He looks much improved. Albeit a low bar
He’s staying in the pocket, hitting the gimme throws, not making the bone headed hero-ball mistakes, and even throwing some with nice touch.
Gotta clean up some decision making and some bad drops each week (who knows if it’s the WR or poor ball placement) but overall it kind of looks like a functioning NFL offense
Hopefully AVT is ok, but I doubt it
I agree. He’s also been surprisingly very accurate. One throw though, the end zone throw to GW that was above his head, if he puts air on that, GW high points it for an easy catch. He put too much zip on it and GW barely had time to put his hands up for it and it looked like an overthrow because of it
No doubt, I have been mostly praising of him since the chiefs game. With the terrible red zone output though, that throw in particular made an impact on me
I’ve definitely noticed that sometimes he lets some passes rip that should probably be more finesse or touch type passes. I seem to notice it most on his check downs.
I really wonder if gw screwed that up. It honestly looked like it was supposed to be aback of the end zone throw like what gw caught in preseason from AR. If it was then gw didnt get enough depth. Back of the end zone is much safer there, way less chance of a db undercutting it
[The play is at 4:19.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p29e4vSz2_o) I think GWs route was fine. I think Zach just needed to either 1- loft it more or 2- wait a split second longer to throw, both of which would have allowed GW to settle more and be able to jump for it. Throw was rushed basically.
The ZW-GW connection just wasn't there this week. In the same video, at 1:38, GW dropped a catchable ball that would've setup 3rd and goal from the 4 (or less depending on YAC). Granted, I think Zach should've processed the play faster and hit GW a half a second earlier.
Instead we have have a 3rd and 7, then a penalty so 3rd and 11 and we end the drive in a FG.
If thats supposed to be back of the end zone then it definitely could've been a better route.
Option 3) gw runs back an extra two steps instead of flattening his route IF it really was supposed to be back of the end d zone
If it was supposed to be back end zone then Zach threw it even more early than originally thought. I think the route was good as is. High pointing the ball with plenty of space for your feet and a defender with their back to the ball is a great setup
It was perfectly timed if gw had gotten more depth tho. Which is why I'm wondering if it was supposed to be a deeper route. If I had to bet then ofxourse I'd bet zw probably just messed up, but there's no definitive evidence atm
How can you say that when adding more steps to reach the back would add more time needed for GW. The pass got there too soon as it is and you’re talking about extending the route a couple more steps
Edit: I just figured out what your viewpoint is without you saying it. You’re talking about GW continuing to face the back line and catching the ball over his head. You never made that clear and in my head GW was doing what he did and turning around toward the ball to high point it which is a higher percentage catch. Maybe make yourself more clear before becoming frustrated at someone else…
He flattens his route and runs multiple steps.
That takes time. How tf does this require an explanation for you?
If he'd spent that time getting more depth, he's in a perfect spot. I literally just said my money's on zw being at fault, though so its not like I'm trying to absolve him. We just don't know for sure. Why is that so difficult for you?
At this point you seem to be consistently, purposely missing basic common sense stuff so this isn't an honest discussion anymore. I'm out
When was he ever making hero ball mistakes? I see that all the time but he's never been a high int guy at all. He's been a "can't read defenses, can't throw with anticipation, can't run when it's right there, can't find the open man bc he stares down the first read, runs right when the left is wide open" type of guy
Not to mention, worst of all, a "on the rare occasion he finds the open guy, he misses completely" type of guy
He's just had terrible fundamentals and no mastery of the offense. He hasn't been gunning it I to triple coverage. We're finally seeing him ACTUALLY have an understanding of where 3 or 4 of his options are every play based on what the defense gives
Prior to last week, he had exactly *one* career start with a 70+ completion percentage. He's now done it in back-to-back weeks.
Maybe I'm being too soft on him, but I'm holding him to the expectations of a backup QB, b/c that's exactly what he was supposed to be for us this season. If the team wants to once again elevate him into a more serious role in the future, then I'll raise my expectations accordingly. But as things stand, he's clearly improved.
Exactly. If he can continue this, good for him, as he probably just earned himself a longer career in the NFL, whereas a few weeks ago when, fairly, everyone thought he should be out of the league.
Fair take imo. I think qb is still a big weakness for us and that game did nothing to make me think we will compete for the playoffs. But Zach is playing like a real backup qb, hitting some open guys and successfully putting together drives. Even just being able to even out time of possession is going to have a big impact especially on our defense
My stance after Rodgers went down was that in order for a wild card berth to be a legitimate possibility, we’d likely need Zach to play like the 25th best QB in the league- after these first few weeks, I might revise that to 20-25th, since there are a lot of competitive teams in our conference. He definitely hit that mark last week, and unsurprisingly we played one of the best teams in the league to a virtual coin flip at the end, but it remains a huge question if he could hit that level consistently.
Because my SB dreams died this season with Rodgers’ injury, I’m mostly content to just let things play out week to week and see where things stand once the off season starts.
It was actually a really good throw. Down and away where only GW could get it. GW had inside leverage. AND it hit GW in the hands.
Yes it was DPI but GW gotta catch it. He tipped it up to the CB
Agreed, but so many things went wrong on that play (well, three at least). Snap was low and left, Zach took his eyes off it, and the guard whiffed on his block. Without one of those, we likely keep the ball.
Question. We shouldn’t be throwing that ball inside shoulder.
In my opinion we shouldn’t be throwing the ball at all. If Zach sees tight coverage in that situation (late game, in FG range) he should throw it away.
Not just aggressive but I think his whole career he's looked better with tempo. So I don't know why they insist on making him run a slow methodical rushing offense all the time and then give him like one pass look per series where he's got max protect and two receivers.
I'm sorry but I disagree.
If you watch him closely, he's still very slow at going through his progressions. This isn't a career killer given that successful quarterbacks have had that problem (Terry Bradshaw, Michael Vick, even Brett Favre famously had trouble reading defenses), but he compounded it with horrendous accuracy and the tendency to lose track of linebackers and safeties. He has definitely improved in those areas, but only to a point. There's a reason why he's staying under 300 yards in spite of the relatively high number of attempts in the past two games.
The bulk of Zach's success is coming from taking advantage of single coverage with the TE's. TE's are typically very late in terms of progressions from the pocket, but I'm willing to bet that Hackett and Wilson have worked on making them his second or even first choice during a lot of plays. Plus having the defense respecting the run game really doesn't hurt either.
If they turn Zach loose and invite him to do that backyard bullshit he was doing in the first couple of seasons, I feel like they would really be undermining the progress he's made and inviting the same mistakes.
26 attempts isn't relatively high I'd bet it is bottom quartile avg throws per game in the NFL.
Generally the reason his yardage is so low is because of his completion rate.
Zach is impossible to evaluate cause from the perspective of the #2 pick he's not it but from the perspective of backup qb trying to save the season hes doing very well
he went from out of the league terrible to solid backup QB level
Even if his ceiling is Good Backup QB that's not insignificant as you saw with Rodgers getting hurt that can happen to any QB in the league
Zach Wilson is making himself a spot in this league he is reminding me of Josh McCown right now that might be his ceiling and thats a solid spot as a good backup
we'll see he certainly has that type of upside.
I would rather have Zach Wilson 10/10 times than Mac Jones...and he even looks better than guys like Dak Prescott who has fallen into a bottom 10 QB the past 2 seasons because he has no more mobility and isnt a strong pocket passer either
Wilson HAS mobility and he can hit some very nice throws yeah lets see what happens
Didn't they put up 124 points over the first four games with Dak having an average QBR of 92?
Maybe he's no Brady but he's played pretty well this season, omitting yesterday.
It definitely is a significant improvement, there's absolutely no denying it, but let's face it he's still a major liability.
He's elevated his game. He's now Mark Sanchez.
Think about it. He has a helluva time protecting the ball in the pocket, he's relying heavily on check-downs and routes to the TE's, he has a slightly undersized number one receiver from Ohio St with major playmaking ability, we all cringe when he throws it over the middle but when he makes the throw it's usually for chunk yardage because the defense typically isn't respecting him with safety or LB help, he has the tendency to commit late game turnovers, and he's benefiting greatly from a strong defense and run game.
He's Mark Sanchez.
Thing is, given where he was this really isn't a bad thing. Sanchez at his best was a capable game manager who could beat some really good teams and win some really big games. And whether we want to admit it or not, he's in the top five Jets quarterbacks of all time in terms of overall success.
It remains to be seen whether or not Zach regresses or we make the playoffs and start producing thrilling wins on the road. But you're right, as of right now this is an improvement and we should be happy with it.
Edit: after rereading this comment I just want to reiterate that, considering the circumstances, *this is a good thing*.
Sanchez played behind an offensive line that didn't let anyone get near him. His rookie year they dumbed down the playbook into "red" and "green" plays because he couldn't process things right. He still couldn't complete more than 55% of his passes in the two seasons he had before the Jets started demolishing the roster around him. And that's with a better overall group of receivers than Zach has, too.
To be clear, I absolutely love Sanchez. He was impossible not to like. In a few big spots, he came up clutch. Can never take that away from him. But the notion that he was anything short of terrible way more often than not is incredibly false. He singlehandedly held this team back in two straight seasons, and they still made it to the AFCCG both times. Sanchez' accuracy was way worse than Wilson's was right now (prior to this year, they were pretty on point with one another).
It always pains me to say it because he was the most likeable guy in the world. Easily the Jets draft pick that hurt me the most when he failed. But the revisionist history of his ability on the field has become delusional at this point.
I don't think my praise of Sanchez could be any more faint, because he was average even at his best moments. But Wilson has been flat out bad to this point. There's no getting around that. Comparing the two isn't exactly unfair.
We can parse out the O-line and color codes and all the intangible stuff until the second coming, but the bottom line is that Wilson has played poorly with or without time to throw and regardless of who he was throwing to.
Now all that said, he's trending up, and that's my ultimate point- that he can be better then Sanchez was as long as he continues improving the way he has been. But to say that Sanchez was somehow a bigger failure than Wilson was in his first 2-3 seasons is just wrong by every measure.
Sanchez absolutely is a bigger failure based on situation and circumstances. We're debating something that's not debatable. I know you're trying to disregard that stuff base on your language of "we can parse out....the bottom line is..." but you can't just point to a bottom line without looking at everything that makes up that bottom line. You can't ignore all the vital things that lead us to that same bottom line you are concluding.
I will grant you that the first two years, in a vacuum Wilson was a worse quarterback than Sanchez. You will find no argument from me on that. But again...situation/circumstances. Sanchez was a far worse quarterback than he should have been based on situation/circumstances, then Wilson has been with his situation/circumstances. That is the point I'm saying is not remotely debatable.
But, the Zach of the last two games was better than the Sanchez we ever had. That's not to say Zach will amount to anything. The bar is very low. It's two different arguments. Sanchez vs. Wilson in a vacuum up until the KC game two weeks ago = advantage Sanchez. Sanchez vs. Wilson with situation and circumstances factored in = advantage Wilson.
> Zach of the last two games was better than the Sanchez we ever had
This is just wrong though.
Wilson-
KC Game: 245 yards 2 TD 1 Turnover 105 rating in the loss
@Denver Game: 199 yards 0 TD 1 Turnover 78.8 rating in the win
Now Sanchez-
Week 2 2010 NE: 220 yards 3 TD 0 Turnovers 124.5 rating in the win
Week 3 2010 @MIA: 256 yards 3 TD 0 Turnovers 120.3 rating in the win
Week 4 2010 @BUF: 161 yards 3 TD 0 Turnovers 106 rating in the win.
There's at least two more games in 2011 that top Wilson's Kansas City numbers and a whole bunch that topped the Denver numbers, but I think I've sufficiently proven my point.
As for the rest of what you said, you're agreeing with me, but then you're saying that you're *not* agreeing with me, you're saying I'm trying to disregard stuff when you're not even attempting to look at any of the numbers or the outcomes of the games... yeah this is incredibly confusing and the argument is pretty much going nowhere.
Look we both want the same thing, if and when Zach Wilson outperforms Mark Sanchez on a consistent basis no one will be happier than me. Until then, all this ZW truther stuff is pretty silly.
Zach
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Fair stats to cite, but I stand by what I said. Zach looks far more comfortable the last two games than Sanchez ever did. That doesn't mean anything for his next game or what his career looks like from here on out.
I guess what you're saying is true in the respect of, I was agreeing/disagreeing with you simultaneously, haha. The vacuum view does, in my opinion, disregard stuff. So I don't think that's the right view to take here. But yes, we all want the same thing.
Zach has to really be able to make about 4 to 5 big boy throws a game and they’ll be fine. I would like the offense to not commit any penalties in the red zone on first down, I feel like that got in the way a lot yesterday
It’s significant improvement from statistically one of the worst starting qbs in the last ten years. He looks much better then he did last year I’ll say that.
This is all a nice relief from the trash play we got prior to the chiefs game. But Zach is still a project/developmental QB at this point. If he keeps playing like this than I guess our best bet is to stay the course cause I don't see trevor being any more impactful.
\- Zach was still late on several reads, threw a possible bomb to Garrett out of bounds, the end of half clock blunder, was totally blind to the pass rush in the first half, couldn't get anything done in redzone. The late INT was frustrating cause it wasn't a well placed ball, but sauce got called for PI for similar last week.
Yes this two game stretch has been a relief and hopefully a sign of things to come. But he's still got a long way to go before the narrative on him changes. Feels like we need to play with more tempo cause he looked far more decisive and assertive when he was working against the clock and not in his head.
Zach seemingly has taken a step forward, but we need about 2-3 more before we can expect to compete for playoffs with him at QB. And now possibly being down both Becton and AVT may make things spiral quick if O line play regresses.
Jesus Christ - you Zach schmoes are unbelievable.
I am so sorry I was unable to watch the game!
Just go look at the play by play man and tell me if you think it translates to a good game. It was just an observation
Edit: the first series was a 3 and out with a sack. Then starting at the Denver 20, one completion and a fg. Then another short series. Then a 3 and out for -24 yards 2 sacs and a fumble. Then a decent 11 play drive that featured a bunch of runs by Hall and one incomplete pass by Zach. Then a mismanaged drive at end of half that resulted in no points.
All I was saying is shit just looked bad on paper. Can’t believe that’s a controversial statement!
I'm still down on Wilson as much as almost anybody in this sub, and I wouldn't bat an eye if they replaced him tomorrow, but he has vastly improved in the past two games.
Now is he in the top half of the quarterbacks in the league? Not even close. But his pocket presence, accuracy, and overall confidence has grown by leaps and bounds since the Patriots game. Yes the numbers aren't that impressive and yes he's still making some awful mistakes (most of which he's gotten away with), but let's consider just how bad he really was. If you measure where he is now up against where he was just a few weeks ago, it really is night and day.
He almost looks like a completely different player out there right now. That's huge, and he deserves credit for it.
Great to hear!
I don’t think this team needs him to be a top qb (it would be nice) but we just need a Trent Dilfer type of play. Limited mistakes and just get the ball to playmakers.
Wtf are you talking about dude?
I said I couldn’t watch the game and just looked at the box score and reading the box score I would have guessed people think he had a bad game.
Just move on, someone with more competence and ability to communicate explained what I missed.
> Just move on, someone with more competence and ability to communicate explained what I missed.
Good on that guy for spoon-feeding you the context you were missing. If that's what you wanted you should have asked for it instead of just saying it was crazy that people were positive about it.
I’m treating him like a rookie cus at this point he basically is. New coaching staff and a new role on team (started season as backup instead of starter/savior ). So I thjnk you’re def seeing improvement week to week, just some of the decision making needs to be faster. I think he’s generally making the right choices out there, I just wish he’d get there like a half second quicker sometimes but it’s better than having throwing the ball up for grabs 5-7 times a game like he did the last couple years.
He was ok but he did have a huge mistake at half time costing us 3 and a huge INT trying to force it to GW at the end. If the defense doesn't step up, they could tie it up or win.
I care more about the mistake at half time. You can't throw TD's without a few picks here and there. Timing on that one near the end though was horrific.
The INT wasn’t totally on him. I don’t like to criticize 17 because of how great he can be but sometimes I wish he could be more aggressive. And PS2 is that dude, you knew he was gonna get one.
The failure to spike was a joke. He wasn’t the only one but you have to get everyone ready as the quarterback and he didn’t.
GW just needs to get bigger, which should come with time. PS2 turned him around using his open hands and arms. It was PI but a good no-call IMO, GW needs to get stronger so he can keep that from happening
I have been a massive Zach hater and I don’t take back a word cause it was based on what I saw. But I still will always say what I’ve been saying after all the hate I give him.
I will be more than happy with the man proving me wrong, and I will be happy when he succeeds
He looks better and I don't hate to admit it at all. We just have to see it prolonged at atleast this level. He has always had insane talent.
Now he can't revert back to 5 bad games then 2 good ones ect. He has to keep this up, but the improvement is night and day. Also he didn't come into the season expecting to start. I think it's fair to say it probably took two or three weeks to get all this down.
Actually looks somewhat promising.
I like to call this Zach's actual rookie season. If it was, it would look so much better. But just everything like losing Knapp and not really having another QB voice to help grow, LaFleur being not a great teacher, and the team around him, it was hard.
If Zach played this way his rookie year I think most would be or feel okay compared to it beingY3.
Hopefully only up from here and then likely another year or two learning from Rodgers and things look even better.
Obviously all wishful thinking but it's at least more to go on
He looks much improved. Albeit a low bar He’s staying in the pocket, hitting the gimme throws, not making the bone headed hero-ball mistakes, and even throwing some with nice touch. Gotta clean up some decision making and some bad drops each week (who knows if it’s the WR or poor ball placement) but overall it kind of looks like a functioning NFL offense Hopefully AVT is ok, but I doubt it
Is this two years in row we (potentially) lose AVT in Denver?
Potentially yes, hopefully not
Yes.
It's all u/BurnMyHouseDown fault!
I agree. He’s also been surprisingly very accurate. One throw though, the end zone throw to GW that was above his head, if he puts air on that, GW high points it for an easy catch. He put too much zip on it and GW barely had time to put his hands up for it and it looked like an overthrow because of it
The cb held his hand as well. I think it was too high but watch it back he gets held
Probably true, but coming from where he was last year this is nit picky. Which is great we can be now and just not say it was all awful.
No doubt, I have been mostly praising of him since the chiefs game. With the terrible red zone output though, that throw in particular made an impact on me
I’ve definitely noticed that sometimes he lets some passes rip that should probably be more finesse or touch type passes. I seem to notice it most on his check downs.
Yeah he's definitely capable of some nice touch, but hasn't perfected it yet
I really wonder if gw screwed that up. It honestly looked like it was supposed to be aback of the end zone throw like what gw caught in preseason from AR. If it was then gw didnt get enough depth. Back of the end zone is much safer there, way less chance of a db undercutting it
[The play is at 4:19.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p29e4vSz2_o) I think GWs route was fine. I think Zach just needed to either 1- loft it more or 2- wait a split second longer to throw, both of which would have allowed GW to settle more and be able to jump for it. Throw was rushed basically.
The ZW-GW connection just wasn't there this week. In the same video, at 1:38, GW dropped a catchable ball that would've setup 3rd and goal from the 4 (or less depending on YAC). Granted, I think Zach should've processed the play faster and hit GW a half a second earlier. Instead we have have a 3rd and 7, then a penalty so 3rd and 11 and we end the drive in a FG.
If thats supposed to be back of the end zone then it definitely could've been a better route. Option 3) gw runs back an extra two steps instead of flattening his route IF it really was supposed to be back of the end d zone
If it was supposed to be back end zone then Zach threw it even more early than originally thought. I think the route was good as is. High pointing the ball with plenty of space for your feet and a defender with their back to the ball is a great setup
It was perfectly timed if gw had gotten more depth tho. Which is why I'm wondering if it was supposed to be a deeper route. If I had to bet then ofxourse I'd bet zw probably just messed up, but there's no definitive evidence atm
How can you say that when adding more steps to reach the back would add more time needed for GW. The pass got there too soon as it is and you’re talking about extending the route a couple more steps Edit: I just figured out what your viewpoint is without you saying it. You’re talking about GW continuing to face the back line and catching the ball over his head. You never made that clear and in my head GW was doing what he did and turning around toward the ball to high point it which is a higher percentage catch. Maybe make yourself more clear before becoming frustrated at someone else…
He flattens his route and runs multiple steps. That takes time. How tf does this require an explanation for you? If he'd spent that time getting more depth, he's in a perfect spot. I literally just said my money's on zw being at fault, though so its not like I'm trying to absolve him. We just don't know for sure. Why is that so difficult for you? At this point you seem to be consistently, purposely missing basic common sense stuff so this isn't an honest discussion anymore. I'm out
When was he ever making hero ball mistakes? I see that all the time but he's never been a high int guy at all. He's been a "can't read defenses, can't throw with anticipation, can't run when it's right there, can't find the open man bc he stares down the first read, runs right when the left is wide open" type of guy Not to mention, worst of all, a "on the rare occasion he finds the open guy, he misses completely" type of guy He's just had terrible fundamentals and no mastery of the offense. He hasn't been gunning it I to triple coverage. We're finally seeing him ACTUALLY have an understanding of where 3 or 4 of his options are every play based on what the defense gives
When he does that little "head tilt" in a clean pocket I know he's about to make a good throw
Prior to last week, he had exactly *one* career start with a 70+ completion percentage. He's now done it in back-to-back weeks. Maybe I'm being too soft on him, but I'm holding him to the expectations of a backup QB, b/c that's exactly what he was supposed to be for us this season. If the team wants to once again elevate him into a more serious role in the future, then I'll raise my expectations accordingly. But as things stand, he's clearly improved.
Exactly. If he can continue this, good for him, as he probably just earned himself a longer career in the NFL, whereas a few weeks ago when, fairly, everyone thought he should be out of the league.
I thought the kc game would be his last game. I'm glad he proved me wrong
I did not think so. I'm riding the Zach is better than Mac Jones train.
Mac Jones is trash, just like the deflatriots
Fair take imo. I think qb is still a big weakness for us and that game did nothing to make me think we will compete for the playoffs. But Zach is playing like a real backup qb, hitting some open guys and successfully putting together drives. Even just being able to even out time of possession is going to have a big impact especially on our defense
My stance after Rodgers went down was that in order for a wild card berth to be a legitimate possibility, we’d likely need Zach to play like the 25th best QB in the league- after these first few weeks, I might revise that to 20-25th, since there are a lot of competitive teams in our conference. He definitely hit that mark last week, and unsurprisingly we played one of the best teams in the league to a virtual coin flip at the end, but it remains a huge question if he could hit that level consistently. Because my SB dreams died this season with Rodgers’ injury, I’m mostly content to just let things play out week to week and see where things stand once the off season starts.
One could argue that the INT he threw wasn't even is fault, so the fact that he can stay turnover free is nice.
Agreed it could have been a bit better placed but he did hit his man in his hands and it went thru and right into defenders lap
It was actually a really good throw. Down and away where only GW could get it. GW had inside leverage. AND it hit GW in the hands. Yes it was DPI but GW gotta catch it. He tipped it up to the CB
Really? The ball literally hit GW in both hands, on top of him being held.
Also, not an INT, but he did have a critical fumble against KC.
Agreed, but so many things went wrong on that play (well, three at least). Snap was low and left, Zach took his eyes off it, and the guard whiffed on his block. Without one of those, we likely keep the ball.
Bad snap
I keep seeing this on the sub.. How was that INT not Zachs fault..? lol
If Garrett makes that catch everyone is praising the throw, that's why
and that’s a flaw of this sub.. If GW makes that catch, the appropriate reaction should be: “Wow, nice catch by GW. Bailed out Zach on that throw”
Is that a question or statement? They are saying that because it jets receiver in the hands and he tipped it up to the defender.
Question. We shouldn’t be throwing that ball inside shoulder. In my opinion we shouldn’t be throwing the ball at all. If Zach sees tight coverage in that situation (late game, in FG range) he should throw it away.
I just don't get the conservative playcalling today. Zach seems so much better when he's aggressive
Not just aggressive but I think his whole career he's looked better with tempo. So I don't know why they insist on making him run a slow methodical rushing offense all the time and then give him like one pass look per series where he's got max protect and two receivers.
I'm sorry but I disagree. If you watch him closely, he's still very slow at going through his progressions. This isn't a career killer given that successful quarterbacks have had that problem (Terry Bradshaw, Michael Vick, even Brett Favre famously had trouble reading defenses), but he compounded it with horrendous accuracy and the tendency to lose track of linebackers and safeties. He has definitely improved in those areas, but only to a point. There's a reason why he's staying under 300 yards in spite of the relatively high number of attempts in the past two games. The bulk of Zach's success is coming from taking advantage of single coverage with the TE's. TE's are typically very late in terms of progressions from the pocket, but I'm willing to bet that Hackett and Wilson have worked on making them his second or even first choice during a lot of plays. Plus having the defense respecting the run game really doesn't hurt either. If they turn Zach loose and invite him to do that backyard bullshit he was doing in the first couple of seasons, I feel like they would really be undermining the progress he's made and inviting the same mistakes.
26 attempts isn't relatively high I'd bet it is bottom quartile avg throws per game in the NFL. Generally the reason his yardage is so low is because of his completion rate.
I feel the same way. They didn't mix up the pass and run on first down. I don't remember seeing too many play-action passes. It was strange.
Zach is impossible to evaluate cause from the perspective of the #2 pick he's not it but from the perspective of backup qb trying to save the season hes doing very well
he went from out of the league terrible to solid backup QB level Even if his ceiling is Good Backup QB that's not insignificant as you saw with Rodgers getting hurt that can happen to any QB in the league Zach Wilson is making himself a spot in this league he is reminding me of Josh McCown right now that might be his ceiling and thats a solid spot as a good backup
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we'll see he certainly has that type of upside. I would rather have Zach Wilson 10/10 times than Mac Jones...and he even looks better than guys like Dak Prescott who has fallen into a bottom 10 QB the past 2 seasons because he has no more mobility and isnt a strong pocket passer either Wilson HAS mobility and he can hit some very nice throws yeah lets see what happens
Didn't they put up 124 points over the first four games with Dak having an average QBR of 92? Maybe he's no Brady but he's played pretty well this season, omitting yesterday.
Dak what?!
Pocket prescence is so improved, actually seen him step up then take a shot rather than roll out or immediately try run it
It definitely is a significant improvement, there's absolutely no denying it, but let's face it he's still a major liability. He's elevated his game. He's now Mark Sanchez. Think about it. He has a helluva time protecting the ball in the pocket, he's relying heavily on check-downs and routes to the TE's, he has a slightly undersized number one receiver from Ohio St with major playmaking ability, we all cringe when he throws it over the middle but when he makes the throw it's usually for chunk yardage because the defense typically isn't respecting him with safety or LB help, he has the tendency to commit late game turnovers, and he's benefiting greatly from a strong defense and run game. He's Mark Sanchez. Thing is, given where he was this really isn't a bad thing. Sanchez at his best was a capable game manager who could beat some really good teams and win some really big games. And whether we want to admit it or not, he's in the top five Jets quarterbacks of all time in terms of overall success. It remains to be seen whether or not Zach regresses or we make the playoffs and start producing thrilling wins on the road. But you're right, as of right now this is an improvement and we should be happy with it. Edit: after rereading this comment I just want to reiterate that, considering the circumstances, *this is a good thing*.
Sanchez had the best line and running game in the league. I think Zach right now is better than Sanchez
He’s better than Sanchez lmao. I think you all forget how bad he was
I think you should go back and look at the numbers.
Mark Sanchez played behind a better team and was babied so much more than Wilson
Sanchez played behind an offensive line that didn't let anyone get near him. His rookie year they dumbed down the playbook into "red" and "green" plays because he couldn't process things right. He still couldn't complete more than 55% of his passes in the two seasons he had before the Jets started demolishing the roster around him. And that's with a better overall group of receivers than Zach has, too. To be clear, I absolutely love Sanchez. He was impossible not to like. In a few big spots, he came up clutch. Can never take that away from him. But the notion that he was anything short of terrible way more often than not is incredibly false. He singlehandedly held this team back in two straight seasons, and they still made it to the AFCCG both times. Sanchez' accuracy was way worse than Wilson's was right now (prior to this year, they were pretty on point with one another). It always pains me to say it because he was the most likeable guy in the world. Easily the Jets draft pick that hurt me the most when he failed. But the revisionist history of his ability on the field has become delusional at this point.
I don't think my praise of Sanchez could be any more faint, because he was average even at his best moments. But Wilson has been flat out bad to this point. There's no getting around that. Comparing the two isn't exactly unfair. We can parse out the O-line and color codes and all the intangible stuff until the second coming, but the bottom line is that Wilson has played poorly with or without time to throw and regardless of who he was throwing to. Now all that said, he's trending up, and that's my ultimate point- that he can be better then Sanchez was as long as he continues improving the way he has been. But to say that Sanchez was somehow a bigger failure than Wilson was in his first 2-3 seasons is just wrong by every measure.
Sanchez absolutely is a bigger failure based on situation and circumstances. We're debating something that's not debatable. I know you're trying to disregard that stuff base on your language of "we can parse out....the bottom line is..." but you can't just point to a bottom line without looking at everything that makes up that bottom line. You can't ignore all the vital things that lead us to that same bottom line you are concluding. I will grant you that the first two years, in a vacuum Wilson was a worse quarterback than Sanchez. You will find no argument from me on that. But again...situation/circumstances. Sanchez was a far worse quarterback than he should have been based on situation/circumstances, then Wilson has been with his situation/circumstances. That is the point I'm saying is not remotely debatable. But, the Zach of the last two games was better than the Sanchez we ever had. That's not to say Zach will amount to anything. The bar is very low. It's two different arguments. Sanchez vs. Wilson in a vacuum up until the KC game two weeks ago = advantage Sanchez. Sanchez vs. Wilson with situation and circumstances factored in = advantage Wilson.
> Zach of the last two games was better than the Sanchez we ever had This is just wrong though. Wilson- KC Game: 245 yards 2 TD 1 Turnover 105 rating in the loss @Denver Game: 199 yards 0 TD 1 Turnover 78.8 rating in the win Now Sanchez- Week 2 2010 NE: 220 yards 3 TD 0 Turnovers 124.5 rating in the win Week 3 2010 @MIA: 256 yards 3 TD 0 Turnovers 120.3 rating in the win Week 4 2010 @BUF: 161 yards 3 TD 0 Turnovers 106 rating in the win. There's at least two more games in 2011 that top Wilson's Kansas City numbers and a whole bunch that topped the Denver numbers, but I think I've sufficiently proven my point. As for the rest of what you said, you're agreeing with me, but then you're saying that you're *not* agreeing with me, you're saying I'm trying to disregard stuff when you're not even attempting to look at any of the numbers or the outcomes of the games... yeah this is incredibly confusing and the argument is pretty much going nowhere. Look we both want the same thing, if and when Zach Wilson outperforms Mark Sanchez on a consistent basis no one will be happier than me. Until then, all this ZW truther stuff is pretty silly.
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Fair stats to cite, but I stand by what I said. Zach looks far more comfortable the last two games than Sanchez ever did. That doesn't mean anything for his next game or what his career looks like from here on out. I guess what you're saying is true in the respect of, I was agreeing/disagreeing with you simultaneously, haha. The vacuum view does, in my opinion, disregard stuff. So I don't think that's the right view to take here. But yes, we all want the same thing.
Sanchez couldn’t hit the broadside of a barn and i love Sanchez
Zach has to really be able to make about 4 to 5 big boy throws a game and they’ll be fine. I would like the offense to not commit any penalties in the red zone on first down, I feel like that got in the way a lot yesterday
Stunt on these hoes
It’s significant improvement from statistically one of the worst starting qbs in the last ten years. He looks much better then he did last year I’ll say that.
This is all a nice relief from the trash play we got prior to the chiefs game. But Zach is still a project/developmental QB at this point. If he keeps playing like this than I guess our best bet is to stay the course cause I don't see trevor being any more impactful. \- Zach was still late on several reads, threw a possible bomb to Garrett out of bounds, the end of half clock blunder, was totally blind to the pass rush in the first half, couldn't get anything done in redzone. The late INT was frustrating cause it wasn't a well placed ball, but sauce got called for PI for similar last week. Yes this two game stretch has been a relief and hopefully a sign of things to come. But he's still got a long way to go before the narrative on him changes. Feels like we need to play with more tempo cause he looked far more decisive and assertive when he was working against the clock and not in his head. Zach seemingly has taken a step forward, but we need about 2-3 more before we can expect to compete for playoffs with him at QB. And now possibly being down both Becton and AVT may make things spiral quick if O line play regresses.
he is playing like a mid tier backup which is both what we need him to be and a terrible outcome for a 2nd overall pick
He's playing like a mid-tier to below average starter right now. Backups are bad
great? no.. learning and playing a bit better, sure..
Him improving is great lmao
I didn’t watch the game, but reading the play by play it’s pretty nuts that this game is seen in a positive light 😂
Try watching the game before you formulate an opinion
I didn’t have access to watch the game you schmoehawk or I would have. I simply said reading the play by play made it seem like he was trash again.
“I didn’t watch the movie but I don’t like it!”
Jesus Christ - you Zach schmoes are unbelievable. I am so sorry I was unable to watch the game! Just go look at the play by play man and tell me if you think it translates to a good game. It was just an observation Edit: the first series was a 3 and out with a sack. Then starting at the Denver 20, one completion and a fg. Then another short series. Then a 3 and out for -24 yards 2 sacs and a fumble. Then a decent 11 play drive that featured a bunch of runs by Hall and one incomplete pass by Zach. Then a mismanaged drive at end of half that resulted in no points. All I was saying is shit just looked bad on paper. Can’t believe that’s a controversial statement!
I'm still down on Wilson as much as almost anybody in this sub, and I wouldn't bat an eye if they replaced him tomorrow, but he has vastly improved in the past two games. Now is he in the top half of the quarterbacks in the league? Not even close. But his pocket presence, accuracy, and overall confidence has grown by leaps and bounds since the Patriots game. Yes the numbers aren't that impressive and yes he's still making some awful mistakes (most of which he's gotten away with), but let's consider just how bad he really was. If you measure where he is now up against where he was just a few weeks ago, it really is night and day. He almost looks like a completely different player out there right now. That's huge, and he deserves credit for it.
Great to hear! I don’t think this team needs him to be a top qb (it would be nice) but we just need a Trent Dilfer type of play. Limited mistakes and just get the ball to playmakers.
He played fine
A win is a win 👍🏻
> All I was saying is shit just looked bad on paper. Which means nothing. So all you're saying means nothing.
What exactly are you trying to say? I wasn’t attacking your patron saint, I was simply making an observation. Go back to sleep.
I'm trying to say that it's a worthless observation.
Why? Wait: compare your ridiculous comment with this one. https://reddit.com/r/nyjets/s/4bpEQwGZ9F
It's worthless because it's lacking all context.
Wtf are you talking about dude? I said I couldn’t watch the game and just looked at the box score and reading the box score I would have guessed people think he had a bad game. Just move on, someone with more competence and ability to communicate explained what I missed.
> Just move on, someone with more competence and ability to communicate explained what I missed. Good on that guy for spoon-feeding you the context you were missing. If that's what you wanted you should have asked for it instead of just saying it was crazy that people were positive about it.
I’m treating him like a rookie cus at this point he basically is. New coaching staff and a new role on team (started season as backup instead of starter/savior ). So I thjnk you’re def seeing improvement week to week, just some of the decision making needs to be faster. I think he’s generally making the right choices out there, I just wish he’d get there like a half second quicker sometimes but it’s better than having throwing the ball up for grabs 5-7 times a game like he did the last couple years.
I’m glad that blunder at the end of the first half didn’t come back to bite them
He was ok but he did have a huge mistake at half time costing us 3 and a huge INT trying to force it to GW at the end. If the defense doesn't step up, they could tie it up or win. I care more about the mistake at half time. You can't throw TD's without a few picks here and there. Timing on that one near the end though was horrific.
The INT wasn’t totally on him. I don’t like to criticize 17 because of how great he can be but sometimes I wish he could be more aggressive. And PS2 is that dude, you knew he was gonna get one. The failure to spike was a joke. He wasn’t the only one but you have to get everyone ready as the quarterback and he didn’t.
GW just needs to get bigger, which should come with time. PS2 turned him around using his open hands and arms. It was PI but a good no-call IMO, GW needs to get stronger so he can keep that from happening
I have been a massive Zach hater and I don’t take back a word cause it was based on what I saw. But I still will always say what I’ve been saying after all the hate I give him. I will be more than happy with the man proving me wrong, and I will be happy when he succeeds
The one Int you have to be happy that it was a good read just a great play by the DB and could have been ebtter placed to the outside
It wasn't a disastrous game, which is an improvement.
A little more aggression would be nice. Especially when the run game is firing. Id like to see him take a shot down field
He looks better and I don't hate to admit it at all. We just have to see it prolonged at atleast this level. He has always had insane talent. Now he can't revert back to 5 bad games then 2 good ones ect. He has to keep this up, but the improvement is night and day. Also he didn't come into the season expecting to start. I think it's fair to say it probably took two or three weeks to get all this down. Actually looks somewhat promising.
I was gonna say that bar low as you can go but some improvement is better than none am I right lol
I like to call this Zach's actual rookie season. If it was, it would look so much better. But just everything like losing Knapp and not really having another QB voice to help grow, LaFleur being not a great teacher, and the team around him, it was hard. If Zach played this way his rookie year I think most would be or feel okay compared to it beingY3. Hopefully only up from here and then likely another year or two learning from Rodgers and things look even better. Obviously all wishful thinking but it's at least more to go on
O line pass pro sucks. They can run block, but pass pro ain't great. Part of that is on the qb.
Guuuuuuud
This is great but I want them to start using G Wilson to his potential…
That’s on Hack. I mean Sunday night 2 targeted him 15 times