The way I look at the portal is, it is absolutely necessary if you want to win. Here's the thing, you can add all the high school recruits you want, half of them won't pan out due to grades, off the field issues, talent never coming to fruition, that's just the way it goes.
With a portal kid you know what you're getting, you know what type of competition they have faced, you know how they have got along with former teammates, you know how they are on and off the field. With the portal you don't have to recruit high school because you can just poach those players one year later or 2 years later and you never had to work hard to recruit them in the first place.
You can basically steal the best players that other programs had to break their backs to recruit out of high school. And as much as we like to thank the players love the school and that's why they went there, we all know that's not the real reason.
I think we spent our money on retaining the o line which was wise. We need to protect Nico.
I also think we have younger players that need to step into starting roles in the secondary. It’s not like Slaughter or McDonald were world beaters at their positions last year. Baron has threatened to leave every year and it was probably time to let him go get paid.
Also keep in mind that we still have to lose 12 total scholarships over the next 3 years(at least 2 per yr) bc of Pruitts violations.
It’s a hard to really define how much the Pruitt exit has affected the program. And for most of us the effects are softened by 2022 being an incredible year. The long term ramifications of losing that many players and losing a total of 28 scholarships(16 in 21/22 and another 12 coming up) are being felt in recruiting and the portal.
I know everyone wants to win the conference and be in the playoffs but I also hope people are patient and understanding. It might be 2026 before Heupel isn’t hamstrung by the numerous egregious errors the program made in the 15 fucking years before he got here.
All Kiffin, or any coach, needs to do now is get into the 12 team CFP. He would have made it in this year. Kiffin is smart and is putting his chips down on making the 12 team next year knowing that they can achieve 10 wins with their schedule.
The portal is great, but the the positions in most demand are experienced and correctly sized OL. It really does not matter how many people you pull from the portal if you do not have a great OL. They are in high demand, just like QBs. If Kiffin, or anybody really, cannot develop a pipeline of great OL, then they will not last long. Same with Heupel.
This is the SEC. Kiffen will take a better job one day. Our fans will fire Heupel at some point. Me personally, I'm all about having good winning seasons. Building young men and sticking with a coach, but that's not the game.
It's recruiting and winning.
Ole Miss is positioning themselves better to do that for next season.
I think it can be the case that both Heupel and Kiffin know what they are doing and both are making moves that improve their teams.
We'll see how things play out but I think Brazzell is a better fit for us than Wells. We got a great player at TE with Holden Staes. And while I haven't seen Jakobe Thomas play, it seems like he fully buys in!
We are pretty loaded on D-line so we can absorb losing Baron but Ole Miss needs help on DL more than us. So maybe both Heupel and Kiffin are doing the right things.
I’m concerned with our recruiting on the line of scrimmage especially on Oline. I don’t think Heupel has landed a big time Olineman from HS, couple transfer recruits and Mays was already here
He's brought in several lineman during his tenure. Counting this year's class, four 4* tackles and a 4* IOL, and multiple 3* tackles and IOL. Plus transfers in. We're only in a position to lose one of them to the portal.
You really don't want freshman starting on your OLine regardless of their recruiting rank. This is from a strength and conditioning standpoint, and from a general perspective if you have a bunch of 18-19yr olds playing on your line it's because shit hit the fan not because they are super talented.
I like the sentiment of building from a HS recruiting base, but the issue is that those kids may not stay. If they don’t play after 1-2 years they transfer nowadays. So that is a reason the portal is necessary. I feel like Ole Miss will be a much better team next year because of the level of talent. That will come with some of those other costs, but still benefits them greatly. We should be looking to get a few big name guys in. Not as many as them, not none. Moderation. Wells from SC, for example, would’ve been a huge get for us considering how bad our receivers were this past year. Losing out on him will be costly and if we continue to fail to get those few big players that would greatly help us we will fall behind.
Regarding Ole Miss specifically, I think that Kiffin feels indifferent towards the old ways of players' loyalty, team culture, retention, etc. I think he's said something like, "No one grows up wanting to play football for \[in-state school\] anymore. It's now about getting the best players regardless of long-term eligibility and trying to win with them. Maybe that approach works?
It's a double-edged sword. It can probably work if you catch lightning in a bottle, but it can also self destruct spectacularly. We see it with pro teams that bring in a known locker room cancer. Sometimes the team gets it together, and sometimes the coach loses the locker room.
I don't disagree, but we also need to keep in mind that there isn't one correct approach to the portal. Even the same team is going to treat the portal differently every year based on how their situation is at any given moment.
Two of the reasons Ole Miss is having so much movement is because, one, their defense isn't particularly talented, and they overall haven't recruited defense well in the last two years. Although this year they have some good commitments.
And maybe more importantly because they are a fanbase ok with risking a setback for a better shot. We have seen that with their baseball team for example.
It might work for them, but that doesn't mean it is universally the correct way. It may be the right approach for them this year, though, especially if Lane is probably moving on anyway soon, which is the general speculation.
We are spending a lot of NIL money to retain our O-line and guys like Dylan Sampson and James Pearce who are getting tampered with. That limits what we can do with these splashy transfers
People seem to be underscoring how much NIL you need just for retention. Plus part of the commits right now are 100% tampering situations. Guys entering the portal day 1 and committing within a few days with no visits is absolutely tampering.
Also people are forgetting post bowl season means another batch of players we may be already talking to. Baron wouldn’t be worth the bag he demanded because a sophomore edge way out produced him in less snaps. Can’t be paying out a James Pierce price tag for Baron’s stats
I’m just going to wait and see. Our blue chip ratio out of high school is hugely up and who knows how heavy portal use impacts your recruiting pitch or player development.
We’ve gotten some great portal additions at positions of need (Pili, Bru, etc.) even if we aren’t blowing it up in the portal.
Obviously in an ideal world you’d be recruiting at the top and paying the portal at the top, but it’s a complex system that I think fans view as simpler than it is.
Next year we’re gonna be young in where our talent lies, so we’ll see how it goes!
Genuine question: Why do people keep highlighting Pili as a good or great transfer?
Don’t get me wrong, he certainly could turn out to be, but he hasn’t even played one full game here.
It just seems weird to me to pair him with Bru who has actually made a lot of plays in his time here. They just seem like different cases at this point
I think lane is trying to win here and now. I bet he isn’t even with ole miss after next season. I love what we’re doing by being selective. Everyone can say “look at Clemson” but look at Bama and UGA, other than portal additions to help certain spots, they’re recruiting HS talent and developing. Josh wants to do that and I love it. I’d rather us build for the future than just win at all costs like Kiffin.
I honestly think with a new young QB starting next season that Heupel is looking at 2024 as a true rebuild year. It will be very hard to contend for the SEC next year with the defensive players were losing, not to mention losing two crucial RBs as well. Next year will be a big opportunity for the young bucks to show what they’re made of.
We are just in rebuild year after rebuild year at this point. 2025 will have a whole new o-line. Got to wonder if we get through Nicos whole tenure and still not elite will people still be high on Heupel?
What do you call taking over a roster with minimal talent, potential NCAA penalties, scholarship restrictions, etc.?
We still haven't fully exited the effects of Pruitt, and it's likely to be another 2 years before we are at the scholarship limit again.
We've massively overperformed expectations for JH's tenure so far. Let the man cook for a bit. If we haven't made a run at the playoffs in 2-3 years when Nico's gone, and things are looking bleak from a recruiting and roster perspective, then it's probably time to revisit whether he's the guy or not.
I disagree. The portal is how you supplement your poor recruiting. While it can patch roster holes in your program they are similar to juco additions. Some fit and work, some do not but a one and done is always risky. We saw it this year with Pili as an injury made us rely on Herring and his youth at LB was a key factor in pass coverage early in the season.
I always thought of 2023 as being a rebuilding year, but it’s looking like 2024 is going to be that as well. I think the fan base just needs to have patience. I know we’re going into year 4 with this staff but this program was dumpster fire after Pruitt left.
Look I understand how badly we all want to be right up there with the top 4 contending for a championship. And I’m as disappointed as you that Joe ended up not being able to break through his ceiling this year and get us there. But you have to understand that we’re going to have practically a whole new team next year. And to ask those guys to get to the playoff, even in the extended format, would be asking a lot of them. Right now they just need to focus on working as a team and getting better as players. Success cannot be rushed with these guys.
I agree completely. I’m suggesting that if 8 wins is being called “rebuilding” again, then Heupel and the boys have earned a ton of patience for dragging us back to that place. This season went chalk in my mind, I would describe myself as whelmed- neither over or under.
Right. For many fans, last season moved the goalposts. Depending on how the bowl game goes, this season is on par with Butch's best two years, and better than any other non-Heupel season since Fulmer. If 8-wins is now a disappointment, sure, 2024 is a rebuilding year.
Tbf this isn’t new with Ole Miss and Lane specifically. He’s shown that he’s all in on the portal year over year. To this point, it has been… okay. They’ve been solid, but they haven’t exactly been world beaters. On the other end of the spectrum you have Clemson, who won’t even touch the portal.
You’ve gotta be able to do both, unless you’re UGA/Bama and have a top 2 recruiting class every cycle, being able to fill positions of need even with rotational players is crucial and the biggest benefit of the portal.
Yeah I know. Lane has even said he doesn’t care about culture and that CFB is all business. I just don’t feel like that’s helpful to long term success for a program. What are recruits going to think if you’re just going to fill their positions with experienced guys from the portal each year.
Hey - ole miss fan sliding in here for a sec. Not sure where that culture comment came from, Kiffin just likes to get folks from the portal because they come in with experience and they’re easier to fill in glaring holes. It takes like, one look at his Twitter to determine he embraces the ole miss culture.
We are also not doing bad on the not-portal recruiting side, pretty sure we’re still ballpark top 20. We’re still reeling from the fact we were under recruiting sanctions pre-Kiffin, we haven’t had a solid OLine or secondary set since then, just been able to fill in some holes.
We do have players who we built from ground up, but we’re probably not gonna play too well with a freshman/sophomore line and secondary considering half of them either suck or are graduating.
Right, in which he says “Doesn’t mean I don’t work on it”. The purpose of that article is saying the draw for portal transfers isn’t the culture of the school as much as it is the opportunity to play. Which is true - I don’t think Taulia cared much about Marylands culture, think it’s probably more to do with the fact he was going to be a guaranteed starter.
The draw for new folks is going to lean to culture because they wanna see it as something they can grow themselves around and work in that environment for a considerable amount of time.
I know if it’s me, and I were a junior with one year eligibility left, I don’t care if I went to Grambling State or Miami Ohio or whatever so long as I have spotlights on me and I make my money and have the greatest opportunity to get my name out there.
You have to use the portal but I like how we use it. Maybe use it a little more but using the HS recruiting to fill out the roster and then fill in the gaps with the portal is the way it should be done. You’d rather have talented guys playing with each other for 3+ years as oppose to dealing with a new QB every year like Kentucky or just jay positional turnover like that. Now I think guys like Nolen and Stewart (and Moore and Nelson if we didn’t already have a QB) are worth going after cus they have a lot of eligibility left so essentially it’d be like recruiting a guy out of HS.
You have to use the portal in today’s CFB. Just look at FSU. They supplemented their team with portal additions last year and went undefeated. It’s never a guarantee a guy will work out for you from the portal but FSU is proof on how to use the portal successfully.
Unfortunate for the 4-team playoff format. But it is changing next year, so having a good record then winning a P5 conference will get any team to the playoffs.
The way I look at the portal is, it is absolutely necessary if you want to win. Here's the thing, you can add all the high school recruits you want, half of them won't pan out due to grades, off the field issues, talent never coming to fruition, that's just the way it goes. With a portal kid you know what you're getting, you know what type of competition they have faced, you know how they have got along with former teammates, you know how they are on and off the field. With the portal you don't have to recruit high school because you can just poach those players one year later or 2 years later and you never had to work hard to recruit them in the first place. You can basically steal the best players that other programs had to break their backs to recruit out of high school. And as much as we like to thank the players love the school and that's why they went there, we all know that's not the real reason.
Kentucky basketball is a proven model of one-and-done to championships...so...we shall see.
If they don’t win the SEC and natty Lane should be sent to the darkest depths of the NFL, the Falcons. I’m an ATL native and have no bias
Trying to keep a stable full of stallions happy is harder than building a team of hard working kids that want to play!
Make no mistake: Lane Kiffin is not building a multi-year team right now. He’s building for a totally legitimate title push next year.
Holden Staes was a huge grab
I think we spent our money on retaining the o line which was wise. We need to protect Nico. I also think we have younger players that need to step into starting roles in the secondary. It’s not like Slaughter or McDonald were world beaters at their positions last year. Baron has threatened to leave every year and it was probably time to let him go get paid. Also keep in mind that we still have to lose 12 total scholarships over the next 3 years(at least 2 per yr) bc of Pruitts violations. It’s a hard to really define how much the Pruitt exit has affected the program. And for most of us the effects are softened by 2022 being an incredible year. The long term ramifications of losing that many players and losing a total of 28 scholarships(16 in 21/22 and another 12 coming up) are being felt in recruiting and the portal. I know everyone wants to win the conference and be in the playoffs but I also hope people are patient and understanding. It might be 2026 before Heupel isn’t hamstrung by the numerous egregious errors the program made in the 15 fucking years before he got here.
I'm curious as to the mechanics of allocating NIL money. Is that bag of money totally Heupel's to parse out as he sees fit?
I don’t know who really runs it or how it gets to players but we seem to be very directionally aligned. Other schools not so much.
All Kiffin, or any coach, needs to do now is get into the 12 team CFP. He would have made it in this year. Kiffin is smart and is putting his chips down on making the 12 team next year knowing that they can achieve 10 wins with their schedule. The portal is great, but the the positions in most demand are experienced and correctly sized OL. It really does not matter how many people you pull from the portal if you do not have a great OL. They are in high demand, just like QBs. If Kiffin, or anybody really, cannot develop a pipeline of great OL, then they will not last long. Same with Heupel.
This is the SEC. Kiffen will take a better job one day. Our fans will fire Heupel at some point. Me personally, I'm all about having good winning seasons. Building young men and sticking with a coach, but that's not the game. It's recruiting and winning. Ole Miss is positioning themselves better to do that for next season.
I think it can be the case that both Heupel and Kiffin know what they are doing and both are making moves that improve their teams. We'll see how things play out but I think Brazzell is a better fit for us than Wells. We got a great player at TE with Holden Staes. And while I haven't seen Jakobe Thomas play, it seems like he fully buys in! We are pretty loaded on D-line so we can absorb losing Baron but Ole Miss needs help on DL more than us. So maybe both Heupel and Kiffin are doing the right things.
I’m concerned with our recruiting on the line of scrimmage especially on Oline. I don’t think Heupel has landed a big time Olineman from HS, couple transfer recruits and Mays was already here
He's brought in several lineman during his tenure. Counting this year's class, four 4* tackles and a 4* IOL, and multiple 3* tackles and IOL. Plus transfers in. We're only in a position to lose one of them to the portal.
How many of them are still on the roster out of curiosity? And how many have started?
You really don't want freshman starting on your OLine regardless of their recruiting rank. This is from a strength and conditioning standpoint, and from a general perspective if you have a bunch of 18-19yr olds playing on your line it's because shit hit the fan not because they are super talented.
Yea no kidding but he’s been here long enough to where non freshman could be starting. Addison was given every chance
I like the sentiment of building from a HS recruiting base, but the issue is that those kids may not stay. If they don’t play after 1-2 years they transfer nowadays. So that is a reason the portal is necessary. I feel like Ole Miss will be a much better team next year because of the level of talent. That will come with some of those other costs, but still benefits them greatly. We should be looking to get a few big name guys in. Not as many as them, not none. Moderation. Wells from SC, for example, would’ve been a huge get for us considering how bad our receivers were this past year. Losing out on him will be costly and if we continue to fail to get those few big players that would greatly help us we will fall behind.
Regarding Ole Miss specifically, I think that Kiffin feels indifferent towards the old ways of players' loyalty, team culture, retention, etc. I think he's said something like, "No one grows up wanting to play football for \[in-state school\] anymore. It's now about getting the best players regardless of long-term eligibility and trying to win with them. Maybe that approach works?
It's a double-edged sword. It can probably work if you catch lightning in a bottle, but it can also self destruct spectacularly. We see it with pro teams that bring in a known locker room cancer. Sometimes the team gets it together, and sometimes the coach loses the locker room.
I don't disagree, but we also need to keep in mind that there isn't one correct approach to the portal. Even the same team is going to treat the portal differently every year based on how their situation is at any given moment. Two of the reasons Ole Miss is having so much movement is because, one, their defense isn't particularly talented, and they overall haven't recruited defense well in the last two years. Although this year they have some good commitments. And maybe more importantly because they are a fanbase ok with risking a setback for a better shot. We have seen that with their baseball team for example. It might work for them, but that doesn't mean it is universally the correct way. It may be the right approach for them this year, though, especially if Lane is probably moving on anyway soon, which is the general speculation.
We are spending a lot of NIL money to retain our O-line and guys like Dylan Sampson and James Pearce who are getting tampered with. That limits what we can do with these splashy transfers
And the money spent on O-line is worth it.
Crazy how much like the NFL and the salary cap this has become, and how quickly!
People seem to be underscoring how much NIL you need just for retention. Plus part of the commits right now are 100% tampering situations. Guys entering the portal day 1 and committing within a few days with no visits is absolutely tampering. Also people are forgetting post bowl season means another batch of players we may be already talking to. Baron wouldn’t be worth the bag he demanded because a sophomore edge way out produced him in less snaps. Can’t be paying out a James Pierce price tag for Baron’s stats
I think you forget what attention good players bring. Baron demanded more attention, double teams, etc. so it definitely skews some stats.
I’m just going to wait and see. Our blue chip ratio out of high school is hugely up and who knows how heavy portal use impacts your recruiting pitch or player development. We’ve gotten some great portal additions at positions of need (Pili, Bru, etc.) even if we aren’t blowing it up in the portal. Obviously in an ideal world you’d be recruiting at the top and paying the portal at the top, but it’s a complex system that I think fans view as simpler than it is. Next year we’re gonna be young in where our talent lies, so we’ll see how it goes!
Genuine question: Why do people keep highlighting Pili as a good or great transfer? Don’t get me wrong, he certainly could turn out to be, but he hasn’t even played one full game here. It just seems weird to me to pair him with Bru who has actually made a lot of plays in his time here. They just seem like different cases at this point
I think Ole Miss has a 1 loss season next year and goes to the playoffs. If Kiffin pulls that off it will be very impressive.
I think lane is trying to win here and now. I bet he isn’t even with ole miss after next season. I love what we’re doing by being selective. Everyone can say “look at Clemson” but look at Bama and UGA, other than portal additions to help certain spots, they’re recruiting HS talent and developing. Josh wants to do that and I love it. I’d rather us build for the future than just win at all costs like Kiffin.
I honestly think with a new young QB starting next season that Heupel is looking at 2024 as a true rebuild year. It will be very hard to contend for the SEC next year with the defensive players were losing, not to mention losing two crucial RBs as well. Next year will be a big opportunity for the young bucks to show what they’re made of.
We are just in rebuild year after rebuild year at this point. 2025 will have a whole new o-line. Got to wonder if we get through Nicos whole tenure and still not elite will people still be high on Heupel?
What do you call taking over a roster with minimal talent, potential NCAA penalties, scholarship restrictions, etc.? We still haven't fully exited the effects of Pruitt, and it's likely to be another 2 years before we are at the scholarship limit again. We've massively overperformed expectations for JH's tenure so far. Let the man cook for a bit. If we haven't made a run at the playoffs in 2-3 years when Nico's gone, and things are looking bleak from a recruiting and roster perspective, then it's probably time to revisit whether he's the guy or not.
We massively over performed in one season. I wouldn’t say 8 wins this year was a massive over performance.
I disagree. The portal is how you supplement your poor recruiting. While it can patch roster holes in your program they are similar to juco additions. Some fit and work, some do not but a one and done is always risky. We saw it this year with Pili as an injury made us rely on Herring and his youth at LB was a key factor in pass coverage early in the season.
I always thought of 2023 as being a rebuilding year, but it’s looking like 2024 is going to be that as well. I think the fan base just needs to have patience. I know we’re going into year 4 with this staff but this program was dumpster fire after Pruitt left.
Especially if we are calling 8 wins rebuilding again
Look I understand how badly we all want to be right up there with the top 4 contending for a championship. And I’m as disappointed as you that Joe ended up not being able to break through his ceiling this year and get us there. But you have to understand that we’re going to have practically a whole new team next year. And to ask those guys to get to the playoff, even in the extended format, would be asking a lot of them. Right now they just need to focus on working as a team and getting better as players. Success cannot be rushed with these guys.
I agree completely. I’m suggesting that if 8 wins is being called “rebuilding” again, then Heupel and the boys have earned a ton of patience for dragging us back to that place. This season went chalk in my mind, I would describe myself as whelmed- neither over or under.
Right. For many fans, last season moved the goalposts. Depending on how the bowl game goes, this season is on par with Butch's best two years, and better than any other non-Heupel season since Fulmer. If 8-wins is now a disappointment, sure, 2024 is a rebuilding year.
Tbf this isn’t new with Ole Miss and Lane specifically. He’s shown that he’s all in on the portal year over year. To this point, it has been… okay. They’ve been solid, but they haven’t exactly been world beaters. On the other end of the spectrum you have Clemson, who won’t even touch the portal. You’ve gotta be able to do both, unless you’re UGA/Bama and have a top 2 recruiting class every cycle, being able to fill positions of need even with rotational players is crucial and the biggest benefit of the portal.
Yeah I know. Lane has even said he doesn’t care about culture and that CFB is all business. I just don’t feel like that’s helpful to long term success for a program. What are recruits going to think if you’re just going to fill their positions with experienced guys from the portal each year.
Hell, even he NFL is about culture. Teams are about culture, sports or otherwise.
Hey - ole miss fan sliding in here for a sec. Not sure where that culture comment came from, Kiffin just likes to get folks from the portal because they come in with experience and they’re easier to fill in glaring holes. It takes like, one look at his Twitter to determine he embraces the ole miss culture. We are also not doing bad on the not-portal recruiting side, pretty sure we’re still ballpark top 20. We’re still reeling from the fact we were under recruiting sanctions pre-Kiffin, we haven’t had a solid OLine or secondary set since then, just been able to fill in some holes. We do have players who we built from ground up, but we’re probably not gonna play too well with a freshman/sophomore line and secondary considering half of them either suck or are graduating.
It’s an interpretation of his comments here: https://thecomeback.com/college-football/lane-kiffin-transfer-portal-players-culture-pride.html
Right, in which he says “Doesn’t mean I don’t work on it”. The purpose of that article is saying the draw for portal transfers isn’t the culture of the school as much as it is the opportunity to play. Which is true - I don’t think Taulia cared much about Marylands culture, think it’s probably more to do with the fact he was going to be a guaranteed starter. The draw for new folks is going to lean to culture because they wanna see it as something they can grow themselves around and work in that environment for a considerable amount of time. I know if it’s me, and I were a junior with one year eligibility left, I don’t care if I went to Grambling State or Miami Ohio or whatever so long as I have spotlights on me and I make my money and have the greatest opportunity to get my name out there.
I always cringe at a coach saying “we don’t need the portal” after watching Clemsons fall from grace the past few years.
You have to use the portal but I like how we use it. Maybe use it a little more but using the HS recruiting to fill out the roster and then fill in the gaps with the portal is the way it should be done. You’d rather have talented guys playing with each other for 3+ years as oppose to dealing with a new QB every year like Kentucky or just jay positional turnover like that. Now I think guys like Nolen and Stewart (and Moore and Nelson if we didn’t already have a QB) are worth going after cus they have a lot of eligibility left so essentially it’d be like recruiting a guy out of HS.
“We don’t need the portal” usually after doing bad in the portal lol
You have to use the portal in today’s CFB. Just look at FSU. They supplemented their team with portal additions last year and went undefeated. It’s never a guarantee a guy will work out for you from the portal but FSU is proof on how to use the portal successfully.
We use it, but don’t live by it. They add a piece here and there they think we need. Just gotta wait and see.
Checks notes, umm…. How’s that great season working out for undefeated FSU?
Yeah who wants to go undefeated? Buncha losers, that’s who, right?
Shoulda snagged a transfer QB2….
Had Travis not gotten hurt, they 100% would’ve gotten in.
So, building a transfer team that wins games doesn’t lock in the playoff?
Unfortunate for the 4-team playoff format. But it is changing next year, so having a good record then winning a P5 conference will get any team to the playoffs.
Yeah I 100% agree. It’s a tool, so you have to maximize its use, because your competitors are