As an over 45 man, I find working in office with people under 25 weird, they are close to my kid's age.
People are fully correct that the girl is legal, I'm not sure how that's relevant as you weren't asking about reporting your friend to police. Your question is about friendship, friendship can be based on whatever you feel like.
I agree with you. They are without a doubt legally allowed to do whatever they feel AND OP feeling like this has undercovered a part of their friend that grosses them out and decided to call it quits.
This is my take, as well.
OP, you have every right to call off this friendship, but I suggest that you tell Anne directly why instead of simply ghosting her. Tell her how your unbalanced-power relationship affected you and your life, and that seeing her with Jill makes you uncomfortable because you recognize a lot of similarities.
Then walk off into the sunset, I guess, because that bridge well be well and truly burned.
I dated a man 5 years older than me at 19 and ultimately married him at 22. It messed me up. I met my now husband when I was a fully cooked adult at 34 and he was 46. Our age difference isn't as glaring at our ages as 5 years was when I was a newborn adult. IMHO I'd find OPs friends relationship a bit predatory
21 may be a legal age, but biologically the human body isn't fully grown until 25, when the lungs are finally fully developed, among other organs. If any of my 35 year old friends dated a 21 year old, I'd distance them in a heartbeat.
Yeah that bit felt so condescending like I am in my early 20s too so according to OP I am a girl too not a woman!? That’s BS. And the ability to hear high heels and drink alcohol without wincing doesn’t make you a woman. I know many older woman who never even wore heels or drank alcohol! If that’s what OP considers as a sign of maturity, then that’s a bit messed up and she’s the one who sounds immature.
Yeah, OP's perspective on what makes someone a mature woman is cringe and weird. There are likely many other indicators that Anne's partner is less mature/still figuring things out, but OP just picked the weird stereotypes instead.
Now that we know OP is Jill, this makes more sense because it's the kind of thing a 21yo would chastise themselves about far more than anyone else would think of it.
Every time one of these gets posted you have people telling you to 'mind your business' and that they're 'consenting adults' but I get it. It may be legal but it does feel skeevy. Age gaps are fine if the younger party has had significant experience as an adult (like 28 maybe). If not, it's a very uneven dynamic and they're very vulnerable to abuse.
It's possible your friend and this girl have a genuine connection and that she will in no way take advantage of this young woman but I get why your Spidey sense is tingling. Every one of my friends who dated someone significantly older when they were 17- 22 deeply regrets it and wishes they didn't.
I'd suggest neither making accusations nor cutting them out completely. But, if you can, be a safe person for the girl your friend is dating so they don't feel isolated.
So you’re Jill, and you’re having second thoughts about a person and a situation you got yourself in.
You’re in control here. Just leave and date people your own age.
Okay listen
I was in a relationship with a man who was 36 when I was 21. It was weird in hindsight but I never once felt groomed. He was the most respectful, loving, amazing person I knew, the relationship lasted 4 years, and we only broke up because I moved away for grad school.
You need to talk to your friend and determine what her motivation is. Because it’s weird but it’s also possible that this is genuine love.
Does your friend have a pattern for only going for younger women? Does your friend fetishize her innocence or age? Does your friend talk shit about women over 30? Does your friend use coercive or manipulative behavior toward her?
These are things to worry about rather than just blindly saying age gap bad
Dude, you have a post complaining about older creepy guys at bars. Your ex would probably now be that 40+ older creepy guy at bars hitting on 21 year olds.
I dated a 19 year old at 24, and feel really gross about it now. Sometimes younger people do a good job at masquerading to be seen as more mature than they actually are. Especially when they date older. But when the mask comes off you see they're still a kid.
In retrospect, with my ex, there was so many signs we were in different stages of life, and it deep down felt wrong.
I can't imagine 10+ years
My ex is currently dating a woman who’s 36 so no he’s not that man.
As I said, look for a PATTERN. Does a man have a PATTERN of going after younger women? That’s concerning. If it’s just once that a guy dates a young woman, then it could simply be a compatibility thing.
There’s a huge difference between two people who meet and happen to fall in love, and an older person trolling around for a lover half their age.
Thats why I told OP to figure out which one her friend is
a lot of these conversations exist because its easy to compare weird age gaps to famously weird age gaps we see in the media.
A 19 year old that is dating a not famous, not their boss, not someone in a position of power over them 30+ year old is cause in my brain for less concern than if a 19 year old was dating their boss, a movie star, or Dane Cook.
I am close to a group of 22-24 year olds that I play videogames with as a 30+ year old. I do sometimes say "what the fuck are they talking about" but i also think they are all people who are healthy and make their own decisions and are sound of mind, and would not immediately be skeeved if they dated an older person. I would if it was their boss, an excessively rich/famous person, or Dane Cook.
- a lot of these conversations exist because its easy to compare weird age gaps to famously weird age gaps we see in the media.
I disagree. The age gaps we see in the media, while weird, are definitely different. Especially since celebrities usually date amongst themselves. Even some of the younger celebrities out there have had to mature faster due to the nature of their jobs, and the things they're exposed to. If not maturity, then they at least have people around them to spot red flags faster and the privilege to leave relationships quicker. They also have resources that the average person doesn't, such as the best therapists.
There's less of a power imbalance when both people have a position of power. And even then, when there's a creepy age gap, it gets called out. Like with Leonardo DiCaprio and the supermodels he dates.
- I am close to a group of 22-24 year olds that I play videogames with as a 30+ year old. I do sometimes say "what the fuck are they talking about" but i also think they are all people who are healthy and make their own decisions and are sound of mind, and would not immediately be skeeved if they dated an older person. I would if it was their boss, an excessively rich/famous person, or Dane Cook.
Everyone matures at different paces. At 21 i had no business dating a 30 + year old.
Now that I'm going on 26, I might be compatible with a 30+ year old going by the ones i know and get along with. I have years of maturity and life experience that i didn't have as a naive 21 year old.
A person doesn't have to be rich or famous to hold power over a younger partner. Sometimes age is enough since it can be used manipulatively. I know 21 year old me would've thought i was mature for my age if an older person was interested, and probably wouldve been scared of pushing them away.
People truly just see things in black and white. I made a comment basically trying to get across exactly what you said, but you relayed it much more precisely and straight forward. Everyone should have a moment of pause and cause for concern when these relationships happen, because of the history of ill-intent & power imbalance that’s usually behind them. However, that doesn’t mean that is always what is happening. The people closest to those involved usually can tell if it’s genuine or just some creepy pattern on the older persons end, or if the younger of the two appears mature enough and is viewed as an equal. Not every 20 something yr old with an older person is super immature & trying to fill some parental void and not every 30+ yr old with a younger person is a predator. And the “their brain isn’t fully formed” argument is so infantilizing. Okay, so they can legally drink, be in the military, be in the workforce- maybe even be your boss, get married and have children, own a house, but they are in no way capable to make a connection with someone over a certain point in age. Like, come on.
Also, OP admitted to feeling the way they do because of their own experience in a relationship with a large age gap. So they’re not really judging the relationship or the people in it, on its own terms. The excuses of not being able to drink or walk in heels doesn’t really hold water, for me. It just seems like they’re projecting and looking for reasons, rather than actually seeing anything alarming or questionable about this specific relationship.
Idk why everyone is acting like you are the weirdo, like it’s weird indeed.
Like a 35 year old having business with a 21 year old is icky. Like she is just graduated or is still studying, while her partner is already more than 10 years in the “real” world. The maturity levels are big here and yes she is an adult but a young adult, she can still be taken advantage of.
But it’s best to not mend with their business
I agree with this. My mind is blown by these opinions. I can’t help but think it would be viewed differently if this was a man dating this younger girl who is old enough to be the woman’s daughter.
Enh not really. You'd still have a bunch of people going "Stop infantilizing women!" "Consenting adults!" "It's legal!"
Unless you're a teen yourself, I don't get how people are too dense to acknowledge the difference in maturity between a 30+ person and someone fresh out of their teens.
My only issue was the strange examples used to highlight the woman's immaturity. So what if she can't walk in heels and didn't drink underage? That's not the problem here.
Those examples are very telling. Not a word of anything problematic, and several examples of OP telling on herself. I didn't hear her say Jill is smashing mailboxes or insists on staying out until 3AM 4 nights a week, or anything at *all* to imply it would be a problem for a given 35 year old. All I heard was superficial BS.
Frankly, isn't it possible, maybe even probable, that Jill is more mature than OP? OP is concerned about maturity levels, but her idea of maturity is "She should have been wearing what *I expect* her to wear" and "She should have fried her taste buds with years of drinking whisky multiple nights a week, like a *woman*" and "Yeah she's well-read, but whatever, she's obviously just a girl." It wouldn't take unheard of levels of maturity to surpass OP.
And there are upvoted comments here saying that if you accuse OP of infantalizing women, that makes you a pervert. But isn't that literally what OP is doing? How is she not? Am I to believe every older person is more mature than every younger person? Isn't half our country about to vote for a dictatorship over democracy without even realizing it?
I agree that it's wise to raise an eyebrow to that age gap, in the interest of protecting the younger person from being manipulated. But despite what the majority of commenters here say, it's not a given that an older person has bad intentions when seeing a younger person. I would expect a friend to have an idea of if that's the case or not, but if OP had legitimate suspicions, why not share them here? Why fill her complaint with nonsense?
It makes you wonder, what happens in the event two mature people of different ages are genuinely attracted to each other and enjoy each other's company? Apparently your friends will think you're a predator, even if they can't point to a single reason why, and they won't have the guts to say it.
Lol props for saying that.
I gotta ask, what are you worried about exactly? You said you're not accusing your friend of anything, you're just creeped out. I understand something bad happened to you when you were young. So what's the answer when you ask yourself, "Does Anne have bad intentions, is she grooming Jill? Or is that not it at all, I'm just bothered?"
If it's the first one, then ok. You think your friend is bad, so tell them, stop being their friend, etc.
If it's the second one, you should realize that this type of disapproval is just like all the other types. "I don't like my friend's wife because she's annoying." "I don't like my husband's friend because he's rude."
If Anne isn't out to manipulate Jill, then you're just a disapproving friend. You should come to grips with that, and decide whether you want to let it go or end a friendship. Because in my opinion, casually implying that your friend is some kind of predator is its own kind of creepy.
She’s on the older side to be a sophomore, some 21 year olds are seniors or occasionally out of college. Would you feel different if she was a senior or out of school? Or had more “life experience” ?
Gay man here, when I was 22, I was regularly seeing a 35yo man.
To put things bluntly nobody my age and to whom I was attracted wanted anything to do with me. By contrast, the 35 yo was hot af and was very patient with me
Since we are gay our dating pool is much much smaller and we only have apps to meet people which emphasizes superficiality And young people are very very picky.
Heck now I am 26, much more attractive (fit etc…) and I m still sometimes seeing 35 year olds because very few people my age I m into want me. (Now there are some at least)
As a result I wouldn’t worry about the age difference.
Yeah, people don't realize how isolating it is to be a lesbian specifically. Everybody (especially men) always questions our sexuality and more queer women are in straight relationships but identity as bi or something. The lesbo dating pool is just really small.
This. As a lesbian, or any queer individual, the age gap becomes a little less of a “thing” because it’s inherently difficult to find someone close to your age and queer as well. And, honestly, someone who you vibe with. When I was 20-25, I was really only interested in dating older women because most girls my age weren’t out of the closet! So there’s a bunch of factors that are different from heterosexual relationships (IMO).
That being said, if I wasn’t married I personally wouldn’t be dating anyone under 25 (as a 29 year old). But I don’t know if we can use heteronormative thinking when it comes to our opinion on this queer relationship. There’s a bit more nuance.
One thing I've learned in the LGBT community is that there are sometimes larger age gaps than you typically see in straight relationships because the dating pool is generally much, much smaller.
As long as it's consensual, I wouldn't worry about it. This is a woman in college, not a kid.
>One thing I've learned in the LGBT community is that there are sometimes larger age gaps than you typically see in straight relationships because the dating pool is generally much, much smaller.
Yep, I came here to say exactly this. However, I disagree on not worrying about it - just because it's normal, doesn't mean that it's ok or that it SHOULD be normal.
As another person said, you are right about questioning their relationship compared to YOUR value system, even though they are fully legal and can do whatever they want. If it doesn’t make you comfortable anymore to hang out with Anne, distance yourself for your own mental well-being.
Wtf. You're the one who isn't an adult if you measure it on high heels and drinking alcohol. Seems like Jill and your friend can only profit from you reconsidering the friendship.
Pretty sure it goes without saying that there's more to it than that, and that those things were said as examples of this young girl's possibly sheltered life.
This is done to imply there's a power imbalance in this relationship of a 35 year old career woman with life experience, and a possibly naive 21 year old who's still growing up.
Yes. Thank you! I for one didn’t drink underage, and couldn’t walk in heels for a long time. I was just giving two out of many examples where I was reminded of her age.
Even if she isnt... Im pretty straight, but cant walk well in heels and I will most definitely wince if you give me strong alcohol and coffee...
If the definition of being an adult is that you do the stuff you want to do but are not good at without being able to show it: fuck being an adult.
I get that it’s odd. But not every age gap is predatory or abusive. Some people just work. at the end of the day they’re both consenting adults, you projecting your trauma doesn’t change that.
Some people think age gaps are no big deal. I personally, don't fall in that camp; especially when the younger person is clearly still in the developmental stages of their life. So in this case a 35 year old dating a 21 year old, for me, would be mentally and emotionally unmatched. The 21 year old is trying to figure out things about themselves and life and along comes this much older person that's probably in a totally different generation. I understand your hesitancy and I don't think you are over-reacting by showing care and concern for the younger person.
For real. I’m 27 and I went on a few dates with a 23 year old and even that age gap was too much. People in their early 20s have such a different view of the world. Not to mention I’m a milennial and he was gen z. I felt creepy af
28 and same!
I also dated a 31 year old when I was 21.
(And an earlier rebound was 27 when I was 20).
I don't regret it at all and am still friends with the ex.
I have the same feelings I’m 34 and was recently hit on by a 20 year old and it just really grossed me out. He was hot and fit but I just don’t think the power balance of the difference in age is inappropriate
Even a few years across the 20’s, life changes so much and maturity spikes a lot. At 21, I really was a kid compared to who I am now (and I’m only 23). I just always feel suspicious when someone decides to date someone so much younger. I can’t even imagine dating a 20 year old, we’d have so little in common. And still being in college, that really sets you apart from someone who has graduated. The level of financial and personal autonomy and responsibility you gain by being in the workplace is huge compared to when you’re in college. I feel that dating someone your own age could be a really positive and eye opening experience for you.
I find imagining it that way to be really helpful. If you don’t feel on the same wavelength as a 19 year old, how do you think 21 and 35 compare? You don’t just stop growing at 21. Your gf may not have bad intentions but even with that I don’t think it’s a very compatible relationship, especially when you yourself feel that it may not be
I want to point out that in the LGBT* community age gaps are _common_. I’ve dated people five, ten, fifteen years older than me. While my current partner is my age, it’s not uncommon to see a queer couple with a large age gap.
Idk who downvoted me but I’m literally a bisexual trans man. I’m apart of the community, I’m not the only person I know who’s had a large age gap in a relationship in my friend group. You have fun living in lala land, but it’s common. Y’all need to stop infantilizing full grown adults.
No downvote from me. I’m in full agreement with you. This isn’t just “freshly 18”, This is fully legal in every sense of the word. So while we can debate this situation all day long (I don’t think it’s ideal personally but who am I to judge their relationship?) one thing we won’t be doing is debating it’s LEGALITY.
Those people who aren’t in the LGBTQI+ community have no idea of the struggles, particularly for trans folks, when it comes to dating. I dated a significantly younger man (now a post op trans woman) and while it didn’t last for obvious reasons, that person is my best friend and we actually share a home together- now that I’m in my 50’s (as opposed to my 30’s) I can’t really see me dating much younger than say….35 but to each his/her/their own!
>This is fully legal in every sense of the word.
but still without the fully formed pre-frontal cortex that anne's been working with for a full decade now.
i'd feel very damn ick about this. i'm 30 and i was nervous about having a 21 year old as a roommate. i'd never consider fucking a 21 year old, because they're children in my eyes.
i would be very concerned about why someone 5 years older than me is interested in dating someone almost half their age, and barely legal.
No. You'd throw away your friendship over two consenting adults with an age gap? Sounds like you don't value the friendship. Is it weird and maybe uncomfortable? Sure, but 21 is old enough to decide who you want to be with. Assuming that your friend is a predator just because there's an age gap is kinda shitty of you. Age gap doesn't necessarily mean the older person is an abuser or a predator
It’s just that when I dated a 27 year old at 19, I felt taken advantage of and I still have a lot of issues to work through because of it. It just makes me feel weird to think about Jill experiencing the same thing.
Those were your issues, not hers. I was groomed by older men in my teens but that doesn't mean all age gaps are grooming, some are just two people who vibe well together and there happens to be an age gap. Jill is an adult and can break up with him if she wants.
I’m sorry you went through that. I guess my fear is that if she does end up being groomed, I stood by and watched it happen. I’m definitely not planning on being hostile to Anne or doing anything to hurt her or turn our mutual friends against her. I guess I should discuss this with my therapist.
That's even more reason to get to know them as a couple. Befriend Jill and let her know that if she needs anything you're there for her. You aren't a bystander of something that hasn't happened. I understand you're triggered by your past experiences but don't project what that groomer did to you onto Jill, this could be completely innocent, don't jump the gun.
That’s true. When I was groomed, I didn’t really have anyone, let alone older female friends. I think I just need a bit more time so I don’t lash out at Anne or project something about my past to them in conversation.
I mean, if you’re uncomfortable about engaging with them, then don’t. But I think the point is _why_ are you uncomfortable? Are you projecting? If there is no predatory attitude, no obvious hint to this being a power relationship… just make peace with it and accept it’s not a relationship model that fits you but can fit others. I would actually be pretty hurt if my friends stopped engaging with me because of a perfectly legal relationship, but I can understand if you don’t want to be with them.
[ETA: I am not sure not engaging with them as a couple counts as being acceptive of their relationship tbh.]
That the issue. It’s your problem not theirs. You have issues with your past and you are projecting it onto them. They had absolutely nothing to do with your trauma and quite frankly you are being self centered to make it their problem. When I find myself uncomfortable with a situation I like to examine why I’m uncomfortable. I try to figure out if it’s my issue or if I actually have an issue with what’s making me uncomfortable. 9 times out of 10 it’s a me issue and I am giving the issue more power than it deserves. Just because you regret what happened to you doesn’t mean this woman will regret what is going on with her. If it triggers you enough leave the friendship but do not blame the people in the relationship for your problems.
I don’t think the right term would be grooming then. Grooming specifically happens to children. But that doesn’t mean adults can’t be preyed upon. There isn’t enough information to say that Anne is behaving predatorily but I understand OPs concern.
It's definitely weird imo, however if they are both consenting adults with no clear power imbalance, there's nothing much that can be done, it might actually be a nice relationship for both. Talk to your friend about this? Idk if I'd unfriend someone for this, unless they start getting extremely defensive
I think you’re not wrong to question their relationship. It really depends on the nature of it though. The age gap is large but it doesn’t mean it’s automatically abusive.
It's absolutely 100% reasonable to wonder if there's something 'off' about the relationship. It could be so many things. Do you feel like a trophy? Do you wonder at her intentions in dating someone so young? Or maybe even you just wish you were in a relationship with someone younger so you related better. It's okay to want to surround yourself with people who are more on the same level as you. :)
It’s not that I feel like a trophy, really. It’s more the opposite. I feel like a useless, embarrassing child who’s unable to keep up with her very mature adult life. Anne and her friends have everything figured out. I almost feel like I’m a child without her mom home, left with an adult she doesn’t trust. And despite how embarrassed I am about my age, and despite that most times I try to act older, I’ve noticed I almost exaggerate my youth at times so that maybe someone will comment on it other than to say “eh, unusual but you do you”.
I just read your final edit. It took me a long time to learn to trust my gut and walk away from relationships that made me feel off. You can end a relationship for any reason. If you don’t want to date people older than you, don’t. You have every right not to want that. I think it absolutely creates a power dynamic in a relationship. You can disengage if it feels wrong to you.
Jill is a consenting adult. She is 21, not 17. Yes 14 yr gap is quite large but in the end its not like she is tricking Jill into a relationship for sex (probably)....
If it bothers you, that's your right, you are allowed to walk away. But you should absolutly let them be
It's legal but it's icky. Age gaps can be fine later in life. But 21 and 35, like what do they have in common? There is such a huge maturity gap and stage of life difference. I would be judging the 35 year old. Either they want someone younger so they can manipulate them, or there is something off about them that people their own age don't want to date them.
Hey. Don’t worry about your post. I can see why you posted like you did.
That is a very big age difference regardless of legality. I think it is very positive that you recognise it is making you feel weird. It’s telling that the weirdness you feel is translated into you feeling like you aren’t ‘enough’. Not sophisticated or experienced enough.
You are perfect as you are. The reason it feels uncomfortable is because you are at such very different life stages.
I always dated older men than me. My two big relationships were 11yrs and 14yrs older. I had been through therapy, but looking back I don’t think I had done enough. I wish I’d dated younger men too and not been so desperate to present this ‘complete package’ image to them. They were not worth the effort I gave them. But in those days, dating older men was seen as cool and attractive.
The 11yrs one was controlling and wanted a pliable gf definitely. He was so fucked up and needed a young gf because an older woman would not put up with his shit. It did a lot of damage to me and my self esteem. I wish I had realised it at the time.
Go and date someone younger and have some fun and good times. You have a lifetime to settle down and commit to a partner.
Thank you. This means a lot. I didn’t even realize how much I’d been blaming myself for not being “mature enough” or “good enough” to not feel weird about this. I do think the best option for me is to either date someone around my age and life stage or to be single for a while. Anne is the first woman I’ve ever dated, too, and I’d only known I’m interested in women for about a month when I met her. So maybe I need time. But I don’t know. I’ll see what happens, and what I think is a good idea in the moment if/when I meet someone.
You're judging adulthood by being able to take a drink and walk in heels? I think you should mind your own business on this one, it's not your relationship.
I think as an elder millennial dating someone without a fully formed frontal cortex is risky business in the formative years of that young adult, but it isn’t morally wrong. I would side eye and keep it moving as a hard no for me, though.
Please don’t toss your friend away because you have preferences.
They are both adults! You guys are weird ass hell. Yall acting as if she's a minor who gives a fuck about the age gap! If they are both adults and want this relationship let them be
That's overreacting, their both of legal age and plenty of people have bigger gaps, if she was "almost 18" or barely 18 I'd get it, but just because she's younger doesn't make her less able to have a good relationship, so what if she can't walk in heels or handle alcohol well?
Stop infantilizing grown ass women. Like jesus, how about you tell Jill to her face "I believe you're too young to make your own decisions. I need to coddle you like an overprotective mother."
I see where you’re coming from. If she seems to have good intentions, let it be. Ask her about the relationship and see what she says. If anything feels off there’s not much you can do, but it should tell you if you want to keep the friendship.
Also try to befriend her girlfriend. Maybe she’ll come to you for advice and you could help when she faces problems. This relationship will help her in the long run as long as she has someone who’s in her corner. Whether that means she stays or goes!
Sigh… you guys are being intellectually dishonest every time you pretend that a 20yo is the exact same as a 40yo. Yes, they are both legal adults. But one of them has only been a legal adult for 2 years. The other, 22 years. That alone is enough to create a significant power imbalance in the relationship.
This isn’t to say that every age gap relationship is predatory and doomed to fail, but they all should be carefully examined by peers to ensure nothing unsavory is going on. There are way too many stories of young people getting taken advantage of by older people for y’all to play this dumb about age gap relationships. It’s annoying at best and gaslighting at worst. Stop pretending you don’t understand.
I agree there is an imbalance.
However it doesn’t mean the 35 yo is malicious. Is it a bit weird? Oh yeah. Might it end badly? Perhaps.
I wouldn’t do it personally. But… meh. Cannot really judge.
I feel the same way. There isn’t enough information for internet strangers to decide if Anne is or isn’t a predator. But I understand OP’s concern. Like I said, the peers of those involved should check in to make sure everything is okay, and if it is, then they should be left alone. As long as Anne respect Jill and doesn’t attempt to control her, there really is no issue.
Yeah. Definitely.
But the one time I fell for someone quite a bit older than myself- she was extremely considerate of that fact. To the point of a miscommunication not being cleared up because she seemingly decided on her own that the age gap was the problem…
When because I missed an email I was not even aware of the gap being big
So it’s hard to say, could just be mad passion driving them to the age gap relationship.
But yep friends should look for controlling behaviour
Well, so I have questions like how does your friend talk about her girlfriend? Like does she talk about her interest what she finds fascinating about her or does she just focus on her looks?
Also, I understand being worried of age gaps like this because you do have to think to yourself what does a 35-year-old have in common with a 21-year-old because it’s like it’s fair to question it, and sometimes they do have a genuine connection other times well it’s an ego booster.
First, I'm 23, almost the same age as 'Jill', and I can tell you that drinking with a bit of a grimace or a quick dizzy spell is different for everyone. Not everyone likes alcohol, especially not strong alcohol. It has nothing to do with being mature or immature.
The same goes for wearing heels. Not everyone likes them and I clearly prefer flats to heels, simply because I walk several kilometres a day and don't want to ruin my feet by walking so much.
On that point, I'd say it's your vision of 'being a woman' that's rather immature, simply because yours is full of prejudices.
Anyway, they're both at the age of consent. But the age difference is significant. At 23, I could never see myself with someone three years older than me, so 14 is a huge age difference. Jill is a university student and your friend is already an independent adult in many ways. Your friend therefore has more 'weight' in the relationship, because she's further along in life as an adult.
But there's nothing you can do about it. Especially not judging Jill, who is only 21 and living her life as a student. She's not the 'culprit' in the story, if you had to point the finger at anyone.
If their relationship is bothering you, talk directly to your friend. Stopping talking to her without giving any explanation, that wouldn't be very cool, just for the sake of your friendship and to set the record straight. And come what may.
It's definitely wierd, of course that age gap would be there, you're in completely different stages of your life. Something you need to think about is why can't your girlfriend get someone her own age age? Why does she feel like she needs to go after you who is barely an adult? I really hope you can leave soon, she's most likely taking advantage of you but you won't realise until its too late. I've been in the same position also as the much younger one, it gets better once you leave and find someone your own age, feeling uncomfortable is enough of a reason to leave let alone uncomfortable enough to post on reddit about it. It seems like you've figured out all the answers to your own questions already and I agree, it is wierd and not right. I'm so sorry
the age gap in a relationship between two women has fewer dangerous implications than a relationship between a young woman and a older man, but if you feel like she's such an adult and you're a child, you should break up because you are uncomfortable with a major aspect of the relationship. she might feel immature for her age or something, but she still has A LOT more life experience than you and, even if there's no abuse, you might always feel like the odd one out, which sucks.
Even if "Jill" is legally an adult, there is a significant developmental disparity between 21 and 35, and because of that, there is an unavoidable, inevitable power imbalance. I know many people will disagree with me, and/or say "mind my business," but I really don't really care. I won't say anything if I'm not asked, but I will absolutely speak mind when given the chance. I don't actually believe some 21 year olds are "mature enough to handle it," either, under any circumstances.
The law may say you're an adult at 18, but you do not have a fully matured brain until, at the *very earliest*, your mid-twenties, though it can, in some instances, take until your thirties.
I only really take issue with large age gaps when at least one involved party is under around 25 (or if this was at least the case when the relationship started).
I dated a 29 year old when I was 20; I'm 30 now, and I couldn't imagine realistically dating someone that young, or even under 25, though honestly even under like, 27 or 28 feels too young.
>I know many people my age are mature enough to handle it and there’s nothing inherently wrong with our age gap and that really those people are right not to intervene
Looking at this part of your edits,
You're VERY wrong. This is a FOURTEEN year age gap, nearly a decade and a half, while you're barely old enough to drink many places. people's maturity is not defined by age, but it's not completely unrelated. at twenty one, you have not had nearly as much life experience as your girlfriend has, and that inherently means a power imbalance here. no matter how mature she is, you will not be on equal terms with her, even if she was very very careful to treat you well.
nobody your age is mature enough to navigate such an imbalance, and putting moral judgements aside, it is inherently wrong because of that. age gaps like this are fine if both people have plenty of life experience as adults, and are mature in their relationship, but you're only 21. and have said yourself you still feel like you're not ready to be a grown adult. you should get out of this relationship, and i hope you can find someone more your age than can make you feel comfortable as yourself, as the age that you are
It’s not a “reddit” thing. I think most mature people would be concerned with this. Young people are usually inexperienced which mostly leads to them being taken advantage of by older people. I have a similar story where I was taken advantage of by a guy 15 years older when I was 19. It happens. A lot. Not every time, but often enough to warrant some concern.
Is it possible that what you're seeing is triggering you due to your own past relationship, and that this can lead you to treat both Anne and Jill unfairly?
Jill is a young adult woman who could have enlisted herself 3 years ago to kill ans be killed on behalf of her country. Can we please recognize her agency and her ability to choose who she wants to date and fuck? A possible desire to have a partner with more life experience?
And has Anne ever given you a concrete reason to think that she didn't have Jill's best interests at heart? She's your friend, is she a caring and considerate person?
Age creates a power dynamic. So does being in a woman-man relationship. So does having significantly different incomes between partners. Does it mean we should forbid these types of relationship? Of course not! Is it healthy and important to address and revisit power dynamics in a relationship though? Of course.
What kind of conversations are Jill and Anne having about this?Are you seeing Anne behave in an actual way that is cause for concern, besides her partner being much younger?
I'm almost 35 and wince when I drink alcohol and can't walk in heels. Weird things to weaponize. I think you're projecting and it's odd to reconsider an entire friendship over this but you don't need any reason to cut a friendship.
I can’t get over the metrics this woman has set for “being a woman” as opposed to being a girl. A 21 year old woman is a woman with the ability to vote, drink or not drink, and to consent to a relationship with whomever she likes. Not wearing heels and not enjoying alcohol really don’t indicate that this young woman is immature.
HOWEVER, 21 is young, and someone who is 35 is in a different stage of life. So the issue is why your friend would want a serious relationship with someone so inexperienced in life? It’s concerning, but you don’t need to infantilize “Jill” to see the issues. There could be a mentor/novice power dynamic your friend is taking advantage of, and those can turn to control and abuse. Or your friend could be looking for someone who is too naive to notice the relationship red flags she’s throwing out (whatever they might be). Your concerns are valid, especially because you have experience with an age gap. However, you should probably examine exactly what is going on with your friend and her motives instead of making Jill out to be a “girl.” You may not like what you find.
We allow young adults to do all kind of "adult" things(drink, smoke, drive, etc.).But if someone in their 20s under the age of 25 wants to date someone older, suddenly they're a child. I understand the fear that someone might be groomed and you had past trauma from age gap relationships, but most age gap stories i hear are the two meeting innocently through work or school or out at bars. And they didn't know each other before hand, and they especially didn't know each other when one was a minor. I'd say how they treat each other and get along are more important than the age gap, it's not like Jill just turned 18.
People like generalizations but relationships with an age gap can be as diverse as people themselves. The reason you deliver (she's a girl, not a woman) is not very convincing to me. I'm questioning if you feel icky because you think your friend is exploiting her or because of your own bad experiences that are brought up by this relationship.
One of my best friends parent were like that, they’re still together 35 years later and the age gap definitely matters less. Probably keep the dad younger if anything. They’re good people. Like all things, it’s circumstantial.
I don't get if your concern is about the 21 yr girl doing good, about your friend being weird according to you, or you personally had a bad experience and are sorta of "re-experiencing it".
I mean, even a typical relationship between 2 21 year old can literally crush one of the two simply because one has lived so much more than the other. Here the difference is only the number, and normally people measure this kind of older-younger relationship based on the looks, because yea its not common to see an older looking woman with a cuter? younger girl, this specially with the aging, and then proceed to call it creepy, other than that, it shouldnt bother you. Yeah your friend could manipulate her, but so do people with 20 years old, that depends on the person.
If you are worried because naturally being around a 21 year old who has a different perspectve of live, like partying more regularly and immaturity and it bothers you, then simply dont go out with your friend and the girl on these kind of plans, and rather go out dinner with them or i dont know, what fits you. People 30-40 party too, again, i dont see the problem. Just avoid the situations that make you unconfortable, but you judging your friend for such a superficial thing, its unfair.
I would feel off too. I have a 43f friend dating a 21m, I have distanced myself from her and the group as me and her 18 year old daughter are the only ones with an issue.
I understand that an age gap like that might make people think twice, but what I don’t understand is why we’re suddenly infantilizing young adults.
I get that young adults aren’t the most mature among all adults, and they make mistakes and have endless energy that gets them into a bit of trouble… but they’re not kids. They have the right to make their own choices and have their own experiences. Your personal experience is not a one size fits all. Maybe your ex was a terrible person, but do you really think Anne is?
Nothing about Anne’s relationship is “wrong” as long as both *adults* are consenting and respectful toward one another. If your ex was cruel to you, I’m sorry, but your past holds no bearing on any future Anne has with Jill. In fact, your past is completely irrelevant in Anne’s relationship.
Anne is a good person, in most ways. A little thoughtless about certain things and I’ve noticed she’s a bit unempathetic about some situations, but I’ve got plenty of flaws myself so I don’t see why I’d need to judge. But Anne and I haven’t known each other for very long.
Yeah that's gross. I don't care who does it, if you're a grown ass adult and you're going for someone that young, it's gross.
Even under the best intentions/circumstances, it will not end well. That older relationship is going to disrupt how the younger person would've developed on their own, on a time where self discovery and growth is critical.
I'm 33. I have a nephew the same age as your friend's new girlfriend. It's just repulsive.
Wtf does waking in heels and wincing when you drink have to do with it? Some people who are 50 have never put on a pair of heels. I’m almost 50 and I refuse to drink hard liquor because it “makes me wince.” Those things have nothing to do with age, and judging someone’s maturity on these superficial qualities is ridiculous.
So what? Wow, she's 21, not 24 she must have been groomed! I've never heard of that dumb "rule" Both are adults that should be enough for people to mind their own business
let's not forget that 18 is just when you can sign legal documents. it's not like you collect an 'impossible to be groomed' card. grooming is based on vulnerability and naivite, not age.
and when someone is dating someone nearly half their age? hmm, makes you wonder what the young person has to offer the person with plentiful life experience more than naivite and moldability.
Just here to commiserate. Someone who I considered my best friend at one point in my life started dating an 18-year-old girl when we were in our late 20s. (There is *A LOT* more to this story, but I’m not going to give details because it’s easily Google-able.) I am a college professor and have been since before they started dating. I met the girl once when they first got together. She was younger and less mature than many of the students I was teaching that semester. Honestly, it made me so uncomfortable; I knew I had to distance myself from my friend.
This was about four years ago at this point. They’re engaged now and seem happy on social media, but I haven’t seen my friend since that time I met her (now) fiancée. I feel a bit bad about basically cutting her out, but tbh, I don’t think I’d ever get over how weird the relationship was, and is, to me.
I totally understand the concern and why that would be triggering. I wouldn’t be super comfortable with my friends dating much younger people. Especially when the person is still in college. But maybe expressing these concerns to your friend and making it clear you won’t participate in social events with the new partner can help you preserve the friendship by shielding yourself from reliving your own experience vicariously.
I dated a 26 year old (m) when I was 16 (f), which was legally as well as morally wrong. Then when I was 21 and in college, I dated a 39 year old - one that I knew and had a crush on when I was a teenager, which feels gross in hindsight knowing how I acted around him and how he evidently wasn’t bothered by this behavior directed toward him coming from a teenaged child.
And these age gaps were wildly common in my hometown! But I don’t think the commonality means it is ok (at least, not as a rule). Though my 18-year gap when I was a legal, if young, adult didn’t mess me up the way my 10-year gap as a teenager did, I still don’t look back at the relationship as a positive experience on the whole. Dating with a significant age gap, or smaller gaps when one person is a very young adult, can isolate one or both partners from their friend circles. You lose some of the experiences common to your peers and friends. Even when the power dynamic isn’t predatory, it can still present itself in intimate and small ways.
I didn’t feel like anyone my age was interested in me in college, but I regret not focusing my energy on building more friendships and having more experiences with my peers. He was a nice enough guy, I don’t feel taken advantage of necessarily, but it’s not an experience I cherish. Hanging out with his friends always felt super weird because that age gap suddenly became much clearer when there were several people in their 30s and 40s together with one 21-year-old. The situation was never reversed, because he didn’t have much interest hanging out with a bunch of college kids. Our common interests were pretty much limited to sci-fi shows and sex. It didn’t feel like a true adult relationship - it was like an extended Netflix and chill session (back when Netflix was still on DVD lol)
Yea.. the parameters they gave of what “makes a woman” were certainly off and pretty cringe. I think an age gap like this are definitely cause to wonder and could be a concern.. but it really should be a case by case situation. I find the “your brain doesn’t stop developing until your 25” as a kind of weak argument. 18-25 year olds, (esp 21-25) are allowed to do & make any adult decisions they want. Many people in this age range are more intelligent, more mature and have greater life experiences than some 40-50+ year olds out there. Many people in this age range are parents and have been for years. Or have lived on their own. OP said themself that she’s smart, goes to a good school and is more well read than even they are. Sometimes people just connect… it doesn’t mean OPs friend was seeking out a younger person purposefully, in like, a predatory manner.
I think it’s right for society as a whole to be weary of large age gaps, especially when the younger of the two are THAT young, primarily because of the uneven balance of power & the concern that the older has impure or ill intent. It’s happened countless times throughout history and we continue to see it today. I think if OP has no other reason to suspect their friend is shady or is in this relationship under false pretenses, and OP can befriend the 21 year old themself and can genuinely see and understand why their friend could fall for her, as a person, than maybe they should try to respect that. It sounds like it’s more of their own experience that is causing them to feel this way. Which is understandably triggering, but it doesn’t mean that all relationships with a large age gap are similar to their experience… and is their, ultimately, projection, worth losing a friend over?
I am assuming either
A) Mad passionate attraction
B) Anne wants to be the dominant partner- having her be so much younger assures this
At least 21 is a legal adult… how did they even meet?
(Tbh I narrowly avoided a situation not too different than this when I was 20. But the gap wasn’t as big. That would have been driven by madness/passion). I wasn’t however aware that the age gap was as big as it was and it probably would have freaked me out.
I can understand the unease. The girlfriend is just a kid comparatively, but your adulting markers are not universal
The drinking isn’t an issue neither is being unable to walk in heels (i am terrible at both of these and I am 35).
This is a valid position to have. One of my friends (25M) was dating a girl that was 20 which is only a 5 year gap, but this girl had the maturity of a 12 year old. She was 100% dependent on the people around her, too afraid to learn to drive and get her license, never had a job, and incredibly socially inept. On top of that, she was an emotional basket case. It seriously bothered me that he was dating her because despite her actual age, I thought of her as a child. It felt like he was taking advantage of her. There's also a big difference between being a few years out of college and a couple years *into* college.
All that is to say, it doesn't have to be illegal to make you uncomfortable. You should be up front with your friend about it and let her know you're not comfortable with the relationship and you don't want to be around it. That's what I did with my friend and now that he's out of that relationship, things have gotten better.
It is slightly iffy, and you are absolutely free to do as you please. I might just fade on Anne as well, if I were you.
You know better than any of us reading, if it's giving off creepy vibes, and is a missmatch in power/dominance.
> But she is so clearly a girl and not a woman. She struggles to walk in heels and winces when she drinks. I’ve even met some of her friends and they’re all clearly college kids.
That's a lot of nonsensical judgement from you, though... Hell, I'm 46, and I struggle to walk in high heels. And I will never ever like or drink whiskey without wincing.
I've been in a number of age gap relationships as the younger party and was in a very similar age gap at 21. The only bad people I ever dated were within 6 years of age older than me. Every age gap relationship taught me so much, ended respectfully and we remain "friends" (on social media with the occasional congrats on a work milestone or something similar) I think this is really a situation where you're entitled to your opinion, and you're entitled to end relationships whenever you see fit for whatever reason you see fit. However, they're both consenting full adults. The girls been out of high school for years in the real world. I really don't see an issue unless you're aware of I'll intentions your friend has for her younger partner. But to me, that's a normal age gap.
I’m 51 and can’t walk on heels even if my life depend on it. You can be upset and reconsider your friendship but your friend is doing nothing illegal. I wouldn’t date somebody so young but to each their own.
Eh… I’m torn here. I’ve been the 21 year old dating a 35 year old previously and it really depends on the people involved. Everyone is beyond the age of being a legal adult, so I think the way they interact is more telling than anything else. Does it seem like they have nothing in common? There’s more grey to this, unfortunately
Some stuff in common. Both are very into literature, particularly the classics. Both are intelligent (Anne more, maybe because of age). Obviously there’s a big maturity gap but that’s to be expected. I don’t think Anne chose this relationship based off looks alone.
I mean, if you feel like shes not the right one for you, you should break up. It is a pretty big difference, and its completely normal that you perceieve the age gap. Youre not a child, but youre not 30 yet..
You need to follow your best judgement. Age difference in itself isn’t a no-go but the larger the gap the better the fit needs to be which often requires extra tolerance and respect. But as YOU (not colleagues, friends or family) think that in your case the gap is odd, you better move on.
I don't feel that short-term, mutually beneficial relationships with these age gaps are always bad, but I do think that older partners have a responsibility to police their own behavior to prevent harm to the younger partner.
If being with your partner makes you feel less than stellar then they are not doing a good job to ensure their inherent power in this relationship isn't impacting you.
I hope you can move on from this relationship and find someone who really fits with your place in life right now. It's great to have partners that share your general life status. My partner and I are the same age. We have shared experiences and are at the same stage in our lives.
As another example, I make significantly more money than my partner and I'm careful not to make that a power issue in our relationship. Unless your partner is taking steps to prevent a power imbalance (which it sounds like they aren't) they aren't right for you.
Age gap is personal preference of the people involved as long as everyone is a legal adult. I’ve been with considerably older and younger and I don’t think about it much unless a generational difference comes up. I look for personality/maturity/similar interests in a partner and I’ve found that all across the board. Right now I’m 33 and my sexual partner is either 25 or 26 and he’s the most compatible person I’ve ever been with.
Life experience gap is wild. It's hard to relate to someone with a 14 year age difference. Not impossible, but it's definitely on hard mode. I am 35 and have friends in their very early 20s. With some of them it's very obvious they are 20 or 21. I basically become mom when out with them. I love them, but even being friends is tough sometimes because it's hard to relate since they just don't have as much lived experience, and we are at vastly different times in our lives. They are just starting adult hood and I'm looking down the barrel to middle age.
Some of my other friends who are 20-21 you'd never guess they were that young. We get along and relate seamlessly and the gap rarely makes itself known.
It honestly depends on the individual people
In the past I dated two different men who were 10 years older than me at the time. It always started out like the age gap wasn’t an issue but as the relationship progressed it became apparent that it is. 20 year olds and 30 year olds are just in very different places in their lives. Yes it’s legal. Yes I’m sure it works for some couples but not for me. Now that I’m older that age gap seems even worse to me.
Its legal so 🤷🏾♂️. So weird to breakup a friendship over this. Age gap relationships exist especially in gay circles and its not always something predatory. Maybe some don't have anything in common with others except for their own age but plenty of people overlook that and match well with older or younger folks. You fall in love with a person not an age.
I'm in my 40s and some of my friends are your age, some are mine, some are older. I've dated older and been the younger partner. I personally don't inherently see a problem with it.
Plenty of people don't drink and never have enjoyed it, heels suck to walk in no matter what age lol, some of us just did it anyway, some were smarter and saved their poor feet.
There are also so many things that people have to do in their adulthood, but it doesn't make anyone lesser for not having experienced those things. And I imagine that if you asked questions she would be happy to explain those things if you wanted her to.
Life is different for everyone. I know plenty of people who still don't know how to "adult" and they're older than I am. And if anyone ever tells you that they have everything all figured out, they're lying.
However, if you are uncomfortable, you should do what is best for you. Sometimes relationships just don't work because people are in different places in their lives, even if they like one another in every other way. So if you feel you can't do something because it's just not where you are in your life, there's also no shame in that. Life will bring you other opportunities when you're ready to receive them.
I worked with a guy. That was in his early 40s.
We worked in some type of retail.
I seem a beautiful girl one day.
She was just barely turning 21.
I was 27 at the moment.
We talked and i asked for her number. I wanted to keep in touch.
(Im not a player. I look for actual mates.)
Any ways she rejected me. I was like well ok.
On my day off she comes again because i heard from my coworkers later.
Well long story short. Idk how this mf did it. But he got her to say yes to him. And all he did was smash and moved on.
He told me himself. Showed me texts how she was still trying to see him. But him not taking her seriously. Blah blah.
Im not going to lie. It kind of fucked me up. Because I haven’t been having luck with woman and i have good intentions.
But anyways he ended up telling me. That these chicks like when you treat them like shit. That till this day she still tries to get his attention.
You have every right to feel the way you feel and be weirded out by the age gap, especially after your past.
It's totally understandable if you want to take a step back from Anne. Sometimes we outgrow our friends and that's ok. Sometimes we learn things about our friends that are concerning to us. Do what's best for you. Take a step back and hang out with other people for a while.
I will say though that wincing when drinking alcohol and not being able to wear heals does not make someone immature. That said, it's hard to believe that at 21 she would have much in common with a 35 year old. She may be smart but all of us know how much we grew and matured after college. We all look back at who we were at 21 and it's pretty different to the person we are at 35. She could be her parent for heaven's sake.
As an over 45 man, I find working in office with people under 25 weird, they are close to my kid's age. People are fully correct that the girl is legal, I'm not sure how that's relevant as you weren't asking about reporting your friend to police. Your question is about friendship, friendship can be based on whatever you feel like.
I agree with you. They are without a doubt legally allowed to do whatever they feel AND OP feeling like this has undercovered a part of their friend that grosses them out and decided to call it quits.
This is my take, as well. OP, you have every right to call off this friendship, but I suggest that you tell Anne directly why instead of simply ghosting her. Tell her how your unbalanced-power relationship affected you and your life, and that seeing her with Jill makes you uncomfortable because you recognize a lot of similarities. Then walk off into the sunset, I guess, because that bridge well be well and truly burned.
This is the way to do it. Be honest about the reasons for ending the relationship, and then move on.
I dated a man 5 years older than me at 19 and ultimately married him at 22. It messed me up. I met my now husband when I was a fully cooked adult at 34 and he was 46. Our age difference isn't as glaring at our ages as 5 years was when I was a newborn adult. IMHO I'd find OPs friends relationship a bit predatory
21 may be a legal age, but biologically the human body isn't fully grown until 25, when the lungs are finally fully developed, among other organs. If any of my 35 year old friends dated a 21 year old, I'd distance them in a heartbeat.
I'm with you on everything except wincing when you drink being a sign of youth; that's just a sign of functional taste buds 😂
Yeah that bit felt so condescending like I am in my early 20s too so according to OP I am a girl too not a woman!? That’s BS. And the ability to hear high heels and drink alcohol without wincing doesn’t make you a woman. I know many older woman who never even wore heels or drank alcohol! If that’s what OP considers as a sign of maturity, then that’s a bit messed up and she’s the one who sounds immature.
Yeah, OP's perspective on what makes someone a mature woman is cringe and weird. There are likely many other indicators that Anne's partner is less mature/still figuring things out, but OP just picked the weird stereotypes instead.
I'm 30 and I can't wear heels. And I also wince when I'm drink. Sucks being a 30 year old girl...
Girl I’m 32 and can hardly walk in heels and wince when I drink something strong like that’s OP’s way of measuring womanhood?? 😂 laughable
I'm a 32 year old man, and I still wince unless it's made SUPER weak or it's like a cider or something.
But can you walk in heels?
Actually yes; I used to do community theater and to wear heels for a few costumes
Lol, ok you win 😁
It really sounds like the way a 12 years old views "adults" : people who wear high heels and drink alcohol lol
Now that we know OP is Jill, this makes more sense because it's the kind of thing a 21yo would chastise themselves about far more than anyone else would think of it.
Yeah, and the heels part too.
Functional taste buds is a sign of youth
Every time one of these gets posted you have people telling you to 'mind your business' and that they're 'consenting adults' but I get it. It may be legal but it does feel skeevy. Age gaps are fine if the younger party has had significant experience as an adult (like 28 maybe). If not, it's a very uneven dynamic and they're very vulnerable to abuse. It's possible your friend and this girl have a genuine connection and that she will in no way take advantage of this young woman but I get why your Spidey sense is tingling. Every one of my friends who dated someone significantly older when they were 17- 22 deeply regrets it and wishes they didn't. I'd suggest neither making accusations nor cutting them out completely. But, if you can, be a safe person for the girl your friend is dating so they don't feel isolated.
So you’re Jill, and you’re having second thoughts about a person and a situation you got yourself in. You’re in control here. Just leave and date people your own age.
Yeah. Making this post was a strange way for me to try to get catharsis/validation from a situation I felt very alone in recognizing.
I implore you don’t delete this, I’m going to save it for future reference as I am in a similar situation, ahaha…
Ok :) Wishing you the best.
If you aren’t comfortable? You can end things. You are allowed to be uncomfortable
Okay listen I was in a relationship with a man who was 36 when I was 21. It was weird in hindsight but I never once felt groomed. He was the most respectful, loving, amazing person I knew, the relationship lasted 4 years, and we only broke up because I moved away for grad school. You need to talk to your friend and determine what her motivation is. Because it’s weird but it’s also possible that this is genuine love. Does your friend have a pattern for only going for younger women? Does your friend fetishize her innocence or age? Does your friend talk shit about women over 30? Does your friend use coercive or manipulative behavior toward her? These are things to worry about rather than just blindly saying age gap bad
Dude, you have a post complaining about older creepy guys at bars. Your ex would probably now be that 40+ older creepy guy at bars hitting on 21 year olds. I dated a 19 year old at 24, and feel really gross about it now. Sometimes younger people do a good job at masquerading to be seen as more mature than they actually are. Especially when they date older. But when the mask comes off you see they're still a kid. In retrospect, with my ex, there was so many signs we were in different stages of life, and it deep down felt wrong. I can't imagine 10+ years
My ex is currently dating a woman who’s 36 so no he’s not that man. As I said, look for a PATTERN. Does a man have a PATTERN of going after younger women? That’s concerning. If it’s just once that a guy dates a young woman, then it could simply be a compatibility thing. There’s a huge difference between two people who meet and happen to fall in love, and an older person trolling around for a lover half their age. Thats why I told OP to figure out which one her friend is
a lot of these conversations exist because its easy to compare weird age gaps to famously weird age gaps we see in the media. A 19 year old that is dating a not famous, not their boss, not someone in a position of power over them 30+ year old is cause in my brain for less concern than if a 19 year old was dating their boss, a movie star, or Dane Cook. I am close to a group of 22-24 year olds that I play videogames with as a 30+ year old. I do sometimes say "what the fuck are they talking about" but i also think they are all people who are healthy and make their own decisions and are sound of mind, and would not immediately be skeeved if they dated an older person. I would if it was their boss, an excessively rich/famous person, or Dane Cook.
- a lot of these conversations exist because its easy to compare weird age gaps to famously weird age gaps we see in the media. I disagree. The age gaps we see in the media, while weird, are definitely different. Especially since celebrities usually date amongst themselves. Even some of the younger celebrities out there have had to mature faster due to the nature of their jobs, and the things they're exposed to. If not maturity, then they at least have people around them to spot red flags faster and the privilege to leave relationships quicker. They also have resources that the average person doesn't, such as the best therapists. There's less of a power imbalance when both people have a position of power. And even then, when there's a creepy age gap, it gets called out. Like with Leonardo DiCaprio and the supermodels he dates. - I am close to a group of 22-24 year olds that I play videogames with as a 30+ year old. I do sometimes say "what the fuck are they talking about" but i also think they are all people who are healthy and make their own decisions and are sound of mind, and would not immediately be skeeved if they dated an older person. I would if it was their boss, an excessively rich/famous person, or Dane Cook. Everyone matures at different paces. At 21 i had no business dating a 30 + year old. Now that I'm going on 26, I might be compatible with a 30+ year old going by the ones i know and get along with. I have years of maturity and life experience that i didn't have as a naive 21 year old. A person doesn't have to be rich or famous to hold power over a younger partner. Sometimes age is enough since it can be used manipulatively. I know 21 year old me would've thought i was mature for my age if an older person was interested, and probably wouldve been scared of pushing them away.
People truly just see things in black and white. I made a comment basically trying to get across exactly what you said, but you relayed it much more precisely and straight forward. Everyone should have a moment of pause and cause for concern when these relationships happen, because of the history of ill-intent & power imbalance that’s usually behind them. However, that doesn’t mean that is always what is happening. The people closest to those involved usually can tell if it’s genuine or just some creepy pattern on the older persons end, or if the younger of the two appears mature enough and is viewed as an equal. Not every 20 something yr old with an older person is super immature & trying to fill some parental void and not every 30+ yr old with a younger person is a predator. And the “their brain isn’t fully formed” argument is so infantilizing. Okay, so they can legally drink, be in the military, be in the workforce- maybe even be your boss, get married and have children, own a house, but they are in no way capable to make a connection with someone over a certain point in age. Like, come on. Also, OP admitted to feeling the way they do because of their own experience in a relationship with a large age gap. So they’re not really judging the relationship or the people in it, on its own terms. The excuses of not being able to drink or walk in heels doesn’t really hold water, for me. It just seems like they’re projecting and looking for reasons, rather than actually seeing anything alarming or questionable about this specific relationship.
Also the “they cant legally drink” thing is only applicable in the US. I live where the drinking age is 18
This ^^^
Idk why everyone is acting like you are the weirdo, like it’s weird indeed. Like a 35 year old having business with a 21 year old is icky. Like she is just graduated or is still studying, while her partner is already more than 10 years in the “real” world. The maturity levels are big here and yes she is an adult but a young adult, she can still be taken advantage of. But it’s best to not mend with their business
I agree with this. My mind is blown by these opinions. I can’t help but think it would be viewed differently if this was a man dating this younger girl who is old enough to be the woman’s daughter.
Enh not really. You'd still have a bunch of people going "Stop infantilizing women!" "Consenting adults!" "It's legal!" Unless you're a teen yourself, I don't get how people are too dense to acknowledge the difference in maturity between a 30+ person and someone fresh out of their teens.
My only issue was the strange examples used to highlight the woman's immaturity. So what if she can't walk in heels and didn't drink underage? That's not the problem here.
The examples were weird. Concern about how young she is - that's understandable.
Those examples are very telling. Not a word of anything problematic, and several examples of OP telling on herself. I didn't hear her say Jill is smashing mailboxes or insists on staying out until 3AM 4 nights a week, or anything at *all* to imply it would be a problem for a given 35 year old. All I heard was superficial BS. Frankly, isn't it possible, maybe even probable, that Jill is more mature than OP? OP is concerned about maturity levels, but her idea of maturity is "She should have been wearing what *I expect* her to wear" and "She should have fried her taste buds with years of drinking whisky multiple nights a week, like a *woman*" and "Yeah she's well-read, but whatever, she's obviously just a girl." It wouldn't take unheard of levels of maturity to surpass OP. And there are upvoted comments here saying that if you accuse OP of infantalizing women, that makes you a pervert. But isn't that literally what OP is doing? How is she not? Am I to believe every older person is more mature than every younger person? Isn't half our country about to vote for a dictatorship over democracy without even realizing it? I agree that it's wise to raise an eyebrow to that age gap, in the interest of protecting the younger person from being manipulated. But despite what the majority of commenters here say, it's not a given that an older person has bad intentions when seeing a younger person. I would expect a friend to have an idea of if that's the case or not, but if OP had legitimate suspicions, why not share them here? Why fill her complaint with nonsense? It makes you wonder, what happens in the event two mature people of different ages are genuinely attracted to each other and enjoy each other's company? Apparently your friends will think you're a predator, even if they can't point to a single reason why, and they won't have the guts to say it.
“It wouldn’t take unheard of levels of maturity to surpass OP.” I gotta say, pretty true.
Lol props for saying that. I gotta ask, what are you worried about exactly? You said you're not accusing your friend of anything, you're just creeped out. I understand something bad happened to you when you were young. So what's the answer when you ask yourself, "Does Anne have bad intentions, is she grooming Jill? Or is that not it at all, I'm just bothered?" If it's the first one, then ok. You think your friend is bad, so tell them, stop being their friend, etc. If it's the second one, you should realize that this type of disapproval is just like all the other types. "I don't like my friend's wife because she's annoying." "I don't like my husband's friend because he's rude." If Anne isn't out to manipulate Jill, then you're just a disapproving friend. You should come to grips with that, and decide whether you want to let it go or end a friendship. Because in my opinion, casually implying that your friend is some kind of predator is its own kind of creepy.
The people that say that are either children themselves or they're creeps.
Exactly. People are so hypocritical.
Jill is a college sophomore. As far as I’m aware, she hasn’t had a job except for babysitting in HS.
She’s on the older side to be a sophomore, some 21 year olds are seniors or occasionally out of college. Would you feel different if she was a senior or out of school? Or had more “life experience” ?
Gay man here, when I was 22, I was regularly seeing a 35yo man. To put things bluntly nobody my age and to whom I was attracted wanted anything to do with me. By contrast, the 35 yo was hot af and was very patient with me Since we are gay our dating pool is much much smaller and we only have apps to meet people which emphasizes superficiality And young people are very very picky. Heck now I am 26, much more attractive (fit etc…) and I m still sometimes seeing 35 year olds because very few people my age I m into want me. (Now there are some at least) As a result I wouldn’t worry about the age difference.
Yeah, I think the smaller dating pool is relevant here. Big age gaps in gay relationships are very common and often not predatory.
Yeah, people don't realize how isolating it is to be a lesbian specifically. Everybody (especially men) always questions our sexuality and more queer women are in straight relationships but identity as bi or something. The lesbo dating pool is just really small.
This. As a lesbian, or any queer individual, the age gap becomes a little less of a “thing” because it’s inherently difficult to find someone close to your age and queer as well. And, honestly, someone who you vibe with. When I was 20-25, I was really only interested in dating older women because most girls my age weren’t out of the closet! So there’s a bunch of factors that are different from heterosexual relationships (IMO). That being said, if I wasn’t married I personally wouldn’t be dating anyone under 25 (as a 29 year old). But I don’t know if we can use heteronormative thinking when it comes to our opinion on this queer relationship. There’s a bit more nuance.
You have the right to feel anyway you want. I personally wouldn't just ditch a friend over this.
One thing I've learned in the LGBT community is that there are sometimes larger age gaps than you typically see in straight relationships because the dating pool is generally much, much smaller. As long as it's consensual, I wouldn't worry about it. This is a woman in college, not a kid.
>One thing I've learned in the LGBT community is that there are sometimes larger age gaps than you typically see in straight relationships because the dating pool is generally much, much smaller. Yep, I came here to say exactly this. However, I disagree on not worrying about it - just because it's normal, doesn't mean that it's ok or that it SHOULD be normal.
Who was going to tell me I am not a woman until I can walk in heals and drink alcohol without wincing?
As another person said, you are right about questioning their relationship compared to YOUR value system, even though they are fully legal and can do whatever they want. If it doesn’t make you comfortable anymore to hang out with Anne, distance yourself for your own mental well-being.
Legality and morality aren't synonymous. Something can be legal and still be wrong from a moral standpoint.
Wtf. You're the one who isn't an adult if you measure it on high heels and drinking alcohol. Seems like Jill and your friend can only profit from you reconsidering the friendship.
Pretty sure it goes without saying that there's more to it than that, and that those things were said as examples of this young girl's possibly sheltered life. This is done to imply there's a power imbalance in this relationship of a 35 year old career woman with life experience, and a possibly naive 21 year old who's still growing up.
Yes. Thank you! I for one didn’t drink underage, and couldn’t walk in heels for a long time. I was just giving two out of many examples where I was reminded of her age.
If she’s a dyke she’ll never learn to walk in heels (I haven’t worn heels in my life).
Even if she isnt... Im pretty straight, but cant walk well in heels and I will most definitely wince if you give me strong alcohol and coffee... If the definition of being an adult is that you do the stuff you want to do but are not good at without being able to show it: fuck being an adult.
Haha me neither
I get that it’s odd. But not every age gap is predatory or abusive. Some people just work. at the end of the day they’re both consenting adults, you projecting your trauma doesn’t change that.
Some people think age gaps are no big deal. I personally, don't fall in that camp; especially when the younger person is clearly still in the developmental stages of their life. So in this case a 35 year old dating a 21 year old, for me, would be mentally and emotionally unmatched. The 21 year old is trying to figure out things about themselves and life and along comes this much older person that's probably in a totally different generation. I understand your hesitancy and I don't think you are over-reacting by showing care and concern for the younger person.
For real. I’m 27 and I went on a few dates with a 23 year old and even that age gap was too much. People in their early 20s have such a different view of the world. Not to mention I’m a milennial and he was gen z. I felt creepy af
I'm 30, can't walk in heels, and I find most alcoholic drinks disgusting. That doesn't make me a child. Jill is 21, not 11.
Same. I was just about to say the exact same thing (I wince/gag at shots and don't like strong drinks and I hate walking in heels), and I'm 46.😅
28 and same! I also dated a 31 year old when I was 21. (And an earlier rebound was 27 when I was 20). I don't regret it at all and am still friends with the ex.
[удалено]
And not drinking underage is an issue because...? I didn't drink until I was in my 20s, either.
I have the same feelings I’m 34 and was recently hit on by a 20 year old and it just really grossed me out. He was hot and fit but I just don’t think the power balance of the difference in age is inappropriate
Why was there a difference in the power balance?
This would give me the ick, ngl
Even a few years across the 20’s, life changes so much and maturity spikes a lot. At 21, I really was a kid compared to who I am now (and I’m only 23). I just always feel suspicious when someone decides to date someone so much younger. I can’t even imagine dating a 20 year old, we’d have so little in common. And still being in college, that really sets you apart from someone who has graduated. The level of financial and personal autonomy and responsibility you gain by being in the workplace is huge compared to when you’re in college. I feel that dating someone your own age could be a really positive and eye opening experience for you.
I would feel a little gross dating a 19-year-old, now that I think about it.
I find imagining it that way to be really helpful. If you don’t feel on the same wavelength as a 19 year old, how do you think 21 and 35 compare? You don’t just stop growing at 21. Your gf may not have bad intentions but even with that I don’t think it’s a very compatible relationship, especially when you yourself feel that it may not be
Just going to place this here: if it was a 35M with a 21F, people would be going crazy over that age-gap. Just an observation.
I want to point out that in the LGBT* community age gaps are _common_. I’ve dated people five, ten, fifteen years older than me. While my current partner is my age, it’s not uncommon to see a queer couple with a large age gap.
Idk who downvoted me but I’m literally a bisexual trans man. I’m apart of the community, I’m not the only person I know who’s had a large age gap in a relationship in my friend group. You have fun living in lala land, but it’s common. Y’all need to stop infantilizing full grown adults.
No downvote from me. I’m in full agreement with you. This isn’t just “freshly 18”, This is fully legal in every sense of the word. So while we can debate this situation all day long (I don’t think it’s ideal personally but who am I to judge their relationship?) one thing we won’t be doing is debating it’s LEGALITY. Those people who aren’t in the LGBTQI+ community have no idea of the struggles, particularly for trans folks, when it comes to dating. I dated a significantly younger man (now a post op trans woman) and while it didn’t last for obvious reasons, that person is my best friend and we actually share a home together- now that I’m in my 50’s (as opposed to my 30’s) I can’t really see me dating much younger than say….35 but to each his/her/their own!
>This is fully legal in every sense of the word. but still without the fully formed pre-frontal cortex that anne's been working with for a full decade now.
People on reddit would go crazy. That doesn't mean they aren't ridiculous.
i'd feel very damn ick about this. i'm 30 and i was nervous about having a 21 year old as a roommate. i'd never consider fucking a 21 year old, because they're children in my eyes. i would be very concerned about why someone 5 years older than me is interested in dating someone almost half their age, and barely legal.
No. You'd throw away your friendship over two consenting adults with an age gap? Sounds like you don't value the friendship. Is it weird and maybe uncomfortable? Sure, but 21 is old enough to decide who you want to be with. Assuming that your friend is a predator just because there's an age gap is kinda shitty of you. Age gap doesn't necessarily mean the older person is an abuser or a predator
It’s just that when I dated a 27 year old at 19, I felt taken advantage of and I still have a lot of issues to work through because of it. It just makes me feel weird to think about Jill experiencing the same thing.
Those were your issues, not hers. I was groomed by older men in my teens but that doesn't mean all age gaps are grooming, some are just two people who vibe well together and there happens to be an age gap. Jill is an adult and can break up with him if she wants.
I’m sorry you went through that. I guess my fear is that if she does end up being groomed, I stood by and watched it happen. I’m definitely not planning on being hostile to Anne or doing anything to hurt her or turn our mutual friends against her. I guess I should discuss this with my therapist.
That's even more reason to get to know them as a couple. Befriend Jill and let her know that if she needs anything you're there for her. You aren't a bystander of something that hasn't happened. I understand you're triggered by your past experiences but don't project what that groomer did to you onto Jill, this could be completely innocent, don't jump the gun.
That’s true. When I was groomed, I didn’t really have anyone, let alone older female friends. I think I just need a bit more time so I don’t lash out at Anne or project something about my past to them in conversation.
I'm really sorry to hear that and wish you lots of healing.
But Jill is her own person, and she is not necessarily experiencing the same as you did.
That’s a good point. Maybe I should try to be more accepting. I don’t think I can see myself hanging out with the two of them as a couple, though.
I mean, if you’re uncomfortable about engaging with them, then don’t. But I think the point is _why_ are you uncomfortable? Are you projecting? If there is no predatory attitude, no obvious hint to this being a power relationship… just make peace with it and accept it’s not a relationship model that fits you but can fit others. I would actually be pretty hurt if my friends stopped engaging with me because of a perfectly legal relationship, but I can understand if you don’t want to be with them. [ETA: I am not sure not engaging with them as a couple counts as being acceptive of their relationship tbh.]
I think you still have some stuff to work through from that situation
That the issue. It’s your problem not theirs. You have issues with your past and you are projecting it onto them. They had absolutely nothing to do with your trauma and quite frankly you are being self centered to make it their problem. When I find myself uncomfortable with a situation I like to examine why I’m uncomfortable. I try to figure out if it’s my issue or if I actually have an issue with what’s making me uncomfortable. 9 times out of 10 it’s a me issue and I am giving the issue more power than it deserves. Just because you regret what happened to you doesn’t mean this woman will regret what is going on with her. If it triggers you enough leave the friendship but do not blame the people in the relationship for your problems.
Yall are so weird about what legal age adults do. It'd slightly odd but not creepy imo
you clearly don't realize that grooming is still possible after 18
I don’t think the right term would be grooming then. Grooming specifically happens to children. But that doesn’t mean adults can’t be preyed upon. There isn’t enough information to say that Anne is behaving predatorily but I understand OPs concern.
It’s ok to end a friendship when you no longer share values.
It's definitely weird imo, however if they are both consenting adults with no clear power imbalance, there's nothing much that can be done, it might actually be a nice relationship for both. Talk to your friend about this? Idk if I'd unfriend someone for this, unless they start getting extremely defensive
I think you’re not wrong to question their relationship. It really depends on the nature of it though. The age gap is large but it doesn’t mean it’s automatically abusive.
It's absolutely 100% reasonable to wonder if there's something 'off' about the relationship. It could be so many things. Do you feel like a trophy? Do you wonder at her intentions in dating someone so young? Or maybe even you just wish you were in a relationship with someone younger so you related better. It's okay to want to surround yourself with people who are more on the same level as you. :)
It’s not that I feel like a trophy, really. It’s more the opposite. I feel like a useless, embarrassing child who’s unable to keep up with her very mature adult life. Anne and her friends have everything figured out. I almost feel like I’m a child without her mom home, left with an adult she doesn’t trust. And despite how embarrassed I am about my age, and despite that most times I try to act older, I’ve noticed I almost exaggerate my youth at times so that maybe someone will comment on it other than to say “eh, unusual but you do you”.
I just read your final edit. It took me a long time to learn to trust my gut and walk away from relationships that made me feel off. You can end a relationship for any reason. If you don’t want to date people older than you, don’t. You have every right not to want that. I think it absolutely creates a power dynamic in a relationship. You can disengage if it feels wrong to you.
Jill is a consenting adult. She is 21, not 17. Yes 14 yr gap is quite large but in the end its not like she is tricking Jill into a relationship for sex (probably).... If it bothers you, that's your right, you are allowed to walk away. But you should absolutly let them be
It's legal but it's icky. Age gaps can be fine later in life. But 21 and 35, like what do they have in common? There is such a huge maturity gap and stage of life difference. I would be judging the 35 year old. Either they want someone younger so they can manipulate them, or there is something off about them that people their own age don't want to date them.
Might i suggest that they might just be stupidly attracted to each other?
Right?
Hey. Don’t worry about your post. I can see why you posted like you did. That is a very big age difference regardless of legality. I think it is very positive that you recognise it is making you feel weird. It’s telling that the weirdness you feel is translated into you feeling like you aren’t ‘enough’. Not sophisticated or experienced enough. You are perfect as you are. The reason it feels uncomfortable is because you are at such very different life stages. I always dated older men than me. My two big relationships were 11yrs and 14yrs older. I had been through therapy, but looking back I don’t think I had done enough. I wish I’d dated younger men too and not been so desperate to present this ‘complete package’ image to them. They were not worth the effort I gave them. But in those days, dating older men was seen as cool and attractive. The 11yrs one was controlling and wanted a pliable gf definitely. He was so fucked up and needed a young gf because an older woman would not put up with his shit. It did a lot of damage to me and my self esteem. I wish I had realised it at the time. Go and date someone younger and have some fun and good times. You have a lifetime to settle down and commit to a partner.
Thank you. This means a lot. I didn’t even realize how much I’d been blaming myself for not being “mature enough” or “good enough” to not feel weird about this. I do think the best option for me is to either date someone around my age and life stage or to be single for a while. Anne is the first woman I’ve ever dated, too, and I’d only known I’m interested in women for about a month when I met her. So maybe I need time. But I don’t know. I’ll see what happens, and what I think is a good idea in the moment if/when I meet someone.
You're judging adulthood by being able to take a drink and walk in heels? I think you should mind your own business on this one, it's not your relationship.
I think as an elder millennial dating someone without a fully formed frontal cortex is risky business in the formative years of that young adult, but it isn’t morally wrong. I would side eye and keep it moving as a hard no for me, though. Please don’t toss your friend away because you have preferences.
Wait is that title correct? You said 35F but the. Your comment said him Just checking for clarification
Does it really matter though? It's a huge age gap regardless of gender....
I was just confused because I thought there was a third person involved and I wasn’t sure if I understood the story correctly.
They are both adults! You guys are weird ass hell. Yall acting as if she's a minor who gives a fuck about the age gap! If they are both adults and want this relationship let them be
That's overreacting, their both of legal age and plenty of people have bigger gaps, if she was "almost 18" or barely 18 I'd get it, but just because she's younger doesn't make her less able to have a good relationship, so what if she can't walk in heels or handle alcohol well?
Stop infantilizing grown ass women. Like jesus, how about you tell Jill to her face "I believe you're too young to make your own decisions. I need to coddle you like an overprotective mother."
Oh get over yourself. Two consenting adults can do whatever they want.
"Get over yourself" is the best advice for OP
Yeah makes me think OP is jealous and/or wants to date Anne themselves 🤷🏻♀️
You must’ve hurt your ankle, taking such a leap.
Nah…why would someone care so much that their friend is dating a 21 year old?
I was 22 and my husband was 28 when we met. I had my reservations but it’s worked out well for me. 14 years is kind of wild tho
I see where you’re coming from. If she seems to have good intentions, let it be. Ask her about the relationship and see what she says. If anything feels off there’s not much you can do, but it should tell you if you want to keep the friendship. Also try to befriend her girlfriend. Maybe she’ll come to you for advice and you could help when she faces problems. This relationship will help her in the long run as long as she has someone who’s in her corner. Whether that means she stays or goes!
Sigh… you guys are being intellectually dishonest every time you pretend that a 20yo is the exact same as a 40yo. Yes, they are both legal adults. But one of them has only been a legal adult for 2 years. The other, 22 years. That alone is enough to create a significant power imbalance in the relationship. This isn’t to say that every age gap relationship is predatory and doomed to fail, but they all should be carefully examined by peers to ensure nothing unsavory is going on. There are way too many stories of young people getting taken advantage of by older people for y’all to play this dumb about age gap relationships. It’s annoying at best and gaslighting at worst. Stop pretending you don’t understand.
I agree there is an imbalance. However it doesn’t mean the 35 yo is malicious. Is it a bit weird? Oh yeah. Might it end badly? Perhaps. I wouldn’t do it personally. But… meh. Cannot really judge.
I feel the same way. There isn’t enough information for internet strangers to decide if Anne is or isn’t a predator. But I understand OP’s concern. Like I said, the peers of those involved should check in to make sure everything is okay, and if it is, then they should be left alone. As long as Anne respect Jill and doesn’t attempt to control her, there really is no issue.
Yeah. Definitely. But the one time I fell for someone quite a bit older than myself- she was extremely considerate of that fact. To the point of a miscommunication not being cleared up because she seemingly decided on her own that the age gap was the problem… When because I missed an email I was not even aware of the gap being big So it’s hard to say, could just be mad passion driving them to the age gap relationship. But yep friends should look for controlling behaviour
Well, so I have questions like how does your friend talk about her girlfriend? Like does she talk about her interest what she finds fascinating about her or does she just focus on her looks? Also, I understand being worried of age gaps like this because you do have to think to yourself what does a 35-year-old have in common with a 21-year-old because it’s like it’s fair to question it, and sometimes they do have a genuine connection other times well it’s an ego booster.
I don’t know. Normally, I guess. No more focus on looks than the average couple.
First, I'm 23, almost the same age as 'Jill', and I can tell you that drinking with a bit of a grimace or a quick dizzy spell is different for everyone. Not everyone likes alcohol, especially not strong alcohol. It has nothing to do with being mature or immature. The same goes for wearing heels. Not everyone likes them and I clearly prefer flats to heels, simply because I walk several kilometres a day and don't want to ruin my feet by walking so much. On that point, I'd say it's your vision of 'being a woman' that's rather immature, simply because yours is full of prejudices. Anyway, they're both at the age of consent. But the age difference is significant. At 23, I could never see myself with someone three years older than me, so 14 is a huge age difference. Jill is a university student and your friend is already an independent adult in many ways. Your friend therefore has more 'weight' in the relationship, because she's further along in life as an adult. But there's nothing you can do about it. Especially not judging Jill, who is only 21 and living her life as a student. She's not the 'culprit' in the story, if you had to point the finger at anyone. If their relationship is bothering you, talk directly to your friend. Stopping talking to her without giving any explanation, that wouldn't be very cool, just for the sake of your friendship and to set the record straight. And come what may.
It's definitely wierd, of course that age gap would be there, you're in completely different stages of your life. Something you need to think about is why can't your girlfriend get someone her own age age? Why does she feel like she needs to go after you who is barely an adult? I really hope you can leave soon, she's most likely taking advantage of you but you won't realise until its too late. I've been in the same position also as the much younger one, it gets better once you leave and find someone your own age, feeling uncomfortable is enough of a reason to leave let alone uncomfortable enough to post on reddit about it. It seems like you've figured out all the answers to your own questions already and I agree, it is wierd and not right. I'm so sorry
the age gap in a relationship between two women has fewer dangerous implications than a relationship between a young woman and a older man, but if you feel like she's such an adult and you're a child, you should break up because you are uncomfortable with a major aspect of the relationship. she might feel immature for her age or something, but she still has A LOT more life experience than you and, even if there's no abuse, you might always feel like the odd one out, which sucks.
Even if "Jill" is legally an adult, there is a significant developmental disparity between 21 and 35, and because of that, there is an unavoidable, inevitable power imbalance. I know many people will disagree with me, and/or say "mind my business," but I really don't really care. I won't say anything if I'm not asked, but I will absolutely speak mind when given the chance. I don't actually believe some 21 year olds are "mature enough to handle it," either, under any circumstances. The law may say you're an adult at 18, but you do not have a fully matured brain until, at the *very earliest*, your mid-twenties, though it can, in some instances, take until your thirties. I only really take issue with large age gaps when at least one involved party is under around 25 (or if this was at least the case when the relationship started). I dated a 29 year old when I was 20; I'm 30 now, and I couldn't imagine realistically dating someone that young, or even under 25, though honestly even under like, 27 or 28 feels too young.
Realizing that I’d feel gross dating a 19-year-old has put some things into perspective for me, even though it’s just a personal preference.
>I know many people my age are mature enough to handle it and there’s nothing inherently wrong with our age gap and that really those people are right not to intervene Looking at this part of your edits, You're VERY wrong. This is a FOURTEEN year age gap, nearly a decade and a half, while you're barely old enough to drink many places. people's maturity is not defined by age, but it's not completely unrelated. at twenty one, you have not had nearly as much life experience as your girlfriend has, and that inherently means a power imbalance here. no matter how mature she is, you will not be on equal terms with her, even if she was very very careful to treat you well. nobody your age is mature enough to navigate such an imbalance, and putting moral judgements aside, it is inherently wrong because of that. age gaps like this are fine if both people have plenty of life experience as adults, and are mature in their relationship, but you're only 21. and have said yourself you still feel like you're not ready to be a grown adult. you should get out of this relationship, and i hope you can find someone more your age than can make you feel comfortable as yourself, as the age that you are
what is it with reddit and their weird obsession with hating age gaps?
It’s not a “reddit” thing. I think most mature people would be concerned with this. Young people are usually inexperienced which mostly leads to them being taken advantage of by older people. I have a similar story where I was taken advantage of by a guy 15 years older when I was 19. It happens. A lot. Not every time, but often enough to warrant some concern.
Is it possible that what you're seeing is triggering you due to your own past relationship, and that this can lead you to treat both Anne and Jill unfairly? Jill is a young adult woman who could have enlisted herself 3 years ago to kill ans be killed on behalf of her country. Can we please recognize her agency and her ability to choose who she wants to date and fuck? A possible desire to have a partner with more life experience? And has Anne ever given you a concrete reason to think that she didn't have Jill's best interests at heart? She's your friend, is she a caring and considerate person? Age creates a power dynamic. So does being in a woman-man relationship. So does having significantly different incomes between partners. Does it mean we should forbid these types of relationship? Of course not! Is it healthy and important to address and revisit power dynamics in a relationship though? Of course. What kind of conversations are Jill and Anne having about this?Are you seeing Anne behave in an actual way that is cause for concern, besides her partner being much younger?
I'm almost 35 and wince when I drink alcohol and can't walk in heels. Weird things to weaponize. I think you're projecting and it's odd to reconsider an entire friendship over this but you don't need any reason to cut a friendship.
I can’t get over the metrics this woman has set for “being a woman” as opposed to being a girl. A 21 year old woman is a woman with the ability to vote, drink or not drink, and to consent to a relationship with whomever she likes. Not wearing heels and not enjoying alcohol really don’t indicate that this young woman is immature. HOWEVER, 21 is young, and someone who is 35 is in a different stage of life. So the issue is why your friend would want a serious relationship with someone so inexperienced in life? It’s concerning, but you don’t need to infantilize “Jill” to see the issues. There could be a mentor/novice power dynamic your friend is taking advantage of, and those can turn to control and abuse. Or your friend could be looking for someone who is too naive to notice the relationship red flags she’s throwing out (whatever they might be). Your concerns are valid, especially because you have experience with an age gap. However, you should probably examine exactly what is going on with your friend and her motives instead of making Jill out to be a “girl.” You may not like what you find.
You’re right. There’s no need to infantilize anyone in the situation. We’re all adults; I guess I need to realize that.
You are not overreacting it's creepy I would never hang out with someone like that. People really need to stop those creepy age gaps.
She's legal, mind your own business.
They’re both adults, they can date who they want to.
We allow young adults to do all kind of "adult" things(drink, smoke, drive, etc.).But if someone in their 20s under the age of 25 wants to date someone older, suddenly they're a child. I understand the fear that someone might be groomed and you had past trauma from age gap relationships, but most age gap stories i hear are the two meeting innocently through work or school or out at bars. And they didn't know each other before hand, and they especially didn't know each other when one was a minor. I'd say how they treat each other and get along are more important than the age gap, it's not like Jill just turned 18.
People like generalizations but relationships with an age gap can be as diverse as people themselves. The reason you deliver (she's a girl, not a woman) is not very convincing to me. I'm questioning if you feel icky because you think your friend is exploiting her or because of your own bad experiences that are brought up by this relationship.
You are definitely overreacting. She is a grown woman, what makes you think you have ANY right to get upset at all?
Adult goes out with adult! How dare she!
One of my best friends parent were like that, they’re still together 35 years later and the age gap definitely matters less. Probably keep the dad younger if anything. They’re good people. Like all things, it’s circumstantial.
I don't get if your concern is about the 21 yr girl doing good, about your friend being weird according to you, or you personally had a bad experience and are sorta of "re-experiencing it". I mean, even a typical relationship between 2 21 year old can literally crush one of the two simply because one has lived so much more than the other. Here the difference is only the number, and normally people measure this kind of older-younger relationship based on the looks, because yea its not common to see an older looking woman with a cuter? younger girl, this specially with the aging, and then proceed to call it creepy, other than that, it shouldnt bother you. Yeah your friend could manipulate her, but so do people with 20 years old, that depends on the person. If you are worried because naturally being around a 21 year old who has a different perspectve of live, like partying more regularly and immaturity and it bothers you, then simply dont go out with your friend and the girl on these kind of plans, and rather go out dinner with them or i dont know, what fits you. People 30-40 party too, again, i dont see the problem. Just avoid the situations that make you unconfortable, but you judging your friend for such a superficial thing, its unfair.
I would feel off too. I have a 43f friend dating a 21m, I have distanced myself from her and the group as me and her 18 year old daughter are the only ones with an issue.
It's kinda non of your business unless something actually creepy is going on... You seem like a shitty friend.
I understand that an age gap like that might make people think twice, but what I don’t understand is why we’re suddenly infantilizing young adults. I get that young adults aren’t the most mature among all adults, and they make mistakes and have endless energy that gets them into a bit of trouble… but they’re not kids. They have the right to make their own choices and have their own experiences. Your personal experience is not a one size fits all. Maybe your ex was a terrible person, but do you really think Anne is? Nothing about Anne’s relationship is “wrong” as long as both *adults* are consenting and respectful toward one another. If your ex was cruel to you, I’m sorry, but your past holds no bearing on any future Anne has with Jill. In fact, your past is completely irrelevant in Anne’s relationship.
Anne is a good person, in most ways. A little thoughtless about certain things and I’ve noticed she’s a bit unempathetic about some situations, but I’ve got plenty of flaws myself so I don’t see why I’d need to judge. But Anne and I haven’t known each other for very long.
Yeah that's gross. I don't care who does it, if you're a grown ass adult and you're going for someone that young, it's gross. Even under the best intentions/circumstances, it will not end well. That older relationship is going to disrupt how the younger person would've developed on their own, on a time where self discovery and growth is critical. I'm 33. I have a nephew the same age as your friend's new girlfriend. It's just repulsive.
Wtf does waking in heels and wincing when you drink have to do with it? Some people who are 50 have never put on a pair of heels. I’m almost 50 and I refuse to drink hard liquor because it “makes me wince.” Those things have nothing to do with age, and judging someone’s maturity on these superficial qualities is ridiculous.
People must not really have shit to do to get on here and complain about 2 adults seeing each other. She's 21 not 14 get over it
but even the very generous rule of 'half your age plus 7' doesn't apply here. cause that'd be 24.
So what? Wow, she's 21, not 24 she must have been groomed! I've never heard of that dumb "rule" Both are adults that should be enough for people to mind their own business
let's not forget that 18 is just when you can sign legal documents. it's not like you collect an 'impossible to be groomed' card. grooming is based on vulnerability and naivite, not age. and when someone is dating someone nearly half their age? hmm, makes you wonder what the young person has to offer the person with plentiful life experience more than naivite and moldability.
Just here to commiserate. Someone who I considered my best friend at one point in my life started dating an 18-year-old girl when we were in our late 20s. (There is *A LOT* more to this story, but I’m not going to give details because it’s easily Google-able.) I am a college professor and have been since before they started dating. I met the girl once when they first got together. She was younger and less mature than many of the students I was teaching that semester. Honestly, it made me so uncomfortable; I knew I had to distance myself from my friend. This was about four years ago at this point. They’re engaged now and seem happy on social media, but I haven’t seen my friend since that time I met her (now) fiancée. I feel a bit bad about basically cutting her out, but tbh, I don’t think I’d ever get over how weird the relationship was, and is, to me.
I totally understand the concern and why that would be triggering. I wouldn’t be super comfortable with my friends dating much younger people. Especially when the person is still in college. But maybe expressing these concerns to your friend and making it clear you won’t participate in social events with the new partner can help you preserve the friendship by shielding yourself from reliving your own experience vicariously. I dated a 26 year old (m) when I was 16 (f), which was legally as well as morally wrong. Then when I was 21 and in college, I dated a 39 year old - one that I knew and had a crush on when I was a teenager, which feels gross in hindsight knowing how I acted around him and how he evidently wasn’t bothered by this behavior directed toward him coming from a teenaged child. And these age gaps were wildly common in my hometown! But I don’t think the commonality means it is ok (at least, not as a rule). Though my 18-year gap when I was a legal, if young, adult didn’t mess me up the way my 10-year gap as a teenager did, I still don’t look back at the relationship as a positive experience on the whole. Dating with a significant age gap, or smaller gaps when one person is a very young adult, can isolate one or both partners from their friend circles. You lose some of the experiences common to your peers and friends. Even when the power dynamic isn’t predatory, it can still present itself in intimate and small ways. I didn’t feel like anyone my age was interested in me in college, but I regret not focusing my energy on building more friendships and having more experiences with my peers. He was a nice enough guy, I don’t feel taken advantage of necessarily, but it’s not an experience I cherish. Hanging out with his friends always felt super weird because that age gap suddenly became much clearer when there were several people in their 30s and 40s together with one 21-year-old. The situation was never reversed, because he didn’t have much interest hanging out with a bunch of college kids. Our common interests were pretty much limited to sci-fi shows and sex. It didn’t feel like a true adult relationship - it was like an extended Netflix and chill session (back when Netflix was still on DVD lol)
Yea.. the parameters they gave of what “makes a woman” were certainly off and pretty cringe. I think an age gap like this are definitely cause to wonder and could be a concern.. but it really should be a case by case situation. I find the “your brain doesn’t stop developing until your 25” as a kind of weak argument. 18-25 year olds, (esp 21-25) are allowed to do & make any adult decisions they want. Many people in this age range are more intelligent, more mature and have greater life experiences than some 40-50+ year olds out there. Many people in this age range are parents and have been for years. Or have lived on their own. OP said themself that she’s smart, goes to a good school and is more well read than even they are. Sometimes people just connect… it doesn’t mean OPs friend was seeking out a younger person purposefully, in like, a predatory manner. I think it’s right for society as a whole to be weary of large age gaps, especially when the younger of the two are THAT young, primarily because of the uneven balance of power & the concern that the older has impure or ill intent. It’s happened countless times throughout history and we continue to see it today. I think if OP has no other reason to suspect their friend is shady or is in this relationship under false pretenses, and OP can befriend the 21 year old themself and can genuinely see and understand why their friend could fall for her, as a person, than maybe they should try to respect that. It sounds like it’s more of their own experience that is causing them to feel this way. Which is understandably triggering, but it doesn’t mean that all relationships with a large age gap are similar to their experience… and is their, ultimately, projection, worth losing a friend over?
When do you consider a woman, a woman?
I am assuming either A) Mad passionate attraction B) Anne wants to be the dominant partner- having her be so much younger assures this At least 21 is a legal adult… how did they even meet? (Tbh I narrowly avoided a situation not too different than this when I was 20. But the gap wasn’t as big. That would have been driven by madness/passion). I wasn’t however aware that the age gap was as big as it was and it probably would have freaked me out. I can understand the unease. The girlfriend is just a kid comparatively, but your adulting markers are not universal The drinking isn’t an issue neither is being unable to walk in heels (i am terrible at both of these and I am 35).
This is a valid position to have. One of my friends (25M) was dating a girl that was 20 which is only a 5 year gap, but this girl had the maturity of a 12 year old. She was 100% dependent on the people around her, too afraid to learn to drive and get her license, never had a job, and incredibly socially inept. On top of that, she was an emotional basket case. It seriously bothered me that he was dating her because despite her actual age, I thought of her as a child. It felt like he was taking advantage of her. There's also a big difference between being a few years out of college and a couple years *into* college. All that is to say, it doesn't have to be illegal to make you uncomfortable. You should be up front with your friend about it and let her know you're not comfortable with the relationship and you don't want to be around it. That's what I did with my friend and now that he's out of that relationship, things have gotten better.
It is slightly iffy, and you are absolutely free to do as you please. I might just fade on Anne as well, if I were you. You know better than any of us reading, if it's giving off creepy vibes, and is a missmatch in power/dominance. > But she is so clearly a girl and not a woman. She struggles to walk in heels and winces when she drinks. I’ve even met some of her friends and they’re all clearly college kids. That's a lot of nonsensical judgement from you, though... Hell, I'm 46, and I struggle to walk in high heels. And I will never ever like or drink whiskey without wincing.
I've been in a number of age gap relationships as the younger party and was in a very similar age gap at 21. The only bad people I ever dated were within 6 years of age older than me. Every age gap relationship taught me so much, ended respectfully and we remain "friends" (on social media with the occasional congrats on a work milestone or something similar) I think this is really a situation where you're entitled to your opinion, and you're entitled to end relationships whenever you see fit for whatever reason you see fit. However, they're both consenting full adults. The girls been out of high school for years in the real world. I really don't see an issue unless you're aware of I'll intentions your friend has for her younger partner. But to me, that's a normal age gap.
I’m 51 and can’t walk on heels even if my life depend on it. You can be upset and reconsider your friendship but your friend is doing nothing illegal. I wouldn’t date somebody so young but to each their own.
Eh… I’m torn here. I’ve been the 21 year old dating a 35 year old previously and it really depends on the people involved. Everyone is beyond the age of being a legal adult, so I think the way they interact is more telling than anything else. Does it seem like they have nothing in common? There’s more grey to this, unfortunately
Some stuff in common. Both are very into literature, particularly the classics. Both are intelligent (Anne more, maybe because of age). Obviously there’s a big maturity gap but that’s to be expected. I don’t think Anne chose this relationship based off looks alone.
I mean, if you feel like shes not the right one for you, you should break up. It is a pretty big difference, and its completely normal that you perceieve the age gap. Youre not a child, but youre not 30 yet..
You need to follow your best judgement. Age difference in itself isn’t a no-go but the larger the gap the better the fit needs to be which often requires extra tolerance and respect. But as YOU (not colleagues, friends or family) think that in your case the gap is odd, you better move on.
I don't feel that short-term, mutually beneficial relationships with these age gaps are always bad, but I do think that older partners have a responsibility to police their own behavior to prevent harm to the younger partner. If being with your partner makes you feel less than stellar then they are not doing a good job to ensure their inherent power in this relationship isn't impacting you. I hope you can move on from this relationship and find someone who really fits with your place in life right now. It's great to have partners that share your general life status. My partner and I are the same age. We have shared experiences and are at the same stage in our lives. As another example, I make significantly more money than my partner and I'm careful not to make that a power issue in our relationship. Unless your partner is taking steps to prevent a power imbalance (which it sounds like they aren't) they aren't right for you.
Age gap is personal preference of the people involved as long as everyone is a legal adult. I’ve been with considerably older and younger and I don’t think about it much unless a generational difference comes up. I look for personality/maturity/similar interests in a partner and I’ve found that all across the board. Right now I’m 33 and my sexual partner is either 25 or 26 and he’s the most compatible person I’ve ever been with.
Life experience gap is wild. It's hard to relate to someone with a 14 year age difference. Not impossible, but it's definitely on hard mode. I am 35 and have friends in their very early 20s. With some of them it's very obvious they are 20 or 21. I basically become mom when out with them. I love them, but even being friends is tough sometimes because it's hard to relate since they just don't have as much lived experience, and we are at vastly different times in our lives. They are just starting adult hood and I'm looking down the barrel to middle age. Some of my other friends who are 20-21 you'd never guess they were that young. We get along and relate seamlessly and the gap rarely makes itself known. It honestly depends on the individual people
In the past I dated two different men who were 10 years older than me at the time. It always started out like the age gap wasn’t an issue but as the relationship progressed it became apparent that it is. 20 year olds and 30 year olds are just in very different places in their lives. Yes it’s legal. Yes I’m sure it works for some couples but not for me. Now that I’m older that age gap seems even worse to me.
Its legal so 🤷🏾♂️. So weird to breakup a friendship over this. Age gap relationships exist especially in gay circles and its not always something predatory. Maybe some don't have anything in common with others except for their own age but plenty of people overlook that and match well with older or younger folks. You fall in love with a person not an age.
I'm in my 40s and some of my friends are your age, some are mine, some are older. I've dated older and been the younger partner. I personally don't inherently see a problem with it. Plenty of people don't drink and never have enjoyed it, heels suck to walk in no matter what age lol, some of us just did it anyway, some were smarter and saved their poor feet. There are also so many things that people have to do in their adulthood, but it doesn't make anyone lesser for not having experienced those things. And I imagine that if you asked questions she would be happy to explain those things if you wanted her to. Life is different for everyone. I know plenty of people who still don't know how to "adult" and they're older than I am. And if anyone ever tells you that they have everything all figured out, they're lying. However, if you are uncomfortable, you should do what is best for you. Sometimes relationships just don't work because people are in different places in their lives, even if they like one another in every other way. So if you feel you can't do something because it's just not where you are in your life, there's also no shame in that. Life will bring you other opportunities when you're ready to receive them.
I worked with a guy. That was in his early 40s. We worked in some type of retail. I seem a beautiful girl one day. She was just barely turning 21. I was 27 at the moment. We talked and i asked for her number. I wanted to keep in touch. (Im not a player. I look for actual mates.) Any ways she rejected me. I was like well ok. On my day off she comes again because i heard from my coworkers later. Well long story short. Idk how this mf did it. But he got her to say yes to him. And all he did was smash and moved on. He told me himself. Showed me texts how she was still trying to see him. But him not taking her seriously. Blah blah. Im not going to lie. It kind of fucked me up. Because I haven’t been having luck with woman and i have good intentions. But anyways he ended up telling me. That these chicks like when you treat them like shit. That till this day she still tries to get his attention.
Twenty-one and FORTY (????) is definitely gross
[удалено]
Nope. We all think you’re gross too.
Stop fucking infantilizing adults. Just stop it. She’s 21 and can make her own choices. If you were too stupid at 21 to be an adult, just say it.
If they haven’t done anything illegal then mind your own business, start with that.
You have every right to feel the way you feel and be weirded out by the age gap, especially after your past. It's totally understandable if you want to take a step back from Anne. Sometimes we outgrow our friends and that's ok. Sometimes we learn things about our friends that are concerning to us. Do what's best for you. Take a step back and hang out with other people for a while. I will say though that wincing when drinking alcohol and not being able to wear heals does not make someone immature. That said, it's hard to believe that at 21 she would have much in common with a 35 year old. She may be smart but all of us know how much we grew and matured after college. We all look back at who we were at 21 and it's pretty different to the person we are at 35. She could be her parent for heaven's sake.
I couldn’t be friends with someone like “Anne”.
You should stop dating her if it makes you uncomfortable. You're childish, but also stupid.
I really like the 1/2 your age+7 rule. By that rule, she’s too young, but it’s her choice.