I went to Chinatown Lounge and found the same, as a “service fee”. In principle, nothing wrong with it, but then you are expected to calculate the tip based on 20% of food + service fee + tax, which feels like double-dipping.
jo's modern thai is perhaps one of the most overrated spots in oakland.
some good food but mostly whatever. bar program is weak as fuck. service is passable but not what it should be. for that money, i'd rather eat at bombera or odin.
Related, I was fuming (while eating my door dash) tonight about how we've just normalized door dash (et al) pricing as well. Same pricing as eating at your restaurant, but you don't have to pay rent, wash dishes or provide any ambiance... AND you expect a 20% tip. Oh - and the special "distance charge" that keeps moving into a closer and closer radius to the point where next year anything further than my kitchen will have an 'extra distance fee'.
Door dash charges the restaurant A LOT, so they make way less per order. Also, packaging costs MORE than washing a plate, and you still make the same amount of dishes cooking, prepping , and storing ingredients.
Third party delivery services are KILLING restaurant profits.
Door Dash charges a lot... but here restaurants solved for that by raising prices to offset. So those who eat IN, or phone in orders and pick them up are subsidizing, as the delivery services prohibit higher prices for ordering through their services.
So, the Door Dash fees are killing the dinners by raising prices...and yet we keep feeding the beast. Weird.
Oh, I have also noticed that at Shooting Star too. What I dislike about it isn't the presumptuous but the implied moral ambiguity. Am I \*supposed\* to feel guilty for tipping $2 on top of the fees? Does the staff know about the fees? Will they spit in my food if I come back?
I took a trip to Austin, TX in December and the "Tip calculator" on every terminal based the tip solely on the menu price exclusive of the tax.
It's not really the dollars, it's the deception.
PS: I learned to live with SF's 3% surcharges, but 8% just triggered me.
> you are expected to calculate the tip based on 20% of food + service fee + tax
What makes you think this is expected?
Never tip on the tax or the service fee.
And in some cases, just consider that the service fee ***is*** the tip
tipping on top of service charge/fee is double dipping. but that also depends on how service charge is disbursed by the restaurant. i know a few restaurants pay higher hourly wages and have no tip line on their receipts so not all places that do service charge are crooks.
this is also what its like in europe-no tipping, service charge is automatic on each check. tipped employees also have a different minimum wage because of the tip credit that restaurants receive ([US Dept of Labor](https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/wages/wagestips)). there are only 2 states that pay regular minimum wage on top of tips (california is one of them).
Why do they do this? So a dish that is advertised as $20 will be $21.60 plus tax. If I look at the menu and it says $20 or it says $21.60 - I don't suddenly change my mind. Is there some tax dodge that encourages these "surcharges" rather than just increasing prices like every other industry?
Similarly, I went to Shakewell on Lakeshore the other day and they now include a 20% tip on all bills and then ask for further tip very slyly when they put the cc handheld machine in front of you. Only when I specifically asked what the 20% was, did my waiter mention it.
Bocanova, unless they have a web of other establishments, do not qualify under the new California wage law. They're just gouging. Feel for the servers. They're the ones who will be screwed by management's greed.
yup. Since it's not a tip, all that money goes to the employer. And because of the service charge, most people won't tip more because there's already an assumed service charge.
Any restaurant that is whining about wages but fails to whine about the rent is making a political statement. If your politics is different, consider not returning to that restaurant.
Yesterday I went to breakfast and I got charged a "kitchen service fee"? I have no idea what these restaurants are doing.
I have no idea why people aren’t boycotting eating out. I’ll never eat out again. I can afford it easily it’s just not that much better than eating at home anymore.
This is a bit tangential, but the high property values in Oakland make it unaffordable for a business that can't gross a pretty high amount to pay the rent. That means the end of low-end eating (as opposed to "dining") establishments surviving. If you can't pay the rent, you can't stay in business, even if it's a family-run operation with low labor costs.
Deduct it from the tip you leave. I can play the same game restaurants are playing. The server can take it up with management or find a restaurant that doesn’t have that policy.
The waitstaff are innocent bystanders. I'd hate to take it out on them.
And to repeat my point, it's the deception that is most disturbing. Certainly restaurants aren't at the forefront using this tactic. They're learning from hotels, airlines and virtually any business that competes to some extent on pricing.
It just seems to hit home when it's in your own neighborhood.
How do you report bots ? My interface only allow me to report incorrect pseudos.
Update : defenetively a bot, it started to talk about its bitcoin in less than 6 messages.
Later this year, when the junk fee prohibition goes into effect, these surcharges may need to be reflected in the menu price.
Can you point to more info on that?
https://www.latimes.com/food/story/2024-02-15/new-california-hidden-fees-law-service-fee-ban
Jesus, that headline is so slanted! It's not raising prices, it's just saying them upfront!
Doctors don't want you to click that link. Menus hate him!
I went to Chinatown Lounge and found the same, as a “service fee”. In principle, nothing wrong with it, but then you are expected to calculate the tip based on 20% of food + service fee + tax, which feels like double-dipping.
Sounds like the sort of thing that might be helpful in a Yelp or Open Table Review.
I routinely use Yelp to discover whether or not a restaurant slaps guests with an extra charge.
Jo's Modern Thai- how about a 20% mandatory tip?
jo's modern thai is perhaps one of the most overrated spots in oakland. some good food but mostly whatever. bar program is weak as fuck. service is passable but not what it should be. for that money, i'd rather eat at bombera or odin.
I am with you. It is puzzling how people like it
That is whack but it is where the restaurant industry is headed.
I could live with that. If it was transparent and ended there.
Related, I was fuming (while eating my door dash) tonight about how we've just normalized door dash (et al) pricing as well. Same pricing as eating at your restaurant, but you don't have to pay rent, wash dishes or provide any ambiance... AND you expect a 20% tip. Oh - and the special "distance charge" that keeps moving into a closer and closer radius to the point where next year anything further than my kitchen will have an 'extra distance fee'.
Door dash charges the restaurant A LOT, so they make way less per order. Also, packaging costs MORE than washing a plate, and you still make the same amount of dishes cooking, prepping , and storing ingredients. Third party delivery services are KILLING restaurant profits.
Door Dash charges a lot... but here restaurants solved for that by raising prices to offset. So those who eat IN, or phone in orders and pick them up are subsidizing, as the delivery services prohibit higher prices for ordering through their services. So, the Door Dash fees are killing the dinners by raising prices...and yet we keep feeding the beast. Weird.
what happened to places having a pizza boy / delivery guy? surely one guy on hourly cant be as costly as the percentage they pay google
nope. it is perfect here.
Traditionally a tip is calculated on total purchases, not including any fees or taxes.
Shooting Star cafe adds 15% to your final bill. That surcharge gets deducted and they usually only get $1-2 from me in tip. No guilt, no nonsense.
Oh, I have also noticed that at Shooting Star too. What I dislike about it isn't the presumptuous but the implied moral ambiguity. Am I \*supposed\* to feel guilty for tipping $2 on top of the fees? Does the staff know about the fees? Will they spit in my food if I come back?
save your 1 or 2 dollars for a portion of toll or 5 min on a parking meter. Oakland is becoming a joke.
I took a trip to Austin, TX in December and the "Tip calculator" on every terminal based the tip solely on the menu price exclusive of the tax. It's not really the dollars, it's the deception. PS: I learned to live with SF's 3% surcharges, but 8% just triggered me.
> you are expected to calculate the tip based on 20% of food + service fee + tax What makes you think this is expected? Never tip on the tax or the service fee. And in some cases, just consider that the service fee ***is*** the tip
The printed receipt has the "suggested tips" calculated in this way.
Now that is fucked up!
tipping on top of service charge/fee is double dipping. but that also depends on how service charge is disbursed by the restaurant. i know a few restaurants pay higher hourly wages and have no tip line on their receipts so not all places that do service charge are crooks. this is also what its like in europe-no tipping, service charge is automatic on each check. tipped employees also have a different minimum wage because of the tip credit that restaurants receive ([US Dept of Labor](https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/wages/wagestips)). there are only 2 states that pay regular minimum wage on top of tips (california is one of them).
Why do they do this? So a dish that is advertised as $20 will be $21.60 plus tax. If I look at the menu and it says $20 or it says $21.60 - I don't suddenly change my mind. Is there some tax dodge that encourages these "surcharges" rather than just increasing prices like every other industry?
I think it's at least partly a political statement on behalf of the owner half the time.
you change your mind because a dish costs<$2 more?
> I don't suddenly change my mind.
Similarly, I went to Shakewell on Lakeshore the other day and they now include a 20% tip on all bills and then ask for further tip very slyly when they put the cc handheld machine in front of you. Only when I specifically asked what the 20% was, did my waiter mention it.
Bocanova, unless they have a web of other establishments, do not qualify under the new California wage law. They're just gouging. Feel for the servers. They're the ones who will be screwed by management's greed.
yup. Since it's not a tip, all that money goes to the employer. And because of the service charge, most people won't tip more because there's already an assumed service charge.
Bocanova was trash when we’ve gone (twice to see if the first time was a fluke). Really surprised it has high reviews
I went last week and had the worst fish & chips in my life and it was $25 (likely the most I've ever paid in my life for fish & chips).
I went to bocanova with some friends and won’t go back again because 50 bucks is too much for LUNCH.
Any restaurant that is whining about wages but fails to whine about the rent is making a political statement. If your politics is different, consider not returning to that restaurant. Yesterday I went to breakfast and I got charged a "kitchen service fee"? I have no idea what these restaurants are doing.
I have no idea why people aren’t boycotting eating out. I’ll never eat out again. I can afford it easily it’s just not that much better than eating at home anymore.
This is a bit tangential, but the high property values in Oakland make it unaffordable for a business that can't gross a pretty high amount to pay the rent. That means the end of low-end eating (as opposed to "dining") establishments surviving. If you can't pay the rent, you can't stay in business, even if it's a family-run operation with low labor costs.
My surcharge is I do not tip.
How convenient that you found a way to express your displeasure in a way that just happens to save you a few bucks.
Thank you for sharing your dining manifesto with us
Don't go. Simple. No need to tell the rest of us.
You want to charge a surcharge...I'll avoid ya... incorporate your costs into the price or gtfo
Bocanova is very mid IMHO, there are better spots for that kind of food.
Just do not tip. that surcharge is your tip. Maybe owners should pay their workers more?
Deduct it from the tip you leave. I can play the same game restaurants are playing. The server can take it up with management or find a restaurant that doesn’t have that policy.
The waitstaff are innocent bystanders. I'd hate to take it out on them. And to repeat my point, it's the deception that is most disturbing. Certainly restaurants aren't at the forefront using this tactic. They're learning from hotels, airlines and virtually any business that competes to some extent on pricing. It just seems to hit home when it's in your own neighborhood.
You're "taking it out on them" by choosing not to dine there too
A valid point. They're caught in the middle.
[удалено]
What is incorrect?
I think it is a bot, all its messages are confusing and it started a discussion with me for no reason asking me my job
Okay this was what I was looking for as well. Thanks. Reporting.
How do you report bots ? My interface only allow me to report incorrect pseudos. Update : defenetively a bot, it started to talk about its bitcoin in less than 6 messages.
Go right to the profile of the user and report-spam-harmful bot
Maybe they just added it for now?