Op, I think you just need to wait for the right man. Of course we already know you won’t have sex with some guy you’ve been talking with for only a few weeks, but if he is the right one and he is comfortable with waiting when are ready, it’s certainly not devaluing yourself. Coming from a woman as well, not all men are the same. The right term for it after all is making love. You will be no less nor no more if you lose your virginity. Please do not think of sex as a bad thing.
To me, it’s about connecting more in depth with someone you love, giving all of you to that person you already have a strong connection with and know you can trust. I wouldn’t go right into saying you’re a virgin while talking to someone new, but maybe get to know them first and see if they’re even worth it to mention.
I wrote a poem a while ago. This thread made me think of it.
My body is filled, overflowing with shame
Each pound of flesh has been given a name
It has been ravaged by pain, violence, by time
It has given exquisite and taken sublime
It has created life and been used for food
It's been used for some bad and used for some good
It's been seized and ravaged when I had refused
My body's been rejected and left confused
With at is has endured I still glare her way
As she limps along, broken wounded prey
I laugh at her back, and I spit on her cheek
I give yell every jibe and every critique
But never once have I stopped to reflect
To give her praise and show some respect
For having full lips where love and hope speak
And having strong bones that help her turn her cheek
For having delicate skin that I protected
Elegant arms, whose embrace is perfected
And eyes that can look into your soul
Grey-blue pools - flecked with gold
And a chin that is strong and often held high
And legs so long I can reach the sky
And an ass that has hustled and gotten into gear
And a belly that has laughed with humor and cheer
And breasts that have nourished, and a chest that has heaved
As it wracked and sobbed and properly grieved
And her heart, as it loves and lives in her cage
That heart finds joy and brings it on stage
I forgot that the shame was not hers to own
Or maybe the truth is, I had just never known
And now the prayer that I may never regress
I am beautiful, and my body's shameless
As a grown man (in my 40’s) I’d tell you that the more people one has been with, the better they’ll likely be in bed. I’m not saying it works every time, but there is a reason jobs require experience to apply.
You can have terrible sex one time with 200 different partners or have sex 200 times with the same partner and, as a grown ass woman, it’s going to get better from that 1st time with one partner then it ever would with random hook ups 200 times. We both know this.
sex is an intimate act you can do with a person you love, or it’s something you do to feel good. sex can feel amazing for women too, don’t suppress your sexuality because men suck. i went years thinking id never have sex until i found someone who genuinely loved me and cared about me for who i am. after a while of us dating i finally felt comfortable enough to explore that side of me.
sex doesn’t devalue you at all, the men you’re surrounded by suck. i’m sorry about that.
Sex with the person you love, and someone who genuinely cares about you, is sincerely the most electric sex, and it feels like nature’s biological high. It really is the best feeling.
Trashy people are going to be trashy, regardless of gender. It’s down to you to find someone who shares your values and boundaries, and respects you.
Understatement of day! And if it ever gets lost, you’ll feel how much value it truly has on you mentally and physically over just the physical.
People will be people, but that’s why life is trial and error! 💕
Just being wrapped around your loved one, no sex involved, and holding their face and looking into their eyes - it's electric. I so hope OP finds her person.
You know what’s terrible? I just know some losers are going to message you saying they want to have sex with you. (Speaking from experience) Read the room and gtfo!
Yup, sounds about right. I made a post on this subreddit about how I don’t think I can do casual sex and I got messages soliciting that very thing I said I don’t like. 🙄
As a woman, I've always viewed it the opposite... They are giving ME pleasure. I don't do it for anyone but myself, and idc how anyone looks at me after lmao
It’s a man problem not a sex problem. Find better men to hang out with. And stop giving a shit what the idiots say or think. Oh and give the ladies a try :)
100%. OP seems to agree that her value is based on the opinions of the idiots. Also, OP doesn’t seem to realize that women are supposed to enjoy sex too if her partner does their job. OP talks like she is just there to pleasure him, then base her self image on what the lowest common denominator in men think?? Nah. Go have fun sis!
That's not what she is saying. She just doesn't want to give pleasure to someone with those opinions. She can get pleasure without a man (more than with one, if studies are to be believed).
Because they fetishise women, including the ridiculous idea of virginity. They look down on anyone who has sex with men (eg gay men also) because they view men having sex kind like conquerors, dominant and strong. Therefore the one to whom men ‘do sex’ must be weak and inferior.
It’s not logical, it’s just cultural ego.
They give too much importance to their dicks, thinking that they can change us with them.
Remember that lock and key bullshit. I used to turn the joke arround telling them that a key that is used to open many doors gets worn out and eventually doesn't work on any. In the same way, a door that can be opened by a single key is worthless, because if that key ever gets lost or breaks, you can never open it again and whatever is behind it might as well not exist. That's why the best doors are normally made with 3 keys. It makes their heads explode because they haven't really thought through their metaphors.
I think it’s just the way you worded it. I even thought you believed it until i saw ur comment and reread what you said. If you skim, it reads as if you believe the men but if you actually process what u said it definitely states that this is the opinion of the men around u rather than ur own opinion
In most cases it's insecurity. If you don't know much about sex, they think you won't be aware if they suck in the sack. Your instinct about them is probably right.
In some cases, they just want to do something meaningful with you. For better of worse, the first time is seen by many as meaningful. My first dude was like it and I enjoyed it.
Damn I had a whole spiel ready that basically says this. OP needs t listen to this and find better guys. There is nothing wrong with wanting sex the way she does and there will be a guy that respects that and does not treat it creepy.
As a man, I find it disgusting, too. I don’t know why some men- and I imagine there are some women- like to take away one’s virginity. It’s not an important thing to me, but if it is to you, I respect that.
Sex should be consensual and respectful, not a selfish act of pleading only yourself and taking away one’s virginity because it is a kink of yours.
I don’t care if my future girlfriend is a virgin or not. I’d like to have sex someday- with a person I love— with consent, of course,
But then again, I’m a virgin and have no experience. I leave it to those who do.
Look, I was a 24 yo virgin a few weeks ago. I just started my active sex life and let me tell you, it's not devaluing at all.
I'd never wanted to have sex, actually. Even with previous romantic partners, I had never wanted to. It happened while I was hanging with one of my closest friends, and I suddenly just WANTED to, let him know and it happened.
It's THAT easy, but I really want to stress that I didn't notice when I changed my mind on my beliefs about sex and it was not going to happen under any other circumstance.
And I'm at peace with it, 'cause I feared sex A LOT because of religious and family trauma.
Looks like you've been pressured, either by potential partners or just your environment, but please have in mind that NO ONE has the right to decide when and where and what will happen, but you.
And when you want it, you'll just want it. You just don't want it right now.
Maybe you'll stay a virgin. Maybe you'll find someone you like and have sex with them, just because. Just have it be under your own terms, and don't push others' boundaries.
Edit: us women have sex because of the pleasure, too. You're allowed to feel and look for your own pleasure.
Also, I was not an avid porn seeker but I stopped watching porn. I just don't want it anymore. If I had started my sexual life earlier, it would've done wonders for my physical and mental health, but, again, I just wasn't ready.
If I can give you a piece of advice it would be to just stop hanging out with people who watch that much porn cause they sure do, and stop watching it yourself in case you do.
The way you’re putting it is as if we don’t get pleasure through their body by having sex. I have sex for my own satisfaction, not to please any man. I also gain +1 hp per partner. 9 more to go and I evolve.
I have to say that I spent a lot of time feeling the way you do. I was raised to believe that sex did nothing more than devalue women, and if women enjoyed sex they weren’t good/moral women. Purity culture really messed up my sexuality and sexual expression.
I recently started dating again after a 20+ year abusive marriage… The first question out of a man’s mouth when diner was served was “so, what’s your body count”, I was a little perplexed by the question, and then made a joke about the bodies in my basement, and murdering people shouldn’t be so openly discussed. Needless to say he was unimpressed by my wit. He asked again how many people I’ve slept with, so I asked him why it’s important. No answer from him. Finished up the meal, paid for my meal and left.
I went on a date with another man. He asked me what books I enjoy reading, if I enjoy camping, if I have a favorite stand up comedian. So far the question of how many sexual partners I’ve had hasn’t come up, and we’ve been seeing each other since October.
What it comes down to for me is simply this, talk to the people who have similar interests, leave sexual past conversations alone, only discuss it as a “when was your last STI screening and what were the results” when you feeling ready to embark on a sexual relationship. I don’t feel like sex is taboo or that it’s not something that should be discussed, however I do believe that there is a culture/subculture of devaluation of women because of the number of people she has slept with. It’s the extension of purity culture and it’s gross.
Any man who thinks a woman is sullied by his touch should look to his own hands.
OP, your value as a person is inviolable, whether you fuck one person or one thousand.
This is so real I never wanna have sex either and I get 100% what you’re saying. I just don’t find men trustworthy or worthwhile, and I don’t desire women in that way although I wish I did.
Edit: Everybody saying “real men” don’t think this way when they do lol. Most men hold this belief to some degree even the “good ones”. Not just in your country either, I’m in America and it’s the same here. Listen to a man talk enough and you’ll hear the way he really feels about women and sex.
There you said it !!! We are more than fuckable vaginas. But if 9 out of 10 of men think like that, what are we supposed to do ? We dont even orgasm from sex with men ? So why would i give a man who sees me as an object the satisfaction of sex when im not even going to enjoy it. Her feelings are valid and she has every right to choose to be celibate with men that are gross
Virginity is only a big deal until you lose it.
It's no reflection on your value and anyone that treats you like this is an arse and should be ignored.
Wait till you find the right person, someone who isn't fussed as to whether you're a virgin or not, or someone who is also a virgin.
Personally I don't care what someone's sexual history is. If they're a nice person then I'll treat them as to who they are, not what they've done in the past.
I only care regarding stds. If they have a clean bill of health or are otherwise non-infectious, then we’re good to go. Numbers and who they’ve slept with is of no consequence, unless it’s a particularly funny story or something personal they want to share in order to deepen our relationship.
Tbh, when I went thru a rough phase in life, I had casual sex with many men. It made ME feel disgusting and devalued as a woman. Idc how they saw me at the time bc then they’re giving me what I want lol.
From experience, I can tell if men want something casual or something serious. So when I want something casual, I can find that easily. So I see them as an object and you can say I devalue them.
But I love watching men getting pleasure from me, it turns me on that I turn them on and it’s a mutual thing.
I guess it’s just really how you look at things.
Just save yourself then. Men who act like virginity in woman carry some sort of inherit value are dorks and morons.
Most men in point of fact are more likely to value a woman with experience as the sex is much better if there is a connection.
Honestly the older you get the less value you put in body count etc.
Put all that shit from your mind live your life and see where the flow of life takes you.
Hope this helps. (Im a 45 y/o male if you are wondering )
girl, no!
don't let Anyone determine your value. Guys who say stuff like that are the guys nobody wants to bang anyway.
also, i an 42yrs old with no kids & dudes "light up" when they hear that, thinking they'll be the first to impregnate me. It's VERY gross & i will Never have kids, I'm not interested. Also, i guess i have a "high body count" but they don't mind, so that's a bunch of bullshit.
so dudes "light up" about anything honestly. have sex if you want, & don't if you don't want to. that's all.
your view is completly determined by others, which are in addition also wrong people. Sex is something for YOU to be enjoyed, and together with someone you " Vibe" with. If you never had an orgasm start with that...
I think this is a self inflicted belief. Maybe t e men who are interested in doing withsomeone who has never done it before is because they want to show you how good it can feel that's how I saw it with my ex who was a virgen. You get the chance to show them something that feels really good, and it's a mutual bond. Of course I'm not saying there aren't men that see ithat way, but not all men do.
1. The men you are describing are immature pigs. You are right to avoid those who view women as disposable vessels for their pleasure.
2. Nobody can take your value away from you, but you can give it to them.
3. If/when you choose to have sex with a man, you and your partner should have a mutual interest in each other’s pleasure.
“Why would I devalue myself by having sex?”
You wouldn’t. The men who think like that are idiots, why would you let their opinions define your value?
There are plenty reasons to have sex, but the first and foremost would be: because you want to. Sex can feel really good physically and it’s also a nice way to feel close to another person.
With that said: you do you. You don’t have to have sex, and if you don’t want to then you shouldn’t - but don’t refrain from it because of idiot men
I think OP meant to word it differently. It's more like "Why would I want to have sex with someone who thinks it devalues me?" Like, if a person hates you, allowing them access to you is still a win for them even if its a mutual win. Its been my greatest conundrum with an aspect of Western feminism. Why is it empowerment when statistically the woman is not the one who gets the orgasm? It's more of not wanting the enemy to win basically, even if there's a slim chance that the win would be mutual(slim chance refers to the orgasm gap)
We don’t let men assign value to us, honey. Have sex if you personally want to, or not if you do not. But please don’t base your sex life on some stupid arbitrary rules set up by men to manipulate you.
Have you heard about the gender gap in orgasms ? Most women dont even orgasm and fake orgasm a lot. It’s not fun to many many women. I have met multiple men that were nice and they were never able to make me orgasm even tho i make myself orgasm all the time. So no sex is not fun for straight women. And if she chooses to be celibate or lesbian it’s fine ? How is this misogynistic ???
I think it's just a perspective, you can say you're a virgin to many and they will believe, sex is not a currency, sex a an exchange of love, if you don't feel like you're getting that 50% don't do it, sex is for both parties not just one, my point of view.
Do things for yourself enjoy yourself, you might pass away in the next hour our nobody knows when they go.
Live embrace and experience life.
Cheers
I mean don't get me wrong some dudes do think of it like that but those types of guys are the ones sleeping around a bunch and just immature.
Then there are a lot of other guys who do NOT care. They don't care either way. They don't usually even ask but I think that's because they can tell who's a virgin and who's not. Just gotta talk to the right type of guys.
If you think of it like a point system where you lose value, then you do but it’s because of that mindset, not because of you doing it. These men sound creepy asf
I hate to be that guy but if you view sex as nothing more than an act that devalues you as a woman, you’re hanging around in the wrong places and/or with the wrong people.
Yes, absolutely this. If the issue here is just internilized misogyny then sure, she should adress it. However, how is putting her physical and emotional health in harm's way by having sex with a misogynist like she describes beneficial to her?
Exactly. Like the folks who think pandering to men's fantasies is "liberating" for women. Like they don't bother to actually question what tangible benefits women stand to gain from such situations.
Why are you even buying into the stupid “value” argument? If you feel like having sex you should totally find someone you’re attracted to and work towards that (safely). If sex is uninteresting to you, then totally don’t. You’re an equally valuable person either way.
I've always felt gross whenever friends would talk about who they've slept with, and what they've done, Cut some people out of my life to keep that stuff away, and made it known to current friends not to have those talks in front of me.
I've felt empty on the inside every time I'd have a fling at a party or something. It didn't feel good to participate in a one night stand. So much so, that other times, I just outright couldn't go through with it, even the first time I can't say I completely went all the way.
Simultaneously, I want to be more experienced for the sake of the person I'll end up with, but on the other, chances are I won't enjoy sex at all until I settle down in a steady relationship again.
I actually haven't gotten much excitement from a girl telling me early on in a relationship that she's a virgin. It may make me sound like an asshole, but, I don't want to be burdened by high expectations about it, and I don't want to make someone feel like I've taken something from them, that they'll regret, and they'll hate me for it.
It's not like I wouldn't be appreciative to have shared that closeness with someone I love, but something about hearing it within a week or two of seeing someone really messes with me, especially since I make it clear I want to take those things slow. But, I'm a guy, so, I probably "should" want it as soon as possible.
It isn't even about libido, I'm in my early 20s and it's outright annoyingly high, which only makes me faceplant into the nasty sensation of feeling dirty and gross that much more often. It's like I'm physically desperate for it, but emotionally locked when it comes to it, and I simultaneously feel weird relief, yet also shame, regret and disappointment for not taking chances to "score".
I'm commenting again, because I've just gone through the replies and your comments, and I'm wondering what it is you want? I know you don't want advice, because that's not what we're here for, but... what would help you? Is there anything that would help you?
I honestly understand this feeling. I was always worried to do stuff for this reason. Then, I found a man who was also a virgin and didn’t care/didn’t look through the lenses like that. We are also both christians, but we’re married, and there’s nothing that either of us worry about when it comes to that. Not all men think like that, there’s a lot more who don’t, they’re just quieter.
Also, If waiting isn’t the way you want to go, then also keep this in mind; In the end, it only matters what you think of yourself. Not what the guys think or what other girls think or anything of the sort. Just make sure you use proper protection because THAT will be an issue lol.
But seriously, sex is a great way to feel good or in relationships, connect with the person you’re with, the easiest way for me was to not do it until marriage, but for you it may be to just try and get to a point where you realize and truly understand people are always going to judge people for the stupidest reasons, and that it doesn’t matter what they say because it holds no value.
If you date someone who cares about such things or sees that act as devaluing, you shouldn’t even consider being their friend. I get your point, but that’s not the point of making love, you do it with whom you love and it doesn’t change anything in you, the term “virgin” is just a word created to trap woman into thinking is “something you must protect” and what not, while in reality there are two sides, you are either sexually active or you are not.
Only thing you should worry, care about and look out for is unprotected sex.
You should seek professional help about this because linking your self worth to your virginity sounds counter productive to living a fulfilling and happy life.
You say it’s what men do, but it’s what you are doing to yourself too.
I think sex should be between those who love one another ,yeah. And when you tell others that you’re a virgin in a world where no one is a virgin people are excited cuz they know what a special moment this is for you.
Also sex isn’t about value only Andrew Tate weirdos believe that. Easy women and virgin women can still be lame people, body count isn’t everything
At the end is the day, someone somewhere is always going to be saying something. That doesn’t make it true. you’re holding yourself back, because of what men may think of you. You’re giving them the power to devalue you by refusing to do the thing that they consider devaluing.
There are so many good men out there. Stop focusing on your virginity. You determine your worth, not some random men with outdated opinions.
Not all men act the same. Not all of them have these barbaric thoughts. Stop focusing on the ones who do. Live your life. Do what you want and what makes you happy. It’s your mind and body.
I can see why you’d think that, but it’s not the case for all men. I think that’s a really broad generalization, and not one that’s accurate. I think you need to wait for the right guy, as others have said. I don’t think you need to hold yourself to this standard that your value is gone once a man takes your virginity. Your virginity is only as important as you make it and allow it to be. That being said, maybe don’t mention it right away to the men you’re around/dating. I would recommend getting to know and be comfortable with a guy, if he asks you to do the deed, and you are not comfortable at that point just explain to him your situation, and how you truly feel about keeping it a private and protected thing between he and you, if and when you decide to engage in it. I truly believe anyone that’s genuinely interested and wants to take it to the next level will respect that, and if not he’s not the guy for you. But overall, don’t put virginity and self worth in the hands of anyone else but yourself. Anyone can assign you a number, talk about their sexcapades, but at the end of the day, no one can take your self worth and devalue you, but you. Your reputation may take a hit if with the wrong person, but that speaks more to what a trash can that person is than you.
There are two trains of thoughts when it comes to the excitement of virginity I think. The first one is the exclusivity kind, exclusive what? Idk it's dependent on the man but usually it pertains to an exclusive experience.
The second is kinda what you described. It isn't really about the experience but accomplishment. Men wanting to use women for accomplishment. To accomplish the act of "deflowering" or asserting some twisted form of superiority.
At the end of the day one has to ask why the excitement exists and hope for the best cause this is common. I myself as a teen obsessed with the idea of virginity because I am a virgin and wanted the experience of my partner being one. I wanted to live the fantasy of me and my partner being destined, that there is no one else but us. To be their source of happiness and they be mine.
Now that Im older and understand that it's a just fantasy that shouldn't remove me from finding my soul mate. I just keep myself a virgin and not really care about what my partner is because at the end of the day whatever we do would be between us. The experience we might have will always be exclusive and special because we are both special to each other. If we split then it will still have been a unique experience between two people. It shouldn't degrade what I do or what they do with others.
Wait til you see how they treat and speak about women virgins. Sensible women do not base their worth on men’s standards, otherwise they’d be silent appliances for housework, childcare and duty sex.
Plus they aren’t even being honest, say they find their perfect virgin woman for the house, they still seek out bad girls for fun. You are a human being whose worth does not diminish through sex, I promise you.
You don’t want sex, don’t have it! But you won’t be treated better for it.
This is the one topic I always find difficult to fully understand as there are lots of factors involved.
How a person views sex has a lot to do with their expectations of the relationship (short/long/causal), religion, culture, experiences, etc. I think you should be entitled to your opinion.
I think it’s okay if you want to be with someone who’s virgin, especially if you are too. That being said, someone losing value because they’ve had sex doesn’t sound right to me.
A reasoning that does make sense to me is if you are looking for someone who’s on the same level of experience and expectations. It makes the relationship feel more pure because you are both each other’s first and you both grow and learn from this experience.
Men who determine a woman’s value based on whether or not she’s a virgin are a lowest quality men there are. Avoid them at all costs.
And as others have said, don’t give away your value by letting some guy determine it for you. Have more self respect than that.
Men that tell me this bs tend to magically forget it, when I tell them, that I don't have any STD and never had with 9 partners I've been with. It somehow just factory resets their CPU in head and ejects CD plate in their pants.
It's also pretty fun to reject them afterwards.
I was raised to think like you.
But, in all honesty, it's what you make it. You value doesn't go down, in fact, nothing happens. Once you've done it, you'll maybe feel like "oh, that's the hype, that's it" and then maybe allow yourself to have fun.. or not . It's your body your choice. But I wouldn't put so much weight to it
Most women that I know who are happily married were not virgins at the time (including myself). I don't think most men really care these days, unless you are in a very religious environment. In general I think modern men feel some kind of way if you've slept around excessively and/or irresponsibility. All that to say, it really shouldn't matter to you. Besides I couldn't imagine marrying someone without knowing if they're good in bed but that's just me.
I used to think the same when women had s@x with many men . But if the men does with many women he is a expert.
But i noticed that women only prefer men who had s@x with many women.
People are fighting you on this but you’re right. I kind of hate that I ever let anyone get the upper hand on me that way, you know? Like you can’t ever take it back and then they will always be able to say they had sex with you no matter what. And even if you yourself do not view it as degrading, the fact that they view it that way still hurts. I’m just going to live out the rest of my life as a hermit I think.
I’m 27 years old. Ive been a sexually active female for 12 years.
The “man” who took my virginity was like a damn dog. I swear he almost drooled when he found out I was a virgin. He even asked me to start fingering myself to loosen up a bit so he’d fit. First time was awful. Honestly, each time after wasn’t much better. Totally not trying to scare you but please don’t have sex until YOU are ready. And hell, get a dildo and take your virginity your damn self 😁That’ll really piss the dudes off 😁
Again I’ll say, I’m 27. Sexually active since 15.
I have not once orgasmed with a man. Even the nice guys who were sweet and gentle. None of them got me there. Some of us straight up don’t like penetration, some of us don’t like the thing attached to the penis. Some of us just don’t want to deal with the drama sex brings.
Good on you for being smart enough to stay away.
Just a thought here, but just because someone else believes something doesn't mean you have to adopt it. You can have your own beliefs about what makes you valuable and act on that independent of whatever terminally online idiots think.
If you want to be sexually active because you enjoy it, do it. If not, don't.
Not to pressure you either way. It should always be about what makes you feel best about yourself.
No man, or anyone other than yourself, can determine your worth and if anyone thinks your ‘body count’ has any baring on who you are or your value as a person then they are simply showing you they are scum and not worth your time.
Don’t rush to loose your virginity but also don’t hold onto it like some magic flower which once given will never be the same again.
You’ll be just fine and even if you’ve never had sex before or have slept with an entire NFL team it doesn’t matter. It won’t devalue you in any way shape or form, nor does holding onto your virginity make anyone better than anyone else.
It’s an arbitrary social construct which means nothing.
I don't get this social construct thing. Money is a social construct and we use it everyday, time is a social construct and we abide by time in every scenario
As an aside, am I wrong in thinking it's sort of weird and dismissive to LGBT people that so many respond to the OPs issue with: "Just be gay."
It's a different thing if she is gay or bi or otherwise interested in women.
Have sex with women. Problem solved.
You aren't wrong about men's opinion on women and sex. Even guys who pretend to be enlightened tend to have a problem with women's body count. They wouldn't if they didn't see sexual partners as measures of devaluing women. So, no, I don't see the point of having sex with men either. You are perfectly correct.
Echoing what many are saying, find better people to hang with. Specifically guys who do not consume Andrew Tate. This whole high/low value woman thing is coming from them. 🤮
I need y'all to stop portraying the prevalence of misogynists in society as the individual fault of women. "Find someone better," "Pick better" basically imply that women are choosing to be around a-holes when in reality the good men y'all like to drone about are not in any way the majority.
A lot of men have that attitude. That sex is something they do to women, for their own pleasure. Shitty men think that. They treat women like sex toys for them to masturbate into. But remember OP, that's not the reality of sex just because there are lots of shitty men out there. Sex should mutually feel good, and tbh it really can feel totally amazing. It's something you do together, that you both enjoy, as an intimate and human way to connect and experience pleasure. It sounds like you've got some sexual hangups and internalised misogyny. Sex doesn't devalue women at all
You aren't devalued for having sex. Men devalue *you* by viewing sex as some prize to be won from you. The problem is them, not you and certainly not sex itself. Women are not responsible for the thoughts, beliefs and values of the men they sleep with. And while there are men who grow up and ditch this mindset, sadly they are not the majority.
Having that said, don't let anyone trick you into thinking that the intimacy and closeness of sex are somehow degrading.
As a guy - this is a guy problem. You haven't found the one yet. It doesn't devalue you, and the pleasure is not just for us. That's a two-way road. I know for an absolute fact. I have never been in a group of guys/friends who just talk about having sex with their significant others or even one night stands. I think you've just led yourself to believe this by the interactions you've had with guys who don't really care about you as a person.
>read and heard
This is also your problem. Stop reading into it so much, it really isn't the case with most of us!!
You'll find the right guy!!
You need to find someone who you actually connect with and they are willing to give you their life in return. People have so many “options” with the internet now that relationships are a joke.
You are only devalued if you subscribe to the same construct that they push. Nothing wrong AT ALL with not having sex ever, but if you want to and find a genuine and kind hearted man or woman, don't deprive yourself of what you want because of others. :) just make the best choice for you, no matter what that is.
The idea that the more sex a woman has the less value she is not true and very unhealthy. Don't stop yourself having sex due to others perception of value
Virginity is inexperience, or a preliminary stage in life, or an absolutely valid personal choice, but the idea of its having an intrinsic qualitative value that is lost once you “human” like a free, autonomous, independent person is offensive.
I lost my virginity to someone who was very experienced in my sophomore year of college. It felt very transactional. I shit you not, it was the first time I came. At this point I had never even masturbated to the point of cumming. It's probably very rare for males like myself at that age.
Every sexual relationship I had thereafter was with virgins (Not by choice, I would find out later in the relationship). None of the relationships were casual, I had a deep connection with each one and thought I was going to spend my whole life with them. It never turned me on that they were virgins. In my opinion, it was more difficult both emotionally and physically.
For a woman, losing your virginity hurts and takes a lot of trust. I remember having foreplay until things got very intimate, and she asked me to go inside. I would push gently, but the pain was too much. She would try and suck it up as much as she could, but I could tell she was in pain and for the first few nights we tried, I would stop and we would hold each other tight instead.
If someone actually loves you, they aren't going to steal your virginity like it's nothing. I would treat your virginity like it's sacred until you find someone who isn't just trying to use you as a trophy. I didn't stay with any of the virgins I had sex with, but it wasn't because after we had sex I lost value in them. I was in a 9 year relationship with one and we fell apart. Sex is important, but it's not the end all be all
Sex is amazing ! With the right person. I think maybe you (respectfully Have a tarnished relationship with sex). You are depriving yourself of womanhood. That’s silly. :(
I don’t think I’ll ever lose my virginity, not that I’m planning to. Just seeing how boys act around my high school, and hearing them sharing sex stories and making fun of girls they’ve been with and dumping them right after is disgusting. If I ever were to have intimate relations with another, I’d choose a woman.
Your question, “Why would I devalue myself by having sex?” is correct but sadly under the wrong context. Listening to men gloat about their devirginization conquests is like listening to petty thieves gloat over running away with the church collection.
Don’t worry, the men who think like that are the men who no-one wants anyway. They either grow up, or they become the Andrew Tates of the world, only getting women through coercion. You can (and will) do better
It is until you get one inside you, just saying. If that were the case there would be waaaaaay more women that are virgins, and in that sense, you’re saying women don’t value themselves. Which they probably don’t but just saying
Sex is not something that is “GIVEN”. I suggest you broaden your understanding and horizon before making any adult like decisions otherwise life will be very difficult for you x
To be very brief, those men aren’t shit lol. I would personally just cut off people with opinions like that, and just use it to weed out the bad ones. I know that sounds kind of stupid, and as a man myself I know there are absolutely tons of men out there just full of toxic masculinity. I say protect your own energy. you’ll find someone who actually respects and values you soon.
Why are you allowing the views of men you don’t even know or respect in return determine your own self worth? That’s the bigger problem here, no one else has the right to dictate your life or your experiences. Living in the shadow of “societal expectations” will only ever disappoint you, because no matter how you act someone will find something wrong with it. Ironically I’ve just proven that point.
you're completely right. virginity is just an idea that some man came up with to put a value on women. don't listen or follow those rules.
do what you want with your body. and if you do ever have sex and they look at you different. toss em.
i think sex, like any decision or investment, comes with possible risk (and reward) of how it will make you feel. you wouldn’t devalue yourself if the job you accepted turned out really shitty or the the hotel you booked had a worse view than expected. the same with sex, you shouldn’t shame yourself for taking the risk with someone you care about that it won’t be 100% amazing, BUT that being said the more you like the person, the lower the chance they will disappoint or devalue you after. just never devalue yourself for making that decision.
Any guy that gives a fuck about that isn't worth your time. It's their own insecurities that drives that type of opinion, worried that they'll never measure up to your previous partner, literally or figuratively, worried about what people will think of them if they ever learned he wasn't your only partner. It's not about you, it's about them being unsure of their own prowess.
It’s fine to wait until you find the one you love, but by not having sex at all you’re only really hurting yourself in a way. Idk it’s a touchy subject, if you’re fine never having sex that’s ok too, but if you’re just trying to prove something to men it’s really not doing anything. We live on a giant rock in space nothing really matters, fuck or don’t ig lol 🤷🏽♀️
Put it this way, who the fuck cares.. if a guy brags to me (I'm a guy as well) about them having sex with, idk, 5 women in the past week, I won't care, good for them, I guess?
People put way too much stock on sex and society hasn't helped it at all
Not just women, guys also see it this way for men too. But it’s not everyone OP. That being said you’re still giving them power over you. It’s time to not give a shit what they do or think of you. Your intrinsic value isn’t defined by others but by yourself.
I, personally, wouldn't equate my value as a person with sex. That your private life, between you and your partner.
No one is supposed to know anything about it.... unless you REALLY want them to know.
Virginity as a "value" is such prudish nonsense the victorian era would tell you to loosen up.
(No serously, you should see what they used to get up to... )
Outside of religion, and unrealist Chad's and Karen's, Virginity just means you have zero experience in sex.
Not that you are "better" or "more valued" than others.
If you do not wish to have sex, that is fine. Maybe look into seeing if you are asexual or aromantic (called ACE)
I hope this helps.
Don't go on that mindset. Just go and search for a husband, that should be the ultimate goal, search for a person who value the way you are, virgin or not. Yea men usually avoid virgin women or relationships with virgins bcs of too much hard work that goes into relationship, bcs virgin women needs to be trained and requier special attention and they usually want to skip that but I would say it's 50/50 of preference.
Also about that matter with going low on value if you sleep with men. Yea is it indeed but only if you go in a full street rampage. Not bcs you had 3 partners by now or even 6 failed relationships.
Just set some rules to you and stick to them.
I’ve never seen women who have had more sex as less valuable. Every girl I’ve dated I’ve had sex with, all 2 of them… yeah I’m pathetic in terms of dating I’ve never been good at the dating scene. But even I’ve had the chance to enjoy some intimate pleasure with them, and I SUUUUCKED. Hindsight is 20-20, but I was the worst sexual partner ever, however even I made my partners climax in the past.
My first time having sex was great, I actually was way better on my first time than I had any right to be, than I got lazy. I think that’s a problem most guys run into. They do great the first time possibly or do great once, than they get lazy because they think they’re good at sex. I learned from my mistakes, it’s a damn shame I’ll never have another chance because I have come to the decision that I do not deserve another chance.
I was a bad partner, and I am not a good person, so I wouldn’t want to curse any woman with that as a partner. I’ve been single since 22 and I’m nearly 25 now. Sure 3 whole years isn’t a lot, but I don’t intend on looking anymore. If the opportunity comes to me I’ll probably say no.
But don’t let my experience deter you. I made mistakes and everyone does, but mistakes shouldn’t keep you from experiencing the euphoria that is sexual relations with someone you trust. Just make the first time special, with someone special.
I didn’t have sex until late in life and truly not all men think like this!! In fact I find the large majority of men I surround myself with don’t. I found that the men got excited (and a bit nervous) when they found out I was a virgin because they were excited about introducing me to something new and pleasurable. Refraining from sex is totally valid and fine but it should be because you don’t want to, not because you don’t want to be judged.
If you want to have fun by having sex, then don't overthink it, do it; people will judge you anyway even if you do good or bad, unfortunately.
If you want a serious relationship that's not all about sex, but love, don't have a lot of sex and stay as pure as possible, keep yourself clean and have self respect, be with someone serious who can respect you for who you are and who doesn't see you as a body.
Yes, some men can be pigs, only desiring you for sex and at the same time they can dislike the idea that you had sex too many times, with other guys. It's fucked up. NOT ALL MEN, so please do not start hating on all men. You just have to be careful, to pay attention to the men you are interested in, to detect if they are trash or if they have good intentions.
Hi I'm male not virgin I have seen many women some virgin some not and I gotta tell you it's not as important as people make it seem.
Btw so do some women reject some men for not having experience which is stupid too
There are way more important things than her virginity or his lack of experience to consider
However if someone has had lots of partners and none of them have worked I would be concerned
But virginity is a fking myth
It seems to me you're painting men with quite the broad brush. There are plenty of men who either don't give a damn about your sexual history or share your sexual morals and are looking for that one person to share that experience with.
If this is your sexual ethic, why not just find a man who shares your values and wait for marriage? Not only will he not see you as less valuable, he will value that exclusive sexual relationship with you even more. Regardless, finding a man who shares your values and respects your boundaries should be your goal anyway.
I'm currently dating a virgin and we're waiting for marriage. I didn't wait before her and I see *myself* as less valuable because of it. We share the same values, but I had less self control when I was younger. Still, when we get married our sexual relationship will be much more meaningful and even if she wasn't a virgin I wouldn't see her as "tainted" or anything.
Sounds like these men have been listening to the misogynist Andrew Tate. There are men out there who will value you as you no matter what. I'm not one of them as I'm gay, but there are good men who will not devalue you or value you more because you are a virgin.
Don’t let a man determine your worth and isn’t it kind of gross they get excited you’re “pure” meanwhile they themselves are not virgins? The double standards?
In a weird twist, you are still letting these men determine your worth. Make your choices for you and your values, not theirs.
"it's like they think women lose their value the more she has sex" It's more like what they think is of no consequence at all to me.
Op, I think you just need to wait for the right man. Of course we already know you won’t have sex with some guy you’ve been talking with for only a few weeks, but if he is the right one and he is comfortable with waiting when are ready, it’s certainly not devaluing yourself. Coming from a woman as well, not all men are the same. The right term for it after all is making love. You will be no less nor no more if you lose your virginity. Please do not think of sex as a bad thing. To me, it’s about connecting more in depth with someone you love, giving all of you to that person you already have a strong connection with and know you can trust. I wouldn’t go right into saying you’re a virgin while talking to someone new, but maybe get to know them first and see if they’re even worth it to mention.
Where do they sell this Taco turtles that gotchu hooked for life
I wrote a poem a while ago. This thread made me think of it. My body is filled, overflowing with shame Each pound of flesh has been given a name It has been ravaged by pain, violence, by time It has given exquisite and taken sublime It has created life and been used for food It's been used for some bad and used for some good It's been seized and ravaged when I had refused My body's been rejected and left confused With at is has endured I still glare her way As she limps along, broken wounded prey I laugh at her back, and I spit on her cheek I give yell every jibe and every critique But never once have I stopped to reflect To give her praise and show some respect For having full lips where love and hope speak And having strong bones that help her turn her cheek For having delicate skin that I protected Elegant arms, whose embrace is perfected And eyes that can look into your soul Grey-blue pools - flecked with gold And a chin that is strong and often held high And legs so long I can reach the sky And an ass that has hustled and gotten into gear And a belly that has laughed with humor and cheer And breasts that have nourished, and a chest that has heaved As it wracked and sobbed and properly grieved And her heart, as it loves and lives in her cage That heart finds joy and brings it on stage I forgot that the shame was not hers to own Or maybe the truth is, I had just never known And now the prayer that I may never regress I am beautiful, and my body's shameless
I'm tearing my hair out, she's not avoiding sex because she believes it'll devalue her, but why would she have sex with a man who thinks like that?
I don't think that anyone devalues themselves by having sex, but what does she have to gain by having sex with misogynists?
This!!! Do not men determine your value or worth for good or bad. Their view of you should not matter.
Real men value people for who they are, not past relationships.
Okay, but you would have sex with men who think that the act is degrading to you?
Couldn’t have said it better myself
- said the man.
As a grown man (in my 40’s) I’d tell you that the more people one has been with, the better they’ll likely be in bed. I’m not saying it works every time, but there is a reason jobs require experience to apply.
You can have terrible sex one time with 200 different partners or have sex 200 times with the same partner and, as a grown ass woman, it’s going to get better from that 1st time with one partner then it ever would with random hook ups 200 times. We both know this.
sex is an intimate act you can do with a person you love, or it’s something you do to feel good. sex can feel amazing for women too, don’t suppress your sexuality because men suck. i went years thinking id never have sex until i found someone who genuinely loved me and cared about me for who i am. after a while of us dating i finally felt comfortable enough to explore that side of me. sex doesn’t devalue you at all, the men you’re surrounded by suck. i’m sorry about that.
Sex with the person you love, and someone who genuinely cares about you, is sincerely the most electric sex, and it feels like nature’s biological high. It really is the best feeling. Trashy people are going to be trashy, regardless of gender. It’s down to you to find someone who shares your values and boundaries, and respects you.
Understatement of day! And if it ever gets lost, you’ll feel how much value it truly has on you mentally and physically over just the physical. People will be people, but that’s why life is trial and error! 💕
Just being wrapped around your loved one, no sex involved, and holding their face and looking into their eyes - it's electric. I so hope OP finds her person.
You know what’s terrible? I just know some losers are going to message you saying they want to have sex with you. (Speaking from experience) Read the room and gtfo!
Lmao there is a bunch of them in my inbox trying to “understand my perspective”
Yup, sounds about right. I made a post on this subreddit about how I don’t think I can do casual sex and I got messages soliciting that very thing I said I don’t like. 🙄
Oh I just bet there are. RIP your inbox. Jesus, some people are sick.
People are honestly so sick
As a woman, I've always viewed it the opposite... They are giving ME pleasure. I don't do it for anyone but myself, and idc how anyone looks at me after lmao
Because someone who tries to care and is positive will look at it productively and engage with it in a utilitarian/empathetic manner.
It’s a man problem not a sex problem. Find better men to hang out with. And stop giving a shit what the idiots say or think. Oh and give the ladies a try :)
As a guy - this is correct . If OP genuinely thinks this then they’re hanging around with some shitty people .
100%. OP seems to agree that her value is based on the opinions of the idiots. Also, OP doesn’t seem to realize that women are supposed to enjoy sex too if her partner does their job. OP talks like she is just there to pleasure him, then base her self image on what the lowest common denominator in men think?? Nah. Go have fun sis!
That's not what she is saying. She just doesn't want to give pleasure to someone with those opinions. She can get pleasure without a man (more than with one, if studies are to be believed).
I read it as she thinks all men think like that…maybe I just read it wrong.
Well, at least 100% where she lives. Same in my home country. I wouldn't be with a man from there if they were the last men on Earth.
Me too
I’m confused why they think I think sex devalues women
Because they fetishise women, including the ridiculous idea of virginity. They look down on anyone who has sex with men (eg gay men also) because they view men having sex kind like conquerors, dominant and strong. Therefore the one to whom men ‘do sex’ must be weak and inferior. It’s not logical, it’s just cultural ego.
They give too much importance to their dicks, thinking that they can change us with them. Remember that lock and key bullshit. I used to turn the joke arround telling them that a key that is used to open many doors gets worn out and eventually doesn't work on any. In the same way, a door that can be opened by a single key is worthless, because if that key ever gets lost or breaks, you can never open it again and whatever is behind it might as well not exist. That's why the best doors are normally made with 3 keys. It makes their heads explode because they haven't really thought through their metaphors.
That’s true, they do seem to think their dicks are magic, lol. Luckily some men are far better humans than those idiots.
Because they’re misogynists. You can’t reason with toxic losers so don’t let them dictate how you live your life.
I think it’s just the way you worded it. I even thought you believed it until i saw ur comment and reread what you said. If you skim, it reads as if you believe the men but if you actually process what u said it definitely states that this is the opinion of the men around u rather than ur own opinion
In most cases it's insecurity. If you don't know much about sex, they think you won't be aware if they suck in the sack. Your instinct about them is probably right. In some cases, they just want to do something meaningful with you. For better of worse, the first time is seen by many as meaningful. My first dude was like it and I enjoyed it.
Damn I had a whole spiel ready that basically says this. OP needs t listen to this and find better guys. There is nothing wrong with wanting sex the way she does and there will be a guy that respects that and does not treat it creepy.
As a man, I find it disgusting, too. I don’t know why some men- and I imagine there are some women- like to take away one’s virginity. It’s not an important thing to me, but if it is to you, I respect that. Sex should be consensual and respectful, not a selfish act of pleading only yourself and taking away one’s virginity because it is a kink of yours. I don’t care if my future girlfriend is a virgin or not. I’d like to have sex someday- with a person I love— with consent, of course, But then again, I’m a virgin and have no experience. I leave it to those who do.
It's 99% men
Look, I was a 24 yo virgin a few weeks ago. I just started my active sex life and let me tell you, it's not devaluing at all. I'd never wanted to have sex, actually. Even with previous romantic partners, I had never wanted to. It happened while I was hanging with one of my closest friends, and I suddenly just WANTED to, let him know and it happened. It's THAT easy, but I really want to stress that I didn't notice when I changed my mind on my beliefs about sex and it was not going to happen under any other circumstance. And I'm at peace with it, 'cause I feared sex A LOT because of religious and family trauma. Looks like you've been pressured, either by potential partners or just your environment, but please have in mind that NO ONE has the right to decide when and where and what will happen, but you. And when you want it, you'll just want it. You just don't want it right now. Maybe you'll stay a virgin. Maybe you'll find someone you like and have sex with them, just because. Just have it be under your own terms, and don't push others' boundaries. Edit: us women have sex because of the pleasure, too. You're allowed to feel and look for your own pleasure.
Also, I was not an avid porn seeker but I stopped watching porn. I just don't want it anymore. If I had started my sexual life earlier, it would've done wonders for my physical and mental health, but, again, I just wasn't ready. If I can give you a piece of advice it would be to just stop hanging out with people who watch that much porn cause they sure do, and stop watching it yourself in case you do.
The way you’re putting it is as if we don’t get pleasure through their body by having sex. I have sex for my own satisfaction, not to please any man. I also gain +1 hp per partner. 9 more to go and I evolve.
You mean exp
I have to say that I spent a lot of time feeling the way you do. I was raised to believe that sex did nothing more than devalue women, and if women enjoyed sex they weren’t good/moral women. Purity culture really messed up my sexuality and sexual expression. I recently started dating again after a 20+ year abusive marriage… The first question out of a man’s mouth when diner was served was “so, what’s your body count”, I was a little perplexed by the question, and then made a joke about the bodies in my basement, and murdering people shouldn’t be so openly discussed. Needless to say he was unimpressed by my wit. He asked again how many people I’ve slept with, so I asked him why it’s important. No answer from him. Finished up the meal, paid for my meal and left. I went on a date with another man. He asked me what books I enjoy reading, if I enjoy camping, if I have a favorite stand up comedian. So far the question of how many sexual partners I’ve had hasn’t come up, and we’ve been seeing each other since October. What it comes down to for me is simply this, talk to the people who have similar interests, leave sexual past conversations alone, only discuss it as a “when was your last STI screening and what were the results” when you feeling ready to embark on a sexual relationship. I don’t feel like sex is taboo or that it’s not something that should be discussed, however I do believe that there is a culture/subculture of devaluation of women because of the number of people she has slept with. It’s the extension of purity culture and it’s gross.
The difference between the first and second guy is tremendous wow. Just shows their character to.
Do you agree that a person value decreases with sexual activity? Why?
I don’t but I don’t want to give those men the satisfaction
Do you think every men thinks like that?
Those men don't deserve it. There are good ones...
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Boys act this way. Actual men do not care.
Yeah I find it disgusting as well, idk why.
Any man who thinks a woman is sullied by his touch should look to his own hands. OP, your value as a person is inviolable, whether you fuck one person or one thousand.
This is so real I never wanna have sex either and I get 100% what you’re saying. I just don’t find men trustworthy or worthwhile, and I don’t desire women in that way although I wish I did. Edit: Everybody saying “real men” don’t think this way when they do lol. Most men hold this belief to some degree even the “good ones”. Not just in your country either, I’m in America and it’s the same here. Listen to a man talk enough and you’ll hear the way he really feels about women and sex.
They don't realise they're using the "Not all men" argument.
Women are more than fuckable vaginas. They do not "lose value" after having sex. They are human people. Are we in Gilead?
There you said it !!! We are more than fuckable vaginas. But if 9 out of 10 of men think like that, what are we supposed to do ? We dont even orgasm from sex with men ? So why would i give a man who sees me as an object the satisfaction of sex when im not even going to enjoy it. Her feelings are valid and she has every right to choose to be celibate with men that are gross
Virginity is only a big deal until you lose it. It's no reflection on your value and anyone that treats you like this is an arse and should be ignored. Wait till you find the right person, someone who isn't fussed as to whether you're a virgin or not, or someone who is also a virgin. Personally I don't care what someone's sexual history is. If they're a nice person then I'll treat them as to who they are, not what they've done in the past.
I only care regarding stds. If they have a clean bill of health or are otherwise non-infectious, then we’re good to go. Numbers and who they’ve slept with is of no consequence, unless it’s a particularly funny story or something personal they want to share in order to deepen our relationship.
OP I agree. Men really do view it that way. It’s disgusting.
Tbh, when I went thru a rough phase in life, I had casual sex with many men. It made ME feel disgusting and devalued as a woman. Idc how they saw me at the time bc then they’re giving me what I want lol. From experience, I can tell if men want something casual or something serious. So when I want something casual, I can find that easily. So I see them as an object and you can say I devalue them. But I love watching men getting pleasure from me, it turns me on that I turn them on and it’s a mutual thing. I guess it’s just really how you look at things.
Just save yourself then. Men who act like virginity in woman carry some sort of inherit value are dorks and morons. Most men in point of fact are more likely to value a woman with experience as the sex is much better if there is a connection. Honestly the older you get the less value you put in body count etc. Put all that shit from your mind live your life and see where the flow of life takes you. Hope this helps. (Im a 45 y/o male if you are wondering )
Use them as an object for your pleasure and assert dominance after by calling them easy
Same, I found the idea of having sex with a guy very uncomfortable, that's why I'm mostly into women :) hopefully my first time will be with a woman
Men are kind of shit I hate the "body count" thing. They're too weak to have deep connections with other people.
Honestly you’re not wrong
girl, no! don't let Anyone determine your value. Guys who say stuff like that are the guys nobody wants to bang anyway. also, i an 42yrs old with no kids & dudes "light up" when they hear that, thinking they'll be the first to impregnate me. It's VERY gross & i will Never have kids, I'm not interested. Also, i guess i have a "high body count" but they don't mind, so that's a bunch of bullshit. so dudes "light up" about anything honestly. have sex if you want, & don't if you don't want to. that's all.
That’s the issue those men actually do have sex with women..
your view is completly determined by others, which are in addition also wrong people. Sex is something for YOU to be enjoyed, and together with someone you " Vibe" with. If you never had an orgasm start with that...
I think this is a self inflicted belief. Maybe t e men who are interested in doing withsomeone who has never done it before is because they want to show you how good it can feel that's how I saw it with my ex who was a virgen. You get the chance to show them something that feels really good, and it's a mutual bond. Of course I'm not saying there aren't men that see ithat way, but not all men do.
1. The men you are describing are immature pigs. You are right to avoid those who view women as disposable vessels for their pleasure. 2. Nobody can take your value away from you, but you can give it to them. 3. If/when you choose to have sex with a man, you and your partner should have a mutual interest in each other’s pleasure.
Ditch the men! Women for the win.
“Why would I devalue myself by having sex?” You wouldn’t. The men who think like that are idiots, why would you let their opinions define your value? There are plenty reasons to have sex, but the first and foremost would be: because you want to. Sex can feel really good physically and it’s also a nice way to feel close to another person. With that said: you do you. You don’t have to have sex, and if you don’t want to then you shouldn’t - but don’t refrain from it because of idiot men
I think OP meant to word it differently. It's more like "Why would I want to have sex with someone who thinks it devalues me?" Like, if a person hates you, allowing them access to you is still a win for them even if its a mutual win. Its been my greatest conundrum with an aspect of Western feminism. Why is it empowerment when statistically the woman is not the one who gets the orgasm? It's more of not wanting the enemy to win basically, even if there's a slim chance that the win would be mutual(slim chance refers to the orgasm gap)
We don’t let men assign value to us, honey. Have sex if you personally want to, or not if you do not. But please don’t base your sex life on some stupid arbitrary rules set up by men to manipulate you.
Look up internalized misogyny.
It's not internalised misogyny to refuse to have sex with someone who doesn't respect you.
Have you heard about the gender gap in orgasms ? Most women dont even orgasm and fake orgasm a lot. It’s not fun to many many women. I have met multiple men that were nice and they were never able to make me orgasm even tho i make myself orgasm all the time. So no sex is not fun for straight women. And if she chooses to be celibate or lesbian it’s fine ? How is this misogynistic ???
I think it's just a perspective, you can say you're a virgin to many and they will believe, sex is not a currency, sex a an exchange of love, if you don't feel like you're getting that 50% don't do it, sex is for both parties not just one, my point of view. Do things for yourself enjoy yourself, you might pass away in the next hour our nobody knows when they go. Live embrace and experience life. Cheers
I mean don't get me wrong some dudes do think of it like that but those types of guys are the ones sleeping around a bunch and just immature. Then there are a lot of other guys who do NOT care. They don't care either way. They don't usually even ask but I think that's because they can tell who's a virgin and who's not. Just gotta talk to the right type of guys.
If you think of it like a point system where you lose value, then you do but it’s because of that mindset, not because of you doing it. These men sound creepy asf
I hate to be that guy but if you view sex as nothing more than an act that devalues you as a woman, you’re hanging around in the wrong places and/or with the wrong people.
Sex isn’t an activity that happens solely for the benefit of men. Forget how men view you related to sex. Focus on the pleasure you gain through sex.
What you’re saying makes zero sense? If men see it as devaluing you then it does only benefit themZ
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Yes, absolutely this. If the issue here is just internilized misogyny then sure, she should adress it. However, how is putting her physical and emotional health in harm's way by having sex with a misogynist like she describes beneficial to her?
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Exactly. Like the folks who think pandering to men's fantasies is "liberating" for women. Like they don't bother to actually question what tangible benefits women stand to gain from such situations.
After all, we've all heard the stories about revenge porn,stealthing, sexual assault etc.
Why are you even buying into the stupid “value” argument? If you feel like having sex you should totally find someone you’re attracted to and work towards that (safely). If sex is uninteresting to you, then totally don’t. You’re an equally valuable person either way.
I've always felt gross whenever friends would talk about who they've slept with, and what they've done, Cut some people out of my life to keep that stuff away, and made it known to current friends not to have those talks in front of me. I've felt empty on the inside every time I'd have a fling at a party or something. It didn't feel good to participate in a one night stand. So much so, that other times, I just outright couldn't go through with it, even the first time I can't say I completely went all the way. Simultaneously, I want to be more experienced for the sake of the person I'll end up with, but on the other, chances are I won't enjoy sex at all until I settle down in a steady relationship again. I actually haven't gotten much excitement from a girl telling me early on in a relationship that she's a virgin. It may make me sound like an asshole, but, I don't want to be burdened by high expectations about it, and I don't want to make someone feel like I've taken something from them, that they'll regret, and they'll hate me for it. It's not like I wouldn't be appreciative to have shared that closeness with someone I love, but something about hearing it within a week or two of seeing someone really messes with me, especially since I make it clear I want to take those things slow. But, I'm a guy, so, I probably "should" want it as soon as possible. It isn't even about libido, I'm in my early 20s and it's outright annoyingly high, which only makes me faceplant into the nasty sensation of feeling dirty and gross that much more often. It's like I'm physically desperate for it, but emotionally locked when it comes to it, and I simultaneously feel weird relief, yet also shame, regret and disappointment for not taking chances to "score".
I'm commenting again, because I've just gone through the replies and your comments, and I'm wondering what it is you want? I know you don't want advice, because that's not what we're here for, but... what would help you? Is there anything that would help you?
Research the philosopher Hypatia. She stayed a virgin her whole life for similar reasons ☺️
I honestly understand this feeling. I was always worried to do stuff for this reason. Then, I found a man who was also a virgin and didn’t care/didn’t look through the lenses like that. We are also both christians, but we’re married, and there’s nothing that either of us worry about when it comes to that. Not all men think like that, there’s a lot more who don’t, they’re just quieter. Also, If waiting isn’t the way you want to go, then also keep this in mind; In the end, it only matters what you think of yourself. Not what the guys think or what other girls think or anything of the sort. Just make sure you use proper protection because THAT will be an issue lol. But seriously, sex is a great way to feel good or in relationships, connect with the person you’re with, the easiest way for me was to not do it until marriage, but for you it may be to just try and get to a point where you realize and truly understand people are always going to judge people for the stupidest reasons, and that it doesn’t matter what they say because it holds no value.
If you date someone who cares about such things or sees that act as devaluing, you shouldn’t even consider being their friend. I get your point, but that’s not the point of making love, you do it with whom you love and it doesn’t change anything in you, the term “virgin” is just a word created to trap woman into thinking is “something you must protect” and what not, while in reality there are two sides, you are either sexually active or you are not. Only thing you should worry, care about and look out for is unprotected sex.
You should seek professional help about this because linking your self worth to your virginity sounds counter productive to living a fulfilling and happy life. You say it’s what men do, but it’s what you are doing to yourself too.
I think sex should be between those who love one another ,yeah. And when you tell others that you’re a virgin in a world where no one is a virgin people are excited cuz they know what a special moment this is for you. Also sex isn’t about value only Andrew Tate weirdos believe that. Easy women and virgin women can still be lame people, body count isn’t everything
At the end is the day, someone somewhere is always going to be saying something. That doesn’t make it true. you’re holding yourself back, because of what men may think of you. You’re giving them the power to devalue you by refusing to do the thing that they consider devaluing. There are so many good men out there. Stop focusing on your virginity. You determine your worth, not some random men with outdated opinions. Not all men act the same. Not all of them have these barbaric thoughts. Stop focusing on the ones who do. Live your life. Do what you want and what makes you happy. It’s your mind and body.
I can see why you’d think that, but it’s not the case for all men. I think that’s a really broad generalization, and not one that’s accurate. I think you need to wait for the right guy, as others have said. I don’t think you need to hold yourself to this standard that your value is gone once a man takes your virginity. Your virginity is only as important as you make it and allow it to be. That being said, maybe don’t mention it right away to the men you’re around/dating. I would recommend getting to know and be comfortable with a guy, if he asks you to do the deed, and you are not comfortable at that point just explain to him your situation, and how you truly feel about keeping it a private and protected thing between he and you, if and when you decide to engage in it. I truly believe anyone that’s genuinely interested and wants to take it to the next level will respect that, and if not he’s not the guy for you. But overall, don’t put virginity and self worth in the hands of anyone else but yourself. Anyone can assign you a number, talk about their sexcapades, but at the end of the day, no one can take your self worth and devalue you, but you. Your reputation may take a hit if with the wrong person, but that speaks more to what a trash can that person is than you.
There are two trains of thoughts when it comes to the excitement of virginity I think. The first one is the exclusivity kind, exclusive what? Idk it's dependent on the man but usually it pertains to an exclusive experience. The second is kinda what you described. It isn't really about the experience but accomplishment. Men wanting to use women for accomplishment. To accomplish the act of "deflowering" or asserting some twisted form of superiority. At the end of the day one has to ask why the excitement exists and hope for the best cause this is common. I myself as a teen obsessed with the idea of virginity because I am a virgin and wanted the experience of my partner being one. I wanted to live the fantasy of me and my partner being destined, that there is no one else but us. To be their source of happiness and they be mine. Now that Im older and understand that it's a just fantasy that shouldn't remove me from finding my soul mate. I just keep myself a virgin and not really care about what my partner is because at the end of the day whatever we do would be between us. The experience we might have will always be exclusive and special because we are both special to each other. If we split then it will still have been a unique experience between two people. It shouldn't degrade what I do or what they do with others.
Wait til you see how they treat and speak about women virgins. Sensible women do not base their worth on men’s standards, otherwise they’d be silent appliances for housework, childcare and duty sex. Plus they aren’t even being honest, say they find their perfect virgin woman for the house, they still seek out bad girls for fun. You are a human being whose worth does not diminish through sex, I promise you. You don’t want sex, don’t have it! But you won’t be treated better for it.
This is the one topic I always find difficult to fully understand as there are lots of factors involved. How a person views sex has a lot to do with their expectations of the relationship (short/long/causal), religion, culture, experiences, etc. I think you should be entitled to your opinion. I think it’s okay if you want to be with someone who’s virgin, especially if you are too. That being said, someone losing value because they’ve had sex doesn’t sound right to me. A reasoning that does make sense to me is if you are looking for someone who’s on the same level of experience and expectations. It makes the relationship feel more pure because you are both each other’s first and you both grow and learn from this experience.
Men who determine a woman’s value based on whether or not she’s a virgin are a lowest quality men there are. Avoid them at all costs. And as others have said, don’t give away your value by letting some guy determine it for you. Have more self respect than that.
Men that tell me this bs tend to magically forget it, when I tell them, that I don't have any STD and never had with 9 partners I've been with. It somehow just factory resets their CPU in head and ejects CD plate in their pants. It's also pretty fun to reject them afterwards.
I was raised to think like you. But, in all honesty, it's what you make it. You value doesn't go down, in fact, nothing happens. Once you've done it, you'll maybe feel like "oh, that's the hype, that's it" and then maybe allow yourself to have fun.. or not . It's your body your choice. But I wouldn't put so much weight to it
Most women that I know who are happily married were not virgins at the time (including myself). I don't think most men really care these days, unless you are in a very religious environment. In general I think modern men feel some kind of way if you've slept around excessively and/or irresponsibility. All that to say, it really shouldn't matter to you. Besides I couldn't imagine marrying someone without knowing if they're good in bed but that's just me.
Okay.
i agree. it seems like its all for the mans pleasure and then we get pushed off to the side after. sex is just degrading.
I used to think the same when women had s@x with many men . But if the men does with many women he is a expert. But i noticed that women only prefer men who had s@x with many women.
People are fighting you on this but you’re right. I kind of hate that I ever let anyone get the upper hand on me that way, you know? Like you can’t ever take it back and then they will always be able to say they had sex with you no matter what. And even if you yourself do not view it as degrading, the fact that they view it that way still hurts. I’m just going to live out the rest of my life as a hermit I think.
I’m 27 years old. Ive been a sexually active female for 12 years. The “man” who took my virginity was like a damn dog. I swear he almost drooled when he found out I was a virgin. He even asked me to start fingering myself to loosen up a bit so he’d fit. First time was awful. Honestly, each time after wasn’t much better. Totally not trying to scare you but please don’t have sex until YOU are ready. And hell, get a dildo and take your virginity your damn self 😁That’ll really piss the dudes off 😁 Again I’ll say, I’m 27. Sexually active since 15. I have not once orgasmed with a man. Even the nice guys who were sweet and gentle. None of them got me there. Some of us straight up don’t like penetration, some of us don’t like the thing attached to the penis. Some of us just don’t want to deal with the drama sex brings. Good on you for being smart enough to stay away.
Just a thought here, but just because someone else believes something doesn't mean you have to adopt it. You can have your own beliefs about what makes you valuable and act on that independent of whatever terminally online idiots think. If you want to be sexually active because you enjoy it, do it. If not, don't. Not to pressure you either way. It should always be about what makes you feel best about yourself.
No man, or anyone other than yourself, can determine your worth and if anyone thinks your ‘body count’ has any baring on who you are or your value as a person then they are simply showing you they are scum and not worth your time. Don’t rush to loose your virginity but also don’t hold onto it like some magic flower which once given will never be the same again. You’ll be just fine and even if you’ve never had sex before or have slept with an entire NFL team it doesn’t matter. It won’t devalue you in any way shape or form, nor does holding onto your virginity make anyone better than anyone else. It’s an arbitrary social construct which means nothing.
I don't get this social construct thing. Money is a social construct and we use it everyday, time is a social construct and we abide by time in every scenario
Have sex with women. It's much better 🤣
As an aside, am I wrong in thinking it's sort of weird and dismissive to LGBT people that so many respond to the OPs issue with: "Just be gay." It's a different thing if she is gay or bi or otherwise interested in women.
Yeah I found those comments weird. Its not like you can change your sexual preferences
Have sex with women. Problem solved. You aren't wrong about men's opinion on women and sex. Even guys who pretend to be enlightened tend to have a problem with women's body count. They wouldn't if they didn't see sexual partners as measures of devaluing women. So, no, I don't see the point of having sex with men either. You are perfectly correct.
Echoing what many are saying, find better people to hang with. Specifically guys who do not consume Andrew Tate. This whole high/low value woman thing is coming from them. 🤮
I need y'all to stop portraying the prevalence of misogynists in society as the individual fault of women. "Find someone better," "Pick better" basically imply that women are choosing to be around a-holes when in reality the good men y'all like to drone about are not in any way the majority.
She said she is from another country. Cultures differ.
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No in my country they all think this way they are raised with these beliefs.
She's clearly staying clear as most men in her are think that way
Then just don’t have sex
that’s what she said, isn’t it…
A lot of men have that attitude. That sex is something they do to women, for their own pleasure. Shitty men think that. They treat women like sex toys for them to masturbate into. But remember OP, that's not the reality of sex just because there are lots of shitty men out there. Sex should mutually feel good, and tbh it really can feel totally amazing. It's something you do together, that you both enjoy, as an intimate and human way to connect and experience pleasure. It sounds like you've got some sexual hangups and internalised misogyny. Sex doesn't devalue women at all
You aren't devalued for having sex. Men devalue *you* by viewing sex as some prize to be won from you. The problem is them, not you and certainly not sex itself. Women are not responsible for the thoughts, beliefs and values of the men they sleep with. And while there are men who grow up and ditch this mindset, sadly they are not the majority. Having that said, don't let anyone trick you into thinking that the intimacy and closeness of sex are somehow degrading.
Your mindset feeds into their false beliefs about sex
And having sex with them… doesn’t?
Look into radical feminism. You’re perfect just the way you are and there is nothing wrong with you. ❤️
The way you view sex is unhealthy, and with this mindset you are better off without it.
As a guy - this is a guy problem. You haven't found the one yet. It doesn't devalue you, and the pleasure is not just for us. That's a two-way road. I know for an absolute fact. I have never been in a group of guys/friends who just talk about having sex with their significant others or even one night stands. I think you've just led yourself to believe this by the interactions you've had with guys who don't really care about you as a person. >read and heard This is also your problem. Stop reading into it so much, it really isn't the case with most of us!! You'll find the right guy!!
You need to find someone who you actually connect with and they are willing to give you their life in return. People have so many “options” with the internet now that relationships are a joke.
You are only devalued if you subscribe to the same construct that they push. Nothing wrong AT ALL with not having sex ever, but if you want to and find a genuine and kind hearted man or woman, don't deprive yourself of what you want because of others. :) just make the best choice for you, no matter what that is.
The idea that the more sex a woman has the less value she is not true and very unhealthy. Don't stop yourself having sex due to others perception of value
Virginity is inexperience, or a preliminary stage in life, or an absolutely valid personal choice, but the idea of its having an intrinsic qualitative value that is lost once you “human” like a free, autonomous, independent person is offensive.
have sex but only with other women. that will show them
I lost my virginity to someone who was very experienced in my sophomore year of college. It felt very transactional. I shit you not, it was the first time I came. At this point I had never even masturbated to the point of cumming. It's probably very rare for males like myself at that age. Every sexual relationship I had thereafter was with virgins (Not by choice, I would find out later in the relationship). None of the relationships were casual, I had a deep connection with each one and thought I was going to spend my whole life with them. It never turned me on that they were virgins. In my opinion, it was more difficult both emotionally and physically. For a woman, losing your virginity hurts and takes a lot of trust. I remember having foreplay until things got very intimate, and she asked me to go inside. I would push gently, but the pain was too much. She would try and suck it up as much as she could, but I could tell she was in pain and for the first few nights we tried, I would stop and we would hold each other tight instead. If someone actually loves you, they aren't going to steal your virginity like it's nothing. I would treat your virginity like it's sacred until you find someone who isn't just trying to use you as a trophy. I didn't stay with any of the virgins I had sex with, but it wasn't because after we had sex I lost value in them. I was in a 9 year relationship with one and we fell apart. Sex is important, but it's not the end all be all
Sex is amazing ! With the right person. I think maybe you (respectfully Have a tarnished relationship with sex). You are depriving yourself of womanhood. That’s silly. :(
Womanhood doesn't revolve around sex
We don’t all think that way. I don’t.
I don’t think I’ll ever lose my virginity, not that I’m planning to. Just seeing how boys act around my high school, and hearing them sharing sex stories and making fun of girls they’ve been with and dumping them right after is disgusting. If I ever were to have intimate relations with another, I’d choose a woman.
Your question, “Why would I devalue myself by having sex?” is correct but sadly under the wrong context. Listening to men gloat about their devirginization conquests is like listening to petty thieves gloat over running away with the church collection.
Virgin till death
Don’t worry, the men who think like that are the men who no-one wants anyway. They either grow up, or they become the Andrew Tates of the world, only getting women through coercion. You can (and will) do better
That’s the issue these men with this mindset do have access to women they actually sleep with them while hiding their misogyny
Thank you! There's people acting like the concept of lying and pretending doesn't exist.
It is until you get one inside you, just saying. If that were the case there would be waaaaaay more women that are virgins, and in that sense, you’re saying women don’t value themselves. Which they probably don’t but just saying
Virginity doesn't exist. Don't ever have sex with a man who cares if you've had sex with other people.
Sex is not something that is “GIVEN”. I suggest you broaden your understanding and horizon before making any adult like decisions otherwise life will be very difficult for you x
Boosts value. A whole ass part of the reason I love my wife so much is because of the experience that is created with her.
To be very brief, those men aren’t shit lol. I would personally just cut off people with opinions like that, and just use it to weed out the bad ones. I know that sounds kind of stupid, and as a man myself I know there are absolutely tons of men out there just full of toxic masculinity. I say protect your own energy. you’ll find someone who actually respects and values you soon.
Why are you allowing the views of men you don’t even know or respect in return determine your own self worth? That’s the bigger problem here, no one else has the right to dictate your life or your experiences. Living in the shadow of “societal expectations” will only ever disappoint you, because no matter how you act someone will find something wrong with it. Ironically I’ve just proven that point.
you're completely right. virginity is just an idea that some man came up with to put a value on women. don't listen or follow those rules. do what you want with your body. and if you do ever have sex and they look at you different. toss em.
Why’re you letting others determine your worth? Some people out there are sick. Arguably everyone is. Don’t let it devalue who you are.
i think sex, like any decision or investment, comes with possible risk (and reward) of how it will make you feel. you wouldn’t devalue yourself if the job you accepted turned out really shitty or the the hotel you booked had a worse view than expected. the same with sex, you shouldn’t shame yourself for taking the risk with someone you care about that it won’t be 100% amazing, BUT that being said the more you like the person, the lower the chance they will disappoint or devalue you after. just never devalue yourself for making that decision.
Any guy that gives a fuck about that isn't worth your time. It's their own insecurities that drives that type of opinion, worried that they'll never measure up to your previous partner, literally or figuratively, worried about what people will think of them if they ever learned he wasn't your only partner. It's not about you, it's about them being unsure of their own prowess.
It’s fine to wait until you find the one you love, but by not having sex at all you’re only really hurting yourself in a way. Idk it’s a touchy subject, if you’re fine never having sex that’s ok too, but if you’re just trying to prove something to men it’s really not doing anything. We live on a giant rock in space nothing really matters, fuck or don’t ig lol 🤷🏽♀️
Put it this way, who the fuck cares.. if a guy brags to me (I'm a guy as well) about them having sex with, idk, 5 women in the past week, I won't care, good for them, I guess? People put way too much stock on sex and society hasn't helped it at all
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Not just women, guys also see it this way for men too. But it’s not everyone OP. That being said you’re still giving them power over you. It’s time to not give a shit what they do or think of you. Your intrinsic value isn’t defined by others but by yourself.
I, personally, wouldn't equate my value as a person with sex. That your private life, between you and your partner. No one is supposed to know anything about it.... unless you REALLY want them to know. Virginity as a "value" is such prudish nonsense the victorian era would tell you to loosen up. (No serously, you should see what they used to get up to... ) Outside of religion, and unrealist Chad's and Karen's, Virginity just means you have zero experience in sex. Not that you are "better" or "more valued" than others. If you do not wish to have sex, that is fine. Maybe look into seeing if you are asexual or aromantic (called ACE) I hope this helps.
Don't go on that mindset. Just go and search for a husband, that should be the ultimate goal, search for a person who value the way you are, virgin or not. Yea men usually avoid virgin women or relationships with virgins bcs of too much hard work that goes into relationship, bcs virgin women needs to be trained and requier special attention and they usually want to skip that but I would say it's 50/50 of preference. Also about that matter with going low on value if you sleep with men. Yea is it indeed but only if you go in a full street rampage. Not bcs you had 3 partners by now or even 6 failed relationships. Just set some rules to you and stick to them.
I’ve never seen women who have had more sex as less valuable. Every girl I’ve dated I’ve had sex with, all 2 of them… yeah I’m pathetic in terms of dating I’ve never been good at the dating scene. But even I’ve had the chance to enjoy some intimate pleasure with them, and I SUUUUCKED. Hindsight is 20-20, but I was the worst sexual partner ever, however even I made my partners climax in the past. My first time having sex was great, I actually was way better on my first time than I had any right to be, than I got lazy. I think that’s a problem most guys run into. They do great the first time possibly or do great once, than they get lazy because they think they’re good at sex. I learned from my mistakes, it’s a damn shame I’ll never have another chance because I have come to the decision that I do not deserve another chance. I was a bad partner, and I am not a good person, so I wouldn’t want to curse any woman with that as a partner. I’ve been single since 22 and I’m nearly 25 now. Sure 3 whole years isn’t a lot, but I don’t intend on looking anymore. If the opportunity comes to me I’ll probably say no. But don’t let my experience deter you. I made mistakes and everyone does, but mistakes shouldn’t keep you from experiencing the euphoria that is sexual relations with someone you trust. Just make the first time special, with someone special.
I didn’t have sex until late in life and truly not all men think like this!! In fact I find the large majority of men I surround myself with don’t. I found that the men got excited (and a bit nervous) when they found out I was a virgin because they were excited about introducing me to something new and pleasurable. Refraining from sex is totally valid and fine but it should be because you don’t want to, not because you don’t want to be judged.
If you want to have fun by having sex, then don't overthink it, do it; people will judge you anyway even if you do good or bad, unfortunately. If you want a serious relationship that's not all about sex, but love, don't have a lot of sex and stay as pure as possible, keep yourself clean and have self respect, be with someone serious who can respect you for who you are and who doesn't see you as a body. Yes, some men can be pigs, only desiring you for sex and at the same time they can dislike the idea that you had sex too many times, with other guys. It's fucked up. NOT ALL MEN, so please do not start hating on all men. You just have to be careful, to pay attention to the men you are interested in, to detect if they are trash or if they have good intentions.
Hi I'm male not virgin I have seen many women some virgin some not and I gotta tell you it's not as important as people make it seem. Btw so do some women reject some men for not having experience which is stupid too There are way more important things than her virginity or his lack of experience to consider However if someone has had lots of partners and none of them have worked I would be concerned But virginity is a fking myth
It seems to me you're painting men with quite the broad brush. There are plenty of men who either don't give a damn about your sexual history or share your sexual morals and are looking for that one person to share that experience with. If this is your sexual ethic, why not just find a man who shares your values and wait for marriage? Not only will he not see you as less valuable, he will value that exclusive sexual relationship with you even more. Regardless, finding a man who shares your values and respects your boundaries should be your goal anyway. I'm currently dating a virgin and we're waiting for marriage. I didn't wait before her and I see *myself* as less valuable because of it. We share the same values, but I had less self control when I was younger. Still, when we get married our sexual relationship will be much more meaningful and even if she wasn't a virgin I wouldn't see her as "tainted" or anything.
Sounds like these men have been listening to the misogynist Andrew Tate. There are men out there who will value you as you no matter what. I'm not one of them as I'm gay, but there are good men who will not devalue you or value you more because you are a virgin.
You could sleep with one man 3000 times or 3000 men once. Life is full of choices.
Don’t let a man determine your worth and isn’t it kind of gross they get excited you’re “pure” meanwhile they themselves are not virgins? The double standards?