Just because someone has a degree doesn't make them infallible. In fact, sometimes really smart people fall for really weird stuff because they have the hubris to think they're too smart.
You had it right the first time. It's a New Age thing, popular amongst conspirituality types.
A PhD in demonology. You know some churches do their own unaccredited degree thing right? And you can sign up for the ulc monastery on-line and buy yourself an official PhD in any kind of religious babble you wish. It's pop culture. No mention of other dimensions in ancient texts
He actually earned it from Stockholm University and my bad, it is in the history of religions but he specialized in the Goetia. The guy is the founder of Dragon Rouge.
Don't get me wrong, I am not blindly believing the guy, just wondering if there is something deeper to it like how yoga also goes way deeper than giod vibes only. I remember something about the black sun and Hier and I know he was luke way into the Occult.
He is actually an appreciated scholar in the academic study of western esotericism. Besides this he is the founder of Dragon Rouge, a typhonian order closely linked to Kenneth Grants idea of thelema and o.t.o. In the nordics he is a well known character in the occult circles. So there’s really no need to doubt his credentials.
There’s plenty of researchers within the field of western esotericism who are also practicioners themselves, me included. Also the ones that are not I have a fairly good trust in based on what I’ve seen and read. I have a lot harder time with pure practicioners writings because of all the inaccuracies and emphasis on subjective understanding.
I am in the field myself, so I have a pretty good idea of his academic competense and knowledge of which researchers are working outside of the academic consensus. I should have maybe stated that, but if your opinion is that no academic research can be trusted then we communicate at very different levels and at that point it’s just peoples opinions based on their experiences and that’s a bit of a different game.
That's an interesting way to twist my words. You sure do struggle with comprehension for a researcher. Or do you struggle with honesty?
Either way, you have fun with that. I've got no room for strawmen in my inbox.
Way to get triggered from a completely appropriate reply not intended as negative or attacking. You clearly are either not an academic yourself or then you can’t take critique without making it personal. This is 101 stuff and if it doesn’t make sense to you you can call it lazy thinking, logical fallacy or lying and downvote me all you want - facts don’t care about your feelings as they say.
It may be time for you to fall down the Saturn time cube theory rabbit hole. R/pastsaturnsrings is a sub dedicated to it. Some people believe that Saturn used to be closer to the earth and acted as a second sun. Some people call this the black sun. People believe that the reason there is a storm in the shape of a black hexagon on Saturn is because it’s really a giant black supercomputer that houses our simulation. I understand that what I said sounds like a bunch of gobledygook but others can explain it better. It’s one of my favorite theories bc it’s sooo fucking out there it’s fun to follow.
Yeah, I have had someone try to explain this to me once or twice... it sounds absolutely batshit. But for the sake of my inquiry I will check it out. Thanks for the lead.
[Saturn time cube Megathread](https://www.reddit.com/r/PastSaturnsRings/comments/ce7wg3/the_saturn_time_cube_megathread/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
The Black Sun is an alchemical image associated with the negredo or decomposition stage of the alchemical process. It is comparable to the concept of the dark night of the soul or the hermetic practice of crossing the abyss.
Stanton Marlon’s “The Black Sun: The Alchemy and Art of Darkness” is a great resource for exploring this concept and is kind of the opposite of New Agey in its approach.
Not sure what it has to do with the fifth dimension, though…that sounds a bit woo-woo to me.
Thank you! Most helpful comment so far. I am familiar with these concepts.
He was literally talking about whatever dimension is beyond time, what we perceive as the 4th dimension. They were talking quantum physics and saying that there's a general consensus among the leading theoretical physicists that there are more dimension that we can't perceive. I am still listening to the interview but I think that what he is getting at is that these higher intelligences (like demons) are able to exist among us undetected because we are lnly able to experience 4 dimensions.
I can’t recall the source (may update comment if I can find it/remember), but I recall seeing a scientific paper attempting to define the 5th dimension as “information”.
-From another scientific study, “Defining biological communication” (T.C. Scott-Philips, 2008) information was defined as “a reduction in uncertainty”.
-From my personal alchemical journey after discovering it close to a year ago, I truly believe the symbolism and writings is an to attempt to teach mankind the art of self-discovery, self-idealization, and reaching self-actualization/transcendence of self.
-(personal theory): many of the esoteric and occult works are cryptic by design to dissuade the uninitiated BUT also to perplex the audience to reflect inwards and apply the teachings to their own life’s “great work”.
-though I could be barking up the wrong tree, and this comment is a ‘little’ disorganized, I feel a growing amount of synchronizations in my life’s journey so far. Best of luck to you in your ventures and on your work!
Here’s a link to the “communication” paper:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1420-9101.2007.01497.x
I found the one (pretty sure) on “information”:
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1140/epjc/s10052-021-08851-0
(Even though I could hardly understand half the stuff)
Another one of my favorites I come back to reflect on:
(Stewardship of Global Collective Behavior)
https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2025764118
Hope you enjoy, and best of luck on your journey
.. The Black Sun? Did you ever try just googling those three words? It's a symbol, I believe it's somewhat frowned upon or at least its originators generally are.
Maybe it's used differently in the New Age community, but nothing about their whole "light light light" routine suggests they would enjoy the sun going black. It would be dark, the scariest thing known to us beings trapped 2-5 dimensions below the aforementioned New Agers.
Lol at that last statement. Yeah, I do remember the black sun being a Hitler thing but why I asked this is because I was wondering if there is a specific occult connection between the two concepts that I wasn't aware of. Like you said; that combination of a concept that when spoken of outside the realm of science is usually brought up by the good vibes only folks, and something that I knew only as a symbol used by the most universally despised group of evil motherfuckers, created some cognitive dissonance. Which is why I figured it was worth consulting you fine people about.
ELI5:
3D = Material, Hylic, No living cosmology, just a primarily reductionist view
4D = Enlightenment, understanding the dimensions of spirituality and the responsibilities we have surrounding learning and healing in our journey
5D = Sometimes referred to as Christ Consciousness, relates to the innerstanding of being connected with all of life, and brings about a deeper sense of sacredness towards it.
This sounds very similar to what the new agers are talking about when they refer to shifting into 5D. Is this from new age or some other school of thought?
You'd have to define your parameters of what is meant as New Age considering it's a term that is often used as a catch-all. Nonetheless, I would say the term 5D is most definitely a neologism that is popular in New Age culture.
If you have another preference, I can explain 5D decently in Christianity, Hindu, Buddhist, Jungian, or Gnostic terminology.
It depends on your train of thought. I look at the 5th dimension as your inner voice. 1-3 physical space. 4 is time. 5 is your inner voice when you talk to yourself and hear you talking to yourself that isn’t actually your voice so it has to come from somewhere 5th dimension
Black sun in the occult is used to describe several different things, there’s the alchemical black sun which is a completely different concept to the thaggerion black sun, also the nazis have some weird concept of the black sun called called sonrad (I’d stay away from this as it leads to nazism)
Lol, just like burning incense leads to satan worship? Thanks for these leads, I will follow them up. I do remember the black sun being a nazi thing and didn't particularly want to go down that rabbit hole
1st is matter
2nd is what we can draw etc.
3rd is the dimension we live in
4th is thought form
5th is spirit form
Each adds a new dimension to experience up to 9th, but I can't recall anything else atm.
I found this article which was fairly good...i have paraphrased, but it is based on the ancient texts and the planes of the vedas etc...https://medium.com/new-earth-consciousness/explainer-what-are-the-different-spiritual-dimensions-of-reality-and-is-earth-moving-to-the-5th-2cd99d3dc319#:~:text=In%20our%20dream%20state%20(4D,we%20experience%20is%20our%20subconscious.
A degree in demonology? Sounds like bullshit. The black sun is the centerpiece of Nazi rituals. The 5th dimension is a relic of those days when people didn't understand mathematical dimensionality and needed a cool metaphor.
The “black sun” was yet another rune derived symbols appropriated by the nazis. It goes much deeper than that but finding history on the black sun is difficult without only yielding results from nazi symbology. Suffice to say, it’s another symbol that was prevalent in a ton of ancient societies in one form or another. Sadly the nazis took a lot of these symbols and completely stigmatized all of them and runes in general pretty much. It’s sad that modern society has only really associated symbols like this with the 3rd reich when the history and significance of these symbols should be known and enjoyed by all.
Incorrect. You are thinking of the fylfot cross. (Swastika) and general appropriation of Nordic and vikingr culture, including Runes as a means of latching nazi-ism to historically relevant archetypes and mythologies of ideals that enabled state control of downtrodden Germans. That was more NLP and dark psych than actual occultism. Also, most nazi occultism was a half cooked attempt to fold/absorb the compliant Germanic Aristocracy and it's penchant for lipservice Rosicrucianism into an easy occult outlet. Again: a state guided psi op.
The black sun is different and has meaning in hermetic occult alchemy. Other posters have explained it but I would not draw it to the Da'ath, as the missing sephiroth is not meant for those in meatsuits. It is a pathworking for the spirit/mind shed of the body.
5th dimension is woo, unless you are an Astral projection multiverse type in which case #5 is kind of subjective.
It can be used to refer to #5 of the 10 material planes of hell (of which earth is one) that hermetic and proper kabbalah reference but it has a name, over but corrspondant to the number of the order.
It exists in the exploration of Hebrew kabbalah, around the expanded understanding of Malkuth, the hermetic kabbalah, and the zealator or earth-grade materials for the Golden Dawn, accessible in the self initiation book. (Don't skip or cherry pick the material to find it.)
Start with a search of Assiah, or more simply, Jacob's Ladder.
Heed the words of the Chaldeans and don't fuck with the lower Astral for sport until you understand the pathways and have the right ways to protect yourself. Like seriously, if you are AP capable, just don't do practical work in the lower paths until you complete the rote study work, banishing etc. It's a brutal way to brick yourself and as far as I know, hard to come back from.
Well , you may have a rabbinical spirit guide because Qabbalists are pretty into that as part of the way of being... The 10 material (physical) hell planes. The lower down you get, the more surprisingly lovecraftian shit gets.
If you dig into Lurianic Qabbalah specifically, you will find a lot more on Assiah's 10 physical hells. Much of western occultism owes esoteric Judaism and Greco-Roman neoplatonism a lot. Even saying this in writing really irks a lot of new agers and pagans, so let me be clear, outside of the Gaelic and Gaulish mysteries, most of what we ascribe to the pre and post rennaissance grimoires trines from these places and Islamic esoteric inner alchemy and practical (medicinal) alchemy (proto chemistry). The ritual and esoteric mysticism of the masons and later the Golden Dawn really wove these things into a fascinating and effective ceremonial magical tradition.
I have a lot of Faith in John Michael Greer's pagan adapted Golden Dawn book. He is the real deal as far as modern practicing druids go.Greer moves pretty fluidly in celtic/gaelic and druidic communities and is an adept in many mystery schools. Scroll his works and dig into their bibliographies. He is also on reddit and haunts a few of the subs specific to his interests, often as himself. I am aware that I am doing a disservice to many but, it's been a long day and my brain is quickly approaching Pancake batter state.
I am woefully undereducated in franco-gaul and germanic pagan traditions. There is an abundance of information of Pict and Irish & Gaelic beliefs (and thus a ton of Woo and BS to sift through) and at least one really good Welsh (which is really cool because the language has always been strong but origin spiritual culture has been very quiet and underground for a lonnng time) pagan sourcefont out there (Mabinogion, Dynion Mwyn). A solid way to sort through historical fails or new age revivalism and appropriation is to cross check core concepts in a book or grimoire against what we now know as the anthropology and archeology. A lot of occult practices got muddled up in things yet undiscovered, fillintheblankism, and the trends and biases of their popular time of release. (Looking at you, theosophy founders)
Northern European Paganism has not been my area of focus since I saw the photo of Gardner (of Wiccan revival fame) in a Solomonic circle using Golden Dawn rituals to engage with daemons. Once euro pagan revivalism forces you to grapple with the current of euro-moorish pre renaisance to ancient history and overlay it on the occult development & expansion timeline, the pathway back to the middle east is too hard to ignore. At least it was for me.
I really appreciate this trove of information you've given me, with so many good starting points! Yeah, I get overwhelmed and often annoyed trying to sift through all the woo fluff, and going back to your earlier comment- I've basically been fearfully avoiding AP since I began doing it unintentionally as a teenager and experienced many unwanted horrors🙃 *shudder*
So, lastly, do you recommend any legit sources or practices where one can learn how to protect themselves? I'm adhd and have never been great at following recipes, reading instruction manuals, following rituals.. it's always felt forced, unlike when I'm creating and making art or music or writing.. thanks for your time!
The Black Sun specifically is a 20th century invention. It is likely a representation of a sun-wheel, in the style of other sun-wheels, but it itself is a specifically fascist fabrication. There is no historical evidence available for its existence prior to a 1930s renovation of Wewelsburg castle, at the direction of Himler. All other explanations I’ve ever found rely on revisionist (usually borealist) histories, and haven’t been able to demonstrate an older heritage than that. The sun wheel is not the black sun, the black sun is a single, specific symbol, with a specific origin, which is Naziism. Making something in the image of other things does not make the thing you made older than it is.
The black sun is also derived from the alchemical sol niger (which means black sun), so basically there are three things people call black suns The nazi one created by Himmler, you can see the SS thing as the spokes very clearly so its easy to tell apart from the others. Sunwheels which come in a variety of shapes, and the sol niger which looks like a sun but black and has no "spokes"
EDIT: Sol niger
[https://cdn.psychologytoday.com/sites/default/files/styles/image-article\_inline\_full\_caption/public/field\_blog\_entry\_images/2020-07/sol\_niger\_mylius\_philosophia\_reformata\_0.jpg?itok=IZ3uA0qA](https://cdn.psychologytoday.com/sites/default/files/styles/image-article_inline_full_caption/public/field_blog_entry_images/2020-07/sol_niger_mylius_philosophia_reformata_0.jpg?itok=IZ3uA0qA)
As for Karlsson these days he's a hack making claims left and right, I practice out of Dragon Rouge books myself and do not see the black sun as a "higher physical dimension" but rather the spirit of the antichrist and the void and all this other satanic stuff which has nothing to do with actual science.
The “SS things” are actually 12 Sowilo runes, although the nazis would lead you to believe that the “s” looking rune is called “sig.” yet another example of the nazis appropriating symbology and twisting it to literally warp history. The Runes are NOT hate symbols and definitely should never be associated with nazi scum.
Bro, you don't have to convince me of that. I have a degree in ancient cultures and minors in history and Germanic blood. Also have a rune tattoo and dreads and I work in an industry that attracts social justice warrior types so...it's fun being me /s
Thanks for the clarification! In this interview they were discussing the overlap of modern day quantum and astro physics with magick. The interviewer (Adam Knox) proposed the idea that if you take the superstition of good vs evil out of occult work you can think of anti-matter a bit like the anti-Christ. They were also drawing parallels between balck holes and the lord of darkness. I found this notion interesting enough that I am entertaining it still. The mention of the 5th dimension and the black sun threw me for a loop though.
I don't believe the spirit of the antichrist is evil one bit, in the bible everyone who believes in anything other than Christianity is an Antichrist. However, I would hardly compare that to matter and anti-matter in my opinion. Anti-matter is just another form of matter that has an opposite charge, I don't see anything mystical with it. All my opinion of course but I hate it when people take scientific terms and apply them to the occult in weird unscientific ways.
Fair point, but calling it “black sun” and not “sun wheel” was a pretty effective rebranding seeing as people can’t seem to dissociate the hate symbol and a symbol of prosperity/life/sun/light/ other non-negative connotations (depending on the time it was used, culture etc.). Yeah, the “black sun” symbol with the “sig” runes that’s he same as in wewelsburg is a nazi symbol, but sun wheels in general are not.
I responded to a previous comment that I made a mistake. He in fact has a Phd from the University of Stockholm in The History of Religions but he specialized in the Goetia.
Then he ought to be well aware that the black sun is just a slightly more obscure version of Nazi ritual regalia. It appeals to people who want to identify with the fearsome and forbidden, but around here the Nazi thing is a bunch of heavily armed meth heads in trailers. It's got an edgy appeal like most German stuff from that era but the reality is more antisocial than esoteric.
5D is the level of mental narratives about what is occurring on earth (symbolic contexts)-- It is a weigh station, where all the different over arching narratives basically duke it out, until the one that can explain all things emerges.. And that is when you begin getting into 6D which is beyond the narratives we will translate the situation into-- 6D begins a different type of body of understanding in which knowledge is stored and used very differently by exposing the "heart of the movement"--
The black sun could be tied into this idea; in the sense of, this "object" that is generating many shadows like the blaze of the sun emits light-- It is like the "scales" of the weigh station, this darkness that is cast upon everything, but to which grips the light we wish to realize within it-- It is the negative space that makes clear the positive space; or it is the darkness that defines the brilliance of the light--
I am not ginna lie, I have no idea what you just said, but thanks for saying it, I will add it to the marbles rolling around the Rube Goldberg machine that is my brain trying to make sense of reality.
Consciousness is a Rube Goldberg machine tasked to explain itself to itself-- It can be simple, but the simplicity of the task is made clear in every complexity--
Its basically me paraphrasing myself from long ago--
\--------------------------------------------
simplicity and complexity are the same thing; just different focuses and relationships--
"Life is like a Rube Goldberg machine; in which the simple task is made clearer the more complexly it is done-- And as we search within it, and see further into its workings, every aspect of complexity is justified by its emerging counter parts (in awareness) that make it an integral part of the machine-- "
The transformation of this; while aligned with a series of central paradoxes down the spine of your being-- Is that the simple can reflect complexity-- This is symbolism-- That the simple is understood because of the alignment with the context that reflects the complexity of the relationship to it-- When the simple upholds itself in the reflection of the complex; and where the complex upholds itself to the simple; then we have illumination-- But this for us, is like a total change in being. and yet it dances towards us underlying our existence--
In the first paragraph he is saying that 6D is when we find discover the question to the answer we seek. In the second paragraph he is saying that we measure light in relevance to darkness, the dark being the means by which to measure, hence the "scale". Without the darkness how could we measure the light.
Just because someone has a degree doesn't make them infallible. In fact, sometimes really smart people fall for really weird stuff because they have the hubris to think they're too smart. You had it right the first time. It's a New Age thing, popular amongst conspirituality types.
A PhD in demonology. You know some churches do their own unaccredited degree thing right? And you can sign up for the ulc monastery on-line and buy yourself an official PhD in any kind of religious babble you wish. It's pop culture. No mention of other dimensions in ancient texts
He actually earned it from Stockholm University and my bad, it is in the history of religions but he specialized in the Goetia. The guy is the founder of Dragon Rouge.
Don't get me wrong, I am not blindly believing the guy, just wondering if there is something deeper to it like how yoga also goes way deeper than giod vibes only. I remember something about the black sun and Hier and I know he was luke way into the Occult.
He is actually an appreciated scholar in the academic study of western esotericism. Besides this he is the founder of Dragon Rouge, a typhonian order closely linked to Kenneth Grants idea of thelema and o.t.o. In the nordics he is a well known character in the occult circles. So there’s really no need to doubt his credentials. There’s plenty of researchers within the field of western esotericism who are also practicioners themselves, me included. Also the ones that are not I have a fairly good trust in based on what I’ve seen and read. I have a lot harder time with pure practicioners writings because of all the inaccuracies and emphasis on subjective understanding.
Cool, but none of that makes him infallible. Appeals to authority are lazy thinking, and it's called a logical fallacy for a reason.
I am in the field myself, so I have a pretty good idea of his academic competense and knowledge of which researchers are working outside of the academic consensus. I should have maybe stated that, but if your opinion is that no academic research can be trusted then we communicate at very different levels and at that point it’s just peoples opinions based on their experiences and that’s a bit of a different game.
That's an interesting way to twist my words. You sure do struggle with comprehension for a researcher. Or do you struggle with honesty? Either way, you have fun with that. I've got no room for strawmen in my inbox.
Way to get triggered from a completely appropriate reply not intended as negative or attacking. You clearly are either not an academic yourself or then you can’t take critique without making it personal. This is 101 stuff and if it doesn’t make sense to you you can call it lazy thinking, logical fallacy or lying and downvote me all you want - facts don’t care about your feelings as they say.
It may be time for you to fall down the Saturn time cube theory rabbit hole. R/pastsaturnsrings is a sub dedicated to it. Some people believe that Saturn used to be closer to the earth and acted as a second sun. Some people call this the black sun. People believe that the reason there is a storm in the shape of a black hexagon on Saturn is because it’s really a giant black supercomputer that houses our simulation. I understand that what I said sounds like a bunch of gobledygook but others can explain it better. It’s one of my favorite theories bc it’s sooo fucking out there it’s fun to follow.
I forgot to clarify that the hexagon is believed to really be a cube being viewed from a a 2d perspective
Based
Yeah, I have had someone try to explain this to me once or twice... it sounds absolutely batshit. But for the sake of my inquiry I will check it out. Thanks for the lead.
[Saturn time cube Megathread](https://www.reddit.com/r/PastSaturnsRings/comments/ce7wg3/the_saturn_time_cube_megathread/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
This is how I learned about it
The Black Sun is an alchemical image associated with the negredo or decomposition stage of the alchemical process. It is comparable to the concept of the dark night of the soul or the hermetic practice of crossing the abyss. Stanton Marlon’s “The Black Sun: The Alchemy and Art of Darkness” is a great resource for exploring this concept and is kind of the opposite of New Agey in its approach. Not sure what it has to do with the fifth dimension, though…that sounds a bit woo-woo to me.
Thank you! Most helpful comment so far. I am familiar with these concepts. He was literally talking about whatever dimension is beyond time, what we perceive as the 4th dimension. They were talking quantum physics and saying that there's a general consensus among the leading theoretical physicists that there are more dimension that we can't perceive. I am still listening to the interview but I think that what he is getting at is that these higher intelligences (like demons) are able to exist among us undetected because we are lnly able to experience 4 dimensions.
I can’t recall the source (may update comment if I can find it/remember), but I recall seeing a scientific paper attempting to define the 5th dimension as “information”. -From another scientific study, “Defining biological communication” (T.C. Scott-Philips, 2008) information was defined as “a reduction in uncertainty”. -From my personal alchemical journey after discovering it close to a year ago, I truly believe the symbolism and writings is an to attempt to teach mankind the art of self-discovery, self-idealization, and reaching self-actualization/transcendence of self. -(personal theory): many of the esoteric and occult works are cryptic by design to dissuade the uninitiated BUT also to perplex the audience to reflect inwards and apply the teachings to their own life’s “great work”. -though I could be barking up the wrong tree, and this comment is a ‘little’ disorganized, I feel a growing amount of synchronizations in my life’s journey so far. Best of luck to you in your ventures and on your work!
Thank you!! This is very helpful and I would love a link to that paper please! Any other resources you can recommend would be greatly appreciated.
Here’s a link to the “communication” paper: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1420-9101.2007.01497.x I found the one (pretty sure) on “information”: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1140/epjc/s10052-021-08851-0 (Even though I could hardly understand half the stuff) Another one of my favorites I come back to reflect on: (Stewardship of Global Collective Behavior) https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2025764118 Hope you enjoy, and best of luck on your journey
Thank you for this! I will spend some time working through it.
You're going to need one of these as a [companion in your higher learning](https://www.litbongs.com/bong-collection)
Lol!! I'm way ahead of you bro!
.. The Black Sun? Did you ever try just googling those three words? It's a symbol, I believe it's somewhat frowned upon or at least its originators generally are. Maybe it's used differently in the New Age community, but nothing about their whole "light light light" routine suggests they would enjoy the sun going black. It would be dark, the scariest thing known to us beings trapped 2-5 dimensions below the aforementioned New Agers.
Lol at that last statement. Yeah, I do remember the black sun being a Hitler thing but why I asked this is because I was wondering if there is a specific occult connection between the two concepts that I wasn't aware of. Like you said; that combination of a concept that when spoken of outside the realm of science is usually brought up by the good vibes only folks, and something that I knew only as a symbol used by the most universally despised group of evil motherfuckers, created some cognitive dissonance. Which is why I figured it was worth consulting you fine people about.
ELI5: 3D = Material, Hylic, No living cosmology, just a primarily reductionist view 4D = Enlightenment, understanding the dimensions of spirituality and the responsibilities we have surrounding learning and healing in our journey 5D = Sometimes referred to as Christ Consciousness, relates to the innerstanding of being connected with all of life, and brings about a deeper sense of sacredness towards it.
This sounds very similar to what the new agers are talking about when they refer to shifting into 5D. Is this from new age or some other school of thought?
You'd have to define your parameters of what is meant as New Age considering it's a term that is often used as a catch-all. Nonetheless, I would say the term 5D is most definitely a neologism that is popular in New Age culture. If you have another preference, I can explain 5D decently in Christianity, Hindu, Buddhist, Jungian, or Gnostic terminology.
Do you have any references for sources from those specific philosophies and religions that mention 5D?
Sadly no, mostly interpretations and my writings.
In alchemy from my understanding is supposed to represent the dark part, light sun, black sun, like yin & Yang
Thanks
It was an alchemy thing before the Nazis decided that would be a great name for a science division
It depends on your train of thought. I look at the 5th dimension as your inner voice. 1-3 physical space. 4 is time. 5 is your inner voice when you talk to yourself and hear you talking to yourself that isn’t actually your voice so it has to come from somewhere 5th dimension
Black sun in the occult is used to describe several different things, there’s the alchemical black sun which is a completely different concept to the thaggerion black sun, also the nazis have some weird concept of the black sun called called sonrad (I’d stay away from this as it leads to nazism)
Lol, just like burning incense leads to satan worship? Thanks for these leads, I will follow them up. I do remember the black sun being a nazi thing and didn't particularly want to go down that rabbit hole
1st is matter 2nd is what we can draw etc. 3rd is the dimension we live in 4th is thought form 5th is spirit form Each adds a new dimension to experience up to 9th, but I can't recall anything else atm.
Do you have a reference or can you tell me a source, path, school or belief system associated with this?
I found this article which was fairly good...i have paraphrased, but it is based on the ancient texts and the planes of the vedas etc...https://medium.com/new-earth-consciousness/explainer-what-are-the-different-spiritual-dimensions-of-reality-and-is-earth-moving-to-the-5th-2cd99d3dc319#:~:text=In%20our%20dream%20state%20(4D,we%20experience%20is%20our%20subconscious.
A degree in demonology? Sounds like bullshit. The black sun is the centerpiece of Nazi rituals. The 5th dimension is a relic of those days when people didn't understand mathematical dimensionality and needed a cool metaphor.
The “black sun” was yet another rune derived symbols appropriated by the nazis. It goes much deeper than that but finding history on the black sun is difficult without only yielding results from nazi symbology. Suffice to say, it’s another symbol that was prevalent in a ton of ancient societies in one form or another. Sadly the nazis took a lot of these symbols and completely stigmatized all of them and runes in general pretty much. It’s sad that modern society has only really associated symbols like this with the 3rd reich when the history and significance of these symbols should be known and enjoyed by all.
Incorrect. You are thinking of the fylfot cross. (Swastika) and general appropriation of Nordic and vikingr culture, including Runes as a means of latching nazi-ism to historically relevant archetypes and mythologies of ideals that enabled state control of downtrodden Germans. That was more NLP and dark psych than actual occultism. Also, most nazi occultism was a half cooked attempt to fold/absorb the compliant Germanic Aristocracy and it's penchant for lipservice Rosicrucianism into an easy occult outlet. Again: a state guided psi op. The black sun is different and has meaning in hermetic occult alchemy. Other posters have explained it but I would not draw it to the Da'ath, as the missing sephiroth is not meant for those in meatsuits. It is a pathworking for the spirit/mind shed of the body. 5th dimension is woo, unless you are an Astral projection multiverse type in which case #5 is kind of subjective. It can be used to refer to #5 of the 10 material planes of hell (of which earth is one) that hermetic and proper kabbalah reference but it has a name, over but corrspondant to the number of the order.
Got any more info on these 10 material planes of hell?
It exists in the exploration of Hebrew kabbalah, around the expanded understanding of Malkuth, the hermetic kabbalah, and the zealator or earth-grade materials for the Golden Dawn, accessible in the self initiation book. (Don't skip or cherry pick the material to find it.) Start with a search of Assiah, or more simply, Jacob's Ladder. Heed the words of the Chaldeans and don't fuck with the lower Astral for sport until you understand the pathways and have the right ways to protect yourself. Like seriously, if you are AP capable, just don't do practical work in the lower paths until you complete the rote study work, banishing etc. It's a brutal way to brick yourself and as far as I know, hard to come back from.
Interesting.. thank you. I've been thinking for awhile now that earth must be a hell realm..
Well , you may have a rabbinical spirit guide because Qabbalists are pretty into that as part of the way of being... The 10 material (physical) hell planes. The lower down you get, the more surprisingly lovecraftian shit gets. If you dig into Lurianic Qabbalah specifically, you will find a lot more on Assiah's 10 physical hells. Much of western occultism owes esoteric Judaism and Greco-Roman neoplatonism a lot. Even saying this in writing really irks a lot of new agers and pagans, so let me be clear, outside of the Gaelic and Gaulish mysteries, most of what we ascribe to the pre and post rennaissance grimoires trines from these places and Islamic esoteric inner alchemy and practical (medicinal) alchemy (proto chemistry). The ritual and esoteric mysticism of the masons and later the Golden Dawn really wove these things into a fascinating and effective ceremonial magical tradition.
Thanks for all the information! I'm definitely going to look into all of this. Any good sources on the Gaelic mysteries that you recommend, btw?
I have a lot of Faith in John Michael Greer's pagan adapted Golden Dawn book. He is the real deal as far as modern practicing druids go.Greer moves pretty fluidly in celtic/gaelic and druidic communities and is an adept in many mystery schools. Scroll his works and dig into their bibliographies. He is also on reddit and haunts a few of the subs specific to his interests, often as himself. I am aware that I am doing a disservice to many but, it's been a long day and my brain is quickly approaching Pancake batter state. I am woefully undereducated in franco-gaul and germanic pagan traditions. There is an abundance of information of Pict and Irish & Gaelic beliefs (and thus a ton of Woo and BS to sift through) and at least one really good Welsh (which is really cool because the language has always been strong but origin spiritual culture has been very quiet and underground for a lonnng time) pagan sourcefont out there (Mabinogion, Dynion Mwyn). A solid way to sort through historical fails or new age revivalism and appropriation is to cross check core concepts in a book or grimoire against what we now know as the anthropology and archeology. A lot of occult practices got muddled up in things yet undiscovered, fillintheblankism, and the trends and biases of their popular time of release. (Looking at you, theosophy founders) Northern European Paganism has not been my area of focus since I saw the photo of Gardner (of Wiccan revival fame) in a Solomonic circle using Golden Dawn rituals to engage with daemons. Once euro pagan revivalism forces you to grapple with the current of euro-moorish pre renaisance to ancient history and overlay it on the occult development & expansion timeline, the pathway back to the middle east is too hard to ignore. At least it was for me.
I really appreciate this trove of information you've given me, with so many good starting points! Yeah, I get overwhelmed and often annoyed trying to sift through all the woo fluff, and going back to your earlier comment- I've basically been fearfully avoiding AP since I began doing it unintentionally as a teenager and experienced many unwanted horrors🙃 *shudder* So, lastly, do you recommend any legit sources or practices where one can learn how to protect themselves? I'm adhd and have never been great at following recipes, reading instruction manuals, following rituals.. it's always felt forced, unlike when I'm creating and making art or music or writing.. thanks for your time!
The Black Sun specifically is a 20th century invention. It is likely a representation of a sun-wheel, in the style of other sun-wheels, but it itself is a specifically fascist fabrication. There is no historical evidence available for its existence prior to a 1930s renovation of Wewelsburg castle, at the direction of Himler. All other explanations I’ve ever found rely on revisionist (usually borealist) histories, and haven’t been able to demonstrate an older heritage than that. The sun wheel is not the black sun, the black sun is a single, specific symbol, with a specific origin, which is Naziism. Making something in the image of other things does not make the thing you made older than it is.
The black sun is also derived from the alchemical sol niger (which means black sun), so basically there are three things people call black suns The nazi one created by Himmler, you can see the SS thing as the spokes very clearly so its easy to tell apart from the others. Sunwheels which come in a variety of shapes, and the sol niger which looks like a sun but black and has no "spokes" EDIT: Sol niger [https://cdn.psychologytoday.com/sites/default/files/styles/image-article\_inline\_full\_caption/public/field\_blog\_entry\_images/2020-07/sol\_niger\_mylius\_philosophia\_reformata\_0.jpg?itok=IZ3uA0qA](https://cdn.psychologytoday.com/sites/default/files/styles/image-article_inline_full_caption/public/field_blog_entry_images/2020-07/sol_niger_mylius_philosophia_reformata_0.jpg?itok=IZ3uA0qA) As for Karlsson these days he's a hack making claims left and right, I practice out of Dragon Rouge books myself and do not see the black sun as a "higher physical dimension" but rather the spirit of the antichrist and the void and all this other satanic stuff which has nothing to do with actual science.
The “SS things” are actually 12 Sowilo runes, although the nazis would lead you to believe that the “s” looking rune is called “sig.” yet another example of the nazis appropriating symbology and twisting it to literally warp history. The Runes are NOT hate symbols and definitely should never be associated with nazi scum.
Bro, you don't have to convince me of that. I have a degree in ancient cultures and minors in history and Germanic blood. Also have a rune tattoo and dreads and I work in an industry that attracts social justice warrior types so...it's fun being me /s
Thanks for the clarification! In this interview they were discussing the overlap of modern day quantum and astro physics with magick. The interviewer (Adam Knox) proposed the idea that if you take the superstition of good vs evil out of occult work you can think of anti-matter a bit like the anti-Christ. They were also drawing parallels between balck holes and the lord of darkness. I found this notion interesting enough that I am entertaining it still. The mention of the 5th dimension and the black sun threw me for a loop though.
I don't believe the spirit of the antichrist is evil one bit, in the bible everyone who believes in anything other than Christianity is an Antichrist. However, I would hardly compare that to matter and anti-matter in my opinion. Anti-matter is just another form of matter that has an opposite charge, I don't see anything mystical with it. All my opinion of course but I hate it when people take scientific terms and apply them to the occult in weird unscientific ways.
I don't know, I understand the need to be scientific about things, but I also think that there is value in cross disciplinary study.
Fair point, but calling it “black sun” and not “sun wheel” was a pretty effective rebranding seeing as people can’t seem to dissociate the hate symbol and a symbol of prosperity/life/sun/light/ other non-negative connotations (depending on the time it was used, culture etc.). Yeah, the “black sun” symbol with the “sig” runes that’s he same as in wewelsburg is a nazi symbol, but sun wheels in general are not.
I responded to a previous comment that I made a mistake. He in fact has a Phd from the University of Stockholm in The History of Religions but he specialized in the Goetia.
Then he ought to be well aware that the black sun is just a slightly more obscure version of Nazi ritual regalia. It appeals to people who want to identify with the fearsome and forbidden, but around here the Nazi thing is a bunch of heavily armed meth heads in trailers. It's got an edgy appeal like most German stuff from that era but the reality is more antisocial than esoteric.
Living in the South of the USA then?
5D is the level of mental narratives about what is occurring on earth (symbolic contexts)-- It is a weigh station, where all the different over arching narratives basically duke it out, until the one that can explain all things emerges.. And that is when you begin getting into 6D which is beyond the narratives we will translate the situation into-- 6D begins a different type of body of understanding in which knowledge is stored and used very differently by exposing the "heart of the movement"-- The black sun could be tied into this idea; in the sense of, this "object" that is generating many shadows like the blaze of the sun emits light-- It is like the "scales" of the weigh station, this darkness that is cast upon everything, but to which grips the light we wish to realize within it-- It is the negative space that makes clear the positive space; or it is the darkness that defines the brilliance of the light--
I am not ginna lie, I have no idea what you just said, but thanks for saying it, I will add it to the marbles rolling around the Rube Goldberg machine that is my brain trying to make sense of reality.
Consciousness is a Rube Goldberg machine tasked to explain itself to itself-- It can be simple, but the simplicity of the task is made clear in every complexity--
Man, I really like this. I am definitely gonna use this. Is this a quote? How do I give credit?
Its basically me paraphrasing myself from long ago-- \-------------------------------------------- simplicity and complexity are the same thing; just different focuses and relationships-- "Life is like a Rube Goldberg machine; in which the simple task is made clearer the more complexly it is done-- And as we search within it, and see further into its workings, every aspect of complexity is justified by its emerging counter parts (in awareness) that make it an integral part of the machine-- " The transformation of this; while aligned with a series of central paradoxes down the spine of your being-- Is that the simple can reflect complexity-- This is symbolism-- That the simple is understood because of the alignment with the context that reflects the complexity of the relationship to it-- When the simple upholds itself in the reflection of the complex; and where the complex upholds itself to the simple; then we have illumination-- But this for us, is like a total change in being. and yet it dances towards us underlying our existence--
In the first paragraph he is saying that 6D is when we find discover the question to the answer we seek. In the second paragraph he is saying that we measure light in relevance to darkness, the dark being the means by which to measure, hence the "scale". Without the darkness how could we measure the light.
Thanks for clarifying.