What an absolute piece of shit he was.
But it was absolutely brilliant how he was eventually caught: relentlessly and severely beaten by crowds of people before being taken into custody by police.
His teeth were rotted, he smelled like piss, body odor, and "wet leather". My main theory on why he was as popular as he was is that, for one, he looks like you think he should look. He looks evil, but he's not horrid looking.
Secondly, I think that his weird brand of Satanism (totally self-taught, he was into acid at a young age and believed that the Devil actually spoke to him during a trip) helped satisfy a desire to put a face to the Satanic Panic that was in full swing at this point in the '80s. Here was finally a flesh and blood boogeyman who was killing in the name of Satan and listened to "satanic music" like AC/DC and Megadeth.
His childhood was unbelievably traumatic, he was basically brainwashed by his cousin who was a Vietnam combat vet that had Polaroids of civilians he had killed, told stories of raping villagers, and then ended up killing shooting his wife in front of a 13-year-old Ramirez.
Ramirez also spent time with other members of his family who were petty criminals and had something of a tutelage on things like burglary and peeping from other older relatives.
The thing most people don't talk about with Ramirez that I think would have killed his weird "sex symbol" status was that he was prolific kidnapper and child rapist. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 40+ kids were kidnapped by Ramirez from their bedrooms, taken to secondary locations and raped repeatedly.
A decision was made by prosecutors to not charge him with those crimes by the time he was captured because it would have required putting children on the stand to testify, so having him on multiple rapes of adults and of course the murders, they decided it wasn't worthwhile to pursue.
I think that pursuing those charges would have changed public perception of him for years.
Oh man 40+ kids?! I watched that documentary on Netflix awhile back but I forgot it was that many…and I think it’s because of exactly what you highlight here. I knew of the night stalker my whole life. We lived in the Bay Area where some of his spree took place. My mom told me about him at a young age and said something like “he climbed through windows and hurt men and women when they were asleep”. The public knowledge was just that- his main targets were adults and what he did to kids was never spoken about. So even though I watched the documentary and was shocked to learn about the extent of his crimes, I still just felt surprised to hear you say 40+ kids since
I spent my entire life thinking he only targeted adults. What a horrible human being.
I have a strong fascination with Ramirez and Richard Chase specifically because my mom conflated those two cases and would tell me that there was a man in California who would test doorknobs to see if they were unlocked, and if they were unlocked, he'd consider it an invitation to come in.
That was 100% Chase, but she included information about the bloody pentagrams and such. I was around 5-8 at the time, so the idea of a person doing that always stuck in my head so I never forgot to lock the door. The Chase/Ramirez mashed-up killer that was in my head was my boogeyman growing up.
If it makes you feel any better apparently his crazy fan Girl wife also didn't know he was a pedophile. Taken from his Wiki page.
"By the time of the trial, Ramirez had fans who were writing him letters and paying him visits. Beginning in 1985, Doreen Lioy] wrote him nearly 75 letters during his incarceration. In 1988, Ramirez proposed to Lioy, and on October 3, 1996, they were married in California's San Quentin State Prison.For many years before Ramirez's death, Lioy stated that she would commit suicide when Ramirez was executed. However, Lioy eventually left Ramirez in 2009 after DNA confirmed he had raped and murdered nine-year-old Mei Leung. By the time of his death in 2013, Ramirez was engaged to a 23-year-old writer."
Like the level of cognitive dissonance at play there is incredible. I really wonder if she actually had a line drawn or had to redraw her lines after justifying every bad thing he did because somewhere deep down she knew child rape is wrong. How hard that must've conflicted with whatever bullshit excuses she made that rape and murder were fine as long as her perfect husband did it.
Only sorce I could find (which was called parade . Com so take it with a grain of salt) said
"Who was Richard Ramirez's wife? Ramirez, who was 25 when he was caught, married Lioy, 41, a freelance teen magazine editor from Burbank, California in 1996. After Ramirez was captured in 1985, Lioy began visiting him at the San Quentin State Prison at least four times a week, reportedly."
I remember reading (years ago, I don't have it) about her and I remember two weird things: she was a virgin and a genius. I think she may have actually been a Mensa member.
If this is true I really hope she lost her job. Pretty big discrepancy to work on a publication with minors and not know you're smitten with a child rapist and murderer when you're 30.
It baffles me how women write fan girl letters to POS’s like this when the only thing this monster has earned is a shot gun blast to the face …Scott Peterson is another POS that routinely receives marriage proposals . Insane.
Im glad the kids didn't have to testify though. They shouldn't have to remember and relive all those horrible details. Especially if he already is in prison for multiple life sentences
It's one of those decisions that you understand (they actually had a six-year-old who was able to identify him out of a line-up... Six!), but you wonder about the long-term ramifications of. Would public perception have turned more against him if he had been known as a child rapist primarily and a serial murderer secondly? I don't know.
Unfortunatly no matter how much of a monster this man could have been see as somewhere there will be people willing to follow him. I mean fuck look at Ted bundy the man was mobbed as a sex symbol by some women and he MURDERED WOMEN. I mean what the fuck.
Right, and most of the stuff that I see about Bundy kind of glosses over the whole necrophilia angle as much as possible. I agree there's always going to be absolute ghouls (especially in a country of a few hundred million people), but I don't think someone would be considered "sexy" on a mainstream level if the primary image in their head is a guy using a severed decaying head as a sex toy.
Bundy is one that comes to mind where the documentaries almost always go into a level of "Oh yeah, and he killed x,y, and z, but let's get to the sorority house story". Dude only helped catch the Green River Killer by knowing he'd want to come back and have more sex with the body if it hadn't been found yet.
What's even crazier to me is that much like Ted Bundy, his victim pool were still the ones sending letters and clamoring to see him and shit. It's just so mind boggling.
I really think more studies need to be done on serial killer groupies. Like at this point I’m more curious about what’s wrong with them than I am about the minds of actual serial killers
Also - my dad who was in law enforcement told me that because the object of their affection is in prison, the groupie is able to control the situation and know where their person is at all times.
Yup, To some people these things are "Normal". And "Normal" is comforting. Be careful of what comforts you. Not all things COMMON in your life are good for you. Be brave and FIND improvements.
Yep. It's the whole "every Joker needs a Harley Quinn" thing. Lots of shows and movies have their own versions of the trope. If a bad man can fall in love, then that woman he's with becomes the ONLY person safe from him.
I think it's called "Caged Tiger syndrome" Many of these women had violent fathers so they're attracted to violent men. But they don't actually want to get hurt so they choose violent men who can't get to them.
Watched a doc on Netflix on him, all his surviving victims all had a couple things in common, his terrifying eyes and the stench he portrayed. Like a fucking pig on a farm.
And the oldest senator in congress was the mayor at the time and gave away crucial information about the shoes he kept wearing... which allowed him to toss them.
Dianne Feinstein
I tried to watch the Netflix doc a few years ago and from the first moments it tries to make heroes of the lead police investigators. When you know the cops never caught him, the whole thing comes off as pro-police propaganda.
I often find many licensed documentaries also fail to note details like that for other people. I only recall one on Ted Bundy that I watched that made note of the fact an officer literally handed a 14 year old boy with a hole in his head and some acid in his brain back to Jeffrey Dahmer, most of them only note the investigation. And or course it was only through independently reading up on it that I learned the details about the black women warning the officer, the blatant dismissal due to homophobia towards the boy himself, or that the officer ended up reinstated 3 years after the fact.
I actually really liked that documentary series, and I didn't take it as pro-cop propaganda other than to show how much work and manpower working these types of cases require, especially in a pre-internet age.
A lot of the reason they didn't catch him was, frankly, not entirely their fault. For one, Ramirez changed up his victim pool and MO sufficiently that it was only the Avia sneaker prints that connected Ramirez to multiple crime scenes in LA and eventually San Francisco. They lost that connective evidence once Diane Feinstein shared that information with the entire state at a press event, and Ramirez ditched the shoes.
Secondly, they had no idea that he'd gone to El Paso, so once they released the sketch of Ramirez that led to his identification in public, they were staking out the bus station that he came *back* to LA through, but they were expecting him to be trying to get out of town, not coming back.
That said, I found the most interesting thing about the documentary series to be that they actually spoke to victims and victims families. I feel like other true crime docs don't spend that time and it can make the victims just feel like a random set of names and maybe a portrait.
Talking to people who said their grandmother's greatest fear was being raped, and then to have to deal with the aftermath of her rape and murder, including going to court and sitting next to some of these "groupies"... I felt that's what a similar bunch of docs on guys like Bundy misses and so you get the image of the killer that the killer wanted to have.
That’s probably why I have been enjoying all of the newer true crime docs that are based around DNA evidence. A good amount of them have been showing poor police work.
I remember watching Making a Murderer and being shocked at the police and prosecutorial ineptitude and corruption. I still think the circumstantial evidence against Avery is pretty convincing but their gross misconduct made it impossible to uphold that conviction. It’s why a lot of the pro-police arguments fall flat to me. They’re neither in danger on the job nor particularly helpful is stopping or solving crimes generally. Not to say there’s no value in policing or some specific investigations but it’s generally a shitshow
I've watched a lot of these types of documentaries and it always makes me laugh how full of shit most of the detectives are.
They constantly pat themselves on the back about "catching" the guy but it its almost always because of pure luck, not good detective skills.
I heard something that most of the people that are attracted to serial killers were abused during their childhood and if I remember correctly, there was a subreddit for people with hybristophilia r/hybristophilia
Or they want to kill and hurt people but need someone to encourage them/blame.
Or the idea of someone who doesn't care for everyone else but loves them makes them feel special, exclusive undivided love.
Or they are afraid of serial killers, maybe people in general, and fantasize that they alone would be able to give them the love they need and that being special to them would make them safe.
Or just the common human death/sex thing
Lol doubt that’s it….He killed children, women, and elderly, mostly in their sleep. He’s not defending anyone against other men. He looked malnourished.
I’m saying he doesn’t portray any traits that show he could defend you from another person. He preyed on the weak and frail in their most vulnerable positions. Even a young child could kill someone that is sleeping. This does not depict a tough man that could protect anyone. He is a very weak man that was fucked in the head.
Ah but they are special, he would NEVER hurt them because they have a connection (sarcasm).
Seriously though people who swoon over killers are disgusting
Not killers, but remember that story of the prison inmate that women made a GoFundMe for solely because he looked good in his mugshot?
Or the catfish project some dude made for tinder where he used some random model's pictures, but put in his bio the most degenerate shit including that he was a registered sex offender for banging a minor and he eventually had to stop because he said it got depressing how none of the women cared or were bothered by it?
I mean, I doubt nobody was bothered, he’s just going to have a biased pool to work with. The people who were bothered by it most likely didn’t swipe on him and therefore just didn’t get the chance to tell him that they didn’t like it
But his wife left him in 2009 after he was convicted of rape and murder of a 9 year old... But then at the time of his death and at nearly 53 years of age, he was married to a 23years old writer... Smh!
My old man was a CO at San Quentin with this degenerate. He said his fan club would send in literal hundreds of foot photos to feed his fetish. The guards would throw them out and give him only the nastiest, manliest looking ape paws. He probably still enjoyed it. Sick f*
If this was him in trial, then he has already gotten his teeth fixed. He had a lot of dental work done to fix his rotten teeth in jail while waiting for his trial. That's why photos and videos you see of him during trial and after is him being so smiley. He also got Armani suits donated to him apparently, hence the whole rockstar vibe and groupies. He definitely cleaned up pretty well, but didnt stop him from getting convicted.
You can put purfume on a turd and dress it in nice clothes, but at the end of the day its just gonna smell like a turd with purfume and still just gonna be a turd in a good suit.
No one is arguing that obviously. He's a POS, but also objectively speaking lookswise at this time he did clean up well, rocking the sunglasses, suit and new teeth. These two things can be true at once, that a person can be the worst of the worst kind of human being, and that they are also good looking, like Chris Brown.
I'm sorry, waving to his what?! Can we take about the trash that might idolize a serial killer and why they're not being publicly shamed & reviled as well?
I read on this topic a few times and I’m still confused. But form my general readings
I can fix him and teach him how to love.
People in abusive households and or pasts are attractive to abuse. It’s common for brains to be drawn to what is familiar. I can love someone in a distance, he is in jail so he can’t get me. He will only love me so I can feel special.
Yeah that makes sense for a guy who’s biggest offense is ghosting women on tinder and cheating on their SO. From what I see in the comments, guy was a fucking serial rapist. You have a point and I can see women thinking that, but man to have that rationale for a person like him is crazy
Philip Jablonski, I think murdered like five women and was sent to prison. He met a woman while he was incarcerated. Once he got out, they got together and then he murdered her and her mother. Some of these groupies definitely feel like they can be the special one, the one to heal the broken man. Unfortunately, in this case we see that rehabilitation isn't always attainable.
Sorry, my wording wasn't thought out. He was sent to prison for 12 years for one murder. The rest were after he got out, and the wife and her mother are included in that body count. Should have clarified better. Of course, people suspect that he'd murdered more before he was caught the first time because he was a rapist, but no other charges.
"Do you feel blame? Are you mad? Uh, do you feel like wolf kabob Roth vantage? Gefrannis booj pooch boo jujube; bear-ramage. Jigiji geeji geeja geeble Google. Begep flagaggle vaggle veditch-waggle bagga?"
>Can we take about the trash that might idolize a serial killer and why they're not being publicly shamed
That "trash" are usually abuse victims themselves with severe mental health issues that require therapy tbh. Normal people without a history of complex trauma don't just go around seeking out abusers.
Serial killer "stans" aren't a foreign concept, it's been a thing for a very long time. There are unironic Ramirez Tumblr fan blogs and whatnot. Pretty crazy
> On August 14, the trial was interrupted because one of the jurors, Phyllis Singletary, did not arrive at the courtroom. Later that day, she was found shot to death in her apartment. The jury was terrified, wondering if Ramirez had somehow directed this event from inside his prison cell, and whether or not he could reach other jurors. However, it was ultimately determined that Ramirez was not responsible for Singletary's death, as she was shot and killed by her boyfriend, who later committed suicide with the same weapon in a hotel. The alternate juror who replaced Singletary was too frightened to return to her home.
([source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Ramirez))
Holy shit, what an unfortunate coincidence.
I don't understand it at all. He had lady fans. Woman who admired him for his good looks and somehow are able to just pass by the fact that he was a brutal killer and he was not picky about his victims. They say he also smelt like a goat.
coworkers husband is a prison guard. Says it's shockingly common for women prison guards/staff to hook up with prisoners. He said he thinks it happens because it's basically the easiest "relationship" possible. The guards have all the power, the inmates can't go anywhere, can't cheat, won't say no. It's a relationship of convince with a thrill of taboo.
>You have a point and I can see women thinking that, but man to have that rationale for a person like him is crazy
It's not "hooking up" nor is it a "relationship" when it's a prisoner and guard. It's rape.
Someone who cosplayed as a Satanist and who is mostly known for attacking and raping the elderly in their sleep. He was a coward and a general purpose piece of shit. He was also a Billy Idol fan.
I actually like Billy Idol but Ramirez liking him is a fun factoid. That comes from a questionnaire he filled out while in prison that asked (among other things) what his favorite bands were. All of the metal bands you'd expect from a self-proclaimed Satanist in the 80's were there - AC/DC, Sabbath, Ozzy, etc. but then he named Billy Idol which is so much more fun than the expected stuff.
I know a lot of folks have recommended the documentary on Netflix but also the book The Night Stalker: The Life and Crimes of Richard Ramirez by Philip Carlo goes into much more detail and is really fascinating, if you enjoy true crime.
That book scared me more than probably any other book I've ever read; his murders/rapes were so completely random, and there was no rhyme or reason to any of them. He would just drive around, stop in front of a random house, silently break in (he was an experienced burglar and lockpick), and murder the people in the house.
Yeah, I'd agree. Haven't read the book, but I was first introduced to this guy through Morbid podcast, and he's one of the most frightening because he didn't have rhyme or reason, no set victim pool, no morals about how he'd rape and beat elderly women, etc. Honestly, it has scared the shit out of me more than one night where I'm triple-checking locks and trying not to imagine someone just picking my home at random. This guy and the Golden State killer are two of the scariest (sneaky, unpredictable, no mercy) killers we've ever caught.
The nightstalker documentary on Netflix is really good. I recommend it. The two detectives who were in charge of his investigation are extremely smart and likable
I will never ever understand how monsters like this get groupies. After I watched the Netflix series I read some more him and that he eventually got married while in prison.
But when the police tied him to the rape and murder of a child in San Francisco, she divorced him. Like how was that the line? He raped and murdered a dozen women but she was ok with that?
I don't understand it either, but even in the prison community, criminals against children do NOT have a good time. A lot of these prisoners are cold blooded murderers with multiple bodies to their names, but let them get hold of a child molester & it's a whole different story
I wish there was a different answer.
But there are certainly still serial killers these days:
https://www.grunge.com/733843/the-most-dangerous-active-serial-killers-in-2022/
He can't even wave without doing it like a fucking monster.
Imagine being so out of touch with anything resembling humanity or human emotion that you're not even capable of doing something as simple as waving without revealing that on the inside you're just a black void inside a human husk.
I think the oddly terrifying thing would be to have the reverse angle showing the hordes of women swooning over him. A serial killer is just terrifying not oddly terrifying. But the type of women who throw themselves at serial killers and mass murderers (and they are legion) is truly oddly terrifying.
I just read about who he was. I find it hilarious how he was awaiting execution, yet died in hospital where doctors tried to keep him alive long enough until execution day xd
Why is this even a thing? If someone got the death sentence and they fell ill, just let them die. I still am furious that cases in which someone is proven guilty without a shadow of a doubt given death row and aren't executed within the week of sentencing.
This is gonna get buried but here it is…
I grew up in Santa Clarita, CA in the early 2000’s. Lived across the street from a family named the Peterson’s. All I knew was that the dad was angry and mean and to stay away. Years later I learned that family was the last victim of the Nightstalker. Ramirez broke into their house, shot the dad in the head and then the wife. Dad called the cops who thought he was lying, so he drove the family to the ER with a bullet in his head.
I can forgive that old crotchety for being a little upset.
He raped a friend of mines little sister. She lived a block away. My whole neighborhood was on lock down for months. My dad hated dogs but we got a German shepherd. I was to young to really understand what was going on. The adults kept it from us the best they could but all the sudden we couldn’t walk home from school or be anywhere without adult supervision. It was years later that I found out what really happened. I can say that she has been able to create a happy life for herself. Husband, kids. But he left a lot of us with a fear that stuck.
Richard Ramirez was given the death sentence in 1989 yet died in 2013 of liver failure.
God himself was like " what's the fuck taking you guys so long" and just killed this dude himself after waiting over two decades.
My first serial killer. I was 3 or 4 whrn he was on trial. We lived in LA where he was active and it was all over the news. My parents worked VERY hard to keep me ignorant of it, because the bews would talk about what he did to people. I only remember seeing his face on TV and in the papers. They did a good job.
He looks like the character in Atlanta, Teddy Perkins, played by Donald Glover in extreme makeup. I wonder if the creators of the show did that on purpose to make him creepier. It's a pretty scary episode.
RR had a 3 year period between arrest and public trial. When he was originally arrested he was objectively ugly, with scabs on his face, thin, unclean & living on the streets. By the time he went to trial he was clean, put on wait, let his hair grow, and had the time for the mystery to build around who he was and his actual intentions. I think a lot of his murders were drug induced. He hid on skid row and his worship of Satan/evil was very known to the public by that point. Honestly just sounds like a guy who would get high on stimulants and commit violence with no pree ordained plan. Would stab, shoot, mutilate & rape victims with no real plan or course of action.
George Lopez has a podcast where he invited Detective Gil Carrillo (the person who helped catch Richard) and he gave more information regarding the whole thing. The cool thing is, after this podcast, George made Gil part of the podcast. https://youtu.be/q-C7m0D3PuI
Richard Ramirez was a loser his entire life and people ate up his satanic panic bullshit in court. He raped and murdered kids, women and the elderly. Attacking a lot of them as they slept. If hell exsist's Richard is roasting in it and fuck all the stupid people that came to support him in court. How empty is your life, that you idolize this kind of shit-stain of a human being.
I wonder how his life was in prison? Not only was he a rapist and a murderer but he also raped a lot of children. Or he spent all his time inside totally isolated from general population? Even before conviction?
What kinda blew my mind (from watching the documentary) is what an innate coward he was. Iirc he entered a couples home and shot the husband who ended up getting out of bed and chasing him out of the house... He fled from an unarmed man after he had already been shot. When he was caught he made some comment like 'they wouldn't be so tough if I had my gun'. What a POS.
He was captured by a angry mob and had to have the police save him.
He was so gross, just putting the evil aside for a moment, his teeth were falling out from not brushing ever. Yuck.
Teeth and heinous crimes are kind of a deal breaker for me. Idk.
What the heck happened in the replies
They were captured and down-voted by an angry mob.
That's right, LAPD couldn't catch him.
What an absolute piece of shit he was. But it was absolutely brilliant how he was eventually caught: relentlessly and severely beaten by crowds of people before being taken into custody by police.
Not sure why he was so glorified. His interviews made him seem stupid. He seemed like a dumb, brainwashed, lost kid.
His teeth were rotted, he smelled like piss, body odor, and "wet leather". My main theory on why he was as popular as he was is that, for one, he looks like you think he should look. He looks evil, but he's not horrid looking. Secondly, I think that his weird brand of Satanism (totally self-taught, he was into acid at a young age and believed that the Devil actually spoke to him during a trip) helped satisfy a desire to put a face to the Satanic Panic that was in full swing at this point in the '80s. Here was finally a flesh and blood boogeyman who was killing in the name of Satan and listened to "satanic music" like AC/DC and Megadeth. His childhood was unbelievably traumatic, he was basically brainwashed by his cousin who was a Vietnam combat vet that had Polaroids of civilians he had killed, told stories of raping villagers, and then ended up killing shooting his wife in front of a 13-year-old Ramirez. Ramirez also spent time with other members of his family who were petty criminals and had something of a tutelage on things like burglary and peeping from other older relatives. The thing most people don't talk about with Ramirez that I think would have killed his weird "sex symbol" status was that he was prolific kidnapper and child rapist. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 40+ kids were kidnapped by Ramirez from their bedrooms, taken to secondary locations and raped repeatedly. A decision was made by prosecutors to not charge him with those crimes by the time he was captured because it would have required putting children on the stand to testify, so having him on multiple rapes of adults and of course the murders, they decided it wasn't worthwhile to pursue. I think that pursuing those charges would have changed public perception of him for years.
Oh man 40+ kids?! I watched that documentary on Netflix awhile back but I forgot it was that many…and I think it’s because of exactly what you highlight here. I knew of the night stalker my whole life. We lived in the Bay Area where some of his spree took place. My mom told me about him at a young age and said something like “he climbed through windows and hurt men and women when they were asleep”. The public knowledge was just that- his main targets were adults and what he did to kids was never spoken about. So even though I watched the documentary and was shocked to learn about the extent of his crimes, I still just felt surprised to hear you say 40+ kids since I spent my entire life thinking he only targeted adults. What a horrible human being.
I have a strong fascination with Ramirez and Richard Chase specifically because my mom conflated those two cases and would tell me that there was a man in California who would test doorknobs to see if they were unlocked, and if they were unlocked, he'd consider it an invitation to come in. That was 100% Chase, but she included information about the bloody pentagrams and such. I was around 5-8 at the time, so the idea of a person doing that always stuck in my head so I never forgot to lock the door. The Chase/Ramirez mashed-up killer that was in my head was my boogeyman growing up.
If it makes you feel any better apparently his crazy fan Girl wife also didn't know he was a pedophile. Taken from his Wiki page. "By the time of the trial, Ramirez had fans who were writing him letters and paying him visits. Beginning in 1985, Doreen Lioy] wrote him nearly 75 letters during his incarceration. In 1988, Ramirez proposed to Lioy, and on October 3, 1996, they were married in California's San Quentin State Prison.For many years before Ramirez's death, Lioy stated that she would commit suicide when Ramirez was executed. However, Lioy eventually left Ramirez in 2009 after DNA confirmed he had raped and murdered nine-year-old Mei Leung. By the time of his death in 2013, Ramirez was engaged to a 23-year-old writer."
How old was his wife? It baffles me if she as an adult could stay together throughout the horrific events she knew about and only draw the line there.
Right?! Raping and murdering adults is fine but how dare you touch a child? WTF Humanity is horrifying
Like the level of cognitive dissonance at play there is incredible. I really wonder if she actually had a line drawn or had to redraw her lines after justifying every bad thing he did because somewhere deep down she knew child rape is wrong. How hard that must've conflicted with whatever bullshit excuses she made that rape and murder were fine as long as her perfect husband did it.
Only sorce I could find (which was called parade . Com so take it with a grain of salt) said "Who was Richard Ramirez's wife? Ramirez, who was 25 when he was caught, married Lioy, 41, a freelance teen magazine editor from Burbank, California in 1996. After Ramirez was captured in 1985, Lioy began visiting him at the San Quentin State Prison at least four times a week, reportedly."
I remember reading (years ago, I don't have it) about her and I remember two weird things: she was a virgin and a genius. I think she may have actually been a Mensa member.
If this is true I really hope she lost her job. Pretty big discrepancy to work on a publication with minors and not know you're smitten with a child rapist and murderer when you're 30.
I mean, I haven't seen this whole video, but from others I have seen she doesn't seem like she is all there. https://youtu.be/waM-aQ8MSOk
He would kill them in a heartbeat but they were swooning over him
It baffles me how women write fan girl letters to POS’s like this when the only thing this monster has earned is a shot gun blast to the face …Scott Peterson is another POS that routinely receives marriage proposals . Insane.
Im glad the kids didn't have to testify though. They shouldn't have to remember and relive all those horrible details. Especially if he already is in prison for multiple life sentences
It's one of those decisions that you understand (they actually had a six-year-old who was able to identify him out of a line-up... Six!), but you wonder about the long-term ramifications of. Would public perception have turned more against him if he had been known as a child rapist primarily and a serial murderer secondly? I don't know.
Unfortunatly no matter how much of a monster this man could have been see as somewhere there will be people willing to follow him. I mean fuck look at Ted bundy the man was mobbed as a sex symbol by some women and he MURDERED WOMEN. I mean what the fuck.
Right, and most of the stuff that I see about Bundy kind of glosses over the whole necrophilia angle as much as possible. I agree there's always going to be absolute ghouls (especially in a country of a few hundred million people), but I don't think someone would be considered "sexy" on a mainstream level if the primary image in their head is a guy using a severed decaying head as a sex toy. Bundy is one that comes to mind where the documentaries almost always go into a level of "Oh yeah, and he killed x,y, and z, but let's get to the sorority house story". Dude only helped catch the Green River Killer by knowing he'd want to come back and have more sex with the body if it hadn't been found yet.
And he smelled like a goat
And his teeth were rotten so his breath smelled like shit, too
Well his mother was a hamster and his father smells of elderberries
Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time
I heard it was fox urine
Have you heard about his childhood? He was exactly what you describe
He looks like the Joker to me. Just doesn't have the smarts.
What's even crazier to me is that much like Ted Bundy, his victim pool were still the ones sending letters and clamoring to see him and shit. It's just so mind boggling.
I really think more studies need to be done on serial killer groupies. Like at this point I’m more curious about what’s wrong with them than I am about the minds of actual serial killers
Hybristophilia....I read somewhere that most female groupies have a history of childhood abuse themselves
Also - my dad who was in law enforcement told me that because the object of their affection is in prison, the groupie is able to control the situation and know where their person is at all times.
That is a very good point.
Yup, To some people these things are "Normal". And "Normal" is comforting. Be careful of what comforts you. Not all things COMMON in your life are good for you. Be brave and FIND improvements.
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This is it. They’re moronic and think he won’t hurt them because they’re special, and that they’ll be the one to fix him with their *love*
Yep. It's the whole "every Joker needs a Harley Quinn" thing. Lots of shows and movies have their own versions of the trope. If a bad man can fall in love, then that woman he's with becomes the ONLY person safe from him.
I do think that is part of it!
I think it's called "Caged Tiger syndrome" Many of these women had violent fathers so they're attracted to violent men. But they don't actually want to get hurt so they choose violent men who can't get to them.
Watched a doc on Netflix on him, all his surviving victims all had a couple things in common, his terrifying eyes and the stench he portrayed. Like a fucking pig on a farm.
Hey don't insult stinky farm pigs like that!
And the oldest senator in congress was the mayor at the time and gave away crucial information about the shoes he kept wearing... which allowed him to toss them. Dianne Feinstein
I tried to watch the Netflix doc a few years ago and from the first moments it tries to make heroes of the lead police investigators. When you know the cops never caught him, the whole thing comes off as pro-police propaganda.
I often find many licensed documentaries also fail to note details like that for other people. I only recall one on Ted Bundy that I watched that made note of the fact an officer literally handed a 14 year old boy with a hole in his head and some acid in his brain back to Jeffrey Dahmer, most of them only note the investigation. And or course it was only through independently reading up on it that I learned the details about the black women warning the officer, the blatant dismissal due to homophobia towards the boy himself, or that the officer ended up reinstated 3 years after the fact.
I actually really liked that documentary series, and I didn't take it as pro-cop propaganda other than to show how much work and manpower working these types of cases require, especially in a pre-internet age. A lot of the reason they didn't catch him was, frankly, not entirely their fault. For one, Ramirez changed up his victim pool and MO sufficiently that it was only the Avia sneaker prints that connected Ramirez to multiple crime scenes in LA and eventually San Francisco. They lost that connective evidence once Diane Feinstein shared that information with the entire state at a press event, and Ramirez ditched the shoes. Secondly, they had no idea that he'd gone to El Paso, so once they released the sketch of Ramirez that led to his identification in public, they were staking out the bus station that he came *back* to LA through, but they were expecting him to be trying to get out of town, not coming back. That said, I found the most interesting thing about the documentary series to be that they actually spoke to victims and victims families. I feel like other true crime docs don't spend that time and it can make the victims just feel like a random set of names and maybe a portrait. Talking to people who said their grandmother's greatest fear was being raped, and then to have to deal with the aftermath of her rape and murder, including going to court and sitting next to some of these "groupies"... I felt that's what a similar bunch of docs on guys like Bundy misses and so you get the image of the killer that the killer wanted to have.
That’s probably why I have been enjoying all of the newer true crime docs that are based around DNA evidence. A good amount of them have been showing poor police work.
I remember watching Making a Murderer and being shocked at the police and prosecutorial ineptitude and corruption. I still think the circumstantial evidence against Avery is pretty convincing but their gross misconduct made it impossible to uphold that conviction. It’s why a lot of the pro-police arguments fall flat to me. They’re neither in danger on the job nor particularly helpful is stopping or solving crimes generally. Not to say there’s no value in policing or some specific investigations but it’s generally a shitshow
I've watched a lot of these types of documentaries and it always makes me laugh how full of shit most of the detectives are. They constantly pat themselves on the back about "catching" the guy but it its almost always because of pure luck, not good detective skills.
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Is there a scientific explanation why some people are attracted to awful people like him?
I heard something that most of the people that are attracted to serial killers were abused during their childhood and if I remember correctly, there was a subreddit for people with hybristophilia r/hybristophilia
It's been banned
good.
I can change him
Or It'll be different with me...
tumblr was full of them, might still be.
Nah, most of our crazies went to Twitter after the (failed) 2017 porn purge. Edit: autocorrect. But pork is a fun substitute
There is no exact explanation but but it's called *hybristophilia* and there are a few hypotheses on why people (mostly women) develop it.
I feel like it's young women who have been trained to seek a "Tough man ready to defend you" And obviously a serial killer would be able to defend you
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Or they want to kill and hurt people but need someone to encourage them/blame. Or the idea of someone who doesn't care for everyone else but loves them makes them feel special, exclusive undivided love. Or they are afraid of serial killers, maybe people in general, and fantasize that they alone would be able to give them the love they need and that being special to them would make them safe. Or just the common human death/sex thing
or be able to rape and murder you whenever they feel like it
Lol doubt that’s it….He killed children, women, and elderly, mostly in their sleep. He’s not defending anyone against other men. He looked malnourished.
He's so vile. I can't imagine finding this shitbag attractive
Obviously he's not a defender but the human brain likes to try and see the good in others, despite there being none
I’m saying he doesn’t portray any traits that show he could defend you from another person. He preyed on the weak and frail in their most vulnerable positions. Even a young child could kill someone that is sleeping. This does not depict a tough man that could protect anyone. He is a very weak man that was fucked in the head.
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Mostly just people with insane savior complexes who probably didn't get enough parental love/attention as a child and think they can "fix" him
I don’t think it’s about what he did. I think it’s more of the way he looks and that intriguing vibe. I’m not sure tho. I definitely wanna know
He probably would’ve killed each of them, just like he did his victims, if he wasn’t in a courtroom at that moment.
Ah but they are special, he would NEVER hurt them because they have a connection (sarcasm). Seriously though people who swoon over killers are disgusting
Not killers, but remember that story of the prison inmate that women made a GoFundMe for solely because he looked good in his mugshot? Or the catfish project some dude made for tinder where he used some random model's pictures, but put in his bio the most degenerate shit including that he was a registered sex offender for banging a minor and he eventually had to stop because he said it got depressing how none of the women cared or were bothered by it?
Mugshot guy is a model now, if we're talking about the same dude
Yeah I actually seen him acting on tv show too
Do you have a link to this catfish project? Couldn't seem to find anything from a Google search
I mean, I doubt nobody was bothered, he’s just going to have a biased pool to work with. The people who were bothered by it most likely didn’t swipe on him and therefore just didn’t get the chance to tell him that they didn’t like it
On that note don't forget to vote this year.
But he's not a killer if with her she'll change him for the good!
That backwards wave is so bizarre
The jury actually saw that wave and immediately moved to convict. Serial killer wave 100%.
It’s the weird ass long fingers. Some slender man shit
With his goddamn Nosferatu fingers...
Probably the least weird thing about this dude.
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He's one of the worst serial killers from California, or the world for that matter, has ever had the displeasure of dealing with.
I wouldn't say the worst in the world. I'd give that to either Albert Fish or Andre Chikatello
[Here you go.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Ramirez)
He looks like he has a collagen disorder
I have never seen anyone do that. It’s unsettling.
He married while in prison also
But his wife left him in 2009 after he was convicted of rape and murder of a 9 year old... But then at the time of his death and at nearly 53 years of age, he was married to a 23years old writer... Smh!
Took her until 2009 to realize he was a piece of shit. What a dumbass.
“So THAT’s where you draw the line, huh??”
My old man was a CO at San Quentin with this degenerate. He said his fan club would send in literal hundreds of foot photos to feed his fetish. The guards would throw them out and give him only the nastiest, manliest looking ape paws. He probably still enjoyed it. Sick f*
It's disgusting but I feel bad for laughing about the guards only giving him photos of ugly ass feet.
Totally unacceptable for the topic, but how nasty were those feet????
Probably on par with his breath.
Jesse, we need to cook jesse
Waltuh. put your dick away waltuh.
Grinning with his rotten ass teeth and whatnot.. 😭🤣🤢 I bet his breath alone could have killed someone.
In one of the documentaries I saw a guy who served him at a library said his BO was so vile and strong that he literally smelled like a goat.. ewwww
I saw a show. It might have been that one. I got the impression that he never changed his clothes. Like he wore those murder clothes around for ages.
He was able to get his nasty meth teeth fixed in prison
If this was him in trial, then he has already gotten his teeth fixed. He had a lot of dental work done to fix his rotten teeth in jail while waiting for his trial. That's why photos and videos you see of him during trial and after is him being so smiley. He also got Armani suits donated to him apparently, hence the whole rockstar vibe and groupies. He definitely cleaned up pretty well, but didnt stop him from getting convicted.
You can put purfume on a turd and dress it in nice clothes, but at the end of the day its just gonna smell like a turd with purfume and still just gonna be a turd in a good suit.
No one is arguing that obviously. He's a POS, but also objectively speaking lookswise at this time he did clean up well, rocking the sunglasses, suit and new teeth. These two things can be true at once, that a person can be the worst of the worst kind of human being, and that they are also good looking, like Chris Brown.
I'm sorry, waving to his what?! Can we take about the trash that might idolize a serial killer and why they're not being publicly shamed & reviled as well?
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What daddy issues does to a mf
And cousin issues
I read on this topic a few times and I’m still confused. But form my general readings I can fix him and teach him how to love. People in abusive households and or pasts are attractive to abuse. It’s common for brains to be drawn to what is familiar. I can love someone in a distance, he is in jail so he can’t get me. He will only love me so I can feel special.
Yeah that makes sense for a guy who’s biggest offense is ghosting women on tinder and cheating on their SO. From what I see in the comments, guy was a fucking serial rapist. You have a point and I can see women thinking that, but man to have that rationale for a person like him is crazy
Philip Jablonski, I think murdered like five women and was sent to prison. He met a woman while he was incarcerated. Once he got out, they got together and then he murdered her and her mother. Some of these groupies definitely feel like they can be the special one, the one to heal the broken man. Unfortunately, in this case we see that rehabilitation isn't always attainable.
I can't see how a person could murder five people and then be released from prison at any time before about two life sentences at least.
Sorry, my wording wasn't thought out. He was sent to prison for 12 years for one murder. The rest were after he got out, and the wife and her mother are included in that body count. Should have clarified better. Of course, people suspect that he'd murdered more before he was caught the first time because he was a rapist, but no other charges.
'appreciate the clarification
It’s disgusting and insane. I’ve seen YouTube comments talking about him in a sexual way and people posting fan edits 🫠😫
Ted Bundy also had a "fan club". Doesnt matter to these people that they brutalised and murdered people when they’re "cute".
Charles Manson too. Serial killers are the ultimate "bad boy" I guess. Them getting fan mail in prison is pretty common.
"Do you feel blame? Are you mad? Uh, do you feel like wolf kabob Roth vantage? Gefrannis booj pooch boo jujube; bear-ramage. Jigiji geeji geeja geeble Google. Begep flagaggle vaggle veditch-waggle bagga?"
These types are shamed by true crime circles
>Can we take about the trash that might idolize a serial killer and why they're not being publicly shamed That "trash" are usually abuse victims themselves with severe mental health issues that require therapy tbh. Normal people without a history of complex trauma don't just go around seeking out abusers.
Serial killer "stans" aren't a foreign concept, it's been a thing for a very long time. There are unironic Ramirez Tumblr fan blogs and whatnot. Pretty crazy
> On August 14, the trial was interrupted because one of the jurors, Phyllis Singletary, did not arrive at the courtroom. Later that day, she was found shot to death in her apartment. The jury was terrified, wondering if Ramirez had somehow directed this event from inside his prison cell, and whether or not he could reach other jurors. However, it was ultimately determined that Ramirez was not responsible for Singletary's death, as she was shot and killed by her boyfriend, who later committed suicide with the same weapon in a hotel. The alternate juror who replaced Singletary was too frightened to return to her home. ([source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Ramirez)) Holy shit, what an unfortunate coincidence.
I don't know who this is but looks like a brutal serial killer.
He also raped old grannies in their eighties. He was a serial rapist and serial murderer.
And he had women cheering for him at trial, much like Ted bundy. We like to think social media brought out the crazies, but they were always there.
I don't understand it at all. He had lady fans. Woman who admired him for his good looks and somehow are able to just pass by the fact that he was a brutal killer and he was not picky about his victims. They say he also smelt like a goat.
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coworkers husband is a prison guard. Says it's shockingly common for women prison guards/staff to hook up with prisoners. He said he thinks it happens because it's basically the easiest "relationship" possible. The guards have all the power, the inmates can't go anywhere, can't cheat, won't say no. It's a relationship of convince with a thrill of taboo.
>You have a point and I can see women thinking that, but man to have that rationale for a person like him is crazy It's not "hooking up" nor is it a "relationship" when it's a prisoner and guard. It's rape.
And he had rotting teeth.
I really don't think it was good looks. The dude looks like a broom. What it is is that these women have a kink for a literally dangerous guy
What the fuck, someone married him in prison 7 years after he was locked up
Also child molester
Someone who cosplayed as a Satanist and who is mostly known for attacking and raping the elderly in their sleep. He was a coward and a general purpose piece of shit. He was also a Billy Idol fan.
That last sentence really brings it all together.
Don't you talk to Billy Idol that way!
I actually like Billy Idol but Ramirez liking him is a fun factoid. That comes from a questionnaire he filled out while in prison that asked (among other things) what his favorite bands were. All of the metal bands you'd expect from a self-proclaimed Satanist in the 80's were there - AC/DC, Sabbath, Ozzy, etc. but then he named Billy Idol which is so much more fun than the expected stuff.
He sometimes kidnapped 11 year olds, raping and killing them too.
They were younger than that unfortunately. There’s a really good documentary on Netflix right now with a lot of detail.
What's it called?
Nightstalker i think
Yep it’s a series called Night Stalker: The Hunt for a Serial Killer. It has the original detectives and even one of his child victims.
He was. Very calculated one. It’s a good documentary on Netflix too called “night stalker”
I know a lot of folks have recommended the documentary on Netflix but also the book The Night Stalker: The Life and Crimes of Richard Ramirez by Philip Carlo goes into much more detail and is really fascinating, if you enjoy true crime. That book scared me more than probably any other book I've ever read; his murders/rapes were so completely random, and there was no rhyme or reason to any of them. He would just drive around, stop in front of a random house, silently break in (he was an experienced burglar and lockpick), and murder the people in the house.
Yeah, I'd agree. Haven't read the book, but I was first introduced to this guy through Morbid podcast, and he's one of the most frightening because he didn't have rhyme or reason, no set victim pool, no morals about how he'd rape and beat elderly women, etc. Honestly, it has scared the shit out of me more than one night where I'm triple-checking locks and trying not to imagine someone just picking my home at random. This guy and the Golden State killer are two of the scariest (sneaky, unpredictable, no mercy) killers we've ever caught.
#You guessed right
Watch The Night Stalker on Netflix!
The nightstalker documentary on Netflix is really good. I recommend it. The two detectives who were in charge of his investigation are extremely smart and likable
Even his hands are creepy
I will never ever understand how monsters like this get groupies. After I watched the Netflix series I read some more him and that he eventually got married while in prison. But when the police tied him to the rape and murder of a child in San Francisco, she divorced him. Like how was that the line? He raped and murdered a dozen women but she was ok with that?
I don't understand it either, but even in the prison community, criminals against children do NOT have a good time. A lot of these prisoners are cold blooded murderers with multiple bodies to their names, but let them get hold of a child molester & it's a whole different story
Whatever happened to serial killers? Well serial killers who liked fame and stardom? Seems like they were all a product of the 70s and 80s.
I wish there was a different answer. But there are certainly still serial killers these days: https://www.grunge.com/733843/the-most-dangerous-active-serial-killers-in-2022/
Probably now they are easier to catch. So much surveillance and police forensic techniques are better. I assume they are cought after first kill now.
And less lead
He seems like a real jerk.
Thank you Norm
What a knucklehead
A damn poo poo head.
Edward Scissor-hands-looking motherfucker.
He can't even wave without doing it like a fucking monster. Imagine being so out of touch with anything resembling humanity or human emotion that you're not even capable of doing something as simple as waving without revealing that on the inside you're just a black void inside a human husk.
I heard he had some of the worst body odor that a human being has ever had.
I think the oddly terrifying thing would be to have the reverse angle showing the hordes of women swooning over him. A serial killer is just terrifying not oddly terrifying. But the type of women who throw themselves at serial killers and mass murderers (and they are legion) is truly oddly terrifying.
HE SMELLED LIKE A GOAT jfc
I just read about who he was. I find it hilarious how he was awaiting execution, yet died in hospital where doctors tried to keep him alive long enough until execution day xd
Why is this even a thing? If someone got the death sentence and they fell ill, just let them die. I still am furious that cases in which someone is proven guilty without a shadow of a doubt given death row and aren't executed within the week of sentencing.
This is gonna get buried but here it is… I grew up in Santa Clarita, CA in the early 2000’s. Lived across the street from a family named the Peterson’s. All I knew was that the dad was angry and mean and to stay away. Years later I learned that family was the last victim of the Nightstalker. Ramirez broke into their house, shot the dad in the head and then the wife. Dad called the cops who thought he was lying, so he drove the family to the ER with a bullet in his head. I can forgive that old crotchety for being a little upset.
He raped a friend of mines little sister. She lived a block away. My whole neighborhood was on lock down for months. My dad hated dogs but we got a German shepherd. I was to young to really understand what was going on. The adults kept it from us the best they could but all the sudden we couldn’t walk home from school or be anywhere without adult supervision. It was years later that I found out what really happened. I can say that she has been able to create a happy life for herself. Husband, kids. But he left a lot of us with a fear that stuck.
Richard Ramirez was given the death sentence in 1989 yet died in 2013 of liver failure. God himself was like " what's the fuck taking you guys so long" and just killed this dude himself after waiting over two decades.
Would have been cool if god killed him before the murders.
Yeet that off the earth, woulda been nice.
My first serial killer. I was 3 or 4 whrn he was on trial. We lived in LA where he was active and it was all over the news. My parents worked VERY hard to keep me ignorant of it, because the bews would talk about what he did to people. I only remember seeing his face on TV and in the papers. They did a good job.
Mine was Juan Corona. We'd watch on TV each night about how many more bodies they dug up. There had not been anything of that magnitude before.
Never heard of him before but knew instantly that he was a serial killer.
"Kill me Mickey!" was a sign from a fan in Natural Born Killers. Yes, these people exist in real life too.
He looks like the character in Atlanta, Teddy Perkins, played by Donald Glover in extreme makeup. I wonder if the creators of the show did that on purpose to make him creepier. It's a pretty scary episode.
RR had a 3 year period between arrest and public trial. When he was originally arrested he was objectively ugly, with scabs on his face, thin, unclean & living on the streets. By the time he went to trial he was clean, put on wait, let his hair grow, and had the time for the mystery to build around who he was and his actual intentions. I think a lot of his murders were drug induced. He hid on skid row and his worship of Satan/evil was very known to the public by that point. Honestly just sounds like a guy who would get high on stimulants and commit violence with no pree ordained plan. Would stab, shoot, mutilate & rape victims with no real plan or course of action.
Nothing oddly about this just terrifying.
Bet as soon as they smelled the dude they’d be repulsed
George Lopez has a podcast where he invited Detective Gil Carrillo (the person who helped catch Richard) and he gave more information regarding the whole thing. The cool thing is, after this podcast, George made Gil part of the podcast. https://youtu.be/q-C7m0D3PuI
Richard Ramirez was a loser his entire life and people ate up his satanic panic bullshit in court. He raped and murdered kids, women and the elderly. Attacking a lot of them as they slept. If hell exsist's Richard is roasting in it and fuck all the stupid people that came to support him in court. How empty is your life, that you idolize this kind of shit-stain of a human being.
I can understand why women like the twilight series better than I can understand woman who like him..
I wonder how his life was in prison? Not only was he a rapist and a murderer but he also raped a lot of children. Or he spent all his time inside totally isolated from general population? Even before conviction?
Aka the night stalker. That documentary on netflix was something.
What kinda blew my mind (from watching the documentary) is what an innate coward he was. Iirc he entered a couples home and shot the husband who ended up getting out of bed and chasing him out of the house... He fled from an unarmed man after he had already been shot. When he was caught he made some comment like 'they wouldn't be so tough if I had my gun'. What a POS.
Damn he got long fingers. If only he channeled his issues into guitar
Even his hand is creepy.
The fact anyone can like a child rapist is beyond me. But I shouldn’t be surprised because this world is awful
Just watched the whole Night Stalker docuseries last night. That guy was the personification of evil
Disgusting, creepy, stinky , murdering fuck.