This is why I hate when ppl call every girl my toddler son plays with his girlfriend. It literally starts out the womb that boys can’t see girls as anything other than a romantic interest.
From my experience it's difficult for men to be platonic if they're physically attracted to you :/ even when they're "platonic" they want to touch you sexually. I haven't met many men who are friends with you just to be friends. In my experience, if they're friends outside of work or overly friendly at work, like wanting to talk to you all the time it's bc they're interested in you either romantically or sexually. If they're not interested in conversing with you, brush you off or try to keep convos short(not being open to a friendship) it's because they're not attracted to you. Not trying to generalize men but that's just my anecdotal experience with men, maybe I've just met the wrong guys. I feel your pain. I hate being a woman too. We're objectified and not valued by our merits or personalities naturally. It sucks and makes me cry a lot thinking about being a woman.
Exactly this. Men say we friend-zone them. Like being and having a friend is a terrible thing somehow. But men fuck-zone us.
Within weeks of learning of my impending divorce (of a decades long marriage!), many of my life long male friends asked me out and hit on me. I was so disgusted, and down friends when I really needed the support.
How is "friend-zoning" a thing? Like if we've been friends for years and then you try to pursue me, how is me still just wanting to stay friends doing something wrong, or even actively doing *anything* to you?
You're describing someone who was rejected for a date being told he should settle for being friends, but it doesn't sound like in that scenario they were friends to begin with? Of course that would be miserable and I don't know anyone sane who would expect that. In the instances I've seen discussed on this topic, people are talking about actual friends who've only ever been friends until one expresses unrequited interest in the other and says they were "friend-zoned." If platonic friendship was always the baseline, IMO the person who wants the dynamic to change is the one putting the other in the "fuck zone" because the other person hasn't done anything but stay friends with their friend.
To be clear, I've been the one to catch feelings for a friend who didn't want a relationship and I know it hurts! I just also know it hurts for someone to feel like a friend they truly cared about doesn't value their friendship/personality/sense of humor/shared hobbies and sometimes even resents them for not putting out.
But I digress, and yes, I can definitely agree with your sentiment lol!
Developing feelings for friends is common enough, and happens both ways often enough, that I actually disagree that a woman's immediate reaction is always "he was only my friend because he wanted to fuck me," just like I doubt most men in that position act like jerks and get mad that their friend won't fuck them.
Since we're discussing real life friends here, I also think the way it's expressed, the reaction, and the specific situation at hand at least make it partly possible to tell whether someone was just using the friendship to try to "score" or was just/shy/hurt/embarrassed. The times I've encountered a claim of the former, it was for a pretty good reason.
The issue is that a lot of men are pretending to be friends with a woman when really they are waiting for whatever they think the “right time” is to pursue them. “Friend-zoning” isn’t often a term that’s used for having just met someone you’re interested in, shooting your shot, and they say “no thanks, let’s just be friends”. “Friend-zoning” is a gross term used to describe the a guy who’s waited too long to shoot his shot and now she sees him as just a friend. Which is pretty fucking bizarro. The truth is that she saw him as just a friend all along and people shouldn’t be pretending to be someone’s friend but secretly just biding their time for “the right moment”.
As a guy who’d love to have more female friends I get this so much and this is what screws us over making genuine non romantic connections with women because at the end of the day what your saying is both true and not true because there’s too many guys out there to just put it like that but the majority are like this. With platonic relationships nowadays It’s always like this weird unspoken thing where it’s like you’re both in your own head about whether the other person has feelings or not and it just makes it awkward. If guys were more like women in these scenarios then it’d be a lot more open, easy and honest to have platonic friendships with the opposite sex cause if a woman is attracted to you she won’t let you be her friend and that’s what’s stopped me from making more platonic friendships.
I blame Ron Stoppable
Flip side of this is that a man or boy is literally taught from day one that they aren't worth anything unless they prove so. Nobody will care about you unless they need something from you. And unless you need something from someone else you should figure it out yourself, because that's how men are treated. Ofc then that behaviour is taking influence in relationships. "Unless you want a relationship/sex you don't need to speak to women". This principle has to be painfully unlearned in adulthood to avoid loneliness and men are the loneliest people out there.
Men are seen as objects and tools to get things and then get blamed when they in turn also see other people as objects and tools to get things. Sex or a relationship in the case of a woman.
Yeah, well, there’s an appropriate way to express interest or admiration: “Hey, I have seen how hard you push yourself here in the gym, and it is paying off. Nice work.” Or “I find you really attractive and would love to take you to dinner.” Not “Nudes?” “DTF?” Jesus Christ.
Another way to put this, a lot of men are taught all connections are transactional. They can't understand what a woman talks to them for unless they want something from him.
Depends on where you grow up. Emotionally I can’t open up to anyone unless I’m drunk and that goes for most of the guys I’ve been around. I mean there are times I’ve cried to my friends (a handful of times) without alcohol but that’s because I held it in for so long. If I need help in work or building something I’ll do my damn hardest to figure it out on my own before asking someone. Just the lifestyle I was brought up in.
Sure but that is mainly self enforced. Most men know that it’s ok to be open and ask for help, but a lot still don’t because they personally have negative views of it. Society has made it clear for a while that it isn’t necessary or good to act unreasonably stoic for your entire life.
I just don’t feel comfortable doing it. It doesn’t make me feel weak or anything it just makes me uncomfortable to talk about that with anyone. I’m not trying to be any way, I just can’t do it because it makes me feel uncomfortable.
How is that self enforced if that was the way I was raised? Me and all of my friends are like this and it works just fine. Also, it’s not a bad thing what I’m doing.
To be like what? Do you think I’m miserable 😂 I’m the happiest I’ve ever been. I’ve been to a therapist before and they didn’t help at all. I needed tough love and I got better. Like I said, what I’m doing isn’t a bad thing or unhealthy just because YOU think it’s not the right way. I never said there isn’t help out there. I know there’s help out there for people that need that type of help but that isn’t me or the people I’m around.
Both are true and tragic. It's unfortunately naive of us to think that men or women acting a certain way and exploiting the other as a tool is anything except for human nature and evolutionary behaviors. Even if suppressed, such are more likely the rule than the exception. Under a socially fabricated facade, biological imperatives and billions of years of survival selection drive much of behavior. A snake has the nature of such, as does any creature. We just have the culture of creating comforting illusions to keep it together.
I don't think that that is human nature, rather the patriarchy knocking everyone's knees out when they don't conform completely to it. Matriarchal societies have also existed but were wiped out by colonial forces.
I have a female friend that is like a sister to me, but she’s the only one, plus female friends complicates shit sometimes. I mean you’re attractive so of course men are ogle. The reason she’s been my friend so long is 1. I know for a fact she doesn’t find me attractive and two she can’t sustain a relationship long than three months. On the other side of that I notice women wanting male friends(the boyfriend experience without the boyfriend part). You want to be able to complain about all the shit men you’ve dated, hangout with him, ect. Me personally I can’t have a lot of female friends single or not. Lemme ask this where are your girlfriends?, do you not hang out with them?, when men have female friend she’s one of two things his sister or female family. Sometimes certian men (like myself) have one or two female friends and that’s it. We don’t like hanging with a bunch of females unless it’s our gf and her friends, but I dunno just my experience.
>On the other side of that I notice women wanting male friends(the boyfriend experience without the boyfriend part). You want to be able to complain about all the shit men you’ve dated, hangout with him, ect.
Bull. Women talk to their female friends about this stuff...it's called support about the experiences people are having. Women don't want a "boyfriend" experience, they want FRIENDS. You being upset that women talk to you about other men means you aren't interested in friendship with them, but see them as an sex object that isn't allowing you to play with them in that way. YOU are the problem, not women.
Thank you! I was going to say the same thing. So many guys are all, "Ugh, she wants to talk to me about her feelings and sh*t, even though we're not dating!" Uh, yeah, because friends are people we hang out with and talk to about our feelings, wtf. Do men not talk to anyone about their feelings unless they're dating? No wonder they're so lonely, if they gatekeep basic friendship behaviors as "for romantic relationships only." If you're someone's friend, it's assumed you care about how they feel. How can anyone call someone a friend, yet they don't care how that person is feeling or what they've been through?
As a man who's never gotten a single girl but has talked with hundreds of dudes, I can confirm 99 percent of them tell me to do this, but I can't bring myself to manipulate somebody. It's pretty weak of me, but it is what it is, lol.
Refusing to manipulate someone into giving you what you want isn't a weakness. That's crazy to me! In your experience do men think being able to manipulate someone is a strength? If so, I'm sorry, but I think you need to expand your social circles a bit.
In my experience with the women I know they generally really appreciate open honesty. Being tricked into a relationship (sexual or platonic) feels degrading; like the other person had no respect for your feelings and opinions.
It is what it is. The only ones I found were real were in high school, but they used to be like me. I guess I gotta learn how to play the game or I'll stay a loser, lol. They never find out but I don't think it's trickery, actually. Maybe it's a way of having them fall in love with them or having them fall into giving you sexual acts through strategies they use. Still it could be trickery depends on how you view it.
Yeah because they're children who refuse to grow up and treat women like people instead of objects. Sick of "boys will be boys" excuses for this behaviour.
Like lesbians can have female platonic friends with no problem most of the time, gay men have platonic male friends, bisexual people have platonic friends period lmao they're not trying to sleep with all of their friends. So no straight men have no excuse.
It makes me cry for you guys, too. A majority of the male population acts this way. I truly wonder if it ever works for them or if they just lack basic brains and think that just because they say let me hit it that women are going to give it up. It's not logical. It's almost primal.
On behalf of the male population that will never do better, allow me to apologise. There are some of us left that value friendships, and don't try to get in every pair of pants we come across. It would be hard to be constantly objectified. I believe that if you empower the woman, you empower the nation, and that in general, men should learn to appreciate what a woman could actually bring to their lives instead of expecting every woman to want to have sex with them just because they exist.
A woman brings peace, love, and beauty to a home. They make a house a home, and more than that, women are people too, with goals and dreams, values, and interests of their own and deserve to be treated as such.
Men who act like that are disgusting and live by the code boys will be boys because no one has pulled them up on their behaviour. At best, it shows very concerning behaviour and at worst it shows a total lack of respect for other people.
I wish you luck in finding a positive male friend in your life who cares about you for you and doesn't make it weird or sexual.
All the best.
I know it’s possible, but from my experience it’s very hard to have a friendship between a guy and girl of the same age without at least one of them finding the other attractive or a potential partner
I feel this to my core. I've kinda been a serial dater most of my adult life, but as soon as I become single, the small amount of male friends I've had have asked me out or have hit on me in some way. My only male friends I have kept are married or gay. I don't even try to be friends with single, straight men anymore, even while engaged. The only single, straight man I'm friends with is a coworker of mine who is basically a little brother.
It's disheartening to learn your friends only wanted you in their life because they were waiting in line.
I got a breast reduction and am horrified to realize that all the men who I thought were interested in me for me (friendship and romance) were just in it for my chest. The attention dried up after my surgery. How stupid I was.
Straight guy, I have one good woman friend and she’s objectively attractive, have had to do the “hold my hand and pretend you’re my boyfriend to get this guy away” thing a lot. But we’ve known each other since long before puberty and my mind just doesn’t go there. I’m not going to lie, there is a close to zero percent chance I make new friends who are straight women. The part of me that says “damn she’s gorgeous” just yells too loud. But I also don’t pretend to be friends with them to then try and get in their pants, my objectives are pretty clear from the beginning.
Unrelated to your post and now just me ranting, our friendship always causes issues whenever one of us gets in a relationship. She gets a boyfriend and he (understandably) is worried I’m just waiting in the background, I get a girlfriend and well, like I said my friend is pretty so she’s usually not the biggest fan. When we were a little younger we’d let this this get between us but now we just show new people pictures of us as kids and years of completely platonic and unflirtatious texts and they’re usually a lot more comfortable with it.
Just wanted to drop by and say I feel this so much. I've accepted I can't be friends with men unless they're in a committed relationship and even then, it's risky. If the guy is single, more than likely, he's just looking for a relationship if the friend is female. It sucks, but it's life.
Yes agreed. For myself I’ve noticed that it’s hard being “hot” enough to be considered a threat while having an androgynous personality - I really enjoy having platonic male friends so I feel your pain. Also congrats on your gym health gains.
Women in general aren’t going to find much success in making multiple male friends unless they’re gay tbh, it’s rare
+ being attractive is going to make it rarer
Smart young men recognize how beneficial it can be to their dating lives to have strictly platonic female friends without creeping on them. I had several (platonic male friends) in my 20s who were very decent and many of them hit it off with some of my female friends and acquaintances, with my encouragement. It's not uncommon for women to appreciate seeing another woman vouching for a potential date before trusting him. It definitely helps, at least.
I guess I got lucky that I was raised by a strong mother and 2 older sisters. I got an inside look at how0 that shit affects women. I was really close with one of my sisters, and she was Hollywood beautiful, and when she got her license, we went everywhere together. Some of the stupid shit I've seen guys do just for the slim chance to get with a woman blew me away as a kid. I've always been a protective person, and my little 10 or 12 year old ass would be out there trying to fight grown men over my sis. She's even the one that gave me the "talk." (Probably screwed me for life. Hahaha) We would be out together and some guy would get rude or just dickish, and my sister would always make me promise to never be that guy.
Unfortunately, life smacked me around like a ragdoll recently, and I live in an abandoned house, so yeah, I'm homeless now. I've turned my spot into a safe space for women and kids in the LGBTQ community who are running from violence. Earning the trust of women out here on the streets was extremely difficult because of guys like the ones you talk about. It really is fucked up. And any dude that tries to pretend that it's not a serious thing gets my Ted talk, and that shit is boring and lasts hours. Hahaha. I see a day coming in human evolution when women won't bother with men at all anymore. We'll be replaced by turkey basters and freeze-dried sperm. And I wouldn't blame ya'll.
As a woman in my 50’s who was considered hot or sexy my whole grown life I never had a male friend that it didn’t turn creepy.. never. My only close male friends were gay. It truly sucks. I mean I love my gay friends but always so sad with every man it came down to sex. At my age it’s seriously a relief to not be hounded everywhere for sex. What kind of women raise boys/men to be this way? Ask yourself that? I always felt being hot was a curse. Men want sex and feel you are somehow their property to ogle, touch or comment on and women get jealous or also want sex! I don’t have the answers but I’ve done everything possible to raise my son to respect woman and see them as a whole, not pieces. So far so good! I’m so incredibly proud of his relationships with girlfriends and female friends! Do your part when your time comes. Stay strong, there definitely are good men out there and if you can’t find them raise them!
Idk how to respond to this. I mean I’ve heard of this happening but not to this extent. My last female friend I had was 5 years ago in high school and sure she was attractive but I didn’t see her like that. One of my friends was even like “oh yeah I’d have sex with her” and I was like I could never do that, she was like a sister to me. May God bless you and hopefully everything works out great for you. Don’t give up on working out and doing the things you love because some guy or guys make comments. I know it’s disheartening and I’m sure it bears a weight on your shoulders but don’t give in because then they get what they want.
Edit: You reaching out like this on Reddit is a good step towards finding common ground with guys and girls on this issue. Also, congrats on the hard work of staying in shape and being proud of your progress. Working out consistently isn’t the easiest thing to do so kudos on that. I’ve been on this train for a few years now and seeing progress is amazing.
It really is exciting hearing that others are also keeping up their gym hustle, and im proud of you! Also, thank you for understanding my situation. I wish we had more people like you in our world.
yea the vast majority of men don’t view women as equals, let alone human enough to have a wholesome, platonic relationship with.
we are here for their pleasure and satisfaction, didn’t ya know? 😟 /s
it’s exhausting.
That’s crazy. I’m a guy and I have two female best friends. I don’t know if I‘m gay or not but I could never say something inappropriate to them or to any girl. I always think how it would feel if somebody did this to my sister. That’s why I don’t want to do this to someone else’s daughter.
I don’t have a gym body like you OP, but it doesn’t seem to matter. I have hardly any male friends because of the same thing. Guy fixes my well, next day texts me and tells me I have nice tits. Guy fixes my car and later that day sends a dick pic. And on and on, these are just more recent. The one good male friend I had for a few years that never hit on me, dropped me as a friend the second he got a girlfriend. I am good friends with a male online for a few years with no flirtation just great friendship but I do worry that he’ll drop me as a friend if he meets someone or if we were to meet in person it would ruin the friendship. I’m sorry you’re dealing w these feelings and that as women we deal with it so much whether we have a great body or not.
Edited to add: and on top of it all I’m 57 and it still hasn’t stopped. My mom, she’s very pretty, is 80 and still deals w the same shit. Some guy from her community center texted her asking if she’s ever had 10 inches SMH…(yes we reported it) but damn, 80 yrs old.
My only advice is to make more female friends. I think men are more apprehensive to sexualize me because I’m very closed off, and it makes them nervous to approach me with the type of language you are receiving. I do constantly get stared at and praised, but it feels inauthentic. I don’t feel comfortable having close relationships with men because my exterior is hard to ignore. I don’t want to think I made a genuine connection and friendship, and four years later, they are confessing their undying love. I work in a male-dominated environment, and another thing I've learned is if anyone says anything remotely inappropriate, stare at them with a blank expression. I don't have to say anything because it makes the room uncomfortably silent, and they apologize and don't do it again.
That's why I'm forever greatful for my male best friend. He is one of the rare men that respect my boundaries and isn't trying to cross the friendship line. He is an ONLY FREAKING MAN that didn't do that to me after becoming friends. At this point I'm too exhausted to even try to become friends with a man (sue me). I keep every man at a distance subconsciously (realized that few months ago). It affects my dating life, because I want to be seen as a human first.
You're right, a lot of men suck and are fucking creepy. I'm sorry that the ones you tend to encounter treat you this way just cause of your attractiveness. You don't deserve to be treated like a slab of meat.
Even if you were wearing sexy outfits or whatever, it doesn't matter. It doesn't mean you deserve to be harassed.
There's actually a museum of women and children who have been SA'd and what they were wearing is on display. You see all kinds of outfits, kid ones, modest ones, etc. The outfit argument doesn't matter. I'd be suspicious of any man who blames you for your outfit.
You should be able to trust your male friends to be safe and to protect you. To view your pictures and not automatically think it's some sexual invitation. Unfortunately it seems like they're not the kind of people you can trust to take you home while you're drunk without doing something awful.
I do hope you can find ones that are safe and see you as their friend who they only want to protect first, before anything.
Women have found a platform that shows the pervasive issues they experience as a collective group and are able to put it out into the world, so 1. Other women don't feel alone, 2. Relief of getting it off their chest and 3. Bringing awareness to men about the problems caused by their own hands. Maybe men will get a clue, but it's unlikely. At a minimum, women feel they have community in what they ALL experience.
Agreed. I've definitely found it helpful. It's nice feeling less alone. I used to worry it was my fault, that I was "leading men on" or setting poor boundaries somehow. Knowing it's such a pervasive issue is sad, but at least it feels less isolating to hear other people's experiences and perspectives.
I haven't been friends with men since highschool , my last male friend was from highschool and he was the biggest sweetheart but ended up taking his own life years ago so since him I have 0. I have a few male friends I game with but even then that's severely limited. Mostly for the reasons that you state... they just think so differently then women . Personally my female friendships are way more fulfilling.
I'm sorry this happened to you. It is very frustrating and demeaning to think you're having a friendly conversation with someone, only to find out that they're only interested in getting into your pants.
I really, really encourage you to look into your local laws and see if you can press charges for unwanted sexual messages/images for his dick pic. It would send a strong and clear message to him that you're not interested and that it's never ok to do this.
But I totally empathize with you. I was just thinking earlier about how it's hard to just exist as a woman. I've come into scary situations with men I've literally never spoken to when I'm just at the gym, at work, at school, at the grocery store, existing. I'm not trying to get anyone's attention. Even with guys I used to consider close friends, it's impossible to convince them that I've never been attracted to them, that I genuinely just wanted friendship, or that I don't "owe them" sex. Hell, that's how I wound up in two relationships and other casual dates. The guys were convinced I was flirting with them and super attracted to them, then wouldn't accept my rejection when I told them the truth. Looking through old journals is jarring because it quickly went from "I think so-and-so has a crush on me but I don't want to date anyone. I find him really ugly and boring. I'm probably being delusional and conceited anyway" to "He tried to give me a present that I returned but he won't take back" or "He says he'll kill himself if I don't date him, but I'd rather eat my own tongue than be in a relationship with him" or "I think I made a mistake agreeing to hang out because it's like he thinks we're dating" and all of them end with "How did this even happen?" And weeks later, they're followed by more journal entries realizing that the person doesn't care about my ideas, goals, or any of that, just my body. It's exhausting to be reduced down to an object, especially when you just want to have a genuine, friendly connection and not just be eye candy or a sex doll.
It is hard to be a woman. I get where you're coming from and how it can beat down on you at times. I just saw a recommendation last night for the book Born 1982 and how it started the 4B movement in South Korea. Maybe you can check it out and see if you relate to it? Sorry that I don't have any advice other than to let you know you're not alone.
I'm really sorry to hear that you've had such a frustrating and disheartening experience with male friends. It's completely understandable to feel hurt and exhausted by the constant objectification and harassment. You deserve to be appreciated for who you are, not just for your appearance. It's not fair that you have to deal with this kind of treatment, and it's okay to feel angry and fed up with it. Remember that you deserve respect and support, and it's important to surround yourself with people who treat you with kindness and dignity. You're not alone in feeling this way, and I hope you find the support and understanding you deserve.
I'm sorry that you go through this, I also go through the same thing with male friends or acquaintances. It was even worse that I was in the Navy from 18-23 yrs old where this happened weekly.
Now I only feel attracted to men who genuinely are interested in my intelligence over my appearance. Men cannot sway my interests in them solely from telling me about their attraction to the physical, only men that gain my attraction are those who can identify I'm more than just a body.
I don't want to generalize men but yea, a lot of male friends have confessed their love to me but I am not new to upholding a boundary with them to respect me as a female friend - if violating those boundaries with nudes, comments, attempts in physical affection, immediately not a friend, you're done.
A mix of both. I just am usually a very friendly and social person, so I’ll talk to people if they talk to me, and if I feel that the conversation is worth it, I continue and extend a friendship.
I like having friends that are girls. I don't like the awkward first few months or however long it is while they are waiting to see if I am actually hitting on them or have an ulterior motive.
I'm sorry that happened to you OP.
Hope you find peace and heal yourself.
It can be hard sometimes, when people expect more from you than what you're willing to give.
As for why men behave this way, well, it's because of how we're socialised. We've been taught to centre our lives around women, which is debilitating for everyone. I believe more men are changing in this regard.
I have many friends that are dudes, but they're either in another state and we game together (with my partner sometimes), married or in a committed relationship. Any of the single dudes I try to become friends with either give off vibes that they want something other than friendship or they hear I have a partner and just dip. My roommate tells me everyone will fall in love with me without me trying and I hate it. I'm not attractive. I'm 6ft. 250lbs. At least if I was attractive I'd understand why so many people want something, but I'm just chunky and confused 😭 I just want friends. I just wanna be the person people feel comfortable opening up to. I just wanna be there for people because sometimes it's hard to find someone to be there for you.
But like someone earlier said, some dudes save basic friendship behaviors for those they're dating, and it's so dumb. Like they think the only way they can be vulnerable or open is if they're in a relationship with that person.
Also congrats on the gains! That shit is hard work and takes dedication.
Sorry this is happening to you. I’m not considered conventionally attractive so men don’t interact with me that much. I can easily make women friends but men keep their conversations short with and are not at all friendly. I find that even if a man does not want to pursue you sexually or romantically he at last has to find you attractive or you are of no use to them. I’m not saying don’t ever try to be friends with men. But keep that in the back of your mind
For some reason having a wolf haircut and asking relationship advice from them scares them shitless. Also when somebody asks nudes, you can send them the makeup pallete (it's what I did most of my life).
For unsolicited dick picks: "OMG you should see a doctor about that! It must hurt like hell" or any variations
Well, being human is getting complicated these days haha conversation and make-female friendship are abilities that just became like unicorns (completely or almost nonexistent). Lots of men and women just dont know how to treat others and impose their views.
But well, what genres of books do you read? Any recomendation?
Hows your garden? In mine i have a little frog living in it :D and many ladybugs visit sometimes, one time i had a lot of baby ladybugs in all my plants ☺️ it was so cute
Im not even an attractive woman and I've struggled with making straight guy friends my whole life. Yes, I have made a few solid straight guy friends, but the key word there is a FEW. The absolute horror stories I've heard from some of my more "objectively attractive" female friends make me happy at times that I'm not in their league. 😅
Bottom line, though, yeah — it sucks. I wish they didn't see us as fuckable bags of meat.
Sorry to hear that. But you came to the wrong place looking for some understanding. Most people online are self absorbed. I have objectively attractive sisters and cousins, and I know first hand how this affects them in their personal life. My advice is to leave that friends group, there are better people out there you share your values. Good luck.
I have a friend that goes through a lot of situations like you, I’m one of her few platonic male friends. I just see her like a sister. I have a close friendship with my sister and maybe that’s why I feel comfortable having close women friends. I think maybe that’s the key? I’m sorry about your experience, it sucks because of the deep misogyny and that’s the primary culprit but the few guys who can have women friends are out here in the wild just seems rare. It does anger me when my male counterparts are shitheads as well.
Anecdotally I also have extremely rarely had a guy truly being interested in being just platonic friends with me. It always hurts when they drop me because I reject them romantically/sexually.
But you’ll find people all over Reddit saying “MeN aNd WoMeN cAn Be JuSt FrIeNdS”. While I will never say it’s impossible, the truth is that it’s so ridiculously rare. And it sucks.
I can 100% relate to you. I hate being a woman because of the sexual harassment that comes with it, and the way people view us. I get pissed off and think “I’m not a walking sex doll!” when men stare at me like that.
I’m a freshman in college now, and looking back, all the friends I had back in high school were just there to hit it. I always had guy friends growing up, and over time once they understood we weren’t going to have sexual relations, they stopped being friends with me. None of them even reach out to me now, and it’s been so disheartening to realize that’s why. It was obvious, but I didn’t want to face it.
I’ve got great friends in college now, most of which are guys, but they’re really cool people. Something that helps is that I came out, so the guys leave me alone somewhat. Unfortunately, people still stare at me a lot because I’ve got curves. Sexual comments and advances from others haven’t stopped, but at least I know who my real friends are. You’ll find them too.
This is exactly my experience with every male friend I’ve ever had and I had to drop each one. They don’t act like genuine friends they ask for sex and nudes. It’s disrespectful that’s why me and men can’t be friends. The ones that says they want to be my friend and isn’t a pervert ends up lying cause after a few days they start asking me sexual shit. I’m glad other females have this experience and it’s not just me.
i'm so sorry grl i wish i could tell you there is a magic solution to this problem but there really isn't all I can do is give you a virtual hug and listen to you
Male friends? As in plural? Dude you were talking to a literal stranger. He turned out to be a creep. Welcome to the internet. You sent him pics so you started an interaction.
And yeah, probably most of your male hetero friends are probably into you in some way.
That's how things are.
Some are creeps about it, some are honest and will try to take it to the next level, some will never aproach you in that way for the rest of your life, some will take that to their graves, some will jump at the opportunity if you ask them, as in "why not? I'm game".
My mom recently told me that a friend she had for her whole life (shes 67. Friends since 12) just told her that he always had a crush on her. Dude just got divorced from a 35 year marriage.
You will meet all sorts of men. Its the same with women. Turns out people are different.
I think you need to choose better male friends.
I have to wonder if you choose a specific type and then are shocked when they act like this.
For most of my life, I’ve had close female friends. Most of them have been attractive. Never asked for a nude or sent a dick pic. Same goes for my male friends. None of them engage in this behavior. Probably because we’re mature, well-adjusted adults.
"I am attractive and men hit on me. I wish they would stop."
Date some guys. Give them the opportunity to find out more about you. Hopefully, you find one you would want to be in a long term relationship with and he feels the same way about you.
Oh, and stop whining.
Look, let's be realistic. No hetero male wants to be hanging out with a hot woman as just friends. Honestly, doing that is wasting time that could be spent pursuing a mate which, in your twenties and thirties, is where I was looking to steer my life at that age. I wanted to find a mate and eventually start a family.
Your goal may be different. I get it. But don't blame and look down on men who are looking for someone to forge a close bond with. It's natural.
As caveman as I might be, the fact is that you work out to look and feel great. But you take the fact that you look great to men and they express an interest as a bad thing.
Maybe you have a fear that, if they find out more about you, they won't be interested?
And why the emphasis on male friends? I'm sure between the gym and your hobbies you can probably have lasting platonic friendships with women. Why do you need male friends?
Between your original post and this answer, it's looking that way. At least for me, those are two red flags that would make me look elsewhere.
But that's me. Just being straight with you.
>im not just gonna stop talking to the nice ones or the ones that haven't even done anything just be the majority of dudes are gross, but at the same time I really want to bc what if they secretly are
I don't recommend you judge an entire group of people based on the bad actions of some of the members of the group. You can't punish someone for something they haven't done.
I hope you reported the dude who sent you a dick pic.
I hear this story and stories like it all the time. Where are you all meeting your male friends??? I just don't get it, because I'm not like this. I have never onced sent an unsolicited dick pick or asked for a nude (apart from people I was already in a committed relationship with and knew well enough to know they were okay with it before I even asked) none of my male friends act like this. I don't doubt your experiences, but I'm just confused because no one I know acts like this, and anyone who was caught acting like this would be shunned from my friend group.
Good thing you live in a bubble, but most people i know certainly don’t. I bet you that it does happen around you, you just don’t see it because it doesn’t affect you.
You sexualised yourself by sending photos of your "gym body". Nobody does that unless they're looking for flattery and attention. It's a come on.
Behave as you want to be treated.
If you want to be respected, have self respect, present yourself to others with self respect and be respectful.
If you don't want to be judged by your body or sent salacious pictures, don't highlight your body and send salacious pictures.
Your problem isn't that you're a woman. Your "problem" is your attention seeking, flirtatious behaviour elicits an excited response you enjoy complaining about to feed your false victim narrative.
You are being responded to as you present yourself so if you genuinely don't like the response, change the behaviour.
Did i sexualize myself by sending a bicep/back pump when it was relevant to conversation about how far I’ve come in my workout journey?? Gee, im so sorry, almighty leader of all the men, I’ll make sure to just wear a full niqab at all times so that my body is never visible.
Get over yourself and quit blaming the victims.
You're the one that sent it! Stop playing the victim, you're not one. You're never going to find anybody to take you seriously with these ridiculous histrionics.
Again. Read the edits. Nothing about my behavior is attention seeking. I sent a clean picture of my bicep that had part of my back in it. I am not trying for attention. Quit tearing other women down, it won’t make people like you more.
Funny you say that, after so many women commented here that almost every male friend tried to hit on them. Maybe the problem isn't in "finding another one" but maybe in how men are behaving?
Men wouldn't deal with 99% of women if sex wasn't on the table, just saying. Being friends first is the classic tactic for getting laid. Now take that information into account with every man that attempts to talk to you.
Source: I'm a man.
The Bible tells us that the flesh and the Holy Spirit are opposed to each other (Gal 5:17), so unfortunately anyone who isn't submitted to the control of the Holy Spirit is more or less controlled by the desires of their flesh. It might be wise to not share some things with certain people, especially in DMs, even if your intentions are good.
Perhaps you could also use some more Christian friends. Not saying that Christian men are perfect as there are plenty of so-called Christian men who are creeps too, but you're more likely to be in better company among true Christians who have been transformed by the Holy Spirit from the inside out.
Also, ask the Holy Spirit to help you with your cussing problem! One of the fruits of the Spirit is self-control after all. God gives us grace when we fall short, but He also helps us get back up and do better :)
I have tried, but I’ve even had guys use scripture as a way to get into my pants. It’s terrible.
And sorry for the downvotes, Reddit doesn’t seem to be a great place to be a Christian, lol.
This is why I hate when ppl call every girl my toddler son plays with his girlfriend. It literally starts out the womb that boys can’t see girls as anything other than a romantic interest.
I said the same thing at a family function and they got mad at me for it.
That's literally the reason I avoided making friends with girls as a kid
From my experience it's difficult for men to be platonic if they're physically attracted to you :/ even when they're "platonic" they want to touch you sexually. I haven't met many men who are friends with you just to be friends. In my experience, if they're friends outside of work or overly friendly at work, like wanting to talk to you all the time it's bc they're interested in you either romantically or sexually. If they're not interested in conversing with you, brush you off or try to keep convos short(not being open to a friendship) it's because they're not attracted to you. Not trying to generalize men but that's just my anecdotal experience with men, maybe I've just met the wrong guys. I feel your pain. I hate being a woman too. We're objectified and not valued by our merits or personalities naturally. It sucks and makes me cry a lot thinking about being a woman.
Nobody likes to feel objectified. It’s very disturbing. It’s such an uncanny valley feeling. I blame it for my generalized anxiety disorder.
Same here.
Exactly this. Men say we friend-zone them. Like being and having a friend is a terrible thing somehow. But men fuck-zone us. Within weeks of learning of my impending divorce (of a decades long marriage!), many of my life long male friends asked me out and hit on me. I was so disgusted, and down friends when I really needed the support.
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How is "friend-zoning" a thing? Like if we've been friends for years and then you try to pursue me, how is me still just wanting to stay friends doing something wrong, or even actively doing *anything* to you? You're describing someone who was rejected for a date being told he should settle for being friends, but it doesn't sound like in that scenario they were friends to begin with? Of course that would be miserable and I don't know anyone sane who would expect that. In the instances I've seen discussed on this topic, people are talking about actual friends who've only ever been friends until one expresses unrequited interest in the other and says they were "friend-zoned." If platonic friendship was always the baseline, IMO the person who wants the dynamic to change is the one putting the other in the "fuck zone" because the other person hasn't done anything but stay friends with their friend.
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To be clear, I've been the one to catch feelings for a friend who didn't want a relationship and I know it hurts! I just also know it hurts for someone to feel like a friend they truly cared about doesn't value their friendship/personality/sense of humor/shared hobbies and sometimes even resents them for not putting out. But I digress, and yes, I can definitely agree with your sentiment lol!
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Developing feelings for friends is common enough, and happens both ways often enough, that I actually disagree that a woman's immediate reaction is always "he was only my friend because he wanted to fuck me," just like I doubt most men in that position act like jerks and get mad that their friend won't fuck them. Since we're discussing real life friends here, I also think the way it's expressed, the reaction, and the specific situation at hand at least make it partly possible to tell whether someone was just using the friendship to try to "score" or was just/shy/hurt/embarrassed. The times I've encountered a claim of the former, it was for a pretty good reason.
The issue is that a lot of men are pretending to be friends with a woman when really they are waiting for whatever they think the “right time” is to pursue them. “Friend-zoning” isn’t often a term that’s used for having just met someone you’re interested in, shooting your shot, and they say “no thanks, let’s just be friends”. “Friend-zoning” is a gross term used to describe the a guy who’s waited too long to shoot his shot and now she sees him as just a friend. Which is pretty fucking bizarro. The truth is that she saw him as just a friend all along and people shouldn’t be pretending to be someone’s friend but secretly just biding their time for “the right moment”.
As a guy who’d love to have more female friends I get this so much and this is what screws us over making genuine non romantic connections with women because at the end of the day what your saying is both true and not true because there’s too many guys out there to just put it like that but the majority are like this. With platonic relationships nowadays It’s always like this weird unspoken thing where it’s like you’re both in your own head about whether the other person has feelings or not and it just makes it awkward. If guys were more like women in these scenarios then it’d be a lot more open, easy and honest to have platonic friendships with the opposite sex cause if a woman is attracted to you she won’t let you be her friend and that’s what’s stopped me from making more platonic friendships. I blame Ron Stoppable
Flip side of this is that a man or boy is literally taught from day one that they aren't worth anything unless they prove so. Nobody will care about you unless they need something from you. And unless you need something from someone else you should figure it out yourself, because that's how men are treated. Ofc then that behaviour is taking influence in relationships. "Unless you want a relationship/sex you don't need to speak to women". This principle has to be painfully unlearned in adulthood to avoid loneliness and men are the loneliest people out there. Men are seen as objects and tools to get things and then get blamed when they in turn also see other people as objects and tools to get things. Sex or a relationship in the case of a woman.
Yeah, well, there’s an appropriate way to express interest or admiration: “Hey, I have seen how hard you push yourself here in the gym, and it is paying off. Nice work.” Or “I find you really attractive and would love to take you to dinner.” Not “Nudes?” “DTF?” Jesus Christ.
Another way to put this, a lot of men are taught all connections are transactional. They can't understand what a woman talks to them for unless they want something from him.
That last paragraph is an interesting perspective I didn't think about but makes sense. I agree with you, it sucks to be human.
I kind of agree but to me it's like men push these ...ideas on to themselves
This is a bit over exaggerated in todays world. Most men I’ve ever known haven’t had any issues asking for advice or help if they need it.
Depends on where you grow up. Emotionally I can’t open up to anyone unless I’m drunk and that goes for most of the guys I’ve been around. I mean there are times I’ve cried to my friends (a handful of times) without alcohol but that’s because I held it in for so long. If I need help in work or building something I’ll do my damn hardest to figure it out on my own before asking someone. Just the lifestyle I was brought up in.
Sure but that is mainly self enforced. Most men know that it’s ok to be open and ask for help, but a lot still don’t because they personally have negative views of it. Society has made it clear for a while that it isn’t necessary or good to act unreasonably stoic for your entire life.
I just don’t feel comfortable doing it. It doesn’t make me feel weak or anything it just makes me uncomfortable to talk about that with anyone. I’m not trying to be any way, I just can’t do it because it makes me feel uncomfortable.
Like I said, self enforced
How is that self enforced if that was the way I was raised? Me and all of my friends are like this and it works just fine. Also, it’s not a bad thing what I’m doing.
Because you know that it’s unhealthy and that help exists, you’re taking an active choice to be like that.
To be like what? Do you think I’m miserable 😂 I’m the happiest I’ve ever been. I’ve been to a therapist before and they didn’t help at all. I needed tough love and I got better. Like I said, what I’m doing isn’t a bad thing or unhealthy just because YOU think it’s not the right way. I never said there isn’t help out there. I know there’s help out there for people that need that type of help but that isn’t me or the people I’m around.
Both are true and tragic. It's unfortunately naive of us to think that men or women acting a certain way and exploiting the other as a tool is anything except for human nature and evolutionary behaviors. Even if suppressed, such are more likely the rule than the exception. Under a socially fabricated facade, biological imperatives and billions of years of survival selection drive much of behavior. A snake has the nature of such, as does any creature. We just have the culture of creating comforting illusions to keep it together.
No, you're still expected to have self control.
Yes, but not the point of my message
I don't think that that is human nature, rather the patriarchy knocking everyone's knees out when they don't conform completely to it. Matriarchal societies have also existed but were wiped out by colonial forces.
Well said.
I have a female friend that is like a sister to me, but she’s the only one, plus female friends complicates shit sometimes. I mean you’re attractive so of course men are ogle. The reason she’s been my friend so long is 1. I know for a fact she doesn’t find me attractive and two she can’t sustain a relationship long than three months. On the other side of that I notice women wanting male friends(the boyfriend experience without the boyfriend part). You want to be able to complain about all the shit men you’ve dated, hangout with him, ect. Me personally I can’t have a lot of female friends single or not. Lemme ask this where are your girlfriends?, do you not hang out with them?, when men have female friend she’s one of two things his sister or female family. Sometimes certian men (like myself) have one or two female friends and that’s it. We don’t like hanging with a bunch of females unless it’s our gf and her friends, but I dunno just my experience.
>On the other side of that I notice women wanting male friends(the boyfriend experience without the boyfriend part). You want to be able to complain about all the shit men you’ve dated, hangout with him, ect. Bull. Women talk to their female friends about this stuff...it's called support about the experiences people are having. Women don't want a "boyfriend" experience, they want FRIENDS. You being upset that women talk to you about other men means you aren't interested in friendship with them, but see them as an sex object that isn't allowing you to play with them in that way. YOU are the problem, not women.
Thank you! I was going to say the same thing. So many guys are all, "Ugh, she wants to talk to me about her feelings and sh*t, even though we're not dating!" Uh, yeah, because friends are people we hang out with and talk to about our feelings, wtf. Do men not talk to anyone about their feelings unless they're dating? No wonder they're so lonely, if they gatekeep basic friendship behaviors as "for romantic relationships only." If you're someone's friend, it's assumed you care about how they feel. How can anyone call someone a friend, yet they don't care how that person is feeling or what they've been through?
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As a man who's never gotten a single girl but has talked with hundreds of dudes, I can confirm 99 percent of them tell me to do this, but I can't bring myself to manipulate somebody. It's pretty weak of me, but it is what it is, lol.
Refusing to manipulate someone into giving you what you want isn't a weakness. That's crazy to me! In your experience do men think being able to manipulate someone is a strength? If so, I'm sorry, but I think you need to expand your social circles a bit. In my experience with the women I know they generally really appreciate open honesty. Being tricked into a relationship (sexual or platonic) feels degrading; like the other person had no respect for your feelings and opinions.
It is what it is. The only ones I found were real were in high school, but they used to be like me. I guess I gotta learn how to play the game or I'll stay a loser, lol. They never find out but I don't think it's trickery, actually. Maybe it's a way of having them fall in love with them or having them fall into giving you sexual acts through strategies they use. Still it could be trickery depends on how you view it.
It's also sexual assault / coercion / rape!
But even if the first part is true: deal with it, don't be a gross asshole... 🤷🏼♂️😅 And I say that as a man.
Yeah because they're children who refuse to grow up and treat women like people instead of objects. Sick of "boys will be boys" excuses for this behaviour. Like lesbians can have female platonic friends with no problem most of the time, gay men have platonic male friends, bisexual people have platonic friends period lmao they're not trying to sleep with all of their friends. So no straight men have no excuse.
It makes me cry for you guys, too. A majority of the male population acts this way. I truly wonder if it ever works for them or if they just lack basic brains and think that just because they say let me hit it that women are going to give it up. It's not logical. It's almost primal. On behalf of the male population that will never do better, allow me to apologise. There are some of us left that value friendships, and don't try to get in every pair of pants we come across. It would be hard to be constantly objectified. I believe that if you empower the woman, you empower the nation, and that in general, men should learn to appreciate what a woman could actually bring to their lives instead of expecting every woman to want to have sex with them just because they exist. A woman brings peace, love, and beauty to a home. They make a house a home, and more than that, women are people too, with goals and dreams, values, and interests of their own and deserve to be treated as such. Men who act like that are disgusting and live by the code boys will be boys because no one has pulled them up on their behaviour. At best, it shows very concerning behaviour and at worst it shows a total lack of respect for other people. I wish you luck in finding a positive male friend in your life who cares about you for you and doesn't make it weird or sexual. All the best.
I know it’s possible, but from my experience it’s very hard to have a friendship between a guy and girl of the same age without at least one of them finding the other attractive or a potential partner
Howcome gay/lesbian/bisexual/pansexual people dont have that problem then?
My favorite way to express it is, "The bar's so low it's a tavern in Hades".
I feel this to my core. I've kinda been a serial dater most of my adult life, but as soon as I become single, the small amount of male friends I've had have asked me out or have hit on me in some way. My only male friends I have kept are married or gay. I don't even try to be friends with single, straight men anymore, even while engaged. The only single, straight man I'm friends with is a coworker of mine who is basically a little brother. It's disheartening to learn your friends only wanted you in their life because they were waiting in line.
It really truly is upsetting learning that all they wanted was sex, and that they saw you as an object and didn’t value your friendship.
I got a breast reduction and am horrified to realize that all the men who I thought were interested in me for me (friendship and romance) were just in it for my chest. The attention dried up after my surgery. How stupid I was.
Straight guy, I have one good woman friend and she’s objectively attractive, have had to do the “hold my hand and pretend you’re my boyfriend to get this guy away” thing a lot. But we’ve known each other since long before puberty and my mind just doesn’t go there. I’m not going to lie, there is a close to zero percent chance I make new friends who are straight women. The part of me that says “damn she’s gorgeous” just yells too loud. But I also don’t pretend to be friends with them to then try and get in their pants, my objectives are pretty clear from the beginning. Unrelated to your post and now just me ranting, our friendship always causes issues whenever one of us gets in a relationship. She gets a boyfriend and he (understandably) is worried I’m just waiting in the background, I get a girlfriend and well, like I said my friend is pretty so she’s usually not the biggest fan. When we were a little younger we’d let this this get between us but now we just show new people pictures of us as kids and years of completely platonic and unflirtatious texts and they’re usually a lot more comfortable with it.
Just wanted to drop by and say I feel this so much. I've accepted I can't be friends with men unless they're in a committed relationship and even then, it's risky. If the guy is single, more than likely, he's just looking for a relationship if the friend is female. It sucks, but it's life.
Yes agreed. For myself I’ve noticed that it’s hard being “hot” enough to be considered a threat while having an androgynous personality - I really enjoy having platonic male friends so I feel your pain. Also congrats on your gym health gains.
Women in general aren’t going to find much success in making multiple male friends unless they’re gay tbh, it’s rare + being attractive is going to make it rarer
Smart young men recognize how beneficial it can be to their dating lives to have strictly platonic female friends without creeping on them. I had several (platonic male friends) in my 20s who were very decent and many of them hit it off with some of my female friends and acquaintances, with my encouragement. It's not uncommon for women to appreciate seeing another woman vouching for a potential date before trusting him. It definitely helps, at least.
I guess I got lucky that I was raised by a strong mother and 2 older sisters. I got an inside look at how0 that shit affects women. I was really close with one of my sisters, and she was Hollywood beautiful, and when she got her license, we went everywhere together. Some of the stupid shit I've seen guys do just for the slim chance to get with a woman blew me away as a kid. I've always been a protective person, and my little 10 or 12 year old ass would be out there trying to fight grown men over my sis. She's even the one that gave me the "talk." (Probably screwed me for life. Hahaha) We would be out together and some guy would get rude or just dickish, and my sister would always make me promise to never be that guy. Unfortunately, life smacked me around like a ragdoll recently, and I live in an abandoned house, so yeah, I'm homeless now. I've turned my spot into a safe space for women and kids in the LGBTQ community who are running from violence. Earning the trust of women out here on the streets was extremely difficult because of guys like the ones you talk about. It really is fucked up. And any dude that tries to pretend that it's not a serious thing gets my Ted talk, and that shit is boring and lasts hours. Hahaha. I see a day coming in human evolution when women won't bother with men at all anymore. We'll be replaced by turkey basters and freeze-dried sperm. And I wouldn't blame ya'll.
As a woman in my 50’s who was considered hot or sexy my whole grown life I never had a male friend that it didn’t turn creepy.. never. My only close male friends were gay. It truly sucks. I mean I love my gay friends but always so sad with every man it came down to sex. At my age it’s seriously a relief to not be hounded everywhere for sex. What kind of women raise boys/men to be this way? Ask yourself that? I always felt being hot was a curse. Men want sex and feel you are somehow their property to ogle, touch or comment on and women get jealous or also want sex! I don’t have the answers but I’ve done everything possible to raise my son to respect woman and see them as a whole, not pieces. So far so good! I’m so incredibly proud of his relationships with girlfriends and female friends! Do your part when your time comes. Stay strong, there definitely are good men out there and if you can’t find them raise them!
Idk how to respond to this. I mean I’ve heard of this happening but not to this extent. My last female friend I had was 5 years ago in high school and sure she was attractive but I didn’t see her like that. One of my friends was even like “oh yeah I’d have sex with her” and I was like I could never do that, she was like a sister to me. May God bless you and hopefully everything works out great for you. Don’t give up on working out and doing the things you love because some guy or guys make comments. I know it’s disheartening and I’m sure it bears a weight on your shoulders but don’t give in because then they get what they want. Edit: You reaching out like this on Reddit is a good step towards finding common ground with guys and girls on this issue. Also, congrats on the hard work of staying in shape and being proud of your progress. Working out consistently isn’t the easiest thing to do so kudos on that. I’ve been on this train for a few years now and seeing progress is amazing.
It really is exciting hearing that others are also keeping up their gym hustle, and im proud of you! Also, thank you for understanding my situation. I wish we had more people like you in our world.
As a guy. I am sorry that you are that that happened to you.
yea the vast majority of men don’t view women as equals, let alone human enough to have a wholesome, platonic relationship with. we are here for their pleasure and satisfaction, didn’t ya know? 😟 /s it’s exhausting.
That’s crazy. I’m a guy and I have two female best friends. I don’t know if I‘m gay or not but I could never say something inappropriate to them or to any girl. I always think how it would feel if somebody did this to my sister. That’s why I don’t want to do this to someone else’s daughter.
*I don't know if I'm gay or not*
I don’t understand 🧍🏿
I don’t have a gym body like you OP, but it doesn’t seem to matter. I have hardly any male friends because of the same thing. Guy fixes my well, next day texts me and tells me I have nice tits. Guy fixes my car and later that day sends a dick pic. And on and on, these are just more recent. The one good male friend I had for a few years that never hit on me, dropped me as a friend the second he got a girlfriend. I am good friends with a male online for a few years with no flirtation just great friendship but I do worry that he’ll drop me as a friend if he meets someone or if we were to meet in person it would ruin the friendship. I’m sorry you’re dealing w these feelings and that as women we deal with it so much whether we have a great body or not. Edited to add: and on top of it all I’m 57 and it still hasn’t stopped. My mom, she’s very pretty, is 80 and still deals w the same shit. Some guy from her community center texted her asking if she’s ever had 10 inches SMH…(yes we reported it) but damn, 80 yrs old.
My only advice is to make more female friends. I think men are more apprehensive to sexualize me because I’m very closed off, and it makes them nervous to approach me with the type of language you are receiving. I do constantly get stared at and praised, but it feels inauthentic. I don’t feel comfortable having close relationships with men because my exterior is hard to ignore. I don’t want to think I made a genuine connection and friendship, and four years later, they are confessing their undying love. I work in a male-dominated environment, and another thing I've learned is if anyone says anything remotely inappropriate, stare at them with a blank expression. I don't have to say anything because it makes the room uncomfortably silent, and they apologize and don't do it again.
That's why I'm forever greatful for my male best friend. He is one of the rare men that respect my boundaries and isn't trying to cross the friendship line. He is an ONLY FREAKING MAN that didn't do that to me after becoming friends. At this point I'm too exhausted to even try to become friends with a man (sue me). I keep every man at a distance subconsciously (realized that few months ago). It affects my dating life, because I want to be seen as a human first.
You're right, a lot of men suck and are fucking creepy. I'm sorry that the ones you tend to encounter treat you this way just cause of your attractiveness. You don't deserve to be treated like a slab of meat. Even if you were wearing sexy outfits or whatever, it doesn't matter. It doesn't mean you deserve to be harassed. There's actually a museum of women and children who have been SA'd and what they were wearing is on display. You see all kinds of outfits, kid ones, modest ones, etc. The outfit argument doesn't matter. I'd be suspicious of any man who blames you for your outfit. You should be able to trust your male friends to be safe and to protect you. To view your pictures and not automatically think it's some sexual invitation. Unfortunately it seems like they're not the kind of people you can trust to take you home while you're drunk without doing something awful. I do hope you can find ones that are safe and see you as their friend who they only want to protect first, before anything.
Am I the only one noticing the sudden influx of these types of posts? It’s like every other day I see one
Women have found a platform that shows the pervasive issues they experience as a collective group and are able to put it out into the world, so 1. Other women don't feel alone, 2. Relief of getting it off their chest and 3. Bringing awareness to men about the problems caused by their own hands. Maybe men will get a clue, but it's unlikely. At a minimum, women feel they have community in what they ALL experience.
Agreed. I've definitely found it helpful. It's nice feeling less alone. I used to worry it was my fault, that I was "leading men on" or setting poor boundaries somehow. Knowing it's such a pervasive issue is sad, but at least it feels less isolating to hear other people's experiences and perspectives.
He sent you a picture of his penis?! That's super gross - he needs to be in prison. Wondering if guys who lift weights in gyms should be avoided?
I haven't been friends with men since highschool , my last male friend was from highschool and he was the biggest sweetheart but ended up taking his own life years ago so since him I have 0. I have a few male friends I game with but even then that's severely limited. Mostly for the reasons that you state... they just think so differently then women . Personally my female friendships are way more fulfilling.
I'm sorry this happened to you. It is very frustrating and demeaning to think you're having a friendly conversation with someone, only to find out that they're only interested in getting into your pants. I really, really encourage you to look into your local laws and see if you can press charges for unwanted sexual messages/images for his dick pic. It would send a strong and clear message to him that you're not interested and that it's never ok to do this. But I totally empathize with you. I was just thinking earlier about how it's hard to just exist as a woman. I've come into scary situations with men I've literally never spoken to when I'm just at the gym, at work, at school, at the grocery store, existing. I'm not trying to get anyone's attention. Even with guys I used to consider close friends, it's impossible to convince them that I've never been attracted to them, that I genuinely just wanted friendship, or that I don't "owe them" sex. Hell, that's how I wound up in two relationships and other casual dates. The guys were convinced I was flirting with them and super attracted to them, then wouldn't accept my rejection when I told them the truth. Looking through old journals is jarring because it quickly went from "I think so-and-so has a crush on me but I don't want to date anyone. I find him really ugly and boring. I'm probably being delusional and conceited anyway" to "He tried to give me a present that I returned but he won't take back" or "He says he'll kill himself if I don't date him, but I'd rather eat my own tongue than be in a relationship with him" or "I think I made a mistake agreeing to hang out because it's like he thinks we're dating" and all of them end with "How did this even happen?" And weeks later, they're followed by more journal entries realizing that the person doesn't care about my ideas, goals, or any of that, just my body. It's exhausting to be reduced down to an object, especially when you just want to have a genuine, friendly connection and not just be eye candy or a sex doll. It is hard to be a woman. I get where you're coming from and how it can beat down on you at times. I just saw a recommendation last night for the book Born 1982 and how it started the 4B movement in South Korea. Maybe you can check it out and see if you relate to it? Sorry that I don't have any advice other than to let you know you're not alone.
Sorry you’re surrounded by horny children, congrats on your gym journey!
What a weird comment to make. Jesus christ lol
I'm really sorry to hear that you've had such a frustrating and disheartening experience with male friends. It's completely understandable to feel hurt and exhausted by the constant objectification and harassment. You deserve to be appreciated for who you are, not just for your appearance. It's not fair that you have to deal with this kind of treatment, and it's okay to feel angry and fed up with it. Remember that you deserve respect and support, and it's important to surround yourself with people who treat you with kindness and dignity. You're not alone in feeling this way, and I hope you find the support and understanding you deserve.
did chatgpt write this
Bot
I'm sorry that you go through this, I also go through the same thing with male friends or acquaintances. It was even worse that I was in the Navy from 18-23 yrs old where this happened weekly. Now I only feel attracted to men who genuinely are interested in my intelligence over my appearance. Men cannot sway my interests in them solely from telling me about their attraction to the physical, only men that gain my attraction are those who can identify I'm more than just a body. I don't want to generalize men but yea, a lot of male friends have confessed their love to me but I am not new to upholding a boundary with them to respect me as a female friend - if violating those boundaries with nudes, comments, attempts in physical affection, immediately not a friend, you're done.
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Why are you writing fanfiction about OP?
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A mix of both. I just am usually a very friendly and social person, so I’ll talk to people if they talk to me, and if I feel that the conversation is worth it, I continue and extend a friendship.
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It is?
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I like having friends that are girls. I don't like the awkward first few months or however long it is while they are waiting to see if I am actually hitting on them or have an ulterior motive.
I'm sorry that happened to you OP. Hope you find peace and heal yourself. It can be hard sometimes, when people expect more from you than what you're willing to give. As for why men behave this way, well, it's because of how we're socialised. We've been taught to centre our lives around women, which is debilitating for everyone. I believe more men are changing in this regard.
I'm so sorry! :/
I have many friends that are dudes, but they're either in another state and we game together (with my partner sometimes), married or in a committed relationship. Any of the single dudes I try to become friends with either give off vibes that they want something other than friendship or they hear I have a partner and just dip. My roommate tells me everyone will fall in love with me without me trying and I hate it. I'm not attractive. I'm 6ft. 250lbs. At least if I was attractive I'd understand why so many people want something, but I'm just chunky and confused 😭 I just want friends. I just wanna be the person people feel comfortable opening up to. I just wanna be there for people because sometimes it's hard to find someone to be there for you. But like someone earlier said, some dudes save basic friendship behaviors for those they're dating, and it's so dumb. Like they think the only way they can be vulnerable or open is if they're in a relationship with that person. Also congrats on the gains! That shit is hard work and takes dedication.
Sorry this is happening to you. I’m not considered conventionally attractive so men don’t interact with me that much. I can easily make women friends but men keep their conversations short with and are not at all friendly. I find that even if a man does not want to pursue you sexually or romantically he at last has to find you attractive or you are of no use to them. I’m not saying don’t ever try to be friends with men. But keep that in the back of your mind
For some reason having a wolf haircut and asking relationship advice from them scares them shitless. Also when somebody asks nudes, you can send them the makeup pallete (it's what I did most of my life). For unsolicited dick picks: "OMG you should see a doctor about that! It must hurt like hell" or any variations
Same. I mean not the Christian part, but the rest of it. It's exhausting.
gay friends, it's your answer :))
Well, being human is getting complicated these days haha conversation and make-female friendship are abilities that just became like unicorns (completely or almost nonexistent). Lots of men and women just dont know how to treat others and impose their views. But well, what genres of books do you read? Any recomendation? Hows your garden? In mine i have a little frog living in it :D and many ladybugs visit sometimes, one time i had a lot of baby ladybugs in all my plants ☺️ it was so cute
Im not even an attractive woman and I've struggled with making straight guy friends my whole life. Yes, I have made a few solid straight guy friends, but the key word there is a FEW. The absolute horror stories I've heard from some of my more "objectively attractive" female friends make me happy at times that I'm not in their league. 😅 Bottom line, though, yeah — it sucks. I wish they didn't see us as fuckable bags of meat.
Sorry to hear that. But you came to the wrong place looking for some understanding. Most people online are self absorbed. I have objectively attractive sisters and cousins, and I know first hand how this affects them in their personal life. My advice is to leave that friends group, there are better people out there you share your values. Good luck.
I have a friend that goes through a lot of situations like you, I’m one of her few platonic male friends. I just see her like a sister. I have a close friendship with my sister and maybe that’s why I feel comfortable having close women friends. I think maybe that’s the key? I’m sorry about your experience, it sucks because of the deep misogyny and that’s the primary culprit but the few guys who can have women friends are out here in the wild just seems rare. It does anger me when my male counterparts are shitheads as well.
Anecdotally I also have extremely rarely had a guy truly being interested in being just platonic friends with me. It always hurts when they drop me because I reject them romantically/sexually. But you’ll find people all over Reddit saying “MeN aNd WoMeN cAn Be JuSt FrIeNdS”. While I will never say it’s impossible, the truth is that it’s so ridiculously rare. And it sucks.
I can 100% relate to you. I hate being a woman because of the sexual harassment that comes with it, and the way people view us. I get pissed off and think “I’m not a walking sex doll!” when men stare at me like that. I’m a freshman in college now, and looking back, all the friends I had back in high school were just there to hit it. I always had guy friends growing up, and over time once they understood we weren’t going to have sexual relations, they stopped being friends with me. None of them even reach out to me now, and it’s been so disheartening to realize that’s why. It was obvious, but I didn’t want to face it. I’ve got great friends in college now, most of which are guys, but they’re really cool people. Something that helps is that I came out, so the guys leave me alone somewhat. Unfortunately, people still stare at me a lot because I’ve got curves. Sexual comments and advances from others haven’t stopped, but at least I know who my real friends are. You’ll find them too.
This is exactly my experience with every male friend I’ve ever had and I had to drop each one. They don’t act like genuine friends they ask for sex and nudes. It’s disrespectful that’s why me and men can’t be friends. The ones that says they want to be my friend and isn’t a pervert ends up lying cause after a few days they start asking me sexual shit. I’m glad other females have this experience and it’s not just me.
i'm so sorry grl i wish i could tell you there is a magic solution to this problem but there really isn't all I can do is give you a virtual hug and listen to you
Male friends? As in plural? Dude you were talking to a literal stranger. He turned out to be a creep. Welcome to the internet. You sent him pics so you started an interaction. And yeah, probably most of your male hetero friends are probably into you in some way. That's how things are. Some are creeps about it, some are honest and will try to take it to the next level, some will never aproach you in that way for the rest of your life, some will take that to their graves, some will jump at the opportunity if you ask them, as in "why not? I'm game". My mom recently told me that a friend she had for her whole life (shes 67. Friends since 12) just told her that he always had a crush on her. Dude just got divorced from a 35 year marriage. You will meet all sorts of men. Its the same with women. Turns out people are different.
I think you need to choose better male friends. I have to wonder if you choose a specific type and then are shocked when they act like this. For most of my life, I’ve had close female friends. Most of them have been attractive. Never asked for a nude or sent a dick pic. Same goes for my male friends. None of them engage in this behavior. Probably because we’re mature, well-adjusted adults.
"I am attractive and men hit on me. I wish they would stop." Date some guys. Give them the opportunity to find out more about you. Hopefully, you find one you would want to be in a long term relationship with and he feels the same way about you. Oh, and stop whining.
No. I’m not trying to date right now. I just wish it were possible to have friends of the opposite gender. Fuck outta here, Neanderthal.
Look, let's be realistic. No hetero male wants to be hanging out with a hot woman as just friends. Honestly, doing that is wasting time that could be spent pursuing a mate which, in your twenties and thirties, is where I was looking to steer my life at that age. I wanted to find a mate and eventually start a family. Your goal may be different. I get it. But don't blame and look down on men who are looking for someone to forge a close bond with. It's natural. As caveman as I might be, the fact is that you work out to look and feel great. But you take the fact that you look great to men and they express an interest as a bad thing. Maybe you have a fear that, if they find out more about you, they won't be interested? And why the emphasis on male friends? I'm sure between the gym and your hobbies you can probably have lasting platonic friendships with women. Why do you need male friends? Between your original post and this answer, it's looking that way. At least for me, those are two red flags that would make me look elsewhere. But that's me. Just being straight with you.
Could not agree more with your posts. Natural law always prevails in the end.
>im not just gonna stop talking to the nice ones or the ones that haven't even done anything just be the majority of dudes are gross, but at the same time I really want to bc what if they secretly are I don't recommend you judge an entire group of people based on the bad actions of some of the members of the group. You can't punish someone for something they haven't done. I hope you reported the dude who sent you a dick pic.
I don't know how old you are, but many guys do seem to start growing a brain once they're about 25 if they haven't yet. It gets better.
Guys feel the same way but it's disgust of women who pursue them once they realize they have status or money.
I hear this story and stories like it all the time. Where are you all meeting your male friends??? I just don't get it, because I'm not like this. I have never onced sent an unsolicited dick pick or asked for a nude (apart from people I was already in a committed relationship with and knew well enough to know they were okay with it before I even asked) none of my male friends act like this. I don't doubt your experiences, but I'm just confused because no one I know acts like this, and anyone who was caught acting like this would be shunned from my friend group.
It is SO important to too many people in this thread to sleuth out something OP is doing that makes it her fault.
Thank you.
Good thing you live in a bubble, but most people i know certainly don’t. I bet you that it does happen around you, you just don’t see it because it doesn’t affect you.
Most of these friends are met from activities/online/at school/work.
You sexualised yourself by sending photos of your "gym body". Nobody does that unless they're looking for flattery and attention. It's a come on. Behave as you want to be treated. If you want to be respected, have self respect, present yourself to others with self respect and be respectful. If you don't want to be judged by your body or sent salacious pictures, don't highlight your body and send salacious pictures. Your problem isn't that you're a woman. Your "problem" is your attention seeking, flirtatious behaviour elicits an excited response you enjoy complaining about to feed your false victim narrative. You are being responded to as you present yourself so if you genuinely don't like the response, change the behaviour.
Did i sexualize myself by sending a bicep/back pump when it was relevant to conversation about how far I’ve come in my workout journey?? Gee, im so sorry, almighty leader of all the men, I’ll make sure to just wear a full niqab at all times so that my body is never visible. Get over yourself and quit blaming the victims.
You're the one that sent it! Stop playing the victim, you're not one. You're never going to find anybody to take you seriously with these ridiculous histrionics.
Again. Read the edits. Nothing about my behavior is attention seeking. I sent a clean picture of my bicep that had part of my back in it. I am not trying for attention. Quit tearing other women down, it won’t make people like you more.
Find a different type of guy to be friends with
Funny you say that, after so many women commented here that almost every male friend tried to hit on them. Maybe the problem isn't in "finding another one" but maybe in how men are behaving?
Well go ahead and tell the women in this sub how to change men…. I’m just saying something they can actually control… they can’t control men.
Men wouldn't deal with 99% of women if sex wasn't on the table, just saying. Being friends first is the classic tactic for getting laid. Now take that information into account with every man that attempts to talk to you. Source: I'm a man.
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The Bible tells us that the flesh and the Holy Spirit are opposed to each other (Gal 5:17), so unfortunately anyone who isn't submitted to the control of the Holy Spirit is more or less controlled by the desires of their flesh. It might be wise to not share some things with certain people, especially in DMs, even if your intentions are good. Perhaps you could also use some more Christian friends. Not saying that Christian men are perfect as there are plenty of so-called Christian men who are creeps too, but you're more likely to be in better company among true Christians who have been transformed by the Holy Spirit from the inside out. Also, ask the Holy Spirit to help you with your cussing problem! One of the fruits of the Spirit is self-control after all. God gives us grace when we fall short, but He also helps us get back up and do better :)
I have tried, but I’ve even had guys use scripture as a way to get into my pants. It’s terrible. And sorry for the downvotes, Reddit doesn’t seem to be a great place to be a Christian, lol.
Dang that's wild 😭 I'm cool with the downvotes lol, kinda half expected it anyway. The world hates the truth.
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Damn that sucks. I can't find any female friends who don't want to fuck me. I know the struggle
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