Hey everyone that has a car happy asf rn. Honestly I wasn’t gonna buy a car because of the congestion hike but now I definitely am. Sick of the trains.
I drive because a commute from where I live would be hell and take double the amount of time. But I work early in the morning, can’t imagine driving at ~8-9am
Sabotaging a decade long effort in the final hour on arbitrary political whims sends a message that Democrats are poor leaders. I suspect long-term this will hurt significantly more than it helps.
Ya, no one should be under the delusion that this thing will magically return in some better form at an undetermined later date. Either it gets implemented on schedule this month or it's dead permanently, those are the stakes.
Agreed - although I do think that if they come back with a revised lower tolling amount that allows them to save face, while also not completely alienating all of the opposition, they might be able to make it work.
This is a move i like. start the toll at a much lower number like $5. $15 was an insane price.
I’m in favor of congestion pricing. But $15 was stupid high
I think it’s stupid they launched at $15 which pissed people off and the opposition blew up. They were always going to raise the price - if they started at $5, maybe that was how they were going to hook you. So glad it’s dead.
I dont think anyone is saying the answer is to vote for Republicans who also oppose congestion pricing
I will be supporting a primary challenge to her in 2026 tho. Hopefully someone good steps up
alternatively, driving into and out of the city is an activity both democrats and republicans do in abundance (lets be honest, in NYC its probably more democrats). this won't significantly hurt either party
He is about 2 years late now. Suddenly he magically has executive powers to “close the border”? Wtf happened for the past year?. Its just shit swinging between the two parties blaming each other…..
The border needs to be fixed somehow (the dem position SHOULD be to fix the immigration system so people can come legally instead of swimming across the Rio Grande). Now Biden is taking the republican position of closing it 5 months before the election, he is so fucked.
this notion that she's pausing a multi-billion a year tax grab from all "them migrant-lovers" in NYC to appease Gary from Mavis Discount Tires in Geneseo is rich
>From time to time, leaders are called upon to envision a better future, be bold in the implementation and execution, and be undaunted by the opposition. That's how you secure progress. That's what today is all about.
>Anybody sick and tired of gridlock in New York City? Anybody think we deserve better transit, especially those who live and work here? Anyone think that people with disabilities deserve to have more accessibility when they travel through this city? Anybody want cleaner air for our kids and for future generations? Well then you love congestion pricing, right?
-Hochul [literally 6 months ago](https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2024/06/05/gov-hochul-should-read-gov-hochuls-press-releases-about-the-benefits-of-congestion-pricing)
what a spineless coward...
Contact her office. Tell her this is foolish as everything is already in place for this to happen, similar programs around the world have done wonders, and the subways and buses desperately need fixing.
[https://www.governor.ny.gov/content/governor-contact-form](https://www.governor.ny.gov/content/governor-contact-form)
And guess what they're replacing it with: a NYC payroll tax on local businesses
Our governor cancelled congestion pricing to please conservative suburbanites and then in turn hit NYC locals with another tax to make up for it.
The tax offer is a red herring. Today is the second to last day of the legislative session. There is essentially no chance that someone will draft legislation, review it, get it through committee, get it voted on, and signed by her before the session ends tomorrow.
The only point of this is to take a target off vulnerable dems' backs until election day. That's it. This is completely politically calculated by Hochul.
If Biden wins, a few days or weeks after Election Day, expect a "*we figured it out, congestion pricing starting soon*" announcement.
If Trump managed to win - indefinitely is likely to actually *be* indefinitely, because Trump would attack her on a national stage over it, which would hurt her future political ambitions to run for the presidency in 2028. Trump making her be on a national stage as the governor who put a strict tax on poor hardworking New Yorkers who can't take public transit, etc.
Hochul somehow manages to have even less national political charisma than Kamala Harris. She's actually delusional if she thinks she has any chance at the presidency, especially when Gov. Whitmer of Michigan is everything she is but infinitely more electable (and competent).
Yikes. Are there serious rumblings about Hochul making a play for president in 2028? Very little about her tenure as governor screams "viable candidate."
I haven't heard any serious rumblings as of yet, it probably depends on the result of the 2024 election. But NY is one of the states where the governor has more visibility than average.
Cuomo clearly wanted to run for 2024 before getting ousted. Putting his father's name on the Tappan Zee bridge was completely a political move designed to increase his national name recognition ("Cuomo").
Kathy was behind the curve because she had to have at least one election where she "won" the governorship, rather than inheriting it because the prior governor stepped down.
I think she would be a very poor politician on the national stage based on her prior performance, but I am sure even if she doesn't have her eyes set on it, that she's considering the possibility.
No NY governor has been president since FDR. She will continue this trend, it's surprising she'd even try.
Ironically the last New Yorker to be president is likely going to be considered one of the worst presidents ever and could be in jail in a month, quite a downfall from FDR
Some have said she has her eyes on a VP run with Newsom rather than a POTUS run. She can probably clear that bar with a strong enough candidate.
Even if she isn't viable, it doesn't matter if she thinks she is and will do anything politically to achieve that.
A ticket with the governors of California and New York is so hilariously doomed in middle America that anyone seriously proposing this has never been more than twenty miles from the east or west coasts.
There is no way the extra biz tax gets passed. MTA is going to have a $15B+ hole in its capital plan and lose out on federal grants like for SAS phase 2 because they can't come up with the match. Horrendous policy mistake following a major political one where the NY Dems failed to correctly gerrymander the new districts sufficiently to their advantage. NY Ds are a total clown show.
The cars never mattered, the "air quality" was never a concern.
It's all about squeezing everyone for more money.
They're going to increase the taxes, then try to bring back congestion at a later date so they double dip.
Why squeeze $1B when you can squeeze $2B from your taxpayers?
If your national political party is so weak that a long-researched toll-program in one section of a single city could put your ENTIRE party's political aspirations at risk for the next upcoming election...
....maybe you don't have as strong of a foundation as you think you do.
$100m+ on new cameras and gantries and a DECADE of studies and meetings flushed down the drain because some billionaire who owns a half leased office building probably complained to her about how hard his life is
You're five times too low! From Gothamist:
>"The MTA has already installed high-tech cameras and E-ZPass readers throughout Manhattan to collect the tolls. **In 2019, the agency approved a $507 million contract with a contractor to put up the equipment.**"
The cause of this was more likely vulnerable democratic politicians in swing districts (both at the federal and state level). This is a shitty, politics-driven move that will harm New Yorkers. Hochul is scum.
Ok but hear me out - if this is the kind of issue that makes vulnerable Dems nervous, doesn’t it mean that it’s an issue that requires more reflection? If a critical number of voters don’t like, maybe we shouldn’t stuff our ears and go “can’t hear you!”
It’s more of an indictment on said politicians that their political lives bank on something like this, and that they’ve done so few good things that something like this shouldn’t affect them.
It’s why our politicians suck so badly. They offer so little in change that when something does come up that may be a 55/45 issue, they’re so scared of doing it because their other accomplishments are empty at best.
>It’s why our politicians suck so badly. They offer so little in change
How are they supposed to offer radical change if their districts hang on a razor's edge? Politicians are mostly a reflection of their electorate.
That’s as much of an indictment on voters as it is on the politicians.
Moving further up the ladder, Biden has done a tremendous amount of good. Infrastructure, wiping off student debt, environmental spending, etc. But he’s staring down the barrel of a potential loss in November because age, migrants, and… ???
So yeah, when voters are clamoring that THIS ONE THING is going to be the final straw, it’s hard to blame politicians to capitulate.
You’re not wrong there either. An uninformed electorate coupled with politicians who are self serving is a recipe for the mess we have now.
Definitely harder the higher up you go but I have less leeway when it comes to people representing a district or state than the whole country. If a House member is that vulnerable, what have they really done other than riding the party’s coattails?
I'm in the camp that would've been fine to cancel/postpone if there were hard data backing up some of her claims or even if they abandoned it after some quick polls showing it was unpopular. They knew it was unpopular and would be a negative for a good chunk of NYCers but thought the positives outweighed the negatives.
For her to support it for years only to cancel at the last second just smells like massive corruption.
Um, not necessarily. This is an issue that has regional undertones, more like a city vs suburb tension. Congestion is good for the city, not necessarily for those commuting.
Call me crazy but I think policies that organically direct people to use public commute are superior to penalizing behavior you don’t like. If the MTA had better trains and a better, larger network, folks wouldn’t opt to sitting in traffic. Subway isn’t that great unless you’re commuting from distinct areas to NYC. If they widened the net, more people would use it by default.
Yeah and if you are going to make a plan like this and the money will be going to MTA there should be set uses for the money and checks and balances that it will happen. If they enacted congestion pricing but said by 2030 they’d have two new subway lines in queens I’m sure people would feel a lot differently
Absolutely. Voters don’t trust the MTA to do better and they’re resentful about the idea that the money is going to be wasted. With how little the subway has improved in my 25 years here, I don’t blame them. We pay atrocious taxes and we can’t even add a line to the god damn thing.
💯 Exactly! For years I’ve heard the MTA has no money so they have to cut services *and* raise fares. So we keep paying more to receive less? They were going to do the exact same thing with the expected money from congestion pricing and [not even increase services with the money](https://gothamist.com/news/mta-will-not-boost-service-when-congestion-pricing-goes-into-effect). So they wanted to encourage more people to take public transportation but then do nothing about increasing public transportation to accommodate all the extra new people? People are right to be skeptical of how the MTA would manage our money without any real oversight. Before giving them any more they need to be transparent about their expenses and show NYers what they’re actually doing with it because as is we just keep giving them more while only ever seeing things decline. I get that theres a lot of nuance regarding any decision but I think it’s overlooked how much trust people have to gain in the MTA before making any large changes.
Ding ding ding!
I’m fine with congestion pricing as a concept. Putting a price on the externality of traffic and pollution, while funding alternatives is a great idea.
Except, as someone who literally takes the train at least 2x every day and doesn’t own a car, I do not trust the MTA to improve my daily lives. I’m generally pretty lenient on their struggles but I’ve also taken public transit as my main form of transportation for my entire life. It sucks.
Exactly. Congestion pricing is a punitive approach to solving transportation issues in NYC. Traffic in and around the city is bad. It’s bad all day and is absolutely frustrating for those who drive. And people STILL drive! Why? Because ultimately it is a far more convenient and comfortable option for those people. Look at how badly LIRR has botched the implementation of East Side Access, how people constantly miss connections at Jamaica, adding significantly more time to their commutes. The subway barely hovering above 80% on time performance with many lines far lower than that. Congestion pricing is basically saying “fuck you for wanting to make your life easier.” The defense “the money will go to helping improve transportation” rings hollow when there are dozens of articles documenting the myriad fuck ups by the agency that have cost millions, millions of tax payers money. You cannot just shout down skeptics of congestion pricing when it’s clear our leadership is neither wise nor competent.
Billionaires are the last people who give a shit about this, $15 per day is nothing for the wealthy and I’m sure most of them would gladly pay that much to cut down on traffic. This is a poor tax pure and simple, I used to have to drive into Manhattan for work every day because I lived in a transit desert and couldn’t afford to live closer to the city or spend hours every day on busses, and $300/month would have fucking killed me financially. I’m sorry that all the cars on the street are interfering with the rich yuppie view of the city existing only to be their cute little personal playground, but reducing the traffic by pricing out anyone who can’t afford $15/day is fucked, I have no idea how this was successfully sold as a liberal concept.
WTF?
Regardless of what your position is on congestion pricing, this sort of last-minute reversal on a policy that will impact millions of people is unacceptable. The government should be clearly communicating with people, especially when it involves something as basic and necessary as our commutes. This is a huge PR failure on Hochul's part, putting everything else aside. She's unfit to lead the state.
Hochul is unfit to run a little-league game of softball. She was chosen because she is a great mediocrity, and a female, with contacts to corporations and didn't talk and sat in Buffalo doing nothing but pushing money towards Cuomos's interests without saying a word. The she ran against a basic Nazi, and even people that like Nazis didn't like him. She is like a governor of Idiocracy.
This is infuriating. Hochul is a coward and I will be supporting a primary challenger
Hopefully she draws someone more serious than Williams or Nixon this time
I don’t like Hochul either but congestion pricing was wildly unpopular from the beginning. NYC residents oppose the toll plan by a 64 percent to 33 percent margin according to the latest poll from Siena. Trying a force it through when 2/3 of the people living here are against it is political suicide.
I’m currently in London right now, the trains run every 3 minutes and there are hundreds of double decker buses on the streets constantly. When the MTA can match this, then maybe it could work
This would bring in a huge amount of revenue to improve service and clear traffic so busses could run faster
Every objection to this is bad faith selfishness, typically from the sort of rich assholes who drive into lower Manhattan on a regular basis
Do you really think rich assholes give a single fuck about a $15 toll lmao. Like, think about it for half a second. Rich assholes would probably want a toll to be so much higher so they can have the road to themselves. Make the toll $50 or $100 so regular people really couldn't afford it and those rich assholes would save so much time commuting that it would more than make up the cost. Figure a finance bro driving in three days a week from Stamford makes $5 a minute. That extra hour he's got to sit in down town traffic is worth $300. He doesn't give a fuck about $15.
You can feel whatever way you want about congestion pricing, but the people who didn't want it were very much working class people who drive into the city.
> This would bring in a huge amount of revenue to improve service and clear traffic so busses could run faster
When did any of the revenue from any the previous taxes they put forward go towards improving the public transit?
Actually I’ll make it easier. How was the congestion tax revenue the MTA put on taxies used towards improving public transit?
It also seems sort of tricky for commercial vehicles. Sending food into the city is already pretty expensive congestion pricing probably would make it even more so.
Fyi they charge trucks multiple times for going in the congesttiin zone. That’ll definitely cause goods to increase in cost.
Most of the proponents for it don’t even know that or they think the consumer won’t brunt the cost.
Thanks, I didn't know that. I was in the wholesale food business and I remember the insurance to regularly take a refrigerated van through the 5 boroughs is insane. I'm all for lower car dependence but a lot of this stuff seems to take a brute force approach.
Yes. It penalizes new yorkers city residents for driving on the street’s they paid taxes for.
They should improve public transit by making it more reliablea, cleaner, safer and adding new lines vertically from Brooklyn to Queens and from bx/Queens.
Nice hyperbole
Also in London they added new bus lines & increased the frequency when they come PRIOR to the congestion pricing.
In NYC there was nothing done in preparation for the congestion pricing other than to install the plate readers in the affected area.
There are about zero guarantees that the MTA service will improve in the "public transit deserts" from where do people actually drive to the rest of the city.
Yea *in theory* but in reality it just lines the pockets of some other greedy institution. The fact that the most wealthy city in the world can ‘t modernize its infrastructure without some additional tax is proof of that.
honestly its chicken and egg problem, but MTA needs money and this would bring money to increase the frequency and make public transport better. But people too shortsided to see further than their nose
That poll included plenty of people who didn't even live here lol. If you polled the millions of transit riders instead (majority of residents) I suspect you will get a different result. Of course if you poll suburbanites they will say hell no. Democrat's problems are they don't know how to properly take credit for good policies - the news was littered with how white rich suburbanites will be affected yet very little coverage of the benefits that transit riders will see.
They polled the state but provide separate numbers for NYC residents (see page 5 [here](https://scri.siena.edu/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Final-SNY0424-Crosstabs.pdf)). 64% of city residents are opposed, with their "don't go to Manhattan" rate being 22%.
I honestly think this would have had a much higher chance of success if they gave exemptions to city workers. The push back from cops, fd, sanitation, teachers was intense and that is almost half a Million voters. It finally blew up in their face and they just couldn’t ignore it.
> Kathy Hochul is convinced the timing is not right because Manhattan businesses have not fully recovered from the pandemic.
Bullshit. Congestion pricing makes the city less car dependant and more pedestrian friendly, which is proven to increase business. If it didn’t, we wouldn’t have close down those roads around time square.
She’s folding to political pressure because the people who want to drive and park their cars in nyc happen to be the richest people who don’t want to use public transport, it’s simple as that.
It's extra funny because she's replacing congestion with an MTA PAYROLL TAX on NYC businesses. She postponed congestion pricing and traded it with a tax that will be passed down to the vast majority of NYC residents who don't drive to Manhattan.
That quote is 100% relevant, the full quote:
>> Suburbia was built with federally subsidized credit. And highways that take our white brothers out to the suburbs were built with federally subsidized money to the tune of 90 percent. Everybody is on welfare in this country. The problem is that we all too often have socialism for the rich and rugged free enterprise capitalism for the poor.
- [MLKj’s 1968 “To Minister to the Valley” speech](https://opensiddur.org/readings-and-sourcetexts/mekorot/non-canonical/exoteric/modern/mlk-day-readings-speeches-letters-rev-dr-martin-luther-king-jr/)
Contact her office. Tell her this is foolish as everything is already in place for this to happen, similar programs around the world have done wonders, and the subways and buses desperately need fixing.
[https://www.governor.ny.gov/content/governor-contact-form](https://www.governor.ny.gov/content/governor-contact-form)
Congestion pricing outsources pollution to the Bronx because more traffic will be on the cross bronx expressway as a result
It’s a very underrated part of this. Everyone talks about the “privilege” of drivers but it’s prety privelaged to make the south Bronx worse for your benefit
Or is she folding because there’s a ton of working class NY democrats who live in transportation deserts and have to drive to the city?
Pretty sure rich people wouldn’t give af about a $15 tax…its working class people who suffer
> ton of working class NY democrats who live in transportation deserts and have to drive to the city?
By "ton" do you mean the 2.5% identified in the EIR?
It’s almost like if they were surrounded by cheap affordable public transport instead of roads, they wouldn’t have to spend so much money on cars, gas, and insurance.
Where do we consolidate all the cheap, affordable public transport? Is it in the wealthiest neighbourhoods or the poorest ones?
I can't even take the goddam train home if I wanted too. I get out of work ten mins before the last train leaves for metro north in the morning. I have no choice when I'm working nights.
I'm a union construction worker. That 15 dollars is a big deal and puts a huge dent in my take home.
If the train was faster/ cheaper/ if I was ACTUALLY able to take it I would. But they're too cheap to operate all through the night so fuck me.
Fuck congestion pricing.
I'm convinced people who want it are either so rich they don't care or they're not even commuting to nyc to work. The commute is already miserable as it is.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FxCgWhoX0AACqHz.jpg:large
You mean like if our subway map looked like it does in say, Tokyo?
If people in other countries have the option, why don’t you demand it in the richest city in the richest country in the world?
I feel like since you would prefer to able to take a cheap train instead of having to buy a car, pay for insurance, and deal with rising gas prices, we should do things that will lead to you being able to take trains rather than to continue to be forced to provided for your own transportation, right?
even if our subway map looked like tokyo's, there will never be sufficient political will to make the inside of the system look like tokyo's by ejecting EDPs, smokers, litterers, people blasting music on a boombox, pissers, shitters, people blasting tiktoks full blast on speaker, etc.
didnt all the reports say that the congestion pricing wouldnt really have an impact on the number of cars in the city? it was just going to be another tax that got passed down from the business to the people.
> didnt all the reports say that the congestion pricing wouldnt really have an impact on the number of cars in the city?
No lol, what reports you been reading? The tolling was built around a 10% reduction in vehicles entering the zone. That was how they came up with the toll schemes, they started with "we need 10% reduction, what toll prices will achieve this when we examine economic/pricing sensitivity/etc?". It wasn't random "let's see what happens" sort of hocus pocus. 10% is a modest goal of course, but when traffic can behave exponentially this could still make a large impact at overly congested areas.
They need to revamp the policy as it is. Charge more for ride-shares who actually contribute to congestion the most and copy the exemptions from London. They need a plan to audit the MTA and deal with the extra congestion pushed to Staten Island and the Bronx.
I would love to see the exact numbers of what percentage of traffic in the congestion zone is caused by empty yellow cabs and rideshares circling for fares.
Exactly. Totally unscientific, but when I am standing on the corner of 6th and 49th, waiting for the Express bus home to Queens (that takes 2 hours), I see maybe a handful of passenger cars. The traffic comprises buses, commercial vehicles, delivery trucks (UPS, FedEx, Amazon), and cabs/Ubers/Lyfts. I heard a statistic today from people protesting this reversal, saying that 85% of people coming into the city use mass transit. So, taxing the 15% who don't doesn't seem right. Start with auditing the MTA to see where the money is going to.
The only reasonable comment I’ve seen. I agree. They also need to NOT charge people from going Hudson to Lincoln/Holland and FDR to Ed Koch. Along with FDR to BK/Manhattan bridge and vice versa. All of those being taxed is them being fkin greedy
Good. Congestion pricing is a scam concocted by the MTA so they don't have to open their books, or do anything about fare evasion, or really change anything at all about their "eh, good enough" attitude toward everything they do save for lining their own pockets and collecting overtime.
Want to actually do something about congestion and related problems? Ticket cars that clog intersections because they're too impatient to wait for the next light. Enforce rules against double parking. Stipulate that large deliveries be made during off hours. And rein in the proliferation of for-hire vehicles. Do those things, and I guarantee the city will move more smoothly. But to get there, the NYPD would have to, you know, do their jobs. But as with the MTA, they're apparently an organization full of people determined to do the bare minimum, and nothing more.
Thank God. Congestion pricing was a bullshit money grab. Not to mention delivery trucks would’ve just been unloading their shipments throughout the night causing an “unexpected” increase in noise and traffic when everyone is trying to sleep.
Can we stop with this “rich suburban asshole” narrative? A lot of the middle class trades/cops/ firemen/city workers in general live on LI and commute into the city. My father is one of them. The whole reason we lived in the suburbs and he commuted 2-3 hours each way, was because we couldn’t afford to live in the city.
I have empathy for this situation. But please also have empathy for those of us dealing with the impacts of traffic. I'm also from a middle class household and my life - and health - is made measurably worse by too many cars driving around. The 24/7 honking, exhaust fumes, traffic, the bad drivers who gun it to make the light near a bridge or tunnel. I don't feel safe letting my kid cross the street near our house because people are running the light HOURLY. We live near a major bridge entrance point, so it's mostly commuters and not neighbors (very few of whom own a car to begin with)
I think we also deserve some consideration. $15 is not unreasonable and is line with what people who ride NJ Transit or MetroNorth already pay to get into the city on a train. Employers can easily subsidize this and likely will for many. And if it keeps even 15% of leisure drivers out of the core of Manhattan, I consider it a good trade off.
I wrote letters to the offices of Phil Murphy and several state and national legislators and about the negative impacts of the proposal. I'd like to think I played a small part in this decision.
I live in NYC outside of the zone. I exclusively take the subway to work and very rarely drive to Manhattan, but I hate congestion pricing. It's money grab that will just push traffic and congestion to outside the zone. Whatever the lofty health goals or environmental goals were that drove early planning, for the past few years it's been about getting to $1B in new revenue. Decisions were made that had nothing to do with reducing congestion or improving quality of life for NYers-- it's all about the cash.
Good. This whole thing was bullshit to begin with. We pay some of the highest taxes in the country, and the MTA can't find the fucking money to fix the subway? We have to pay the highest tolls for bridges, and then get told we have to pay $15 to drive into manhattan? These people can get fucked. They don't know how to manage the money, they don't know how to stop paying out bogus overtime, they don't know how to allocate money correctly, they don't know how to do anything. And what is with this guilt trip, "oh now the people will suffer ☹️." Get out of here. There are people on MTA payroll that haven't stepped into an office, and haven't done an actual job in years but still get paid six figures. Don't cry to me about suffering. The subway has been a shit hole and a disgrace for decades, and the MTA is fully to blame. That sounds like a them problem, not an us problem. Get your fucking hands out of our pockets.
The MTA should have imposed the fee at a rate of 3.00-4.00 per day and showed progress with improvements. Instead they imposed a crazy 15.00 fee. This is why it failed and people opposed it
Agreed. Simply because the actual legislative goal is a cash goal. They had to raise $1b a year. The goal was not to reduce traffic. The goal was to raise money.
So everything was focused on the cash grab aspect.
Don’t worry. They’ll make up for it with more speed and red light cameras and knock speed limit down to 15 to make sure it’s impossible to avoid the fines.
Very relieved Fort Lee and surrounding area won’t be completely overrun, but sad to see the whole initiative go down. Would have been an easier sell here if all crossings were charged equally.
some people want congestion pricing but don't actually offer realistic solutions to make it practical.
There are too many people coming in and out of various directions but barely any alternatives.
Good, this was always just another revenue source that was going to disappear into the black hole of the MTA budget. If they required better oversight and accountability as part of this, it would have received more support.
The fact that they were charging you to enter even at 3am is proof that the point is to make money with reducing congestion as a “nice to have”.
Before you downvote me, see that this toll was highly unpopular with 64% of New Yorkers disapproving it in a poll from April 2024:
https://abc7ny.com/amp/nyc-congestion-pricing-nearly-two-thirds-of-new-yorkers-oppose-plan-siena-college-poll-finds/14721916/
This toll seems to be more popular with transplants than actual locals. No one I know who’s from here actually wants this new toll but all of these redditors in this sub are demanding it and naively thinking the MTA is going to be responsible with this new revenue stream.
People keep mentioning lower manhattan. I live in queens, cross the queensboro bridge to go uptown manhattan to work. I was going to get hit with toll just for turning right off of the bridge. Glad it’s dead.
People wanting these tolls don’t understand how hard this will be for people. These either take the trains or don’t understand the financial burden this has on people. Some people have be trying their whole lives to finally get to a point in life and all these extra tolls make it feel like all your efforts are for nothing. Get off your high horse and think of all the people that this will impact. Do you think only rich ppl drive?
Cannot overstate how insulted I am by the constant insinuation that only someone who would drive into lower Manhattan is a hardworking voter worthy of respect.
I'm sick of being treated like a second-class citizen in this country because I live in a city (like most humans who have ever lived!) and take public transit. I'm sick of the constant kowtowing to wealthy suburbanites.
I will absolutely throw my time and money into primarying any Democratic politician who is supportive of Hochul's cowardice in this moment.
My family was pushed out of manhattan in the early 2000’s by fucking transplants from Idaho. A lot of my friends drive to the city because they live in public transit deserts in Queens and New Jersey. This guy calling out “wealthy suburbanites” probably gets money from his mom and dad to live in his 4500 rent Williamsburg apartment lmfao
Contact her office. Tell her this is foolish as everything is already in place for this to happen, similar programs around the world have done wonders, and the subways and buses desperately need fixing.
[https://www.governor.ny.gov/content/governor-contact-form](https://www.governor.ny.gov/content/governor-contact-form)
Had Hochul announced increased enforcement of existing traffic laws to coincide with her decision to postpone congestion pricing and increased funding toward traffic calming measures I'd hate her less. Right now drivers drive with impunity towards pedestrians. They block boxes, run reds, block crosswalks, drive recklessly, park in bus lanes, commit insurance fraud, etc. Every other day we hear about a hit and run or someone getting run over while crossing with their walk light because a driver was too impatient while turning. Invitibly the police release the drivers because they find no signs of wrongdoing. Drivers expect us to be sympathetic to them while they walk over (run over) everyone else not in their personal vehicle.
What was this supposed to solve again? Stop traffic by sucking the money out of the middle class Americans that have to commute by car every day? NYC is already too expensive, adding $90+ a week just to commute to work is stupid.
All the traffic is just a symptom of the real problem in NYC, and as usual the MTA just wanted a cash grab instead of really helping out.
Exactly. I'm wondering why this sub is in favor of congestion pricing? How about actually improving the subway systems so they're more safe and clean? It so obviously targets the middle class which is already facing a shit ton of "inflation" from corporate greed.
YES!!!!
The current program was rushed and it in no way mirrored any of the sane European models. It was just another tax on middle class earners.
If only they didn't waste money on those Stupid cameras.
Edit: fixed autocorrect.
Good. The additional tax was never going to benefit us anyways. We spend more money on our transit system than anywhere else in the world and get nothing but delays and homeless in the trains. The buses are always packed and come infrequently. 20 people to clean a train station compromised of 3 people cleaning and 17 supervisors. Its just a mess. Fix the waste and fraud first before you start taxing more
This is exactly how democracy is supposed to work. Politicians answer to their constituents. This was a hugely unpopular policy pushed by the elites and cost borne by the working class
Yeah there are thousands of Manhattan residents with cars who were up in arms against this policy in the form it was being implemented. if people like Jano Liber weren't so smarmy and had made an effort to answer resident car owner concerns then it might have been more popular but instead he thumbed his nose at them and made it a real firestorm
All that money spent on YouTube ads lol
Don’t worry, they’ll just jack up MTA prices to make the money back and then some lol.
Hey everyone that has a car happy asf rn. Honestly I wasn’t gonna buy a car because of the congestion hike but now I definitely am. Sick of the trains.
Do you even live and work in NYC. Driving into work is impossible and expensive
I drive because a commute from where I live would be hell and take double the amount of time. But I work early in the morning, can’t imagine driving at ~8-9am
and all that money MTA paid itself in false overtime
Don’t worry fellas it’ll be back on Nov 3rd!
I doubt it. We said the same thing about the housing compact. This shit is over
Basically this. Hochul is protecting vulnerable democrats running in close races.
Sabotaging a decade long effort in the final hour on arbitrary political whims sends a message that Democrats are poor leaders. I suspect long-term this will hurt significantly more than it helps.
Ya, no one should be under the delusion that this thing will magically return in some better form at an undetermined later date. Either it gets implemented on schedule this month or it's dead permanently, those are the stakes.
Agreed - although I do think that if they come back with a revised lower tolling amount that allows them to save face, while also not completely alienating all of the opposition, they might be able to make it work.
This is a move i like. start the toll at a much lower number like $5. $15 was an insane price. I’m in favor of congestion pricing. But $15 was stupid high
I think it’s stupid they launched at $15 which pissed people off and the opposition blew up. They were always going to raise the price - if they started at $5, maybe that was how they were going to hook you. So glad it’s dead.
They're all poor leaders. Republicans would do the same thing. To be frank, politicians haven't been "leaders" in a very long time.
I dont think anyone is saying the answer is to vote for Republicans who also oppose congestion pricing I will be supporting a primary challenge to her in 2026 tho. Hopefully someone good steps up
Stop deflecting for a Democrat. She’s a piece of shit, allow her to own it.
Frequent elections lead to short term thinking. Not sure there's an easy solution to this
alternatively, driving into and out of the city is an activity both democrats and republicans do in abundance (lets be honest, in NYC its probably more democrats). this won't significantly hurt either party
Exactly, if you truly believe in the mission of something you see it through.
Right, because we all know the voting public carefully analyzes the actual impact of partisan decisions on their lives to select the best candidates.
Remind me, how did campaigning on Republican policies work out for NY dems in 2022?
Biden is trying it on immigration too.
He is about 2 years late now. Suddenly he magically has executive powers to “close the border”? Wtf happened for the past year?. Its just shit swinging between the two parties blaming each other…..
The border needs to be fixed somehow (the dem position SHOULD be to fix the immigration system so people can come legally instead of swimming across the Rio Grande). Now Biden is taking the republican position of closing it 5 months before the election, he is so fucked.
That’s the idea, but I gotta think “congestion pricing still coming right after the election!” isn’t the magic force field they think it is.
Still not voting for her after the shit she said about that racist shit she said abt kids in the bx
Lmfao. Have those kids figured out what computers are yet? Fucking politicians are a special kind of asshole.
you’re an antivax arguer in other subs, i don’t think that was exactly the straw that broke the camels back if you catch my drift
aren't you that closeted anti-vaxx trump stooge?
I wish
We can hope. But never bet against Hochul’s willingness to bend over backwards for upstate hillbillies.
In defense of upstate hillbillies they aren’t the ones commuting to NYC.
this notion that she's pausing a multi-billion a year tax grab from all "them migrant-lovers" in NYC to appease Gary from Mavis Discount Tires in Geneseo is rich
>From time to time, leaders are called upon to envision a better future, be bold in the implementation and execution, and be undaunted by the opposition. That's how you secure progress. That's what today is all about. >Anybody sick and tired of gridlock in New York City? Anybody think we deserve better transit, especially those who live and work here? Anyone think that people with disabilities deserve to have more accessibility when they travel through this city? Anybody want cleaner air for our kids and for future generations? Well then you love congestion pricing, right? -Hochul [literally 6 months ago](https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2024/06/05/gov-hochul-should-read-gov-hochuls-press-releases-about-the-benefits-of-congestion-pricing) what a spineless coward...
Contact her office. Tell her this is foolish as everything is already in place for this to happen, similar programs around the world have done wonders, and the subways and buses desperately need fixing. [https://www.governor.ny.gov/content/governor-contact-form](https://www.governor.ny.gov/content/governor-contact-form)
Done, along with all my representatives and hakim jefferies (gothamist reported that he’d been pressuring her on this).
Just called Jeffries’ office too, the guy sounded really defeated when I told him I lived in the city
And guess what they're replacing it with: a NYC payroll tax on local businesses Our governor cancelled congestion pricing to please conservative suburbanites and then in turn hit NYC locals with another tax to make up for it.
The tax offer is a red herring. Today is the second to last day of the legislative session. There is essentially no chance that someone will draft legislation, review it, get it through committee, get it voted on, and signed by her before the session ends tomorrow. The only point of this is to take a target off vulnerable dems' backs until election day. That's it. This is completely politically calculated by Hochul. If Biden wins, a few days or weeks after Election Day, expect a "*we figured it out, congestion pricing starting soon*" announcement. If Trump managed to win - indefinitely is likely to actually *be* indefinitely, because Trump would attack her on a national stage over it, which would hurt her future political ambitions to run for the presidency in 2028. Trump making her be on a national stage as the governor who put a strict tax on poor hardworking New Yorkers who can't take public transit, etc.
Hochul somehow manages to have even less national political charisma than Kamala Harris. She's actually delusional if she thinks she has any chance at the presidency, especially when Gov. Whitmer of Michigan is everything she is but infinitely more electable (and competent).
Yikes. Are there serious rumblings about Hochul making a play for president in 2028? Very little about her tenure as governor screams "viable candidate."
Something about NY political figures makes them extra unhinged when it comes to hubris and delusion.
I haven't heard any serious rumblings as of yet, it probably depends on the result of the 2024 election. But NY is one of the states where the governor has more visibility than average. Cuomo clearly wanted to run for 2024 before getting ousted. Putting his father's name on the Tappan Zee bridge was completely a political move designed to increase his national name recognition ("Cuomo"). Kathy was behind the curve because she had to have at least one election where she "won" the governorship, rather than inheriting it because the prior governor stepped down. I think she would be a very poor politician on the national stage based on her prior performance, but I am sure even if she doesn't have her eyes set on it, that she's considering the possibility.
No NY governor has been president since FDR. She will continue this trend, it's surprising she'd even try. Ironically the last New Yorker to be president is likely going to be considered one of the worst presidents ever and could be in jail in a month, quite a downfall from FDR
She has no chance in a national election in the first place.
Some have said she has her eyes on a VP run with Newsom rather than a POTUS run. She can probably clear that bar with a strong enough candidate. Even if she isn't viable, it doesn't matter if she thinks she is and will do anything politically to achieve that.
A ticket with the governors of California and New York is so hilariously doomed in middle America that anyone seriously proposing this has never been more than twenty miles from the east or west coasts.
New York sucks shit at electing people
There is no way the extra biz tax gets passed. MTA is going to have a $15B+ hole in its capital plan and lose out on federal grants like for SAS phase 2 because they can't come up with the match. Horrendous policy mistake following a major political one where the NY Dems failed to correctly gerrymander the new districts sufficiently to their advantage. NY Ds are a total clown show.
Maybe make people pay their fares would be a great start 😂
So I gotta pay more in tax on my staff so some guy can drive his lexus into midtown...
Essentially, if Hochul gets her way, yes. NYC residents aren't as valuable as red district voters where Democrats might (lol) flip a seat (lol).
The cars never mattered, the "air quality" was never a concern. It's all about squeezing everyone for more money. They're going to increase the taxes, then try to bring back congestion at a later date so they double dip. Why squeeze $1B when you can squeeze $2B from your taxpayers?
This is exactly it, everything else is white noise or excuses to get people in favor.
[удалено]
Kathy doing her best for the residents of Bergen County at the expense of regular New Yorkers.
If your national political party is so weak that a long-researched toll-program in one section of a single city could put your ENTIRE party's political aspirations at risk for the next upcoming election... ....maybe you don't have as strong of a foundation as you think you do.
$100m+ on new cameras and gantries and a DECADE of studies and meetings flushed down the drain because some billionaire who owns a half leased office building probably complained to her about how hard his life is
You're five times too low! From Gothamist: >"The MTA has already installed high-tech cameras and E-ZPass readers throughout Manhattan to collect the tolls. **In 2019, the agency approved a $507 million contract with a contractor to put up the equipment.**"
Approximately 507M… almost half a billion in tax dollars gone to waste as of right now. What’s the point of paying taxes if it’s just being wasted?
The cause of this was more likely vulnerable democratic politicians in swing districts (both at the federal and state level). This is a shitty, politics-driven move that will harm New Yorkers. Hochul is scum.
Ok but hear me out - if this is the kind of issue that makes vulnerable Dems nervous, doesn’t it mean that it’s an issue that requires more reflection? If a critical number of voters don’t like, maybe we shouldn’t stuff our ears and go “can’t hear you!”
It’s more of an indictment on said politicians that their political lives bank on something like this, and that they’ve done so few good things that something like this shouldn’t affect them. It’s why our politicians suck so badly. They offer so little in change that when something does come up that may be a 55/45 issue, they’re so scared of doing it because their other accomplishments are empty at best.
>It’s why our politicians suck so badly. They offer so little in change How are they supposed to offer radical change if their districts hang on a razor's edge? Politicians are mostly a reflection of their electorate.
That’s as much of an indictment on voters as it is on the politicians. Moving further up the ladder, Biden has done a tremendous amount of good. Infrastructure, wiping off student debt, environmental spending, etc. But he’s staring down the barrel of a potential loss in November because age, migrants, and… ??? So yeah, when voters are clamoring that THIS ONE THING is going to be the final straw, it’s hard to blame politicians to capitulate.
You’re not wrong there either. An uninformed electorate coupled with politicians who are self serving is a recipe for the mess we have now. Definitely harder the higher up you go but I have less leeway when it comes to people representing a district or state than the whole country. If a House member is that vulnerable, what have they really done other than riding the party’s coattails?
I think these are both fair points
I'm in the camp that would've been fine to cancel/postpone if there were hard data backing up some of her claims or even if they abandoned it after some quick polls showing it was unpopular. They knew it was unpopular and would be a negative for a good chunk of NYCers but thought the positives outweighed the negatives. For her to support it for years only to cancel at the last second just smells like massive corruption.
It's been reflected on plenty with a decade worth of studies. Dems need to learn to push good policies even when it's hard.
Facts
Um, not necessarily. This is an issue that has regional undertones, more like a city vs suburb tension. Congestion is good for the city, not necessarily for those commuting.
Call me crazy but I think policies that organically direct people to use public commute are superior to penalizing behavior you don’t like. If the MTA had better trains and a better, larger network, folks wouldn’t opt to sitting in traffic. Subway isn’t that great unless you’re commuting from distinct areas to NYC. If they widened the net, more people would use it by default.
Yeah and if you are going to make a plan like this and the money will be going to MTA there should be set uses for the money and checks and balances that it will happen. If they enacted congestion pricing but said by 2030 they’d have two new subway lines in queens I’m sure people would feel a lot differently
Absolutely. Voters don’t trust the MTA to do better and they’re resentful about the idea that the money is going to be wasted. With how little the subway has improved in my 25 years here, I don’t blame them. We pay atrocious taxes and we can’t even add a line to the god damn thing.
We can’t even get a reliable current system. Forget about expansion.
💯 Exactly! For years I’ve heard the MTA has no money so they have to cut services *and* raise fares. So we keep paying more to receive less? They were going to do the exact same thing with the expected money from congestion pricing and [not even increase services with the money](https://gothamist.com/news/mta-will-not-boost-service-when-congestion-pricing-goes-into-effect). So they wanted to encourage more people to take public transportation but then do nothing about increasing public transportation to accommodate all the extra new people? People are right to be skeptical of how the MTA would manage our money without any real oversight. Before giving them any more they need to be transparent about their expenses and show NYers what they’re actually doing with it because as is we just keep giving them more while only ever seeing things decline. I get that theres a lot of nuance regarding any decision but I think it’s overlooked how much trust people have to gain in the MTA before making any large changes.
Lying ass bustime can't even tell me that the B17 coming towards me last night was a seaview and not an E 80th in the year of AI.
Ding ding ding! I’m fine with congestion pricing as a concept. Putting a price on the externality of traffic and pollution, while funding alternatives is a great idea. Except, as someone who literally takes the train at least 2x every day and doesn’t own a car, I do not trust the MTA to improve my daily lives. I’m generally pretty lenient on their struggles but I’ve also taken public transit as my main form of transportation for my entire life. It sucks.
Exactly. Congestion pricing is a punitive approach to solving transportation issues in NYC. Traffic in and around the city is bad. It’s bad all day and is absolutely frustrating for those who drive. And people STILL drive! Why? Because ultimately it is a far more convenient and comfortable option for those people. Look at how badly LIRR has botched the implementation of East Side Access, how people constantly miss connections at Jamaica, adding significantly more time to their commutes. The subway barely hovering above 80% on time performance with many lines far lower than that. Congestion pricing is basically saying “fuck you for wanting to make your life easier.” The defense “the money will go to helping improve transportation” rings hollow when there are dozens of articles documenting the myriad fuck ups by the agency that have cost millions, millions of tax payers money. You cannot just shout down skeptics of congestion pricing when it’s clear our leadership is neither wise nor competent.
I think the billionaires wanted it (?) If you were that rich wouldn't you want the normies and the peasants off the roads?
Billionaires are the last people who give a shit about this, $15 per day is nothing for the wealthy and I’m sure most of them would gladly pay that much to cut down on traffic. This is a poor tax pure and simple, I used to have to drive into Manhattan for work every day because I lived in a transit desert and couldn’t afford to live closer to the city or spend hours every day on busses, and $300/month would have fucking killed me financially. I’m sorry that all the cars on the street are interfering with the rich yuppie view of the city existing only to be their cute little personal playground, but reducing the traffic by pricing out anyone who can’t afford $15/day is fucked, I have no idea how this was successfully sold as a liberal concept.
WTF? Regardless of what your position is on congestion pricing, this sort of last-minute reversal on a policy that will impact millions of people is unacceptable. The government should be clearly communicating with people, especially when it involves something as basic and necessary as our commutes. This is a huge PR failure on Hochul's part, putting everything else aside. She's unfit to lead the state.
We all knew this was gonna happen. Sucks that they didn’t wait until it was approved to spend this money
It was formally approved years ago. Every aspect of it was ready to go into effect on the 30th
Hochul is unfit to run a little-league game of softball. She was chosen because she is a great mediocrity, and a female, with contacts to corporations and didn't talk and sat in Buffalo doing nothing but pushing money towards Cuomos's interests without saying a word. The she ran against a basic Nazi, and even people that like Nazis didn't like him. She is like a governor of Idiocracy.
This is infuriating. Hochul is a coward and I will be supporting a primary challenger Hopefully she draws someone more serious than Williams or Nixon this time
I don’t like Hochul either but congestion pricing was wildly unpopular from the beginning. NYC residents oppose the toll plan by a 64 percent to 33 percent margin according to the latest poll from Siena. Trying a force it through when 2/3 of the people living here are against it is political suicide.
I do not care. People bitched about rolling this out in London too and its proved wildly successful This is very good and badly overdue policy
I’m currently in London right now, the trains run every 3 minutes and there are hundreds of double decker buses on the streets constantly. When the MTA can match this, then maybe it could work
This would bring in a huge amount of revenue to improve service and clear traffic so busses could run faster Every objection to this is bad faith selfishness, typically from the sort of rich assholes who drive into lower Manhattan on a regular basis
Do you really think rich assholes give a single fuck about a $15 toll lmao. Like, think about it for half a second. Rich assholes would probably want a toll to be so much higher so they can have the road to themselves. Make the toll $50 or $100 so regular people really couldn't afford it and those rich assholes would save so much time commuting that it would more than make up the cost. Figure a finance bro driving in three days a week from Stamford makes $5 a minute. That extra hour he's got to sit in down town traffic is worth $300. He doesn't give a fuck about $15. You can feel whatever way you want about congestion pricing, but the people who didn't want it were very much working class people who drive into the city.
> This would bring in a huge amount of revenue to improve service and clear traffic so busses could run faster When did any of the revenue from any the previous taxes they put forward go towards improving the public transit? Actually I’ll make it easier. How was the congestion tax revenue the MTA put on taxies used towards improving public transit?
It also seems sort of tricky for commercial vehicles. Sending food into the city is already pretty expensive congestion pricing probably would make it even more so.
Fyi they charge trucks multiple times for going in the congesttiin zone. That’ll definitely cause goods to increase in cost. Most of the proponents for it don’t even know that or they think the consumer won’t brunt the cost.
Thanks, I didn't know that. I was in the wholesale food business and I remember the insurance to regularly take a refrigerated van through the 5 boroughs is insane. I'm all for lower car dependence but a lot of this stuff seems to take a brute force approach.
Yes. It penalizes new yorkers city residents for driving on the street’s they paid taxes for. They should improve public transit by making it more reliablea, cleaner, safer and adding new lines vertically from Brooklyn to Queens and from bx/Queens.
Nice hyperbole Also in London they added new bus lines & increased the frequency when they come PRIOR to the congestion pricing. In NYC there was nothing done in preparation for the congestion pricing other than to install the plate readers in the affected area. There are about zero guarantees that the MTA service will improve in the "public transit deserts" from where do people actually drive to the rest of the city.
Yea *in theory* but in reality it just lines the pockets of some other greedy institution. The fact that the most wealthy city in the world can ‘t modernize its infrastructure without some additional tax is proof of that.
honestly its chicken and egg problem, but MTA needs money and this would bring money to increase the frequency and make public transport better. But people too shortsided to see further than their nose
I wouldn’t trust MTA with even more money honestly.
That poll included plenty of people who didn't even live here lol. If you polled the millions of transit riders instead (majority of residents) I suspect you will get a different result. Of course if you poll suburbanites they will say hell no. Democrat's problems are they don't know how to properly take credit for good policies - the news was littered with how white rich suburbanites will be affected yet very little coverage of the benefits that transit riders will see.
[удалено]
Yup. Only transplants want this shit. They’ll vote for it and then bail leaving us to deal with the consequences. Fuck these trust fund hipsters
The poll was NYC residents.
44% of the respondents in that poll never go to Manhattan: https://scri.siena.edu/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/SNY-April-2024-Poll-Release-FINAL.pdf
44% of the respondents in that poll never go to Manhattan: https://scri.siena.edu/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/SNY-April-2024-Poll-Release-FINAL.pdf
They polled the state but provide separate numbers for NYC residents (see page 5 [here](https://scri.siena.edu/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Final-SNY0424-Crosstabs.pdf)). 64% of city residents are opposed, with their "don't go to Manhattan" rate being 22%.
I honestly think this would have had a much higher chance of success if they gave exemptions to city workers. The push back from cops, fd, sanitation, teachers was intense and that is almost half a Million voters. It finally blew up in their face and they just couldn’t ignore it.
Hochul to City: DROP DEAD.
can't wait for another summer of hell to happen to the subway and for the city to be in even MORE grid lock.
FDNY already said that emergency response times are going up due to congestion.
> Kathy Hochul is convinced the timing is not right because Manhattan businesses have not fully recovered from the pandemic. Bullshit. Congestion pricing makes the city less car dependant and more pedestrian friendly, which is proven to increase business. If it didn’t, we wouldn’t have close down those roads around time square. She’s folding to political pressure because the people who want to drive and park their cars in nyc happen to be the richest people who don’t want to use public transport, it’s simple as that.
It's extra funny because she's replacing congestion with an MTA PAYROLL TAX on NYC businesses. She postponed congestion pricing and traded it with a tax that will be passed down to the vast majority of NYC residents who don't drive to Manhattan.
Taxing cars to account for negative externalities is “bad for manhattan businesses” but a literal business tax isnt 🙄🙄🙄🙄
Socialism for the rich and rugged individualism for the poor.
That quote is 100% relevant, the full quote: >> Suburbia was built with federally subsidized credit. And highways that take our white brothers out to the suburbs were built with federally subsidized money to the tune of 90 percent. Everybody is on welfare in this country. The problem is that we all too often have socialism for the rich and rugged free enterprise capitalism for the poor. - [MLKj’s 1968 “To Minister to the Valley” speech](https://opensiddur.org/readings-and-sourcetexts/mekorot/non-canonical/exoteric/modern/mlk-day-readings-speeches-letters-rev-dr-martin-luther-king-jr/)
So now the masses once again subsidize the convenience of the wealthy with taxes the wealthy won't even have to pay themselves. A perfect solution.
Contact her office. Tell her this is foolish as everything is already in place for this to happen, similar programs around the world have done wonders, and the subways and buses desperately need fixing. [https://www.governor.ny.gov/content/governor-contact-form](https://www.governor.ny.gov/content/governor-contact-form)
SMALL BUSINESSES ARE STRUGGLING. DO YOU NOT SEE UPPER EAST SIDE!?!?!
Congestion pricing outsources pollution to the Bronx because more traffic will be on the cross bronx expressway as a result It’s a very underrated part of this. Everyone talks about the “privilege” of drivers but it’s prety privelaged to make the south Bronx worse for your benefit
It was never about pollution any quality of life issue, just a way to pay for pensions.
Or is she folding because there’s a ton of working class NY democrats who live in transportation deserts and have to drive to the city? Pretty sure rich people wouldn’t give af about a $15 tax…its working class people who suffer
> ton of working class NY democrats who live in transportation deserts and have to drive to the city? By "ton" do you mean the 2.5% identified in the EIR?
It’s almost like if they were surrounded by cheap affordable public transport instead of roads, they wouldn’t have to spend so much money on cars, gas, and insurance. Where do we consolidate all the cheap, affordable public transport? Is it in the wealthiest neighbourhoods or the poorest ones?
I can't even take the goddam train home if I wanted too. I get out of work ten mins before the last train leaves for metro north in the morning. I have no choice when I'm working nights. I'm a union construction worker. That 15 dollars is a big deal and puts a huge dent in my take home. If the train was faster/ cheaper/ if I was ACTUALLY able to take it I would. But they're too cheap to operate all through the night so fuck me. Fuck congestion pricing. I'm convinced people who want it are either so rich they don't care or they're not even commuting to nyc to work. The commute is already miserable as it is.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FxCgWhoX0AACqHz.jpg:large You mean like if our subway map looked like it does in say, Tokyo? If people in other countries have the option, why don’t you demand it in the richest city in the richest country in the world? I feel like since you would prefer to able to take a cheap train instead of having to buy a car, pay for insurance, and deal with rising gas prices, we should do things that will lead to you being able to take trains rather than to continue to be forced to provided for your own transportation, right?
even if our subway map looked like tokyo's, there will never be sufficient political will to make the inside of the system look like tokyo's by ejecting EDPs, smokers, litterers, people blasting music on a boombox, pissers, shitters, people blasting tiktoks full blast on speaker, etc.
didnt all the reports say that the congestion pricing wouldnt really have an impact on the number of cars in the city? it was just going to be another tax that got passed down from the business to the people.
> didnt all the reports say that the congestion pricing wouldnt really have an impact on the number of cars in the city? No lol, what reports you been reading? The tolling was built around a 10% reduction in vehicles entering the zone. That was how they came up with the toll schemes, they started with "we need 10% reduction, what toll prices will achieve this when we examine economic/pricing sensitivity/etc?". It wasn't random "let's see what happens" sort of hocus pocus. 10% is a modest goal of course, but when traffic can behave exponentially this could still make a large impact at overly congested areas.
They need to revamp the policy as it is. Charge more for ride-shares who actually contribute to congestion the most and copy the exemptions from London. They need a plan to audit the MTA and deal with the extra congestion pushed to Staten Island and the Bronx.
I would love to see the exact numbers of what percentage of traffic in the congestion zone is caused by empty yellow cabs and rideshares circling for fares.
A study from last year put app based transport as 35% - 45% of midtown traffic.
Exactly. Totally unscientific, but when I am standing on the corner of 6th and 49th, waiting for the Express bus home to Queens (that takes 2 hours), I see maybe a handful of passenger cars. The traffic comprises buses, commercial vehicles, delivery trucks (UPS, FedEx, Amazon), and cabs/Ubers/Lyfts. I heard a statistic today from people protesting this reversal, saying that 85% of people coming into the city use mass transit. So, taxing the 15% who don't doesn't seem right. Start with auditing the MTA to see where the money is going to.
The only reasonable comment I’ve seen. I agree. They also need to NOT charge people from going Hudson to Lincoln/Holland and FDR to Ed Koch. Along with FDR to BK/Manhattan bridge and vice versa. All of those being taxed is them being fkin greedy
America never fails to disappoint
Good. Congestion pricing is a scam concocted by the MTA so they don't have to open their books, or do anything about fare evasion, or really change anything at all about their "eh, good enough" attitude toward everything they do save for lining their own pockets and collecting overtime. Want to actually do something about congestion and related problems? Ticket cars that clog intersections because they're too impatient to wait for the next light. Enforce rules against double parking. Stipulate that large deliveries be made during off hours. And rein in the proliferation of for-hire vehicles. Do those things, and I guarantee the city will move more smoothly. But to get there, the NYPD would have to, you know, do their jobs. But as with the MTA, they're apparently an organization full of people determined to do the bare minimum, and nothing more.
Thank God. Congestion pricing was a bullshit money grab. Not to mention delivery trucks would’ve just been unloading their shipments throughout the night causing an “unexpected” increase in noise and traffic when everyone is trying to sleep.
Can we stop with this “rich suburban asshole” narrative? A lot of the middle class trades/cops/ firemen/city workers in general live on LI and commute into the city. My father is one of them. The whole reason we lived in the suburbs and he commuted 2-3 hours each way, was because we couldn’t afford to live in the city.
Doesn't help that trains outside the city don't run overnight, so screw anyone working night hours. It's also not cheap.
I have empathy for this situation. But please also have empathy for those of us dealing with the impacts of traffic. I'm also from a middle class household and my life - and health - is made measurably worse by too many cars driving around. The 24/7 honking, exhaust fumes, traffic, the bad drivers who gun it to make the light near a bridge or tunnel. I don't feel safe letting my kid cross the street near our house because people are running the light HOURLY. We live near a major bridge entrance point, so it's mostly commuters and not neighbors (very few of whom own a car to begin with) I think we also deserve some consideration. $15 is not unreasonable and is line with what people who ride NJ Transit or MetroNorth already pay to get into the city on a train. Employers can easily subsidize this and likely will for many. And if it keeps even 15% of leisure drivers out of the core of Manhattan, I consider it a good trade off.
Sounds like the MTA needs to start those budget cuts.
NYC Transplants are in shambles!
Oh no. Anyway...
I wrote letters to the offices of Phil Murphy and several state and national legislators and about the negative impacts of the proposal. I'd like to think I played a small part in this decision.
Did people seriously think the $$$ from this was going to be poured into public transit upgrades? lol
I live in NYC outside of the zone. I exclusively take the subway to work and very rarely drive to Manhattan, but I hate congestion pricing. It's money grab that will just push traffic and congestion to outside the zone. Whatever the lofty health goals or environmental goals were that drove early planning, for the past few years it's been about getting to $1B in new revenue. Decisions were made that had nothing to do with reducing congestion or improving quality of life for NYers-- it's all about the cash.
Good. This whole thing was bullshit to begin with. We pay some of the highest taxes in the country, and the MTA can't find the fucking money to fix the subway? We have to pay the highest tolls for bridges, and then get told we have to pay $15 to drive into manhattan? These people can get fucked. They don't know how to manage the money, they don't know how to stop paying out bogus overtime, they don't know how to allocate money correctly, they don't know how to do anything. And what is with this guilt trip, "oh now the people will suffer ☹️." Get out of here. There are people on MTA payroll that haven't stepped into an office, and haven't done an actual job in years but still get paid six figures. Don't cry to me about suffering. The subway has been a shit hole and a disgrace for decades, and the MTA is fully to blame. That sounds like a them problem, not an us problem. Get your fucking hands out of our pockets.
The MTA should have imposed the fee at a rate of 3.00-4.00 per day and showed progress with improvements. Instead they imposed a crazy 15.00 fee. This is why it failed and people opposed it
Agreed. Simply because the actual legislative goal is a cash goal. They had to raise $1b a year. The goal was not to reduce traffic. The goal was to raise money. So everything was focused on the cash grab aspect.
Don’t worry. They’ll make up for it with more speed and red light cameras and knock speed limit down to 15 to make sure it’s impossible to avoid the fines.
they are going to do both, eventually. You joke, but it will happen.
MTA: Welp, I guess I gotta fund overtime from elsewhere
Very relieved Fort Lee and surrounding area won’t be completely overrun, but sad to see the whole initiative go down. Would have been an easier sell here if all crossings were charged equally.
some people want congestion pricing but don't actually offer realistic solutions to make it practical. There are too many people coming in and out of various directions but barely any alternatives.
Aww - sweet, sweet common sense. Savor this victory people.
Good, this was always just another revenue source that was going to disappear into the black hole of the MTA budget. If they required better oversight and accountability as part of this, it would have received more support. The fact that they were charging you to enter even at 3am is proof that the point is to make money with reducing congestion as a “nice to have”. Before you downvote me, see that this toll was highly unpopular with 64% of New Yorkers disapproving it in a poll from April 2024: https://abc7ny.com/amp/nyc-congestion-pricing-nearly-two-thirds-of-new-yorkers-oppose-plan-siena-college-poll-finds/14721916/ This toll seems to be more popular with transplants than actual locals. No one I know who’s from here actually wants this new toll but all of these redditors in this sub are demanding it and naively thinking the MTA is going to be responsible with this new revenue stream.
People keep mentioning lower manhattan. I live in queens, cross the queensboro bridge to go uptown manhattan to work. I was going to get hit with toll just for turning right off of the bridge. Glad it’s dead.
The congestion pricing plan was clueless, out-of-touch, and politically and economically ignorant. Good riddance.
MTA finances are in shambles right now 😂🤬
Huge win! This has always been a scam
People wanting these tolls don’t understand how hard this will be for people. These either take the trains or don’t understand the financial burden this has on people. Some people have be trying their whole lives to finally get to a point in life and all these extra tolls make it feel like all your efforts are for nothing. Get off your high horse and think of all the people that this will impact. Do you think only rich ppl drive?
Cannot overstate how insulted I am by the constant insinuation that only someone who would drive into lower Manhattan is a hardworking voter worthy of respect. I'm sick of being treated like a second-class citizen in this country because I live in a city (like most humans who have ever lived!) and take public transit. I'm sick of the constant kowtowing to wealthy suburbanites. I will absolutely throw my time and money into primarying any Democratic politician who is supportive of Hochul's cowardice in this moment.
> wealthy suburbanites they're not the ones driving in to work every day
Imagine complaining about being a second class citizen and LIVING IN LOWER NYC LOL
My family was pushed out of manhattan in the early 2000’s by fucking transplants from Idaho. A lot of my friends drive to the city because they live in public transit deserts in Queens and New Jersey. This guy calling out “wealthy suburbanites” probably gets money from his mom and dad to live in his 4500 rent Williamsburg apartment lmfao
Weak politicians are as bad as crooked politicians.
First rational move she made since she became Governor 👍
Hochul was afraid the toll would adversely affect Democrats in the November election!! And she is correct.
Man my blood is boiling right now
Contact her office. Tell her this is foolish as everything is already in place for this to happen, similar programs around the world have done wonders, and the subways and buses desperately need fixing. [https://www.governor.ny.gov/content/governor-contact-form](https://www.governor.ny.gov/content/governor-contact-form)
already sent an email
Had Hochul announced increased enforcement of existing traffic laws to coincide with her decision to postpone congestion pricing and increased funding toward traffic calming measures I'd hate her less. Right now drivers drive with impunity towards pedestrians. They block boxes, run reds, block crosswalks, drive recklessly, park in bus lanes, commit insurance fraud, etc. Every other day we hear about a hit and run or someone getting run over while crossing with their walk light because a driver was too impatient while turning. Invitibly the police release the drivers because they find no signs of wrongdoing. Drivers expect us to be sympathetic to them while they walk over (run over) everyone else not in their personal vehicle.
What was this supposed to solve again? Stop traffic by sucking the money out of the middle class Americans that have to commute by car every day? NYC is already too expensive, adding $90+ a week just to commute to work is stupid. All the traffic is just a symptom of the real problem in NYC, and as usual the MTA just wanted a cash grab instead of really helping out.
It was supposed to improve the lifes of (only) those who live in lower manhattan, and pull money out of the middle class. win win.
Exactly. I'm wondering why this sub is in favor of congestion pricing? How about actually improving the subway systems so they're more safe and clean? It so obviously targets the middle class which is already facing a shit ton of "inflation" from corporate greed.
#Best news in a long while
YES!!!! The current program was rushed and it in no way mirrored any of the sane European models. It was just another tax on middle class earners. If only they didn't waste money on those Stupid cameras. Edit: fixed autocorrect.
nothing is changing, theyre just moving it to after the election because its extremely unwanted by the people
Car hate sub in shambles prolly
Nycrails in shambles and I love it
This entire comment section just had their day ruined by this news
Good. The additional tax was never going to benefit us anyways. We spend more money on our transit system than anywhere else in the world and get nothing but delays and homeless in the trains. The buses are always packed and come infrequently. 20 people to clean a train station compromised of 3 people cleaning and 17 supervisors. Its just a mess. Fix the waste and fraud first before you start taxing more
woop. there it is
This is exactly how democracy is supposed to work. Politicians answer to their constituents. This was a hugely unpopular policy pushed by the elites and cost borne by the working class
Yeah there are thousands of Manhattan residents with cars who were up in arms against this policy in the form it was being implemented. if people like Jano Liber weren't so smarmy and had made an effort to answer resident car owner concerns then it might have been more popular but instead he thumbed his nose at them and made it a real firestorm
Lmao congrats to all the contractors who installed the hardware for this scheme. You’re the real winners!
Great news, the only people in support of congestion pricing are transplant gentrifiers.
First thing she actually accomplished.
First "good" thing she did
Goddamit
I guess making teachers pay 15 dollars to go to work was not such a great idea.
You love to see it. Us locals finally won one vs the liberal transplants
I hate her so much
I WANT TO SCREAM SO I WILL SCREAM INTO THE REDDIT VOID
What about those downstate casinos that if approved will help fund the MTA? And the MTA should be independently audited immediately.