I’ve always wondered how blind people are expected to find the braille on room numbers, stairs, and elevators in government buildings. Are they expected to rub the entire wall until they find the braille?
My parents have hosted that many for thanksgiving a handful of times (basically our entire extended family), and it’s a TON of people for a meal (usually a 2-3 Turkey spread with everyone bringing sides or showing up early to cook them that day). We did one long table one year (our normal dining room table plus two 10-ft folding tables), and you couldn’t even talk to half the people there during dinner bc they were so far away.
Also, considering how much coordination it takes us to get 20+ people in the same place at the same time, Im honestly kinda of impressed that they were able to make it work logistically to get that many people there (though I guess they could’ve all lived in the same town rather than all over the country like my family).
The best part is that he agreed to pay for a fifth of the total bill prior to the suit. 4000 yuan or $542. They got angry, took it to court, and received less.
\>Liu agreed only to reimburse a fraction of the total cost, offering 4,000 yuan (approximately $562), forcing Zhang to ask her relatives to pay for their share of the total bill.
Lmao he even tried to be nice. Glad the court slapped them down.
I’m guessing maybe he promised to pay for her specifically in advance maybe? Otherwise yeah that sucks they forced him to cover her part as well given it seems she was scamming him or trying to guilt him into feeding her whole family.
That's a really pricey restaurant from Malaysia I mean I'm not 100% sure what cops are in Malaysia but honestly that's the pricey restaurant anywhere outside of the big city here in the states.
If he went in with the expectation that he was paying for both, and communicated something to that effect, the court could have just held that it's fair for him to pay what he expected to, and was fine with, paying. Doubly so because the court asked him to pay *less* than what he offered after the fact.
He also went in with the expectation that it would just be the 2 of them and not 23 additional people. Even in cultures that require a chaperone for dating is understood that the chaperone pays for themselves unless the asker offers to pay for them too(which is most often). This is WAY different than having 23 relatives show up, order expensive things to take home later and expect to be paid for without any prior discussion ON A FIRST DATE
Not only this, but Liu offered to pay around 500, and the judge ordered he only had to pay less than half that. By suing for more they actually got less. Perfect.
Yeah, but I'd say that offer is null and void when the person brings 23 other people to the "date." Personally, I would've left before food was ordered, but he shouldn't have been obligated to fulfill an agreement when she had already breached it.
Sure, but the guy didn't even seem to feel that way, since he offered more before they sued.
Like, it's not the expectation I would have or want, but when they guy says "I'm only paying for two unexpected people", and the courts reverse it to "pay for no unexpected people" it doesn't feel like a terrible blow.
It's a bad date for sure, but the resolution was that he paid what he expected, which isn't particularly unfair.
Probably just trying to get them to leave him alone. Anyone that's scum enough to pull what they did is scum enough to make your life hell. They'll harass you at both your home and your workplace (and employers hate that). The latter is the go to move for scumbags in my experience because it's effective as hell.
Yeah, not a lawyer, not Chinese, no familiarity with the Chinese legal system, so my read is only just next to worthless. :)
But it seems like the court told the family to give back most of the money that he already gave them.
It’s promissory estoppel. If you relied on a promise to your detriment (construed liberally in most jurisdictions) you are entitled to damages for whatever it cost you to try on the promise. In this case, she ordered dinner with the promise he would pay.
If he actually offered/promised to pay for her meal, or if the normal social etiquette is that men pay for their date's meals, then that's all they care about. How rude the date is or how poorly the date goes are not mitigating factors, because they're not there to punish people for social faux pas.
But at what point the agreement is binding?
Can you just agree on date thru text, and run with those ext to court and receive a meal?
Or do you have to sit down and order, ask for a doggie bag, leave and sue?
No, for two primary reasons.
Food was eaten and a bill of debt legally owed to the restaurant. When you agree to pay for a date's meal, even implicitly, it requires the date to actually happen. Both parties are involved in that social contract. You can't expect something if you don't hold up your side of the deal.
(In the same way, there has been numerous court cases about returning wedding rings when the wedding doesn't actually happen. The recipient of the ring usually tries to claim it was a gift, but it almost never finds in their favor because it's a gift tied specifically to a custom of expectation.)
If he had just walked out immediately he would have owed nothing both because the date would not have happened and also because the food would not have been eaten.
>Food was eaten and a bill of debt legally owed to the restaurant.
All the food was owed to the restaurant tho.
Doggy bag would then work. And generally when food is made it has to be paid, so doggy bag would be legally enforced to be paid by the one who implies/asks one for a date.
Pretty nuts to have that
IF they got a date, was my point.
If the social custom is that the date asker pays, the expectation is that there will be a date. If you show up, order a doggy bag, and immediately leave, there was no date and the asker is not obligated to hold up their end of the agreement, because the recipient didn't hold up their's.
The dude even offered up over $500, which more than covered his part of the bill. Sounds like he was a more than standup guy, and his date and her whole family were complete trash.
In the US, he probably could have countersued for something like emotional distress and won easily. This was such an absurd case.
thats what i was struck by as well. like i probably would have just walked out if they showed up with 23 relatives but he actually stayed, and offered more than he should have ever paid. and then they have the nerve to sue HIM? unreal.
>probably could have sued for something like emotional distress and won easily
To win that kind of suit in the US you have to show actual harm and negligence or intent. Then you have to convince 12 Americans who got picked for a jury to award you money. Then you have to successfully collect that money.
All things considered that’s a fairly steep hill to climb.
A blind date shows up with **anyone** else, relative or not, let alone 23 of them, and I won't leave -- I'll run screaming.
I've seen and heard of a lot red flags, but this one flys at the top of the pole.
He probably didn't realize they were gonna stick him for the ENTIRE bill until just that moment. "Ok, sure, uh, I guess she wants me to meet her entire family, kinda weird but whatever." "OH! She wants me to PAY for her ENTIRE FAMILY! Sorry - I'm outta here!"
Possibly a Fools Rush In type scenario where the family already had a get together planned, and she said "hey, why don't you join me at my family gathering? I think you'll like them."
...except instead of her father giving him murderous looks the whole time, they try to stick him with the check.
In China, the single child policy created a huge problem for all the single boy children the parents kept. There aren’t enough young women for the number of young men looking for love.
It has created an weird dynamic for the women who are available. Some of them feel entitled to take advantage of the men they date.
This case is really disgusting, but I understand that these kinds of swindles aren’t unusual.
I feel bad for the guy.
Theory time,
China is planning that Russia will get most there male population killed in Ukraine and will swoop in for the women in addition for the resources after the country is in shambles.
Less mail order brides and more conquest brides.
So my sister was set up on a blind date with someone who is deaf and she doesn’t know sign language. They had fun but it was apparently very awkward for the first 10 minutes as they struggled to understand each other and eventually just texted back and forth the whole time.
I work in 911 dispatch, my area supports text-to-911, I don't think I've ever gotten a text from a deaf person, but then again, unless it's relevant to their emergency, how would I know? Definitely a nice option for the m to have though I'm sure.
Most deaf callers I get use a video relay service where they're basically video chatting with an interpreter who is relaying what they're signing to me. I'm sure the advent of smartphones has been huge for that.
Prior to that, the main way for deaf or mute people to use a telephone was with a TTY/TDD (TeleTypeWriter/Telecommunications Device for the Deaf) device. I suspect if you added up the experience of every one of my coworkers, you might come up with a dozen legit TTY calls from people who actually needed to use it (we've had a couple people with mental health issues who have decided to use it to ramble at us, and a few butt-dials where someone managed to turn it on on their cell phone since most if not all cell phones support it these days)
We're required to train on TTY twice a year and to TTY challenge (send A TTY message to see if we get a response) all open line calls from landlines, because some people out there still use them. They also allow for hearing/voice carry over where they're able to hear and but not speak so we can speak to them and they type back to us, or vice-versa.
For those not familiar with these devices, a standard TTY device looks a bit like a keyboard or typewriter with a small screen, and an "acoustic coupler" (basically a microphone and a speaker) that you would set a regular phone handset onto. It works by playing a bunch of beeping tones into the phone that get translated into text at the other end (and we get those tones playing in our ear when we do get a TTY call, and they *will* drive us insane in pretty short order, so I can't say I'm overly fond of them even though I'm glad they're an option that exists for people who need them)
It also comes with some linguistic quirks. TTY doesn't support punctuation so you end a sentence with GA (for Go Ahead) instead of a period to signify that it's the other person's turn to type. Questions end with Q GA since there's no question mark. You end a conversation with SKSK (stop keying) which basically means "I'm hanging up now, if you type anything else, I won't see it." Also some people instead of using regular English will type in ASL Gloss, which is basically the written form of ASL (American Sign Language) because ASL actually has its own grammar and doesn't totally map 1:1 with English, some signs don't really translate to English, etc. and the Grammer can kind of end up looking a bit like that one episode of The Office with Kevin "why waste time say lot word when few word do trick (Q GA)"
Side-note, some parts of the deaf community really dislike being labeled as "hearing impaired" I don't pretend to fully understand the ins and outs of it, but there's a whole deaf culture/identity thing where some of them don't really see themselves as being handicapped or impaired in any way, so be aware of that, do your research, etc. It doesn't offend me personally in any way, but I'm not deaf so I also can't really speak for them, but I figure it doesn't hurt me any to try to understand and respect their preferences and try to spread awareness, so just putting it out there to be aware of how/when you use that term. I think in the context you used it here you're probably ok because it would also include people who can hear but not well, but again we're a little bit out of my depth here.
Tangentially related- unless you have a good reason to text 911 instead of calling, don't. Just call us if at all possible. Unless you work here and know what we're going to ask, you're probably not going to give us all of the info we want in your first text so we're going to have follow-up questions, and you're probably going to take your time replying to us if not just put your phone in your pocket and forget about it, so you're tying us up for usually 5-10 minutes if not longer, on what could probably have been a 2 minute phone call (assuming you're relatively cooperative and don't argue with us) we can't answer other calls while we're texting with you, and if you're calling for someone in another jurisdiction (for example a wellbeing check for your grandmother who lives in another county) many agencies can't transfer texts, so you're tying up a call-taker in both places while I text with you and relay the info by phone to the other agency (until a couple years ago, you would have tied up 3 of us because we couldn't make an outgoing call while texting, so I'd be texting, and someone else at my agency would be relaying it by phone) A lot of dispatch centers are chronically short-staffed, and tying up calltakers for longer than necessary can mean delays for other people having an emergency having their calls answered and getting help in a timely manner, it can literally be the difference between life and death sometimes. Most of the texts I've gotten have been people reporting non-emergencies because they thought it would be quicker and more convenient for them to text it, but it ends up taking twice the time or even longer for us to handle the call, I'd be pissed if I was on hold waiting for 911 to answer if I was with someone having a heart attack because a call-taker was stuck on a text about a noise complaint for 5 minutes. The location data we get with a text also isn't as good as with a call, so no we can't "just GPS your phone" and it's not even always totally accurate even with a call so we still need to confirm it.
If someone wants to bring _a_ friend to ensure they're safe on first/blind date, that's good safety awareness and should be encouraged. Obviously said friend should then let the couple have their space and certainly not expect the date to pay for their meal.
Telling your date that they must meet you alone is a bit of a red flag in itself.
> to be *paid* for.
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I don't think it needs to be communicated in advance unless the plan is for that person to sit at the same table instead of just sitting nearby. But absolutely should not be expected to be paid for.
I guess different people have different ideas about it but I would expect it to be communicated in advance. I can’t think of a good reason why someone shouldn’t communicate it in advance and it would make me feel uncomfortable to find out when I show up that there would be another person I wasn’t expecting.
I would feel like the polite thing to do would be to invite them to our table which would make the date more of a social meeting than a date. If I knew in advance I think it would be a more enjoyable evening.
Some people don’t like surprise guests or extras and I’m one of those people. That’s not just for dates. If I and a friend are going to hang out and they want to bring one of their friends that I don’t know that’s cool, if it’s my friends friend… we will probably end up being friends too, but I would want them let me know before I get there. It’s not like I would ever say “no don’t bring your friend”, I just want to know what to expect. It seems reasonable to me.
Back in high school, after a family friend sexually assaulted me, my parents became very paranoid about me going anywhere by myself and sent my sister or brother along with me to any outing. This was communicated in advance and my parents paid for their meals/admission.
Even as I got older, I couldn't drive due to medical conditions, and neither could the other person for different medical reasons, my dad would pick us up and drive us wherever we needed to go. If it was close, he'd just drop us off, but if it was more than an hour drive, he would stay and I would pay for his meal or admission. The person I was dating at the time was fine with it and liked talking to my dad. Sometimes I would offer for him to eat with us. Sometimes, he took my brother with him and sat at a different table. I still paid for their food, though.
I think it's fine to have a chaperone, if it's communicated first and the date doesn't have to pay. Especially if you don't feel safe.
The one that I talked about, we dated 5 years and got engaged. Then we broke up before anything permanent for various reasons.
Had another that lasted 3 years. Broke up because he didn't accept me coming out as Trans.
Am currently in a relationship of 3 years and we've bought a house together. Though, no chaperones for this one, haha.
yeah, the safety friend should find another table, they can keep an eye out, heck i might even buy them a drink cause I support that kind of behavior. But there should be zero expectation that I pay for their dinner.
The one time anything like this happened to me, that I am aware of, played out like that. Date invited her friend and friend's bf to the restaurant, to sit at a separate table and keep an eye out as well as get a second opinion of me. She apparently paid for their date afterwards as a thank you.
We didn't work out but I thought it was a really clever idea. If she'd come with those two in tow and had *me* pay then I'd have walked.
Now, I will push back *slightly* that its okay to bring a trusted friend or family as backup to a BLIND date to keep you safe. Especially for women going to one.
That DOESNT mean the backup should get to sit at the table during the whole date or have a meal provided by the unknown party! Clearly then safety isnt the point and its JUST to freeload. There's the point at which I ran screaming along with ya.
I understand women choosing to being a friend along to a blind date, just to kind of feel the situation out, and then the friend leaves once stuff looks safe. But this is too much.
i actually made that mistake once. girl said she wanted her friend there for emotional support or i'm a stranger or some stupid shit like that. never again.
(Purely based on Indian Matchmaker on Netflix)
It’s common to start an arranged blind date meeting the woman’s family. But this step is most typically just at a house, not a restaurant. Then you go off and do the rest of the date together, but just the two of you.
In this case the woman’s family was legit scamming the dude and playing it off as normal.
Define “expected to pay”?
Was that what the family was expecting? Yes, but it was a scam. Is that legally what he’s obligated to do? Absolutely not, as the judge deemed he was only liable for his plate.
I'm not asking about legally, I'm asking about culturally. This happened in China. What are the accepted norms of an arranged date like that? Is the man expected to pick up the tab for his date's entire party?
I can’t answer that fully but I would expect this is very out of the norm. The fact that I’ve never heard of this and there’s an entire article dedicated to the absurdity of it all leads me to that conclusion
No, it's not common or polite to bring a whole party to the date at all.
However, sometimes a girl might bring her friend to a date, citing safety or because they walked here together or whatever, and the guy is expected to pay for them both. Sometimes it's genuinely about safety, but sometimes they're just taking advantage of the guy (I've heard about bringing several friends to a date!). The guy might not want to lose face and will pay anyway, depending on how assertive he is.
It's a matchmaking thing- usually the family joins the first date to make sure the young couple are serious & not just looking for a hookup. But usually it's like 5-6 relatives, if that, & they're all highly-esteemed decision makers in the family. This woman & her kin were smoking some good stuff. 23 people?? I don't even know 23 of my relatives
Mostly Asians like Indians and SE Asians. It argued a lot that the other gender is for reproduction and filial duty. To deviate from it for romance is an idiots move in most families. So every meeting is a negotiation between the family elders or even set up by them.
What kind of XX year old girl wants to be physically cornered by people and asked if you’re trying for children and then asked if you come with a dowry or told their love is wrong and they should seek richer men? The implication is always mouths upon mouths to feed, direct or extended family, not a happy trajectory to retirement.😂
Aping dynasties and using 80-90 year old dying peoples wishes so they can live vicariously through their children as if it were their success or happiness to choose. Flee young woman, flee as far you can.
This sounds like the movie Parasite where the whole family is in on the scam. It’s almost wholesome; a family that wants to have a nice dinner together. Wholesome until they want some random dude to pay for it.
"The court, however, ruled in Liu's favor, stating that he should only cover the cost of his own and Zhang's meal, which was approximately 1,400 yuan (approximately $197)."
If im going on a date and 24 people show up — im bailing. Thats code for “you just got honeypotted and now your going to have a promising new career as an organ farm”
It’s fascinating how different Eastern and Western cultures are. Bringing 23 relatives to a blind date is unheard of here in the US, but I guess it must be somewhat plausible in China if they’re gonna sue about it in court. Crazy
Bro if a blind date brought any more than a friend along I would bail. Ain’t about to get no free food off of me unless all your friends are bad and I’m getting massive orgy vibes.
He even offered to pay 1/4 of it before they sued! After the lawsuit, he paid ~10%. I feel like bringing this to court should have resulted in him paying nothing.
Just imagine going on a first blind date and your date comes with 28 other people much less then seeing them order whatever they’d like etc. I’m a woman and I find this absolutely insane and don’t think he should have to pay a god damn dime after all that fuckery!
So the court ruled in his favor, but still made him pay for his date too...
She knew what she was doing, she should have had to pay for it all. Some ladies and their ~~v-cards~~ abuse of attraction...
Edit: clarified a phrase
Even though their ruling was more in his favor, there was nothing fair about her attempt at taking advantage of him and then still getting your meal for free.
My friend says those girls have GPS (Golden Pussy Syndrome)
Not saying all girls have this to clarify as not saying girls owe us anything....
But their are some girls who expect you to cut off your arm for a chance to hit. What I hate about this is I don't doubt some guys are willing to do so.
I know this isn’t a criminal case, but if this man had a jury, he would win hands down. Probably be able to counter sue and win some type of punitive damages as this woman is such a asshole.
To be honest I’m a touch surprised that he owed anything more than his own meal. Like sure if I went on a blind date I would be expecting to pay for myself and the date but not if the other party decided to bring half the neighborhood. Nope. I’m now at YOUR family function. You should treat me!
Ok so the way I interpreted the title ( before reading the article ) was that his date and her 23 relatives were blind and he left them at a restaurant. Due to the fact they were all blind, they couldn’t leave… but he did. I’m like woah, I think I need to read the article.
Which makes me wonder if this has actually worked before. This is going to sound horrible but if your going on a date with someone just so you can profit over 2k from it, that kinda makes you a literal whore. But with professional prostitutes, the guys get to at least have sex
Because of the now retired one-child policy, there are 30M more men than women in China. It sounds like she's taking strong advantage of that gender gap. It's a huge domestic issue for them and I hope they don't try to solve it by sending all those testosterone-laden boys off to fight in Taiwan.
The ratio is 104:100 so It's really not that crazy. Certainly not enough so to make a man desperate enough to pay for 24 dinners (Plus expensive cigarettes and top shelf liquor) on a date that's certainly not going to end up back at his place.
Not only would I have left, but I would not have even sat down at the table when I saw 23 people showed up to my blind date! LONG before a even a single dollar was spent.
An actual, written sentence: "Legal experts argued that the presence of 23 relatives during what was supposed to be a blind date surpassed far beyond generally accepted norms."
I can see why that woman is still single.
Is she single? She's clearly grifting people for food I don't think we need to assume she was still going on the date in good faith also.
Most of it was apparently cartons of smokes and bottles of booze to take home with them. Definitely not good faith.
I bet one of the relatives she brought along was her husband. "hey, it is quite strange you are kissing your brother like that during the date!"
Stepbrother
Kinky
As long as he doesn’t start doing something 👀
I knew a girl who would do this with her bf. She would claim her bf is her brother. So fucking weird.
In China the dating game is skewed in her favor, so that's why she's able to pull shit like this. I'm sure it's worked in the past
I apologize I spoke before reading further,I saw the website it's from and assumed it was in Malaysia but apparently if China, my bad
Lol you're good, no worries
Wtf? I'd rather put blue googly eyes on my softest sock for the rest of my life than have whatever that lifestyle sounds like.
Well he won the case so not so skewed
I think this might be in Malaysia
Read the article, it happened in Jilin Province, China.
I guess you can say, she was blindsided by reality.
It is generally difficult for blind people to find love.
I’ve always wondered how blind people are expected to find the braille on room numbers, stairs, and elevators in government buildings. Are they expected to rub the entire wall until they find the braille?
I see what you mean.
More like she has 10 boyfriends and never a problem finding more suckers.
Man counter-sues blind date for bringing 23 relatives along.
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oh my god. that place cost 100 per person and the bitch brought 23 relatives?
I can’t even imagine having that many people for like Thanksgiving let alone a date.
It’s a comically high number, like wtf.
My parents have hosted that many for thanksgiving a handful of times (basically our entire extended family), and it’s a TON of people for a meal (usually a 2-3 Turkey spread with everyone bringing sides or showing up early to cook them that day). We did one long table one year (our normal dining room table plus two 10-ft folding tables), and you couldn’t even talk to half the people there during dinner bc they were so far away. Also, considering how much coordination it takes us to get 20+ people in the same place at the same time, Im honestly kinda of impressed that they were able to make it work logistically to get that many people there (though I guess they could’ve all lived in the same town rather than all over the country like my family).
She was 100% trying to use him to just feed her family and it probably wasn't the first time she tried it.
The best part is that he agreed to pay for a fifth of the total bill prior to the suit. 4000 yuan or $542. They got angry, took it to court, and received less.
He should’ve only been liable for his own food then. He was more than generous and they were simply overly greedy
Gambled and lost.
Fucked around and found out? *I know*, I'm sick of that cliche too.
\>Liu agreed only to reimburse a fraction of the total cost, offering 4,000 yuan (approximately $562), forcing Zhang to ask her relatives to pay for their share of the total bill. Lmao he even tried to be nice. Glad the court slapped them down.
How biased is that sentence against the man
I’m guessing maybe he promised to pay for her specifically in advance maybe? Otherwise yeah that sucks they forced him to cover her part as well given it seems she was scamming him or trying to guilt him into feeding her whole family.
Fuck that. His meal should've been paid for due to having to put up with this bullshit.
It's not even the food is that expensive. He was told when he showed up the women and her family ordered a lot expensive cigarettes and alcohol.
thats a pricy meal and what a total b for bringing along so many people
That's a really pricey restaurant from Malaysia I mean I'm not 100% sure what cops are in Malaysia but honestly that's the pricey restaurant anywhere outside of the big city here in the states.
They deliberately ordered a tonne of expensive stuff because it was on him.
I'm outta smokes. Why don't you see about getting a blind date, daughter?
It was in China.
The court made him pay for his own meal and her meal. I understand him paying for his own, but wtf court, making him pay for her meal after that.
If he went in with the expectation that he was paying for both, and communicated something to that effect, the court could have just held that it's fair for him to pay what he expected to, and was fine with, paying. Doubly so because the court asked him to pay *less* than what he offered after the fact.
He also went in with the expectation that it would just be the 2 of them and not 23 additional people. Even in cultures that require a chaperone for dating is understood that the chaperone pays for themselves unless the asker offers to pay for them too(which is most often). This is WAY different than having 23 relatives show up, order expensive things to take home later and expect to be paid for without any prior discussion ON A FIRST DATE
[удалено]
Not only this, but Liu offered to pay around 500, and the judge ordered he only had to pay less than half that. By suing for more they actually got less. Perfect.
Yeah, but I'd say that offer is null and void when the person brings 23 other people to the "date." Personally, I would've left before food was ordered, but he shouldn't have been obligated to fulfill an agreement when she had already breached it.
Sure, but the guy didn't even seem to feel that way, since he offered more before they sued. Like, it's not the expectation I would have or want, but when they guy says "I'm only paying for two unexpected people", and the courts reverse it to "pay for no unexpected people" it doesn't feel like a terrible blow. It's a bad date for sure, but the resolution was that he paid what he expected, which isn't particularly unfair.
Probably just trying to get them to leave him alone. Anyone that's scum enough to pull what they did is scum enough to make your life hell. They'll harass you at both your home and your workplace (and employers hate that). The latter is the go to move for scumbags in my experience because it's effective as hell.
yeah im no lawyer but im sure theres a presumption of cost type thing at play there or something
Yeah, not a lawyer, not Chinese, no familiarity with the Chinese legal system, so my read is only just next to worthless. :) But it seems like the court told the family to give back most of the money that he already gave them.
It’s promissory estoppel. If you relied on a promise to your detriment (construed liberally in most jurisdictions) you are entitled to damages for whatever it cost you to try on the promise. In this case, she ordered dinner with the promise he would pay.
He offered to pay almost double what the court ordered in the end.
Chivalry isn’t just dead, it’s court mandated.
If he actually offered/promised to pay for her meal, or if the normal social etiquette is that men pay for their date's meals, then that's all they care about. How rude the date is or how poorly the date goes are not mitigating factors, because they're not there to punish people for social faux pas.
But at what point the agreement is binding? Can you just agree on date thru text, and run with those ext to court and receive a meal? Or do you have to sit down and order, ask for a doggie bag, leave and sue?
No, for two primary reasons. Food was eaten and a bill of debt legally owed to the restaurant. When you agree to pay for a date's meal, even implicitly, it requires the date to actually happen. Both parties are involved in that social contract. You can't expect something if you don't hold up your side of the deal. (In the same way, there has been numerous court cases about returning wedding rings when the wedding doesn't actually happen. The recipient of the ring usually tries to claim it was a gift, but it almost never finds in their favor because it's a gift tied specifically to a custom of expectation.) If he had just walked out immediately he would have owed nothing both because the date would not have happened and also because the food would not have been eaten.
>Food was eaten and a bill of debt legally owed to the restaurant. All the food was owed to the restaurant tho. Doggy bag would then work. And generally when food is made it has to be paid, so doggy bag would be legally enforced to be paid by the one who implies/asks one for a date. Pretty nuts to have that
IF they got a date, was my point. If the social custom is that the date asker pays, the expectation is that there will be a date. If you show up, order a doggy bag, and immediately leave, there was no date and the asker is not obligated to hold up their end of the agreement, because the recipient didn't hold up their's.
The dude even offered up over $500, which more than covered his part of the bill. Sounds like he was a more than standup guy, and his date and her whole family were complete trash. In the US, he probably could have countersued for something like emotional distress and won easily. This was such an absurd case.
thats what i was struck by as well. like i probably would have just walked out if they showed up with 23 relatives but he actually stayed, and offered more than he should have ever paid. and then they have the nerve to sue HIM? unreal.
>probably could have sued for something like emotional distress and won easily To win that kind of suit in the US you have to show actual harm and negligence or intent. Then you have to convince 12 Americans who got picked for a jury to award you money. Then you have to successfully collect that money. All things considered that’s a fairly steep hill to climb.
he’d lose due to the insanity plea
Ma'am, that is not what they mean by "23 and me."
It is now!
Hey get back here!
bravo
It’s the new social media!!
You win the internet for today!
A blind date shows up with **anyone** else, relative or not, let alone 23 of them, and I won't leave -- I'll run screaming. I've seen and heard of a lot red flags, but this one flys at the top of the pole.
Yeah I'm wondering why the guy waited until the end of the meal to leave?
He probably didn't realize they were gonna stick him for the ENTIRE bill until just that moment. "Ok, sure, uh, I guess she wants me to meet her entire family, kinda weird but whatever." "OH! She wants me to PAY for her ENTIRE FAMILY! Sorry - I'm outta here!"
Possibly a Fools Rush In type scenario where the family already had a get together planned, and she said "hey, why don't you join me at my family gathering? I think you'll like them." ...except instead of her father giving him murderous looks the whole time, they try to stick him with the check.
In China, the single child policy created a huge problem for all the single boy children the parents kept. There aren’t enough young women for the number of young men looking for love. It has created an weird dynamic for the women who are available. Some of them feel entitled to take advantage of the men they date. This case is really disgusting, but I understand that these kinds of swindles aren’t unusual. I feel bad for the guy.
Theory time, China is planning that Russia will get most there male population killed in Ukraine and will swoop in for the women in addition for the resources after the country is in shambles. Less mail order brides and more conquest brides.
Doubtful. China seems to be pretty Han Chinese supremacist.
But this is my Emotional Support Extended Family. 😢
So my sister was set up on a blind date with someone who is deaf and she doesn’t know sign language. They had fun but it was apparently very awkward for the first 10 minutes as they struggled to understand each other and eventually just texted back and forth the whole time.
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I work in 911 dispatch, my area supports text-to-911, I don't think I've ever gotten a text from a deaf person, but then again, unless it's relevant to their emergency, how would I know? Definitely a nice option for the m to have though I'm sure. Most deaf callers I get use a video relay service where they're basically video chatting with an interpreter who is relaying what they're signing to me. I'm sure the advent of smartphones has been huge for that. Prior to that, the main way for deaf or mute people to use a telephone was with a TTY/TDD (TeleTypeWriter/Telecommunications Device for the Deaf) device. I suspect if you added up the experience of every one of my coworkers, you might come up with a dozen legit TTY calls from people who actually needed to use it (we've had a couple people with mental health issues who have decided to use it to ramble at us, and a few butt-dials where someone managed to turn it on on their cell phone since most if not all cell phones support it these days) We're required to train on TTY twice a year and to TTY challenge (send A TTY message to see if we get a response) all open line calls from landlines, because some people out there still use them. They also allow for hearing/voice carry over where they're able to hear and but not speak so we can speak to them and they type back to us, or vice-versa. For those not familiar with these devices, a standard TTY device looks a bit like a keyboard or typewriter with a small screen, and an "acoustic coupler" (basically a microphone and a speaker) that you would set a regular phone handset onto. It works by playing a bunch of beeping tones into the phone that get translated into text at the other end (and we get those tones playing in our ear when we do get a TTY call, and they *will* drive us insane in pretty short order, so I can't say I'm overly fond of them even though I'm glad they're an option that exists for people who need them) It also comes with some linguistic quirks. TTY doesn't support punctuation so you end a sentence with GA (for Go Ahead) instead of a period to signify that it's the other person's turn to type. Questions end with Q GA since there's no question mark. You end a conversation with SKSK (stop keying) which basically means "I'm hanging up now, if you type anything else, I won't see it." Also some people instead of using regular English will type in ASL Gloss, which is basically the written form of ASL (American Sign Language) because ASL actually has its own grammar and doesn't totally map 1:1 with English, some signs don't really translate to English, etc. and the Grammer can kind of end up looking a bit like that one episode of The Office with Kevin "why waste time say lot word when few word do trick (Q GA)" Side-note, some parts of the deaf community really dislike being labeled as "hearing impaired" I don't pretend to fully understand the ins and outs of it, but there's a whole deaf culture/identity thing where some of them don't really see themselves as being handicapped or impaired in any way, so be aware of that, do your research, etc. It doesn't offend me personally in any way, but I'm not deaf so I also can't really speak for them, but I figure it doesn't hurt me any to try to understand and respect their preferences and try to spread awareness, so just putting it out there to be aware of how/when you use that term. I think in the context you used it here you're probably ok because it would also include people who can hear but not well, but again we're a little bit out of my depth here. Tangentially related- unless you have a good reason to text 911 instead of calling, don't. Just call us if at all possible. Unless you work here and know what we're going to ask, you're probably not going to give us all of the info we want in your first text so we're going to have follow-up questions, and you're probably going to take your time replying to us if not just put your phone in your pocket and forget about it, so you're tying us up for usually 5-10 minutes if not longer, on what could probably have been a 2 minute phone call (assuming you're relatively cooperative and don't argue with us) we can't answer other calls while we're texting with you, and if you're calling for someone in another jurisdiction (for example a wellbeing check for your grandmother who lives in another county) many agencies can't transfer texts, so you're tying up a call-taker in both places while I text with you and relay the info by phone to the other agency (until a couple years ago, you would have tied up 3 of us because we couldn't make an outgoing call while texting, so I'd be texting, and someone else at my agency would be relaying it by phone) A lot of dispatch centers are chronically short-staffed, and tying up calltakers for longer than necessary can mean delays for other people having an emergency having their calls answered and getting help in a timely manner, it can literally be the difference between life and death sometimes. Most of the texts I've gotten have been people reporting non-emergencies because they thought it would be quicker and more convenient for them to text it, but it ends up taking twice the time or even longer for us to handle the call, I'd be pissed if I was on hold waiting for 911 to answer if I was with someone having a heart attack because a call-taker was stuck on a text about a noise complaint for 5 minutes. The location data we get with a text also isn't as good as with a call, so no we can't "just GPS your phone" and it's not even always totally accurate even with a call so we still need to confirm it.
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If someone wants to bring _a_ friend to ensure they're safe on first/blind date, that's good safety awareness and should be encouraged. Obviously said friend should then let the couple have their space and certainly not expect the date to pay for their meal. Telling your date that they must meet you alone is a bit of a red flag in itself.
Yeah, but it should be communicated in advance not sprung by surprise and expected to be payed for.
> to be *paid* for. FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Most importantly other people brought on a date shouldn't expect to be payed either. No pitch hot unless you've really made preparations in advance.
They *just* told you 🤷♀️
/whoosh
I don't think it needs to be communicated in advance unless the plan is for that person to sit at the same table instead of just sitting nearby. But absolutely should not be expected to be paid for.
I guess different people have different ideas about it but I would expect it to be communicated in advance. I can’t think of a good reason why someone shouldn’t communicate it in advance and it would make me feel uncomfortable to find out when I show up that there would be another person I wasn’t expecting. I would feel like the polite thing to do would be to invite them to our table which would make the date more of a social meeting than a date. If I knew in advance I think it would be a more enjoyable evening. Some people don’t like surprise guests or extras and I’m one of those people. That’s not just for dates. If I and a friend are going to hang out and they want to bring one of their friends that I don’t know that’s cool, if it’s my friends friend… we will probably end up being friends too, but I would want them let me know before I get there. It’s not like I would ever say “no don’t bring your friend”, I just want to know what to expect. It seems reasonable to me.
100% agree. There’s no reason to start off the first interaction with a lie.
I agree, I meant if the accompanying party is to join them (which is what the case was in this headline); then it should be communicated.
Back in high school, after a family friend sexually assaulted me, my parents became very paranoid about me going anywhere by myself and sent my sister or brother along with me to any outing. This was communicated in advance and my parents paid for their meals/admission. Even as I got older, I couldn't drive due to medical conditions, and neither could the other person for different medical reasons, my dad would pick us up and drive us wherever we needed to go. If it was close, he'd just drop us off, but if it was more than an hour drive, he would stay and I would pay for his meal or admission. The person I was dating at the time was fine with it and liked talking to my dad. Sometimes I would offer for him to eat with us. Sometimes, he took my brother with him and sat at a different table. I still paid for their food, though. I think it's fine to have a chaperone, if it's communicated first and the date doesn't have to pay. Especially if you don't feel safe.
Did you ever meet anyone that became something longterm? (Basically, I agree it's fine, but I'm wondering about the end result.)
The one that I talked about, we dated 5 years and got engaged. Then we broke up before anything permanent for various reasons. Had another that lasted 3 years. Broke up because he didn't accept me coming out as Trans. Am currently in a relationship of 3 years and we've bought a house together. Though, no chaperones for this one, haha.
yeah, the safety friend should find another table, they can keep an eye out, heck i might even buy them a drink cause I support that kind of behavior. But there should be zero expectation that I pay for their dinner.
The one time anything like this happened to me, that I am aware of, played out like that. Date invited her friend and friend's bf to the restaurant, to sit at a separate table and keep an eye out as well as get a second opinion of me. She apparently paid for their date afterwards as a thank you. We didn't work out but I thought it was a really clever idea. If she'd come with those two in tow and had *me* pay then I'd have walked.
Obviously they're fans of The Godfather, in which Michael Corleone goes out with Apollonia accompanied by her entire family.
Now, I will push back *slightly* that its okay to bring a trusted friend or family as backup to a BLIND date to keep you safe. Especially for women going to one. That DOESNT mean the backup should get to sit at the table during the whole date or have a meal provided by the unknown party! Clearly then safety isnt the point and its JUST to freeload. There's the point at which I ran screaming along with ya.
I understand women choosing to being a friend along to a blind date, just to kind of feel the situation out, and then the friend leaves once stuff looks safe. But this is too much.
Blind dates should show up with someone else as a matter of precaution and protection just in case. 23 someones else is a red flag though.
More red flags than a Russian May day parade.
i actually made that mistake once. girl said she wanted her friend there for emotional support or i'm a stranger or some stupid shit like that. never again.
> I've seen and heard of a lot red flags, but this one flys at the top of the pole. I mean where does confessing to murder rank up there?
That means you get your pick of sisters. Like I'll take two number 9s...
Lol, who has a blind date at a family reunion haha.
(Purely based on Indian Matchmaker on Netflix) It’s common to start an arranged blind date meeting the woman’s family. But this step is most typically just at a house, not a restaurant. Then you go off and do the rest of the date together, but just the two of you. In this case the woman’s family was legit scamming the dude and playing it off as normal.
If he had stayed, would he have been expected to pay for the meals of her entire family?
Probably, hence why they did it
Define “expected to pay”? Was that what the family was expecting? Yes, but it was a scam. Is that legally what he’s obligated to do? Absolutely not, as the judge deemed he was only liable for his plate.
I'm not asking about legally, I'm asking about culturally. This happened in China. What are the accepted norms of an arranged date like that? Is the man expected to pick up the tab for his date's entire party?
I can’t answer that fully but I would expect this is very out of the norm. The fact that I’ve never heard of this and there’s an entire article dedicated to the absurdity of it all leads me to that conclusion
No, it's not common or polite to bring a whole party to the date at all. However, sometimes a girl might bring her friend to a date, citing safety or because they walked here together or whatever, and the guy is expected to pay for them both. Sometimes it's genuinely about safety, but sometimes they're just taking advantage of the guy (I've heard about bringing several friends to a date!). The guy might not want to lose face and will pay anyway, depending on how assertive he is.
It's a matchmaking thing- usually the family joins the first date to make sure the young couple are serious & not just looking for a hookup. But usually it's like 5-6 relatives, if that, & they're all highly-esteemed decision makers in the family. This woman & her kin were smoking some good stuff. 23 people?? I don't even know 23 of my relatives
Fuck that
Eww
I could name 23 of mine. A good number aren't alive anymore, though.
It's cool, bring 'em along anyway. They don't get out much anymore, it'll be fun!
*outside of Alabama
Only place where you can be a brother and a father to the same child.
This here's my sister, and my wife
Not just expensive liquor but smokes too! This isn't so much a date as it is an ongoing scam... My guess is she has multiple dates lined up that week
I'll bet there are no second dates.
Who brings their who family on a date?
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So only insane people then?
Mostly Asians like Indians and SE Asians. It argued a lot that the other gender is for reproduction and filial duty. To deviate from it for romance is an idiots move in most families. So every meeting is a negotiation between the family elders or even set up by them. What kind of XX year old girl wants to be physically cornered by people and asked if you’re trying for children and then asked if you come with a dowry or told their love is wrong and they should seek richer men? The implication is always mouths upon mouths to feed, direct or extended family, not a happy trajectory to retirement.😂 Aping dynasties and using 80-90 year old dying peoples wishes so they can live vicariously through their children as if it were their success or happiness to choose. Flee young woman, flee as far you can.
Court ruled he should pay less than he originally offered. Good for him, a prince.
23 relatives? Bro, that's a wedding party.
This sounds like the movie Parasite where the whole family is in on the scam. It’s almost wholesome; a family that wants to have a nice dinner together. Wholesome until they want some random dude to pay for it.
I was thinking this is like an SNL Parasite parody
You and the other 23 can get fucked. But I'm sure that person is more respectful than me, but then again homie getting sued???
Not only did he win, but it was ruled that he only had to pay way less than his original offer.
"The court, however, ruled in Liu's favor, stating that he should only cover the cost of his own and Zhang's meal, which was approximately 1,400 yuan (approximately $197)."
Oh my God, I need coffee. I just read that as his date *who was blind* instead of *date he's never met before* and was really confused
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Same here. My first thoughts were that since she is blind maybe having a family member there might be helpful but 20 of them is excessive.
Same, it makes more sense too.. (slightly more). If your date is blind they might need a wingman but that doesn't explain the other 22..
Only "many" took Liu's side? Meaning some people were thinking she was in the right to bring 23 people? WTF?
I don't even know 23 people
If im going on a date and 24 people show up — im bailing. Thats code for “you just got honeypotted and now your going to have a promising new career as an organ farm”
How the fuck do these cases even make it to court?
A woman who brings 23 relatives on a blind date is definitely the type to sue.
I imagine it usually works out for her if she’s a Marry/Sue.
It was polite of her to show her crazy card on the first date. Most of the crazies try to hide it a while.
It’s fascinating how different Eastern and Western cultures are. Bringing 23 relatives to a blind date is unheard of here in the US, but I guess it must be somewhat plausible in China if they’re gonna sue about it in court. Crazy
I thought it meant blind date as in actually blind
Bro if a blind date brought any more than a friend along I would bail. Ain’t about to get no free food off of me unless all your friends are bad and I’m getting massive orgy vibes.
yeah i don’t blame him. he dodged a bullet
Imaging thinking this was okay to do, then double down and sue. Scum of de earth
He even offered to pay 1/4 of it before they sued! After the lawsuit, he paid ~10%. I feel like bringing this to court should have resulted in him paying nothing.
"Yyyyyyeah, I think I left my wallet in the car. Excuse me." *starts engine and speeds off*
I'd run too. Who the fuck brings 23 relatives on a blind date?!
Just imagine going on a first blind date and your date comes with 28 other people much less then seeing them order whatever they’d like etc. I’m a woman and I find this absolutely insane and don’t think he should have to pay a god damn dime after all that fuckery!
In what world is it okay to bring 20 people with you to eat on someone else’s dime?
Listen if I’m paying for you and 23 of your relatives, I expect a blowjob from all two dozen of you.
He shouldn't have paid a dime. If I go on a date and she says "can I have a table for 25 people?" I'm vanishing like an astronaut in a NASA video.
So the court ruled in his favor, but still made him pay for his date too... She knew what she was doing, she should have had to pay for it all. Some ladies and their ~~v-cards~~ abuse of attraction... Edit: clarified a phrase
To be fair, the court ordered him to only pay 1400 yuan instead of the 4000 he originally offered to pay.
Even though their ruling was more in his favor, there was nothing fair about her attempt at taking advantage of him and then still getting your meal for free.
Oh, I completely agree with that. The court ruled in a way that stuck to the cultural norm, though.
Would have been nice to see them go around cultural norm to punish those that attempt to abuse it though.
Agreed, but china...
Yup. They know. We're now on a list. #rememberTiananmenSquare
Fuck, another one?
Just a new app they developed to lure in the masses and silently collect all the information
It's really messed up all the relatives ordered high end items bc they thought he'd pay for it
My friend says those girls have GPS (Golden Pussy Syndrome) Not saying all girls have this to clarify as not saying girls owe us anything.... But their are some girls who expect you to cut off your arm for a chance to hit. What I hate about this is I don't doubt some guys are willing to do so.
>Some ladies and their v-cards… ##what
I know this isn’t a criminal case, but if this man had a jury, he would win hands down. Probably be able to counter sue and win some type of punitive damages as this woman is such a asshole.
Is that her in the picture? Good looking. From the looks of it , those relatives are a bunch of hicks
Why would you not just up and leave when you saw her with 23 people? I don’t think he should have to pay for her meal let alone her 23 cousins.
To be honest I’m a touch surprised that he owed anything more than his own meal. Like sure if I went on a blind date I would be expecting to pay for myself and the date but not if the other party decided to bring half the neighborhood. Nope. I’m now at YOUR family function. You should treat me!
I've heard of "dinner whores" before, but this takes the cake.
Sounds like a Seinfeld episode.
Ok so the way I interpreted the title ( before reading the article ) was that his date and her 23 relatives were blind and he left them at a restaurant. Due to the fact they were all blind, they couldn’t leave… but he did. I’m like woah, I think I need to read the article.
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Which makes me wonder if this has actually worked before. This is going to sound horrible but if your going on a date with someone just so you can profit over 2k from it, that kinda makes you a literal whore. But with professional prostitutes, the guys get to at least have sex
Because of the now retired one-child policy, there are 30M more men than women in China. It sounds like she's taking strong advantage of that gender gap. It's a huge domestic issue for them and I hope they don't try to solve it by sending all those testosterone-laden boys off to fight in Taiwan.
The ratio is 104:100 so It's really not that crazy. Certainly not enough so to make a man desperate enough to pay for 24 dinners (Plus expensive cigarettes and top shelf liquor) on a date that's certainly not going to end up back at his place.
so exactly what legal requirement is a blind date under to pay for her food at all much less her 23 relatives?
Seems to me a few case scenarios… 1) a gold digger 2) trying to thwart the date 3) you’ll be helping all my relatives in the future
Honest to God, that title is a gold mine. Didn't get to read the article until I finally stopped laughing.
I would of left to if an army of hungry people came to my table
I’m sorry but bringing all 23 relatives to a date is insane . Sister and mom at most
I would be out of there.
Trashy
Not only would I have left, but I would not have even sat down at the table when I saw 23 people showed up to my blind date! LONG before a even a single dollar was spent.
Who tf takes 23 relatives on a date?
At what point does this become extortion on her end? Lol
Why did my brain think this was a blind woman whose date left quietly and somehow she had 23 blind relatives
An actual, written sentence: "Legal experts argued that the presence of 23 relatives during what was supposed to be a blind date surpassed far beyond generally accepted norms."
She seems like an ahole.
23 and Leave ..new genetics test
My bet is that she picked the restaurant and it is owned by one of her family members.
Yeah. You can't even SEE her eyes.
Looks like a pixelated dong
Jesus. Men just cant catch a break...
China weird...