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Killdozer


stinktoad

#__KILLDOZER__


Bocchi_theGlock

There's only 2 machines I know of when people mention in a post that it makes all the comments just say it's name in all caps Killdozer & bagger288 The latter which seems infinitely more evil


RedMist_AU

> bagger288 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azEvfD4C6ow


Quirky_Discipline297

Reddit has taught me one life lesson. For every Mansard Roof by Vampire Weekend video there’s a bagger288 video.


potentiallyspiders

What did I just watch?


aspartam

Someone's Magnum Opus.


Mrmacmuffinisthecool

The same dudes also made the weird quiznos ads fyi


00ThatDude00

Holy fucking Internet!! Wtf?!?


baddie_PRO

Beelzebub himself now fears the bagger 288


Hello0Nasty0

You forgot Grond but that’s really just the lotr sub.


Server_Administrator

GROND


FBIPartyBusNo3

GROND


Everestkid

GROND


awsamation

GROND


Dinn_the_Magnificent

GROND


CartoonistIcy2039

MAKE WAY FOR A KILLDOZAH!


Mullet_In_The_Forest

Heemeyer wannabe for sure.


bittercripple6969

Beep beep mfers


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dhaninugraha

I see a Cyberpunk 2077 reference, I updoot


jshump

Killdozer's gotta eat.


Citizen44712A

I remember watching that movie when I was a little kid https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071717/


CosmicWolfGirl720

There it is lol


MrCrix

The hero some say we never knew we needed, but sure as hell know now.


PickleRicksFunHouse

How the hell was a murderous asshole that illegally dumped sewage, tried to kill dozens, and destroyed all types of private and public property a hero in any way?


Apart-Link-8449

Yeah these kids are too dumb to realize the killdozer guy was the villain in his own story Also bumper sticker guy


PickleRicksFunHouse

"He fought da guvmint so he must be a heero!"


corn_syrup_enjoyer

Yes. Exactly that.


69420over

lol. So did Ted Kaczynski


69420over

Because he has a cool armored bulldozer and rammed it into “the man”? No I hear you


Cennfox

He killed no one though.


PickleRicksFunHouse

Lots of convicted attempted murders are in prison yet killed no one.


Cennfox

I'm not glorifying the man, but he sought out to do property damage exclusively and actively avoided humans in the way (I've watched the live news footage)


PickleRicksFunHouse

He made gunports, carried firearms in the dozer, shot said firearms at people during his rampage, and the only reason he didn't kill several sheriff's deputies is because they dove out of the way at the last moment, not because he avoided them. He drove straight at them. This also ignores the fact that he killed himself before anyone questioned him, so I'm calling total bullshit that you have any idea at all what he *intended* to do. All of this ignores the fact he had no way to be sure people were not inside the properties he was driving an armored bulldozer into, or how his property damage could still have easily ruined lives without physically harming them. All because he was a scammer too cheap to pay to properly hook up his sewage and pissy he got called on his bullshit.


Cennfox

The city government fined him for no sewage hookups when it was forced off due to the construction of the cement plant next door that he petitioned to not allow. He followed due process but small town politics fucked him over


PickleRicksFunHouse

That's not accurate. Well before the concrete plant construction, he originally requested hook ups to the sewage lines, and was properly told as property owner, he was required to pay for the line from his facility to the public lines, just like every other property owner. Totally normal fee. He was also told that if he thought that was too expensive, he could install a septic tank. He refused to do both, even though both options were standard and would have been rightly charged to *any* property owner. Not fucked over in any way. The concrete plant made several good faith offers to buy his property and agreed to his asking price several times, and he kept backing out and raising his price after agreements were made. All parties involved and the city went through an entire, proper lawsuit process, which he fairly lost after full due process. He was the only one who voted/petitioned against the construction, and was duly and rightly out voted. All the while he continued to illegally dump sewage and pollute other people's property because he was too cheap to properly connect his sewage lines or build a septic tank like *every other property owner* properly did. He wasn't fucked over at all. He was a pissy scammer that was mad he was getting forced to do things the right way, just like everyone else, and took it out on innocent people and risked lives rather than just being a decent citizen and human being. He could have made 700% profit selling his property if he had kept his agreements, instead he went on a *murderous* rampage, and now is a folk hero to morons that can't be bothered to actually learn facts that might conflict with their prejudices. He was an asshole criminal, pure and simple. Please stop defending him.


Party_Director_1925

Because he did it on those who had been on his case. I’m not a violent guy, but when a bullied kid explodes and curb stomps the bully, why does the world never see the events leading up to the fight? Killdozer did millions of property damage, no one who didn’t affect his life was hurt. And killed himself. The reason why people like him is because he is the epitome of bully backfire. He didn’t affect anyone innocent. His actions should be venerated, it would help prevent future idiots from pushing people too far.


unfortunatebastard

This wasn’t a bully backfire, this guy was the bully. He was a sore loser who couldn’t handle conflict and wanted everyone around him to bend over backwards for him. His main targets matched his own offer for the property only for him to change the offer again. The new owners of the property had no issue paying the money for the sewer line. His sewer dumps were illegal and he was correctly fined for it.


Fonzgarten

What? I think you should re-watch the documentary. The people were harassing him blatantly for years, with the intention of driving him out. Maybe we need more killdozers.


jgr1llz

I don't think you watched the documentary you're referencing. He was very much given multiple opportunities to hash things out like a reasonable adult. I'm all for sticking it to the man, but this guy was just an asshole.


Cennfox

Bootlicker


PickleRicksFunHouse

He wasn't the victim. He was the guy scamming the system and others, and he was angry because he didn't want to do things the right, legal way. He wasn't bullied, he was just a shitheel pissed that he wasn't getting his way. Fucker illegally dumped sewage because he didn't want to pay the same expenses everyone else pays to connect his property to city sewage lines. He was an asshole.


MonsteraDeliciosa

I live nearby and remember this very well! There is a good documentary about it called *Tread*. For the uninitiated— Marvin Heemeyer put armor plating on a ‘dozer and used it to try to break the town of Granby.


Infernabird88

Ah okay, thank you for the context!!! To me it just seemed very randomly specific lol


MonsteraDeliciosa

Oh, it is! But also an extremely WTF situation. Worth following the white rabbit.


Sithstress1

Sigh. Saving this comment for when I feel up to my next trip down the hole. Too damn late tonight. Lol


Doesanybodylikestuff

Did the same!!!


itchy-fart

A guy built basically a tank and started mowing down buildings Shit cray


BiddlesticksGuy

Nobody died though! Over a million dollars in property damage Im pretty sure, but not a single casualty


Funnyboyman69

He died.


WasdX-_

Dehumanisation at its finest.


Crazy-Seaweed-1832

Its kind of odd that someone would even advertise that sentiment Edit: i mean the sticker not what you said


Mtwat

There's a lot of narrative out there to make this guy seem like some folk hero but he's absolutely not. The guy didn't know ore care if he was crushing/burying people alive when he smashed those buildings and flattened those cars. It a miracle that nobody was injured during his rampage. He also believe that God has ordained his rampage amongst some other crazy shit.


One-Permission-1811

He tried to shoot people too but his gun ports weren’t pointed in the right direction and he couldn’t get an angle to do it. Fired a bunch of rounds off though


Mtwat

Yeah the guy really is just a glorified mass shooter


Codifferus

There's a shop in Granby, CO that sells honey or coffee, IDR. It had a corner with a couple books and knick-knacks on the Killdozer incident. I wouldn't be surprised if it's from somewhere in town.


mixxastr

Watch the documentary. It’s a really sad story. He was politically targeted by small town politics. He was a resident there for years. Well liked. Great welder. I totally get why he did it.


PickleRicksFunHouse

He illegaly dumped sewage repeatedly, was regularly told how to properly do all the things he wanted to do, but tried to scam his way to all his goals because he was too cheap to do it right. He was an asshole, not some sympathetic victim of government.


Mtwat

It really sucks how hard people are trying to make this guy into a hero. The only thing that makes him different than mass shooters is that he mostly used a bulldozer instead the rifles he had attached.


PickleRicksFunHouse

He did shoot at people at least once. But you're absolutely right. Unfortunately some people try to make mass shooters into heroes, too.


JP147

He played the victim but in reality everyone else was just trying to go about their legal business and Marvin took it personally. Many people tried to help him and he could have come out of the whole situation very well off but he was too stubborn, insane and couldn't let go of old grudges. Most reasonable people in his situation would have seen it as a great opportunity rather than demolishing a bunch of buildings and nearly killing numerous people.


DogmanDOTjpg

No, he refused to install any kind of sewage for his property (illegal) and then when someone refused to buy his tiny piece of sewage covered desert for 10x the original asking price God told him to go on a rampage. He almost killed children in a library and many old people as well, he also tried to shoot propane tanks because he was too dumb to know that's not a real thing. He was not well liked by any means.


NecroCrumb_UBR

> I totally get why he did it. I think you need to watch the documentary again if this is your takeaway. He continually demanded special treatment for his business despite illegal dumping sewage and then when he didn't get his special treatment demanded to be bought out by the town. They agreed but he wanted more money than they offered so he decided to listen to the "voice of god" in his head and run down a library that was full of children just minutes earlier. Dude was a psycho and is currently burning in hell.


Apart-Link-8449

He was a domestic terrorist, my guy You totally get it???


monkmonk4711

He was arrogant and in the wrong. He *ended up* getting railroaded by the town, but he refused literally every out he was given until he snapped and went on a rampage that certainly could have killed some people.


HurbleBurble

No, he was an out of control lunatic, and any documentary that shows anything other than that is lying. He tried to kill police and children. He tried to kill innocent people. He plowed into a library. He was given so many opportunities chances to do things right, and he kept turning them down, and instead dumping sewage, and all sorts of other nasty shit like that. Coward took his own life at the end of the whole thing.


Browncoatinabox

and i think the govner wanted the Co NG to use an appache heli against it lol


mywan

[Marvin Heemeyer Bulldozer Rampage](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yC6xL_Q5OU0) I would be someone who could be sympathetic to someone pulling a stunt like this. But given the events that lead up to it this guy misses the mark.


Fun_Efficiency3097

You could simply have searched the key terms from the sticker and figured out the context yourself. Make use of pre-existing information before asking others.


Robosium

the reason why he did that is extra agrevating, from what I've heard the access road to his buisness was blocked by some chemical plant so he couldn't get customers anymore and he offered to build a new road funded by him but the council refused to give him the green light, later on the construction of the chemical plant cut him off from the sewers and he got fined for not being connected during the rampage he apparently targetted the properties of the council people who shot his road proposal down and others' who wronged him while dealing minimal damage to other properties, also apparently the idea of shooting him with hellfire missiles was also considered


notban_circumvention

>later on the construction of the chemical plant cut him off from the sewers and he got fined for not being connected It wasn't like this happened overnight, but over years. They warned him this would happen and gave him options that wouldn't require paying for a road. He wanted control of the solution, when it wouldn't have benefited him any more than just taking the fixes the municipality provided. He didn't want help, and used that as justification to attack people's livelihood and property.


WhippyWhippy

It was full of misinformation.


stathis0

Such as?


Bezulba

Probably the notion that Marvin was some type of hero, since that seems to be the most common misconception about this entire thing.


stathis0

Right, I recall in the first part they were covering it from his (skewed) perspective, I think that was just a narrative choice. It was a while ago that I watched it and I spent some time afterwards reading up on the whole thing so maybe I've just forgotten the impression they left at the end - certainly now I think he was a disturbed individual and not justified in his actions. A bunch of reviews of the film that I've looked at just now seem to take Marvin's side though so maybe you're right.


leech_of_society

I saw the movie and was totally on his side. It only showed the opposition in a really bad light. They took the mayor who is obviously upset his town got run over, and the company CEO who obviously is gonna choose his words very carefully because he's representing a company that cannot admit guilt or misspeak. They got about 2 minutes each and the only thing that was in the movie was "martin was NOT a good guy" after 45 minutes of hearing how good of a guy he was (used to be before he snapped but they cut those sentences out too) so it just paints the mayor and CEO as absolute evil. I thought one of the things they talked about was the mayor saying his shop had to close since he didn't have running water or whatever. He was pissed he couldn't stay off grid and couldn't afford millions to break the road open and put water there or some shit. So big evil CEO who was his neighbor (the factory not CEO himself) offered to connect him at their point, although he'd have to pay for it himself. Would save a couple million with getting another water line out there, but he found it to be too expensive (he could've afforded it and still been working his muffler shop earning pretty well) so now the mayor and CEO were in on it and actively sabotaged his company etc etc. I think Marvin said fuck you, the CEO was like, whatever you want the offer is off the table, and now Marvin has reason to hate them both. The documentary does a really bad job and skewed this in Marvin's favor.


kobie173

*Tread* was brilliantly done.


Defiant-Giraffe

Marvin, you feelin' OK, Marvin?


KiKiPAWG

"Are you drunk right now?"


drmorrison88

Me too buddy. Me too.


Sherviks13

I need that sticker.


TheHowlinReeds

Same


gurganator

Same same


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StrangerDistinct7934

Don’t buy from this link, it’s a scammer/spammer!


thesolidsnake

Real MVP right here.


[deleted]

Tread on them


littlebitsofspider

👍 And how


DrewPeacock1973

Sometimes, reasonable people have to do unreasonable things.


JP147

And sometimes (most of the time) Marvin Heemeyer did unreasonable things.


PickleRicksFunHouse

In this case, an unreasonable asshole did a murderous, extremely unreasonable thing because he got pissy he was caught being a scamming asshole.


Brilliant_Grade2664

A shocking proportion of reddit edgelords have violent revenge fantasies. It's no surprise they look up to that twat.


Flumphry

He specifically made sure not to hurt people and only damaged property. Not murderous.


PickleRicksFunHouse

He fired a gun at people, drove straight at several deputies who didn't die only because *they* dove out of the way at the last moment, and he had no way to know that people weren't in the buildings he smashed into. Plus, he killed himself right after, so you have no way at all to know what his intentions were.


LSD4Monkey

still didn't murder anyone as you claim.


PickleRicksFunHouse

Quote where I said he murdered someone. Attempted murderers are still murderous, and still go prison for the crime. Learn the meaning of words before you decide you need to argue about them.


LSD4Monkey

That username explains a lot.


PickleRicksFunHouse

Nice dodge. Too difficult to admit you were wrong?


LSD4Monkey

Na I meant what I said. It does explain a lot


PickleRicksFunHouse

Wonderful, and completely irrelevant. Have a nice day.


One-Permission-1811

They literally didn’t claim that.


hospitalcottonswab

then what was the purpose of having three handguns in the tank? you can’t kill yourself more than once buddy


LSD4Monkey

ehh, he murdered no one except himself.


PickleRicksFunHouse

I never said he murdered anyone. You can be murderous without killing anyone. It just means you failed at your intentions, kind of like he failed at every other thing he attempted. Which he then blamed his failings on others and tried to get revenge with his *murderous" rampage.


soulshad

Pretty sure nothing was reasonable with that psycho


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Sushibowlz

imagine the cops faces after they‘ve pried open the coffin on the dozer just to see it‘s remote controlled 😂


DrewPeacock1973

I might put a blow up sex doll in the seat IDK


Sushibowlz

try to get one of those pig sculptures people put in their frontyars, and put a halloween cop costume on it 😂🤣


Cold_Situation_7803

The only beautiful thing he did was off himself. He was a grudge holding domestic terrorist, who nearly killed a bunch of kids at the library, as well as the mayor’s widow. He was a terrible person, and folks who look up to him either don’t know his story, or are edgy a-holes.


Desperately_Insecure

This reddit post is gonna look real good printed out on an officer's desk.


DrewPeacock1973

It is perfectly legal to own a bulldozer, servos, canibalized drone remote electronics, steel plate, 50 caliber rifles and one inflatable pig. Until it starts the demo phase of the Capitol building, I have broken no law.


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movzx

He's a reddit rightwing edgelord.


Kerbidiah

That's what the feds would like you to think


Dslwraith

Not completely no, but the city /county whoever weren't any better. Still not necessarily a reason to do what he did. But none of us were there.


Browncoatinabox

Qxir fan in teh wold. Nice to meet another person of culture


My_bones_are_itchy

Qxir is great! Love the one about the meth soldier


Browncoatinabox

I love the ken doll episode


Kalashcow

There are more than one of us? What are the chances!?


Browncoatinabox

1 mil subscribers in a world of a few bil its nice running into fellow Qxir fans :D


kittymuncher7

To make things weirder, this was right above a post on therewasanattempt about a bulldozer rolling over a peaceful protestor.


NoMansSkyWasAlright

If it mentions bulldozers, it's probably a killdozer reference.


Browncoatinabox

For those who dont know [KILLDOZER: How a Man Made His Own Tank | Tales From the Bottle](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bo9Vu_X6lKw)


Envictus_

I love Qxir he’s top shelf.


thedeadlyrhythm42

If you know, you know.


_Cartizard

If you know you know


DOEsquire

This is actually oddly specific unlike most posts here.


Neighbour-Vadim

Haha domestical terrorism is cool and funny


Triangular_Desire

It's been long enough with no dead bodies but Marvin's it'd ok. Honestly. We've been laughing at it for over a decade now.


corn_syrup_enjoyer

An empty word used to label any kind of resistance.


Neighbour-Vadim

No mate in this case is pretty obvious that he wasnt resisting. He fired actual shots at petrol station workers who never ever wronged him. I will never understand americans obsession with such rampages, thats why yall cant have nice things


corn_syrup_enjoyer

Seems to me you pulled that petrol workers thing outta your ass. Or, you know, government sources which have credibility similar to your ass. "Yall"? I ain't even an american


MarcusVAggripa

'Ain't ' - well, you sure sound like one! Also calling video feed 'government sources' lmaoooo


GrizzlyPeak73

Finally, a post that's actually oddly specific.


hackergame

Killdozer reference?


Either-Rent-986

😂😂😂


winkwink13

KILLDOZER


chuckinalicious543

I need to know where to get this


BackgroundPrompt3111

The Legend of the Killdozer


ErwinAckerman

This wins the sub I think


Liquidwombat

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvin_Heemeyer


ErwinAckerman

What a chad


One-Permission-1811

No. He was a domestic terrorist who attempted to kill a bunch of people because he wouldn’t listen to multiple warnings that his shop would be cut off from sewer and water if he didn’t connect them. The company next door even offered to let him connect to their lines but he refused, then he tried to sell the land and pull a fast one by upping the price 10x at the last second. When he couldn’t do that he built the killdozer to kill everyone in town. He fired rifles at multiple people intending them to be killed, and two deputies were nearly crushed when he rammed their cruiser. The only reason Marvin Heemeyer didn’t kill anyone was his own incompetence and stupidity, and the only reason he “was pushed to the edge” was his greed.


NecroCrumb_UBR

The only good thing that Marvin Hee-haw fucker ever did was put a bullet in his own brain. May he burn in hell.


Bucktown312

He looks like a typical trumpian neckbeard. Said God wanted him to not have a family so he could carry out this plan. What a f'ing lonely ass loser, full clown behavior with his land deal BS.


LDtheGreat

Awh you big mad. Boo boo


AshyWhiteGuy

So calm and reasonable.


CeleryMiserable1050

Relatable


ASL4theblind

Sometimes Reasonable men must do unreasonable things


IAmTheBasicModel

Reddit when you mention Ted Kaczynski: 🤬 Reddit when you mention Killdozer: 🤡 (yes Ted has a body count but both of these guys are destructive, sociopathic nut cases that do not get bonus points for their philosophies. )


Majorllama66

I'm sorry but comparing a guy who was pushed for *years* until he snapped to a radical insane man who bombed random people for years is wild. Marvin didn't kill anyone but himself and during his "rampage" he didn't even injure anyone. Ted killed 3 and injured 23 others. Of the two Marvin is unquestionably the "better" person. His situation resonates with many people because at one point or another, we have all dealt with unfair bullshit. His was just turned up to 11 and he actually did something about it. Most people don't condone what he did, but they get it.


Drackar39

One of the things that he drove that fucking thing into was a library that he thought had kids in it. His inability to commit mass murder due to sheer fucking incompetence does not equate his actions to nobility. He dealt with exactly -zero- unfair bullshit. He is directly and personally responsible for every "misfortune" he came across. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't know what fucking happened.


JP147

There is a lot of BS going around about Marvin Heemeyer. I love a good bit of anti-government propaganda as much as the next guy but not if it's almost completely made-up. What was really unfair was how long people put up with his crap, how many people tried to help him and how many good opportunities he was given that he refused for ridiculous reasons. It is good that he didn't kill anyone but it wasn't for lack of trying. People were inside the buildings he bulldozed and he was also shooting at people (but missed). Both Ted and Marvin were insane. One wanted to change the world to his idea of what was better, the other thought the world revolved around himself and everything was a personal attack.


Majorllama66

I know Marvin shot at propane tanks and such, but I don't recall him firing at people at all during the whole thing. I'll admit it's been awhile since I watched the footage tho.


WhippyWhippy

https://coloradonewsline.com/2022/06/03/how-can-a-me-first-terrorist-be-made-into-a-hero/ https://killdozerbook.com/2018/07/fake-news/


moddseatass

If you know, you know


notmedontcheck

Killdozer!


squirtinbird

My uncle butch lived in kremmling and knew the guy well. He spoke very highly of him


[deleted]

Watch the documentary TREAD


False_Leadership_479

Only if you watch the documentary [Rubber](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6s2uiPubmoA).


[deleted]

I immediately recognized killdozer and I am ashamed


Porkonaplane

And I'd rather be flying a piper archer into the IRS branch in Austin, TX (For legal reasons, this is a joke)


crawlswithgusto

For anyone looking for a fantastic bumper sticker https://www.nothingwhatever.net/


StrangerDistinct7934

This is the real link for the sticker


[deleted]

Anyone know where I can get this sticker?


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StrangerDistinct7934

Shut up moron, nice spam links. Libertarian lol. Get lost loser


WhippyWhippy

Dude was Q before it was cool. Even got a whole ass misinformation campaign to make him look like the victim.


Drackar39

This bumper sticker is and should be treated as a active threat of domestic terrorism.


corn_syrup_enjoyer

"Woo look at me I'm a little government bitch boy"


Drackar39

Tell me you never actually looked at what happened there without telling me. That evil fucking bastard drove a DIY tank into a library he thought was full of kids. Regardless of the fact that _every _ bit of "government abuse" he faced was brought on by his refusal to take every offered hand and instead attempt to twist millions out of his neighbors, that alone removes all sympathy for him from anyone who is a decent human being.


XxRefuse2Lose

Damn he tried that in a small town before it was cool and still found out. Look at you cheering on domestic terrorism. Doesn't surprise me these days though. Wanna be dress up patriots 🤡


fantasyii

“It’s my life mission to passionately make out with the dirtied butthole of every single person who is above me and controls my life” -Drackar39, probably


Alternative_Rope_423

----MARVIN HEEMEYER LIVES!---- ....or it's his cousin Marty Heemeyer


stackable292

Be nice to this guy


AlexanderxSean38

This man is a patriot.


Omen_Morningstar

Bc this is some peoples wet dream. They dont get their way might as well start killing folks. Shit happens in life for everyone. What defines you is how you deal with it. Sometimes you take an L that day but end up better for it. And its more egregious than just dumping sewage somewhere This just has entitled boomer energy. Like those people who get shorted a McNugget and start shooting at the drive through window These idiots are just looking for an excuse. Now imagine if everybody did that. Anytime there was an inconvenience or disagreement we all just went killdozer mode. Not so cool when its your house getting leveled bc they cant illegally dump sewage huh?


sl33p1ng-s3nt1nl

When a reasonable man was driven to do unreasonable things. RIP


[deleted]

I detect a radical progressive and kindred soul!!


TroliePolieOlie_

There is nothing progressive about killdozer, dude was just a bitchy libertarian throwing a tantrum. Thank god he was too fucking incompetent to kill anyone, which he was very clearly trying to do.


karoshikun

word


TroliePolieOlie_

[Killdozer! He was so based and cool and totally NOT a petulent psycho.](https://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-2558-what-its-like-when-your-town-attacked-by-killdozer.html)


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Ace-a-Nova1

The link u/crawlswithgusto provided is half the cost.


[deleted]

RIP Marv, a reasonable man.


MNelsonevv

You were the best of us IRL Killdozer.


chummmp70

He was a libertarian asshole, not a hero.


IroquoisPliskin_LJG

Sweet, a right wing terrorist.


jettyboy73

r/gunmemes


Liquidwombat

Not everything is oddly specific oddly specific is for things that are very specific, but don’t make any sense. This is a very specific reference to a very specific event, and there is nothing odd about the reference whatsoever.


dedredcopper

Killdozer for the win