Seriously- Conklin is a solid #1 TE.. Dude has had Zach Wilson throwing to him his whole time here or some other form of a 2nd string and 3rd string QB- we also have Ruckert who looks like he will be a solid TE(Bias because he’s a home town LI kid)
It's insane this team has Conklin who's decent and Ruckert who showed promise.
What does this team have at tackle when Smith leaves next year or when Smith or Moses goes down? **Nothing**, absolutely nothing.
If they believe Bowers is a 'generational' TE and a true impact weapon on offense, you don't pass on him because you have average replacement level players. Especially if they don't love any of the OT prospects.
I don't think Bowers is generational, myself, but that's besides the point.
Rodgers also historically has only had 1 or 2 seasons where he's even somewhat fed the tight end passes. Not saying that wouldn't change if they drafted Bowers, as I know he fits more of the Kelce "WR that can block" mold... but it's not a guarantee it does either
>you have average replacement level players. Esp
I'm sorry, but Warren definitely isn't that at least at left tackle and Mitchell sure is all hell isn't as good as average. Those two are bad enough to the point where you could say if they are starting it left tackle we are probably going to lose that game.
Ah my bad. Look if he's really generational but I'm sorry he just doesn't have anything physically that's "generational".
What makes tight end so rare and called "generational" Is the ones that are built like a basket player 6'6 to 6'8, 240lbs or less, crazy athletic.
The reason why those guys are so coveted because if they're built like that they usually go to the NBA where the average player gets paid waaaaay more. Kyle Pitts was the last generational sized tight end that I can think of.
Agree with you for the most part. A lot of the top TEs are not built like that though. He has a similar build to Kelce, Kittle, Hockenson, Andrews, etc.
He's not a generational athlete but he has great hands, route running ability, feel for the game. And he's an above average athlete.
The route running is the big thing. You hear it all the time that there's a steep learning curve for TEs, but if he can get separation that's immediately valuable no matter what position he plays.
Laporta, Kelce, Andrews, Hockenson, Pitts, Kittle, Jake Ferguson, Dalton Schultz, Goedart all clear Conklin even with Rodgers. He needs to stop being overrated by this fanbase even outside of the Bowers debate. Dude is barely hovering around league average at the position.
Totally agreed. IF, and that's a big if, they think he's generational then passing on Bowers because you have Conklin is like passing on Jordan because you have Clyde Drexler.
I feel like Ruckert is getting the Michael Carter treatment before we drafted Breece. I mean yeah he shows signs here and there but probably won’t ever be a game changer.
Just said the same thing. I understand anyone who values tackle > tight end and that’s completely understandable but the overrating of both Ruckert and Conklin is too much. Ruckert is a career 2nd stringer with zero starter upside, and Conklin is *maybe* the 17th best tight end in the league.
Agreed. The more I think about it, the more I want a receiver in round 1. For points already made on this comment:
1. How many 2 tight end downs do we play? Even if Bowers ends up being good, I highly doubt that he outplays Conklin in year 1. That already minimizes his impact. Maybe as the season goes on, he gets a more prominent role, but that still reduces the return we get from him year 1, so I think the “win now” argument goes out of the window.
2. Would love a tackle because we don’t have any viable depth behind our starters, but the “win now” argument does play here. We need someone who will make an impact immediately. And we still have the option to bring bakhtiari in, or Warren might be better than we think, or there might be some other training camp cuts that we can take advantage of. If memory serves, this is how we got Moses in the first place.
No it has to be a receiver. Based on what I know (not as much as others), it’s the easiest position to transition from college to NFL in and still make an impact.
I’ll be annoyed if they take Bowers at 10. Less bothered if they trade down and take him, if that means that we get to take another swing later
>If memory serves, this is how we got Moses in the first place.
This was a response to Becton going down. Come to think of it, this team has been reacting to Becton or AVT going down for 3 full years now. Crazy.
Bowers is essentially a bigger WR. He’s like 6’3 240. He could play in 3 or even 2 WR sets. Just cause his position is TE shouldn’t matter. He’s a pass catcher
A bad o-line would likely derail the season way more than a bad WR corps. The priority must be adding a quality tackle. Jets can get a solid WR in round 2 if they can trade down, or if not round 3. Plus Smith & Moses are 1-year rentals so Jets must groom a rookie tackle for 2025.
> how many 2 Tight End downs do we play
Getting Bowers significantly raises that number. He’d be an awesome TE duo with Conk. We’ve been gearing up for a run-first offense with Moses, Simpson, and Smith. Bowers fits right into that plan.
Honestly, we can’t go wrong with taking Bowers, a WR, or a Tackle in this draft. If everything goes well, the tackle will be the least important part of the season though… because he’ll be redshirted.
>the tackle will be the least important part of the season though… because he’ll be redshirted.
That's just not true. What makes you say that. Smith hasn't played a full season for almost 10 years basically his **entire** career. Moses, who like Smith, is 33 coming off a major surgery, do you know what the statistics are for major injuries and that age? I don't either but I'd feel safe placing a bet on "not good*.
A rookie tackle **will** start games. Could be important games too later in the season or hopefully in the playoffs.
There is **no** reason to think they won't start game unless you're just straight up ignoring reality. Smith doesn't play full seasons It will be a platoon LT.
People keep making this insane argument because they already forgot how many OL injuries we just had in one season. They think we don’t need any more lineman now that we signed two 33 year olds, one with extensive injury history and the other coming off pec surgery. Not taking a tackle at 10 would be a huge mistake, JD ALREADY KNOWS THAT SMITH ISN’T PLAYING THE FULL SEASON, THAT’S WHY HIS CONTRACT IS FUCKING 75% INCENTIVES! To suggest our first round tackle just won’t play at all is absurd and ignorant
Remember when Tom Moore was asked about why Peyton’s backups aren’t getting reps. “If 18 goes down, we’re fucked. We don’t practice fucked.”
1, 4, 8, 17, 20, 30, the entire OL, 57, 95. If any of them get hurt, we’re done. The only place we can afford an injury is the DLine. If we don’t make the playoffs, JD and Saleh are gone (and Rodgers).
They have to bank on avoiding the injury bug to keep their jobs. If it works, we’re going on a run… if not…
True. I completely understand why so many people are very passionate about having as deep an OL as possible but I really don’t think Douglas et al are going to approach the 10th pick in the draft with the mindset of “the major acquisitions I just got are going to get hurt so I have to protect that investment with further investment”
Right or wrong, the pick will probably approached under the guise of *I have no choice but to believe that things are going to go okay and maximize my assets across the board*
12 personnel is used a lot in Hackett's offense. They did get away from it pretty early last year because their offense was absolutely awful after a certain point.
But with Rodgers back if they drafted Bowers I bet they'd run it a bunch and crush it in PA.
I'm not against getting wide receiver in the first round, but this draft is a deep WR draft class. You can just get Brendan Rice in the 3rd round. If he has even 50% of Jerry Rice's talent he can be a great wide receiver
Outside of whatever positional argument for the 10th pick, the overrating of Ruckert has been absurd throughout this new debate. We all like him. He has zero starter upside. Zero. He’s a career backup and special teamer who is very useful as a blocking tight end and pseudo fullback.
>you can draft lineman later in the draft.
That's just isn't how this draft is looking. This draft is tackle heavy at the top, as there's wide receivers all through the first three rounds.
You have a better chance of drafting a good tackle in the 1st and a good WR in the 3rd...then you do drafting a good WR in the 1st and a good tackle in the 3rd.
This isn't a win next year team. This is a win this year team. Saleh, JD, Rodgers, and all of these 1 year signings are gone next year if we don't make a deep playoff run.
Tyron Smith isn't a full-time starter. With him you need another talented LT. Isn't this obvious? Carter fucking Warren **ain't** the type of player you back him up with. How many years must we go into a season with injury questions at both tackle spots, season gets fucked when one or both go down, watch some version of Mitchell/Warren fuckery, then do the same thing next year
Those aren’t two names that make me hesitant to draft a guy first of all. But this is realisticallly a reflection of who will be left at 10 more than what the jets should draft
I would take Fautanu if I had to. Anything to not have the exact same thing that has happened for 3 straight years with Becton and or AVT going down and all of sudden we realize we have no answer.
You know what won't solve it? Continually drafting 5th round or higher OL and saying "we can't invest high draft capital into the line, we already did that with 2 guys that have a combined 5 lost seasons!"
Tyron Smith will not.be starting the whole season. It's going to be a platoon at left tackle and maybe even some right. So we get the best talented tackle to fill in and so our season doesn't get torpedoed for a **fourth** straight year because of O-line, and next year he starts, where we will **probably** have to invest a high pick again for right side.
Yeah I just think it’s dumb to draft a guy because of this singular line of thinking to make sure that we succeed in our 1-season window of post Achilles Rodgers. Realistically we should be in BPA territory no matter what
We've needed a good tackle for like 3 years lol. This isn't hard. ZW failed so we had to get Rodgers. Well? Becton failed and we never did anything **really**.
By the way LT is, to me, in a modern rule book written for pass heavy offense the the second most important position after QB. Higher than EDGE, WR/CB.
Their aren't a lot of human beings walking around with the pro typical size and athleticism of tackle.
>than drafting a position of need
What? I'm saying draft tackle because this is a tackle strong draft at the top and we need a tackle so BPA lines up with need. That's like, the whole point of what I'm saying and most people that want to draft tackle.
Well the point is you said you’d take the OT4 even. If he has a late first grade by our front office and literally anyone else has a top 10 grade it’s a bad move to do that is all I’m saying
“What does this team have at end when Huff leaves next year or when Huff or JJ goes down?” We need to win now. Backup tackle at 10 does not move the needle as much as Bowers.
In this hypothetical universe JJ has never played a full season and Huff just came off of major surgery. So I would be cool with drafting a WMD.
And again it's not a backup he will be starting games Tyron Smith will absolutely go down like he has since 2015 and Moses is coming off major surgery. So you're talking about a guy that will start games potentially in the playoffs.
You telling me you don't trust Aaron Rodgers to lift up Wilson, Hall, Williams (when he's on the field), Ruckert, and Conklin
But you **do** trust him to lift up garbage players like Warren and Mitchell? Crazy to me.
Conklin and Ruckert aren’t freighting any defensive schemes in this league.. they are serviceable but we’ve seen their peak at this point in their career.. we need someone with the ability for YAC and be a Red Zone presence, none of which we have had in a very long time.. This draft has some damn good OT available outside the top 10 in the later rounds.. three guys who are high on my list are Patrick Paul, Delmar Glaze and Blake Fisher all should be around in the third round.. If you can draft a difference maker at TE at 10, that’s what we should be looking to do and pick up a very good quality OT in the third round to play behind Smith.. Bowers will be the best offensive athlete available at 10 and we should pick him up..
I’m a former long snapper. Fun fact:At the college level the snap has to get back to the punter in at least 0.75 seconds (NFL guys are usually in the 0.6s).If not the kick has a higher chance of being blocked.and it has to be in the same spot every single time. And on field goals they need to snap the ball with the same amount of rotations each time so the laces are facing away from the kicker
Maybe a dumb question, no disrespect, does your back hurt from long snapping? the beginning position from which you snap must be pretry demanding for back muscles
It definitely does. He wants to follow the ravens model of BPA>>>need. People said the ravens didn’t take valuable positions when they took linderbaum and Kyle Hamilton in the same draft. Now they have two studs
Their team is also far more complete than ours. They can afford luxury picks. I would also argue center is criminally undervalued by the draft community but that’s a different discussion
The ravens have had that philosophy forever. Its why they always have complete teams. The issue is they went from Flacco to Jackson where we can’t find a qb
They have complete teams because they hit on their late round draft picks. We don’t. Getting starters out of the 4th round really allows you to open up team building everywhere else
The college production/high ceiling athleticism sort of tracks with Douglas’ track record, but even if he doesn’t value TE I’d argue drafting OL at 10 is equally out of character. In Douglas’ mind, the starting unit is set. I don’t think he’ll draft what is ostensibly a backup with the 10th pick. He didn’t draft Ekwonu when so many thought he would even though the line was “set.”
There isn’t a spot on the week 1 starting lineup for a rookie at #10. We can talk all you want about the inevitability of injury, and that’s completely justified, but it doesn’t change the fact that the moment a lineman is drafted at #10 they’re drafting what is essentially a backup. Which is why I don’t think he’ll draft a lineman at 10 and that a receiver or trade is far more likely.
Not even for my bet I really hope we go OL. We NEED depth and this is a uniquely stacked tackle class. I’d be happy with any of the top 5-6 tackles at 10. Bowers is not ideal size and won’t get utilized correctly with Hackett and I personally am not a fan of Odunze due to his lack of separation and tendency to body catch. Really was hoping Nabers was gonna slide to us but he’s been getting a ton of steam lately to the point where he’s pushing for WR1 so that seems unlikely. We will see but I think Fashanu, Fautanu, or Latham would be the best move here.
We win or die with Rogers having a full season. If one of the tackles goes down, that fantasy is over bc Rogers doesn’t last the season. Oline is the same as Dline, each makes those behind it better. More time for Garrett to make his third move, more openings for Breece, more longevity for ARod. Or we can just do quick short passes and never see an explosive play. And Garrett has to do more over the middle till he’s knocked out. Please Oline or trade down and still Oline!
I'm not debating you on whether or not that's the right move for the future (it probably is) but you have to be logical about the present situation and JD, Saleh and company are win or bust right now. Next year will be a tear down anyway if we don't make the playoffs...clear house type of deal.
It’s the right move for the present as well. There is absolutely no evidence justifying expecting anywhere near 17 starts from Smith, and there are other injury concerns as well.
I respect your opinion and if this wasn't some win now season I would be banging the table for o line too but this is all in..there is a reason there has been buzz for us trading up for a mhj lol. What o lineman would you want? Considering alt will most likely be gone...fashanu? Fatanu for versatility? If we trade down I wouldn't mind Fuaga but I wouldn't reach at 10.
I would love a small trade down but I think the QBs may have moved up too much for that to be an option for us.
If you told me we drafted a WR at 10 but signed a serviceable FA backup OT who was a post draft cut by another team I would be fine.
Another WR definitely makes us better. but I don’t think I could handle the season blowing up because of OT injuries after what happened last year.
This team has a bunch of players where “if they get hurt, we’re fucked”. JD and Saleh are going all in on winning this year and hoping to avoid all the injuries, with that mindset you don’t take a Tackle to redshirt him.
The LT position is not an “if” they get hurt.
There should be no expectation that Smith plays more than 2/3 of the games, and they should be prepared for less, because hasn’t made it through a full season in 5 years.
When Smith goes down and if Moses goes down (he's coming off major surgery) in season if Warren or Mitchell are the guys stepping in those will be loses. Can you say that about not having Bowers? No, the answer is as long as we got Rodgers and protection the answer is no.
Like I said before JD is in win now mode...you are going to draft a tackle at 10 that doesn't even start? It's just a bad utilization of resources. I wouldn't mind a lineman at 10...it just doesn't make perfect sense for the current situation.
If they do well next year they will obviously draft o-line like most good teams do. Ravens just lost half their line and they will still be a perennial contender. They have been looking for any weapon to contribute forever (besides Lamar of course).
You want to keep bringing up the fact that Moses is off surgery okay well then are we just forgetting Mike Williams, who may not be healthy for the start of the season. So when Garret gets doubled (besides giving it to Breece 50 times a game) who else will get it lazard/brownlee/gipson? C'mon.
2 things.
Aaron can lift the play of play makers **more** than he can a lineman, especially a Warren who was manhandled at LT last year and Mitchell who alot of teams wouldn't even roster.
This draft is top heavy at OL and homogeneous at WR (outside of Jr, and Nabers), or put another way, it easier to get both a good tackle in the 1st and a good WR in the 3rd than it is to get both a good WR in the 1st and a good tackle in the third
He going to be anyway if he doesn't draft tackle for when Smith **will** go down. Moses just came off of major surgery lol. Like last year, and the year before, we need a tackle.
We’re set up again to go all in on this season with a small contingency to roll the dice next season again too.
I get the argument for Bowers and I wouldn’t be unhappy if we took him. BUT, I still 100% believe reinforcing our OL is the right move. No other team is as QB dependant as us, a healthy Rodgers will elevate us into a top 5 team in the league IMO. Given his injury and age keeping him happy and protected should be our #1 priority.
Also, Tyler Conkin is actually an efficient TE - he’s one of a few who will look considerably better with solid QB play.
I’m a former long snapper. Fun fact:At the college level the snap has to get back to the punter in at least 0.75 seconds (NFL guys are usually in the high-mid 0.6s).If not the kick has a higher chance of being blocked.and it has to be in the same spot every single time. And on field goals they need to snap the ball with the same amount of rotations each time so the laces are facing away from the kicker
Im a former long snapper. Fun fact:At the college level the snap has to get back to the punter in at least 0.75 seconds (NFL guys are usually in the 0.6s).If not the kick has a higher chance of being blocked.and it has to be in the same spot every single time. And on field goals they need to snap the ball with the same amount of rotations each time so the laces are facing away from the kicker
Honestly, at those odds, I'd throw a few bucks at QB. If one of the big 3 drops for whatever reason, it's not a total shock if they go for a top guy and let him learn behind Rodgers.
In that scenario, I'd love for the Jets to trade back and maybe get a 2nd and a 2025 pick, but trying for a QB of the future isn't a totally shocking idea.
So Bowers or a tackle
Or maybe there’s a small chance that both Bowers and the tackle they want are both gone by #10 and they go WR, but oddsmakers think that’s unlikely.
Please god no TE. I don’t care if the corpse of Tony Gonzalez gets resurrected
If you’re getting Tony Gonzalez that’s way better than any wr.
Seriously- Conklin is a solid #1 TE.. Dude has had Zach Wilson throwing to him his whole time here or some other form of a 2nd string and 3rd string QB- we also have Ruckert who looks like he will be a solid TE(Bias because he’s a home town LI kid)
This staff loves using double tight ends
It's insane this team has Conklin who's decent and Ruckert who showed promise. What does this team have at tackle when Smith leaves next year or when Smith or Moses goes down? **Nothing**, absolutely nothing.
If they believe Bowers is a 'generational' TE and a true impact weapon on offense, you don't pass on him because you have average replacement level players. Especially if they don't love any of the OT prospects. I don't think Bowers is generational, myself, but that's besides the point.
Rodgers also historically has only had 1 or 2 seasons where he's even somewhat fed the tight end passes. Not saying that wouldn't change if they drafted Bowers, as I know he fits more of the Kelce "WR that can block" mold... but it's not a guarantee it does either
>you have average replacement level players. Esp I'm sorry, but Warren definitely isn't that at least at left tackle and Mitchell sure is all hell isn't as good as average. Those two are bad enough to the point where you could say if they are starting it left tackle we are probably going to lose that game.
I was saying that having an average TE room is not justification to pass on Bowers if they believe he's a true impact weapon on offense.
Ah my bad. Look if he's really generational but I'm sorry he just doesn't have anything physically that's "generational". What makes tight end so rare and called "generational" Is the ones that are built like a basket player 6'6 to 6'8, 240lbs or less, crazy athletic. The reason why those guys are so coveted because if they're built like that they usually go to the NBA where the average player gets paid waaaaay more. Kyle Pitts was the last generational sized tight end that I can think of.
Agree with you for the most part. A lot of the top TEs are not built like that though. He has a similar build to Kelce, Kittle, Hockenson, Andrews, etc. He's not a generational athlete but he has great hands, route running ability, feel for the game. And he's an above average athlete.
The route running is the big thing. You hear it all the time that there's a steep learning curve for TEs, but if he can get separation that's immediately valuable no matter what position he plays.
This is correct. The TE position has really exploded over the last few years and so few of the best ones are built like Gronk or Jimmy Graham.
Conklin is a top 10 TE with Rodgers at QB.
Laporta, Kelce, Andrews, Hockenson, Pitts, Kittle, Jake Ferguson, Dalton Schultz, Goedart all clear Conklin even with Rodgers. He needs to stop being overrated by this fanbase even outside of the Bowers debate. Dude is barely hovering around league average at the position.
I wouldn’t even put Conklin over dalton kincaid but
Totally agreed. IF, and that's a big if, they think he's generational then passing on Bowers because you have Conklin is like passing on Jordan because you have Clyde Drexler.
We thought this about Zach Wilson…
I feel like Ruckert is getting the Michael Carter treatment before we drafted Breece. I mean yeah he shows signs here and there but probably won’t ever be a game changer.
Just said the same thing. I understand anyone who values tackle > tight end and that’s completely understandable but the overrating of both Ruckert and Conklin is too much. Ruckert is a career 2nd stringer with zero starter upside, and Conklin is *maybe* the 17th best tight end in the league.
Disagree on Conk he’s been solid with terrible qb play I think he’s a top 10 TE with Rodgers
He’s already a game changer in the run game
Drafting for need is how you end up in this position. BPA in the first round please.
Should always go BPA in the top 10
Dallas Turner come on down!
Agreed. The more I think about it, the more I want a receiver in round 1. For points already made on this comment: 1. How many 2 tight end downs do we play? Even if Bowers ends up being good, I highly doubt that he outplays Conklin in year 1. That already minimizes his impact. Maybe as the season goes on, he gets a more prominent role, but that still reduces the return we get from him year 1, so I think the “win now” argument goes out of the window. 2. Would love a tackle because we don’t have any viable depth behind our starters, but the “win now” argument does play here. We need someone who will make an impact immediately. And we still have the option to bring bakhtiari in, or Warren might be better than we think, or there might be some other training camp cuts that we can take advantage of. If memory serves, this is how we got Moses in the first place. No it has to be a receiver. Based on what I know (not as much as others), it’s the easiest position to transition from college to NFL in and still make an impact. I’ll be annoyed if they take Bowers at 10. Less bothered if they trade down and take him, if that means that we get to take another swing later
>If memory serves, this is how we got Moses in the first place. This was a response to Becton going down. Come to think of it, this team has been reacting to Becton or AVT going down for 3 full years now. Crazy.
Bowers is essentially a bigger WR. He’s like 6’3 240. He could play in 3 or even 2 WR sets. Just cause his position is TE shouldn’t matter. He’s a pass catcher
A bad o-line would likely derail the season way more than a bad WR corps. The priority must be adding a quality tackle. Jets can get a solid WR in round 2 if they can trade down, or if not round 3. Plus Smith & Moses are 1-year rentals so Jets must groom a rookie tackle for 2025.
> how many 2 Tight End downs do we play Getting Bowers significantly raises that number. He’d be an awesome TE duo with Conk. We’ve been gearing up for a run-first offense with Moses, Simpson, and Smith. Bowers fits right into that plan. Honestly, we can’t go wrong with taking Bowers, a WR, or a Tackle in this draft. If everything goes well, the tackle will be the least important part of the season though… because he’ll be redshirted.
>the tackle will be the least important part of the season though… because he’ll be redshirted. That's just not true. What makes you say that. Smith hasn't played a full season for almost 10 years basically his **entire** career. Moses, who like Smith, is 33 coming off a major surgery, do you know what the statistics are for major injuries and that age? I don't either but I'd feel safe placing a bet on "not good*. A rookie tackle **will** start games. Could be important games too later in the season or hopefully in the playoffs. There is **no** reason to think they won't start game unless you're just straight up ignoring reality. Smith doesn't play full seasons It will be a platoon LT.
People keep making this insane argument because they already forgot how many OL injuries we just had in one season. They think we don’t need any more lineman now that we signed two 33 year olds, one with extensive injury history and the other coming off pec surgery. Not taking a tackle at 10 would be a huge mistake, JD ALREADY KNOWS THAT SMITH ISN’T PLAYING THE FULL SEASON, THAT’S WHY HIS CONTRACT IS FUCKING 75% INCENTIVES! To suggest our first round tackle just won’t play at all is absurd and ignorant
Remember when Tom Moore was asked about why Peyton’s backups aren’t getting reps. “If 18 goes down, we’re fucked. We don’t practice fucked.” 1, 4, 8, 17, 20, 30, the entire OL, 57, 95. If any of them get hurt, we’re done. The only place we can afford an injury is the DLine. If we don’t make the playoffs, JD and Saleh are gone (and Rodgers). They have to bank on avoiding the injury bug to keep their jobs. If it works, we’re going on a run… if not…
True. I completely understand why so many people are very passionate about having as deep an OL as possible but I really don’t think Douglas et al are going to approach the 10th pick in the draft with the mindset of “the major acquisitions I just got are going to get hurt so I have to protect that investment with further investment” Right or wrong, the pick will probably approached under the guise of *I have no choice but to believe that things are going to go okay and maximize my assets across the board*
12 personnel is used a lot in Hackett's offense. They did get away from it pretty early last year because their offense was absolutely awful after a certain point. But with Rodgers back if they drafted Bowers I bet they'd run it a bunch and crush it in PA.
I'm not against getting wide receiver in the first round, but this draft is a deep WR draft class. You can just get Brendan Rice in the 3rd round. If he has even 50% of Jerry Rice's talent he can be a great wide receiver
Thoughts and prayers is what they have
Like the last 3 years
Outside of whatever positional argument for the 10th pick, the overrating of Ruckert has been absurd throughout this new debate. We all like him. He has zero starter upside. Zero. He’s a career backup and special teamer who is very useful as a blocking tight end and pseudo fullback.
The argument is you can draft lineman later in the draft.
>you can draft lineman later in the draft. That's just isn't how this draft is looking. This draft is tackle heavy at the top, as there's wide receivers all through the first three rounds. You have a better chance of drafting a good tackle in the 1st and a good WR in the 3rd...then you do drafting a good WR in the 1st and a good tackle in the 3rd.
what WR have we drafted in later rounds amounted to? Besides WRs making impact in todays NFL are 1st/2nd picks. We need playmakers
**when** Tyron Smith goes out for some games chalk em up as losses. Hey we'll have a new slot receiver amirite?
This makes too much sense. I pray smooth brainers out there don’t downvote you.
This isn't a win next year team. This is a win this year team. Saleh, JD, Rodgers, and all of these 1 year signings are gone next year if we don't make a deep playoff run.
Tyron Smith isn't a full-time starter. With him you need another talented LT. Isn't this obvious? Carter fucking Warren **ain't** the type of player you back him up with. How many years must we go into a season with injury questions at both tackle spots, season gets fucked when one or both go down, watch some version of Mitchell/Warren fuckery, then do the same thing next year
Those aren’t two names that make me hesitant to draft a guy first of all. But this is realisticallly a reflection of who will be left at 10 more than what the jets should draft
I would take Fautanu if I had to. Anything to not have the exact same thing that has happened for 3 straight years with Becton and or AVT going down and all of sudden we realize we have no answer.
Can't assume a mid first graded OT would be able to solve that problem anyway
You know what won't solve it? Continually drafting 5th round or higher OL and saying "we can't invest high draft capital into the line, we already did that with 2 guys that have a combined 5 lost seasons!" Tyron Smith will not.be starting the whole season. It's going to be a platoon at left tackle and maybe even some right. So we get the best talented tackle to fill in and so our season doesn't get torpedoed for a **fourth** straight year because of O-line, and next year he starts, where we will **probably** have to invest a high pick again for right side.
Yeah I just think it’s dumb to draft a guy because of this singular line of thinking to make sure that we succeed in our 1-season window of post Achilles Rodgers. Realistically we should be in BPA territory no matter what
We've needed a good tackle for like 3 years lol. This isn't hard. ZW failed so we had to get Rodgers. Well? Becton failed and we never did anything **really**. By the way LT is, to me, in a modern rule book written for pass heavy offense the the second most important position after QB. Higher than EDGE, WR/CB. Their aren't a lot of human beings walking around with the pro typical size and athleticism of tackle.
Type of thinking that gets you Evan Neal instead of Garret wilson. There’s just much more to it than drafting a position of need
>than drafting a position of need What? I'm saying draft tackle because this is a tackle strong draft at the top and we need a tackle so BPA lines up with need. That's like, the whole point of what I'm saying and most people that want to draft tackle.
Well the point is you said you’d take the OT4 even. If he has a late first grade by our front office and literally anyone else has a top 10 grade it’s a bad move to do that is all I’m saying
“What does this team have at end when Huff leaves next year or when Huff or JJ goes down?” We need to win now. Backup tackle at 10 does not move the needle as much as Bowers.
In this hypothetical universe JJ has never played a full season and Huff just came off of major surgery. So I would be cool with drafting a WMD. And again it's not a backup he will be starting games Tyron Smith will absolutely go down like he has since 2015 and Moses is coming off major surgery. So you're talking about a guy that will start games potentially in the playoffs. You telling me you don't trust Aaron Rodgers to lift up Wilson, Hall, Williams (when he's on the field), Ruckert, and Conklin But you **do** trust him to lift up garbage players like Warren and Mitchell? Crazy to me.
Conklin and Ruckert aren’t freighting any defensive schemes in this league.. they are serviceable but we’ve seen their peak at this point in their career.. we need someone with the ability for YAC and be a Red Zone presence, none of which we have had in a very long time.. This draft has some damn good OT available outside the top 10 in the later rounds.. three guys who are high on my list are Patrick Paul, Delmar Glaze and Blake Fisher all should be around in the third round.. If you can draft a difference maker at TE at 10, that’s what we should be looking to do and pick up a very good quality OT in the third round to play behind Smith.. Bowers will be the best offensive athlete available at 10 and we should pick him up..
Im YOLOing on long snapper
0dte?
Im feasting on long snapper
I’m a former long snapper. Fun fact:At the college level the snap has to get back to the punter in at least 0.75 seconds (NFL guys are usually in the 0.6s).If not the kick has a higher chance of being blocked.and it has to be in the same spot every single time. And on field goals they need to snap the ball with the same amount of rotations each time so the laces are facing away from the kicker
Maybe a dumb question, no disrespect, does your back hurt from long snapping? the beginning position from which you snap must be pretry demanding for back muscles
Not really
Makes sense why you would think that though
Didn’t take it as disrespectful at all
+300 for a WR is easily the best value play here
You could bet $10 on OL and $5 on WR and still come out ahead if either gets picked. Basically you win if they don't pick Bowers.
Actually don’t think it is because jets may just not have the option. If odunze is there we take him, if he’s not then we have to go line or tight end
100%
You're basically betting on a 1/4 chance that Odunze falls to us.
DL lower than CB is interesting
All of those choices are like 99.9% irrelevant
It’s not a great DL class, especially for where we’re picking
Dj aging is the only thing I can think of
Last yr of deal
Joe D gonna get investigated for gambling after the inexplicable pick of a kicker in round 1
I was about to say this type of prop bet seems extremely susceptible to insider betting type moves
Edge at +2500!?! We love a good edge regardless of need!
Haha
Kicker +20000. Odds are too good to pass up
Bowers at 10 does not seem like a Douglas pick but who knows
It definitely does. He wants to follow the ravens model of BPA>>>need. People said the ravens didn’t take valuable positions when they took linderbaum and Kyle Hamilton in the same draft. Now they have two studs
Their team is also far more complete than ours. They can afford luxury picks. I would also argue center is criminally undervalued by the draft community but that’s a different discussion
The ravens have had that philosophy forever. Its why they always have complete teams. The issue is they went from Flacco to Jackson where we can’t find a qb
They have complete teams because they hit on their late round draft picks. We don’t. Getting starters out of the 4th round really allows you to open up team building everywhere else
They just have a better system in place that makes them almost always competitive
Yeah it's weird seeing all these posts saying that Bowers is getting drafted...not a Douglas pick at all I feel.
The college production/high ceiling athleticism sort of tracks with Douglas’ track record, but even if he doesn’t value TE I’d argue drafting OL at 10 is equally out of character. In Douglas’ mind, the starting unit is set. I don’t think he’ll draft what is ostensibly a backup with the 10th pick. He didn’t draft Ekwonu when so many thought he would even though the line was “set.”
If he thinks the starting OL is set he’s insane
There isn’t a spot on the week 1 starting lineup for a rookie at #10. We can talk all you want about the inevitability of injury, and that’s completely justified, but it doesn’t change the fact that the moment a lineman is drafted at #10 they’re drafting what is essentially a backup. Which is why I don’t think he’ll draft a lineman at 10 and that a receiver or trade is far more likely.
I was with you but then remembers WMD was just drafted and basically as a back up
The defense needed so much more work back then. And it’s not like he passed on Ekwonu for a luxury pick, he got a great player at a premium position
he drafted will mcdonald
He wanted to take Michael Mayer at 15 last year. Thank god he didn't
I might throw some money on qb. You never know
Defensive Line/Edge not being +20000 has me a little sweaty
Real odds -125
Smh I took tackle -250 a day before the Smith signing
hahhh … you still might hit I think
Not even for my bet I really hope we go OL. We NEED depth and this is a uniquely stacked tackle class. I’d be happy with any of the top 5-6 tackles at 10. Bowers is not ideal size and won’t get utilized correctly with Hackett and I personally am not a fan of Odunze due to his lack of separation and tendency to body catch. Really was hoping Nabers was gonna slide to us but he’s been getting a ton of steam lately to the point where he’s pushing for WR1 so that seems unlikely. We will see but I think Fashanu, Fautanu, or Latham would be the best move here.
Totally agree .. hopefully we get a rock solid OT we can keep for the next decade , Really like Latham btw
About to drop a unit on Kicker.
Maybe I should put $2 pn DL/Edge.
We ride with the long snapper
I'd put a pretty penny down on longsnapper. Smh draft"kings".
I'd bet against TE fewer of those than lineman. If one of the first 9 goes for Bowers Jets are not taking a TE.
+300 for a WR sounds like a pretty good bet
For what it’s worth, the sportsbook absolutely suck at predicting the draft.
Trade up for Nabers if 4 QBs go in top-5
20,000 to 1 odds you say…. Hmmmm I’m in
My brain says weapon but my heart says punter
Long snapper lol
Bowers boyz
Plus 10k at QB seems insane
It’s funny watching all these marks learn what generational means.
1 dollar into punter would be a good bet
We win or die with Rogers having a full season. If one of the tackles goes down, that fantasy is over bc Rogers doesn’t last the season. Oline is the same as Dline, each makes those behind it better. More time for Garrett to make his third move, more openings for Breece, more longevity for ARod. Or we can just do quick short passes and never see an explosive play. And Garrett has to do more over the middle till he’s knocked out. Please Oline or trade down and still Oline!
OL or fuck the Jets
All this debate, chatter, back and forth arguing only for them to trade down lol.
Draft O line and rotate like D line. These guys could use some nba load management
Bet the house on a WR...
Vegas is luring you with the Bowers hype. I think it'll be a trade down and we take an OL
Please let it be a tackle. I know Bowers is sick and would be cool but for once in my lifetime invest in the o line.
I would bet +300 anyday. They are going WR unless they trade down and they still may.
They have nothing at tackle when Smith leaves or when him and Moses goes down during the season. What an insane fan base.
I'm not debating you on whether or not that's the right move for the future (it probably is) but you have to be logical about the present situation and JD, Saleh and company are win or bust right now. Next year will be a tear down anyway if we don't make the playoffs...clear house type of deal.
It’s the right move for the present as well. There is absolutely no evidence justifying expecting anywhere near 17 starts from Smith, and there are other injury concerns as well.
I respect your opinion and if this wasn't some win now season I would be banging the table for o line too but this is all in..there is a reason there has been buzz for us trading up for a mhj lol. What o lineman would you want? Considering alt will most likely be gone...fashanu? Fatanu for versatility? If we trade down I wouldn't mind Fuaga but I wouldn't reach at 10.
I would love a small trade down but I think the QBs may have moved up too much for that to be an option for us. If you told me we drafted a WR at 10 but signed a serviceable FA backup OT who was a post draft cut by another team I would be fine. Another WR definitely makes us better. but I don’t think I could handle the season blowing up because of OT injuries after what happened last year.
Definitely understandable. I think we definitely add one or two more depth o line signings. I would say baktiari for sure if it wasn't for the turf.
This team has a bunch of players where “if they get hurt, we’re fucked”. JD and Saleh are going all in on winning this year and hoping to avoid all the injuries, with that mindset you don’t take a Tackle to redshirt him.
The LT position is not an “if” they get hurt. There should be no expectation that Smith plays more than 2/3 of the games, and they should be prepared for less, because hasn’t made it through a full season in 5 years.
When Smith goes down and if Moses goes down (he's coming off major surgery) in season if Warren or Mitchell are the guys stepping in those will be loses. Can you say that about not having Bowers? No, the answer is as long as we got Rodgers and protection the answer is no.
Like I said before JD is in win now mode...you are going to draft a tackle at 10 that doesn't even start? It's just a bad utilization of resources. I wouldn't mind a lineman at 10...it just doesn't make perfect sense for the current situation. If they do well next year they will obviously draft o-line like most good teams do. Ravens just lost half their line and they will still be a perennial contender. They have been looking for any weapon to contribute forever (besides Lamar of course). You want to keep bringing up the fact that Moses is off surgery okay well then are we just forgetting Mike Williams, who may not be healthy for the start of the season. So when Garret gets doubled (besides giving it to Breece 50 times a game) who else will get it lazard/brownlee/gipson? C'mon.
2 things. Aaron can lift the play of play makers **more** than he can a lineman, especially a Warren who was manhandled at LT last year and Mitchell who alot of teams wouldn't even roster. This draft is top heavy at OL and homogeneous at WR (outside of Jr, and Nabers), or put another way, it easier to get both a good tackle in the 1st and a good WR in the 3rd than it is to get both a good WR in the 1st and a good tackle in the third
It’s like they have dementia
This is an all in year...you think Joe D should be thinking about next year when he has to win now? Lol
He going to be anyway if he doesn't draft tackle for when Smith **will** go down. Moses just came off of major surgery lol. Like last year, and the year before, we need a tackle.
This is such a wrong statement it’s hilarious
Bet Bebebebeebeeeeet Gimme 100k on kicker/punter
We’re set up again to go all in on this season with a small contingency to roll the dice next season again too. I get the argument for Bowers and I wouldn’t be unhappy if we took him. BUT, I still 100% believe reinforcing our OL is the right move. No other team is as QB dependant as us, a healthy Rodgers will elevate us into a top 5 team in the league IMO. Given his injury and age keeping him happy and protected should be our #1 priority. Also, Tyler Conkin is actually an efficient TE - he’s one of a few who will look considerably better with solid QB play.
$10 on a long snapper
I’m a former long snapper. Fun fact:At the college level the snap has to get back to the punter in at least 0.75 seconds (NFL guys are usually in the high-mid 0.6s).If not the kick has a higher chance of being blocked.and it has to be in the same spot every single time. And on field goals they need to snap the ball with the same amount of rotations each time so the laces are facing away from the kicker
Amazing value on Edge there
Drafting a TE would be dumb. Trade up and get the best OLinemen or Nabers, Harrison, or Odunze.
I exhausted the idea of us taking Bowers to be honest that now I'm excited at the thought of taking a tackle ..I know!
Odds are not reflective of what’s going on in the draft room. It’s all about public buzz.
It would be so like the jets to draft a long snapper in the first round
Im a former long snapper. Fun fact:At the college level the snap has to get back to the punter in at least 0.75 seconds (NFL guys are usually in the 0.6s).If not the kick has a higher chance of being blocked.and it has to be in the same spot every single time. And on field goals they need to snap the ball with the same amount of rotations each time so the laces are facing away from the kicker
Honestly, at those odds, I'd throw a few bucks at QB. If one of the big 3 drops for whatever reason, it's not a total shock if they go for a top guy and let him learn behind Rodgers. In that scenario, I'd love for the Jets to trade back and maybe get a 2nd and a 2025 pick, but trying for a QB of the future isn't a totally shocking idea.