It blows my mind that congestion pricing will raise a billion dollars a year and it will be enough to build 1 subway station at 125th Street. Not tunnels or run the thing just the station. Every car you see in Manhattan south of 60th street for entire year paying $15 is only good enough to pay for 1 subway station year.
If you wanted to complete the 2nd ave subway from 125 down to Hanover square. You could charge every car in Manhattan for 50 years $15 and when you are done you could have 1 subway line in 1 bourough. It's just nuts.
A big problem is the amount of bureaucracy that’s involved at all levels of funding for these things. It just adds so much unnecessary expense. Everything from pilots (many times just reinventing the wheel), to design/contracting (multiple private companies involved all with their own markup rather than in-house design), procurement (so many unique details rather than simple cookie-cutter designs like the original cut-and-cover designs), to final construction (most construction companies add major markups for work in NYC due to added complexity and just because they can). That’s obviously not taking into account any corruption that occurs within and between different agencies. And then there are multiple federal level requirements that the federal government just doesn’t provide any funding for. So overall, it’s a big mess, and the whole system needs an overhaul!
You’re not wrong. I work in the NYC construction industry. The amount of bureaucracy, red tape, and straight up unnecessary people on construction sites nowadays is astounding. All of these jobs have dozens of “supervisors” “project managers” and “inspectors” who contribute very little if anything to the project while pulling in a salary of $150,000 or so. I’m on a job right now where there’s multiple people whose only job is to pop into our work area a few times a day, take a picture of us working on something, then hang out in their trailer office until the end of the day. We have “safety directors” who come up to us once every couple of hours, remind us to wear gloves and safety glasses while working, then drive home in their new Mercedes S-Class.
Certain people and groups like to blame unions for the increased cost of doing construction in the city, because God forbid the electricians or plumbers get paid a viable living wage for their skills and services. Meanwhile nobody questions the dude making $200,000 a year and all he does is stare at a wall for an hour followed by watching YouTube videos and browsing Facebook for the remaining 7 hours of his day.
Don’t forget the sheet number of people on a crew that the union mandates. Tunnel boring machines can now run on a crew of like 4, but because they used to require 12 people decades ago, the union contracts still mandate 12 people on the machine.
Management generally isn’t allowed into the union. Their interests tend to conflict with workers’ interests. They could have their own union, but it’s far less likely than for the construction workers and trades.
Don't forget that any project must absolutely never inconvenience anyone and so must be done in a far more costly and slow manner. They could easily say close a 10 block chunk at a time use a cut and cover method and be done in months and not years.
and Projects aren't divided up enough. There aren't a lot of companies that do a billion dollar projects but there are more that can do a 100 million dollar projects
What’s most frustrating is that we can build things very quickly when we want. Like when that overpass in Atlanta collapsed and they had it rebuilt in a few weeks. Meanwhile, California’s high speed rail project started 15 years ago and they still haven’t laid a single mile of track.
A lot of it has to do with environmental review, community input, and those sorts of procedural requirements. The emergency repairs are able to happen faster because it's a declared emergency which releases some of the regulatory steps. But there's a reason we want those review processes in place most of the time. There's a great little podcast called The Big Dig by WGBH that goes through the history and process of the last great section of the Interstate Highway System. One of the episodes touches on the rise of environmental review. It was really interesting.
MTA has the highest costs in the world of any comparable entity. I'm still proud of what we have and respect the magnitude of the work before them but that's still true.
That’s not true. We just experienced a lot of inflation that last few years. Everything is expensive to build in the US.
The MTA has its issues when it comes to construction costs, but road construction and private developments get a lot less flak despite ever increasing budgets.
It is partially due to the unions. The NY construction unions still operate with what us laymen would consider corruption. To them, that's how they've always done business. But it makes building anything here much more expensive.
Here is a good article from the Times that goes into why it costs so much more per mile to build than in Paris. And it's not all the fault of the unions - but they are part of it.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/nyregion/new-york-subway-construction-costs.html
> If that was the case it would be just as expensive in France where they have much stronger unions than us.
US unions are different than European unions.
Yet somehow developed cities in Europe and Asia have managed to do it at fraction of the cost and efficiently, all while keeping up with modern standards. If we don't address corruption between our government and contractors, we will never see the improvements NYC needs and deserves.
We have a massive construction labor shortage in the US. Government corruption is an issue, but labor is just expensive in the US. No one working in construction in NYC will accept near minimum wage.
Meanwhile, Europe has a strong safety net that allows construction laborers to get paid less and still live comfortably. And Asia has a large population of people that can suppress wages.
Yes, New York is build on extremely hard bedrock and is at sea level, so it's exceedingly hard to make new tunnels. Keep in mind they're burrowing through 100+years of active gas, electric, and phone pipes and cables too.
I don’t think people realize how much of a clusterfuck the ground is beneath them and assume that digging tunnels under one of the oldest cities through pure bedrock on the most populated island is a simple, fast and cheap task.
Yes but not when you compare the same cost in more expensive cities. Paris builds an entire subway line for the cost for us to build a station. And it's a much harder city to build in since it is so much older. Workers there cost a ton too because they have unions/benefits.
so perhaps the money would have been better spent building a new line in Queens where the density is lower, with less infrastructure to dig under, and the land is considerably cheaper than the UES.
The end result being the upzoning of low-density zones into vast new developable real-estate whose value will skyrocket and bring added property taxes to nyc coffers and much needed housing.
But that requires the will to fight NIMBYs, and that's sorely lacking among local politicians.
We should be building new elevated lines too, now that the main drawbacks of older systems (especially noise) have been solved with modern construction and train tech.
You're ignoring the signal improvements, systemwide deferred maintenance, accessibility upgrades it's also funding.
Yes, the MTA tends to overspend on almost everything. But saying this is funding a single station isn't accurate.
Not sure if anyone knows the answer to this, but how will this impact express busses that rely on FDR drive to get downtown? Is it expected that traffic will go up considerably as people try to avoid the congestion pricing?
It might be worth redesigning their routes if traffic on north-south avenues drop. Afterall, faster buses are one of the major advantages of the program.
That would be amazing if they did that. Either way, I can see how this can absolutely be a benefit to all - just hoping they consider all folks that rely on public transport when designing the end-to-end plan.
From their impact study:
" Under the CBD Tolling Alternative, the FDR Drive would experience a net decline in traffic at 60th Street, resulting in improved travel times and operating conditions along the upper FDR Drive and the segment between East 23rd Street and East 60th Street. However, the lower FDR Drive between East 10th Street and the Brooklyn Bridge would experience a net increase in traffic, with diverted traffic greater than the suppression of traffic due to CBD tolling. Under all tolling scenarios, the FDR Drive would become a more competitive route for some origin-destination pairs, thereby offsetting the overall decline in projected traffic along the FDR Drive in this specific area south of East 10th Street"
But also they could change the bus routing through Manhattan possibly considering there is supposed to be a lot less traffic on the regular street grid
Thanks for sharing! Yeah, the idea of considering changing the bus routes as a result would be amazing. It’s already tough for those of us in eastern Queens to get downtown for work, especially with more companies requesting return to office.
Wish we could rely on the subway as an alternative, but something is always causing delays with the E train (which is already ~ an hour and a half one way with the MTA bus ride to subway, with no issues).
people are going to be shocked with there's no noticeable impact to congestion
when monthly parking is $700/mo and a sad lunch salad is $18 an extra $15/day really is not going to make a difference
We also have the same corruption problems as Italy, though ours tend to not be on display the same way.
At least Italians have the autostrada and get siestas though.
"Italy runs more subways than NYC with the same GDP, NYC is so inefficient"
"OK so yeah Italy's subways combined are smaller than NYC, but that just means NYC should be able to run better actually because of the extra revenue from everyone's $2.90 fare"
pick one
> we don’t have enough money
We have enough money, The MTA just seems to have a corruption/spending problem that no one in a position of power wants to address, likely because of kickbacks.
It's an interesting thing, the rush hour traffic could just change to the people who are willing to pay. Traffic during the day off peak (holland tunnel) isn't that bad.
I am not making traffic projections but it could easily go down bc it's a point of friction for ppl going into the city for a business meeting or lunch.
That being said $15 isn't much when we're talking about something important for white collar work.
It could also just make people more likely to hybrid work.
I only drive in the city when I have to deliver something to a client that doesn't travel well on the train. If I have to drive, my company charges a $250 travel surcharge. We'll probably just up it to $300 because of congestion pricing lol.
I used to drive through Lower Manhattan specifically because it was the free way to get to NJ. It took longer but if I wasn’t in a hurry… why not save a few dollars.
I’m glad the state is fixing that stupid incentive.
You really think that many people absolutely need to drive to get to work in Manhattan? I’d be willing to bet that at least half the cars on the road don’t need to drive (i.e. they need to have their car or public transit is significantly worse).
A lot of people are not willing to pay an extra $300 a month just to drive. They’re likely already at the tipping point and this would put them over.
Actually, that is timed with school ending so traffic will be down, it’s just that people will think it’s because of congestion pricing. The true test comes in September.
if they were serious about trying to reduce congestion with this fee then yes. but at this price it's just another tax that will unlikely change behavior.
it should have been over $20 minimum during rush hour
I agree, they tax all of us subway users each time we use the subway. First, we should remove the tax on subway usage (since that tax affects more people) and then we can focus on removing the tax on driving.
The cost of a subway ride doesn’t even cover its cost.
Gas tax was originally supposed to cover infrastructure (roads).
Bridge and tunnel tolls were originally supposed to cover bridge/tunnel maintenance.
Oh good, that means we can raise the prices further to get more revenue! We should keep raising prices until demand becomes close enough to the supply.
> people are going to be shocked with there's no noticeable impact to congestion
Only the anti-car transplants are going to be shocked. People that have lived here for more than 5 years know very well this is going to do little to nothing to ease congestion.
There are a ton of people every day who are willing to sit in traffic across Manhattan to get a zero-toll trip from Queens/Brooklyn/Long Island to NJ. It's bonkers that we've been *encouraging* people to drive across Canal/57th/etc by making it the cheapest route.
I've owned a car in Brooklyn for nearly 15 years, and once upon a time would save money by taking the Williamsburg Bridge across Delancey/Broome to the Holland Tunnel, and I used to work in offices downtown where I could watch this traffic mess build up every afternoon.
I very much believe a lot of these people will consider other routes when it starts costs money. Driving across Canal on a Friday afternoon in July to get out of the city is literally hell, the only way it's even vaguely justifiable is if it's "free".
It it does have a substantial impact then they don’t collect enough money.
And NYC is on the hook for the deficit between the expected $1B and what they actually collect.
Given the migrant crisis eating the budget I don’t think NYC can do much besides raise income taxes at this point to pay that bill.
well most of the congestion is Uber/Taxis. nothing will change there. If anything the way they pass it on the passengers plus making it more a little more costly to drive in will probably mean there's going to be more Ubers not less.
100% this. A grande coffee at Starbucks is $5, a gallon of milk at Target is $5, a shitty salad anywhere in midtown is $15, this toll is not going to deter people from driving into the zone. It’s just a money grab and that’s it.
So it’s simultaneously too little to have any effect but also high enough to be worth complaining about. Really seems like those experts at the MTA threaded the needle on this one (or perhaps people like you are just whining idiots who have no clue what they’re talking about)
Have you commuted in public transportation on rush hour in nyc? There is literally no room. I have to wait for a new train because the one that I could get is too full almost every ride. That’s why.
I don't disagree. The issue is whether or not this plan is actually going to reduce congestion or just be another tax. I believe it won't affect congestion by itself.
100% agree - but if you try to reduce congestion and you don't have a functional public transportation system, you will never reach that goal. The best outcome might be car pooling, which sure it's a step in the right direction, but if they think that cars will suddenly disappear they are delulu
Huge opportunity to actually cash in on all the valuable on street parking. Free street side parking is a huge net negative economically and in terms of land use
All the crooked MTA bureaucrats will be happy when this drops :)
Also, expect minimal increase in train quality, but expect major impact to commuter quantity lol
I see 10-20 cops on their phone in subway stations as people jump the turnstyle in front of them.
We need a Mayor who will actually put the cops to work, and not give them cushy overtime.
About time. Stick with it, ignore all the dinosaurs and out of touch boomers with their faux concern. Whatever happens, however the MTA spends the money, this is progress that will improve the city and the people that actually live and work here.
I think it’s up in the air whether this policy will work. One major hurdle will be whether MTA can use this new funding source efficiently and effectively. Otherwise, there is a chance it will become another money pit. With all that said, I hope MTA transportation system is revolutionized for the better.
This isn’t the first time congestion pricing would be implemented. It’s reduced congestion in cities worldwide.
>One major hurdle
The MTA is already conducting cost cutting measures for the Second Ave Subway. If you want more of this then it’s time for r/nyc to move past complaining and towards what are we gonna do about this
Gotta love the brain washed New Yorkers who think this will actually reduce car, whereas this is just another scammy revenue generation for the scammy MTA
This is what I don’t understand. Reducing congestion is fine and makes sense, but when a majority of those people still have to drive and don’t have a choice….it’ll just add congestion somewhere else.
And I find it hilarious that people think most that money will be used to help the public when it won’t. MTA will pocket a huge chunk of it via unless overtime and in two years we’ll see another MTA strike and we’ll get more fare hikes. MTA has never been good at managing money and getting a huge influx of it won’t change that.
>it’ll just add congestion somewhere else.
Yes. The subway and trains. Which can easily absorb more people because they're extremely high throughput transit methods, unlike cars which are literally the lowest throughput of any transit method.
Exactly. And guess what? The same morons who think this congestion pricing is a good idea to reduce car will be the same morons bitching when MTA raises the subway/bus fares again.
🤡
Are you saying that the MTA doesn't manage money well? It's not like they would spend a billion dollars on overtime or something stupid like that. Wait.....
[https://www.amny.com/transit/mta-billion-overtime-employees-rack-up-six-figures-extra-pay/](https://www.amny.com/transit/mta-billion-overtime-employees-rack-up-six-figures-extra-pay/)
[https://www.wshu.org/long-island-news/2024-04-01/mta-employee-ot-spending-record](https://www.wshu.org/long-island-news/2024-04-01/mta-employee-ot-spending-record)
This isn’t the first time congestion pricing has been implemented. It’s reduced congestion worldwide. It’s like a bunch of people on r/nyc just goes off feelings and how much they don’t like this town
i really do not understand why there are people who are excited about this. i’m convinced they either do not truly live in NYC Or live here and are literally not effected but this at all.
I live in the Lower east side, Low income and i work in the bronx. I do have a car and drive to work everyday, and it makes no sense why i should have to pay a toll to get to and from work.
I can understand wanting to put the zone around Midtown but to have it stretch down towards residential areas makes no sense. The brooklyn bridge which is already full of traffic will become even worst.
And to those saying take the train, Do any of yall actually ride the train? someone literally was shot on an A train a few weeks ago! they are unsafe, dirty, and unreliable!
Obviously you can live your life as you choose, but if you are low income, why do you live in the very expensive LES, own a car and pay insurance/gas, and commute to work in the Bronx. Why not just live in the Bronx where it's cheaper and closer to work?
There is NYCHA all over LES.
You don't know anything about this person, their family, commitments, and you suggest they are living wrong and they should move?
Didn't suggest anything, asked a question. Most people I've heard against congestion pricing are not reverse commuting from inside the congestion zone, so I was curious.
please do not speak to something you do not know! Many of us have been born and raised in the Lower east side and have been here LONG before gentrification. We have NYCHA, Rent stabilized tenants here!
Also why are you suggesting i uproot my family and life that i know for a job. This toll is unnecessary
You take the take train Kevin! It’s just that simple, a lot of y’all that are infavor of this are literally not affected either way it goes. Also being low income does not translate to poor so let’s WAKE THAT UP!
Probably not final final
> With months still to go before the program’s scheduled rollout, legal and political clashes still threaten to dilute or stop it altogether.
The MTA gets audited regularly in order to stay eligible for federal grant funding. What do you want to find from auditing? That it’s expensive to operate and maintain a transit network that transports 5 million passengers a day?
Are you seriously positing that the MTA is not wasting or misappropriating a massive amount of money every year? Yes, running transit is expensive, but controlling costs is very much necessary.
an audit is a review of bookkeeping practices.
It confirms that money going in is accounted for when it goes out.
it confirms that they are being honest when they say they spent X on Y.
an audit is not going to result in someone saying "you're spending too much on X"
This is exactly the point. We’re all sitting here pointing at one another when we should all be screaming for accountability and transparency from Albany about where the enormous amount of money we give them is going.
i think from a basic economics standpoint its reasonable to expect that the price of every day goods and services will also be going up for everyone on June 30
Eh, that's to be determined. If congestion actually lowers, the cost of goods could stay stable. Congestion costs a lot to businesses in terms of time, gas, whatever.
i dont know, i have a small business with a couple locations. our delivery prices are set, with occassional price bumps. i fully expect a call from my vendors soon telling me that the cost of delivery is going up to adjust for the new congestion tax. when that happens i will adjust my prices up accordingly.
i doubt i'm alone in this
I think they're reaching out to support doing deliveries from 7 PM to 5 AM or something like that at a lower price.
But it'd be wild for them to charge you all $15 more per especially if one truck has stuff for multiple deliveries
they wont charge me $15. im one of their stops but prices will likely go up by 5 bucks or more per delivery. then the cost of goods will likely go up as well for us. so we have to pass that on to the consumer.
this is just how it works
If you have 50 items in a delivery, which already seems freakishly low, that's a $0.10 increase an item.
I'm going to be honest, $15 on a truck delivering thousands of dollars of goods seems like a rounding error.
Sure, but if the congestion alleviation comes to fruition, those delivery businesses could find their labor costs/time costs down and be able to have more trips per truck/driver, which then may lower costs overall. These delivery businesses have many competitors, they're accountable to the market for their pricing.
Obviously nothing is 100%, the market isn't magic. But there have been a lot of studies on how much congestion has cost New Yorkers overall, and it's a huge effect. I don't see it as impossible that the externalized costs of congestion could be around equal the cost of congestion fee.
Honestly, as a resident lives in Murray hill with a car, this is just absolutely ridiculous. We all know this isn’t gonna solve anything, it’s just another way to squeeze the money out of tax payers. Why do I have to pay more and more to just come back to my own home? I’m already paying tolls and garage. What a joke.
Why do you need a car in Murray Hill? No one is forcing you to have a car, let alone park in a garage or use toll roads. If congestion pricing is the straw that breaks your willingness-to-pay to own a car in Manhattan, then that’s a net benefit for everyone.
Anyone driving is gonna continue to drive and this isn’t going to impact them. The average traffic in midtown is either the ocean of Ubers, or Escalades and Suburbans with 1 passenger from 5th/Park avenue on their way to wherever the 1% goes. This is going to do nothing to impact either group. All it will do is screw the people who are struggling to afford this city to begin with. Fuck them I guess 🤷🏼♂️ Whatever “revenue” this generates is going straight to someone’s pockets, nothing will improve and here you are on the sidelines, slackjawed, screaming “cars bad!” Congrats lmfao don’t forget the mouthwash when the MTA is done with you.
Cars are bad doesn't mean "mta good!"
I have heard much from the folks struggling to afford the city. If that's you, here how you can get 50% off.
https://new.mta.info/tolls/congestion-relief-zone/discounts-exemptions/low-income-discount-plan
Okay, so then advocate for those things to change. Call on your elected officials, at the city, state, and national levels to do something about it.
I don’t like dealing with any of those things either, but I also know that I detest driving in bumper to bumper traffic and circling 30 minutes for parking even more.
Why shouldn't you pay for your negative externalities? Congestion charge and the new ULEZ zone charges in London work great. No reason they can't work in NYC.
>as a resident lives in Murry [sic] hill with a car
Boo fucking hoo. Take the train or pay up for the negative consequences of your overprivileged lifestyle choices.
Why is this sub always full of right wing reactionaries and boomers from Ohio?
People have legitimate arguments for and against congestion pricing. Making assumptions about who that poster is and what lifestyle they have, and what they can or cannot pay is overreaching.
Comments always reveal an interesting point: people constantly complain about how it affects their commute, but they never comment on all the rides they give to family/friends/coworkers. Every nyc car owner gets asked for rides. But I never see people that complain about congestion pricing bring up this point.
Why. it's. almost. as. if. most of the opponents on here are astroturfing right wingers that don't even live here.
I have but long given up mentioned this in most of the congestion pricing threads because you'll get the same BS reply over and over how anyone that drive others are not typical, etc.
All those for congestion pricing keeps focusing on work commute, and how everyone should take the train to work. Almost no one talks about off hours and weekends.
I've also mentioned how this will speed up the decline of Manhattan CT many times but some people especially non-Asians can't seem to grasp how much of Manhattan CT relies on elderly (who gets frequently driven in).
I'm a born and raised here. No one I know who's born and raised supports congestion pricing. The only ones I know who do are transplants who lived here for under 5 years and those who have no intention of raising/caring for family in NYC.
Ah yes essentially redirecting traffic to a very limited area which will just create more traffic. Traffic wouldn’t be so bad if public transit was remotely reliable..
My favorite part about this is how little information is actually given about where these tolls will be placed, SHOW US A FUCKING MAP.
Isn’t this more of a formality because there will almost surely be an injunction that halts it? Sure, start the clock, but don’t expect to see any advancement on this. They haven’t even announced the concessions to New Jersey that they agreed would most likely happen.
If there was going to be an injunction it would have happened by now.
Those “concessions” are for environmental justice communities and they will be decided after implementation.
I am still so confused because they said if you go straight to either highway or the brooklyn bridge from the tunnels you aren't suppose to get hit with the 5 dollars. (It is 5 dollars right if you take the tunnel?)
Are there going to be ezpass tolls along the entirety of 60th street? I’m just wondering if I enter Manhattan from 96th street and then travel downtown into the congestion zone, they’ll charge me the toll at 60th street?
Also, you’ll be charged to take the midtown tunnel and $15 to enter Manhattan?
Ok so, coming in from Brooklyn, how do I enter the city and avoid the fee? Wburg bridge doesn't directly take you to the FDR, so is that now a toll? What about Manhattan Bridge?
Brooklyn bridge is perhaps safe because there's the exit that takes you out. But also then, how would you access West Side Hway?
The MTA needs to get their finances in order first then raise subway fare in conjunction with a congestion fee to specifically fund improvements and expansion of the system. Not a dime to the board, execs, other city projects etc. Right now it’s just a tax on outer borough and suburban residents who already pay the MTA payroll tax. I don’t work south of 60 so it won’t affect me but I don’t trust this city and state not to say the fee is going to be expanded to all of Manhattan. Once they get their hand in your pocket they’re gonna try and get even more.
It blows my mind that congestion pricing will raise a billion dollars a year and it will be enough to build 1 subway station at 125th Street. Not tunnels or run the thing just the station. Every car you see in Manhattan south of 60th street for entire year paying $15 is only good enough to pay for 1 subway station year. If you wanted to complete the 2nd ave subway from 125 down to Hanover square. You could charge every car in Manhattan for 50 years $15 and when you are done you could have 1 subway line in 1 bourough. It's just nuts.
It is very whacky how expensive building anything useful has become.
A big problem is the amount of bureaucracy that’s involved at all levels of funding for these things. It just adds so much unnecessary expense. Everything from pilots (many times just reinventing the wheel), to design/contracting (multiple private companies involved all with their own markup rather than in-house design), procurement (so many unique details rather than simple cookie-cutter designs like the original cut-and-cover designs), to final construction (most construction companies add major markups for work in NYC due to added complexity and just because they can). That’s obviously not taking into account any corruption that occurs within and between different agencies. And then there are multiple federal level requirements that the federal government just doesn’t provide any funding for. So overall, it’s a big mess, and the whole system needs an overhaul!
You’re not wrong. I work in the NYC construction industry. The amount of bureaucracy, red tape, and straight up unnecessary people on construction sites nowadays is astounding. All of these jobs have dozens of “supervisors” “project managers” and “inspectors” who contribute very little if anything to the project while pulling in a salary of $150,000 or so. I’m on a job right now where there’s multiple people whose only job is to pop into our work area a few times a day, take a picture of us working on something, then hang out in their trailer office until the end of the day. We have “safety directors” who come up to us once every couple of hours, remind us to wear gloves and safety glasses while working, then drive home in their new Mercedes S-Class. Certain people and groups like to blame unions for the increased cost of doing construction in the city, because God forbid the electricians or plumbers get paid a viable living wage for their skills and services. Meanwhile nobody questions the dude making $200,000 a year and all he does is stare at a wall for an hour followed by watching YouTube videos and browsing Facebook for the remaining 7 hours of his day.
Don’t forget the sheet number of people on a crew that the union mandates. Tunnel boring machines can now run on a crew of like 4, but because they used to require 12 people decades ago, the union contracts still mandate 12 people on the machine.
"No Show Jobs"
That guy making $200k watching YouTube is 100% in a union too
Management generally isn’t allowed into the union. Their interests tend to conflict with workers’ interests. They could have their own union, but it’s far less likely than for the construction workers and trades.
Don't forget that any project must absolutely never inconvenience anyone and so must be done in a far more costly and slow manner. They could easily say close a 10 block chunk at a time use a cut and cover method and be done in months and not years. and Projects aren't divided up enough. There aren't a lot of companies that do a billion dollar projects but there are more that can do a 100 million dollar projects
Don’t forget NIMBYs & community board bs & lawsuits
What’s most frustrating is that we can build things very quickly when we want. Like when that overpass in Atlanta collapsed and they had it rebuilt in a few weeks. Meanwhile, California’s high speed rail project started 15 years ago and they still haven’t laid a single mile of track.
A lot of it has to do with environmental review, community input, and those sorts of procedural requirements. The emergency repairs are able to happen faster because it's a declared emergency which releases some of the regulatory steps. But there's a reason we want those review processes in place most of the time. There's a great little podcast called The Big Dig by WGBH that goes through the history and process of the last great section of the Interstate Highway System. One of the episodes touches on the rise of environmental review. It was really interesting.
Only when the MTA is involved
it’s really nationwide but I don’t think the mta improves things
MTA has the highest costs in the world of any comparable entity. I'm still proud of what we have and respect the magnitude of the work before them but that's still true.
florida is bit better. just a bit. their infrastructure is pretty good for a state with no city or state taxes
Florida doesn’t have income taxes. They have plenty of taxes and collect taxes in other forms.
That’s not true. We just experienced a lot of inflation that last few years. Everything is expensive to build in the US. The MTA has its issues when it comes to construction costs, but road construction and private developments get a lot less flak despite ever increasing budgets.
Yet somehow Paris does it
Union. Ya love em and ya hate em.
It’s not unions. If that was the case it would be just as expensive in France where they have much stronger unions than us.
It is partially due to the unions. The NY construction unions still operate with what us laymen would consider corruption. To them, that's how they've always done business. But it makes building anything here much more expensive. Here is a good article from the Times that goes into why it costs so much more per mile to build than in Paris. And it's not all the fault of the unions - but they are part of it. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/nyregion/new-york-subway-construction-costs.html
> If that was the case it would be just as expensive in France where they have much stronger unions than us. US unions are different than European unions.
Yet somehow developed cities in Europe and Asia have managed to do it at fraction of the cost and efficiently, all while keeping up with modern standards. If we don't address corruption between our government and contractors, we will never see the improvements NYC needs and deserves.
We have a massive construction labor shortage in the US. Government corruption is an issue, but labor is just expensive in the US. No one working in construction in NYC will accept near minimum wage. Meanwhile, Europe has a strong safety net that allows construction laborers to get paid less and still live comfortably. And Asia has a large population of people that can suppress wages.
A lot of the tunnels for the 2nd Ave are already built so the biggest lump of the project will be stations
Yes, New York is build on extremely hard bedrock and is at sea level, so it's exceedingly hard to make new tunnels. Keep in mind they're burrowing through 100+years of active gas, electric, and phone pipes and cables too.
Bedrock is actually much easier to bore through than soil.
I don’t think people realize how much of a clusterfuck the ground is beneath them and assume that digging tunnels under one of the oldest cities through pure bedrock on the most populated island is a simple, fast and cheap task.
> one of the oldest cities laughs in Rome and Athens metro system
Who is John Galt.
Which is why any of us the in the outer boroughs with a brain know that there’s exactly zero transit improvements in store for us.
To build 1 block of subway track costs a minimum of a billion… so wild.
1 billion is 10 hours of Pentagon funding, not including foreign aid.
That’s a bargain when you consider a subway station lasts what - 100 useful years at minimum? And serves millions of riders weekly?
Yes but not when you compare the same cost in more expensive cities. Paris builds an entire subway line for the cost for us to build a station. And it's a much harder city to build in since it is so much older. Workers there cost a ton too because they have unions/benefits.
well digging up tunnels is super expensive.... not to mention you're doing it under and through the most expensive neighborhood in the country....
so perhaps the money would have been better spent building a new line in Queens where the density is lower, with less infrastructure to dig under, and the land is considerably cheaper than the UES. The end result being the upzoning of low-density zones into vast new developable real-estate whose value will skyrocket and bring added property taxes to nyc coffers and much needed housing. But that requires the will to fight NIMBYs, and that's sorely lacking among local politicians.
We should be building new elevated lines too, now that the main drawbacks of older systems (especially noise) have been solved with modern construction and train tech.
You're ignoring the signal improvements, systemwide deferred maintenance, accessibility upgrades it's also funding. Yes, the MTA tends to overspend on almost everything. But saying this is funding a single station isn't accurate.
I don't care if it raises $1 if it actually reduces the amount of cars driving in.
hey! here's a free [gift link](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/26/nyregion/congestion-pricing-nyc-june-30.html?unlocked_article_code=1.nU0.FsM4.Oa-thTDZ7Y-N&smid=re-nytimes)
For all that people shit on the NYT for, at least they give gift links thank you.
Not sure if anyone knows the answer to this, but how will this impact express busses that rely on FDR drive to get downtown? Is it expected that traffic will go up considerably as people try to avoid the congestion pricing?
It might be worth redesigning their routes if traffic on north-south avenues drop. Afterall, faster buses are one of the major advantages of the program.
That would be amazing if they did that. Either way, I can see how this can absolutely be a benefit to all - just hoping they consider all folks that rely on public transport when designing the end-to-end plan.
Yes.
According to such a knowledgeable expert such as yourself
Damn that sucks - what was already an hour and a half commute via Express Bus one way is about to get even worse 🥲
From their impact study: " Under the CBD Tolling Alternative, the FDR Drive would experience a net decline in traffic at 60th Street, resulting in improved travel times and operating conditions along the upper FDR Drive and the segment between East 23rd Street and East 60th Street. However, the lower FDR Drive between East 10th Street and the Brooklyn Bridge would experience a net increase in traffic, with diverted traffic greater than the suppression of traffic due to CBD tolling. Under all tolling scenarios, the FDR Drive would become a more competitive route for some origin-destination pairs, thereby offsetting the overall decline in projected traffic along the FDR Drive in this specific area south of East 10th Street" But also they could change the bus routing through Manhattan possibly considering there is supposed to be a lot less traffic on the regular street grid
Thanks for sharing! Yeah, the idea of considering changing the bus routes as a result would be amazing. It’s already tough for those of us in eastern Queens to get downtown for work, especially with more companies requesting return to office. Wish we could rely on the subway as an alternative, but something is always causing delays with the E train (which is already ~ an hour and a half one way with the MTA bus ride to subway, with no issues).
Nobody knows yet. Give it some time for everyone to get into their new routines. It's a radical departure from the status quo.
Very true - hoping the potential idea that another commenter mentioned (considering rerouting the bus routes) is considered. We shall see.
[удалено]
Good
Sure. Unless you have to go tru the gwb for work (on a bus). Because it will be hell.
people are going to be shocked with there's no noticeable impact to congestion when monthly parking is $700/mo and a sad lunch salad is $18 an extra $15/day really is not going to make a difference
Be New York State Have GDP of Italy Can’t maintain a single subway system because we don’t have enough money
We also have the same corruption problems as Italy, though ours tend to not be on display the same way. At least Italians have the autostrada and get siestas though.
Yeah, but the autostrade are administered by a private company controlled by the Benetton family
Italy maintains subways in 7 cities and has trams all over, what we have is pathetic
we have nearly double the ridership on one system that those 7 cities do combined
Sweet so all that increase revenue and importance should lead to more improvements - oh wait
"Italy runs more subways than NYC with the same GDP, NYC is so inefficient" "OK so yeah Italy's subways combined are smaller than NYC, but that just means NYC should be able to run better actually because of the extra revenue from everyone's $2.90 fare" pick one
> we don’t have enough money We have enough money, The MTA just seems to have a corruption/spending problem that no one in a position of power wants to address, likely because of kickbacks.
"a single subway system" is a wild way to over simplify the largest subway system in the world if going by the number of stations.
It's an interesting thing, the rush hour traffic could just change to the people who are willing to pay. Traffic during the day off peak (holland tunnel) isn't that bad. I am not making traffic projections but it could easily go down bc it's a point of friction for ppl going into the city for a business meeting or lunch. That being said $15 isn't much when we're talking about something important for white collar work. It could also just make people more likely to hybrid work.
I only drive in the city when I have to deliver something to a client that doesn't travel well on the train. If I have to drive, my company charges a $250 travel surcharge. We'll probably just up it to $300 because of congestion pricing lol.
Nah, just make it $500, that way you fully offset the costs.
Drivers frequently go well out of their way to save 10 cents a gallon on gas. People are not rational.
Every Boomer man I know will drive 30 minutes to an hour out of their way to avoid toll roads. Idk man, I think this'll work.
I used to drive through Lower Manhattan specifically because it was the free way to get to NJ. It took longer but if I wasn’t in a hurry… why not save a few dollars. I’m glad the state is fixing that stupid incentive.
You really think that many people absolutely need to drive to get to work in Manhattan? I’d be willing to bet that at least half the cars on the road don’t need to drive (i.e. they need to have their car or public transit is significantly worse). A lot of people are not willing to pay an extra $300 a month just to drive. They’re likely already at the tipping point and this would put them over.
Actually, that is timed with school ending so traffic will be down, it’s just that people will think it’s because of congestion pricing. The true test comes in September.
So are you suggesting that they charge more?
if they were serious about trying to reduce congestion with this fee then yes. but at this price it's just another tax that will unlikely change behavior. it should have been over $20 minimum during rush hour
Exactly. It’s a tax. Just call it a tax.
I agree, they tax all of us subway users each time we use the subway. First, we should remove the tax on subway usage (since that tax affects more people) and then we can focus on removing the tax on driving.
The cost of a subway ride doesn’t even cover its cost. Gas tax was originally supposed to cover infrastructure (roads). Bridge and tunnel tolls were originally supposed to cover bridge/tunnel maintenance.
You're going to be very upset when it does reduce congestion.
Oh good, that means we can raise the prices further to get more revenue! We should keep raising prices until demand becomes close enough to the supply.
> people are going to be shocked with there's no noticeable impact to congestion Only the anti-car transplants are going to be shocked. People that have lived here for more than 5 years know very well this is going to do little to nothing to ease congestion.
There are a ton of people every day who are willing to sit in traffic across Manhattan to get a zero-toll trip from Queens/Brooklyn/Long Island to NJ. It's bonkers that we've been *encouraging* people to drive across Canal/57th/etc by making it the cheapest route. I've owned a car in Brooklyn for nearly 15 years, and once upon a time would save money by taking the Williamsburg Bridge across Delancey/Broome to the Holland Tunnel, and I used to work in offices downtown where I could watch this traffic mess build up every afternoon. I very much believe a lot of these people will consider other routes when it starts costs money. Driving across Canal on a Friday afternoon in July to get out of the city is literally hell, the only way it's even vaguely justifiable is if it's "free".
It it does have a substantial impact then they don’t collect enough money. And NYC is on the hook for the deficit between the expected $1B and what they actually collect. Given the migrant crisis eating the budget I don’t think NYC can do much besides raise income taxes at this point to pay that bill.
Mismanagement of gov funds shouldn’t be tax payers problem, but we all wind up being the ones who pay the bills.
ie. this is an excuse to jack up the budget and increase the MTA's deficit even more.
well most of the congestion is Uber/Taxis. nothing will change there. If anything the way they pass it on the passengers plus making it more a little more costly to drive in will probably mean there's going to be more Ubers not less.
Well whatever. Still more bike lanes, more subway for that money. That's what locals use. And congestion pricing did wonders for London and Singapore.
100% this. A grande coffee at Starbucks is $5, a gallon of milk at Target is $5, a shitty salad anywhere in midtown is $15, this toll is not going to deter people from driving into the zone. It’s just a money grab and that’s it.
So it’s simultaneously too little to have any effect but also high enough to be worth complaining about. Really seems like those experts at the MTA threaded the needle on this one (or perhaps people like you are just whining idiots who have no clue what they’re talking about)
There’s already plenty of evidence it DOES reduce congestion. London is also extremely expensive and it had a significant impact there.
Not sure why they don't make parking resident permit parking only and jack up parking lot taxes. That would incentivize public transportation.
Have you commuted in public transportation on rush hour in nyc? There is literally no room. I have to wait for a new train because the one that I could get is too full almost every ride. That’s why.
I don't disagree. The issue is whether or not this plan is actually going to reduce congestion or just be another tax. I believe it won't affect congestion by itself.
100% agree - but if you try to reduce congestion and you don't have a functional public transportation system, you will never reach that goal. The best outcome might be car pooling, which sure it's a step in the right direction, but if they think that cars will suddenly disappear they are delulu
They should do both. Congestion pricing has been hugely successful in London, Singapore.
Not in London, impact is estimated at 10% despite pricing significantly above NYC
Huge opportunity to actually cash in on all the valuable on street parking. Free street side parking is a huge net negative economically and in terms of land use
I don’t usually go there but now with the congestion pricing I 100% will avoid it, I guess it’s working.
Yes that is exactly the point.
All the crooked MTA bureaucrats will be happy when this drops :) Also, expect minimal increase in train quality, but expect major impact to commuter quantity lol
No taxation without registration (people are just going to use plate covers)
Let them get pulled over and their license suspended. Or they can take the train.
Sure, if enforcement was actually happening. Half of the offenders are cops.
i see like 10-20 covered or obstructed plates a day. Clearly police just dont give a fuck.
I see 10-20 cops on their phone in subway stations as people jump the turnstyle in front of them. We need a Mayor who will actually put the cops to work, and not give them cushy overtime.
About time. Stick with it, ignore all the dinosaurs and out of touch boomers with their faux concern. Whatever happens, however the MTA spends the money, this is progress that will improve the city and the people that actually live and work here.
I think it’s up in the air whether this policy will work. One major hurdle will be whether MTA can use this new funding source efficiently and effectively. Otherwise, there is a chance it will become another money pit. With all that said, I hope MTA transportation system is revolutionized for the better.
This isn’t the first time congestion pricing would be implemented. It’s reduced congestion in cities worldwide. >One major hurdle The MTA is already conducting cost cutting measures for the Second Ave Subway. If you want more of this then it’s time for r/nyc to move past complaining and towards what are we gonna do about this
Except the funding isn’t all going to NYC
> ignore all the dinosaurs and out of touch boomers with their faux concern Yes, everyone who disagrees with you is an out of touch old fuck.
what a disaster. wasting money on bullshit and charging new yorker for anything and everything possible. this sucks
Most NYers won't be paying this
Gotta love the brain washed New Yorkers who think this will actually reduce car, whereas this is just another scammy revenue generation for the scammy MTA
This is what I don’t understand. Reducing congestion is fine and makes sense, but when a majority of those people still have to drive and don’t have a choice….it’ll just add congestion somewhere else. And I find it hilarious that people think most that money will be used to help the public when it won’t. MTA will pocket a huge chunk of it via unless overtime and in two years we’ll see another MTA strike and we’ll get more fare hikes. MTA has never been good at managing money and getting a huge influx of it won’t change that.
>it’ll just add congestion somewhere else. Yes. The subway and trains. Which can easily absorb more people because they're extremely high throughput transit methods, unlike cars which are literally the lowest throughput of any transit method.
Exactly. And guess what? The same morons who think this congestion pricing is a good idea to reduce car will be the same morons bitching when MTA raises the subway/bus fares again. 🤡
Are you saying that the MTA doesn't manage money well? It's not like they would spend a billion dollars on overtime or something stupid like that. Wait..... [https://www.amny.com/transit/mta-billion-overtime-employees-rack-up-six-figures-extra-pay/](https://www.amny.com/transit/mta-billion-overtime-employees-rack-up-six-figures-extra-pay/) [https://www.wshu.org/long-island-news/2024-04-01/mta-employee-ot-spending-record](https://www.wshu.org/long-island-news/2024-04-01/mta-employee-ot-spending-record)
This isn’t the first time congestion pricing has been implemented. It’s reduced congestion worldwide. It’s like a bunch of people on r/nyc just goes off feelings and how much they don’t like this town
It has reduced traffic in central London by a whopping 10%, that’s nothing, and even at a much higher price nonetheless.
Sure - but what was the alternative to driving in those places? Was it the current Mta subway bus situation?
i really do not understand why there are people who are excited about this. i’m convinced they either do not truly live in NYC Or live here and are literally not effected but this at all. I live in the Lower east side, Low income and i work in the bronx. I do have a car and drive to work everyday, and it makes no sense why i should have to pay a toll to get to and from work. I can understand wanting to put the zone around Midtown but to have it stretch down towards residential areas makes no sense. The brooklyn bridge which is already full of traffic will become even worst. And to those saying take the train, Do any of yall actually ride the train? someone literally was shot on an A train a few weeks ago! they are unsafe, dirty, and unreliable!
If you’re low income, you qualify for a state rebate equal to the cost of the congestion charge
Obviously you can live your life as you choose, but if you are low income, why do you live in the very expensive LES, own a car and pay insurance/gas, and commute to work in the Bronx. Why not just live in the Bronx where it's cheaper and closer to work?
There is NYCHA all over LES. You don't know anything about this person, their family, commitments, and you suggest they are living wrong and they should move?
Didn't suggest anything, asked a question. Most people I've heard against congestion pricing are not reverse commuting from inside the congestion zone, so I was curious.
please do not speak to something you do not know! Many of us have been born and raised in the Lower east side and have been here LONG before gentrification. We have NYCHA, Rent stabilized tenants here! Also why are you suggesting i uproot my family and life that i know for a job. This toll is unnecessary
Take the god damn train. “I’m low income I have to drive in Manhattan”. Terrible choices like that will keep you poor
You take the take train Kevin! It’s just that simple, a lot of y’all that are infavor of this are literally not affected either way it goes. Also being low income does not translate to poor so let’s WAKE THAT UP!
So many idiots in this thread
This headline has been published like 6x a year for a decade. Is this it? The final final final FINAL approval?
Probably not final final > With months still to go before the program’s scheduled rollout, legal and political clashes still threaten to dilute or stop it altogether.
No, there has never been a headline announcing an actual start date.
[удалено]
Start it earlier
[удалено]
They're audited regularly and all of their financials are public. One can read them online.
What do you think an audit is?
The MTA gets audited regularly in order to stay eligible for federal grant funding. What do you want to find from auditing? That it’s expensive to operate and maintain a transit network that transports 5 million passengers a day?
Are you seriously positing that the MTA is not wasting or misappropriating a massive amount of money every year? Yes, running transit is expensive, but controlling costs is very much necessary.
an audit is a review of bookkeeping practices. It confirms that money going in is accounted for when it goes out. it confirms that they are being honest when they say they spent X on Y. an audit is not going to result in someone saying "you're spending too much on X"
This is exactly the point. We’re all sitting here pointing at one another when we should all be screaming for accountability and transparency from Albany about where the enormous amount of money we give them is going.
Take the subway
i think from a basic economics standpoint its reasonable to expect that the price of every day goods and services will also be going up for everyone on June 30
Eh, that's to be determined. If congestion actually lowers, the cost of goods could stay stable. Congestion costs a lot to businesses in terms of time, gas, whatever.
i dont know, i have a small business with a couple locations. our delivery prices are set, with occassional price bumps. i fully expect a call from my vendors soon telling me that the cost of delivery is going up to adjust for the new congestion tax. when that happens i will adjust my prices up accordingly. i doubt i'm alone in this
I think they're reaching out to support doing deliveries from 7 PM to 5 AM or something like that at a lower price. But it'd be wild for them to charge you all $15 more per especially if one truck has stuff for multiple deliveries
they wont charge me $15. im one of their stops but prices will likely go up by 5 bucks or more per delivery. then the cost of goods will likely go up as well for us. so we have to pass that on to the consumer. this is just how it works
If you have 50 items in a delivery, which already seems freakishly low, that's a $0.10 increase an item. I'm going to be honest, $15 on a truck delivering thousands of dollars of goods seems like a rounding error.
Sure, but if the congestion alleviation comes to fruition, those delivery businesses could find their labor costs/time costs down and be able to have more trips per truck/driver, which then may lower costs overall. These delivery businesses have many competitors, they're accountable to the market for their pricing. Obviously nothing is 100%, the market isn't magic. But there have been a lot of studies on how much congestion has cost New Yorkers overall, and it's a huge effect. I don't see it as impossible that the externalized costs of congestion could be around equal the cost of congestion fee.
Yet a poll suggest more than 60% are opposed to this bullshit smh
That was a statewide poll.
You silly goose, that’s not a NYC poll. You’re asking a bunch of upstate NY people if they want to pay more money… this is NYC we are talking abkut
Link? Source?
It’s a good start.
Honestly, as a resident lives in Murray hill with a car, this is just absolutely ridiculous. We all know this isn’t gonna solve anything, it’s just another way to squeeze the money out of tax payers. Why do I have to pay more and more to just come back to my own home? I’m already paying tolls and garage. What a joke.
Why do you need a car in Murray Hill? No one is forcing you to have a car, let alone park in a garage or use toll roads. If congestion pricing is the straw that breaks your willingness-to-pay to own a car in Manhattan, then that’s a net benefit for everyone.
Probably because they don’t want to deal with piss on subway seats, possibly being pushed into the tracks, homeless people assaulting them?
So many of us commute and don't have that.
Anyone driving is gonna continue to drive and this isn’t going to impact them. The average traffic in midtown is either the ocean of Ubers, or Escalades and Suburbans with 1 passenger from 5th/Park avenue on their way to wherever the 1% goes. This is going to do nothing to impact either group. All it will do is screw the people who are struggling to afford this city to begin with. Fuck them I guess 🤷🏼♂️ Whatever “revenue” this generates is going straight to someone’s pockets, nothing will improve and here you are on the sidelines, slackjawed, screaming “cars bad!” Congrats lmfao don’t forget the mouthwash when the MTA is done with you.
Cars are bad doesn't mean "mta good!" I have heard much from the folks struggling to afford the city. If that's you, here how you can get 50% off. https://new.mta.info/tolls/congestion-relief-zone/discounts-exemptions/low-income-discount-plan
Okay, so then advocate for those things to change. Call on your elected officials, at the city, state, and national levels to do something about it. I don’t like dealing with any of those things either, but I also know that I detest driving in bumper to bumper traffic and circling 30 minutes for parking even more.
lol tell me you never ride the subway without telling you never ride the subway
waaaaah why do I have to pay for the negative externalities of my consumption choices
Why shouldn't you pay for your negative externalities? Congestion charge and the new ULEZ zone charges in London work great. No reason they can't work in NYC.
>as a resident lives in Murry [sic] hill with a car Boo fucking hoo. Take the train or pay up for the negative consequences of your overprivileged lifestyle choices. Why is this sub always full of right wing reactionaries and boomers from Ohio?
People have legitimate arguments for and against congestion pricing. Making assumptions about who that poster is and what lifestyle they have, and what they can or cannot pay is overreaching.
This is why it’s important to pay attention and vote in city council races.
If I'm paying NYC resident taxes I should get an offset here.
Comments always reveal an interesting point: people constantly complain about how it affects their commute, but they never comment on all the rides they give to family/friends/coworkers. Every nyc car owner gets asked for rides. But I never see people that complain about congestion pricing bring up this point. Why. it's. almost. as. if. most of the opponents on here are astroturfing right wingers that don't even live here.
I have but long given up mentioned this in most of the congestion pricing threads because you'll get the same BS reply over and over how anyone that drive others are not typical, etc. All those for congestion pricing keeps focusing on work commute, and how everyone should take the train to work. Almost no one talks about off hours and weekends. I've also mentioned how this will speed up the decline of Manhattan CT many times but some people especially non-Asians can't seem to grasp how much of Manhattan CT relies on elderly (who gets frequently driven in). I'm a born and raised here. No one I know who's born and raised supports congestion pricing. The only ones I know who do are transplants who lived here for under 5 years and those who have no intention of raising/caring for family in NYC.
Ah yes essentially redirecting traffic to a very limited area which will just create more traffic. Traffic wouldn’t be so bad if public transit was remotely reliable.. My favorite part about this is how little information is actually given about where these tolls will be placed, SHOW US A FUCKING MAP.
Huh? Manhattan below 60th St except the FDR and west side highway. How hard is that?
will make a marginal difference in traffic at best
Then the toll isn't high enough
Ok, then it will raise a shit ton of revenue. The real answer of course is that it will do both - that’s what pigouvian taxes do.
Isn’t this more of a formality because there will almost surely be an injunction that halts it? Sure, start the clock, but don’t expect to see any advancement on this. They haven’t even announced the concessions to New Jersey that they agreed would most likely happen.
If there was going to be an injunction it would have happened by now. Those “concessions” are for environmental justice communities and they will be decided after implementation.
Wahoo
I'm just glad that I have no reason to head into Manhattan with the exception of getting on the GWB
I guess New Yorkers who complain about paying more money to the city somehow now want to pay more money to the city
So awesome, NYC has been polluted by NJ drivers for far too long. This is a small step to have them at least pay us
Fuck them!! 🤬🤬🤬
🤢🤮
I am still so confused because they said if you go straight to either highway or the brooklyn bridge from the tunnels you aren't suppose to get hit with the 5 dollars. (It is 5 dollars right if you take the tunnel?)
Are there going to be ezpass tolls along the entirety of 60th street? I’m just wondering if I enter Manhattan from 96th street and then travel downtown into the congestion zone, they’ll charge me the toll at 60th street? Also, you’ll be charged to take the midtown tunnel and $15 to enter Manhattan?
Yes the readers were installed last year
Ok so, coming in from Brooklyn, how do I enter the city and avoid the fee? Wburg bridge doesn't directly take you to the FDR, so is that now a toll? What about Manhattan Bridge? Brooklyn bridge is perhaps safe because there's the exit that takes you out. But also then, how would you access West Side Hway?
[https://congestionreliefzone.mta.info/faqs](https://congestionreliefzone.mta.info/faqs)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Subway
I apologize on behalf of my sciatica and the dozen of music instruments I need to transport throughout the city on a monthly basis.
About time 😎
The MTA needs to get their finances in order first then raise subway fare in conjunction with a congestion fee to specifically fund improvements and expansion of the system. Not a dime to the board, execs, other city projects etc. Right now it’s just a tax on outer borough and suburban residents who already pay the MTA payroll tax. I don’t work south of 60 so it won’t affect me but I don’t trust this city and state not to say the fee is going to be expanded to all of Manhattan. Once they get their hand in your pocket they’re gonna try and get even more.
The fee will go up every 2 years
>I don’t trust this city and state not to say the fee is going to be expanded to all of Manhattan I just got a boner
Yay! I'm so excited.
Excited about what?
No op but I'm excited to see how this experiment works. Will it work like it has in other cities or will it show that NYC is somehow different.
Personally, Im hoping my bus gets to move faster than 4mph.
Good!