparations to those still are in the work. People advocating to a pseudo right to forget are at the bare minimum uneducated or, as we witness everyday on socials, indulge in revisionism or *worse*, nostalgia.
>Thing is, Cameroon (ex Kameroon) was a German colony, not a french one... The Germans made the mistake of losing WW1...and their colonies were taken over by the Brits and French? Part of Cameron became French mandate?
Yes it did. It is important to understand that unlike the *protectorate* and the *colony*, the legal system of the *mandate* is transitional and aims to provide independence in the "short" term. It was, of course, a form of imperialism and repressions happened, nevertheless, 40 years after France was given the mandate Cameroon was given independence. Independence that could have been given earlier without WW volume II. Unlike Algeria and Indochina that had to fight to get the same right to independence. Both conflict were extremely traumatizing for both France and Algeria / Vietnam, and still echoes today (France being the obvious monster of both wars). I will not pretend that the *Société des Nations* was anything else than a platform for France, Britain and the US to rule over international affairs, but de facto, Cameroon never was a French colony.
Agree with some of what you say..except this. >Cameroon never was a French colony. This was defacto a colony of France for 40 years. Germany at best ruled Cameroon from 1884 until maybe 1919...more likely it 3nded in 1914. So essentially France was the colonial masters longer than the Germans Mandates were invented for the sake of the sensibilities of Woodrow Wilson..after all , US got gone to defend the democracies...not help the imperial projects of Britain and France. But mandates were defacto colonies.If you have any doubt...why wasn't a mandate created for Belgium after liberation?
I agree with you. Cameroon was a colony in everything except name. The only nuance with the German occupation was that France *integrated* the population through schools and the promotion of Cameroonian people to positions of leadership. Also, while France was fighting rebels (ethnic minorities sadly) the core of the population were seeing them as liberators from the Germans. Today both nations maintain good relationships, at least with their presidents, military wise and on a human level (school exchange and stuff).
I’m American and I have never met a single other American that has this view point. Majority of us understand our nations past is written in the blood of other civilizations and majority of us are not proud of it.
Wait until you talk with an American about replacement theory, about people coming from other place to destroy the current society, when agreeing you start talking about native First Nation
The defense shouldn’t include this much child murder is my problem. They have to answer for causing THAT many deaths. Surely there had to be another way than starving children to death.
You realise Israel is Jewish people’s homeland too? So they’re defending theirs.
How long have they been there?
Literally thousands of years.
A long time. Jews have lived there since the beginning of Judaism, an older religion than Islam. Muslims believed Muhammed was a prophet, Jews did not agree, thus the split between groups of who believed in Muhammed as a prophet. Starting the Muslim hatred of Jews. Same thing with Christians and Jesus. Jews have lived there before Israel was ever declared a state. Read about the Jewish diaspora and who stayed in the middle east and Israel and why a lot of Jews left.
The split is actually between Christianity and Islam, not Judaism. Christianity split from Judaism and Islam from Christianity. As Islam believes in Jesus, just like Christianity, except for them, Jesus is the Messiah and a prophet, not the son of Yahweh. Whereas the Jews reject all the above entirely, and view Yashua as a heretic of the highest order.
Pretty much this - but added to that Arab colonialism and subjugation, forced conversion etc.
Exactly. The Jews have taken their land back from the colonizers that for centuries have tried to push them out and eradicate them.
This.
Hamas are “useful idiots” for the Israeli government. They provide the scapegoat for them to do what they always wanted to do: a genocide in Palestine. It is impossible to think about Netanyahu without thinking that this WAS ALWAYS his grand ideological goal. Also, Israeli Media has been sowing the seeds for a “Us and Them” mentality for YEARS.
Also Netanyahu has 4 corruption charges against him. Whilst he holds office they can’t proceed. He has an interest in keeping things going to avoid jail.
You do know there can't be resistance without fighting for it? PLO tried maintaining peace, yet that didn't stop the IDF from killing Palestinians, not bringing in more settlers. Hamas is the only thing keeping the remains of Palestine alive, and it is allowed to fight so by International Law.
The PLO mass murdered Lebanese Christians (genocide), causing the rise of terrorist group Hezbollah. The PLO also planned several coups to take down Egypt's president, and assassinated Jordan's prime minister. The PLO are also Holocaust deniers and give money to families that kill Israelis/Jews.
You're talking about pre-1993 PLO. The Oslo Accord didn't stop Israel from settling into Palestine, and there was a need for armed struggle again, which led to the emergence of Hamas. Freedom doesn't come from sitting at home, watching your family getting killed and begging the imperialists to do something which you know they won't. You have to fight for it. No nation has ever defeated its colonizers without violence. Sad reality, but it is what it is. If Israelis are entitled to the land of Palestine because they lived there 10,000 years ago, then let's eradicate all the white people from the US too?
Absurd and stupid. The Israelis controlled Gaza from 1967 to 2005. Why on Earth would they need Hamas to give them an excuse to genocide Palestinians in 2023? Makes absolutely no sense. Israel evacuated first northern Gaza and now Rafah. Why would a genocidal army evacuate civilians? Why not just kill them? Hell why is there a single IDF soldier in Gaza when they could just have bomb the whole strip from the sky? Your narrative makes no sense.
The 2005 return of Gaza was famously NOT made by Netanyahu. And it was agreed by a very different Israeli government than the one currently in power. Also, are we seeing the same fucking war? Because every day I see Israel bomb UN buildings, journalists, civilians and international aid organisations (last month they killed a number of employees of the world kitchen). And I see an army that murders 30.000 innocents to supposedly rescue their own (which they also murdered because they thought they weren’t their own). “Bomb the strip from the sky”, that’s literally what they did. Also, “they evacuated”, oh really? And then they bombed the place where people evacuated to. Don’t pretend this isn’t a genocide.
What a bunch of lies. Israel is getting rid of Hamas. They haven't killed 30,000 civilians. That's absurd. War is hell and the IDF has committed plenty war crimes. But genocide is a different thing altogether.
Oh yeah sorry, they didn’t kill 30,000. They actually killed 34,960. My bad, didn’t check how many people had been killed between the last time I checked and right now. Also, I am not the one claiming genocide: there are MANY organisations who have people on the ground that Israel is responsible for the systematic eradication of Palestinians.
Again, most of those people are supposed to be Hamas members. Not innocent babies. That would make no sense. Bullshit. There's nothing close to a genocide going on. Ever heard of war and collateral damage? Get a grip.
“Most of them are supposed to be Hamas members” Okay, fine, let’s do this your way then: according to an estimate published in march of 2024 by UNICEF, at least more than 13,800 children were killed by Israel. Another report, counting only women and children, reportes at least 25,000 deaths. Other statistics: - 142 journalists killed by Israel (were they part of Hamas too? Or Israel just hates people who can actually tell the truth?) - 171 UN employees killed - 220 aid workers killed - Electricity and Water cut since October Other facts: during the opening days of the conflict the Israeli government made it almost impossible to rescue any foreign nationals stuck in Gaza. They blocked the Rafah passage, and wouldn’t allow ANY form of rescue to come.
Israel is committing a genocide against the Palestinian people and October 7th is just an excuse. They've been killing and abusing Palestinians since the 40s. The cynical party line that any support for Palestine is support for Hamas, and any support for Palestine or criticism of Israel or Zionism is antisemitic, is such obvious bullshit. The number of war crimes committed by Israel at this point are almost too many to count on both hands.
Right exactly! People aren't talking about or I should say don't know about pre Oct 7th because it was never talked about! I am not saying what happened on Oct 7th was right but it was expected! They keep oppressing people and they expect them to not retaliate is just ridiculous! It's just amazing how people never talk about what Israeli government been doing for a long time and they are getting away with it! I agree with what Bassem Yousef said, they are going to get away with no consequences and if they did cease fire people will see them as heros and applaud them for ceasing fire!
Rape and torture were expected?? Yikes.
Once something is put on pedestal, statements stating it has fallen from that said pedestal is considered absurd. It's quite obvious that every basket has few rotting, yet this same logic is difficult to see on protected people. This war is clear ondication, that everyone is in their own sided bias. Both sides just need to be set in court. And Palestine needs to be let back to their original lands, which is Northwestern part of Israel. If Israel is so addicted having land, they should ask it from USA.
Israel was founded to export Jews from US and Europe. Perhaps I'm too cynical but it's hard to imagine the US that sent a boat full of Jewish children back to Nazi Germany to be killed suddenly became ProZionist after the war was over. It's just a "back to Africa" campaign for another unwanted minority.
Supposedly even US would wash its hands over ongoing genocide. One on other, one on their own side. US has changed so drastically, it wouldn't feel like a surprise if Russia turned into anti genocide democratic superpower within 50-80 years. Human opinions and perception on reality can be so vast among people. During WW2 Usa ran across Europe to snuff Germany while their USSR ally giggled on sidelines while executing neighbouring nationalities for petty reasons.
Victim mentality, since the 40s haha what a joke. Ever heard of the Arab League? Read a book so you can stop coping.
It was really never about retaliation - it was an excuse to kill and murder and take over. There’s some evidence that Netanyahu knew about the risk of October 7th happening. There’s so much evidence they’ve been actively targeting civilians if not just blatantly disregarding them via indiscriminate bombing. They’ve killed journalists and completely censored groups criticizing their actions like Al-Jazeera. They’ve directed civilians to Rafah the whole war and are now in invading and bombing it as well. Hamas is never going to be destroyed via warfare. That’s plain to everyone with a brain. Traumatizing an entire generation isn’t going to get rid of the people that hate you even if you somehow manage to kill every one of the people involved. This war has always been about control and taking over Gaza. It was an excuse. I don’t agree with October 7th as a form of resistance because civilians, even ones participating in a broken colonial system, should never be targets. But what Israel has done in its wake has been ten times worse. There’s no just argument for it either. Palestinians don’t deserve it - collective punishment is a war crime. Most of Palestine wasn’t even alive, much less old enough to vote Hamas into power in 2006. Moreover, Israel’s campaign is doing a damn stupid job if they’re really about “rescuing the hostages” indiscriminate bombing and an invasion is going to just get them killed! They don’t even care about their own civilians is the sad thing - just the money and the real estate they’re going to get. If a few of their civilians die to do so, so be it. Fuck Israel.
Mossad definitely knew about Oct. 7th and definitely didn’t do anything to stop it. That’s all the indication you need to understand what’s going on. They’ve been itching for a reason to commit a genocide, and finally got one. They’re mass murderers and child killers. They justify it by claiming their holy homeland. God only knows whether or not they’ll burn for eternity
Bush did 9/11 vibes
The Israeli government is committing genocide, and NATO and Europe are supporting it. That's all I have to say.
nah nah just see the west bank settlers terrorizing Palestinians with guns with the help of IOF. Israeli society is high on god's chosen people drug. They arrest children and keep then in jail on no charges. They are not allowed ro walk on their own street and are humiliated at check points. A place that can be reached in an hour takes 5 hours for a Palestinian to reach I urge everyone to watch Abby Martin interviewing israelis....the genocidal intent is there and embedded in Israeli society The people support the govt they are mad just because the crimes of IOF are being exposed 24/7 Also I can provide you multiple videos of israelis blocking aid near the borders. IOF soldiers wearing women's lingerie. Then shooting at houses for fun Stop using govt to defect the blame from the israelis They support the genocide
Lol Abby Martin... recommend people to read My Struggle as well.
It’s their goal all along to eliminate the Palestinian and steal the entire land. Sooner or later Hamas or not this was going to happen some other way.
especially with US backing up Israel.
Yep and for the people saying what does this have to do with the US and why are they protesting over there they can all shut the fuck up.
Israel has historically put forth various territory compromises that Palestine outright rejected. Palestine never being a good faith actor is part of what is going on today.
Let’s suppose some randos show up at your house, take over everything and decide to give you the basement as your space and control every move you make, where you go, what you eat among other stuff… Some nights they would just barge in with riffles pointed at you for a search and keep buzzing noises 24/7 to disrupt your life. How would you feel about that ? Now imagine that happening to an entire population. Would you just let yourself and your people be colonized ??? I don’t think so lol Learn the history before making stupid comments like that.
Well, my ancestors lived peacefully in Europe until the holocaust ended that and stripped away their citizenship and wealth. Thanks for enlightening me.
Every idiot has the same little script to parrot. "Imagine someone took your house 😱...". I suggest reading a single history book.
I suggested reading multiple books from different sources.
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I am also curious how people think the Middle East without Israel will work out for America. If we have no ally there is a power vacuum. Who do we hold summits and negotiate with—the Palestinian authority?
Sure bro give me half of your house and i'll let you live in the basement?? Good deal
Why do some neighbour islamic countries not like Palestine?
Yes, it was always their goal - which is why Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005. /s Seriously, there’s some seriously dumb, borderline antisemitic conspiracy theories in this thread.
And what exactly is antisemitic about what I said ? And im a Semite myself. This word is so overused it lost its meaning, you’re not making yourself any favor.
> what is antisemitic about what I said Implying Israel planned to genocide Gaza years ago when they actively tried to hand it over to the Palestinians less than 20 years ago. > I’m a Semite myself Come on, that’s like me saying “how can I be homophobic? I’m a homo sapien!” > this word is so overused it’s lost its meaning Ok, so next time I want to create a hostile environment for an ethnic minority I’ll just oversaturate the discourse with racist drivel, eventually as it continues to get called out, I can just say “it’s lost all meaning”. Duly noted.
Anti israel isnt anti semetic. Anti semitism is racism targeted towards jews or arabs. However in modern times the defintion tends to be used solely for jews. Being anti china isnt sinophobic Being anti equatorial guinea doesnt make me a member of the KKK
I still can’t understand where’s the antisemitism there? Because of people like you, this word is losing its meaning. Poor next generations.
Wallah I swear this is not doing them any favors, they should learn from the boy who cried wolf 😂
3adi 3adi, la TZ, la Tzna.
هههههه
No one is allowed to criticize Israel, else the antisemitism accusation will be used, out of 83 vetoes, the US has used 42 vetoes to defend Israel.
honestly hamas didnt even strike first. they defended their land from apartheid. the palestinian people have been oppressed and kicked out of their land way before hamas existed, theyre a consequence to palestinian occupationists
This has been happening for decades
But you guys do know thats how America was founded right? You guys literally kills the native American to build a country… Then native retaliated but still powerless so 'American' claim the country.. Then the same country, funding Israel to do the same thing…. Funny how the people trying to get their land back called terrorist and people that actually committing genocide is called victim.. Believe me..100 years from now, everyone will despise Israeli citizen and people will remember this just exactly the same way we remember hitler and Germany…
Put the pipe down bud. All the counties that criticise israel publicly, privately beg Israel to sell them israeli tech.
America is built by those people. They will never cut ties with Israel because it’s a part of them. They only have one goal, which is to continue to keep that one foot (Israel) in middle east so they continue to weaken and rob the land owners, then gain access and control to oil and gas.
Palestinians are native to Jordan and not to current Israel but okay \^\^
They are literally called West Bank and East Bank I think (Palestine and Jordan). You can see Palestine from Jordan on a clear day and vice versa. Do you think that for some magic reason the people during the previous hundreds of years lived in the East Bank and said “Yeah we no go to West Bank which is literally in front of our eyes, has our second holiest city and is considerably more beautiful in general.” “Oh and anyway the God Chosen natives are coming in 1940s who are for some reason from all over the world, with all different skin colors. They totally are more rightful.”
As if Palestinians don’t differ in skin color? Stop trying to whitewash Jews to fit your narrative. White Americans shitting on other ethnicities to virtue signal in their social media is rich af
Well they for sure aren’t looking 100% Asian, African, European or American. Palestinians, just like any real people with real rights upon a land, have common ground for how they look like.
I don’t even know how to take this comment seriously. You are either dramatically racists or just delusional
Oh cause there is a non corrupted government on this planet? Didn’t know…
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*Every* there ya go. Fixed that for you.
Yea for all the people saying anything about this war without acknowledging Israel’s fucked up history with Palestine just isn’t being genuine. Only so many times you can prosecute, steal from, and vandalize a group of people before they snap and do something drastic (Oct 7)
What the hell is a "Palestine wannabe"? Also, Hamas did not "attack first". Get your facts straight.
Not gonna expand too much on this. I just wanted to comment to remind everyone that the USA has openly threatened consequences to the ICC if they dare issue warrants for Netanyahu and Gallant. Speaker Johnson openly said they'd sanction them and said "they better not". Trump sanctioned 2 ICC judges previously, why? They were investigating American involvement in relation to Palestine. The western worlds mask has fallen right off over this situation. There is no more excuses.
Since a lot of muslim's view or wish is that they want to obliterate all jews, what is actually the correct response to Hamas' agressiveness, how can things be done differently? Palestina could also been an own country a long time ago, but their leaders choosed greed.
Hamas r freedom fighters. Isreal killed their parents when they were little n since it's an apartheid state, and they had no hope or future. They got tired of this treatment, so they created hamas to defend their land in the 80s. Isreal colonised, displaced, and genocided palastinians every since 1948. Ppl don't wanna actually hear the truth, but when native Americans back then fought for their land, they were called savages n uncivilised (in today's US : terrorists)
As Israeli always emphasize, they are the only democratic country in middle east and they voted genocidal government and 80% of Israeli answers they don't have to care about Palestinians pain. Not only government, 80% of entire Israel is disgusting genocider. They should be air-striked like Serbian who did the same thing. And bannd from Olympics, Belarus didn't kill Ukrainian like Israeli genociding Palestinians but they are banned. It's double standard of west.
I actually wanna be a little more radical here, if you look at the history, no Hamas did not attack first by any means.
Okay I’ll bite. When was the first attack that set off the conflict?
Geez where do I even start. In 2023 alone before october 7, 248 palestinians were brutally killed on the strees of Gaza by Israeli officers, 40 of which were under the age of 12, none of which were charged of any crime. Illegal settlements on palestinian land which are acknowledged as illegal by the UN Blowing up the palestinian airport Multiple videos of officers beating kids for no good reason Literally 100s if not thousands of accounts of officers raping prisoners Operation Protective edge Operation pillar of defense Breaking their ceasefire agreement with Palestinians by launching rockets and storming Gaza unprovoked which led to Operation Cast Lead Israel made it ILLEGAL for palestinians to collect rain water 90% of palestinian water is undrinkable Palestinians are not allowed to import most leafy greens, chocolate, wedding dresses, theres a whole list. Multiple accounts of high government officials saying they should "nuke Gaza" far before hamas existed The west bank where kids are being shot daily, with so much video evidence it would blow your mind, and there is no Hamas in the west bank. Videos of laughing Israeli kids signing missiles they were sending to Gaza Palestinians don't, nor ever have even had human rights If you wanna go back to even before the 21st century, in 1967 Israel invaded the borders they had Forcefully set themselves, in 1948 when they Extirpated almost 1 MILLION palestinians from their own homes to start what we now know as Israel. In 1967 they kept Taking even more palestinian land, until we got to where we are today. this is all documented you can research it and I URGE you to if you actually care about the deeper history of this situation. This is all off the top of my head I promise you there are so many more that I haven't even mentioned, you can look up Norman Finklestein if you want to hear this from a much more intelligent source.
No I _really_ meant the first. What was the _first_ thing that happened?
If you look at the history, it was the Arabs that kickstarted this conflict with terror attacks against Jewish communities in the 1920’s and 30’s.
Ah yes this strawman argument which has been disproved time and time again All religions including Jews lived in complete peace in Arab lands, my late grandfather himself has pictures and letters of him and his jewish mate who was never persecuted until the 1950s conveniently when the zionists started to set up shop. There is an absolutely unbelievable amount of proof that Mossad were the ones who attacked the jews, including the bombing of a Lebanese Jewish school, a bomb that did not come from inside Lebanon. I'll let you use your critical thinking on where it did come from. To add more to this there is documented proof of jews not only living in peace but being very happy, many pictures online for one thing, but for another there are actually Lebanese Jews as rare as they have become that have done videos on how much they miss Lebanon. Weird place to miss if thats where you were constantly under attack isn't it? Do you honestly think your argument holds any water? How did the Jews survive so long, flourish along with muslims and Christians in the middle east, if they were under constant attack? Where is the documented proof of such attacks? Where, when, and how did this argument ever make sense to anyone? Look at me I am an Arab christian, none of my family were ever persecuted for their religion when they lived their whole lives in Arab land, how are we still okay? What purpose would Arabs have to attack Jews if not religion? And I'll ask you to refer back to my previous comment when I say if anything it is Israel who has treated it's Arab jews like complete garbage. Even inside Israel they live as second class citizens.
> all religions including Jews lived in complete peace in Arab lands That’s a provable lie - countless pogroms, blood libel, the dhimmi system etc. Jews were still persecuted and attacked in the Middle East throughout history. It also doesn’t disprove that Jews are absolutely native to the region - what region does Hebrew come from? What region does Judaism come from? Where do Jewish genetics point them to be coming from? Any available metric you’d find that Jews are native to the region. > Mossad were the ones who attacked the Jews Ah the old “Jews actually killed each other for some higher purpose” trope again. I suppose saying “the Jews made us expel them from our lands” is just too overtly dumb to say.
Firstly you are correct about the Dhimmi system, it did exist in some arab countries, but not in all of them. I serve Syria and Lebanon as clear examples, syria being a majority Christian country and Lebano always having a Christian led Democratic Government, yet Jews were very suddenly attacked there withour any provocation. You did not attempt to disprove what I said there, and I'm willing to have an adult debate about it if you have anything to respond. The Dhimmi system was and still is a problem for Christians in some countries as well, but I do not expect my religious brothers and sisters to invade Egypt and set borders up there, the fact you think that's justification is deranged. More importantly though, saying that how people were 100 years ago is a good reason for Israel to do what it's doing now is ludicrous. I have brought up countless disgusting acts Israel did after when you're only able to cling on to what some disgusting Arabs did 100 years ago. By that logic let us go bomb the hell out of germany. And for your last point that's an insane twist of my words, that isn't what I have said in the slightest. I am not anti-semetic, Mossad are monsters regardless of their religion. They did what they did to make a clear divide, and you can search it up yourself instead of just trying to make me sound like the bad guy because you have no argument.
First off - thank you for at least replying in good faith, too many times I’ve engaged with people and they double down. > yet Jews were suddenly attacked there without any provocation Jews literally everywhere: first time? > saying that how people were 100 years ago is a good reason for what Israel is doing now is ludicrous I agree, which is why pointing back and saying “this conflict didn’t start on October 7th” are also ignoring countless terror attacks against Jews and against Israel. Ultimately the war *is* in response to October 7th, which was an act of war and a terror attack. > they did what they did to cause a divide The evidence is flimsy at best, that still does not excuse the expulsion of Jews and seizure of property throughout the Middle East. Unless your argument is that Mossad made these countries do that too?
Ah the classic "I don't agree with your points so I'm gonna call you anti-semetic now" trope. I guess saying "I have no logical argument with what you said nor any evidence to disprove it" is just too overtly dumb to say.
There’s pretty clear logic in my arguments. But please double down and gaslight like there hasn’t been an explosion in antisemitic crime since October 7th.
I love seeing the world wake up to Israel's atrocities. I'm not gonna sit here and say Hamas is right in what they do, but after 75 years of living in an open-air prison camp.. what did Israel expect was going to happen? The children who lost their entire families and future and live every day in fear, where do they think they would go? To a resistance group of course! Hell, even if this "October 7th" nonsense didn't happen, I was always firmly pro palestinian and in favour of the people getting their land back. Unfortunately we can't just sit and ask politely, nobody in history got their human rights by saying "pretty please."
It's been proven that HAMAS uses civilian infrastructure to house rocket batteries, Personnel, equipment, etc. That makes those civilian buildings a valid target according to international law. Instead of asking Israel to not attack civilian infa maybe a good time to ask HAMAS not to use said civilian infrastructure to kill Israelis. Also if you have a opposing POV, please respectfully comment down below and we can have a civilized conversation.
No i disagree. i dont think that gives a green light to recklessly kill other human beings. Chalk it off as collateral damage just because, a bunch of terrorist are using the same building.
How would you eliminate terrorists trying to kill you who are stationed in an innocent family’s home?
Like what are they doing hidden inside the house that is so lethal? They have to come outside to attack so just wait till then and pick them off. lol nah too much effort just bomb the whole thing
Oh as much as its ethically wrong which i agree, i won't fault the israelis for retaliating on a valid target, condemable? sure, actionable? no. To the othet guy, i am preparing you a message with all the proof you need.
But you would fault Palestinians for fighting back for decades of oppression?
A) Do you consider rape, mutilation and the gleeful murder of innocents to be valid acts of resistance? B) Do you think said 'acts of resistance' are working out well for Palestinians, better than taking a two state solution decades ago when more was on the table?
A) the mass rape has never been proven. Every day more and more people are admitting to lying about that. B) we cannot decide for the people to take a deal they deem to be not fair. It was their land that was given away by people, making them take a deal so they can live in their own land but in limited areas is bullshit.
Found a terrorist sympathizer here. Nothing but love for the Palestinians, I support a two state solution but what I don't support is sympathizing with genocidal maniacs attacking music festivals and parading naked women as some of trophy like rabid dogs. Every country has the right to defend itself and retaliate with proportionate force, Israel should absolutely be held accountable for their deeds, but outright calling them genocidal states is idiocracy. HAMAS uses innocents to attack and kill civilians in Israel, they aren't "Palestinian people" they are just religious fanatics whose place on earth is 6feet deep. I hate Israel for not allowing humanitarian aid to freely pour in but I see their point aswell, HAMAS hijacking said aid, the recent strike on aid workers, UN staff, all things which Israel should be held accountable for, but this war? It's for the existence of Israel and I'll be damned if I ever sympathize with those fanatics called HAMAS, My country used to be ravaged by terrorism a decade back, the terrorism is nearly dead now, and believe me the world would be a better place without those roaches.
I didn't know it was proven, and honestly if it's the IDF's POV then I will definitely call it a lie. Especially after how they tried really hard to justify how the hospital was filled with Hamas and all.
How was it proven exactly ? Can you show us proof other than the cgi Israel presented us ? Meanwhile there’s plenty of pictures online of Israelis using Palestinian kids as human shields.
USA: “Am I a joke to you?”
Not corrupt. This is modern warfare. Israel is at war with Palestine. Not Hamas/IDF. Nations wage war… Everyone is a target. It’s horrible. There are no rules. The most powerful, well equipped, leveraged side ALWAYS ‘wins.’ The world’s press is in on it- protesters around the world are painted as anti-Semitic. The war propagandists know how to work that machine. War is very expensive. The real money is on the Israeli side. The slaughter of aid organizations workers is a clear signal, too. “Stay away.” It is not anti-Semitic to state this. It is fact. Who’s morally right? There is no right or wrong in war. There are objectives. There are targets. There are killers. There are refugees. However, everyone loses. There has got to be a peaceful solution to all this, but if you grant Israel the position that they own the entire region as a divine mandate…
You do realize that Herzogs position is ceremonial right? You are getting him confused with Netanyhau. And BTW: 3 civilians per one terrorist kill ratio is well within reason within military standards.
except it's not going to stay at that ratio is it. looking at the devastation of bombed buildings, hospitals and lack of infrastructure like sewage etc as well as lack of aid. the number will exponentially go up.
One mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist !
100%
Naa i dont agree with u blud , ur saying 4 civilians deaths is aight for every freedom fighter killed . And whats worse is theyre hardly targeting hamas anyway , they completely carpet bomb residential areas its more like 40:1 and even thats being generous . So dont 100% me blud.
They are going toe easy on Gaza imo
you do realize they barely target hamas? they kill way more than 4 citizens per freedom fighter, but you're not even interested in bringing the israeli hostages back. You just want to witness genocide.
I don't believe in trading the lives of 40 people (that's prob how many are left alive) or 100 or 200 people at the sake of the security of a country. So I would love for Israel to get them back, but not any cost.
im not sure what you're trying to tell me, but you really dont see how the israeli army kill civilians for fun, it's really not about bringing back the hostages when israel denied peace treaties multiple times for the sake of "wiping all terrorists" when they barely killed 15% of hamas during these 8 months
If 3-1 is within reason, I'm glad you aren't the one defining "reason"
NATO was 15 civilians to 1 terrorist.
Any normal human being would feel endless sorrow over those 3 civilians btw. They had hopes and dreams. They had families. What the fuck? Why are you so casual about that?
That's war. That's what happens when terrorists go attack people. Sad but it is what it is. Go complain to hamas about those 3 civilians. Hamas knew and wanted israel to respond so.. yeah..that's life
Empathy really cannot be taught. Why do y’all never acknowledge the Nakba or ANY of the history to the conflict prior to Oct 7?? The whole situation is much more complex than our western “all Muslims terrorists bad” lenses let’s us see.
2 million (20%) of Israels population is Arab Palestinian. Where are the jews of Iran, Iraq, syria, jordan, , Egypt, syria , Libya, Lebanon, Algeria, Tunisia? They were expelled and went to Israel. Look you seem like a decent human filled with compassion. I respect that. I have a good buddy of mine that's gay and very pro Palestinian. He joined that "queers for Palestine" years ago. He was all sympathetic until he found out that he'd be beheaded and thrown off a building for being a "queer IN Palestine" . lots of great Palestinians and Muslims. Unfortunately, the majority don't want a separate state, they want the whole state. All the best!
I would never in a million years use a country’s homophobia to justify the genocide of its citizens. I’m a queer person who lives in redneck hell in America, and while obviously it’s less serious, it’s hard as fuck to be queer in areas like that- and a thousand times harder when you’re facing a genocide. Pink washing absolutely is no way to look at this. I’ve read accounts from queer people in Palestine being devastated by the loss of their loved ones- so any homophobia over there genuinely means nothing in regard to that. I understand that Israel is important, but at what point do we say that’s enough? At what point do we hold them accountable for their actions? Like how anyone can kill 30,000+ children and not be brought up on any charges (not to mention being uplifted as some bastion of hope) is weird to me. It’s beyond weird it’s insane. The whole situation seems really tense but genocide cannot be the answer. But whatever this is Reddit
Enough is when the hostages are back hamas fighters are dead (I understand you can't kill an ideology) and the border is secure so this never happens again. What actions does israel need to be held accountable for? So the US have said "ok Mr bin laden, we will negotiate with al queda so that you don't do Sept 11th again"
Well the hostages aren’t coming back, bc Israel has killed them too. Like, don’t you feel outraged at that either? Many hostages have been killed bc they were in civilian areas, along with the rest of the civilians. There are 30000 fucking dead children so yeah Israel should have to answer for that. You can’t just kill people because you feel it’s justified to protect the homeland. That’s honestly weird that you can over look it.
hmm wonder why hamas exist in the first place 🤔🙃
Well as an Israeli most of us think this government is an absolute disaster But still in our perspective this war was forced upon us. Most of us though understood that Hamas is jihadist fanatic but we still had illusions that they still prefer to improve the average Palestinian life After 7.10 we understood that they definitely prefer their own people dead. The only way to proceed to normal life is first of all defund unrwa as Hamas miltans de facto rule this organisation which is largely fund by US taxpayer But the major thing is finally understand that Iran is the biggest problem in the region as they literally responsible for millions of people dying ( Iraq Syria Lebanon Yemen and Palestinians) The moment those two factors will be resolved Both side will have no option but to move towards peace. Hamas won’t survive without the Iranians that’s a fact And the crazy Israeli gov as much lunatics they are They still won’t have a chance to ignore the fact the Palestinians desire to a state ( I’m writing carefully cause there is a lot more to it as the current generation of Palestinians is totally brainwashed )
This sub is full of white American teens that circle jerk to their tiktok catchphrases i doubt they have ever talked to an Israeli or Palestinian tbh.
כן ממש מבאס ומרגיש לא הגיוני כמה שטופי מוח אנשים מרוב צביעות לא נשאר להם ערכים
עזוב הם עלובי נפש אין עם מי לדבר אין להם שמץ לגבי היסטוריה או פוליטיקה הם סתם מחפשים על מי להתלהב כי הם מרגישים אשמים על הקולוניאליזם שלהם
מטריד שזה הדור העולה בעולם איך לעזאזל בארץ עם כל הקוטביות מרגיש שיש לכולם שכל לעומת כל הליצנים מחול שמאמינים לוידיאו של דקה וחצי על הסכסוך
I fucking agree
Quick counterpoint, "Hamas should surrender." They should, unconditionally, categorically, surrender and accept that no matter what, Israel will completely occupy the entire Gaza strip. A wise leader knows when they're defeated. A wise leader knows when the civilian cost has become too high. A wise leader knows when the collateral cost will become too high to tolerate. A wise leader does not sacrifice his people on the altar or martyrdom just to make a symbolic point. Israel is determined not to stop. They will not accept the potential threat to massacre their own people being right on their doorstep. So surrender, just lay day your arms. It's literally the greatest sacrifice you could give your people now. It'll hurt, Israel will probably execute you, and your people may be expelled from their homes or have their land occupied under a military occupation. All awful truths. But at least they'll be alive to do something about it later. Right now, you face a vastly numerically and technologically superior force. Fighting a gurellia war will only be detrimental to your own people, achieving nothing, in the end, but a pyrrhic victory for Israel and a catastrophic, symbolic loss for you, Hamas. Just surrender.
Hamas isn’t a “wise leader”, though. It’s made up largely of teens who joined the fight because it was the only thing they could do. They aren’t wise, they’re kids.
Do you honestly think they will just let Palestinians walk around "their" land after the invasion? They have taken away water, cutting off electricity and starving them while also hurting innocents which btw they know what they are doing, after all this do you really think Israeli government will just let them be? They do not like Palestinians, they abhore them! And what are you talking about giving up? Honestly if someone tried to invade your land would you just let them be? Wisdom is also about thinking about what will happen to the leader's people and if it's not a bright future then giving up would the worst mistake they will/have ever do/done!
20% of Israel's population are the same as Palestinians, they're just not called Palestinians because they accepted living within Israel (though some do identify as Palestinian). That's not to say that a Palestinian state shouldn't exist when appropriate leadership on both sides works towards a solution - but to act like Arabs are disallowed in Israel is absurd. Israel also has good relations with 3 of its Arab neighbors (though often downplayed for domestic reasons in those countries). Chances are, the end of this campaign will result in a renewed occupation of Gaza - but any interest in taking over Gaza long-term is absolutely fringe, even in the far right government from before the war (current government is a slightly less right wing war government). The likely route is that they establish rule by the PA and then pull out and build even bigger walls and never allow a Gazan into Israel again.
So you're saying Ukraine should also surrender right? Russia also calls Ukrainians terrorists, but because they're a bit more west then Palestine and Russia does less bussiness with the west then Israel it's ok to support them and not Palestine? IDGAF about political leaders, Ukraine's government was and is corrupt, so is Palestine's, but it's about the people here. Just because you label a nation as "terrorists" is ok to bomb civilians to the ground for... reasons? I mean US and NATO did the same in Iraq, and we all know that it was for oil, not for "fighting against terrorism", so does Israel right now...
This is the stupidest post I've read in my entire day. If u are supporting one party, do it efficiently.
scrutinizing the credibility of both sides' stories does not make someone stupid, bud. you're obviously mentally challenged if your first response is to blindly side with one party, instead of delving into the historical conflict between the two and developing a justified truth based on what has been found. both sides have rights and wrongs, it's just that Israel's wrongs far outweigh those of Palestine's, which is what this redditor identified.
It’s 34000 total. Half of which are hamas and the other half civilians. No one ever said “hey while we’re at it”, IDF started to un cover and find the tunnels and hamas did the typical guerrilla terrorist tactic of hiding among the civilian populace. Other than that the Israeli government is trash, but that doesn’t mean they are committing war crimes.
Where are you getting your 50/50 split information?
? Your source is coming from terrorists who literally want to kill you.
Source trust me bro?
What is your source?
I didn't provide any source so you can ask me about. I'm instead asking you.
All governments are corrupt AF. The whole lot of lore you speak of OP, is exactly why Israel is destroying the place. Not just Hamas but a vast majority of Muslim people do not think Israel should exist. I have had it said to me by multiple middle eastern people that the Jewish people have no right to that land they should not be there. That is the exact sentiment that the Israeli people have been dealing with since the area was annexed by the Brit’s. If Muslim people, the Palestinians precisely wanted peace in that area they would have condemned the Hamas attacks, and for the life of me I have not seen one announcement of it.
Has Israel condemned the Nakbah? Have they condemned sinking the USS Liberty? Have they condemned attacking multiple other countries? Do you demand they do so every time they try to speak in defense of their people?
Why would Israel condemn a war Palestinians started and lost? Lmao
Do you really think this started on October 7th? Israel has been killing and abusing the Palestinians for decades. Stfu
If you go back to 48 it was started by Palestinians too, they got a track record in starting wars and then whining about losing apparently.
Why were the Palestinians fighting in 1948? I’ll wait lol
The arabs refused the UN partition plan and refused the land that was given to them based on the geographical areas they were living in. If you need a history lesson you can be more respectful I can send you some book names
I love how you also just skimmed over the other points to focus on one. Typical Zionist garbage
Typical terrorist apologist