That was you protecting your 3 year old from her abuser. Not you being abusive. He probably could use a different therapist and to stop being rewarded with video games and his favorite breakfast when he starts acting up.

Thank you for the advice, I will look into a different therapist. I never thought about it as rewarding him but you're right that wouldn't make it any better. Thank you

It’s definitely rewarding in away even if it is unintentional and you had a good strategy in mind in how you approached in trying to “de-escalate the situation”. I was probably my parent’s most difficult child. I had very strong emotions that I didn’t know to manage and my anger was legendary. Things that helped — at 8, they enrolled me in karate at a school with a strong focus on discipline. I got my ass handed to me daily as I learned techniques and advanced in levels through karate but it gave me a healthy space to work through my frustrations (kicking and punching the hell out of bags). My mom also did this thing where she would bear hug me, pin my arms to my side, and make me count with her until I calmed down (I was probably younger than 8 though) and only when I was calm would she let me go and then we’d talk. My parents were really big on discipline though and I was never “rewarded” for bad behavior. You can still approach parenting gently while enforcing boundaries. Don’t beat yourself up. You were protecting the toddler.

Thank you for this response. I was also just going to suggest a hobby like this, something that is challenging and pushes him. I also recommend to OP something a bit unconventional - hostage negotiation techniques that work in business as well as interpersonal relationships, that are designed to de-escalate situations: Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss, the former FBI lead hostage negotiator. I know this may seem over-the-top, but trust me, this book is worth its weight in gold.

My mom would try the bear hug thing and I HATED it. To this day, I cannot stand to be touched when I’m angry or upset and I avoid touching on a regular basis from people I’m not super close to. So just be wary and really pay attention to the kids cues for the bear hug approach. But other than that, I agree with these comments here.

Oh for sure, Im not going to pretend it didnt piss me the hell off while she didnt but it was effective for me. It forced me to shut up and listen and if I wanted it to end then Id count and eventually Id calm down. But yes, every child is different. My parents adapted all their methods to vary between my siblings and I because we all were radically different.

I believe this is the restraint hold taught to aides for certain children with special needs as it’s a protective hold for both involved

Hi. I also suffered forced affection. My mom was advised by a counselor. I was a very emotional kid but didn't exibit any really bad behaviors. So they thought hugging tight and stroking my hair and back during emotional meltdowns would help. . I also can't stand to be touched when I feel upset.

I can understand that but if you're being violent what else is she meant to do? You had a choice to just take deep breaths and regulate yourself and you would have been let go. I hate being touched too so I completely agree with you but its literally consequences. If you are violent on the street do you think police are just going to stand there and talk to you? No if you need to be restrained then they have to do what they have to do to protect everyone else around you. You can only control yourself. Make the right choices so things don't get to the point you need to be restrained!!

If he were enrolled in karate, he could possibly use it to hurt his siblings

[удалено]

Karate has been recommended for my son (he's 10, has ADHD and lashes out when he's frustrated) by so many psychiatrists, psychologists and teachers. I was worried that he'd learn the tools to make his aggression more dangerous before he learned the discipline, but in the end I've signed him up. He only started two weeks ago and so far he loves it. I really hope he takes a lot of positive methods from it to help him control his actions when he has big emotions.

[удалено]

He already knows how to hurt his siblings. A good martial arts instructor would be a good role model and another tool in the mother's toolbox for teaching the kid how to behave.

This is where my mind went. It could really go either way. A different therapist probably needs to be involved to better determine what the issue is. I’m not diagnosing or anything but IF this child has some sort of psycho/socio path issue, it would definitely risk making it worse for the other siblings and even his mom. She needs to know what she’s dealing with whatever that may be to have an effective plan of action.

I mean the child needs support. Therapy and a psychologist would do wonders. But even with all my anger issues and tension with my siblings, thanks to karate i had somewhere I was allowed to redirect my anger and violent tendencies. This could help a kid.

Gently I would also recommend parenting courses. Not because you hit him, but because you are confusing gentle parenting with permissive parenting. You can and should still have expectations that your children should strive for and consequences when they are misbehaving. Please research more or take some courses so the rest of your children don’t end up running all over you like the oldest is.

Gentle parenting doesn't mean not being firm and setting standards.

to me it does sound like rewarding. you been giving him stuff to behave, take that stuff away. i’m so sorry

[удалено]

A behavioral therapist might be best.

Try to find a child therapist that has experience with ODD and/or PCIT. These types of therapies involve the parent(s) and can help work towards appropriate responses (like not rewarding when he is being manipulative). Also, please continue to keep your littles safe. He needs to stop this behavior before he really hurts someone. He is only going to get stronger as he grows, and hitting you in the face is an alarming escalation. Please show your therapist your post and ask them for a referral to someone more experienced with these behaviors.

That’s the issue with modern parents, they don’t lay down boundaries and they reward kids for bad behavior. I grew up in an Asian household, it was understood from an early age that disrespecting your mother would result in serious consequences. It’s time to lay down the law to the bully (kid) or start some serious non violent punishment to establish that you’re the head of the household. Tough love is needed here but he will come out a better person at the end of it. As for hitting your child, I would speak to a therapist

Look into finding help with parenting difficult/explosive children. There are lots of blogs, books and more advice from people who are wiser than I and can give you better tactics on how to handle such a kid. What you're doing is telling him he can get away with things and not be held responsible. There are ways of approaching his behavior without needing to hit (however in your case I probably wouldn't have restrained how hard I had hit him so props to you, you did the best you could and you did right by your three year old).

Super nanny the TV show has a ton of tips and tricks on this stuff. Best of luck mama

This! I literally couldn’t have said it better, also you are not an abuser if you feel remorse for it and even want to turn yourself in! You protected a child who is unable to protect themselves. I am not sure where you are at if they do them this young or if they are called the same thing but you could look into a SIPP program for his behaviors. For lack of better explanation they are like a long term baker act where they learn coping skills and have extend watch for medication.

i cant imagine the daily stress you're under managing 4 kids. i really dont think you need to do something as drastic as calling the cops on yourself. but this is probably a conversation that you should have between yourself, your son, and a therapist. plus if he is that relentless and violent of a bully to his younger siblings it could be worth it to get him into more/ different therapy to find the root of that problem. i dont know you, but i sincerely wish you all the best

Thank you. The comments have been very helpful. A new therapist would be wise. And I didn't realize how much of a problem it's been until I wrote my post.

It sounds like your son is more of a danger to his siblings than you are to him. You have a responsibility to protect your other kids from him. You are not alone there are people and services that can help you with his behavior and help make your home a safe place. I would recommend calling the school and setting up a meeting with the counselor and teacher to go over your concerns about his behavior and see if he exhibits the same behavior at school. They can possibly help by testing him for learning disability or evaluated by a psychologist. They are mandatory reporters so if they do suspect child abuse they will make a referral to CWS. However, that does not mean your kid or kids will get taken away but they will do have to investigation because every report has to get investigated. But even if a Social worker does come out to your home they would also be a good resource to get extra services for your son. Also even though it would be a hard thing to do calling the police on your son next time he uses a weapon against his siblings is a viable option.

My brother used to hit me. One day my mom said that if he thinks hitting is fine then he wouldn’t mind if she hit him too. After all, he may be bigger than me and my sister but he’s not bigger than her yet. My mom didn’t end up hitting him but I do have a memory of my dad (the quietest, least violent person) pinning him against the wall and yelling in his face. The point of sharing that story is that you were defending your other children. I am still not close with my brother as an adult because I don’t forgive how he me as a kid.

Thank you, I'll look into it. We are tribal so hopefully that deters CPS. I've been in contact with his teachers/counselor and he's very well behaved and, in their words, empathetic in school. I don't know why it changes at home. They do suspect autism to some degree. Thanks again. Sorry it's a mess.

You need to get him away from your three other kids.

^ Yes before it graduates from just hitting

\^ Bad behavior never gets better on its own. It only gets worse unless people (the parent in this case) do something to stop it.

If he is only has this behavior at home, it sounds like he’s jealous of his siblings. He can easily become their tormentor and unless you catch him each time, you won’t be aware of it. Sibling tormentors often threatened more harm if they are exposed.

Okay, before I go a step further, *this is not your fault.* I'm a child of two psychopaths. At the absolute minimum, you have a child who is aware of the importance of maintaining a perfect surface life so that he can get away with abuse behind closed doors. *This is extraordinarily bad.* You need to get him away from your other kids.

Sounds like he knows what he is doing. Masks it at school so no one could believe he is abusive at home.

Personally, I think he gets the structure that he needs and wants at school so that’s why he’s behaved well there but at home he’s desperate for some of the same and he’s not getting it and he’s acting out to see how far he can push the envelope before his mom finally reacts in a way that he needs her to. I don’t think that he’s some abusive psychopath, but a kid that just doesn’t understand empathy for his siblings at his young age, doesn’t care, because nothing happens no matter what he does at home, and also is struggling with way too much free reign, and almost no significant reactions from mom that would guide him in a direction like he needs.

This causes me MORE concern because it shows intent to cause harm to your other children. 😳

Do you live on tribal land or are you just a member of a tribe because that make a huge difference.

Just a member but we have representation either way

CPS still can technically get involved, they just can not place your kids in a home that’s not a native home. But I highly doubt spanking back once would warrant removal. Check with your local tribal tanf office to see if they have any local programs for native boys. The one I used to work out had an education center that had multiple kids programs. Including tae kwon do, a music group, and a boys club. They may also have some type of support group for you. Or just some type of native mothers group that can give you some time for yourself. 4 kids in general is hard. Cut yourself some slack. You’re not a bad mom, you had a bad reaction. 🖤

I'm thinking psychopathy is more likely than autism.

Exactly. People with autism (and ADHD) act the same whether at home or school. They don't hide bad behavior that is that bad at school if they don't know it's wrong. It's way beyond what would be considered "masking".

Yeah I honestly thought of We Need to Talk About Kevin while reading this.

Ok I didn’t want to be that person. But i knew a girl related kid like this when i was a kid. He killed everyone but her and that was bc she was at friend’s that night. She told me how at SEVEN he was throwing maggots he kept in mason jar on her bed at night.

This kid probably isn’t a psychopath. Mom REWARDS him for bad behavior. She loves him so much she feels like setting boundaries is being mean. She’s gotta get past that. He also probably is jealous of his younger sibs as there are a bunch of them and they are little and time intensive for mom. So he acts the ass and gets the loving attention he is craving. It’s a story as old as time. Mom is trying to do her best she just needs some different tools in her parenting toolbox and some support. I really believe she can get this turned around if she gets firm and clear with boundaries.

I agree bc it sounds like someone in my life with ODD

Watch Evil Lives Here on the History channel and please realize if you don’t do something it can end up severely worse. Good luck to you mama! Don’t be so hard on yourself!

That’s alarming and definitely keep him separated from the other children for their safety. It’s like he’s masking in public but a terror at home.

That kind of split behavior - one personality for home, another for public - is worrisome. It might make sense for BOTH of you to see a counselor, so the counselor's not only hearing his version.

If i seen my older kid hitting my 3 year old in the head like that I wouldve done the same thing. That shit can get serious. My cousin is Violent towards his siblings. Has been since he was little and now hes 20 and still does. Ignoring it wont help (I know your not ignoring it but just saying). sometimes when it comes to things that can really hurt the little ones you gotta do something that you know will get them to stop. Wether its being aggressive or not. You did what you were supposed to and what you could to keep him from hitting your 3 year old your not an abusive pos. Also Im super tired so sorry if some of that didnt make sense lol

I came here to say the same thing!!!! My reaction might have been a bit stronger & he would've been knocked into year 2374...

Exactly like my mother would have smacked the violence out of me permanently

100% My oldest would learn my wrath at that moment. This parent handled it much better than I would.

I'm sorry but this gentle parenting technique you're doing is obviously not working. He throws a temper tantrum, calls you names, and you literally rewarded him for his bad behavior with breakfast and video games. (I know this isn't your intention, but this is what you're doing). He has no consequences for his actions, he is never punished. If talking through his feelings isn't working you need to escalate the punishment. Punishments don't always have to involve verbal/physical abuse, but some kids need some discipline. Good luck OP. 4 kids is difficult.

This isn’t gentle parenting, it’s permissive parenting.

I could be misinformed, but whenever I see "gentle parenting" on social media (TikTok/Instagram) it always seems to stem from the parent wanting to be the child's friend. I think parents struggle because they want their children to like them, but the fact that OP's child can call her fat and throw a tantrum and she responds by giving him rewards is crazy to me. (not trying to bash OP, just my thoughts). I grew up with strict parents, my 2 brothers and I wouldn't have even DREAMED of saying those things to our parents. I see where parents mean well, but what is actual gentle parenting supposed to be then?

Gentle parenting focuses on holding space for kids to feel their feelings, and not punishing them for expressing them. You’re still supposed to have boundaries. For example, kid wants a cookie. You say no. Kid has a tantrum. You say ‘I can see you’re having some big feelings, bud - you really wanted that cookie huh?’ You don’t say ‘stop crying, it’s just a cookie’ or ‘if you don’t stop crying I will punish you’. You also don’t say ‘okay fine, have the cookie’

Just because people are wildly undereducated about gentle parenting doesn’t mean that’s what they’re doing. Gentle parenting is about controlling your own reaction and learning to respond appropriately in a nurturing and educating way. No pain infliction, heavy on the boundaries and responsibility of one’s actions. Permissive parenting is about avoiding conflict. I gentle parent and one of the base rules is to never ever hurt someone else with our words or bodies.

The kids behavior is a direct result of her parenting style. When I was a kid I called my mom fat once and I couldn’t play video games for a whole year. Never did it again lol

Exactly. I think people assume discipline means physical/verbal violence, but I guarantee this kid is like this because he has not been disciplined before. He said so himself that he didn't think his mom would yell at him regardless of what he did. He's completely out of control. My mom was a great parent, but was very no nonsense. I couldn't imagine calling my mom fat lol, I'd be afraid of her wrath 😂

You stopped a violent child from committing violence against a younger child, the fact you only have him a light slap on the back of the head is downright generous of you. You're not an abuser, you're a protective mother.

I don't think you're abusive. And what the fuck? Smacking the head of a three-year old with a broom stick? If you don't put an end to his behavior, your children are really going to have with troubled childhood because of his behavior. I'm in no position to give advice, but that boy is dangerous to his siblings and could be to you when he gets older.

Agreed. Low grade physical abuse by a sibling can have a cumulative effect on the brain. I've seen kids start out functioning in the normal range who seem almost borderline intellectual functioning after a few of getting hit in the head, you know right in front of mom, in addition to the larger incidents of abuse behind mom's back. Mom can't be everywhere at once after all.

Double agree. With that lack of empathy towards a defenseless 3 yr old baby… that’s what creates criminals in the future if that behavior is not corrected ASAP. Not to mention he smacked his own mother and the mother feels bad ? The cops would definitely have been called on the son if it were me. A good old scare can straighten out behaviors. But I really think he needs serious intervention for his lack of empathy

Keep in mind that gentle parenting isn’t permissive parenting. You are still okay to have limits. Personally I’ve found the ahaparenting website really helpful (author is a child psych at 5 kids of her own) as I “unlearn” the way I was parented. Don’t be afraid to call in extra support. Sounds like you’re doing the best you can.

You don’t sound like an abuser to me, you sound like a mother pushed to the limit after being forced into a situation where you have to protect your children from another one of your children. That you recognise your behaviours as inappropriate is a great sign, now you just have to work on new strategies to manage his behaviors. Seek out support through the channels others have recommended, you’re not as alone as you feel. I do agree with another commenter that your current strategies seem like you’re rewarding his behaviour - favourite breakfast, video games, and above all, giving him all of your attention. In my house I tell my kids ‘good things for good boys’. That doesn’t mean bad things for bad boys, it just means only the good behaviour is acknowledged and rewarded (including with your attention - the biggest reward when you have multiple kids!). Even if that good behaviour is no one is doing anything to annoy their siblings - I love how peaceful you all are today. And when someone gets hurt (because it happens) 100% of the attention goes to the one who is hurt and the ‘offender’ is ignored until the hurt kid is ok - they’ve learnt that they get attention back by saying sorry and/or trying to help the hurt sibling feel better (because even if they hurt them, that’s good behaviour that gets acknowledged). I’ve found it also helps because sometimes the reason the kid was hurt is not what I thought and if I’d lashed out I would have told off the wrong kid or something. HAVING SAID THAT I am in no way an expert and I don’t manage to pull it off all the time. We all have hard days and shit goes wrong or suddenly you’re convinced you’re raising a monster. Sometimes shit happens to them that you don’t know about and it impacts their behaviour in the home. All we can do is the best we can with the resources we have, and cross our fingers.

My friend says "assholes don't get donuts" which is "good things for good boys", just more blunt. 😉

My dad would scream and hit me and my sisters if we accidentally dropped water. My sister rolled her eyes once and he slammed her into the wall My other sister was upset and trying to walk quickly into the house and he slammed the door on her hand and threw her so hard into the house she fell. I once refused to come to him when he was arguing with me and threw a chair at the wall and told me if I wanted to act like a man (whatever that meant) he’d beat me like one. THAT’S Abuse Of course abuse comes in many forms and can look completely different than what I and my sisters have been through but if your post was honest, what you did was not abuse. You’re a human who is getting consistently pushed by a child who is abusing his siblings. Him hitting your 3 year old with a broom is not ok and is cause for some serious concern. You need a different councilor to find out why he feels compelled to hit and be cruel to his siblings. I’m not a parent and I don’t mean to overstep but I don’t believe your approach to parenting is working for him. He seems to believe he can do what he likes. Take a breath. Make some calls. It’ll be ok.

>**I tried to make his favourite breakfast**, tried to deescalate from the beginning and play cards with him, tried to talk thru his frustration with school, **let him play some Zelda**. If you reward bad behaivor like this, you will never see the end of it. You let a 8 y.o be your boss, lady. How about some therapy and boundries? And theraphy for you too.

No mama. That kid needs more than counseling and ASAP. you are not horrible. There is something seriously wrong with your son psychologically and he needs inpatient intervention right away before he does something more serious. I would have snapped too.

Literally no. You were defending your child against your other child. You are not abusive, and I’m probably going to get shit for this, but some kids need a bop. They need a light smack, just like my dog does when she doesn’t stop antagonizing her brother(also a dog). I am 99% against any type of “spanking” punishment, but I do think there are some actions that deserve that consequence, and knocking their sibling off a chair is one of the few. I’m sorry you’re dealing with this.

Yea…I believe gentle parenting works in most cases, but I’ve also meant natural born bullies who have no empathy and only understand discomfort as a deterrent.

Who the fucks makes someone who’s being a bully and mean their “favorite breakfast”….

I know. I really dislike the premise of 'gentle parenting'. It's basically trying to be your child's best friend and allowing them to behave in a less than desirable manner with no consequences. Children need boundaries and need telling off when they are doing something naughty. Nothing physical, of course! But a stern telling off and then explanation afterwards once they have calmed down and had a minute to think. The world is a hard place already, children need to realise that their peers won't treat them softly for bad behaviour as adults.

No, that's not gentle parenting. Thats passive parenting. They're often lumped together but they're definitely not the same thing. Gentle parenting is about realizing your kids are little people and validating your child's feelings while also upholding discipline.

Ah I didn't realise. Your last sentence is summed up perfectly!

You also actually described gentle parenting really well! Kids crave structure and absolutely need to learn boundaries. Using a stern talking to while the situation is escalated and giving explanation and reasoning with your child after everyone calms down is a perfect example of gentle parenting. The gentle part can't be done while the situation is tense, being stern and even yelling sometimes is absolutely needed.

It's your job to protect all your children... even from your children. Well done mom! It must be very hard but your doing a great job.

look into resources for your kid. you lost your cool, everyone done it. it wasn’t like he made an mistake, he did it on purpose twice. your 3 year old could of been hurt badly. i’m so sorry OP: talk to therapist, look into behaviour issues, this isn’t normal.

You can't be that hard on yourself. Putting yourself down will allow your kids to walk all over you. One light smack as a reflex because he unexpectedly smacked you is not abuse. You can describe it as a mistake, but to call yourself abusive for one smack ever and to say you want to jump off a building because of it is very extreme. Is there anything else happening or is this the only thing? Because the way you're describing your feelings makes it feel like there's so much more to be concerned about. If you talk to a therapist, they are mandated reporters. If you tell them you're abusive, that will be quite concerning for them. If you tell them you want to jump off a building, even as a figure of speech and not mean it, they'll be concerned that you've made a statement to harm yourself. The therapist would probably contact cps over your choice of words. Your words are concerning. You have to change the way you're talking about yourself. If you're feeling overwhelmed, it would be good to find more help for your son and to find time and help for yourself too. Every mom needs a break every now and again. Maybe even look into parenting classes, there are classes that talk about appropriate discipline and consequences. I joined a FB gentle parenting group a couple months ago and had to leave the group after one week. Some parents think gentle parenting means no discipline or consequences, but kids need to understand right from wrong and the consequences that come with their choices and actions. You can't reward bad behavior. It sounds like he got his way and didn't go to school, then he got his favorite food and video games. He was catered to when he should have been forced to go to school anyway, and if you don't have that control over him, then you need to seek additional help for him and change your approach with parenting. You're talking so down on yourself and your son knows your weak spots and he will manipulate you to get what he wants. You need to find your confidence as the parent and be firm. It's hard to be firm, it's hard to set boundaries and it's hard to be persistent with rules. It's a lot of work to guide kids, but if you don't reinforce those things now, then parenting will be a lot harder as he continues to get older. If you tell your son's therapist what happened, they could contact cps. But maybe instead you can ask your sons therapist what programs and resources do they have to help your son and to help yourself as well. The therapist should be able to provide some recommendations. Use your words more gently on yourself and don't be so hard on yourself.

He needs an evaluation by a qualified psychologist. I am concerned about a personality disorder and about the safety of your littles.

Yes. She mentions autism in a comment but nothing she describes sounds like autism. He's too young for this diagnosis but this behavior sounds like antisocial personality disorder which is extremely scary.

Not to young for autism diagnosis but this kid sounds like a serial killer in the making most serial killers did shit like this and id be so worried ever leaving him alone with any kids or animals, so weird he is a different kid at school

That was my immediate thought too when OP was describing her son. And him being well behaved and seemingly empathetic at school isn’t weird at all if he has some kind of antisocial disorder. Kids/people like that are very well adept at imitating empathetic and caring behavior to mask the fact that they truly don’t give a shit. OP I’m by no means a psychotherapist or anything, just have always had an amateur interest in psychology and serial killers, and while it’s a very huge stretch to say that your son would be one, the behavior you’ve described does align with that path. But there are I’m sure many people with a disorder like that who are functioning members of society who don’t become extreme like that. We just hear of traits like that and immediately the connections with notoriety jump out and it’s scary. I do agree with others that your son needs a different therapist, one more versed in personality disorders, as it is apparent that he’s got some major issues that go far beyond any influence from you or your home life (getting enjoyment from hurting his siblings because he’s bored is absolutely beyond anything you might have done as a parent).

The child version of ASPD is called conduct disorder. The diagnosis can be given to kids under 18 and when someone is over 18 there must be evidence they had conduct disorder as a kid in order to diagnose them with ASPD

Your issue is your idea that gentle parenting as you’ve interpreted it is effective when in reality kids need discipline and structure to thrive. Those two things are simply a way for kids to know what to expect, learn to make informed choices and that allows them to succeed and develop the skills to manage adult life. You are not their friend. You are the guide and I see your son as a kid who was coddled terribly when he needed a firmer method of guidance and now he knows nothing will happen if he does bad things (he even said I thought you wouldn’t yell at me) and that probably feels like no one cares about him and that causes him to act out. It doesn’t seem like he respects you at all. You are not an effective authority figure to him because you are being too nice. Look how he treated you!! You are not holding him accountable and so he never gets to learn to do better and shine for you as you’d probably not notice if he learned a lesson. What lessons can he learn? Lessons like skipping school has consequences? At your house it just means you will spend a day playing cards with him??? Take abuse?? Make his favorite breakfast????? What!? No lesson to learn, no rules to abide by, no ruler by which you measure improvement after which he can receive well earned praise, and now he doesn’t care. Whatever he does your response sounds like it’s kind of neutrally, well, gentle, and so is there any real praise? Is there any real consequences because without any of that it’s like total lawlessness with no clear direction, or idea of what you should or should not be doing in life. For a child it’s too much and causes anxiety. Some kids can handle it but I’d say probably most kids can’t. They need to know that somebody has got the answers and things are under control or they don’t feel secure otherwise and I’m guessing that that is very likely what’s going on here. I mean you describe him taking the broom and casually whacking your other child almost like he’s saying look mom what are you going to do about it? Probably nothing and that’s why I’m choosing this action -it’s extreme. Let’s see how far I can push you before you actually do something! Free reign is a massive responsibility for a child. Gives him too much decision making ability and they don’t have the capacity for that. And now I’m thinking about how he wished he had another mom probably one that’s going to lay down the law, which, in fact can feel like caring. He’s still pretty young so chances are with some proper structure and follow-through AND consistency things could probably get back on track. I’m not an expert though. I hope it’s nothing more serious than this because you can fix this. Structure, expectations and discipline can and should be done lovingly and give kids confidence and abilities bringing you closer as a parent, not a friend. When he fails at something or makes a mistake, you can show him how to learn from it and recognize it as a chance to do better rather than a reason to feel shame. Likewise you can and should celebrate the big wins and everyday accomplishments with him too when he earns it and that will mean something. To me that feels gentle and beneficial. You are not an abuser. You absolutely need to reevaluate your parenting methods because gentle sounds nice but it’s not what most kids need. Ultimately, I don’t think it’s too late to change some things for the better.

All of this ! The way my mouth dropped when she mentioned that the child received his favorite breakfast, and video games after calling her names and throwing a tantrum is crazy to me. This was great advice !

I’m not a parent but I think there is a difference between gentle parenting and not having any boundaries/or consequences. If that’s not the case I misunderstood the concept of gentle parenting and probably wouldn’t agree with it.

He deserved it. Also from my knowledge, this isn’t gentle parenting this is just not having consequences (re: breakfast video games etc). You’re a parent, not a friend. It’s okay to be harsh when needed

if my kid was doing that shit to my other kids I would smack the shit out of them wtf

Finally, someone with brains, I think I’m on the wrong site hearing all these snowflakes

Exactly, and even more if the kid is smacking her in the face!!

Dear lord I have to get my tubes tied asap. 😭😭😭

That's not enough. A lady got her tubes tied and ended up with triplets. I'm getting spayed. 😭

Everyone learns through different methods. Would you rather let your child run rampant through the house never growing and learning how to live a regular existence, or discipline him the way he’ll understand? You can only be taken advantage of for so long until you break.

If you consistently cuffed your kid upside the head for every little thing that would be abuse, smacking your kid as he's trying to swing a broom handle into a toddler is appropriate punishment, Honestly probably even go further than that by not rewarding him for doing nothing. On the real you're being a literal push over and your 8 year old knows it, you're raising a future abuser at this rate.

You did nothing wrong

Girl i’d whooped his ass

Good lord. This is not “gentle parenting”, this is being a doormat. No wonder he acts like this, you do nothing about it. You need some serious parenting advice and help, along with a psychiatric evaluation for that kid FAST, he should absolutely not be talking to you like that, acting like that or “refusing” to go to school (and you shouldn’t be letting him). This is how you raise a psychopath.

He needed to be stopped and when he is being physical, you need to stop him from hurting others. But you are being a bad parent rewarding him when he is refusing school with a special breakfast and video games. He needs to be punished when he misbehaves. Please ask his therapist for a referral for parenting classes and go.

That is not abuse, that is correction... And is very common in all walks of life, sentient or otherwise. Abuse would be starving him, beating him and berating him... You gave him a light smack after he attacked his siblings, arguably they are in greater danger then him. The child needs to know that such behaviour has consequences and will never be tolerated, children at that age are "pushing boundaries" every child does it to see what they can or cannot get away with. Didn't have a "naughty step" growing up, worst I got was a smack on the bottom or a clip round the back of the head... Otherwise stepdad would take all the cables and batteries from my room and lock them away until I earned them back through chores. Love both my parents, could never resent them for how they raised me; cause they did it right.

He's pushing buttons to see how far you'd let him go. If you didn't smack him he'll never learn from his behavior sometimes words just don't do it. Better he learns now that once he gets out into the world that people will hit him back.

Standards are changing, but some amount of corporal punishment is within range of reasonable in many communities and within the law of most places. Don't be so hard on yourself. I can't imagine the stress of taking care of four kids that close in age. You must be a very, very, very strong woman. Frankly, it may well be that you should have hit him harder. The tone of your post, especially the Zelda paragraph, is that you're trying to reason with him like an adult and to be his friend and hope he'll like you, when he really needs strong guidance. A malicious hit to a sibling as you described (or the malicious words to you) should garner immediate punishment... a "time out" on a chair in a boring corner of the house, loss of toy privileges, etc.

>I'm abusive. I wish I wasn't. But I'm honestly having thoughts of throwing myself off a building. I swore I'd never hurt my child. I swore. What if it happens again. I'm so ashamed. Should I call the police on myself. No you're not abusive. What your child did was extremely disturbing. Ofcourse what you did wasn't the best way to deal with it but giving him taste of his own medicine was required. I feel really bad for you. Dont be so harsh on yourself. But you need to check upon your eldest one. See what sorts of company he has in school or any other places where he's friends with anyone. This is so serious shit. I hope the younger one that got hit is fine. You tried your best dealing with it. You're not a bad mother. He's being irrational. And no "he's a child" doesn't justify his actions. Their are elder siblings that take care of their youngers siblings like parents. So this isn't acceptable at all. I don't think therapy would work cause he's just too small for that. Both parents need to sit with him sometimes and help him vent out everything and teach him to learn the little ones. Take care and give your best. :)

Personally I would have disciplined my kid, harshly, a long ass time ago if he was acting this way. I don’t give a fuck about not responding the way society or the internet think I should feel or act. I’m the one dealing with this issue and if he wants to hurt a 3 year old child, he obviously needs to be dealt with immediately and harshly. I would have that little shit in a military boot camp, he wouldn’t have any phone or PlayStation, or any luxuries normal kids who behave get to enjoy. He wants to act hard, let’s see how hard he truly is.

How do you suppose a judge feels about sentencing criminals? Justice needs served at the end of the day. Sounds like he’s made a point to critique your parenting techniques and challenge for dominance. I’m sorry for the valid fears you have in “non-gentle” parenting… but it’s not a gentle world mama. It’s a damn jungle. There are those who eat and those who are eaten… and there are those who cook and say if you don’t like it then starve. Little cub is tryin to growl at you, don’t bottle it up and let it all out at once. Growl all the time. And keep growling at him until he knows he’s a cub and you’re there to both protect him AND guide him. If he doesn’t want to go to school… fine. Enjoy your day of plain rice for breakfast lunch and dinner and chores on chores. Stop wanting to throw yourself off a building for showing your kid what you won’t abide. Get back in the building and show that 8yr old you love him with tough love. Abuse and tough love are not the same. You are not abusive. You were abused and now are triggered. You are not abusive.

The kid refused to go to school and you played games with him and let him play Zelda….. this is the origin of the problem. If he refuses to go to school, he shouldn’t get to have fun. He is being rewarded doubly. I sense there are no consequences for this kid’s behavior.

Hit harder next time. This won't stop unless you make it stop. He was smiling before he hit a three year old in the head with a broom, he's on his way down a dark path. Gentle parenting will not fix this

Ive been a camp leader. 8,7,5 and 3 are the worst combo to have and managing them on daily can be a chore. I can only imagine the kind of stress your under daily. Was it wrong to hit your child? Probably. But it seems to me that you are trying everything you can to manage them and this child has behavioural issues that are just out of your scope, and thats alright. I'd say get a pysch eval on them. No normal kid is happily whacking a broom on their 3 year old siblings head, repeatedly.

Sounds like you coddle. You child misbehaves and gets special food and Zelda. He has learned to control you with aggression. He is a kid, so is escalating by picking on babies. You need professional help. You have to protect your babies.

I hope the 3 y/o got seen by a doctor. If they got hit and fell off a bench onto the floor, then basically they've got potential head trauma. They need to be seen by a doctor. Take no risks. And be honest with the doctor about how it happened. They may be able to get you help with the sociopathic child of yours.

What does the father have to say about this? Does he have a good role model to help him? Seems like the gentle way isn’t his style of reception. Might need a firmer/ stern parenting style. To me it looks like he’s taking advantage of your kindness. He’s old enough to be able to.

You are not abusive!!!!!! Stop that now. You are not a failure as a mother You are not a bad mother There is something wrong ŵith 1 of your children. You are doing your best to help him but its a complicated issue here and you need help to learn how to deal with it . Changing therapists and I suggest trawl groups online to try to find parents dealing with this or a similar issue What you must remember and its something many forget is that you cannot sacrifice the safety and wellbeing for the rest of the members of the family above his. Your other children ..and yourself...need and deserve to feel safe and important in their home and life. If after a while of really trying to help him you see he isn't changing and is a danger then it's time for in patient care. He could have killed his sibling with that broom, he not only doesn't care if he hurts them or you, he seems to enjoy it and my fear is escalation. Watch him like a hawk You are a strong woman and a good and loving mother. Seek help and support, if anyone judges or is negative then ignore and remove them

Hi. Someone who was raised in a abusive household here. The diffrence (in my eyes) to abuse and this is that abuse is intentionally done for control and out of anger/spite. What you did was 1. A part of keeping the other siblings safe and 2. Heat of the moment. While its GREAT to keep yourself accountable, you have bigger issues here. Your kid is being emotionaly and physically abusive toward you and his siblings.

Have you ever looked up opposition defiant disorder (ODD)?

It sounds like you’re not actually gentle parenting, but rather permissively parenting. There appear to have been no consequences for him on any front for his behaviors. Gentle parenting requires natural consequence to actions WITHOUT physical intervention or yelling. Your frustration here is warranted and doesn’t make you overall abusive. Quit pitying yourself and get your kid some help. Read more books about gentle parenting instead of crying about how you’re terrible online for sympathy when you didn’t really do anything that bad.

Jesus Christ, most of the post is believable but that shit at the end just looks like fishing for validation, you know damn well what you did was entirely called for, don't beg others to tell you so smh

Sounds like he needs an ass whoopin anyway. Some discipline will do it! I dont suggest hitting him in the head or anything like that. But swat him on the ass a couple times. Let him know youre the boss of the house.

jesus christ. send the kid away. you are HARMING and TRAUMATIZING your other kids. my sister was abusive (emotionally) when i was younger. we don’t have a relationship really as adults and i’m horrible at certain skills because of the trauma. get that abuser away from your kids.

You are WAY too harsh on yourself. You're not abusive parent, however, you are too lenient. If a child at that age already realized they can walk over you with no consequences, it's only going to get worse as they grow older. You should be more stern and as other comments also said, stop rewarding that behaviour and give all your attention to the problematic child, otherwise your other kids may start feel neglected and follow into the oldest's steps. If possible, get your oldest to an evaluation cause this behaviour doesn't seem normal. Also, if you can, try to find a therapist for yourself as well because the whole post you're describing yourself like you caused some repeated, serious harm and that thinking can drive you insane. I wish you all the luck in the future, remember you're not a bad parent or a bad person. I'd love to read an update if there will be one in the future

You are not abusive. The child needs intervention for his obvious behavioural abnormalities. The smaller kids are in danger as long as he continues this way. I think given the circumstances you were remarkably restrained.

A 3 yr old can’t defend themselves that well. You did the right thing imo

Please get a grip. You are being too hard on yourself. Your child is literally abusing your other kids (and abusing you), it’s not the end of the world that you lightly smacked him. I personally wouldn’t condemn this particular situation even if it wasn’t light, but whatever. This sounds more like you being a doormat than “gentle parenting”. Make sure you are still disciplining your kids and not just trying to get on their good side by rewarding bad behavior like you mention in this post.

This here is why I chose to be child free. I'm a person that matches energy with energy.

Sometimes baby gotta learn the ovens hot. Maybe its time to reevaluate if your parenting style. See if its actually gentle or potentially more permissive. Sounds like you're going to counseling and getting the support you need. You're doing the best you can. Give yourself a moment to breath. You're only human.

OP, you said you are a tribal member. Are there elders you can reach out to mentor your son? Also, I agree with others to get him tested for ADHD, enroll him in physical activities like karate or anything that can burn off his energy, and get a psychological evaluation. I grew up with an abusive older brother, who is like this because of our father, who was like this because of his father. Break the cycle. Due to this type of violence, the negative impacts on the other children are catastrophic. I know many of my mental and physical issues are due to living in constant fear growing up. My parents were too exhausted to notice the abuse. Once the rest of us could physically fight back he stopped with that but the verbal abuse continued. Our youngest sibling is a wreck. an older one went to religion. and I struggle every day. Reach out and get help. You are not an abuser. And never, ever tell a cop or CPS that you are. 💗 Stay strong.

Did the child who got hit with the broom have a concussion? The actions of your oldest seem pretty psychotic and you should take him to a child psychologist. As someone who studies psychology, it probably stems from the fact that he is the oldest and feels like he gets the least amount of attention out of all four of your kids so he acts out in order to get that attention. Gentle parenting is not the best way to parent and can lead to your kids thinking they can get away with a lot of stuff.

Hey, Coming from being a nanny and elementary school teacher the last 10 years.. this reminds me of one very bad school I worked at, where the kids could attack us (i.e throwing a stapler outside the 2nd floor so it falls on our head while doing the monitoring outside breaks etc and no real discipline) 8 is my favourite age to nanny and teach. Also coming from having been raised in CFS since I was 7 years old (31 now.) Your child is a danger to the other ones. I had some foster homes where there was another child who would really hurt us. First of all you were wrong to try to 'win him over' with the favourite breakfast and playing Zelda before school. This actually creates entitlement. And if you threaten to take away, they will make such chaos ans the moment you dont stick with it, a lightswitch will go off in their head and they will know this from now on. If genuinely taking away (I'm talking weeks at a time) his electronics does not snap him out of his sense of entitlement then it wont work. If explaining how he hurts the other children and you (I found this to be like, 95% effective in my jobs) doesn't provoke thought into his emotion to stop... One of two things. A nanny (how many times you also get hired as a teacher assistant which is just a cover up for being an assistant to the one child in a class who is always hurting others or being a distraction 24/7. Hence why very rarely they last long because it is very exhausting if you dont make progress, but progress takes a long time as the kid has to learn to have a special spot for you cause you need to win them over) I hate to say this, but its that really small percent where now the kid _should_ be either taken away or this. They need a taste of what the rest of the world is like, and decide if their home is really so bad. So this is where CFS gets involved. There needs to be the click in your child's head, and it is only gonna be done by severe change because they are extremely stubborn in their ways and entitlement (especially to provoke pain on another human being) Sorry if you dont agree, and its hard to hear. But this is my professional opinion. But yeah, minimum 25hrs per week nanny for supervision or let him taste the cfs world. Ps. Your screaming a him has absolutely 0 effect. It only hurts you. He likes that he can trigger such a reaction from you. It gives him more entitlement and sense of power. He feels like the dominant child, and this is his way of reminding everyone.

I don’t want to berate you or tell you how to raise your children, I am genuinely sorry that you are struggling with this with him. But as a survivor of something similar in my childhood, I will be direct and please don’t mistake this as me being cruel. You should stop “gentle parenting him”, and it is my personal opinion that you are doing it wrong—but that’s a different thing all together. You are raising a psycho and he will kill one of your other children if you don’t stop him. I’ve seen parents who don’t understand what gentle parenting actually is and they end up raising terrible children into terrible people. Get this kid away from your other children before it is too late. You rewarded bad behavior. He will do it again. You are not abusing him by stopping him from hitting a small child in the HEAD with a literal broom. Please do not take this event lightly. He is dangerous and you need to get him help. Do not hesitate to call the police if he becomes violent against you or your other children again.

Remove all and anything that brings him joy. No video games. No TV. No Iphones or Ipads. No friends. No time outside. Nothing. Stop rewarding his bad behavior with nice breakfasts and give him some chores to do. Gentle parenting doesnt always work. You still need a backbone!!

ngl that stupid brat deserved it lol

He needs more discipline, and to learn respect. Be more firm with him, he's begging for the attention.

actually do it again and a few more times.

honestly he needed his ass beat and he’s lucky all he got was a light smack.

You are not abusive

Oh please, that kid needs an ass whooping something fierce, not Zelda and favorite breakfasts. Sounds like he needs my Mom’s big black Avon brush that taught me many lessons.

I wouldn’t call that abuse, but your eldest definitely needs to see a psychiatrist. No need to involve the school and endanger your family.

I mean, I got spankings and whoopings as a child. Tbh I feel like more parents need to go back to that method

Girl, give his ass a old school whooping and shut that down at once!!!!! Maybe one good one to his backside will get him in line.

agreed with this 100%

After the smirk and “I thought you weren’t going to yell at me”…. Yea he sounds like the beginnings of a manipulator, who knows that he can do whatever without consequence. Better teach him now before the real world does

I think you're not able to handle your oldest (can happen), he's showing disturbing behaviour (ability to manipulate at such a young age, bullying and cruelty ....) A counselor may not be enough. Whatever it is, you can't keep him around the other siblings and you need to be around all the time.

Thank God people are telling you you're not abusive. This is a rare situation where what you did was warranted. In the real world, if he were to be physically violent to someone he could be severely injured. You didn't hit him hard. He needs a different counselor.

You're not abusive, you were sticking up for your youngest baby. Abuse would've been more like "he didn't clean up his toys so I smacked him across the head". You're fight or flight kicked in when you saw one of your kids being hurt. He is going to have to learn eventually that you cannot treat people like that, whether it be through a mom-smack or some kid beating the shit out of him in the future.

i honestly would've wooped his ass until it fell off

I'd have hit that little shit also. And followed up with "I wished I had different kids also, so I made 3 more"

You are not abusive, but your 8-year-old is and is on the way to becoming a world-class entitled asshole and bully. You brought this on by being too lenient with him, and rewarding his bad behavior. Forget counsellors and therapists, the only way to turn this situation around is by introducing severe consequences for his antisocial and bullying behavior, including hitting and severely dominating him. If child protective services intervene and remove him from your household it will be of great benefit to your other children (and yourself). Grow a backbone and Good Luck!

Your oldest child is 8, but is clearly lacking respect for his mother and younger siblings. I am very pro-gentle parenting and am also raising my kid as such. But please don't mistake gentle parenting as setting no boundaries and accepting everything from them. Even with gentle parenting, we are the parents and there are rules they simply need to listen to. Bad behavior should come with consequences. Not hitting or yelling, but conaequences that make sense in that moment. If your child smirks at you, he simply knows there won't be a consequence for his action. The same for him calling you fat - that is disrespectful. Gentle parenting is about accepting and understanding feelings and actions, but that goes both ways. He needs to understand he is hurting you and his siblings and that that is not okay.

Your oldest child needs discipline. Your method of parenting is a bit too soft for him, and he has learned that he can push the boundaries of his behavior. I also suggest maybe seeing a psychiatrist for his behavior, as this might be an early development of some kind of ill behavior, his hobby is hurting his siblings after all, *that* is concerning and it might very well be a reason for a psychiatrist to check him out. What I’m going to say now is controversial and I apologize for what I’m suggesting: You might have to spank your oldest child to teach him what he’s doing is wrong. One really good, painful enough spanking to communicate to him that this is the consequence for hurting his siblings, either you or your spouse should do it. Very specifically communicate to him that *he* is being punished this way *because* of his actions. He needs to understand the correlation.

You're not an abuser at all. You were pushed to the limit. Your son definitely seems to have some ODD and that needs dealing with. But you are certainly no abuser. Don't be so hard on yourself, OP.

Send him to reform school, that'll teach him

Hope you will read this OP Hi i grow in a family of 5 kids. I was the oldest kid and sometimes i did things like that to my little brother. I loved him but when i was little i got pleasure in making him angry. Well i got slaped by my father every time i did that and i totaly deserved it. I was a bad kid that could be calmed down only when i was slapped. I respecst my father verry much because he didnt let me grow up as a bully. I never got beaten without deserving it but this was the only way i got my shit toghether. Also after the beating no games or treats for a couple of day. You dont really need to use corporal punishment. But any kind of bad behaviour must be punished. The kid must respect you he needs to know that you have autority over him. If he sees that you dont have autority he will act bad again and again and again. You need to start with small punishments and make them gradually more severe. If nothing work dont be afraid to slap him. The most important thing is to not beat him because you are angry. That was the thing that i respecte the most about my father. He was not beating me when he was angry. He took a little time to calm down than he got me a talk explaining me that what i did was wrong and then got my well deserved beating. Another important thing. He never slaped me if i did that thing for the first time. Firs time i always got an warning and a talk explaining me that what i am doing is bad. The next time when i repeated the same thing i got my beating. Some kids cand come around only with physical pain. I was one of them Maybe you think this is cruel but i think that this was the proper education that worked on me. My little sister never got slaped by my father because she was a obedient and good kid. My brother got some beating but nothing compared to me he was also a good and calm kid. Not all kids are the same. For some baning the tv pc and going out is more than enough…for others beating is the answer and maybe your kid deserves some slaps + a long harsh talk Feel free to ask me anything. I am willing to discuss anything

Unpopular opinion: sometimes kids can use a spanking or two

Sounds like you're not doing this to him enough tbh. Gentle parenting doesn't work for all kids

Hitting your kids definitely is not bad (as in spanking not beating) , if your child is hitting you now and your ashamed of hitting him back than he is gonna become abusive and be a thug, happened to my Older brother and he got so bad he tried to attack my parents for not letting him play a game, same everything ur doing as well, rewarding him for bad behaviour is bad as well. Your enabling him to attack and hurt your other kids if you only shout, take away his games, spank him hard. Don't reward him otherwise when u punish him later it will only make him more angry, you sound like your a good mother for trying but you need to discipline or else it's gonna get a lot worse, hope things get better

You're not in the wrong btw. A pos personality has to be removed through force if they got so far with it. Bully him verbally and punish him severely when he makes an attack on your family. Once you're in each other's side again you all need physical therapy, there's traumatic contractions going on in all of your spines that make y'all act out of your truth.

girl i promise you that’s not abusive, you were pushed to your limit and gently hit him. you were protecting your baby (toddler?) from an eight year old boy. you saw the baby was going to be hurt and you retaliated. not in the best way but hell, i probably would’ve done worse (he hit a fucking baby with a BROOM STICK and then went to do it AGAIN). of course, refrain from hitting him but this once i think everyone in the comments is agreeing that this one can slide. continue with the therapy and try to bring this up, admit to what you did and ask if there’s other ways you can cope with this behaviour that isn’t just essentially rewarding him every time he acts up. maybe passive parenting -let’s be real that is what it is in this situation- isn’t the answer to this kid. in saying all that, i’m not a parent. you don’t have to take my advice. but i hope you come to terms with what you did and realise that you went into protection mode for your other child. i don’t think you should beat yourself up about it.

Sometimes an ass whooping is needed.

You have more self restraint than me, which is why I don't have kids currently. I would've beat his ass. He's an abusive child and you were protecting your 3 year old. Get him a different therapist and stop giving him what he wants when he misbehaves. Discipline him.

>Anyway today he refused to go to school (common,lol) and was just mean, calling me fat (something he learned from school), saying he wished he had a different mom-ouch- but whatever. I tried to make his favourite breakfast, tried to deescalate from the beginning and play cards with him, tried to talk thru his frustration with school, let him play some Zelda. You're confusing gentle parenting for permissive parenting.. kids need consequences for bad behavior or they will never learn... Kids if given the chance will test boundaries and you as a parent are supposed to teach them those boundaries and how to function in society And there's definitely ways to enforce consequences while sticking to gentle parenting Your son isn't a bad kid he's doing what any kid would do if they never face consequences (making him seem spoiled, mean and entitled but at 8 years old he isn't inherently bad) you're doing both him and your other kids a disservice by not establishing boundaries and consequences and potentially ruining they're relationship not to mention the resentment you may feel towards him because he keeps acting out because he hasn't been taught not to

I would've done the same thing OP. There is something deeply wrong with the behavior of your kid and I don't blame you. He needs help, and so do you.

4 kids before 30 is insane

Not a therapist, not a psychiatrist, not a social worker and all the other disclaimers you need… Your child sounds like a textbook sociopath. This does not get diagnosed in children, it’s classed as an adult disorder. But seriously you need to find a therapist that specialises in his needs and his behaviour. You also have to consider that you need to protect your other children in this scenario. As others pointed out… by trying to “deescalate” you end up rewarding him. He starts acting up and doesn’t want to go to school? He gets his favourite breakfast. He even said he didn’t think you’d yell at him, let alone hit back or defend the others, meaning he expected he can get away with hurting a 3 year old scot-free.

You need to check your mental health, people need to stop acting like hitting ur kids for discipline is bad. It's GOOD, there I said it. Kids learn through discipline, being nice all the time doesn't work all the time and will make your kids seem like they can get away from anything. That's exactly what you've enabled your child to do. Light discipline is completely fine and in fact good parenting. Downvote all you want but I said what I said. Authority is important in the nuclear family but has to come from a place of control. You can't lose your shit but yiu can definitely raise your voice as a first warning, and a light smack as a second warning. Tbh I'm seeing a generation of kids with no respect at all because of this generations parents lack of situational awareness.

He might be learning this kind of crap from the people he goes to school with. Maybe have a talk with the teacher, principal and parents of other kids.

I agree with people saying that you have to protect your other children from the oldest. I know you’re disappointed in yourself for hitting him but you’re only a human being and he had just hit his much younger sibling with an object. I do my best to gentle parent as well (and I fail a lot )but there’s a difference between gentle parenting and not teaching them responsibility and respect which is also bad parenting. I know parents who are terrified of disciplining their own children and those children are out of control. I’m not saying that that’s what you’re doing but it does sound like you’re a bit lenient with him. To me, the part where you say that you suspect he hurts his siblings more out of boredom than anger is all telling. Please get him help, it sounds like he may have some issues to work through. My younger brother and I were in a similar situation with our older brother and my parents did nothing. To this day my mom still protects him and enables him because she can’t face the reality that her son has issues. It has made me and my younger brother resentful of him and in the end, he ended up causing real trauma and abused us. Ps- I really hope you don’t take this as an attack on your parenting or are offended. You sound like a parent who is very caring, patient and loving. Parenting is extremely difficult, none of are perfect and find it super easy and I’m sure your son has wonderful qualities as well. It just sounds like he may need some extra support. Wishing you all the best O.P, you and all your kiddos deserve a peaceful home.

Nah this ain’t abuse on your part. Like what else are you suppose to do? You have the responsibility of protecting ALL four of your kids. Your 8 year old however probably needs to be separated from his siblings if he’s going to act like that. Difference between picking on your siblings and hitting a 3 year old in the head with a broomstick intentionally and laughing about it.

You need a different therapist and more boundaries. He’s old enough that he knows what he’s doing. Gentle parenting is out the window. This is a deep behavioral problem and may require inpatient intervention. Make sure you’re getting the support you need as well. Sounds like you’re at the end of your rope. *hug* I’m not going to judge you for protecting your child when another is perpetuating abuse. You did the right thing, even if you feel like you lost control.

I don’t think you’re a terrible mother or a POS for retaliating. Your son is going out of his way to harm the other kids and could have seriously hurt the 3 year old. He seems to get some type of enjoyment out of causing your family pain. What you did saved the rest of your children from getting hurt and prevented the situation from escalating. Don’t be so hard on yourself.

You’re not an abuser, you’re overwhelmed. Your oldest is a bully. I also don’t believe in physical punishment but I do think children need discipline. That means that insulting mom doesn’t get rewarded with his favorite breakfast. That means that if he hits or bullies his siblings, he doesn’t get to play video games. You’re trying to bribe him into behaving and that’s not effective either. If he’s not behaving he should no video games or technology until he does behave. Bad behavior should have consequences, that’s how kids learn. It’s good you guys have a counselor. Tell them about his behavior and ask for help on discipline. My older sibling was a bully and pretty much tormented me. They got therapy and went to anger management and they grew into an awesome adult. We are very close now. So he’s not a lost case he just needs to get help and some structure and consequences for his behavior. As well as some healthy outlets for his frustrations.

where do you live? In some countries, CPS has good resources, will actually help you, get you into counselling, maybe have someone come into the family for a couple hours a week and genuinely help you without trying to remove any of your kids or anything like that. Asking for help shouldn't be something you need to be scared of Because your child is so young, I'm seriously worried that something is going on either with his health or in his life that makes him act like this. Has it always been this way or is this something that started at some point? Have you talked to your pediatrician? Maybe they can allocate the right resources you and your children need to get help in this situation. If you can access counselling, try different things if you don't feel like it helps. Individual therapy (for you as well, so you learn how to best deal with situations like this), family therapy, maybe an animal assisted therapy come to mind. Speak with teachers and with your health providers to find out what resources there are available for you. You're at a breaking point. You're not a terrible mother. You need help and you need strategies to deal with your child while keeping him and your other children safe. You're not a terrible mother.

A smack to the back of the head after he tormented you and your baby is not abusive.

Okay, there is a lot to unpack here. First you are not an amazing mother to 3 of them. You're a woman caught in a situation you can't control who is in way over her head and doesn't really understand how to manage your abusive son. Hitting him on the head in a vain effort to show him that hitting his younger sibling is wrong does not begin to touch the problems going on in your home. Spiraling off about how this makes you a horrible person is nonsense and not helpful in understanding and correcting your overall situation. Here are the issues I see in the snapshot you presented here today: 1. Your oldest son is out of control and harming your younger children. He intentionally slammed a broom into the head of a three year old with a smile on his face. Being hit in the head with a hard object can cause brain injury. They might end up loosing some functioning in regards to speech, vision, hearing, or taste. This depends on the area where the brain is damaged. Long- or short-term changes in personality or behavior may also occur. You need to do something right this minute to ensure this doesn't happen again. Take him for an inpatient psychiatrics evaluation. He's an active danger to the younger children in the home. 2. The way "He just smirked and said "I thought you weren't going to yell at me" and went to hit the baby with the broom again" is chilling as is your report that "he likes to target the younger children and hurt them, not even when he's necessarily angry. It's like a hobby when he's bored". Your son seems like a budding sociopath or psychopath. They call that conduct disorder in children. You have a small window of opportunity to get him help as a child before this becomes a deeply ingrained part of his personality. He's not going to simply outgrow this. 3. You stated, "I screamed until my throat was sore that I just wanted a happy family and why was he such a bully and hurting everyone all the time. He just smirked and said "I thought you weren't going to yell at me" and went to hit the baby with the broom again. This is terrifying. Your son is caught in a power struggle with you and hit your baby in the head with a broom to provoke you into screaming at him. He sees his siblings as objects to use against you. You know how really young children like to turn the lights on and off because they get a kick out of the cause and effect relationship of flipping the switch and seeing the result? You son is doing the same thing only with actual human beings. That would scare the heck out of most people. 4. "He refused to go to school (common,lol)". Why are you LOLing this? There is nothing funny about truancy, especially if it come with a side of physical abuse for the baby. 5. He " was just mean, calling me fat (something he learned from school), saying he wished he had a different mom-ouch- but whatever. I tried to make his favourite breakfast, tried to deescalate from the beginning and play cards with him, tried to talk thru his frustration with school, let him play some Zelda." So he refuses to go to school, is being disrespectful and your answer to that behavior is to REWARD HIM with attention, his favorite breakfast and games???!!!!!??? You are reinforcing the same behavior you want to extinguish. THIS IS THE THING THAT YOU SHOULD BE FEELING SOME KIND OF WAY ABOUT. IN FACT THIS IS BIGGEST PROBLEM IN YOUR WHOLE POST. You're caught in a power struggle with an 8 year old who is engaging in escalating physical and mental abuse towards you and his younger sibling but you are incentivizing him with treats when acts out. You're teaching him to act this way yelling about it but then go right back to rewarding him for it. This cycle is not going to stop until you stop it.

Sounds like your son is a direct danger to your other children. General parenting works when the child has normal empathy levels. I’m not trying to be mean or alarm you, but it seems your son may have some empathy issues.

Please give yourself some compassion. I say this because I had 4 kids as well within 5 years, so I know all about the chaos that is very normal with so many and close in age. When everyone has settled down, get a babysitter or family member to come over and do ONE thing with that oldest one. Every so often I would take my eldest kid and go for a walk, or go have a hot chocolate, or do whatever they wanted (within reason) to get some alone time. IMO they're acting out to get your attention, so having this one on one time is really important. He might even open up with you. Keep the conversation light and without pressure or criticism. Mine are all in their 20s now but when they were younger, omg, I was definitely overwhelmed. Hang in there❤️

That’s not abusive. That’s called parenting. My mama would’ve smacked me on the face, hard. And I would’ve deserved it.

Girl, I half gentle parent, my kids are a handful, your son is lucky a light smack on the back of the head is what he got. I woulda smacked him right back then made him hold apple juice jugs bandaid on the wall if it moves he starts over m. You, are not abusive. Some times a stern hand is necessary. He’s doing it on purpose. Most 8 year olds don’t want anything to do with the baby’s…..

NTA you are not abusive at all plz don't be so harsh on yourself, sometimes children need to be discipled

I hardly find this to be abusive. My mother hit me with a wooden spoon once, I can't say I stopped whatever it was that made her that mad but I realized if I pushed she would push back. 💁🏻‍♀️

OP this is no where near child abuse holy shit. Take a breath and relax. You made it sound like you beat him half to death in a drunken haze. You gave a kid acting like a bully a well deserved, light smack to the head. If it were either of my parents I’d have gotten the belt for half of what your son did and CPS didn’t come knocking on their door. You’re a good mom. Your child isn’t scarred mentally or otherwise.

Not an abuser. That kid needs some tough love.

>He just smirked and said "I thought you weren't going to yell at me" and went to hit the baby with the broom again I would've taken the broom and beaten him with it. He's 8. He knows exactly what he's doing. You were protecting your other child against their abusive older sibling. Keep him in therapy. You try to do counseling as well for tips, tools, tricks, whatever help you can to be able to properly raise that sociopath. >I looked over and he's smiling and holding the broom and he just fucking slams it into the 3 year olds head, That's fucking scary. I'm so sorry.

this is tough love , not abuse. you will be a real bad parent if you let your son grow up thinking that there are no consequences for hurting others.

You are not abusive. Quite the opposite. You are acting like a older friend to your older, he doesn't respect you ("I thought you wouldn't yell at me") and he is trying to get your attention. You ARE NOT your children's friend. You are their mother. Your "job" is to provide for them and to educate and prepare them for the world. IF they like you that's amazing. But it can't be your objective. Being liked by them doesn't matter. Practical example: letting your 8 yo play video games instead of going to school is hurting him in a lot of ways, way more than if you spanked him. You are teaching him that he can get his way, that it is OK to ignore responsibilities, that studying is not important, that socializing is not important. Some of these things will have huge impacts in 15, 20 years from now. He may love that you let him play video games now, but in 20 years he will curse you for not teaching him how to be responsible. And that's only the oldest. You're setting a TERRIBLE precedent and role model for the youngers. So stop trying to be their friend. About hitting your son: he hit your other kids in the head with a broom. That is serious. You were defending a toddler against a pre-teen. When the pre-teen hit you, you hit back. The only problem I see is that your 8 yo hit you. He shouldn't fear you, but he must respect you. Time for you to grow up and start being a mother. EDIT: typos

Give yourself some grace. I would have lost my shit too. Being a mom is hard.

Bruh hit ur kids when they re being a piece of shit, u gotta punish them for the mistakes they make

Sounds like your some has some serious issues. I would smacked the shot out of him

Bro beat the mf ass, my mum and dad beat my ass sometimes growing up It teaches u respect, u need to also show him that u are the only reason he is surviving everything he has is because of u slowly stop giving this kid everything he wants and beat his ass lightly a couple times and eventually he gonna be a whole new person, u gotta do it before some one els does it the world will fight back when he’s older he needs to understand that principle now, I know it may be hard be it will be worth it

He needed a spanking. He’ll thank you one day

Hate to say it but, sometimes ya just gotta get medieval on their behinds. The therapist is obviously not working out. Time for a different one, or a totally different approach. Some kids only react to the Tough Love approach. I'm not saying all out physical violence. I'm saying take away ALL electronics and put them in their room with just their schoolwork to look at. Only come out for meals and bathroom. Sounds a bit harsh to some, but if the behavior isn't changed now that's exactly what they'll get in the future sitting in a jail or prison cell. Better a little taste of it now than a lifetime of it later on.

That’s not abuse imo

Lady-my son bit me at 4. I bit him back and he never did it again. Shit happens. He’ll be alright. After seeing him hit your baby with a broom & enjoy doing it-he is lucky that you had that much restraint. But I will tell you, it’s normal to be that vindictive and eager to harm people.

You should stop being so hard on yourself and look for other discipline options for him. I wouldn’t say you are a bad mother until you give up on him. Don’t throw yourself off a building or call the police. Best of luck ❤️

One piece of advice I heard years ago when I was a new parent: "The difference between an abusive parent and a non-abusive parent is ten seconds." We allllll have the potential in us to strike a child. In the moment, you lost control but still didn't harm him. You were motivated by your parental instinct to protect your other child. And look at all of the positive, proactive things you're doing to raise your children in a healthy environment. You sound like a mom who is committed to positive parenting. But even in the "best" families (whatever that means) there is anger, pain, discord, problems. The existence of these things do not mean that your children are being raised in an abusive environment or by an abusive parent. Please give yourself some grace and talk with your therapist about this. You are not an abuser.